Log for #openttd on 30th January 2011:
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00:46:55  <DoubleYou> hey all, i was wondering, did the 2cc trainset rename or is it just gone from the newgrf online content delivery system?
00:47:41  <DoubleYou> when i look for 2cc i get the chiameara addon, subway and 'generic european set'
00:48:02  <DoubleYou> but the eu set doesn't have cargo wagons for FIRs, as the forum topic mentions
00:50:54  <Ammler> DoubleYou: which openttd version?
00:51:40  <DoubleYou> i'm running 1.0.5
00:52:33  <DoubleYou> is there maybe another cargo set which is recommended for FIRs?
00:52:44  <Ammler> ukrs
00:52:59  <DoubleYou> I got the HEQS but that's road and tram only :)
00:53:16  <Ammler> you can use multiple set at once
00:53:35  <DoubleYou> i know, that's why I needed another one for trains
00:54:33  <Ammler> or use beta4, there you have 2cctrainset
00:55:30  <Eddi|zuHause> you should really play FIRS with the beta, alone for the production chain display ;)
00:56:42  <Ammler> indeed
00:57:13  <Eddi|zuHause> and the issue with no 2cc set for 1.0.5 you should report in the 2cc thread in the forum
00:58:24  <Ammler> well, with 1.0.5, you might get only 2cc 1.0
00:58:37  <DoubleYou> production chain display? i might just go for the beta 4 then :)
00:58:38  <Ammler> but you should also use 2cc 2beta
00:58:47  <Eddi|zuHause> well, true. but it should still be downloadable at all
00:59:26  <Ammler> DJNekkid: you need to rise max version for 2cc 1.0 :-)
01:00:39  <DoubleYou> hehe
01:00:51  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 40*5*60*60/1024
01:00:51  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 703.125
01:00:54  <DoubleYou> is there a readup on the forums about that production chain display?
01:01:46  <Eddi|zuHause> there might be a wiki page
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01:05:02  <DoubleYou> i can only find mentions about it, not a preview screenshot
01:05:08  <DoubleYou> would it be something like this?
01:06:35  <Ammler> yes, just ingame
01:06:44  <DoubleYou> sweet
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01:09:21  <z-MaTRiX_> i remember the chains in game...
01:09:49  <z-MaTRiX_> ahah
01:09:53  <z-MaTRiX_> train running costs
01:10:09  <z-MaTRiX_> -40M euros in 2203
01:10:23  <z-MaTRiX_> train income +75M
01:10:55  <z-MaTRiX_> but earned many billion euros
01:12:37  <z-MaTRiX_> admiralai freaked out <;
01:12:49  <DoubleYou> i just downloaded and started beta4, but how do you get the industry chain display then?
01:13:33  <Eddi|zuHause> click on an industry
01:13:42  <z-MaTRiX_> ever tried clock on an industry? :)
01:13:57  <z-MaTRiX_> hehe
01:14:29  <DoubleYou> heh. i expected a whole list for all industries like that pdf :)
01:14:45  <DoubleYou> but that's more logical and easier :)
01:14:57  <z-MaTRiX_> whats the bad in you click on it and see the list?
01:15:21  <z-MaTRiX_> dont have to search a pdf
01:15:57  <DoubleYou> wow that's pretty neat function
01:16:03  <DoubleYou> it's clickable and all
01:16:15  <DoubleYou> kudos to the creator
01:16:29  <Eddi|zuHause> there's also the "show in map" button ;)
01:17:59  <DoubleYou> yes exactly
01:18:19  <DoubleYou> might i recommend a feature? :) hehe
01:18:24  <DoubleYou> don't know where to do that
01:19:08  <DoubleYou> on all buttons a right click shows the help - i suggest also that for the help in that screen instead of waiting for a long hover
01:19:31  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a setting
01:19:40  <DoubleYou> i'm thinking too fast...
01:19:46  <Eddi|zuHause> advanced settings -> interface -> hover for popup
01:19:58  <Eddi|zuHause> set to 0 to get the right-click behaviour back
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01:21:19  <DoubleYou> yes i found it, thanks!
01:21:51  <DoubleYou> after 3 years of too busy study finally found time to play it again
01:21:58  <Eddi|zuHause> before you suggest any more features, i suggest you read the changelog ;)
01:22:06  <DoubleYou> have been playing the game since 1994 :)
01:22:08  <DoubleYou> hehe thanks
01:22:10  <DoubleYou> yes
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01:24:52  <DoubleYou> hm, then this is a bug? the help text doesn't display anymore in the chain when set to right click hehe
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01:34:08  <Eddi|zuHause> which help text isn't showing that was showing before?
01:35:39  <DoubleYou> for example, if you show the chain for coal (and I'm using FIRs) then it can go to a lime kiln, but also stone goes there, so the lime kiln shows a not-connected 'stone' entry which you can click on
01:35:59  <DoubleYou> hovering on it shows 'stone click to see the industry chain' etc
01:36:15  <DoubleYou> but with the help set to right click, that doesn't show anymore'
01:36:25  <DoubleYou> just like any other hover text in the industry chain panel
01:36:40  <Eddi|zuHause> interesting. that might indeed be a bug
01:36:51  <Eddi|zuHause> report at
01:37:11  <Rubidium> "click to see the industry chain" sounds like a tooltip
01:37:31  <Rubidium> given you changed the tooltips to be shown on right click instead of hovering...
01:37:46  <Rubidium> ... it not showing when hovering is the right behaviour
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01:39:26  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but the tooltip doesn't seem to show up on right clicking either
01:43:20  <Rubidium> then file a bug report
01:43:45  <DJNekkid> Ammler: any suggestion to what?
01:44:04  <DJNekkid> Ammler: the-rev-before-1.1.0-beta1 ?
01:44:36  <DoubleYou> i'm trying to register my username, waiting for the validation email to arrive...
01:45:17  <Ammler> dj release 1.0.F :-)
01:45:41  <Ammler> or however that works :-)
01:45:43  <Rubidium> DoubleYou: yeah, that can take a while (sometimes hours) thanks to the "lovely" spammers
01:47:08  <DoubleYou> okay let's play further for a while then. i thought i also saw a sprite but (at least, it looks very strange)
01:47:15  <DoubleYou> *bug
01:49:53  <DoubleYou> don't know if this is really a bug, or just supposed to be like this:
01:50:04  <DoubleYou> difficult to otherwise fix, i suppose?
01:50:23  <Eddi|zuHause> that's supposed to be like this
01:50:51  <DoubleYou> ok :)
01:50:51  <Eddi|zuHause> it's less apparent with the default grfs
01:51:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean the original one
01:51:20  <DoubleYou> yes in the original ones you didn't really had a beach
01:52:36  <Eddi|zuHause> might be possible to implement that these "corners" get flooded as well, all the way to the end
01:52:53  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if it's worth doing though...
01:59:12  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is r21513 too old or did FIRS not yet implement genders for industries?
02:00:14  <Eddi|zuHause> how are genders specified in grfs?
02:01:07  <devilsadvocate> 'genders' for industries?
02:02:16  <Eddi|zuHause> devilsadvocate: the news message "new <industry> founded at X" must respect gender of <industry> to transform "new" into the right form (in some languages)
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02:11:29  <z-MaTRiX_> faster, harder, scooter
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02:26:28  <Eddi|zuHause> damn, even with the increased payment rates, i'm still about 600 bucks off per month :(
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02:38:13  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... somehow my FIRS patch for genders didn't seem to work
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03:00:30  <Eddi|zuHause> why does there never open a new industry when you need one ;)
03:04:36  <Eddi|zuHause> where's andythenorth when you need him?
03:06:31  <__ln__> and why indeed is it so silent here at 4 am CET?
03:09:19  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway... anyone point him to
03:09:30  <Eddi|zuHause> seems to work ;)
03:11:18  <Eddi|zuHause> (might need slight cleaning up)
03:12:40  <__ln__> fourth gender
03:12:59  <__ln__> non-countable i presume
03:13:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's for plural
03:13:26  <Eddi|zuHause> hence "p" ;)
03:14:34  <__ln__> clever
03:14:56  <Eddi|zuHause> it was my idea, about two years ago or so ;)
03:16:01  <Eddi|zuHause> in plural, there is no syntactical difference between male/female/neutral anymore, so only one plural gender is needed
03:18:35  <__ln__> oh, a serious train accident in germany
03:21:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i heard
03:22:30  <Eddi|zuHause> about 10 dead. reason unknown. double track section at a single track line, passenger train hit a freight train
03:24:31  <Eddi|zuHause> neither train owned by the DB
03:26:17  <__ln__> the (other) lokfÃŒhrer being killed suggests it wasn't at least the same kind of derailing as last summer
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08:08:54  <andythenorth> morneeng
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08:42:35  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: flooding those will destroy a lot of infrastructure in current savegames
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08:55:53  <Terkhen> good morning
08:56:29  <andythenorth> hi Terkhen
09:00:53  <planetmaker> moin
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09:07:14  <Wolf01> hello
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10:00:25  <andythenorth> currently FIRS can build n fishing harbours per town
10:00:33  <andythenorth> and often builds more than 1 at map gen
10:00:37  <andythenorth> this looks good
10:00:41  <andythenorth> but is it wise?
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10:24:11  <Terkhen> andythenorth: I don't know if they have changed, but a few months ago I had to retry many times to get a single fishing harbour in a 256x256 map
10:24:22  <andythenorth> interestink
10:24:32  <andythenorth> that might be about to get worse :P
10:24:46  <andythenorth> do you remember what sea level setting?
10:25:37  <Terkhen> it was probably 33% or something near that
10:26:30  <andythenorth> actually, thinking about it, it's more likely you didn't have any coastal towns with correct land shape
10:27:49  <Terkhen> I usually don't set many towns
10:28:13  <andythenorth> fishing harbour is town only
10:28:16  <andythenorth> that looks good
10:28:19  <andythenorth> but sucks for gameplay :P
10:28:24  <andythenorth> because the food is already in town :
10:28:25  <andythenorth> :P
10:29:20  <Terkhen> it fits nicely in subartic, where the towns that need food are usually far from the coast
10:29:50  <andythenorth> I shall leave it be then
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10:43:17  <ZirconiumX> hello guys and/or gals
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11:36:55  <planetmaker> hm... total savegames and screenshots of the competition are already 100 MB... takes its time uploading ;-)
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11:38:10  <Terkhen> :)
11:38:31  <planetmaker> but now finally also web page is written automatically ;-)
11:38:49  <planetmaker> just ./create_webpage and then upload...
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11:39:29  <Terkhen> that's nice :)
11:40:09  <Terkhen> I should also do a script to profile automatically, it would save me much time
11:43:43  <planetmaker> :-) yeah. If it is just loading a save and letting it run with different openttds, it's a not very long one...
11:44:53  <planetmaker> <-- that's what I use to create the pngs; it's Rb's one from last year with a slight mod
11:45:06  <frosch123> afternoon everyone
11:45:18  <planetmaker> quak :-)
11:45:24  <frosch123> moin :p
11:48:41  <Terkhen> hi frosch123, thank you for finding those w :)
11:49:00  <frosch123> i think i stared more than 5 minutes on those lines :p
11:50:19  <Terkhen> I stared at the diff for 10 minutes or so, thinking "I don't see a difference"
11:50:23  <Terkhen> before going to bed :)
11:51:09  <Terkhen> hmm... I wonder why the method I used for checking crash.dmp files does not work on MSVC 2010
11:51:55  * andythenorth should go on a FIRS r2k adventure
11:52:03  <andythenorth> currently at r1643
11:52:09  <andythenorth> but first....lunch!
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11:55:36  <Terkhen> oh, got it working now :)
11:56:13  <frosch123> are you checking the duplicates?
11:56:45  <Terkhen> FS#4452 is a duplicate, yes
11:57:17  <Terkhen> I don't see any further tasks that could be a duplicate
11:57:42  <frosch123> 4451 is a duplicate of something else
11:58:32  <Terkhen> yes, I remember that assertion
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12:34:12  <planetmaker> <-- new overview of current submissions to the titlegame competition
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12:47:48  <frosch123> is that zoomed-out one really meant to be zoomed out?
12:48:11  <Zuu> Also not all screenshots seem to have got generated for 2560x1600.
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12:56:07  <Zuu> planetmaker: Typo on the website s/UT/UTC/
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12:56:49  <planetmaker> Not at all. I'll pay attention to those 23 seconds or so ;-)
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12:58:41  <mib_wld66r> Hi guys ;)
12:59:01  <Alberth> hi
12:59:17  <planetmaker> But fixed for the next version, Zuu :-)
12:59:17  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: alberth * r21927 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Change: Comment-style fixes.
12:59:24  <planetmaker> hi mib_wld66r
13:00:30  <mib_wld66r> I need some help installing openTTD on a mac, think anyone can take a bit of time to just smooth me through the process, I ain't the best computer viz to put it like that :P
13:02:21  <mib_wld66r> I just remember playing it many many years ago, it was such a great game! Need to have something to do at college :P
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13:05:00  <Eddi|zuHause> argh... i missed andythenorth again...
13:05:16  <perk11> mib_wld66r:
13:05:27  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: any ideas about
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13:05:55  <mib_wld66r> Thanks Perk11 ;)
13:06:29  <planetmaker> mib_wld66r: better get an official binary of the latest 1.1.0-beta4
13:06:30  <Eddi|zuHause> mib_wld66r: don't use that. it's horribly outdated
13:06:31  <planetmaker> mib_wld66r: better get an official binary of the latest 1.1.0-beta5
13:06:48  <planetmaker> perk11: please better give official links. Thank you.
13:07:02  <planetmaker> A lot of things were fixed since
13:07:14  <perk11> planetmaker: well, there wasn't one for 1.05
13:07:26  <planetmaker> and there won't be
13:07:27  <perk11> and 1.1.0 is still beta
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13:08:06  <ABCRic> perk11: it's stable enough for playing
13:08:07  <planetmaker> but he didn't ask for 1.0.5.
13:08:08  <Eddi|zuHause> perk11: if you think "beta" is worse than "custom, completely unsupported"
13:09:12  <Eddi|zuHause> mib_wld66r: anyway, should give you everything you need
13:09:29  <mib_wld66r> Thanks ;)
13:10:02  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: looks fine for what I can tell and without testing it. I assume you did?
13:10:22  <perk11> "Feature: After building a road or tram bridge/tunnel, connect it to any existing road or tram" I don't understansd, what is this?
13:10:28  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i compiled it and waited for at least one industry to create
13:11:09  <Eddi|zuHause> perk11: i guess like building station or depot, it creates a halftile connection on the adjacent tile, if it's not already there
13:11:16  <perk11> oh
13:11:18  <planetmaker> ^
13:11:22  <perk11> should give it a try
13:12:00  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: but your diff does not seem to be in UTF-8, can that be?
13:12:12  <planetmaker> or is it my browser which messes it up?
13:12:12  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it should be, why?
13:12:52  <planetmaker> sorry, yes, it's my browser
13:13:27  <planetmaker> or rather the mimi-type plug-in which allows to display everything, if desired ;-)
13:14:10  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: possibly "Fisch" should be renamed to "Fische". it's not "uncountable, singular" like in english ;)
13:17:43  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and "Depot" [in the station names] might rather be "Lager"?
13:18:31  <Terkhen> interesting diff :)
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13:19:08  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: Depot->Lager: yes
13:19:15  <planetmaker> With Fisch->Fische I'm not sure
13:19:34  <planetmaker> You only use the plural form, if you really count single fish
13:19:50  <planetmaker> Which you in this scale don't ;-)
13:20:04  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... if you say so ;)
13:20:18  <Terkhen> wouldn't this make FIRS not compatible with 1.0.5?
13:22:00  <ABCRic> Terkhen: 1.1 will be out anytime soon ;)
13:22:02  <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: i don't know, but i would presume it'll just ignore the unknown characters
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13:22:56  <planetmaker> ABCRic: not before we also had some release candidates
13:23:12  <ABCRic> :P
13:23:25  <planetmaker> Terkhen: that'd not be the most serious constraint, I think
13:23:27  <planetmaker> ;-)
13:23:36  <planetmaker> it's using other non-1.0.x stuff, too
13:23:43  <Terkhen> I don't really mind since I always play with trunk, but it would be good to know if it does before uploading any new versions to bananas
13:23:44  <Terkhen> okay :)
13:24:12  <planetmaker> but it works so far, though less nicely wrt placement etc. So testing should be done in a quick way :-)
13:26:04  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: google war: "Tonne(n) Fisch": 2420 (38000) vs. "Tonne(n) Fische": 420 (5400)
13:26:07  <Eddi|zuHause> what i don't understand in the above diff is the difference in the line "//Fish"
13:26:41  <Eddi|zuHause> to me it doesn't look changed at all...
13:26:47  <Eddi|zuHause> or is there line ending weirdness?
13:27:08  <planetmaker> you corrected trailing white space
13:27:12  <Terkhen> the first one has a space after Fish, the second one does not
13:27:24  <Eddi|zuHause> interesting ;)
13:27:37  <Terkhen> the original translation has spaces at the end of most strings, I don't know why
13:27:53  <planetmaker> :-P
13:30:25  <Eddi|zuHause> added "Lager" to it:
13:33:18  <planetmaker> the script to check for language updates would profit from gloabally identify-able constituents of the gender define
13:33:48  <Terkhen> planetmaker: what do you mean?
13:33:49  <planetmaker> e.g. try to run from the scripts directory 02
13:33:50  <frosch123> "Fische" is a piece cargo like livestock, "Fisch" is bulk
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13:34:43  <planetmaker> Terkhen: with the patch you'll always get the gender definitions as not-needed strings
13:34:50  <Terkhen> oh :)
13:35:02  <planetmaker> it could be filtered out if every such define would e.g. start with GENDER_
13:35:26  <planetmaker> or something else which is somewhat uniq
13:35:35  <Terkhen> yes, if we agree on a common identificator ignoring them on the script should be trivial
13:35:38  <Terkhen> GENDER_ seems fine
13:36:34  <planetmaker> ok
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13:40:08  <planetmaker> let's install that modified FIRS version and test 1.0.5
13:43:08  <planetmaker> hm, doesn't build, though
13:47:35  <planetmaker> does it actually build for you, Eddi|zuHause ?
13:47:46  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, yes
13:48:00  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the problem?
13:48:24  <planetmaker>  //!!Invalid character: "M". //    0 * 0	 04 0B 82 01 01 DC C3 9E M "Rohrzucker" 00
13:48:37  <planetmaker> and similar
13:48:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that's weird
13:49:15  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe your preprocessor works differently?
13:49:47  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: remove the #undef lines from the end?
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13:50:54  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i have a feeling the firs build system doesn't handle dependencies correctly
13:51:19  <planetmaker> that may be. But that does not explain an error as such
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13:51:34  <planetmaker> removing the #undef funnily has the desired result
13:51:42  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it kinda does
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13:55:16  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: it does not explain the gcc to fail preprocessing it properly as that should work independent of what make considers a dependency.
13:55:31  <planetmaker> gcc knows nothing about those deps
13:55:45  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: no, but it explains why it built for me after adding these undefs
13:55:58  <Eddi|zuHause> because it actually never processed them.
13:56:38  <planetmaker> ah. I think they need adding in remove_defines.pnfo
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13:58:51  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a bad plan, because they're kinda very language dependent
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14:00:28  <planetmaker> Well, every language would have to add theirs there, yes
14:01:16  <Eddi|zuHause> better add a <language>_cleanup.pnfo?
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14:05:06  <planetmaker> well. But that'd remove the one cleanup for all languages
14:05:12  <planetmaker> as we have now
14:05:42  <planetmaker> hm... sugar cane != Zucker
14:08:10  <Eddi|zuHause> well _I_ didn't do the translation :p
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14:13:58  <planetmaker> I don't think one can include a file which is given by a #define SOME_FILE_DEFINED - or?
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14:19:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so
14:21:30  <planetmaker> a test showed that it doesn't work ;-)
14:21:38  <planetmaker> and the manual seems to confirm
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14:25:47  <Eddi|zuHause> what would be really useful is a "greedy" replacement of the M/W/... within the defines in german.pnfo
14:27:18  <planetmaker> hm?
14:27:29  <planetmaker> I replaced " M " and was done
14:27:33  <planetmaker> same with the other 3
14:27:43  <planetmaker> it just leaves the undefine
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14:29:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean currently it works like this: Àdefine M, #define STR_BLAH M "blah", enter generic lang, use STR_BLAH -> M "blah". use M -> "gender blah"
14:30:43  <Eddi|zuHause> it would be better if it was: #define M, #define STR_BLAH M "blah", use M -> #define STR_BLAH "gender blah", enter generic lang, use STR_BLAH -> "gender blah"
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14:31:00  <Eddi|zuHause> then M doesn't need to be defined outside of german at all
14:31:16  <planetmaker> well. I'll go for the cleanup files
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14:52:06  <planetmaker> there you go, Eddi|zuHause, update your FIRS repo ;-)
14:52:20  <planetmaker> and I totally forgot to test 1.0.5 compatibility
14:52:31  <Eddi|zuHause> haha :)
14:57:13  <Terkhen> :)
14:57:36  <Terkhen> I will prepare a similar update for spanish
15:00:56  <planetmaker> don't forget to add a separate cleanup file - though it doesn't complain without ;-)
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15:08:02  <planetmaker> great. Usage of deprecated functions in libpng 1.4
15:08:25  <planetmaker> I don't recall seeing that with 1.2
15:09:51  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the functions might not have been deprecated yet in 1.2 :p
15:12:04  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: but my system didn't change. So they introduced them between 1.2 and 1.4
15:14:05  <planetmaker> hm. My FIRS is not compatible with 1.0.5. Unknown action0 property
15:15:20  <Eddi|zuHause> it really errors out on that?
15:15:37  <Eddi|zuHause> might need an action7/9 around the gender translation table then
15:15:37  <planetmaker> yes
15:15:46  <planetmaker> maybe. I'll see
15:16:28  <planetmaker> [grf] [firs/firs.grf:320] ReserveChangeInfo: Unknown property 0x13 of feature 0x08, disabling
15:17:11  <planetmaker> hm, yes
15:17:22  <planetmaker> that's the gender translation table
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15:28:04  <Puddles> Hi guys, it's me with the installment problems from earlier again, I have some problems getting the trainstation to accept resources... Any thoughts?
15:28:44  <Terkhen> explain your problem in more detail, please
15:31:11  <Puddles> I just started playing the game now, and I am having problems getting the train station to accept the fact that there is a maize factory right by it...
15:31:26  <perk11> can anyone here remove grfs from the bananas?
15:34:20  <ABCRic> Puddles: before placing the station, check what it accepts by looking at the station windows
15:36:19  <Puddles> Did that, said it accepts maize, but after it has been placed it no longer accepts it... Is this a known bug for the mac version?
15:36:55  <Ammler> perk11: you should mail rubi (web->contact) and mention the point of tos it violates
15:37:15  <perk11> Ammler: ok, thank you, it
15:37:26  <Alberth> Puddles no, can you supply a picture or save game?
15:37:27  <perk11> *it's requested to remove in descriptiom
15:37:34  <Ammler> if it is yours, just hide it with version information
15:37:53  <Alberth> perk11: devs don't read the descriptions
15:38:06  <perk11> it's not mine
15:38:16  <Puddles> ABCric: got it to work on a different station, I probably missed something, I'll try again :P Thanks though!
15:38:42  <planetmaker> hm.... also skipping the feature 08, property 13 does not quite give nice strings
15:41:03  <Alberth> perk11: why don't you ask the author?
15:42:47  <Alberth> ie removing a newgrf just because someone mails is not really ideal, unless you have proof of some license problem or it got uploaded by someone else than the author.
15:42:53  <perk11> Alberth:
15:43:04  <perk11> see the description
15:43:48  <Alberth> but not everybody uses OpenGFX+ Trains, do they?
15:44:06  <perk11> idk
15:44:34  <perk11> but I think the author wanted to remove it, but didn't know how to do it
15:44:38  <Ammler> perk11: and why does such a grf violate tos?
15:44:58  <perk11> Ammler: I didn't say it violates
15:45:02  <Ammler> just set max version to 0 and it will go
15:45:19  <Ammler> then it is impossible to delete it
15:45:41  <Alberth> probably, but the author should fix it (and even then I am not convinced it should be removed due to old savegames)
15:45:45  <Ammler> (maybe 0 means no limit, so 1 is better :-)
15:45:56  <Alberth> Ammler: that will kill old save games, wouldn't it?
15:46:02  <Ammler> Alberth: no
15:46:22  <Alberth> ok, then it's fine :)
15:46:27  <Ammler> the version restriction do only affect download without md5sum
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15:47:23  <perk11> so how do I contact the author?
15:48:26  <Ammler> perk11: easiest might be mail via tt-forums
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16:11:25  <planetmaker> what's the problem with the bauxite wagon? Are you sure it's not the author who uploaded it himself?
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16:15:06  <Alberth> there is a description requesting it to be removed:
16:20:54  <planetmaker> well. It just says that one should use OpenGFX+Trains instead. The author (oberhumer) should just make it unavailable and be done
16:21:12  <planetmaker> unavailable as in set the max version to something very low
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16:56:46  <planetmaker> <-- lool :-)
16:57:14  <planetmaker> showing holywood movie material to show the effectiveness of current fighter aircraft
16:57:48  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the chinese are known to rip _anything_ off :p
17:00:02  <heffer> geez. what is it that the chinese think they can get through with this?
17:00:25  <heffer> it's not like the whole world is frowning at them already...
17:00:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly certain you'll find examples of FOX News doing exactly the same thing :p
17:00:51  <__ln__> heffer: they own half the world
17:01:36  <planetmaker> I'd not hold a bet against that, Eddi|zuHause :-)
17:01:51  <heffer> __ln__: if i'd own half the world i'd try to be more serious
17:02:37  <heffer> i like to think of it as a kind of satire
17:02:58  <heffer> well actually it's on the border to comedy
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17:12:53  <frosch123> planetmaker: actually, during my service we saw the intro of james ryan to learn the strength of machine guns and flame throwers
17:15:12  <planetmaker> he, well. That might be something else; there's a difference between a somewhat documentary used for instruction purposes and a showing a move clip broadcasted as part of the actual news you try to deliver
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17:30:01  <wargh> Good eavning. I'd like the random generator to make maps even more "mountanious" and with more water than the GUI allows me to do. Is there any way I can make this happen? I.e. I want less land that in form of steep islands with more distance to nearby land.
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17:30:47  <planetmaker> design by hand in the scenario editor or play more with the settings, wargh
17:30:49  <Eddi|zuHause> wargh: the relevant code is in src/tgp.cpp
17:31:00  <planetmaker> like 0% land is quite few land
17:31:09  <planetmaker> and that can even be done in the GUI
17:31:10  <Eddi|zuHause> wargh: or open an image editor and paint a greyscale-heightmap
17:31:33  <Terkhen> you can also try geogen
17:34:38  <Terkhen> hmm... the map scrolls way too much for me on linux
17:37:04  <wargh> By hand is out of the question as I preffer the map to be randomly generated. And I think I can't get any furhter with the GUI settings. I can't find tgp.ccp with search.
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17:38:11  <Terkhen> wargh: which version are you using?
17:38:22  <wargh> sStable download
17:38:56  <Ammler> that is like "latest" :-)
17:39:18  <wargh> I didn't know if he was maybe counting the different betas =)
17:39:23  <wargh> Or Nightly
17:39:24  <Terkhen> wargh: <-- you might want to give the beta a try, there you can customize the water level to get even more water in a scenario
17:41:01  <wargh> Ok. As it is now in the stable version I would be happy if I could just raise seawater with one more lvl and the maps to be just a tad more mountaious. I think the very settings aren't really very.
17:41:28  <wargh> But I guess it all comes down to personal prefernace
17:42:40  <Alberth>
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17:51:36  <wargh> Thanks for the help, might just try out the beta then.
17:52:48  <wargh> And just a little shoutout. Thank you to all that put time and effort into this project.
17:52:53  <Terkhen> you are welcome
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18:06:21  <wargh> Hehe, I just noticed that I can't make smoke from a power station transparent so I can't see how the signal on my track is placed.
18:06:49  *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@] has joined #openttd
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18:08:12  <DanMacK> Hey all
18:10:04  <Terkhen> hi DanMacK
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18:25:28  <andythenorth> evaning
18:25:54  <Terkhen> hi andythenorth
18:27:53  <Alberth> hi andy
18:30:22  <planetmaker> !ydna ollah
18:31:04  <Eddi|zuHause> it takes a long time to teach your brain to not try to read that as a bot command :p
18:31:18  <planetmaker> ;-)
18:32:11  <andythenorth> planetmaker: the incompatibility with 1.0.x is not a problem
18:32:30  <andythenorth> did you / will you update readme and changelog?
18:33:16  <planetmaker> I looked at the readme and only found one place mentioning explicitly the version - which I changed. Or I missed others
18:33:25  <andythenorth> ok
18:33:26  <planetmaker> changelog is for before a release
18:33:28  <planetmaker> ;-)
18:33:40  <andythenorth> true
18:33:49  <andythenorth> sometimes I start changelogs in advance, but not often
18:35:40  * andythenorth has increasingly less patience with stupid suggestions
18:35:59  * DanMacK is definitely sick of stupidity
18:36:24  <Terkhen> heh, which one
18:36:25  <Terkhen> ?
18:36:54  <andythenorth> I usually have patience (some natural, some because I make my own stupid suggestions)
18:37:20  <andythenorth> the newgrf suggestion by muzzly
18:37:42  <andythenorth> is the most epic piece of stupidity I've seen in a suggestion for some time
18:38:32  <Alberth> the 'become driver' was less stupid?
18:38:48  <andythenorth> that patch exists somewhere :P
18:39:00  <Terkhen> in the Big Sets AND Single Items thread? his post is quite rude too
18:39:15  <andythenorth> rude I overlook for anyone who's not native english
18:39:32  <andythenorth> tbh many of the native english speakers are worse - they actually intend to be rude
18:39:38  <andythenorth> hence why I never go in #tycoon
18:40:17  <andythenorth> "Amount of sprites inside newgrf file is also limited because of compatibility with TTDP."
18:40:23  <andythenorth> ^ is that true?
18:40:33  <Terkhen> Hello, I am playing openttd not TTDP :D <-- you can't really blame this on not knowing the language well
18:40:42  <Terkhen> hmm... I have never been to that channel
18:41:12  <Illegal_Alien> I am never rude, ow wait...
18:42:11  <Alberth> he seems to be posting in the wrong forum :)
18:42:34  <andythenorth> is there a forum for 'idiocy' :P
18:43:03  <frosch123> andythenorth: ttdp has a limit for realsprites (not counting pseudo sprites)
18:43:09  <andythenorth> stupid, badly conceived, non-implementable suggestions for a bunch of problems that don't exist
18:43:19  <andythenorth> hmm
18:43:29  <Terkhen> andythenorth: just ignore them
18:43:56  * andythenorth has clearly drunk too much coffee
18:44:09  <andythenorth> only 349 FIRS commits needed for r2k
18:44:10  <andythenorth> :P
18:44:52  <Terkhen> :)
18:45:30  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: translators * r21928 /trunk/src/lang/portuguese.txt:
18:45:30  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:30  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: portuguese - 5 changes by JayCity
18:45:40  <Terkhen> if you implement every stupid suggestion you will get there in no time at all!
18:45:58  <andythenorth> FIRS doesn't have too many dumb suggestions :)
18:46:11  <andythenorth> but there are a lot of contradictory requests :)
18:46:24  <andythenorth> driving the train suggestion isn't so bad
18:46:44  <andythenorth> sometimes it would be nice to force a train to go to a specific point
18:47:07  <andythenorth> basically, 'try and get to this tile XY location (assuming it's a valid track type etc)
18:48:21  <Terkhen> you can achieve that with a waypoint
18:48:35  <andythenorth> true
18:48:40  <andythenorth> and inserting an extra order
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19:02:30  <Alberth> you will need a few for new string translations :)
19:12:28  * andythenorth decides *not* to animate the little trucks in FIRS quarries
19:14:18  <planetmaker> Alberth: FIRS most of all needs an updated Dutch translation. Taking proper care of the genders ;-)
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19:15:01  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r21929 /trunk/src/ (terraform_gui.cpp town_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#4554]: The town window would not be invalidated in the scenario editor if the ground changed and thus the required cargos for town growth
19:17:08  <DanMacK> Were's your sense of adventure Andy?  Don't want animation?  :P
19:17:32  <Alberth> he wants a co-adventurer, I think :)
19:18:01  <planetmaker> He, who doesn't?
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19:18:47  <andythenorth> I don't want to animate trucks driving, turning, loading, unloading across about 6 tiles, for at least three different layouts
19:18:55  <andythenorth> with at least 2, maybe 4 generations of truck
19:19:17  <Alberth> better make a conveyor belt :p
19:19:30  <andythenorth> indeed
19:19:45  <andythenorth> original sprites used a conveyor belt
19:19:46  <DanMacK> could be fun.  Set it for FIRS version 1000 :P
19:19:49  <andythenorth> but didn't look good :P
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19:22:26  <planetmaker> we're at FIRS version >1650 :-P
19:22:44  <planetmaker> hello DanMacK :-)
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19:24:14  <DanMacK> Hey PM
19:24:22  * andythenorth starts re-coding the tiresome forge / blacksmith chain :P
19:24:45  <planetmaker> I saw very quick issue solution in the other channel, andythenorth ;-)
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19:25:03  <andythenorth> heh
19:30:19  <bb10> So I run a server with dedicated OTTD. I have some lag issues though. How can I solve that?
19:33:12  <bb10> It's running 1.1.0b4 btw
19:42:00  <perk11> why isn't it possible to change newgrfs during the game in 1.1.0b4?
19:42:13  <perk11> bb10: what kind of lag issues?
19:42:37  <perk11> I'd been running dedicated server for a while
19:43:50  <bb10> vehicles not moving smoothly
19:44:37  <ABCRic> bb10: excessive cpu load?
19:45:40  <bb10> nope
19:46:30  <bb10> log has these: [2687551] Client #20 is slow, try increasing [network.]frame_freq to a higher value!
19:48:02  <perk11> maybe it's really a slow client?
19:49:54  <bb10> it happens to me too
19:52:52  <ABCRic> bb10: a slow client will slow down other clients
19:53:13  <bb10> oh
19:53:17  <ABCRic> either that or it will desync
19:53:19  <Alberth> bb10: is a recent discussion, perhaps it is useful
19:53:55  <Alberth> otherwise, you may want to do a search there
19:54:52  <Alberth> perk11: changing newgrfs was never supported, you were just lucky not to get major problems
19:55:06  <perk11> I never got any
19:55:14  <perk11> and it was useful
19:55:18  <Alberth> yeah, you were lucky
19:55:54  <perk11> well, why can't I continue being lucky?
19:56:16  <perk11> isn't the warning enough?
19:56:17  <Alberth> because you are not the only person playing openttd
19:56:41  <Alberth> obviously not, otherwise we'd keep the old behavior :p
19:56:47  <perk11> lol
19:57:25  <perk11> some grfs definetely create no problems
19:57:39  <perk11> those which only change graphics
19:57:42  <perk11> for example
19:57:48  <ABCRic> just enable the developer tools
19:58:42  <andythenorth> enable the newgrf developer tools and be prepared for the game going 'boom' :D
19:58:48  <andythenorth> instructions are in ottd wiki
19:58:53  <perk11> ok
19:58:56  <perk11> thank you
20:04:45  <Alberth> perk11: the program has no way of knowing what changes a newgrf makes
20:11:34  <ABCRic> it could, but no one is willing to do it
20:11:43  <ABCRic> mainly because there's no point
20:11:56  <Terkhen> how?
20:12:23  <ABCRic> Terkhen: there's always some way to stuff :P
20:12:30  <ABCRic> *to do
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20:18:05  <Terkhen> from what I know, you can't really determine what callbacks do unless you run all possible combinations, which is not possible to be done in a reasonable time
20:18:32  <ABCRic> like I said, possible, but there's no point
20:19:08  <ABCRic> specially because it would require large amounts of time and work that should be used for other things
20:21:35  <ABCRic> like... cleaning up the flyspray task list?
20:27:34  <Alberth> is there much stuff to clean? afaik there are mostly feature requests there
20:35:05  <Terkhen> does anyone else has "too fast" map scrolling on linux? by scrolling just a bit I can get to the other side of a 1024x1024 map
20:35:16  <Terkhen> and I would like to get more information before digging on this problem
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20:42:33  <Alberth> works for me
20:43:03  <Alberth> do you use automagic scrolling when near the edge?
20:43:09  <Terkhen> no
20:43:41  <Alberth> ok, just RMB-down scrolling
20:43:45  <frosch123> Terkhen: you are using a vm?
20:44:09  <Terkhen> no, it's native
20:44:16  <Alberth> does it behave weird outside OpenTTD?
20:44:23  <Terkhen> no
20:44:37  <Alberth> weird :p
20:44:58  <Terkhen> yes... since I'm using arch I'm guessing it's some new version of a library
20:45:24  <frosch123> works fine for me, both with sdl and allegro
20:45:37  <Terkhen> which version of sdl?
20:45:38  <Alberth>" target="_blank"> => /usr/lib64/" target="_blank">
20:46:11  <Terkhen> I seem to be running 1.2.24, I'll try compiling with allegro
20:46:20  <frosch123> 1.2.14
20:46:41  <frosch123> 24 ? i doubt there is such a version
20:46:53  <Terkhen> sorry, 1.2.14 :)
20:47:44  <Alberth> SDL-1.2.14-8.fc13.x86_64
20:47:54  <Alberth> is the package name
20:48:42  <Terkhen> weird
20:49:22  <frosch123> Terkhen: anyway, i remember fast-scrolling occuring when using a tablet-like mouse with absolute positioning
20:49:31  <frosch123> like on mobile devices, or sometimes also in vms
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20:50:31  <Terkhen> hmm... I'm using a cheap usb mouse on a physical linux, maybe arch does something strange regarding mouse configuration
20:50:48  <frosch123> ottd takes the difference of the mouse positions for scrolling and then moves the mouse back to the previous position, but for absolute mouse positioning that just fails :p
20:51:05  <Terkhen> I'll check if it is using absolute mouse positioning somehow
20:52:31  <perk11> Terkhen: and how does scrollng with keyboard work?
20:52:31  <Alberth> if you use LMB dragging, the mouse moves with the landscape
20:52:48  <Terkhen> perk11: as expected
20:52:58  <Terkhen> it moves correctly
20:55:11  <Terkhen> interesting, it works perfectly with allegro
20:55:36  <Terkhen> so it's probably an issue with my version of sdl-1.2.14
20:56:04  <Alberth> looks like it
20:56:47  <Terkhen> thanks everybody for the advice :)
20:57:27  <Terkhen> I'll check with a vanilla version of sdl to be sure before blaming arch's sdl
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20:59:46  <ABCRic> Alberth: feature requests need cleaning too :)
21:00:07  <frosch123> ABCRic: no, you can easily filter for them :p
21:01:31  *** Zuu [] has joined #openttd
21:01:35  <Alberth> ABCRic: We could clean them, but people don't have enough space with just one suggestions forum, they need two apparently
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21:02:09  <frosch123> Alberth: you forgot the wiki
21:02:18  <ABCRic> with cleaning up I met organizing and (maybe) working on them
21:02:35  <frosch123> though i forgot whether there are two or only one list on the wiki :p
21:03:13  <frosch123> ABCRic: what? who does such things? :p
21:03:44  <ABCRic> you do! :D
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21:04:50  <Alberth> Luckily, I cannot find such things at the wiki :p
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21:07:52  <perk11> why do you want to clean feature requests? what if someone has similar request? he'll just write a comment or vote for the existing one instead of creating a new one
21:08:50  <Alberth> exactly, that's why they stay available
21:08:56  <perk11> oh will see why was it closed
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21:32:33  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: alberth * r21930 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: Remove unused vehicle GetTypeString() functions.
21:33:19  <Eddi|zuHause> <ABCRic> Terkhen: there's always some way to stuff :P <-- you should urgently go to a theoretical computer science lesson about decidability
21:35:29  <Alberth> not if you don't care about minor problems as finite computation time :)
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21:38:24  <Eddi|zuHause> holds for countable time as well :p
21:38:25  <planetmaker> time is finite after all? ;-)
21:38:41  <planetmaker> damn? and countable?
21:38:52  <ABCRic> make stuff now, worry about minor problems later :D
21:39:45  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: if time is quantized, clearly it's countable as well
21:40:29  <planetmaker> So much for the mightyness / cardinality
21:40:47  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: the question is: is it? ;-)
21:41:02  <planetmaker> quod est demonstrandum
21:41:25  <Eddi|zuHause> in an unquantized time, you can do _any_ calculation within 2 seconds, if you start with a clock period of 1 second and halve it in each step :p
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21:42:38  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that's not a property of a continuous set only
21:42:47  <planetmaker> you can do the same on R and Q. And Q is quantized
21:43:00  <Alberth> yeah, I should have said finite computation speed :p
21:43:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Q is not quantized
21:43:04  <planetmaker> actually both are continuous. But Q is cardinal, R not
21:43:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Q is countable, yes
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21:47:08  <andythenorth> are blacksmith forges countable?
21:48:06  <Alberth> defintely, they use non-zeno tile space
21:48:13  <Terkhen> I think so, but I'm not sure about the effort of coding them
21:48:51  <planetmaker> :-D
21:49:11  <planetmaker> Terkhen: it may just as well be countable and infinite at the same time ;-)
21:49:38  <Terkhen> heh :P
21:50:02  <Alberth> that depends on your unit of effort :)
21:50:18  <planetmaker> :-P
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21:50:46  <Alberth> 'amount of thought' seems pretty non-countable to me :)
21:51:15  <Alberth> good night
21:51:20  <planetmaker> that's why people have so many random, countless thoughs
21:51:22  <planetmaker> +t
21:51:26  <planetmaker> have a good night Alberth
21:51:28  <ABCRic> night Alberth
21:51:33  <planetmaker> And countless pleasant dreams :-)
21:52:11  <Alberth> and countless non-feasible fantastic ideas for new programs :p
21:52:18  <andythenorth> forge:
21:52:22  <Terkhen> good night Alberth
21:52:45  <Terkhen> looks nice andythenorth :)
21:53:39  <Alberth> you do need that white label, andy
21:53:51  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- speaking of countless ideas :p
21:54:03  <andythenorth> I could put the white label in the grf :P
21:54:30  <andythenorth> heh
21:54:41  <Alberth> it looks very nice, but a little too much disguised as a house perhaps
21:54:44  <andythenorth> 'toggle labels'
21:54:55  <andythenorth> I'll give it a chimney or such
21:55:05  <andythenorth> it's a town building, there's not much I can do quickly
21:55:18  <andythenorth> it could have a yard
21:55:24  <Alberth> an arrow "this is not a house" :p
21:55:26  <andythenorth> it used to be two tiles, it could be again
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21:58:01  <planetmaker> andythenorth: it's missing the horse shoe sign
21:58:16  <andythenorth> heh
21:58:32  <planetmaker> or if you want the hammer or whatever.
21:58:44  <planetmaker> It needs *something* to distinguish it from houses slightly
21:59:07  <planetmaker> though you could do that with the ground tiles like ECS / TAI
22:00:15  <andythenorth> planetmaker: how do you distinguish other town industry?
22:00:21  <planetmaker> also: the wall around the garden / courtyard: it needs a wide door to allow horses / wagons to pass through
22:00:23  <andythenorth> e.g. store, petrol pump, builders yard
22:00:33  <andythenorth> I've just deleted the wall :)
22:00:38  <planetmaker> he
22:00:52  <planetmaker> andythenorth: petrol pump has in invisibility mode a petrol sign
22:01:18  <planetmaker> at least the only one I know :-P
22:01:25  <planetmaker> otherwise it's indeed hard
22:02:27  <planetmaker> the brewery, for example is a bit less critical. It's big enough and its style is discernible
22:02:55  <andythenorth> I am coming to really dislike this forge chain :D
22:03:05  <andythenorth> could just locate it out of town
22:06:20  <Terkhen> good night
22:06:49  <andythenorth> night
22:07:06  <ABCRic> night Terkhen
22:07:37  <andrew12> anyone want to explain to me why this game is so addicting?
22:07:42  <andrew12> :P
22:08:00  <ABCRic> andrew12: no special reason :)
22:08:29  <planetmaker> g'night Terkhen :-)
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22:08:43  <planetmaker> andythenorth: inside the town is quite nice
22:09:07  <planetmaker> you could force one of the outer town zones, though
22:09:11  <planetmaker> maybe like 4 or 5
22:09:30  <planetmaker> for the ingame construction
22:09:40  <DanMacK> Possibly have an open hearth with chimney on the second tile with piles of ore and iron bits about
22:09:56  <andythenorth> DanMacK: do you want to draw that?
22:10:07  <andythenorth> this one is metal -> ENSP / FMSP
22:10:11  <DanMacK> lol
22:10:16  <andythenorth> I need to do a separate ironworks
22:10:20  * DanMacK has to stop making suggestions... lol
22:12:07  <z-MaTRiX_> hi
22:12:16  <z-MaTRiX_> can someone tell me what is a town?
22:12:39  <z-MaTRiX_> "banks can only built in towns"
22:13:03  <z-MaTRiX_> there is a town with 26000 population
22:13:28  <ABCRic> banks must be built over existing houses
22:13:30  <DanMacK> you have to click on a town building if you're building a bank
22:15:56  <z-MaTRiX_> right now clicking every houses in town
22:15:57  <z-MaTRiX_> no luck
22:17:48  <perk111> I never could build a bank too
22:17:53  *** perk111 is now known as perk11
22:18:40  <andrew12> why does it sometimes only allow me to build "city" airports?
22:18:52  <perk11> because of the year?
22:19:15  <DanMacK> There's a switch to keep the small airports
22:19:31  <andrew12> but why would it even get rid of them? heh
22:19:41  <Yexo> because it worked that way in ttd
22:19:46  <andrew12> hm
22:19:58  <z-MaTRiX_> ok bank failed
22:20:00  <z-MaTRiX_> ;/
22:20:01  <andrew12> how do i make them not go away?
22:20:22  <Yexo> somewhere in the advanced settings window there is an option "always keep airports"
22:20:32  <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX_: savegame or it didn't happen.
22:20:44  <andrew12> Construction => Airports Never Expire
22:20:45  <z-MaTRiX_> ok
22:21:01  <Yexo> andrew12: yes, that's the one
22:21:06  <andrew12> ty
22:23:14  <andythenorth> DanMacK:
22:23:53  <andythenorth> with a fence around part of it, and some greeble
22:24:03  <andythenorth> and some bigger doors on the building, and a chimney
22:24:05  <andythenorth> = win
22:24:06  <andythenorth> :)
22:24:14  <z-MaTRiX_>
22:24:31  <z-MaTRiX_> attached the snapshot
22:25:09  <z-MaTRiX_> tried to build bank in "funtown"
22:26:06  <perk11> only one allowed per town
22:26:15  <perk11> that's what I've got
22:26:22  <perk11> after trying a bit
22:27:30  <z-MaTRiX_> it writes to me can only built in towns
22:27:35  <perk11> and I could build one in Wrennway-on-sea
22:28:03  <z-MaTRiX_> but yes it is already one in funtown
22:28:23  <andythenorth> good night
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22:28:51  <perk11> also it needs 2 tiles
22:29:09  <ABCRic> g'night
22:29:39  *** ABCRic [] has quit [Quit: Goodbye, world...]
22:29:40  <z-MaTRiX_> btw im using r21916
22:30:01  <perk11> does it matter?
22:30:17  <perk11> make buildings transparent
22:30:19  <planetmaker> good night
22:30:30  <perk11> and  choose 2 tiles
22:30:44  <perk11> which are on the same level
22:30:59  <perk11> then you will see the "only one per town" message
22:31:53  <perk11> near the airport, for example
22:33:13  <perk11> btw why is ther 1 bank per town limit? this is sure unrealistic
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22:40:49  <__ln__> how well do city walls and railways work together?
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22:55:07  * DanMacK doesn't think there are city walls in OTTD...
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22:59:18  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:01:27  <__ln__> # Bilbo Baggins, he's only three feet tall
23:01:36  <__ln__> # Bilbo Baggins, bravest hobbit of them all
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23:17:00  <z-MaTRiX_> hmhm
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