Log for #openttd on 5th December 2010:
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00:13:44  <avdg> hmmm, I'm seeing <invalid industry> in the industry list, anyone who knows more? (yes, I'm going to report it, but I want to investigate it a bit first)
00:15:00  <SmatZ> avdg: did you modify the GRF config?
00:15:07  <avdg> no grf
00:15:23  <avdg> it seems to happen with town related industries
00:15:30  <SmatZ> avdg: can it be caused by r21389?
00:15:39  <avdg> yes, thats what I'm looking at
00:16:07  <SmatZ> hmm it seems it is related only to "fund new industry" window
00:16:10  <SmatZ> but who knows... :)
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00:17:43  <supermop> hello
00:18:30  <avdg> hi
00:19:59  <supermop> how is every one?
00:20:00  <avdg> hmm, new game and no msg's of <invalid industry>
00:21:48  <supermop> well that sounds good
00:22:33  <avdg> nah, the problem is that it was happening in the same revision
00:22:50  <avdg> r21389
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00:28:44  <avdg> bleh, seems hard to reproduce
00:29:17  <SmatZ> I can't reproduce it
00:29:37  <avdg> all I know was that I cheated to the last year
00:33:12  <avdg> so it looks like its not related so far
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00:41:11  <avdg> hmm, maybe also because climate change if I was really stopid
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00:41:59  <avdg> yep
00:42:21  <avdg> reproduced
00:43:04  <avdg> other climate :(
00:44:30  <avdg> any rules defined about the behavior of industries in other climates?
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01:01:39  <Eddi|zuHause> other than "they are different"?
01:02:29  <avdg> bweh, doesn't matter, I don't know the idea of climate changes
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01:31:39  <juliano> Hello. I'm hacking into OpenTTD, and I'm confused with the UnInitWindowSystem() function... any seasoned developer could explaint the logic?
01:33:53  <juliano> To me, it looks terribly wrong to iterate over the list while destroying it... twice.
01:36:44  <Yexo> delete w; doesn't actually free the memory, it just calls the window destructor
01:37:26  <Yexo> the second loop actually frees the memory, and does so correctly
01:38:20  <Yexo> see also window_gui.h:245 (the empty operator delete of the window class)
01:38:20  <juliano> how delete w; doesn't free the memory?
01:38:40  <juliano> ouch
01:41:37  <juliano> if that is true, then it doesn't explain why I'm getting double-free corruption glib crashes on the free(to_del) line
01:43:15  <SmatZ> delete != free
01:43:35  <SmatZ> if you allocated the object using "new", use "delete"
01:43:46  <SmatZ> if you allocated it using malloc(), use free()
01:43:58  <juliano> SmatZ: of course
01:44:39  <SmatZ> ok :)
01:46:37  <juliano> the redefinition of delete to a no-op, then use free() looks very strange to me
01:47:49  <SmatZ> it was needed because sometimes windows would be deleted twice
01:47:59  <SmatZ> first when the child window is deleted
01:48:08  <SmatZ> second when the parent tries to free its child window
01:48:15  <SmatZ> I think that was the issue :)
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01:50:27  <juliano> I just started hacking today, so I can't say for sure, but from your description it seems that this could have been fixed another way that wouldn't involve changing the semantics of "delete".
01:50:43  <juliano> Usually, when we have circular references, we break the references before propagating
01:51:25  <SmatZ> perhaps this was far easier solution
01:52:25  <glx> it was easier to do that than modify every windows
01:54:35  <__ln__> eww
01:55:08  <__ln__> i'll go to bed and pretend this was a bad dream
01:55:40  <SmatZ> good night __ln__
01:55:52  <__ln__> gn SmatZ
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04:43:26  <supermop> hello
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07:04:43  <planetmaker> g'morning
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07:57:17  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
08:02:23  * Alberth would like a 'closed, duplicate of thread X' button at the forums
08:02:56  <planetmaker> :-D
08:03:20  * planetmaker duplicates Alberth
08:03:22  <planetmaker> moin
08:03:47  <Alberth> oh noes, two Alberths!
08:03:58  <Alberth> moin :)
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08:05:22  * Alberth self.merge(self)
08:06:47  <planetmaker> :-D
08:07:10  <planetmaker> Though it sometimes would be nice to run dual-threaded ;-)
08:08:16  <avdg> while(isset(self)) {self.merge(self);} // hmm, I'm wondered what this does
08:08:45  * avdg thinks at hitting hisself unlimited times
08:26:06  * planetmaker hands another coffee at Alberth
08:26:48  <Alberth> cheers
08:26:55  <planetmaker> enjoy the new toyland planes than being annoyed because of stupid users :-)
08:27:09  <planetmaker> they at least smile back ;-)
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08:27:53  <Alberth> avdg: testing for a particular kind of data-type is a no-no with python :)
08:28:26  <avdg> nah, its just a passion to do stopid things on myself
08:28:51  <Alberth> planetmaker: yeah, I should not write posts like that
08:29:07  <planetmaker> no worries, they're perfectly justified
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08:29:17  * avdg being stopid again
08:30:02  <planetmaker> sometimes it's just necessary to tell "search" and "don't bump". Especially in such obvious cases
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08:47:28  <Alberth> good morning andy
08:48:41  <robotboy> hello
08:49:35  <Alberth> andythenorth: In the "Order of industry types at map gen" thread, you claimed that a probilistic approach is already possible. Could you elaborate on that?
08:49:40  <Alberth> robotboy: hello
08:50:42  <Alberth> andythenorth: afaik, the newgrf can only say yes/no, rather than pick a site that it prefers
08:50:49  <andythenorth> Alberth: in terms of what supermop was describing....
08:51:06  <andythenorth> newgrf can't specify location no
08:51:12  <andythenorth> but it can check for other industries
08:51:19  <Rubidium> evening robotboy, morning Alberth, andythenorth, et al.
08:51:23  <andythenorth> and it can branch varaction 2 on a random factor
08:51:32  <planetmaker> moin Rubidium
08:51:40  <Alberth> morning Rubidium
08:51:42  <andythenorth> so it's quite easy to say 60% chance of building type A near type B, or at new site
08:51:51  <andythenorth> FIRS does it for most primary industries already
08:51:59  <andythenorth> except that it's type A near type A ;)
08:52:34  <andythenorth> and actually it's not quite as I described above
08:52:49  <Alberth> so what it does is check for type A whether there is a B nearby, and if so, you have a 60% chance of 'yes', else 40%?
08:54:23  <andythenorth> it could
08:54:27  <andythenorth> my code doesn't actually do that
08:54:30  <andythenorth> but it would be possible
08:55:10  <andythenorth> my code counts number of existing industry instead, and starts a new cluster if count <n, otherwise build near existing
08:55:37  <andythenorth> I'll do similar for fishing grounds to make sure they aren't too far from harbours
08:56:22  * andythenorth ponders Hyronymus
08:56:35  <andythenorth> and some FIRS instruction improvements
08:56:43  <Alberth> so you are basically making n clusters
08:56:45  <andythenorth> yes
08:57:12  <Alberth> scaled on mapsize? (/me hopes so)
08:57:15  <andythenorth> yes
08:57:20  <Alberth> ohh, nice
08:57:22  <andythenorth> according to someone else's maths though :P
08:57:26  <andythenorth> not mine :D
08:57:34  * andythenorth hmmms
08:57:50  <andythenorth> I thought it would be too obviously a bad pattern to *close* an industry if no supplies were delivered that month
08:57:53  <andythenorth> maybe not
08:58:10  <Alberth> :)
08:59:20  <Alberth> perhaps it is a phase in experiencing the game :)
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08:59:38  <andythenorth> maybe
08:59:42  * andythenorth afk
08:59:50  <Alberth> I used to level everything for tracks, nowadays I rather build without much terra forming :)
09:04:17  <planetmaker> ^ seems to be the usual progression in building style ;-)
09:12:06  <robotboy> not for me
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09:20:24  <Alberth> my brother has a different solution, he always plays tropical climate, where you have these nice flat deserts :)
09:26:07  <planetmaker> :-)
09:26:31  * planetmaker usually generates mountainous maps with a significant amount of water
09:26:40  <planetmaker> Most often probably arctic
09:29:29  * andythenorth wonders how landscape generator is coming on :D
09:29:42  <andythenorth> bugging him probably won't help though :)
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09:53:53  <Terkhen> good morning
09:54:05  <peter1138> andythenorth, mining
09:54:08  <peter1138> sorr
09:54:09  <peter1138> y
09:54:13  <andythenorth> harr
09:54:21  <andythenorth> mine some noise :D
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10:07:24  <andythenorth> "Why not make delivering supplies the only way to increase production and make servicing an industry the only way to keep them from closing?"
10:07:31  <peter1138> not sure it needs multiple perlin maps. hmm.
10:07:36  <andythenorth> ^^ is that a good or bad idea?
10:07:40  <andythenorth> I'm not sure
10:07:51  <andythenorth> my FIRS objectivity is reduced by two years of staring at code :)
10:08:12  <andythenorth> peter1138: when I read tgp.cpp I wasn't sure why it needed multiple maps
10:08:28  <andythenorth> one good map of multiple passes should do it, I thought?
10:10:23  <Alberth> that policy gives the user mostly complete control over the industry life time
10:11:12  <peter1138> hurr ...
10:15:00  <andythenorth> hoo
10:20:41  <ccfreak2k> andythenorth, seems good to me if you're going for realism.
10:20:57  <ccfreak2k> An intermediate industry can't provide product if the constituent supplies aren't available.
10:21:08  <ccfreak2k> No product = no income.
10:22:42  <Alberth> except that the game also says somewhat that you are not the only transporter of an industry.
10:23:36  <b_jonas> Alberth: yes, which is why the oil refinery and power station keeps emitting smoke and sparks even if you don't transfer to it
10:23:55  <b_jonas> or is it the steel mill that makes sparks?
10:24:23  <Alberth> steel mill has nice yellow-ish rivers :)
10:25:12  <ccfreak2k> Oil refinery has sparks? Uh oh...
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10:35:06  <planetmaker> hu?
10:39:52  * Alberth ponders how halftiles are different from tiles with 3 raised points
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10:40:55  <Alberth> (or tiles with 1 raised point perhaps?)
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10:44:09  <Rubidium> 3 raised points: building rail on the lower bit: foundation at raised level
10:44:45  <Rubidium> 1 raised point: building rail on lower bit: no foundation, so height of middle is height of lower bit
10:45:12  <Rubidium> halftile: like 1 raised point for building rail on lower bit, but like 3 raised points for height at the center
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10:49:04  <Alberth> ah, it starts to make sense. Thanks.
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10:55:02  <Alberth> moin fjb
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11:07:51  <fjb> Moin
11:07:57  <fjb> Moin Alberth
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11:27:42  <kevin_> hello
11:28:19  <Alberth> hello
11:28:37  <kevin_> is there an easy way to update my linux server version from 1.0.4 to 1.0.5?
11:28:47  <kevin_> I mean my openttd version ON the server :p
11:29:01  <valhallasw> the same way you installed it...?
11:29:15  <kevin_> nah, I installed it by using yast's packet manager
11:29:36  <Ammler> zypper up
11:29:51  <Ammler> or per yast
11:30:29  <kevin_> let me check if there's an update now... I installed it only a few days ago
11:30:50  <kevin_> nope, when I search in yast, it only offers me version 1.0.4
11:31:16  <Ammler> hmm, bad :-(
11:31:55  <kevin_> I copied the linux files to the server, now I only need to get them working :-/
11:32:11  <kevin_> openttd-1.0.5-linux-generic-amd64
11:32:25  <Ammler> you have X installed on your server?
11:32:48  <kevin_> yeah, but I doubt it'll run well over x11 :(
11:33:03  <kevin_> I don't have physical access to the server at the moment
11:33:17  <Ammler> which version?
11:33:29  <Ammler> suse 11.3?
11:33:40  <kevin_> ehm... good question
11:34:02  <kevin_> opensuse 11.2
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11:34:48  <Ammler> <-- you could use this repo
11:35:37  <kevin_> aha, let me add that one
11:36:35  <Ammler> it has also a openttd-dedicated rpm
11:37:04  <Ammler> but you have already installed the X-libs, so that doesn't matter anymore :-)
11:38:00  <kevin_> I think it's uninstalling 0.4 and installing 0.5 dedicated
11:38:27  <kevin_> yep!
11:38:35  <kevin_> server is running 1.0.5 now :)
11:38:44  <kevin_> thanks
11:39:46  <andythenorth> hmm
11:39:58  <andythenorth> no supplies, good service = no production decrease
11:40:06  <andythenorth> no supplies, bad service = production decrease
11:40:19  <andythenorth> supplies, good service = chance of production increase
11:40:38  <andythenorth> supplies, bad service = no production increase?
11:40:47  <Ammler> yes :-)
11:40:57  * andythenorth tries to work out how two factors combine to control production
11:41:07  <andythenorth> and how to explain that to players in about seven words
11:41:21  <Ammler> you did with 4 lines :-)
11:41:42  <Alberth> just remove the '?' :)
11:41:47  <Ammler> hehe
11:42:35  <andythenorth> makes FIRS *more* complicated than original mechanic
11:42:42  <andythenorth> as it now depends on having good scores for two factors
11:43:04  <Alberth> I can imagine
11:43:05  <Ammler> and that is bad?
11:43:36  <Alberth> more complexity is always bad :)
11:44:09  * robotboy ponders setting up a virtual linux machine up to compile dos OpenTTD
11:44:12  <Ammler> for the coder or the player?
11:44:34  <andythenorth> both
11:44:41  <andythenorth> in this case, for the player
11:44:44  <andythenorth> although...
11:44:56  <andythenorth> if you're playing with closures on, you're probably a certain kind of player anyway
11:45:31  <b_jonas> closures are _good_! they eliminate industries from the map that wouldn't produce enough to be worthwile to transport anyway.
11:45:33  <Alberth> the player gets better control with this change, making it more predictable, so for the player it simplifies imho
11:45:43  <Ammler> hmm, for the player, it is illogical, if you incrase production with bad service, imo
11:46:29  <Ammler> so it might be more complex, but easier
11:49:45  <andythenorth> in what ways is it more controlled?  I am open to the idea...
11:50:09  <Alberth> if I want to keep the industry -> service it
11:50:19  <Ammler> or supply
11:50:24  <Alberth> if I want more production -> give it supplies
11:50:42  <Ammler> and supply
11:50:42  <andythenorth> ok so you have two options to preserve the industry
11:50:46  <andythenorth> that makes sense
11:50:48  <Ammler> service*
11:51:09  <Alberth> current industries don't have that level of control
11:51:30  <Alberth> (default industries, that is, don't know about FIRS + closure)
11:52:14  <andythenorth> it's probably not very hard to allow default production change to run if no supplies present
11:52:24  <andythenorth> I think I did this in early versions of FIRS
11:52:48  <andythenorth> I removed it because the production decreases are quite aggressive
11:53:02  <andythenorth> leading to lots of early closure
11:56:57  <Zuu> but now we do have this chain protection industry creation, so maybe it is not as critical anymore?
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12:01:16  <andythenorth> maybe indeed
12:02:38  <andythenorth> what about players who are sad when they build a rail route to an industry that closes immediately :P
12:02:41  <andythenorth> ?
12:05:58  * andythenorth plays with no production decrease, it's better :D
12:06:41  <Terkhen> andythenorth: keep adding settings until everyone is happy
12:07:40  <andythenorth> always a winner :P
12:07:47  <andythenorth> just like landscape generation :P
12:07:56  <andythenorth> and the many industry settings
12:08:53  <Terkhen> :D
12:09:52  <Ammler> [13:02] <andythenorth> what about players who are sad when they build a rail route to an industry that closes immediately  <-- I would then build it manually
12:10:43  <Ammler> you need to do that quite often with PBI
12:10:58  <Ammler> where also serviced industries close
12:12:05  <Terkhen> :O
12:12:15  <Terkhen> why?
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12:13:16  <Ammler> andythenorth: you do not have many newgrfs installed ;-)
12:13:27  <Ammler> Terkhen: pbi is quite buggy
12:13:42  <Terkhen> oh, I see
12:13:43  * andythenorth afk
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12:14:38  <Ammler> how to write afk?
12:15:32  <Ammler> specially the engineer yard closes quite often
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12:36:26  <etarasov> how to break road in city if local authority refuses to allow it?
12:38:11  <Terkhen> etarasov: enable the "Allow removal of more town owned property" advanced setting, it's at construction
12:39:49  <etarasov> Terkhen: thanks a lot, it's very usefull setting
12:39:54  <Terkhen> you are welcome
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13:04:10  <tobylane> did anyone ask permission from the original ttd creators? some say you needed it to change the graphics but it sounds silly
13:05:14  <Rubidium> asking permission to them is uhm... complex
13:05:35  <tobylane> i agree, i said not asking is the best way round legal issues
13:05:37  <Rubidium> they original creators don't own the copyright, as such they can't give you the permission
13:06:07  <tobylane> huh
13:06:08  <Rubidium> and then the entity we think owns the copyright doesn't bother to check whether that is the case
13:06:25  <tobylane> so its alright to rip abandonware
13:08:56  <tobylane> is this one of the most successful/biggest/furthest along clones?
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13:11:20  <Terkhen> heh
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13:12:06  <r0b0tb0y> wtf
13:12:22  <r0b0tb0y> to tobylane
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13:39:09  <Forge> s/b en
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13:50:23  <Ammler> suse uses now my specs on the official games repo :-)
13:50:33  <Ammler> everything builds from source now
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14:23:11  <planetmaker> nice :-)
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14:32:36  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21390 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt network/network_gui.cpp): -Codechange: prepare the network join progress bar for getting the file size later in the download process, i.e. when a chunk of the savegame is already received by the client
14:33:35  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21391 /trunk/src/lang/ (49 files in 2 dirs): -Update (r21390): the string names in the translations
14:34:33  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21392 /trunk/src/network/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Change: prepare the network protocol for getting the file size later in the download process
14:36:07  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21393 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Codechange: support resetting of the "base" filters, i.e. reset their read location to be begin of the file. This is needed for trying to load savegames as a "buggy format"
14:38:08  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21394 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Codechange: split the actual savegame loading from SaveOrLoad as well
14:38:55  <roboboy> gnight
14:39:19  <SmatZ> nn roboboy
14:41:46  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21395 /trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move the save and load filter's interface to a header
14:43:22  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21396 /trunk/src/ (network/network_client.cpp openttd.cpp video/dedicated_v.cpp): -Codechange: rename SafeSaveOrLoad to SaveLoad (it only did load), and add support for (safe) loading with a LoadFilter
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14:44:43  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21397 /trunk/src/network/ (network_client.cpp network_client.h): -Change/Feature-ish: when getting a savegame from the server, just keep it in memory instead of writing it to a file
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14:45:06  <Eddi|zuHause> he's on a spree!
14:46:04  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21398 /trunk/src/network/ (network_server.cpp network_server.h): -Change/Feature-ish: when making a savegame to send to a client, don't write it to disk but create the packets immediately
14:48:53  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21399 /trunk/src/network/ (core/tcp.h network_server.cpp network_server.h):
14:48:53  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: -Change/Feature/Fix [FS#4284]: perform the compression of savegames to send to
14:48:53  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: the client asynchroniously. This will reduce the lag of the other clients to the
14:48:53  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: time it takes to make the memory dump and it will speed up downloading the map
14:48:53  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: as the download starts earlier (possibly with a slightly lower bandwidth due to
14:48:54  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: slow compression). This should also fix the lag message people get when the
14:48:56  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: savegame compression takes more than a few seconds.
14:49:59  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21400 /trunk/src/network/network_client.cpp: -Fix [FS#4284]: when loading a savegame takes more than 2 seconds locally, don't see that as lag of the server. Also increase the client side's lag thresholds a bit
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15:08:55  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21401 /trunk/src/network/ (network_client.cpp network_server.cpp): -Fix: ofcourse MSVC x64 has something to complain about...
15:10:13  <asnoehu> the game of the meleniom
15:10:16  <asnoehu> of zo eites
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16:10:20  <andythenorth> oh :(
16:10:46  <andythenorth> hyronymus has confused secondary and primary industry I think
16:10:47  <andythenorth>
16:11:03  <andythenorth> it's very hard trying to work out a feature request with someone who hasn't actually played FIRS :|
16:11:10  <andythenorth> could someone help out in the thread?
16:11:40  <andythenorth> otherwise it will become one of those silly internet arguments :P
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16:19:08  <Terkhen> hmm... do you know of any articulated vehicle example for trains?
16:20:11  <Terkhen> it must also be refittable
16:25:12  <SmatZ> CSD set has some
16:25:32  <SmatZ> M 262.o 830 Dunihlav
16:27:44  <Terkhen> hmm... it seems that the second part cannot carry cargo, but I should be able to debug if the second part is being checked anyways
16:28:54  <frosch123> Terkhen: firs + japanese
16:30:18  <b_jonas> japanese is refittable even without firs
16:30:39  <Zuu> hmm chinese spam(?)
16:33:18  <Terkhen> hmm... my solution does not work
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16:35:13  <andythenorth> Terkhen: what's your solution?
16:36:07  <Terkhen> andythenorth: when you select a part to refit, if the first vehicle of the selection is an articulated vehicle, it adds the whole articulated vehicle to the selection, the same if the last vehicle selected is also part of an articulated vehicle
16:40:40  <andythenorth> does it add each of the parts explicitly?
16:40:47  <andythenorth> or just the lead part?
16:41:09  <andythenorth> Terkhen: ^
16:41:30  <Terkhen> in theory all of them, in practice nothing
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16:48:16  <andythenorth> how odd
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16:49:29  <Terkhen> my guess is some stupid errors in my code :)
16:49:36  <Terkhen> I already found one
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16:58:22  <Terkhen> now it's working :)
16:58:53  <andythenorth> awesom
16:58:54  <andythenorth> e
16:59:31  * andythenorth tries to explain again
16:59:31  <andythenorth>
16:59:41  <andythenorth> 'simple' was never a design goal for FIRS
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17:03:35  <Terkhen> heh, I remember another case of "steel" as town growth cargo
17:05:27  <Alberth> ECS ?
17:06:45  <b_jonas> did they even accept steel?
17:06:55  <b_jonas> or would you have to transmit it to a factory near the town?
17:07:34  <Alberth> no, he messed up the cargoes in some way
17:07:41  <Terkhen> not ECS, at least not beta6
17:07:55  <Terkhen> IIRC it was someone who changed NewGRFs ingame
17:08:05  <b_jonas> oh
17:20:24  <George> Terkhen: FS#3341?
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17:23:01  <Terkhen> it might be
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17:27:54  <LordAro> evenin'4
17:28:10  * LordAro hates silly laptop keyboards
17:28:32  <Alberth> smash it!
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17:28:45  <LordAro> :D
17:28:54  <Terkhen> fire will work too
17:29:01  <LordAro> i think my dad would kill me...:)
17:29:28  <SmatZ> nah
17:30:03  <LordAro> well, certainly never trust me for the rest of my life :D
17:30:06  <Terkhen> I think that you are not getting this "smash your problems" philosophy
17:30:38  <Terkhen> although it is probably better to not use it :P
17:30:39  <LordAro> oh i get the theory, i'm just too practical ;)
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17:31:04  * Terkhen will probably end up using it against his patch anyways
17:31:21  <frosch123> Terkhen: the commands like (CmdMoveRailVehicle) use stuff like GetFirstEnginePart() and GetLastEnginePart()
17:31:59  <Terkhen> yes, I was using GetFirstEnginePart, but I forgot to increase the counter I was using to iterate... a stupid mistake :P
17:32:09  <frosch123> :)
17:32:15  <Terkhen> the good thing is that selection while keeping things consistent already works
17:32:34  <Terkhen> the problem is that now I had to update the GUI part of the selection code :)
17:32:40  <Terkhen> s/had/have/
17:33:13  <LordAro> that vaguely reminds me: why hasn't anyone implemented overtaking articulated vehicles?
17:33:28  <Alberth> we left that especially for you!
17:33:38  <frosch123> yup
17:34:20  <LordAro> i've looked into it (removing the bit of code that stops articulated vehicles overtaking is simple enough) but then only the front part of the vehicle moves, not the rest (just goes through the other vehicle)
17:34:30  <Terkhen> yeah, after checking the code and getting a big headache I thought "just let force the first person to ask about this to code it"
17:34:38  <Rubidium> LordAro: one of: "can't be bothered" and "can't code"
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17:36:01  <LordAro> i also had trouble reading the code, can any of you _lovely_(!?) devs point me to the place that actually tells the vehicle to switch sides of the road
17:36:32  <Rubidium> roadveh_cmd.cpp? :)
17:36:47  <LordAro> which line... ;)
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17:37:38  * LordAro feels privileged, talking to 5 devs, on his own!
17:37:42  <LordAro> :D
17:37:59  <Terkhen> LordAro: given how complicated is that part of the code, answering that question would require to read the overtake code first and to understand it
17:38:04  <Rubidium> roadveh_cmd.c:1183
17:38:10  <Alberth> well, you seem to know more about vehicle overtaking than I do :p
17:41:01  <ccfreak2k> My specialty is in...vehicle takingover!
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17:51:53  <LordAro> hmm...roadveh_cmd.cpp is terribly messy - #includes and structs all over the place :)
17:55:51  <Terkhen> LordAro: that does not sound very messy to me
17:56:32  <Rubidium> you're complaining about *ONE* include that isn't at the top of the file?
17:56:53  <LordAro> just mentioning it in passing... ;)
17:58:18  <Rubidium> <- *that* is a mess
18:00:41  <LordAro> i can understand that, which is why it is no longer like that (i presume, can't be bothered to check :D)
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18:01:56  <Rubidium> so something logically ordered, but ununderstandable for you is messy and something randomly ordered, but understandable isn't messy?
18:03:58  <frosch123> demonstrative pronoun suck :)
18:04:03  <LordAro> i only mentioned it because i saw that r21380 moved one ;)
18:06:36  <frosch123> hmm, why are there actually vardefs in
18:07:00  <Rubidium> frosch123: because they were not removed yet
18:07:08  <frosch123> doesn't c have tentative declarations
18:08:20  <Rubidium> frosch123: multiple objects -> multiply defined symbols
18:09:01  <frosch123> well, but iirc if you just define everything as "external" the c linker will figure it out
18:09:24  <frosch123> (c only, not c++)
18:09:45  <Rubidium> well, ask Ludde
18:10:25  * LordAro thinks that is a good book on coding and wonders if anyone agrees (or even if they have a better (free, online) one :)
18:11:49  <Alberth> frosch123: you are not confusing Fortran with C ?
18:12:45  <Alberth> afaik, you must have a non-external definition somewhere, even in C
18:13:46  <frosch123> Alberth: unlikely as i do not know fortran :)
18:14:39  <Alberth> neither do I, but it has 'common' blocks that are magically merged by the linker
18:15:12  <frosch123>
18:16:38  <Alberth> LordAro: looks like a nice resource at first sight
18:16:58  <LordAro> its very long
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18:17:29  <LordAro> but, well, so is the c++ spec :D (or whatever you call it)
18:18:53  <Rubidium> it's only 186 pages
18:18:53  <Alberth> then you haven't seen the C99 standard :)
18:19:24  <Rubidium> and my C++ specs is "only" 1285 pages
18:19:50  <Rubidium> so... that wikibooks thing isn't even close to being very long
18:19:56  <Alberth> stroustrup is a nice 910 pages
18:19:57  <LordAro> ooh...
18:20:19  <LordAro> these are physical books, yes?
18:20:52  <Alberth> stroustrup is the defacto standard c++ bible
18:21:45  <Alberth>
18:24:07  <Alberth> frosch123: interesting, didn't know that
18:24:16  <LordAro> well something written by the creator is going to be good...
18:24:36  <Alberth> it is, very good even, and very readable
18:24:45  <Ammler> hmm, there is no lzma-devel in suse 11.3, how could that package be called?
18:24:59  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: ^
18:25:11  <Terkhen> it might be xz something
18:25:13  <glx> Ammler: xz-utils ?
18:25:33  <Alberth> xz-devel-4.999.9-0.2.beta.20091007git.fc13.x86_64
18:25:34  <LordAro> Alberth: christmas present request coming up! thanks for the hint!
18:25:52  <glx> Alberth: stable is out now :)
18:26:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i believe i just typed something like "zypper search lzma" and it gave me the appropriate package name
18:26:28  <Ammler> xz-devel
18:26:52  <Ammler> 11.3 doesn't anymore, xz-devel should provide lzma-devel
18:27:22  <Alberth> glx: I am sure Fedora people are on it :p
18:27:39  <Alberth> although I am considering switching to Debian :)
18:27:46  <Ammler> anyway, the hint to xz helped :-)
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18:29:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i don't really remember anymore... it's one of the things you set up once and forget about it
18:29:26  <Ammler> well, I know, I did install lzma-devel in 11.2
18:30:13  <frosch123> remains the questions why they actually called it xz :) lzma seems to be a far better name
18:36:37  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe they got tired of the lmaa joke :p
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18:37:14  <polymorphZ> hey-hoo
18:37:16  <polymorphZ> <;
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18:38:08  <polymorphZ> just tried out latest svn version
18:38:31  <Terkhen> hi polymorphZ
18:38:59  <polymorphZ> downloaded all ais via content management
18:39:22  <polymorphZ> and got this
18:39:23  <polymorphZ> dbg: [ai] No suitable AI found, loading 'dummy' AI.
18:39:23  <polymorphZ> dbg: [ai] The AI died unexpectedly.
18:40:10  <polymorphZ> then process exited
18:40:46  <polymorphZ> was set on randomAI but tried setting one
18:42:51  <polymorphZ> never had a chance trying ai yet since 0.7
18:44:04  <Ammler> what is latest svn?
18:44:36  <polymorphZ> 21388
18:44:56  <Ammler> does it work without ai?
18:45:06  <polymorphZ> i think so
18:45:16  <Ammler> why don't you know?
18:45:19  <polymorphZ> played it when disabled
18:45:55  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: translators * r21402 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:55  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:55  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne
18:45:55  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: czech - 2 changes by SmatZ
18:45:55  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: finnish - 2 changes by jpx_
18:45:57  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: french - 2 changes by glx
18:45:57  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 changes by IPG
18:46:03  <Ammler> you loaded new ais and then started a game?
18:46:12  <polymorphZ> all of them
18:46:37  <Ammler> start small :-)
18:47:16  <polymorphZ> should the ais make each other hang if they are downloaded?
18:47:17  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i just checked again, "zypper search" doesn't find it, but "zypper install" does something more and does find it
18:47:32  <Ammler> yep, I confirmed it
18:47:44  <Ammler> provides only work with installing
18:48:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess there's a parameter for search, but i didn't bother checking
18:48:24  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i usually use yast for installing
18:48:43  <Eddi|zuHause> GUI is better if you don't know exactly what you're looking for
18:50:55  <Ammler> indeed, yast does have possibility to search provides
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18:59:51  <polymorphZ> btw platform is linux, and from src
19:00:55  <Terkhen> polymorphZ: try with a single AI
19:01:38  <polymorphZ> should i hit the uninstall button for all and only download one to help openttd seperate them?
19:02:12  <Terkhen> no, just use a single one ingame
19:03:13  <polymorphZ> btw there is no uninstall button
19:03:25  <polymorphZ> tried selecting one ai
19:03:47  <polymorphZ> and game exits after trying to load ai
19:05:30  <polymorphZ> tried 5 random types
19:05:51  <polymorphZ> same result
19:06:17  <Terkhen> polymorphZ: do you get crash.* files in your .openttd folder?
19:06:34  * Alberth ponders what libraries are needed for AIs
19:07:10  <polymorphZ> Terkhen: -
19:07:18  <Terkhen> Alberth: IIRC only squirrel, which is included
19:08:00  <Alberth> yeah,  I think so too
19:08:02  <polymorphZ> but also there was error msg like this
19:08:03  <polymorphZ> Crash encountered, generating crash log...
19:08:03  <polymorphZ> Segmentation fault
19:08:20  <Terkhen> polymorphZ: then you must have a crash.log, crash.sav and crash.png in your openttd data directory
19:08:35  <Alberth> did you build a debug version?
19:08:36  <Terkhen> check the readme to know where to find them, and how to report the bug to the bug tracker
19:09:15  <Alberth> usually next to the openttd.cfg
19:09:18  <polymorphZ> ok
19:09:21  <Alberth> eg in ~/.openttd
19:09:49  <polymorphZ> no result
19:10:30  <Alberth> how do you start the program, by  "cd bin ; ./openttd" ?
19:10:41  <polymorphZ> +
19:11:09  <Alberth> is there a openttd.cfg in bin ?
19:11:20  <Alberth> if so, the crash files should be there too
19:11:31  <polymorphZ> its in ~/openttd/
19:12:13  <polymorphZ> $ find ./ -iname *crash*
19:12:19  <polymorphZ> gives zero results
19:12:58  <Alberth> look for openttd.cfg
19:13:35  <polymorphZ>  9259 2010-12-05 20:02 openttd.cfg
19:13:40  <Alberth> (normally either in ~/.openttd  or next to bin/openttd
19:14:04  <polymorphZ> ~/openttd/
19:14:32  <Alberth> oh, you installed the program perhaps :)
19:14:40  <LordAro> note the '.' ?
19:14:48  <polymorphZ> yes . is there
19:14:54  <polymorphZ> and cfg is there
19:15:04  <polymorphZ> no crashlogs
19:15:24  <polymorphZ> autosave and savegames only
19:15:34  <Terkhen> polymorphZ: you *really* should check the readme for finding your cfg file
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19:15:58  <Terkhen> my guess is that openttd.cfg you found is not the one being in use
19:17:08  <polymorphZ> hm
19:17:20  <Alberth> that is easy to check.   mv openttd.cfg openttd.cfg.found ; touch openttd.cfg ; ./openttd  # and close down immediately.
19:17:30  <polymorphZ> i didnt delete openttd.cfg sine updating svn version should it be a problem?
19:17:41  <Alberth> no, I never delete the file
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19:21:03  <Alberth> polymorphZ: do you have a debugger installed?
19:21:16  <Alberth> you could try running from within gdb
19:21:38  <Alberth> you may have to build the program with debugging switched on
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19:31:50  <polymorphZ> yes i have a debugger
19:32:07  <polymorphZ> but did not enable it
19:34:54  <LordAro> am i correct in thinking that the copper and iron ore trucks (2nd gen) use the same unoaded sprite?
19:35:53  <Alberth> LordAro: no idea, what vehicle set?
19:36:00  <LordAro> standard
19:36:30  <Alberth> even of standard we have 2 versions :)    original and opengfx
19:37:58  <LordAro> you know what i mean... sprite numbers...
19:38:34  <Alberth> oh, sprite numbers....  sorry, no idea, I never looked at those at all.
19:40:03  <Alberth> sprites do look the same in-game (opengfx)
19:40:31  <polymorphZ> how do you compile openttd debugging enabled?
19:40:40  <polymorphZ> (linux)
19:40:53  <SmatZ> polymorphZ: configure --enable-debug[=n]
19:41:05  <SmatZ> with n=0..3 (I think)
19:41:06  <polymorphZ> ty SmatZ o/
19:41:37  <Rubidium> n=0 equals disabling debugging though
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19:43:02  <Alberth> ./configure --enable-debug  <-- is what I always use
19:43:26  <polymorphZ> used $ ./configure --enable-debug=3 --without-lzma --without-liblzo2
19:44:36  <Alberth> interesting test-case, no lzma and no lzo2 :)
19:44:44  <polymorphZ> hmm i remember once i enabled debug and it got better
19:45:11  <polymorphZ> well idonthavethem now so i disabled
19:45:55  <Alberth> oh, that can happen, the compiler typically disables some optimizations, or does them slightly different, so you get different program code
19:46:20  <polymorphZ> nice
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19:46:53  <Alberth> but not really :)
19:47:38  <polymorphZ> so it could be noted in faq try debug=on to disable bugs :)
19:48:57  <Alberth> not a very reliable way to fix bugs, as compiler devs tend to fix those changes :p
19:49:04  <polymorphZ> nah compile done, checking out
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19:52:16  <andythenorth> snap poll: FIRS primary production decrease...
19:52:36  <andythenorth> option A: random decrease chance if no supplies delivered in month
19:52:50  <andythenorth> option B: decrease chance using default production change if no supplies delivered in month
19:53:28  <polymorphZ> nice it woks now
19:53:37  <polymorphZ> only had to enable debugging
19:53:57  <Alberth> you have a broken gcc :)
19:53:59  <polymorphZ> how do you advanced people seach for ai working area on a large map?
19:54:16  <polymorphZ> no stations yet
19:54:39  * andythenorth has low level of poll turnout :P
19:55:01  <Alberth> oh, select 'companies' in the minimap, and see if you can find a colour different from yours
19:55:23  <Alberth> andythenorth: I am wondering about the lack of 'random' with B
19:55:40  <andythenorth> it's the random you'd find in industry_cmd.cpp
19:55:56  <andythenorth> so depends on transported cargo
19:56:14  <andythenorth> if I've understood correctly
19:56:33  <andythenorth> that's assuming monthly production works same as random production change
19:56:49  <andythenorth> it would also re-couple FIRS production change to steady/fluctuating economy
19:56:57  <andythenorth> one more setting to deal with in bug reports :P
19:57:08  * andythenorth hates fluctuating economy
19:57:19  <polymorphZ> cool, never used that feature
19:57:20  <andythenorth> perhaps for all the wrong reasons
19:58:03  <Alberth> well, to eliminate that source, use A :)
19:58:05  <andythenorth> maybe 'fluctuating economy' is the fun money-eater I've been missing in my games
19:58:13  <andythenorth> anyone else play it?
19:58:24  <Terkhen> I have never tried it
19:58:27  *** juliano [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:58:41  <Alberth> I do, and you do notice a small dip every now and then
19:58:57  <andythenorth> I think in vanilla TTD, it could be so bad that it was a race to sell all your vehicles and lift as much track as possible
19:59:14  <andythenorth> but maybe my memory is wrong
19:59:16  <Alberth> never had that experience
19:59:26  <andythenorth> it might have been TTO, we're talking 1995(?)
19:59:30  <andythenorth> anyway...
19:59:53  * andythenorth is trying to design a feature he'll never use, with help from someone who has never played FIRS :P
20:00:00  <frosch123> usually recession caused lots of jams on my networks, as suddenly half of the trains were waiting for cargo to arrive
20:00:48  <Alberth> andythenorth: I'd simply pick the simplest approach as first try
20:01:11  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:01:12  <andythenorth> did that already :)
20:01:17  <andythenorth> I'm on version 3 already
20:01:19  <andythenorth> ;)
20:01:44  <andythenorth> ho ho ho
20:01:50  <Alberth> so I must play with that setting one day :)
20:02:16  * andythenorth should remember to stay away from lego forumes
20:02:46  *** polymorphZ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:03:02  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
20:03:05  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
20:04:08  * andythenorth really doesn't understand lego nerds, which is off
20:04:10  <andythenorth> odd /s
20:07:13  *** polymorphZ [] has joined #openttd
20:10:29  *** pugi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:10:33  <Terkhen> quick poll: will my untested GUI code explode?
20:11:08  <Alberth> 'yes' is a safe answer (although.... 'explode' eh?)
20:11:10  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
20:11:19  <Terkhen> :D
20:11:22  <Wolf01> hello
20:11:28  <Alberth> hello
20:11:31  <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
20:12:40  *** pugi [] has joined #openttd
20:13:30  <Terkhen> it's just not drawing anything, I thought the failure would be more spectacular
20:13:41  * andythenorth votes yes
20:13:45  <andythenorth> too late?
20:14:29  <andythenorth> hey we could make the game democratic
20:14:34  <andythenorth> like, vote for features and stuff
20:14:43  <andythenorth> whatever's voted for, has to be implemented
20:15:17  <Terkhen> andythenorth: agreed, but the dev team gets to vote who has to implement the features voted by users
20:15:40  * Terkhen votes for andythenorth
20:15:59  <andythenorth> I have been setting an example: my projects are run democratically
20:16:05  <andythenorth> there is one man, with one vote :P
20:16:23  <Wolf01> o_O
20:16:28  <Terkhen> :D
20:16:45  <andythenorth> and it's planetmaker :P
20:16:52  <andythenorth> he
20:17:04  <planetmaker> mÀh
20:17:31  <andythenorth> :D
20:17:53  <Wolf01> also I have some projects and the developers are 2 friends of mine, I only host the projects and give a helping hand sometimes
20:17:54  <Alberth> andythenorth: so this quick poll question was just to keep us happy, thinking we make a difference? :)
20:18:07  <andythenorth> sometimes my vote needs a little...guidance
20:18:23  <andythenorth> mostly the code and gameplay tell me how to vote
20:18:31  <andythenorth> except for things I don't care about either way :P
20:18:38  <Alberth> lol
20:18:59  * andythenorth votes for some more shiny perlin stuff
20:19:21  <andythenorth> it's probably still being mined :P
20:24:07  *** Mazur [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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20:24:43  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
20:26:26  *** polymorphZ [] has joined #openttd
20:28:30  <Alberth> my experiment just exploded, a nice 41MB core dump :)
20:28:49  <glx> oops :)
20:30:07  <Terkhen> heh
20:30:48  <Terkhen> once I got one of those in my university account... I exceeded my quota and wasn't able to access my account anymore
20:30:56  <Alberth> well what do you expect from a first quick and dirty experiment where I don't do any checking and grab important parameters like row length sort-of out of the blue :)
20:32:43  <Alberth> Terkhen: how useful :p
20:34:06  * Terkhen decides to not get started on a rant about this
20:34:13  <Terkhen> as I want to finish my patch today :P
20:37:04  <Alberth> \o/  flat surface required!
20:37:05  <Terkhen> <-- the solution looks good for now
20:37:47  <Terkhen> Alberth: that's awesome :)
20:38:43  *** dfox [] has joined #openttd
20:38:56  <Alberth> it's a big hack, I hard-coded the 'flat required' constant to get it working :p
20:39:19  <Alberth> next step, find out why the real thing dumps core :)
20:39:58  *** supermop [] has joined #openttd
20:40:09  <SmatZ> it's supermop!
20:40:15  <supermop> so it is
20:40:40  <Alberth> looking nice Terkhen, the highlighting is a bit subtle with the train colour though
20:41:04  <Terkhen> it's using the same colours than the depot GUI
20:41:30  <Alberth> that is good imho
20:41:37  <Terkhen> but I agree; with clear trains the selection is not very visible
20:41:51  <supermop> oooh whats this that I am eavesdropping on?
20:42:02  <Terkhen> but I won't do anything to change it; someone would not like the change :)
20:42:17  <Alberth> it is a different patch imho
20:42:23  <Terkhen> yes
20:42:34  <Alberth> supermop: you can eavesdrop all day here if you like :)
20:43:06  <SmatZ> supermop: :)
20:43:11  <supermop> does it still count as eavesdropping if I don't understand what I am hearing?
20:43:18  <SmatZ> sure
20:43:27  <supermop> ah neat
20:43:44  <Terkhen> I think this version will be the "good one", but let's see if it pass some testing first :)
20:43:44  <LordAro> i've been eavesdropping for hours...:)
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20:43:59  * andythenorth thinks 'shiny'
20:44:06  <Terkhen> argh, I started with 5 patches and I'm already at 11
20:44:55  *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@] has joined #openttd
20:45:04  * andythenorth started with 1 set and now has 3 :P
20:45:39  <Alberth> I still have only one patch, but a very chaotic one :)
20:46:35  <Alberth> andythenorth: they all share that they add *very* nice looking graphics to the openttd world
20:46:52  <supermop> indeed
20:47:40  <LordAro> g2g people :9
20:47:42  <LordAro> :(
20:47:45  <LordAro> lol
20:47:49  <LordAro> bye
20:47:51  <Alberth> bye LordAro
20:47:51  <supermop> I started with one set, and I still don't even have that yet...
20:47:56  *** LordAro [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
20:47:57  <supermop> bye
20:48:17  * andythenorth has possibly written more tickets than code :P
20:48:21  <andythenorth> FIRS has....lots of tickets
20:48:34  <Alberth> I noticed :)
20:48:42  <planetmaker> andythenorth: I doubt that you have written 20k tickets ;-)
20:48:51  <andythenorth> cpp wrote most of that code for me
20:48:57  <planetmaker> which is approx the amount of lines of FIRS code
20:49:04  <andythenorth> and foobar wrote much of the rest
20:49:14  <andythenorth> I've written a few simple templates, that's all
20:49:16  <andythenorth> :P
20:49:30  <Alberth> planetmaker: you should count the number of text lines in all the tickets :)
20:49:33  <andythenorth> planetmaker: anything I can do to help us get HEQS 1.0?
20:49:39  *** Chrill [] has joined #openttd
20:49:54  <Terkhen> 1.0 already? nice :)
20:49:57  <Alberth> close all tickets ?
20:49:59  <planetmaker> cat sprites/nfo/*/*pnfo | wc -l
20:50:01  <planetmaker>    14969
20:51:27  <planetmaker> I know... those nasty parameters :-S
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20:52:15  <planetmaker> they were too frustrating the day before yesterday, I couldn't look at it today
20:52:50  <andythenorth> I'm in no particular rush :)
20:52:55  <andythenorth> would just be nice to 1.0 something
20:53:10  <andythenorth> but at least this way I don't have to think about starting 2.0 :)
20:54:06  <Terkhen> andythenorth: <-- should we open a thread like this one for HEQS 1.0?
20:54:18  <andythenorth> oh, please do
20:54:21  <andythenorth> I'd welcome it :P
20:54:33  <andythenorth> people do it to Pikka
20:54:49  <andythenorth> I don't want to be left out
20:55:21  <Terkhen> :D
20:55:28  <andythenorth> go write the patch
20:55:31  <andythenorth> I'll play the game
20:55:55  <planetmaker> the patch "openttd_v1_to_v2.diff"?
20:56:02  <planetmaker> sounds big
20:56:11  <planetmaker> :-P
20:56:36  <Terkhen> rm src/* && hg diff?
20:57:17  <andythenorth> just do all of these, and call that 2.0 :P
20:59:15  *** ogre [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:59:15  <planetmaker> you can do better andythenorth ;-)
20:59:33  <andythenorth> look at all the ones I've bounced from that list
20:59:36  <planetmaker> why stop so short? ;-)
20:59:40  <andythenorth> ponies taken out and shot...
20:59:49  <Terkhen> yeah... I still see no newgrf specs for RV wagons
21:01:10  <andythenorth> well finish your patch and we'll write some
21:01:39  <Terkhen> I now understand the code part of articulated vehicles, the newgrf part is still a mistery to me
21:01:48  <Terkhen> I'll probaby try to write a small articulated vehicle GRF
21:02:03  <andythenorth> it's trivial
21:02:08  <andythenorth> and spooky at first :P
21:02:40  <andythenorth> be sure to write in nfo though
21:02:51  <andythenorth> for fun
21:03:59  * Terkhen values his sanity
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21:14:35  <Wolf01> mmmh, switching avatar to Santa Wolf
21:17:53  <Wolf01> ok, task done
21:18:30  <supermop> Ok I have an embarassing question
21:19:10  <planetmaker> fun for us possibly :-P
21:19:17  <supermop> any special precautions if I want to play a multiplayer game with some new grfs?
21:19:34  <supermop> my brother is bored in delft and just getting back into ottd
21:19:35  <Chrill> make sure they have the same new grfs? :P
21:19:48  <supermop> so i thought i'd show him what's new
21:20:05  <supermop> like pbs,  and maybe firs
21:20:18  <planetmaker> supermop: not really. Just make sure you both have them. Or better only use those which are on bananas
21:20:43  <supermop> alright
21:20:54  <planetmaker> (you need identical grf files)
21:20:55  *** perk11 [~perk11@] has joined #openttd
21:21:09  <supermop> not sure he's ever used bananas before, but I am sure i can walk him through it
21:21:32  <planetmaker> hm, you play stable or nightly?
21:21:53  <planetmaker> do you have the server running already?
21:21:58  <supermop> i usually play with CD and departure boards
21:22:08  <supermop> but i think he just has 1.0.5
21:22:18  <planetmaker> uh... then you have to make sure you have the very same OpenTTD version
21:22:23  <supermop> which i have on here somewhere
21:22:44  <supermop> oops
21:22:48  <planetmaker> you could for fun just join the #openttdcoop welcome server
21:22:51  <supermop> still have 1.0.3
21:22:54  <planetmaker> it runs 1.0.5
21:23:28  <planetmaker> And if you can't be bothered to make money, I can give you the pw to my company.
21:23:45  <planetmaker> just don't buy planes or boats ;-)
21:24:20  <planetmaker> they have annual running costs in the same money range my company earned in 30 years ;-)
21:24:56  <Wolf01> I noticed the new OTTD Useful 4.0, I forgot where is the old folder and how to set it in MSVC80 :D
21:25:31  <supermop> hmm i think i had better finally learn how to forward my ports and such
21:25:47  <planetmaker> that's why I suggested to use an existing server ;-)
21:26:25  <glx> Wolf01: just extract 4.0 over the previous one
21:26:43  <Wolf01> eh, I don't have a previous one
21:26:50  <Wolf01> not on this pc
21:27:27  <Wolf01> I think I extracted it on the VS80 library folder
21:27:45  <Wolf01> but I must be sure
21:27:55  <Wolf01> where's the setting in any way?
21:28:24  <glx> in options
21:28:29  <glx> projects and solutions
21:28:45  <glx> VC++ directories
21:29:50  <Eddi|zuHause> ... i have a feeling H0 is the wrong gauge for me...
21:30:47  <Wolf01> uhm... I already was there and I don't have anything about that... Is it only for the current project?
21:31:14  <Terkhen> Wolf01: are you using 2010?
21:31:23  <Wolf01> 2005
21:32:02  <Terkhen> hmm.. I know that in 2010 things are different from 2008, but I have never used 2005
21:32:07  <Wolf01> ('cause of my old 2005 PocketPC)
21:32:19  <Rubidium> Wolf01: then you must like all those compiler warnings OpenTTD has :)
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21:36:09  <Terkhen> finally, done :)
21:36:48  <polymorphZ> sálálá
21:36:49  <polymorphZ> <;
21:37:30  <polymorphZ> btw
21:37:45  <polymorphZ> everybody uses stable version in multiplayer?
21:38:08  <dih> everybody uses the version of the server he/she wants to play on
21:38:36  <polymorphZ> was meaning multiplayer
21:38:42  <dih> me too
21:38:58  <polymorphZ> wanted to join a game but evey game was mismatch
21:39:16  <dih> then find the server you want to play on, and get that version
21:39:38  <polymorphZ> versionnumber was not displayed in latest svn version
21:39:41  <polymorphZ> ;/
21:39:48  <polymorphZ> so wtf
21:39:50  <dih>
21:40:11  <dih> don't start wtf'ing something just because you fail to understand something
21:40:17  <Ammler> if you like to run a non-stable, I would use a nightly rev
21:40:21  <dih> else you aint getting much help from a bunch of people in here
21:40:29  <polymorphZ> ah ok
21:40:44  <polymorphZ> ijustremember there was a version number displayed in 0.7
21:40:50  <polymorphZ> and was missing it
21:41:37  <polymorphZ> oc it may be unneccesary for testing things in code
21:41:53  <Rubidium> you have a version number as well, it's just r21XYZ and not 1.2.3
21:42:51  <Wolf01> gah, I need the DX SDK too
21:43:20  <Rubidium> just build a x64 binary; they don't need DirectX
21:44:05  <Wolf01> ah, I fond why I can't compile OTTD here... no MSVC, only MSVB :P
21:44:21  <Terkhen> that could be a problem :)
21:44:30  <Wolf01> no options about VC++ then
21:44:54  <Wolf01> but VS told me it was installed
21:45:07  *** xiong [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
21:47:06  <Wolf01> mmh, 6GB free on system...
21:47:15  <Wolf01> no, not this time
21:48:11  <dih> @logs
21:48:11  <DorpsGek> dih:
21:48:31  *** TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:48:32  <Lakie> I'm guessing you didn't get to select which languages you wanted MSVS to install?
21:52:57  <Wolf01> I installed "VS" with VB only, but it tells I have installed VC++, VC# and  VJ++ too in the splash screen
21:53:34  <polymorphZ> howcome openttd does not have the water bug? :(
21:53:52  <b_jonas> polymorphZ: it's intentional
21:53:54  <Wolf01> I didn't remember about this on the old pc, it said only VB and VC++
21:53:56  *** TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
21:54:20  <Terkhen> what is the water bug?
21:54:42  <polymorphZ> blow up water, place signs, you have cheap waterland ;>>
21:54:42  <supermop> so my brother is on a university campus and doesn't have a router, how doe he forward his ports?
21:54:52  <andythenorth> good night
21:55:02  <Terkhen> night andythenorth
21:55:06  *** andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
21:55:06  <supermop> later
21:55:55  <Rubidium> supermop: then either he doesn't need to forward them, or he's screwed as he doesn't have access to the NAT to set up port forwarding
21:56:27  <supermop> the later sounds more likely
21:56:37  <supermop> He's at delft,
21:56:52  <dih> depending on the university, there may not even be NAT in place
21:56:54  <supermop> not sure if anyone is familiar with things there
21:56:57  <dih> but he'll be screwed anyway :-P
21:57:04  <glx> no need to forward ports to join a server
21:57:18  <supermop> he wants to host on a map that he made
21:58:31  <polymorphZ> its interesting to fund a new industry and rgen not own it, so place it as far as it can be to get the most profit transporting things to it
21:59:38  <planetmaker> supermop: did he just try to start the game and select MP?
21:59:55  <planetmaker> provided ports are free, it should work that simple
22:02:50  <polymorphZ> about the version number
22:03:11  <polymorphZ> opened up multiplayer, and game info only writes version mismatch
22:03:27  <planetmaker> polymorphZ: then get the same version!
22:03:40  <polymorphZ> so noone using svn version :(
22:03:56  <planetmaker> most do. Just not yours
22:03:59  <dih> nobody is using _that_ specific version
22:04:12  <polymorphZ> ah
22:04:14  <planetmaker>
22:04:20  <Rubidium> there are at least 3 serers running a (fairly recent) svn revision
22:04:36  <polymorphZ> ok ty
22:04:58  *** Fast2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:05:09  <planetmaker> hm. noone updated the prozone
22:05:13  <Rubidium> I could start a version with roughly revision r21416 if you want that
22:05:16  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
22:05:24  * andythenorth had a thought, from actually playing the game
22:05:29  <planetmaker> good morning andythenorth :-P
22:05:37  <Rubidium> planetmaker: that game isn't done yet, is it?
22:05:39  <andythenorth> another way to spend money to boost town rating would be useful :P
22:05:46  <Rubidium> andythenorth: change the babies diapers
22:05:51  <andythenorth> especially in rainforests
22:05:58  <planetmaker> it's not. But we kinda try to keep the server revisions in sync.
22:06:06  *** goblin [] has joined #openttd
22:06:07  <planetmaker> e.g. updating PZ when we update PS
22:06:17  <planetmaker> s/e.g./i.e./
22:07:50  <andythenorth> ho hum
22:08:01  <andythenorth> good service it is then
22:08:02  <andythenorth> bye
22:08:03  *** andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
22:08:21  <planetmaker> lol
22:08:56  *** Biolunar [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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22:11:35  *** fonsinchen [] has joined #openttd
22:17:40  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21403 /trunk/src/command_type.h: -Change: the maximum size of the string argument of a command
22:17:50  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21404 /trunk/src/ (string.cpp string_func.h): -Add: method for getting the length of an Utf8 string in characters
22:18:19  <polymorphZ> heh
22:20:30  *** ogre [] has quit [Quit: ouais bah a plus ouais c'est ça]
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22:21:25  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21405 /trunk/src/network/ (core/core.h network_server.cpp network_udp.cpp): -Codechange: prepare sending of company information in the UDP packet for longer company names (in bytes), by truncating the names if needed
22:21:49  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21406 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: rename some textbuf related names to make them a bit more descriptive
22:23:06  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21407 /trunk/src/ (console_gui.cpp misc_gui.cpp querystring_gui.h textbuf_gui.h): -Codechange: prepare the text buffer code for limiting on number of characters besides the number of bytes
22:24:12  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21408 /trunk/src/ (company_cmd.cpp company_gui.cpp company_type.h): -Codechange: limit president name by amount of characters, not bytes
22:24:29  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21409 /trunk/src/ (depot_cmd.cpp depot_gui.cpp depot_type.h): -Codechange: limit depot name by amount of characters, not bytes
22:24:52  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21410 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp engine.cpp engine_type.h): -Codechange: limit engine name by amount of characters, not bytes
22:24:52  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21411 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_group.cpp group_cmd.cpp group_gui.cpp group_type.h): -Codechange: limit group name by amount of characters, not bytes
22:25:10  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21412 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: limit company name by amount of characters, not bytes
22:25:20  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21413 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_sign.cpp signs_cmd.cpp signs_gui.cpp signs_type.h): -Codechange: limit sign name by amount of characters, not bytes
22:25:35  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21414 /trunk/src/ (town_cmd.cpp town_gui.cpp town_type.h townname.cpp): -Codechange: limit town name by amount of characters, not bytes
22:25:41  <TrueBrain> omg, couldn't you do it in one commit or something?
22:25:43  <TrueBrain> spammer
22:26:00  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21415 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: limit station/waypoint name by amount of characters, not bytes
22:26:01  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21416 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: limit vehicle name by amount of characters, not bytes
22:26:03  * TrueBrain hugs Rubidium :)
22:26:09  <Wolf01> combobreaker >_>
22:26:27  <TrueBrain> hell yeah
22:27:10  <Wolf01> this is the very first feature I implemented on my old c++ gui project
22:27:38  <Wolf01> I needed it to draw the cursor in textboxes :D
22:27:49  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: you want a r30k party quickly as well, won't you?
22:27:52  <Wolf01> with utf8
22:28:09  <TrueBrain> hmm .. cake ...
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22:28:41  <Wolf01> Rubidium, Chillcore already beat you,
22:29:01  <Wolf01> (notice the revision number)
22:29:24  <Terkhen> :D
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22:29:50  <Wolf01> typo or patch from the future... probably the 2nd, we must ask him for other features
22:30:47  <Wolf01> ok, bed time
22:30:51  <Wolf01> nini
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22:34:24  <Ammler> is it too late to change hg convert to hgsubversion, it has native svn support
22:34:39  <Ammler> and no need to keep a revmap file
22:36:16  * Rubidium votes for: if it ain't broken, don't fix it
22:39:00  <TrueBrain> +1
22:39:43  <Terkhen> +2
22:39:47  <Xaroth> +3
22:39:52  <Rubidium> Ammler: so you need at least 3 votes from the other sysops
22:40:00  <Xaroth> bah, rubi broke the combo
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22:40:50  <Ammler> I might ask in #sysops then
22:41:10  <richardus> have official mac builds been discontinued?
22:41:25  <Ammler> loooooooooong ago
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22:42:08  <Rubidium> Ammler: sysops
22:42:19  <Terkhen> richardus:
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22:44:08  <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21417 /trunk/src/network/network_udp.cpp: -Fix: ofcourse MSVC x64 has something to complain about
22:44:11  <glx> haha
22:44:24  <Terkhen> :)
22:44:27  <Xaroth> s/x64//
22:44:40  <Xaroth> MSVC -always- complains
22:44:51  <glx> it's worse for x64
22:45:02  <Rubidium> actually, win32 doesn't complain in this case
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23:38:48  <supermop> had  a pretty fun vanilla game there
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