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00:08:42 *** keoz [~keikoz@141.2.119.208] has joined #openttd 00:24:19 *** Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-114-225.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:25:12 *** JVassie_ is now known as JVassie 00:36:18 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 00:37:03 *** Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-88-114.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 00:40:39 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:43:42 *** adamkex [~adam@89-253-104-158.customers.ownit.se] has joined #openttd 00:50:55 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:57:37 *** keoz [~keikoz@141.2.119.208] has quit [Quit: keoz] 00:59:39 <Wolf01> 'night 00:59:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host152-235-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 01:38:23 *** Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-88-114.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:41 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:42:37 <adamkex> what ai should i use? 01:46:31 *** kgust [~kgust@c-66-41-187-237.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kgust] 02:26:17 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-146-068.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:31:35 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-248-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:39:04 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-66-250.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:41:53 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 02:42:07 <Nite> anyone on at this time? 02:45:46 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:2c91:e9d1:6153:ba6b] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:19:23 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip4.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 03:25:30 *** murr4y [~murray@101.84-48-68.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:38:00 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:40:39 *** murr4y [~murray@101.84-48-68.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 04:29:16 <Chris_Booth> nite I am 2 hours later XD 04:29:25 <Chris_Booth> Nite I am 2 hours later XD 04:42:10 *** Chris_Booth_ [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 04:47:34 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:47:37 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 04:56:03 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77B36.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7611C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:59:38 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 05:00:46 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:16 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:17:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D494.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 06:23:04 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6ABFB.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:30:36 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe35dc00-187.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:44:27 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has joined #openttd 06:56:37 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 06:57:35 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 07:06:59 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:07:02 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:07:23 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:08:37 <andythenorth> windmill animation is very boring 07:09:20 <Rubidium> maybe animate catastrophic blade failure? 07:10:42 <andythenorth> ho 07:10:45 <andythenorth> maybe 07:10:59 <andythenorth> it would be much easier to animate a 'day without wind' 07:11:30 <Alberth> or have it rotate so fast you don't see the blades any more :) 07:11:46 <andythenorth> tried that already :P 07:12:05 <Rubidium> Alberth: fails when the game's paused ;) 07:13:09 <Alberth> time freezing is a bug in the program :) 07:13:40 <andythenorth> Alberth: you could pull FIRS and give your opinion 07:13:41 <andythenorth> ? 07:14:02 <Alberth> besides, you can build new stuff while paused, so it is not that paused at all :p 07:16:48 <Alberth> pulling and building works with the latest grfcodec ! :p 07:17:23 <Alberth> let me have a look what version I played last 07:18:17 <Terkhen> good morning 07:19:19 <Alberth> good morning 07:19:20 <andythenorth> hi Terkhen 07:20:12 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D4B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:25:24 <Alberth> something specific you want me to look at? 07:28:59 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:36:20 <andythenorth> Alberth: the windmill 07:36:37 <andythenorth> it builds as a layout variation on the grain mill 07:36:43 <andythenorth> it will be 1 tile on the map 07:38:43 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-007-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:46:14 <Alberth> any year limitation for the windmill? 07:55:17 <andythenorth> there will be 07:55:18 <Ruudjah> what does it produce? energy, which can be loaded in battery equipped wagons, and discharged at drop stations? 07:55:18 <andythenorth> not yet 07:55:28 <andythenorth> Ruudjah: food :P 07:55:41 <Alberth> batteries only exist as cargo in toyland 07:56:11 <Ruudjah> wagons with batteries would have same freight factor empty & full :P 07:58:16 <Alberth> I don't see any windmill yet 07:59:50 <andythenorth> Alberth: doesn't appear on every map 08:00:22 <andythenorth> if you restrict minimap to 'grain mill' only, you might find one near a town 08:00:37 <andythenorth> it's pink on the minimap 08:00:41 <andythenorth> single tile 08:08:30 <Alberth> ah found it. at 1024x1024 hilly, high towns, and high industries, 3 of 35 grain mills are wind mills 08:09:19 *** ar3k [~ident@ecl69.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 08:09:30 <Alberth> you are so lucky the wind is coming from one direction only :p 08:09:55 <Alberth> at least, at first sight it does not look like you can turn the mill towards the wind :) 08:10:23 <__ln__> can one fight windmills? 08:11:09 <Alberth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windmill <-- they are usually more round 08:11:40 <Alberth> __ln__: OpenTTD does not do war 08:12:42 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-88-114.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 08:12:55 <Alberth> http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1266329 <-- and 'squarish' mills rotate at a lower point 08:13:54 <Alberth> __ln__: you can remove them with the magic bulldozer :p 08:14:19 <__ln__> magic bulldozer is not quite the same as a knight and his horse 08:14:42 <andythenorth> Alberth: yes it's a square one 08:14:52 <andythenorth> that's the way it came to me ;) 08:15:02 <andythenorth> via zephyris and danmack 08:15:11 <andythenorth> I'm not sure how it rotates 08:15:28 <andythenorth> but if I look too deeply into that I have to repaint in depth... 08:16:29 <Alberth> it's possibly just me, I grew up with mills around me :) 08:16:44 *** ar3kaw [~ident@eby78.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:18:36 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC22BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:28:20 <andythenorth> drawing a petrol pump is tricky 08:39:50 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 08:49:36 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host152-235-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 08:50:17 <Wolf01> 'morning 08:57:11 <yorick> can anyone reproduce a server crash when you kick yourself using rcon? 08:57:13 <yorick> (1.1.0) 08:59:36 <Yexo> yes 09:01:21 <yorick> I remember that being fixed last year. someone un-fixed it? 09:04:10 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:05:11 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 09:06:29 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:11:01 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:11:45 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:17:23 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff092.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:17:48 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:17:58 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:28:27 <andythenorth> BROS sucks in another victim :P 09:32:07 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B104062.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:33:11 *** ZirconiumX [521f58c1@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 09:33:22 <ZirconiumX> Hello all 09:33:56 <ZirconiumX> Yexo, Is there a way for an AI to find out how much CPU it is using? 09:35:35 <yorick> no 09:36:12 <ZirconiumX> Evidently he is away 09:36:13 <Zuu> You can count how many ticks an operation/algorithm takes. 09:36:27 <Zuu> Mind that an AI by default have 10 000 op codes per tick. 09:36:33 <ZirconiumX> thanks Zuu 09:37:09 <Yexo> ZirconiumX: no 09:37:19 <ZirconiumX> darn 09:37:27 <ZirconiumX> ermmm 09:37:45 <ZirconiumX> this is going to be fun 09:38:00 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B107B2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:38:03 <Yexo> also number of opcodes != amount of cpu usage 09:38:04 <ZirconiumX> http://mibpaste.com/XIGmt2 09:38:31 *** ZirconiumX [521f58c1@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:39:14 *** ZirconiumX [521f58c1@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 09:39:35 <ZirconiumX> sorry - Firefox quit unexpectedly 09:39:45 <Yexo> I'm not known with D*, but the default A* library already has that functionality 09:40:34 <ZirconiumX> Wouldn't it be a 'safety' to poll how much CPU it's using and 'die' if it uses too much? 09:40:49 <ZirconiumX> w.r.t an AI 09:40:51 <Yexo> that's very hard to do 09:41:05 <Yexo> the opcodes are a relatively simple way to do approximately that 09:41:19 <ZirconiumX> ah - ok 09:41:28 <ZirconiumX> so 09:42:03 <ZirconiumX> approx calculations = [number of ticks] x [number of opcodes / tick] 09:42:12 <ZirconiumX> *approx* 09:42:32 <ZirconiumX> @logs 09:42:32 <DorpsGek> ZirconiumX: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 09:42:33 <Yexo> for a very broad definition of "calculation", yes 09:42:58 <Zuu> Yexo: yes ticks/op codes aren't exactly CPU usage, but the closest I think ZirconiumX get to what he is looking for. 09:43:07 <Yexo> agreed 09:43:23 <ZirconiumX> Hmm 09:43:36 <ZirconiumX> thank you 09:43:45 <ZirconiumX> I'll scribble that down 09:44:36 <Yexo> a lot of built in math functions (like sqrt, sin, cos, log, pow, exp) for example take 100 opcodes 09:45:35 <ZirconiumX> Though it'll be a *bad* idea - I might set maxSteps to [number of ticks] x [number of opcodes / tick] / 16 09:46:00 <ZirconiumX> yes - it would be a bad idea 09:46:08 <Yexo> a pathfinder will take way more than 16 opcodes per step 09:46:14 * andythenorth grumbles more about petrol station 09:46:24 <Yexo> my guess would be something between 100 and 1000 09:46:48 <ZirconiumX> I'll set it to a low setting - /10,000? 09:47:01 <ZirconiumX> the thing is though 09:47:55 <ZirconiumX> no path makes it cycle though quicker - pushing up maxsteps 09:48:10 <ZirconiumX> the tortoise and runner problem 09:48:15 <Yexo> set maxSteps to a tenth of what you want it to be, measure how many ticks that first tenth of the computation took and keep doing that until you go over your allotted amount of ticks 09:48:46 <ZirconiumX> the guy who wrote it set it to 80,000 09:49:13 <Yexo> what number you should use it completely dependend on how long each step takes and how many nodes there are in total 09:49:38 * welshdragon leaves http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=54023 in the channel and runs 09:49:38 <ZirconiumX> which is fine for a stand alone application - but too high for an application running alongside another 09:49:38 <Yexo> that depends on how you encode a node (one tile or tile + direction) 09:50:57 <ZirconiumX> I've been thinking about A* 09:51:12 <ZirconiumX> If you had 09:51:28 <ZirconiumX> node blank node blank node blank etc. 09:51:40 <ZirconiumX> blank blank blank blank etc. 09:51:47 *** LordAro [~kvirc@88-110-130-218.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 09:51:48 <ZirconiumX> node blank node blank etc. 09:51:54 <ZirconiumX> Mr ARo! 09:52:12 <LordAro> good morning 09:52:14 <ZirconiumX> wouldn't that speed up A* 09:52:19 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:52:22 <Yexo> what is "node" and what is "blank"? Why would that speed up A*? 09:52:23 <ZirconiumX> as it has less calculations 09:52:37 <ZirconiumX> node = a node 09:52:45 <ZirconiumX> blank = no node 09:52:57 <Yexo> so what does "node blank node blank node blank" mean? 09:53:24 <ZirconiumX> node there, no node there, node there, no node there 09:53:53 <Yexo> do you know that any pathfinder finds a route over connections between nodes? 09:54:01 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 09:54:13 <ZirconiumX> no 09:54:16 <Yexo> sure, if you mark half the tiles on the map as "can't go there" you speed up A* 09:54:24 <Yexo> however you also disable a lot of potential paths 09:54:39 <Yexo> have you ever written a pathfinder at all? 09:54:49 <ZirconiumX> no 09:54:58 <ZirconiumX> I'm an idiot - I know 09:55:00 <Yexo> start with that before trying to optimize something you don't fully understand 09:55:19 <Yexo> you're not an idiot, you're just going too fast 09:55:48 * ZirconiumX is embarrassed - my employer is watching 09:56:06 <ZirconiumX> not work as such 09:56:19 * LordAro lols 09:56:34 <ZirconiumX> it's you I'm talking about 09:57:26 <ZirconiumX> I'm in charge of a subject I *don't know about* in a language I *don't know about - ish* 09:57:28 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.9.232.165] has joined #openttd 09:57:55 <ZirconiumX> I wonder 09:58:37 * ZirconiumX might know how to learn squirrel - would go against morals though 09:59:03 <ZirconiumX> I've always wanted to code a chess engine - I have the squirrel compiler 09:59:59 <ZirconiumX> that may make me more familiar - imagine an openttd chess engine 10:00:05 * ZirconiumX is going off on one 10:00:25 <Yexo> a decent chess engine is way harder than a decent pathfinder 10:00:53 <ZirconiumX> who said that it had to be 'decent' 10:01:31 <Alberth> if that also holds for a pathfinder, the problem is way simpler 10:01:55 <ZirconiumX> It'd get me used to creating tracks etc. 10:02:04 <Alberth> just lay track in a random direction 10:02:16 <LordAro> anything i can do about this: http://pastebin.com/nb4NYBrZ ? 10:02:43 <ZirconiumX> hah 10:02:45 <Yexo> you can try submitting that bug report they ask you about 10:02:46 <ZirconiumX> maybe 10:02:57 <LordAro> Yexo: to gnu? 10:03:17 <Yexo> to wherever you downloaded msys from 10:03:28 <Yexo> or you mingw gcc version 10:03:32 <ZirconiumX> I'll see what happens when I feed Xcode this - or whatever 10:03:55 <Yexo> depending on what version of gcc you have I'd say it's very unlikely to get fixed though 10:04:11 <LordAro> --version says 4.5.0 10:04:17 <ZirconiumX> what version of GCC do you have 10:04:23 <ZirconiumX> hmm 10:04:46 <LordAro> much lag you have, mister ZirconiumX ;) 10:05:18 <ZirconiumX> I'd typed that just before you said 10:05:56 <ZirconiumX> I'd try - but GCC is broken 10:06:43 <ZirconiumX> whenever I compile openttd source make complains 10:06:53 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:07:11 <ZirconiumX> It appears to be a broken ISO C++ 10:15:00 *** dpkendal [~david@5addc44e.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 10:15:57 <LordAro> hmm, same problem with 4.5.2... :( 10:18:25 <Rubidium> LordAro: do you have enough free memory? If so, try if freeing some memory helps. Do you run compilations in parallel (make -jN, N > 1)? If so, try if not running im parallel (make -j1) helps. 10:19:23 <Rubidium> the CF sometimes seems to trigger that (or a similar) crash, but most of the times it was transient and thusly I'd guess related to the amount free memory (knowing how the CF is configured) 10:20:19 <ZirconiumX> svn is complaining 10:21:06 <ZirconiumX> http://mibpaste.com/vrC3md 10:22:01 <LordAro> you appear to have put 2 commands together 10:22:31 <ZirconiumX> darn mibpaste 10:22:43 <LordAro> use pastebin 10:22:52 <LordAro> or at least not mibpaste 10:23:21 <ZirconiumX> http://pastebin.com/csDbaAzf 10:23:39 <Yexo> try /trunk instead of /trunksvn 10:24:00 <LordAro> Rubidium/whoever: updating my g++ seems to have worked, or, it hasn't finished compiling yet, but it's got past where it was failing 10:24:05 <Yexo> the error message if pretty clear 10:24:36 <ZirconiumX> sigh 10:25:34 <Yexo> ZirconiumX: are you OTTDmaster on the devzone? 10:25:42 <ZirconiumX> yes 10:25:53 <Yexo> do you still want that D* project there? 10:25:58 <ZirconiumX> yes 10:26:00 <Yexo> ok 10:26:05 <ZirconiumX> ty 10:26:38 <ZirconiumX> whats it called? 10:26:43 <ZirconiumX> ai-dstar? 10:28:21 <Yexo> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ailib-dstar 10:28:46 <ZirconiumX> thanks 10:30:42 *** Markavian [~Markavian@32.170.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:30:42 <LordAro> possible report: when starting openttd (win32-mingw) without a graphics set, with './openttd -d5', it generates crash files 10:41:47 <andythenorth> Improved petrol pump: 10:41:47 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607&p=940859#p940859 10:41:50 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ^ 10:42:08 <andythenorth> it's been a bit painful, I'm not 100% on the result 10:42:20 <andythenorth> btw, a price sign doesn't seem to work 10:42:25 <andythenorth> looks odd 10:43:31 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, definitely an improvement over the previous one, though ;) 10:43:49 *** ar3k [~ident@ecl69.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:44:09 *** ar3k [~ident@ecl69.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 10:44:10 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 10:45:11 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 10:47:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the stripe on the roof is company coloured? 10:47:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22309 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp): -Fix: Make road vehicles, ships and aircraft skip orders if they are leaving a depot and heading to the same one again; just like trains since r16322. 10:49:35 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-88-114.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:49:41 *** Markavian [~Markavian@32.170.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:52:26 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:53:04 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: yes 10:53:24 <andythenorth> it was thicker earlier today, but it looked out of proportion to houses 10:55:00 <andythenorth> I've abandoned ideas of trying to join it to road pieces, that's never going to work well 10:56:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that's probably right 11:12:57 *** Markavian [~Markavian@32.170.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:19:24 *** hoax__ [U2FsdGVkX1@dhcp-077-249-151-209.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 11:20:24 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has left #openttd [] 11:26:05 *** dpkendal [~david@5addc44e.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: dpkendal] 11:26:23 *** dpkendal [~david@5addc44e.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 11:27:38 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:29:43 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:29:59 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 11:36:12 *** Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-38-82.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:36:47 *** Markavian [~Markavian@32.170.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:39:32 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:44:50 *** Ruudjah [~opera@86.93.109.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:47:04 *** Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-38-82.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:48:03 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c02b:5253:112b:bf4e] has joined #openttd 11:48:06 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 11:48:26 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 11:49:21 <LordAro> anyone know why ./openttd -d5 isn't working - just crashes, without any crash files 11:49:26 <LordAro> ./openttd works fine 11:52:35 <Ammler> and "./" does tell us, which version you use? 11:53:23 <Ammler> works here with 1.1.0 11:53:50 <Ammler> LordAro: also no error on the console? 11:54:05 <LordAro> well, my slightly modified trunk 11:54:08 <LordAro> and no 11:54:48 <Ammler> then you should as first try to reproduce with "clean" trunk 11:54:49 <ZirconiumX> what do you mean by 'slightly modified'? 11:56:13 <LordAro> Ammler: ok, whats the way to revert patched files? 11:57:36 <LordAro> ZirconiumX: this patch: http://pastebin.com/Rvs73Ejq 11:57:49 *** Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-103-51.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:58:22 <LordAro> ^ mr john shepard failed to hide himself i think :) 11:58:23 <Ammler> LordAro: use mercurial mq 11:58:54 <Ammler> if you insist on svn, you should use multiple checkouts 11:59:04 <LordAro> maybe... 11:59:42 <Ammler> a clean trunk and one for your patches 11:59:55 <LordAro> stuff it, i'm getting hg now 12:00:53 <Ammler> oh, you got admin rights on the pc now? 12:01:39 <ZirconiumX> stay with svn 12:01:47 <ZirconiumX> trust me 12:01:52 <LordAro> Ammler: no, different pc, different place 12:01:53 <ZirconiumX> hg is slower 12:02:04 <ZirconiumX> well not as such 12:02:16 <LordAro> and besides, i had hg anyway, albeit on a portable command prompt 12:02:19 <ZirconiumX> it just looks at *every* commit first 12:02:21 <Ammler> ZirconiumX: oh, you develop so fast? 12:02:40 <ZirconiumX> compiling takes forever 12:03:03 <Ammler> yes, the uses vcs matters quite much for compiling 12:03:14 <Ammler> used* 12:03:19 *** enr1x_ [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 12:03:26 <LordAro> ammler: hg can import svn patches can't it? 12:03:31 <ZirconiumX> haven't tried git 12:03:32 *** enr1x_ [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [] 12:03:33 <ZirconiumX> yes 12:04:06 <ZirconiumX> you can patch hg with svn 12:04:11 <Ammler> LordAro: as said, I would use MQ, dunno if that is too advanced :-) 12:04:12 <ZirconiumX> (code) 12:04:39 <LordAro> Ammler: for now, yes. 12:04:44 <Ammler> then you can enable/disable & combine patches quite easy 12:04:58 <LordAro> i'll look into it again 12:05:29 <Ammler> start with "hg help mq" 12:06:07 <Ammler> most important are qnew, qpush and qpop, the rest you learn when needed :-) 12:07:30 *** JOHN-SHEPARD_ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-172-137.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 12:10:17 <Ammler> ZirconiumX: just in case, you didn't notice the irony, the used vcs does not matter for compiling 12:10:47 <ZirconiumX> no 12:11:20 <Ammler> except maybe findversion.sh 12:11:56 <Alberth> ZirconiumX: svn is useless as version control system unless you have commit access 12:12:23 <Alberth> with hg you can actually manage your patches 12:12:35 *** Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-103-51.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:13:22 <Alberth> LordAro: how is the readme patch going? 12:13:26 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 12:13:46 <LordAro> http://pastebin.com/Rvs73Ejq 12:14:25 <Ammler> wow 12:16:23 <Alberth> so you copy/pasted the newgrf parameter window? 12:16:36 <LordAro> yes :) i will change it at some point 12:16:42 <LordAro> honest... 12:17:04 <Alberth> no problem, you have to start somewhere 12:17:43 <Alberth> in this way you have something that works, which may be easier than building something from scratch 12:18:05 <LordAro> my thoughts exactly 12:18:14 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:48 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:27:48 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 12:37:51 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:13 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 12:42:27 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:51:41 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0ccbb4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:51:46 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED662EB.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:37 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED662EB.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 13:20:11 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 13:28:06 *** ZirconiumX [521f58c1@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 13:29:00 *** ZirconiumX [521f58c1@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 13:31:39 *** ZirconiumX [521f58c1@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [] 13:36:19 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... building materials: rather in open, closed or tank wagon? 13:41:07 <Eddi|zuHause> grfcodec doesn't happen to have a bitmask-escape? 13:44:30 <Rubidium> no(t yet) 13:46:09 <Rubidium> what classes of building materials? 13:47:12 <Eddi|zuHause> seems the glass works and the cement mill produce building materials 13:47:16 <Rubidium> those concrete blocks and concrete floor panels should go on an open wagon, concrete mix (sand + gravel + cement) in tank wagons, ... 13:47:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i should suggest the saw mill to do so, as well... 13:47:55 <Rubidium> I've only seen closed pilkington trucks 13:48:09 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, no, there's also a processor for wood->wdpr->bdmt 13:48:46 <Rubidium> (Pilkington = glass) 13:49:50 <Eddi|zuHause> so there seems to be glass, cement and wood as possible candidates for building materials... don't see a metal based one (yet) 13:50:50 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d083b68.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:51:04 <Eddi|zuHause> glass, wood, cement and bricks, no metal... 13:55:44 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0ccbb4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:56:02 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 14:06:32 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 14:22:07 *** Chris_Booth_ [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:22:16 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:24:34 *** JOHN-SHEPARD_ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-172-137.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:27:35 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:27:35 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 14:31:50 *** Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-172-137.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:33:39 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-161-134.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd 14:39:55 *** Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-172-137.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:43:11 *** ZirconiumX [521f58c1@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:46:44 *** Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-175-56.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:50:18 *** Ruudjah [~opera@86.93.109.194] has joined #openttd 14:50:42 <ZirconiumX> @logs 14:50:42 <DorpsGek> ZirconiumX: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 14:53:33 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0ccbb4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:54:45 <Alberth> ZirconiumX: you are aware of the 'bookmarks' feature of your browser? 14:55:23 <ZirconiumX> and the logs are not an important thing to ad 14:56:30 <Yexo> they seem important enough for you to visit them regularly 14:56:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22310 /trunk/src/widgets/ (dropdown.cpp dropdown_type.h): -Codechange: Derive DropDownListCharStringItem from DropDownListStringItem. 14:57:17 <ZirconiumX> I'm revisiting the comments about D* 14:59:20 <Alberth> openttd is not completely known ? 15:00:00 * ZirconiumX wonders why frosch is so good at alliteration 15:00:25 <Eddi|zuHause> he didn't write "drom" 15:00:57 <ZirconiumX> and? 15:01:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22311 /trunk/src/widgets/ (dropdown.cpp dropdown_type.h): -Add: DropDownListStringItem::NatSortFunc() which can be used as comparator function in DropDownList::sort(). 15:01:29 <ZirconiumX> not all alliterations use the same letter all the time - just most 15:03:11 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-146-068.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:03:26 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-146-068.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:03:51 <Eddi|zuHause> ZirconiumX: i'm questioning your insinuation that he actually wanted to write an alliteration 15:04:44 <frosch123> ZirconiumX: because i am qualified in Latin 15:05:35 <ZirconiumX> Aaaargh! HG is being a 15:05:51 <ZirconiumX> damned nuisance 15:07:13 * Alberth is very happy with HG 15:07:54 *** sigue [contempt@stole.ur.cc-number.info] has joined #openttd 15:07:57 <ZirconiumX> abort: /Users/ralphbrades/DStar/.hgignore: invalid pattern (relre): *.tar 15:08:05 <ZirconiumX> abort: /Users/ralphbrades/DStar/.hgignore: invalid pattern (relre): **.tar 15:08:32 <ZirconiumX> Lord Aro could do it with AroAI 15:08:39 <Alberth> \*\.tar$ 15:09:55 <ZirconiumX> ty 15:12:47 <Alberth> oh, the \* is wrong, unless you want to match the files ending with "*.tar" literally 15:12:55 <Alberth> you need \.tar$ 15:14:23 <Ammler> ZirconiumX: maybe you better use glob, as you seem not able to manage regex and then blame hg ;-) 15:14:43 <Alberth> Ammler: good point 15:15:13 <ZirconiumX> lol 15:15:20 <ZirconiumX> I misspelled syntax 15:17:38 <ZirconiumX> hah 15:17:47 <ZirconiumX> ? .hgignore 15:18:20 <Alberth> hg add .hgignore ; hg commit :) 15:19:04 <Alberth> or add \.hgignore in the file as well :) 15:19:13 <Ammler> lol 15:19:51 <Alberth> which has the benefit that everybody can set his own ignored files, instead of having to agree on the set between all developers 15:19:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the latter has the problem you need to move it to all other checkouts manually ;) 15:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be a .hgignore.local for that ;) 15:20:19 <Ammler> Alberth: the purpose of the .hgingore is excatly that 15:20:33 <Ammler> you can still have your own rules in your local hgingore 15:20:51 <ZirconiumX> ingore?!? 15:20:54 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: there is 15:21:05 <ZirconiumX> Sounds like botched surgury 15:21:06 <Alberth> Ammler: oh, it has a section for each user or so? 15:21:17 *** hoax__ [U2FsdGVkX1@dhcp-077-249-151-209.chello.nl] has left #openttd [] 15:21:46 <Alberth> oh, there are 2 such files :) nice 15:21:47 <Ammler> Alberth: you really aren't aware of possiblity to setup local hgignore? 15:22:05 <Alberth> nope, I don't share my hg repos 15:22:10 <Ammler> :-P 15:22:59 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-172-115.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 15:23:07 <ZirconiumX> gah 15:23:14 <ZirconiumX> I've commited 15:23:38 <ZirconiumX> and it doesn't show up 15:23:53 <Ammler> ui.hgignore should tell you more 15:23:55 <Yexo> do hg push 15:24:15 <Yexo> and make sure next time to describe the problem better, like where you expected it to show up 15:24:27 <Ammler> ZirconiumX: hg is like client and server in one, push/pull to sync with other hosts 15:25:27 <ZirconiumX> hurrah 15:25:54 <Ammler> also if you work with others on same repo, it is helpful to pull right before commit again 15:27:26 <Ammler> ZirconiumX: I would not add a rev number to the commit message 15:27:55 <Ammler> not like git, hg has its local numbers, that could confuse 15:28:31 <ZirconiumX> the thing is though 15:29:01 <ZirconiumX> it's easy to search rn 15:29:07 <Ammler> either work with rev number of the main repo (devzone in that case) or use something else 15:29:14 <ZirconiumX> as it looks in the description 15:29:38 <Ammler> hg log does not show you a number? 15:29:51 <Ammler> your commit is btw. rev 0, not 1 :-) 15:30:20 <ZirconiumX> I know - I saw 15:30:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22312 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: 15:30:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Add GameOptionsWindow::BuildDropDownList() for construction of all dropdown lists in the GameOptionsWindow. 15:30:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Change: Sort the items in the currency dropdown; separate the "Custom" item with a horizontal line from the rest. 15:30:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Change: Separate default and NewGRF-supplied townnames with a horizontal line and only sort them within these groups. 15:30:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: Resize all dropdown lists in the GameOptionsWindow, so no text is truncated. 15:30:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22313 /trunk/src/strings_func.h: -Cleanup (r22312): Remove some dead code. 15:30:44 <Ammler> well, up to you, you have been warned :-P 15:31:23 <Ammler> openttd adds svn rev because as they started hg converts, nobody knew hg 15:32:57 <Ammler> (and for openttd, svn is still "master") 15:37:38 <Ammler> frosch123: does this mean, i can trash my swisstowns grf? 15:39:06 <Ruudjah> openttd switched to hg? 15:39:48 <Yexo> no, but there have been hg copies of the svn repo for a very long time: http://hg.openttd.org/ 15:40:36 <Yexo> Ammler: what did swisstowns.grf do? 15:40:40 <Ruudjah> ah, ok 15:40:52 <Ammler> Yexo: mainly fix openttd swisstowns 15:41:13 <Ammler> and extend 15:41:21 <peter1138> git ftw! 15:41:25 <Yexo> r22312 made no changes to the actual town name generators 15:41:59 <Ammler> well, it sounds like after that, my grf wont replace the swiss menu entry anymore 15:42:13 <Yexo> did it ever do that? 15:42:33 <Ammler> of course :-) 15:42:50 <Ammler> if you had same name, that was the whole idea behind 15:43:14 <Ammler> that was the reason, I added the translations to my grf 15:43:39 <Yexo> swiss is no twice in the list 15:43:44 <Ammler> no 15:43:56 <Ammler> well, maybe it will be now, which makes it useless 15:44:08 <Yexo> "swiss" the openttd version), "swiss" (newgrf version) and "swiss (extreme)" (also newgrf version) 15:44:57 <Ammler> Yexo: that was pre r22312 already? 15:45:03 <Yexo> no 15:45:11 <Yexo> that is since r22312 15:45:29 <Yexo> in r22308 (a build I just had handy) there are only 2 "swiss" and "swiss (extreme)" 15:45:38 <Yexo> it's not easy to tell whether that's the openttd version or newgrf version 15:45:42 <Ammler> ah, it should have beend "Swiss" for the fix and "Swiss (extreme)" for the extend 15:46:19 <Ammler> but I merged those with the nml conversion 15:46:59 <Ammler> why should I add the newgrf but then still use the openttd list? 15:47:55 <Yexo> because one newgrf could add multiple town names lists, and you can add multiple town names grfs 15:48:01 <Ammler> you could drop the whole list if town name newgrf is added, imo :-) 15:48:21 <Ammler> (the whole openttd names*) 15:48:53 <Yexo> Ammler: what if someone decides to bundle town names with vehicles? You wouldn't be able to use the vehicles without the town names part 15:48:58 <Yexo> think canset or similar 15:49:29 <Ammler> well, then keep it pre r22313 style 15:49:39 <Ammler> I see no sense to split those, why do you want that? 15:51:37 <Ammler> hopefully you have the newgrf entries at least on top :-) 15:51:47 <Yexo> of course not ;) 15:53:35 <frosch123> [17:41] <Ammler> well, it sounds like after that, my grf wont replace the swiss menu entry anymore <- i don't see how that could have worked before :o 15:53:45 <Yexo> neither do I, but it did work 15:53:54 <Ammler> frosch123: ask glx 15:54:34 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0ccbb4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:55:03 <Ammler> I just checked, the fix was not serious, just added 2 towns and "my" Amden :-) 15:56:26 <Ammler> frosch123: it simply sorted the list and dropped double entries somehow 15:56:59 <Ammler> also it was per language, I had to translate it for every openttd language to drop the openttd entry 15:57:56 <Ammler> but the idea was that you were able to "overrule" openttd town names 15:58:06 <Yexo> ah, the old code used a std::map 15:58:20 <frosch123> well, it must have assigned the same string id somehow 15:58:21 <Yexo> Ammler: was that ever a feature or just a never-fixed bug? 15:58:31 <Ammler> of course, a feature 15:58:35 <Ammler> well, ask glx 15:58:42 <Yexo> frosch123: no, StringIDCompare calls StringIDSorter which does strcmp 15:58:44 <frosch123> Yexo: openttd.cfg stores the name as text 15:58:49 <Yexo> after GetString() 15:59:00 <Yexo> so it actually did compare the actual strings, not the ids 15:59:23 <frosch123> [17:58] <frosch123> Yexo: openttd.cfg stores the name as text <- actually wrong 15:59:30 *** ZirconiumX [521f58c1@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 15:59:37 <Ammler> I thought I fixed typos and such with my grf too, but that isn't the case, so it is partially false alarm or me ;-) 15:59:46 <Ammler> of* 16:00:03 <Yexo> I still think overriding the default town name generators with a newgrf one is a bug 16:00:09 <glx> openttd.cfg stores the ID using the enum if possible 16:00:13 <frosch123> well, now you can choose between the original swiss towns and the newgrf swiss towns :) 16:00:37 <Ammler> Yexo: you can disable efault vehicle, why shouldn't you be able to replace default town list? 16:00:44 <frosch123> you can also easily tell which are original, and which from newgrf 16:00:53 <frosch123> imo it is more transparent now 16:01:01 <Yexo> because there is no reason to do so? you won't see the default town names in-game if you select the newgrf town names 16:01:01 <Ammler> frosch123: again, why should I add the swiss towns grf and then chose the openttd list? 16:01:13 <Yexo> <Yexo> Ammler: what if someone decides to bundle town names with vehicles? You wouldn't be able to use the vehicles without the town names part 16:01:37 <frosch123> Ammler: then you would remove all original town names when newgrf ones are present 16:01:45 <Ammler> Yexo: that was the answer to my "drop all openttd lists" 16:01:55 <Yexo> besides that the previous way of overriding (by comparing the actual strings) was broken 16:02:09 <Ammler> it worked here 16:02:12 <Yexo> if overriding was possible it should be done on a per-id basis, not by comparing the names 16:02:25 <Yexo> Ammler: only until a new translation was added to openttd 16:02:45 <Ammler> yell, then you have both entries 16:02:49 <Ammler> like now 16:02:56 <Ammler> so nothing is lost :-) 16:03:23 <Yexo> and now it's consistent 16:03:28 <Ammler> well, split is fine, but do at least change the sorting and the newgrfs on top 16:03:50 <Ammler> so the "unsupported" lists are shown as less priorized 16:04:05 <Yexo> I have no objection to that but I'll leave it to frosch123 if he wants to do it 16:04:19 <frosch123> newgrf ones on top makes sense 16:05:38 <Ammler> or you need to accept patched according to town lists ;-) 16:05:44 <Ammler> patches* 16:06:16 *** Maarten_ [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 16:06:26 <Yexo> those break old savegames, so unless it are fixes for typos no 16:07:22 <Ammler> :-o 16:08:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22314 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Change: Put NewGRF supplied townnames at the top of the dropdown list. 16:08:39 <frosch123> gah, forgot the comment :s 16:10:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22315 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix (r22314): Update comment as well. 16:10:31 * Ammler wonders, if that needs adding a comment to the menu entry so it is obvious 16:12:35 <Eddi|zuHause> could someone review these refit masks for me? :) http://pastebin.com/rF1w2c3G 16:12:53 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 16:13:25 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:15:34 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: the bits depend on the cargo translation table you use 16:16:51 <frosch123> Yexo: unfortunately eddi overrides the refitmask of vehicles defined in another grf. and they use the translation table of the other grf in that case. and that other grf has no translation table 16:17:06 <frosch123> maybe we should fix that :p 16:17:09 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:17:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. i need to use the raw cargo bits: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/sprites/nfo/ids.pnfo#L146 16:17:17 <frosch123> but does not sound easy 16:17:37 <Yexo> ah, ok 16:17:55 <Yexo> fixing that will lead to problems with existing adapter sets 16:18:43 <frosch123> are you sure? 16:19:03 <Yexo> no 16:19:28 <frosch123> you could say something: first try the original translation table, but allow defining an own one 16:19:48 <frosch123> anyway, afaik it only affects the refitmask property 16:20:03 <frosch123> action123 use the translation table from the grf defining the action3 anyway 16:20:06 <Yexo> so (A) CTT of original grf, (B) CTT of overriding grf, (C) cargo bit instead of just (A) and (C) 16:20:56 <frosch123> hmm, i guess current code would even apply the ctt of overriding grf to the original grf's refitmask, if it defines an action3 16:21:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it should do that... 16:22:31 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:22:47 <Eddi|zuHause> but these dbxl-addendums can't use an action 3, because it can't access the action 2 chain of the original grf 16:23:03 <Yexo> at that point it's impossible to determine which grf set the refitmask 16:26:22 <frosch123> maybe we could just add a refitmask_grfid to GRFTempEngineData 16:32:38 <LordAro> in 'struct name : public Window' what does the ': public Window' mean? or at least, what should i search for? 16:32:59 <Yexo> inheritance 16:33:16 <Yexo> it means "name" is a subclass of "Window" 16:33:55 <LordAro> ty 16:34:30 <LordAro> on a completely unrelated note, what does the Stop() function in NoAI do? and when is it called, etc? 16:35:13 <Yexo> nothing and never 16:35:23 <LordAro> so why is it required? 16:35:51 <Yexo> it's not 16:36:04 <LordAro> thought it was :) 16:36:19 <Yexo> a few years ago it was 16:36:27 <Yexo> but that was changed even before the merge to trunk 16:37:31 <LordAro> so why does it still exist? or is it just being 'defined' by developer, not the API? 16:37:43 <Yexo> who days it still exists? 16:38:00 <Yexo> there is no trace of it in the openttd code 16:38:04 <Yexo> at least none that I can find 16:38:29 <LordAro> http://wiki.openttd.org/AI:TestAI :) - i shall remove it, yes? 16:39:15 <Yexo> sure 16:40:40 <LordAro> done :) 16:40:54 <LordAro> out of interest, what was it for? 16:41:12 <Yexo> to make an AI stop running of course 16:41:28 <Yexo> openttd did not stop AIs automatically at that time 16:41:37 <Yexo> it just called Stop() and the AI had to make sure it would stop 16:41:59 <LordAro> by a divide by 0 or something? 16:42:10 <Yexo> no, by setting a flag they would check in their mainloop 16:42:22 <LordAro> i see 16:42:30 <LordAro> thanks for the info :) 16:42:56 * LordAro makes a note to delete Stop() from AroAI 16:44:25 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/refitmask_grf.diff <- Eddi|zuHause: interested in testing that? 16:46:14 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:59 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: what would i look for when testing? 16:51:17 <frosch123> whether you can use a cargo translation table 16:52:22 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:52:46 <Eddi|zuHause> for reference: the cargos with my modifications above, without out this patch: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Werrakirchen%20Transport,%206th%20Dec%201935.png 16:53:54 <Yexo> why alcohol/milk also in the goods van? 16:54:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: because MB insists on milk being transported in cans. and the goods van has a "beer" refit 16:54:51 <Yexo> ok 16:57:35 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has joined #openttd 16:57:45 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: which version of FIRS did you test? 16:58:02 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: something a few weeks ago 16:58:37 <andythenorth> I changed junk yard production on 19th March to reduce it. 16:58:46 <andythenorth> could reduce it further, just wondering which version you had... 16:59:03 <Eddi|zuHause> date: Sun Mar 27 18:52:47 2011 +0100 16:59:31 <andythenorth> ok you have the newer 16:59:36 <andythenorth> which means I might reduce it further 16:59:43 <andythenorth> I have the same conclusion as you 17:00:35 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I'm surprised you were short of farms. 17:00:37 <Eddi|zuHause> you really only need a few tons per month, to boost metal production 17:00:43 <andythenorth> I don't tune for 'low industry' 17:00:55 <andythenorth> but on 'normal' there are usually plenty of farms 17:01:06 <andythenorth> maybe the clustering effect doesn't scale well with 'low' 17:01:11 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: not really "short", i.e. there were some, but the ratio doesn't seem right 17:01:30 <andythenorth> 'low' or 'very low'? 17:01:37 <Eddi|zuHause> low 17:01:37 <andythenorth> I'm not really going to do anything about 'very low' 17:01:49 <andythenorth> do you remember the terrain type? 17:01:54 <andythenorth> not that it affects farms much... 17:02:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it says "mountaneous", but with the height level patch, it's fairly flat terrain 17:03:21 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: on 'low' the clustering is hugely ineffective for farms 17:03:32 *** JOHN-SHEPARD_ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-111-179.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 17:03:40 <andythenorth> it works to some extent, but not in every case 17:03:47 <andythenorth> and only produces clusters of 2-3 farms together 17:03:50 <andythenorth> :( 17:04:52 <Eddi|zuHause> what's also a little bit disturbing me is that the secondary industries are in the middle of nowhere, they should cluster around larger towns (>2000 inhabitants, with some chance of outside) 17:05:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but that might not fit everybody's playing style 17:05:33 <andythenorth> too co-ercive 17:05:43 <andythenorth> if it bothers you, patch FIRS, or set up a scenario ;) 17:05:46 <andythenorth> or patch ottd 17:06:15 <andythenorth> ;) 17:06:31 <andythenorth> on 'normal industry' farms cluster in groups of 2-7, which is better 17:07:40 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ideas for second building materials industry? 17:07:59 *** Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-175-56.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:08:55 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: not sure about that... 17:09:05 <andythenorth> me neither ;) 17:15:35 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: with patch applied: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Werrakirchen%20Transport,%206th%20Dec%201935_1.png 17:15:57 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: with MAIL and MNSP swapped in CTT: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Werrakirchen%20Transport,%206th%20Dec%201935_1.png 17:16:02 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: with MAIL and MNSP swapped in CTT: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Werrakirchen%20Transport,%206th%20Dec%201935_2.png 17:17:01 <andythenorth> what are we patching? 17:17:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: CTT support for "i modify other GRF"-GRFs 17:17:51 <andythenorth> interestink 17:17:55 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: addon GRFs like dbxl_firs 17:18:11 <andythenorth> the discussion about cargo refittability cb was useful.... 17:18:36 <andythenorth> I don't think the questions were answered though :o 17:18:36 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/cargo_refit_cb 17:19:09 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: so, it works? 17:19:25 <Eddi|zuHause> on first glance, seems to do 17:20:07 <Eddi|zuHause> the unmodified mail van still carries mail 17:21:01 <frosch123> ok, thanks 17:21:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22316 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] When determining refittability use the cargo translation table of the GRF setting the refitmask instead of the GRF defining the action 3. 17:22:22 <andythenorth> how cunning 17:22:37 <andythenorth> so old grfs could be patched for cargo support? 17:22:55 <andythenorth> in a better way than previously... 17:23:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: slightly better: doesn't have to rely on raw cargo bits anymore, but still can't affect graphics 17:23:53 <andythenorth> graphics are overkill anyway 17:23:57 <Eddi|zuHause> (or must include complete graphics) 17:24:53 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i think FIRS has no "Goods" that would fit into a tanker wagon 17:25:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i should remove it 17:25:34 <andythenorth> up to you ;) 17:25:41 <andythenorth> I concur though 17:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> the original DBSet has goods, because it may come from refinery 17:26:49 <andythenorth> sometimes I wish grfcodec would read my psds directly :P 17:27:48 <andythenorth> anyone want some easy Sunday nfo fun? 17:28:21 <andythenorth> I want to locate petrol station next to any road tile 17:28:29 <andythenorth> I have most of cb28 hooked up 17:28:47 <andythenorth> there are two layouts, 1x2 and 2x1 17:29:06 <andythenorth> I might need cb22 instead, haven't figured it out yet 17:29:30 <andythenorth> if it's north tile only, I think cb28 will do 17:29:43 <andythenorth> but I am happy if any tile is adjacent to a full road piece 17:29:56 * andythenorth thinks cb22 in that case 17:30:20 <andythenorth> cb2f /s 17:31:19 * andythenorth is puzzled by this one 17:31:36 <andythenorth> I need to allow construction if *any* tile is adjacent to road 17:31:43 <andythenorth> but I need to run the check for every tile 17:31:47 <andythenorth> not sure how to disallow :o 17:31:55 <andythenorth> I can't use registers at this point 17:31:57 <frosch123> there is only a check for the north tile 17:31:59 <frosch123> iirc 17:32:13 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Callbacks#Custom_shape_check_2F_ 17:32:15 <andythenorth> should do it 17:32:18 <andythenorth> I use it in other place 17:32:19 <andythenorth> s 17:33:05 <frosch123> oh sorry, somehow i thought the discussion was abuot houses :o 17:33:22 <frosch123> do you also have a house set in progress? :p 17:34:44 <andythenorth> not me 17:34:50 <andythenorth> I have avoided that :D 17:35:11 <andythenorth> so I need to allow construction if any tile is adjacent to road 17:35:12 <Eddi|zuHause> haha, there's a feature in swedish houses that displays a christmas tree on the small square in december :p 17:36:16 <Ruudjah> ^^ this stuff made me a TTD addict 17:36:28 <frosch123> andythenorth: you could also define it to be built on top of houses 17:36:34 <andythenorth> true 17:36:37 <frosch123> like the default banks 17:36:43 <andythenorth> that's how it's currently done 17:36:45 <frosch123> usualy houses are next to roads :) 17:36:47 <andythenorth> I want to allow it out of town 17:36:55 <frosch123> oh 17:37:00 <andythenorth> I like the idea of petrol stations and hotels in the middle of the desert ;) 17:37:56 <andythenorth> hmm 17:38:02 <andythenorth> no registers at this point :( 17:38:21 <planetmaker> good evening 17:38:26 <andythenorth> hello planetmaker 17:39:08 <andythenorth> hmm 17:39:25 <andythenorth> I do have the layout number, so I could do checks in specific directions from the N tile 17:39:26 <andythenorth> that will work 17:45:28 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 17:45:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22317 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed) 17:45:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by Yexo 17:45:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_US - 1 changes by Rubidium 17:45:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_ 17:45:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx 17:45:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by Rubidium 17:49:17 <Zuu> I tried a game with OpenGFX+ for the first time. Must say it is really well made. Not too complicated but still provides nice extra graphics etc. 17:50:33 <Zuu> It could maybe have a second generation of wagons halfway between 1950 and monorail for some added fun, but I guess the policy is to not add any extra wagons/engines, only refits, graphics etc. 17:52:37 <Ruudjah> what (OSS) IDE's are good picks to develop OpenTTD on? 17:52:57 <Ruudjah> (C++) 17:55:13 <Ruudjah> previously I used MSVS, but won't use that any more 17:56:11 <planetmaker> Zuu: agreed on 2nd generation of wagons being nice 17:56:48 <planetmaker> it's not so much about policy (they could have very similar properties, or just slightly larger or so), but... about just not yet drawn nor implemented 17:57:24 <Zuu> I guess the second generation should only be slightly better or it would skew the balance (as if there was one ;-) ) 17:57:30 <planetmaker> yep 17:57:52 <Alberth> Ruudjah: there is no universal agreement on such things. Just use one that you like. 17:58:09 * glx likes visual studio 17:58:23 * Alberth likes gvim + a terminal 17:58:43 <Zuu> VS is good but not OSS (which is what Ruudjah asked for) 17:58:58 <Terkhen> Ruudjah: if you are using windows you can only use visual studio or an IDE that uses mingw/msys such as code blocks or qt creator 17:59:20 <Terkhen> I used notepad++ and a msys terminal 17:59:25 <Zuu> Or you get virtual box and a virtual linux machine :-) 17:59:38 <glx> I use notepad++ too 17:59:44 <Alberth> Ruudjah: you definitely want an editor that shows the difference between TAB and SPACE, and shows trailing whitespace 18:00:01 <Ammler> Zuu: then you do rather the opposite 18:00:32 <Ammler> else you are the whole time on the vm ;-) 18:00:39 <Zuu> :-p 18:01:24 <Ruudjah> few months back removed as much proprietary software as possible, switched to ubuntu 18:01:47 <Ruudjah> Have virtualbox+w7+MSVS available, but want to eliminate need for it 18:02:04 <planetmaker> kate works for me 18:02:10 <Terkhen> on linux I use gedit + terminal :) 18:02:27 <frosch123> an "ide" can be very different things 18:02:30 <Ruudjah> for me personally, it's absolutely a must to have an IDE as opposed to an editor 18:02:33 * andythenorth just fights xcode a lot 18:02:37 <andythenorth> but that's no use to the rest of you 18:02:42 <frosch123> some prefer lightweight stuff, some prefer monsters like eclipse 18:02:45 <andythenorth> brrr 18:02:54 <andythenorth> hmm 18:03:00 <Ruudjah> I have experience with Eclipse, now looking into CDT 18:03:03 * frosch123 uses geany (also a lightweight one) 18:03:05 <Ruudjah> (C++ for eclpse) 18:03:10 <Ammler> Ruudjah: a linux console is part of an IDE :-) 18:03:20 <andythenorth> we discussed a way to get count of industry type per town. frosch123 do you remember any conclusion of that? 18:03:36 <Alberth> Ammler: a linux desktop is an ide :) 18:03:42 <Ammler> or so :-) 18:03:47 <Ruudjah> eclipse==monster? 18:03:50 <frosch123> no 18:03:55 <Terkhen> I'll make a note of checking geany, I'm interested on alternatives to gedit :) 18:04:03 <andythenorth> frosch123: me neither 18:04:04 <Ruudjah> I of intergrated is important for me 18:04:06 <frosch123> Ruudjah: "monster" as in "huge" 18:04:23 <Alberth> it has crappy editors imo 18:04:41 <frosch123> "huge" as in "most of its users only know about 10% or so" 18:04:55 <Ammler> Ruudjah: what exactly do you need from IDE? 18:04:55 <Alberth> frosch123: and I am trying to keep it that way :p 18:04:58 <Ammler> debugger? 18:05:12 <Alberth> auto completion hints 18:05:20 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:05:39 <frosch123> [20:04] <Alberth> frosch123: and I am trying to keep it that way :p <- what's the context of that line? 18:05:41 <Ruudjah> 1. intellisense, 2. live debugging, 3. quick navigation through code 18:05:53 <Ruudjah> ^^autocomplete 18:06:00 <Ammler> there is another java ide than exclipse, abit "lighter" 18:06:00 <Alberth> (20:07:36) frosch123: "huge" as in "most of its users only know about 10% or so" <-- that line :) 18:06:22 <Ammler> netbeans 18:06:28 <Ruudjah> for java, eclipse fits quite well 18:06:29 <frosch123> Ruudjah: yes, a lot of "ide"s have those standard functions 18:06:49 <frosch123> but some need 3 minutes to scan the code, and some need 10 seconds 18:06:50 <Alberth> and 3 is not so important, C++ is not Java 18:07:03 <Ruudjah> uh 18:07:27 <Alberth> you normally edit 2 or 3 files at most 18:07:47 <frosch123> Alberth: but you look up stuff in 20 files 18:07:51 <Ruudjah> ah yes, I remember ottd devs try to cram as much code into one file as possible 18:08:02 <Alberth> frosch123: grep :) 18:08:17 <Alberth> Ruudjah: there is structure :) 18:08:57 <Ruudjah> true, but most (all?)projects I dev/devved for do other way around 18:09:07 <Zuu> But *too* many files in the same directory make them take up the whole screen when you <tab> to open in vim. :-) 18:09:38 <Ruudjah> Ill give netbeans a try, does it have c++ support out of the box? 18:10:02 <Ammler> I just said "there is", I don't use it :-) 18:10:13 <frosch123> Alberth: i have no real opinion on that vim stuff. everyone who i have been seen using it, had obviously no idea about it, completely misconfigured it, resulting in it being only crap 18:10:28 <Ruudjah> Ammler: I asked 'good picks' :P 18:10:36 <frosch123> same for emacs/xemacs users 18:10:58 <frosch123> i just do not know anyone who uses it effectively :) 18:11:12 <Alberth> frosch123: that's the challenge :) 18:11:57 <Alberth> Ruudjah: true, but most (all?)projects I dev/devved for do other way around <-- perhaps because OpenTTD is already quite old? 18:11:58 <Ruudjah> I take IDE quite literally, becoming stressed when functions are not yet in there (plugins etc, insane default settings) 18:12:20 <Zuu> That's why I never recommend anyone to use vim as most people are not motivated to learn enough to make good use of it. 18:12:26 <Ruudjah> I of integrated completely literally 18:12:51 <frosch123> Ruudjah: so you prefer an "ide" which has as many functions as possible 18:12:53 <Ruudjah> e.g. a button "download openttd code, compile it, and run it" 18:13:11 <Ruudjah> not necessarily 18:13:22 <Ruudjah> the functions in there being integrated 18:15:15 <Ruudjah> I want to learn a lot, but mostly stuff I _need_ to learn, e.g. VCS integration being a necessary evil which should just work and not make me think. I want to think about ottd code, not how I do things to make it happen 18:16:35 <frosch123> one important property of an ide for me is also that it must not use project files or simliar 18:16:46 <yorick> heh, ides :) 18:16:47 * planetmaker found that a big IDE doesn't really help to get things done ;-) 18:17:16 <Alberth> but customizing the things around editing code gives opportunities for easier/faster development, which pay off much more than being able to type a little faster 18:17:19 <yorick> command line, emacs/nano/vim or even gedit and that's it 18:18:05 <Ammler> a big IDE might be good, if you have time to learn to use it 18:18:06 <Ruudjah> sane defaults+neat integration does not mean you can't have customization (MSVS&Eclipse being proof of that for me) 18:18:33 <Zuu> The biggest benefit in using MSVC over vim I find is debugging and code navigation in large projects. 18:18:43 <planetmaker> what frosch123 mentions is an important point: I've seen projects which use these - and then they're a constant cause of annoyance as they're not updated coherently for all project types / ides 18:19:08 <Ruudjah> "it must not use project files or simliar" --> ?? 18:19:29 <Terkhen> my problem with IDEs is that they usually add stuff to my project which it does not need and that when they fail (which at least for me happened quite frequently) I need to learn how to do the stuff they do for me anyways 18:19:43 <frosch123> Ruudjah: the build uses makefiles 18:20:13 <frosch123> any more files listing the files in the project is just crap. the ide should display everything is a the directory 18:20:17 <frosch123> and subdirectories 18:20:31 <planetmaker> (yes, msvc requires them seemingly) 18:20:41 <frosch123> well, msvc has no makefiles 18:20:42 <Alberth> and you may have several copies of the sources at your disk, moving things around between directories 18:20:47 <Ammler> butbut, why do you have source.list then? 18:21:13 <frosch123> Ammler: it is allowed to list the stuff in _one_ file 18:21:14 <Alberth> source.list is not part of the IDE 18:21:35 <Ruudjah> so - what IDE might be good for me? 18:22:37 <frosch123> the one which you are most comfortable with 18:22:45 <Ammler> start with something and be open for others :-) 18:22:51 <Ruudjah> right 18:22:52 <frosch123> i refuse the idea that there is a "best idea for everyone" 18:23:03 <frosch123> -a 18:23:17 <Ruudjah> "best ide for project X"? 18:23:23 <frosch123> neither that 18:23:39 <Ammler> maybe there isn't even best IDE for you 18:23:42 <Zuu> Personal preference also matters. 18:23:46 <frosch123> if a project relies on a specific ide (as in relying on the project files for that), i consider it already crap :p 18:24:49 <Ruudjah> But I can imagine there exist IDE's which fit C++/OpenTTD's project state more then others? 18:25:39 <Yexo> why would there be any such IDE? 18:26:20 <Alberth> Ruudjah: a good strategy in OSS is to pick one program and use it. You will find bad spots while you use it. If they start to irritate, find another program for replacement, and ditch the previous one. Repeat forever 18:26:49 <Terkhen> ^ 18:27:01 <Ammler> oh poor man, next thing you have to chose is one of the scm, since the silly openttd offers 3 different types :-P 18:27:10 <Ammler> 4 (source bundles) 18:27:18 <Ruudjah> because specialization tends to produce better software, just like OpenTTD does. It specializes on one specific part and does that really good. So IDE's focusing on all languages might support most languages OK, but IDe focused on one lang might support that lang very well 18:27:45 <Ruudjah> to name an example (language part of an IDE) 18:28:05 <Alberth> but they also want to be generic and multi-language (all used languages in one project) 18:28:18 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-23-20.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 18:28:47 <Alberth> isn't there a KDE development ide too? kdevelop or so? 18:29:05 * Alberth bets there is a gnome one too 18:29:59 <Ammler> kdevelop is nice too 18:30:09 <Ammler> as you have the Konsole integrated :-) 18:30:38 <Ruudjah> Side question - why do you guys use a console in an IDE? I never did that? 18:31:21 <Alberth> grep , make, sort stuff, run sed, etc 18:31:30 <Terkhen> because you can do all kind of crazy magic with a console 18:31:46 <Ammler> you don't need to remember commands 18:31:49 <Alberth> hg commands 18:32:07 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0ccbb4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:32:19 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:33:32 <Alberth> Ruudjah: 'grep -r <some-phrase> src' gives you one line of context for every occurrence of <some-phrase> at one screen, your ide is never that fast/good 18:33:48 <Ruudjah> ^^that stuff I expect my IDE to provide 18:33:56 <Ruudjah> If not, failure 18:34:08 <Alberth> then dump all IDEs :) 18:34:21 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-84-211.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:34:23 <Ruudjah> There's a reason I'm asking the question here ;) 18:35:10 <Alberth> the only problem is that it takes time to learn console, your editor, etc 18:35:25 <Terkhen> the only IDE I use is Qt Creator, but only because it is quite good for Qt stuff and it is very light 18:36:16 <Terkhen> but it does not support configure based projects (IIRC it imports makefiles), so you would probably run into problems using it for OpenTTD 18:36:18 <Alberth> you want the perfect environment out of the box. I am constantly tuning my setup, always improving in little steps. 18:37:43 <fonsinchen> I use my IDE primarily for quick navigation to definitions of classes and functions. This is very handy and I haven't found a way to do it that conveniently with a more lightweight editor. 18:38:04 * Alberth uses doxygen generated html docs for that 18:38:34 <fonsinchen> That works for looking up things, but not for changing things. 18:38:41 <Alberth> true 18:38:57 <frosch123> fonsinchen: that function is also present in a lot of lightweight stuff 18:39:04 <fonsinchen> Also it doesn't take place inside the editor. You have to switch to a web browser. 18:39:15 <frosch123> and yes, that function is very important :) 18:39:17 <fonsinchen> Is it? I didn't manage to get it to work in vim. 18:39:22 * Alberth has 6 desktops, switching is 1 key-press 18:39:32 <frosch123> vim can use ctags 18:39:47 <Ruudjah> Lately, I needed to generate doxygen for a project... 18:40:28 <Ruudjah> Having never used Eclipse, I clicked around a bit, and noted generate docs, it presented me with a wizard, and off I went 18:41:23 <Ruudjah> as an example of how I like my cake ;) 18:42:03 <Alberth> I have a script that pulls the latest updates, rebuilds the binary, and regenerates the docs 18:42:44 <Terkhen> quick navigation is the only thing I miss, yes 18:43:37 <Ruudjah> Alberth: you wrote that script manually, or generated it using an ide? 18:44:08 <Alberth> I wrote it myself, 3 years ago 18:44:10 <Terkhen> it is probably faster to code it yourself than to generate it somehow 18:44:18 <Alberth> it is about 10 lines 18:45:13 <Alberth> Ruudjah: an IDE is always limited, it knows X things you can switch on/off. I tend to want at least X+1 things 18:45:32 <Alberth> hence I don't like IDEs, as they limit how I can organize my work 18:46:33 <Alberth> or I need to know a zillion things about how to extend the IDE, which I have no interest in to know 18:50:31 <Ruudjah> from what I conclude about all these responses, IDE's need a very long way to go 18:51:05 <Zuu> Even if I often use an IDE (msvc or delphi), I pull up vim from time to time to perform actions that is simply much easier in vim than in a the text editors of those IDEs. 18:52:07 <Zuu> Somtimes grep is the right tool as well.. Using an IDE does not forbid you to dig up other tools when they are better. 18:52:19 <Ruudjah> specialization 18:52:24 <Alberth> Ruudjah: IDEs provide an easy way to get going. It makes many common things easy. But at some point you will hit limitations 18:53:03 <Alberth> When they start to irritate, find new program(s), and ditch the previous one :) 18:53:36 <Ruudjah> One (of many) reason to use OSS ide, is being able to extend them 18:54:20 <Alberth> sure, but then you are doing dev-work in the ide project 18:54:42 <Ruudjah> sometimes this overlaps with the project 18:54:44 <Zuu> comersial IDEs usually allow for extension if you have a paid license. The problem usally arise when you use the free version of the comersial IDEs. 18:55:04 <Ruudjah> OSS 18:56:20 <Eddi|zuHause> http://pastebin.com/z4FQbpCg <-- that's what my refit masks look like now 18:59:57 *** theserpent [5c4be43d@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:00:46 <Eddi|zuHause> the majority of FIRS cargos seem to be transported in open wagons, so they need special graphics :( 19:01:48 <andythenorth> vans 19:02:02 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: tarpaulins cover all sins 19:02:03 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 19:02:16 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: cover the bulk wagons 19:02:27 <theserpent> !password 19:02:27 *** theserpent was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.] 19:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause> oh... whe didn't have that one in a while! :p 19:03:09 <Alberth> good that someone tested it again :) 19:04:50 <Ruudjah> tnx all 19:05:00 <Alberth> yw :) 19:05:13 <Eddi|zuHause> there's actually no reason to disable the container wagon, but i don't want to think about what could go in there... 19:06:05 <andythenorth> everything 19:06:48 <Alberth> how does that compare with 'anything'? 19:07:07 <Alberth> (just wondering about the difference in meaning between the words) 19:07:21 <Eddi|zuHause> the possibility of mixture 19:07:23 <Chris_Booth> lol I like that kick 19:07:35 <Chris_Booth> I may use it when I leave from now XD 19:07:36 <Eddi|zuHause> "anything" is "one of many", "everything" is "many of many" 19:07:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Chris_Booth: that'll likely lead to a ban. 19:08:22 <Alberth> besides, /quit is faster/shorter to type :) 19:08:41 <Chris_Booth> it is 19:08:58 <Chris_Booth> or /kickme 19:10:16 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:10:38 * Alberth is very tempted to perform that request :p 19:11:20 <Eddi|zuHause> TB would have done it by now :p 19:12:00 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 19:12:16 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: the better thing is "@ kbanme" 19:20:07 <dihedral> @logs 19:20:07 <DorpsGek> dihedral: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 19:31:40 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:32:40 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 19:33:29 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 19:37:38 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:39:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D494.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:39:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D494.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:41:59 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I tried moving the pumps further in earlier today 19:42:12 <andythenorth> it creates a weird optical illusion - that the canopy is not very high 19:42:37 <andythenorth> it looks like it is lower in height than it should be 19:42:39 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... 19:42:51 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, they usually are very high 19:42:54 <andythenorth> the only solution is to show the legs - which means they are further out than in RL 19:43:03 <andythenorth> I tried for about an hour ;) 19:43:16 * Alberth likes the flower beds 19:43:26 <andythenorth> the ones I removed? 19:44:07 *** murr5y [~murray@101.84-48-68.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 19:44:27 *** murr4y [~murray@101.84-48-68.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:53 <Alberth> LordAro: http://www.fpaste.org/3iZc/ 19:45:36 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:46:56 <Alberth> andythenorth: no, the ones before. I didn't know you have new ones (number 2 and 3) 19:47:57 <supermop> good afternoon 19:48:56 <Alberth> supermop: but I quite close to going to sleep 19:50:25 <Alberth> andythenorth: number 2 has too much empty space, but perhaps because I have seen the previous one (that I like). Number 3 does not have that problem, as the empty space 'belongs' to the shop for me. 19:56:17 <andythenorth> Alberth: I can't be bothered to rotate the shop for the layout ;) 19:57:14 <Alberth> no need, this is better imho, it gives more diversity 19:57:58 <Alberth> ie, to a player, it would be a rotated version of the same station 20:00:54 <Alberth> (if you rotated the shop too) 20:04:32 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607&p=941005#p941005 20:04:35 <andythenorth> looks...ok 20:07:24 <andythenorth> I'm putting back some flowerbed 20:13:37 <Eddi|zuHause> looks great! 20:14:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the pumps and the shop could be closer together... usually you don't want to get wet while going to pay... 20:15:29 <supermop> use the card reader on the pump? 20:15:41 <supermop> thats what i do 20:15:43 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: no such thing in europe. 20:16:01 <supermop> i only go inside when i want to buy a snack on long road trips 20:16:25 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: the stations survive by people using their shop, it would hurt their business if the people wouldn't have to walk 5m into the shop 20:16:33 <supermop> in the us you have to put in your card before the pump will turn on 20:16:52 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:16:56 <Eddi|zuHause> they don't actually make any money on fuel. 20:17:03 <supermop> indeed not, 20:17:10 <supermop> except in certain areas 20:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> or if they do, like half a cent per liter 20:17:58 <supermop> in nyc all of the money comes from the gas, as many stations in the city do not even have shops 20:18:45 <supermop> but outside of ny, shop revenue is more impoortant 20:18:48 <Nite> Hi 20:18:54 <Alberth> andythenorth: doesn't it need a big display of the oil company, and the cheap prices of the fuel ? 20:19:19 <Nite> does the "find server" button refresh the whole server list? 20:19:22 <supermop> a sign with the ottd logo would be cool 20:20:15 <planetmaker> ottd = oil, tools and toys distributions Inc. ? 20:20:26 <planetmaker> :-P 20:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and what's the "TTDP" on the farm stations? 20:22:12 <planetmaker> Toys & Tools for your Dear Pets Corp. 20:22:13 <Nite> its a Transport Tycoon Deluxe Pharm ... what else ;) 20:22:16 <andythenorth> I tried a price sign, but it looks odd :P 20:23:03 <Alberth> s/toys/tires/ 20:23:16 <planetmaker> :-) 20:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> mÀh... i wanted to patch something, but i forgot what... 20:25:02 <planetmaker> I'll try to patch my attention span... good night :-) 20:25:06 <andythenorth> bye 20:25:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: patch towns 20:32:30 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0ccbb4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:33 <Nite> any idea how to get the russians to upload their pretty rtts (russiantrainsandtrams) on bananas (?) 20:33:48 <Terkhen> ask them? 20:34:18 <Nite> but how where? (i dont speak russian) 20:34:34 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:36:10 *** JOHN-SHEPARD_ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-111-179.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:36:43 <Terkhen> I don't know, sorry... but they must know about bananas already; they probably don't upload their newgrf by choice 20:37:00 <Nite> could be 20:37:32 <Nite> its really a cool and complete set ... 20:41:34 <Nite> its also not on grfcrawler 20:41:45 <Nite> is grfcrawler still updated? 20:42:32 <andythenorth> not by me :P 20:42:50 *** ar3k [~ident@ecl69.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 20:43:59 * andythenorth has a plan to extend bananas to bring back some of what grf-crawler did 20:44:50 <Nite> bananas is doing a lot 20:46:13 <Nite> afk 20:46:50 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecl69.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:47:41 *** Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-172-101.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:49:55 <frosch123> night 20:49:57 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has left #openttd [] 20:49:59 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff092.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:23 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e061cc4.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 20:54:54 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 20:55:07 <Terkhen> good night 20:55:46 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:11:20 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: join my irc at irc.sla-company.co.cc] 21:12:44 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 21:13:47 *** mikegrb [~michael@mikegrb.netop.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:12 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 21:18:23 *** drumspirit [~drumspiri@dsl.static-186-116-74-153.electronicbox.net] has joined #openttd 21:18:29 <drumspirit> hi guys 21:23:36 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:23:57 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 21:27:59 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:06 <Wolf01> 'night 21:31:09 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host152-235-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:33:02 <__ln__> what are these? http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/atlas/largemap.jsp?crc=2925941148&KeepThis=true&TB_iframe=true&height=700&width=800 21:33:23 <__ln__> counties or not? something else? 21:36:34 <guru3> urgh not counties 21:36:37 <guru3> way too many of 'em 21:36:45 <guru3> and they get denser with population 21:39:20 * Zuu sees a ArcMap map 21:39:52 <Zuu> Though it could possible be MapInfo as well. But I recognize the color scale as being one of the defaults in ArcMap. 21:40:16 <guru3> i almost want to say it has something to do with post code 21:40:54 <Zuu> Could be units used for statistics. 21:41:08 <__ln__> looks similar: http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/04_03/map_800x1183.jpg 21:41:11 <Zuu> They are usually more dense in cities and less dense in the countryside. 21:41:29 <guru3> local authority eh 21:41:41 <guru3> yes i think they're the same 21:42:36 <supermop> no one wants to migrate to the North east it looks like 21:42:38 <Zuu> Though these areas are quite large compared to the statistical areas I work with at work. Making a orgin-destination table of a city using those zones is not a very good idea. :-) 21:44:11 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:44:18 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-007-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 21:52:36 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-161-134.joensuunelli.fi] has quit [Quit: asilv] 21:55:56 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D4B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:24 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:58:36 <Eddi|zuHause> err... how can i give money between companies if i only have one client? 21:59:10 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:49 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 22:00:19 <Ammler> you don't 22:00:38 <Ammler> but it is easy to join with a 2nd client 22:00:48 <Ammler> so not a real abuse protection 22:01:04 <Ammler> if it was meant as 22:01:07 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:01:36 *** dpkendal [~david@5addc44e.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: dpkendal] 22:03:11 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d083b68.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 22:08:33 *** drumspirit [~drumspiri@dsl.static-186-116-74-153.electronicbox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:44 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:21:26 *** mikegrb [~michael@mikegrb.netop.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:26:53 *** drumspirit [~drumspiri@dsl.static-186-116-74-153.electronicbox.net] has joined #openttd 22:28:55 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC22BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 22:55:32 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 22:58:02 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:58:08 *** drumspirit [~drumspiri@dsl.static-186-116-74-153.electronicbox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:32 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecl69.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 23:16:48 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe35dc00-187.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 23:21:34 *** ar3k [~ident@ecl69.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:34:16 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 23:39:16 *** sigue [contempt@stole.ur.cc-number.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:43:35 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:47:11 *** sigue [contempt@stole.ur.cc-number.info] has joined #openttd 23:54:38 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 23:58:20 *** Chris_Booth_ [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd