Log for #openttd on 2nd April 2011:
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00:31:36  <DanMacK> Hey all
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02:02:56  <supermop> hello
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03:11:29  <Chris_Booth> hi Alle
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04:43:24  <Chris_Booth> I am sorry, but the colour have been anoying me for a few months now so I have added them to FA
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04:43:26  <Chris_Booth> FA
04:43:35  <Chris_Booth> if you need more details please ask me
04:44:46  <Chris_Booth> the 2 colours that I have given you images for you can't see the diffenerce for on any screen that I use
04:45:03  <Chris_Booth> so please as me for more information
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06:25:59  <andythenorth> morning
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06:33:59  <Rubidium> moi andy
06:47:40  <planetmaker> moin
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06:59:03  * andythenorth does grumble
06:59:49  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you know that you'll need an almost-flat map for a 10x15 industry to find a location?
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07:01:03  <andythenorth> with widely spaced towns, and widely spaced objects, industries, other immovables
07:01:05  <andythenorth> and low water
07:01:39  <andythenorth> and maximum height difference of 1 tile across that 10x15 area
07:03:05  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes. plenty of ways to get those ;)
07:03:16  <andythenorth> terraform :P
07:03:21  <andythenorth> with magic bulldozer cheat
07:03:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the industry code already terraforms +/-1 level across the whole industry area
07:03:45  <Eddi|zuHause> on map generation
07:03:50  <andythenorth> it will try and level a platform yes
07:04:04  <andythenorth> in many cases that's no possible due to construction further / up down a slope
07:04:14  <andythenorth> ach
07:04:20  <andythenorth> I don't know why I'm arguing
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07:04:43  <andythenorth> the general opinion of a lot of (wrong) people seems to be that industries are not large enough
07:05:04  <andythenorth> :P
07:05:42  <andythenorth> it's also completely inappropriate for a fully loaded 747 to land / take off in 6 tiles
07:05:55  <andythenorth> and as for the problem with trains and depots...
07:06:00  <andythenorth> :|
07:06:06  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, there's no such thing as a "to scale" industry
07:06:23  <andythenorth> that's the way it should be :D
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07:06:46  <andythenorth> good toys use selective compression of some elements
07:07:25  * andythenorth should have slept more and will now get off high horse before falling off
07:07:39  <andythenorth> hmm
07:07:55  <andythenorth> it would be nice to plant some appropriate fields around sheep and dairy farms
07:08:06  <andythenorth> but I think that project has died permanently :)
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07:30:46  <Terkhen> good morning
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09:16:41  <Wolf01> hello
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09:18:25  <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
09:20:41  <Mazur> Good
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10:02:58  <andythenorth> frosch123: extended sprite layout isn't in 1.1 is it?
10:03:04  <andythenorth> in case I missed it somewhere?
10:03:14  <planetmaker> not
10:05:24  <frosch123> no, it is not finsihed yet
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10:10:45  <andythenorth> ok
10:10:58  <andythenorth> I shall not do any FIRS date-specific graphics yet then
10:10:59  <andythenorth> :)
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10:29:30  <st6> is there a way to fix mouse lagging in the game?
10:29:50  <st6> or is it just a fps thing or something
10:30:31  <SmatZ> if you see the game has low fps, then your mouse will be seemingly lagging
10:30:41  <planetmaker> it doesn't lag here, so... ^
10:31:11  <planetmaker> thus if the map you play pushes the cpu core the game runs on to 100%, you'll perceive a lag
10:31:25  <Alberth> there have been discussions about that in the forums, perhaps that gives you an idea of what is happening
10:32:17  <st6> ill check it out
10:38:19  <SmatZ> Chris_Booth: "All windows trunks on my screen hace this issue." does it mean stable versions don't have that problem? or - 1.0 was ok, but 1.1 has that problem?
10:38:56  <SmatZ> also, why did you set the severity to "critical"
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10:43:31  <V453000> SmatZ: it is _his_ screen so it is critical :P
10:43:38  <frosch123> i don't think Chris_Booth is complaining about something new. the colours are just hard to distinguish for small lines
10:43:53  <frosch123> it's not even about colour blindness :p
10:44:13  <frosch123> we could increase the width of the lines
10:44:32  <frosch123> (that is for that graphs; no idea for minimap)
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10:48:45  <DanMacK> Hey andy
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11:10:04  <andythenorth> hey DanMacK
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11:56:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22288 /trunk/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Deduplicate Blitter_8bppBase::DrawLine() and Blitter_32bppBase::DrawLine() into Blitter::DrawLine().
11:56:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22289 /trunk/projects/ (4 files): -Fix (r22288): Forgot project files.
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13:25:02  <frosch123> Chris_Booth: <- better?
13:41:53  <Chris_Booth> yes much better frosch123
13:42:32  <Chris_Booth> i like the second one best
13:44:10  <frosch123> err, the first one is unmodified trunk :p
13:44:52  <SmatZ> I totally overlooked the gray (?) company in the graph :)
13:45:43  <frosch123> imo gray is easier than the blueish one :)
13:50:38  <SmatZ> true :)
13:50:46  <SmatZ> maybe we should get back to the 8 companies limit
13:50:48  <confound> the second is better
13:50:56  <SmatZ> and choose only 8 well distinguishable colours :)
13:51:13  <Chris_Booth> yeah line wieght isn't a huge issue
13:51:25  <Chris_Booth> but when in chat and you have 2 yellow is annoying
13:51:27  <Chris_Booth> and confusing
13:53:27  <frosch123> for the chat we could put the company icon (?) in front of the message?
13:53:37  <frosch123> otoh, i thought coop has only one colour anyway :p
13:59:26  <Chris_Booth> yes it is frosch123 but when playing on other servers such as the welcome server on coop
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13:59:48  <Chris_Booth> when I choose orange and someone choose yellow we look the same
14:00:11  <frosch123> damn, i still make more money with 3 planes than 14 ais :s
14:01:58  <Chris_Booth> ais frosch123?
14:02:12  <frosch123> "AIs"
14:02:25  <frosch123> i need a graph with 15 of the 16 colours :p
14:02:33  <Chris_Booth> aaah I see
14:10:26  <frosch123>
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14:12:36  <frosch123> hmm, nah, bright is bad. it makes orange look like yellow
14:12:44  <frosch123> it does not match the colours in the legend
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14:24:48  <Cursarion> hi
14:25:05  <Cursarion> I have Fedora 12 and OpenTTD 1.0.3
14:25:38  <Cursarion> apparently this version of Fedora can't update stuff from repos anymore (or something). How should I update, and to what version if I want to get on 1.0.5 server?
14:26:01  <Cursarion> can a newer version client connect to an older version server?
14:26:03  <frosch123> if you want to join a server the versions need to match exactly
14:27:03  <frosch123> <- you can get old versions from there
14:27:07  <Cursarion> okay
14:27:08  <Cursarion> thanks
14:27:40  <frosch123> try the linux-generic ones
14:28:17  <ccfreak2k> frosch123, how about hilighting a particular line (perhaps by drawing a thicker line behind it) when the cursor is over any company on the key?
14:28:34  <frosch123> ccfreak2k: you can aswell toggle them by clicking
14:28:40  <Alberth> Cursarion: F12 is not maintained any more by Fedora
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14:48:05  <leanden> Howdy
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15:08:11  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22290 /trunk/src/blitter/base.cpp: -Codechange: Somewhat deduplicate one line of code.
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16:16:04  <Eddi|zuHause> gnah, generic buffers is not groundtile agnostic...
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16:17:54  <st6> where does giant screenshot save to?
16:21:00  <glx> Cursarion: and you may want to use openttd 1.1.0 (latest stable release)
16:21:04  <DanMacK> OTTD folder in Mydocuments usually
16:21:47  <glx> good luck when opening a giant screensot :)
16:25:55  <Eddi|zuHause> it's usually fine for anything <= 256x256 ;)
16:27:04  <Eddi|zuHause> you usually get in trouble when the "raw" (uncompressed) image gets in regions of >2GB
16:29:41  <Eddi|zuHause> bÀh... i seem to be too tired... the whole forum is just gibberish today...
16:30:46  <frosch123> how does you mood influence the content of the forums? :)
16:31:54  <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, kinda was expecting it was my fault :p
16:32:47  <frosch123> accepted. finally i have someone to blame when the forums turn bad
16:33:00  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: not the content, but my perception thereof.
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16:39:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22291 /trunk/src/ (blitter/base.cpp blitter/base.hpp gfx.cpp gfx_func.h): -Add: a linewidth argument to GfxDrawLine() and Blitter::DrawLine().
16:40:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22292 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Change: Increase the linewidth in plots.
16:42:05  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: definitely one of those kind of days
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16:43:47  * andythenorth wonders why people need all these insanely big stations
16:43:53  <andythenorth> and huge queues of trains
16:43:55  <LordAro> moin all
16:43:55  <Cursarion> glx: for going to 1.0.5 server?
16:43:59  <Cursarion> maybe when the server updates
16:44:15  <confound> andythenorth: how big is 'insanely big'?
16:44:20  <glx> of course you need the same version
16:44:21  <andythenorth> dunno
16:44:23  <andythenorth> just big
16:44:36  <confound> do you think 6x6 is big?
16:44:53  <andythenorth> 7 platforms is big
16:44:56  <andythenorth> for a single industry
16:45:05  <andythenorth> and of little benefit
16:45:24  <confound> single primary industry?
16:45:32  <andythenorth> appears to be
16:45:38  <confound> 7x1? :)
16:45:44  <andythenorth> 7xn
16:45:50  <andythenorth> I can't be bothered to count :P
16:45:57  <andythenorth> ach
16:46:01  <Alberth> I do that to make sure all trains serving that industry have a platform
16:46:04  <andythenorth> it's a question of style I guess
16:46:30  <confound> I never end up with more than 3 for a primary industry
16:46:36  <andythenorth> I usually have 1
16:46:40  <confound> 4 if I send a supply train there
16:46:45  <confound> er, I meant 2 and 3, not 3 and 4
16:47:15  <Alberth> indeed, I normally have only a few trains waiting
16:47:25  <andythenorth> 2 platforms + escape depot for me
16:47:37  <andythenorth> it's enough to keep station rating up most of the time
16:47:38  <Alberth> it is just a safe guard that trains have a place when production decreases
16:47:46  <andythenorth> ah
16:47:53  * andythenorth never has production decrease ;)
16:48:03  <confound> yeah, 2 for filling + waiting, 3rd for supply
16:48:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i have 5 platforms at one industry right now (2 unloading, 3 loading), and 6 platforms covering 3 industries
16:48:55  <Eddi|zuHause> transfer stations tend to get huge
16:49:17  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: 2 unloading + 3 loading makes sense
16:49:27  <andythenorth> and 6 per 3 also
16:49:39  <andythenorth> hey ho
16:50:07  <andythenorth> for example, this strikes me as odd:
16:50:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i lied. it's now 7 for 4 industries...
16:51:14  <confound> andythenorth: which, the livestock loading?
16:51:19  <andythenorth> looks like it
16:51:26  <andythenorth> 7 platforms for one farm?
16:51:31  <confound> that might be two stations
16:51:33  <andythenorth> plus a huge 'escape yard'
16:51:52  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: if you compute platforms/industry, it gets better :)
16:52:00  <confound> yeah I have no idea what's going on there
16:52:11  <andythenorth> hmm
16:52:19  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: that's cheating, because one of the industries is a sink only.
16:52:49  * andythenorth finds that RVs and ships are much more efficient on space vs. rating  vs. transported amount
16:53:14  * andythenorth is also now fed up of reports that FIRS is broken with Chill's patch
16:53:21  <andythenorth> what am I supposed to do about that? :P
16:53:31  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's totally not true when you're not using HEQS and FISH :p
16:53:45  <Alberth> if only you could stack trains onto each other like ships :)
16:53:47  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: complain that the patch is broken
16:53:51  <andythenorth> well not using them would be like choosing to smoke bad crack
16:54:00  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the patch is broken ;)
16:54:09  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it should get the cargo names which have TE_GOODS set, and not just assume it's called "goods"
16:55:21  <Alberth> andythenorth: ask a moderator to move the posts to Chillcore's patch thread :)
16:55:32  <andythenorth> that's where they are :)
16:55:38  <andythenorth> but I keep getting asked about it
16:55:49  <andythenorth> I have posted in that thread with eddi's answer
16:56:15  <andythenorth> does the game ship with some default trams?
16:56:40  <Eddi|zuHause> no
16:56:44  <andythenorth> should it?
16:56:48  <Eddi|zuHause> no
16:56:51  <andythenorth> ok
16:57:00  <andythenorth> next issue :)
16:57:29  * Eddi|zuHause considers implementing "scale industry production with daylength". but not today... someone remind me tomorrow.
16:57:37  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: which forum gibberish did you find?
16:57:58  <Eddi|zuHause> plenty
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16:58:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the suggestions forum was the worst...
16:58:41  <andythenorth> I usually regret going in there
16:58:48  <andythenorth> the problems forum even more so
17:03:27  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: suggestions forum is good, consider what would happen if all those users would post the suggestions elsewhere :p
17:04:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i meant: the amount of gibberish is even higher than usual
17:05:55  <Alberth> after 'problems', 'suggestions' is the first form of participation :)
17:06:50  <Alberth> where you don't have such concrete things like in 'problems' :)
17:07:06  <DanMacK> I have a hard problem wading through the Development forum sometimes
17:08:40  <supermop> i like reading suggestions,
17:08:50  <supermop> rarely read general or problems
17:10:59  * Alberth mostly reads by scanning topic titles
17:12:55  <frosch123> supermop: but they repeat every month? so you can only enjoy them for one month in your life
17:14:09  <supermop> ocassionally someone has a different perspective on an idea,
17:14:21  <supermop> and there are a lot of new people in there
17:16:46  * DanMacK has to admit though, some of the suggestions are pretty silly
17:18:08  <DanMacK> comes to mind...
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17:38:59  <Ruudjah> I tried upgrading to 1.1.0. So I removed 1.05 from Ubuntu software center, downloaded the ubuntu 10.04 32bits .deb file and ran it. It opened up ubuntu sofwtare center, but it says "Dependency is not satisfiable: liblzma1 (>= 4.999.9beta) "
17:39:21  <Ruudjah> how to workaround?
17:39:40  <andythenorth> DanMacK: I liked that suggestion
17:39:49  <andythenorth> it's at least a creative hack on the game engine
17:39:59  <andythenorth> rather than yet another boring train nerd request :D
17:42:07  <DanMacK> lol, true
17:42:28  <Ruudjah> planetmaker: how is NML going along?
17:42:28  <andythenorth> why he wants it I can't fathom
17:42:38  * DanMacK pictures an F1 track as part of the future "Tourist" mod for FIRS
17:42:45  <DanMacK> called FIRST
17:43:09  <andythenorth> ho
17:43:13  <andythenorth> racetrack
17:43:16  <andythenorth> not a bad industry
17:43:28  <andythenorth> I have thought of numerous entirely 'other' industry chains
17:43:42  <andythenorth> a lifestyle / sports chain for example
17:43:53  <andythenorth> you would ship racehorses, f1 cars, sports teams
17:44:02  <andythenorth> burgers, merchandise
17:44:06  <andythenorth> bribes
17:44:20  <andythenorth> soft drinks, alcohol
17:44:24  <Mazur> Deutsche Bahn is going to run ICE3 trains to the UK.
17:44:41  <Mazur> I did not know that.
17:44:42  <andythenorth> 'we need tunnels under water' :P
17:45:23  <Mazur> Well, there are some tunnels in that direction, I believe they might utilise tose.
17:46:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: yes, they're trying to get the ICE3 approved for the Eurotunnel [where TGV/Eurostar has currently a monopoly]
17:47:39  <Mazur> Proposed trajectory through A'dam, nice.  Would give me a fast connection  through London.
17:47:44  <Mazur> to London
17:47:50  <Eddi|zuHause> "Peking's air is now 'crazy bad' quality after it got so bad it triggered an easter egg in the american embassy's measurement software"
17:50:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: i think it's still a few years to go.
17:50:10  <frosch123> Ruudjah: install liblzma resp. libxz
17:50:18  <Mazur> Of course.
17:50:32  <Mazur> Still, quite interesting.
17:50:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: part of the problem is that the requirement rules for trains through the eurotunnel are pretty much designed to only include the eurostar :p
17:51:29  <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. "train of 800m length must be passable from front to back". where every other train of this length in europe would usually consist of two separate units
17:52:02  <Ruudjah> sudo apt-get install liblzma -> unable to locate package liblzma
17:52:07  <Ruudjah> same for libxz
17:52:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Ruudjah: lzma2?
17:52:25  <andythenorth> randomising cc use on stations - means making some custom recolor sprites?
17:53:16  <frosch123> the debian package is called liblzma2
17:53:18  <Ruudjah> lzma2 same
17:54:27  <Ruudjah> liblzma2 -> liblzma2 is already the newest version.
17:54:50  <Ruudjah> so openttd points to liblzma1, and I have liblzma2
17:55:02  <Eddi|zuHause> Ruudjah: openttd needs liblzma2
17:55:03  <Ruudjah> liblzma1 not in apt repo
17:55:05  <Mazur> Well, the French and English wanted to have an easy monopoly on the tunnel, I suppose.
17:55:16  <Eddi|zuHause> liblzma1 is outdated/incompatible
17:55:33  <frosch123> afaik the ubuntu binaries are build on a ubuntu vm, so i am suprised it does not have the needed librarise
17:55:33  <Mazur> It will eventually bite them in the back.
17:55:42  <Ruudjah> Eddi|zuHause: Ubuntu software center says: "Dependency is not satisfiable: liblzma1 (>= 4.999.9beta) " when opening the 32bit ubuntu 1.1.0 deb
17:56:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Ruudjah: that looks like a bug
17:56:27  <planetmaker> Ruudjah: NML is working mostly fine. But it has not yet full coverage of all features
17:56:51  <planetmaker> but it's being worked on. Sometimes more, sometimes less
17:56:57  <planetmaker> good evening also :-)
17:57:02  <Ruudjah> :)
17:57:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Ruudjah: you should probably report that to someone who is interested.
17:57:39  <Ruudjah> what?
17:57:44  <Eddi|zuHause> let's call him "wayne" :p
17:58:06  <frosch123> Ruudjah: well, try the linux-generic one then
17:58:16  <frosch123> it seems to statically link liblzma
17:59:06  <frosch123> (at least ldd does not list it)
17:59:35  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, linux-generic should statically link most of the things
18:00:06  <Ruudjah> ah, that seems to work, it does not have an installer though :(
18:00:27  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
18:01:10  <Ruudjah> actually that doesnt work at all
18:01:23  <Ruudjah> I unzipped it into a folder, double clicked openttd but nothing happens
18:02:50  <LordAro> Terkhen: (mingw) it would appear that the zlib installation is failing
18:03:26  <Ruudjah> well
18:03:44  <Ruudjah> no wonder I get "Dependency is not satisfiable: liblzma1 (>= 4.999.9beta) ", i downloaded 10.04 while I ave 10.10
18:03:51  <Ruudjah> 10.10 works as expected
18:04:07  <Ruudjah> generic doesnt though
18:06:17  <supermop> how do trees know to clump together by species in ottd?
18:06:37  <supermop> do they have some sort of callback to check neighboring trees?
18:07:53  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: afair tree growth is usually by "plant same species in adjacent tile", in some rarer instances "place random tree in random tile"
18:08:15  <Eddi|zuHause> except in rainforest, then the latter version dominates
18:08:35  <supermop> ok
18:08:56  <supermop> so its not just in my head, there is a tendency for trees to clump
18:09:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
18:09:23  <supermop> there can be 2 or 4 trees per tile?
18:09:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i think up to 5
18:10:09  <supermop> can there me more than one of same species in same tile?
18:10:41  <supermop> i am trying to think out the practicality of tall grass or reeds growing as a type of tree
18:10:48  <Eddi|zuHause> there is only one species stored, the rest is by some pseudo-random calculation
18:11:16  <supermop> trees don't care about altitude or slope?
18:11:26  <Eddi|zuHause> no, the "uneven" territory has nothing to do with trees
18:11:55  <supermop> so no way to have hills prefer pines, and lowlands prefer deciduous
18:12:01  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a "no tree growths above heightlevel X" patch around
18:12:17  <supermop> but it is one treeline for all species
18:12:21  <frosch123> supermop: topic climate does that
18:12:25  <frosch123> *tropic
18:12:36  <supermop> yeah?
18:12:40  <supermop> ive never played it
18:12:49  <frosch123> different trees in normal land, and rainforest
18:13:10  <supermop> but there the tiles have a different additional property
18:13:30  <supermop> so to implement that for 'hills'
18:13:41  <frosch123> well, normal land is near the see, rainforest is in hills
18:13:45  <frosch123> *sea
18:13:55  <supermop> you would need a 'high altitude' terrain type
18:14:09  <supermop> that prefers conifers
18:14:32  <supermop> and maybe a 'mountain' type that prefers no vegetation
18:14:47  <supermop> maybe wildflowers
18:14:50  <__ln__>
18:16:16  <Terkhen> LordAro: with what error?
18:16:33  <Markk> __ln__: :D
18:18:01  <LordAro> Terkhen:
18:18:47  <Terkhen> I don't remember its exact output but that does not look like an error to me
18:20:54  *** Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:22:06  <Terkhen> my guess is that you are missing the new step at the beginning of Setting up MSYS, anyways
18:23:40  <LordAro> oh yes, i ticked MSYS Basic System and MinGW Developer Tools by accident...
18:23:58  <LordAro> i seemed to be going ok... until that point :)
18:24:19  <LordAro> is there an easy way of removing those items?
18:24:20  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:25:55  <Terkhen> not that I know
18:27:02  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: now make the same with a PNG :p
18:27:11  <LordAro> meh... oh well, my bad :)
18:33:44  <LordAro> Terkhen: i'm getting errors about not being able to find some 'catalogues', is this known?
18:34:23  <Terkhen> you will have to be more specific, I don't know what are you referring to
18:38:35  <LordAro> on first installation, i selected 'download latest package catalogues' (or something like that) and it wasn't able to find some of them. it was probably related to that
18:42:10  <Terkhen> the tutorial specifically says: Select "Use pre-packaged repository catalogues".
18:42:43  <LordAro> well i was trying to be clever be going for 'latest'... :L
18:46:55  <LordAro> Terkhen: where is the 'executable' for mingw? the installation seems to have failed with the start menu icon...
18:56:33  <Terkhen> why should that fail at all?
18:56:58  <Terkhen> if the icon is not present you probably did not install MSYS
18:57:05  <Terkhen> "Select C++ Compiler and MSYS Basic System as optional components."
18:57:16  <Terkhen> please follow the tutorial literally
18:57:56  <planetmaker> :-)
18:58:14  <LordAro> damnation...
18:59:26  <LordAro> i've just made one of the most basic mistakes... :)
19:05:52  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i think i just had a genious thought, but probably nobody is going to notice...
19:15:31  <LordAro> Terkhen: i'm still getting the same zlib error...
19:18:21  <supermop> is that a challenge, eddi?
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19:39:45  <DanMacK> Hey Lakie
19:40:15  <Lakie> Hi DanMacK
19:47:13  <__ln__> anyone been watching "The Event"?
19:48:18  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: only the first half of the season so far...
19:48:48  <glx> LordAro: what's the error ? (paste expired it seems)
19:48:55  <__ln__> quite an addictive series
19:48:58  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: if you mean "should i start watching this", then probably: "don't bother"
19:49:22  <__ln__> already started :)
19:49:24  <Eddi|zuHause> it's unlikely to survive the season IMO
19:50:24  <__ln__> so they say
19:51:25  <Eddi|zuHause> if enough people are saying that, it tends to become truth
19:55:38  <__ln__> did you ever watch "the 4400", which was remotely similar in theme?
20:04:12  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah
20:04:29  <Eddi|zuHause> also a series that went from us well before its time.
20:04:47  <Eddi|zuHause> people call it "the summer glau curse" :p
20:06:00  <Eddi|zuHause> series where summer glau had a significant part: firefly, the 4400, terminator, the cape
20:06:11  <__ln__> imho the 4400 ended up being very dull in the long run, the big plot not advancing nearly at all.
20:06:19  <Eddi|zuHause> series that got canceled prematurely: firefly, the 4400, terminator, the cape
20:07:05  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: hmm... i didn't have that impression...
20:07:57  <glx> hmm I don't remember summer glau in the 4400
20:07:59  *** LordAro [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:08:09  <__ln__> i don't remember when i stopped watching it, but apparently before summer glau appeared
20:08:10  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: the crazy girl
20:08:28  <__ln__> or was she there from the start?
20:08:35  <glx> but she's in dollhouse
20:08:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i think she appeard beginning of season 2, and then again during season 4
20:08:56  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: oh right, i forgot. but that's only a minor role ;)
20:09:21  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: the scary thing is, she appeared in The Big Bang Theory as well :p
20:09:45  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: but dollhouse was doomed way before she appeared
20:10:08  <glx> yeah the serie is too complicated for US
20:33:32  <xQR> any idea why my map is full of industries since the upgrade from 1.0.5 to 1.1.0? i still got number_industries = 0 as before
20:36:16  <xQR> is it deprecated and now overriden by industry_density? because i just noticed that one is set to 5 o0
20:36:43  <Yexo> number_industries is not a valid setting in 1.1 / trunk
20:36:46  <frosch123> that setting changed, yes, there are now more options
20:36:47  <Yexo> industry_density is
20:36:50  <xQR> ah great
20:36:53  <xQR> thx
20:37:08  <Wolf01> 'night
20:37:11  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
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21:01:48  <DanMacK> Dollhouse season 1 was pretty good, season 2 was a bit more, odd
21:02:48  <orudge> oh hey, it's DabuYu
21:02:49  <orudge> erm
21:02:50  <orudge> DanMacK
21:02:51  <orudge> hiding away :p
21:02:59  *** dfox [] has joined #openttd
21:03:11  *** JVassie [~James@] has joined #openttd
21:04:04  <DanMacK> Hey Owen, LTNS
21:04:59  <orudge> How's it going? And not lurking in #tycoon any more?
21:13:11  *** Ivan [] has joined #openttd
21:13:35  <Ivan> Sup? I was looking for a bit of help with installing openttd on my linux machine running Mint 10
21:14:27  <Ivan> I'm not quite sure what to do with ./configure.
21:14:40  <Yexo> are you planning to compile your own binary?
21:14:46  <Ivan> Yes.
21:14:56  <Yexo> do you already have a source checkout?
21:14:57  <Ivan> I've got it extracted. but ./configure isn't working.
21:15:05  <Ivan> Got the source from the main website.
21:15:11  <Yexo> "isn't working" is not really helpful, what error message does it give?
21:15:22  <Ivan> It just says it's not a valid command.
21:15:35  <Yexo> is your working directory correct?
21:15:44  <Ivan> I type ./configure (dir containing openttd)
21:16:11  <Yexo> which version did you download?
21:16:20  <Ivan> The ubuntu generic i686
21:16:28  <Ivan> as I am not sure which one to dl for Mint 10
21:16:31  <Yexo> so you downloaded a binary, not a source package
21:16:45  <Ivan> Oh, that's what it was? I'm a bit new to Linux.
21:17:11  <Yexo> in the dropdown on the download page select "openttd-{version}-source"
21:17:30  <Ivan> Well would you look at that...
21:17:58  <Ivan> So, what's the difference  between a binary and a source?
21:18:23  <Yexo> the source code is what you edit when you modify the program
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21:18:38  <Ivan> Ah.
21:18:45  <Yexo> however since computers can't just run source code, you have to compile it into a program first
21:18:52  <Ivan> Yeah, I know that much.
21:18:52  <Yexo> the result of compilation is called a binary
21:18:56  <Ivan> I understand what the source is
21:19:02  <Ivan> I don't understand what a binary is.
21:19:03  <Ivan> Ah
21:19:07  <Ivan> so it's precompiled.
21:19:10  <Yexo> yes
21:19:35  <Ivan> So, ./configure now throws "no such directory or file"
21:20:04  <Yexo> did you extract the source package and are you in the correct directory?
21:20:10  <Ivan> Does it need to be run from within the openttd-1.1.0 dir?
21:20:14  <Yexo> yes
21:20:20  <Ivan> Ok, wasn't sure.
21:20:24  <Ivan> Yeah, it's working now.
21:20:29  <Yexo> "./configure" means "run the program called "configure" in the current directory
21:20:41  <Ivan> Ah.
21:21:44  <frosch123> read the output of configure carefully. i.e. whether it complains about missing libraries
21:21:52  <frosch123> like sdl, lzma2 and such
21:22:09  <Ivan> Says that there are no video driver development files.
21:22:28  <Yexo> you'll need to install sdl-dev or whatever it's called in mint
21:22:37  <Ivan> Which is odd that I'm missing something, because the version of openttd from the software center runs fine
21:22:54  <Yexo> you need extra packages for compiling that you don't need when just running the program
21:23:01  <Ivan> Ah.
21:23:15  <frosch123> hmm, btw. did you try the precompiled debian squeeze binary?
21:23:17  <Yexo> if you don't care about compiling you could download the "generic linux binary" and just run that
21:23:33  <Ivan> Is there any disadvantage to doing so?
21:23:41  <Yexo> no
21:23:48  <Ivan> Ok!
21:23:55  <Yexo> unless you want to start editing the source, in which case you do need to compile yourself
21:25:10  *** welshdragon [] has left #openttd [Leaving]
21:25:17  <Ivan> So, what would I do with the .tar I Dl'd?
21:25:31  <Yexo> extract somewhere in your home directory
21:26:11  <Ivan> Done.
21:26:17  <Yexo> after that just run "bin/openttd" or "./openttd" from within the new directory. (I'm not sure which is correct since I didn't check the format of the tar files)
21:27:17  <Alberth> 'make run'  :)
21:28:45  *** LordAro [] has joined #openttd
21:30:43  <Ivan> Thanks, guys.
21:30:44  <Alberth> Ivan: many distros have split all packages in a part you only need to run the code (which get installed by default), and a part (with a -dev suffix in the name or so, that are not installed by default) you need when you want to compile new programs
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21:31:04  <Alberth> that's why you 'miss' packages
21:31:39  <Ivan> Alright, I think I understand. So dependencies for a binary =/= dependencies for compiling something from source.
21:31:48  <Yexo> correct
21:31:57  <Alberth> they do exist, they are just not installed by default, as many users don't compile themselves
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21:33:06  <Ivan> So, now it says I'm missing a graphics library. Do I need to DL opengfx?
21:33:35  <Yexo> if openttd is telling you you miss a base graphics set, than yes
21:34:47  <xQR> am i missing something or is it normal that it wants such a graphics set even when compiled with enable_dedicated="1"?
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21:35:29  <Alberth> it is normal
21:35:32  <Ivan> How would you recommend I go about installing opengfx?
21:35:38  <xQR> ok
21:35:39  <Alberth> it contains more than just graphics
21:36:11  <Yexo> Ivan: download (the binary file)
21:36:18  <Yexo> extract in ~/.openttd/data/
21:37:25  <LordAro> how would you run configure when you can't do './configure'?
21:38:00  <Yexo> LordAro: what are you talking about?
21:38:06  <Alberth> sh configure
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21:39:27  <LordAro> i'm trying to run ./configure on my (slightly messed up) portable mingw and it's saying: H:\OpenTTD-Main\OpenTTD Source\trunk>./configure
21:39:27  <LordAro> '.' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
21:39:27  <LordAro> operable program or batch file.
21:39:43  <__ln__> you're doing it wrong
21:41:37  <LordAro> Alberth: that comes up with this:
21:42:22  <Alberth> haha!    NT BASH  :D
21:42:29  <xQR> mh wasn't there a more central place you could put the opengfx data? i think i did that on my server
21:42:52  <Alberth> please read the readme for such answers
21:42:55  <xQR> ah found it: /usr/share/games/openttd/data/opengfx
21:43:19  <Yexo> xQR: but that requires root privileges and I didn't want to make it anymore difficult for him
21:43:31  <LordAro> Alberth: i did wonder about that... have i downloaded the wrong win32 binary? (please note, i'm desparately trying not to do something stupid :) )
21:43:40  <Yexo> LordAro: it looks more than "slightly" messed up
21:43:51  <xQR> you're right :)
21:44:09  *** JOHN-SHEPARD_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:44:33  <Alberth> LordAro: I stay away from all windows stuff as far as possible
21:44:58  <LordAro> good move :)
21:47:33  <planetmaker> except windows within openttd? ;-)
21:47:42  * planetmaker quickly hides
21:47:54  * LordAro presses the like button
21:48:21  <xQR> he just plays by using console commands
21:48:56  <Alberth> actually, xterm, hg, and gvim  are my main play-tools :)
21:48:57  <planetmaker> xQR: you have one guess who rewrote OpenTTD's gui code ;-)
21:49:06  <xQR> haha
21:49:45  <xQR> LordAro did you check the readme? i don't see anything about "configure" when compiling under windows
21:49:54  <xQR> it refers you to read the make file
21:50:07  <xQR> and that says something like # Usage: make -f Makefile.msvc PLATFORM=[Win32|x64]
21:50:24  <LordAro> i've compiled before...
21:50:37  <Yexo> xQR: when compiling under mingw you do need ./configure
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21:51:12  <xQR> hmkay
21:52:20  <xQR> LordAro where did you type this command? it seems like you're in a dos prompt there
21:52:34  <xQR> and not in an environment where you could execute linux shell scripts
21:52:50  <xQR> that's why it complains about the syntax - you can't run a script with ./script in a dos prompt
21:53:02  <LordAro> correct - mingw emulates unix
21:53:08  <Alberth> LordAro: does   bash configure   do something useful?
21:53:39  <xQR> yes but the message you got is the message i get from windows when i open a "cmd" box and type such a  command there
21:53:46  <xQR> so you're not in an emulated unix there
21:54:30  <LordAro> no, i'm in a semi modified version for portable use
21:54:36  <LordAro> ...that doesn't work very well
21:55:11  <Alberth> xQR: it is always fun, new users using the hardest possible platform to compile
21:55:22  <xQR> yes, i wondered about that too
21:55:24  <planetmaker> :-D
21:55:32  <LordAro> Alberth: the same except with
21:55:32  <LordAro> bash: warning: could not find /tmp, please create!
21:55:32  <LordAro> : No such file or directory
21:55:34  <xQR> under windows i did it with visual c++
21:55:38  <xQR> works a lot better and is easier
21:55:46  <Eddi|zuHause> @base 10 16 27
21:55:46  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 1B
21:55:48  <xQR> and in plain linux it's easy anyway
21:56:00  <LordAro> xQR: no admin access :(
21:56:07  <planetmaker> cross compiling from linux to windows is somewhat easier than setting up a native compile environment on windows
21:56:11  <xQR> mhh ok that sucks
21:56:18  <LordAro> ikr
21:56:56  <xQR> well /tmp is a system directory that is always supposed to be there
21:57:02  <xQR> if it is not, do what the message says and create it ;)
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22:00:42  <LordAro|2> xQR: but i have no idea where, me being on my usb stick and all :)
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22:00:54  <LordAro|2> bastard router...
22:01:23  <xQR> directly in root
22:01:28  <xQR> top level of directories
22:01:37  <xQR> like you would have C:\tmp in windows
22:01:54  <LordAro|2> i'll give it a go...
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22:01:58  <xQR> mkdir tmp
22:03:03  <Alberth> TMPDIR If  set,  Bash  uses its value as the name of a directory in which Bash creates temporary files for the shell’s use. <-- My man page says you can have a $TEMPDIR  to point to your /tmp directory
22:03:16  <Alberth> s/TEMP/TMP/
22:03:49  <LordAro|2> and where can i set that?
22:03:58  <Alberth> in the shell :)
22:04:13  <xQR> yeah but imho it's easier to create a directory than setting an environment variable when you're not familar with that stuff
22:04:17  <Alberth> TMPDIR="C:/tmp"
22:04:56  <Alberth> export TMPDIR             (possibly not needed, but it does not hurt either)
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22:05:51  <Alberth> xQR: except he might not be able to create the tmp dir at the default place
22:06:04  <LordAro> Alberth: 'in the shell'?
22:06:14  <xQR> that would be bad :/
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22:06:34  <Alberth> xQR: that's what 'no admin rights' means, isn't it?
22:06:47  <LordAro> yup... :/
22:08:06  <Alberth> LordAro: as in   start the shell, type the command
22:10:48  <LordAro> how old is bash 2.03?
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22:13:11  <frosch123> at least 10
22:13:16  <Alberth> 3.2 stable released 2006-11-11   <-- from Gnu :)
22:13:27  <xQR> dunno, i thought mingw is kind of a virtual environment
22:13:38  <xQR> so its root would be in reality i a lower level of the file system
22:13:43  <xQR> on that usb stick or wherever
22:13:51  <LordAro> lol... can anybody else find a newer win32 version of bash
22:13:52  <xQR> *in
22:14:00  <frosch123> LordAro: looks like about july 1999
22:14:09  <xQR> haha nostalgia <3
22:14:37  <LordAro> xQR: mingw is really supposed to be with msys, which comes with bash etc, but a portable version of that hasn't been released :(
22:20:03  <LordAro> anyway, night all
22:22:41  <xQR> nighties
22:23:23  <Terkhen> good night
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22:24:59  <Eddi|zuHause> small brain teaser: if an ICE passes a station at high speed, what is the formular to calculate its speed in km/h out of the time you can hear it in seconds?
22:25:11  <Eddi|zuHause> -r
22:28:14  <__ln__> isn't there one unknown too many?
22:28:26  <xQR> length of the train ^^
22:28:29  *** Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:28:41  <xQR> that's like "i got X, tell me what's Y?"
22:28:43  <xQR> :P
22:29:16  <planetmaker> g'night
22:29:39  <xQR> well if the train is one kilometre long and it needs an hour to pass you know it was running 1 km/h :)
22:29:50  <xQR> n8 planetmaker
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22:31:48  <supermop> i wonder if they are still leasing capsules in nakagin, or if the co-op that owns it is discouraging further investment,
22:32:03  <supermop> so they can tear it down to build a new tower on the site
22:32:36  <supermop> actually i'd prefer to just buy a berth on one of the towers and supply a new capsule
22:35:03  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: assume an ideal ICE that is spherical and has radius 0 :)
22:35:58  * Eddi|zuHause feels like i just said: "i have an idea, but we need spherical chickens"
22:36:41  <supermop> how many first class seats on that 0-radius spherical ice?
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