Log for #openttd on 20th December 2010:
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02:16:23  <SmatZ> interesting... bug that occured quite rarely
02:16:43  <SmatZ> now I found the cause, and I wonder how it could work at all :P
02:16:55  <SmatZ> it was overwriting "random" memory
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02:50:05  <DanMacK> Hello all
03:04:18  <glevans2> SmatZ, what OS do you run openttd on?
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03:19:35  <SmatZ> glevans2: gentoo linux
03:26:38  <SirSquidness> I'm running OpenTTD 1.0.5, I'm in a game that's been going for 300 years. I have auto-renew old trains on, and my fleet of Lev4 Maglev trains ahs eben replaced
03:26:58  <SirSquidness> Except where a new Lev4 train has 96% reliability, the auto-renewed trains have 0% and are braeking down all of the time
03:27:26  <SmatZ> iirc, engines should stop aging after 2070 (or 2050?)
03:28:36  <SirSquidness> I didn't start playing in this game until 2120 or so, and I have old vehicles >.>
03:29:33  <SirSquidness> Any ideas about the 0% reliability thing though? I can't find anything on google about it, and having such constant breakdowns is a minor inconvenience
03:31:12  <DanMacK> Turn breakdowns off...
03:31:47  <DanMacK> What year are you in?
03:31:49  <SirSquidness> That's not fixing the issue
03:31:50  <SirSquidness> 2227
03:34:15  <SirSquidness> The trains in question (with 0% reliability) are not even half of their rated max age
03:34:16  <DanMacK> It's possible the 0% reliability may just be due to the fact the vehicle design is 200 years old?
03:34:27  <DanMacK> What is it when you purchase it?
03:34:52  <glevans2> there is an option for vehicles not expiring
03:34:54  <SirSquidness> 96% (I just purchased another one then to check)
03:35:17  <DanMacK> try that and no breakdowns (not reduced)
03:35:56  <SirSquidness> I see what is happening; the reliability is falling at about 1%/10seconds on this new train I just purchased (it hasn't even left the depot!)
03:37:16  <SirSquidness> So I suppose my question is going to shift from "wtf, 0% reliability?"  to "why does reliability drop so fast now?"
03:37:44  <DanMacK> old design
03:38:08  <DanMacK> Try the "Never Expire" option
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03:39:36  <SirSquidness> Vehicles never expire is on.
03:39:44  <SirSquidness> It has been for the entire game
03:39:48  <DanMacK> hmmm
03:40:06  <DanMacK> Only thing I can think of is the length of time the vehcle's been available
03:40:21  <DanMacK> Same as buying a regal bus in 2000
03:40:38  <SirSquidness> Then why isn't it happening to my entire fleet? :/
03:40:56  <DanMacK> :/
03:41:15  * DanMacK has never played a game to that far in
03:41:20  <SirSquidness> I have identical vehicles on other parts of my network that are newer than the trains that are dying that are going as they shoudl be
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03:42:50  <DanMacK> Damned if I know...  lol
03:47:26  <SirSquidness>
03:47:52  <SirSquidness> Witness the trains between Squid City Airport, Gredston Woods and Slonthill Valley
03:49:33  <SirSquidness> The only trains on that route which seem to be free of reliability issues are the goods trains between Quardston Woods and Squid City Airport
03:56:08  <SirSquidness> I see what's happening...
03:56:46  <SirSquidness> The reliability is dropping quicker than it used to, and the trains aren't getting serviced regularly enough
03:56:56  <SirSquidness> Apologies for my apparent ignorance \o/
03:57:29  <DanMacK> No worries :D
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05:38:38  <Mugendai> for some reason, commodities, such as iron ore and wood, seem to be broken
05:39:11  <Mugendai> we build things next to the industries that produce them, but the truck depot and train station won't gather things from them for vehicles to take
05:39:19  <Mugendai> anyone know why this could be?
05:43:44  <Mugendai> passengers seem to be traveling around correctly, however
05:44:00  <Mugendai> and mail
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06:46:07  <Terkhen> good mroning
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07:02:43  <Rubidium> Mugendai: the default setting is that cargo is only delivered to a station when there is a "demand". A demand means that there has been a vehicle trying to pick that cargo up
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07:13:54  <Mugendai> We had vehicles trying to pick them up, but the cargo never appeared
07:15:26  <Rubidium> then I need to see the savegame to know what's going on
07:15:51  <Rubidium> might very well be the station is too far away or there are other stations with higher ratings getting the cargo
07:16:23  <Mugendai> well, the station is right next to it, and there aren't any other stations around it
07:16:47  <Mugendai> although, I think it was a bug related to downloading online content
07:17:59  <LordAro> you probably are either using the wrong vehicles, or they are refitted wrongly
07:20:24  <Mugendai> I had restarted the game, and it seems to be working now
07:20:56  <LordAro> as rubidium said, a save game would be nice ;)
07:21:18  <Mugendai> alright
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07:26:27  <Mugendai>
07:26:55  <Mugendai> it was used on a dedicated server
07:27:38  <Mugendai> and we were trying to get cargo near the largest town (or second largest, not sure which)
07:32:15  <LordAro> there is a bus stop at the sawmill...;)
07:32:53  <LordAro> and there are many unused truck and bus stops all over the place...
07:33:37  <Mugendai> yeah, I just realized the truck stop was demolished after we decided it didn't work
07:34:10  <Mugendai> at the iron mine, that is
07:35:26  <Mugendai> I assigned some vehicles to deliver iron from the nearby mine to the steel mill, although they never picked up iron
07:38:03  <LordAro> would that be kibayashi iron ore mine to the steel mill to the north of it?
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07:38:25  <Mugendai> yeah
07:39:34  <LordAro> your grf list is a mess btw, don't have proper vehicles for half of the cargoes (have to refit)
07:40:01  <Mugendai> so it seems
07:40:11  <LordAro> oh, and while cars are free, they don't have much capacity, which makes them fairly useless ;)
07:40:39  <Mugendai> the player who requested cars said they were useful for small towns
07:41:14  <LordAro> as an eye-candy grf (as they were intended) ;)
07:44:03  <LordAro> i dunno what you were doing wrong, iron ore and wood works fine for me...
07:44:34  <LordAro> a save of when things weren't working would be good, but it sounds like you haven't got one of those
07:45:06  <Mugendai> not really
07:45:22  <Mugendai> at least they're likely to work now, I think
07:45:49  <LordAro> did you add grfs during the game? that causes huge problems...
07:46:00  <Mugendai> Don't believe so
07:46:12  <Mugendai> since I cleaned up the newgrf's and started a new game
07:46:39  <LordAro> mmmm
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07:48:01  <LordAro> my final analysis would be that since there isn't a dedicated iron ore vehicle available, you did not refit any trucks you used to iron ore, therefore there was no demand for iron ore at the station
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07:52:11  * LordAro ponders whether a NoAI API function regarding whether a bridge is above the tile should go in AITile or AIBridge...
07:54:13  <LordAro> damn, yexo's offline :( anyone else awake got any ideas?
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08:12:24  <PolymorphZ> hey-ho
08:13:03  <LordAro> ho-hey ;)
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08:40:15  * Alberth votes for AIBridge
08:41:01  * LordAro thanks Alberth
08:41:45  <Alberth> it is a little too complicated for a tile function imho
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09:09:47  <LordAro> so it would be: AIBridge::IsBridgeAboveTile(tileIndex t)  ok?
09:12:52  <Alberth> Something like that. I don't know the policy of when something is to be coded in squirrel and when in C++, so yexo may have other ideas about it
09:16:18  <LordAro> i can wait :)  it would use the IsBridgeAbove function in bridge_map.h (seems best;) )
09:20:10  * avdg wonders if there is also a whichBridge function
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09:21:09  <Alberth> could be more useful information :)
09:22:06  * LordAro is not sure what avdg or Alberth are talking about... :/
09:22:52  <avdg> the location of the bridge that is above the tile
09:22:55  <Alberth> instead of a yes/no answer, return 'that bridge is in the way'
09:23:26  <avdg> usefull for tf checking I think
09:24:00  <Alberth> hopefully we don't get multiple bridges above each other :)
09:24:18  <avdg> :) not yet
09:24:37  <avdg> unless ramps...
09:25:29  <avdg> you can build bridges over ramps
09:26:33  <LordAro> avdg: tf checking?
09:27:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: there is no technical reason why we can't have those
09:28:16  <avdg> it would just look ugly with glitching graphics
09:29:45  <Alberth> but having several layers of bridge would be fun, like they have in America
09:34:54  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21542 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Codechange (r14789): Handling a click at a tile once is enough.
09:36:58  <planetmaker> moin
09:37:22  <Alberth> moin planetmaker
09:38:42  <avdg> moin
09:41:42  <LordAro> moin
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09:55:52  <alvin_rxg> Hello, i'm new to program. but i wanna try openttd's ai myself. here i wanna know if it's possible to write ai with C language or others?
09:56:18  <Alberth> with others, namely squirrel, sure
09:56:54  <Alberth>
09:57:19  <alvin_rxg> Alberth: i just don't wanna squirrel...
09:58:22  <alvin_rxg> Alberth: it seems ppl must use squirrel?
09:58:32  <avdg> why not? C is also *just* a language
09:59:27  <Alberth> "must" is such a strong word. If you want other people to use your AI, squirrel is the way to go, as that is supported out of the box
09:59:31  <avdg> and you don't have to compile it
10:00:08  <Alberth> you *can* use C++ (or its C subset), but a) it is *much* more difficult, and b) nobody is going to use your AI
10:00:10  <alvin_rxg> avdg: ok.. i just don't wanna to learn once more a script language.
10:00:12  <planetmaker> as such they work cross-platform
10:00:51  <planetmaker> "I want it my way without knowing the reasons why it is as it is"? ;-)
10:00:58  <avdg> alvin_rxg: if you abstract things good enough, its just a language with an other syntax
10:00:59  <alvin_rxg> well. i wanna first to imporve my program skill. whatever other ppl will use my ai
10:01:14  <Alberth> alvin_rxg: fixing bugs in OpenTTD is another option, which needs C/C++ skills
10:01:21  <planetmaker> then don't write an AI, but ... ^
10:01:29  <Alberth> or making extensions
10:01:30  <alvin_rxg> avdg: hmm. that seems ppl have programmed years
10:01:43  <planetmaker> so?
10:02:15  <alvin_rxg> Alberth: i have read some src of openttd, when i search for how trainspeed is calculated
10:02:50  <Alberth> please don't start on train speed!
10:03:12  <Alberth> a very debatable subject here :)
10:03:13  <alvin_rxg> Alberth: why?
10:03:31  <alvin_rxg> ok.
10:03:39  <avdg> Alberth: its just some research, not a discussion (yet)
10:03:55  <Alberth> people have strong opinions about what it should be, and not everybody has the same idea
10:05:08  <planetmaker> alvin_rxg: extend the landscape generator such that it automatically creates rivers
10:05:49  <planetmaker> (just as an idea with a limited scope)
10:05:59  <alvin_rxg> planetmaker: use ai to create rivers?
10:06:09  <planetmaker> You'd not dig through the whole code base for that but you'd learn much about C/C++ then still
10:06:47  <planetmaker> alvin_rxg: I'm not talking about AI. I went by your statement that you want to improve your C/C++ skill.
10:06:53  <planetmaker> AIs for OpenTTD won't help you there
10:07:00  <alvin_rxg> planetmaker: with doxygen, i don't need to watch through the whole code src
10:07:19  <alvin_rxg> ok... x_X
10:07:38  <Alberth> alvin_rxg: there are still plenty of undocumented pieces of code :)
10:07:52  <planetmaker> he, yeah
10:08:07  <planetmaker> thus speaketh Mr DocThisCode ;-)
10:08:25  <alvin_rxg> hmm ._. big project
10:08:31  *** Alberth is now known as MrDocThisCode
10:08:41  <planetmaker> alvin_rxg: not smaller than an AI ;-)
10:08:44  <planetmaker> :-D
10:09:09  <MrDocThisCode> AI is much bigger (if you want a good one, at least)
10:09:32  <alvin_rxg> i know, i'm just wanna one i think good
10:10:51  <planetmaker> you could also extend an existing AI. Most are GPL2-licensed
10:11:33  <alvin_rxg> planetmaker: yes, i see.
10:11:59  *** MrDocThisCode is now known as Alberth
10:12:22  <planetmaker> :-)
10:13:15  <alvin_rxg> ok. fisrt to learn squirrel, then read the api docu, then write one.
10:13:27  * planetmaker hates the subtle and not-so-subtle differences between C++ and ObjectiveC++ :-(
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10:15:36  <planetmaker> alvin_rxg: when I look at the squirrel code of existing AIs it seems that one can just dive it. It's not like one cannot master that on the fly, if you have knowledge of other languages (and using existing NoAIs and NoAI libs as reference)
10:15:58  <alvin_rxg> planetmaker: ok.
10:17:20  * Alberth gives planetmaker a cup of coffee
10:17:33  <planetmaker> thanks :-)
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11:35:27  <Wolf01> hello
11:35:43  <Alberth> hello
11:37:02  <Markk> Moin
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12:00:39  <lugo>  :D
12:02:35  <lugo> 2.5 million views, guess you guys know it already ;)
12:03:51  <Alberth> I don't keep a record of what video 'QenN5DVuLtw' is
12:04:14  <Eddi|zuHause> [download] Destination: Train_Snow_Plowing_2-QenN5DVuLtw.mp4
12:09:48  <norbert79> lugo: Before I even opened it, I knew it was THAT vidseo :D
12:09:54  <norbert79> lugo: Awesome scene indeed
12:10:02  <lugo> hehe :)
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12:16:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if it was last year, but we once discussed a video where a snow plough train with like 4 engines got stuck, and it took them like a week to unstuck them...
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13:06:04  <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause last year IIRC
13:09:11  <Wolf01> 6 units, not 4
13:09:13  <Wolf01>
13:09:39  <Wolf01> to get unstuck
13:16:56  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21543 /trunk/src/dock_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove _build_docks_button_proc array.
13:18:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21544 /trunk/src/dock_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Fold the small static click functions into the switch.
13:20:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21545 /trunk/src/dock_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Replace the callback by another switch.
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13:52:15  <Wolf01> Feature: make docks buildable only after donation
13:58:01  <dihedral> according to UPS my laptop
13:58:04  <dihedral> will be here on the 22nd
13:58:07  <dihedral> :-)
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13:58:32  <planetmaker> that's what she said ;-)
13:58:46  <planetmaker> Last UPS parcel I shipped was more than a week late
13:58:55  <dihedral> thank you
13:59:00  <dihedral> and a merry x-mas to you too :-P
13:59:06  <dihedral> hello by the way :-)
13:59:23  <planetmaker> and yes, it was shipped as express, next-day delivery ;-)
13:59:27  <Eddi|zuHause> "Amazon kÃŒndigt Lieferprobleme an - Jetzt könnte es eng fÃŒr die Geschenke werden: Das Winterwetter behindert das WeihnachtsgeschÀft des weltgrößten Online-EinzelhÀndlers Amazon. Es könne in weiten Teilen Deutschlands zu Lieferverzögerungen kommen. Die Witterung sei eine Herausforderung fÃŒr den Versandhandel, sagte eine Unternehmenssprecherin am Montag im Logistikzentrum im osthessischen Bad Hersfeld."
13:59:52  <planetmaker> hello, also :-)
14:00:16  <dihedral> good job i did not order via amazon :-P
14:04:22  <dihedral> :-)
14:04:33  <dihedral> how on earth do they do that :-P
14:05:29  <planetmaker> what? getting billing information and scanning a parcel 11 hours later? Doesn't seem too improbable, eh?
14:05:32  <dihedral> "Von UPS zur VerfÃŒgung gestellte Statusabfrageergebnisse:  20.12.2010 9:05  ET "
14:06:00  <planetmaker> you mix local time (Shanghai) with local time East coast US
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14:07:13  <dihedral> UPS is known for their odd time notices :-P
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14:35:25  <Wolf01> it would be cool to be possible to edit the orders of a group ov vehicles, if all the vehicles of the group have the same order, or to set the shared orders for all the vehicles of the group instead of doing it manually, so the order management will be acomplished by drag&drop and a click on a button
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14:39:26  <Wolf01> the button might be linked with the first vehicle on the group, so if the group is empty, the button will be grayed
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14:54:19  <Alberth> make them all shared might be doable
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14:55:49  <Alberth> on the other hand, it may be easier to make 'group' == 'shared orders', thus making shared orders more visible
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16:00:03  <Belugas> hello
16:00:59  <Wolf01> hello :D
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16:10:53  <DanMacK> Hey all
16:13:53  <Wolf01> yo
16:19:53  <DanMacK> seems quieter than usual in here today...
16:20:49  <planetmaker> moin DanMacK :-)
16:21:04  <planetmaker> all activity subdued by thick snow cover ;-)
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16:27:49  <DanMacK> how much snow?
16:28:27  <Prof_Frink> Bugger all, it's been raining since midday.
16:28:49  * DanMacK had 3 days straight of it and 100+ cm'
16:29:04  <DanMacK> Then another 3 days with 60cm
16:29:12  <DanMacK> we're still hauling the shit away
16:29:39  <DanMacK> alot of piles 2-3m high around and in parking lots
16:30:02  <DanMacK> If you want more, we can send it over :P
16:30:09  <Prof_Frink> Yes please!
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16:30:22  <Belugas> NO THANKS!
16:30:34  <Belugas> note, we don't have that much ;)
16:30:47  <Prof_Frink> Actually, deliver it straight to Wales
16:32:26  * DanMacK sends a convoy of trucks up the 401 towards Montreal
16:34:02  * Belugas sends Mohawks to block the bridges around the island
16:34:37  <DanMacK> lol
16:35:40  <planetmaker> oh, we got 15cm last night here
16:36:01  <planetmaker> little compared to you. But much for the German low lands :-)
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16:36:42  <planetmaker> it's more than communal services can put up with ;-)
16:36:55  <Belugas> that's strange... it's the first year that europeans can talk about lots of snow, and not just north americans, as it used to :)
16:39:01  <planetmaker> :-)
16:39:10  <planetmaker> gulf stream is failing ;-)
16:39:41  <Rubidium> yeah... and all hell breaks loose
16:40:30  <ProfFrink> Only up north.
16:40:54  <planetmaker>
16:41:11  <Rubidium> yau for buying loads and loads of trains that the Germans don't use in the winter due to the electronics getting shorted by the snow ;)
16:41:18  <planetmaker> too lazy to search for the citation from nature.
16:41:36  <planetmaker> haha :-) Yeah, they're good at that.
16:42:01  <planetmaker> In summer the air conditions fail above 32°C and in winter electrics short-circuit due to snow. That's 1A quality products for sure
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16:43:35  <Rubidium> oh, and apparantly they're almost through the salt stocks... just like last winter when there was a bit of snow
16:44:15  <planetmaker> yep, they are
16:44:34  <planetmaker> it took me yesterday 2 hours for 60 kilometers.
16:44:55  <planetmaker> and roads were not better today from all I could see.
16:45:13  <Rubidium> planetmaker: that's quick
16:45:37  <planetmaker> well. On national road I consider that not really quick ;-)
16:46:35  <Rubidium> 3.5 hours for 45 kilometers last friday, although to be honest only 40 kilometers of that were highways
16:47:04  <planetmaker> ui...
16:47:23  <planetmaker> well. There was nowhere a traffic jam or alike. Just... icy and snowy conditions
16:48:09  * Rubidium wonders whether to call the situation of last friday a traffic jam
16:49:10  <Rubidium> although according to those people telling where the jams were it was (amongst the ones of 16 km or more)
16:50:23  <planetmaker> he
16:54:17  <DanMacK> we had an entire highway closed for 3 days
16:54:46  <planetmaker> they did the same thing here in a Federal state. But only for one day or so
16:55:03  <DanMacK>
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17:02:55  <planetmaker> :-)
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17:06:13  <DanMacK> Hey Lakie
17:06:24  <Lakie> Hi DanMacK
17:16:31  *** PolymorphZ is now known as z-MaTRiX
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17:58:54  <z-MaTRiX> ahaha
17:58:57  <z-MaTRiX> Keyboard_Warrior
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18:04:19  <Zuu> Hmm perhaps rename "realistic acceleration" as "semi-realistic acceleration" :-)
18:05:16  <Xaroth> then just name it
18:05:20  <Xaroth> "Different Acceleration". ..
18:05:48  <Alberth> euhm, a train with load goes slower than one without. How is that unrealistic?
18:06:26  <Xaroth> we don't mention the R word, remember ;)
18:16:34  <frosch123> call it "Community acceleration", everyone has to agree with that
18:17:18  <dihedral> what? is xiong around again?
18:17:28  <Rubidium> just call it "3", like TTDPatch does
18:17:32  <dihedral> regarding "everyone has to agree" :-P
18:18:03  <frosch123> good point, "Fred's acceleration" is also good
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18:18:40  <dihedral> LOL
18:18:43  *** theholyduck [~holyduck@] has joined #openttd
18:19:27  <planetmaker> :-D
18:19:46  <dihedral> he's probably got a highlight for that :-P
18:23:08  <Terkhen> :D
18:23:20  * Terkhen votes for Fred's acceleration too
18:24:29  <Alberth> please sign that you agree with the current realistic acceleration, before using this application :p
18:24:32  <Terkhen> I was thinking on "what's-its-name acceleration"
18:25:13  <dihedral> accelerate fred's ass? :-D
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18:34:33  <Zuu> Even in models used to model the reality, the sub models are usually not called "realistic XYZ model" :-)
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18:35:16  <dihedral> how about "Fred's Reality" :-P
18:35:28  <Zuu> But maybe that is because people in the industry want to make their name.
18:35:36  <planetmaker> Because engineers and scientists know that "realisme" is only a limit which never can be reached
18:35:48  <planetmaker> -e
18:36:26  <dihedral> the infinite limit?
18:37:26  <Zuu> planetmaker: Indeed
18:40:07  <planetmaker> dihedral: the limit may well be quite finite. But still not be reached
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18:45:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21546 /trunk/src/lang/ (czech.txt indonesian.txt lithuanian.txt):
18:45:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 65 changes by SmatZ
18:45:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: indonesian - 22 changes by fanioz
18:45:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 6 changes by BlinK_
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19:13:21  <DanMacK> Hey Andy
19:13:29  <andythenorth> evenings
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19:17:01  <planetmaker> moin andythenorth
19:17:14  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I can't replicate that FIRS issue with 1.0.5 and FIRS 0.5.5
19:17:24  <andythenorth> wonder if pikka has done anything odd in TAI?
19:17:32  <planetmaker> what are you talking about?
19:17:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r21547 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Add [FS#4318]: Tooltip describing the the behaviour of the shift key for several actions
19:17:55  <andythenorth> planetmaker: the bug reported in the FIRS thread today with steel mill (sorry)
19:18:05  <andythenorth> FIRS redefines default steel mill tile, maybe pikka also does something with that?
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19:18:17  <andythenorth> anyways, we'll see if he posts a savegame
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19:19:18  <planetmaker> hm. TAI. Might be.
19:19:36  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21548 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Code style, multi line statements should indent two tabs.
19:19:43  <planetmaker> If it only happens with TAI (Town and Industries - after all!) it will be caused by it
19:20:23  <planetmaker> just de-compile it and grep the nfo for "* 00 09 "
19:20:32  <planetmaker> then it defines industries and you know
19:20:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21549 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Unfold the _build_road_button_proc array into a switch.
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19:22:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21550 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Move the small static functions into the switch.
19:23:20  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21551 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Record the last started user action, and use that in the callback.
19:23:27  <planetmaker> hm, TAI does not
19:24:22  <planetmaker> oh. my grep is wrong
19:24:39  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21552 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Move short callback functions into the switch.
19:25:07  <planetmaker> but ... it doesn't change the result
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19:28:08  <planetmaker> But TAI defines cargo properties
19:31:21  <planetmaker> <-- andythenorth
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19:32:59  <andythenorth> changing certain cargo props would cause tile acceptance to fail
19:33:27  <planetmaker> hm. How do you reproduce that?
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19:34:16  <planetmaker> I tried in trunk, both tai 0.2 first, then FIRS and vice versa and the steel mill was fine.
19:34:43  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I haven't tested with TAI yet (doing other stuff) ;)
19:35:01  <planetmaker> didn't you say that you could reproduce it?
19:35:12  <andythenorth> I said I couldn't reproduce it ;)
19:35:18  <planetmaker> oh :-P
19:35:29  <planetmaker> well. I can't either
19:35:30  <andythenorth> :D
19:35:40  <planetmaker> also not with TaI
19:37:32  <planetmaker> so it's again a good proof of: if you have a problem: give straight away as much info as you can.
19:37:49  <planetmaker> (without babbling, though)
19:39:31  <planetmaker> andythenorth: simple: we need another newgrf check: experts hard industries
19:39:54  <andythenorth> that's the issue?
19:40:41  <andythenorth> bleargh
19:40:50  <andythenorth> well....I used to try mixing industry sets too
19:40:58  <planetmaker> he... no :-O
19:41:00  <andythenorth> I suppose it makes sense when you don't know how anything works
19:43:46  <planetmaker> hm, now. That sucks. Even with the exact same newgrf list it works for me
19:43:51  <planetmaker> with trunk
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19:46:20  <planetmaker> hm. Nice. It fails in 1.0.5 but works with trunk :-)
19:46:24  <planetmaker> why ever
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19:50:11  * Zuu finds a 12 lines long function in his C++ code that implements a "foreach" loop with one useful call inside the loop :-D
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19:50:40  <Zuu> I though I had some FOREACH defines in this project, but apparently not. :-)
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19:57:46  <DanMacK> WB
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19:59:22  <Terkhen> I was too scared of industry sets to use even a single one, why mix them? :P
20:01:35  *** fonsinchen [] has joined #openttd
20:01:35  * DanMacK usually uses PBI
20:01:53  <DanMacK> although FIRS on my current map would be insane
20:06:37  <Wolf01> :o
20:07:10  *** Fast2 [] has joined #openttd
20:07:31  <Terkhen> meh, yet another sale
20:08:10  <planetmaker> andythenorth: experts hard industries and FIRS are incompatible when using OpenTTD 1.0.5. It's fine for trunk
20:08:15  <planetmaker> I'll add a check
20:09:27  <andythenorth> thanks
20:10:17  <Wolf01> nice, resizing the game window caused a crash on the nvidia driver
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21:30:58  * andythenorth adventures in simutrans forums
21:31:08  *** X-2 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:32:26  <Terkhen> :O
21:34:35  <planetmaker> you know the first commandment: Thou must not have other TT-style games beside *TTD*
21:35:42  <andythenorth> yeah, but this is like a parallel universe for FIRS:
21:36:38  <Prof_Frink> 14.  And He gave the Game of Chris to his people and said:  "Take.  Play.  And don't make fun of the AI".
21:36:56  <SmatZ> hehe
21:37:11  *** jpx_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:37:14  <SmatZ> everyone was making fun of AI :p
21:37:59  * andythenorth ponders a simutrans project
21:38:21  <planetmaker> "The biggest problem with new chains is-- that we need someone to pain [sic!] them!" <--- :-D Does it hurt much?
21:38:37  *** Chillosophy [] has quit []
21:38:47  <andythenorth> it hurts :P
21:39:35  <Rubidium> hmm... just had an idea... just what was it?
21:40:42  <andythenorth> simutrans has articulated ships :P
21:41:19  <Rubidium> ah... yes. Adding game metadata to OpenTTD screenshots, like the OpenTTD version, used AIs and NewGRFs
21:42:15  <planetmaker> hm, extra line below with meta data?
21:42:31  * DanMacK has occasionally thought of trains for Simutrans
21:42:41  <Rubidium> no, more the png comment chunks
21:42:47  <planetmaker> ah
21:42:50  <planetmaker> makes sense
21:43:02  <planetmaker> png is nice wrt that
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21:43:25  <andythenorth> hmm
21:46:14  <DanMacK> :/  all rendered stuff...  lol
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21:49:59  <Zuu> The compile and continue feature in visual studio is really nice when trying out code that doesn't have a GUI yet. Like doing a time-dependent demand-function by adjusting the code sometimes. :-)
21:53:56  * SmatZ is once again happy he has NekoMaster in his "foes" list at tt-forums
21:55:11  * andythenorth likes neko
21:55:19  <andythenorth> but wonders if he drinks and types or something
21:55:41  <Terkhen> :D
21:55:45  <planetmaker> the foes list is so pointless :-)
21:55:56  <SmatZ> :)
21:56:00  <SmatZ> planetmaker: true :(
21:56:22  <SmatZ> but at least it makes me skip some silly comments
21:56:33  <SmatZ> but yes, then comments replying to them don't make sense
21:56:41  <planetmaker> well.... I mostly ignore his postings
21:56:48  <Terkhen> how many beers it takes to think that a single engine pulling 32 wagons makes sense?
21:56:56  <planetmaker> or rather don't bother much about most as many don't make much sense
21:56:57  <alvin_rxg> ritter.  RS148EM9  any german take it?
21:57:26  <planetmaker> Hm... 45 coal wagons are pulled here by two engines.
21:57:41  <SmatZ> Terkhen: I really have no clue about real trains...
21:57:43  <planetmaker> as a kid I used to count the wagons on those trains :-)
21:57:49  <SmatZ> hehe :)
21:57:51  <SmatZ> so did I
21:57:56  <planetmaker> when I was incidentially waiting on a level crossing
21:57:59  <SmatZ> but never counted how many engines are there...
21:58:00  <planetmaker> :-)
21:58:06  <planetmaker> well. One or two :-)
21:58:23  <planetmaker> The longer ones had mostly two
21:58:28  <V453000> SmatZ: because Czech Rails have no $ for more than 1 engine (if any) so there was not much to count :P
21:58:35  <SmatZ> :)
21:59:09  <Terkhen> neither do I :P
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22:00:43  <V453000> :D
22:00:50  <DanMacK> Single engine pulling 32 does make sense...  up here anyway :P
22:00:51  * SmatZ bought 60 Pilsners today, each for 16,90CZK (~0,66EUR)...
22:00:59  <SmatZ> hope they will stay till new year
22:01:10  <V453000> I thought till tomorrow
22:01:14  <SmatZ> :D
22:01:27  <V453000> 59 minutes .... hmm
22:01:35  <V453000> 1 beer per minute and you are still safe
22:01:38  <V453000> should work
22:01:40  <SmatZ> :D
22:03:09  <trebuchet> I saw a train engine pulling 40-50 carts behind it here IRL.
22:03:11  <trebuchet> :\
22:03:21  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
22:03:52  <Terkhen> :O 56 strings to validate again?
22:04:16  <SmatZ> Terkhen: not only validate, but also add "press shift to see cost estimation"
22:04:25  <SmatZ> I am leaving that to the other translators :p
22:05:08  * DanMacK has seen 60-80 auto cars behind a single CPR locomotive
22:05:32  <Zuu> All those dots were already quite many.
22:06:00  <Terkhen> this change seemed smaller as a diff file... :P
22:06:13  <SmatZ> Zuu: well, those were "[Next], click editbox, End, Backspace, [Save], [Next], ..."
22:06:30  <SmatZ> yeah, I wondered it's that many strings too :)
22:07:03  <Zuu> I'm stil on the strings where the ending dot was removed.
22:07:10  <SmatZ> :)
22:09:33  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
22:09:44  <planetmaker> :-)
22:09:51  * planetmaker luckily has done that already
22:10:45  <Zuu> Hmm someone has translated "production callback" as production system :-D
22:11:20  <Zuu> maybe not all that wrong for a user that has no clue, but perhaps not very helpfull for NewGRF developers.
22:11:42  <Terkhen> that string also made no sense in spanish
22:13:31  * Zuu have to figure out what a propper translation of callback is
22:14:13  <Zuu> hmm, maybe wikipedia have an idea.
22:16:08  <Zuu> would it be wrong to translate callback into "function"?
22:16:20  <Zuu> can NewGRFs have functions that are not callback functions?
22:18:14  <SmatZ> it's translated as "callback" in czech :p
22:18:18  <Terkhen> I translated it as function; I could not find something with the same meaning than "callback"
22:18:29  <SmatZ> that makes most sense to newgrf developers
22:18:38  <SmatZ> and regular players wouldn't understand it anyway
22:18:59  <Zuu> I translated it as "callback function" to give a clue to those not familar with callbacks but also not to confuse the NewGRF devs too much.
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22:19:44  <Zuu> But after having done all dots I might take a look and decide what to do for all callback strincgs.
22:21:16  <Zuu> Hmm someone translated "New" in NewGRF :-D
22:21:34  <planetmaker> :-D
22:22:04  <planetmaker> I'd not translate 'callback'
22:25:28  <Zuu> I can't recall any Swedish counterpart of callback that has the same meaning when it comes to programming.
22:27:14  <Zuu> Is "Action 8" a function or a symbol?
22:30:06  <planetmaker> it's a syntax so-to-say
22:30:37  <planetmaker> it's the place where the newgrf is defined, given its name, version, newgrf-version following etc
22:32:26  <Zuu> Ok. The english version used ".. multiple Action 8 entries" which I ended up translating into "multipla Action 8".
22:32:45  <planetmaker> no newgrf without action8. No NoAI without AIInfo
22:33:17  <planetmaker> that looks ok as far as my Swedish goes ;-)
22:33:23  <Zuu> hehe :-)
22:34:06  <Zuu> I first tried to translate entries but without any knowledge of NewGRF I can't substitute "entries" with a word that exist and is not wrong.
22:34:49  <planetmaker> nfo is written in sprites. it's like single code lines. Not a function. But not a symbol either
22:35:01  <planetmaker> just statements
22:36:31  <Terkhen> good night
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22:46:38  <Zuu> Oh, here catenary has been translated into a "chain bridge" :-)
22:47:14  <planetmaker> :-D
22:47:16  <SmatZ> :D
22:47:35  <Rubidium> that'll be a noisy way to power your trains
22:47:45  <Rubidium> all that rattling of the chains when a train passes and such
22:48:11  <SmatZ> :)
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22:54:39  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21553 /trunk/src/screenshot.cpp: -Feature-ish: store the used OpenTTD version, NewGRFs and AIs in the screenshot file
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22:57:14  <Zuu> Oh, we have diagonal landscaping in trunk :-)
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22:57:52  <Wolf01> :o really?
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22:58:09  <Zuu> At least according to the web translator.
22:58:22  <Wolf01> ah :D
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23:00:24  <SmatZ> it's only in translations for some reason
23:00:31  <SmatZ> the feature is planned for 1.2
23:00:57  <planetmaker> :-P
23:01:12  <SmatZ> :)
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23:24:17  <Zuu> STR_ORDERS_GO_TO_TOOLTIP: {BLACK}Insert a new order before the highlighted order, or add to end of list. Ctrl makes station orders 'full load any cargo', waypoint orders 'non-stop' and depot orders 'service'. 'Share orders' or Ctrl lets this vehicle share orders with the selected vehicle. Clicking a vehicle copies the orders from that vehicle
23:24:31  <Zuu> <-- the last two sentences does not make sense to me.
23:24:56  <Zuu> Why does they sit on the GoTo button?
23:27:50  <Zuu> hmm, now I see what it wants to say.
23:28:02  <Zuu> Just way too much information to read quick :-)
23:30:23  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the difference between a white cow and a black cow?
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23:30:41  <Eddi|zuHause> a white cow says "moo"
23:30:50  <Eddi|zuHause> and a black cow says "yo man, moo man!"
23:33:57  <DanMacK> Latera ll
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23:47:28  <Zuu_> Hmm, my cellphone is at work => someone early at work will have fun when my morning alarm sets off :-)
23:47:48  <Xaroth> heh
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