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00:04:54 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:23:02 <Pikka> spy 'round here... 00:27:22 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@027c1417.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 01:04:50 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 01:17:51 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:36 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.153.193.224] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 01:56:10 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Partir, c'est mourir un peu.] 01:56:31 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 02:08:18 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:26:06 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-156-051.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:29:35 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-220-139-004.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:37:10 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9010:fb6f:ceb4:cb17] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:49:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6A81C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:52:47 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> charon.oftc.net quits: V453000, Bjarte, Vadtec, raidghost, SirSquidness, TheMask96, snorre, Strid_, amkoroew1, luckz, (+4 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 02:52:53 *** Netsplit over, joins: George, XeryusTC, amkoroew1, TheMask96, V453000, Bjarte, luckz, Strid_, welterde, @DorpsGek (+5 more) 02:52:58 *** mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ 02:53:45 *** Netsplit over, joins: Vadtec 04:03:22 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has joined #openttd 04:11:27 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:14:28 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has joined #openttd 04:39:22 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 04:51:51 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:56:03 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76B53.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:19 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76C9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:56:44 *** lugo [lugo@89.238.177.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:05:45 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-156-051.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:09:45 *** Markavian [~Markavian@66.100-50-210.dynamic.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:22:01 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:46 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 05:23:50 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 05:30:45 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:39:29 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 05:50:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 05:50:05 <Terkhen> good morning 05:55:46 <andythenorth> hi Terkhen 05:57:06 * andythenorth has a suggestion for invisibility panel 05:57:19 <andythenorth> lets make it really big, so it's really clear and easy to understand 05:57:35 <andythenorth> no matter that it obscures 66.67% of available screen 05:57:45 <SmatZ> and occupies half of the screen! 05:57:49 <andythenorth> we could add another button to it 05:57:55 <andythenorth> 'make the invisibility panel invisible' 05:58:51 <SmatZ> :P 05:58:51 <andythenorth> of course the solution for all GUI problems is to simply add a button to the visible GUI to suit each kind of person 05:59:03 * andythenorth has not yet had caffeine 05:59:06 <SmatZ> the 'X' button makes the window invisible 05:59:21 <andythenorth> cmd-q, enter makes it invisible on OS X 05:59:32 <andythenorth> along with the rest of the game :P 05:59:46 <SmatZ> :) 06:07:35 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:07:37 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC40E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:13:57 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 06:17:25 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@027c1417.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:22:45 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 06:26:46 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: gone...] 06:26:46 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Bye - http.//dev.openttdcoop.org] 06:26:59 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 06:27:29 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 06:27:29 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 06:28:10 *** tneo [~tneo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: bye - http://www.openttdcoop.org] 06:28:11 *** Yexo [~Yexo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: bye - http://dev.openttdcoop.org] 06:28:21 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Ehm.. Quit? What's That?] 06:28:59 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 06:28:59 *** tneo [~tneo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 06:29:20 <planetmaker> moin 06:29:20 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:28 *** SmatZ [~smatz@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:31 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30:03 *** SmatZ [~smatz@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 06:30:06 *** mode/#openttd [+o SmatZ] by ChanServ 06:30:29 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 06:30:32 *** mode/#openttd [+o Terkhen] by ChanServ 06:30:59 *** Yexo [~Yexo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 06:31:02 *** mode/#openttd [+o Yexo] by ChanServ 06:32:02 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.noaddedsugar.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32:05 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 06:32:08 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 06:32:11 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 06:32:18 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.noaddedsugar.net] has joined #openttd 06:35:12 *** tycoondemon2 [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 06:35:54 <Zuu> hello planetmaker and see you later 06:36:55 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:37:10 *** FloSoft [bouncer@78.46.208.242] has quit [Quit: Server does not respond.] 06:37:52 <planetmaker> he :-) 06:38:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 06:41:16 *** FloSoft [bouncer@78.46.208.242] has joined #openttd 06:43:17 *** tycoondemon2 [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:44:52 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:45:19 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:45:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 06:45:54 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:48:17 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:48:42 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:54:12 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:54:23 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 06:59:05 *** NOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-107-36.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:54 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:09:18 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 07:14:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19F37.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:26:59 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 07:31:31 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:46:39 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:00:46 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:02:39 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:02:55 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 08:03:55 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:06:18 *** Felicitus [~timo@idefix.timohummel.com] has joined #openttd 08:06:19 <Felicitus> hi 08:06:43 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-188-075.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:07:07 <Felicitus> any news regarding FS#1622 ? the feature request is very old (2008), has a patch (updated in 2010) but no acticity since then 08:16:04 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:25:09 *** lugo [lugo@89.238.177.145] has joined #openttd 08:34:29 <LordAro> Felicitus: i think you need to look at Belugas' comments on the patch 08:36:20 <LordAro> anyone here able to help with bash scripting? 'if [[!] -o [ != "default"]]; then' results in: './autohgpull.sh: line 15: [[!]: command not found' 08:37:19 <TWerkhoven> never really done bash before, but it sounds like variable is empty 08:37:42 <TWerkhoven> because it tries to do the not (!) without anything else 08:37:50 <Felicitus> LordAro: yes, but since chu updated his patch, maybe a re-review would be nice. that's a feature very useful on goal servers 08:38:57 <LordAro> Felicitus: yes, i agree :) 08:39:13 <Felicitus> LordAro: try adding a space between ! and 08:39:23 <Felicitus> and between [ and ! 08:39:30 <Felicitus> i think bash is bretty picky about that ;) 08:39:45 <Felicitus> (but I'm no bash expert either, just a guess) 08:39:58 <LordAro> i'm trying to do: "if exists or equals "default"" 08:40:03 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe21dc00-138.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:40:05 <LordAro> i'll try your suggestion 08:40:22 <andythenorth> grr 08:40:27 <TWerkhoven> if <> $null (is that valid bash?) 08:40:33 * andythenorth got stitched up by automatic orders 08:41:11 <andythenorth> they affect the vehicles list for stations 08:41:38 <andythenorth> so I've needlessly scrapped some vehicles 08:41:50 <andythenorth> thinking there were far too many serving a station 08:43:12 <Ammler> [[ -z "" -o "" != "default" ]] 08:44:08 <LordAro> thank you o-great-bash-master Ammler :) 08:45:22 <LordAro> oh - "syntax error near '-o'" 08:46:09 <Ammler> [[ -z ]] || [[ != "default" ]] 08:46:35 <Ammler> or man test 08:50:21 <LordAro> man test? 08:50:57 <Ammler> acutally [[ isn't test anymore 08:51:42 <LordAro> actually, is there an opposite to '-z'? 08:52:18 <LordAro> is that just [[ ]] ? 08:53:05 <Ammler> yes 08:54:06 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B1077B8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:54:07 <LordAro> are you sure? it doesn't seem to work... 08:55:52 <LordAro> i g2g... have a paste, fiddle with that :) http://pastebin.com/dYevMzwu 08:57:16 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B103D8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:59:29 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-161-134.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd 09:01:20 <planetmaker> Felicitus, indeed it seems that it had coding style issues... and meanwhile the patch is outdated by 6 months again ;-) 09:04:14 <Ammler> LordAro: I have no clue what that should do 09:04:54 <Felicitus> planetmaker: I will see what I can do 09:05:15 <Felicitus> planetmaker: is it OK to take the patch and work upon that? 09:08:19 <Ammler> also [[ "" ]] || [[ "" != "default" ]] is always true 09:08:51 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 09:20:10 <planetmaker> Felicitus, It's not my patch, but I recon it is. Assuming he agreed to GPL v2 as license when posting the original patch, you might want to mention the original patch writer though. 09:23:17 <Felicitus> yes, of course planetmaker. btw does ottd use an automatic code formatter or are coding style issues resolved manually? 09:24:31 <planetmaker> OpenTTD has its coding style which patches must follow. What you use locally to achieve that: your choice. I do it manually 09:24:46 <planetmaker> with an occasional script to check for white spaces 09:24:49 <Felicitus> ok 09:24:50 <dihedral> good morning 09:25:14 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Coding_style 09:25:21 <planetmaker> ^ there's an extensive wiki page on it ;-) 09:25:29 <Felicitus> eek :) 09:26:10 <planetmaker> hello dihedral 09:26:38 <dihedral> i've seen longer coding style docs - no need to eek at that one ;-) 09:27:32 <planetmaker> not that I've done much research on it, but I've seen the OpenTTD style guide referenced elsewhere. Forgot where, though 09:28:02 <planetmaker> and lengthy != comprehensive ;-) 09:28:10 <planetmaker> the longer, the less likely to be read :-P 09:29:05 <Felicitus> yep 09:32:57 <andythenorth> bbl 09:32:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has left #openttd [] 09:53:04 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 10:11:17 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:31:54 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host41-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:32:07 <Wolf01> hello 10:35:51 <__ln__> giorno 10:39:21 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 10:40:23 * andythenorth wants new object tiles that accept / produce 10:40:24 <andythenorth> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dXEL7_-VClA/TOlQfvHpk_I/AAAAAAAAAuI/Txq79DYBvX8/s1600/090405_OswegoLighthouse-1.jpg 10:46:52 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 10:48:06 <planetmaker> those'd be industries, andythenorth 10:48:21 <planetmaker> or what would be the difference? 10:48:32 <andythenorth> I ask myself this question too 10:48:53 <andythenorth> I have no good argument 10:48:59 <andythenorth> other than 'indsutry seems wrong for this' 10:49:00 <planetmaker> the 'feature' industry not necessarily needs to provide only industries in the commonly understood sense 10:49:23 <planetmaker> But yes... both makes sense. Somewhat :-) 10:49:34 <andythenorth> I think I am distracted by understanding the code so much 10:49:39 <andythenorth> I can't be objective 10:49:48 <planetmaker> especially with objects? ;-) 10:49:50 <andythenorth> for something like a lighthouse, what makes most sense to player? 10:49:54 <andythenorth> ho 10:50:08 <planetmaker> 'light house' indeed feels like object 10:50:46 <planetmaker> But... what would then be the difference to industry (except the technical aspect of views / layouts)? 10:50:55 <planetmaker> Wouldn't players wonder about that? 10:51:09 <andythenorth> maybe 10:51:09 <planetmaker> Why are industries auto-generated, objects not? Shall that be the difference? The only one? 10:51:17 * andythenorth isn't sure 10:51:23 <planetmaker> Would make *somewhat* sense. 10:51:30 <andythenorth> industry is the correct way to do a lighthouse 10:51:34 <andythenorth> does it seem right though? 10:51:38 <planetmaker> nope 10:51:41 <andythenorth> maybe the idea is bad, not the implementation 10:51:45 <andythenorth> is a lighthouse a good idea? 10:51:53 <planetmaker> yes, but not as industry ;-) 10:52:04 <planetmaker> as house or object 10:54:06 *** Adambean` [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 10:54:14 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 10:54:29 *** Firzen [~Neon@dslb-178-004-188-075.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 10:54:59 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.68.83] has joined #openttd 10:55:05 <andythenorth> but if house, it won't build away from town... 10:55:05 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B1077B8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:55:05 <andythenorth> and if object, no pax acceptance / production 10:55:05 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:55:05 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:55:05 <andythenorth> delivering small amounts to lighthouses smells a bit wrong 10:55:05 <andythenorth> too clever 10:55:05 <andythenorth> not good gameplay 10:55:05 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B1077B8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:00:42 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B1077B8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:04:14 <planetmaker> andythenorth, what I'd do with a light house is both: house and object. As a house it could be built in a town. On the shore only with sufficient water around. Never to be destroyed again. And as NewObject such that the player can (also) place it where desired. If you want modify (also) the default lighthouse sprite to make it universally used. 11:04:40 *** peter1139 [~petern@lachesis.fuzzle.org] has joined #openttd 11:04:41 <planetmaker> and of course as house: min distance between eachother 11:04:50 *** k-man_ [~jason@ppp167-253-181.static.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 11:05:23 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> kilo.oftc.net quits: Mazur, Neon, rasco, guru3, lasershock`, Cursarion, @peter1138, +michi_cc, amkoroew, Br33z4hSlut5, (+6 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 11:05:23 *** zachanim2 [~zach@dedi.akselii.net] has joined #openttd 11:08:24 *** lasershock [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 11:13:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 11:16:08 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:17:13 *** LordAro [~kvirc@host86-149-31-152.range86-149.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 11:17:13 * andythenorth ponders delivering engineering supplies in phantom f4 fighter jet 11:19:10 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:19:35 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 11:19:38 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 11:22:05 *** rasco [rasco@tietos.com] has joined #openttd 11:22:05 *** Cursarion [ronin@viuhka.fi] has joined #openttd 11:22:05 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:22:05 *** guru3 [~guru3@81-235-164-123-no21.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 11:24:21 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-60-81.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 11:27:50 <Terkhen> sounds cool but not very efficient :) 11:28:13 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-60-81.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:28:16 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 11:28:51 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:29:09 <SpComb> delivering engineerin supplies in a phantom f4 to a nuclear power plant industry? 11:46:45 <Pikka> fancy 11:47:08 <Pikka> they can't carry enough to make money, though :) 11:47:24 <andythenorth> making money? 11:47:29 <andythenorth> shocking 11:47:36 <Pikka> your winnings, sir 11:47:41 <Pikka> also 11:48:04 <Pikka> norseman should be good for such deliveries, also pc12s, etc. 11:48:09 <Pikka> but for now it is bedtime! 11:48:12 <Pikka> goodnight wallyweb 11:48:19 * andythenorth makes a homelette 11:48:35 *** Pikka [~Figgy@d58-111-77-124.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:58:58 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 12:03:36 *** macee [~macee@dsl4E5C1F65.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 12:03:57 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.68.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:45 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.73.122] has joined #openttd 12:06:40 * andythenorth ventures into YACD 12:15:14 <andythenorth> hmm 12:16:56 <andythenorth> how interestink 12:17:11 <andythenorth> this will turn the game upside down 12:21:39 * andythenorth could do with a manual :P 12:23:27 <andythenorth> the concept is quite like 'supply contracts' that have been discussed n times 12:23:32 <andythenorth> but without the faff 12:23:57 <andythenorth> ho 12:24:22 * andythenorth is losing money fast 12:36:40 <andythenorth> bankrupt :D 12:36:52 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-15-6.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:38:42 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9010:fb6f:ceb4:cb17] has joined #openttd 12:38:45 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:42:59 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-60-81.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:47:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A81C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:54:29 <planetmaker> :-) 12:54:51 <planetmaker> can't you air-connect two major towns and be set? 12:54:52 <Belugas> hello 12:55:04 <andythenorth> not sure how YACD handles transfers yet 12:56:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, automatically, i suppose 12:56:19 <andythenorth> I suppose too 12:56:53 <andythenorth> YACD + FIRS is....interesting 12:57:20 <andythenorth> there are conflicts with a few of the FIRS concepts 12:58:13 * andythenorth wonders if cargo from water industries is being handled differently to that from land 12:58:21 <andythenorth> land industry appears to favour nearby destination 12:58:28 <andythenorth> water appears to favour distant destination 12:59:38 *** Chris_Booth is now known as Guest3255 13:00:37 * andythenorth thinks YACD *will* work very well with FIRS clustering of farms and mines etc 13:01:02 <andythenorth> the idea of moving cargo to a hub station via transfers is very YACD-friendly 13:01:04 <andythenorth> hmm 13:01:16 <andythenorth> switchyards might become a lot more common.... 13:01:59 * Eddi|zuHause still finds /yak-d/ hard to pronounce 13:01:59 *** guru3_ [~guru3@81-235-164-123-no21.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 13:03:02 <andythenorth> is it 'yakked' ? 13:03:13 <andythenorth> as in 'they were yakking, they yakked a lot' 13:03:44 <andythenorth> it's yak-d to me 13:03:48 * Eddi|zuHause doesn't understand the relevance of /iks-ka-tse-de/, which clearly is individual letters... 13:04:51 *** guru3 [~guru3@81-235-164-123-no21.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:17:19 *** Guest3255 [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224]] 13:17:36 *** Chris_Booth_ [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:19:19 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 13:31:56 * andythenorth isn't yet sure, but YACD might create a case for %loaded orders 13:32:21 <andythenorth> otherwise I have to timetable a lot 13:32:52 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a patch somewhere that made conditional orders useful for the case that new order = old order 13:33:06 <Eddi|zuHause> like: 13:33:09 <Eddi|zuHause> 1: load at X 13:33:21 <Eddi|zuHause> 2: if load% < 80%: goto 1 13:33:27 <Eddi|zuHause> 3: unload at Y 13:33:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the trick here is making the train not leave 1 13:34:17 <Eddi|zuHause> currently, this would make the train start and stop constantly 13:34:51 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@190.80-203-100.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 13:37:03 * andythenorth will test some more 13:37:50 <andythenorth> the traditional gameplay favours point-point unit trains, 13:38:05 <andythenorth> with YACD, manifest trains might be much more viable 13:38:19 <andythenorth> similarly 'liner service' for ships 13:38:57 <andythenorth> large mixed freights on mainlines might be quite efficient 13:39:08 <andythenorth> but managing the load orders will be complicated 13:39:18 <andythenorth> maybe timetables are the right answer 13:40:19 * andythenorth now wants mixed-cargo ships again :P 13:42:55 *** alluke [~52b528fd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 13:43:04 *** Adambean` [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:45:53 <Eddi|zuHause> these are exactly the same thoughts i went through with my last cargodist game :p 13:46:09 <Eddi|zuHause> next thought on that trace is: shunting :p 13:46:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and: trains on ships :p 13:46:31 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@190.80-203-100.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224]] 13:48:17 <lugo> goods (subcargo: trains) ;) 13:51:09 <andythenorth> the incentive seems to be to connect network nodes as densely and quickly as possible 13:51:24 <andythenorth> traditional gameplay, there's no incentive 13:55:02 * andythenorth wonders if there's any point waiting at stations at all 13:55:06 <andythenorth> (for PAX) 13:55:24 <alluke> whats pax 13:55:37 <planetmaker> passengers 13:55:40 <alluke> ok 13:55:59 <andythenorth> alluke: I'm discussing YACD - before I mislead you :P 13:56:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i usually wait at end stations, to have some determined time windows for freight trains 13:56:20 <alluke> okay 13:56:41 <alluke> freight trains? what are those? :P 13:57:02 <alluke> i see those extremely rare in here :( 13:58:08 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-156-051.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 13:58:49 * andythenorth is going to lose this new YACD test game pretty soon too 13:58:59 <planetmaker> he 13:59:19 <andythenorth> everything loses money 13:59:35 <andythenorth> I have a town with 1,700 people, but only 25 want to go somewhere today :| 13:59:36 <andythenorth> :P 14:00:31 <planetmaker> it's holiday season 14:00:41 <planetmaker> but 25 people can fill a bus 14:01:07 <andythenorth> :) 14:01:42 <alluke> whats yacd 14:01:59 <alluke> planetmaker you have tiny buses 14:02:58 <andythenorth> local transport is important inside large cities 14:03:28 <alluke> youre a sherlock 14:03:31 <andythenorth> totally changes local networks 14:03:35 <planetmaker> maybe that works with yacd, andythenorth ? 14:04:00 <alluke> is yacd some new project? 14:04:00 <andythenorth> it does 14:04:04 <andythenorth> yarp 14:04:07 <alluke> ah 14:04:07 <alluke> ok 14:04:40 <alluke> yet another role play? 14:05:47 <andythenorth> alluke: YACD is in the OpenTTD dev forum at tt-forums 14:05:53 <alluke> okay 14:05:55 <andythenorth> it's another cargo destination patch 14:06:30 <alluke> ok 14:07:25 * andythenorth wants boats with PAX + mail :( 14:08:26 <planetmaker> is that already on your pony list? 14:08:38 <andythenorth> it's not going to happen 14:08:41 <andythenorth> it has...problems 14:14:22 <planetmaker> articulated? 14:15:05 <planetmaker> doesn't make much sense either, though... 14:15:55 <planetmaker> but maybe... ships could get a 'compartment' property, which gives the number of 'wagons' 14:18:59 <asilv> refitting multicargo ships migh be problematic 14:19:42 <planetmaker> same as refitting trains 14:19:57 <planetmaker> code could be shared there 14:21:15 <asilv> not really, with trains you can refit some vagons and then add vagons refitted to other cargo, that won't work with ships 14:22:51 <planetmaker> hm, maybe the selective consist refit patch never made it into trunk... 14:22:55 <andythenorth> it did 14:23:01 <andythenorth> the issue is a GUI for ships 14:23:04 <asilv> oh 14:23:04 <andythenorth> how many 'holds' 14:23:12 <andythenorth> planes have the same issue, but we all ignore it :P 14:23:22 <andythenorth> it's the usual :\ 14:23:36 <planetmaker> andythenorth, the number of holds could be a newgrf property. And then simply be displayed in the GUI as cargo holds. Easy IMHO 14:23:52 <planetmaker> default ships: 1 cargo hold, nothing changes 14:23:57 <Terkhen> the refit GUI is prepared to deal with multiple parts now, the problem is what "parts" to display for ships 14:23:59 <planetmaker> So nicely backward compatible 14:24:12 <Terkhen> for trains is simple: wagons 14:24:13 <planetmaker> Terkhen, just some generic cargo hold icon 14:24:28 <planetmaker> action5, openttd.grf 14:24:55 <andythenorth> brb 14:25:23 <Terkhen> I would recommend fixing all issues with aircrafts first, as they already have "partial" support for this 14:25:31 <planetmaker> sure :-) 14:25:46 <planetmaker> but could work the same way 14:26:13 <Terkhen> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VehicleRefitting <--- you only need to turn this awful mess into a nice, consistent spec :) 14:27:03 <Terkhen> or at least the parts relating to how the special aircraft refit is hacked into the code 14:29:32 <Eddi|zuHause> well cargo holds for ships and for aircraft should not be any different... 14:29:40 *** Doorslammer [770b0359@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:29:58 <Terkhen> that's why IMO this should start with making aircraft refits more consistent 14:30:07 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, not that, but Terkhen means the mess of the specs and the convoluted behaviour ;-) 14:30:28 <Terkhen> currently it is a bit hacky 14:30:35 <Terkhen> as you only have one option 14:32:51 <planetmaker> hm, ships have no capacity multiplier? 14:34:59 <andythenorth> YACD might be really quite addictive :o 14:35:05 <planetmaker> :-) 14:35:16 <planetmaker> still not broke? 14:35:33 <andythenorth> it seems to have broken bridge building 14:35:41 <andythenorth> but no, I'm making money 14:35:43 <andythenorth> just 14:36:03 <andythenorth> I've focussed on PAX, and tried to build a dense network very fast 14:36:41 <andythenorth> I've piled *all* my cash into one area 14:36:57 <andythenorth> otherwise I'll never get any vehicles into profit 14:37:16 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0fc6f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:37:38 <Eddi|zuHause> with cargodist i usually pick two cities close to each other, in each one a tram network, and then a train between them 14:38:17 *** Sacro [~ben@cpc2-mfld9-0-0-cust880.13-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:38:41 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76C9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:40 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76C9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:45:43 <alluke> btw andy 14:46:16 <alluke> are you seriously going to balance heqs 2 to nars and ukrs? 14:47:08 <andythenorth> alluke: in terms of capacities? 14:47:10 <andythenorth> maybe 14:47:15 <alluke> hah 14:47:22 *** Amis [~Amis@catv-89-135-77-239.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #openttd 14:47:25 <alluke> they both are seriously undersized 14:47:58 <planetmaker> that's what she says 14:47:58 <alluke> why dont you just get real data from the vehicles theyll be based on 14:48:14 <planetmaker> real is boring and has nothing to do with game balance 14:49:12 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-156-051.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:50:10 <andythenorth> how do you know they're undersized? 14:50:19 <alluke> compare to other sets? 14:50:21 <alluke> and irl stuff 14:50:27 <alluke> OpenTTD is an open source simulation game based upon Transport Tycoon Deluxe 14:50:58 <planetmaker> it simulates particularly well real-world distances and time passage 14:51:00 <Amis> Hello! o/ 14:51:10 <Terkhen> hi Amis 14:51:14 <alluke> yes 14:51:14 <planetmaker> hi Amis 14:51:27 <Belugas> and "irl"... I hope it's not what I think it means... 14:51:40 <planetmaker> alluke, those who argue "it's good because it's realistic" have lost the argument, as it is no argument for a game ;-) 14:51:43 <Terkhen> it means inverted rail lines :P 14:51:49 <alluke> no 14:51:57 <andythenorth> alluke: a real life bethgon coal car has maybe 120t capacity 14:52:01 <alluke> but in my games i find the realistic stuff most fun 14:52:09 <Belugas> then, it's cool, Terkhen :) 14:52:10 <alluke> others can go to toyland :P 14:52:24 <Belugas> alluke, realism stinks in ottd 14:52:27 <Belugas> BIG TIME 14:52:28 <andythenorth> how many 120t wagons do I need in my train? 14:52:39 <andythenorth> for a coal mine with 120t production? 14:52:40 <Amis> I was wondering if disabled smooth economy has anything with the following or it's just a grf that's messing with me: even if a power plant has decent supply of coal, it closes after a certain time no matter what (1.1.0-RC3) 14:52:41 <andythenorth> :P 14:52:52 *** Absurd-Mind [~peter@p54958D6E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:53:01 <alluke> real coal trains carry thousands tons of coal 14:53:01 <planetmaker> power plants w/o newgrfs never close 14:53:20 <Amis> I see, so then it's a newgrf fiddling around 14:53:20 <Terkhen> a single diamond or gold mine production equals the real production of the whole world, so you can throw subarctic and subtropical to the same trash bin than toyland :) 14:53:25 <alluke> and 64 tile trains in ottd are superb fun 14:53:42 <planetmaker> lol 14:53:49 <alluke> have you ever tried 14:54:03 <Terkhen> 128 wagons is realistic? :P 14:54:10 <alluke> sure 14:54:25 <andythenorth> alluke: capacity will probably be a parameter option in HEQS 2. Worry not :P 14:54:35 <alluke> right 14:54:48 <alluke> btw 14:54:53 <alluke> i found a vehicle for that set 14:55:19 <alluke> you might like it 14:55:20 <alluke> dunno 14:55:25 <andythenorth> the sisu? 14:55:33 <alluke> yeah 14:55:37 <alluke> 120 ton mining truck 14:55:44 <andythenorth> you missed that part of the chat I guess ;) 14:55:48 <alluke> a bit different than the current ones in heqs 14:55:49 <alluke> ye 14:55:52 <alluke> my comp crashed 14:55:54 <andythenorth> ho 14:55:55 <Amis> Btw, thinking about this: "[16:53] <planetmaker> power plants w/o newgrfs never close", that means after a while I'll be flooded with power plants because they won't close? 14:55:57 <alluke> its broken old pos 14:56:00 <andythenorth> I see your sisu and raise you this: http://www.ptrans.com.au/ 14:56:05 <Terkhen> Amis: yes 14:56:10 <Amis> Hehh... 14:56:11 <Terkhen> you will get tons of banks too 14:56:18 <andythenorth> up to 350t, maybe 5 or 6 trailers. Highway truck speeds 14:56:26 <alluke> nice 14:56:42 <alluke> the sisu carries 120 tons at 40 kmh 14:56:47 <alluke> empty speed is 60 14:57:00 <Terkhen> opengfx+ industries allows these industries to close normally... but I wonder if we tested if a power plant can now close when it is serviced 14:57:03 <alluke> 19 liter 612hp cummins industrial diesel 14:57:18 <alluke> theres better pic 14:57:19 <alluke> http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/lonewolf_010/SISU/srh450.jpg 14:57:32 <Amis> Oh, I have opengfx+ and that is probably the one that closes my power plants 14:57:56 <alluke> they were built in early 90s for lkab in sweden 14:58:02 <Terkhen> hmm... IMO closing industries that are being serviced is a bug :/ 14:58:07 <Terkhen> planetmaker^ 14:58:32 <planetmaker> Terkhen, it is. But it's a newgrf which does that, so not our bug 14:58:43 <Terkhen> it's a bug of opengfx+ industries :) 14:58:51 <planetmaker> oh, he. ok. our ;-) 14:59:02 <Terkhen> :P 14:59:04 <Amis> Hehe 14:59:15 <Terkhen> hmm... 14:59:31 <Terkhen> I suppose "normal" secondary industries don't close as long as they are producing 15:00:02 <Terkhen> and I begin to remember all the problems that andy had while trying to force power plants to behave in FIRS :P 15:00:59 <planetmaker> Terkhen, we probably need to use some kind of persistent storage and a closure callback 15:01:07 <planetmaker> at least that'd be a way ;-) 15:01:15 <Terkhen> hmmmm 15:01:15 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:01:21 <planetmaker> like, no vehicle arrived the last 5 years: yes, you may close 15:01:23 <Terkhen> as long as it is not stockpiling... :/ 15:01:28 <planetmaker> no no :-) 15:01:44 <Terkhen> sounds complicated to code 15:01:47 <Amis> Btw, how does the game pick location for a new industry? 15:02:26 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC40E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:02:33 *** TheVal [~5b2f8abd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 15:02:43 <TheVal> ello ello 15:02:54 <Terkhen> hi TheVal 15:03:33 <planetmaker> IND_CBF_PROD_CB_CARGO_ARRIVE and IND_CBF_MONTLY_PROD_CHANGE and IND_CBF_RANDOM_PROD_CHANGE probably 15:03:39 <planetmaker> hi TheVal 15:03:58 <planetmaker> yes, probably not 100% straight forward 15:04:47 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4B33.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:06:05 <andythenorth> just make the power plant a black hole industry 15:06:08 <andythenorth> it shouldn't close then 15:06:18 <andythenorth> type = 4 iirc 15:06:30 <Amis> That solves one problem and brings in another 15:07:26 <andythenorth> you want closure? 15:07:27 <planetmaker> Terkhen, we should look at manind newgrf ;-) 15:07:40 <planetmaker> andythenorth, for un-serviced power plants, sure 15:07:45 <Amis> ^ 15:07:50 <andythenorth> on what condition? No cargo delivered for 5 years? 15:07:52 <Terkhen> s/look/shamelessly copy/ :) 15:08:00 <Amis> Like that... 15:08:00 <planetmaker> psst, but yes ;-) 15:08:10 <andythenorth> ok 15:08:28 <andythenorth> reset a value to 0 every time that cargo is delivered 15:08:30 <Terkhen> andythenorth: the goal is just that long games don't get completely flooded with power plants 15:08:32 <andythenorth> using the production cb 15:08:39 <andythenorth> increment the value every month 15:08:43 <andythenorth> @calc 5*12 15:08:43 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 60 15:08:57 <andythenorth> when the value == 60, permit closing when monthly or random cb runs 15:09:04 <andythenorth> if value < 60, don't allow closing 15:09:05 <planetmaker> yup ;-) 15:09:05 <andythenorth> easy 15:09:24 <andythenorth> FIRS does it 15:09:35 <andythenorth> the PITA was trying to prevent a wave of closures 15:09:45 <andythenorth> which is not conceptually possible in current spec 15:09:47 <planetmaker> Terkhen, I guess we need just that as a template for many industries 15:10:05 *** alluke [~52b528fd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:10:13 <Terkhen> which ones besides the power plant would need this? 15:10:37 <andythenorth> it's useful for other secondaries imho 15:11:35 <Amis> You could also pitch in a code that prevents it from flooding one area with oil rig when there is a minimal open water :> 15:11:44 <planetmaker> hm, the power plant already is LIFE_TYPE_BLACK_HOLE? 15:11:50 <andythenorth> Amis that's just anti-clustering - easy :) 15:11:56 <Amis> Doo eeeet! 15:11:57 <Amis> :> 15:12:38 *** alluke [~52b528fd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 15:13:05 <andythenorth> cb28 + var 67 or 68 15:13:19 <alluke> pffffffffffffffft 15:13:22 <alluke> what did i miess 15:13:23 <andythenorth> make the distance a parameter 15:13:24 <alluke> miss 15:13:33 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@027c9fee.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 15:13:38 <andythenorth> alluke: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 15:13:48 <alluke> thx 15:15:58 <Terkhen> oil platforms already have similar code for being placed close to water 15:16:11 <Terkhen> but wouldn't setting oil rig as conflicting industry for oil rigs be enough? 15:19:30 <andythenorth> probably 15:23:39 <TheVal> Andy.. you referred to highway truck speeds for those powertrans lorries... How? 15:23:41 <planetmaker> hm... the fruit plantation should change to a bananas plantation. Would fit better than a kind of palm tree ;-) 15:24:36 <TheVal> I mean you'd need to give the truck 2000 hp or more to reach speeds of >70 km/h with a 350 ton load 15:24:57 <Amis> Reality is overrated 15:25:02 <TheVal> lol 15:25:07 <planetmaker> but it is ;-) 15:25:45 <TheVal> Speaking of reality... 20.000 ton coal trains without cargo weight multiplier anyone? 15:25:45 <alluke> planetmaker id like to see your sp game 15:25:59 <TheVal> Daqin-style... 15:26:09 <planetmaker> I play multiplayer nearly exclusively, alluke ;-) 15:26:13 <alluke> me too 15:26:31 <alluke> well join mine and vals mp game for once 15:26:46 <planetmaker> with 64-tile trains? 15:26:47 <TheVal> looks like I have to confirm your MP activity alluke 15:26:53 <alluke> yes :P 15:27:01 <TheVal> Well, maybe not with a 64 tile train 15:27:08 <TheVal> would not hurt to have a decent capacity on them though 15:27:24 <planetmaker> I think I prefer another style ;-) 15:27:30 <TheVal> ~100 tons of coal/ore for 1 realistic modern big-size hopper 15:27:43 <alluke> im running 12 64 tilers at my coal mines iirc 15:27:44 <TheVal> ...that would not make the majority of trains look stupid either 15:27:56 <alluke> 35 ton wagons 15:28:08 <alluke> the biggest non-2cc you can find 15:28:18 <alluke> because 2cc is rubbish mostly 15:28:23 <TheVal> like, for instance, a 4TE10C hauling a 64 ton ore train to top speed easily on flat ground 15:28:38 <TheVal> lol. relax 15:29:00 <TheVal> but the capacity is a problem in the most cases 15:29:01 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:29:27 <TheVal> it's quite annoying to have to use up to 20 cars to even get 800 tons of payload 15:30:13 <planetmaker> that's what the weight multiplier is for. Set it to 10 and you need 3 wagons of 35t load to haul 1050t ;-) 15:30:26 <TheVal> but all you get is unnecessary ballast 15:30:33 <TheVal> instead of that very amount of cargo 15:30:59 <planetmaker> alluke, but you find all my games in the PublicServerArchive ;-) 15:30:59 <Amis> OpenTTD is easy enough without the oversized wagons 15:31:07 <TheVal> it's not the payload that's increased. it's just the weight 15:31:13 <alluke> ive seen them 15:31:15 <TheVal> what would "oversized" wagons make easier? 15:31:16 <andythenorth> how many 800t / month coal mines do you have? 15:31:20 <TheVal> they'd actually be realistic 15:31:29 <TheVal> depends on what you're trying to imitate 15:31:47 <TheVal> if it's the LKAB Kiruna mine I use two dozen regular ore mines 15:32:06 <Amis> Well then first do something with the interest rate because it's not realistic to have 4% as the maximum, what if I want to simulate the falling economy with 10-15% interest rates 15:32:27 <TheVal> should be added - i agree 15:32:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6CC82.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:32:41 <TheVal> but I don't see a reason for why 100 ton hoppers as they really exist would make the game easier 15:32:52 <planetmaker> interest is not interesting. I have paid off the loan after 5 years usually ;-) Of course it depends on settings / newgrfs 15:32:53 <TheVal> you still have to gather that amount of cargo 15:32:57 <Amis> Shorter trains, stations 15:32:58 *** Sacro [~ben@cpc2-mfld9-0-0-cust880.13-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33:01 <alluke> also if they cost as much as irl 15:33:06 <TheVal> is that a problem? 15:33:19 <TheVal> short trains do nothing but look stupid 15:33:29 <Amis> Well... you can't fit a 64 tile train into a valley but you can do the same with a 12 tile train 15:33:34 <TheVal> if they are too light. 15:33:41 <Felicitus> I usually play on luuk, where players usually pay back their loan after 1-2 years 15:33:43 <TheVal> if they have that length for a reason it's fine 15:33:50 <Felicitus> even less in some games (hard settings) 15:34:00 <alluke> luuklands? 15:34:04 <Felicitus> yes 15:34:10 <alluke> lmao 15:34:16 <alluke> they dont use any grfs 15:34:33 <planetmaker> Felicitus, for fun I once joined such goal server some time ago. We owned all players in that game in no time ;-) 15:34:45 <planetmaker> even though we started like 10 years after them 15:34:46 <TheVal> if you don't have the necessary output you don't have a reaosn to use a big freight locomotive 15:34:58 <TheVal> which would actually boost the use of shunters for smaller mines.... 15:35:00 <Felicitus> planetmaker: do you want to have a match ? ;) 15:35:12 <Felicitus> planetmaker: but I play city builder only 15:35:18 <TheVal> smaller standard road vehicles would not hurt either (non-HEQS that is) 15:35:36 <alluke> like lrvs caddy? 15:35:42 <alluke> carrying 2t :P 15:35:43 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 15:35:44 <planetmaker> I've not played there or that, Felicitus 15:35:52 <TheVal> the eGRVTS trucks carry over 55 tons of payload. it's just silly if you consider that for most trucks the total limit is between 40 and 50 tons 15:35:58 <planetmaker> and given the history they won't fancy me joining ;-) 15:36:00 <TheVal> some of the eGRVTS trucks 15:36:27 <planetmaker> (nor do I fancy that actually) 15:36:29 <alluke> theyre too big? 15:36:33 <alluke> maybe in germany 15:36:52 <TheVal> for 1 trailer on a highway you cannot expect to load 55 tons of cargo 15:36:57 <TheVal> just think of the brakes 15:37:10 <TheVal> it'd be outright suicidal 15:37:12 <planetmaker> TheVal, there are trucks with 60t weight 15:37:20 <alluke> in here maximum total mass for truck is 60t 15:37:22 <planetmaker> experimental, but running the roads in the EU 15:37:28 <TheVal> Yeah, but they have 2 trailers 15:37:35 <planetmaker> not afaik 15:37:35 <alluke> nope 15:37:45 <alluke> single truck + traler 15:37:49 <TheVal> well, finland is another story. 15:37:50 <Felicitus> planetmaker: city builder is a variant of a goal game where you need to grow your town to the highest population. depending on the size of your town, you need to deliver a certain amount of goods, coal, pax, food, water, valuables, gold (exact types required differ with climate, of course) 15:38:04 <alluke> and the rest of europe 15:38:07 <Terkhen> trucks are almost as long as a passenger ferry :) 15:38:10 <planetmaker> Felicitus, my highest population town I grew is 1 million ;-) 15:38:14 <TheVal> usually the limit is 40-50 tons of total weight 15:38:21 <TheVal> that's dry weight + cargo 15:38:25 <alluke> in germany 15:38:29 <TheVal> 40 here 15:38:32 <alluke> ye 15:38:35 <TheVal> look at france, the UK, etc 15:38:39 <TheVal> not much different there 15:38:42 <alluke> there too? 15:38:44 <alluke> k 15:38:46 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A81C.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:38:54 <planetmaker> TheVal, they have the 60t test trucks afaik, too 15:39:00 <TheVal> but not 60 tons of payload! 15:39:04 <Felicitus> planetmaker: yes, but you can't compare that to cb. it's limited to 12 years 15:39:05 <planetmaker> no, that not 15:39:10 <alluke> whats the point of limting the mass 15:39:16 <alluke> road damage? 15:39:19 <TheVal> and the 60 ton trucks - like I said - are usually using 2 trailers 15:39:24 <planetmaker> bridges 15:39:30 <planetmaker> road damage 15:39:34 <planetmaker> accident severity 15:39:45 <TheVal> like the bigger of the two Renault Magnums in the hungarian truck set 15:40:17 <TheVal> also, with more realistic power & weight you're getting nearer to where the truck is supposed to be with its performance... 15:40:37 <TheVal> but that's another story 15:40:58 <TheVal> I do not understand why Road Vehicles are allowed a bigger specific capacity than trains 15:41:05 <TheVal> it should be viceversa 15:41:16 <TheVal> as railways are more expensive to set up 15:41:40 <Terkhen> why not? 15:41:47 <Terkhen> viceversa it also works 15:41:54 <TheVal> It's annoying 15:41:57 <TheVal> making trains useless 15:42:18 <TheVal> why would you even run a train if less tiles of RV can carry more cargo? 15:42:43 <TheVal> not to mention the radically much cheaper setup costs 15:42:51 <Terkhen> heh 15:42:53 <planetmaker> not capacity but through-put is important. Which is v * m 15:43:09 <Amis> You know what makes trains useless? The airplane newgrfs where they let the plane carry stuff like... coal... and... oil... 15:43:10 <Terkhen> if you don't like sets with high capacity road vehicles, don't use them 15:43:19 <planetmaker> ^ 15:43:23 *** macee [~macee@dsl4E5C1F65.pool.t-online.hu] has left #openttd [] 15:43:27 <TheVal> On my server such applications of airplanes are not allowed... 15:43:35 <alluke> coal and oil planes are banned in our games 15:43:37 <Terkhen> the game gives possibilities to all NewGRF coders, it is up to the user to choose which ones fit his gamestyle 15:43:38 <TheVal> no that's not the point 15:43:45 <TheVal> high-capacity RVs have a reason to be there 15:44:06 <TheVal> but I don't get how everyone has a problem with hopper cars carrying more than 50 tons of payload 15:44:13 <TheVal> look at all the bloody train sets 15:44:29 <Terkhen> choose a different train set then 15:44:32 <TheVal> practically nowhere you can find a hopper capable of transporting >60 tons of minerals 15:44:36 <Doorslammer> I like this guy, he swears like me 15:44:41 <TheVal> I tried pretty much all of them 15:44:51 <alluke> 2cc is maximun with 60 tons 15:44:56 <alluke> 2nd is canset with 55 15:44:57 <TheVal> yeah 15:45:10 <alluke> then are the others with 30-40 15:45:20 <alluke> and at the bottom the louse 20 ton ukrs 15:45:24 <alluke> lousy* 15:45:28 <TheVal> lol 15:45:35 <TheVal> ukrs2 you mean? 15:45:35 <Amis> In reality they use trains only for high distances... trucks are good for shorter distances and it's fine if it can carry almost 60 tonnes 15:45:37 <alluke> ye 15:45:48 <TheVal> well that's why trains need a huge capacity 15:46:16 <Terkhen> I don't really get your point 15:46:44 <TheVal> it's getting increasingly idiotic when you take the hassle to set up a rail network to then realize you need oversized trains to transport the amount of cargo a small amount of normal trucks could handle with a highway network 15:47:00 <TheVal> I'm not referring to HEQS trucks, but to the normal semis 15:47:08 <Doorslammer> Well... that's how it is in life 15:47:21 <TheVal> Err... not really 15:47:25 <Doorslammer> Seen the amount of railways put out of business thanks to trucks? 15:47:28 <Chris_Booth> bonjour 15:47:42 <TheVal> in real life, hopper cars have a higher capacity than trailers of trucks covering large distances 15:48:06 <TheVal> as much as 100 tons per hopper car 15:48:27 <Chris_Booth> TheVal this is not real life 15:48:31 <TheVal> while the average truck carries 25-40 tons 15:48:33 <Chris_Booth> This is Spata 15:48:36 <TheVal> hahaha 15:48:41 <Doorslammer> So why have a go at the trucks when the trains need more capacity? 15:49:22 <Chris_Booth> also no openttd loco could pull a 100 ton wagon 15:49:24 <TheVal> why does this game have trains at all if they're made obsolete by unrealistic RVs and artificial limitations anyway? 15:49:29 <TheVal> ROFL 15:49:30 <TheVal> haha 15:49:41 <TheVal> ever tried the norwegian train set? 15:49:43 <Terkhen> I still don't see the point 15:49:48 <TheVal> or the russian and american set 15:49:48 <alluke> chris 15:49:53 <Chris_Booth> TheVal what RVs make trains useless? 15:49:55 <alluke> ever heard of coupling or newgrfs? 15:49:58 <Eddi|zuHause> "realistic" trucks have a huge advantage at small-quantity point-to-point transport 15:49:58 <TheVal> all I am asking for is more capacity for train cars 15:50:03 <TheVal> to realistic levels 15:50:07 <Eddi|zuHause> but most TTD industries produce large quantities 15:50:13 <Terkhen> in my experience, road vehicles never can achieve the capacity of trains 15:50:28 <Terkhen> TheVal: there are tools to do that 15:50:29 <Chris_Booth> to many noobs here saying stupid things 15:50:38 <TheVal> well, I have eGRVTS, HTS and some other RV sets in 15:50:55 <TheVal> to increase the capacity of all freight cars of NewGRF sets to realistic levels? 15:50:59 <Chris_Booth> TheVal: want big wagons look for 2cc train set on bananas 15:51:04 <Chris_Booth> they have stupid huge wagons 15:51:05 <TheVal> i have it 15:51:10 <TheVal> they're still too small 15:51:21 <Chris_Booth> they are the largest I know of 15:51:28 <Chris_Booth> 100tonnes a wagon 15:51:32 <TheVal> the train that derailed at San bernadino in 1989 had hoppers loaded with 100 tons each 15:51:33 <TheVal> errr 15:51:34 <andythenorth> egrvts is too big 15:51:37 <Terkhen> write a feature request for 2cc or whatever set you are interested in 15:51:38 <TheVal> the larges 2cc hoppers carry 60 tons 15:51:42 <Terkhen> it is not really an OpenTTD issue 15:51:52 <Terkhen> but a NewGRF issue 15:52:06 <TheVal> True under that aspect... 15:52:15 <Amis> Multiply every number with 2 in your mind and your are set 15:52:23 <TheVal> lol 15:52:30 <TheVal> that ain't what I am looking for 15:52:36 <alluke> its not the mass of train 15:52:41 <Amis> Heck it's still a solution 15:52:45 <alluke> its how much stuff the train contains 15:52:49 *** macee [~macee@dsl4E5C1F65.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 15:52:50 <TheVal> realistic capacity causing realistic weight 15:52:54 <TheVal> is what I want 15:52:58 <Chris_Booth> or TheVal you could go buy your self a real train 15:53:04 <TheVal> lol 15:53:05 <Chris_Booth> and not play openttd XD 15:53:13 <alluke> guess which is cheaper 15:53:34 <Terkhen> both openttd and complaining are free :) 15:53:35 * andythenorth is baffled 15:53:45 <andythenorth> what was the question? 15:53:58 <Doorslammer> I still don't know 15:54:02 <alluke> log? ;) 15:54:03 <TheVal> Too low capacities of the cars of trains 15:54:12 <Chris_Booth> they are not TheVal 15:54:14 <TheVal> NewGRF sets in particular 15:54:22 <Chris_Booth> they are not 15:54:31 <TheVal> Compared to the real levels they are wrong! 15:54:36 <Chris_Booth> so 15:54:40 <Terkhen> TheVal: if none of the hundreds of NewGRF sets suits your gamestyle, write your own; if you already tried most of them there is nothing we can do to help you, really 15:54:46 <alluke> i think the finnish set will be first trainset with real-life data 15:54:53 <Doorslammer> Think you'll find when a 100 ton hopper is full, it's not necessarily taken on 100 ton 15:54:54 <Chris_Booth> you are telling me a wagon that is 300miles long is correct? 15:54:56 <Belugas> [11:54] <TheVal> Compared to the real levels they are wrong! <--- BOOO!!!!! 15:55:00 <TheVal> and to make things even worse, most NewGRFs for RVs have too high capacities 15:55:04 <Belugas> Who cares!!!! 15:55:04 <Amis> TheVal, a top notch coal mine in OpenTTD can mine about 15000 tonnes a year, now in real life they can mine half a million. As you can see all you have to do is use the weight multiplier since no value has connection with reality 15:55:13 <TheVal> lol 15:55:17 <Terkhen> you might also want to ask yourself why none of the set does this 15:55:22 <Terkhen> sets* 15:55:36 <TheVal> that's why you need to place several mines next to each other if you want to imitate a gigantic mine like that of LKAB in Kiruna 15:55:58 <Belugas> And ask yourself why a bridge takes less than a day to be built in the game, while it can take years in real life!!! 15:56:01 <andythenorth> 15,000t from an openttd mine? 15:56:04 <andythenorth> umm 15:56:07 <Chris_Booth> TheVal this a a game not a simulator 15:56:08 <andythenorth> unlikely 15:56:14 <Chris_Booth> 2,000 tonnes 15:56:18 <Amis> You would have to place 200 mines next to each other to be able to campare to real life 15:56:19 <andythenorth> more likely 15:56:30 <alluke> OpenTTD is an open source simulation game based upon Transport Tycoon Deluxe 15:56:32 <TheVal> but that still doesn't explain why the capacities of the cars of trains are artificially lowered 15:56:37 <alluke> SIMULATION 15:56:41 <Terkhen> meh 15:56:41 <alluke> reads in the main page 15:56:41 <Chris_Booth> actualt 2225 is max for mine IIRC 15:56:49 <Terkhen> where does it say that it tries to simulate reality? 15:56:51 <andythenorth> about that 15:56:52 <TheVal> not for NewGRFs.... 15:56:55 <alluke> or will planetmaker change that now? :P 15:56:59 <Doorslammer> I got a Chaney Jubilee with a 2,600t coal train in Poland right now <--- Never actually happened... 15:57:04 <Terkhen> as I already said, a truck is almost as long as a passenger ferry 15:57:06 <TheVal> let me load up my NewGRF list of my current game 15:57:09 <andythenorth> approx 2048 is my guess for a ttd mine 15:57:14 <andythenorth> FIRS will be about the sam 15:57:18 <andythenorth> e 15:57:24 <TheVal> I am running ECS 15:57:25 <Terkhen> a single gold mine produces as much gold as the whole real world, monthly 15:57:31 <Terkhen> the game does not try to be realistic 15:57:36 <andythenorth> ah 15:57:43 <Chris_Booth> ECS is a swear work 15:57:46 <TheVal> lol 15:57:50 <alluke> how 15:57:54 <TheVal> depends on your viewpoint 15:57:58 <Chris_Booth> we like FIRS here 15:58:00 <TheVal> for me it's the rescue 15:58:07 <alluke> how much did andy pay you? :P 15:58:15 <Chris_Booth> nothing 15:58:21 <TheVal> no need to adapt to other people's opinions - but the decision should be left to the player 15:58:29 <andythenorth> Chris_Booth: it's not a competition :P 15:58:39 <TheVal> especially when it comes to capacities 15:58:42 <Chris_Booth> if it was FIRS would win :D 15:58:43 <alluke> then why do you leave out ecs support from heqs? 15:58:47 <andythenorth> TheVal: there's no entry fee to coding newgrfs 15:58:50 <andythenorth> Chris_Booth: unhelpful 15:58:56 <TheVal> Certainly... 15:58:57 <Terkhen> lol 15:59:04 <andythenorth> alluke: raise a ticket for the lack of ECS support 15:59:10 <andythenorth> with details of what's missing 15:59:11 <TheVal> but creating duplicates is not exactly the most senseful idea in history either, is it? 15:59:12 <Chris_Booth> alluke probably to much work to maintain 15:59:13 <alluke> okay 15:59:17 <alluke> chris 15:59:25 <alluke> still firs will have full support 15:59:29 <alluke> and it isnt even finished 15:59:30 <TheVal> slight adjustments through parameters would already address this issue perfectly 15:59:31 <Amis> There is one change in the later OpenTTDs, you can no longer disable newgrfs while in game, why is that? 15:59:40 <Chris_Booth> ECS is less playable 15:59:44 <Chris_Booth> with mines closing 15:59:46 <TheVal> you can if you hack the openttd.cfg file 15:59:50 <Chris_Booth> for no reason 15:59:53 <alluke> that can be turned off by parameter 15:59:56 <TheVal> dev tools or something to 1 15:59:56 <Amis> I see 16:00:05 *** macee [~macee@dsl4E5C1F65.pool.t-online.hu] has left #openttd [] 16:00:05 <TheVal> or yes lol 16:00:45 <alluke> andy how do i put new issue there 16:00:54 <Chris_Booth> so TheVal you want massive wagons that will only move once every 3 or 4 years? 16:01:04 <alluke> cant find the button :/ 16:01:10 <Chris_Booth> + 16:01:19 <TheVal> ahem... if you don't use too many that will not be the case 16:01:25 <TheVal> you only need trains for large amounts of cargo 16:01:32 <andythenorth> alluke: what makes you think FIRS will have full support? 16:01:39 <Doorslammer> Use trucks then 16:01:53 <Chris_Booth> I am leaving the argument 16:01:59 <Chris_Booth> its just going arround in circles 16:01:59 <alluke> hmm 16:02:03 <alluke> youre the author? :P 16:02:05 <TheVal> 1 moment 16:02:05 <TheVal> lol 16:03:01 <andythenorth> TheVal: alluke there's no entry fee for coding grfs 16:03:09 <andythenorth> if you don't like current capacity, fix it 16:03:13 <andythenorth> by writing your own grf 16:03:20 <Terkhen> you are actually accusing him of only supporting his own stuff and actively denying support to other sets? 16:03:39 <Chris_Booth> most current GRF have the source released so you can compile your own 16:04:03 <alluke> on mac? 16:04:15 <TheVal> my point for trains with realistic capacities is this; if 1 industry is not enough to cause a realistic output, you concentrate them artificially! http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/2710/minesn.jpg 16:04:18 <Chris_Booth> if you know what you are doing 16:04:21 <Chris_Booth> yes on a mac 16:04:22 <Terkhen> some of the most active NewGRF developers use mac 16:05:07 <alluke> okay 16:05:13 <andythenorth> omg no wtf there is no way you can use a mac 16:05:20 <Chris_Booth> and atleast one openttd coop dev uses a mac 16:05:32 <andythenorth> get a real os 16:05:43 <Chris_Booth> like red hat andythenorth ? 16:05:49 * andythenorth removes mac support from FIRS, HEQS, CHIPS and FISH 16:05:50 <TheVal> Lazyness vs Linux.... 16:06:05 <Chris_Booth> mac == bank robery 16:06:12 <Chris_Booth> windows == depression 16:06:42 <Doorslammer> We've lost the point a bit 16:06:47 <TheVal> mac = if you remember to sell it before it outdates completely (eg after 3 years) you still get a reasonable amount of money for it 16:07:11 * andythenorth suspects a forthcoming godwin situation 16:07:19 <andythenorth> it's usually a flowchart 16:07:31 <Chris_Booth> I love flow chart 16:07:36 <Chris_Booth> and all graphs 16:07:38 <Doorslammer> Now if Hitler owned a Mac... 16:07:40 <andythenorth> mac vs. others || vi vs. emacs ==> godwin 16:07:40 <TheVal> which is what will happen to my aluminium unibody MacBook this winter possibly... I can still expect around 2/3 of the original value 16:07:45 <Chris_Booth> I use them to bore people at work all the time 16:07:59 * andythenorth will do something more useful than this 16:08:04 <TheVal> lol 16:08:05 <Chris_Booth> TheVal: are you mad 16:08:07 <Terkhen> good idea andythenorth :) 16:08:24 <Terkhen> I should too, but I can't continue working until a long compilation finishes 16:08:25 <TheVal> it will be totally refurbished by then 16:08:26 <Chris_Booth> no one want second hand laptop 16:08:32 <Doorslammer> So what was the problem again? 16:08:33 <andythenorth> what an increasingly epic waste of time 16:08:38 <Chris_Booth> yes 16:08:45 <andythenorth> can someone kick some other people please 16:08:46 <Chris_Booth> just someone that wanted a chat 16:08:51 <andythenorth> the candidates should be obvious 16:09:12 <TheVal> ah whatever. going to put up my server. talk to you later ;-) 16:09:58 <andythenorth> TheVal: capacity is solvable - if you wanted to... 16:10:53 <TheVal> ....code and create substitute / alternative / space wasting sets? 16:11:00 <Terkhen> yes 16:11:09 <Doorslammer> Bingo 16:11:11 <TheVal> I don't get what the big deal with adding a parameter is. 16:11:17 <TheVal> that's all that's needed 16:11:18 <Terkhen> code the parameter then 16:11:26 <Terkhen> many sets are open source, you can contribute patches to them 16:12:02 <TheVal> will try when I have the free time to learn how to code 16:12:07 <andythenorth> TheVal: the big deal is that the people who maintain NARS 2 and UKRS aren't interested in your request :) 16:12:14 <andythenorth> there's not much you can do about that 16:12:21 <andythenorth> and none of them are here right now 16:12:25 <Doorslammer> Longer trains maybe 16:12:55 <TheVal> good attempt Doorslammer. that is the problem 16:13:10 *** alluke [~52b528fd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:13:19 *** alluke [~52b528fd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 16:13:26 <TheVal> OTTD limit: 64 tiles 16:13:36 *** KOPOBA [~xren@95.84.37.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:13:47 <TheVal> current real limit: 20000 tons for a coal train (China; Daqin line) 16:13:54 <Doorslammer> Surely you don't need it that long? 16:14:04 <Doorslammer> Seems pointless 16:14:11 <TheVal> you reach the tile limit before the weight limit if you use a decent payload to weight ratio 16:14:24 <TheVal> => multiplier = 1 16:14:36 * andythenorth suspects this might be a losing battle 16:14:43 <andythenorth> what's the most popular newgrf on bananas? 16:14:55 <andythenorth> hmm 16:14:59 <andythenorth> it changed actually 16:15:01 <alluke> is there a way to sort em like that 16:15:03 <andythenorth> but it used to be 'very large ships' 16:15:08 <andythenorth> http://bananas.openttd.org/en/newgrf/ 16:15:25 <andythenorth> very large ships has *fricking stupid* capacities 16:15:32 <andythenorth> yet it's one of the most downloaded grfs 16:15:42 <alluke> hahhah 16:15:57 <alluke> its kinda stupid imo 16:16:35 <TheVal> well... it did make sense in terms of realism. did, however mean that you need several major trains to fill a ship 16:17:05 <TheVal> I would possibly use it if they weren't optically outdated that badly 16:17:32 <Amis> Details... 16:17:37 <TheVal> would also clean up the shipping routes ;-) 16:17:42 <alluke> add-on grf for fish? :P 16:17:55 <alluke> btw 16:17:56 *** KOPOBA [~xren@pppoe-88-147-232-38.san.ru] has joined #openttd 16:17:57 <TheVal> negative. whatever 16:18:09 <andythenorth> it's dumb 16:18:16 <alluke> how can vehicle ferries carry coal? 16:18:21 <alluke> in trucks? 16:18:42 <andythenorth> yarp 16:18:44 <TheVal> of course it is. but so is having 20 coasters travelling between 2 ports at the same time 16:18:51 <Doorslammer> Weeeell... it could be converted? Pointles I know, but silly things occur on this planet 16:18:51 <alluke> just thought :D 16:18:57 <alluke> dont take it personally 16:19:23 <TheVal> in reality you have major piles (optical illusion possible through ISR) next to the docks 16:19:35 <Amis> "planet".... the earth is flat according to OpenTTD and world does end at the edges 16:19:53 <TheVal> ships do not really run for 200 tons of coal unless they're tiny 16:20:11 <andythenorth> ho 16:20:14 <andythenorth> in reality... 16:20:20 <andythenorth> - the world is not 256 colours 16:20:24 <Amis> ^ 16:20:27 <andythenorth> - there isn't a giant arrow floating over the world 16:20:33 <andythenorth> - the world does not have gridlines 16:20:34 <TheVal> OTTD is an Industrial Simulation 16:20:37 <andythenorth> - the world has perspective 16:20:50 <andythenorth> - 64 tile trains cannot disappear into a 1 tile depot 16:20:57 <TheVal> / economiy simulation 16:20:59 <Felicitus> andythenorth: I disagree. I have seen the giant arrow multiple times, especially when drunk 16:21:00 <TheVal> economy* 16:21:01 <andythenorth> it is not permanent daylight 16:21:10 <TheVal> well what do we have the MLSS depots for... 16:21:11 <andythenorth> - road vehicles do not drive through each other 16:21:17 <alluke> andy 16:21:17 <andythenorth> - ships do not drive through each other 16:21:23 <alluke> the gridlines can be hidden :P 16:21:23 <Doorslammer> The towns have their names hovering in the centre, though 16:22:03 <Doorslammer> And road vehicles do drive through each other, though I suspect that's an Australian custom of sorts 16:22:10 <Terkhen> andythenorth: better go back to that productive work you mentioned earlier :P 16:22:12 <Amis> Question related: why do some trucks randomly go over each other when waiting behind eachother? 16:22:18 <andythenorth> quantum effect 16:22:26 <andythenorth> I wondered that for many years 16:22:34 <Amis> It really messes up stuff 16:22:36 <andythenorth> they can tunnel out of a roadblock :P 16:22:53 <Terkhen> Amis: without that you would get impossible to solve roadblocks 16:23:13 <andythenorth> total gridlock 16:23:13 <Amis> They can park at the first spot of a long station and block everybody behind em till they are loaded 16:23:15 <andythenorth> I've done it 16:23:17 <TheVal> especially when no railroad crossings have been built yet 16:23:26 <Terkhen> and either nobody worked in a better solution or there is not a better solution 16:24:12 <Doorslammer> Especially in TTO, when U turn buttons didn't exist 16:24:32 <Doorslammer> Used to have to wait for months to pass before something happened 16:25:40 <alluke> does anyone know a reason for shrinking cities? 16:26:35 <TheVal> +1 to that question... 16:26:46 <Doorslammer> Might need to change your prescription 16:27:50 <TheVal> lol 16:28:25 <andythenorth> alluke: what date? 16:28:41 <TheVal> >2100 16:28:47 <andythenorth> hmm 16:28:49 <andythenorth> don't know 16:28:52 <TheVal> it's a problem with a city in our current savegame 16:28:59 <TheVal> the city went from 60k inhabitants to 6k 16:29:00 <andythenorth> I think there's a bug prior to about 1930 16:29:10 <TheVal> within around 140 years 16:29:11 <andythenorth> did you start providing good service to the city? 16:29:17 <Amis> TheVal: global warming 16:29:20 <alluke> yes 16:29:25 <TheVal> 3 companies are providing service 16:29:25 <V453000> how many stations do you have in the city 16:29:32 <V453000> how large is the city 16:29:36 <TheVal> 1 moment - screenshot incoming 16:29:38 <alluke> we have airports and train and bs station in there 16:29:38 <V453000> does it have enough space to grow? :) 16:29:40 <TheVal> 6000 inhabitants remaining 16:29:50 <TheVal> there was... 16:29:56 <TheVal> depending on the direction 16:29:58 <andythenorth> I think there's a bug with cities 16:30:06 <V453000> btw towns do not shrink after reaching whatever date 16:30:12 <Amis> I also noticed this strange behaviour, the game starts replacing the building with small village houses 16:30:21 <andythenorth> they rebuild because they're getting good service, but they rebuild with smaller houses 16:30:33 <andythenorth> definitely happens when playing 18xx games 16:30:40 <V453000> because the area is too far from city center 16:31:25 <TheVal> regarding the screenie that's about to follow - several villages were funded around the shrinking city in a hope to improve service 16:31:47 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-107-36.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:33:28 <andythenorth> I'm pretty certain there is / was a bug there 16:33:35 <V453000> I believe that 16:33:59 <TheVal> Where "kiirava" and "garching" now are, the city at the coast used to have houses and roads. http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7328/currently.jpg 16:34:03 <andythenorth> I discussed it with frosch at some length 16:34:21 <andythenorth> the buildings went away? 16:34:25 <TheVal> Correct 16:34:30 <andythenorth> or large ones replaced by small ones? 16:34:45 <TheVal> gaps opened in the city 16:34:49 <andythenorth> hmm 16:34:51 <andythenorth> different bug 16:34:51 <TheVal> first to smaller houses 16:34:54 <TheVal> eventually disappearing 16:34:55 <andythenorth> MP game? 16:34:57 <TheVal> Yes 16:35:04 <TheVal> 4-5 companies 16:35:05 <andythenorth> any griefers? 16:35:06 <V453000> only 2 stations in centrer of the town, building spread out 16:35:29 <V453000> cant say I would expect it to be this empty, but this isnt proper service :) 16:35:46 <TheVal> It used to be bigger... 16:35:55 <TheVal> and hence better connected 16:36:21 <TheVal> speaking of griefers... you mean trolls? 16:37:01 <TheVal> My NewGRF list is so insanely complicated that only people I helped with were able to join. none of the players of this game are childish enough to destroy houses intentionally at such a scale 16:39:21 <V453000> hm, couldnt ECS do something? 16:40:26 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:40:34 <planetmaker> TheVal, use NewGRFs available from online content and you have no issues with newgrf lists. 16:41:16 <V453000> and less awesome newgrfs ;( 16:42:16 <alluke> ill think i power up some cities with tind turbines and sac's power poles 16:42:20 <alluke> wind* 16:42:48 <Amis> Eh... if this power-plant disappearing is really OpenGFX+ realted it must be fixed immediately D: All I'm doing is refunding the power plants, hehh 16:42:50 <V453000> btw what house is it next to Marteria Ost? the tall skyscraper in front of the green TTRS one (from which newGRF is it?) 16:43:33 * andythenorth didn't know towns destroyed buildings and didn't replace them 16:43:34 <alluke> its burj-al-arab 16:43:48 <alluke> found somewhere in forums 16:43:57 <V453000> eh :) 16:44:10 <alluke> last stage hq 16:44:11 <V453000> andythenorth: I didnt know either 16:44:18 <V453000> oh, an HQ? :D 16:44:21 <alluke> yep 16:44:27 <V453000> looks nice 16:44:28 <TheVal> ah sorry I was afk for a moment 16:44:36 <V453000> but well, doesnt look HQ-like :) 16:44:50 <TheVal> yep it's used as a HQ 16:44:55 <andythenorth> alluke: I'll check the HEQS - ECS issue 16:45:11 <andythenorth> I'm surprised by limestone 16:45:22 <V453000> doesnt ECS somehow influence growth of towns? 16:45:52 <andythenorth> alluke: you need to specify which liquid cargos don't refit 16:46:12 <andythenorth> and also specify the farm cargos 16:47:15 <alluke> ok 16:47:33 <alluke> doh 16:47:36 <alluke> how do i edit it 16:47:36 <andythenorth> HEQS farm tractors + trams have the problem? Other vehicles don't? 16:47:44 <andythenorth> 'update' 16:48:26 * andythenorth really hates the way of setting classes 16:48:27 <TheVal> I would likely use online content-only grfs, but the content downloader is not complete... and additionally, there's a detail about the canadian train set I dislike nowadays, a reason for which I am sticking with v0.3c 16:48:29 <alluke> it opens new box 16:48:41 <andythenorth> the mask in / mask out thing is basically bollocks isn't it 16:49:20 <alluke> is there a way to edit the old text? 16:49:23 <alluke> or must i add new 16:50:39 <andythenorth> if you can't use update, add a comment 16:50:46 <alluke> k 16:52:30 <alluke> the update button opens new box 16:52:32 <alluke> w/e 16:53:18 <TheVal> @alluke your iChat ain't quite open right now is it? 16:53:45 <alluke> oops 16:53:50 <alluke> aim fails 16:53:53 <alluke> cant connect 16:57:55 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 17:01:49 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009d6b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:02:11 <andythenorth> alluke: just to be clear - the issue is which cargo graphics are used? 17:03:21 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:05:01 <alluke> yeah 17:05:10 <alluke> but i dont want to lay too much work on you 17:05:24 *** ZirconiumX [561b9caa@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 17:06:09 <alluke> if i was real ass you would have to draw new graphics for many cargos 17:06:18 <ZirconiumX> hello all 17:07:09 <alluke> like wool baled on flatbed, same for lumber, cars/tractors on flatbed, fruits in open wagon, etc 17:07:19 <andythenorth> yeah - and no 17:07:27 <alluke> ye its too much 17:07:33 <andythenorth> lumber sprites exist 17:07:39 <andythenorth> the rest go covered 17:07:53 <alluke> ye i remember seeing it on the forum 17:08:02 <alluke> why didnt you include it 17:08:06 <andythenorth> cargo graphics are over-rated 17:08:11 <alluke> k 17:08:14 <andythenorth> those who rate them most highly never release very much :P 17:08:22 <alluke> ye 17:08:35 <alluke> hm maybe just delete it? 17:08:38 <alluke> ill put on new 17:08:55 <andythenorth> the issues are valid 17:09:01 <andythenorth> they'll probably get fixed sometime 17:09:06 <alluke> ye 17:09:08 <andythenorth> I'm happy to support ECS and other sets 17:09:12 <alluke> but id clean it up a bit 17:09:13 <andythenorth> I'm just not going to do the testing 17:09:37 <alluke> should dyes be carried in tanker or as paint cans in a box? 17:09:47 <andythenorth> I don't care either way 17:09:51 <andythenorth> ask george 17:09:58 <alluke> k 17:10:07 <alluke> im nice and let it be the box 17:11:27 <Amis> Excuse my confusing, but... what the heck are lickable pixels? 17:12:15 <ZirconiumX> it's a short way of saying 'that's good' or 'I like it' 17:13:00 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:13:05 <alluke> ok 17:13:14 <alluke> the list got shortened radically 17:13:14 <Doorslammer> Lick it and find out 17:13:29 <alluke> its now just change to 4 already existing sprite 17:13:30 <Doorslammer> The schnozzberries taste like schnozzberries! 17:13:46 <ZirconiumX> Doorslammer: it taste just like chicken 17:14:08 <andythenorth> Amis: I just copied it from steve jobs 17:14:09 <Doorslammer> Well that's not very special now, is it? 17:14:12 <andythenorth> it's not original 17:14:18 <Doorslammer> Give me a call when it tastes like a peanut M&M 17:14:55 <ZirconiumX> Doorslammer: nope - it's venison now 17:15:06 <alluke> andy are you able to delete or clear my current list? 17:15:41 <alluke> because itll look really stupid if i now put the changes under it 17:16:49 <Amis> developer = 1, this option in the CFG should let me change newgrfs during game? 17:17:02 <alluke> yes 17:17:04 <andythenorth> alluke: do you want me to bounce the ticket? You can write a new one 17:17:09 <Amis> :/ 17:17:19 <alluke> bounce = delete? 17:17:22 <alluke> if so, yes 17:17:29 <Amis> Are there any CFGs beside the one in the user's folder? 17:18:17 <andythenorth> alluke: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2568 17:18:56 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:27 <alluke> dun 17:19:53 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:20:42 <Terkhen> Amis: no 17:20:59 <Terkhen> I don't remember the name of the setting, but it is not "developer" 17:22:26 <alluke> ill see 17:22:38 <andythenorth> http://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_Debugging 17:22:46 *** TheVal [~5b2f8abd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:22:57 <andythenorth> but don't report bugs that are caused by adding / removing grfs 17:23:03 <alluke> newgrf_developer_tools = true 17:23:08 <alluke> that does the trick 17:23:15 <andythenorth> misreported bugs may result in flames 17:23:38 <ZirconiumX> and/or flaming computers 17:26:28 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:38 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 17:33:06 <andythenorth> hmm 17:33:21 <andythenorth> multi-tile houses (such as stadiums) can rebuild, leaving empty tiles in town... 17:33:35 <andythenorth> that might explain that issue from earlier 17:37:24 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:39:53 * andythenorth resumes YACD game 17:40:17 <ZirconiumX> Hello Zuu 17:40:17 * andythenorth might need some extra ships in FISH :P 17:40:32 * andythenorth would like a pony: easier setting of timetables 17:40:33 <Zuu> andythenorth: playing a YACD game sounds fun. 17:40:39 <andythenorth> it seems to be so far 17:40:40 <Zuu> Hello ZirconiumX 17:40:42 <andythenorth> maybe it's just new :) 17:41:22 * ZirconiumX notices AHMRAATNU 17:42:00 <ZirconiumX> AHMRAATNU How many recursive acronyms andy the north uses 17:42:12 <andythenorth> only when they're easy to say :P 17:43:23 <ZirconiumX> A-HM-RAT-NU - see easy to say 17:43:51 <Zuu> It's also useful if the acronym gives an idea of what kind of set it is. 17:44:48 <ZirconiumX> besides - FISH should be FIS - FIS Is Ships - rather than FISH Is SHips 17:45:22 <Terkhen> why? 17:56:28 <Amis> Oh woah... I'm playing OpenTTD for a while and now is the first time I ever see an industry placed at sea level at generating 18:01:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there is the 24h-clock patch which has some timetabling stuff 18:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not perfect 18:01:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but it helps quite a bit 18:06:17 <alluke> we need ponies in ottd 18:06:20 <alluke> coded as planes 18:06:31 <SmatZ> hahaha 18:06:40 <SmatZ> flying ponies <3 18:06:47 <ZirconiumX> I once had a thought 18:06:52 <alluke> in all colors of rainbow 18:06:53 <SmatZ> with rainbow behind them 18:06:56 <alluke> yes 18:06:58 <SmatZ> :) 18:07:10 <alluke> some could be rvs 18:07:23 <ZirconiumX> santa was not getting enough income - so he hired himself out - sleigh and reindeer and all 18:08:04 <ZirconiumX> the only difference from christmas was the fairy light lamp saying 'Santa for hire' 18:21:04 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:05 * Zuu would like to see auto-binaries of YACD on a finger-enabled server 18:24:04 *** Ruudjah [~opera@86.93.109.194] has joined #openttd 18:24:24 *** alluke [~52b528fd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:25:43 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:25:43 * Rubidium too ;) 18:25:58 <Terkhen> :) 18:27:40 <andythenorth> YACD reminds me of reading this book http://www.amazon.com/Nexus-Worlds-Groundbreaking-Theory-Networks/dp/0393324427/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1303842409&sr=1-3 18:28:47 <ZirconiumX> What is YACD 18:28:57 * Zuu is trying to use hg to fetch OpenTTD for the first time 18:28:58 <ZirconiumX> yes - I know - I'm not with the times 18:29:17 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:29:19 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=54253 18:29:20 <Zuu> hmm, just realized I forgot to specify which version to get. 18:31:07 <Zuu> but a "revert" should probably get me set 18:31:26 *** Doorslammer [770b0359@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 18:32:18 <andythenorth> will a small world network be the best? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-world_networks 18:32:24 <andythenorth> or a lattice? 18:32:32 <andythenorth> or one single super hub connecting all other nodes? 18:35:06 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 18:37:26 *** ZirconiumX [561b9caa@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 18:44:47 <Zuu> In OpenTTD I don't think the superhub will be that much benefital. 18:46:07 <Zuu> For IRL public transport system you usually calcualte experienced wait cost/time as 2 * actual wait time. In OpenTTD this cost is zero. 18:46:28 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.153.193.224] has joined #openttd 18:46:40 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 18:47:16 <Zuu> (this excludes the possible extra travel distance for going via a hub) 18:47:30 <andythenorth> I think a superhub will also be congested :D 18:47:39 <andythenorth> and vulnerable to breakdowns 18:49:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you can reasonably pull of a super-hub in a large map (>=512^2) 18:49:36 <SmatZ> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon_number#Bacon_numbers bacon <3 but the page is about something very different than one would expect :( 18:50:12 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has joined #openttd 18:50:31 * andythenorth wants a link graph 18:50:40 <andythenorth> dunno what it would look like 18:50:56 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has quit [] 18:51:07 <andythenorth> maybe a highlight overlay for routes with an excessive number of hops 18:52:14 *** Adambean` [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 18:53:15 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Werrakirchen%20Transport,%2018.%20Jan%201934.png <-- this is my last CargoDist network 18:53:51 <andythenorth> what does the link graph represent in that case? 18:54:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the lines are the passanger connections, the blue squares are the passenger production 18:54:32 <andythenorth> ok 18:54:44 <andythenorth> another interesting aspect 18:54:59 <andythenorth> small towns - or just stations in the middle of nowhere - can become significant transfer hubs :) 18:55:07 *** KouDy [~koudy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has joined #openttd 18:55:11 * andythenorth is probably a bit too excited about YACD :P 18:55:16 <Eddi|zuHause> there are (or were, in that version) also graphs about capacity and usage 18:55:25 * andythenorth never played cargodist for a variety of reasons 18:55:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but they were very difficult to read and cluttered the view 18:56:30 <Eddi|zuHause> the difference between YACDest and CargoDist will only be relevant in the early game. as soon as you have a significant network, they will probably turn out with similar effects 18:57:32 <Rubidium> if you'd be covering the towns well enough that is 18:59:38 <Eddi|zuHause> this map-graph was originally from PaxDest (3?), then adapted by CargoDest and later CargoDist 19:00:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess it would be fairly easy to also integrate it into YACDest 19:00:37 <Rubidium> I'm still not sure what concept to use: destinations or distribution 19:00:45 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.73.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:09 <Eddi|zuHause> let's see how it turns out during testing, the YACDest patch is fairly young ;) 19:01:13 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has joined #openttd 19:01:18 <andythenorth> I am ill-equipped to comment - I haven't played cargodist 19:01:34 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.73.122] has joined #openttd 19:01:41 <andythenorth> YACD appeals to me more instinctively 19:01:50 <andythenorth> I want reasons to build networks to places 19:01:59 <andythenorth> cargodist won't provide that AFAIK :) 19:02:27 <Eddi|zuHause> there are a few reasons, but they don't punch you in the face :p 19:03:11 *** KouDy [~koudy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:05:36 <Ruudjah> Towns don't build buildings on all types of tiles, do they? Specifically, tiles diagonally both vertically and horzintally? 19:05:44 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:07:03 <Wolf01> 'night 19:07:06 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host41-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 19:07:13 <michi_cc> I fear a lack of updates to andy NewGRFs for the next days :) 19:07:28 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.73.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:08:16 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.73.122] has joined #openttd 19:08:39 <Eddi|zuHause> do any of the coop-savegames stand a chance with YACDest? 19:09:29 <SmatZ> not sure 19:09:39 <__ln__> http://www.riemurasia.net/jylppy/media.php?id=80650 (partially swedish, with english subtitles) (not suitable for MSDN subscribers) 19:09:55 <SmatZ> coop games usually have one destination industry for all cargo of one type 19:10:09 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.73.122] has quit [] 19:10:16 <SmatZ> if the cargo was forcefully distributed to other industries, the cargo wouldn't be accepted 19:10:18 <SmatZ> so, no 19:10:28 <SmatZ> coop is probably not compatible with yacd 19:13:21 <michi_cc> Depends on whether there really is only one suitable acceptor or just one served. 19:14:43 <michi_cc> But even if there are two possible accepting industries, you'll get more than half of the cargo as industries with higher production output get a higher destination weight. 19:15:14 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:15:35 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has joined #openttd 19:18:32 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 19:19:25 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:20:03 <andythenorth> michi_cc: it is pretty addictive so far ;) 19:20:58 <Zuu> Is there any "make bundle" for systems without gcc? 19:21:16 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:21:16 <Zuu> ./configure complains that I don't have gcc. 19:21:34 <SmatZ> Zuu: how do you compile without gcc? 19:21:44 <Zuu> msvc 19:21:47 <SmatZ> hmm 19:22:05 <SmatZ> I don't think you are supposed to run ./configure when you are using MSVC 19:22:09 <SmatZ> sorry, I don't know 19:23:32 <michi_cc> Zuu: Makefile.msvc, instructions are at the start of the file 19:31:13 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-167-149.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:42:44 <andythenorth> starting a new mini-network isolated from the main network results in very low PAX numbers 19:44:22 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:48:50 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 19:50:35 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:50:42 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has joined #openttd 19:52:06 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.3.63] has joined #openttd 19:53:07 <michi_cc> andythenorth: What did you connect? Local network or several towns? Did you check the town/industry window if you actually get most of the possible cargo? 19:53:24 <andythenorth> I have a main network 19:53:41 <andythenorth> to which I've been adding nodes 19:53:50 <andythenorth> then I connected a few nodes locally, but not to the main network 19:54:09 <nicfer> what's the most minimalist trainset existing for openttd? 19:54:37 <andythenorth> michi_cc: it's a learning thing, not a problem 19:55:05 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:55:07 <michi_cc> Can you post a save? It's interesting to see how other people build. 19:57:00 <andythenorth> I have unfortunate nightly newgrf builds :P 19:57:05 <andythenorth> I can include those 19:57:29 * Rubidium silently starts coughing: paxreduction 19:57:59 * andythenorth +1 19:58:24 <michi_cc> Are these available on the coop bundle server? Then I can download them myself. 19:59:04 <andythenorth> should be yes 19:59:09 <andythenorth> how handy 20:01:40 <Terkhen> nicfer: the default one / opengfx+ trains 20:02:11 <andythenorth> michi_cc: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=54253&p=943827#p943827 20:02:14 <nicfer> hmmm, opengfx+ doesn't add any new train 20:02:20 <nicfer> or am I wrong? 20:03:23 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:35 <frosch123> it has refittable stuff instead of single cargo wagons 20:05:43 <frosch123> maybe also some more graphics 20:10:00 <nicfer> I hate trainsets with hundreds of almost-similar trains 20:10:11 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has joined #openttd 20:10:31 <Ammler> [22:02] <nicfer> or am I wrong? <-- yes 20:10:47 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: Mutant Co-Op - C&C Renegade] 20:16:23 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has joined #openttd 20:17:22 <michi_cc> andythenorth: You could get quite a bit more passengers by improving the coverage of the serviced towns (especially at Bubblebridge missing quite a lot of the demand) 20:17:38 <andythenorth> it only just allowed me to build more stations ;) 20:17:50 <andythenorth> the town was quite cross with me for a few years 20:18:15 <andythenorth> I haven't figured out RV routing yet 20:18:27 <andythenorth> full load orders seem to be ruled out in YACD 20:18:33 <andythenorth> and waiting 10 days is too much 20:18:42 <andythenorth> waiting 0 days seems to not work 20:19:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i set the wait times for trams to something low, like 1 tick, and at the end station something longer like 500 ticks, then the trams on the route stay nicely separated 20:20:16 <andythenorth> cunning 20:20:23 <andythenorth> I'm trying 1 day 20:21:01 <michi_cc> Full load orders do work, but I'd only use them for cargo and not pax. 20:21:46 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:21:49 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly. full load orders will fail with bidirectional travel 20:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause> all vehicles will wait at one side, while the other side overfills 20:22:32 <Eddi|zuHause> because it's never fully symmetrical 20:22:45 * andythenorth wants a default timetable wait amount - similar to servicing default :P 20:23:12 <Terkhen> nicfer: IIRC it adds only one or two engines, but you asked for the most minimalistic set 20:23:27 <nicfer> also, I find like the original trainset lacks some things, specially MUs 20:23:49 <nicfer> and the two DMUs are useless 20:24:20 <andythenorth> michi_cc: binkyton hotel is quite a popular destination ;) 20:24:31 <nicfer> 120 km/h at 1980? is that a joke? 20:25:38 <Eddi|zuHause> nicfer: that's why we have newgrfs 20:25:49 <Terkhen> you seem to have contradicting goals :) 20:26:06 <nicfer> read what I've said above 20:26:22 <nicfer> neither too much trains, nor too few 20:27:22 <Terkhen> not minimalistic then... usually I only use opengfx+ trains and 2cc so I can't help you much on this 20:28:33 <nicfer> ehmm... mediumalistic? 20:28:47 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has joined #openttd 20:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> nicfer: i'm afraid with trainsets you won't find any common criteria about what is "good" 20:29:44 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why there are so many 20:29:51 <michi_cc> andythenorth: The first value of economy.cargodest.weight_scale_ind should probably be higher, or maybe I'll have to add a third value for town cargoes. 20:30:03 <andythenorth> maybe 20:30:08 <andythenorth> PAX industry is an odd case 20:30:21 <andythenorth> newgrf wiki suggests it's not really something that should be done 20:30:40 <andythenorth> but I did it anyway :P 20:31:08 <Eddi|zuHause> if one had more cargo slots, all industries could accept passengers (workers) 20:31:11 <Ammler> nicfer: there are filters, so no set is too big 20:31:22 <Eddi|zuHause> then also these could get bias for passengers from town 20:31:41 <Eddi|zuHause> (commuters make a vast majority of local traffic) 20:31:43 <Ammler> best is use every set at once 20:32:12 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: they can 20:32:23 <andythenorth> tile acceptance 20:32:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but that's quite a hack 20:32:39 <andythenorth> well... 20:32:49 <andythenorth> but then industries also need fuel? 20:32:49 <michi_cc> It's not that much off though, production is 99 pax per month, outgoing cargo is about double. As pax is handled symmetrically (i.e for an amount A -> B, the same amount B -> A is generated) double is quite expected. 20:33:05 <andythenorth> michi_cc: I don't think it's a problem 20:33:05 *** Amis [~Amis@catv-89-135-77-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:33:18 <andythenorth> everyone likes a meal and a drink : 20:33:19 <andythenorth> :) 20:33:21 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 20:34:32 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:34:48 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: does your patch solve the "two industries in catchment area" delivery problem? 20:35:31 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Cargo is delivered to the intended destination industry, regardless of how many other industries are in the catchment. So, yes. 20:36:07 <Eddi|zuHause> great. i think that's definitely an argument in favour of YACDest over CargoDist 20:39:11 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:39:24 <michi_cc> andythenorth: I would have placed Slumberbridge Docks on the coast section a bit lower as that has better coverage of the town from there. 20:41:07 *** Firzen [~Neon@dslb-178-004-188-075.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 20:41:55 <andythenorth> yarp 20:43:53 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:46:46 <andythenorth> michi_cc: I need to start building my freight network 20:46:59 <andythenorth> I want to see if manifest trains can replace point-to-point unit trains 20:47:14 <andythenorth> but I didn't want to start too early, I think freight will lose money easily 20:55:34 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 20:56:51 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:53 <Eddi|zuHause> problem is you can't vary cargos back-and-forth... 20:57:05 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:57:24 <Eddi|zuHause> and you have to define the capacities for each cargo beforehand, they can't dynamically change 21:00:10 <andythenorth> I know 21:00:22 <andythenorth> and I have 29 cargos in FIRS + mail + pax 21:00:26 <andythenorth> :o 21:00:29 <Eddi|zuHause> have i mentioned shunting yet? :p 21:01:02 <andythenorth> we also had the idea of wrapping cargo in 'containers' 21:01:10 <andythenorth> possibly limited by class 21:01:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that is probably mostly the same thing, code wise 21:01:47 <andythenorth> yes 21:02:02 <andythenorth> but visually different 21:02:06 <andythenorth> and in terms of routing 21:02:29 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: There's a different thing in the pipe before that ;) 21:03:15 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: are you actually peter1139 [wait, he incremented?] in disguise? :p 21:04:10 <michi_cc> http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/cool_stuff2.png 21:05:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i was thinking about that recently... there should be enough map bits 21:05:21 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.153.193.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:06:21 <Eddi|zuHause> the more railtypes you have, the more important it gets 21:06:59 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.152.250.119] has joined #openttd 21:07:07 <andythenorth> railtypes 21:07:10 <andythenorth> brrr 21:07:17 <andythenorth> surely you meant 'roadtypes' :P 21:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: for that he must reveal his disguise :p 21:09:58 * andythenorth needs a consist manager 21:10:20 <andythenorth> here's one option: MP game with paid helper (amazon turk) 21:10:25 *** Turb [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:15:35 <Terkhen> good night 21:16:37 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:16:54 <andythenorth> michi_cc: FIRS farms are an interesting challenge now 21:17:03 <andythenorth> they have very low production initially 21:17:25 <andythenorth> so I have amounts like 4t per month to xyz place 21:18:33 <andythenorth> routing freight is going to break my brain :D 21:23:32 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:28:28 *** ar3k [~ident@ecc81.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 21:32:08 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's why i start with fewer industries :) 21:32:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it'd be nice if secondary industries clustered around cities 21:32:43 <frosch123> maybe the number of destinations should be limited per industry 21:33:05 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.3.63] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like simutrans 21:34:50 <frosch123> no idea :) 21:35:51 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecb73.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:01 *** Turb [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:38:38 * andythenorth is finally going to have to fix the FIRS low-cargo processing bug 21:38:40 <andythenorth> :P 21:38:43 <andythenorth> due to YACD 21:39:00 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:42:22 <supermop> what are you guys talking about 21:42:51 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:44:52 <frosch123> night 21:44:55 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009d6b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:35 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-200-245.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 21:58:04 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:45 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:07:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:10:32 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 22:11:45 * Zuu wonders if he should be lucky or not for the fact that the Ginzu 'A4' steam engine got 99% reliability in his game 22:12:12 <Zuu> Nice that it have good reliability, but it will take a while before there comes an engine that is worth to upgrade to. 22:12:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i play without breakdowns 22:13:14 <Eddi|zuHause> and the default engines are boring. especially without wagonspeedlimits 22:13:36 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 22:13:42 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19F37.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:59 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-107-36.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 22:36:51 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-107-36.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:40:06 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:42:01 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has joined #openttd 22:44:34 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 22:44:45 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:15 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-161-134.joensuunelli.fi] has quit [Quit: asilv] 22:49:57 <__ln__> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/04/sony-admits-utter-psn-failure-your-personal-data-has-been-stolen.ars 22:50:49 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4B33.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 22:53:33 *** Adambean` [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 22:56:24 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:42 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0fc6f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 23:05:27 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 23:10:16 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 23:15:06 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:18:28 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-167-149.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:23:06 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc30d8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 23:25:16 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc30d8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:22 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:34:46 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has joined #openttd 23:37:16 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has joined #openttd 23:42:51 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:54:11 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]