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00:02:14 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-219-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:18:43 <hgnmu128> OPs, can't the TTDPatch LocalStyleGuide be merged with the tt-wiki Manual of Style? 00:19:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C533.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:19:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C533.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 00:21:45 *** hgnmu128 [~hgnmu128@117.204.84.200] has left #openttd [] 00:22:38 *** hgnmu128 [~hgnmu128@117.204.84.200] has joined #openttd 00:27:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C533.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:28:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C533.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 00:32:35 *** Bilge [~bilge@92.28.197.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:37:51 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.176.109] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 00:39:52 *** hgnmu128 [~hgnmu128@117.204.84.200] has quit [Quit: Nothing_to_see_here] 00:55:35 *** JVassie_ [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:04:58 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:14:53 *** fjb is now known as Guest4504 01:14:54 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFC936.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:21:42 *** Guest4504 [~frank@p5DDFD82B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:35:39 *** hgnmu128 [~hgnmu128@117.204.84.200] has joined #openttd 01:51:54 *** hgnmu128_ [~hgnmu128@117.204.90.90] has joined #openttd 01:51:55 *** hgnmu128 [~hgnmu128@117.204.84.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:51:57 *** hgnmu128_ is now known as hgnmu128 01:55:14 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:55:19 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B1076D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:55:56 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:09 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B10480F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:03:44 *** hgnmu128 [~hgnmu128@117.204.90.90] has quit [Quit: to bed] 02:04:19 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 02:10:39 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:1956:990e:2a54:a04d] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:23:08 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:26:15 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-207-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:30:24 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-088-076-110-163.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:22:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C533.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:26:37 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C533.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 03:43:18 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:51:03 *** rash [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 03:51:10 <rash> hello pals 03:52:13 <rash> generate button is non clickable, ubuntu...anyone? 03:57:02 <rash> silly bug 03:57:06 *** rash [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:07:07 <planetmaker> moin 04:42:17 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.68] has joined #openttd 04:51:06 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 04:53:32 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 04:55:03 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22586 /trunk/ (changelog.txt known-bugs.txt os/debian/changelog readme.txt): -Merge: documentation updates from 1.1 04:55:39 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B774BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:56:14 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22587 /trunk/known-bugs.txt: -Fix: inconsistency in known-bugs.txt 05:02:46 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7682E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:19:33 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 05:23:30 *** KouDy [~KouDy@pub212004071029.fx-hfc.datazug.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:43:44 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:44:35 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:59:47 <Terkhen> good morning 06:04:26 <planetmaker> moin Terkhen 06:06:03 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.68] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 06:14:31 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0f84fe.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:15:09 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 06:26:30 *** Amis [~Amis@dsl51B65507.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 06:27:02 *** Amis_ [~Amis@dsl51B65507.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 06:34:33 *** [WOODY] [woodygfx@79.118.35.127] has joined #openttd 06:34:36 *** Amis [~Amis@dsl51B65507.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:41:25 *** Juo [~Juo@82.132.248.157] has joined #openttd 06:46:16 *** JVassie_ [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 06:47:17 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:55:02 *** Juo [~Juo@82.132.248.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:09:51 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC576D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:16:54 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:19:26 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:20:38 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-182-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:27:09 *** KouDy [~KouDy@pub212004071029.fx-hfc.datazug.ch] has joined #openttd 07:42:52 <Terkhen> planetmaker: will the script convert < to < and > to >? 07:44:55 *** KouDy [~KouDy@pub212004071029.fx-hfc.datazug.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:55:15 *** Juo [~Juo@82.132.248.160] has joined #openttd 07:57:40 *** Juo_ [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 07:58:28 *** Juo_ [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:44 *** Juo_ [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:02:46 *** xi234 [~xi23@ip-85-161-245-158.eurotel.cz] has joined #openttd 08:03:17 *** Juo [~Juo@82.132.248.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:03:23 *** Juo_ is now known as Juo 08:04:35 *** Bilge [~bilge@92.28.197.104] has joined #openttd 08:04:38 *** Mks [~mks@c83-176-234-98.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:08:03 *** xi23 [~xi23@ip-85-161-75-68.eurotel.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:16:08 *** Juo_ [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:18:34 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:18:34 *** Juo_ is now known as Juo 08:24:13 <planetmaker> Terkhen, I think it doesn't do that atm. Probably issues with the & 08:24:22 <planetmaker> or the > and <. 08:24:34 <Terkhen> hmm... ok 08:25:25 <planetmaker> would be helpful, eh? :-) 08:25:32 <Terkhen> yes :) 08:26:09 <Terkhen> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/index.php?title=VarAction2Advanced&curid=52&diff=1091&oldid=1090 <--- some pages are full of those :P 08:27:49 <planetmaker> hm, Terkhen should work. Maybe it's not included in the uploaded version 08:28:12 <planetmaker> try to add two lines which read like s/>/>/g 08:28:21 <planetmaker> and accordingly for < 08:28:25 <planetmaker> or is that part of it? 08:28:47 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: TTW - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 08:28:57 <planetmaker> yes... the uploaded version doesn't have it 08:29:03 <planetmaker> but easy to add 08:29:28 <planetmaker> in wikised 08:29:37 <Terkhen> I don't know; I have only been working in that page so I did not try to apply it yet, but I will for the following ones 08:29:47 <planetmaker> :-) 08:29:51 <Terkhen> do I need something else besides http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/wikised.txt 08:29:53 <Terkhen> ? 08:30:24 <planetmaker> yes, the script which calls it:http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/fixwiki.sh 08:30:38 <planetmaker> mind that it uses hard-coded filenames. You'll want to adopt that 08:31:49 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 08:31:50 <Terkhen> ok, thank you :) 08:32:15 <planetmaker> no worries 08:33:07 <planetmaker> what you'll have to fix manually: for each wiki-link `a la [[wikipage|description] it'll add a |-\n| at the beginning of the paragraph 08:33:41 <planetmaker> And you'll probably need to adjust the headers / introduction section. 08:34:07 <planetmaker> And examples. They *should* work without the <pre> tag and the +- and -+ 08:34:18 <planetmaker> (you could add the removal of +- and -+ to the sed script, too) 08:34:36 <planetmaker> s/+-//g 08:34:39 <planetmaker> s/-+//g 08:35:25 <planetmaker> I noticed that the newgrf wiki has 94 pages. And about 66 were not touched this morning. So we did about 25% yesterday 08:36:01 <Terkhen> that's nice :) 08:36:10 <Terkhen> I touched varaction2vehicles but it is far from finished :P 08:36:17 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:36:32 <planetmaker> yes, there are others which need another re-touch, too 08:36:42 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:36:50 <planetmaker> but well. Most important is that the tables become readible and that no content is missing 08:37:06 <planetmaker> fixing the other style is secondary to that 08:37:37 <Terkhen> agreed :) 08:37:39 <planetmaker> which again has precedence over nice classes and beautyfication changes ;-) 08:38:14 <Terkhen> once that everything is done, it would be nice to add missing variables to the specs 08:38:43 <Terkhen> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VarAction2Cities <--- there are far more than 3 town variables for example 08:39:01 <Terkhen> they were documented in other place IIRC but IMO this should contain the entire list 08:39:29 <planetmaker> yes, I very much support that. 08:39:46 <planetmaker> I was slightly annoyed about them missing previously. But... well... 08:40:04 <planetmaker> one cannot complain if one could fix it oneself somewhat easily ;-) 08:40:40 <Terkhen> yes but now it is easier :P 08:41:34 <Terkhen> hmm... I should probably hurry to do the part where town storage must be documented... if I had any clue about the right place 08:42:24 <planetmaker> Terkhen, exactly ;-) 08:42:36 <planetmaker> And... somehow I'd be more motivated if it's found in a place with future ;-) 08:42:42 <Terkhen> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VarAction2Advanced <--- given that this is the only mention of "storage", maybe it needs a new page now that it is more complex 08:42:48 <Terkhen> that too :P 08:43:25 <Terkhen> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2 <--- oh, this one mentions it as "persistent data" 08:43:48 <Terkhen> one is read, the other is store, so maybe I should add a new page for storage 08:43:51 <planetmaker> hm... Terkhen you don't need to fix it. But make a list of such "same thing, different name" 08:43:51 <Terkhen> hmm... not sure 08:43:56 <planetmaker> I can then bot-edit all pages later 08:44:15 <planetmaker> that's something I can do as it's a simple word / phrase replace 08:44:59 <planetmaker> now that you mentioned that: doing such thing would very generally be a very good thing, I guess 08:45:06 <Terkhen> not worth the effort in this case IMO; there are only three appearances 08:45:11 <planetmaker> there are many places where the same thing is called differently 08:45:16 <Terkhen> but definitely needed for other places and terms 08:45:29 <Terkhen> I'll add it to the todo list 08:54:25 <Terkhen> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/TermConsistency <--- I'm not sure if this is the best way to list the problems :P 08:56:12 <Yexo> Terkhen: have fun with: sprite / action / real sprite / action sprite / pseudo sprite 08:56:33 <Yexo> although the wiki might even be consistent, the rest of the information is definitely not 08:57:12 <Terkhen> I'm not 100% sure of the relation between all those terms myself :P 08:57:25 <Terkhen> what do you mean with the "rest of the information"? 08:57:41 <Yexo> nml documentation, tutorials on various sites, tt-forums 08:58:08 <Terkhen> hmm... I see :/ 08:59:04 *** Juo_ [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:59:17 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:59:18 *** Juo_ is now known as Juo 09:02:33 <JVassie_> hi Yexo o/ 09:08:34 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:18:59 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:21:53 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 09:23:06 <Yexo> hey JVassie_ 09:23:25 <JVassie_> did you get a chance to have a read through the PM at all? 09:23:27 <Yexo> got your msg all right, looks good :) 09:23:30 <JVassie_> ah good :) 09:23:47 <JVassie_> I hope it all made sense, was getting tired towards the end of it! :p 09:25:35 <Yexo> it did 09:25:41 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 09:30:18 <JVassie_> gonna be quite complex to code all the features i think :s as well as direction and adjacent tiles, some tiles have passenger graphics drawn (dependent on waitign cargo), some tiles have track, some dont, some have a roof/canopy/etc 09:30:23 <JVassie_> quite a lot of combinations 09:31:01 <JVassie_> mind you, dont really know how complex till i get into it i guess :p 09:33:06 <Ammler> the spec is also a bit inconsistent about calling ActionX, sometimes "Action X", sometimes ActionX 09:33:32 <Ammler> spelling* 09:35:21 <Terkhen> and which one would be more correct? 09:36:55 <Ammler> the main article title is without 09:39:34 <Ammler> it is specially silly, as sometimes you see wiki entries, where it uses [[Action7|Action 7]], so it looks like intendend 09:41:14 <Terkhen> IMO it is more clear with an space 09:41:19 <Terkhen> s/an/a/ 09:41:27 <Terkhen> but I don't mind either way 09:43:28 <Ammler> hmm, maybe tikiwiki didn't allow title with space? 09:43:50 <Terkhen> I don't know, but the title should not have spaces 09:44:17 <Terkhen> bbl 09:45:27 <Ammler> indeed, it would end in Action_X, which might be uglier... :-) 09:50:19 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 10:08:23 <planetmaker> Dunno. We just need to decide one way or another. The api also allows renaming of pages ;-) 10:10:28 <Ammler> wouldn't it be easier to use categories to create index pages? 10:10:51 <planetmaker> maybe. But they need adding, too :-) 10:11:02 <planetmaker> And that's something for later when pages are restored 10:11:29 <Ammler> it could also make history navigation 10:17:37 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A9CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:22:09 <planetmaker> what is 'history navigation'? 10:26:31 *** keky___ [~stefan@p5098b65a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:30:33 *** Fzero^ [~Fzero@p5791490D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:30:40 <Ammler> oh, meant hirarchical 10:31:09 <Fzero^> hi :) 10:31:10 <planetmaker> yes, possibly. I guess it's worth looking into that when things consolidate a bit 10:31:15 <planetmaker> We have no category so far at all 10:31:17 <planetmaker> hi Fzero^ 10:31:43 <planetmaker> Ammler, and indeed, I plan(ned) to introduce categories. But... when we know how things look like ;-) 10:36:07 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:42:05 <planetmaker> Terkhen, you can download a new version of wikised 10:42:37 <Chris_Booth> good morning all 10:44:04 <planetmaker> moin Chris_Booth 10:44:35 <Chris_Booth> how is everyone on this fine sunny day 10:45:14 <planetmaker> sunny? It's been raining cats and dogs a bit earlier 10:46:01 <Chris_Booth> not here in england 10:46:11 <Chris_Booth> we haven't had rain for ever 10:51:15 <peter1138> it pissed it down this weekend... 10:51:19 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 10:51:23 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [] 10:52:37 <Eddi|zuHause> it rains here right now 10:52:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's awfully dark 10:55:56 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 10:58:53 <Terkhen> planetmaker: ok, thanks :) 10:58:57 <Terkhen> I'll do some pages now 11:02:05 <planetmaker> it works much better now :-) 11:02:17 <planetmaker> I just did two pages w/o manual edits afterwards 11:02:34 <Terkhen> great :) 11:03:56 <Fzero^> can some support me in german :D? my englich istn well ^^ :/ 11:06:06 <Ammler> Fzero^: tt-ms.de :-) 11:06:16 <Fzero^> :) thx 11:09:17 <Terkhen> planetmaker: the ones at the end (except maybe the last one) don't look very universal :) 11:09:31 <Terkhen> they probably don't hurt either 11:10:34 <planetmaker> yes, they're not, but that's also not their intention ;-) 11:12:00 <planetmaker> btw... fixed the error with < 11:12:06 <planetmaker> it was spellt wrongly 11:12:15 <planetmaker> thus... download again :-P 11:12:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a great piece of art to misspell a two letter word ;) 11:12:52 <planetmaker> yup 11:12:58 <planetmaker> but it's not a word ;-) 11:13:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C285.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:13:14 <planetmaker> also... you as saxonian shouldn't mind the difference between d and t :-P 11:13:42 <Eddi|zuHause> related: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuwzk8gQRho 11:13:54 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: half-saxonian ;) 11:16:09 *** KingJ [~KingJ-OFT@95.154.197.17] has joined #openttd 11:16:44 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: funnily enough, i had that problem just yesterday when trying to type "ptbtime1.ptb.de" 11:17:23 <Terkhen> planetmaker: s/Format: /'''Format:''' /gi <--- this fixes lower case formats and also sets them in bold (for varaction2vars) 11:19:13 <Terkhen> hmm... the script also breaks links in the format [[WikiPage|name] 11:19:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C533.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:20:04 <Terkhen> but I don't know enough regex magic to define "matches | and is not surrounded by [string | string]" :P 11:20:56 <Yexo> can't you make it simpler? ie match | surrounded by spaces? 11:21:24 <Terkhen> sorry, it has no spaces 11:23:10 <Eddi|zuHause> typical case of "there are no girls on the internet": "Syrian blogger Amina 'A Gay Girl in Damascus' Arraf turns out to actually be Tom McAlister from Georgia, currently residing in Edinburgh. Also the editor of 'Lez Get Real', Paula Brooks is actually Bill Graber from Ohio, who took on the identity of his wife. The two actually flirted with each other, neither realizing the other was a man." 11:26:55 <Eddi|zuHause> <Terkhen> but I don't know enough regex magic to define "matches | and is not surrounded by [string | string]" :P <-- something like replacing \[([^|]*)|([^|])\] with a temporary symbol, e.g. %, then replacing remaining |, and replacing the temporary symbol back 11:27:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... missing something 11:27:30 <Eddi|zuHause> \[([^|\]]*)|([^|\]])*\] 11:27:50 <Terkhen> :O 11:27:56 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:28:03 <Terkhen> nice, let's test it 11:28:03 <Eddi|zuHause> can be replaced by something like \[%\] 11:28:16 <planetmaker> Terkhen, does the current version really break links for you? 11:28:28 <Terkhen> planetmaker: if they are inside tables, yes 11:28:43 <planetmaker> hm... 11:29:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the temporary symbol better be something that doesn't occur naturally ;) 11:29:58 <planetmaker> XXXXXXX - so far -did not :-P 11:30:05 <Terkhen> can it be multiple symbols? something like %#% 11:30:11 <planetmaker> yes 11:30:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 11:30:15 <Terkhen> ok :) 11:30:28 <Terkhen> I'll test once I finish with the current page 11:31:57 <planetmaker> well, I only adopt it to the pages I visited. And maybe sometimes I also break what I already added ;-) 11:32:06 <planetmaker> it's mostly one-time use ;-) 11:35:51 <Eddi|zuHause> of course i forgot escaping \| above 11:36:03 * JVassie_ escapes 11:36:47 <Terkhen> I'm going to modify the style for varaction2 pages a bit 11:37:05 <Terkhen> otherwise I'll need to invent introduction for all pages :P 11:38:19 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:38:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so this should work: s/\[([^\|\]]*)\|([^\|\]])*\]/\[%#%\]/g s/\|/whatever/g s/%#%/\|/g 11:38:51 <planetmaker> Terkhen, just leave the introduction. If it's one sentence, that's ok IMHO 11:39:06 <planetmaker> and one sentence usually remains ;-) 11:39:28 <planetmaker> or it's an empty section... to be filled in later 11:39:42 <Terkhen> currently there is no introduction so it will just be an introduction explaining the title: "this page contains varaction2 for vehicles" 11:40:13 <Terkhen> but yes, makes sense 11:40:21 <Terkhen> things that are currently under the variable table should be in the introduction 11:40:24 <Ammler> hehe, planetmaker, did you buy "Das (in)offizielle Handbuch zu OpenTTD"? 11:40:29 <Terkhen> I'll leave it empty though 11:40:54 <planetmaker> Ammler, no. I proof-read it 11:41:30 <planetmaker> thus I have it without buying it ;-) 11:41:51 <Ammler> ah ok, is it better as the wiki? 11:42:33 <Terkhen> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VarAction2Vehicles <--- something like this I guess 11:42:38 <planetmaker> As the German part? Well. It has some parts which are not well translated yet. But where there's a translation (like tutorial), it doesn't really matter 11:43:06 <planetmaker> and, more important, Ammler, it is very limited in depth. Thus the wiki will get you eventually much further 11:43:37 <planetmaker> yes, why not, Terkhen :-) 11:43:44 <planetmaker> I'd just hit 'save' and move on ;-) 11:43:54 <Ammler> well, anyway, he doesn't become rich with it, he should rahter make it os 11:43:55 <Terkhen> ok, I'll update the style guide then :) 11:44:38 <planetmaker> hm, what is different? :-D 11:45:05 <planetmaker> s/Variables/List of Variables/g ? 11:45:54 <Terkhen> it is now more similar to the format used in action0 11:46:11 <planetmaker> right :-) 11:46:21 <planetmaker> I guess that's where my main focus was so far 11:46:28 <Terkhen> :P 11:46:53 <Terkhen> and yes, list of variables should be "variables" 11:47:54 <Terkhen> oh, I forgot the "version" in the table 11:48:05 <Terkhen> I'll leave it empty too, though 11:48:12 <Terkhen> it can be fixed later 11:48:56 *** Fzero^ [~Fzero@p5791490D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 11:49:01 <planetmaker> yup 11:52:17 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:59:51 <Terkhen> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VarAction2Vehicles <--- should all pages with "Size" on the table header have a link to GRFActionsDetailed as this one? 12:01:31 <planetmaker> I didn't yet think about that, but why not? 12:01:53 <Terkhen> I'll add it to the style then :) 12:02:11 <planetmaker> :-) 12:03:24 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:04:24 <planetmaker> 38 pages visited, 56 to go 12:04:48 <JVassie_> hmm? 12:05:01 <planetmaker> of the newgrf wiki 12:05:03 <Terkhen> time for testing that crazy sed code :) 12:05:15 <planetmaker> 38 pages were touched by *someone* 12:05:19 <planetmaker> 56 are still virgin 12:06:54 <JVassie_> *39 12:06:54 <Eddi|zuHause> rule #1 when testing crazy sed code: have an easily restorable backup ;) 12:07:24 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, the wiki pages don't edit and save themselves ;-) 12:07:32 <planetmaker> thus rule #1 is ensured ;-) 12:07:36 <Terkhen> yes, I'm testing on a local text file :P 12:07:42 <planetmaker> unless I mess up big time with the wiki bot :-P 12:08:10 <planetmaker> but then... there's history 12:08:40 <JVassie_> :p 12:08:45 <JVassie_> dont muck up then :D 12:09:46 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&tagfilter=&contribs=user&target=pm-bot&namespace=&year=&month=-1 <-- still limited edits :-P 12:10:37 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: sed: file wikised.txt line 2: invalid reference on `s' command's RHS 12:10:48 <Terkhen> it only contains: s/\[([^\|\]]*)\|([^\|\]])*\]/\[%#%\]/g 12:11:13 <Eddi|zuHause> err... 12:11:13 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:b0e8:be60:5054:524a] has joined #openttd 12:11:16 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:11:25 <Eddi|zuHause> switch )* to *) 12:11:49 <Eddi|zuHause> (but that shouldn't cause this error) 12:12:23 <Terkhen> yes, the error still happens with that correction 12:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it needs escaping \( and \) 12:15:18 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... still doesn't work properly 12:16:11 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: with those escapes the error is gone for me 12:16:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but it doesn't do what i expect it to do ;) 12:16:50 <Terkhen> [[GRFActionsDetailed|'''Size''']] ----> [|][|]GRFActionsDetailed!!'''Size''[|']] <--- no, it does not :P 12:18:22 <JVassie_> the link should be [[GRFActionsDetailed|'''Size''']] 12:18:42 <JVassie_> its a pipe in the middle not ! 12:19:41 <Terkhen> JVassie_: yes, it is an error of the script 12:19:46 <JVassie_> ah :p 12:19:52 <planetmaker> Ah... Terkhen I think that can be fixed: 12:20:37 <planetmaker> /\[\[[A-Za-z0-9#_-].*|[A-Za-z0-9#_-\. ].*\]\]/s/|/XXXXXX/g ---> /\[\[[A-Za-z0-9#_-].*|[A-Za-z0-9#_-\. '].*\]\]/s/|/XXXXXX/g or /\[\[[A-Za-z0-9#_-].*|[A-Za-z0-9#_-\. \'].*\]\]/s/|/XXXXXX/g 12:20:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: somehow the \] in the [] is not recognized properly 12:20:46 <planetmaker> dunno whether ' needs escaping 12:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and the \| should be unescaped to | 12:21:13 <Eddi|zuHause> echo '[te|st]' | sed 's/\[\([^|]*\)|\([^|]*\)\]/\[%#%\]/g' 12:21:15 <Eddi|zuHause> [te%#%st] 12:21:40 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: isn't there like [:alphanum:]? 12:21:49 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, regex are greedy, that will fail for two consecutive links, I think 12:22:06 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, which is why i originally put the \] in 12:23:42 <Terkhen> huh... all three look the same to me 12:23:45 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but you have some ill-placed . in there 12:23:59 <planetmaker> Terkhen, the difference is a ' or \' in the latter two 12:24:17 <planetmaker> I did not consider that character to occur there in the link description 12:24:21 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: don't put . before * 12:24:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the * must be behind the ] 12:24:43 <planetmaker> hm, yes. that's wrong 12:24:58 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:24:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and the \( \) are relevant 12:25:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to include those again 12:25:05 <planetmaker> actually .* --> + 12:25:25 <Eddi|zuHause> that shouldn't really matter 12:26:03 <planetmaker> * also matches no character. We want by definition at least one ;-) 12:26:12 <planetmaker> but that's beside our actual issue 12:28:55 <Eddi|zuHause> the actual issue was why [^\]] does not get interpreted properly 12:29:35 <Terkhen> hmm... how can I upload an image to the wiki? 12:31:03 <planetmaker> Terkhen, click on the image button. Choose a name. Save the page. Click on the resulting link 12:31:21 <Terkhen> oh :P 12:31:34 <Terkhen> thanks 12:31:37 <planetmaker> np 12:35:09 <planetmaker> JVassie_, the <pre> tags can go in most cases. Replace them simply by a leading space for that or those lines. 12:35:22 <planetmaker> Then you can additionally use things like italics or bold 12:35:24 <Terkhen> regarding the link problem, it would also work to have a single command for turning [[string1!!string2]] into [[string1|string2]] at the end 12:35:28 <JVassie_> hmm 12:35:31 <JVassie_> fair enough 12:35:34 <planetmaker> The latter might be interesting to highlight certain bytes. Like the action byte 12:35:39 <JVassie_> thought it was used to make them stand out 12:35:59 <planetmaker> Yes. Nearly same effect visually ;-) 12:36:04 <JVassie_> :p 12:36:13 <planetmaker> except additional formating ;-) 12:36:16 <Terkhen> oh, and [[string1||string2]] into [[string1|string2]] 12:36:52 <planetmaker> Terkhen, no. The links first have to be deprived of the | 12:37:01 <planetmaker> Otherwise the table fixes affect them with side-effects 12:37:06 <Terkhen> oh, ok 12:37:14 <planetmaker> in the end the links must then be restored 12:37:38 <planetmaker> thus the s/[...|...]/[...XXXXXX...]/ and the revert later 12:38:43 <Eddi|zuHause> http://pastebin.com/RVLf7xSM <-- this somehow fails to mention how to check for ] whithin a list 12:41:37 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, i'm just blind 12:41:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it says it right there 12:42:55 <JVassie_> planetmaker, whats {toc} for? 12:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> > echo '[te|st]' | sed 's/\[\([^]|]*\)|\([^]|]*\)\]/\[%#%\]/g' 12:43:15 <Eddi|zuHause> [te%#%st] 12:43:22 <Eddi|zuHause> this works now 12:44:47 <JVassie_> oh 12:44:52 <JVassie_> table of contents 12:44:53 <JVassie_> derr 12:45:07 <Bilge> durr 12:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen, planetmaker: checked this above? 12:46:19 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: I'm finishing a page, I'll test after that :) 12:46:32 <Terkhen> http://marcin.ttdpatch.net/sv1codec/TTD-locations.html <--- what should be do regarding this? 12:46:59 <Terkhen> right now it is linked in many placed 12:47:09 <Terkhen> the document has copyright so we can't just pick the stuff and port it to the specs 12:47:45 <planetmaker> Terkhen, I suggest we integrate that in the appropriate places once the current stuff is readable. 12:48:01 <planetmaker> hm... is it? 12:48:06 <Terkhen> yes, check the bottom 12:48:24 <Eddi|zuHause> keep the links there, and in long-term either try to ask Martin Grzegorczyk for permission, or re-create the information from TTDPatch sources 12:48:35 <planetmaker> openttd sources ;-) 12:48:53 <Terkhen> I was thinking on that, except recreate from openttd sources and let the ttdpatch update to someone else 12:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause> not all of this seems to apply to openttd 12:49:53 <Terkhen> indeed 12:50:19 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. the landscape part is totally different from docs/landscape.html 12:50:54 <Terkhen> but that part should not be part of the specs 12:51:47 <Eddi|zuHause> most important for newgrfs are the 80+ variables 12:54:47 <Terkhen> yes, in the case of those IMO we should keep the link and document the ones we can from openttd code 12:57:30 <planetmaker> if I don't forget I'll write an e-mail tonight 13:00:46 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 13:03:49 <Terkhen> ok :) 13:03:59 <JVassie_> wiki updates are coming along nicely :) 13:05:15 <Terkhen> :) 13:05:18 <planetmaker> I guess we'll have done most basic stuff by the end of the week, if we all keep our pace :-) 13:05:20 <planetmaker> That's nice 13:05:47 <Terkhen> let's test the new sed magic with the next one :P 13:06:04 <Terkhen> VarAction2Cities <--- meh, IMO this should be Towns 13:07:46 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: works fine, thank you :) 13:08:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: i stumbled across that as well 13:08:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i support this change ;) 13:08:26 <Terkhen> I'll add it to the todo list :) 13:08:49 <planetmaker> ok :-) 13:09:03 <planetmaker> _now_ we can do that :-P 13:09:22 <planetmaker> before we couldn't even edit the TOC 13:10:03 <Terkhen> TOC? 13:10:10 <planetmaker> Table Of Contents 13:10:13 <Terkhen> oh :P 13:11:24 <JVassie_> Terkhen, ive made some additions to the list too :p 13:11:29 <Terkhen> :) 13:11:48 <planetmaker> yes, please keep it coming :-) 13:11:49 <JVassie_> more examples we have in the specs the better i think 13:12:02 <planetmaker> Yoda your father is? :-P 13:12:15 <JVassie_> believe so I 13:12:22 <Terkhen> I think that splitting Item into Page and Description would be good :) 13:12:26 <Terkhen> (in the todo list) 13:12:28 <JVassie_> *believe so I do 13:14:19 <Ammler> if you keep the copyright, you can copy it, can't you? 13:14:33 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it doesn't work like that 13:15:24 <planetmaker> not at all 13:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you have a piece of paper that says "you can copy it", you can't. 13:15:32 <planetmaker> otherwise I could also copy $movie or $cd 13:17:24 <Terkhen> I think that giving tables a background colour slightly darker than the page background colour would improve readability (as done in the ttdpatch wiki) 13:17:39 <Belugas> hello 13:18:20 <JVassie_> i agree Terkhen 13:18:28 <JVassie_> only slightly though 13:18:58 <planetmaker> Terkhen, yes, I agree. 13:19:15 <JVassie_> make it happen buddy :p 13:19:18 <planetmaker> it's one of those things I postponed atm 13:20:00 <Terkhen> ok :) 13:21:07 <JVassie_> I think the combination of merging the wikis, giving them a facelift, and hopefully including more examples will see more budding NFO devs start appearing 13:21:49 <Terkhen> that would be great :) 13:22:26 <JVassie_> hmm 13:22:34 <Terkhen> maybe "make an example" entries should have their own table in the todo list, otherwise other items will get drown in them :P 13:22:36 <JVassie_> one thing the sidebar is missing is a link to the main tt-wiki, no? 13:22:41 <Terkhen> s/make/write 13:22:45 <JVassie_> good idea 13:22:46 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:22:50 <JVassie_> ill split them out 13:23:19 <planetmaker> good point. I actually edited a lot of pages... but indeed did not add it to the todo as I didn't think of it. 13:23:31 <planetmaker> they lack an example, too 13:23:52 <Terkhen> neither did I... all varaction2var pages will be missing an introduction and an example, so I'll add them all in a single modification later 13:25:34 <JVassie_> ToDo list edited 13:25:39 <JVassie_> split the two types out 13:25:45 <Terkhen> ok :) 13:26:04 <JVassie_> <JVassie_> one thing the sidebar is missing is a link to the main tt-wiki, no? 13:26:10 <JVassie_> reckon it should be added? 13:26:14 <orudge> JVassie_: I would say yes 13:26:20 <orudge> and I would also say they should be coordinated in some way 13:26:23 <orudge> but we can work on that later 13:26:29 <JVassie_> coordinated in what sense? 13:26:47 <JVassie_> Hmm just remember I can edit sidebar, /me pokes planetmaker 13:26:50 <JVassie_> *cant 13:26:54 <orudge> maintaining a roughly similar order and entries to certain common sites 13:26:59 <orudge> but as I say, we can sort that out later 13:27:01 <JVassie_> ah yes I see 13:27:42 <JVassie_> TT Wiki is lacking a lot of the links that are in the grf specs currently 13:27:50 <JVassie_> aye 13:30:11 *** hgnmu128 [~hgnmu128@117.204.80.100] has joined #openttd 13:31:40 <Terkhen> http://www.pathscale.com/ekopath4-open-source-announcement <--- does openttd compile with this? :P 13:35:31 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe64de00-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:36:04 <hgnmu128> Starting at 95? Yes it should. Pfft. 13:36:28 <Yexo> the nightly build is a free download 13:37:09 <hgnmu128> How much is it? Bandwidth costs me. :| 13:39:10 <Terkhen> hgnmu128: the announcement is about it going open source :P 13:39:44 <Terkhen> it seems that I have something difficult and probably not worth the effort to test :) 13:41:58 <Terkhen> really not worth the effort, as it is for multicore apps :P 13:43:32 <George> Why do bold style does not work in codes? http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/ECSVTranslation 13:44:06 <Terkhen> JVassie_: class="wikitable" is not required anymore 13:44:53 <Terkhen> George: IIRC you have to substitute <pre> with a single space at the start of the line 13:45:14 *** hgnmu128_ [~hgnmu128@117.201.248.174] has joined #openttd 13:45:31 *** hgnmu128_ [~hgnmu128@117.201.248.174] has left #openttd [] 13:45:32 <JVassie_> oh now you tell me :D 13:46:08 <Terkhen> sorry, I only noticed when I reached one of the varactions you edited :P 13:46:30 <George> Terkhen: does not help :( 13:46:35 *** hgnmu128 [~hgnmu128@117.204.80.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:46:57 <George> can you fix one case to illustrate? 13:47:04 *** hgnmu128 [~hgnmu128@117.201.248.174] has joined #openttd 13:47:07 <Terkhen> sure 13:48:22 <hgnmu128> 13:39:10 <@Terkhen> hgnmu128: the announcement is about it going open source 13:48:22 <Terkhen> George: http://www.tt-wiki.net/index.php?title=ECSVTranslation&diff=5489&oldid=1537 <--- note the space at the start of the line 13:48:58 <hgnmu128> I saw that, on the next page was 'Starting at 95'. I didn't notice the nightly link, my bad. 13:49:36 <Terkhen> it's understandable that the cost caught your eye :P 13:50:37 <George> Terkhen: ''' disappeared, but no bold style is provided 13:51:02 <Terkhen> hmm... it appears as bold to me 13:51:07 <Terkhen> it is barely noticeable, though 13:51:18 <hgnmu128> Hmm. I heard someone (who has gone wacko) complain about me making the wiki intros bold. I didn't make them. I left the line unedited. I removed the normal text intro. My bad (again?). 13:52:38 <orudge> hgnmu128: generally, the pages imported from TikiWiki have redundant lines at the top. For instance, http://www.tt-wiki.net/index.php?title=Installation&diff=4593&oldid=2003 13:52:43 <JVassie_> <Terkhen> sorry, I only noticed when I reached one of the varactions you edited :P 13:52:45 <JVassie_> no worries :D 13:52:50 <orudge> they should generally be removed, as the page title should already be descriptive enough 13:52:54 <George> Terkhen: Hm, at 200% zoom it is bold. but with no zoom it is not seen. How to fix it? 13:53:10 <orudge> In some cases one line of description may be appropriate: http://www.tt-wiki.net/index.php?title=AutorenewalOfOldVehicles&diff=4647&oldid=550 13:53:11 <JVassie_> New signature on tt-forums \o/ 13:53:12 <planetmaker> hgnmu128, you could just follow Style guidelines which you asked to be put into place ;-) 13:53:41 <hgnmu128> orudge: I know. The style guide does *not* say intro should not be in bold, explicitly, anyway. ;) 13:53:46 <Terkhen> George: I guess that the style for that type of text needs to be changed 13:53:49 <orudge> Oh, well, no, it shouldn't. 13:54:07 <Terkhen> probably as a global change 13:54:12 <Terkhen> but I don't know how to do that :P 13:54:44 <planetmaker> generally the pages (at least on the newgrf wiki) should start with an introduction 2nd order topic. And then it needs removal of the first two lines which are somewhat redundant. 13:54:55 <hgnmu128> I think Owen can do that by editing the appropriate sections in the CSS. 13:55:24 <planetmaker> hgnmu128, the wikis have a Media:Common.css (or similar) which you probably could also edit 13:55:44 <planetmaker> But it's a good idea to install Firebug (or similar) and thus test a style change locally first before doing so 13:56:01 <hgnmu128> planetmaker: didn't know I could do that. 13:56:02 <planetmaker> there are MANY inter-dependencies, so any change is not exactly straight forward 13:56:11 <hgnmu128> I do have Firebug, anyway. 13:56:12 <planetmaker> hgnmu128, I don't know, but at least worth a try ;-) 13:56:18 <orudge> What exactly is the problem in this case, hgnmu128 / George? 13:56:36 <orudge> if we're looking at http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/ECSVTranslation, I see bold bits in the <pre> - is that the issue? 13:56:43 <orudge> since it seems fine here for me (Firefox 4 on Windows 7) 13:57:08 <hgnmu128> Nobody's getting *my* point yet. GoneWacko complained earlier on this channel (or tycoon) that I made the introduction in bold text. He said it was ugly and it should be edited by CSS. All that happens when I was offline and... 13:57:40 <planetmaker> he's totally right with that. Large-scale text style should be CSS 13:57:42 <hgnmu128> *introductions to the TikiWiki ported redundant title-intro pages 13:58:00 <orudge> Indeed. However, since they shouldn't be there anyway, let's not argue about it :) 13:58:11 <planetmaker> And I'm personally not convinced that the introduction(s) should be bold face 13:58:13 * orudge shall get some work done on the wiki shortly, anyway 13:58:18 <orudge> I would say they shouldn't 14:00:09 <hgnmu128> ... I know I couldn't agree more, but I didn't get a chance to talk with him after that. On the original (unformatted) pages, there was two lines of intro (yeah, the redundant ones), one in bold italics and the other in normal typeface. I just removed the normal line and left the bold one untouched. Sorry about that, 14:00:26 <orudge> well, I wouldn't worry about it 14:00:27 <planetmaker> I usually delete the bold one 14:00:43 * hgnmu128 's network is having some real trouble 14:00:44 <planetmaker> but indeed sounds like no biggy whichever way 14:00:54 *** hgnmu128 [~hgnmu128@117.201.248.174] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830]] 14:00:55 <George> orudge: this bold text is seen only at high zoom (FF4, WinXP) 14:01:13 <George> do you need screenshots? 14:01:20 <orudge> George: might be handy. It works fine for me, as I say. 14:01:23 <orudge> I'll test in some other browsers, too 14:01:30 *** hgnmu128 [~hgnmu128@117.201.248.174] has joined #openttd 14:01:49 <orudge> hmm, it looks fine in both IE and Google Chrome 14:01:55 <orudge> as well as Firefox, as I mentioned before 14:01:57 <Yexo> looks fine for me in FF4 too 14:02:05 <hgnmu128> What does? 14:02:18 <orudge> the bold text 14:02:35 *** Chris_Booth is now known as Guest4558 14:03:42 <hgnmu128> I missed that part. Will slightly colorizing the to-be-bold text solve the problem? I don't know if that's apt, but, whatever. 14:04:38 * planetmaker fancies simple designs ;-) 14:04:45 <George> http://george.zernebok.net/temp/Untitled-1.jpg 14:05:28 <orudge> George: the top one is bold, I can see that here 14:05:35 <orudge> it's perhaps just not that obvious 14:05:39 <planetmaker> I see it in both cases 14:05:39 <George> I can't 14:05:50 <planetmaker> same bytes are bold 14:06:01 <orudge> as I say, it's perhaps a little less obvious, but it's definitely bold 14:06:20 <George> 1920x1080 on 23" Samsung 14:06:24 <planetmaker> George, how does the source of that look like? 14:06:27 <hgnmu128> Can you turn down the font smoothing a bit, then look again? 14:06:46 <planetmaker> is the bold intended? Or not? 14:06:52 <Terkhen> I can barely distinguish that the text is bold with at 1280x1024 14:06:57 <George> 21 * 34 04 0A '''FF''' 01 '''00 D0''' 94 80 " should be built in towns" 00 14:07:17 <planetmaker> George, ''' indicates that bold text shall follow up to the next ''' 14:07:24 <planetmaker> and it works obviously 14:07:49 <George> it works on 200% zoom, yes 14:07:54 <planetmaker> If you don't want that (but I think you do), remove the ''' 14:08:03 <George> And I suppose on 100% too, but I can't see it 14:08:05 <Terkhen> it is a problem of visibility IMO 14:08:09 <planetmaker> George, then it's your local font / font smoothing 14:08:48 <George> Well, in case other people see that fine it would not be much problem for me 14:08:51 <planetmaker> it's less obvious than one will wish for, definitely 14:08:53 <hgnmu128> That's what I said! :| 14:09:09 *** Chris_Booth [~chris@89.192.10.253] has joined #openttd 14:09:26 <Chris_Booth> Afternoon all 14:10:25 <Terkhen> hi Chris_Booth 14:10:31 <hgnmu128> By the way, I've been offline since early morning, what happened to M.Blunck's copyright and shit? 14:10:33 <George> where is this page http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=StringCodes in the new wiki? 14:10:47 <hgnmu128> I noticed that too. 14:11:05 <Chris_Booth> M.Blunck grrr 14:11:07 <hgnmu128> There is a link at the bottom of the ECS pages, leading to a page creation. 14:11:15 <Terkhen> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/StringCodes <--- here, but it does not seem to be linked anywhere 14:11:28 <Terkhen> wait, I'll fix the format 14:11:32 <planetmaker> :-) 14:12:02 <George> How to make the right link to it from http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/ECSVTranslation & 14:12:05 <George> ? 14:12:26 <hgnmu128> Done! 14:12:27 <George> (different domains) 14:13:16 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Special:LonelyPages <-- it must be linked *somewhere*, Terkhen ;-) 14:13:35 <Yexo> George: [http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/StringCodes String codes] 14:13:38 <hgnmu128> Yep, different dimains. 14:13:44 <Yexo> everything after the first space will be used as link text 14:13:51 <hgnmu128> *domains 14:14:05 <hgnmu128> I edited it already. Sorry. :| 14:14:59 <hgnmu128> planetmaker: WhatLinksHere shows only the links from the current domain, does it not? 14:15:07 <Terkhen> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/StringCodes <--- the format is fixed now 14:15:08 <planetmaker> yes 14:15:31 <George> You fix pages so fast - do you have a script? 14:15:37 <planetmaker> yes ;-) 14:15:41 <George> If yes, can you fix ECS pages too? 14:15:48 <planetmaker> it still takes time... 14:15:55 <George> Please ^) 14:16:11 <Terkhen> IIRC a bot was going to be able to do that 14:16:24 <planetmaker> hopefully ;-) 14:16:28 <George> when? 14:16:43 <planetmaker> when it's done. Sorry, dunno, it's a bit uncharted territory for me 14:17:12 <planetmaker> maybe it's quicker to do it by hand than me figuring out how to write that in python 14:17:33 <Terkhen> planetmaker: what about creating a small website that applies the script to the given text? 14:17:36 <planetmaker> I can edit. But I have not yet managed to put the whole regex stuff into the python script 14:17:55 <hgnmu128> planetmaker: But it is better in the long run, I guess. 14:18:15 <planetmaker> hgnmu128, it's only crude a conversion script. Thus for the one-time use now mostly 14:18:34 <planetmaker> simple edits are feasible already, out of box for the pywikibot 14:18:55 <hgnmu128> In case someone creates new TikiWikis on TTD and Owen decides to merge them into tt-wiki. 14:19:03 <planetmaker> lol 14:19:42 *** Chris_Booth [~chris@89.192.10.253] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:20:13 <planetmaker> anyway, I'll give the bot a bit more thought later today, though I won't have much time tonight and tomorrow neither 14:20:36 <planetmaker> there's a path. But it's paved with python syntax boulders to stumble over ;-) 14:20:48 <hgnmu128> I don't see the bot on the prowl on the wiki, anyway... Does anyone else? 14:21:02 <planetmaker> ? 14:22:00 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&tagfilter=&contribs=user&target=pm-bot&namespace=&year=&month=-1 <-- it was only present two times so far (and I rolled back the 1st) 14:23:01 *** Chris_Booth [~chris@89.192.10.253] has joined #openttd 14:23:02 <planetmaker> George, I'll try to get it work. if not... doing it the manual way... at this pace it'll take approx a week I guess 14:23:31 <orudge> For what it's worth, I'll have a long time in airport lounges next week, so if nothing else, I can spend the time working my way through wiki pages :P 14:23:34 <planetmaker> how many pages are the ECS pages, George ? 14:24:33 <George> 214 if I'm not mistaken 14:24:40 <planetmaker> woot?! 14:24:41 <Terkhen> wow :P 14:24:53 <planetmaker> that's 225% of the whole NewGRF wiki 14:25:13 <hgnmu128> lol 14:25:18 <George> I count the number of pages exported from the old wiki 14:25:32 <Yexo> of most of those are translations they'll be easy to fix automatically though 14:25:56 <George> less than 33% were exported 14:26:20 <orudge> all pages were exported from the old wiki, except the two problematic pages, and the German and Russian translations 14:26:37 <orudge> (which were problematic for the same reason, due to the non-ASCII characters, unfortunately) 14:26:38 <planetmaker> George, you use perl, do you? 14:26:39 <George> =214/3-2 14:26:46 <planetmaker> or do you have access to sed? 14:26:46 <George> Yes, I do 14:26:48 <orudge> if somebody is knowledgeable enough in Python, they can perhaps try to fix the script I used to fix those 14:27:20 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/wikised <-- those are replacement rules for sed to throw on the page(s) in that very succession 14:27:27 <Terkhen> sed can be installed on windows easily: http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/sed.htm 14:27:50 <Yexo> orudge: is that script available somewhere? 14:28:06 <planetmaker> sed 'N; s/\n|-/|-/g; P; D' <-- that is then needed in a last run 14:28:27 <planetmaker> that's what I basically use currently 14:28:29 <orudge> Yexo: http://mn.lan.owenrudge.net/~orudge/tikiToMwiki.py.txt 14:29:06 <Ammler> maybe the translations are outdated anyway 14:29:36 <Yexo> thanks, might have a look later to see if I can fix that 14:29:47 <George> Well, if your jog with script would fail, I'll have a look at writing my perl scripts. But I hope this would not happen :) 14:29:51 <planetmaker> Yexo, but would that help at this point? 14:30:01 <hgnmu128> Orudge: Do you have an overview of what needs fixing? 14:30:03 <Yexo> dunno, would it? 14:30:06 <Yexo> if not, I won't bother ;) 14:30:10 <Ammler> translations are very bad implemented in openttd. please don't do it similar on newgrf wiki 14:30:13 <orudge> hgnmu128: for what? 14:30:32 <hgnmu128> What could be? For the script. 14:30:35 <planetmaker> Yexo, I'm not too familiar, but the pages are already imported... though orudge certainly has the tikiwiki dump around somewhere 14:30:41 <orudge> hgnmu128: for what script? I'm confused 14:30:42 <Ammler> they screw up search completely 14:30:54 <hgnmu128> You python script. 14:30:56 <orudge> hgnmu128: if you mean the script I just linked Yexo to, that's just for the initial conversion of tiki to mediawiki 14:31:05 <orudge> it chokes when it encounters a non-ASCII character, it seems. 14:31:12 <hgnmu128> *Your 14:31:28 <George> Yexo: of most of those are translations they'll be easy to fix automatically though <- how? They are even not exported to the new wiki 14:31:39 <hgnmu128> But can't that be solved using Unicode? 14:31:57 <orudge> as for multilingual mediawiki, it seems that's something they're planning, but isn't properly implemented. We could have multiple wikis - ie, de.tt-wiki.net, ru.tt-wiki.net, in the same manner as Wikipedia, perhaps. 14:32:21 <Yexo> or you could copy the way the openttd wiki does it, although that's also far from ideal 14:32:24 <hgnmu128> Dream big. 14:32:33 <Ammler> Yexo: that is worst :-) 14:32:42 <orudge> hgnmu128: I don't know Python, so I can't fix it. Somebody who does, hopefully can. :p 14:32:48 <Yexo> George: by fixing the conversion script so they can be exported 14:33:11 <George> Yexo: I hope to see that happen :) 14:33:12 <hgnmu128> But I thought that was *your* script. Is it planetmakers? 14:33:16 <hgnmu128> *'s 14:33:19 <orudge> hgnmu128: no. 14:33:23 <orudge> hgnmu128: you're confusing two scripts here, I think. 14:33:27 <Yexo> hgnmu128: orudge used it, but didn't write it himself 14:33:30 <orudge> planetmaker has a script to tidy up the mediawiki pages. 14:33:31 <Ammler> specially if the only translation is copy the English text 14:33:47 <orudge> my script was one I found online 14:33:52 <orudge> for the initial conversion 14:33:57 <planetmaker> Yexo, it might be easier to put move the sed script into the replace.py of the bot you gave me 14:34:00 <hgnmu128> planetmaker has a shell script, I know. Then who made the python script? 14:34:00 <Yexo> Ammler: that can happen with any system 14:34:04 <hgnmu128> I see it. Got it. 14:34:16 <hgnmu128> *online*, huh? 14:34:37 <Ammler> Yexo: how does that happen in wikimedia? 14:34:55 <Terkhen> oh, VarAction2Objects has examples :) 14:35:06 <planetmaker> it "just" needs kinda not using the current replace method (which is not bad, but... limited) and replace it by the custom one working on the whole page source. I guess I'll canibalize some of the translations bot of yours... and so far.... 14:35:07 <Yexo> someone copies the english page over and only than starts translating 14:35:14 <planetmaker> it's just a steep learning curve for me :-) 14:35:17 <Yexo> if you leave out the "start translating" part you'll end up with a copy of the english page 14:36:08 <hgnmu128> planetmaker: steep learning curve, huh? I read the exact phrase somewhere else... 14:37:47 * Terkhen is also surprised of reading that sentence in a different context than "OpenTTD" 14:37:49 <Ammler> if you you really like again to translate, it might be worth to check how http://www.mediawiki.org does it 14:37:52 <planetmaker> I just can't promise how fast I'll learn ;-) 14:39:20 *** Amis_ [~Amis@dsl51B65507.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:40:06 *** Chris_Booth [~chris@89.192.10.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:41:56 *** hgnmu128 [~hgnmu128@117.201.248.174] has quit [Quit: tired] 14:44:04 <Terkhen> I'm done with conversions until this evening or tomorrow, time to work :P 14:44:12 <planetmaker> :-) 14:45:18 *** Chris_Booth [~chris@46.68.248.68] has joined #openttd 14:47:16 <planetmaker> George, how many of the ECS pages have tables, though? 14:47:42 <George> most 14:48:19 <planetmaker> well... most I randomly looked at had no tables ;-) 14:48:23 <planetmaker> That's why I'm asking 14:49:34 *** Amis [~Amis@5400C2DC.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 14:50:12 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/ECSHBanks 14:50:15 *** Chris_Booth [~chris@46.68.248.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:50:28 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/ECSHCarShops 14:50:30 *** Chris_Booth [~chris@46.68.248.68] has joined #openttd 14:50:36 <George> 103 of 214 pages have tables 14:50:51 <planetmaker> :-) 14:51:18 <Terkhen> George: do you have the pages in text format? 14:51:33 <George> Export from old wiki 14:52:03 <George> text + wiki header 14:52:10 <planetmaker> ok, I'll see that I'll get this replace script done asap 14:53:47 <Ammler> maybe you can call a competition on tt-forums for a logo :-) 14:54:10 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 14:54:49 <George> Ammler: :)))) 14:55:00 <Ammler> (or remove the dummy) 14:55:11 <planetmaker> The competition idea is not that bad, I think 14:55:57 <George> I'd prefer to see it done by a script :) 14:56:03 <planetmaker> the logo? 14:56:39 <George> the pages 14:56:57 <planetmaker> yes. Ammer suggested competition for the logo, though. Not for the wiki edits ;-) 14:57:21 <George> :)))) 14:57:23 <Yexo> just create a competition who can cleanup the most wiki pages :) 14:57:26 <Ammler> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=NewGraphicsSpecs <-- wanted to add a text that grf spec is moving to tt-wiki but editing is disabled :-P 14:57:52 <orudge> Ammler: eventually, the pages will be redirected 14:58:32 <Terkhen> George: if you have all of them in text files, I could run the script on all of them at once 14:58:43 <Terkhen> mind that they still need some formatting after the conversion 14:58:55 <Ammler> will the whole ttdpatch.net domain go down? 14:59:00 <orudge> Ammler: no. 14:59:08 <orudge> I don't host ttdpatch.net, or have anything to do with it. 14:59:12 <orudge> it's just the wiki (and svn) that I host 14:59:17 <planetmaker> Ammler, no. But... there's only one angry person "maintaining" it 14:59:36 <Ammler> I should not but :-D 15:00:46 <Ammler> svn could be converted to hg or git and moved to bitbucket or github 15:01:02 <orudge> could be, but I see no need for that 15:01:06 <orudge> I'm quite happy to host everything 15:01:30 <orudge> I might move it to a different server with a more modern version of svn and trac, though 15:01:43 <George> Terkhen: I have old wiki export. I can send it to you if you wish 15:02:12 <Ammler> orudge: it would make forking easier... 15:02:23 <planetmaker> how so? 15:02:25 <orudge> Ammler: it would, but who's going to want to fork TTDPatch in this day and age? ;) 15:02:46 <orudge> anyway, we'll see, I guess 15:02:59 <Terkhen> George: I think that the script is made to work with the code at tt-wiki, it won't work with the old code 15:03:02 <planetmaker> I bet everyone who really wants to work on it and comes with patches w/could get svn 15:03:39 <George> Terkhen: then I do not have them in the text form. There is only the wiki itself 15:04:21 <Terkhen> hmm... ok, let's wait for the bot then :P 15:04:47 <planetmaker> hm... ok. I'll have another go during (extended) dinner ;-) 15:05:38 <Terkhen> :) 15:05:55 <Ammler> planetmaker: you can kinda "close" it 15:06:04 <planetmaker> hm? 15:06:12 <Ammler> running svn for a "dead" project isn't really worth 15:06:33 <Ammler> and it could happen, that svn just will switch off 15:06:41 <Ammler> and forgotten 15:07:15 <planetmaker> there are still the src bundles 15:08:46 <JVassie_> Terkhen, in the ToDo, there seems to be a missing table row for Var2AirportTiles, the text for it is floating underneath the main table 15:08:54 <Terkhen> woops :( 15:09:29 <Terkhen> cleaned :P 15:10:15 <JVassie_> ta 15:14:56 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-074-202-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:15:03 *** Chris_Booth is now known as Guest4565 15:15:03 *** Chris_Booth [~chris@46.68.100.80] has joined #openttd 15:21:15 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:21:32 *** Guest4565 [~chris@46.68.248.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:23:56 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 15:23:59 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 15:26:37 <Belugas> who turned off the lights? 15:32:29 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 15:44:57 *** Chris_Booth is now known as Guest4569 15:44:58 *** Guest4569 [~chris@46.68.100.80] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:59 *** Chris_Booth [~chris@46.68.100.80] has joined #openttd 15:45:41 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 15:53:03 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56:40 <planetmaker> hm, I'm getting a feel for python regex 15:57:40 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:57:58 <Terkhen> good or bad? :P 15:58:10 <planetmaker> different. But not bad 15:58:31 <planetmaker> mainly the (?... ) syntax confused the hell out of me 16:01:12 <Terkhen> huh... why a different syntax? most programs use the common one 16:01:26 <Terkhen> maybe it is not as complicated to use :P 16:02:10 *** Chris_Booth is now known as Guest4570 16:02:10 *** Guest4570 [~chris@46.68.100.80] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:11 *** Chris_Booth [~chris@46.68.100.80] has joined #openttd 16:02:40 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:03:19 <planetmaker> it's a sort of extension / short-cut 16:03:46 <planetmaker> what exactly depends on the character(s) to follow after the ? ;-) 16:04:24 *** Chris_Booth is now known as Guest4571 16:04:25 *** Chris_Booth [~chris@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:05:24 *** Chris_Booth [~chris@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 16:06:07 *** Guest4558 is now known as Chris_Booth 16:11:34 *** Guest4571 [~chris@46.68.100.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:21:25 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:29:52 <welshdragon> where can I get a listing of all the older versions? 16:30:07 <welshdragon> (in particular 1.0.5) 16:30:23 <welshdragon> I want to download it 16:30:28 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecj132.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 16:31:20 <Terkhen> http://binaries.openttd.org 16:37:51 *** ar3k [~ident@ebl152.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:43:41 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:47:29 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC576D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 16:49:19 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:58:27 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.176.109] has joined #openttd 17:04:28 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Juo] 17:15:41 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc426.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:17:02 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/280/ <-- I try to find lines which start with ABC, replace some stuff within them and then put them back into the original text 17:17:54 <planetmaker> obviously that doesn't work this way... what's the proper way to do that in python? 17:18:13 <planetmaker> actual goal: replace <something> in all lines which start with <something else> 17:24:53 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:36:48 <Rubidium> Terkhen: just teach them http://www.openttd.org/download-stable/<version> ;) 17:37:21 <Terkhen> oh, ok :) 17:44:41 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: translators * r22588 /trunk/src/lang/ (danish.txt korean.txt): 17:44:41 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:44:41 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: danish - 11 changes by majbom 17:44:41 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: korean - 3 changes by junho2813 17:52:26 *** Pixa [~Pixa@85.210.67.111] has joined #openttd 17:58:56 *** DjoN [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 18:00:48 *** keky___ [~stefan@p5098b65a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:00:48 *** KouDy [~KouDy@pub212004071029.fx-hfc.datazug.ch] has joined #openttd 18:00:48 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:10:00 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.176.109] has quit [Quit: brb] 18:13:20 *** Macha [~macha@109.78.117.189] has joined #openttd 18:13:55 *** Mks [~mks@c83-176-234-98.cust.tele2.se] has joined #openttd 18:14:46 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host202-229-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:15:29 <Wolf01> hello 18:16:07 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 18:16:15 <welshdragon> I've just done something I've not done in a while 18:16:31 <Terkhen> planetmaker: http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/patches/wikised.txt <--- this is the wikised I'm using now :) 18:16:47 <welshdragon> CIA-10 will announce it soon :O 18:19:15 <Terkhen> huh... I don't understand this one at all: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VarAction2NewSignals 18:23:18 *** Macha is now known as Macha|XChat 18:24:08 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host192-159-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:24:08 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest4591 18:24:08 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 18:26:37 <frosch123> Terkhen: yes, new signals is a lost case 18:26:52 <Terkhen> I have just applied formatting and added an entry to the todo list 18:27:00 <Terkhen> I don't understand why that page talks about callbacks :S 18:27:04 <frosch123> it's a try to put everything in a single action5 instead of adding action1s 18:27:32 *** Macha [~macha@webicity.info] has joined #openttd 18:27:49 *** Macha [~macha@webicity.info] has left #openttd [] 18:28:04 <frosch123> Terkhen: new signals have no normal action2 to reference action1s, there are only callback results, which return indices into an action5 18:28:29 <frosch123> well, and there is also only one callback 18:28:35 *** Macha|XChat [~macha@109.78.117.189] has left #openttd [Leaving] 18:28:50 <frosch123> so the usual pages for action2, varaction2 and callbacks are merged into one page for signals :) 18:28:54 *** Guest4591 [~wolf01@host202-229-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:29:00 <frosch123> because all is one 18:29:01 <Terkhen> quite confusing 18:29:16 <frosch123> not supported by ottd anyway :p 18:29:24 <frosch123> and not going to be ever supported either 18:29:28 <Terkhen> well, it's formatted now; it's up to someone else to clarify it if he wants to 18:29:33 <Terkhen> yes, I can understand why :P 18:32:05 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.176.109] has joined #openttd 18:36:24 <Terkhen> when are temporary registers cleared? after finishing a varaction2? 18:38:19 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 18:40:35 <Terkhen> hmm... source says "never" 18:42:57 <Terkhen> ah, found it in the specs; "values undefined" 18:49:05 <frosch123> yes, if you run expert's hard industries next to a grf which changes registers, it causes an infite loop :p 18:49:16 <frosch123> (which ottd detects since then :s) 18:49:26 <Terkhen> :O 18:49:47 <Terkhen> that newgrf seems to be a nice source of bugs 18:49:51 <frosch123> it does not initialise the 'call again' register of the industry production callback 18:51:08 <Terkhen> I'll emphasize even more that the temporary register is not to be trusted between different varaction2 :P 18:52:00 <Terkhen> I'm doing a new page describing storages, I couldn't think of a good place to describe how town persistent storage works (right now everything is scattered between different pages anyways) 18:56:49 *** Chruker [~no@5634a56d.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #openttd 19:00:21 <frosch123> Terkhen: planetmaker. just skimmed the logs. it is very much intentional that the specs do not mention all 80+ variables 19:00:34 <Terkhen> hmm... why? 19:00:39 <frosch123> some variables were changed by ttdp and do not match the originals 19:00:50 <frosch123> and quite a lot are also very troublesome wrt. ottd features 19:01:08 <frosch123> so, the general consensus was to only document what is actually needed 19:01:30 <frosch123> ttdp reserved to itself to change any non documented variables to something else 19:01:47 <frosch123> while that does not matter for ottd, quite of them are a nuisance nevertheless 19:02:21 <Terkhen> hmm... 19:02:30 <Terkhen> it is a complicated issue, yes 19:02:52 <Terkhen> what should we do regarding openttd variables that are not documented in the specs? 19:03:04 <frosch123> are there any? 19:03:07 <frosch123> :o 19:04:00 <Terkhen> compare this with src/newgrf_town.cpp: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VarAction2Cities 19:04:45 <Terkhen> I know that those are in the 80+ range that you mentioned, but there should be a way to know about them besides the source 19:05:59 <frosch123> well, as i said, 80+ variables are not documented intentional 19:06:06 <frosch123> towns are no exception to that 19:06:20 <Terkhen> hmm... not an ideal solution at all :/ 19:06:42 <frosch123> e.g. what's the point of accessing the ratings of the first 8 companies? 19:06:54 <Terkhen> none, most of them make no sense 19:07:00 <frosch123> a grf does not know about companies, and there are also more than 8 19:07:04 <Terkhen> but it's the only way to access stuff like "number of houses" 19:07:19 <frosch123> thus "number of houses" is documented :) 19:07:49 <frosch123> if you put it like "everything which makes sense, should be documented", then that should be mostly the case 19:08:16 <Terkhen> oh, right 19:08:18 <Terkhen> it is in the table :P 19:08:38 <Terkhen> I was looking at the description only 19:08:48 <Terkhen> well, I guess we should make a note of this 19:09:16 <Terkhen> s/this/the decision regarding 80+ variables/ 19:13:27 <frosch123> there could be some page about the meaning of the 00-3f, 40-5f, 60-7f, 80-ff variable ranges 19:14:36 <Terkhen> yes, the 80+ issue could be mentioned in that page :) 19:14:41 <Terkhen> I'll add another todo entry 19:18:33 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: frosch * r22589 /trunk/src/ (order_cmd.cpp order_func.h train_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#4641]: PBS order forecasting modified the current order index in case of a goto-nearest-depot order and no depot could be found. 19:19:38 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:30:26 *** APTX_ [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 19:33:48 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:36:50 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-115-164.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:38:58 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC576D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:06:15 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 20:37:21 <planetmaker> frosch123: why no 80+x? So that they're not used by authors as they're expensive? 20:39:04 <frosch123> most of them are useless 20:39:12 <frosch123> some of them were changed by ttdp (and also ottd) 20:39:14 <planetmaker> right. Just reading backlog :-) 20:39:24 <frosch123> a lot do not work in ottd because of ottd features 20:39:34 *** Amis [~Amis@5400C2DC.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:39:44 <frosch123> they cause trouble all the time, it is hard to support them 20:39:57 <Rubidium> planetmaker: e.g. some allow you to read pointers 20:40:01 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> if you put it like "everything which makes sense, should be documented", then that should be mostly the case <-- so if i have a valid case for accessing a certain variable, i need to document it, to make it fixed? 20:41:02 <planetmaker> frosch123: I still think it's worth documenting that actually. Even useless, obsolete or whatever 20:41:22 <planetmaker> but it should come with a strong note. Or on some extra page of obsolete variables 20:41:56 <planetmaker> hm, where's alberth when one needs him... 20:42:11 <Terkhen> strong notes are not known for deterring people from doing what they want to do :P 20:42:17 <frosch123> planetmaker: there is a item on the todo list 20:42:30 <Rubidium> industry variable 0x83: byte 2 of town pointer ;) 20:42:40 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:42:46 <planetmaker> I need the python equivalent of sed "/ABC/s/nix als VerdruÃ/pure Freude/g" 20:42:52 <Terkhen> also, if they can change between openttd and ttdpatch, I'm not sure they should be in the specs 20:42:54 <frosch123> anyway, callbacks page done \o/ 20:43:31 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: line.startswith("ABC")? 20:43:39 <planetmaker> yes 20:43:42 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: basically yes, but we will ban you if you add something stupid 20:43:42 <Terkhen> frosch123: nice :) 20:43:58 <Terkhen> broken table on cb29 20:45:11 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i meant that literally ;) 20:45:14 <Rubidium> oh... yes... 20:45:54 <Rubidium> we need company variable 0x2B6 + 0x80 ;) 20:45:58 <planetmaker> hm... let's see 20:46:13 <Rubidium> i.e. the current action the AI is executing 20:46:27 <Ammler> is it somehow obvious, what is spec, what is recommends only? 20:46:28 <frosch123> NewCompanies? 20:46:40 <Ammler> like cargo table 20:46:56 <frosch123> Ammler: the table of contents has a special sections for recommends 20:47:07 <Rubidium> frosch123: yeah, NewGRF controlled companies 20:47:13 <frosch123> but the stuff is likely not properly split yet 20:48:09 <Terkhen> :D 20:48:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: callback 18 ;) 20:48:23 <Terkhen> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Storages <--- how does this look? 20:48:43 <Terkhen> (it will need a cleanup of some pages that is not done yet) 20:50:06 <Terkhen> hmm... I think we need a style regarding hex numbers 20:50:23 <Terkhen> I used two in that page :P 20:50:53 <Eddi|zuHause> "what is a hex number is recognizable from context. or something" 20:51:14 <frosch123> Terkhen: "Size:FF" and "Size: 0F" 20:51:16 <Rubidium> Terkhen: I think the sizes are off-by-one 20:51:25 <frosch123> there are 256 registers in range 00 to FF 20:52:00 <frosch123> "Size" sounds if there are 255 registers 20:52:06 <Terkhen> true, access only to FF != size FF :) 20:52:52 <Eddi|zuHause> why are callback numbers 40 to 13F "reserved"? 20:53:05 <frosch123> How about putting the escape sequences in the operator links? 20:53:24 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: because stupid grf authors used to only test the first byte of callbacks 20:53:42 <frosch123> so everything would break when 00-FF were used, as everyone would consider 100 as 00 20:54:08 <frosch123> thus, the byte-sized indices were skipped to kind of force them to use proper word tests 20:54:14 <Terkhen> :O 20:54:36 <frosch123> actually, afaik callback id was only a byte in the early days 20:55:10 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so also 200..23F will be skipped? 20:55:15 <frosch123> yes 20:55:31 <Terkhen> frosch123: Data storage: Operator 0E (sto) allows to store values inside the registers of this storage. <--- something like this? 20:55:50 <frosch123> include the \ 20:56:02 <frosch123> so it is clear what it means 20:56:12 <frosch123> maybe also reverse Operator \sto (0E) 20:56:35 <Terkhen> ok :) 20:57:16 <frosch123> Features that support it: Industries (0A) <- and airports 20:57:17 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't it sto? 20:57:31 <frosch123> :o indeed 20:57:57 <Terkhen> I was wondering why all the escapes have that 2 20:58:17 <frosch123> well, those of action 7 have a 7 :) 20:58:19 <Yexo> to make sure they don't clash with the actionD and action7 escapes 20:58:28 <Eddi|zuHause> there are also escapes, like GG 20:58:32 <frosch123> and there are < and < 20:58:35 <Terkhen> oh, ok :) 21:00:03 <Eddi|zuHause> basically someone was too lazy to drag the context with them when evaluating escapes :p 21:00:37 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: they are freely defineable nowdays 21:00:37 <Yexo> not too lazy, grfcodec supports them and knows _nothing_ about context 21:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: yes, but it would have been possible (not necessarily easy or even sensible) to have grfcodec evaluate the context (whether it is currently in an action 2,6(?),7,9 or D 21:03:06 <Eddi|zuHause> ) 21:04:02 <Yexo> sure that is possible, however that introduces knowledge about the contents of nfo in grfcodec, as opposed to only knowledge about the format 21:04:07 <Terkhen> does it know what is an action? 21:04:22 <frosch123> it knows action FF 21:04:31 <frosch123> i.e. binary include sprites 21:04:46 <frosch123> but maybe that is no real action :) 21:04:50 <Terkhen> :P 21:04:53 <Yexo> and binary include files, is that action FE? 21:05:26 <frosch123> hmm? no FF 21:05:52 <Yexo> no, sprites are differently encoded from sound files 21:06:12 <frosch123> they are an FF action byte, then the filename, and the the data 21:06:35 <Yexo> oh, right :) 21:07:28 <Eddi|zuHause> so... i can manually put in action FF and after that a hexdumped real sprite? 21:08:02 <Yexo> IIRC you can do that file sound files, not so sure about real sprites 21:09:35 <frosch123> grfcodec does not care about the file content 21:09:37 <Yexo> no, real sprites don't start with FF, they start with the type 21:09:43 <frosch123> you can include anything :) 21:09:50 <frosch123> which does not exceed 64kB of course 21:10:43 <frosch123> oh, that way, sure it won't be considered a real sprite 21:11:54 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: my lines seem to be of length one character each. Unfortunately 21:12:14 <planetmaker> why ever ... 21:12:17 <Eddi|zuHause> crazy idea #496: we need conditional action 4's so we can change spelling rules of german in 1901 and 1996 :p 21:12:43 <Yexo> you can have that, as long as you save/load your game in 1996 :) 21:13:34 <__ln__> if i asked why aren't there any trams with ottd by default, would i regret it? 21:13:41 <Eddi|zuHause> we actually discussed changing vehicle names based on date, but i don't remember why we didn't do it 21:13:58 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-074-202-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:14:12 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: to confusing for users? 21:15:04 <planetmaker> ah... one step further now :-) 21:18:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: the case would be DBSet engines which occasionally have two or three different names, one in the LÀnderbahn-era (before 1922), e.g prussian "P8", one in the DRG/early DB era, e.g. "BR 38", "BR E10", and one in the later DB era (UIC-conform), e.g. "BR 110" 21:18:18 <Terkhen> ok, town persistent storage is now documented :) 21:18:48 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: my point still stands: I think that would be _very_ confusing 21:20:38 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: thanks with the line.startswith. That got me on the right track 21:24:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: that's something a newgrf author can solve though. 21:24:55 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. the BR 38 could be called "pr. P8" before 1922, and "BR 38 (ex. pr P8)" after 1922 21:25:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and the "BR E10" could be called "BR 110 (ex. E10)" after 1970 21:26:11 <Eddi|zuHause> or the east german "BR 132" could be called "BR 232 (ex DR 132)" after 1990 21:26:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the DBSet is actually full of these :p 21:27:04 <Eddi|zuHause> makes for looooooong discussions with MB over which is the right name :p 21:27:59 <frosch123> night 21:28:03 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc426.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:29 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:33:33 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 21:33:41 <andythenorth> evenings 21:34:16 <Terkhen> hi andythenorth 21:34:32 <andythenorth> "is it done yet?" :P 21:34:48 <Terkhen> yes, for certain definition of "it" 21:35:28 <Terkhen> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Storages#Persistent_storage_accessed_by_GRFID <-- this is done for example 21:36:37 <Wolf01> 'night 21:36:41 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host192-159-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:39:59 <planetmaker> ha... tables slowly seem to be fixed... getting somewhere :-) 21:40:07 <Terkhen> :) 21:41:31 <andythenorth> there's no regex that could do it en-masse? 21:42:23 <planetmaker> well... there is not a single one. But a chain of regex to treat stuff 21:45:06 <Terkhen> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Special:AncientPages <--- only a handful of pages remain untouched :) 21:48:23 * Terkhen is going to finish the remaining action0 21:48:41 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: TTW - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 22:00:19 *** simbabque [~simbabque@g226003072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 22:00:28 <simbabque> hi there 22:00:59 <simbabque> i've got a couple of trains that accidently loaded oil at the station they were supposed to drop oil from another station of... 22:01:19 <simbabque> how can i tell them to loose their cargo permanently so they can start picking up oil at the proper station again? 22:02:00 <planetmaker> :-D and I wonder why my script suddently behaves differently 22:02:11 <planetmaker> Terkhen fixed my "test" page: Action0Industries ;-) 22:02:17 <Terkhen> oh :( 22:02:19 <Terkhen> sorry 22:02:25 <planetmaker> that's no har 22:02:26 <planetmaker> m 22:02:32 <planetmaker> any does 22:02:35 <planetmaker> and should do 22:02:53 <Terkhen> simbabque: I think that the fastest way is to send them to depot, sell them and buy new ones 22:03:01 <Yexo> simbabque: use "unload and no load" orders at that station 22:03:08 <Terkhen> make sure that the order in the second station is "no load" 22:03:15 <simbabque> i've got the no load now 22:03:19 <Yexo> the oil will be dropped and will remain at the station 22:03:40 <Terkhen> planetmaker: ok, which one should I left untouched? action0s are done now :P 22:04:06 <simbabque> ok, thanks 22:04:14 <planetmaker> action7 22:04:18 <simbabque> i'll try having them unload until there's nothing left 22:04:21 <planetmaker> it's lengthy anyway 22:04:33 <Terkhen> ok :) 22:05:07 * andythenorth -> bed 22:05:09 <Terkhen> I think that we can finish them today 22:05:10 <andythenorth> good night 22:05:12 <Terkhen> good night andythenorth 22:05:13 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:05:57 <Terkhen> planetmaker: did you check the wikised I uploaded? it contains a few extra checks 22:06:24 <planetmaker> I looked at it. But I have not yet implemented it in the bot. Let's check action7 results. The first real test :-) 22:06:44 <planetmaker> hm... kinda failed :S 22:07:00 <Terkhen> hmm... failed how? wrong conversion? 22:07:51 <planetmaker> missing line break in tables 22:09:32 <simbabque> changing the directions temporarily worked... thanks a lot :) 22:09:59 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:58 <planetmaker> oh... no. table start missing. 22:11:01 <planetmaker> not line breaks 22:11:32 <Terkhen> :/ 22:12:12 *** simbabque [~simbabque@g226003072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #openttd [] 22:15:36 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@82.152.164.38] has joined #openttd 22:22:19 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.176.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:22:22 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0f84fe.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 22:23:04 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 22:23:28 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-182-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 22:29:02 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.68] has joined #openttd 22:30:40 <Terkhen> good night 22:32:58 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-113-185.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 22:35:46 <planetmaker> good night Terkhen 22:36:18 *** Chruker [~no@5634a56d.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:15 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-68-3.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:40:26 <welshdragon> hmm 22:43:25 <Sacro> click 22:45:04 *** JVassie_ [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:49:40 *** Pixa [~Pixa@85.210.67.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:53:38 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 22:59:43 *** [WOODY] [woodygfx@79.118.35.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:02:29 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@82.152.164.38] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 23:07:54 *** lordmwa [~lordmwa@95.147.169.241] has joined #openttd 23:08:08 <lordmwa> good evening everyone 23:08:41 <lordmwa> anyone got any ideas on this: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=55244 23:10:16 <Sacro> Good Evening lordmwa 23:10:41 <Sacro> sounds like an issue with TCP getting through 23:11:48 <Sacro> Using any firewall? 23:11:57 <lordmwa> sorted 23:12:02 <Sacro> I know :) 23:12:08 * Sacro chortles 23:12:20 <lordmwa> it was router port forwarding error 23:12:28 <lordmwa> it was inbound fine but not outbound 23:12:48 <Sacro> Hmm, strange, NAT should handle that 23:13:39 <lordmwa> i had set it to block UDP port 3797 23:14:30 <Sacro> Outbound? 23:14:34 <lordmwa> yes 23:14:45 <lordmwa> when i didnt need an outbound rule because it auto allows 23:14:51 <Sacro> Hmm, strange 23:15:58 <Sacro> Oh well, back to OpenTTD! 23:16:39 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B1076D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:30:08 *** KouDy [~KouDy@pub212004071029.fx-hfc.datazug.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:08 *** KouDy [~KouDy@pub212004071029.fx-hfc.datazug.ch] has joined #openttd 23:32:39 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:31 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC576D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 23:44:44 *** xi234 [~xi23@ip-85-161-245-158.eurotel.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:52:26 *** xi23 [~xi23@ip-85-161-245-158.eurotel.cz] has joined #openttd 23:52:29 *** KouDy [~KouDy@pub212004071029.fx-hfc.datazug.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:26 *** KouDy [~KouDy@pub212004071029.fx-hfc.datazug.ch] has joined #openttd 23:53:42 *** DjoN [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed]