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00:00:22 <rieksts> Hi, is there any way to turn off messages about vehicles becoming old, while keeping other usefull messages on? 00:00:44 *** afk [~Dre@92.30.71.188] has joined #openttd 00:00:50 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 00:00:52 *** Fast2_ [~Fast2@p57AF8829.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 00:00:56 *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 00:00:57 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.71.188] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:00:57 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:01:06 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFFB97.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:01:10 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B103715.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:01:45 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFFB97.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:02:42 <Belugas> I'M GOING FUCKING HOME FUCKING NOW! 00:02:47 <Belugas> FUCK FUCK FUCK 00:03:10 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B103715.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:03:11 <rieksts> Have fun 00:03:59 <z-MaTRiX> rieksts: sure 00:04:16 <z-MaTRiX> either turn off at the messages or delete from mthe source and recompile 00:05:13 <z-MaTRiX> there is also a setting vehicles never expire i remember 00:06:12 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED662EB.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:06:44 *** Markavian [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:06:52 <__ln__> beware, the last time the US started a war on Canada because of the word 'fuck', as we all remember from the documentary. 00:07:55 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8829.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:10:34 <z-MaTRiX> haha Belugas that is a reason to go home in, or next to the laboratory 00:11:23 <z-MaTRiX> nothing lik 10 seconds to go home ;> 00:12:45 <z-MaTRiX> latest openttdsvn build took real 3m26.444s user 2m25.944s sys 0m21.179s hmmm ;> 00:17:21 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:21:45 *** ar3k [~ident@eda133.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:36:13 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:46:06 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-110-195.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:02:21 <Wolf01> 'night 01:02:27 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host235-235-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 01:02:34 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.11.14.158] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 01:07:43 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:30:01 *** Fast2_ [~Fast2@p57AF8829.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:57:13 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 02:27:38 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 02:33:00 *** JOHN-SHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-172-41.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:52:46 <SmatZ> night 03:10:39 <rieksts> z-MaTRiX: the vehicles never expire option is on. I think this is nothing but an onnoyance if breakdowns are disabled. There should be an option to turn old vehicle messages off, i cant elieve that i am the only one who finds this annoying. 03:11:47 <Eddi|zuHause> rieksts: you can turn off all vehicle messages 03:11:57 <Eddi|zuHause> in the news settings 03:17:38 <rieksts> yes, but as I said earlier i would like to keep the usefull ones 03:26:17 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:dcbe:59f9:fd7e:a502] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:37:44 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n0l.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd 03:42:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i only know settings about checking timetables and profits. but it should be easy to add another one for age 03:46:29 *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:46:58 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-94-248.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 03:47:29 *** thomas001 [~thomas@p5B0F6995.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:54:35 <rieksts> is there any place i can put a suggestion for devs? 04:04:53 <Eddi|zuHause> here, the forum, the bug tracker 04:21:46 <rieksts> ok, thank you for help. 04:21:52 *** rieksts [Davis@d40a5f87.rev.stofanet.dk] has left #openttd [] 05:08:11 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:20:57 *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@coming.soon.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:21:19 *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@coming.soon.it] has joined #openttd 05:21:52 *** z-MaTRiX is now known as Guest298 05:51:23 <Pikka> that peter1138's a spy! 05:52:27 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-94-248.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7412A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7460E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:05:53 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:11:27 *** Guest298 [~matrix@coming.soon.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:12:52 *** z-MaTRiX_ [~matrix@coming.soon.it] has joined #openttd 07:09:14 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B10235A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:14:45 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B103715.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:26:48 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 07:40:39 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe86de00-46.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:50:46 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.112.189.24] has joined #openttd 08:11:34 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 08:20:50 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-223-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:20:50 <Ammler> Guten Morgen :-) 08:28:51 <andythenorth> morningz 08:37:52 <dihedral> good morning 08:39:49 <Terkhen> good morning 08:49:19 <dihedral> Rubidium, is the mention of the move command in fs4464 the reason why it asserts or just a simple way to reproduce the assert? 08:50:31 <dihedral> my fear would be the move command being responsible for it 08:55:37 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:55:40 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:05:29 <andythenorth> busy busy busy: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/lime_kiln.png 09:08:32 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6CC3E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 09:13:41 <Alberth> smokin' ! 09:13:49 <Alberth> moin andy 09:14:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6DFB6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:16:17 <planetmaker> moin 09:35:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A1AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:35:43 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.112.189.24] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:49:11 <Rubidium> dihedral: yes, the move command causes the same assertion as well 09:49:18 <Rubidium> though slightly due to different circumstances 09:49:44 <Rubidium> hmm, well partly... 09:50:13 <Rubidium> the precondition to reset a company (no clients) was met so the command is sent 09:50:22 <Rubidium> with the move command you put someone in the company 09:50:54 <Rubidium> which triggers the same assertions as the initial bankruptcy problem 09:52:52 <Rubidium> and now I look at it... it might even be the case that merging (buying shares) causes trouble 09:59:04 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.112.189.24] has joined #openttd 10:03:48 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:06:39 *** Tennel [~Tennel@farafin-gate.cs.uni-magdeburg.de] has joined #openttd 10:09:08 * andythenorth does hope to ship FIRS 0.6 soon :) 10:09:57 <Alberth> is FISH ready for that job? 10:10:59 <Alberth> perhaps you should extend HEQS with http://www.sinotrailers.com/ 10:11:47 <Alberth> cargo: 'building' :) 10:14:15 <andythenorth> heh 10:20:15 <planetmaker> hehe. I once drove a road, then a care with the sign "house ahead" drove in front of me. two curves later, I saw that it actually was true... 10:20:29 <planetmaker> a half house was driving on such truck in front of me 10:20:40 <planetmaker> s/care/car/ 10:20:51 <Alberth> so they lied :) 10:20:59 <planetmaker> funny thing was that still curtains etc were in the windows... 10:21:17 <planetmaker> hehe, yes :-P 10:22:05 <planetmaker> though maybe the other half was in front of that. It was impossible to look past that ;-) 10:22:46 * andythenorth awaits a delivery from Mr MacKellar 10:22:56 <andythenorth> 1x iron works is expected at noon 10:23:02 <planetmaker> \o/ 10:23:30 <planetmaker> andythenorth: as replacement for the steel mill? Or another industry? 10:23:38 <andythenorth> another industry 10:23:47 <andythenorth> MB was right about the early metal chain 10:23:56 <planetmaker> in what way? 10:24:16 <andythenorth> he said it should be two processing industries not one 10:24:20 <andythenorth> I thought I knew better 10:24:23 <andythenorth> but I was wrong in this case 10:25:37 <planetmaker> aye 10:27:05 *** guyht [~guyht@82.132.139.72] has joined #openttd 10:28:54 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: alberth * r21969 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: Introduce 'minimal' number of industries as a replacment for the old 'none' setting in the newgame window. 10:29:16 <andythenorth> ^ what does it do? sounds good... 10:29:56 <Alberth> it behaves mostly like the old 'none' setting, except it starts with all forced industries instead of 0 industries 10:30:03 <planetmaker> what the name says :-) 10:30:23 * andythenorth likes 10:31:02 <Alberth> perhaps you can explain why it is a good setting 10:31:10 <planetmaker> :-D 10:31:26 <andythenorth> I prefer the word 'minimal' :P 10:31:40 <planetmaker> 'none' still remains ;-) 10:32:01 <andythenorth> heh 10:32:06 <Alberth> ie what's the point of starting without industries if you aim to set up industry cargo chains? 10:32:30 <andythenorth> dunno 10:32:55 <andythenorth> make money on PAX, then fund industry? 10:32:59 <andythenorth> maybe some people like that 10:33:30 <Alberth> that I can understand, which is what the current 'none' does 10:33:33 * planetmaker should de-compile av8... for easier alignment of the new OpenGFX planes 10:34:39 <Alberth> nmlc -d -i av8.grf -o ac8.nml ? :p 10:35:30 <planetmaker> :-P 10:35:40 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 10:35:50 *** guyht [~guyht@82.132.139.72] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 10:35:51 <planetmaker> I just grep-awked the current aircrafts somewhat from nfo to nml ;-) 10:36:27 <planetmaker> -s 10:36:33 <andythenorth> cunning 10:36:44 <planetmaker> real sprites are easy, you know ;-) 10:38:32 <andythenorth> planetmaker....I need sometime soon to face that cb28 patch :( 10:38:44 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21970 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix [FS#4464]: Crash when a multiplayer company goes bankrupt with 'you' in it 10:38:52 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: alberth * r21971 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Fix (r21969): Subversion auto-increments revision on commit. 10:39:18 <planetmaker> uhm... you mean the layout selection? Or what was cb28? 10:39:36 <andythenorth> well there are two approaches 10:39:41 <andythenorth> one is to be able to specify layout 10:40:00 <andythenorth> the other is to have cb28 cycle through layouts until one is allowed (or end if none) 10:40:14 <andythenorth> frosch thought the cb28 route was better 10:40:29 <planetmaker> so do I :-) 10:40:37 <andythenorth> he thought it already *should* do that 10:40:41 <andythenorth> i.e. it's out of spec 10:40:53 <planetmaker> I'd prepare (internally) a list of allowed layouts and then pick one from that 10:41:03 <planetmaker> but it's a bit convoluted 10:41:28 <planetmaker> I looked briefly at it the other day, but then decided that sleep was the better option 10:41:54 <andythenorth> it seems to be a case of moving some code to 1 or 2 new functions 10:41:59 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009cd6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:42:01 <andythenorth> and changing the existing loop 10:42:03 <andythenorth> quak 10:42:07 <planetmaker> quak :-) 10:42:11 <Alberth> quak 10:42:26 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes, somewhat. A function like GetPermissibleLayout() or so should be in order 10:42:52 <andythenorth> I wish I could find the transcript I save :P 10:43:00 <andythenorth> frosch123 gave instructions in it :| 10:43:41 <frosch123> moin :) 10:43:59 <Alberth> computers just shift the problems from not having information to not being able to find it :) 10:44:35 <frosch123> iirc you just had to pass the layout number through a bunch of functions, and move the calling of cb 28 to an earrlier place 10:45:05 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host235-235-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:45:22 <Alberth> moin Wolf01 10:45:30 <Wolf01> hello :D 10:45:33 *** JOHN-SHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-172-41.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 10:46:01 * Alberth makes room for JOHN-SHEPARD 10:47:15 <JOHN-SHEPARD> ;_; 10:52:09 <frosch123> why do we have so many users who harrass other fs reporters, whenever there is a crash report and the log contains the line "grf config changed"? esp. when it is very doubtful the crash is caused by that :s 10:53:25 <Wolf01> do an automatic check for "grf config changed" and reject the bug report with a red error box 10:53:26 <Alberth> trying to be helpful, but utterly clueless ? 10:53:42 <frosch123> Alberth: but it annoys me (dih in this case btw :p ) 10:54:05 <frosch123> if you yell at somenoe else you should at least know what you are talking about 10:54:27 <Alberth> there are more users that add comments about bugs not always relevant to the problem 10:55:16 <Alberth> frosch123: you do? Thizz iszz tze internet man! 10:56:09 <Alberth> I sometimes add comments about such actions :) 11:01:17 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-d9ba6249.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:07:28 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 11:08:01 <dihedral> frosch123, i take your point, and i was not trying to be helpful to be honest 11:08:11 <frosch123> :) 11:08:15 <frosch123> no problem 11:08:35 <dihedral> but i'll refrain from such comments in the future ;-) 11:10:43 <dihedral> however i would not be surprised if people in the forums stumble across that bug report and complain about it not being 'allowed' without setting the developer tools thingy 11:11:07 <dihedral> however crashes being supported in bugs. :-P 11:13:06 <Terkhen> but OpenTTD shouldn't segfault because of that 11:13:31 <dihedral> true :-( 11:15:00 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-4d02165d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:16:27 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8B96.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:25:16 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:35:15 <FauxFaux> What's traffic? ¬_¬ 11:35:17 <FauxFaux> FUUU 11:40:30 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:42:40 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: alberth * r21972 /trunk/src/ (genworld_gui.cpp lang/english.txt table/settings.h): -Fix: Replace 'None' industries in the generation window with more descriptive label. 11:43:02 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.11.14.158] has joined #openttd 11:43:11 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd 11:43:33 <DanMacK> Hey all 11:47:24 <planetmaker> moin DanMacK 11:48:20 <DanMacK> 'tis morning, very early morning :P 11:48:54 <planetmaker> he, quite for you 11:49:09 <planetmaker> and that on the weekend! 11:51:52 <DanMacK> yeah... 11:52:03 <DanMacK> and long shift today :P Gonna be fun, lol 11:55:45 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/lime_kiln_2.png 11:56:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i had to get up early today as well ;) 12:01:00 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-4d02165d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:03:34 <Alberth> a bit massive, isn't it, Andy? 12:07:23 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2F28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:09:36 <andythenorth> it's tall yes 12:11:27 <andythenorth> Alberth: it fits with other buildings ;) 12:11:27 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/lime_kiln_size.png 12:12:35 <Alberth> from a somewhat different style/era :) 12:13:43 <Eddi|zuHause> FIRS buildings in general seem to be fairly tall 12:13:56 <andythenorth> they are 12:14:08 <andythenorth> but they're scaled to houses 12:14:15 <andythenorth> and default industries ;) 12:14:22 <Eddi|zuHause> it looks out of proportion when they are in the middle of empty space 12:14:40 <andythenorth> oh well 12:14:43 <andythenorth> too late now :P 12:15:12 <andythenorth> it would seem odd to draw them at a different scale to the rest of the game 12:15:24 <andythenorth> 'scale' being somewhat flexible I know 12:15:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the houses have different scales all over the place 12:16:29 <Alberth> would it get better if you leave out a few chimneys? (so there is a bit more empty room between them) 12:16:46 <andythenorth> maybe 12:17:25 <Alberth> but all pixels would need to be moved then :( 12:17:58 <andythenorth> it's a funny looking thing anyway: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2753/4121903769_73bf68cab3.jpg 12:18:22 <andythenorth> I think it will look better once there are shadows under it 12:18:29 <andythenorth> currently it is hovering a bit 12:18:55 <andythenorth> i.e. doesn't look like the structure is connected to the ground 12:23:33 <Alberth> yeah that will help a lot 12:27:46 <andythenorth> FIRS website shows nearly as many industries deprecated as included 12:27:57 *** Brianetta [~brian@212.183.140.12] has joined #openttd 12:33:47 <Alberth> once you passed that point, you must make a FIRS:the original grf 12:35:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth: the better structure might be: make one industry list per (major) version - and skip all deprecated stuff 12:35:31 <planetmaker> better overview and one can still go back in time by viewing the stuff in other (older )versions 12:36:28 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'll rework that website one day to do that :) 12:36:47 <andythenorth> although...it kind of does ;) http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/economies 12:39:22 *** fjb is now known as Guest325 12:39:23 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFEC24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:41:14 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 12:44:00 <andythenorth> Alberth: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/lime_kiln_3.png 12:44:02 <andythenorth> no chimneys 12:44:14 <andythenorth> it's easier on the eye 12:44:27 <andythenorth> the chimneys were too much 12:45:01 <Alberth> doesn't a kiln need some chimneys? 12:45:07 <andythenorth> in RL yes 12:45:13 <andythenorth> but it's whatever looks best here... 12:45:21 <andythenorth> I'll try drawing a smaller chimney for it 12:45:30 <andythenorth> or different colour 12:45:46 <planetmaker> andythenorth: is it possible to have quarry / dredging site be the same industry? 12:45:55 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I wondered that 12:45:58 <planetmaker> (just a random idea to save a slot ;-) ) 12:46:14 <andythenorth> I can't see how to resolve that to one string 12:46:16 <andythenorth> is one problem 12:46:26 <andythenorth> 'stone / sand supply' 12:46:27 <andythenorth> ? 12:46:30 *** Guest325 [~frank@p5DDFFB97.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:47:15 <planetmaker> Hm... 12:47:36 <andythenorth> the other issue is that 'build on water' is simply an action 0 flag property 12:48:01 <andythenorth> there would need to be tile checking code written with cb2f to replace it 12:48:55 <andythenorth> it's logical, but maybe not best use of available time? 12:49:12 <planetmaker> probably not :-) 12:49:19 <planetmaker> and there's still 20 slots free :-P 12:50:05 <andythenorth> slots fine 12:50:15 <andythenorth> minimap is a bit hard to use though :( 12:50:22 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=928587#p928587 <-- DanMacK :-) 12:51:39 <planetmaker> I'm still not sure about the Darwin300 size, though 12:52:31 <andythenorth> heh 12:52:36 <andythenorth> I need to add fruit processor 12:52:40 <andythenorth> accepts: fruit 12:52:46 <andythenorth> produces: fruit juice 12:52:47 <andythenorth> jam 12:52:55 <planetmaker> wine. 12:53:01 <planetmaker> schnaps 12:53:18 <planetmaker> :-) 12:54:47 * andythenorth ponders a baking economy 12:54:55 <andythenorth> with flour, sugar and butter as cargos 12:55:12 <andythenorth> salt 12:55:18 <andythenorth> sodium bicarbonate 12:55:23 <andythenorth> yoghurt :P 12:55:32 <andythenorth> chocolate 12:55:38 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-158-77.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:55:57 <andythenorth> *that* would rebalance coal 12:56:28 <V453000> beer should be the most expensive cargo anyway 12:56:31 <V453000> and accepted by HQ 12:56:44 <andythenorth> :o 12:56:46 <andythenorth> that reminds 12:56:54 <andythenorth> I was going to add beer as a cargo to FIRS 12:56:59 <andythenorth> there's room 12:57:01 <V453000> no shit! :) 12:57:42 <SmatZ> beer! 12:59:40 <Terkhen> indeed, the HQ should accept beer 12:59:58 <V453000> andythenorth: I think it would be a favorised change to FIRS :p 13:00:19 <andythenorth> I've been trying to keep 3 cargo slots free 13:00:26 <andythenorth> but it might be worth giving one up for this 13:00:29 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 13:00:56 <Terkhen> beer economy? 13:01:00 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-24-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:01:00 <V453000> ^ 13:01:01 <V453000> ^ 13:01:02 <V453000> ^ 13:01:28 <andythenorth> malt 13:01:29 <andythenorth> hops 13:01:30 <andythenorth> barley 13:01:32 <andythenorth> sugar 13:01:35 <V453000> :)) 13:01:54 <andythenorth> there would need to be a new PAX-like cargo 13:02:09 <andythenorth> 'drunks' 13:02:13 <andythenorth> label: PISD 13:02:30 <V453000> :D 13:02:34 <andythenorth> bah 13:02:42 <V453000> drunkard economy 13:02:43 <V453000> me likes 13:02:49 <andythenorth> NARS 2 regearing was very smart, but it wastes a cargo slot :| 13:02:54 <andythenorth> there should be a better way 13:03:46 <andythenorth> is BEER an express cargo? 13:04:09 <planetmaker> One cargo slot should not hurt really. There'll always be one too few 13:05:37 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-4d02165d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:06:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'd think rather not. 13:07:44 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:3d48:52d2:e4b:b203] has joined #openttd 13:07:46 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:08:56 <andythenorth> BEER: liquid express 13:09:28 <andythenorth> piece goods? 13:09:32 <planetmaker> yes 13:09:43 <planetmaker> barrels or crates 13:09:53 <planetmaker> (crates with bottles) 13:09:56 <dihedral> pipelines 13:10:00 <planetmaker> :-P 13:10:04 <planetmaker> you wish! 13:10:09 <dihedral> :-D 13:10:33 <dihedral> my friends call me 'sahid' :-P 13:12:10 <andythenorth> BAH 13:12:17 <andythenorth> I have to edit the TTDP wiki now 13:12:22 <andythenorth> to add BEER to cargo labels 13:12:49 <Terkhen> :D 13:16:44 <frosch123> beer? isn't that just food? 13:16:53 <V453000> no way 13:17:26 <frosch123> i see, express, piece goods, refridgerated :p 13:17:40 <V453000> and beer 13:17:55 <Alberth> -20 degrees celsius should be enough :) 13:18:03 <andythenorth> there should be a variation depending on language 13:18:07 <planetmaker> hm... beer-ice 13:18:11 <andythenorth> british english doesn't require refridgerated 13:18:13 <andythenorth> :P 13:18:42 <V453000> that is done only with bad beer ... so that you dont feel how bad it is when it is cold :) 13:18:48 <planetmaker> lool @ andythenorth 13:19:07 <andythenorth> I prefer cold beer 13:19:19 <V453000> sure, but frozen beer isnt that good :p 13:20:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: have you seen asterix? ;) 13:21:37 <andythenorth> I have read the books :) 13:26:55 <planetmaker> better than the movies anyway ;-) 13:31:57 <andythenorth> would someone figure out how to make HQ accept beer? 13:36:08 <Eddi|zuHause> has anyone ever tried to make an "economy" without any cargos at all? 13:36:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and checked how horribly it breaks things? :p 13:39:13 <Alberth> we'd all go bankrupt 13:43:10 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21973 /trunk/src/ (settings.cpp table/settings.h): -Fix: Redraw the town authority window after modifying town authority settings. 13:46:20 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21974 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: Add a setting to enable/disable funding local road reconstruction. 13:47:36 *** Brianetta [~brian@212.183.140.12] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 13:49:05 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2F28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 13:49:43 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: easier would be to just modify the cargo payment rates. 13:50:56 <dihedral> Terkhen, that sonds great :-) 13:51:00 <dihedral> *sounds 13:51:16 <Terkhen> thanks, I was sick of doing that by mistake :) 13:52:03 <dihedral> especially good for multiplayer servers :-) 13:53:16 <Terkhen> is there any other town authority action that could be harmful on multiplayer without a setting? 13:54:25 <Rubidium> technically town growing can harm multiplayer 13:54:51 <dihedral> iirc exclusive rights already has a setting, and advertising campain has an influence when competing 13:55:19 <Terkhen> hmm... advertising campaing sounds harmless enough for me 13:55:36 <Terkhen> fund new buildings could get a setting too just for consistency 13:56:07 <frosch123> that setting is very useful in desert :) 13:56:38 <frosch123> s/setting/action/ 13:56:41 <Terkhen> or if town growth is disabled 13:56:53 <dihedral> it has an influence on distribution of cargo to stations though, does it not? 13:57:10 <frosch123> anyway, imo the other stuff does not need settings 13:57:51 <frosch123> if you want to disable advertising you could as well disable the effect of new vehicles on rating 13:58:10 <dihedral> hehe - true :-D 13:58:17 <frosch123> and then the engine speed, and then ... 13:58:23 <dihedral> hehe 14:06:34 *** luckz [~lkz@luckz.de] has joined #openttd 14:13:22 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:13:31 <Nite> Hi 14:14:31 <Nite> typing in the service intervall for individual vehicles rather then click click click ... click click click click, wouldnt it be nice ? 14:25:11 <Alberth> instead of setting a good default in advanced settings? 14:50:24 <Nite> one common default is good but does not always fit all vehicles in game. 14:54:20 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:57:40 <Nite> it would also be quicker if you could hold the tiny buttons down and it would repeat, like holding a key on the keyboard 14:57:53 <Nite> either way it could be faster 14:58:03 <Nite> *busy* 14:59:29 <Alberth> opening a query window seems feasible, there is only one user-changable number in the widget. It's even quite trivial to do. 15:02:23 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:05:18 <Nite> when i was doing strg+klick i expected the value change in hundreds but ... you know ... 15:05:49 <Nite> ... well then i guess someday someone will do that trivial task;) 15:07:04 <Nite> "GUI setting to disable reversing at signals" yeah! thank you! nice!° 15:08:25 <Alberth> changing values in hundreds is pretty useless if the default is less than 200 :) 15:08:41 <Alberth> (except for ships iirc) 15:09:20 <Nite> might be true - typing in for huge changes then would be reasonable. 15:09:31 <Nite> wait 15:09:46 <Nite> why is it useless if you want 720 for example 15:09:54 <Nite> anyway 15:10:45 <Nite> i also often want it off even when its on iun the sever settings and force or order depot stops thus i often need 800 15:11:10 <Nite> but some vehicles will still need aroubnd 150 and autoservice 15:11:47 <Nite> either way i put it, beeing able to set it faster woudl well be faster - nicer. 15:14:32 <andythenorth> cargo units for Alcohol? 15:14:34 <andythenorth> Pints? 15:14:37 <andythenorth> Litres? 15:14:38 <andythenorth> Units? 15:14:41 <andythenorth> Bottles? 15:15:06 <Nite> litres? 15:15:10 <planetmaker> ^ 15:15:37 <planetmaker> whether I ship it in barrels or crates - what matters are still the litres shipped 15:15:48 <Nite> agree 15:15:54 <planetmaker> and the vehicle anyway decides what packaging is used 15:16:03 <andythenorth> ok 15:16:23 <Nite> bottels could be anything from 2cl to some magnum 20liters ... 15:16:39 <planetmaker> :-D 15:17:23 <planetmaker> and then down in one the 20l bottle :-P 15:17:25 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:17:42 <Nite> so it does not descrbe how much you are actually carrying - only litres does that 15:18:02 <Nite> - you would definately simply burst 15:19:11 <supermop> pleasant 15:19:35 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 15:20:04 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 15:23:00 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-4d02165d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:25:39 <Nite> boar the biggest wine bottle regularly produced is 98,5 litres 15:27:19 <andythenorth> alcohol: worth more or less than food in a default economy 15:27:36 <Terkhen> depends on how bad it is :) 15:28:12 <andythenorth> "Finest wines" 15:28:19 <supermop> yeah, assuming alchohol taxes are not really relevant to a common carrier company, 15:28:23 <Terkhen> more expensive IMO 15:28:26 <supermop> I would say a little less? 15:28:50 <Nite> cya i'm off 15:28:53 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip2.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 15:29:02 <supermop> as the tax is added in at the retail phase rather than the mass production level? 15:29:05 <andythenorth> a pint of beer is worth more than a pint of milk 15:29:25 <andythenorth> slightly less then 15:29:31 <andythenorth> :P 15:29:49 <supermop> but most of the cost of that beer is tax 15:30:05 <supermop> rather than the cost to ship or make it relative to milk 15:30:13 <andythenorth> I'll do slightly less than food :) 15:30:19 <supermop> (also some governments subsidize milk) 15:31:45 <andythenorth> so who's writing code for the HQ to accept BEER? 15:32:16 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-57-205.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:32:47 <supermop> ha 15:33:08 <supermop> or champagne when your performance is high enough? 15:33:08 <andythenorth> the default cargo payment rate graph background is low contrast :P 15:33:20 <andythenorth> it's a pleasing mid grey 15:33:32 <andythenorth> but I've run out of good colour choices for cargos on it 15:33:51 <supermop> i always found it hard to read even with default cargo 15:34:48 *** FloSoft [bouncer@www.siedler25.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:28 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-71-20.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 15:36:49 *** FloSoft [bouncer@www.siedler25.org] has joined #openttd 15:38:08 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-158-77.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:42:53 <planetmaker> mostly the font there is too small IMHO 15:45:11 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:17 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:48:15 *** ar3k [~ident@aeru224.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 15:57:23 * andythenorth wonders 15:57:32 <andythenorth> should brewery produce only alcohol 15:57:36 <andythenorth> or alcohol and food? 15:59:08 <planetmaker> beer is food and no beverage :-P 16:02:23 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite 16:02:23 <dihedral> sadly you cannot turn that around -> food is beer? :-P 16:02:32 * dihedral loves marmite :-) 16:03:17 <Rubidium> beer is nuclear waste 16:03:28 <planetmaker> urgs... marmite :-( 16:03:46 <dihedral> marmite on toast - yumm :) 16:04:23 <planetmaker> but only when marmite is replaced by maple sirup before consumption 16:04:55 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-4d02165d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:05:23 <dihedral> nopes 16:06:04 <andythenorth> this is making me hungry :P 16:07:49 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21975 /trunk/src/ (5 files): 16:07:49 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Add: console command to reset the engine pool. It removes the traces of engines 16:07:49 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: which are no longer associated to a NewGRF, and can be used to e.g. 'fix' 16:07:49 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: scenarios which were screwed up by the author. You can only use it when there 16:07:49 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: are no vehicles in the game though. 16:10:31 <andythenorth> how do I do some climate specific action 7 nonsense? 16:11:49 <planetmaker> just check skip the following sprites, if not the matching climate 16:12:26 <andythenorth> I think I've got it 16:12:30 <andythenorth> always seems clunky :P 16:12:56 <planetmaker> it's one line. Or two, if you define via action 10 a target to jump to. That might be safer. 16:12:58 <andythenorth> bah 16:13:07 <andythenorth> sugar refinery now produces coal :P 16:13:12 <planetmaker> :-D 16:13:49 <planetmaker> definitely possible. Though the intermediate stage is caramel 16:14:52 <DanMacK> lol 16:15:51 *** HalfBit [~hb@201-43-240-176.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #openttd 16:16:22 <supermop> sounds fine, just have a several million year delay between delivering cargo, and production of coal 16:19:23 <planetmaker> ;-) 16:21:11 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: alberth * r21976 /trunk/src/ (roadveh.h roadveh_cmd.cpp train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Doc: Document several crash handling functions. 16:21:53 <Alberth> wouldn't caramel burn just as well? 16:22:52 <supermop> well, you would need more volume of caremel to get a certain number of joules out 16:23:27 <Prof_Frink> Marmite! 16:30:41 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:30:53 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host235-235-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 16:30:53 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest352 16:30:53 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 16:31:56 *** Markavian [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:32 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:39 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd 16:36:50 *** Guest352 [~wolf01@host235-235-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:36:54 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21977 /trunk/src/ (main_gui.cpp smallmap_gui.cpp viewport_gui.cpp window.cpp): -Codechange: Always cal Window::OnMouseWheel(), independent of viewport scroll/zoom settings. 16:39:03 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 16:49:12 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:49:17 <Nite> Hi 16:50:02 <Nite> iam amazed how fast and smooth the 1.1.0 betas run, even when fully zoomed out 16:50:12 <Nite> is it major code changes? 16:50:40 <planetmaker> no ;-) 16:51:01 <planetmaker> possibly you just started and empty and / or smaller game? 16:51:10 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 16:51:57 <Nite> no, it simply runs faster for me ... also teh saving works properly now for me 16:52:50 <Nite> has it just gotten faster by esotherics? 16:53:27 <planetmaker> saving might be faster... it was better moved to a separate thread IIRC 16:53:45 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-d9ba6249.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:54:58 <Nite> just was shown the "display chain" feature - "awwww" 16:55:24 <Nite> it might take long until trying out every new feature 16:57:21 <Nite> btw the "link to smal map" button does not jump back if u close the small map, or is it a feature i do not get? 16:58:41 <Nite> ...and, is it true i cannot laod any 1.0 game in 1.1 ? 16:59:25 <Nite> no (to answer my own question) 16:59:32 <Nite> just some newgrfs where missing 17:00:14 <Nite> finding newgrfs for savegames as for multiplayer games (?) 17:01:02 <Nite> ok worked 100% 17:01:14 <Nite> iam so amazed by 1.1 :D 17:04:38 <supermop> 1.1 is out already? 17:04:52 <supermop> i have not been paying much attention... 17:05:03 <Nite> i mean the 1.1.0 beta 5 17:05:23 <Nite> but iam sure the features in the betas mostly go to 1.1 17:18:59 *** ar3k [~ident@aeru224.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:19:26 *** ar3k [~ident@aeru224.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 17:23:36 *** ar3k [~ident@aeru224.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:24:21 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2F28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:26:26 *** ar3k [~ident@aeru224.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 17:28:11 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:29:21 <Nite> why are there now two little arrows in the order list ? 17:29:21 *** ar3k [~ident@aeru224.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:29:52 *** lewymati [~lewymati@dynamic-78-8-158-110.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #openttd 17:30:30 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8B96.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:31:28 *** ar3k [~ident@aeru224.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 17:34:27 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21978 /trunk/src/console_gui.cpp: -Codechange/Fix: Remove usage of Window::top and left from IConsoleWindow::OnPaint(). Drawing is done relative to the window position. But as the position is (0,0) anyway, it was not noticeable. 17:35:38 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@241.248.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 17:36:36 *** supermop___ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:36:43 <frosch123> Nite: do distinguish real from automatic orders 17:37:46 <frosch123> if you do not know about automatic orders: build a route without non-stop orders between two stations and a bunch of stations between them, where the vehicle will halt due to not using non-stop 17:41:18 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21979 /trunk/src/console_gui.cpp: -Fix: Scrolling of the console in pages used wrong line height and scrolled too much. 17:43:50 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2F28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:44:08 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2F28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:44:57 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21980 /trunk/src/console_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Draw one line more at the top of the console, i.e. clip the top-most line if there is not enough room instead of not drawing it at all. 17:46:01 <Nite> i do that a lot with pax frosch, so i will probably soon see what the arrows mean, i guess 17:47:23 <Nite> i just noticed the current "train aciton view" makes artefacts when the information changes :-/ 17:49:52 <Nite> like its written over when the length changes due to speed changes 17:50:30 <frosch123> you mean the statusbar of the vehicle window? 17:51:35 <Nite> yes the bar where you start stop the vehicle ... says: "current train action" on hover/right click 17:51:40 <dihedral> anybody familiar with sabayon linux? 17:53:43 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21981 /trunk/src/console_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Deduplicate the code and unify the bounds of console scrolling. 17:54:49 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21982 /trunk/src/console_gui.cpp: -Add: Wheel scrolling to console. 17:56:04 <Nite> just saw what automatic stop is 17:56:14 <Nite> ist also greyed out here 17:56:19 <Nite> noice 17:58:20 <Nite> do the automatic stops do anything new exept showing me that it is there? 17:58:50 <frosch123> they are only information to the user, they have no effect on the vehicle's route 17:59:03 <frosch123> (at least for now) 17:59:12 <Nite> ok ic 17:59:20 <Nite> (at least for now) 18:00:08 <Nite> (converting them to real order ...) 18:01:34 <Nite> well they have a littel use even 18:01:57 <Nite> you can more easily skip them while a vehicle does the stop 18:03:23 *** Tennel [~Tennel@farafin-gate.cs.uni-magdeburg.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:05:08 <dihedral> frosch123, i like your commits :-) 18:08:25 <Nite> its good that autostops are greyed out otherwise they woudl be confusing, but can i switch the display of them on or off? 18:10:11 <frosch123> no, and it is not a good idea to hide them in general 18:10:46 <frosch123> but one could add an option to collapse them 18:11:18 <frosch123> like: hide all automatic orders except the current one 18:11:54 <Nite> i always used much of the automatic(forced) orders without seeing them 18:12:27 <Nite> only having ordered the two end stations having many in beetween 18:12:38 <Nite> thats why my intrest 18:32:42 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:42:36 *** guyht [~guyht@82.132.139.137] has joined #openttd 18:46:05 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: translators * r21983 /trunk/src/lang/ (14 files): (log message trimmed) 18:46:05 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:46:05 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: belarusian - 6 changes by Wowanxm 18:46:05 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: czech - 4 changes by CrazyBenny 18:46:05 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: english_US - 3 changes by Rubidium 18:46:07 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: estonian - 7 changes by notAbot 18:46:07 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: finnish - 5 changes by jpx_ 18:53:11 *** guyht [~guyht@82.132.139.137] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:01:09 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-d9ba6249.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:01:46 *** HalfBit [~hb@201-43-240-176.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:04 <Nite> ... still the train status does not update correctly graphics wise, cannot see the exact train speed (+artefacts) 19:12:22 <Hirundo> http://bugs.openttd.org/ 19:21:39 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-d9ba6249.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:54 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30:27 <Nite> teh automatic order display sometimes accumulates showing 6 automatic orders for just one station 19:31:03 <Nite> its messy 19:36:16 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r21984 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix: Compilation without AI was broken 19:37:23 <Nite> like this: i placed a new busstop now many buses that shared orders in that area found the stop and sudenly 6 new automatic orders where shown 19:39:44 <Nite> and they stillfind new automatic orders even all busstations are ordered now ... every time they go to depotservice and back out ... 19:40:11 <planetmaker> do you play with 1.1.0-beta5? 19:40:16 <Nite> information is good, but only when it doesent get in yor way ... 19:40:22 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd 19:40:27 <Nite> yes i play 1.1.0 beta5 19:41:32 <Nite> i like the ability to show automatic stops just not "always" 19:41:47 <Rubidium> then use non-stop orders 19:42:10 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:42:15 <andythenorth> Alberth: any better? http://tt-foundry.com/misc/lime_kiln_4.png 19:42:23 <Nite> then vehicles woudl not stop at all 19:42:27 <andythenorth> previous version: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/lime_kiln_2.png 19:43:03 <Alberth> the green is much more friendly I think 19:43:21 <planetmaker> yep 19:43:22 <Alberth> and the darker chimneys are better 19:43:30 <Nite> the blue is easier to spot in the grass though 19:43:43 <andythenorth> company colour - it's randomised on construction 19:43:49 <planetmaker> he :-P 19:44:00 <Nite> random is fin yeah 19:44:02 <supermop___> i like it 19:44:13 <andythenorth> another winner :) 19:44:13 <planetmaker> To me it feels very high, but that might just be me 19:44:22 <andythenorth> I have more to do to it 19:44:25 <andythenorth> it is high 19:44:26 <planetmaker> I'd cut away the upper storey 19:44:30 <supermop___> the old neolithic one could be appropriate for early games with more noise added 19:44:32 <andythenorth> but not higher than other FIRS buildings 19:44:36 <andythenorth> it's just very thin :P 19:44:44 <Nite> what is that building supposed to be? 19:44:54 <Alberth> I like it 19:44:55 <planetmaker> what the file name tells you 19:45:11 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:45:11 <Nite> ah a lime klni 19:45:15 <andythenorth> I could knock the legs off the kilns 19:45:15 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:45:24 <andythenorth> and move it down a bit 19:45:37 <andythenorth> I'll do that 19:45:43 <Nite> its for ecs or firs? 19:45:54 <andythenorth> which do you think? 19:45:58 <Nite> ecs 19:46:00 <planetmaker> look up the credits of both sets... 19:46:04 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:21 <planetmaker> 0 points. Please sit down 19:46:33 <planetmaker> ;-) 19:47:40 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@adsl-99-58-238-243.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:52:39 <Nite> i did NOT mean the automaticorder display is buged 19:53:08 <Nite> its just logical that vehicles will find automatic stops while going back from a depot stop 19:53:37 <Nite> but do you want this ... 19:53:48 <Nite> stops nagging now :x 19:55:47 <Nite> i woudl say there are two phases; one where you plan and make your orders and do not want to see autoanything popping up, and anotherone where you watch how the orders work and want to see where autostops are done ... 19:56:36 <Alberth> I always add all stations to the order list 19:58:13 <Nite> even then trains might find a way to autostop - complex systems are fun 19:59:33 <Eddi|zuHause> not when you also use non-stop when assigning all orders anyway 19:59:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you can also use service at depot orders 20:00:09 <Eddi|zuHause> at the stop that is nearest to the depot 20:00:30 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@99.129.154.194] has joined #openttd 20:00:36 <Nite> true there can be systems without any autostops at all, and many work that way ... 20:01:00 <Nite> i use forced depots almost always 20:01:14 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... need to take care of {black,gray}-furry-thing-that-is-bored-and-makes-miau 20:02:36 <Nite> ok forced tdepot stops do not show as autodepotorder 20:04:04 <Nite> hm ... need to take care of {blond,brunette}-skinny-thing-that-is-bored-and-> tries to paint my face with black lipstick. 20:07:45 <andythenorth> better? 20:07:45 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/lime_kiln_5.png 20:07:54 <andythenorth> previous: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/lime_kiln_4.png 20:08:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it looked less tall with the intermediate level 20:08:44 <Alberth> the previous was more unique 20:09:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and what is the meaning of the gray block? 20:09:19 <Alberth> you already have many high round tuby things 20:09:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and is it gray or grey? i never remember right... 20:09:24 <andythenorth> the original: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2753/4121903769_73bf68cab3.jpg 20:09:35 <andythenorth> but there's no need to stick to RL 20:09:40 <andythenorth> it's whatever looks best in game... 20:10:04 <andythenorth> I think without the middle storey it just looks like a grain silo or whatever 20:10:16 <Alberth> yes 20:10:49 * andythenorth reverts 20:12:37 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d8225cf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:14:24 <Nite> original also looks quite high ... 20:14:40 <Nite> but right there is no greyblock 20:15:34 <Nite> and all the windows make it special i think 20:15:56 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 20:16:18 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:16:20 <andythenorth> I'm going to add the windows 20:16:57 <andythenorth> the grey block was a copy-paste cheat to avoid some drawing :P 20:17:30 <Nite> how do you draw such pixelart? 20:18:19 <Alberth> one pixel at a time 20:19:32 <andythenorth> Nite: you mean which app? 20:19:34 <Alberth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=DrawingSprites 20:19:37 <andythenorth> or something else? 20:19:39 <Nite> software? 20:19:43 <Nite> app? 20:20:35 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:03 <andythenorth> I use photoshop 20:21:08 <andythenorth> other people use simpler tools 20:21:16 <andythenorth> I like photoshop :D 20:22:50 <Nite> kk adobe suit for pixelart - nice ;) 20:26:04 <andythenorth> it's overkill 20:26:07 <andythenorth> but I know photoshop 20:27:28 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21985 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use VehicleOrderID where appropiate. 20:28:25 <supermop> i am same as above 20:28:40 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/lime_kiln_6.png 20:28:44 <andythenorth> less height 20:28:48 <andythenorth> no grey block 20:29:23 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think we're heading in the right direction :) 20:30:20 <andythenorth> what's this 'we' business :P 20:30:22 <andythenorth> ;D 20:30:53 <Nite> fine now some detail (windoz) 20:31:52 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 20:34:03 <andythenorth> all in good time ;) 20:35:26 <supermop> piles in the front yard? 20:35:37 <andythenorth> piles, tanks, offices 20:35:42 <andythenorth> a digger 20:35:44 <andythenorth> stuff 20:37:13 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21986 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp engine_base.h strings.cpp): -Codechange: Add helper function to test whether an engine is still associated to a GRF. 20:37:25 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:38:21 <dihedral> frosch123, how could an engine all of a sudden not be associated with a grf anymore? 20:38:43 <frosch123> well, associated to a present grf 20:39:02 <planetmaker> andythenorth: wrt #6: the choote(? - how does one spell it?) looks a bit detached to me 20:39:10 <andythenorth> yeah 20:39:23 <andythenorth> the perils of posting work-in-progress :D 20:39:26 <frosch123> i.e. when grfs are missing, got removed, or incompatible 20:39:55 <dihedral> well, 'get removed' surely should not be the case :-P 20:40:16 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: what if the grf author said the grf must be incompatible with any release builds? 20:41:21 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: then, load a game from nightly in release -> grf gets deactivated 20:41:27 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21987 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: Make news items, engine previews and AI preview events deal with no longer existing Engine items after resetting the pool. 20:42:02 <dihedral> ah :-) 20:42:13 <dihedral> interesting - why should the savegame then at all load? 20:42:36 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: the savegame doesn't know that the grf will deactivate after loading 20:42:37 <dihedral> would that not render a savegame only compatible to that very version of openttd in combination of grf's? 20:42:44 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: it can only detect whether the grf is present 20:43:18 <dihedral> i thought OpenTTD would be able to detect that - if required grf were available, before loading 20:43:37 <dihedral> well - that is part of the loading process, ok :-P 20:43:56 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: "available" == "file with correct md5 is present". not "file is present and we can guarantee it won't execute an action B" 20:47:21 <Nite> searching for missing grfs worked for me befre flawlessly with a 1.0 savegame ... btw 20:50:00 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@241.248.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:53:17 <Nite> cya 20:53:20 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 20:53:38 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 21:01:54 *** test [~opera@p54958501.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:06:46 *** test [~opera@p54958501.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #openttd [] 21:07:37 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21988 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Change: Disable smooth scrolling for GHK_CENTER_ZOOM when zooming is also involved. 21:14:07 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21989 /trunk/src/ground_vehicle.hpp: -Fix (r21954): Vehicle status bar glitches on speed changes. 21:17:49 <V453000> hello there, is the counting of train length in depots selectable in the 1.1.0 beta5? 21:18:00 <V453000> I mean, is it possible to swap it back to the original? 21:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause> no 21:18:21 <V453000> uhm 21:18:22 <V453000> okay 21:18:28 <planetmaker> nope. Is it needed? 21:18:35 <Eddi|zuHause> because counting halftiles is silly. 21:18:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it has no value whatsoever in gameplay 21:18:54 <andythenorth> it's good to practice maths :D 21:19:23 <SmatZ> halftiles are important for curves 21:19:23 <V453000> well, sometimes it is actually useful to have 4.5 tile trains 21:19:28 <V453000> and for curves 21:19:40 <planetmaker> 4 + wagon ;-) 21:19:49 <V453000> well, yes 21:20:03 <V453000> the original was just much more obvious :( 21:20:09 <SmatZ> with short vehicles, it's not that easy 21:20:11 <planetmaker> and the old system wasn't accurate either as the wagon lengths are in 1/8 quantiles and... a tile has 16/8 length 21:20:14 <Eddi|zuHause> show fractional values: 4 8/16 ;) 21:20:17 <SmatZ> sometimes it could even be 4+2 wagons 21:20:32 <V453000> ok, could I ask you to make it optional? 21:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause> should be possible to do. 21:21:34 <frosch123> then i would prefer to display something like "4 + 3/8" or similar 21:21:50 <V453000> that would be actually amazing, frosch :) 21:21:52 <frosch123> "4 + 3/16" actually 21:22:24 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i said 21:23:13 <V453000> could you please implement that? :) I already experienced flaws even with the older one 21:23:31 <V453000> tropic refurbishment set had officially "4", but slowed down in some curves for 2tile trains 21:23:47 <V453000> with the iron ore wagons which obviousl have some weird length :) 21:23:49 <frosch123> it makes the number quite long tohugh 21:24:22 <V453000> well, that does indeed, but if you make it optional so anyone can change it as he likes, they cant really complain :) 21:26:02 <V453000> could even make it "4+3" and make the setting either hidden in cfg or heavily explained :p 21:26:47 <frosch123> the idea was to remove stupid settings 21:27:18 <V453000> that is a nice intention, but the halftile counter sometimes really helps a lot 21:27:44 <V453000> I understand that it confused some newbies ... I personally had no problems with it even when I started with openttd 21:28:05 <V453000> and when it counts every wagon with original trains, it makes much more sense in my opinion 21:28:41 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe86de00-46.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 21:30:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i agree with all your arguments, except the last one 21:30:53 <V453000> that is just a matter of taste I suppose :) 21:30:58 <Eddi|zuHause> the newbie will care about length of trains wrt length of station 21:31:23 <V453000> I just like that when I click something, the numbers change, so it is obvious I did something :) just some "gui preferrence" 21:31:47 <Rubidium> it didn't with the previous variant either 21:32:10 <Rubidium> reliably for every non 8/8 vehicle 21:33:55 <V453000> simply: Can I kindly ask you to make this an option one could select? Thank you 21:34:37 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 21:35:40 <planetmaker> what could be changed that roundup is used as that matters for stations 21:35:49 <planetmaker> (if it isn't used) 21:36:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it always rounds up already 21:36:04 <planetmaker> at least that it goes by the same thing as station penalty 21:44:17 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/consistlengths.png <- looks stupid :p 21:46:27 <Eddi|zuHause> nah, always extend to /16 21:47:06 <frosch123> well, for normal vehicles length like 5 1/2 would be nice 21:47:23 <frosch123> but starting with /8 and /16 it gets bad :) 21:47:38 <Eddi|zuHause> hm. maybe. but remove the leading 0 then 21:48:11 <V453000> that looks pretty neat :) 21:49:02 *** TruePikachu [~chris@cpe-67-49-42-88.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:49:24 <TruePikachu> (wow, I'm surprised I remembered the server name) 21:50:17 <TruePikachu> Oh great, ALSA is failing...I have to reboot... 21:50:30 *** TruePikachu [~chris@cpe-67-49-42-88.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 21:50:49 <Eddi|zuHause> thank you for these interesting and helpful statements. 21:51:14 <V453000> good news: he is gone, bad news: he will be probably back 21:53:03 *** TruePikachu [~chris@cpe-67-49-42-88.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:53:17 <TruePikachu> Sorry about the join/quit 21:54:15 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the problem with normalising fractions is that you can't easily compare the numbers in your head anymore. whether 3/4 is larger or smaller than 9/16 21:54:32 <TruePikachu> 3/4 is larger 21:55:12 <TruePikachu> But that is ovious because 9/16 is 3/4 squared, with both between 0 and 1 21:55:18 <TruePikachu> *obvious 21:55:33 <Alberth> the 'whole' part needs to be vertically aligned on its own 21:56:09 <Eddi|zuHause> alignment may be troublesome 21:56:10 <Alberth> TruePikachu: before you say more, please see http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/consistlengths.png 21:56:34 <TruePikachu> ...I literally just got OTTD restarted... 21:57:16 <ccfreak2k> Unitless numbers! 21:57:27 <TruePikachu> O_o 21:57:54 <Alberth> yeah, multiply by 16 21:57:58 <planetmaker> ccfreak2k: [1] :-P 21:58:20 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: the unit is tiles 21:59:09 <TruePikachu> Oh, I can see where you're coming from... 21:59:14 <planetmaker> last week I saw a marvel where units were written, but nicely ignored - with the result that the Power was written in m/s 21:59:17 * andythenorth does order a delivery of win: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/lime_kiln_7.png 22:00:23 <ccfreak2k> I hope the pink one is strawberry-flavored. 22:00:23 <TruePikachu> I actually would advocate for 3 decimal places, but w/e 22:00:24 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: how is alignment troublesome? "/16" is fixed, so you need enough width for 0..15 and a bit white space 22:00:34 <Wolf01> 'night 22:00:38 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host235-235-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:01:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: so when you only have whole numbers, you waste a lot of space 22:01:32 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 22:01:41 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:01:41 <Alberth> does that ever happen? 22:01:44 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 22:01:44 <planetmaker> hm 22:01:52 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the pink one looks ugly 22:02:09 <andythenorth> hey ho 22:02:11 <andythenorth> them's the breaks 22:02:13 <supermop> so do pink busses 22:02:20 <Alberth> andythenorth: looks good, but the grey windows are somewhat non-visible with all except pink and yellow-ish 22:02:22 <andythenorth> I have code to prevent some industry colours being used 22:02:23 <supermop> but we live with them 22:02:53 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/consistlengths2.png <- aligned 22:02:56 <andythenorth> we are already spared cream and lilac / mauve colours by my code 22:04:42 <Alberth> frosch123: nicely readable, but so much details seems somewhat overkill to me 22:04:56 <frosch123> yup :p 22:05:50 <frosch123> it's too busy 22:05:50 <Alberth> we should have a measurement tooltip here :) 22:06:23 <planetmaker> hm, I notice that the buttons on the right scale... not equally 22:06:43 <frosch123> planetmaker: yes, the hardly used ones stay small 22:06:56 <planetmaker> hardly? 22:07:02 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: looks nice, but the leading 0 is still weird 22:07:13 <andythenorth> wow 22:07:16 <andythenorth> lots of information :o 22:07:18 <planetmaker> I use them about equally if not sell all often 22:07:54 <andythenorth> I use sell all most often 22:08:02 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: actually i readded it, as it looked weird without 22:08:12 <Alberth> but that is not a drop target 22:08:21 <andythenorth> it's quite...busy 22:08:40 <andythenorth> what is this information? 22:08:56 <planetmaker> consist length 22:08:56 <Alberth> length down to the last millimeter 22:09:05 <andythenorth> he 22:09:15 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the scaling buttons are the drag&drop targets. the other ones are normal buttons 22:09:19 <andythenorth> I hope you've got a routine to check screen dpi + resolution then : 22:09:21 <andythenorth> :P 22:09:26 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:15 * andythenorth does think bed time 22:10:28 * Alberth thinks that too 22:11:04 * Eddi|zuHause thinks doing something sensible with the computer, but gray-furry-thing-that-makes-miau is blocking the chair 22:11:25 <andythenorth> good night 22:11:32 <Alberth> good night andy 22:11:41 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.112.189.24] has left #openttd [] 22:12:08 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: doing non-sensible things is ok at this time of day 22:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yeah, but i have not done anything sensible all day 22:13:38 <Alberth> the gray-furry-thing-that-makes-miau has been claiming you all day? 22:15:40 <Eddi|zuHause> nah... people-who-want-to-be-dropped-at-the-airport-in-the-early-morning did 22:16:29 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 22:17:04 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:17:55 <__ln__> sounds like a business idea for ryanair, dropping people at the airport to save airport taxes 22:18:27 <TruePikachu> I'm just wondering, but why is the minimum company value 2$ = 1 Euro? 22:20:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the values are in 1£ internally. all other currencies are factors 22:21:23 <Eddi|zuHause> so 2â¬, 2$, etc. 22:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> occasionally these factors are adapted to match real world exchange rates more closely 22:22:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but it must be whole numbers 22:38:12 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@115.127.166.178.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 22:50:39 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:36 <ABCRic> hmm... 22:51:40 <ABCRic> channel topic needs updating :) 22:52:17 *** planetmaker changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.0.5, 1.1.0-beta5 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only 22:52:23 <planetmaker> you were right 22:57:31 *** supermop___ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop___] 23:03:05 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21990 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Cleanup (r14085): Remove unneeded test. 23:05:47 <dihedral> he's on a spree today 23:08:01 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d8225cf.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:08:03 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@115.127.166.178.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:12 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d8225cf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 23:09:03 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-71-20.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:10:30 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@115.127.166.178.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 23:10:43 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21991 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#4466]: The share/copy-orders-cursor was not updated to refer to the new vehicle when it got autoreplaced/-renewed. 23:10:59 <frosch123> so much for your change-newgrfs-ingame task :p 23:11:27 <planetmaker> haha :-) 23:12:47 <dihedral> hehe 23:13:13 <__ln__> A WARNING SPOTTED WHILE COMPILING strings.cpp!! 23:14:02 <frosch123> downgrade/upgrade your compiler 23:15:01 <__ln__> not possible 23:15:10 <SmatZ> __ln__: what warning? 23:15:24 <planetmaker> SmatZ: I fear the usual gcc 4.0.1 warning which is bogus 23:15:30 <planetmaker> yes, it started to appear also there ;-) 23:15:31 <SmatZ> planetmaker: :-( 23:15:47 <__ln__> 'b' may be used uninitialized in this function 23:16:00 <SmatZ> those are invalid, and described in known-bugs.txt 23:16:06 <planetmaker> __ln__: yes, that. 23:16:33 <planetmaker> gcc 4.2 doesn't know that 23:16:41 <planetmaker> but it doesn't compile ppc either 23:16:47 <SmatZ> hmm no, not in known-bugs.txt, it seems 23:17:04 <planetmaker> but I remember well that we established it as compiler bug 23:17:27 <SmatZ> readme.txt 23:17:30 <SmatZ> - GNU Compiler Collection (GCC) 3.3 - 4.6. 23:17:31 <SmatZ> Versions 4.1 and earlier give bogus warnings about uninitialised variables. 23:17:33 <__ln__> it certainly looks like the warning is not true. 23:18:29 <planetmaker> maybe it should be added to the known-bugs.txt? As old(er) osx can't work around that 23:19:32 <SmatZ> it's in readme.txt , in the "Compiling" section 23:19:42 <planetmaker> :-) 23:19:46 <SmatZ> anyone willing to compile openttd is expected to read that :p 23:19:48 <planetmaker> thanks for looking for it 23:19:54 <SmatZ> :) 23:20:17 <__ln__> err, why is the "[OSX] SDL port is unuseable" listed in known-bugs.txt as a blocker for even thinking about OS X support again? 23:20:39 <planetmaker> it's rather an indicator than a blocker 23:21:02 <planetmaker> and mostly SDL was / is broken. An update to SDL solved parts of it 23:21:26 <__ln__> i very well know what the bug is about 23:22:00 <__ln__> "Issues prefixed with [OSX] are required to be fixed before we consider officially supporting Mac OS X again. For now it remains unsupported and 23:22:17 <__ln__> we only apply bug fixes provided by the community but we are unable to fix these bugs ourselves. 23:22:24 <__ln__> - 3447[OSX] SDL port is unuseable" 23:22:50 <__ln__> it doesn't make any fucking sense in that context. 23:23:33 <planetmaker> Then add "[OSX] Cursor visibility issues with PPC builds" instead 23:23:45 <__ln__> now that would be a lot better candidate. 23:24:11 <SmatZ> :( 23:25:58 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A1AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:04 <__ln__> so if somebody compiled the Windows port using SDL (which it doesn't use by default either), and found a problem, would that be a blocker for new Windows releases (which do not use SDL)? 23:30:00 <__ln__> does anyone agree or disagree with me even a bit? 23:31:28 <planetmaker> well, I think you're right. And now? ;-) 23:31:34 <SmatZ> yes 23:31:45 <planetmaker> damn, I spoilt it :-( 23:31:55 * planetmaker hugs SmatZ :-) 23:32:00 <SmatZ> :-) 23:32:04 <SmatZ> nah :) 23:32:15 *** lewymati [~lewymati@dynamic-78-8-158-110.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [] 23:33:07 <__ln__> thanks 23:33:43 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:33:43 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d8225cf.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:12 <__ln__> now could the summary of 3447 be changed to something like "[OSX] ~ 23:35:18 <__ln__> argh 23:36:00 <__ln__> now could the summary of 3447 be changed to something like "[OSX] the unused SDL port is unusable" 23:37:04 <SmatZ> why does that bother you? 23:38:09 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2F28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 23:38:31 <SmatZ> it's not "unused" anyway 23:38:58 <frosch123> "[OSX] ~ argh" sounds fine to me 23:39:16 <__ln__> frosch123: yes, that summarizes everything very nicely 23:39:21 <SmatZ> frosch123: :D 23:39:30 <planetmaker> :-P 23:39:37 <ABCRic> xD 23:39:38 <__ln__> SmatZ: but it is, on OS X. you'll have to go through trouble to enable it. 23:40:20 *** Wazz [~wacek@dustpuppy.if.uj.edu.pl] has joined #openttd 23:40:35 <Wazz> Hey, guys! I'm playing OpenTTD with my friends, and we're playing the tropical setting in the '70s 23:40:35 <planetmaker> if you can tell me why my re-structuring of the video drivers broke ppc and fixes intel, I'd be very glad to hear :-) 23:40:44 <planetmaker> congratulations, wazz 23:40:45 <Wazz> There are only like 3 train car types! What's wrong? 23:40:46 <planetmaker> :-) 23:40:50 <Wazz> planetmaker: ;-) 23:41:34 <planetmaker> Wazz: any newgrfs? 23:41:39 <Wazz> Nope 23:41:49 <Wazz> Well, only one that I have downloaded, but I haven't applied it 23:42:00 <__ln__> SmatZ: i think it's good that 3447 is there and it can be shown to the occasional persons who come saying SDL should be used on OSX. but what bothers me is that that bug gets so much attention by people who do not realize the "unusable"-state is completely irrelevant in practice. 23:42:10 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:42:27 <planetmaker> did you change any newgrfs on the map (remove)? 23:42:46 <Wazz> I don't think so 23:42:50 <planetmaker> i.e. can you provide a savegame? 23:43:37 <SmatZ> __ln__: sorry, I don't know much about that OSX stuff :-x 23:43:56 <SmatZ> I just know there have been various problems with it 23:43:58 <Wazz> planetmaker: I'll save the game and consult it with my friend taking this into consideration :-) I'll get back to you in a bit! 23:44:13 <ABCRic> __ln__: then change it to "[OSX] [unimportant] SDL port is unuseable" :P 23:44:53 <SmatZ> also I think adding anything to the bug summary is not needed 23:45:10 <SmatZ> "[OSX] SDL port is unuseable" is true 23:45:41 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: well, technically it is a blocker for maintaining OSX, since because of SDL being unusable there is OSX specific code needed, but there is no OSX-specific maintainer 23:45:50 <planetmaker> for certain definitions of 'unusable' ;-) 23:46:19 <planetmaker> it's quite usuable for 'surprises' 23:46:45 <frosch123> night 23:46:50 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009cd6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:00 <ABCRic> 'night all 23:48:05 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@115.127.166.178.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: Goodbye, world...] 23:48:07 <Wazz> planetmaker: That was it! Thanks! I've downloaded one set a friend's told me about, and I had it on the NewGRF's list, thinking it's going to ADD that set to the default set, but it's been replacing them! Thanks :-) 23:49:18 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: that is quite a good argument, assuming it's on the roadmap that OSX-specific code should be replaced with possibly less optimal SDL. 23:49:23 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 23:49:31 <planetmaker> you're welcome, Wazz 23:49:37 <Wazz> :-) 23:50:03 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: well, calling it "roadmap" might be exaggerated :p 23:52:31 <__ln__> performance is some kind of an issue with the current OSX video implementation written by smart people and Bjarni. it would be quite optimistic to assume that adding a new level of abstraction in between would not make the performance worse. 23:52:45 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: it's just a fact that OSX specific code causes the highest OS-specific maintenance. just count the linux-specific commits and the windows-specific commits in comparison [with or without 'MSVC complains more than GCC' commits] 23:55:38 <perk111> It's just the fact Mac=Evil 23:55:46 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: might very well be true 23:56:23 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-4d02165d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: gn8] 23:57:17 <Eddi|zuHause> perk111: please don't turn this into a religious discussion. there are enough real facts. 23:57:37 <perk111> I was not going to 23:58:12 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:58:22 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: point is also: all developers save me use either windows or linux. Thus everything they commit is automatically tested for their OS - and doesn't show as specific anywhere 23:58:54 <planetmaker> so this clearly must lead to a bias. 23:58:58 <__ln__> during the existence of OpenTTD there have been three new Mac OS X versions and a change of processor architecture. only two new Windows versions during that time. 23:59:05 <perk111> Mac is gaining popularity, but not among devs