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00:03:11 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has joined #openttd 00:05:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.180.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:10:36 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:10:50 *** tycoondemon2 [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 00:11:05 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 00:11:05 *** George is now known as Guest2998 00:11:06 *** George|2 is now known as George 00:12:03 <fjb> Does realistic acceleration make horse carriages slow? 00:13:18 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly 00:13:33 <Eddi|zuHause> when they have no proper max TE set 00:15:17 <fjb> The horse carriages from eGRVS are reaching astonishing 1km/h. 00:15:37 <Eddi|zuHause> yep, that's the minimum speed 00:16:05 <Eddi|zuHause> eGRVTS is older than realistic rv acceleration 00:16:17 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:16:39 <Mazur> Any Germans about? 00:16:42 <fjb> Looks like there is no sane fallback in this case. 00:16:50 * fjb hides. 00:17:18 <Mazur> Or anyone who can tell me which key is referred to with: Strg 00:17:19 <Mazur> ? 00:17:22 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: it likely gets filled with some default value, which is too low given the little weight that a horse has 00:17:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: Strg=Ctrl 00:17:37 *** Guest2998 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:17:40 <Mazur> Danke. 00:18:47 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn140-116.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 00:19:21 <fjb> So I should switch realistic acceleration off till I leave the horse age. 00:19:22 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: you have four options at this point 00:19:39 <Eddi|zuHause> 1) keep on babbling on how wrong everything is 00:19:49 <Eddi|zuHause> 2) live with it and keep quiet 00:19:58 <Eddi|zuHause> 3) turn off realistic acceleration 00:20:10 <Eddi|zuHause> 4) update eGRVTS with sane values 00:20:44 <fjb> What license does eGRVTS use? 00:20:55 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea 00:22:25 *** murr4y [~murray@229.84-48-69.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 00:29:43 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:04 <fjb> Hm, only the biggest sailing ship can transport fish. But a fish clipper looks strange. 00:35:43 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:40:52 <Eddi|zuHause> iirc that was discussed at lengths in the thread 00:42:11 <fjb> In witch of that many threads? About sailing ships? 00:43:17 <Eddi|zuHause> each grf tends to have one single (development) thread. 00:43:21 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:00:31 *** lucas92 [~lucas92@bas2-stlambert20-2925120089.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 01:00:40 <lucas92> hi 01:01:49 <lucas92> hey OpenTTD 1.1.1 !!! 01:03:09 *** rplnt [~opera@ip-89-176-190-174.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:05:44 <fjb> The grf in the thread is newer than the one on bananas. 01:07:49 <fjb> Hm, how do I replace a grf in a running game? 01:11:54 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:30:33 *** lucas92 [~lucas92@bas2-stlambert20-2925120089.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:51:47 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 02:04:25 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:05:30 *** bryjen 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[~johekr@p54B775F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:59:54 <Terkhen> good morning 05:06:31 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:19:49 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 05:37:04 <planetmaker> moin 05:37:47 *** manveru [~m_felling@KD114017221254.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #openttd 05:38:13 <manveru> heya 05:39:03 <manveru> just wanted to thank you guys, haven't had a chance to play this in over a decade :) 05:40:08 <planetmaker> :-) 05:41:40 <Terkhen> :) 05:47:22 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 06:13:30 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0497ba.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:21:27 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 06:23:37 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:26:07 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 06:31:47 *** ar3k [~ident@ecm237.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 06:39:09 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebr71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:40:13 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-69-61.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:45:39 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2354.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:46:16 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-75-183.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:46:40 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:49:12 *** NukeBuster [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 06:50:57 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:51:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.180.235] has joined #openttd 06:52:49 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-69-61.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 06:55:40 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 06:56:28 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:12:59 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 07:17:13 *** Amis [~Amis@dsl51B65560.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 07:20:08 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has left #openttd [] 07:27:23 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-38-27.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 07:35:20 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 07:35:20 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [] 07:38:20 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 07:38:22 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [] 07:39:16 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 07:44:31 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 07:44:41 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [] 07:46:24 *** NukeBuster [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:50:48 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 07:55:31 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-005-207.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:08:55 *** ashledombos [~ashledomb@ris91-2-82-227-26-30.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:11:52 <peter1139> http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=cache:lmgtfy.com 08:15:41 <planetmaker> :-D nice 08:16:53 *** Amis_ [~Amis@5400C26D.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 08:24:04 *** Amis [~Amis@dsl51B65560.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:25:57 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:29:36 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BC7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:32:56 <planetmaker> hehe. After some time it gives the page "Our system has detected unusual traffic from your site. Enter <some captcha>" ;-) 08:33:21 <peter1139> hehe 08:50:30 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 08:56:08 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:07:28 *** Amis_ is now known as Amis 09:12:33 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 09:26:38 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BC7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:37:29 *** keky___ [~stefan@p5098b65a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:40:56 *** keky___ [~stefan@p5098b65a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 09:41:19 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 09:45:49 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe64de00-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:45:58 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe64de00-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:58:05 *** fjb is now known as Guest3030 09:58:06 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE078.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:05:30 *** Guest3030 [~frank@p5DDFFF8D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:14:22 <__ln__> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6163683/cycles-in-family-tree-software 10:18:53 <peter1139> urgh 10:20:24 <fjb> Moin. 10:21:03 <Eddi|zuHause> typical case of "your academical assumptions do not hold in the real world" 10:21:30 <fjb> And that real world problem is not really that uncommon. 10:22:20 <__ln__> Certainly not, especially when considering a bit larger cycles. 10:23:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you're thinking confluences... cycles are really only possible with direct descendents, and then you can't have too many generations between them :p 10:24:15 <fjb> Depends, up to 4 should be possible. 10:24:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it's an odd discussion topic this early :p 10:25:38 <fjb> That topic is always odd in our current culture. 10:27:27 <fjb> To get back on topic: Is it not possible any more to change grfs in a running game? 10:27:35 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 10:27:52 <Eddi|zuHause> but we won't tell people how :p 10:28:31 <Eddi|zuHause> rule number one is we don't talk about it 10:28:36 <fjb> And if I'm not a people? 10:28:37 <planetmaker> only scenario developers and newgrf developers are assumed to know the associated risks and not blame any related crashes onto OpenTTD ;-) 10:28:58 <planetmaker> was that hint enough when looking at your config file? 10:29:54 <fjb> Ah, a config file... didn't expect something there. :-) 10:30:33 <planetmaker> every setting... should be there 10:30:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the console works as well ;) 10:31:24 <planetmaker> yes :-) But * developers know that :-P 10:32:51 * fjb had expected something else under that setting. 10:34:06 <planetmaker> in case of doubt use the lesser tool box - which is the scenario developer tools 10:34:12 <fjb> And it could also have been hidden under a magic key combination which OpenTTD has many. 10:34:57 <planetmaker> well... but even then it would need to be a setting 10:36:44 <fjb> Not in every case. It would also have been hidden from the casual user. 10:37:23 *** Amis [~Amis@5400C26D.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37:43 <fjb> But thanks any way. 10:43:16 <fjb> Oh, many new things. The production chain view is great. 10:43:48 *** Amis [~Amis@5400C26D.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 10:44:30 <planetmaker> :-) But that's unrelated to developer settings. But VERY helpful indeed :-) 10:45:57 <fjb> Both is very helpful. 10:47:01 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 10:47:04 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 10:52:22 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-181-212.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:52:38 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-181-212.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:06:22 *** Amis [~Amis@5400C26D.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:09:41 *** manveru [~m_felling@KD114017221254.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:28:20 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B1073B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:32:06 *** Amis [~Amis@5400C26D.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 11:34:00 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B106F06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:40:51 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B1073B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:09:35 *** lucas92 [~lucas92@bas2-stlambert20-2925120089.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 12:09:47 <lucas92> hi 12:11:12 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:29f2:aa78:87a8:86ed] has joined #openttd 12:11:16 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:12:50 *** manveru [~m_felling@EM114-48-20-137.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #openttd 12:20:05 <planetmaker> ho 12:23:25 <Ammler> huhu 12:26:30 <planetmaker> huhu Ammler :-) 12:27:00 <planetmaker> I saw this morning that someone - I assume you - already had updated our stable server :-) Thanks 12:27:08 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-69-61.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:27:11 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 12:33:08 <Ammler> yep almost same time as the news on openttd.org 12:33:35 <Ammler> is is such a nice version string :-) 12:34:54 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-38-27.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:11 <planetmaker> hehe, yeah :-) 12:39:26 <planetmaker> will be the nicest one for long, I guess 12:39:40 <planetmaker> The next similarily nice one will be 1.2.3 possibly ;-) 12:44:20 <Eddi|zuHause> 2.3.5 ;) 12:44:28 *** bdavenport [~bdavenpor@mail.companioncabinet.com] has joined #openttd 12:46:44 <Ammler> well, the next release could be called 1.1.1.1 12:49:19 *** enr1x_ [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 12:53:31 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, if you go by Fibonacci, then 1.1.2 is just as good - and much closer :-P 12:53:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i was actually thinking consecutive primes 12:53:54 <planetmaker> :-) 12:54:22 <planetmaker> 1.2.3 would fit :-P 12:54:29 <Eddi|zuHause> 1 is not a prime 12:54:35 <planetmaker> depending on whether 1 is prime or not 12:55:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that is not even questionable... it does not make any sense to declare 1 a prime 12:55:46 <planetmaker> why not? It's divisible by 1 and itself ;-) 12:56:06 <planetmaker> but those divisors are not distinct... 12:56:06 <Eddi|zuHause> absolutely no system benefits from 1 being a prime. it only complicates things 12:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> every single proposition about primes that currently hold would read "every prime except 1" 12:57:05 <planetmaker> :-) 12:57:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the most obvious one being the prime factorisation 12:57:27 <Eddi|zuHause> if you allowed 1, it would not be unique anymore 12:57:46 <planetmaker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_number#Primality_of_one 12:58:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that discussion was settled 100 years ago 12:58:50 <planetmaker> Lebesgue is not such bad company :-P 12:59:19 <Noldo> does it really make any difference 12:59:38 <Noldo> it's all about consepts, how they are defined and what are the axioms 13:00:07 <planetmaker> read the link I provided. It gives cases where it makes a difference. 13:01:18 <Eddi|zuHause> aside from the above prime factorisation, 1 (or any "unit", i.e an element with a multiplicative inverse element) gets in the way if you extend primes to other structures than natrual numbers 13:03:12 <Noldo> yes, some theorems are not valid in another set on axioms and are valid in others 13:04:59 <Eddi|zuHause> this discussion is over. for 100 years already. the "1 is not prime" guys won. get over it. 13:08:54 <Noldo> if it's important to you 13:09:40 <Belugas> hello 13:17:03 <lucas92> about the trains with the .5 indicator 13:17:11 <lucas92> I would have put 1/2 instead 13:17:22 <lucas92> for example 61/2 13:17:27 <lucas92> 1/2 smaller 13:17:31 <lucas92> than 6 13:17:49 <Yexo> lucas92: and what about 6.4? 13:17:53 *** TWerkhoven [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:17:56 <Yexo> display 6 2/5 ? 13:18:01 <lucas92> yeah 13:18:12 <Eddi|zuHause> lucas92: that was tried, and declined 13:18:13 <lucas92> but I'm talking about openTTD 13:18:23 <lucas92> when does this happen 13:18:27 <lucas92> 2/5? 13:18:29 <Yexo> newgrf vehicles 13:18:34 <lucas92> ahh yeah 13:18:41 <Yexo> lengths are in 1/8 units 13:18:43 <Eddi|zuHause> lucas92: vehicles can be shortened in steps of 1/16 13:18:45 <Yexo> so 2/5 can't actually happen 13:19:02 <Yexo> ah, 1/16 of a tile indeed 13:19:29 <lucas92> anyway, I like better fractions, because trains are not numbers lol 13:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/consistlengths2.png 13:20:16 <lucas92> yeah like that 13:20:18 <lucas92> awesome 13:20:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it was decided to go the other way that you see now. 13:20:44 <lucas92> is this going to be in the stable release? 13:20:48 <lucas92> aww 13:20:50 *** peter1139 [~petern@lachesis.fuzzle.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:04 <lucas92> but decimals dont make any sense with trains 13:21:14 <Eddi|zuHause> so? 13:21:30 <Eddi|zuHause> why do decimals make less sense than fractions? 13:21:42 <Eddi|zuHause> they are just another representation of the same values 13:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and _everything_ is a number in a computer game 13:22:00 <lucas92> because you wont say I drank 0.5 of a water bottle 13:22:13 <lucas92> you would say I drank a half of a water bottle 13:22:15 <lucas92> lol 13:22:21 <Eddi|zuHause> it says "1,5l" on my bottle 13:22:39 <Eddi|zuHause> this is a stupid argument. 13:22:57 <lucas92> anyway 13:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i say "one pound" and not "half a kilo" at the butcher's 13:23:30 <lucas92> but they are not even the same unit 13:23:45 <lucas92> you can't compare apples with oranges 13:23:51 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, they are. in germany, one pound is defined as 500g 13:25:00 <lucas92> I mean, you would say it's half a pound, not 0.5 pound 13:25:09 <lucas92> or you would say 500 g 13:25:19 <lucas92> two different names 13:25:34 <Eddi|zuHause> half a pound would be 250g, obviously 13:25:48 <lucas92> oops 13:25:51 <lucas92> yeah 13:26:02 <lucas92> I'm not too familiar with english unity 13:26:22 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not an english pound 13:26:22 <lucas92> I'm more familiar with the Kg/meters/seconds unity 13:26:32 <lucas92> no? 13:27:26 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, around the 1850's, it was decided to unify the ~50 different measurement systems in use across the country, and go with the SI units 13:27:40 <lucas92> ok, but pound is not SI 13:27:47 <lucas92> g is 13:28:06 <Eddi|zuHause> at that point, "pound" meant something different throughout the country, so the new "metric pound" was defined as something in the middle, and easily comparable to metric units 13:28:21 <Eddi|zuHause> so "1 pound" got exactly "500g" 13:28:38 <Eddi|zuHause> this made transition easier, as the local population still could use "pound" 13:29:06 <Eddi|zuHause> but now it meant something very specific 13:29:11 <Eddi|zuHause> 2 pounds = 1 kilo 13:29:40 <lucas92> ok well it's not that bad of a unit 13:30:18 <lucas92> well, the point is that you can't do unit conversions with trains 13:30:28 <Eddi|zuHause> it very slowly grows out of fashion now, but it is still widely understood 13:30:41 <Eddi|zuHause> but it doesn't count trains 13:30:42 *** petern [~petern@petern.bnsnet.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:30:44 *** mode/#openttd [+o petern] by ChanServ 13:30:44 <Eddi|zuHause> it counts tiles 13:30:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. length units 13:30:53 <Eddi|zuHause> you can say a train is 500m 13:30:57 *** enr1x_ [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:30:59 <Eddi|zuHause> or a train is 0,5km 13:31:07 <Eddi|zuHause> means exactly the same 13:31:38 <lucas92> hmm yeah 13:31:47 <lucas92> from that point of view 13:32:01 <lucas92> but when it says 6.5 what does that mean? 13:32:34 <Eddi|zuHause> 6 tiles and one half? 13:33:11 <lucas92> yeah 13:33:14 <lucas92> exactly 13:33:20 <Eddi|zuHause> so? 13:33:40 <Eddi|zuHause> previously it said "13", what did that mean then? 13:33:51 <lucas92> well, it's more like 61/2? 13:34:07 <lucas92> 13 cargo trains 13:34:18 <Eddi|zuHause> (61)/2 is something very different 13:34:27 <lucas92> no 6 1/2 13:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> lucas92: but it also said 13 if i had 17 wagons 13:34:35 <lucas92> lol 13:34:45 <lucas92> really? 13:34:47 <lucas92> hmm 13:34:50 <Eddi|zuHause> when the 17 wagons were shorter 13:35:02 <lucas92> then decimals are better 13:35:22 <petern> ... 13:35:27 <petern> it's measured in tile lengths now 13:35:36 <petern> instead of original-size wagon lengths 13:36:10 <lucas92> I find it still weird to call a half of a tile 0.5 tile 13:36:17 <petern> why? 13:36:27 <Eddi|zuHause> you missed 5th grade maths or something? 13:36:27 <petern> is 0.5 = 1/2 a difficult concept for you? 13:36:30 <lucas92> you wouldn't say 0.5 orange 13:36:39 <petern> you would say 0.5 metres 13:36:43 <lucas92> yes 13:37:12 <lucas92> anyway, tile seems to be a measure unity so it's fine like that too 13:39:19 <lucas92> I'm glad that Germany denied nuclear power 13:39:35 <petern> good luck with your wind farms 13:40:01 <lucas92> yeah, not sure if coal is better than nuclear anyway 13:40:20 <lucas92> it's still a lot of air pollution 13:40:30 <petern> of course it's not 13:40:52 <lucas92> while Nuclear was pollution free but with nuke risks 13:41:12 <lucas92> hydroelecticity is the best 13:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause> "pollution free" is a myth anyway 13:41:26 *** Chruker [~no@5634a56d.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #openttd 13:41:44 <Eddi|zuHause> hydroelectricity has its own disadvantages 13:41:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's basically exhausted already 13:42:01 <lucas92> not where I live 13:42:04 <petern> you could create a load of lakes 13:42:13 <petern> but that's not exactly... clean 13:42:27 <Eddi|zuHause> lucas92: in densly populated germany, it is. 13:42:35 <lucas92> yes 13:42:54 <lucas92> in Canada, there's still a lot of potential 13:43:20 <petern> screw the rest of the world, we're alright! 13:43:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but how do you get the power from canada to germany? :p 13:43:36 <__ln__> lucas92: coal is a lot worse than nuclear 13:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: but coal doesn't tend to explode and devastate huge strips of land 13:44:15 <__ln__> no, it kills silently 13:44:20 <lucas92> lol 13:44:26 <Eddi|zuHause> small exercise: google for "east ural trail" 13:44:50 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: also, nuclear doesn't "tend" to do that 13:44:56 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... "track" not "trail" 13:44:59 <lucas92> I'm not sure but I think they are working on a way to market the electricity right now 13:45:37 <__ln__> radiation emissions of coal are higher than with nuclear, although that's not what kills 13:46:25 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: it's actually not about the emmissions during "normal operation" 13:46:30 <lucas92> but do Germany have lot of earthquakes? 13:47:35 <Eddi|zuHause> lucas92: yes, but smaller ones, up to strength 5 13:47:37 <fjb> It has some. 13:47:51 <Eddi|zuHause> not 8-9 like japan 13:48:24 <lucas92> yeah that's kinda stupid not using nuclear power then 13:48:40 <fjb> What do you do with the waste? 13:48:43 <petern> 14:39 < lucas92> I'm glad that Germany denied nuclear power 13:48:46 <petern> nice :p 13:48:47 <lucas92> lol 13:49:00 <petern> opinion swing in 9 minutes :p 13:49:02 <lucas92> yeah medias suck 13:49:33 <lucas92> they always seem to disinform about the actuality that is far away 13:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the major critique points was that some nuclear power stations were not designed to withstand earthquake strengths that actually did happen in the last 100 recorded years 13:50:41 <glx> <fjb> What do you do with the waste? <-- you send them in france, like every other countries in the world ;) 13:50:47 <lucas92> lol 13:50:56 <lucas92> you send them into space 13:50:57 <fjb> It would be far to expensive to build that strong nuclear power plants. 13:51:21 <fjb> glx: The french tend to send it back. :( 13:51:22 <lucas92> you throw them into a black hole 13:51:22 <__ln__> glx: nah, we send it to soviet union or russia. (though not anymore after it became politically incorrect) 13:51:29 <Eddi|zuHause> lucas92: have you seen futurama? :p 13:51:34 <lucas92> no 13:51:36 <lucas92> lol 13:51:41 <lucas92> is that a comics? 13:51:49 <glx> fjb: yes but it's usually less dangerous when sent back 13:51:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 13:52:16 <fjb> glx: The opinions about that differ. :) 13:52:27 <__ln__> the waste can probably be reused in the future to get more energy from it. 13:52:44 <glx> or to make bombs 13:53:04 <__ln__> glx: whichever is more beneficial at the time 13:53:05 <fjb> Can probably... Are you sure? And when will that be? How to store it in a secure way until then? 13:53:15 <Eddi|zuHause> it is illegal to ignite a nuclear explosion in germany 13:53:34 <Eddi|zuHause> punishable by up to 5 years jail, or money fee. 13:53:57 <Eddi|zuHause> (unless you actually kill people, then that weighs more :p) 13:54:19 <lucas92> lol 13:54:20 <fjb> So we could send some people to jail for up to 5 years if one of the german nuclear power plants explodes. 13:54:46 <__ln__> fjb: i've reading sources that say it can be done. it's stored somehow right now, and even if shutting down the plants, the waste needs to be stored some way. 13:55:21 <fjb> __ln__: But every day a produces more waste. 13:55:25 <glx> germany will just buy our nuclear electricity ;) 13:55:50 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: the "storage" right now is a metall hall with a fence around it, in the countryside. 13:56:40 <Vikthor> glx: Well, that's not without drawback, here(Czech republic) goverment is expecting 30% rise in electricity cost due to german policy 13:56:53 <fjb> glx: France buys a lot of german electricity because nuclear power plants produce always the same power, independent of the real demand. 13:56:53 <petern> windfarms everywhere! 13:56:53 <petern> lol 13:57:05 <Eddi|zuHause> http://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/328.html 13:57:33 <glx> fjb: right, but germany won't produce the same amount without nuclear power plant 13:57:41 <glx> at least not immediately 13:57:44 <__ln__> fjb: yes, but also burning coal produces both carbondioxide and small particles that people breathe and then die from. 13:58:14 <fjb> Only 4 of our nuclear power plants are actually producing eletricity, and we still sell some to other countries. 13:58:45 <fjb> __ln__: Coal is not your only choice. 13:59:02 <petern> true 13:59:05 <petern> there's oil and gas too 13:59:09 <glx> and wood 13:59:14 <Vikthor> well we are one of the biggest exporters in EU with only 2 NPP. 13:59:22 <Belugas> and sticks and stones 13:59:37 <Eddi|zuHause> it was said since the "fukushima" incident and the subsequent shutting down of the oldest nuclear power stations in germany, we went from net-exporter to net-importer of power. but that is not actually because we can't produce enough power, but because power from other countries is cheaper 14:00:02 <glx> of course 14:00:10 <Belugas> solar panels on every roofs 14:00:30 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BC7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:00:56 <glx> Belugas: yeah and EDF is forced to buy it :) 14:01:08 <glx> it = electricity 14:01:09 <Vikthor> Belugas: You would still need backups for night and overcast weather 14:01:26 <Eddi|zuHause> there are also loads of conspiracy theories floating around, like the major electricity companies actively blocking importing hydro-power from norway 14:02:19 <Eddi|zuHause> problem with relying on solar and wind power is you need some way to store the energy 14:02:46 <Eddi|zuHause> and the only sane way that is currently known to mankind is pumping water uphill 14:02:47 <glx> pumps to put water in high places ? 14:02:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but that needs a hill. 14:02:57 <fjb> Vikthor: You need some more storage power plants. But you also need some for nuclear power. 14:03:24 *** Alexandra_ [~lucas92@bas2-stlambert20-2925120089.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 14:03:36 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: Or a hole in the ground. 14:04:15 <Eddi|zuHause> there are weird experiments currently going on, like pushing pressured air into natural caverns 14:04:16 <Vikthor> fjb: Well, if you have mix of powerplants that can be stopped(hydro, gas etc) you don't need that much storage with nuclear PP 14:05:06 <fjb> Vikthor: What are you doing with the unneeded nuclar electricity at night? 14:05:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Vikthor: the current storage infrastructure is to supply the peak energy, while nuclear power stations provide the base energy 14:06:56 <Vikthor> Yes, but you can stop the peak sources at the night, thus the need for storage is fairly small 14:07:19 *** Sacro_ [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 14:07:19 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:08:40 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro 14:09:00 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, it's currently that "base" energy (24/7 steady lowest consumption) is provided about equal share by nuclear, "stone" coal and "brown" coal, the facilities that need >3h to get running once stopped. the peak energy (highest consumption by day/evening) are gas power and hydroelectric power, increasingly wind power. 14:09:56 *** lucas92 [~lucas92@bas2-stlambert20-2925120089.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:11:15 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe64de00-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:13:51 <Vikthor> Well it is more or less the same for Czech republic, the difference is with hydro, gas, or even coal power plants you can plan ahead, whereas with solar and wind you can't be sure if you will have enrgy at disposal when you need it 14:14:53 <Eddi|zuHause> that is why you need improved storage. to harness the energy when it is available, and not when you need it 14:17:24 <Vikthor> Well the other way is to use backups, ie for every 1000 MW of solar and wind you install 1000 MW of gas PP, which will be idling most of the time 14:19:12 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe68f900-142.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:23:24 *** TWerkhoven [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:25:43 <__ln__> do i remember correctly that 'parameter' is not 'parametre' in britishish? 14:29:00 <Alexandra_> how do you change your name on IRC? 14:29:28 <Alexandra_> that's my sister name 14:29:59 <Thorn_> /nick 14:30:26 *** Alexandra_ is now known as lucas92 14:30:30 <lucas92> ok thanks 14:30:38 *** petern [~petern@petern.bnsnet.co.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:31:16 *** manveru [~m_felling@EM114-48-20-137.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:33:12 <__ln__> lucas92: does she play openttd? 14:33:21 <lucas92> no 14:33:23 <lucas92> XD 14:33:36 <lucas92> she's a sims 3 addict though 14:35:24 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe68f900-142.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:35:53 <Belugas> [10:00] <+glx> Belugas: yeah and EDF is forced to buy it :) <-- we do someting like that here, actually. The unused generated power by solar panels/windmill and even private hydro stations are sold back to Hydro Quebec (our own EDF) 14:37:06 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:04 <lucas92> yes Hydro Quebec 14:38:09 <lucas92> my dad works there 14:38:16 <lucas92> in research 14:38:33 <lucas92> I'm a quebecer btw 14:38:40 <lucas92> Je parle français 14:40:22 <Belugas> cool, moi aussi! mais comme on est pas beaucoup a le faire, on a pas le choix de parler anglais ;) 14:40:27 <Belugas> Dommage :) 14:40:34 <__ln__> zomg, the number of quebeqians has doubled on the channel then 14:40:39 <Belugas> lol 14:40:59 <Belugas> scary, isn't it ;) 14:41:22 <__ln__> yes, reminds me of the Borg invasion in Star Trek 8, or something 14:42:04 <__ln__> "population 9 billion, all québec" 14:43:01 <lucas92> hahaha 14:43:40 <lucas92> anyway, I guess you think that Steven Harper is a bad leaded? 14:43:43 <lucas92> leader 14:44:07 <__ln__> i don't happen to know (about) him 14:44:27 <lucas92> ugh, basically, he is a pro-bush 14:44:47 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.68.243] has joined #openttd 14:46:27 *** Adambean` [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 14:50:11 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 14:51:06 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:53:29 <Belugas> Harper is a strange guy, living in an old age mentality 14:55:47 <ccfreak2k> lucas92, wouldn't that actually make you quebequois? 14:56:16 <lucas92> yes 14:56:29 <lucas92> quebecer 14:56:38 <lucas92> and Canadian 14:58:08 *** peter1138 [~petern@lachesis.fuzzle.org] has joined #openttd 14:58:11 *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ 15:01:56 <Belugas> under a blue sky 15:01:58 <Belugas> finally 15:02:13 <Belugas> well.. at least in montreal 15:03:04 <__ln__> Belugas/lucas92: what do you answer if someone asks "are you american?" 15:03:21 <lucas92> no 15:03:42 <lucas92> Canadians consider that americans are people in the US 15:03:47 <lucas92> USA 15:03:52 <__ln__> i've heard one potential answer is "Yes, I'm from Canada." 15:04:41 <lucas92> well, american is correct since Canada is part of North America 15:04:52 <Belugas> we are NOT americans for sure. That's the silliest statement i've heard 15:04:56 <lucas92> but yeah 15:05:01 <peter1138> you are :) 15:05:13 <peter1138> in the pedantic sense, not in the usual sense 15:05:32 <Belugas> mh.. true... 15:05:46 * Belugas shivers from the though 15:05:49 <Ammler> Belugas: as much as we are Europeans :-) 15:05:51 <Terkhen> :D 15:05:57 <Belugas> quite :) 15:06:44 <Belugas> but as lucas92 mentionned, in our minds (canadian minds), americans are us guys. we are very different from them 15:06:53 <Belugas> even more us, quebecers 15:07:18 <lucas92> well, I wouldn't say that we are much different 15:07:32 <lucas92> I'd say that the East is very different from the West 15:08:24 <lucas92> The more you go far from sea, the more people believe in god and stuff like that 15:09:12 <Belugas> bigots are every where :S 15:09:44 <lucas92> I can't believe Harper entered in majority 15:09:46 <lucas92> wow 15:10:06 <Belugas> was a sad day indeed 15:10:32 <Belugas> i was happy about Bloc defeat though. always thouggh it was a real waste 15:10:52 <Eddi|zuHause> <Ammler> Belugas: as much as we are Europeans :-) <-- ever asked a british guy whether he is european? :p 15:11:13 <Belugas> hehehe 15:11:35 <Belugas> continental europeans :) they are on an island! 15:12:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd think that the average swiss person, even though not in the EU, feels more european than the average british person, even though they're in the EU 15:12:44 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: yes, I didn't mean just we swiss 15:14:49 <Ammler> also for us it is a bit easier, since "Europe" isn't part of a country name 15:15:11 *** TWerkhoven [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:15:52 <Belugas> YUP 15:15:55 <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause: Well you don't have to be in the EU to feel European 15:16:06 <Belugas> oopps... Caps lock 15:16:24 <Ammler> Belugas: but don't you say, I go to "the States", not "America" 15:16:59 <Eddi|zuHause> but "state-people" would sound silly :p 15:17:05 <Belugas> personnaly, i say that I go to the US 15:17:17 <Belugas> or NewYork, or Miami or else 15:17:22 <Ammler> :-) 15:17:31 <lucas92> my parents say going to the states 15:17:52 <lucas92> oh wait 15:17:57 <lucas92> not really XD 15:18:01 <lucas92> in french 15:18:27 <Belugas> i'm sure they rather say "on descend a Plattsburg" :) 15:19:07 <lucas92> lol 15:19:11 <lucas92> yeah 15:21:05 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc16-lewi15-2-0-cust395.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Juo] 15:21:09 <Eddi|zuHause> what's plattsburg? 15:21:34 <Belugas> it's a town not too far from the border, famous for its beaches 15:21:39 <Belugas> and cheap stores :) 15:25:05 <lucas92> yeah cheap stores 15:25:10 <lucas92> mostly 15:25:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's like going to luxemburg for cheap gas 15:26:00 *** ashledombos [~ashledomb@ris91-2-82-227-26-30.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 15:28:26 <Belugas> maybe. do you cross a border with a good long waiting line? hehehe 15:29:37 <__ln__> when i entered Luxemburg (from Belgium) with my friends, we didn't notice the damn border. we only became suspicious because of the cheap gas price. 15:30:14 <Belugas> it's like going from quebec to ontario :) 15:30:23 <__ln__> the border was in the middle of a village or something 15:30:23 <Belugas> no border and gas is cheaper 15:30:34 <Belugas> ho.. and the roads are better in ontario... 15:32:07 <Eddi|zuHause> the Schengen treaty makes it possible ;) 15:32:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Schengen - one of the most famous small villages on the planet ;) 15:33:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Schengen is in Luxemburg, near the border to France and Germany, at the river there was a lying ship where one of the elementary foundations of the european union was signed 15:34:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the abolishment of visa requirements and border checks 15:35:12 <Eddi|zuHause> only britain didn't join yet 15:35:36 <Eddi|zuHause> but switzerland did 15:35:41 <__ln__> and norway 15:35:57 <planetmaker> and Danmark kinda stated it wants to start ignoring it... 15:35:59 <planetmaker> :-( 15:36:38 <planetmaker> Indeed a very elementary part of the EU treaties 15:37:02 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4584.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:37:16 <__ln__> there wasn't much border control between switzerland and germany before schengen either. 15:38:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't know... 15:40:09 <planetmaker> __ln__: well, there *is* border control between Switzerland and Germany 15:40:36 <planetmaker> quite unlike to all other adjacent countries 15:41:08 <__ln__> i've crossed that border without anyone asking me anything in 1998 15:41:13 <planetmaker> well, I didn't test with Poland, but all others is where I could go without stopping and producing a passport. 15:42:41 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.179.164] has joined #openttd 15:43:00 <Terkhen> hmm... why is people still using cargo IDs for coding vehicles? 15:44:30 <Yexo> because they have no idea what they're doing 15:44:35 <Terkhen> and I was asked for my passport when entering germany years ago :P 15:44:40 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:44:43 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 15:44:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.180.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:45:37 <peter1138> maybe they don't realise they should be using labels 15:46:55 <peter1138> mind you, iirc, george used different translation tables depending on what other grfs were loaded, kinda defeating the point... 15:47:31 <George> I never did it 15:47:36 <peter1138> hmm 15:47:40 <peter1138> maybe it was someone else 15:47:52 * frosch123 bets on canset 15:47:55 * planetmaker wasn't asked for a passport for ages within Europe - except that time I travelled through Switzerland. 15:48:15 <planetmaker> Previous to that only upon leaving or returning on airports 15:48:18 <Terkhen> hmm... maybe he's asking because he's thinking about an addon for FIRS 15:48:33 <Terkhen> I wasn't asked for a passport when entering norway :P 15:49:02 <Terkhen> I felt cheated, I lost a morning in a long queue to update it 15:49:31 <Yexo> peter1138: wasn't it canset who did that? 15:50:56 <Alberth> Terkhen: you should ask your money back :p 15:51:13 <Terkhen> that too, burocracy isn't cheap :P 15:55:48 * planetmaker thinks that frosch will win his bet 15:56:40 <frosch123> did you check? :) 15:57:00 <planetmaker> no. But I faintly recall those statements in a related thread 15:57:45 <frosch123> ok, so, 3 apes 1 idea, can't be wrong 15:57:58 <planetmaker> and wondering at the same time why several might be needed ;-). Yeah, that :-P 15:59:08 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:59:37 <frosch123> hmm.,, when there are 5 topics in a row in a forum which got a new post by the same user... it is probably not worth to read any of them 15:59:51 <planetmaker> :-) 16:00:08 <planetmaker> which user? Brumi? 16:00:14 <frosch123> something with x 16:00:46 <frosch123> ah x and a galiian druid :) 16:01:02 <planetmaker> I don't see such new ones. But there was a lot of spam today. 16:01:23 <frosch123> well, they are from yesterday, but i did not read forums since then :) 16:05:16 <Eddi|zuHause> lot's of "i updated this patch"... nothing important 16:06:26 <planetmaker> most interesting I found the update to the yacd patch ;-) 16:06:59 <frosch123> that would actually be quite a surprise :) i would bet on "i like this, how can i make it work in 1.1.0-rc2?" 16:07:16 <Terkhen> heh, that's how I started with the code :P 16:07:31 <planetmaker> hehe. Me, too 16:07:55 <planetmaker> I really wanted another wwottdgd. And it succeeded eventually ;-) 16:08:05 <planetmaker> And I learnt how to use VCS then 16:09:03 <planetmaker> how could I ever do without? ;-) 16:09:58 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-50-241.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 16:10:35 <Alberth> it is unbelievable how easy it is to do without what you don't know about :p 16:11:01 <planetmaker> yeah 16:13:37 <frosch123> ah, now i arrived at the brumi topics :) 16:16:01 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-69-61.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:16:09 <planetmaker> they're ok. Bug reports to AIs and similar 16:16:44 <frosch123> might be, but i would still only read them if they would be my topic 16:17:24 <lucas92> what is yacd? 16:18:10 <Alberth> yet another cargo dist/dest 16:18:17 <Alberth> it's in the development forum 16:18:25 <lucas92> ok 16:18:39 *** manveru [~m_felling@KD114017221254.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #openttd 16:22:37 <lucas92> I try to apply the patch with TurtoiseSVN and nothing happens 16:22:42 *** OpenTTDNood [~587a0018@webuser.thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 16:22:54 <OpenTTDNood> pouet 16:22:58 *** OpenTTDNood [~587a0018@webuser.thegrebs.com] has quit [] 16:24:15 <lucas92> oh it's a git patch 16:24:17 <lucas92> XD 16:25:42 <Terkhen> yes, tortoisesvn is a bit stupid regarding patches 16:25:52 <Alberth> don't bother with tortoiseSVN, switch to tortoiseHG 16:26:08 <lucas92> turtoiseHG 16:26:09 <lucas92> ok 16:26:31 <Alberth> that way you can have your own changes in your own repositories 16:26:34 <planetmaker> indeed. When patching HG or git are much superior 16:26:57 <lucas92> is TurtoiseHG a SVN browser too? 16:27:11 <Terkhen> no, tortoiseHG is for mercurial 16:27:15 <lucas92> ok 16:27:25 <Alberth> no, it uses mercurial, and there is a mercurial mirror of openttd 16:28:04 <planetmaker> hg = chemical symbol for mercurial ;-) 16:28:09 <lucas92> yeah 16:28:30 <planetmaker> </smart ass> :-P 16:28:38 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2354.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 16:28:59 <lucas92> well, I'm restarting my computer 16:29:01 <lucas92> see ya 16:29:07 <lucas92> in 2 minutes 16:29:12 <planetmaker> :-) 16:29:16 <Alberth> the joys of windows :) 16:29:25 <lucas92> yep 16:29:28 <Ammler> must be a old windows 16:29:36 <Terkhen> tortoisehg requires a restart? why? :O 16:29:36 <lucas92> no it's Windows 7 16:29:43 <lucas92> dunno 16:29:49 <Ammler> 2 mins to reboot? 16:29:55 <lucas92> maybe? 16:30:03 * planetmaker never understood why installing a programme needs reboots 16:30:08 *** lucas92 [~lucas92@bas2-stlambert20-2925120089.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:30:16 <Terkhen> ah, right, tortoise* programs play with the context menus 16:30:24 <planetmaker> yes, so? 16:30:28 <Terkhen> and windows is not able to start using new context options without a restart 16:30:33 <Terkhen> no idea, windows is stupid 16:30:47 <Terkhen> specially regarding changes to stuff that shouldn't be a core part of the OS 16:31:00 <Ammler> doesn't have x-restart :-) 16:31:18 <Terkhen> there is no equivalent of x in windows, it is part of the OS itself 16:32:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the main reason i quit using windows. every silly small program needed a restart 16:32:50 <Terkhen> I still need windows to play new games as soon as they are released :P 16:33:18 <planetmaker> :-D 16:33:31 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-074-205-044.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:33:57 *** lucas92 [~lucas92@bas2-stlambert20-2925120089.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 16:34:02 <lucas92> what's up 16:34:21 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:34:22 <Terkhen> not much, talking about windows vs linux as usual 16:34:23 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0497ba.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:34:28 <lucas92> lol 16:34:35 <lucas92> both are good 16:34:39 * Rubidium isn't really bothered by the reboots upon application installation, when I had to reliably boot it three times a day due to utter hanging :( 16:35:03 <Terkhen> lucas92: that's a great phrase for ending circular discussions :) 16:35:18 <Terkhen> I get hangs all the time with gnome 3 now :/ 16:35:24 <lucas92> yep, both are for different uses 16:35:36 <lucas92> running servers on Linux is awesome 16:35:54 <Terkhen> maybe it's time to switch from gnome to something else 16:35:57 <lucas92> while making school projects on Windows is awesome for compatibility 16:36:30 * Terkhen does not like kde either 16:38:14 <lucas92> so I need to create a new repository for mercurial 16:38:16 <lucas92> ? 16:38:27 <Terkhen> no, you need to clone the openttd repository 16:38:34 <lucas92> ok 16:38:49 <lucas92> ctr c ctr v? 16:39:07 <Terkhen> see http://hgbook.red-bean.com/read/a-tour-of-mercurial-the-basics.html 16:39:19 <Terkhen> hmm... no, that's for console mercurial 16:39:23 <Terkhen> I don't know how to use tortoisehg 16:39:32 * Belugas goes outside shooting some pixels 16:39:33 <planetmaker> it has its own tutorial, for sure 16:39:41 <lucas92> yeah ok I'll google it 16:39:42 <planetmaker> *poof* 16:39:56 <planetmaker> but let them live, Belugas ! ;-) 16:40:39 * planetmaker goes outside "shooting" some food 16:40:50 * fjb hides. 16:41:06 * planetmaker wonders whether fjb thinks I'm a canibal :-P 16:41:09 <lucas92> http://tortoisehg.bitbucket.org/manual/2.0/quick.html 16:42:16 * fjb doesn't trust all that "shooting". 16:42:17 <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_development#How_can_I_obtain_the_source_code.3F 16:46:32 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 16:57:58 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe64de00-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:00:01 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 17:02:41 <lucas92> ok it's HG Clone 17:02:50 <lucas92> for getting the mercurial repository 17:05:11 <lucas92> I guess I'll compile OpenTTD an another time XD 17:06:16 <lucas92> anyone playing OpenTTD right now? 17:07:16 <fjb> Yes. 17:08:40 <lucas92> which server? 17:09:25 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:11:10 <Terkhen> localhost? :P 17:12:17 *** anythingffs [~Miranda@5ad93c65.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 17:12:32 <lucas92> you? 17:12:43 <anythingffs> guys, is there anyway to turn off the council rating? 17:12:46 <lucas92> I've never tried local hosting 17:13:05 <lucas92> advanced settings I think 17:13:10 <lucas92> local authority 17:13:59 <Terkhen> anythingffs: no 17:14:34 <lucas92> aww 17:14:48 <lucas92> how would you modify that in the source code? 17:14:56 <lucas92> which files? 17:15:19 <lucas92> putting an option in the advanced settings window 17:15:22 * anythingffs wants a dictatorship! 17:15:28 <lucas92> under authority 17:15:40 <lucas92> Economy/towns 17:15:58 <Terkhen> I would start by looking for a commit in the revision log that adds a setting, that way you know which files you need to modify and how to add a setting 17:16:25 <lucas92> ok 17:16:27 <Terkhen> then there must be checks for town rating somewhere, turn them into conditional checks depending on your new setting 17:16:35 <Terkhen> wait, I think I remember one revision like that 17:16:38 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 17:17:28 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18:07 <Terkhen> meh, it won't help you, how settings are coded changed recently 17:18:59 <Terkhen> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/changeset/19346 <--- unless I'm mistaken the only thing that changes is is the trunk/src/table/settings.h part (ignore roadveh.h, that is the functionality of the setting itself) 17:20:10 <Terkhen> settings.h is now settings.ini and it uses a different format, but it should be something equivalent 17:20:29 <lucas92> ok 17:21:17 <lucas92> I assume that _variable variables are global? 17:21:39 <Alberth> there is already a setting for counsil attitude, it's just that the 'ignore filthy rich tycoon destroying our landscape' value is missing there :) 17:21:45 <Alberth> yes 17:22:11 <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Coding_style 17:23:58 <Terkhen> meh, can we ban using cargo IDs for vehicles? :P 17:24:53 <lucas92> what is SDT_CONDVAR? 17:26:04 <Terkhen> look for it in the definitions, it should be documented IIRC 17:26:44 <Terkhen> openttd uses different savegame versions, new settings have to define in which versions they are present 17:26:47 <lucas92> I think I understand 17:26:53 <lucas92> the code how it works 17:27:24 <Terkhen> in the example I pasted, the new variable was introduced in savegame version 139 and it is available until version SL_MAX_VERSION 17:27:43 <Terkhen> you will need to bump the savegame version in your patch too 17:31:25 <lucas92> what's the point of the multiple #ifdef WITH_FREETYPE in tables/settings.h 17:31:27 <lucas92> ? 17:31:48 <lucas92> only one #ifdef is needed here 17:33:49 <Belugas> boredome 1, pixels 0 17:35:53 <peter1138> Terkhen, deprecate it? 17:35:58 <peter1138> flash up huge warnings! 17:36:15 <Belugas> muahahah!!! in order to answer, i need to svn up big time :) 17:37:23 <Terkhen> "this set will likely break in the future or not work at all with new industry sets unless it is updated frequently" 17:38:45 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-181-212.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:39:23 <peter1138> by "using cargo IDs" i assume you mean it doesn't use a translation table? 17:41:28 <Terkhen> yes, it uses IDs directly 17:41:46 <lucas92> would have an idea of how to remove local authority 17:41:58 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Coding_style [19:23] Terkhen meh, can we ban using cargo IDs for vehicles? :P <-- well... not directly. But a grf defining vehicles without CTT might become invalid in nfo v8 ;-) 17:42:05 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95.25.14.215] has joined #openttd 17:42:10 <Terkhen> s/might/should/ 17:42:38 <Terkhen> lucas92: you will need to dig into the code for that, I don't know how it is handled :) 17:42:48 <Alberth> lucas92: tables/settings.h is generated 17:42:48 <Terkhen> you should check if your setting appears correctly (even if it does nothing) first 17:43:01 <lucas92> ok 17:45:27 <lucas92> wasn't there a setting that set the town authority to permissive, severe? 17:45:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22530 /trunk/src/lang/ (polish.txt unfinished/frisian.txt): 17:45:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frisian - 6 changes by Fopper 17:45:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: polish - 5 changes by nouwak 17:47:15 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host107-236-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:47:32 <Wolf01> hello 17:47:39 <Alberth> evenink 17:49:46 <Terkhen> hi Alberth 17:49:54 <Terkhen> lucas92: yes 17:50:10 <Terkhen> you could also add a new option to that setting: ignore 17:50:12 <Alberth> game options 17:50:19 <Terkhen> oh, game options are more complicated :) 17:50:22 <lucas92> yeah that's what I think 17:50:37 <lucas92> oh 17:50:55 <lucas92> is there any example of game option? 17:53:34 <Terkhen> I don't know if they are meant to be edited at all, I never modified one 17:53:47 <Terkhen> so I don't know if they work like advanced settings or not :P 17:54:16 <lucas92> meh 17:54:31 <lucas92> I'm trying too hard 17:54:59 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host212-234-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:54:59 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest3076 17:54:59 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 17:55:20 <planetmaker> not game options. Difficulty options 17:55:40 <lucas92> I want to try something real easy to modify, let's say drawing a big ugly rectangle on the main screen 17:55:46 <planetmaker> But yes, they're not handled exactly the same way. But adding it there is the logical way. 17:55:49 <lucas92> where do I put the code? 17:56:02 <planetmaker> that's not easy ;-) 17:56:09 <lucas92> huh? 17:56:13 <planetmaker> more difficult than changing difficulty settings 17:56:17 <lucas92> XD 17:56:18 <lucas92> twt 17:56:20 <lucas92> wtf 17:56:23 <planetmaker> Unless you draw a window 17:56:33 <lucas92> ok a window then 17:56:45 <planetmaker> then look at a *_gui.cpp and look ;-) 17:56:52 <lucas92> ok 17:57:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 17:57:26 * andythenorth is puzzled 17:57:30 <planetmaker> thanks to alberth's gui re-write handling windows is very easy now. And nearly fail-proof 17:57:41 <andythenorth> is it better to keep grf-crawler because it does stuff that bananas doesn't? 17:57:50 <andythenorth> or is it better to improve bananas and shut grf-crawler? 17:57:51 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes and no 17:57:55 <andythenorth> one imvolves more work 17:58:02 <andythenorth> the other is better for users in the long run 17:58:05 <Terkhen> IMO grfcrawler should be kept anyways, even if just as an archive 17:58:07 <planetmaker> I prefer the bananas solution. 17:58:22 <andythenorth> see 17:58:23 <planetmaker> I just updated my checkout of extra/website/bananas ;-) 17:58:23 <Terkhen> but bananas should be able to do everything that grfcrawler does :) 17:58:30 <andythenorth> two good answers from two sensible people :P 17:58:55 <andythenorth> both different :P 17:59:06 <lucas92> gui.cpp... 17:59:11 <planetmaker> I do also agree with the statement "should be kept" 17:59:20 <planetmaker> There's obviously no need to shut it down 17:59:29 <planetmaker> it's running as it seems on a tt-forums server anyway 17:59:48 <planetmaker> just he has to hand over responsibility / admin access to *someone* 17:59:52 <Alberth> lucas92: no, a file that ends with "_gui.cpp" that's what *_gui.cpp means 17:59:53 <planetmaker> preferrably orudge 18:00:02 <Terkhen> lucas92: if game options / difficulty options work like advanced settings you should only need to change the GUI if you are adding a new setting, if you modify an existing one it already has a space in the window 18:00:02 <lucas92> ok lol 18:00:21 *** Guest3076 [~wolf01@host107-236-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:03:17 <Terkhen> are you going to update bananas? :P 18:03:19 <planetmaker> I've the feeling that the 'best' approach usually is to have a goal with your source code modifications, lucas92 ;-) 18:03:26 <planetmaker> then it will somewhat come naturally 18:03:30 <orudge> planetmaker: well, my intention is to take control of it, whether Oskar may like that or not, we'll have to see :p 18:03:37 <orudge> assuming he decides he does want to shut it down, that is 18:03:54 <planetmaker> :-) good news 18:03:56 <Terkhen> :) 18:04:02 <lucas92> yeah, let's say I want to draw a big-ass "like a boss" string on the rail building gui 18:04:37 <planetmaker> just change the string in the lang file(s) 18:04:42 <planetmaker> ;-) 18:05:05 <planetmaker> and if you want it additonally add the string widget where appropriate 18:05:23 <planetmaker> start by playing around with one window. Try to change single, small things. See how it works 18:05:52 <lucas92> yeah 18:06:09 <Terkhen> break random stuff, look how it breaks, understand random stuff, repeat 18:06:37 <planetmaker> change widget spacing. change widget sizes, change strings, change button order, change button placement. And see indeed how nicely it fails on the first tries ;-) 18:06:39 <Belugas> and most important, get tons of coffee ready to be brewed 18:06:46 <planetmaker> don't take the newgrf gui window ;-) 18:07:09 <planetmaker> nor actually the station build window as a starter 18:07:42 <lucas92> rail_gui is fine? 18:08:13 <lucas92> the one that you choose signals and rails? 18:08:28 <Terkhen> that file has all rail related windows 18:08:39 <lucas92> cool I'll look into it 18:08:48 <Alberth> town directory is one of the simplest windows 18:09:12 <Alberth> or subsidy gui perhaps 18:10:31 <planetmaker> well, but there are no buttons. So I think like a toolbar. Or maybe the terragen_gui.cpp are good places 18:10:57 <planetmaker> hm... though the new game window is layered also... so maybe not ;-) 18:11:06 <planetmaker> :-) 18:13:10 <planetmaker> trust alberth on it. He wrote that ;-) 18:16:49 <Alberth> everything is clickable, normally non-button clicks are just ignored :p 18:17:20 <Alberth> and the town directory does have buttons to select sorting :) 18:17:35 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 18:18:35 <planetmaker> :-) right 18:23:04 <Belugas> #Sometimes I dream about reality 18:23:12 <Belugas> # Sometimes I feel so gone 18:23:20 <Belugas> # Sometimes I dream about a wild wild world 18:24:13 <Belugas> # Hey Bobby Marley, sing something good for me 18:24:30 <Belugas> #This world is crazy, it's an emergency! 18:27:28 <SmatZ> hello 18:27:35 <SmatZ> today's xkcd is funny :) 18:32:13 <Belugas> despite my fear of sounding stupid ignorant, but wat is xkcd ? 18:32:21 <Alberth> www.xkcd.com 18:32:28 <Terkhen> a webcomic 18:32:59 <SmatZ> it's funny because it's true 18:33:48 <Terkhen> http://xkcd.com/87/ <--- this one is still one of my favourites :P 18:33:49 <SmatZ> have you ever chacked the citation link from wikipedia? :p 18:34:02 <SmatZ> :D 18:34:04 * planetmaker is surprised that there are regulars in this channel who don't know xkcd ;-) 18:36:21 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-58-38.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 18:37:08 <lucas92> lol 18:37:08 <andythenorth> this xcd is better: http://www.xkcd.com/905/ 18:37:16 <lucas92> very funny stuff 18:37:16 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:37:21 <Alberth> http://xkcd.com/878/ I like this one 18:37:27 <peter1138> oh what, setting cargo type doesn't use the translation table...? 18:37:41 <Terkhen> if you don't know xkcd I recommend reading it completely and always check the mouse over texts 18:37:55 <lucas92> lol 18:38:12 <lucas92> http://www.xkcd.com/730/ 18:38:15 <lucas92> awesome 18:38:33 <Alberth> Belugas: http://xkcd.com/891/ :p 18:38:50 <planetmaker> 905 is rather mediocre IMHO 18:39:48 <Alberth> http://xkcd.com/802/ online communities 18:40:00 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-50-241.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:40:03 <andythenorth> ho http://xkcd.com/519/ 18:40:39 <Alberth> nice one :) 18:40:56 <planetmaker> hehe, yeah :-) 18:41:56 <Belugas> lol 18:41:59 <andythenorth> 905 is funnier if you have bought a house 18:42:09 <Belugas> thanks Alberth, now i know i'm very much old! 18:42:14 <andythenorth> when you first get a house, it's a bit mind blowing that you can drill anywhere 18:42:35 * Belugas loves to drill 18:42:41 <Belugas> and trash walls 18:42:57 <Belugas> and ...rebuild them up... 18:43:16 <planetmaker> quite ;-) 18:43:55 <Belugas> my prefered tool, after the hammer: epoxy glue. fixes anything my son breaks (apart legs/arms/etc) 18:44:47 <planetmaker> :-D 18:46:38 <Terkhen> how do you know? did you try? :P 18:47:08 <Belugas> hem... no? 18:47:11 <Alberth> one should use some wood and duct tape for those cases, of course 18:47:26 <Belugas> concrete, rather 18:47:31 <Belugas> sure it won't move 18:49:08 <Terkhen> :D 18:50:28 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-181-212.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 18:50:57 <Belugas> funny... when we laid down the concrete over the new plumbering system, my father, brother and I put our hands on th fresh concrete. My son wanted to do teh same, but when he saw our dirty hands, he changed his mind 18:51:15 <Belugas> and called us prehistoric men ;) 18:51:31 <Belugas> my wife was laughing big time 18:51:34 <Terkhen> :D 18:52:42 <planetmaker> looool ! 18:52:59 <planetmaker> you darn old fossil, you ;-) welcome to reality ;-) 18:53:14 <planetmaker> children and fools tell the truth :-P 18:53:21 <andythenorth> mine doesn't 18:53:29 <planetmaker> yet :-P 18:54:16 <Terkhen> that's a strange saying, the children I have met are usually skillful manipulators of the truth :) 18:54:47 * planetmaker hugs Belugas 18:55:00 <andythenorth> they can't handle the truth 18:55:06 <andythenorth> you can't handle the truth :P 18:55:06 <planetmaker> Terkhen: not of the truth. much more of their parents 18:56:31 <Belugas> wait til he really can talk, andythenorth :) lots of good times ahead! 18:56:42 <Belugas> and hugs and kisses 18:56:54 <Belugas> let's pass the "larva stage" 18:57:24 <andythenorth> currently he shouts incoherently 18:57:29 <andythenorth> in my ear 18:58:42 <Belugas> :) 18:58:57 <Belugas> Remember: he does not do that on purpose. he just feels bad 18:59:13 <Belugas> send it back to mom, he will feel better 18:59:16 <Belugas> muwhahahha!! 18:59:17 <Wolf01> <Belugas> let's pass the "larva stage" <- why did this reminds me "the fly"? 18:59:43 <Belugas> because you're not a dad yet :) 18:59:51 <lucas92> I'm still a student 19:00:07 <lucas92> going to university next september 19:00:17 <lucas92> electric engineer 19:01:03 <lucas92> I think it's the perfect job: you do both programming and science 19:01:08 <Wolf01> I'm not bothered to become a dad for the next 20 years 19:01:20 <lucas92> why? 19:01:35 <lucas92> I think life sucks without anyone 19:01:46 <Wolf01> don't tell me 19:03:03 <Belugas> Wolf01, i said the same before. took me a while, but now, i can't imagine life without him 19:03:14 <Belugas> good luck, lucas92 19:03:20 <Belugas> fnd simething you really like 19:03:28 <Belugas> you'll might end up doing it fora long time 19:03:35 <lucas92> yep 19:05:17 <lucas92> well, I think there will be plenty of girls anyway at the polytechnique 19:06:03 <lucas92> girls that love science are so much fun 19:06:37 <lucas92> I've never had any "barbie" friends 19:07:48 <lucas92> don't want to anyway. XD 19:08:08 <Belugas> they are nice in front of a camera :) 19:08:24 <lucas92> yeah, but they are so BOORRRINNG 19:09:47 <Belugas> i agree. 19:10:45 * planetmaker highly prefers character over model looks for anything long-term ;-) 19:11:52 <Belugas> 1/80 is long term alright 19:11:54 <Belugas> ho... 19:12:00 <Belugas> you mean... 19:12:02 <Belugas> yeh... 19:12:03 <Belugas> right 19:15:12 <lucas92> or you will end up like these guys 19:15:13 <lucas92> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDn2Xp5ctQM 19:16:22 <Belugas> no youtube at work, sorry :( 19:16:30 <lucas92> oh you're at work? 19:16:36 <lucas92> ok 19:16:38 * Belugas nods 19:18:57 <SmatZ> lucas92: what the... 19:19:03 <lucas92> XD 19:19:05 <SmatZ> that video is not sane :p 19:19:29 <lucas92> this one too 19:19:30 <lucas92> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt1kWNImkxo&feature=relmfu 19:19:44 <Belugas> never trust youtube at work :) 19:20:00 <Terkhen> I have seen worse :P 19:22:31 * SmatZ once again WTFs 19:26:52 <Terkhen> that's the power of the internet :P 19:27:44 <SmatZ> :) 19:30:56 <lucas92> right now I'm testing some changes with the town authority window 19:31:03 <lucas92> for now it's working good 19:31:23 <lucas92> now I'm trying to move the window to the right each time it draws 19:31:52 <lucas92> testing 19:32:11 <lucas92> also, I'll try to make a flashing string 19:32:26 <lucas92> with a static counter and color array 19:32:47 <lucas92> should be easy 19:33:24 <lucas92> btw, I don't understand why you use the keyword struct instead of class 19:33:45 <lucas92> struct feels more C 19:33:57 <lucas92> while class feels more C++ 19:34:42 <lucas92> and I prefer when it says public: instead of assuming it's public 19:35:47 <Eddi|zuHause> but this is not about what you prefer 19:36:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the code style is a general agreement between all coders, everybody will have to make some compromise to keep things consistent 19:36:45 <Terkhen> lucas92: the code was originally in C, and the code is only changed if it is needed 19:36:53 <Terkhen> so I guess it was kept as struct to minimize changes 19:36:56 <Terkhen> it does not matter much anyways 19:37:02 <lucas92> ok 19:39:36 <lucas92> ok I have to call it OnTick() 19:39:54 <lucas92> so it changes each tick 19:39:57 <lucas92> hmm 19:40:23 <Alberth> biggest difference is that class defaults to private, while struct defaults to public 19:40:31 <lucas92> yes 19:41:04 <lucas92> I don't know if you can make templates with the keyword struct 19:41:18 <lucas92> template<struct T> ? 19:41:55 <Alberth> typename T or so, I think 19:41:59 <lucas92> yeah 19:42:21 <Alberth> but there are not many templates in the code, which is good 19:42:36 <planetmaker> :-) yep 19:42:43 <lucas92> they can simplify the code 19:42:49 <Alberth> on the other hand, those that does exist are way too complicated 19:43:09 <Alberth> if used well, they can, but that is unfortunately not always the case 19:43:15 <lucas92> yep 19:43:57 <Terkhen> simplify the code? check ground_vehicle.* and vehicle* 19:43:58 <Alberth> it is too easy to over-generalize 19:44:19 <Alberth> or yapf, or misc/*.hpp :) 19:44:28 <Terkhen> oh, yapf is even worse IIRC 19:46:31 <planetmaker> hehe... over-generalize 19:46:48 * planetmaker is good at that, probably 19:47:10 <Terkhen> at yapf code? :) 19:47:21 <planetmaker> nope. At trying to over-generalize things. 19:47:30 <Terkhen> :D 19:47:35 <planetmaker> the newgrf makefiles might be an example in that direction. At least I sometimes fear that 19:48:42 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d823a75.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:53:58 <lucas92> testing the flashing strings 19:54:39 <lucas92> very funny to break OpenTTD 19:54:41 <lucas92> XD 19:55:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yapf internals are simply crazy... 19:55:28 <Eddi|zuHause> a mad man coded them... 19:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody dares to touch them since 19:55:41 <lucas92> haven't look at it 19:55:46 <Eddi|zuHause> so much for code simplification :p 19:55:55 <lucas92> is it for path finding^ 19:55:56 <lucas92> ? 19:56:03 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 19:56:05 <lucas92> ouch 19:56:08 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a "simple" A* algorithm 19:56:17 <lucas92> "simple" 19:56:36 <Eddi|zuHause> it abuses templates for compile-time virtualisation 19:56:53 * Alberth fears that he wants to use that code in the near future 19:56:56 <lucas92> because it would take too much time? 19:56:57 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of run-time virtualisation that NPF used, which made it very slow 19:57:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: well "using" yapf is simple, just implement a follow_track routine and you're done 19:58:05 <Alberth> not really in my case, I want to hook a quad tree data structure into it 19:58:23 <Eddi|zuHause> for what? 19:58:31 <Alberth> faster ship path finding 19:58:40 <planetmaker> ho ho :-) 19:58:53 <Alberth> ie use a quad tree to store seas of open space 19:59:01 <Eddi|zuHause> like a pathfinder cache for ships? 19:59:51 <Eddi|zuHause> that shouldn't touch yapf internals either 20:00:14 <Alberth> not only a cache, you store path lengths like in A* only at the edges of the elementary quad trees, thus no computation of all internal paths in a single quad 20:00:26 <lucas92> meh my try doesn't work... :( 20:00:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but still shouldn't be more difficult than the rail cache 20:01:19 <lucas92> townviewwindow is the one that open up when clicking a town right^ 20:01:26 <Alberth> perhaps you are right 20:01:40 <Alberth> right? 20:01:50 <Alberth> normally click at the town name 20:02:09 <lucas92> yeah doesn't seem to work 20:02:11 <lucas92> hmm 20:02:27 <Eddi|zuHause> might be a nice idea to do ctrl+click in the town list open the town window? 20:02:55 <Eddi|zuHause> or reverse that: click open the town window, ctrl+click jump to town? 20:03:08 <Eddi|zuHause> (change from current behaviour) 20:03:47 <Terkhen> faster ship pathfinding would be awesome :) 20:03:47 <Alberth> I consider jumping to the town more useful imho 20:04:29 <Alberth> ie with a click 20:04:44 <Alberth> ctl+click for the town window should be fine though 20:05:01 <Eddi|zuHause> even if you don't know ctrl, you can still jump to the town from the open town window 20:05:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:07:53 <lucas92> ok I think I found my mistake 20:08:11 <lucas92> I need to update the flash counter in the OnTick() function 20:08:47 <planetmaker> use palette animation. Then you don't need to update 20:08:58 <planetmaker> one of the few animation colours 20:09:15 <lucas92> I'll try that after 20:09:30 <lucas92> I'm sure I can make this work anyway 20:09:39 <Eddi|zuHause> there's no 50:50 black/yellow animation, which looks odd in GermanRV busses (they have flash lights on while loading) 20:09:44 <lucas92> but there are animation colours? 20:10:14 <Eddi|zuHause> only 75:25 black/yellow, or 50:50 black/red (used by the trams) 20:10:22 <lucas92> ok 20:10:41 <lucas92> I've put yellow, red, blue, purple and green 20:10:42 <lucas92> XD 20:10:48 <Eddi|zuHause> lucas92: there used to be a .png showing the animated colours 20:11:11 <lucas92> ok 20:11:44 <lucas92> I'm not sure if changing color each tick is too fast 20:11:45 <lucas92> XD 20:12:20 <Eddi|zuHause> lucas92: look at the airport or the lighthouse to see what happens for "every tick" colour change 20:12:41 <lucas92> ok I thought it was an image 20:12:44 <lucas92> animated 20:14:31 <lucas92> alright testing 20:14:58 <Belugas> mmh.. another sign you're old: still loving Dio songs 20:15:01 <Belugas> "who??" 20:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the water animation is also colours 20:15:22 <Belugas> "never mnd, he's dead" 20:15:41 <Alberth> lucas92: likely it is too fast, 100 times/sec is faster than your monitor 20:16:02 <lucas92> yeah I don't see the text flashing at all 20:16:03 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: lucas92 I suggest to have a look at http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ttdviewer/nightlies/LATEST/ 20:16:17 <planetmaker> it's quite awesome to show the possible colour translations and also animation colours 20:16:40 <planetmaker> as java programme it should work whereever 20:16:41 <Alberth> do you mark the area dirty after changing the colour? 20:17:40 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2354.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:18:00 <lucas92> oh 20:22:27 *** bdavenport [~bdavenpor@mail.companioncabinet.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:22:50 <lucas92> http://pastebin.com/tmh0nLd9 20:22:59 <lucas92> I initialize my color array this way 20:23:21 <lucas92> and accessing the colour[i] index 20:24:00 <lucas92> I'll test this out 20:24:18 <Eddi|zuHause> use {} to initialize arrays 20:24:30 <lucas92> for coding style? 20:24:46 <Eddi|zuHause> array literals 20:24:52 <lucas92> how you do it? 20:24:58 <lucas92> don't remember 20:25:29 <Eddi|zuHause> TextColour colour[5] { 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, } 20:25:32 <Eddi|zuHause> err 20:25:35 <Eddi|zuHause> missing = 20:25:55 <lucas92> ok 20:25:58 <Alberth> and add a 'const' :) 20:26:35 <Alberth> and a 'static', and move the definition into the method 20:26:35 <lucas92> const TextColour *colour? 20:26:37 *** Amis [~Amis@5400C26D.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Quit: *pop*] 20:26:50 <lucas92> ok 20:26:58 <Alberth> static const TextColour colours[] = { ... }; 20:27:00 <planetmaker> static const TextColour colour = { ... }; 20:27:09 <lucas92> yeah 20:27:24 <lucas92> ok thanks for the tips 20:27:46 <lucas92> it's building right now... 20:28:14 <Thorn_> so's the foreman 20:30:52 <lucas92> not doing anything still 20:33:03 <lucas92> I'll try to update my counter each 100 ticks 20:35:27 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:36:32 <lucas92> 1 tick is 1/60 of seconds? 20:37:47 <Eddi|zuHause> no, 1/33 20:38:19 <Eddi|zuHause> so 100 ticks is 3 seconds 20:38:41 <lucas92> ah 20:39:08 <lucas92> then I have no idea why it doesn't flash 20:39:22 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 20:40:03 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: TTW - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 20:40:27 <lucas92> great Visual C++ crashed 20:42:24 <lucas92> I'll try on the town authority window 20:42:58 <lucas92> I've succeeded changing the colour of the cost of an action so it should work 20:50:12 <lucas92> nice it works 20:50:13 <lucas92> XD 20:51:00 <Terkhen> :) 20:54:10 <lucas92> cool 20:54:26 <lucas92> now I'm going to try moving the widget in a circle motion 20:54:33 <lucas92> hehehe 20:55:16 <lucas92> btw, debug version compile lot faster lol 20:56:56 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it skips the optimisation part 20:57:05 <Eddi|zuHause> obviously that makes it faster 20:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause> but it then runs way slower 21:00:22 <lucas92> is PI defined somewhere? 21:01:01 <Terkhen> why do you need PI? and probably not 21:01:41 <lucas92> I want to rotate a widget around the mouse cursor 21:01:59 <Eddi|zuHause> so what do you need pi for? 21:02:12 <Yexo> lucas92: try M_PI 21:02:37 <lucas92> got to eat 21:02:44 <lucas92> see ya 21:12:00 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:12:33 *** TWerkhoven [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 21:13:05 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:13:46 <Terkhen> good night 21:13:56 <Vikthor> night Terkhen 21:15:27 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-074-205-044.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:15:57 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc16-lewi15-2-0-cust395.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:18:41 <Wolf01> 'night 21:18:46 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host212-234-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:22:51 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4584.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 21:31:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has left #openttd [] 21:33:21 *** Adambean` [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:34:17 *** Chruker [~no@5634a56d.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [] 21:38:34 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.68.243] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 21:41:27 <lucas92> how do you get the mouse position? 21:41:56 <Yexo> from where in the code? 21:42:08 <lucas92> from town_gui.cpp 21:42:30 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:10 <Yexo> and from where in town_gui.cpp? Window::OnClick gets the position relative to the widget as argument 21:43:38 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 21:43:50 <lucas92> from OnTick() 21:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you might want a Window::OnMouseMove 21:44:09 <lucas92> ok 21:44:30 <lucas92> I see how ok 21:45:13 <lucas92> how do you get the x and y from there? 21:46:08 <lucas92> ok nvm 21:47:51 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe64de00-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 21:47:54 <lucas92> there's no OnMouseMove... 21:49:35 <lucas92> there's OnHover() 21:50:02 <lucas92> but it just execute when it's over the window 21:50:33 <lucas92> there's on MouseLoop() but no way to get the x and y 21:53:16 <Yexo> why do you need the x/y position of the mouse anyway? 21:53:40 <lucas92> to move around the cursor a widget 21:53:46 <lucas92> in a circular pattern 21:53:59 <lucas92> some tests 21:54:16 <Yexo> will that widget always stay within a particular window? 21:54:34 <lucas92> no 21:54:53 <lucas92> it is the local authority widget 21:54:56 <Yexo> so why are you trying to fit the code in a Window class? 21:55:04 <Yexo> what widget? 21:55:04 <Eddi|zuHause> lucas92: and if you just replace the mouse cursor? or a tooltip? 21:55:31 <Eddi|zuHause> check the measurement tooltip 21:55:52 <lucas92> measurement tooltip 21:56:30 <lucas92> how can I replace the mouse cursor? 21:56:47 <Eddi|zuHause> there are plenty of mouse cursor replacements in the code 21:56:54 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. while a build tool is active 21:56:56 <Eddi|zuHause> or autosave 22:03:53 <lucas92> it is in the GUI? 22:04:57 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno... you have the code open ;) 22:04:59 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:25 <lucas92> but I can't find it 22:05:36 <lucas92> how do you find stuff in this code 22:05:39 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc16-lewi15-2-0-cust395.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: goodbye] 22:05:43 <Eddi|zuHause> autoreplace is triggered in date.cpp 22:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause> from there you get the right search terms 22:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause> out of the top of my head there's a _do_autosave variable 22:06:34 <lucas92> ok found it for the tool tip 22:06:52 <lucas92> it's in the NWidget things 22:09:04 <lucas92> you just need to change the sprite in the NWidget declaration 22:09:08 <lucas92> that's all 22:10:40 <lucas92> oops doesn't work 22:12:22 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 22:17:55 <fjb> The combination of YADP and FIRS is astonishingly challenging. 22:21:52 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-005-207.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 22:22:10 <Eddi|zuHause> need passenger reduction patch, they are too many and pay too much 22:23:33 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:12 <lucas92> a tooltip is the yellow window right? 22:26:19 <lucas92> I think I've got this working 22:26:47 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:27:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 22:27:39 <lucas92> cool 22:27:53 <lucas92> too easy XD 22:28:36 <lucas92> how do you change the image next to the mouse when you're building something? 22:28:41 <lucas92> for example, rails 22:28:51 <Eddi|zuHause> which image? 22:29:02 <lucas92> you see a rail piece next to the mouse 22:29:06 <lucas92> when building rails 22:29:08 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: May be I should start with passengers. 22:29:10 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, the highlight 22:29:15 <lucas92> yeah 22:29:21 <lucas92> highlight? 22:29:22 <lucas92> ok 22:29:55 <Eddi|zuHause> lucas92: if you're at it: implement the trackbit-higlighting for autoroads similar to autorails ;) 22:30:23 <lucas92> autoroads? 22:30:27 <lucas92> what do you mean? 22:30:39 <lucas92> oh 22:30:40 <Eddi|zuHause> autorail is the 5th button in the rail toolbar 22:30:44 <lucas92> yeah 22:30:48 <Eddi|zuHause> autoroads the 3rd in the road toolbar 22:31:07 <lucas92> it isn't? 22:31:09 <Eddi|zuHause> autorail highlights exactly the trackbit that will be built, autoroads doesn't 22:31:50 <lucas92> yeah 22:31:58 <lucas92> do the sprites exist? 22:32:04 <lucas92> yes they do for sure 22:32:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so 22:32:14 <lucas92> no 22:32:16 <lucas92> taww 22:32:18 <lucas92> aww 22:32:31 <lucas92> then how am I supposed to do? 22:32:39 <lucas92> don't know how to add sprites 22:32:42 <lucas92> :( 22:39:46 <lucas92> what is a catenary? 22:40:00 <Yexo> the electricity lines above rail track 22:40:11 <lucas92> ok 22:44:37 <Eddi|zuHause> lucas92: just pick other sprites temporarily, adding sprites later is easy 22:44:58 <lucas92> yeah, but I have a hard time to find where the sprite is added 22:45:04 <lucas92> with the highlight 22:45:11 <Eddi|zuHause> in src/table/sprites.h 22:46:06 <Eddi|zuHause> you need 6 sprites, 4 for each half road, and 2 for each full road 22:46:39 <Eddi|zuHause> order would be best if it was the same as in src/road_type.h 22:46:52 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2354.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 22:53:35 <lucas92> I'm not sure to understand... 22:54:52 <lucas92> ok, I'll try something 22:55:59 <lucas92> yeah I don't understand sprite.h 22:56:22 <lucas92> there are sprites for highlighting tracks on slopes 22:56:37 <lucas92> one for the rail 22:56:40 <lucas92> mono 22:56:45 <lucas92> elerail 22:56:50 <lucas92> maglev 22:57:08 <Eddi|zuHause> no, those are the reservation highlights 22:57:08 <lucas92> but I don't see any for a flat land 22:57:13 <lucas92> huh? 22:57:14 <Eddi|zuHause> not the build highlights 22:57:38 <lucas92> which ones? 22:58:09 <Eddi|zuHause> decode trg1r.grf or look at the opengfx repo to find out which number corresponds to which sprite 22:58:49 <lucas92> ok 22:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but the sprites you seek are probably in openttd.grf 22:59:42 <Eddi|zuHause> so they would be in media/extra_grf/ 22:59:56 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the png files there 23:01:33 <lucas92> yeah, there is an autorail png 23:01:46 <lucas92> this could be a replacement for the road highlighting 23:01:49 <lucas92> for now 23:02:12 <Eddi|zuHause> well, road bits work slightly different than rail bits 23:03:28 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and if you need proper sprites, i believe i have seen some in the forum already 23:04:03 <lucas92> SPR_IMG_AUTOROAD? 23:04:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but the functionality is important, the sprites can be done later 23:04:11 <lucas92> that's the one to replace? 23:04:28 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that's the button in the GUI 23:05:04 <lucas92> aww 23:05:13 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95.25.14.215] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:05:52 <lucas92> I don't see those highlight sprites 23:08:23 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BC7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:02 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:15 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:11:51 <lucas92> does it have anything to do with the TileHighlightingData? 23:12:53 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 23:13:21 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly, not entirely sure 23:13:44 *** Chris_Booth_ [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 23:14:41 <lucas92> SPR_AUTORAIL_BASE? 23:15:38 <lucas92> DrawSelectionSprite? 23:18:59 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:12 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 23:19:34 <lucas92> anyway got to go 23:19:41 *** lucas92 [~lucas92@bas2-stlambert20-2925120089.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:20:07 <Eddi|zuHause> ... that sounds like the right place 23:25:23 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 23:27:55 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:33:44 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:36:12 *** V453000 [~V453000@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 23:36:35 <V453000> hi, does anyone remember how large (if any) is the maximum area in which a lumber mill can cut trees? 23:41:20 <Yexo> a 40x40 area, so I think north tile of industry -20,-20 to north tile of industry +20,+20 23:41:46 <V453000> awesome, thanks 23:42:16 <V453000> *lumber mill heaven* 23:46:58 *** tty234 [telex@anapnea.net] has joined #openttd 23:48:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: that is an 41x41 area 23:52:46 <V453000> +-1 tile doesnt matter much :) 23:54:09 <V453000> rather interesting is that I have a lumber mill and it doesnt want to chop more than 8 tiles away from sides of the industry (not the placement tile) 23:54:22 <V453000> maybe I am just impatient :) 23:55:36 <Eddi|zuHause> it goes in circles around the industry and takes the first tree tile it can find. so if a new tree appears in the already chopped area, it will take that one 23:55:56 <V453000> yeah, but I would expect it to eat all of them in time :) 23:56:08 <Eddi|zuHause> (i could be talking rubbish though, and i have never played with the tropical saw mill) 23:56:21 <V453000> me neither :) 23:57:25 <Eddi|zuHause> in rainforest, over 200 times more trees get planted than in temperate/arctic 23:57:28 *** Biolunar_ [~mahdi@blfd-5d823a75.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 23:58:53 <Mazur> You couold find out by clearing the area round the mill and them building a ring of trees on the outer edge, alternating between the 40² and 41² areas. 23:59:13 <V453000> fair point :) 23:59:19 <Mazur> If trees still get chopped, you can fill in the rest. 23:59:30 <V453000> but I rather need to know what is the largest possible area the mill can really cut down 23:59:37 * Mazur has its moments.