Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:05:44 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 00:10:42 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:17:28 *** kieran491 [~k_k@c211-28-220-61.brasd3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #openttd [] 00:19:51 *** ar3k [~ident@ebr71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 00:19:51 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 00:21:26 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@122-59-202-3.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:27:02 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ech76.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:44:23 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-205-226.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 00:48:42 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-210-250.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:23:55 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-041-081.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 01:25:38 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:26:13 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:31:52 *** douknoukem [~KEM@78.166.118.29] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 01:42:36 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@122-59-202-3.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #openttd 02:11:34 *** KingJ [~KingJ-OFT@95.154.197.17] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:26:32 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-247-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:29:14 *** KingJ [~KingJ-OFT@95.154.197.17] has joined #openttd 02:30:49 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@122-59-202-3.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:31:28 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-205-226.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:01:49 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:07:27 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:e4eb:849:ff97:63df] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:10:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7298D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:10:33 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7298D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:16:02 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:29 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 04:22:58 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 04:47:29 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7298D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B732F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:00:52 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:01:53 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 05:01:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 05:01:56 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 05:02:41 *** pikka [~yaaic@101.118.230.118] has joined #openttd 05:02:52 <pikka> oops 05:49:14 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B732F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:28 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B732F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:58:32 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:00:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:12:49 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 06:13:23 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e090e25.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:19:23 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 06:31:00 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 06:35:22 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:36:15 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 06:38:31 <pikka> foiled by foil! 06:38:52 <pikka> hello andy and other such 06:52:16 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:52:43 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:53:15 <planetmaker> moin 06:59:30 <pikka> good morning planetmaker 06:59:42 <pikka> and goodbye, for now! 07:02:08 <planetmaker> :-) sleep well mr bird 07:02:48 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:08:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:11:02 *** George|2 is now known as George 07:16:33 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:19:43 <pikka> hopefully not, planetmaker, I still have 4 hours of work left. :) 07:32:08 <planetmaker> :-D Indeed, then better not :-) 07:33:42 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:09 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:43:13 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:50:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:51:04 <andythenorth> morgen 07:51:18 <planetmaker> morning, andythenorth & Alberth 07:51:18 <andythenorth> I want multi-stop docks so much, I started a sock puppet: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=961672#p961672 08:01:38 <planetmaker> uhm... don't start sock puppets, andythenorth 08:02:01 <andythenorth> yeah - good point :P 08:03:56 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-041-081.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 08:19:48 <planetmaker> andythenorth, mind that it's a feature-request for FISH, not for OpenTTD :-P 08:19:59 <andythenorth> nah not really :) 08:20:04 <andythenorth> I asked for it to be moved 08:20:26 <andythenorth> he's asking for multi-stop docks 08:26:56 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:32:40 <pikka> new(sea)ports 08:34:07 *** fjunike [~fjunike@p4FD27D32.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:36:48 <planetmaker> same thing, different name, old desire :-P 08:38:34 <pikka> apparently the av8 thread needs to get back to talking about trains.... 08:38:43 <planetmaker> :-D 08:39:14 <fjunike> hi. "local num_of_groups = group_list.Count();" crashs with clas method is non-static. 08:40:39 <fjunike> how can i solve it? 08:40:46 <planetmaker> fjunike, if you've got a bug in an official OpenTTD version, it's strongly recommended to use the official bug tracker 08:40:54 <planetmaker> Otherwise: WAY too little information here 08:41:24 <planetmaker> (well, also for a bug report it's WAY too little information) 08:41:46 <fjunike> i got no account i try to make one but never got the confimation Email :( 08:42:05 <planetmaker> did you check spam bin etc? 08:42:14 <fjunike> ever day ;) 08:42:22 <fjunike> +y 08:42:26 * planetmaker does never check that :-P 08:42:34 <fjunike> gg 08:43:20 <Terkhen> good morning 08:45:15 <planetmaker> in any case, fjunike: with the amount of information you provide, I doubt anyone will ever be able to help you 08:46:40 <fjunike> i vorgot to tell you the group_list is a list of AIGroupList and i just wont to know haw many groups did the AI own 08:48:34 <planetmaker> you know... no one here knows your problem... I strongly suggest you take a read at http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html 08:49:12 <fjunike> i also try "local num_of_groups = AIGroupList.Count();" 08:49:18 <planetmaker> and possibly make a forum posting about it 08:49:35 <planetmaker> on my part, all things you say are still without any context at all. 08:49:50 <fjunike> the problem? the AI crash at this line 08:49:57 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 08:50:20 <planetmaker> see. That's the first piece of _crucial_ information: it's a crash in *an* AI - not in OpenTTD 08:50:26 <planetmaker> Next piece: which AI? 08:50:31 <planetmaker> If custom: what's your code? 08:50:32 <planetmaker> etc pp. 08:50:44 <planetmaker> it's not our task to think of what you might have possibly done where. 08:50:55 <planetmaker> It's your task to provide ALL necessary information to understand your problem 08:50:57 <pikka> fjunike: you need to start with "I'm writing an AI" and go from there 08:51:59 <pikka> also it just got dark in here. darn battery saver. 08:52:01 <planetmaker> we also have the NoAI forum at tt-forums.net for a reason ;-) 08:52:32 <planetmaker> also more people might read it there than (currently at this time) in IRC 08:56:07 <pikka> I'm off again, later chaps 08:57:51 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@122-59-202-3.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #openttd 08:57:53 <planetmaker> enjoy :-) 09:01:36 <fjunike> i found my mistake by myself. i forgot the () behind AIGroupList #( 09:07:24 <dihedral> good morning 09:28:35 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebr71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 09:33:37 *** ar3k [~ident@ebr71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:40:33 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:45:38 *** pikka [~yaaic@101.118.230.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:56:58 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebr71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:57:15 *** ar3k [~ident@ebr71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 09:57:17 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 10:04:31 *** avaratar [~59beeeb9@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 10:05:25 <avaratar> Ñе за?... 10:05:52 *** avaratar [~59beeeb9@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [] 10:09:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm leaning towards "no." 10:13:20 <fjunike> is there a function to remove double values in a list? 10:18:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:18:59 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has left #openttd [] 10:18:59 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 10:19:02 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 10:19:38 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:25:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:25:53 <Alberth> do you have a set? 10:27:14 <fjunike> set? Just helper.nut but i wrote a function by myselfe to do the remove 10:28:36 *** ar3k [~ident@ebr71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 10:30:38 <planetmaker> Alberth, it's NoAI code 10:31:35 <Alberth> yeah, but I don't know squirrel, so I ask whether it has a set as data structure, as that is the standard way of not having doubles 10:35:47 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebr71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:41:10 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 10:50:47 *** ar3k [~ident@ebr71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:51:04 *** ar3k [~ident@ebr71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 10:51:07 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 10:55:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A79A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:17:37 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-003-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 11:23:15 *** Chinatown [~5288f316@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:24:44 *** Chinatown [~5288f316@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [] 11:40:48 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:52:14 <fjunike> its done :) 11:52:43 *** douknoukem [~KEM@78.166.118.29] has joined #openttd 12:01:47 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c4f8:6144:bd1a:cd5d] has joined #openttd 12:01:51 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:04:24 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@122-59-202-3.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:15:36 <Eddi|zuHause> good appetite then :p 12:46:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 12:50:11 *** fjunike [~fjunike@p4FD27D32.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 12:54:07 <Zuu> Oh fjuike just left. Anyway, IIRC you can't add duplicates to AIList. 12:54:15 <Zuu> (on the keys) 12:54:30 <Zuu> Several keys can have the same value of course, but no key duplicates. 12:55:01 <Zuu> When you get eg. an AITownLIst, then the keys are the towns. 12:57:17 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 12:57:36 <planetmaker> should I direct him to you when he returns? ;-) 12:57:58 <planetmaker> he has somewhat the habit of not mentioning any context to his mutterings 12:58:21 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-097-227-192.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:58:34 <flitz> hi 12:59:28 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:32 <flitz> I would like to use some function that is declared static, should I make it non-static and public und some headerfile or should I duplicate the code ? 13:00:25 <flitz> the function is CopyHeadSpecificThings(...) from autoreplace, I don't think there should be any problems if it was globally accessible 13:04:29 <planetmaker> don't duplicate code. Make it non-static 13:05:46 <planetmaker> you might consider to make a (new) public accessor, if you don't need everything of the current private function 13:05:49 <flitz> I thought so too. Just wasn't sure whether there is any specific reason for the function being static. Like capsulation or something 13:06:19 <planetmaker> static allows inlining by the compiler, thus might give some speed advantages. IIRC. Not entirely sure 13:07:25 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:10:15 <flitz> ah okay, I just know that it is also a scope thing in C because there are no namespaces or classes to encapsulate them in 13:11:14 <planetmaker> well, maybe I err ;-) 13:14:13 *** insulfrog [~insulfrog@host-78-149-69-118.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 13:14:50 *** Guest4456 is now known as AD 13:15:06 <insulfrog> hi all 13:19:04 <Eddi|zuHause> making things static makes the job for the linker way easier. 13:28:45 *** insulfrog [~insulfrog@host-78-149-69-118.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby] 13:29:51 *** Pikka [~Figgy@d58-111-88-82.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 13:35:32 <flitz> because it doesn't have to look around as much for calls to that function ? 13:40:48 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm43.epsilon82.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 13:46:06 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.153.209.129] has joined #openttd 13:48:51 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebr71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:49:10 *** ar3k [~ident@ebr71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 13:49:13 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 14:03:04 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:04:23 *** KingJ [~KingJ-OFT@95.154.197.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:06:20 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 14:08:48 <Zuu> planetmaker: indeed, he colud post more code, though I managed to figure out the most probable cause of his error before I figured it out in the log. :-) 14:10:22 <Zuu> In Squirrel you can assign types to variables and use those to refer to the types if you want. 14:13:19 <Pikka> scuddles be quiet 14:16:10 *** KingJ [~KingJ-OFT@95.154.197.17] has joined #openttd 14:17:59 *** MrSieb [~01Mr@chello062178128065.5.13.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:23 <Scuddles> AAAAAAAA 14:18:42 <orudge> BBBBBBBB 14:19:11 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:27:52 *** douknoukem [~KEM@78.166.118.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:20 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:17 *** jpx_ [~Joonas@a91-156-244-28.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:50:57 *** douknoukem [~KEM@78.166.118.29] has joined #openttd 14:55:30 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 15:29:48 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-248-107.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:40:17 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:57:53 *** Pikka [~Figgy@d58-111-88-82.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:59:10 *** douknoukem [~KEM@78.166.118.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:59 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 16:09:09 *** V453000 [~V453000@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: You must construct additional PYLONS to get me back!] 16:09:09 *** avdg [~avdg@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: bye - http://dev.openttdcoop.org - never quits] 16:09:09 *** DJNekkid [~djnekkid@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: bye - http://www.openttdcoop.org] 16:09:23 *** tneo [~tneo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: bye - http://www.openttdcoop.org] 16:10:18 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Ehm.. 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1 changes by Wowanxm 17:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne 17:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx 17:45:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv 17:45:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: latvian - 165 changes by dzhins 17:47:33 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:57:14 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm43.epsilon82.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [] 18:02:26 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 18:07:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:14:14 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 18:16:31 *** Leif__ [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 18:18:48 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:19:36 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host178-232-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:20:04 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:20:27 <Wolf01> hello 18:22:57 *** Leif__ is now known as Zuu 18:23:23 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:46:02 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d82394f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:46:23 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:38 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:55:30 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:02:29 <dihedral> http://www.break.com/index/mariachi-band-serenades-a-beluga-whale-2094039 19:02:31 <dihedral> ^^ 19:05:57 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-097-227-192.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: flitz] 19:17:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 19:24:50 *** andythenorth [~pdq@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:29:03 *** douknoukem [~KEM@78.166.118.29] has joined #openttd 19:35:07 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-239-99.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:39:25 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 19:47:06 *** krinn [~krinn@197.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 19:47:14 <krinn> hi 19:49:13 <krinn> i've check and AITile.IsBuildable return false when i check a water tile, my questions are then, if an industry is on a water tile (platform), will AITile.IsWater still answer true or this time false? (same question but with water depot) 19:50:17 <Zuu> I don't know for sure and would recommend making a test. 19:50:29 <andythenorth> beware of coast tiles 19:50:43 <krinn> coast tiles aren't a problem they answer to IsBuildable() 19:51:04 <planetmaker> IndustryTiles can have a waterclass. But whether the IsWater check actually returns true... needs a source code check 19:51:30 <Alberth> water is not water when it is buildable ? 19:51:57 <krinn> Alberth, that's my question yes, if it is, we could assume IsWater=true == IsBuildable=true 19:51:57 <Zuu> There is also a AITile.IsWater IIRC 19:52:11 <planetmaker> krinn: the docs in the source say only when it's a water tile. An industry tile is not a water tile 19:52:11 <frosch123> IsBuildable returns false for both stations and industries 19:52:48 <frosch123> it also returns false for houses, and removable objects 19:52:55 <krinn> i know that frosch123 but it's an answer for non water tile 19:52:58 <planetmaker> IsWaterTile: return ::IsTileType(tile, MP_WATER) && !::IsCoast(tile); 19:53:08 <planetmaker> thus only clear water 19:53:23 <krinn> ok IsWater=false when a water depot in on the file, right ? 19:53:32 <krinn> /s/file/tile 19:53:37 <frosch123> oh, sorry 19:54:07 <frosch123> IsWarterTile return true only for water tiles, locks, ship depots, canals 19:54:20 <frosch123> it returns false for industries or objects build on water 19:54:25 <krinn> ah bad 19:54:44 <krinn> so i need to check actually IsWater==true if canals/depot... are their 19:54:53 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:55:04 <frosch123> the problem with these functions is that it is wery hard to tell what they should actually do :) 19:55:20 <planetmaker> :-) 19:55:25 <krinn> we lack a IsWaterIsBuildable :) 19:55:27 <planetmaker> every implementation is wrong (or right) 19:55:37 <planetmaker> krinn: that's what AI libraries are for ;-) 19:55:45 <planetmaker> not everything needs to be in the API 19:55:57 <Zuu> Indeed, we don't want a too fat API. 19:55:59 <frosch123> also we always seem to forget to update api functions when adding something new :p 19:56:07 <frosch123> like objects 19:56:17 <krinn> Zuu, you have such function ? 19:56:25 <Zuu> Yea, where is the NoAI NewObject API? 19:56:35 <Zuu> krinn: No, I haven't worked with water. 19:56:51 <Zuu> There is a library with buyo functions. Take a look there. 19:57:14 <Zuu> MinchinWeb's MetaLibrary: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=53698 19:58:05 <Zuu> at least from what I remember when I read its in-game bananas description. 19:58:56 <krinn> lol requires superlib 19:59:28 <krinn> i'll have a look to see if he handle that or make my own function 20:00:25 <Zuu> On the other hand, regarding NewObjects, AIs can't buy land at the moment so perhaps NewObjects could be explained as a more pretty way of buying land and thus a reason why AIs can't use it. :-) 20:01:44 <Zuu> krinn: Not sure if the MetaLibrary requires SuperLib or if it is just the AI. 20:01:47 <frosch123> Zuu: there are objects which can be just removed like half road pieces by just building over them 20:02:00 <frosch123> maybe such objects should report true for IsBuildable 20:02:15 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:02:22 <Zuu> frosch123: NewObject objects? 20:02:23 <frosch123> however, if they are on water, maybe they shall report IsWater instead :p 20:02:26 <krinn> Zuu, seems not you're right, but he only add some kind of pathfinding in it, others functions are taken by your lib 20:02:28 <frosch123> Zuu: yes 20:02:44 <frosch123> though argueable there are none released :p 20:02:53 <Zuu> krinn: Yep, probably because SuperLib 7 didn't have pathfinding yet ;-) 20:03:27 <krinn> gonna check AIWater to see possible failure to build on water 20:03:53 <Zuu> Nowdays SuperLib have functions to: Bulid road from A to B, build road station in town X, build road station for industry Y. So one could write a very short and simple AI with it. 20:04:52 <krinn> hmmm, like a tutorialAI :) 20:05:53 <Zuu> Yep, for that one I included pathfinding in SuperLib. 20:06:24 <Zuu> frosch123: Those on land, are they overbuildable by any kind of infrastructure or just road? 20:06:56 <krinn> planetmaker, AIList.Valuate convert true/false to value right ? 20:07:21 <planetmaker> krinn: I have to look up all those things, too ;-) 20:07:34 <Zuu> krinn: It convert true to 1 and false to 0. 20:07:42 <Zuu> As written in the docs/wiki. 20:07:57 <krinn> that's what i was reminding yep, thx guys 20:08:32 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.153.209.129] has joined #openttd 20:15:21 <krinn> i'm good at digging things that doesn't exist :) 20:19:10 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds] 20:19:57 <frosch123> Zuu: they are like rocky land 20:20:06 <frosch123> they are just more expensive to clear 20:20:12 <frosch123> but you do not need to bulldoze them 20:20:27 <frosch123> however, for objects these things can also exist on water 20:22:31 <Zuu> So they are like what we already got as farmland and rocky terrain. In principle they would be buildable then. 20:22:50 <Zuu> For farmland there IIRC exist a function IsFarmLand or similar. 20:23:06 <Zuu> Which some AIs use in their path-finders to avoid farmland. 20:24:51 <Zuu> In general, the API do not have cost functions, instead it rely on the accounting and test mode for cost queries. Maybe it might be motivated to have a CostToClear function as that one I guess would not cost a DoCommand which I guess a test-build would do even if it is in test-mode. 20:26:55 <Zuu> Oh, the API have access to some base costs nowdays. 20:27:29 <krinn> it's new i think, the GetBuildCost one ? 20:27:31 <Zuu> these base costs are supported: http://noai.openttd.org/api/1.1.1/classAITile.html#133f5d7f78a0b1aae62c2bdbde9c0056 20:27:42 <Zuu> krinn: Yes afaik 20:28:06 <krinn> but it's new to 1.1 i think 20:28:51 <frosch123> Zuu: it needs a test command 20:29:26 <frosch123> though cost estimation of ais would fail anyway for objects just like it does for ottd 20:29:50 <frosch123> if you clear multitile objects you have to pay the amount to clear the whole object 20:29:59 <Zuu> So, using clear-cost to avoid certain tiles would be very expansive to use in a pathfinder even if it moves into the API. 20:30:04 <frosch123> but you also have to pay it only once even when building over multiple tiles 20:34:01 <Zuu> So (continuing on my theory), if cost estimation at each tile would slow down pathfinding alot, AIs need some way to identify NewObjects using attributes rather than executing a DoCommand in test-mode. 20:34:11 <Zuu> Perhaps IsObject? 20:34:56 <Zuu> Or could there be any NewObject that makes building over it benefitical? 20:35:06 <krinn> NewObjects are what (sorry to disturb) some fancy objects newGRF can use and drop but still destroyable (like say a little statue or things like that)? 20:35:59 <krinn> like trees, buildable by anyone, but removable by anyone 20:36:45 <Zuu> But I guess at least the situation that a free to clear NewObject could happen. Thus if the AIs mark all Objects evil, then it will faulty take a longer distance around some tiles. 20:37:55 <Zuu> krinn: NewGRF spec: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Main_Page <-- see pages for "Objects" 20:39:05 <Zuu> Here's the NML spec of NewObjects: http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/objects.html 20:39:41 <frosch123> krinn: objects may be destroyable like rocky land, or like houses (i.e. not "Buildable" in ai terms). they may be on land, water or both 20:40:25 <frosch123> so a IsObject tile test is bad, as it is easy to miss the water test 20:40:40 <krinn> shit, if one makes lion statues as newObject, my ai won't be able to drop two of them in front of my HQ :) 20:40:58 <frosch123> the problem of all these IsXYZ functions is, that some tiles are just multiple things :) 20:41:11 <Zuu> frosch123: How about AITile.IsClear? Would return true only on tiles without trees, objects, stations etc. 20:41:38 <frosch123> water? 20:41:53 <Zuu> would be clear I guess 20:42:28 <Zuu> I guess HasTreeOnTile will never return true if the tile has something like a house or rock on it. 20:43:03 <krinn> a IsClearOfObject ? would answer to a tile not checking its status (land/water or anything): just answer got some object yes/no 20:43:03 <frosch123> Zuu: we had the same problem with trees on shore 20:43:51 <planetmaker> krinn: but... what about an object called "company owned land"? 20:44:00 <planetmaker> wouldn't you want it to return "free"? 20:44:00 <frosch123> they are reported as both shore and trees now 20:44:01 <Zuu> So shore-tiles have water according to IsWater? 20:44:14 <frosch123> but what to do with rail on a halftile foundations with water on the lower side? 20:44:27 <frosch123> it is a railtile, but even ships can travel on it 20:44:29 <krinn> planetmaker, no, if it's an object, return false 20:44:33 <frosch123> and bulldozing is really expensive 20:44:49 <planetmaker> which reminds me... now with adv. sprite layouts I should be able to much more easily fence that... 20:44:52 <frosch123> Zuu: no, shores do not count as water 20:45:01 <krinn> but the question is can we always remove the objects or not? 20:45:29 <frosch123> krinn: you cannot remove houses always either 20:45:38 <frosch123> it depends on the object 20:45:53 <frosch123> so, the api might actually hide the objects from the ais 20:46:00 <planetmaker> the "behave like fields" type is easily removed. Others not 20:46:03 <frosch123> and just report them as houses or farmland 20:46:07 <krinn> but doing so, ai will be blind against them 20:46:18 <Zuu> I see the problem with the diagonal rail tile that also has water. Though, I also see that the function to get transport type is formulated as HasTransportType rather than GetTransportType. 20:46:34 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-003-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 20:47:06 <planetmaker> Zuu: those tiles are not only a pain for AIs. It's also quite a nasty piece of code wrt drawing 20:47:13 <frosch123> Zuu: yeah, that is also needed for level crossings :) 20:49:42 <krinn> it's nasty to have bit 3+4 (irremovable+anything can remove) 20:49:54 <krinn> it's nasty to have bit 0+1 (irremovable+anything can remove) 20:50:08 <krinn> grr actualy it's 1+2 20:51:54 <krinn> shouldn't it just be clear for anyone can remove and set if irremovable? 20:53:09 <frosch123> it's always nice if the most used value is 0 20:53:49 <krinn> if i get it right: ai would then be force to do "lame" : raise tile corner to get the object clear, lower it = don't use buldozer but remove it 20:54:01 <krinn> with a x25 cost to raise the tile 20:54:17 <frosch123> what? 20:54:25 *** andythenorth [~pdq@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 20:54:32 <frosch123> i think you don't get it right :p 20:54:38 <krinn> a little note says : irremoable object can be remove but not with buldozer 20:54:54 <krinn> Object cannot be removed through normal dynamite, control must be held and the removal cost will be multiplied by 25 (this is the usual behaviour for most class A objects in TTDPatch). 20:55:02 <krinn> that's a part i don't get clear :) 20:55:07 <frosch123> krinn: that translates as "magic bulldozer" for ottd 20:55:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r22713 /trunk/src/ (17 files in 3 dirs): -Feature: [NewGRF] Per vehicle custom cargo ageing period. 20:55:12 <frosch123> and is not available for ais 20:55:27 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:55:28 <frosch123> there are also certain houses which are generally not removable for ais, but for humans 20:55:29 <planetmaker> krinn: magic bulldozer 20:55:42 <krinn> it's a cheat feature no ? 20:55:47 <planetmaker> yes 20:55:53 <frosch123> a human only cheat :p 20:56:04 <krinn> kinda strange to build a spec over a cheat 20:56:10 <planetmaker> why? 20:56:34 <frosch123> krinn: it just says that the cheat circumvents the restriction of the grf 20:56:45 <krinn> well, it's a cheat, who cares to have right to do things or not, it's a cheat, just remove it without taking care about a "can my cheat do that" status? 20:57:00 <frosch123> there is no flag "do not allow magic bulldozer" either 20:57:07 <Zuu> @commit 22713 above: even more complexity :) 20:57:07 <DorpsGek> Zuu: Invalid arguments for _commit. 20:57:17 <frosch123> krinn: that's exactly what it says, isn't it? 20:57:33 <krinn> it's also strange to says x25 to remove it, x25 chat? the human cheat, he just click and get more money who will cares about cost ? 20:57:35 <planetmaker> Zuu: quite so ;-) 20:57:57 <planetmaker> I guess it'll need NoAI accessors 20:58:10 <frosch123> krinn: the spec is shared with ttdpatch, that line does not apply to ottd 20:58:11 <planetmaker> it's targeted at differing local vs. long-distance coaches 20:58:13 <planetmaker> and similar 20:58:16 <frosch123> magic bulldozer is always free 20:58:32 <frosch123> ttdp has the weird assumption that cheats shall cost money, so you have to also use the money cheat :p 20:58:47 <planetmaker> :-) 20:58:48 <krinn> lol, strange concept 20:59:48 <krinn> and we endup with "cheat" bit in newGRF spec, weird 21:00:18 <frosch123> i still don't get whats wrong with explaining the effect of a cheat in a footnote 21:00:33 <frosch123> footnotes are for explaining additional stuff 21:01:06 <krinn> it's clearer now 21:01:18 <krinn> but i didn't expect to see a bit use for a cheat 21:01:43 <krinn> it's strange to have a spec to control a cheat, that by def is to bypass spec :) 21:02:05 <Zuu> krinn: Which flag are you talking about? The OBJ_FLAG_IRREMOVABLE flag? 21:02:22 <krinn> yes 21:02:29 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 21:02:41 <Zuu> I don't see how it specify how cheating should behaviour. 21:02:42 <krinn> note that i know 0 to newGRF, i just discover the page you sent me 21:02:55 <Zuu> All it says is that you can't remove the object. 21:03:14 <krinn> well if you look at bit 2 note, it says you can remove it, with extra x25 cost 21:03:20 <Zuu> The cheat exist to override it, in case you really want, but it is not intended that you should do that in normal gameplay. 21:03:58 <krinn> and your not surprise to see a spec saying : it's ok to cheat to remove that object but with extra cost of x25 ? 21:04:45 <Zuu> Not really. I mean the cheat to remove "unremovables" have existed for ages. For those who don't take the challenge to play with the landscape and aronud the obstacles. 21:05:33 <krinn> i wasn't thinking the cheat "checks" for an agree to cheat 21:07:57 <Zuu> In TTDPatch there existed (and probably still do) a cheat to change rail type. As for what I remember, there was requests to make that cheat cost money. 21:08:13 <Zuu> The cheat changed railtype of all your rail at one go. 21:08:40 <Zuu> And thus saved you from rebuilding all rail (and building all signals one by one again) 21:09:13 <krinn> lol and they also check memory to see one isn't using an +X trainer to cheat :) 21:10:00 <Zuu> No idea what an +X trainer exactly is. 21:10:09 <krinn> a cheat program 21:10:58 <krinn> because like it is, it looks like, you are allow to cheat but it will cost you money ! But you are also allow to cheat to get money :p 21:13:13 <frosch123> [23:05] <krinn> i wasn't thinking the cheat "checks" for an agree to cheat <- please read again, the specs say exactly that it does _NOT_ ask for agreement 21:14:29 <frosch123> the bit says: disallow removal by anything but the cheat 21:15:42 <krinn> whaooo took me time: i see why they are two now :) 21:16:19 <krinn> bit 1 set = none can remove it, bit 2 set anyone could, bit 2 unset = only owner can remove ? 21:16:48 <krinn> must be why the two bits instead of just 1 21:17:32 <planetmaker> nice, one step closer now to CETS, michi_cc :-) 21:19:41 <Zuu> planetmaker: CETS? 21:19:46 <krinn> i don't know who/what is CETS even i suspect michi_cc is someone 21:20:06 <Zuu> michi_cc is for sure a person 21:20:15 <Zuu> I can assure you ;-) 21:20:22 <krinn> guessing newGRF specs authors 21:20:33 <planetmaker> Zuu: central european train set - a tentative name for a newgrf... 21:20:38 <planetmaker> look through devzone projects 21:20:56 <Zuu> okay 21:21:15 <planetmaker> with wagons the length of one tile (and not 1/2) 21:21:21 <krinn> better than google answer: Child Exploitation Tracking System :) 21:22:30 <planetmaker> Currently it's a NewGRF without sprites ;-) 21:22:44 <planetmaker> well... without sprites different than boxes ;-) 21:23:00 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:23:43 <krinn> i see trouble coming for ai author with that CETS 21:23:48 <__ln__> damn, i just figured out there's a direct flight connection to Leipzig/Halle from here, but it's unfortunately cargo only 21:24:05 <planetmaker> __ln__: just send a big parcel :-P 21:25:23 <krinn> a crate + live animal ? 21:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: DHL? 21:26:30 <Eddi|zuHause> DHL moved its distribution center for europe and africa from brussels to halle/leipzig 21:27:22 <Eddi|zuHause> so all DHL planes go to and from there 21:27:46 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: the airline was listed as "Imperial Air Cargo", not sure whom does it fly for. (the emperor?!?) 21:28:04 <__ln__> there's a TNT terminal here at least. 21:28:10 <Eddi|zuHause> they have two other such hubs, one for america and one for asia 21:29:26 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-248-107.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:29:55 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 21:32:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A2A1.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 21:33:19 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6A3FE.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:55:43 <planetmaker> good night 21:56:15 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.153.209.129] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 21:56:20 <krinn> gn 22:03:14 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:12 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc has this stealth-patching totally figured out :p 22:07:14 <Wolf01> 'night all 22:07:16 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host178-232-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:08:00 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 22:11:55 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: Red Alert 2 Online - http://mutants.sla-company.net/hoa/] 22:14:35 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 22:14:47 <frosch123> night 22:14:50 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0087f3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:31 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:19:29 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d82394f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 22:23:33 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:26:00 <Terkhen> good night 22:30:22 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-075-244-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:30:26 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:32:34 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:08 <Zuu> Wohoo! .Net 4 seems to have gone broken on my machine. :-) 22:48:02 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 22:48:57 <Zuu> At another computer .Net 3.5 break when I upgraded a program and when trying to resolve it using the methods that Microsoft suggest, my list of installed programs became empty. :-) 22:50:42 <Zuu> (microsoft solution to a corupt .Net is to uninstall all .Net versions all way down to .Net 1 and then re-installing them.) 22:51:04 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 22:51:56 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:19 <krinn> feel lucky, they didn't not ask you to reinstall windows :) 22:53:48 <Zuu> well, that was what I choosed to do rather than spending time on something I wasn't sure would solve the issue. 22:54:28 <krinn> i hope it's not an issue that came a lot 22:54:59 * Zuu hopes too 22:57:20 <krinn> zuu: trying to raise townrating, doc says i need to plants tree, and even might remove them before to have the place to re-plant behind 22:57:23 <krinn> this works? 22:57:35 <Zuu> Yes, see wiki 22:57:44 <Zuu> game mechanics 22:57:49 <krinn> that's what i see yeah 22:58:12 <krinn> i can just pickup a place and plant/remove/replants until i reach a valid TR so? 22:58:51 <Zuu> That feature/cheat has been around since the beginning, nothing revolutionary. 22:59:20 <krinn> i suppose everyone do like that so 22:59:26 <Zuu> The trick is to do it over a larger area that is within town influence 23:00:01 <Zuu> It's way cheaper than bribing the town :-) 23:00:28 <krinn> and we cannot bribe town sometimes 23:00:44 <Zuu> Anyway, I still have the chance to beat yesterdays night time. So I'm off to bed. 23:01:40 <krinn> good night 23:11:33 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:26:07 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A79A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:31 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@122-59-202-3.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #openttd 23:32:04 *** duckblaster1 [~duckblast@122-59-202-3.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #openttd 23:37:32 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@122-59-202-3.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds] 23:47:29 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-011-083.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 23:59:39 *** duckblaster1 [~duckblast@122-59-202-3.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]