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00:07:11 *** bcool [~bcool@97-120-67-182.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #openttd 00:07:35 <bcool> okay, I have a savegame showing my problem. 00:07:45 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f736f94.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:07:51 <bcool> 3 years and the game is still collecting interest on the loan. 00:08:09 <bcool> despite having been paid off. 00:08:33 <SmatZ> bcool: can you upload it somewhere? 00:09:30 <bcool> one sec 00:10:26 <bcool> http://www.filedropper.com/loanproblems 00:10:43 <bcool> I created a quick custom scenario. 00:10:50 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 00:10:52 <bcool> For easy cash. 00:12:27 <V453000> is there any formula to count how much passengers could be produced by 3 million world population in total? 00:12:30 <V453000> (per month) 00:13:31 <SmatZ> bcool: that savegame doesn't show any "Loan interest" for Plonningville Transport 00:13:45 <SmatZ> it just shows some Property maintenance 00:13:48 <bcool> hmm 00:14:02 <SmatZ> and Other 00:14:11 <SmatZ> which is... I don't remember now what is that :) 00:14:39 <bcool> I'm seeing loan interest. 00:14:55 <SmatZ> what version do you have? 00:15:14 <bcool> oh, that is other. Whoops 00:15:17 <bcool> 1.0.5 00:15:19 <SmatZ> hmm 1.0.5 00:15:25 <SmatZ> :) 00:16:37 <bcool> okay 00:16:40 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:49 <bcool> sorry for being a noob 00:17:24 <V453000> bcool: person who admits being a noob, is not a noob :P 00:17:39 <V453000> just made a mistake ;) shit happens 00:17:49 <SmatZ> no problem :) 00:17:51 <SmatZ> yup 00:21:24 <bcool> I assume Other goes up due to inflation? 00:25:13 *** bcool [~bcool@97-120-67-182.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 00:26:15 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.64.205] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:47 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.64.205] has joined #openttd 00:31:36 <glx> aren't other related to landscaping ? 00:32:01 <V453000> that is construction 00:32:19 <V453000> other is founding industries, sending money to companies, and idk what else :) 00:32:43 <glx> maybe I'll search in the source if I really want to know :) 00:47:29 <Eddi|zuHause> errr... when switching off mammoth trains, i can only make 9 halftiles long trains, instead of 10 00:48:09 <Eddi|zuHause> unless it's a dual-headed engine 00:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and i can make 18 halftiles, when attaching dual headed engines together 00:51:13 <Eddi|zuHause> so there's a) an obiwan with the length, and b) missing check for dualhead/articulated 00:53:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and independently from this: ctrl+click to turn around vehicles that are shorter than 1 halftile is incorrect 01:00:14 *** evo-devo [username@82.180.38.86.ip.erdves.lt] has joined #openttd 01:00:21 <evo-devo> Hello. 01:00:59 <evo-devo> Are there any servers that accepts new players? 01:02:04 <Eddi|zuHause> this is more a development channel. server owners are usually not here. check the multiplayer lobby in the game, sometimes the servers have websites 01:09:36 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.11.14.158] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 01:17:21 <Ammler> every server without password accepts new players 01:20:23 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BAE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:28 *** staN [~Miranda@p4FD852C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28:54 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B73774.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:28:55 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.64.205] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28:56 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73774.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29:17 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.64.205] has joined #openttd 01:31:49 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.64.205] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:30 *** Guest2093 [~Vadtec@i.am.vadtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 487 seconds] 01:35:14 *** OwenSX-28AC [~oshepherd@kamina.ldn1.uk.e43.eu] has joined #openttd 01:35:45 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B1752DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds] 01:39:00 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 01:39:20 *** 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03:17:15 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73774.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:17:52 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 03:28:33 *** HalfBit [~hb@201-43-240-176.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:30:21 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 04:05:00 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:07:17 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:1440:775a:a5f5:327] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:21:25 *** lasershock [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:58:20 *** lasershock [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 05:12:20 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 05:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73774.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73929.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:14:25 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:33:27 *** evo-devo` [username@82.180.38.86.ip.erdves.lt] has joined #openttd 06:37:54 *** heffer [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:41:15 *** evo-devo [username@82.180.38.86.ip.erdves.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:02:42 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.141] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:05:42 *** KouDy [~koudy@115.133.6.141] has joined #openttd 07:14:11 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B10655D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:16:35 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e06ec12.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:24:39 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:33:53 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:40:39 <Terkhen> good morning 07:44:27 *** heffer [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has joined #openttd 07:44:53 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 07:57:51 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: interesting, that bug was fixed at least once in the past 07:58:35 <SmatZ> @commit 12131 07:58:35 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by smatz :: r12131 trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp (2008-02-13 16:49:25 UTC) 07:58:36 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Fix (r3374): with mammoth trains disabled, maximum train length was limited to 9 07:58:51 <SmatZ> ^^^ Eddi|zuHause :) I suppose you are using more recent version than r12131 08:02:56 <SmatZ> hmm the message "Train too long" misses a predicate (verb) 08:03:21 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 08:03:25 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5D19.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:03:27 <Terkhen> ... train is too long 08:04:02 <SmatZ> yeah 08:04:34 <SmatZ> I would almost vote for removing mammoth_trains as well :P 08:04:37 <Rubidium> "... site unsuitable"? ;) 08:04:40 <SmatZ> :-) 08:04:49 *** heffer [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:49 <Rubidium> "... too high" 08:04:59 <SmatZ> :-) 08:05:09 <Rubidium> "... too many towns" 08:05:20 <Rubidium> so it's missing verbs all around 08:05:29 <SmatZ> hmm 08:05:32 <Terkhen> SmatZ: introduce a bug on them and count the revisions until someone notices 08:06:11 <SmatZ> Terkhen: FS#4461 :) 08:06:17 <SmatZ> I wonder for how long it has been broken 08:06:27 <Terkhen> :D 08:07:12 * Rubidium would argue FS#4462 is a NewGRF bug 08:07:53 <Rubidium> or otherwise a duplicate of FS#3569 08:08:35 <SmatZ> interestingly, FS#4462 was discussed here few days ago 08:37:48 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:43:41 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BBDD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:52:58 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:21 <Guest2439> hey-ho 09:05:58 *** Guest2439 is now known as z-MaTRiX_serverdropped 09:06:39 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> what linux do you use ? 09:08:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.182.139] has joined #openttd 09:12:44 <planetmaker> moin 09:13:50 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.64.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:14:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.167.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:16:10 <V453000> hi pm :) 09:19:26 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host235-235-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:20:08 <Wolf01> morning 09:22:37 <Terkhen> hi planetmaker and Wolf01 09:35:36 *** Vadtec [vadtec@i.am.vadtec.net] has joined #openttd 09:50:15 *** halogen [~hayes@69.51.104.87] has joined #openttd 10:22:31 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has left #openttd [] 10:28:07 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 10:30:20 *** KouDy [~koudy@115.133.6.141] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:34:53 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.141] has joined #openttd 10:36:03 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:45:57 *** Tennel [~Tennel@193.175.2.6] has joined #openttd 10:46:38 <Tennel> hello, how do i load a scenario into a dedicated server? 10:49:13 <Terkhen> Tennel: http://wiki.openttd.org/Dedicated_Servers#Loading_a_game 10:49:54 <Tennel> thx 10:49:58 <Tennel> bye 10:49:59 *** Tennel [~Tennel@193.175.2.6] has quit [] 10:50:14 <planetmaker> now, that was... short quick and nice :-) 10:50:32 <halogen> I'd rather have seen that drawn out for hours since I have nothing better to do. 10:51:20 <planetmaker> V453000: the screenshot you show in the titlegame thread will IIRC only look that way if you play with newgrf which support 2CC 10:51:32 <V453000> oh 10:51:35 <V453000> true :) sorry 10:51:40 <V453000> didnt realize that 10:51:52 <V453000> thanks ;) 10:51:52 <planetmaker> base sets only have 1CC ;-) 10:51:57 <planetmaker> no problem 10:52:01 <V453000> yes, I know, it just didnt hit me :P 10:56:31 <planetmaker> are you going to correct it? 10:56:46 <V453000> ofc 10:56:49 <V453000> done 10:56:52 <planetmaker> :-) 10:57:50 <planetmaker> thx 10:57:58 <V453000> was my fault :p 11:00:31 <V453000> I just do not like to make the savegame look like a parrot, shining with all the colous together 11:02:00 <planetmaker> hehe 11:02:26 <planetmaker> well. Still I think showing more than one company is a good thing. No need for 15 companies, though 11:02:51 <planetmaker> Like one could provide heli services for the ultra rich and valuables. The other the commuter for the common people. Or so 11:04:57 *** Tennel [~Tennel@193.175.2.6] has joined #openttd 11:05:57 <Tennel> hi, i tried loading the scenario with the -g parameter, but the server doesn't load it. Do i have to change some settings in the config file? 11:08:07 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-4d020bf4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:08:40 <planetmaker> did you give the proper path? 11:08:40 <Tennel> i also tried to load it via rcon with "rcon <pwd> load scenario/<myscenario>.scn" but, it schows me the help of the load cmd 11:08:58 <planetmaker> you might need ../scenario/file.scn 11:09:00 <Tennel> yes i tried with full path 11:09:11 <Tennel> why .. 11:09:37 <Tennel> nope, doesn't work 11:09:44 <planetmaker> you can always rename it to a normal savegame and try then. 11:10:31 <Tennel> but there's an .id and a .title file 11:11:17 <Tennel> what is the normal way to load a scenario into a dedicated server, without gui? 11:12:28 <planetmaker> openttd knows not nor reads nor creates any .id nor .title files 11:12:53 <planetmaker> I always upload only savegames which I load 11:14:36 <Tennel> i downloaded ingame content, and there are these files 11:14:42 <Tennel> i don't know 11:15:48 <planetmaker> they're not from openttd 11:16:16 <Tennel> ok.. 11:16:39 <Tennel> i tried to rename it, to 123.sav, openttd says no file or dir 11:18:14 <planetmaker> then you don't give the proper path 11:18:37 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.11.14.158] has joined #openttd 11:18:40 <planetmaker> rcon pwd will tell you where it (currently) searches 11:20:33 <Tennel> ok, i try 11:20:37 <Tennel> cya l8er 11:20:38 *** Tennel [~Tennel@193.175.2.6] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 11:24:25 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:25:02 <V453000> pm: they still do stop in red stations though :P 11:26:08 <V453000> mahh, just tried to change coulours and was terrified by the sight :D 11:26:10 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 11:46:25 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-223-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:47:56 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-223-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 11:57:04 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc318c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:59:59 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe86de00-46.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:00:45 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:02:48 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 12:11:07 *** Tennel [~Tennel@farafin-gate.cs.uni-magdeburg.de] has joined #openttd 12:12:18 <Tennel> ok, i've tried a lot of things to open a scenario on a dedicated server, nothing worked. 12:13:25 <Ammler> Tennel: rename the scn to sav 12:13:37 <Tennel> doesn't wokr 12:13:40 <Tennel> *work 12:13:44 <Ammler> then paste the error 12:14:13 <Wolf01> can you load it in singleplayer? 12:14:14 <Tennel> no error, openttd just load a random map instead 12:14:17 <Tennel> yes 12:14:30 <Ammler> how do you load the save on your server? 12:15:06 <Tennel> via -g parameter and with "rcon <pwd> "load <path>"" 12:15:13 <Ammler> so which? 12:15:32 <Tennel> NorthernGermany 12:15:43 <Ammler> no, I mean, do you use -g or rcon? 12:16:06 <Tennel> both 12:16:28 <Ammler> I quite much dislike this new feature, where it starts a random game, when the loading doesn't work 12:16:50 <Tennel> yep, me too 12:17:06 <planetmaker> Tennel: does the server have all required newgrfs? 12:17:33 <Tennel> hmm, this could be the point 12:17:41 <Tennel> i will try that 12:17:44 <Ammler> but that would show a error 12:17:49 <planetmaker> not loading a map is usually a clear indicator that one is missing. 12:18:26 <Tennel> ok, i'll report later 12:19:30 <Tennel> how can i find out, which are required 12:19:33 <planetmaker> Tennel: that scenario has a plethora of newgrfs 12:20:01 <planetmaker> And I don't have all of them... 12:20:15 <Tennel> ok... 12:20:22 <Tennel> hmm 12:20:35 <Ammler> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/99/ <-- buggy 12:20:42 <planetmaker> and badly configured, too 12:21:07 <planetmaker> hm, acutally I have all. Just badly configured newgrf list 12:21:11 <planetmaker> and settings 12:21:51 <Ammler> if you define a wrong path, it does start a random game but then exits because of the failed save? 12:22:39 <planetmaker> http://imagebin.org/135954 12:25:06 <Rubidium> Ammler: yes; failure to load is only checked after a fallback has been loaded 12:25:18 <Tennel> ok, thx for the informations, i will not run scenarios anymore :) 12:25:50 <Rubidium> that way the "state" of loading a savegame is always the same: there is a valid game state 12:26:23 <Rubidium> instead of some invalid state after which all places that try to load a savegame must check what to do on failure, i.e. exit or load another game, or ... 12:27:41 <planetmaker> Tennel: 'scenario' is just another file extension. Otherwise it's a normal savegame. 12:27:49 <Tennel> ok 12:27:56 <planetmaker> So... just use a normal savegame, upload it and load it. 12:28:09 <Tennel> and activate the newgrfs 12:28:11 <planetmaker> then you're save and you could have made sure (locally) that the game is ok 12:28:23 <planetmaker> of course your server has to have all newgrfs involved. sure 12:28:23 <Tennel> i will try that, if i have more time 12:28:38 <planetmaker> just scp your newgrf folder to the server ;-) 12:29:01 <Tennel> thx a lot 12:30:30 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:36:54 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 12:37:35 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-228-156.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:43:38 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-179-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:46:00 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:46:31 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc318c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:10 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:00:24 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED662EB.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:10:48 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:20e4:d7bb:aa6b:78c6] has joined #openttd 13:10:51 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:29:44 *** DayDreamer [~pouzara@80.95.101.194] has joined #openttd 13:40:13 <Belugas> hello 13:47:33 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.noaddedsugar.net] has joined #openttd 13:58:34 *** Tennel [~Tennel@farafin-gate.cs.uni-magdeburg.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:00:53 <planetmaker> does anyone have a game for me with MANY airplanes, but no airplane NewGRF? 14:01:46 <Terkhen> can't you use a game with a lot of wrightAIs? 14:02:11 <planetmaker> that's probably the 2nd option. But I'm not sure whether they build all kinds of planes, too 14:02:36 <Terkhen> probably not, you could mend that a bit adding chopper AI 14:02:58 <dihedral> you could ask luukland, as his servers are the only ones that allow planes 14:03:04 <planetmaker> :-) Or I'll build a airport for each plane and see how it goes :-) 14:03:10 <planetmaker> I need them for alignment purposes 14:03:50 <Ammler> make a .stable with planes only :-P 14:04:05 <planetmaker> And I could use an alignment template for arbitrarily-sized planes :-P 14:06:27 <planetmaker> I can sensibly continue with the rail wagons only when I have correct colours ;-) 14:07:05 <planetmaker> Looks like I already commited bad colours :S 14:07:26 <planetmaker> testing with blue CC didn't prove too well for this ;-) 14:20:03 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EB71.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:30:23 *** halogen [~hayes@69.51.104.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:27 <planetmaker> hm, when is the broken plimp shown? 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16:36:20 *** evo-devo` [username@82.180.38.86.ip.erdves.lt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:39:38 <dihedral> bounding box and plane on a different level? 16:40:55 <planetmaker> rather x and y offset 16:41:10 <planetmaker> by actually seemingly what I give as offset in the real sprite. 16:41:18 <peter1138> What's the problem? 16:41:46 <planetmaker> the bounding boxes don't surround the planes when in flight 16:42:00 <planetmaker> nor actually on the ground 16:42:04 <peter1138> ahh 16:45:16 <planetmaker> hm... the bounding box size changes upon landing... from too large to too small 16:53:20 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.64.205] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:49 <Belugas> maybe because it changes sprites? 16:58:17 <planetmaker> base set planes don't change sprites 16:58:31 <planetmaker> there's only 8 views and when landing orientation doesn't change 17:02:30 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i think i never have seen dihedral's real name before... 17:04:19 <planetmaker> errm... so? 17:05:41 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e06ec12.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 17:05:53 <planetmaker> aren't our nicks our 'real names' here? 17:06:08 <planetmaker> and aren't all of us 20-year old male geeks? :-P 17:06:23 <Eddi|zuHause> for large values of "20" ;) 17:06:37 <planetmaker> 2sigma is about 40 ,I guess 17:08:18 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 17:08:21 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, you have not? it's in bugs. too 17:08:33 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: yes, that's where i just saw it 17:08:43 <dihedral> oh 17:08:47 <dihedral> and my /whois shows it too 17:08:50 <dihedral> and my domain 17:09:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but i don't usually /whois people ;) 17:09:07 <dihedral> but i would get slightly worried if you were so keen to find out what my real name was :-D 17:09:18 <Eddi|zuHause> it's displayed when you hover over the nicklist, too 17:09:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not. i just didn't recognize the name as "known" 17:10:27 <planetmaker> Eddi meet dih. dih meet Eddi ;-) 17:11:15 <planetmaker> and hit the road, drive 500km and buy eachother a beer :-P 17:11:29 <V453000> beer 17:12:01 <planetmaker> sorry for the highlight :-P 17:12:47 <XeryusTC> beer \o/ 17:13:02 <peter1138> bet you can't guess my name 17:13:31 <Prof_Frink> beer! 17:13:38 <peter1138> that's not my name! 17:13:54 <Prof_Frink> <@beer1138> that's not my name! 17:14:01 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i have also not met dihedral either. 17:14:09 <peter1138> lol 17:14:42 *** guru3_ [~guru3@2002:51eb:a47b::1] has joined #openttd 17:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138/Prof_Frink: well, it's a simple consonant-substitution ;) 17:15:27 <Eddi|zuHause> leave out the t and switch p for b ;) 17:17:56 <Eddi|zuHause> britain is not part of the schengen-treaty, so you need a passport to get there? 17:18:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i actually was in Schengen once. 17:19:38 *** bb10X [~bb10@bb10x.org] has joined #openttd 17:19:50 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a really tiny town, and half of the area is dedicated as a memorial place for the location the ship docked when first signing the treaty :p 17:19:50 *** mucht_home [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 17:19:51 *** APTX [~APTX@89-77-188-241.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 17:21:10 *** Osai^2 [~Osai@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 17:21:42 *** Wilberfo1ce [~wilberfor@83.170.81.66] has joined #openttd 17:21:51 *** TheMask96- [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:21:55 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> magnet.oftc.net quits: Xaroth_, Mucht, jonty-comp, hoax_, guru3, pugi, Fast2, bb10, neli, Osai, (+11 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 17:21:55 *** hoax [U2FsdGVkX1@dhcp-077-249-151-209.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 17:22:30 *** Netsplit over, joins: goblin 17:22:48 *** Netsplit over, joins: Lakie, George, Fast2, dihedral, Kurimus, pugi, Xaroth_, TinoDidriksen, neli, Aali 17:27:25 *** heffer [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has joined #openttd 17:30:41 *** fjb is now known as Guest100 17:30:42 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE7C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:31:27 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 17:35:47 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.141] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:37:25 *** Guest100 [~frank@p5DDFE385.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:38:05 *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:49:25 *** LordAro [~kvirc@host86-156-237-49.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:03:45 *** Muddy [~muddy@using.ipv6.ws] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 18:03:56 *** Muddy [~muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has joined #openttd 18:07:36 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d0828f5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:10:25 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-4d020bf4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:28:11 *** andythenorth [~andy@210.64.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 18:28:29 <andythenorth> electricity: the suggestion that won't die 18:28:30 <andythenorth> :P 18:28:44 <Terkhen> :) 18:30:03 <Eddi|zuHause> there are at least half a dozen suggestions of that kind :p 18:30:33 <andythenorth> some less stupid than others :P 18:31:06 <Eddi|zuHause> what? like assembling road vehicles like trains? :p 18:34:34 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... merging wikis doesn't sound like a very bright idea... 18:35:37 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:35:40 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:35:51 <supermop> I don't think electricity is necessarily inappropriate for OTTD, but most of the proposals thusfar I cannot get behind, 18:36:34 <supermop> afterall, what private transport company also runs the electric utilities? 18:37:08 <supermop> (actually there are probably a few, but that seems like a case of exceptions that prove the rule) 18:39:10 <Eddi|zuHause> historically, creating an electrified tram network is actually the first time that many cities got electricity the first time 18:39:25 <Eddi|zuHause> -the first time 18:40:42 <Eddi|zuHause> so the order is: a tram network is planned, a power station is built to supply the tram network, some of the power is diverted to the houses near the tram network. 18:44:33 <Alberth> let's build a power plant near every city with a tram :p 18:45:34 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: translators * r21950 /trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt: 18:45:34 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:34 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnau 18:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause> having power stations have a feedback on your own vehicles (speed or cost) is silly 18:53:29 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-4d020bf4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:01:32 <Belugas> and connect the cities to the water pumps, themselves connected to the electric circuits! 19:04:53 <Alberth> underground pipes 19:06:14 <Alberth> not good for tycoons :( 19:08:32 <Belugas> indeed not. request will fly afterward : I WANT TO SEE MY PIPES!!!! Show ME MY PIPES!!!! 19:08:33 <Belugas> grrr 19:11:10 *** LordAro [~kvirc@host86-156-237-49.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:12:40 *** Fenris3 [~fenris@p5DC698DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:12:54 <Alberth> we need an 'underground view' :p 19:26:00 <Belugas> we do! 19:26:06 <Belugas> and a new map array 19:26:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and signals on bridges! 19:26:32 <Belugas> thing is, i am really starting to believe it can be done :S 19:26:37 <Belugas> that too Eddi|zuHause 19:27:43 *** LordAro [~kvirc@host86-156-237-49.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:28:17 <dihedral> need?!1one 19:29:13 <dihedral> if you turn your screen off you get a pretty good view of what the map must look like from the underground :-D 19:31:30 <Prof_Frink> dihedral: Hmm, April Fools' release? 19:32:32 <andythenorth> why does electricity annoy me so much now? 19:32:49 <Prof_Frink> Because you pissed on the electric fence? 19:33:10 <Belugas> maybe becasue it's static from a picture point of view? 19:34:24 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.64.205] has joined #openttd 19:35:02 <andythenorth> ach 19:35:12 * andythenorth should drink less black coffee and eat more lunch 19:35:21 <Terkhen> you have taken part on too many discussions about it? :) 19:35:25 <andythenorth> probably 19:35:28 <andythenorth> it's like old old news 19:35:39 <andythenorth> connecting up a power grid is stupid and boring 19:35:51 <andythenorth> having to generate power for your trains is even dumber 19:36:04 <Alberth> and not original, simcity already did that :) 19:36:13 <andythenorth> using electricity for town growth and maybe industry production is sane 19:36:21 <andythenorth> and would be possible with newgrf TownControl 19:36:38 <andythenorth> but I don't need the wires and the physics :P 19:55:54 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> hi 19:56:01 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> what linux do all use? 19:56:31 <Alberth> all is not here atm 19:56:52 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> ;> 19:57:04 <Alberth> but the usual suspects, suse, debian, red hat, ubuntu 19:59:12 <Alberth> and Mac uses a BSD variant iirc 19:59:18 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> with reversed order? 19:59:20 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> <; 19:59:34 <Alberth> reversed order? 19:59:40 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> so ubuntu is the most user-friendly? 20:00:07 <__ln__> not. 20:00:08 <Alberth> depends on your idea of what user-friendly actually means 20:00:25 <Prof_Frink> Ubuntu is most ubuntu-user friendly. 20:00:31 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> áh 20:01:10 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> what about centos ? 20:01:19 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> and gentoo 20:01:23 <Alberth> as platform for running programs, ubuntu probably works nicely 20:01:53 <Alberth> centos is RHEL, oriented for servers. Extremely conservative in updating 20:02:47 <__ln__> Alberth: yet it does update, unlike Ubuntu 20:02:48 <Prof_Frink> Gentoo is... gentoo. 20:02:57 <Alberth> ie they have Python 2.4, which is from 2006 20:03:00 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> you mean heavy search for security bugs before updates? :) 20:03:21 <Alberth> no, they fix security, but not otherwise 20:04:18 <Alberth> if you download your average open source linux program as source, you will have a hard time getting it too run, as your software is too old 20:05:32 <Alberth> fedora is the other end of RH, quite bleeding edge, stuff may break, etc 20:06:55 <Alberth> __ln__: don't know about ubuntu, I tend to avoid it 20:08:09 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> :) 20:08:33 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> btw tried ubuntu about 9 month ago, install said "unknown error occoured during install, exiting..." 20:08:44 * Terkhen uses arch 20:09:15 <Prof_Frink> There's always one... 20:13:14 <Eddi|zuHause> err... apparently we now have a version "1.10-4 beta" :p 20:17:35 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> yes tried fedora too 20:17:44 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> well was quite bleeding 20:18:00 <dihedral> i was thinking about arch - decided against gentoo though - they have too many internal battles :-P 20:18:01 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> stability suffers 20:18:53 <dihedral> z-MaTRiX_serverdropped, stability is not just something the distribution brings with it, it is also what the admin does with it 20:19:07 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> sure 20:19:33 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> like opening an xmms or something and plaxing mp3 20:19:40 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> and starting a web browser 20:20:15 <dihedral> more like which libraries are used, where does the user mangle with things and with which things 20:20:22 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> the fedora i tried failed these 20:20:25 <dihedral> which config files does the user have to touch, etc. 20:20:40 <dihedral> note the word 'user' :-P 20:21:23 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> hm 20:21:49 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> should a system hang or crash if a user touches any config files it can? 20:22:25 <dihedral> mangle as root and you can do everything 20:22:31 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> sure 20:22:33 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> but as user 20:22:58 <dihedral> sudo counts as root :-P 20:23:07 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> yes 20:23:18 <dihedral> installing packages from untrusted sources 20:23:24 <Terkhen> if the user has sudo permissions then he can break almost anything :) 20:23:27 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> i think this is like firefox hanging after loading data from the internet... 20:23:51 <Alberth> Terkhen: you can safely drop "almost" there :) 20:24:05 <dihedral> Alberth, hardened kernel? :-D 20:24:26 <dihedral> i knew a guy - he'd even give you root access, you could not do a thing :-D 20:24:37 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> i knew one too 20:24:45 *** LordAro [~kvirc@host86-156-237-49.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:24:46 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> hax.tor.hu 20:25:13 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 20:25:15 <dihedral> the guy i mean is in pen-testing ;-) i doubt he's behind what you know 20:25:41 <dihedral> anyhow - looks like you are after a new distribution then, ey? 20:26:25 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> i have an old system currently and was thinking about upgrading 20:26:41 <dihedral> that eliminates gentoo :-P 20:26:46 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> latest kernel wont compile anymore 20:26:55 <dihedral> ... 20:26:56 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> so system is outdated 20:27:05 <planetmaker> z-MaTRiX_serverdropped: I actually think that your nick does not need to reflect neither your registration status with IRC nor your server status nor your awake status nor... whatever 20:27:13 <planetmaker> In any case it breaks my layout 20:27:17 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> :) 20:27:27 <dihedral> lol 20:27:31 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> was thinking about server dropped connection 20:27:46 <dihedral> planetmaker, there is an easy way around that :-D 20:27:54 <dihedral> and you have access to more easy ways than me :-P 20:27:55 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> all other connections remain unaffected 20:27:55 <planetmaker> I was thinking about that easy way, yes :-P 20:28:03 <planetmaker> no, not that way 20:28:08 <dihedral> :-D 20:28:18 <dihedral> i love it when planetmaker gets the gist of what i mean :-P 20:28:29 <planetmaker> :-) 20:28:57 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> lasttime i set unidentified but thinking about something new 20:29:12 <dihedral> z-MaTRiX_serverdropped, you should weigh different aspects of the distributions and how important they are to you 20:29:17 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 20:29:20 <planetmaker> z-MaTRiX_serverdropped: but that's of absolutely no interest to the others here 20:29:21 *** LordAro [~kvirc@host86-156-237-49.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:29:30 * dihedral agrees with pm 20:29:35 <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> ah ok 20:29:39 <Prof_Frink> Or just play with some LiveCDs and use whichever one has the nices colour scheme. 20:29:46 *** z-MaTRiX_serverdropped is now known as z-matrix 20:29:48 <dihedral> lol 20:30:05 <planetmaker> the only thing we need to know is that it's you ;-) 20:30:21 *** z-matrix is now known as Guest118 20:30:22 <dihedral> i thought it was a new guy before 20:30:24 <Guest118> ok 20:30:30 <Guest118> ihave nice nick now 20:30:37 <dihedral> and i have an ignore on Guest 20:30:41 <planetmaker> yep :-P 20:30:41 <Guest118> <; 20:31:14 <dihedral> actually i do not, but i think i like the idea 20:31:18 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:31:32 <Terkhen> heh :D 20:31:44 <Guest118> hm 20:31:46 <dihedral> ignore Guest\d+ 20:32:13 <Guest118> load average: 3.21, 2.88, 2.74 20:32:22 <Guest118> sha512sum from dvd ;/ 20:32:49 <Guest118> like if dma was nowhere 20:34:00 <dihedral> what's your iowait like? 20:35:27 <Guest118> 4.77% 20:35:54 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-153-176.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:35:58 <Guest118> 244.12 blockread/s on device 20:36:30 <dihedral> happens :-) 20:36:45 <Guest118> btw its centos 5.5 dvd 1 20:37:08 <Alberth> like the data affects your CD speed :p 20:37:21 <Guest118> was thinmkingabout many small files 20:37:28 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d0828f5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:01 <Guest118> same was much fatser from hdd 20:38:59 <dihedral> ... 20:39:07 <Guest118> should i not care reading all files one-by-one and read as iso, then mount and sum in /tmp ? 20:39:39 <Guest118> the purpose would be data verification after writing 20:39:46 <dihedral> nice 20:39:57 <dihedral> i have not burnt a cd/dvd in a long time :-P 20:40:09 <Guest118> i like it in console 20:40:37 <dihedral> yes, but i'd especially not burn just for the 'likes' of it :-D 20:40:43 <Guest118> hehe 20:40:57 <Guest118> sure i need an install dvd right now 20:41:13 <dihedral> usb stick :-) 20:41:15 *** andythenorth [~andy@210.64.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:41:19 <Guest118> 5GB ;< 20:41:37 <Guest118> and i dont have any 20:42:01 <dihedral> well - if you want centos 5.5 that is your choice :) 20:42:02 <Guest118> hm 20:42:23 <dihedral> 6 is being expected ;-) 20:42:28 <Guest118> already used redhat 20:42:33 <Guest118> and liked it 20:42:38 <Guest118> was stable 20:42:52 <Guest118> (its for work) 20:43:17 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 20:43:20 <Guest118> Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS release 4 (Nahant Update 3) 20:43:45 <Guest118> this was my last choice 20:43:53 <Guest118> but outdated 20:44:06 <Guest118> more than 5 years old 20:44:22 <Guest118> and new things wont compile 20:44:57 <Alberth> really stable thus :p 20:45:05 <Guest118> quite 20:45:47 <Guest118> but i could hang it after installing firefox and java 20:47:23 <Alberth> servers don't need firefox :p 20:47:28 <Guest118> yes 20:47:50 <Rubidium> Alberth: how are you supposed to configure your firewall then? 20:47:57 <Rubidium> webmin requires a browser 20:48:09 <Guest118> maeby linx 20:48:13 <Rubidium> and ofcourse administration *must* happen on the phyisical machine 20:48:27 <Rubidium> nay, lynx/links can't handle that... too much javascript ;) 20:48:41 <Rubidium> and too much not like a "real" web browser 20:48:52 <Alberth> konqueror? :) 20:48:54 <Guest118> then ssh 20:51:23 <Rubidium> ssh isn't a graphical web browser 20:51:35 <Guest118> :) 20:51:41 <Rubidium> you really don't know what (stupid) sysadmins want, do you? 20:51:51 <Guest118> hmmm 20:52:27 <Guest118> i dont really like the cups server either on localhost:631 20:52:52 <Rubidium> cups shouldn't run on a server 20:53:02 <Rubidium> printers should have network connectivity themselves 20:53:48 <Alberth> but you need a central queue through 3 machines before you can print :p 20:54:33 <Rubidium> but then the manager can't administer it, so it must run on his workstation 20:54:43 <Rubidium> that way the manager can make sure nothing nasty is printed 20:55:16 <Alberth> I'd be happy if it did print anything, some times :) 20:55:35 <Rubidium> I never had problems printing 20:55:47 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:55:51 <Rubidium> ofcourse I use a proper printer ;) 20:56:15 <Guest118> i have chosen a samsung ml-2570 20:56:19 <Rubidium> (those 50cm+ high printers) 20:58:23 <Guest118> nah almost there 20:59:49 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:16 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 21:01:05 <Guest118> can someone recommend a way to put 6-7 cd images on a dvd ? 21:01:13 <Guest118> would like to have a menu 21:01:53 <Guest118> grub on dvd ? 21:03:55 <Alberth> put the DVD on a flat dust-free surface, shiny side up. 21:03:55 <Alberth> Unpack each CD carefully, and lay them shiny side down, exactly centered on the DVD. 21:03:55 <Alberth> Then use a big sledge hammer to melt them into one. 21:03:55 <Alberth> The latter step may fail if you don't hit it exactly at the center or without enough force. 21:03:57 <Terkhen> Guest118: google can 21:04:07 <Terkhen> ooooh, that's a nice solution too :) 21:04:24 * LordAro likes :) 21:06:09 <Rubidium> there's also fusion cooking, which fuses the CDs together. Given a DVD is just a CD with more capacity, it'll automagically turn into a DVD 21:06:13 <Terkhen> I wanted to do something like that with an old DVD which somehow caused bogus hard drive failures and almost made me crazy trying to fix it 21:06:48 <Guest118> http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?t=150078 21:06:53 <Guest118> likethis 21:07:50 <Guest118> but would like the iso thing more 21:08:20 <Alberth> what's the point? images are so cheap 21:08:39 <Guest118> making a dvd disc with 6 rescucds for ecample 21:09:21 <Guest118> or 40 if they are 100MB 21:09:37 <Alberth> you just need one 21:10:18 <Alberth> or just install everything from scratch for the once in 10 years or so that it happens 21:10:19 <Guest118> livecd and rescuecd is at least 2 21:10:32 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:10:37 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 21:12:43 <Guest118> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1549847 21:12:48 <Guest118> this is interesting 21:12:59 <Guest118> ISO Booting with Grub 2 21:13:30 <Guest118> like copy rescuecd iso on hdd and boot it in bootmenu 21:15:38 *** Lakie` is now known as Lakie 21:15:51 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you just put 10 isos as files on the disk, and use a boot-manager to boot from each one?!? 21:16:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you're totally overthinking this... 21:16:58 * dihedral nods 21:16:59 <Guest118> that was what i would like to do 21:18:02 <Guest118> never had grub2 yet 21:22:43 <Alberth> HDDs are even better at saving data for a longer time :) 21:23:16 <Guest118> you recommend using a hdd to plug in a system with livecd isos? 21:25:06 <Alberth> I don't even make backups, and you're asking me for advice? 21:25:23 <Guest118> :( 21:25:27 <Guest118> dvd verification failed 21:26:18 <Guest118> ./images/stage2.img 21:27:08 <Rubidium> oh... does mb read stuff only partly or something? 21:28:11 <Guest118> cmp stage2.img /media/cdrecorder2/images/stage2.img 21:28:12 <Guest118> stage2.img /media/cdrecorder2/images/stage2.img differ: byte 35844097, line 128982 21:28:27 <Guest118> dont know, should work ok 21:28:37 <planetmaker> Rubidium: hm? 21:28:39 <Guest118> lg dvd burner 21:29:00 <Alberth> Guest118: really, we don't need all those details 21:29:00 <Rubidium> planetmaker: bug tracker; the thing about reversing vehicles 21:29:51 *** afk [~Dre@92.28.100.46] has joined #openttd 21:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i'm fairly sure there's a "yes" :p 21:34:08 <planetmaker> hm, strange discussion 21:35:22 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: my point is that he says "engines may travel in both directions explicitly", but then the short vehicle callback is the way to do that explicitly? 21:35:29 <Rubidium> EMAKESNOSENSE 21:36:15 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.64.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:26 <Rubidium> and I bet his last lines mean: "please disallow reversing of wagons, but don't touch the others" 21:36:29 * Eddi|zuHause has this feeling that we're talking about a person behind their back :p 21:36:59 <Alberth> in a public channel? ;) 21:37:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: whoever is currently not attending the party :=) 21:37:41 <Alberth> I am so glad I am not always online :p 21:38:00 <Rubidium> and what I propose is closer to the opposite of what I think he wants, than what I suggest to implement in OpenTTD 21:38:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that line doesn't semantically parse properly 21:39:22 <Rubidium> ditch everything after the comma? 21:39:47 <planetmaker> Rubidium: just go by Eddi's suggestion: disallow generally and give NewGRFs a vehicle flag which can be set in order to allow reversing. Sounds clean to me 21:40:02 <Eddi|zuHause> it now reads like: "whatever MB says, i immediately want to do the opposite" 21:40:20 <Rubidium> really? 21:40:32 <Rubidium> s/propose/proposed/? 21:40:48 <Rubidium> my proposal was made before his counter proposal 21:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause> what i have difficulties imagining currently about the whole issue: how is it handled currently when a shortened vehicle is turned around while it is on track, is the offset wrong there, too? 21:44:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean by the "turn around this vehicle" button in the train view 21:44:53 <Alberth> wouldn't all vehicles not be turned 'wrong' then? 21:44:59 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: then the vehicle is "drawn" from the other direction 21:45:44 <Rubidium> not sure how to explain that simply though 21:45:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but if the vehicle only has 4 views? is the sprite and its anchor point mirrored?! 21:46:24 <Rubidium> OpenTTD does not mirror sprites 21:46:52 <Eddi|zuHause> but then the anchor point is not at the beginning of the vehicle, but at the end? 21:47:13 <Rubidium> the "anchor" point for the graphics is the middle of the bounding box 21:47:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and why can't this same thing be done for ctrl+turned vehicles? 21:47:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i mean the point given by xrel/yrel in the grf 21:47:58 <Eddi|zuHause> (if those are the correct names) 21:48:10 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:16 <Rubidium> what happens with a shortened vehicle is that instead of placing the next middle 8 units further, you place it e.g. 3 units further 21:48:47 <Rubidium> which means that the center of the current vehicle is outside of the vehicle 21:50:19 <Rubidium> when you swap the whole train, then the next vehicle is "connected" to the other side (which is why short vehicles always need 8 sprites to not look ugly) 21:50:33 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd34e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 21:51:15 <planetmaker> actually one flag an engine could need is "use push/pull behaviour" which - when set - will not turn the train visually when the drive direction changes 21:51:32 <planetmaker> that'd be a big improvement 21:51:32 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that should be a callback over the whole train 21:51:58 <planetmaker> IMHO it'd need be a property of the lead engine... 21:52:08 <planetmaker> the rest just plays along 21:52:16 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it needs a combination of engine and attached wagons 21:52:21 <planetmaker> why? 21:53:13 <Eddi|zuHause> an engine may be push-pull-eligible, but if there is no steering wagon attached, it cannot be used as such. like an engine with a freight train can't push, but the same engine with a passenger train can 21:53:55 <Eddi|zuHause> callback is run when attaching/detaching wagons in the depot, and then store the result in a cache 21:54:06 <planetmaker> I disagree, Eddi|zuHause 21:54:17 <planetmaker> I could in a shunting way also drive a coal train with one engine backward 21:54:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but the game does not model shunting 21:54:34 <planetmaker> as an engine I'd just query the last vehicle for different speed 21:54:48 <planetmaker> the vehicleID 21:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the game models regular train operation, which is completely separate 21:55:02 <Rubidium> so for the depot (west facing vehicles) it vehicle#2 expects vehicle#1 to "end" (graphically) at the left of vehicle#2's "bounding" box (the 8/8th box). When you turn the whole train around that expectation changes to the right side. However, when you flip vehicle#2 in the depot you'll end up that assuming it is attached to vehicle#1 facing east, whereas it is actually at the other side and facing west 21:55:14 <planetmaker> still. I don't think it's needed to run a CB for all vehicles. That makes it unnecessarily complicated 21:55:25 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: "querying" still needs a callback, not a property 21:56:24 <planetmaker> yes, but not of the whole train. And the engine should decide what to do with the CB result. It should not be required 21:56:40 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe86de00-46.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 21:56:45 <planetmaker> And the train would behave as normal, if the "use shunting" flat is not set 21:56:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: so when turning around the train, the alignment of bounding boxes changes, but when turning around single vehicle, it doesn't? 21:57:01 <planetmaker> if it is set, it'd be up to the engine to decide on the behaviour via CB etc 21:58:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i have a feeling i still didn't understand it. but nvm. 21:58:11 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yes-ish 21:58:34 <Rubidium> just think of it as the sprites are always aligned towards the front of the train 21:58:43 <Rubidium> (thus logically always to the same side) 21:59:21 <Rubidium> but when you flip a single vehicle that single vehile thinks that the front of the train is where the actual tail of the train is 21:59:44 <LordAro> Rubidium/Truebrain: You are the most likely to know: is there a way to access old files on bananas (specifically AroAI 1.0.0(r53) )? 22:00:15 <Rubidium> if you request it specifically with its unique ID 22:00:26 <Rubidium> and md5 checksum 22:00:28 <Wolf01> 'night 22:00:33 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host235-235-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:00:46 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: problem when you define it as a callback of the front engine only, then the front engine must be aware of all wagons in it, even if they are not from the same newgrf. if you have a callback over the whole train, the game querys each wagon individually whether it says "may be at the front/middle/end of a push-pull train", and if all wagons return the correct result, the whole train will be marked push-pull-eligible. if any 22:00:47 <Eddi|zuHause> wagon fails, then it's not. no need to be other-grf-aware 22:01:23 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: what'd be the problem calling a CB on an arbitrary wagon? 22:01:37 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: yes, when loading an old savegame that expects this old file, it can be downloaded. 22:01:40 <planetmaker> if not implemented, the default result is always CB_FAILED 22:01:54 <LordAro> Rubidium: Unique ID= 49415F41, don't have an md5 checksum 22:02:07 *** PhoenixII [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 22:02:07 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:15 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you can't call a callback from within a grf. only the game can call callbacks. 22:02:26 <LordAro> Eddi: don't have a save that would want 1.0.0 over 1.0.2 22:02:41 <Rubidium> then you can't request it, as per the license you've given 22:02:57 <planetmaker> haha :-) 22:03:14 <LordAro> but i'm the author >< 22:03:26 <Rubidium> but OpenTTD doesn't know that 22:03:28 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: the game could know, though :-) a CB to the engine which returns the CB result of the last wagon 22:03:40 <planetmaker> and the game would know which that is 22:03:46 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 22:03:53 <LordAro> so? you do though, and you're the one with access to the files... 22:04:27 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has left #openttd [] 22:04:39 <Rubidium> hmm, are you asking me to get that file specifically? 22:04:55 <LordAro> yes 22:05:43 <LordAro> or at least, anyone with access to the files, as (for some reason) i don't 22:06:04 <LordAro> (i think i, as the author, should) 22:07:50 <Guest118> there is 1 character difference between the iso and dvd image, should i try again? :( 22:08:09 <Rubidium> I would kinda assume that the author has the original files ;) 22:08:46 <LordAro> yes, well, i don't :( its got lost 22:10:34 <Rubidium> LordAro: http://devs.openttd.org/~rubidium/1115.tar.gz 22:10:57 <Guest118> anyboddy have idea what may cause 1 character difference while burning dvd? 22:11:40 <Belugas> night all 22:11:46 <LordAro> Rubidium: thank you 22:15:46 <LordAro> Rubidium: can i also request v1.1.0? 22:17:23 *** andythenorth [~andy@210.64.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 22:17:42 <planetmaker> LordAro: that's available as tag in your repo... why not just build it? 22:18:06 <LordAro> no make 22:18:21 <Alberth> just type the compile commands manually 22:18:30 <LordAro> although, i could just package the files myself i guess 22:25:09 <LordAro> night all 22:26:00 *** LordAro [~kvirc@host86-156-237-49.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:31:04 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:34:48 <Terkhen> good night 22:35:10 <Rubidium> sleep well Terkhen 22:36:35 <planetmaker> g'night 22:39:10 *** hoax [U2FsdGVkX1@dhcp-077-249-151-209.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:50:00 <frosch123> hmm, it would have been more fun if sirkoz called his grf "cheap long and fast bridges" 22:50:02 *** mucht_home [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i always thought bridges were WAAAAY too cheap 22:54:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and we finally need this action1/2/3 support so we can do proper long and high bridges 22:54:33 *** ctibor|spi [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:34 *** afk [~Dre@92.28.100.46] has quit [Quit: Never look down on someone unless you're helping them up.] 22:57:03 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.28.100.46] has joined #openttd 22:57:31 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 22:58:00 <frosch123> night 22:58:42 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd34e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:18 *** afk [~Dre@92.30.71.188] has joined #openttd 23:08:56 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.28.100.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:16:49 *** hoax [U2FsdGVkX1@dhcp-077-249-151-209.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 23:23:18 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@borealis.jontysewell.net] has joined #openttd 23:25:47 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:13 *** andythenorth [~andy@210.64.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 23:29:23 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF89A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:45:12 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BBDD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:41 <Eddi|zuHause> interesting... "molotov coctails" are actually a finnish in-joke :p 23:59:57 <supermop> yep