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00:06:07 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:10:27 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 01:10:37 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:37:41 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:2d66:740e:bff0:bc66] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:43:49 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:15 *** hibby [~hibby@77.95.37.233] has joined #openttd 02:17:25 <hibby> hola :) 02:18:42 <hibby> dangit, fallen out with irssi. Back shortly 02:18:45 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:18:45 *** hibby [~hibby@77.95.37.233] has quit [] 02:19:01 *** hibby [~hibby@77.95.37.233] has joined #openttd 02:22:51 <hibby> got a quick question about running as a dedicated server if anyone's about 03:49:37 *** lllugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8ce2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 03:56:47 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4d0cf9e5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:53:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75576.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:40 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B730CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:25:16 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 06:06:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has joined #openttd 06:13:44 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 06:18:17 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:20:10 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 06:37:19 <planetmaker> moin 06:41:01 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:48:52 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 07:01:09 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 07:07:16 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:24:00 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-018-086.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:32:01 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-018-086.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:34:37 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:35:17 <Terkhen> good morning 07:55:41 <peter1138> hi 08:09:14 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:32:05 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:34:55 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:34:58 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:43:23 *** Firzen [~Neon@dslb-094-219-018-086.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:56:51 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f522d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:02:20 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 09:13:46 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 09:30:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:32:40 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:53:33 <Eddi|zuHause> interesting, the game crashes with a segmentation fault if i set an engine to both dualheaded and articulated 09:55:57 <Terkhen> does it do the same thing in 1.0.x? 09:56:29 <planetmaker> nice templating in cets, Eddi|zuHause :-) 09:58:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: no, but it doesn't seem to be articulated after it's built (only in the build menu there appear two) 09:59:36 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yeah, but i'm not sure if it's flexible enough in the long term 10:00:54 <Terkhen> hmm... then the crash is probably caused by my unification code, but the original code was broken to begin with 10:01:27 <Terkhen> I don't have time to look at it now anyways :) 10:02:51 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, if it's not possible to do vehicles that are both dualheaded and have articulated vehicles in each head, there is quite a problem with modeling things like the ICE1... 10:04:07 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D602.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:05:07 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: we can always refactor when it's needed. 10:05:16 <planetmaker> or add another template for other usages 10:05:43 <planetmaker> after all there's no template to cover all vehicles which is not as complex as a writing everything everytime ;-) 10:06:05 <Eddi|zuHause> obviously ;) 10:08:00 <Rubidium> the spec says you can't build dualheaded articulated vehicles 10:09:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes, but a) it shouldn't crash if you try, and b) one can change the specs ;) 10:09:35 <Rubidium> then file a bug report about the crash 10:09:51 <Rubidium> after all, there are various other cases where invalid NewGRFs cause crashes 10:10:50 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, in 1.0 the vehicle seems to be dualheaded, but not articulated 10:35:13 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 11:13:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.191.104] has joined #openttd 11:19:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.162.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:25:12 *** Lo [~johannes@HSI-KBW-078-042-068-017.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #openttd 11:25:19 <Lo> hi 11:25:46 <Alberth> hi 11:25:52 <Lo> I am a programmer and wanted to ask whether I could contribute to the project 11:26:19 <Lo> who could I ask best? 11:26:31 <Alberth> here would be fine :) 11:26:43 <Lo> okay, who exactly? :) 11:27:03 <Alberth> there are several you can ask here :) 11:27:15 <Alberth> anything in particular you like 11:27:17 <Alberth> ? 11:27:43 <Lo> Yeah, I heard that there was a patch to allow trains on *foreign* tracks in multiplayer 11:27:57 <Lo> But I was said it was to buggy to get into the main branch 11:28:03 <Alberth> the IS patch (infra structure sharing) patch 11:28:07 <Lo> So I wanted to ask whether I could help 11:28:23 <Alberth> many patches 'live' at the OpenTTD development forum 11:28:34 <Lo> oh, okay 11:28:47 <SpComb> live and die 11:28:50 <Alberth> also there is a bugtracker with open issues (bugs.openttd.org) 11:29:20 <Alberth> and there is lots of software around the NewGRF files 11:29:50 <Lo> oh, I see the post. Is the reason they didn't really *release* it that it is still too buggy? 11:29:57 <Alberth> Lo: imho not so much buggy as it is conceptually wrong 11:30:25 <Alberth> most patches there are not made by devs but by users like you 11:30:43 <Alberth> s/devs/openttd devs/ 11:31:13 <Lo> :( But if this is true, than there will never be IS enabled in the "main openttd"? 11:31:51 <Alberth> patches that are good enough in all ways, are adopted normally 11:32:03 <Alberth> I very much doubt IS will get there ever, though 11:32:41 <Alberth> the fundamental problem imho is that I can block your game by just driving an engine on your track, and push 'stop' 11:32:44 <Lo> Is it possible to bring IS ever to openttd (not necessarily the IS of this forum post) 11:32:47 <Lo> ? 11:33:24 <Lo> I would really be interested to discuss this detailed, maybe, there can still be found a solution 11:33:44 <Alberth> a patched openttd version sure, and that can be done today (and probably already exists) 11:33:56 <Alberth> official openttd: first fix the above problem at least 11:34:41 <Alberth> eg the Chillcore patchpack is a version of openttd with many patches from the development forum 11:37:03 <Alberth> Lo: I don't see a good way to fix blocker problems like the above, inherently to the IS patch is that you must trust the other players, which proves not to be true at all times 11:37:11 <Lo> Ah, I see, I guess I'll need to check the forum post more detailed to understand the issues 11:38:02 <Lo> Oh, you mean like if a train gets caught in the foreign net (can not escape anymore) than this is bad for your train? 11:38:05 <Alberth> yeah, you probably want to read the whole thread, and afaik there was another version before this one, you may want to look into that too 11:38:10 <Lo> So the other players might play unfair...? 11:38:31 <Alberth> players that want to win will do anything 11:39:26 <Alberth> and that includes blocking your tracks, and diverting their own while you use it, and no doubt many other messy things you can do 11:39:58 <Lo> Okay, but just for local games... what about if every player could tell #openttd who he/she trusts? We play it mainly in lan games where everyone knows each other... 11:41:12 <planetmaker> Well, there it's easy, of course 11:41:24 <Alberth> perhaps that is a way, I don't know 11:41:29 <planetmaker> The problem is to find a good solution for cases where things are not easy 11:42:06 <planetmaker> But then... a default along the lines of "don't allow sharing" with options to pull off your own vehicles from other people tracks... 11:42:26 <planetmaker> but that's already a crucial question on how to solve that in a way that it won't give unfair advantages or penatlties 11:42:58 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:43:02 <Lo> @planetmaker, sorry, I did not get exactly what you meant by "But then..." 11:44:47 <Lo> Did you mean that it should give a possibility to get your trains back home (on your track net) when it is "caught"? 11:45:06 <Lo> (So that "friendships" would not be necessary anymore) 11:46:03 <Alberth> you definitely need that, or an evil player can continue to block you 11:47:31 <Lo> Yeah, I see this 11:48:24 <Lo> But I ask myself whether "friend groups" would be a possibility that was not considered. But I am not through all the forum posts... 11:49:22 <SpComb> if playing IS with people you trust is fun, then why rule it out entirely just because some nutcases can grief with it? 11:50:43 <Alberth> I don't even understand why you don't play coop instead 11:50:55 <SpComb> yeah, I do 11:52:10 <Alberth> one of the problems is that as soon as you add it, server admins will enable the setting, and we'll get swamped with requests to 'fix' it. 11:52:24 <Lo> Alberth, in coop, you have the same company, right? 11:52:25 <SpComb> that's a valid issue 11:52:32 <Alberth> Lo: yes 11:53:06 <SpComb> coop requires a lot more control, because you need a unified building/playing style 11:53:18 <SpComb> IS provides more separation for a somewhat more informal game 11:53:59 <SpComb> what's nice about it is that the very basic track-sharing mechanic was, I recall, very simple in terms of code 11:54:32 <Alberth> how is it different? if you are to share tracks, you need unified style too 11:55:03 <Lo> Style? what can be meant whith that? Electric vs Steam, maybe? :) 11:55:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: no, you can more cleanly define separation points, in terms of "from here you can do what you want" 11:55:18 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:e961:7a5:23e1:d2c9] has joined #openttd 11:55:21 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 11:55:34 <Alberth> Lo: another fun one, I dump your tracks full of my trains so you cannot use the capacity that you need/want 11:55:42 <SpComb> it's easier to define espareate roles for people, and then just cooperate in some places 11:55:53 <Alberth> Style as in length of blocks, I think 11:56:25 <Lo> @Alberth: Yeah, okay, but if this is a friend of mine, he/she will never do this 11:56:37 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: but you can do that with the same colour of tracks too, just add a sign or so 11:56:37 <SpComb> but I mean, griefing is an implicit part of multiplayer, and even vanilla trunk still has plenty of problems with grefing, but that's not a reason to disable multiplayer 11:56:43 <Eddi|zuHause> in my solo-multiplayer game i had one company per "country", and connection points where trains can go through 11:56:55 <SpComb> and some of those issues are just ones that arent 11:57:03 <SpComb> and some of those issues are just ones that aren't worth solving using technical solutions 11:57:14 <SpComb> instead, you can just have that admin around to kick the guy 11:57:38 <Alberth> s/can just/must/ :) 11:57:59 <Eddi|zuHause> that's already true for "normal" servers as well 11:58:08 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-28-54-244.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 11:58:36 <SpComb> Lo: re style, e.g: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Ruleset 11:59:43 <SpComb> and I do recall building left-to-right track direction switchers in my IS games :) 12:00:08 *** welshdragon [~dragon@anubis.millsie.net] has left #openttd [Leaving] 12:00:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that is perfectly realistic ;) 12:01:11 <Lo> Okay, if you IS differs, well, still, what's the issue? If my train is maybe to long for some stations, the person which will have blocked stations all the time might ask me to use other trains, and then we'll find an agreement... 12:01:33 <Lo> I still do not see what theoretically makes it difficult to play IS with friends 12:02:01 <Eddi|zuHause> that is absolutely not the issue 12:21:29 *** welshdragon [~dragon@anubis.millsie.net] has joined #openttd 12:34:19 <planetmaker> Lo: the issue is if you have such trains stopped in your stations and the other not responding. What options should be available? 12:34:46 <planetmaker> or another person having your trains forced in an ever-lasting circle on his tracks: what to do about that? 12:34:55 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: The Third Tiberium War - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 12:36:42 <Terkhen> it does not even have to be something malicious, someone could place wrong signals near your mainline, blocking it completely 12:36:53 <Alberth> even your friend may have left the computer to get some coffee 12:36:58 <SpComb> go over to his room and slap him? :) 12:37:15 <Terkhen> we have to worry about the cases in which that is not possible 12:37:43 <Terkhen> if someone makes a patch that works only under some circumstances or for certain people, they can always use a patched version 12:38:44 <SpComb> and I posit that the feature would be very useful in some situations in its current form, and trying to solve the rest of the social issues with code wouldn't be worth it 12:39:03 <SpComb> but myes, server admins complaining about "bugs" would be annoying 12:39:23 <SpComb> you'd need a big disclaimer, but nobody cares about those :) 12:41:51 <Terkhen> as I mentioned, in those cases they can use a patched version... but I'm against adding stuff that will need to be fixed later 12:42:55 <Terkhen> and yes, the bigger the disclaimer, the more it is ignored :) 12:45:02 <Lo> @planetmaker I see all these issues, but... Would it be difficult for you to just allow this as a (free to enable) feature in LAN-games only? 12:45:19 <Lo> In LAN, you can always complain to your friends about such issues 12:45:44 <Lo> And it might help the IS code to get better if it would be played more frequently, as in LAN games 12:45:48 <SpComb> that would be a kind of pointless restriction 12:46:32 <Lo> Okay, but why? 12:47:11 <Alberth> LAN can be big too 12:47:48 <Lo> Agreed. But usually, it is small, I think. Plus that admins can dis or en-able IS as an option. 12:47:59 <Lo> I think that would be accepted 12:48:28 <Alberth> they don't do that, just like they currently don't do game management 12:48:37 <Lo> I mean, actually, LAN is locally restricted. Usually, only in the same building, or maybe in the same university, or suff like that 12:49:38 <Alberth> but even your friend can mess up accidentally, and you need a way to fix it without going over to his house/room/whatever, imho 12:50:26 <Lo> send him a message via the internet? :) 12:50:35 <Lo> or her 12:50:41 <Alberth> ie I play with my brother every now and then and he messes up signals. No problem, I can fix that 12:52:59 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:54:50 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:57:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22645 /trunk/src/newgrf_canal.cpp: -Fix [FS#4678]: GetSection() does not return a LockPart. 12:58:41 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 12:59:12 <Hyronymus> afternoon 12:59:25 * Hyronymus has a licensing question 13:00:30 <Hyronymus> if you are trying to re-release a set under a license, how much effort do you need to take to get permission from co-authors 13:01:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22646 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Simplify MP_WATER map accessors, esp. for locks and depots. (based on patched by adf88 and michi_cc) 13:01:40 <Hyronymus> and, more specific, can you set a date before a reaction must be in 13:04:03 *** welshdragon [~dragon@anubis.millsie.net] has left #openttd [Leaving] 13:04:45 <Alberth> the only answer I can think of is 'enough to convince a court' 13:04:59 *** MNIM [~LiesLies@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:05:18 <Hyronymus> hmm 13:05:25 <Rubidium> which would generally be 70? years after the co-authors died? 13:05:34 <Alberth> setting a date may be possible, but you'd have make sure the person receives the message, at least 13:05:41 * Hyronymus thinks he'll be dead too then 13:06:34 <Alberth> but no message would not mean he gives permission, I think 13:07:33 <Hyronymus> I was thinking the same 13:07:49 <Hyronymus> but then again, you were clearly specifying a time frame 13:08:40 <Terkhen> I think that the safest path is getting permission from everyone, and if not possible removing the contributions from authors that cannot be located or don't give permission 13:09:22 <Rubidium> Hyronymus: but you have no guarantee that they received, read and understood the request 13:10:53 <Hyronymus> true, Rubidium 13:11:06 <Hyronymus> but if you do, then it'll be "failsafe" 13:11:34 <Hyronymus> you see, for the Dutch Trainset I can trace down the grpahics artists 13:11:52 <Rubidium> possibly, but... I'm definitely not a lawyer so I can't say it is failsafe 13:11:56 <Hyronymus> every spritesheet included the artists name too 13:12:00 <Hyronymus> but for the code part 13:12:27 <Hyronymus> also, we used GRFmaker: do you have to ask permission from people who provided tools to create something? 13:13:08 <Rubidium> don't know; depends on the case 13:13:32 <Rubidium> e.g. gcc has a clause for some of the optimised code it compiles into binaries 13:13:58 <Rubidium> likewise Microsoft has a clause for statically linking libc 13:14:28 <Rubidium> on the other hand, I doubt a pencil or paper factory has any rights to claim partial copyright on drawings 13:15:57 <Rubidium> though I have no idea about the internals of GRFmaker, i.e. whether they actually add something copyrightable into the GRF 13:17:52 <Hyronymus> k 13:18:03 *** Markavian [~Markavian@220-245-91-25.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 13:18:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22647 /trunk/src/water_map.h: -Codechange: Enhance MP_WATER map accessors with assertions. (adf88) 13:20:42 <planetmaker> Hyronymus: what's the current license of the set? 13:21:32 <Hyronymus> none, tbh 13:21:39 <planetmaker> urgs. That's bad 13:22:14 <Terkhen> yes, the spain set is in the same situation 13:22:20 <planetmaker> then you have no other option trying to get hold of every contributor and getting a 'use whatever license you want' from them ;-) 13:22:46 <planetmaker> (which is what one often gets, if there's a response at all :S ) 13:23:01 <Hyronymus> at the risk of getting kicked... 13:23:06 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22648 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_industries.cpp newgrf_industrytiles.cpp): -Fix (r22629): Missing 'break'. (thanks michi_cc) 13:23:09 <Hyronymus> IMPORTANT: Please reply to this mail to inform us that you received it properly. 13:23:11 <Hyronymus> Hi <name>, 13:23:12 <Hyronymus> During the development of the Dutch Trainset v1 you have submitted code and/or graphics for usage in the Dutch Trainset. At that time a license under which code and/or art was accepted wasn't specified. Purno and I like to put the Dutch Trainset on the Bananas server for free downloadable OTTD content. If you are unfamilair with what Bananas excatly is, we kindly ask you to read about... 13:23:14 <Hyronymus> ...Bananas here first. 13:23:16 <Hyronymus> All content on Bananas must be licensed under a GPL or CC license. Purno and I kindly ask you to tell us under which of the following licenses we may release the Dutch Trainset v1 containing your code and/or art on Bananas: 13:23:17 <Hyronymus> - CC BY-NC-ND v2.0 license, see here for a detailed description of this license 13:23:18 <Hyronymus> - CC-BY-NC-SA v3.0 license, see here for a detailed description of this license 13:23:20 <Hyronymus> - no license whatsoever 13:23:21 <Hyronymus> Purno and I appreciate it if you can inform us on your decision before August 1st 2011. If you have any questions prior to making a decision please contact us. 13:23:46 <planetmaker> uhm... there's paste services :-) 13:23:54 <Hyronymus> lol 13:23:55 <Hyronymus> where 13:23:57 <Hyronymus> :p 13:24:04 <Hyronymus> oh, pastebin 13:24:05 <Terkhen> paste.openttdcoop.org or pastebin 13:24:07 <planetmaker> in your browser ;-) 13:24:15 <planetmaker> like those, yes 13:24:20 <Hyronymus> makes me wonder where my pastebin plugin went 13:24:40 <planetmaker> Hyronymus: we cannot host the DutchTrainSet, if you use a ND clause 13:24:43 <planetmaker> on the DevZone 13:24:53 <planetmaker> mind that ;-) 13:25:02 <Hyronymus> it never was on the Devzone 13:25:07 <planetmaker> yes, I know 13:25:17 <Hyronymus> and if we make v2 we start from scratch 13:25:20 <planetmaker> but... why do you want to put that to a vote? 13:25:35 <planetmaker> if you get a ND agreement it means you may not touch or modify it anyway. So it's lost 13:25:49 <Hyronymus> lost? 13:25:55 <planetmaker> you cannot modify it 13:26:03 <planetmaker> lost for the community to build upon 13:26:12 <Hyronymus> true, but it is a license 13:26:50 <planetmaker> except "you may distribute the compiled grf" it gives no advantage 13:27:18 <Hyronymus> no, but right now we cannot put the set on bananas 13:27:26 <planetmaker> ok 13:27:42 <planetmaker> Honestly I'd not make it an explicit option, though 13:27:47 <planetmaker> most people simply don't care ;-) 13:27:55 <Hyronymus> lol 13:27:57 <planetmaker> so don't give them the choice. If they care, they'll know 13:28:07 <frosch123> [15:26] <Hyronymus> All content on Bananas must be licensed under a GPL or CC license. <- since when? 13:28:16 <Hyronymus> since 15:25 13:28:45 <michi_cc> I'd try to drop the NC clause as well, that non-commercial thing quite a gray area, e.g. is putting it on a compilation CD which is not free already commercial or not? 13:28:54 <planetmaker> indeed... for bananas you don't need it. If you're author you can distribute it under whatever conditions you want. 13:29:12 <planetmaker> you only have to accept the TOS 13:29:42 <Ammler> [15:27] <Hyronymus> it never was on the Devzone <-- http://dev.openttdcoop.org/p/dutchtrainset :-P 13:29:45 <Hyronymus> but Purno and I arent the olny authors 13:30:07 <planetmaker> yes, but it's sufficient that you ARE a author 13:30:13 <Hyronymus> Ammler: we're doing something illegal then :P 13:30:23 <michi_cc> So strictly speaking NC might even forbid a game magazine to include it on an included CD, which is not very nice if you want the set to get played. 13:30:24 <Ammler> djn put it there 13:30:37 <Hyronymus> hmm, that puts stuff into a different perspective 13:31:03 <planetmaker> and you can chose for distribution under CC-BY-NC-ND. As people obviously were happy to have the community use it 13:31:20 <planetmaker> and use something usable for future releases 13:31:26 <Hyronymus> uhuh 13:31:44 <Ammler> it is ok to put a existing project on devzone and "fix" the license after it, just not start a "illegal" project there, IMO 13:35:53 <JVassie> hi Hyronymus 13:36:28 <Alberth> start the project, and only add graphics that are free 13:36:53 <Hyronymus> hi JVassie 13:36:54 <Alberth> that way you can start while you wait for answers 13:38:55 <Hyronymus> true 13:43:49 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 13:53:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:55:20 <JVassie> a new project Hyronymus? 13:57:28 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1608 13:57:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has joined #openttd 14:01:26 <andythenorth> I broke rule #1 14:03:29 *** Guest1608 [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:03:30 <JVassie> queerdom? 14:04:10 <Terkhen> posting on bros thread? 14:04:16 <andythenorth> that's rule #3 14:04:21 *** Lo [~johannes@HSI-KBW-078-042-068-017.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:06:02 <andythenorth> rule #1 stay out of suggestions forum 14:06:07 <planetmaker> :-) 14:07:00 <planetmaker> sometimes it's fun reading. But task sizes and difficulty are usually underestimated at least two orders of magnitudes there ;-) 14:07:19 <planetmaker> not to speak of "rewrite game" suggestions ;-) 14:08:11 *** Pixa [~Pixa@79-68-103-48.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 14:17:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:18:13 <Terkhen> :) 14:26:41 *** Purno [~Purno@5ED23A69.cm-7-3a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:27:48 <Purno> Hi all :) 14:30:09 <Purno> Is this thing broken or are you all just very silent? 14:30:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 14:30:23 <Purno> Ah thanks :) 14:30:37 <Purno> It's been a while since I"ve been on IRC... lets see how stuff worked again :P 14:30:55 <Purno> Is there any way to poke Hyro? He requested me to be on IRC :P 14:31:30 <frosch123> he filled this channel with content from 15:01 to 15:41 14:32:08 <planetmaker> :-D 14:32:18 <frosch123> http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/last?count=200 <- you can find the logs here 14:32:43 <frosch123> then you can just highlight Hyronym*s by typing his nick :) 14:32:44 <Eddi|zuHause> easiest way is to highlight him spelling out his complete name. like typing hyr[tab]. 14:33:20 <frosch123> but don't summon daemons, if you cannot deal with them 14:33:27 <Purno> Hyronymus 14:34:29 <Purno> I guess he's AFK, thanks for the help though :P 14:34:43 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway. there are some bits in copyright about how coauthors cannot reject publishing, unless they have very good reasons 14:39:56 <Hyronymus> Purno: 14:40:02 <Hyronymus> forgot to put my sound on 14:40:16 <Hyronymus> (so I didn't hear my highlight warning) 14:41:41 <Purno> Silly you 14:41:54 <Purno> So, ehm... you summoned me 14:42:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22649 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix [FS#4670]: Switching from a red to a white highlight (by switching to another tool) without switching the highlight mode (HT_RECT etc.) did not mark the selection dirty. 14:42:47 <Hyronymus> lol 14:42:51 <Hyronymus> summoned me 14:42:55 <Hyronymus> but yeah 14:43:01 <Hyronymus> did you read the PM on the forum 14:43:15 <Purno> yep, you read the reply? 14:43:18 <Hyronymus> no 14:43:20 <Hyronymus> :p 14:43:28 <Purno> slacker :P 14:43:30 <Hyronymus> doesn't matter as it seems 14:43:41 <Purno> nah, I basically said "ok" 14:43:45 <Hyronymus> I think we've been misunderstanding the Bananas requirement 14:44:31 <Hyronymus> it was mentioned earlier that if sufficient that you and me as authors decide to put the set on Bananas 14:44:41 <Hyronymus> albeit under the strict license 14:45:32 <Purno> So basically the first license I suggested should do without asking further permission? 14:45:34 <Hyronymus> and replace if with it is 14:45:36 <Hyronymus> :p 14:45:54 <Hyronymus> yes, that seems to be the case 14:47:16 <Ammler> Hyronymus: in doubt, you can make a custom license 14:47:27 <Purno> So, we've done all this trouble for nothing and the set could've already been uploaded? :P 14:47:27 <frosch123> http://bananas.openttd.org/en/manager/tos/ <- bananas does not care about licenses, it justs asks for certain rights for itself, and somewhat ensures that you have the rights to grant those rights 14:47:30 <Ammler> bananas does basically not care about a valid license 14:47:30 <Hyronymus> custom? 14:47:41 <Ammler> just a valid owner 14:47:50 *** Markavian [~Markavian@220-245-91-25.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:47:53 <Ammler> like the pikka sets 14:47:54 <Hyronymus> The Dutch Trainset team 14:49:30 <planetmaker> Purno: having a good, community-friendly license never is 'for nothing'. 14:49:36 <planetmaker> Without a set will die 14:51:07 <Hyronymus> let's see what Pikka's license is like 14:51:17 <Ammler> none 14:51:26 <Ammler> Hyronymus: that is bad example for license 14:51:33 <Hyronymus> oh, it says Custom :P 14:51:48 <Ammler> it is a example how to upload sets without license 14:51:58 <Hyronymus> right 14:52:09 <Hyronymus> what say you, Purno 14:52:33 <Purno> What would be the benefit of a custom license? 14:52:36 <Hyronymus> go "Custom" or CC BY-NC-ND v2.0 14:53:18 <Purno> I see no benefit for Custom yet, so I'd go for the CC license 14:53:37 <Ammler> there is only one useable license, GPL :-) 14:53:42 <Hyronymus> I think it also covers our back, Purno 14:53:51 <Hyronymus> in case co-authors disagree 14:54:21 <JVassie> someone write a spelling check bot, ro a dictionary bot 14:54:23 <JVassie> *or 14:54:29 <JVassie> :o 14:54:30 <JVassie> Purno? 14:54:32 <JVassie> in my irc? 14:54:34 <JVassie> nevah 14:54:39 <Purno> :o 14:54:46 * JVassie is glad bukkit aint here 14:57:39 <JVassie> sigh 14:57:44 <JVassie> find myself working on sunday again 14:57:47 <Hyronymus> Purno: all we need is to add the licence to the grf's 14:58:25 <Ammler> no need, if you don't use custom license 14:59:31 <Hyronymus> then not, but I believe Purno and I prefer the ND 14:59:50 <Ammler> you should just upload to bnanas and use the most restirctive license 15:00:05 <Purno> that'd be the ND right? 15:00:17 <Ammler> and then do as another job licnese the set for future releases 15:00:21 <JVassie> negligent discharge? 15:00:23 <Ammler> which should be preferable gpl 15:00:24 * Hyronymus waits for Ammler to say "or custom" 15:02:05 <Ammler> Hyronymus: just upload the current set and don't care the future license is compatible 15:03:13 <Hyronymus> Ammler: so just upload, specify a licence upon uploading but not adding a licence to the zip 15:03:35 * Hyronymus is getting confused 15:03:37 <Ammler> yep, and decide rather a proper license for future releases 15:03:50 <Ammler> as making a license compatible with both 15:04:01 <planetmaker> Hyronymus: of course you can chose only a license which your contributors allow you to chose 15:04:15 <planetmaker> but something like cc-by-nc-nd for an existing released set should cover that 15:04:29 <planetmaker> for any future release: choose a different, a well-suitable license 15:04:38 <planetmaker> every release can entirely be different. In principle 15:04:47 <JVassie> gimme a G 15:04:49 <JVassie> gimme a P 15:04:53 <JVassie> gimme an L 15:04:55 <planetmaker> 2 15:04:57 <planetmaker> :-P 15:05:00 <Purno> Oh stop the GPL fanboying :P 15:05:00 * Hyronymus trouts JVassie 15:05:08 * JVassie removes Punro forcibly 15:05:20 <Ammler> you don't need to ask Purno for GPL, he already agreed ;-) 15:05:36 <Hyronymus> it's about being comfortable with something, Ammler 15:05:37 <Purno> And it's not answering the question we have now :P 15:05:38 <JVassie> "All my graphics are licensed under GPL." 15:05:39 <planetmaker> JVassie: yes... that'd be best... but people... are not all that easy-going 15:05:47 <JVassie> whos the fanboi now? 15:05:48 <JVassie> :/ 15:05:51 <Purno> you both are :P 15:06:15 <planetmaker> Purno: on the contrary. This issue is only an issue as people do NOT care 15:06:15 * Hyronymus points Purno to the private channel 15:06:20 <planetmaker> and chose NO license 15:06:26 <planetmaker> like CC-BY or GPL 15:06:46 <planetmaker> when that decision would have been made years ago - we'd not have any of those discussions or uncertainties 15:06:56 <JVassie> oh the benefits of hindsight.. 15:06:59 <JVassie> or foresight 15:07:00 <planetmaker> :-) 15:07:02 <planetmaker> quite 15:07:05 <Ammler> Hyronymus: your issue is that you should split upload current set to bananas and license for future work/releases 15:07:12 <planetmaker> but the licenses were around and people knew already then 15:07:17 <JVassie> back to PHP 15:07:19 <planetmaker> but people still don't care 15:07:20 * JVassie sighs 15:07:30 <planetmaker> like modern station set. 15:07:39 <planetmaker> disgusting attitude :S 15:08:17 <Ammler> well, the main issue is that bananas doesn't care 15:08:45 <Ammler> so you need always again to do the work and convince people to make license 15:12:52 <planetmaker> hm... 15:14:57 <Hyronymus> files have to be tar I assume? 15:15:59 <Ammler> "You will only upload content of which you are (one of) the original author(s)." -> "You will only upload content with valid license." and you are done :-) 15:16:15 <Ammler> Hyronymus: or zip 15:16:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: who defines what an "invalid" license is? 15:16:26 <Ammler> it does repack anyway 15:16:29 <Hyronymus> it doesn't accept zip :s 15:16:38 <Hyronymus> This type is not yet supported. 15:16:57 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: that cuold be listed 15:19:05 <Hyronymus> why.... 15:19:08 <Hyronymus> Unhandled Exception 15:19:09 <Hyronymus> An unhandled exception was thrown by the application. 15:19:20 * Hyronymus fetches coffee 15:19:33 <Terkhen> IIRC it only accepts tar 15:20:25 <Ammler> Terkhen: it allows uploading the zps from DevZone 15:20:30 <Ammler> DevZone does not make tar 15:20:35 <Terkhen> ok 15:20:45 <planetmaker> bananas accepts zips just fine 15:20:56 * planetmaker reads slowly 15:20:56 *** Lycrauss [~Lycrauss@dslb-178-005-186-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:20:59 <planetmaker> today 15:21:10 <Lycrauss> hello guys! i have a question 15:21:22 <planetmaker> hi 15:21:33 <planetmaker> @get topic -3 15:21:33 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: 'topic' is not a valid topic number. 15:21:33 *** Purno [~Purno@5ED23A69.cm-7-3a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 15:21:35 <planetmaker> ;-) 15:21:49 <planetmaker> @topic get -3 15:21:49 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask 15:21:54 <planetmaker> there ;-) 15:21:57 <JVassie> lol 15:22:17 <Lycrauss> in version 0.3.6 there is this fix:Only a server can rename a town in a MP game 15:22:24 <JVassie> @get 41656 15:22:25 <DorpsGek> JVassie: Error: '41655' is not a valid topic number. 15:22:28 <JVassie> LIES 15:22:49 <JVassie> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=41656 15:22:51 <JVassie> see 15:22:51 <Lycrauss> is there a way to change that? 15:22:55 <JVassie> oh wait 15:23:07 <JVassie> wha 15:23:08 <Terkhen> are you really playing with version 0.3.6? 15:23:13 <JVassie> <JVassie> @get 41656 15:23:13 <JVassie> <DorpsGek> JVassie: Error: '41655' is not a valid topic number. 15:23:14 <Lycrauss> no 15:23:15 <JVassie> errr 15:23:30 <Lycrauss> 1.1.1 but the fix is obiously still in there^^ 15:23:48 <Lycrauss> im always playing wit hmy buddy and we would like to rename the citis, both of us 15:24:37 <Terkhen> only the server can rename towns, because otherwise, since renaming is free, griefers would connect to online games and rename every town to whatever 15:24:50 <Terkhen> to my knowledge there is no way to enable renaming of towns for all players 15:25:14 <Eddi|zuHause> but there is no reason to rigorously forbid it either... 15:25:16 <planetmaker> yup, that's the reason afaik 15:25:18 <Lycrauss> no way to make a client "op" or "admin" or something? 15:25:24 <Hyronymus> I keep getting the error 15:25:39 <Hyronymus> and zips fail 15:25:58 <Hyronymus> am using 7zip to create a tar 15:26:15 <planetmaker> try without tar... 15:26:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Hyronymus: made sure the tar is _uncompressed_? 15:26:41 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: yes, it could be changed 15:27:00 <Hyronymus> checking Eddi|zuHause 15:27:32 <Terkhen> hmmm... I suppose that it is not possible to rename stuff using rcon, but I'm not sure 15:27:32 * JVassie rars 15:27:35 <Terkhen> sounds quite unlikely 15:28:42 * SpComb unzips 15:28:47 <Hyronymus> it's uncompressed, Eddi|zuHause 15:28:54 <Hyronymus> can't even choose a compression method 15:29:03 <__ln__> http://asset.soup.io/asset/0453/8747_0991_800.png 15:29:20 <SpComb> __ln__: oldhat 15:30:16 <Lycrauss> so, no chance for clientside-town-renaming at the moment? 15:30:24 <Terkhen> Lycrauss: no, sorry 15:30:42 <Lycrauss> well, ok, thanks for the help! 15:30:52 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: you realize this is 2 years old? 15:31:37 *** Lycrauss [~Lycrauss@dslb-178-005-186-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #openttd [] 15:31:47 <__ln__> nope 15:32:20 <Alberth> lol, that's r1377 :D 15:32:48 <__ln__> a lot of people like things that are even older than 2 years of age. 15:33:07 <Eddi|zuHause> how dare they! 15:33:13 <Alberth> date: Tue Jan 04 19:49:44 2005 +0000 <-- you can say that again :) 15:35:00 <Hyronymus> ok, what ZIP settings do I need for a ZIP to be accepted? 15:35:42 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 15:35:55 <planetmaker> sometimes bananas has issues... but the error description so far was not concise enough to know ;-) 15:37:18 <Hyronymus> I can't help that 15:37:39 <Hyronymus> all I get is "This type is not yet supported." 15:38:01 <Hyronymus> yet gives me some hope that 1 day it'll be supported fortunately 15:38:37 <planetmaker> Did you try another thing than 7zip? 15:39:15 <Hyronymus> no 15:39:28 <Hyronymus> but I started with the ZIP from the Dutch sets page 15:39:38 <Hyronymus> that was made some years ago 15:40:30 <Hyronymus> wtf 15:40:35 <Hyronymus> sorry but really 15:40:38 <Zuu> I always use7zip to make my tar files. 15:40:46 <Zuu> use 7zip* 15:41:06 <Hyronymus> can someone please write at the upload page that a grf file is supposed to be uploaded? 15:42:01 <planetmaker> Zuu: but maybe you have different settings... 7zip is not known for having no config possibilities ;-) 15:45:15 <Ammler> DevZone uses 7zip too 15:50:29 <planetmaker> then it should be no issue. usually 15:50:51 <planetmaker> well... the set seems to be uploaded? 15:50:58 <planetmaker> so... the issue seems solved 15:55:05 <Hyronymus> yes, because a ZIP wasn't required 15:55:21 <Hyronymus> it only accepts grf's it seems 15:55:38 <Hyronymus> quite curious how other sets get their licence included then though 15:59:50 <planetmaker> Hyronymus: it surely accepts zips which include all allowed files (but no additional ones) 16:00:31 <frosch123> if you only need to upload a grf (without custom license or readme), you can iirc directly upload the grf 16:05:08 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-163.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:05:52 <planetmaker> yes, one can 16:23:52 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:24:38 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:07 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ece46.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:25:23 *** ar3k [~ident@eda143.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 16:25:24 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 16:27:42 *** maglev [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:40:10 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:52:55 *** Hyronymus is now known as Hyr|dinner 16:53:05 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 17:01:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:09:35 <andythenorth> bah 17:09:41 <andythenorth> maybe it's time for a break from the game 17:09:55 <Eddi|zuHause> which of the games? 17:10:01 <andythenorth> the game of making things for ottd 17:11:23 <andythenorth> I am increasingly just wanting to flame people - even one's I like 17:11:29 <andythenorth> -' 17:11:48 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:09 <planetmaker> which posting is causing your distress this time, andythenorth ? 17:14:12 *** fjb is now known as Guest1622 17:14:13 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE750.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:14:21 <andythenorth> towboats 17:14:55 <andythenorth> but mostly I think the issue is that I'm working on things out of obligation 17:14:57 <andythenorth> not for fun 17:15:17 <planetmaker> hm :S 17:15:22 <planetmaker> not fun 17:15:32 <andythenorth> I've committed to quite a lot :P 17:16:19 <planetmaker> hehe, yeah 17:16:46 <planetmaker> possibly the p1kka attitude helps there: just work on it... but there's no timeline ;-) 17:17:30 <andythenorth> I have no timeline :) 17:17:48 <andythenorth> the p1kka attitude I need to cultivate is a teflon attitude to player feedback :P 17:17:58 <planetmaker> :-) 17:18:25 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:18:38 <planetmaker> Player feedback is good. But you should realise the stuff _you_ find interesting 17:18:53 <frosch123> Hyr|dinner: the web link for the dutch trainset points to a download location. that is not exactly useful, as bananas already supplies a download. maybe you should link to some homepage or the forum thread instead? 17:19:47 <andythenorth> I should get my sense of humour back. It's lacking :P 17:21:28 <andythenorth> if I start flaming people, I'll look like an idiot :| 17:21:44 *** Guest1622 [~frank@p5DDFF194.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:23:18 <Alberth> you are free to send me a PM if you like 17:24:15 <Alberth> planetmaker: feedback is good, in a positive way imho, ie 'he, you can improve it in this and this way' rather 'that's wrong' 17:24:29 <Alberth> +than 17:24:57 <frosch123> like "he, you can improve it by removing it" ? 17:25:50 <planetmaker> Alberth: sure, you're right 17:25:53 * andythenorth favoured the dalestan effect 17:25:56 <planetmaker> Constructive feedback 17:26:16 <andythenorth> when dalestan was around, the forums had there was a higher standard of....well everything really 17:26:16 <planetmaker> which works along the lines of the intention of a project :-) 17:26:35 <planetmaker> andythenorth: the standard wasn't different really 17:26:42 <andythenorth> objectively probably not :) 17:27:12 <planetmaker> still his knife-edge postings and replies are in a way nice to read 17:27:23 *** Hyr|dinner is now known as Hyronymus 17:27:45 <andythenorth> it makes it appear better :) 17:28:17 <andythenorth> when tested, people report boy babies cry louder than girl babies 17:28:23 <andythenorth> despite decibels being same 17:28:35 <planetmaker> really? :-) 17:29:29 <frosch123> my 4 year old nice definitely cries louder than my 0.5 year old nephew 17:29:41 <planetmaker> :-) 17:29:43 <Rubidium> dB or dB(A) ? 17:29:44 <frosch123> *niece 17:31:22 <andythenorth> this is according to 'science by bbc news website' 17:31:23 <JVassie> LOUDER 17:31:28 <andythenorth> it's hardly Nature magazine :P 17:31:46 <andythenorth> anyway, with dalestan around, forums were probably objective same, but seemed better :) 17:33:04 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 17:36:33 <JVassie> what happened to dalestan? 17:36:48 <JVassie> andythenorth? 17:36:51 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1624 17:36:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has joined #openttd 17:37:04 <Rubidium> AFAIK: lack of time + loss of interest 17:37:10 <JVassie> oh 17:37:49 <planetmaker> he at least managed to hand over the important projects of his :-) 17:37:51 <frosch123> he did about 3 posts in the last year 17:38:38 <andythenorth> speaking of constructive feedback.... 17:38:42 <andythenorth> ...rivers 17:38:55 <Hyronymus> he's missed 17:39:04 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/better_shores_12.png 17:39:06 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/better_shores_11.png 17:39:47 *** Guest1624 [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:39:48 <__ln__> maybe you need a shore leave 17:39:54 <andythenorth> in the _11.png - the ones with dots I think shouldn't exist 17:40:09 <andythenorth> I could draw them, but I'll complain :P 17:40:23 <andythenorth> it's only 6 more sprites 17:40:28 <andythenorth> but they're dumb :P 17:41:26 <andythenorth> Rubidium: probably you get final say? 17:41:59 <Rubidium> oh I do? 17:42:04 <andythenorth> I reckon 17:42:16 <andythenorth> seeing as it was your request 17:43:52 * andythenorth is reading about free monoids, and wishes he was better at maths 17:44:01 <Rubidium> okay... from the center tile 2 to the south east. The border at the NE side probably needs to be slightly darker; now it seems brighter as if it's banking up towards the river instead of down 17:44:04 <planetmaker> monoids? 17:44:28 <frosch123> andythenorth: draw some kind of tunnel entrance at the top edges for some kind of source 17:44:58 <frosch123> rivers starting on a hill is fine, isn't it? 17:45:48 <andythenorth> so what should a river source look like anyway? 17:45:56 <frosch123> and sewer/drain at the bottom 17:46:02 <andythenorth> and should rivers narrow for a few tiles? 17:46:05 <andythenorth> at the end 17:46:08 <andythenorth> unnavigable 17:46:16 <frosch123> andythenorth: some stones, with the joining between them 17:47:14 <andythenorth> Rubidium: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/this_one.png ?? 17:47:27 <andythenorth> ^ the one that looks like it's banking up? 17:47:43 <Rubidium> no, one more to the SE 17:48:13 <andythenorth> ok understood 17:48:14 <Rubidium> the edge seems lighter than the grass tile next to it, whereas on the one you circled the grass tile next to it is brighter 17:49:01 <andythenorth> yeah it's shaded wrong 17:49:03 <andythenorth> I'll fix 17:49:54 *** ar3kaw [~ident@eda143.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: âI-n-v-i-s-i-o-nâ 3.2 (July '10)] 17:50:12 <andythenorth> I'll draw the silly slope peices as springs / sinkholes 17:50:39 <andythenorth> I haven't redrawn most of the small corner pieces, they looked ok 17:52:24 * andythenorth hopes other climates get done with flood-fill :P 17:53:02 <andythenorth> can someone point out in the FISH thread why the towboat can't be drawn as they all want it? 17:53:08 <andythenorth> the answer should be obvious 17:53:29 <andythenorth> here's the version they all hate: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=146348 17:56:03 <andythenorth> ach nvm 17:56:04 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=146437 17:56:57 *** Pixa [~Pixa@79-68-103-48.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:57:29 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=146439 17:59:47 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:05 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1625 18:00:05 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has joined #openttd 18:00:05 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 18:00:09 *** Guest1625 [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:07 <Ammler> looks nice, the glitch is quite obvious and not really that bad 18:02:26 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host67-115-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:02:55 <andythenorth> Ammler: looks ok yes? 18:03:03 <andythenorth> and if it was another barge longer? 18:03:11 <andythenorth> or even 9 barges, as suggested? 18:03:11 <Ammler> how does that matter 18:03:20 <Ammler> just don't make a screenshot in that case 18:03:51 <andythenorth> already it clips buildings 18:04:00 <andythenorth> maybe it's actually just a bad idea and should be removed 18:04:01 <Ammler> as long as there are not articulated ships, you can't avoid it 18:04:20 <Alberth> you just need to have a wider canal 18:04:46 <andythenorth> so I should just do it as they want? 1 barge central, 2 barges, 2 barges, 1 tugboat central 18:04:52 <andythenorth> as it's clipping anyway 18:05:15 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:03 <Alberth> is there one that makes you happy? 18:06:50 <andythenorth> this is mockup of length if I do it as requested: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/extra_barge.png 18:07:20 <Ammler> do you like it? 18:07:22 <Alberth> although it may be better to let it rest for a few months, it is quite impossible to make up your mind objectively now, I think 18:07:34 <andythenorth> doing it that long - it will flicker a lot as it fights the sprite sorter 18:07:57 <andythenorth> but apparently that's desired 18:08:11 <Wolf01> evening 18:08:15 <andythenorth> hello Wolf01 18:08:23 <Alberth> I like the 2, 2, 1+boat version better (that you originally wanted) 18:09:49 <andythenorth> the desired 9 barge version would look like this: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/9_barge.png 18:10:08 <andythenorth> and would clip out of canals, locks, rivers and ship depots 18:10:31 <andythenorth> it would however be realistic 18:11:19 <Alberth> all too big imho 18:11:37 <Alberth> you are aware I don't care about realism, right? :) 18:12:25 <Alberth> if you want a balanced one, 2,2,boat would be it, I think 18:12:39 <Alberth> or do you want larger ones? 18:20:58 <andythenorth> for gameplay reason, I want a large one 18:21:07 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 18:21:07 <andythenorth> it's a question of capacity + range of refits 18:21:39 <andythenorth> 1,2,3,4,5 barges with ~200t ea 18:21:46 <andythenorth> makes a nice ship 18:23:47 *** staN [~Miranda@f053200159.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:26:17 <Alberth> but bigger than 5 barges? 18:27:58 <Alberth> if not, then you first design looks fine to me 18:28:02 <Alberth> *your 18:28:48 <Alberth> you can make one with 4 barges for people that worry about steering abilities of the captain ;) 18:29:05 <andythenorth> not bigger than 5 18:29:32 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:30:03 <Alberth> I like that, bigger just gets too bulky imho 18:30:14 <andythenorth> Rubidium: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/better_shores_12a.png 18:30:19 <andythenorth> fix of tile slope 18:31:00 <andythenorth> fixed sufficiently? 18:41:37 <andythenorth> what is gained by these being different sprites? http://tt-foundry.com/misc/duplicate_shores.png 18:41:50 <andythenorth> whoever designed river spec was basically setting them up to never get drawn :P 18:41:57 <andythenorth> it's way too anal 18:42:22 <andythenorth> way / slightly /s 18:44:25 <frosch123> andythenorth: using different sprites near shore is something opengfx wanted 18:44:36 <frosch123> river specs do not need different graphics 18:44:40 <andythenorth> there are at least 4 more sprites I can't identify a use for 18:44:51 <frosch123> however, ogfx uses a varaction2 to check the height and use different sprites 18:45:00 <frosch123> so, i guess those sprites should just be the same 18:45:00 <andythenorth> ah hah 18:45:13 <frosch123> no need to draw them twice, the nfo can reference the same :) 18:45:20 <andythenorth> hmm 18:45:29 <andythenorth> I should recode this grf :P 18:45:37 <andythenorth> but that wasn't part of the plan 18:45:52 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/water-features 18:47:08 *** welshdragon [~dragon@anubis.millsie.net] has joined #openttd 18:48:20 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:50:54 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:52:44 *** Osai^2 [~Osai@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 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[~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 19:45:40 <Wolf01> 'night 19:45:42 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host67-115-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 19:47:56 *** ar3k [~ident@eda143.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 19:47:58 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 19:52:37 *** staN [~Miranda@f053200159.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:53 *** lugo- [lugo@89.238.177.145] has quit [Quit: void] 19:56:29 *** TWerkhoven2 [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:57:33 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 20:00:03 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:01:14 <Eddi|zuHause> http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/178/googlewennich.jpg 20:04:37 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0ee81.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:06:02 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:14:22 *** lugo [lugo@89.238.177.145] has joined #openttd 20:15:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22650 /branches/1.1/ (11 files in 3 dirs): 20:15:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk: 20:15:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: When changing difficulty settings over the network, do not just reopen the difficulty window if any game options window is opened; instead invalidate them properly [FS#4653] (r22618, r22617) 20:15:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] If callback 33 returns a value out of range, no sound effect shall be played [FS#4656] (r22614) 20:15:22 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Use rotated heightmap sizes for reporting scaling problems [FS#4663] (r22608) 20:15:22 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: No client error packet was sent to the admin bots [FS#4585] (r22384) 20:16:07 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:18:33 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-075-244-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 20:19:16 <frosch123> night 20:19:21 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f522d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22651 /branches/1.1/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 20:20:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk: 20:20:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: When closing an AI company the local player cheated to, we need to cheat him to another company [FS#4654] (r22624, r22623) 20:20:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: When closing down companies their shares in other companies must be sold even if share trading is disabled at that point of time (r22622) 20:20:18 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: When asking the user to confirm an unsafe unpausing, there is no need to execute a command if 'no' is choosed. This also prevents crashing when clicking unpause while the confirm window is shown (r22621) 20:20:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Enforce refit orders to be 'always go to depot' orders; service-only and stop-in-depot orders make no sense with refitting [FS#4651] (r22620) 20:20:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Consider the size of the vehicle sprite for the lineheight in the company 20:22:49 *** PhoenixII [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 20:22:49 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22652 /branches/1.1/ (10 files in 4 dirs): 20:23:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk: 20:23:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Implement variables 25 and 7F for railtypes (r22633) 20:23:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Additional text in fund industry window is NewGRF supplied and thus should have a default colour (r22631) 20:23:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Also initialise _old_vds with newgame settings; TTD savegames do not contain these settings [FS#4622] (r22626) 20:23:16 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not zero the orders of disaster vehicles when converting savegames [FS#4642] (r22625) 20:23:56 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 20:26:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22653 /branches/1.1/ (18 files in 2 dirs): 20:26:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk: 20:26:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Disable the 'set parameters' button in the NewGRF GUI, if the GRF specifies to have no parameters and one would not be able to set any parameters anyway (r22642) 20:26:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Keep the previous owner of the upper and lower lock parts if they are built on existing water (r22638) 20:26:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Airports should not expose the tile specific random bits of the north tile. Only airport tiles should access those (r22636) 20:26:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Correctly reseed random bits of industries and industry tiles (r22635, r22634) 20:32:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22654 /branches/1.1/ (39 files in 3 dirs): 20:32:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk: 20:32:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Switching from a red to a white highlight (by switching to another tool) without switching the highlight mode (HT_RECT etc.) did not mark the selection dirty [FS#4670] (r22649) 20:32:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Parameters from NewGRFs were not properly parsed in all cases [FS#4599] (r22648, r22630, r22629, r22628, r22627) 20:32:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: GetSection() does not return a LockPart [FS#4678] (r22645) 20:32:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Disallow building NewObjects on water tiles owned by another company (r22643) 20:39:12 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: The Third Tiberium War - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 20:42:10 *** Pixa [~Pixa@79-68-103-48.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 20:46:34 *** TWerkhoven2 [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:55:59 <planetmaker> good night 21:02:23 <Terkhen> good night 21:02:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has left #openttd [] 21:03:51 *** George is now known as Guest1640 21:03:55 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 21:09:01 *** Guest1640 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:11:21 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:31 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:36:53 *** Pixa [~Pixa@79-68-103-48.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:44:10 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has left #openttd [] 21:45:49 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 21:47:38 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:48:02 *** Pixa [~Pixa@79-68-103-48.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 21:48:35 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-075-244-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:51:27 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 21:53:11 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:57 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:03:57 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 22:04:32 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:07:20 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:08:54 *** Pixa [~Pixa@79-68-103-48.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:09:58 *** Firzen [~Neon@dslb-094-219-018-086.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... 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