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00:00:41 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.71.246] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 00:05:54 *** Strid__ [~Strid@c-ee80e555.013-46-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:09:35 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:15:00 *** Markavian [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:37:42 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:44:23 *** Westie [~westie@raptor.typefish.co.uk] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 00:48:21 *** Westie [~westie@raptor.typefish.co.uk] has joined #openttd 00:49:45 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 01:31:28 *** Chaot_s [~Chaot_s@d54C0C5DB.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:56:07 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:56:09 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76299.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:56:14 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76299.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21:31 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 02:26:05 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-143-201.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:30:37 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B76299.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:31:39 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-250-003.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:34:21 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76299.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:44:59 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:8565:2713:7128:2f5] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:47:41 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 02:50:27 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [] 03:05:26 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 04:35:32 *** Cozzie [~Cozzie@C-61-68-166-250.bur.connect.net.au] has joined #openttd 04:35:40 <Cozzie> hello =) 04:39:23 <Cozzie> I am currently in a bit of newgrf frenzy where I am trying to cram as much grfs without having any conflicts (and failing) any advices? 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B76299.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B76196.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:09:00 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 05:13:43 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:17:42 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe35dc00-187.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:48:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6AFE3.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 05:48:25 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 06:17:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C7EE.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 06:23:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6AFE3.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:32:39 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:37:05 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e061cc4.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:40:55 <planetmaker> moin 06:42:19 <planetmaker> Cozzie: there's no general guideline. But "as much as possible" is not a good approach ;-) 06:42:45 <planetmaker> You should only add those which you "need" 06:44:19 *** Ruudjah [~opera@86.93.109.194] has left #openttd [] 06:45:09 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 06:46:43 <planetmaker> Of course you can (and probably should) configure it for each game separately. In case of doubt of what a newgrf does start a short test game with it and decide upon that whether it matches your intended scenario 06:48:32 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5CDE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:55:28 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbab3a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 07:07:47 <Cozzie> hrmm i figured as such, i want to make a big game that is as rich as possible but i ended up with some weird effects (ie: planes having running cost higher than it's earning potential) 07:08:57 <Cozzie> not to mention some of the grfs arent properly documented 07:11:09 <planetmaker> It doesn't need many grfs for a big and rich game ;-) But it definitely helps to only use grfs where you at least know somewhat their effects 07:12:10 <planetmaker> indeed, though not every grf is well documented, though readmes for many can be found 07:12:20 <Cozzie> hahaha cause i just started playing again, so im in that phase 07:12:34 <Cozzie> what are your recommendation? 07:12:55 <planetmaker> I've no fixed set of newgrfs 07:13:26 <Cozzie> my aim is to have a wide variety of choices and having each transport option financially viable 07:13:34 <Cozzie> what's your favourites then? 07:14:45 <planetmaker> I'd throw in a few station grfs like isr, dwe, chips. Add heqs, then egrvts or long vehicles, then fish, av8; nars / ukrs / 2ccTrains / japanese. SwedishRails 07:14:55 <Cozzie> O_O 07:14:58 <Cozzie> that's a lot lol 07:15:02 <planetmaker> firs, maybe japanese landscape or opengfx+landscape 07:15:10 <planetmaker> note the few or I said :-) 07:15:16 <Cozzie> oh lol 07:15:22 <planetmaker> the trains are alternatives. not ands 07:15:40 <Cozzie> ive yet to try out the trains as i know they can be complicated 07:15:51 <Cozzie> pity cant mix those trainsets 07:16:17 <Cozzie> ive tried fish, avt, egrvts and hoverbus 07:16:23 <planetmaker> well, you can mix trainsets 07:16:32 <Cozzie> currently checking out balance based grfs 07:16:42 <Cozzie> wont they conflict? 07:16:42 <planetmaker> but some authors don't like that - that's the biggest issue there - and make it hard(er) to mix them 07:16:51 <planetmaker> yes and no. They might 07:17:12 <Cozzie> that's a shame though authors making things harder =/ 07:19:08 <planetmaker> yes. But it's a matter of compatibility. Making sets work along eachother is not an easy task with train sets. 07:19:30 <planetmaker> at least in a (mostly) bug-free way when you at the same time want to supply a feature-rich set 07:20:24 <planetmaker> but maybe you also just want to use firs and opengfx+trains. Then you can also transport everything :-) 07:20:41 <planetmaker> also opengfx+road vehicles then 07:21:14 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:22:07 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B1048CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:22:09 <Cozzie> i'll check those out but it seems i would have to spend quite a bit of time on these 07:22:55 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:26:10 <dihedral> oi 07:26:44 <planetmaker> moin dihedral 07:26:55 <planetmaker> Cozzie: often less is more in the area of newgrf ;-) 07:27:51 <planetmaker> you might look for inspiration through the PublicServerArchive for sets of newgrfs. http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive# 07:27:57 <planetmaker> hm... - # 07:29:12 <Terkhen> good morning 07:41:16 <planetmaker> moin Terkhen 07:41:20 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:51:03 *** ar3k [~ident@ecz44.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:51:20 *** ar3k [~ident@ecz44.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 07:51:27 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 08:09:17 <dihedral> oi Terkhen :-) 08:11:56 *** ar3k [~ident@ect247.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 08:14:54 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 08:16:18 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecz44.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:19:19 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 08:45:39 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbab3a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:13:07 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B1048CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:28:50 <Cozzie> curiously, by default does the value of the cargo start decreasing once it is loaded or only after it leaves the station? 09:28:51 *** DDR_ [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 09:29:27 <planetmaker> iirc, yes 09:29:42 <planetmaker> or rather as soon as it gets loaded the first time 09:30:08 <planetmaker> he, it was an or question. I need more tea 09:30:24 <Cozzie> thanks 09:31:00 <Cozzie> and one more, the cargo price timer does not get reseted in transfer until it reaches the end destination is that correct? 09:31:25 <planetmaker> of course not 09:31:46 <Cozzie> haha just wondering =P 09:31:58 <planetmaker> the clock runs once you start delivering a cargo 09:32:05 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:32:15 *** DDR_ is now known as DDR 09:32:25 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B107CAE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:32:27 <planetmaker> transfer orders is just how you company-internally manage to do that 09:32:28 <Cozzie> so say, when a train is waiting for wood to be loaded, the timer has already started ticking? 09:35:21 <Cozzie> hrmm ive been playing this game for 13 years i am still so unknowledgeable at the intricacies 09:36:09 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B1048CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:40:54 <__ln__> http://cl.ly/5nAo 09:55:48 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host108-239-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:55:59 <Wolf01> hello 09:57:15 <__ln__> 10floW olleh 09:57:55 <Wolf01> do you know I have a script for that? 09:58:58 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 10:03:23 *** Chrill [~Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 10:11:02 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:24:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> pressing Alt+F4 twice? 10:31:08 *** Eddi|zuHause3 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 10:33:43 <welshdragon> Devs: I have a request from a friend. 10:34:10 <Chrill> you have a friend? 10:34:22 <welshdragon> yes 10:34:44 <welshdragon> a friend who writes for a Linux Magazine 10:34:59 <Eddi|zuHause> one of those facebook things? 10:35:35 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:35:41 <welshdragon> No 10:36:07 <welshdragon> a request for information on cross platform program compiling 10:36:48 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbab3a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:37:16 <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a wiki page about that, probably horribly outdated 10:38:10 <welshdragon> probably 10:40:33 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.74.86] has joined #openttd 10:46:53 <Yexo> there is http://wiki.openttd.org/Cross_Compiling but that is indeed 5 or 6 years out of date 10:47:22 <Yexo> welshdragon: why are you asking that question in #openttd? cross-compiling is not really openttd specific, and there is lots of information about it 10:47:46 <Chrill> Yexo: where else to ask for a direct answer? people in the know are around 10:48:12 <Yexo> sure, if it was a small/simple question, but it's very broad and vague 10:49:10 <welshdragon> Yexo, and OpenTTD is a well known Cross Platform Game 10:49:50 <Yexo> yes, but I'm still not sure what you want to know 10:49:53 <Chrill> Yexo: I agree with you there. However, I feel like welshdragon made an assumption (a correct one) that people here could point him in the right direction 10:50:14 <Yexo> in that case wikipedia is a good start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_compiler 10:50:42 <Chrill> and there you go, someone here helped him :P 10:54:11 *** Chrill [~Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [] 10:57:21 <welshdragon> http://pastebin.com/cUj5brc0 10:58:08 <welshdragon> Yexo, ^ 11:00:57 <Yexo> still reads like a very broad question that can be answered by reading a bit on wikipedia and searching for any questions you get from there 11:06:12 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd 11:14:20 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 11:15:47 *** Ruudjah [~opera@86.93.109.194] has joined #openttd 11:16:10 *** kgust [~kgust@c-66-41-187-237.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 11:22:34 <Cozzie> is there anyway of turning landed areas into water? 11:22:54 <Yexo> you can build canals 11:23:01 <Yexo> if you want sea: it's only possible if it's at level 0 11:23:18 <Yexo> just make a connection with other sea tiles and it'll flood 11:26:07 <Cozzie> make a connection with other sea tiles? 11:26:47 <Cozzie> im at the same level as the water 11:27:13 <Yexo> lower land between water and your empty tiles until the sea can flow to your new area 11:27:31 <Yexo> instead of sea you can also connect to a map border if that's easier 11:29:42 *** sla_ro|vista [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 11:30:20 <Cozzie> <a href="http://imgur.com/L9k07" title="Hosted by imgur.com">http://imgur.com/L9k07.png</a> 11:30:23 <Cozzie> gah 11:30:28 <Cozzie> http://imgur.com/L9k07 11:30:34 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:30:44 <Wolf01> those are canals 11:31:08 <Yexo> indeed, those are either canals or it's made with some patch I haven't heard of 11:31:47 <Wolf01> boekabart's leveled water patch, maybe 11:31:52 <planetmaker> I think those are rivers 11:32:08 <planetmaker> the border clearly is a river border, not canal 11:32:22 <Wolf01> rivers.. canals... not sea :D 11:32:27 <planetmaker> yes :-) 11:32:45 <planetmaker> sorry for being pedantic ;-) 11:32:59 <Cozzie> O_O 11:33:00 <Cozzie> confused 11:33:02 <Cozzie> yes this is a senario 11:33:09 <Cozzie> i was testing out something and it is an eye sore 11:33:38 <Cozzie> so i cant flood it? 11:33:41 <planetmaker> nope 11:33:54 <planetmaker> only sea floods. Rivers and canals don't 11:35:05 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-097-095-150.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 11:35:20 <flitz> greetings, openttd 11:35:51 <Cozzie> fun scenario though, 1.3k of farm production =x 11:48:09 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbab3a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:52:01 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.224.180.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 12:08:13 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-115-250.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 12:09:41 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-016-214.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:15:07 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Werrakirchen%20Transport,%2018.%20Jan%201934.png 12:17:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd love to see how coop people would route cargo trains through a mostly single-track network :p 12:19:03 <flitz> nice shot, eddi 12:19:18 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, I'd recon we'd quickly overload the network with trains ;-) 12:19:29 <flitz> is there a savegame to this ? 12:20:35 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... could do this, but needs chills patch pack 12:20:55 <planetmaker> and modified newgrf ;-) 12:21:01 <planetmaker> seems to be the same savegame :-P 12:21:02 <flitz> for the save ? 12:21:02 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, right ;) 12:21:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's the same game. 12:21:21 <flitz> I use chills patchpack, don't know about the newgrfs :) 12:21:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't distribute the modified newgrfs, so a savegame wouldn't be of much use 12:22:17 <planetmaker> <3 osie :-) 12:22:34 <planetmaker> it's really helpful with screenshots :-) 12:22:52 <flitz> ah ok 12:23:06 <flitz> btw, do you study in halle ? 12:23:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 12:23:38 <peter1138> He studies beer. 12:23:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i study lots of things :p 12:24:09 <peter1138> Yeah, beer and women. 12:24:14 <peter1138> (Or men, I dunno) 12:24:19 <flitz> :D 12:24:52 <flitz> how does it look today ? (i grew up there) 12:25:43 <Eddi|zuHause> besides of lots of closed industries and neglected road repair? 12:26:03 <__ln__> i heard there's a new grocery or something 12:26:31 <flitz> I heard they turned my home area into a forest ... 12:27:09 <Eddi|zuHause> they teared down quite a lot of buildings in Silberhöhe and Neustadt... but "forest" is a little exaggerated :p 12:27:35 <flitz> ok, or something green at least ;) 12:28:26 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.werkstatt-stadt.de/de/projekte/138/ 12:29:11 <__ln__> *(tear, tore, torn) 12:29:35 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever 12:31:42 <flitz> hm, not that the old stuff was actually pretty 12:49:11 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:f0ad:feb8:3b66:acfe] has joined #openttd 12:49:14 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:49:26 <planetmaker> o_O SAC made it again. Into a flaming topic 12:53:25 <peter1138> ? 12:53:55 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:54:44 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 12:57:14 *** ashb [~ash@callisto.firemirror.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:57:51 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=30188&start=1520 12:59:26 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BA36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:59:50 <peter1138> SAC's always trolling, anyway 13:00:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the vapourtroll. 13:00:58 <planetmaker> :-) 13:01:42 *** ashb [~ash@callisto.firemirror.com] has joined #openttd 13:06:04 <Terkhen> :D 13:06:18 <Belugas> hello 13:13:48 <Wolf01> hello Belugas 13:21:23 <Belugas> hi Wolf01 :) 13:33:28 *** Westie [~westie@raptor.typefish.co.uk] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 13:36:34 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbab3a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:40:54 *** TheMask96- [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:42:53 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:45:00 *** Westie [~westie@raptor.typefish.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:47:30 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 13:51:17 *** Westie [~westie@raptor.typefish.co.uk] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 13:52:17 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 13:56:58 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 13:57:02 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:58:33 <Hirundo> Is it possible to disable "vehicle XXX is getting old" news messages? (without disabling all vehicle-related messages, that is) 13:59:08 <planetmaker> good question. Next one please ;-) 14:00:24 <Hirundo> Feature Request: Add a setting to enable/disable "vehicle XXX is getting old" news messages. 14:00:51 *** Westie [~westie@94.242.206.163] has joined #openttd 14:00:51 <planetmaker> or automatically disable that when "vehicles never expire" is on. Or do we do that already then? 14:01:18 <Hirundo> hmm... *checks* 14:01:44 <Hirundo> I have vehicles never expire off, but in 2100 replacing stuff isn't of much use 14:01:56 <planetmaker> renew? 14:02:17 <planetmaker> I rather meant the breakdown setting 14:02:22 <planetmaker> it makes sense with that. 14:02:55 <Hirundo> autorenew and breakdowns are off 14:03:20 <planetmaker> yeah. And without breakdowns there's no need to renew and there's no need for that message. 14:03:22 <Hirundo> http://vcs.openttd.org/hg/openttd/trunk.hg/file/35294c9211f8/src/vehicle.cpp#l1125 <- it checks for autorenew, but nothing else 14:03:25 <planetmaker> but setting might be better 14:03:42 <Hirundo> YAAS (yet another advanced setting) 14:03:55 <planetmaker> hm... there's also a setting which is "autorenew only when breakdowns" or similar. IIRC 14:04:30 <dihedral> Hirundo, 'jazz' would be more creative :-P "just anaza zettingz" 14:04:47 <Hirundo> "Disable servicing when breakdowns set to none" 14:04:59 <Hirundo> I wonder, how that affects autorenew 14:05:23 <planetmaker> no autorenew, if there's no service. 14:05:47 <planetmaker> IIRC, but again, I'd need to test, vehicles don't go into a depot just for being replaced 14:06:49 *** Markavian [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:07:32 <Hirundo> They seem to do for autoreplace, not sure about autorenew (yet) 14:07:44 <planetmaker> but honestly, IMHO the "best" approach would be like you asked a more fine-grain controlled news setting 14:08:10 <Eddi|zuHause> they do go to depot if an autoreplace rule applies, even if servicing is disabled 14:08:31 <planetmaker> ok, then I recalled wrongly :-) 14:08:50 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is usually that you didn't place your depots so they are easily accessible from many routes :p 14:08:58 <planetmaker> :-) 14:09:12 <planetmaker> happens indeed 14:09:44 <Eddi|zuHause> my biggest problem usually is that they are only accessible from one direction. so trains easily get lost after they were in the depot 14:10:32 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes by luck, other times by design, they'll exit through turning at another depot 14:10:57 <planetmaker> yeah... that's why we (coop) usually build service centres which can do the job for autoreplacement with depots easily accessible for all directions 14:11:03 <planetmaker> but then, it's not done too often 14:11:08 <Eddi|zuHause> who wanted to implement drive-through depots/shunting yards? :p 14:12:26 <planetmaker> Possibly some guy from Halle? 14:16:29 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 14:26:26 *** ar3k [~ident@ect247.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:41 *** ar3k [~ident@ect247.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 14:26:42 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 14:29:37 <Cozzie> what's the best strategy to earn money when a game is first started? 14:29:39 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ect247.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 14:32:39 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbab3a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:32:43 <flitz> run a coal train over a distance of ~100 tiles AFAIK 14:33:24 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:33:24 <ccfreak2k> Achievement unlocked! 14:33:30 <Cozzie> hrmmm 14:33:33 <flitz> not sure about the distance, this also depends quite much on the newgrfs you are using, with older and slower and weaker vehicles in the beginning this might be very different 14:33:51 <Cozzie> i tried playing from 1900 with the horse drawn carriage 14:34:00 <flitz> :) me too, some time ago 14:34:08 <Cozzie> that dint go too well 14:34:19 <flitz> at least you really see what trains are worth then ;) 14:34:37 <Cozzie> infrastructure for trains is horridly expensive 14:34:44 <Cozzie> and i am only limiting myself to 200k =/ 14:34:53 <flitz> I barely kept alive until I had enough money to sell my around 50 carriages and buy my first train in the 50's :D 14:35:10 <Cozzie> you used the carriages and survived? 14:35:22 <Cozzie> dont have much grfs that would affect it except egrvts and altered costs and prices 14:35:24 <Cozzie> 1.2 14:35:43 <flitz> i used passenger carriages within a town 14:35:52 <Cozzie> horse drawn? 14:35:58 <flitz> with standard costs and prices, yes, horses 14:36:25 <Cozzie> does not have much documentation but i liked the logic that non perishable does not go down in prices 14:36:26 <flitz> is a bit ago, maybe costs and prices changed since then (there was no option for this when I tried this) 14:37:31 <Cozzie> hrmm gotta investigate what exactly altered costs and prices 1.2 affect 14:39:42 <flitz> I found that with the daylength patch the game can become significantly easier 14:40:46 <flitz> erm... but I also altered it a little bit, so that even though days are longer, payment still stays the same 14:42:51 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 14:43:03 *** ar3k [~ident@ect247.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 14:43:06 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 14:49:21 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 14:53:32 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... either MB messed something up, or i did, or FIRS cargo scheme changed in the mean time... the faster open wagon cannot load scrap metal... 14:54:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i should make a proper DBSetXL-Mod ;) 14:56:09 <Lakie> Doesn't MB explicitly deny the ability for others to modify his work in any way? 14:56:55 <Cozzie> should'nt any deveriatives of ottd be opensource? 14:57:05 <Lakie> He might have chosen to disallow scrap metal in that wagon, using the bitmask. 14:58:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Lakie: you can't disallow modification, you can only disallow distribution 14:59:23 <Lakie> Heh, fair enough 14:59:35 <Eddi|zuHause> more specifically, the copy right explicitly denies the right to forbid modification for "compatibility" of computer programs [here DBSet and FIRS] 15:00:06 <Lakie> I wouldn't really class newgrfs as programs, probably more closer to art 15:00:26 <Yexo> Cozzie: yes, but newgrfs are not deratives of openttd 15:00:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Lakie: the NFO part is clearly a computer program 15:01:05 <Lakie> Maybe in a broad sence, but then one could class xml as a computer program in that sence 15:01:21 <Cozzie> oh intersting, i thought by running on top of ottd, they would be 15:02:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Cozzie: and when you run a program on windows, it is automatically covered by the windows license? 15:03:34 <Cozzie> good point haha 15:06:51 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6F1B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:09:25 *** xvd [~xvd@nova.netitwork.net] has joined #openttd 15:10:03 <xvd> is it possible to group stations and use the group as an entry for the Order list? 15:10:37 <Eddi|zuHause> no 15:11:35 <planetmaker> but you know of shared orders and copying orders, xvd? 15:12:08 <xvd> I remember copying orders but failed to find it again ^_^ 15:16:14 <planetmaker> goto + click on other vehicle 15:16:46 <planetmaker> if you use goto + ctrl + click on other vehicle they share the same orders. Thus if you modify them, it's then valid for all who share the orders 15:18:16 <flitz> and if you [ctrl] + clone a vehicle from the depot view, the cloned veh will share the originators group and orders, too - very useful 15:18:23 <Belugas> that, or search for my wife. You'll find a lot of orders... 15:20:33 <Cozzie> speaking of shortcuts is there one for clone? 15:23:15 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 15:25:34 <flitz> http://wiki.openttd.org/Hotkeys << says no 15:25:56 <Cozzie> yeah checked that 15:26:07 <Cozzie> i believe i can bind myself right? 15:26:23 *** LordAro [~kvirc@host217-43-107-12.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:27:58 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-161-134.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd 15:29:40 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:31:28 <flitz> hm, my hotkeys.cfg is in binary format, don't know 15:31:32 *** Lakie` is now known as Lakie 15:32:27 <flitz> But I would guess that you cannot bind any function to a hotkey which isn't already represented by another hotkey 15:32:52 <flitz> i.e. you can only re-bind 15:33:54 <Yexo> Cozzie: no, you can set custom hotkeys for any item in hotkeys.cfg ,you can't add arbitrary commands 15:34:14 <Yexo> if you really miss some hotkeys for some items feel free to post a feature request about those 15:35:31 <Cozzie> thank you for the answer 15:35:49 <Cozzie> i will ask 15:46:22 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-248-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:47:24 *** JOHN-SHEPARD_ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-76-40.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 15:49:54 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 15:51:31 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... the vehicle offer windows doesn't seem to display additional newgrf text 15:51:34 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-115-250.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:52:26 *** lasershock` [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 15:53:20 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 15:54:11 <Yexo> is it supposed to? 16:00:46 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:55 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:08:08 *** kgust [~kgust@c-66-41-187-237.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kgust] 16:13:34 *** lasershock [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 16:16:12 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-097-095-150.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: flitz] 16:17:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: would be kinda useful to get info like "this is a {city|regional} bus" 16:18:29 <Yexo> true 16:18:34 <Yexo> however which text should be shown there? 16:18:55 <Eddi|zuHause> the same one that is displayed in the buy list? 16:19:08 <Yexo> the text is the buy list is partly by openttd and partly by the newgrf 16:22:19 <Eddi|zuHause> does that matter? 16:22:40 <Eddi|zuHause> basically everything except the reliability should be shown 16:22:40 <Yexo> not perse, but it might give unexpected results 16:23:43 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 16:24:15 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:27:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Lachie: btw. the dbset license specifically talks about the dbset consisting of "graphics" and "program code" 16:30:15 <Eddi|zuHause> err... i meant Lakie 16:30:25 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a weird mis-tabbing :p 16:30:34 <Lakie> Heh 16:30:36 <Lakie> Ok 16:31:42 <Lakie> Still wouldn't think of nfo as a program as such. More stored data intepreted by ttdpatch or openttd/ 16:32:10 <Eddi|zuHause> a program is exactly "stored data interpeted by <machine>" 16:32:41 <Lakie> I guess 16:32:51 <Eddi|zuHause> german copyright is very wide on the definition of what a program is... 16:33:18 <Lakie> Ah, I se 16:39:06 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n0l.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: zodttd] 16:50:49 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0e768.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:53:49 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:57:03 *** einKarl [~einKarl@188-194-18-17-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 16:58:31 *** einKarl [~einKarl@188-194-18-17-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:06 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe3e8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:03:56 *** einKarl [~einKarl@188-194-18-17-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 17:07:29 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:16:20 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:22:47 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-097-090-240.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:23:27 <Cozzie> does having multiple industries in close proximity affect each other's production rate? 17:24:46 <flitz> co-question: is industry dependant on surrounding tiles ? Meaning, does it have any effect if I lay a lot of railroads through a farm's argrarian tiles ? 17:25:22 <LordAro> both: no 17:25:49 <flitz> interesting 17:25:57 <Cozzie> thank you 17:25:58 <flitz> and convenient 17:26:18 <Cozzie> flitz: was checking out earlier this afternoon haha 17:26:27 <Cozzie> found it in the wiki but no mention of industries in close proximity 17:26:33 <LordAro> there are plans to change this, but no more than that (more a draft of a plan actually) 17:26:44 <Cozzie> in what way... this is intersting 17:27:03 <LordAro> flitz: building through farm tiles is more expensive though 17:27:05 <flitz> I have often asked that myself (but always acted the same way regardless) 17:27:45 <LordAro> cozzie: there's something on the wiki somewhere... somewhere in frosch123's user pages 17:27:46 <flitz> so the farm tiles count as belonging to the industry and building through them is like destroying some building first ? 17:27:56 <LordAro> no 17:28:02 <LordAro> the opposite :) 17:28:21 <Cozzie> cool will check it out 17:29:00 <Eddi|zuHause> only the tropic saw mill is dependent on surrounding tiles 17:29:01 <flitz> the opposite is close enough :) 17:30:32 <Cozzie> i dont get it... 17:31:26 <Cozzie> i have a farm that is producing 1328 tonnes of grain and 600 tonnes of livestock (falling from 2000, why...) but the odd thing is that my train still has to wait at the station even though 23% and 33% is transported last month 17:31:29 <Cozzie> confusing =x 17:32:39 <flitz> maybe its the station rating ? 17:33:17 <Cozzie> seems like it 17:34:09 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host201-62-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:34:10 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest1174 17:34:10 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 17:34:41 <Yexo> Cozzie: % transported last month depends on station rating 17:34:58 <Yexo> see the game mechanics wiki page for how it works 17:35:45 <planetmaker> wiki - the unexplored country. Its search function: the hidden treasure 17:36:38 <flitz> sometimes, communication is more fun than just searching and reading ;) 17:36:54 <Yexo> yes :) 17:37:04 <Yexo> and sometimes, pointing to the wiki is easier than explaining yet another time ;) 17:37:35 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 17:37:42 <Yexo> see http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_Mechanics under 2 and 3 17:37:45 <Cozzie> i have read it earlier today, still trying to undrestand 17:37:46 <flitz> true :> 17:38:01 <Cozzie> tbh, the criteria for staiton ration is quite absurd 17:38:13 <Cozzie> *rating 17:40:05 *** Guest1174 [~wolf01@host108-239-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:40:05 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:40:26 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 17:40:54 <Yexo> yes, they are, however it's been working this way since the original transport tycoon 17:41:53 <planetmaker> this game has more oddities in the rules than it has straight forward rules ;-) 17:44:56 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6F1B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:45:15 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:45:18 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:45:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22301 /trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt: 17:45:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 35 changes by Gavin 17:45:43 <flitz> I noticed the game runs much faster (in fast mode), when I decrease the size of the main window. would it be an idea to add some limitations to the number of sprites being drawn/updated in fast mode ? 17:46:28 <Alberth> playing the game in fast mode is not much fun 17:46:34 <planetmaker> you'd perceive it as lag. 17:46:50 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:42 <Alberth> you'd also get inconsistent graphics, people will report such glitches as bugs 17:49:22 <flitz> ok, I don't even use the fast mode that much, mainly early when you still have to wait for money 17:50:03 <flitz> regarding the inconsistencies, I was more thinking about animations on buildings or the surroundings that could be skipped in fast mode. vehicles should still be driving of course 17:50:34 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:51:15 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 17:51:27 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 17:51:29 <Alberth> I believe moving vehicles cause about 90+% of the changes, so your optimization won't make a big dent in the speed. 17:51:52 <Yexo> animation by newgrf buildings can't be skipped 17:52:09 <Yexo> the newgrf can do anything during the animation, like computing some values needed for the production 17:52:46 <flitz> it wasn't a very well thought out idea 17:53:19 <planetmaker> flitz: for a starter disable also full details and full animation ;-) 17:53:33 <SmatZ> and make trees invisible 17:53:37 <SmatZ> possibly buildings as well 17:53:46 <Yexo> does that actually help? 17:53:51 <Alberth> look at the sea :) 17:53:53 <Yexo> as in, don't the tiles still get marked as dirty anyway? 17:54:13 <planetmaker> less to draw possibly when a vehicle passes by 17:54:15 <Alberth> it saves rendering of the trees :) 17:54:22 <SmatZ> for trees and buildings, they are not made dirty unless they are animated 17:54:24 <flitz> a little bit, yes 17:54:25 <Cozzie> odd, i play on fast mode constantly and i dont see those oddities 17:54:32 <glx> rendering is not the biggest cpu eater 17:54:32 <Yexo> yes, but does that make a notable difference? Not saying it doesn't, mainly wondering about it 17:54:41 <planetmaker> but I only found the full details + animation making quite some effect 17:54:53 <planetmaker> the others I never noticed a difference 17:54:57 <flitz> glx: i suppose ai-computations are 17:55:01 <flitz> just as a guess 17:55:12 <SmatZ> Yexo: it should be tested :) 17:55:46 <Yexo> yes, AIs are one of the most cpu consuming parts 17:57:49 <Cozzie> any plans to change the station rating critera? 17:57:52 <Eddi|zuHause> damn... when i synchronize the timetable of my freight train with the passenger trains, i can't synchronize the timetable between the freight trains. i think i need a new siding :( 17:57:56 <Yexo> nope 17:58:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Cozzie: can be changed by newgrf 17:58:26 <Cozzie> i dont see any newgrf doing that though 17:58:34 <Yexo> correct, there is no such newgrf 17:58:50 <Cozzie> curiously why hasent anyone done so? 17:59:13 <Yexo> because it takes times and they had other interesting things to do? 17:59:44 <Alberth> because they don't see those ratings as a problem? 18:00:14 <Cozzie> for a simulation game i thought people would be more pedantic about it heh 18:00:30 <Cozzie> seriously max spee of last ation entering staiton and age of vehicle is really absurd... 18:00:32 <flitz> depends on what it is simulating :) 18:00:48 <Cozzie> i guess i have a pendanticness for realism 18:00:57 <Belugas> Cozzie, thansk for your opinion. noted. now, move on 18:01:11 <Alberth> realism is not a goal of the game imho 18:01:17 <Alberth> hi Belugas! 18:01:23 <Yexo> Cozzie: openttd is a game, not a simulator 18:01:24 <Belugas> sir Alberth :) 18:01:39 <Yexo> and the station rating can only be part of a newgrf that defines cargos, which means it has to be part of an industry newgrf 18:01:51 <Yexo> if you want to use ecs or firs it has to be part of that newgrf 18:02:02 <Yexo> for the default industries you could write a custom newgrf of course 18:02:07 <Cozzie> i see... understood 18:03:29 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:05:16 <Cozzie> btw belugas i felt that was with a bit of a rude tone =/ dint really appreciate it. 18:06:06 <Belugas> well... sorry, but I could retunr the compliment. Look back at what you wrote about the game, and you can see it can be quite irritating to hear those kind of comments 18:06:28 <Alberth> especially when you heard them a zillion times before :) 18:06:33 <Belugas> yeah... 18:08:22 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:44 <Belugas> but granted, when the "realism" keyword has been waved at me, i felt like a bull in front of a red cape... 18:10:42 *** Cozzie|alt [~Cozzie@C-59-101-162-226.mel.connect.net.au] has joined #openttd 18:10:51 <Cozzie|alt> heh thought i got kicked =P 18:11:13 <Belugas> nope, still there :) 18:11:18 <Belugas> both of you hehe 18:11:47 <Cozzie|alt> heh, dced. 18:12:25 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 18:13:01 <Cozzie|alt> i do not want to flame for the sake of flaming and I do understand it can be irritaiting. I have been on your end before, however understand that there has been no mention in the wiki/faq that if it is a common question. Regarding the realism comment, i do understand that this game is far from a realistic simulator ala microsoft flight simulator 18:13:21 *** Cozzie [~Cozzie@C-61-68-166-250.bur.connect.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:14:13 <Cozzie|alt> but the game and many of the grfs have depth and is provides great immersion due to it's relatively realistic approach. Please dont take this the wrong way that i want to argue for the sake of arguing but i just want to explain my position and was not my intent to piss you off or anything 18:14:18 <Belugas> well.. we do not have a published log on all the questions been asked 18:14:37 <Belugas> so it can be understandable 18:15:01 <Belugas> note that on forums, there were some discussions about the realism part 18:15:16 <Yexo> Cozzie|alt: lately it hasn't been so bad, but there are people that argue "signals should work different, they're not realistic" and things like that 18:16:15 <Belugas> the thing is, realism just for sake of seeking realism is absurd in context of the game. It was never intended to be a realistic product 18:16:23 <Cozzie|alt> understood 18:16:35 <Cozzie|alt> there has to be a line drawn as this is inheritantly a game, not a simulator 18:16:43 <Belugas> people always tried to sneak in their ideas of features based on the conc ept that it would add realism 18:16:46 <Belugas> when it did not 18:16:57 <Belugas> indeed Cozzie|alt 18:17:20 <Cozzie|alt> i guess signals would be the least of outrageous suggestions eh? 18:18:07 <Belugas> not outrageous, just think about what it would add to the game as per say, that would be a beter approach 18:18:19 <Alberth> Cozzie|alt: on the other hand, it is also fun to see that people that want realism suddenly want somewhat realistic things out of the game because it bothers them :p 18:18:36 <Belugas> yeah :D 18:18:45 <Belugas> that is also hilarious! 18:20:46 <Cozzie|alt> then in my case, how do i increase my station rating? 18:21:10 <Cozzie|alt> my livestock has fallen to 300 from 1500 18:24:46 <Belugas> ... isn't it the other way around?? 18:25:24 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:39 <Yexo> Cozzie|alt: well, see aforementioned wiki page: http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_Mechanics 18:26:35 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:26:40 <Alberth> Belugas: *to* 300 18:27:21 <Belugas> ho... thanks... i'm on debuging mode, currently... falling in syntaxic mode... 18:27:24 <Belugas> failing 18:27:40 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-43-133.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 18:28:04 <Cozzie|alt> Yexo: on that page but stuck on getting the theory to work in practice 18:28:18 *** zachanima [~zach@dedi.akselii.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:28:23 <Yexo> make sure there is always a vehicle loading at the station 18:28:37 <Yexo> buy a statue in the town if you haven't already done so 18:28:45 <Yexo> and make sure the vehicle is the fastest you can buy 18:29:11 *** JOHN-SHEPARD__ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-97-210.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 18:29:13 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 18:30:55 <flitz> to call inline functions from gdb: is it enough to configure with --enable-debug LVL=3 or do I need to set CFLAGS="O0" ? 18:32:03 <Yexo> it's --enable-debug=3 18:32:06 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 18:32:14 <flitz> thanks 18:33:05 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-241-120.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:35:14 *** JOHN-SHEPARD_ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-76-40.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:39:22 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 18:39:37 <supermop> hello 18:40:15 *** JOHN-SHEPARD__ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-97-210.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:44:32 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 18:45:15 *** dpkendal [~david@5addc44e.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 18:48:53 <flitz> funny, stepping through the instructions of the game in gdb, makes my mp3player stop ... 18:53:46 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 18:58:15 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 19:00:38 <dpkendal> why is it not possible to view the cost of something while paused? 19:00:59 <dpkendal> even though it's not actually going to happen, you still get "Not allowed while paused" 19:02:36 <planetmaker> then enable building while paused 19:04:52 <planetmaker> arguably the cost preview should work, but... it simply doesn't currently. 19:04:59 <planetmaker> If you want, make a feature request 19:06:09 <Alberth> or provide a patch :) 19:07:39 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-240-114.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:07:40 <dpkendal> planetmaker: yeah, i probably will. seems like something that should have been in the original TTD 19:08:05 <planetmaker> haha :-) TTD? 19:08:29 <planetmaker> I'm always amazed at the lack of convenient GUI when I start it every so seldom 19:09:13 <Alberth> does TTD even have a pause button? I cannot remember 19:09:33 <SmatZ> it has :) it doesn't have the fast-forward button 19:09:37 <planetmaker> I think so, but ^ 19:09:42 <flitz> it had busses, that I know 19:10:00 <planetmaker> it has all 4 basic transport types 19:10:08 <planetmaker> but no trams 19:10:20 <planetmaker> nor newgrf support ;-) 19:10:32 <Alberth> nor other signals :) 19:10:34 <flitz> did it have groups ? 19:10:43 <Alberth> nope 19:10:49 <flitz> whow ! :D 19:10:57 <Eddi|zuHause> TT has both pause and cost estimation, but i never tried both... 19:11:14 <Alberth> although I don't use groups in OpenTTD :) 19:11:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it definitely didn't show a "not allowed while paused", but that only means it will be less missed ;) 19:11:42 <flitz> how do you keep your stuff together then ? 19:12:19 <Alberth> it runs at the same tracks, and visits the same station, isn't that enough? 19:12:43 <flitz> but groupwise vehicle-replacement for example 19:12:57 <Alberth> I just replace all 19:13:43 <Alberth> I play usually from 1950 to 1980-1990, then I get bored and quit :) 19:14:16 <Alberth> although in the past I have played longer 19:14:33 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host62-62-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:14:33 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest1188 19:14:34 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 19:14:44 <Alberth> hello Wolf01 19:14:49 <flitz> thinking about it I must admit that replace all must work just fine 19:15:12 <Wolf01> hi Alberth 19:15:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't use groups for trains either. groups for road vehicles occasionally, but only when i have nothing better to do... 19:15:21 <flitz> but I just like to neglect some smaller lines and keep deprecated vehicles running on them for a while :) 19:16:39 <flitz> weird, I always thought groups where essential and now I read that nobody is using them... 19:17:00 <Yexo> my AI is using them :p 19:17:14 <Wolf01> I use them 19:17:19 <Alberth> it depends on your playing style perhaps 19:17:52 <Alberth> and how many vehicles you have 19:18:46 <flitz> lol, Yexo 19:20:30 *** Guest1188 [~wolf01@host201-62-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:21:11 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 19:21:22 <flitz> but setting up groups for every line is a lot of work, maybe I will just try without them the next time 19:23:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i tend to replace each train individually, because i can't trust the trains to find a depot by themselves 19:24:33 <Alberth> I have depots all over the place, since I play with breakdowns and servicing on :) 19:24:48 <frosch123> [21:10] <flitz> did it have groups ? <- you do not need groups if you cannot even clone 19:26:02 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 19:27:14 <flitz> but one advantage of groups still is that you see at a glance how many vehicles you have on each line 19:32:08 <Alberth> is that interesting? you can also look at how many trains visit some key station if you want to known 19:32:11 <Alberth> -n 19:32:41 <Alberth> I just make sure there is always a train loading, how many trains I need is not interesting to me 19:34:36 <Alberth> sorry to make groups useless ;) 19:34:37 <Eddi|zuHause> it is interesting how many trams are on one line, if you want to timetable them every N minutes 19:35:09 <dpkendal> Something I've never known is whether fund new buildings and fund new roads affects your local authority rating -- does it? 19:35:15 <Alberth> how good are time tables with break downs? 19:35:27 <flitz> it must be just a matter of being used to something 19:35:48 <Alberth> flitz: luckily there are many ways of playing the game :) 19:35:53 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.74.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:43 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.74.86] has joined #openttd 19:36:50 <flitz> I play with CargoDist (PAX) and when towns begin to grow my lines need more capacity. I somehow like to see the relation of the size and impact of my lines on a single screen, with pretty names to them too ;) 19:37:27 <Alberth> dpkendal: I think new roads are mostly for messing with your competitors. I don't know whether they affect town rating, you'll have to check the source for that 19:37:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i play without breakdowns 19:37:40 <flitz> you may call me a controlfreak or burocrate now if you want :p 19:38:26 <Alberth> flitz: oh, Cargodist is a completely different game, have not played it much. It may well be that you need more administration then 19:38:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i guess it ranges from "bad" [you need to schedule appropriate catch-up times] to "terrible" [vehicles of the same timetable may overtake, so you'll never be able to catch up] 19:39:06 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: pity. I have the feeling breakdowns cause so much mess that time tables are useless then 19:39:31 <Alberth> at least I have not yet seen any useful effect with them :) 19:40:10 <flitz> I'm out for today, see you 19:40:13 <Eddi|zuHause> timetables are very useful for trams, because otherwise they tend to bunch up 19:40:20 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-097-090-240.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: flitz] 19:41:00 <Alberth> trains do that too, but slower :) 19:41:40 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe3e8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but trams are least likely to overtake and screw up the timetable spacing :p 19:43:35 <Alberth> :) 19:45:43 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.74.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:17 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 19:46:24 *** alluke [~52b528fd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:46:47 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.74.86] has joined #openttd 19:56:42 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.74.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:31 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.74.86] has joined #openttd 20:00:58 *** alluke [~52b528fd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:03:59 *** WargH [51ea85b5@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:07:12 <WargH> Good eavning. I love the new option "Sea level Custom". But I'd like to know if anyone knows what the setting high equals in %. It would help me a bit with my experamenting on getting a map to my linking. I can't find any info about it in the Wiki. 20:07:25 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.74.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:38 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:13 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.74.86] has joined #openttd 20:10:53 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 20:14:14 <Alberth> that would be world generation? 20:14:26 *** einKarl [~einKarl@188-194-18-17-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:16 <Alberth> _settings_game.game_creation.custom_sea_level * 1024 / 100; 20:18:35 <Alberth> /** Desired water percentage (100% == 1024) - indexed by _settings_game.difficulty.quantity_sea_lakes */ 20:18:45 <Alberth> ie 100 == 100%, it seems 20:18:52 <Alberth> does that make sense? 20:19:43 <Alberth> please fix the wiki :) 20:19:51 <dihedral> hehe 20:20:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: he asked about the other settings low/medium/high, what percentages they would represent 20:20:43 <Eddi|zuHause> at least that's how i understood the question 20:20:55 <Alberth> static const amplitude_t _water_percent[4] = {20, 80, 250, 400}; and apply * 100 / 1024 20:21:13 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: that information was nearby too :) 20:21:18 <Eddi|zuHause> @caöc 400*100/1024 20:21:19 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, at least you understood the question ^^ 20:21:22 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 400*100/1024 20:21:22 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 39.0625 20:22:21 <Alberth> my reading abilties rapidly decrease at these time of the day 20:23:06 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe35dc00-187.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 20:24:27 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.224.180.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:28:07 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.74.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:56 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.74.86] has joined #openttd 20:31:16 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 20:31:30 <Belugas> me too, Alberth 20:31:38 <Belugas> altough it's not the same time frame :) 20:36:55 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38:33 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-14-253.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:41:54 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:44:41 <WargH> So if I understand you correctly high setting on sea level = aprox. 39% water? 20:45:02 *** LordAro [~kvirc@host217-43-107-12.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.1 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:45:24 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 20:46:34 <Yexo> that's what they told you, yes 20:47:06 <Ruudjah> Who is Nathanael Rebsch? 20:47:32 <Ruudjah> as in what nick does he use and does he hang around here? 20:47:50 <Yexo> dihedral 20:48:23 *** sla_ro|vista [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:33 <Ruudjah> thanks 20:48:43 <WargH> Thank you 20:50:43 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:50:58 *** Richard52 [Dmitriy@109-184-40-167.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #openttd 20:51:00 <Richard52> hello 20:51:07 <Richard52> Some russian here? 20:51:24 <Yexo> probably yes, however this is an english only channel 20:51:39 <Richard52> Sorry, i am here first time 20:51:51 <Yexo> welcome :) 20:51:54 <dihedral> Ruudjah, don't need a private chat ;-) 20:51:54 <Richard52> Where is russian channel? 20:51:58 <dihedral> feel free to chat publicly 20:52:01 <Richard52> I have problems with OTTD 20:52:19 * dihedral automatically read with an accent ^^ 20:52:31 <Yexo> I'm not aware of any russian channel. If you could try to explain your problem in english we might be able to help you 20:52:38 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 20:52:48 <Richard52> Does anyone know, where are files, where town names are? 20:53:01 <Yexo> I assume you want russian town names? 20:53:05 <Richard52> YES 20:53:17 <Richard52> You are fast as hell 20:53:20 <Richard52> Thank you 20:53:29 <Richard52> So, where i can get it? 20:53:31 <Yexo> start openttd, click on "check online content" in the bottom left of the main menu 20:53:31 <glx> I think there's a newgrf 20:53:45 <Richard52> I know how to download addons 20:53:47 <Richard52> but 20:53:56 <Richard52> what is the name of russian town names? 20:54:21 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 20:54:23 <Richard52> Where is Ukrainian, Turkish, german, lots of them 20:54:31 <Richard52> where is russian? 20:54:54 <planetmaker> If it is available via online content it will be called Russian Town Names 20:54:57 <Yexo> apparently it's not available in the online content system 20:55:04 <Yexo> you could try this one: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=33344&p=612502#p612502 20:56:15 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.74.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:22 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:56:41 <Ruudjah> I'm scared to chat here in public 20:57:04 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.74.86] has joined #openttd 20:57:04 <Yexo> hmm, that grf appears to be broken 20:58:24 *** Richard52 [Dmitriy@109-184-40-167.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:26 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i need some cheap forklift kind of vehicle... 20:58:29 *** Richard52 [Dmitriy@109-184-40-167.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #openttd 20:58:52 <supermop> ahh i was just showing andy the other day: 20:59:01 <Eddi|zuHause> something that doesn't cost much, so i can let it run back and forth at a transfer station, to keep the rating up 20:59:11 <Richard52> Sorry, i was looking for russian town names in game built-in downloader 20:59:24 <supermop> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_83QN4VcTdOc/SU2JkrbDU6I/AAAAAAAABYM/grdcIgxbmB0/s400/Tsukiji+Truck.jpg 20:59:32 <Yexo> Richard52: I don't think any working russion town name grf is available 20:59:34 <xvd> Was there a way to rotate the world view? 20:59:35 <Richard52> So, what do you think, where i can get it? 20:59:45 <Richard52> But i know russian packs 20:59:52 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 20:59:52 <Richard52> You even can download them 21:00:00 <Yexo> are you using windows? 21:00:06 <Richard52> there is russian town names 21:00:13 <Richard52> I am using Windows 7 Ultimate 21:00:44 <Yexo> download that pack with russian town names, extract it in "Documents\OpenTTD\Data" and restart openttd 21:00:45 <planetmaker> xvd: nope 21:00:53 <Richard52> Maybe, i should look for it in data folder? 21:00:58 <Yexo> after that it should be listed in the "NewGRF settings" window 21:01:00 <Richard52> lol 21:01:10 <planetmaker> Richard52: there's a russian site dedicated to ttd / openttd and variations. They surely know 21:01:21 <planetmaker> where their grfs are to be gotten from 21:01:25 <Richard52> There is a few people 21:01:25 <Yexo> Richard52: there is no russian town names grf in the online content system, so you'll have to download it yourself with a web-browser 21:01:41 <Richard52> How to upload it to online content system? 21:01:57 <Lakie`> You don't the authors do 21:01:58 <Richard52> I do not want others to have problems like i do 21:01:59 <supermop> how about that one Eddi|zuHause 21:02:00 <Yexo> you're not allowed to do that unless you are the creator of the grf 21:02:11 <Richard52> Oh, please 21:02:24 <Richard52> All russian community made that file 21:02:25 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: it's fairly useless unless it's in GRF form ;) 21:02:26 <planetmaker> sorry, the terms of service are clear 21:02:32 <Richard52> everybody improves it 21:02:39 <Richard52> it is open 21:02:51 <Yexo> still there is probably one person who makes the last version, ask him/her to upload it 21:02:54 <supermop> 2 pixels wide, 6 pixels long 21:03:00 <supermop> 1 crate 21:03:10 <supermop> 5 mph 21:03:24 <Yexo> you'll need an account on http://bananas.openttd.org/ to upload content 21:03:32 <Richard52> If i will make something, how to upload it? 21:04:19 <planetmaker> but please don't make us remove content again because you are not the author of what you uploaded 21:04:29 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 21:05:03 <Richard52> oh shit 21:05:26 <Richard52> i copied everything as some guy said 21:05:29 <Richard52> nothing 21:05:37 <Richard52> i activated all GRFs 21:05:40 <Richard52> nope 21:05:56 <Alberth> isn't it in the game options? 21:06:18 <Alberth> there is 'town names' there 21:06:19 <Richard52> yes 21:06:33 <Richard52> and there is no "russian" 21:06:37 <Richard52> but i toggled it on 21:06:55 <Richard52> what does "gm" folder contain? 21:07:03 <Richard52> music? 21:07:04 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:07:11 <Alberth> usually music files 21:07:31 <Richard52> Does lang files contain town names? 21:07:33 *** Lakie` is now known as Lakie 21:07:37 <Alberth> no 21:07:47 <Richard52> where are they by defaukt? 21:07:53 <Richard52> default* 21:08:15 * Alberth thinks in game options 21:08:24 <Richard52> files 21:08:27 <Richard52> not settings 21:08:29 <Yexo> the default list of town names are encoded directly in the game, you can't change them 21:08:32 <Yexo> there are no files for those 21:08:34 <Richard52> where i can get it? 21:08:40 <Richard52> omg, so hard 21:08:56 <Yexo> all town name grfs are in the data/ directory (or downloaded_content/data/) 21:08:56 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has joined #openttd 21:09:02 <andythenorth> eveninks 21:09:15 <Yexo> evening andy 21:09:23 <Alberth> oddinks andy 21:10:37 * andythenorth has had a sad evening waiting for a tow truck :( 21:11:27 * Eddi|zuHause has problems keeping a HEQS-related joke to himself 21:11:36 <andythenorth> no share :P 21:11:49 <andythenorth> it will help relieve my sadness 21:12:05 <Richard52> what is hs.dat? 21:12:09 <Richard52> in main folder 21:12:10 <andythenorth> I think there are going to be downsides to owning the only model of a certain vehicle in the whole uk :P 21:12:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Richard52: the high score table 21:12:53 <Richard52> i have found file russian2w.grf 21:13:02 <Richard52> it was just glyphs 21:13:15 <Yexo> you can't edit a grf file with a text editor 21:13:23 <Belugas> lovely 21:13:26 <Belugas> WEEKEND!!!!!! 21:13:31 <planetmaker> enjoy! 21:13:33 <Belugas> bye all 21:13:36 <Yexo> enjoy Belugas 21:13:37 <Belugas> quite! 21:13:42 <Eddi|zuHause> bye Belugas 21:13:48 <Belugas> same for you guys :D 21:14:10 <Alberth> happy weekend Belugas 21:14:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: anyway, i was just discussing with supermop how i could really use a forklift-kind of vehicle right now. to boost rating at a transfer station 21:14:35 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: such a thing is possible 21:14:41 <andythenorth> maybe not wise, but possible 21:15:06 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: wouldn't the low speed of such a forklift vehicle be a disadvantage for the ratings? 21:15:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: no, anything below 80km/h is irrelevant, afaik 21:15:25 <planetmaker> :-D high-speed forklift ;-) 21:15:40 <Yexo> well, if you don't have a vehicle above 80km/h available, you're right 21:15:55 <andythenorth> I have a vehicle in my garage that now goes 0mph 21:16:01 <andythenorth> I suspect a shredded gearbox 21:16:08 <andythenorth> I will now have to import spares from India :( 21:16:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: no, my freight trains won't be going beyond 80km/h for a long time... most go 50km/h 21:17:02 <andythenorth> on the downside my vehicle is unique in the UK. On the upside there are about 1m of them in India 21:17:16 <Yexo> that is one of the biggest disadvantages of the current station rating, that the vehicle speed is taken into account 21:17:22 <andythenorth> is it? 21:17:29 <andythenorth> that explains a lot in my games :) 21:17:34 <andythenorth> change it... 21:17:44 <Yexo> andythenorth: see http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_Mechanics#Station_rating 21:17:55 <Yexo> any cargo newgrf can change it 21:18:02 <Yexo> (yes, I'm hinting at firs :p) 21:18:05 <andythenorth> ha 21:18:09 <andythenorth> maybe a ticket... 21:18:54 <Eddi|zuHause> my biggest problem with rating is that it drops drastically if there's no vehicle for a few days 21:19:10 <Eddi|zuHause> anything <30 days should keep the rating above 50% 21:19:29 <Yexo> that too, but I always work around that by always having a vehicle on full-load in the station 21:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> but full load and timetables are not compatible 21:20:00 <Yexo> true 21:20:21 <Yexo> I never use timetables, so that's not a problem for me 21:21:28 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:21:51 <Richard52> FUCK YEAH! 21:22:19 <Richard52> I have found russian pack 1.1.0 WITH RUSSIAN TOWN NAMES! It's over 7.5 thousands! 21:22:37 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:24:29 <Richard52> Thank you guys! 21:24:40 <Richard52> It is 1:24 in Russia now 21:24:48 *** WargH [51ea85b5@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:24:49 <Yexo> you're welcome, I'm glad you found a working version 21:24:55 <Richard52> It is better to get in bed. 21:25:04 <Richard52> You are awesome, community 21:25:31 <Richard52> OpenTTD - one of best games ever 21:25:50 <Richard52> (but i wtill have problems because i am newbie) 21:26:08 <Yexo> you can pop in anytime to ask questions 21:26:31 <Yexo> and don't forget to check the wiki, large parts are translation in russian already: http://wiki.openttd.org/%D0%93%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0/Ru 21:26:44 <Ruudjah> what's the most developed admin interface for ottd? 21:26:50 <Richard52> Sometimes I need google translate. 21:27:00 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has joined #openttd 21:27:06 <Richard52> This is the reason I am looking for russian community. 21:27:59 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:28:51 <Richard52> help me now 21:29:04 <Yexo> Richard52: did you see http://open.ttdrussia.net/ already? 21:29:34 <Yexo> and their forums: http://forums.ttdrussia.net/ 21:29:41 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what capacity for a forklift? 21:29:50 <Eddi|zuHause> 1t? 21:31:09 <planetmaker> Ruudjah: afaik it's joan / grapes: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grapes 21:31:32 <planetmaker> at least it gives you a java client which connects out of the box. 21:32:01 <planetmaker> But it does not actually do much. It has a (separate) PW change plugin but nothing more 21:34:08 *** Richard52 [Dmitriy@109-184-40-167.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 21:34:48 <supermop> i also say 1 21:35:13 <andythenorth> ho 21:35:18 <andythenorth> well...maybe 21:35:51 <supermop> i also still lobby for the little 3 wheel fish market thing 21:36:20 <supermop> would need a slower loding speed as the guy has to put the box on the back himself 21:36:21 <andythenorth> :) 21:36:41 * andythenorth needs some feedback on new CHIPS 21:36:49 <supermop> and high running cost due to drunk tourists stealing them for joyrides 21:39:50 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... cargodist is horribly confused by my vehicle that loads and unloads at the same station... 21:39:54 <Ruudjah> java :) 21:39:58 * Ruudjah cheers 21:40:39 <supermop> goes out of service at end of line? 21:42:47 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-240-114.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:42:48 *** Richard52 [kvirc@109-184-40-167.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #openttd 21:43:48 <Richard52> hello 21:43:57 <Richard52> i am back, from client 21:44:19 <Richard52> yexo, omg, you are developer 21:44:48 <Yexo> yes, as are several other people in this channel :) 21:45:03 <Alberth> they walk around freely here :) 21:45:06 <Richard52> So active developers 21:45:06 <supermop> Andy, did you bring a vehicle home with you as a souvenir? 21:45:15 <Richard52> so near to players 21:45:22 <Richard52> Awesome 21:45:26 <andythenorth> supermop: today I bought a vehicle home on a truck 21:45:32 <andythenorth> with flashing lights 21:45:43 <andythenorth> it was very dull, and is going to be expensive :P 21:45:51 <Richard52> Developers, do you know about russian guy, who is developing 3D mode for OpenTTD? 21:46:02 <Yexo> I don't know of any 3D mode for OpenTTD 21:46:11 <supermop> if its the thing you showed me the other day, are they even legal in the uk? 21:46:23 <andythenorth> sort of 21:46:29 <andythenorth> it's a grey area :P 21:46:38 <supermop> looked like a tuk tuk thing from thailand 21:46:41 <andythenorth> I have a certificate saying it's legal 21:46:41 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: join my irc at irc.sla-company.co.cc] 21:46:47 <supermop> hah 21:46:49 <supermop> MOT? 21:47:01 <andythenorth> that comes up soon, dunno if it will pass 21:47:12 <Richard52> Here is LINK: http://forums.ttdrussia.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3173 21:47:21 <Richard52> just press picture 21:47:25 <supermop> i really like japanese kei cars, but they are essentially illegal here 21:47:44 <supermop> some really old ones get grandfathered in 21:47:57 <Richard52> flipped world 21:48:02 <planetmaker> good night 21:48:04 <Terkhen> good night 21:48:13 <Richard52> Are you watching picture? 21:48:18 <Richard52> http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/08/09/08/17/4686928_1680x1000.png 21:49:02 <andythenorth> supermop: wagon r is legal in uk 21:49:31 <Yexo> Richard52: it seems outdated and unfinished 21:49:39 * andythenorth should go to sleep 21:49:40 <Richard52> he is working 21:49:44 <andythenorth> good night 21:49:49 <Yexo> gn andy 21:49:51 <Alberth> there are several such attempts Richard52 21:49:53 <andythenorth> bye 21:49:54 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has left #openttd [] 21:50:08 <Richard52> He said, what he is annoyed doing it. 21:50:19 <Richard52> By the way, say, it is cool 21:51:17 <Yexo> yes, it's cool 21:51:41 <Yexo> unfortunately there is no chance at all that it will work correctly with current newgrf sets 21:51:54 <Yexo> which means by changing to 3d you disable a huge amount of custom content 21:52:53 <Yexo> which is probably point 3 of his complains: "in-game graphics are not separated from the logic of places. " (that's from an automatic translation of the page) 21:53:57 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-161-134.joensuunelli.fi] has quit [Quit: asilv] 21:56:15 <Richard52> Does anyone know about bux.to? 21:56:30 <Zuu> No 21:57:19 <Richard52> When i will have money, i will give it to YOU 21:57:23 <Richard52> Developers 21:57:28 <Yexo> don't 21:57:30 <Richard52> I am going in bed 21:57:35 <Richard52> Why not? 21:57:41 <Yexo> it's a useless system that requires manual work every day 21:57:51 <Richard52> Bux.to? 21:58:06 <Yexo> they say they'll pay you 0.01$ for every site you view or so 21:58:13 <Yexo> my time is worth more than that 21:58:13 <Richard52> I have Milticlicker. It clicks automatically. 21:58:24 <Richard52> I do everything 21:58:35 <Richard52> I launch it and do everything 21:58:50 <Richard52> it can click more, than 1 profile 21:58:53 <Yexo> do whatever you want, I won't join something like that 21:58:57 <Richard52> i already have 17 dollars 21:59:05 <Richard52> i just test it 21:59:19 <Richard52> it does not require risk and money 21:59:21 *** xvd [~xvd@nova.netitwork.net] has quit [Quit: *] 21:59:38 <Zuu> My work sounds more fun than that. 21:59:38 <Richard52> if i will get money, i will give all of to developers of OTTD 22:00:18 <Zuu> But good luck if that is what you like to do. 22:00:33 <Richard52> This is addictive job 22:00:37 <Richard52> I am just 14 22:00:41 <Yexo> Richard52: I develop for openttd because I find it fun, not to earn money 22:00:47 <Richard52> OMG 22:00:51 <Richard52> REALLY? 22:00:51 <Yexo> all donations for openttd are used for the website / hosting the content etc. 22:00:56 <Richard52> You guys are awesome 22:01:13 <Richard52> i want to support your developing 22:01:19 <Richard52> thank you 22:01:21 <Zuu> If devs would get say 0/hour OpenTTD would have cost a hell lot of money to make. 22:01:54 <Richard52> How much money do you get per month by donates? 22:02:11 <Yexo> I don't know exactly 22:02:13 <Zuu> But donates towards the servers are probably still welcome. 22:02:16 <Alberth> just enough to pay the bill for the server / hosting 22:02:17 <Yexo> more than enough to pay for hosting costs 22:02:52 <Richard52> it is good 22:02:54 <Zuu> Then maybe a donation towards tt-forums is of higher usage. 22:03:01 <Richard52> I have a friend 22:03:07 <Richard52> his nickname is Nickware 22:03:09 <Richard52> nickware.ru 22:03:14 <Richard52> he is developer 22:03:29 <Alberth> Zuu: good point, tt-forums tends to be forgotten 22:03:30 <Richard52> He made a program, which optimizes computers 22:03:42 <Richard52> it was freeware 22:03:55 <Richard52> but he lives in Saint-Petersburg, Russian 22:04:05 <Richard52> There is problems with money 22:04:07 <Yexo> Richard52: if you want to help: advertise the game among your friends, help them with any questions they might have, perhaps help with translating the wiki 22:04:16 <Yexo> there are lots of ways to help that don't cost money at all 22:04:23 <Richard52> This is the reason why he made his tool non-freeware 22:04:39 <Richard52> Oh yeah? thank you 22:04:43 <Richard52> i will translate the wiki 22:05:01 <Richard52> Yexo, where are you from? 22:05:05 <Yexo> netherlands 22:05:15 <Richard52> Some russian here? 22:05:28 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:05:33 <Yexo> george, but he's not often on irc 22:05:46 <Richard52> He is official developer? 22:05:54 <Yexo> no, he's made the ECS grfs 22:06:01 <Richard52> ok 22:06:02 <Ruudjah> Richard52: what's rukoprikladyvayuschegosya and gustozameshanny? 22:06:12 <Zuu> no, a list of official devs you find in the readme.txt 22:06:27 <Yexo> or on the site: http://www.openttd.org/en/contact 22:06:30 <Richard52> Ruudjah: what? 22:07:12 <Ruudjah> http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.ttdrussia.net%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D17%26t%3D3173 aug 10 18:11 22:07:58 <Yexo> I have to get up very early tomorrow, so goodnight from me too 22:08:35 <Richard52> rukoprikladyvauschegosya - hand appluing 22:08:41 <Richard52> hand appliyng 22:08:44 <Richard52> working 22:09:29 <Richard52> Ruudjah: gustozameschanny - tangled 22:09:42 <Ruudjah> that clears things up 22:11:54 <Richard52> Guys, help 22:12:11 <Richard52> Where can i get WYSIWYG for wiki? 22:12:34 <Zuu> Why do you need that? 22:13:02 <Zuu> Except for tables, there arn't much complicated codes. 22:13:10 <Richard52> It is not very comfortable for me to edit code. 22:13:48 <Zuu> You will probably do more harm if you use a WYSIWYG than editing the code directly. 22:14:05 <Ruudjah> ^^ such remarks infuriate me endlessly 22:15:02 <Zuu> But then, I always write my HTML/CSS code line by line instead of using a point-and-click program. :-) 22:15:18 <Ruudjah> It's #1 reason why I enthusastically start editing wiki's, then after 15 minutes I'm like "fraq it, this sucks, I'm constantly looking things up, and get distracted of actually editing" 22:15:58 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:02 <Ruudjah> instead of being busy with actual writing, I'm busy wasting braincycles on getting layout right 22:16:28 <Zuu> Usually I only need to know how to write headlines and how to make links. More than that is mostly not needed to edit a wiki page. 22:16:59 <Ruudjah> edit -> preview -> correct -> edit -> preview correct 22:17:22 <Ruudjah> "oh wait I forgot to add this thing I just came up with" 22:17:37 <Zuu> Sounds like yoo have too high ambitions about layouting in a wiki :-) 22:17:57 <Ruudjah> simple stuff really 22:18:01 <Ruudjah> add an image 22:18:17 *** Richard52 [kvirc@109-184-40-167.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:18:46 <Ruudjah> go to upload image page, upload image, wait for 3 postbacks to return, lookup the wiki dsl how to actually add image (which is off course different on each wiki) 22:19:35 <Ruudjah> edit->preview->correct->preview->resize->preview->layout on correct place of page->preview->syntax error->correct->preview 22:20:14 <Ruudjah> I edited a few pages on ottd wiki, which I do about every year to conclude its too cumbersome 22:20:29 <Ruudjah> then need another year to build up the enthusiasm again 22:21:16 <Ruudjah> So I researched what needs to be done to write a decent wysiwyg editor for mediawiki 22:22:19 <Ruudjah> conclusion: the mediawiki markup is such a big mess, you can';t even write a parser because there's this part of MW which is buildup usong all kinds of regexes which define the MW parsing 22:22:23 *** Richard52|2 [kvirc@109-184-40-167.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #openttd 22:22:53 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-248-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:22:55 <Ruudjah> So in order to have decent wysiwyg editors, the MW markup needs to be changed first. Which is hell, since it must be translated at once 22:22:58 <Ruudjah> sorry 22:23:07 <Zuu> Regular expressions are really useful when you learn how to use them. 22:23:14 <Ruudjah> I got dragged away here 22:23:24 <Ruudjah> sure 22:23:24 <Richard52|2> shit 22:24:43 <Zuu> I personally don't se a big issue that you have to preview your page to check your code. After all that is very similar to most how development work. But then I'm probably more a programmer type of person. 22:25:19 <Ruudjah> So all the current wysiwyg editors are half assed editors restricted to making text bold, adding an alinea, basic stuff really, which can;t be extended to say adding templates because it would just make the mess 20 worse 22:25:22 <Ruudjah> *times 22:25:39 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 22:26:07 <Ruudjah> the primary reason jimmy wales said no wysiwyg editor before 2013 22:27:33 <Zuu> <Ruudjah> So all the current wysiwyg editors are half assed editors restricted to making text bold, adding an alinea, basic stuff really, which can;t be extended to say adding templates because it would just make the mess 20 worse <--- Exactly my reason for why recommending sticking to the code. Less risk of messing up. 22:27:50 <Ruudjah> The problem is: the wiki editors make me meta-think 22:28:17 <Ruudjah> I want to think on the subject only, not be distracted on the "how" 22:28:20 <Zuu> Most wysiwyg-editors in web-development tend to mess up the code and make it hard to use for manual code edits. 22:28:30 <Ruudjah> true 22:28:45 *** Richard52|2 [kvirc@109-184-40-167.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:29:06 <Ruudjah> Which is exactly the reason why the development of the new markup is so hard; It must be human and machine readable 22:29:54 <Ruudjah> because all the old MW editors don't like wysiwyg (afraid for change, or dont want to learn/change habits), which is fair, but postpones proper editors for the coming years 22:30:04 <Ruudjah> editors -> I mean humans 22:33:41 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:19 <Wolf01> I think is better to understand the basic first, or it will happen like with MS Frontpage: a lot of people making web pages whose source was unreadable by a *standard* browser and by humans 22:39:32 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-016-214.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 22:40:35 <Wolf01> WYSIWYG is cool, but without basics (not WYSISYG) you can't understand where to put your hands if there is something you can't get with a WYSIWYG editor 22:40:53 <Ruudjah> You are being very rude to people 22:41:10 <Ruudjah> let me explain 22:41:47 <Ruudjah> You ask average humans to learn a language to just edit a document 22:42:43 <Ruudjah> would be somthing if MS Office, when you opened it, showed a message: "To use this program, please first learn the way the document is actually stored to disk" 22:42:59 <Ruudjah> (dont take my remark about rude to serious) 22:43:53 <Wolf01> I had to help peoples to change an ASP site code because they wanted to modify something using some WYSIWYG editor and they didn't understand how ASP worked, they only focused on the output 22:46:39 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0e768.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:46:51 <Wolf01> <Ruudjah> would be somthing if MS Office, when you opened it, showed a message: "To use this program, please first learn the way the document is actually stored to disk" <- no, but I think is better that you at least learnt the way to align a title without using spaces or how to use tabs 22:48:00 *** hoax__ [U2FsdGVkX1@dhcp-077-249-151-209.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:06 *** dpkendal [~david@5addc44e.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: dpkendal] 22:48:22 <Wolf01> I don't want to get people to learn PHP just to modify a wiki, but they can learn how to make titles and links, it's 5 minutes of their time wasted for something useful 22:49:34 <Wolf01> WYSIWYG editors (especially bad ones) tend to use unneeded informations, such [[This is a link|This is a link]] instead of just [[This is a link]] 22:55:10 *** Markavian [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:55:34 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 22:58:14 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! 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