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00:13:59 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:37:56 *** Pikka [~Figgy@d58-111-88-82.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:39:28 *** KittenKoder [~kitten@174-24-255-9.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:42:06 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.86.77] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 00:42:41 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 00:47:47 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:53:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6AC39.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:53:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6AC39.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 01:01:59 *** Pikka [~Figgy@d58-111-88-82.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:08:15 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:f051:3f45:7aa:3c07] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:14:01 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:24:41 *** ar3k [ident@ecd226.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:57 *** ar3k [~ident@ecd226.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 01:24:59 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 02:36:45 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 03:19:15 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 03:39:56 *** Mazur is now known as Guest3787 03:39:56 *** Guest3787 [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:39:57 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 03:53:07 *** Chris_Booth_ [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:50:32 *** Sevalecan [~Sevalecan@66-227-145-102.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #openttd 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B734D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B72BDD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:59:26 *** Pikka [~Figgy@d58-111-88-82.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:18:17 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.68] has joined #openttd 05:20:16 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.68] has quit [] 05:28:15 *** fjb is now known as Guest3795 05:28:16 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE752.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:35:04 *** Guest3795 [~frank@p5DDFF5DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:13:23 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e090e25.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:21:26 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 06:22:06 <Pikka> isn't it? 06:25:26 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 06:29:50 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 06:53:31 *** strider_ani [~Strider@203.214.36.108] has joined #openttd 06:53:49 <strider_ani> Hello o/ 06:54:20 <strider_ani> Anyone online? 07:03:05 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 07:03:21 <strider_ani> helloooooo? 07:04:26 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [] 07:06:23 <dihedral> good morning 07:06:28 <strider_ani> Morning 07:07:26 <dihedral> bfrog, if you are interested in programming in java - i wr[oi]te joan :-P 07:09:51 <strider_ani> Does anyone want to play a multiplayer game with me? I'm pretty new at this. 07:10:12 <dihedral> sorry - i do not play :-P 07:10:36 <dihedral> but you might be interested in looking at the openttdcoop public game 07:10:54 <strider_ani> I tried that. I'm always too scared to do anything cus I suck 07:11:10 <dihedral> if you do not start you will not improve 07:11:23 <dihedral> suck as much as you like .... that sounds odd but yeah! 07:11:28 <dihedral> and others will help you improve 07:11:33 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:13:10 <strider_ani> Ok I'll give it another shot I guess 07:13:56 <dihedral> i am sure you sucked pretty badly when you learned how to walk 07:14:03 <dihedral> but hey - you so far always got up :-P 07:14:59 <strider_ani> Thanks 07:17:08 <planetmaker> strider_ani: you can always start on the stable server 07:17:23 <planetmaker> which basically is a free-play server 07:17:36 <planetmaker> but still there's lots of helpful people around there usually 07:17:44 <planetmaker> moin also :-) 07:19:23 <strider_ani> Which on is that? I've only been able to find the coop one 07:30:07 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-009-117.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:31:39 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:33:54 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0e719.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 07:37:34 *** Firzen [~Neon@dslb-094-219-009-117.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:39:09 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-009-117.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:40:49 *** strider_ani1 [~Strider@124-168-86-132.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:45:07 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:45:10 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:47:04 *** strider_ani [~Strider@203.214.36.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:03:14 <planetmaker> strider_ani1: #openttdcoop has more than one server ;-) 08:03:50 <planetmaker> We have a 'stable' one which runs the latest of testing or stable releases. That's basically free and fair play. But a lot of people also have joint companies there. Depends really on the game 08:04:06 <planetmaker> and we have our 'main' server which runs a nightly version. Which is strictly coop only 08:04:18 <Alberth> moin planetmaker 08:04:38 <planetmaker> hello Alberth :-) 08:05:44 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:06:19 <planetmaker> Alberth: the common idea iirc behind the citybuilder is to establish it as a goal. Similar to this hack: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=44319&hilit=citybuilder 08:06:46 <planetmaker> but I guess you know that in principle ;-) 08:06:47 <Alberth> ah, yet another goal :) 08:09:43 <Alberth> hmm, stockpiling for a city, not going to work in newgrf I think 08:10:16 <planetmaker> nope. Nor will the subsequent acceptance of a city work via newgrf 08:10:34 <planetmaker> like first establish cargo route for type A, then B, then C or similar 08:11:05 <planetmaker> because without the city wouldn't continue to grow or so. 08:11:19 <planetmaker> that's - iirc - how the citybuilders work. roughly speaking 08:12:03 <planetmaker> and from my feeble knowledge of a some-time-ago joining one of such servers 08:17:07 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecd226.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:17:07 *** ar3k [~ident@ecd226.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 08:17:07 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 08:17:07 <Alberth> cargo routes are already known as 'subsidies', so that would be feasible :) 08:18:13 <planetmaker> :-) 08:18:38 *** strider_ani1 [~Strider@124-168-86-132.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #openttd [] 08:18:40 <planetmaker> I guess the goal only cares about delivery to your 'claimed' town. Which you do by... I guess building your HQ there 08:19:07 <Alberth> good idea 08:19:32 <Alberth> but the city responding to your actions... could be nice 08:19:47 <planetmaker> yes, iirc they do that of sorts 08:20:32 <planetmaker> and it obviously is popular 08:21:52 <Alberth> anything 'goal' would be popular, probably. Western people seem very lost without a goal 08:22:12 <planetmaker> well. It gives you a sense of achievement 08:23:44 *** Biolunar_ [mahdi@blfd-4db0e719.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 08:24:19 <Alberth> yeah, even in our free time we want to win 08:24:35 *** fjunike [~fjunike@p4FD22B8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:24:40 <planetmaker> of course ;-) 08:25:06 <planetmaker> especially those who didn't win in their non-free time 08:25:49 <fjunike> hi there 08:26:01 <Alberth> hi 08:26:39 <fjunike> a frind of my created a svegame with an ( in the name now the file is corrupted :) 08:26:58 <fjunike> did ottd check savegame names? 08:27:18 <Alberth> currently, I am not winning the industry generation battle :p 08:27:24 <planetmaker> no, it should not care, fjunike 08:27:57 <fjunike> ok so it isn't dau compatible 08:28:08 * planetmaker hands albert 42 new industries and the uniform distribution 08:28:18 <planetmaker> fjunike: what makes you think the game is not really corruptedà 08:28:19 <planetmaker> ? 08:28:26 <planetmaker> do you use the same version? 08:28:31 <planetmaker> patched version maybe? 08:28:40 <planetmaker> then all bets are off 08:29:02 <fjunike> no he cannot open the savegame again and he could not delete or rename the file 08:29:26 <planetmaker> your file system manager surely can rename it 08:29:28 <Alberth> planetmaker: I need less industries, not more :p The backoff algorithm is not good enough 08:29:41 <planetmaker> less.... hm 08:30:00 <Alberth> it is still trying too hard 08:30:25 <planetmaker> less trial runs? 08:30:40 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0e719.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:30:44 <planetmaker> but that's too easy, you'll have tried that 08:30:53 <fjunike> winexplorer told me file not readable 08:30:54 <Alberth> that just slows it down, it does not stop it from trying 08:31:52 <fjunike> but this is not my problem ;) 08:32:23 <fjunike> i just wont to know is ottd checking the savegamename bevor its stores the file to hdd 08:32:35 <Alberth> check how? 08:32:38 <Alberth> or what? 08:32:43 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B71D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:32:45 <fjunike> illigal charakters 08:33:00 <planetmaker> fjunike: a ( is not an illegal character on most filesystems 08:33:06 <planetmaker> so that definitely is not the cause 08:33:20 <planetmaker> if the OS works all fine, OpenTTD cannot screw the filesystem 08:33:26 <Alberth> fjunike: illegal characters won't get through the OS 08:33:26 <planetmaker> as it uses the OS interfaces to write 08:34:07 <planetmaker> an undeletable file is an OS problem which OpenTTD cannot cause on its own 08:34:18 <planetmaker> it needs strong collaborators there ;-) 08:34:31 <fjunike> a ok the he did somthing he dont told me 08:35:01 <planetmaker> and... we could possibly only tell what goes wrong if there's a reproducable way to achieve that 08:35:09 <planetmaker> which then should be reported to our bug tracker 08:35:23 <fjunike> ok thanks for that information 08:35:41 <Alberth> openttd is multi-platform, so it only uses generic mechanisms for file maniplulations that work everywhere 08:35:46 <fjunike> ahhh it was an : 08:36:10 <fjunike> he want to make an :) into his filename 08:36:22 <planetmaker> try to delete the file from command prompt might help 08:36:36 <fjunike> same error 08:36:40 <Alberth> so winexplorer is the buggy party here :) 08:36:52 <fjunike> i know ;) 08:36:53 <Alberth> fjunike: with " around the name? 08:37:17 <fjunike> now just blah :).sav 08:37:32 <fjunike> the ":" musst be the problem 08:38:02 <fjunike> i will delete the file win an live linux later 08:38:11 <Alberth> I mean at the command prompt : del "bla:).sav" 08:38:11 <planetmaker> it's under windows interpreted as the drive letter postfix 08:38:38 <Alberth> good point, perhaps del "c:\path\bla:).sav" ? 08:38:44 <fjunike> i try to do that in the cmd but it dost work 08:39:04 <fjunike> dosnt 08:39:23 <Alberth> doesn't :) 08:39:24 <peter1138> weird that windows lets that filename be created 08:39:49 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC42E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:40:12 <Alberth> probably windows doesn't even agree with itself about what a legal filename is :) 08:40:22 <planetmaker> most likely ;-) 08:40:53 <fjunike> k but if i try to rename a file a can not include a : 08:41:41 <Alberth> not with the program you use currently, at least 08:42:06 <planetmaker> maybe escaping the : by \ helps, too 08:42:33 <fjunike> i cant rename it 08:42:36 <Alberth> that's a directory separator :p 08:43:21 <peter1138> does a chkdsk pick it up? 08:44:11 <Alberth> or a del *.* in interactive mode? 08:44:21 *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A1C00D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:44:31 <peter1138> mm 08:44:45 <fjunike> i deletet it with an LiveLinux 08:44:52 <fjunike> works fine 08:45:02 <planetmaker> Alberth: I guess it's similarily nasty like a filename called "-" (without quotes) 08:45:17 <Noldo_> ... is also nice 08:45:25 <Alberth> planetmaker: nope: rm ./- 08:45:30 <planetmaker> the unaware users stumble overt these very hard 08:45:38 <planetmaker> Alberth: yes 08:45:44 <planetmaker> but... :-) 08:45:51 <Alberth> planetmaker: a file called * is much more fun :p 08:45:53 <peter1138> or rm -- - 08:45:59 <planetmaker> hehe 08:46:26 <peter1138> not so hard 08:46:29 <peter1138> $ ls "*" 08:46:29 <peter1138> ls: cannot access *: No such file or directory 08:47:13 <planetmaker> still, I keep away from filenames which start with - or contain * ;-) 08:47:19 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B71D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:47:20 <peter1138> :) 08:47:25 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 08:47:33 <Alberth> or a space :) 08:47:47 <planetmaker> I don't like space anywhere in filenames either, yes 08:48:18 <Alberth> hmm, a filename with a TAB would be fun too :p 08:48:21 <planetmaker> but they do exist, while filenames with beginning with - or a * anywhere don't exist on my disks 08:48:39 <planetmaker> (tab don't exist on my hdds either) ;-) 08:48:55 <planetmaker> but you could use or so :-P 08:48:57 <peter1138> some people feel similarly about source code 08:49:58 <Alberth> which imho is better than trying to make a TAB character less than 8 characters wide 08:51:59 <peter1138> :set ts=... ;) 08:52:27 <Alberth> I know, but give the file to someone else and it breaks 08:52:31 <peter1138> i don't really care, as long as it's consistent 08:52:49 <peter1138> ah, but it doesn't break. they just get 8 character tabs 08:53:49 <Alberth> as specified in the file :p 08:53:50 <peter1138> i do rather dislike spaces for indents less than 8 08:54:01 <Alberth> why? 08:54:04 <peter1138> and then tabs for indents of 8 08:54:27 <peter1138> that's the only case where it really messes up 08:54:29 <Alberth> oh, yeah, mixing spaces and TABs is just bad 08:54:46 <dihedral> peter1138> and then tabs for indents of 8 <- that sounds like your tabs are converted to spaces :-P 08:55:34 <dihedral> i prefer indenting with tabs and aligning with spaces :-) 08:56:04 <planetmaker> ^ 08:56:26 <planetmaker> though tab indentation makes alignment with spaces impossible, if indentation might change ;-) 08:57:45 <peter1138> no it doesn't 08:57:56 <peter1138> if it does you've mixed them incorrectly 08:58:14 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:58:49 *** fjunike [~fjunike@p4FD22B8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 09:01:08 <Alberth> there are some things you cannot do with that policy, like indenting a sub struct { } and aligning the comments of the fields after it 09:01:16 <Alberth> but that does not happen too often 09:02:23 *** fjunike [~fjunike@p4FD22B8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:03:07 *** fjunike [~fjunike@p4FD22B8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 09:03:31 <dihedral> ^^ 09:03:41 <dihedral> Alberth, at least not in tcl, java, php :-P 09:03:45 <dihedral> or erlang 09:04:10 *** fjunike [~fjunike@p4FD22B8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:09:08 <fjunike> so i try to make the same mistake on my pc 09:09:18 <fjunike> and saved a file with an : 09:10:15 <fjunike> ottd created a file with 0kb 09:10:55 <fjunike> windows donts allow to rename or delete it 09:12:26 <fjunike> the file i created named "test:test.sav" ottd creats a file "test " 09:14:46 <planetmaker> but blubber:nixalsverdruss is a valid filename here ;-) 09:15:24 <fjunike> not in windows 09:16:08 <fjunike> i never seen a : in a filename 09:16:53 <planetmaker> ingo@aeolus:~> cat blubber\:nix 09:16:53 <planetmaker> dks 09:17:29 <fjunike> \ / are not allow to 09:18:13 <planetmaker> yeah, windows is stupid ;-) 09:18:42 <fjunike> yes but most in use ;) 09:19:05 <planetmaker> fjunike: I suggest you report your problem to our bog tracker and then maybe one of the windows developer could look at it. 09:19:17 <planetmaker> Though I tend to believe it's a windows error, not an OpenTTD error 09:19:44 <fjunike> if my c++ would be better i would do it by my own 09:22:55 <__ln__> it's surprising if windows allows an application to create a filename with a : 09:23:52 <fjunike> it is 09:25:20 <__ln__> i've seen such a filename on ntfs, but it was created on linux, and chkdsk considered it an error 09:25:42 <Ammler> why? 09:25:44 <Pikka> who's your bog tracker? 09:26:06 <fjunike> http://bugs.openttd.org/ 09:26:25 <Pikka> seems boggy 09:27:13 <planetmaker> :-) 09:27:40 <planetmaker> seems I learnt a new word 09:29:33 <Ammler> you learnt us :-P 09:30:06 <planetmaker> look it up in the dictionary ;-) 09:35:35 <Alberth> dihedral: I don't know about tcl and php, but java doesn't even have a '///<' style comment, so commenting fields is hopeless anyway 09:36:29 *** fjunike [~fjunike@p4FD22B8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 09:54:14 *** Biolunar_ is now known as Biolunar 09:58:06 *** sdasd [~5d713e5d@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 10:00:14 *** sdasd [~5d713e5d@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [] 10:09:15 <Terkhen> hello 10:12:46 *** fjunike [~fjunike@p4FD22B8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:36:24 *** fjunike [~fjunike@p4FD22B8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 10:51:45 *** Guest2057 is now known as yorick 11:21:47 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: The Third Tiberium War - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 11:28:28 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 11:31:13 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Quit: *Throws a nuclear warhead in the room and flees*] 11:31:31 *** ar3k [~ident@ecz225.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 11:33:28 *** SmatZ [~smatz@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:33:58 *** Osai [~Osai@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:34:40 *** SmatZ [~smatz@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:35:24 <dihedral> Alberth, they don't have that style of comment, no 11:36:10 *** Osai [~Osai@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:36:53 <dihedral> Osai? 11:37:06 <dihedral> oh 11:37:07 <dihedral> :-( 11:37:42 <planetmaker> the long-lost child on life-support ;-) 11:38:53 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecd226.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:40:57 <dihedral> yes 11:40:59 <dihedral> totally 11:41:17 <dihedral> but i thought he gets messages to his phone 11:41:27 <planetmaker> I guess he might 11:41:30 <dihedral> Osai, it would be quite nice of you to join IRC and say hello again ;-) 11:43:44 <planetmaker> I fear he's lost like so many good fellows... like Mucht. and Aali and Celestar and ... so on 11:43:52 <dihedral> :-( 11:43:55 <dihedral> :'( 11:44:04 <dihedral> the (IRC) world is just not the same anymore 11:44:20 <dihedral> s/IRC/OpenTTD/ 11:44:21 <planetmaker> it's always been changing and the earlier times were always better :-P 11:44:38 <dihedral> "frÃŒher war die Zukunft auch besser" :-P 11:45:25 <planetmaker> :-P 11:45:32 <planetmaker> nevertheless pretty quiet currently 11:45:56 <dihedral> which is a real shame 11:46:14 <planetmaker> ^^ 11:46:30 <planetmaker> there could be so many things added for big benefit... 11:46:58 <dihedral> ... 11:47:01 * dihedral hides in shame 11:48:10 <planetmaker> yacd, roadtypes, newgrf bridges, newgrf towns,... newgrf road stops, ... revamp of the newgame gui, font config. GUI zoom (aka extra zoom levels),.... 11:48:19 <planetmaker> font config 11:48:33 <planetmaker> multiplayer scenario editor 11:48:44 <planetmaker> anyway, the SE offers many options for improvement 11:49:23 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Planetmaker/v2 :-P 11:49:24 <dihedral> aye 11:49:44 <dihedral> i knew you had multipile personalities 11:49:49 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:50:10 <dihedral> goal/script framework could fit into the admin stuff 11:51:24 <planetmaker> IMHO yes. Depends on the approach 11:51:40 <planetmaker> could also fit in an extended AI framework 11:51:54 <planetmaker> or rather super-classed 11:52:01 <planetmaker> or however you want to call it ;-) 11:52:35 <Alberth> dihedral: goals should be nicely useable in SP too 11:53:04 <dihedral> Alberth, who says that the admin thingy needs to be disabled for SP? 11:53:28 <planetmaker> it needs the network support / stack enabled. Which currently it's not in SP 11:53:37 <dihedral> true 11:53:56 <Alberth> and Joe Average will not be able to set that up 11:54:03 <dihedral> but, the goal for money is already doable 11:54:13 <dihedral> Alberth, that is quite true 11:55:08 <Alberth> which reduces the goal idea either to some C++ code, or as part of the NoAI framework. 11:55:36 <Alberth> the former should declare the goal 'reached', imho. an admin thingie can then restart the server or whatever 11:56:27 <planetmaker> or a separate goal script API :-P 11:56:33 <dihedral> it could be a layer available to both (to certain extents) 11:57:02 <dihedral> so you can write goal handling in sq and also have the triggers available to the admin network ;-) 11:58:40 <dihedral> scenarios reworked sounds interesting too 11:58:59 <dihedral> sounds like a 'scripted scn' ;-) 11:59:29 <Alberth> that would be possible 12:00:12 * Alberth ponders whether "static FORCEINLINE int method()" makes sense 12:01:12 <dihedral> though the goal thing appeals most to my sense of that world ;-) 12:03:12 <Alberth> 'that world' ? 12:08:26 <dihedral> ^^ 12:08:46 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 12:08:51 <dihedral> i find gui stuff horrible 12:09:33 <Alberth> how much do you need ? 12:09:47 <Alberth> wouldn't it be mostly sq script? 12:09:58 <dihedral> exactly 12:10:21 <dihedral> i enjoy network stuff, the console, and think goal stuff would be quite fitting 12:11:03 <Alberth> on MP it is quite important, people want to win, even in their free time, apparently 12:11:13 <dihedral> :-D 12:12:00 <Alberth> but making it exclusively for MP (that is, by running an admin interface) would be a step too far, imho 12:12:42 <dihedral> but only making it available by sq scripts would be not far enough 12:13:23 <Alberth> ... 12:13:36 <Alberth> (ie what can you not do with a sq script?) 12:19:38 <dihedral> the point would not be what you could 'not' do 12:20:08 <dihedral> the point would be, limiting the goal stuff to sq scripts rather than also allowing goals to be defined by external tools 12:22:16 <Alberth> that needs a comm channel to the sq script, right? 12:22:17 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:23:09 <Alberth> like a 'person' in the chat? 12:24:44 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@baud.org.uk] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 12:24:50 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d170:6481:c555:be9b] has joined #openttd 12:24:53 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:25:00 <dihedral> Alberth, if i correctly understand what you mean, no 12:25:20 <dihedral> the admin network is a binary protocol of which chat is only one small part 12:26:28 <Alberth> you want to duplicate the scenario API both to sq and to admin? 12:26:57 <Alberth> how do you decide who is right when both are running? 12:27:10 <Alberth> how do you coordinate both? 12:27:14 <dihedral> the goal API 12:27:39 *** diego_ob [~bd3bbc6e@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 12:27:39 <dihedral> i'd disable the admin network as soon as a sq script is running - an either or 12:27:49 <diego_ob> ola 12:27:57 <diego_ob> alguem fala portugues 12:28:05 <dihedral> nao 12:28:24 <diego_ob> thanks 12:28:25 <dihedral> fala ingles 12:28:32 <diego_ob> so pt br 12:28:43 <dihedral> 5 words :-D 12:29:02 <Alberth> 1 to go :) 12:29:04 <diego_ob> pra que serve esse chat? so p flar de openttd mesmo? 12:29:08 <dihedral> oi, tudo bem, boa noite, bom dia, ... 12:29:12 <__ln__> no hablamos portugues 12:29:41 <dihedral> "ich hab schon gegessen, danke" :-P 12:29:54 <diego_ob> eu não falo muito bem espanhol 12:30:09 <__ln__> hier essen oder mitnehmen? 12:30:13 <Alberth> diego_ob: if you want to talk to us, talk english 12:30:21 <diego_ob> pero creo que el terminal a vivir con ella 12:30:24 <dihedral> eu fala nao espanhol :-P 12:30:38 <dihedral> aye 12:31:07 <diego_ob> hasta chicos y chicas 12:31:18 <dihedral> and that still is not english 12:31:22 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@baud.org.uk] has joined #openttd 12:31:43 *** diego_ob [~bd3bbc6e@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [] 12:32:04 <__ln__> would be so much simpler if everyone spoke finnish on this planet 12:32:33 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 12:32:34 <Noldo_> really 12:32:40 <dihedral> but then we'd never have to start ... as all would be "finnish" :-P 12:33:16 <dihedral> Alberth, do you not think it could also make sense to have access to the goal api via the admin network? 12:34:28 <Alberth> I see no use, but my perception of 'admin' may be way off :) 12:34:44 <Alberth> ie I consider it more server management than game management 12:35:04 <Alberth> but in 'could', sure it might be of use. 12:36:26 <Eddi|zuHause> admin port may be used to tell someone they have reached a goal, but it can not influence the game (e.g. enforce town growth) 12:36:42 <Alberth> my main concern is that it duplicates functionality, and is not compatible with eachother, ie I cannot run my sq script over the admin interface 12:37:30 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: like 'you can monitor only' 12:38:04 <planetmaker> probably, considering network issues for SP, an extension / generalization of the NoAI API to additionally accomodate goal or event scripts might be sensible. 12:38:37 <Alberth> dihedral: do you think some-one will write a binary for the admin interface if he can write sq too? 12:39:01 <Eddi|zuHause> event/scenaro/tutorial scripts are definitely missing 12:39:35 <Alberth> tutorial is more invasive, as imho you should also be able to handle windows 12:39:57 <Alberth> which is doable, but then you can abuse that for making an assisting AI 12:39:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that would be a fairly integral part 12:40:49 <Alberth> copy/paste would be trivial :p 12:41:46 <Eddi|zuHause> there would need to be measures for having this script only run server-side 12:43:11 <planetmaker> well. The NoAI API currently ensures that it's only run server-side 12:43:18 <dihedral> Alberth, the admin network allows bots to connect which already get updates on economy and player stats (if they so wish) 12:43:48 <dihedral> therefore allowing a connected bot to say, x money has been earned by player y - this ends the game, is not too far off 12:44:07 <dihedral> and, no - it cannot really influence the game with 'town growth' it just gets a butt load of info 12:44:10 <Alberth> except it breaks in SP 12:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, but if you want to display GUI dialogs, they need some way to transfer this data to the client, and receive an answer 12:44:47 <Alberth> if instead you have the SQ script decide 'x money has been earned by player y', and then the admin interface decides 'end of game', you are compatible 12:44:49 <planetmaker> of course 12:44:50 <dihedral> so in theory an API accessible to both could be interesting 12:45:13 <dihedral> Alberth, the info is already available to the admin interface 12:45:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm imagining a dialog like the vehicle prototype window, that can display text/graphics and return a yes/no/maybe/next tuesday answer 12:45:50 <Alberth> (14:45:50) Alberth: except it breaks in SP <-- dihedral 12:45:58 <dihedral> yes 12:46:03 <dihedral> hence, an API available to both 12:46:19 <dihedral> or - sq can extend notifications to admin port 12:46:33 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes. And that dialogue could be the first which is then exposed to that framework ;-) 12:47:14 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes. but the text and answer need to be built into some Cmd 12:47:15 <dihedral> that way you could ensure only one sq script to be running too 12:47:38 <planetmaker> Yes... which might be the problem. 12:50:03 <Alberth> how? 12:50:16 <Alberth> oh, 64 bit of data :) 12:51:17 <dihedral> Alberth, what do you think of the goal api allowing communication with a bot connected to the admin network? 12:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i think there was a way to transfer a string 12:52:27 <dihedral> would an int not suffice? 12:52:48 <Alberth> dihedral: communication between a bot and what? 12:52:54 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: to transfer the whole text of a dialog window, and specify the return values? 12:54:30 <dihedral> oh - yes :-P 12:54:32 <Alberth> dihedral: giving out goals reached from the sq to the bot, I see use for that. The other way around, much much much less use, if at all 12:54:58 *** LordAro [56951e1e@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 12:55:08 <LordAro> moin 12:55:12 <dihedral> not even a staging goals? i.e. define 10 goals which all need to be reached and that in orders based on whatever? :-P 12:55:37 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, what I envision are dialogues as the new vehicle available one (which take parameter engineID and VehicleType) and which could then be referenced to as the newgrf messages now 12:55:44 <planetmaker> thus not the whole string needs declaration 12:55:52 *** LordAro [56951e1e@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [] 12:55:54 <Alberth> welcome dear lord aro, please enter our humble virtual house 12:55:57 *** LordAro [56951e1e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 12:55:59 <planetmaker> OpenTTD could then introduce (within its own code) other such dialogues 12:56:30 <LordAro> Alberth: :) 12:56:49 <Alberth> dihedral: that's about the only use I can see, but I am not convinced writing that in the same sq script wouldn't be easier 12:56:50 <dihedral> Alberth, the idea sounds good :-) 12:56:51 <planetmaker> Another dialogue could be like "Town needs {string} in order to continue growth" 12:56:52 <planetmaker> etc pp 12:57:10 <planetmaker> and the script's task would be to time these conditions 12:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: for a tutorial-type script there may be use for displaying a sprite, like "press this button: {sprite}" 12:57:46 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: tutorials would be locally only, imho 12:58:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yes, but that should use the same infrastructure 12:58:38 <dihedral> however, i find it could be quite interesting if a server did not just have a single goal to reach 12:58:49 <dihedral> and if goals were 'randomly' distributed amongst players 12:58:57 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes, a tutorial has extended requirements 12:59:47 <planetmaker> and yes, a tutorial should probably be only local. And could be another extension to a noai api - only active in SP 13:02:25 <Alberth> dihedral: sure, but why should a bot decide that? (I am not against such a comm channel between bot & sq, I just see no use for it, as anyhing you want can be programmed in sq too) 13:03:52 <dihedral> the bot is external - i.e. it can get info from a website, database, irc, <whatever> and base desisions on anything 13:04:14 <dihedral> sq uses openttd cpu time, and has no such external data 13:04:41 <Alberth> goal monitoring should not take much cpu time :) 13:04:43 <dihedral> the bot has from a programming point of view way more methods for input 13:05:03 <Alberth> but as said, I am not against it 13:06:09 <Alberth> I just expect the number of uses to be less than 10 or so :p 13:06:19 <dihedral> sadly that is the case, yes :-P 13:11:40 <LordAro> dbg: [misc] [utf8] unknown string command character 9 13:11:42 <LordAro> dbg: [misc] [utf8] unknown string command character 13 13:11:50 <LordAro> how to solve these errors? 13:12:14 <Eddi|zuHause> those are CR/LF? 13:12:54 <LordAro> maybe, unknown 13:12:58 <Eddi|zuHause> no, 9 is tab, i think 13:13:06 <Alberth> true 13:13:16 <Alberth> and 13 is CR 13:14:04 * Alberth ponders about the meaning of "string command" 13:14:26 <LordAro> so, basically, how to strip these characters from a string/char? 13:14:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: the special characters like "gender", "plural", "colour" etc., i believe 13:15:01 <Alberth> move everything after it one position to the left 13:15:11 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I was afraid of that :p 13:15:54 <Alberth> let's use some valid ASCII for encoding non-ASCII things 13:16:32 <Belugas> helloo 13:17:50 <Alberth> oolleh 13:18:04 <LordAro> hoeoll 13:18:21 <Eddi|zuHause> oo hell 13:18:30 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: that bad? :p 13:19:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i might have mild fever or something 13:19:14 <Eddi|zuHause> can't concentrate on anything 13:19:34 <Alberth> it's the summer, you have to stop working 13:20:37 <Alberth> LordAro: skip any character c that is !IsPrintable(c) || c != '\n' ? 13:20:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the weather isn't really summer-like either 13:22:10 <Alberth> LordAro: although you could also expand 9 to spaces. 13:23:01 <LordAro> Alberth: where would i put that in the code? 13:23:20 <Alberth> during or after file reading 13:23:22 <dihedral> LordAro, what are you up to? 13:23:34 <LordAro> (newgrf) readme viewer :) 13:23:42 <dihedral> ah :-) 13:24:06 <LordAro> it's getting close (?) to completion 13:24:22 <LordAro> well, it prints (some of) the readme anyway :) 13:25:12 <Alberth> you know that 80% of the result takes 20% of the effort, right? :p 13:25:33 <LordAro> shh! don't dent my good mood :) 13:25:42 <Alberth> (although you are further than that, I think) 13:26:14 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01954/mattb24072011_1954726a.gif <-- you may like that 13:27:07 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> "Two guys are counterfeiting 150⬠bills. one guy says to the other: 'hey, go to that ice cream shop over there and buy an ice cream for 1⬠with this bill.' the other guy comes back, first guy asks: 'what did you get in return?' second guy says: 'two 70⬠bills and a 9⬠coin'" 13:29:52 <LordAro> :) 13:33:07 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f708d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:33:17 <LordAro> quak 13:34:24 <frosch123> moin 13:34:35 <dihedral> :-) 13:34:42 <LordAro> Alberth: using IsPrintable(), how would i strip the CRs and the TABs? 13:35:04 <planetmaker> hi, you nice, early green pont creature :-) 13:36:09 <frosch123> afoon planetmaker 13:37:04 <Alberth> LordAro: given the output, I'd say CR and TAB are neither IsPrintable(), nor equal to '\n'. Thus if you skip characters as proposed, they will be dropped automagically. 13:37:13 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:38:30 <planetmaker> but I guess a frosch is "never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to" ;-) 13:38:47 <LordAro> Alberth: so a for loop on the char? (thats the only way i can think of doing it) 13:39:16 <Alberth> would be fine, I think 13:39:48 <Alberth> planetmaker: he varies his arrival time to leave us guessing :p 13:39:56 * Alberth waves hi to frosch123 :) 13:40:14 <LordAro> planetmaker: a frosch comes from Valinor? 13:41:16 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 13:43:00 <frosch123> hai albert :) 13:43:18 <frosch123> planetmaker: i did not feel like starting the next task at work 13:43:38 <frosch123> it is easier to start annoying stuff in the morning when i am still somewhat sleepy 13:44:47 <fjb> Moin 13:44:53 <planetmaker> :-) 13:45:03 <planetmaker> yeah, it spoils otherwise the whole rest of the day. I fully understand 13:45:30 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [] 13:45:45 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 13:46:51 <planetmaker> moin fjb 13:54:34 <LordAro> while i'm still here: "dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer" <-- how long is the destination buffer? 13:56:16 <planetmaker> wild guess: 1024. But... might be different. 14:07:51 <Alberth> much shorter 14:08:34 <Alberth> it is just a warning that your version string is too long to fit in a network packet. 14:09:21 <LordAro> version string? 14:09:30 <LordAro> where did that come from? 14:09:33 <LordAro> :) 14:09:39 <Alberth> ever noticed the title bar of the openttd window? 14:09:57 <Pikka> it's made of string 14:10:14 <LordAro> i would have thought it would have coped with a hg build + 'M' 14:10:40 <Alberth> yes, and that is too long :) 14:11:08 <LordAro> odd 14:11:24 <LordAro> i'll remember to qrefresh before building then 14:13:10 <LordAro> still not sure how to use IsPrintable()... how would i get rid of the characters in the char? 14:13:30 <Alberth> it's not a problem, just a warning that your version string is not sent completely over the network. That does not matter, since you are not going to do any MP gaming with the patched version anyway :) 14:13:56 <Alberth> what does the file loading routine look like today? 14:14:44 <Alberth> basically by not copying the 'wrong' characters 14:44:56 *** Vadtec_ [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has joined #openttd 14:46:55 *** TinoDid|znc [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has joined #openttd 14:48:35 *** mikegrb_ [~michael@thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 14:48:48 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> graviton.oftc.net quits: ThaAmazonous, Vadtec, Born_Acorn, DabuYu, PierreW, @Belugas, mikegrb, TinoDidriksen 14:48:48 *** Vadtec_ is now known as Vadtec 14:48:48 *** TinoDid|znc is now known as TinoDidriksen 14:49:08 <LordAro> back shortly 14:49:13 *** LordAro [56951e1e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 14:49:32 *** Netsplit over, joins: DabuYu 14:50:09 *** Netsplit over, joins: Born_Acorn, @Belugas, ThaAmazonous, PierreW 14:54:11 <Pikka> good morning Belugas 14:54:16 <Pikka> and Corn Baron 14:55:47 <Belugas> hello Pikka :) hope life is good for you down under! 14:55:57 <Pikka> splendid :) 14:56:19 <Belugas> funny though... we say down under. how do you describe "us" ? 14:57:23 <Pikka> we don't 14:57:26 <planetmaker> Belugas, "down under" of course ;-) http://flourish.org/upsidedownmap/mcarthur-large.jpg 14:57:28 <Pikka> at least not in that manner 14:58:56 <Belugas> lol at planetmaker :D 14:59:14 <Belugas> Pikka, but you do have a designation, right? 14:59:34 <Pikka> the northern hemisphere? 15:00:07 * planetmaker still has such map at home; I got it somewhere in macquarie... 15:00:31 <Belugas> right. makes sens. thanks :) 15:26:56 *** Zephyris [~Zephyris_@client-7-200.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk] has joined #openttd 15:32:34 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 15:47:15 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-248-19.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:52:02 *** seandasheep [~seandashe@85.211.204.194] has joined #openttd 15:58:12 <Pikka> wut 15:58:26 <Pikka> I can't remember how to get an aircraft to have a default cargo other than passengers 16:00:22 <Pikka> and can't see where the difference is in my ancient NFO 16:02:54 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VehicleRefitting <-- Pikka 16:02:58 <planetmaker> might be helpful :-) 16:04:06 <planetmaker> so probably in the refit masks 16:04:17 <Pikka> well 16:04:27 <Pikka> the refit masks are the same in the one that works as the one that doesn't work 16:05:00 <Pikka> the one that doesn't work has "all but passengers" as refittable cargos, but still "passengers" as default 16:05:06 <Rubidium> nfo version differs? 16:05:38 <Pikka> they're in the same grf 16:08:58 <Pikka> hmm 16:09:15 <Pikka> the aircraft that doesn't work has an "extended" vehicle ID (4D) 16:09:25 <Pikka> if I change it to (10), it works 16:09:50 <planetmaker> so it doesn't inherit any properties from a default aircraft 16:09:54 <Pikka> yse 16:10:01 <Pikka> but I can't see any properties that I'm missing setting 16:10:07 <planetmaker> thus you set some property different from the default... 16:10:21 <planetmaker> well :-) I can't possibly guess ;-) 16:10:33 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e090e25.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:11:38 <Pikka> well it can't be that I'm setting it different from the default, because all I'm doing to make it work is changing the vehicle IDs, not changing any properties 16:12:09 <Pikka> also, according to that table at least, a situation where the default cargo for an aircraft is not a fittable cargo should be impossible to engineer in GRF 16:12:37 <Pikka> I'll cook up a test grf and see if the bug is reproducable in a simpler file, and file a bug report if it is so. 16:12:56 <planetmaker> Pikka, yes. But if one vehicle has ID xy < max_default_aircraftID, it'll have all properties defined 16:13:02 <planetmaker> while the other one won't. 16:13:11 <Pikka> yes 16:13:19 <Pikka> but there's no "default cargo" property for aircraft 16:13:19 <planetmaker> thus an unset property could make a difference 16:13:36 <Pikka> and I don't have any unset properties afaics 16:13:37 <planetmaker> uhm... for the default aircraft there is 16:13:39 <Hirundo> Original aircraft have CT_INVALID as default cargo, so they use the first refittable 16:14:11 <Pikka> planetmaker; okay, there's no default cargo property in the NFO spec for aircraft 16:14:25 <Pikka> if OTTD has one, you've forgotten to tell the rest of us about it :) 16:14:27 <Hirundo> I guess aircraft with ID > max_original are zeroed upon allocation, so they default to passengers (which have ID 0) 16:14:48 <Pikka> sounds plausible Hirundo 16:15:40 <Hirundo> Whether this is a bug in the spec or in OpenTTD I leave open for debate :) 16:15:57 * planetmaker considers it a documentation lapse at most 16:16:21 <planetmaker> default vehicles will have values set. Each vehicle might have a different one set. So... 16:16:42 <planetmaker> and new vehicles have everything zeroed 16:16:48 <planetmaker> (and not only vehicles) 16:16:54 <Pikka> okaty 16:16:57 <Pikka> *okay 16:17:12 <Pikka> so how do I set this property in NFO then? 16:17:41 <Pikka> if it is merely a case of missing documentation... 16:19:02 <Hirundo> I can find no trace of it in the documentation 16:19:11 <Hirundo> s/documentation/openttd source 16:19:16 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/images/grfwiki/1/12/CargoMagic.dot.png 16:19:24 <Hirundo> and not in the documentation also, so I guess it's not there 16:19:33 <Pikka> yes planetmaker, been there done that 16:19:40 <planetmaker> :-) 16:19:44 <Pikka> this chart assumes that aircraft have a default cargo of "first refittable" 16:19:53 <Pikka> which for extended IDs, they don't 16:20:34 <Hirundo> Pikka: Are you able to compile ottd on your computer? 16:20:52 <Hirundo> or alternatively, run win32 binaries? 16:21:00 <Pikka> I can run win32 binaries 16:21:01 <planetmaker> Pikka, and you say, your aircraft don't have that? 16:21:54 <Pikka> apparently not, planetmaker, since with an ID > default they are showing "passengers" (cargo 0) as the default cargo, even though that's not an option in the refit mask 16:22:18 <Pikka> but with an ID < 0 they are showing "coal" (cargo 1), which is an option 16:22:36 <Pikka> *ID <= default, not 0 :P 16:22:50 <Pikka> you know what I meant 16:24:16 <Hirundo> Pikka: I'll try to send you a patched binary, could you test with that? 16:24:27 <Pikka> can do 16:24:28 *** Zephyris [~Zephyris_@client-7-200.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:41 *** Zephyris [~Zephyris_@client-7-200.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk] has joined #openttd 16:29:21 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.86.77] has joined #openttd 16:29:30 <Hirundo> Pikka: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6292352/openttd-aircraft-cargo-patch.zip 16:29:35 <Hirundo> <afk for dinner 16:34:32 *** Zephyris [~Zephyris_@client-7-200.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk] has quit [Quit: Bye] 16:34:33 <Pikka> it doesn't run very happy.. lots of errors about AI :) but yes, that works, the aircraft now carries coal by default 16:38:32 <planetmaker> as long as it'll have a pikka running happy ;-) 16:41:10 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:41:13 <Pikka> (that said, a default other than first available would be nice... if you felt like exposing that property to NFO, planetmaker... ;)) 16:42:42 <planetmaker> I definitely agree with "that would be nice" :-) 16:42:59 <planetmaker> any suggestion how that should be exposed, though? 16:43:13 <planetmaker> a new property? 16:44:23 <planetmaker> though what would one do, if that specified cargo is not available? Again take the "first available"? 16:44:32 <planetmaker> or would that property be a list? Or...? 16:47:03 <planetmaker> maybe a list of three CTT entries. 16:48:04 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.86.77] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 16:48:54 <frosch123> planetmaker: if any, make it consistent with other vehicles 16:49:04 <frosch123> and yes, looks like a bug in ottd 16:49:36 <planetmaker> frosch123, but other vehicles have the same issue of only having 'first refitable'. Or do I miss something? 16:50:45 <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=812365#p812365 16:50:52 <frosch123> should probably put it on the wiki 16:51:06 <planetmaker> :-) 16:53:16 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:53:22 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/aircraftdefaultcargo.diff <- Hirundo: did you do the same? 16:55:32 <frosch123> planetmaker: btw. the last time we discussed that topic, andy wanted that the cargo defining grf defines the default cargo, or so :p 16:56:05 <planetmaker> that doesn't make sense 16:56:35 <planetmaker> because supder-duper-truck A could well want oil as default cargo while super-giant-duper-truck B would want COAL 16:57:19 <planetmaker> at least as vehicle grf author I'd not understand at all why the industry grf would define default cargos ;-) 16:57:20 <frosch123> well, it started with refittability 16:57:49 * Sevalecan is a naughty boy. 16:57:55 * Sevalecan disabled train depot speed limits ;) 16:58:31 <frosch123> Sevalecan: if you upload a diff to the forums, please name it "better depot vehicle speed" 16:58:44 <frosch123> or something similar. but please include "better" :) 16:59:25 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Juo] 17:00:05 <Sevalecan> hehe 17:00:25 <frosch123> do you know sirkoz? 17:01:53 <Sevalecan> I do not 17:04:11 <frosch123> he did several things in the past to disable certain "limitations" of the gameplay. and usually he includes some "better" :) 17:04:35 *** Guest3705 is now known as LordAro 17:04:55 <LordAro> right, where was i? 17:05:25 <Sevalecan> hah, nice. 17:05:56 <LordAro> oh yes, patch: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/373/ <-- Alberth 17:08:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:08:30 *** uni4dfx [~uni4dfx@89-212-176-193.dynamic.t-2.net] has joined #openttd 17:09:10 <uni4dfx> Hi guys, can someone guide me through in creating a new town name grf? 17:12:30 <Alberth> someone is not here atm, but we may be able to 17:12:37 <andythenorth> hola 17:12:41 <andythenorth> aloha 17:12:43 <andythenorth> etc 17:12:44 <Alberth> hi andy 17:12:54 * andythenorth ponders stupid questions 17:12:56 <Alberth> LordAro: and it does not crash? 17:13:51 <LordAro> no, although that version freezes because i removed free(readme_char) as i didn't really know where to put it 17:14:35 <Alberth> uni4dfx: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/townnames 17:15:05 <LordAro> actually, i think it does crash (because of that) but it freezes on writing crash.sav (no idea why) 17:15:54 <Alberth> readme_char? is not mentioned in that patch 17:16:13 <uni4dfx> Alberth right, so the way i understand this is: i have to create a town list in NML and then somehow compile it into a grf? 17:16:23 <LordAro> or whatever, i can't remember exactly, and i'm too lazy to look :) 17:16:38 <Alberth> uni4dfx: basically yes :) 17:17:08 <uni4dfx> Alberth is there a sample file? I tried to find one but no luck. 17:17:17 *** krinn [~krinn@27.69.87.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 17:17:29 <krinn> hi 17:17:58 <krinn> AITile.GetComplementSlope() is suppose to return what ? Can only get 65535 as answer 17:18:52 <Alberth> uni4dfx: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtowns/repository/entry/dtnames.nml seems to be one of the simpler ones 17:19:09 <uni4dfx> Alberth perfect, thanks 17:19:33 <Alberth> uni4dfx: select a sub-project, click 'repository', and browse for an NML file :) 17:20:27 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:20:42 <Alberth> krinn: doxygen comment says: The complement of a slope. This means that all corners that weren't raised, are raised, and visa versa. 17:20:49 <uni4dfx> Alberth On the website? 17:21:18 <Alberth> uni4dfx: yes, although you can also pull the repository, and browse on your local disk 17:22:21 <Alberth> krinn: http://noai.openttd.org/docs/trunk/classAITile.html#3b7e14f7f94e97c6c59f2fd7be9aaf1c 17:23:21 <Alberth> uni4dfx: as for making a grf, download and install NML, and run your nml file through the program. 17:24:00 <uni4dfx> Alberth alright sounds straight-forward enough 17:24:11 <Alberth> uni4dfx: if you publish the grf, please use a open source license, and also publish the source 17:25:02 <Alberth> uni4dfx: if you want a repo at the openttdcoop.org site (just like the many other town name grfs), your license must be GPL2 17:25:13 <krinn> thx alberth, i know the doc, just the implementation keep failing 17:25:28 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host152-94-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:25:29 <krinn> as the complement return is always 65535 17:25:41 <Wolf01> hello 17:25:42 <Pikka> there are no stupid questions, andy, only stupid people who ask questions. :) 17:25:50 <uni4dfx> Alberth yeah no problem, i wasn't planning on keeping it to myself :) 17:26:04 <Alberth> krinn: and that is the complement of the tile you query? 17:26:10 <Alberth> hello Wolf01 17:26:26 <krinn> depend, tried on some tiles, not flat one of course :p 17:26:30 *** Sevalecan [~Sevalecan@66-227-145-102.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:41 <Alberth> krinn: flat ones should also work :p 17:27:00 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 17:27:39 <krinn> says you have tile with S up others down, i would just expect answer like NWE from it 17:27:50 <planetmaker> Alberth: uni4dfx: basically any open source license works on the DevZone 17:27:58 <planetmaker> We just don't accept closed-source projects 17:28:28 <planetmaker> http://blog.openttdcoop.org/2011/07/16/copyright-and-licenses-permission-to-what-actually/ <-- I'd not have a problem with any of the licenses I discussed there ;-) 17:28:56 <planetmaker> and there are more, if desired. Though yes, I'd for the sake of simplicity advocate CC-BY or GPL v2+ 17:29:16 <Alberth> krinn: if ((slope & ~SLOPE_ELEVATED) != 0) return SLOPE_INVALID; <-- looks like you get SLOPE_INVALID 17:29:32 <frosch123> yeah, the slope may not be steep 17:29:51 <krinn> yep 65535 looks a good value to return SLOPE_INVALID 17:30:12 <krinn> what does ~ mean ? 17:30:23 <Alberth> it is, in fact, its value is 0xFFFF :) 17:30:32 <krinn> :) 17:30:35 <uni4dfx> OK, does 5000 town names sound excessive? 17:30:35 <Alberth> ~ all bits inverted 17:30:44 <planetmaker> uni4dfx: not at all 17:30:56 <planetmaker> 2000 might be needed by one single game 17:31:05 <uni4dfx> it's literally every town name in the country lol 17:31:08 <Alberth> uni4dfx: you need about 3500 max 17:31:14 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:31:20 <planetmaker> :-) Ok, even more 17:31:57 <planetmaker> uni4dfx: one can, of course, also or additionally or alternatively supply somewhat random town names in the style of your language 17:32:04 <planetmaker> I consider that quite fun :-) 17:32:19 <krinn> basically this is just slope & 0 so ? i suppose SLOPE_ELEVATED is 1111 (as NWSE raised) 17:32:34 <uni4dfx> planetmaker yeah, but it might be better to do that as a separate project 17:32:36 <planetmaker> those town names are then composed of name parts which you supply and you define the rules by which they're composed 17:32:53 <planetmaker> uni4dfx: not separate, if it's the same language. But possibly in a later version 17:33:05 <planetmaker> one single town name newgrf can supply several alternative town name sets 17:33:17 <uni4dfx> ok, but i'll start with the actual names first 17:33:24 <planetmaker> i.e. the GermanTownNames supply 6 townname sets :-) 17:33:27 <Alberth> krinn: slope & ~SLOPE_ELEVATED becomes non-zero if you have a steep slope 17:33:40 <uni4dfx> so what does the number in this statement represent: text("name1", 1) 17:33:49 <planetmaker> it's a probability 17:33:57 <Alberth> planetmaker: I checked the german town names, but it was too complicated to link here :) 17:34:00 <krinn> doh, so all my tests were done with steep slope maybe 17:34:02 <planetmaker> relative to the other numbers used along other town names 17:34:16 <planetmaker> Alberth: yes, I'd not have them linked either :-) 17:34:30 <planetmaker> I'd have linked DutchTowns, too :-) 17:34:40 <Alberth> uni4dfx: http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/nml-language.html#block-town_names 17:34:58 <uni4dfx> Alberth Yeah i'm looking at that 17:35:07 <Alberth> good :) 17:36:05 * Alberth ponders a better name than 'text' 17:36:48 <planetmaker> item? 17:36:50 <planetmaker> entry? 17:37:12 <Alberth> it's only a part 17:37:49 <Alberth> I was thinking 'name', but it does not sound right either 17:37:55 <krinn> SLOPE_ELEVATED - slope should gave me expected result no, even with steep slope ? 17:38:46 <Alberth> unlikely, subtracting bitmasks usually does not work as expected 17:38:47 <planetmaker> well... actually 'text' is not that wrong. Because it clearly indicates it's a text item 17:38:52 <planetmaker> opposed to a name block 17:39:30 <krinn> well, not the result itself, but its nibble is trustable 17:41:44 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop_] 17:45:34 <LordAro> Alberth? did you take a look at the patch? 17:45:52 <Alberth> I was just about to do that 17:46:00 <LordAro> :) 17:46:09 <LordAro> don't let me stop you 17:51:40 <krinn> ok : i have add a check on tile with isHalftileSlope + IsSteepSlope -> for slope 2 i get false false 65535 17:52:19 <krinn> GetComplementSlope looks bork (but i have openttd 1.0.4 here) 17:52:46 <planetmaker> uhm... why do you use such outdated version? 17:53:30 <uni4dfx> what should i put in as grfid? 17:53:45 <krinn> i'm at work, that computer must stay stable as long as possible, so execpt security i don't update 17:54:09 <planetmaker> uni4dfx: two or three letters for your initials. Last (4th) letter: index into your overall newgrfs already produced 17:54:09 <krinn> but this was doing same with 1.1.1 at home 17:54:11 <planetmaker> which would be 0 17:54:27 <planetmaker> overall it needs to be of course 4 letters exactly 17:54:29 <krinn> just now i'm sure my tests weren't failing because of steep or halftile slope tests 17:55:45 <krinn> lol wait i think i found the problem :) 18:02:18 <Hirundo> frosch123: Yes, my patch was the same, except for a slightly different wording of the comment 18:06:15 <krinn> nope doesn't work 18:06:38 <krinn> what i don't get is if you invert bits for SLOPE_ELEVATED, you will then just get 0 18:06:46 <Rubidium> what tile number are you trying? 18:07:05 <krinn> you can invert bit to mask "slope", but not SLOPE_ELEVATED as this one should be NWSE (so 1111) 18:07:25 <krinn> a random at start screen, must be center tile 18:07:43 <krinn> SLOPE_ELEVATED should be 1111 inverting that = 0000 = 0 18:07:58 <krinn> and 0 & 0 = 0 + 1 & 0 = 0 -> always returning 0 so 18:08:28 <Rubidium> center as in GetMapSize() / 2 ? 18:08:33 *** Lord_Aro [56951e1e@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:08:51 *** LordAro is now known as Guest3860 18:08:51 *** Lord_Aro is now known as LordAro 18:09:00 *** LordAro [56951e1e@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [] 18:09:04 *** LordAro [56951e1e@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:09:10 <krinn> 30594 -> 33402 18:09:25 <krinn> from to (decimal) 30594 -> 33402 18:11:10 <Rubidium> the regression test at least shows CompletementSlope does not always return -1 / 65535 18:11:14 <Rubidium> @base 10 16 30594 18:11:14 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 7782 18:11:20 <Rubidium> @base 10 16 33402 18:11:20 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 827A 18:11:50 <Rubidium> so not obviously a map edge :( 18:12:19 <krinn> nope told you i pickup main start screen (because i don't want to run everywhere on map to see my tests) 18:13:25 <krinn> so what ? slopeX & 0 = 0 no way to get complement slope from that 18:14:10 <Rubidium> the slope complement code looks okay based on the regression test, so the question is whether something might be wrong in your code 18:15:13 <Wolf01> sloped-something or step slopes? 18:15:38 <Rubidium> so can you show us some actual bits of code that go wrong? 18:15:54 <krinn> local slope=AITile.GetSlope(tile); 18:15:54 <krinn> local compSlope=AITile.GetComplementSlope(slope); 18:17:06 <krinn> hard to make an error, i have just add 18:17:19 <Rubidium> and how's tile set? 18:17:25 <krinn> it's a tile 18:17:30 <krinn> grab from an AITileList 18:18:05 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 18:18:23 <krinn> wait i look if i can package it to send you my tests 18:18:35 <Rubidium> what kind of architecture does your computer run? 18:18:35 <andythenorth> tum te tum te tum 18:18:39 <andythenorth> what to do next 18:18:41 <krinn> gentoo 18:18:45 <krinn> 32bits 18:20:19 <uni4dfx> Alberth ok how's this http://pastebin.com/LZtKu2tR 18:20:29 <Rubidium> neither is its architecture; powerpc, arm and x86 are 18:20:34 <krinn> x86 18:21:19 <krinn> little endian :) 18:21:24 <Rubidium> so no endianness blaming :( 18:22:33 <Rubidium> did you compile OpenTTD yourself? I guess you did since it's Gentoo. If so, try "make regression" 18:23:41 <krinn> going to grab 1.1.1 to see (but it was also failing @ home with it) 18:24:30 <krinn> is ELEVATED_SLOPE = 254 ? 18:25:18 <frosch123> it's 15 18:25:32 <krinn> yep sorry 15 18:25:40 <krinn> so inverting bit for 15 = 0 18:25:46 <krinn> and anything & 0 = 0 18:25:59 <krinn> better check the test alberth shown, it will only gave 0 18:26:02 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop_] 18:26:06 <frosch123> no, inverting bits of 15 is 0xfffffff0 18:26:09 <krinn> meanwhile i'll grab 1.1.1 18:26:19 <krinn> ah 18:26:21 <krinn> ok 18:35:07 <uni4dfx> planetmaker could you look at the file and tell me how many stupid mistakes i've made? 18:35:22 *** SmatZ [~smatz@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:36:07 * Rubidium wonders whether planetmaker actually reads that 18:36:28 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:36:35 <Rubidium> or said differently: he might pretty well ping timeout any time soon 18:37:33 *** Osai [~Osai@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:33 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:33 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:38 *** tneo [~tneo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:38 *** DJNekkid [~djnekkid@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:38 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:39 *** avdg [~avdg@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:39 *** V453000 [~V453000@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:39 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:39 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium is clairvoyant!! :p 18:38:26 <Alberth> uni4dfx: looks ok at first sight, what does nmlc think of it? 18:38:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the coop server has quite a bad uptime, it seems :p 18:38:36 <frosch123> #coop free zone? 18:38:48 <uni4dfx> Alberth haven't installed it yet 18:40:07 <krinn> it work with 1.1.2rc1 18:42:21 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 18:42:46 <Rubidium> uni4dfx: besides the grfid not being 4 long and english.lng missing it seems to at least compile okay 18:46:09 <krinn> erf found it, was using old version of script, and newer one i'm working on when using r1.1.2 18:46:31 <krinn> work on both now 18:47:19 <Alberth> I would expect that, tiles and slopes have not changed in ages :) 18:54:31 <uni4dfx> Rubidium what's supposed to be in english.lng ? 18:55:47 <krinn> Alberth, yep, was working on copy, installing rc1.1.2 made me lnk to good one 18:58:17 <Alberth> uni4dfx: something like http://www.fpaste.org/4dLm/ 18:59:22 *** Ammler- [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 18:59:23 *** SmatZ [~smatz@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 18:59:30 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 18:59:53 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 18:59:56 *** mode/#openttd [+o Terkhen] by ChanServ 19:00:03 <andythenorth> que tal? 19:00:47 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:00:53 *** tneo [~tneo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:01:07 *** MorgyN [57c2cc1e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:01:22 *** Osai [~Osai@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:01:23 *** V453000 [~V453000@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:01:43 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:02:03 <MorgyN> Hiya, I'm getting regular short pauses (temporary freezes) in openttd 1.1.1 under windows 7 x64, is this a known issue? 19:02:23 *** avdg [~avdg@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:02:23 <Rubidium> lots of AIs? 19:02:37 <Rubidium> or rather, are there AIs running? 19:02:39 <MorgyN> happens with 32bit ottd and 64bit, and under compatibility mode (xp sp3) 19:02:48 <MorgyN> No, happens even on the menu 19:02:54 *** DJNekkid [~djnekkid@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:03:05 <MorgyN> (was attempting to connect to a multiplayer server, other people have no issue) 19:03:46 <MorgyN> hardware is a ati 6870, intel i7-940, 6gig ram. only apps running IE and Steam. 19:03:54 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:03:54 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 19:03:54 <Rubidium> you mean you were in the server list window? 19:04:09 <MorgyN> not even in the server list window. with the demo map playing 19:04:18 <MorgyN> happens seemingly everywhere 19:04:46 <Rubidium> was the music running? 19:04:49 <MorgyN> yes 19:04:59 <MorgyN> it never paused 19:05:43 <Rubidium> hmm, so it didn't happen when music changed :( 19:05:55 <Rubidium> (... didn't only happen ...) 19:06:22 <MorgyN> no it appears to work for 10-30 seconds, then pauses for 5-20 seconds and repeats that process 19:06:32 <MorgyN> is there cli options to disable sound? 19:07:02 <Rubidium> -s null -m null (both sound and music) 19:07:15 *** davis [~b@p4FED0D0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:07:25 <MorgyN> ok will try that 2seconds 19:08:18 <frosch123> also try -b 32bpp-optimized 19:09:05 <Rubidium> I have no clue what would cause the behaviour you describe. Problem is that as far as I know it works for many many others, which means it has to do with something specific to your computer. The real question to that is: "what?", but that's sadly enough only something you can figure out. Maybe it's the antivirus interfering or something? 19:09:10 <MorgyN> No change with disabling sound, will try your suggestion frosch123 19:09:25 <MorgyN> I have no antivirus =( 19:09:58 <LordAro> thats an _extremely_ bad idea... 19:10:04 <krinn> try in safe mode 19:10:40 <MorgyN> I've run without antivirus since msdos, i'm fine =) 19:11:11 <planetmaker> that's what she says ;-) 19:11:17 <MorgyN> Still freezing with -b 32bpp-optimized 19:11:19 <LordAro> since you have no antivirus, the problem is as likely caused by a virus 19:11:37 <LordAro> no other applications are showing similar symptoms? 19:11:42 <MorgyN> None 19:11:58 <MorgyN> And no, trust me when I say it's not a virus. 19:12:15 <MorgyN> I've had two virus infections in 30 years. 19:12:36 <Wolf01> how can you tell that if you can't check it? 19:12:38 <krinn> try safemode then, it will discard unwanted service & app 19:12:50 <MorgyN> I'll give safemode a try. 19:13:02 <planetmaker> any desktop manager / changing backgrounds? 19:13:06 <davis> what happens to be the problem? , sorry for cross-chatting 19:13:30 <Rubidium> unexplained temporary freezes of OpenTTD 19:13:31 <MorgyN> planetmaker: no, this is a raw gaming system, only things installed are games. 19:13:52 <MorgyN> (hence mibbit) 19:14:19 <MorgyN> brb with conclusion from safemode. 19:14:24 <planetmaker> MorgyN: yes. But like keyboard "drivers" etc... 19:14:26 <davis> goodluck 19:19:20 *** MorgyN [57c2cc1e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 19:20:55 *** Pikka [~Figgy@d58-111-88-82.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:23:04 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 19:23:46 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-157-100.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:27:00 *** MorgyN [57c2cc1e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:27:52 <MorgyN> It ran without freezing under safemode, but was unable to test networking... although i could have tried safemode with networking... hindsight 19:28:08 <davis> restart! :D 19:28:46 <MorgyN> downloading updated graphics drivers atm, but as far as I know openttd doesn't use any 3d features of the cards? 19:28:53 <Rubidium> so it's, likely video, driver related 19:28:57 <MorgyN> so i'd be suprised if thier 2d is odd 19:29:05 <MorgyN> but trying it to eliminate it 19:29:32 <Rubidium> given 2d isn't used that much it isn't tested much either 19:29:46 <Rubidium> they are even dumping stuff that worked perfectly before 19:29:56 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:31:24 <MorgyN> But surely all the devs are openttd players and use it as part of thier test suite =) 19:32:37 <Eddi|zuHause> "all the devs" likely have no win7 19:32:56 <Hirundo> I'm not sure that "all the devs" actually play much either 19:33:00 <MorgyN> For the windows drivers? 19:33:33 <davis> pretty certain that "most of the devs" are human 19:33:55 <Hirundo> they tend to pass turing tests :) 19:34:23 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:34:28 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 19:34:31 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 19:34:42 <Eddi|zuHause> have you actually met anyone who did an actual turing test? :) 19:35:00 <MorgyN> I wouldn't believe that of most of the devs I work with... 19:35:55 <krinn> check also your video health, under 2D game still in wndows 3D is in use and card is working higher than just in 2D 19:36:19 <krinn> look out at your gpu health for temp 19:36:20 <MorgyN> video previous is fine. I play tf2 competitively 19:36:27 <MorgyN> passes furmark fine 19:36:40 <MorgyN> even on "extreme" 19:37:27 <MorgyN> Still freezes, latest drivers. 19:37:39 <krinn> so must be some dirty service 19:37:59 <MorgyN> why would it affect openttd alone 19:38:22 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd is not like the other games. 19:38:39 <planetmaker> openttd actually uses stone-age graphics approach ;-) 19:38:43 <LordAro> openttd is special :) 19:38:51 <planetmaker> nothing 3D is needed nor used 19:39:09 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22690 /trunk/src/engine.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] Aircrafts defined with IDs above the default aircrafts always defaulted to passenger cargo. 19:39:12 <planetmaker> all the selling points of graphics card fail to be applicable to openttd's needs 19:39:17 <MorgyN> Right, so I'm asking. What service could affect it? 19:39:26 <davis> you guys kinda sound like parents on their atempt to teach their kids to play nice with the special kid 19:39:27 <davis> :3 19:39:48 <MorgyN> or rather 19:40:03 <MorgyN> what could a service impact that would cause openttd to stop responding for 15-20 seconds 19:40:42 <MorgyN> does it repeatedly poll the filesystem and blocks on it? 19:40:48 <MorgyN> network? 19:41:10 <krinn> windows decorations and stuff like that, any background service playing with network imo 19:44:12 <planetmaker> MorgyN: on startup OpenTTD can read quite a lot. Depending on your size of the applicable data folders for OpenTTD 19:44:28 *** Ammler- is now known as Ammler 19:44:36 <MorgyN> This is also during, startup seems to be fine.. I'm connected to a game 19:44:54 <MorgyN> still freezing, oh there we go.. disconnected (due to freeze) 19:46:06 <Rubidium> you can't say that video is fine when it works with tf2. It's like saying a car runs fine at full throttle, only it stalls repeatedly when (almost) idling 19:46:37 <Alberth> hmm, some CPU throttling? 19:47:11 <krinn> or multitask failure, did you run it windowed with (dunno name) the thing to check running programs 19:47:20 <krinn> and when it block look who eat cpu 19:47:42 <Alberth> Rubidium: if you only so the 1/4 mile, that's no problem :p 19:47:48 <Alberth> *do 19:48:27 <krinn> cars comparaison would better fit as running full speed, but not proof running backward is fine :p 19:50:57 <Alberth> LordAro: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/374/ I added remarks prefixed with ">>>" characters. I removed parts of the patch I had nothing useful to say about 19:51:27 <MorgyN> right ok, no high cpu from any other process 19:51:36 <MorgyN> cpu 98% idle even when running 19:52:41 <MorgyN> ok, anyone got a 2d performance test tool =) 19:53:07 <Alberth> other than openttd :p 19:53:25 <MorgyN> indeed. 19:53:48 <Alberth> but single player should then also fail 19:54:06 <MorgyN> it does 19:54:09 <MorgyN> the menu fails 19:54:13 <LordAro> Alberth: thanks! btw, with doxygen, what do things like \c and \a mean? 19:54:16 <MorgyN> I don't even need to be in a game =) 19:54:28 <MorgyN> (also doom II is fine =) ) 19:54:40 <Alberth> ah, it's not only the network, I missed that. Sorry 19:54:47 <MorgyN> ooh i know, i used to play 1.0.5 fine wonder if that still works 19:55:28 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:56:25 <Alberth> LordAro: http://www.stack.nl/~dimitri/doxygen/commands.html 19:57:31 <LordAro> thanks 19:58:23 <MorgyN> ok guys. 1.0.5 works fine 19:58:37 <LordAro> also btw, the GRF-> NEWGRF changes, plus the doxygen stuff (on unmodified functions) are separate patches, i just put them together to it would compile properly 19:59:06 <Alberth> LordAro: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=960200#p960200 :) 19:59:43 <Alberth> that's good, it just is not clear from the diff where it comes from 20:01:16 <LordAro> true, but it's easier than posting the patches directory 20:01:34 <MorgyN> 1.1.0 is fine 20:01:39 <LordAro> shall i make comments to your comments here? 20:03:23 <MorgyN> So can anyone suggest a reason why 1.1.0 works fine on my system but 1.1.1 does not? 20:04:05 <Rubidium> `svn diff svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/1.1.0 svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/1.1.1` ? 20:04:46 <LordAro> heh, i get smileys for that :) 20:06:03 <Alberth> LordAro: tomorrow please 20:06:23 <LordAro> very well :) i shall think of answers :) 20:06:37 <Alberth> ok :) 20:06:39 <Alberth> good night 20:06:48 <LordAro> good night Alberth 20:08:05 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:09:08 <Rubidium> MorgyN: the only thing I can say is that it might be a negative side effect of a bugfix, but there isn't anything obvious that comes to mind 20:09:32 <Rubidium> MorgyN: so I hope you're able to compile and are willing to figure out which revision caused it 20:15:41 <MorgyN> attaching tracing tools to it atm, I havent compiled anything for windows for at least 4 years. I've noticed a few other people mention it in the forums but I guess that was unresolved. 20:19:19 <Eddi|zuHause> like i said previously, none of the devs have a suitible test environment to reproduce the issue 20:20:56 <Rubidium> yeah, the virtualbox videodriver works fine 20:21:23 <Rubidium> and my network is too slow to try a xenserver running remotely 20:25:02 *** fjunike [~fjunike@p4FD22B8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:28:15 <MorgyN> Right, while it's freezing it's constantly polling HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\NetBT\Linkage in the registry 20:28:51 <MorgyN> where does openttd save it's favourited servers? 20:28:58 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.73.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:29:40 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.73.65] has joined #openttd 20:29:43 <Rubidium> somewhere in openttd.cfg 20:30:21 <MorgyN> ok, but is that in your profile on windows? as i'm running different versions in different directories (from zips) but they keep the favourited servers 20:30:44 <Rubidium> it's in my documents 20:30:56 <MorgyN> aha thanks 20:30:58 <Rubidium> but it's read once when loading the game and written once when closing 20:31:08 <MorgyN> lets try zapping that and see if it's a dodgy setting 20:31:46 <Rubidium> is OpenTTD running from a network share? 20:33:04 <MorgyN> No, local disk 20:33:06 <MorgyN> and bam 20:33:07 <MorgyN> it's fine 20:33:42 <MorgyN> going to restore the old config and try and find the troublesome entry 20:35:54 <MorgyN> restore the config, problem back... 20:36:34 <fjunike> OTTD IS runnig fro a network share :) 20:36:57 <fjunike> from 20:37:15 <MorgyN> is there a comment style to the config? 20:37:52 <MorgyN> ie a # or // to comment out a line, save me creating backups? 20:39:55 <MorgyN> Right, as suspected found it. 20:40:07 <MorgyN> Unresolvable entry in the favourited servers 20:40:19 <MorgyN> remove the entry, everything works perfectly. 20:40:33 <Rubidium> # or ; 20:41:04 <Rubidium> MorgyN: but it ought not to be doing anything to the server list until you open the server window 20:41:35 <MorgyN> I can only offer what I observed. It was doing it during the menu without clicking multiplayer 20:41:55 <Rubidium> very odd 20:42:07 <MorgyN> (and constantly caused pauses while playing) 20:42:21 <MorgyN> removed that one entry from openttd.cfg and it's gone 20:42:36 <Rubidium> what did the entry look like? 20:42:59 <__ln__> http://my.opera.com/portalnews/blog/2011/07/26/a-life-like-flying-robotic-bird 20:43:14 <MorgyN> http://pastebin.com/aMsEY9Fb 20:44:31 * Rubidium remains flabbergasted; all name resolution is, as far as I can see done in a thread as to not to disturb/influence/pause the application when resolution of the dns to ip takes (lots) of time 20:45:25 <Rubidium> ah well, just file a bug report with the information 20:46:56 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: The Third Tiberium War - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 20:48:24 <fjunike> Flying Robotic Bird powerd by festo *like* :) 20:50:58 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:56:07 <MorgyN> Ok that registration confirmation email is taking a while... 20:56:29 <glx> check the spambox 20:56:50 <MorgyN> Have done 20:56:51 <fjunike> im waiting for that email since 2 days :( 20:58:38 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:00:12 <MorgyN> OK, could someone with a working registration open a bug for me.. if you tell me the feilds i'll pastebin the entries for you to c&p 21:00:23 <MorgyN> *fields. 21:06:37 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:06:57 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 21:07:57 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 21:08:12 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 21:08:15 <Wolf01> 'night all 21:08:19 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host152-94-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:09:03 <krinn> is there a rules write somewhere about effect on neighbors tile when raising/lowering a tile? 21:10:09 <Terkhen> good night 21:10:13 <LordAro> MorgyN: i'm bored, i'll do it 21:10:17 <LordAro> good night Terkhen 21:10:45 <MorgyN> LordAro: Thanks. What's the fields? (paste bin em if you can) 21:12:41 <LordAro> http://pastebin.com/ghpP3TTj 21:17:49 <MorgyN> LordAro: http://pastebin.com/MtVmRjpD 21:18:53 <MorgyN> hopefully sufficient 21:19:58 <MorgyN> LordAro: could you also post in this thread for these guys to check thier favourited servers? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=55129 21:21:46 <LordAro> done, and done :) 21:24:58 <MorgyN> Thank you =) 21:25:00 <planetmaker> good night 21:25:05 <MorgyN> now i'm off to go play.. have fun <3 21:25:20 *** MorgyN [57c2cc1e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:27:02 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC42E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 21:30:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6B4E8.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 21:31:21 <krinn> good night all 21:31:28 *** krinn [~krinn@27.69.87.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:32:45 *** fjunike [~fjunike@p4FD22B8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 21:34:47 <LordAro> night all 21:35:10 *** LordAro [56951e1e@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:37:33 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6AC39.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:38:32 *** Firzen [~Neon@dslb-094-219-009-117.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 21:47:33 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:50:40 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:51:12 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 21:52:45 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 22:00:21 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:13 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-248-19.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:06:59 *** Chris_Booth_ [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:11:39 <frosch123> night 22:11:41 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f708d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:12 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:12:27 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 22:13:15 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330]] 22:14:30 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:14:38 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: goodbye] 22:15:29 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:15:42 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:21:53 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 22:25:57 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-157-100.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:28:38 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:29:20 <Eddi|zuHause> man, the austrian railways before WWI are an even worse mixture than the german railways 22:38:47 <MNIM> that's odd 22:39:08 <MNIM> considering germany before WW1 wasn't a single country, while austria was. 22:39:30 <__ln__> must be the kangaroos 22:39:49 <MNIM> wrong country, silly. 22:51:17 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C00D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:06 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0e719.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 22:59:15 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop_] 23:00:02 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:15 <uni4dfx> what does this mean 23:09:15 <uni4dfx> Language file \"%s\" does not contain a ##grflangid pragma 23:09:35 <uni4dfx> i'm getting this error when i try to compile the grf 23:12:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it should probably mention a filename 23:12:43 <uni4dfx> i've just put ##grflangid 00 at the start and it works now 23:12:51 <uni4dfx> weird thing 23:13:43 <Eddi|zuHause> find a list of language IDs here: (GRFv7 section) http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action4#language_IDs 23:14:56 <uni4dfx> ok, american is fine 23:15:08 <uni4dfx> so where do i submit my new town names grf? 23:21:14 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:27:55 <Eddi|zuHause> bananas.openttd.org 23:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> but you might also want to get some feedback from tt-forums (graphics development section) 23:40:01 *** Guest3860 [56951e1e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 23:45:58 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 23:55:42 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 23:57:48 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ]