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Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:26:31 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 07:40:13 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:40:48 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 07:40:51 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 07:42:18 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 07:50:59 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08fbf0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 07:51:40 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 07:53:22 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:53:41 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:09:43 <Terkhen> good morning 08:14:33 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08fbf0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 08:30:36 *** Progman [~progman@p57A196BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:32:40 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B72984.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:46:48 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:46:51 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:58:44 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08fbf0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:01:30 *** pjpe [~pjpe@173-230-161-25.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:01:55 *** peter1138 [~petern@lachesis.fuzzle.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:25:14 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-233-43.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 09:25:43 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-025-190.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 09:27:01 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 10:01:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:13:58 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 10:17:21 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:24:49 *** Progman [~progman@p57A196BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:31:57 *** TramOfDeath [1fb51918@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 10:32:08 <TramOfDeath> 0hai 10:32:41 <planetmaker> hello 10:33:57 <TramOfDeath> There's a glitch with OTTD where music won't loaded unless located in install/gm 10:34:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 10:34:17 <planetmaker> is thereà 10:34:26 <TramOfDeath> Particularly, SJA 10:34:28 <planetmaker> Music has always to be located somewhere in one of the gm folders 10:35:03 <TramOfDeath> It doesn't play if it's in conten~1/gm 10:35:29 <planetmaker> the folder name also would be content_download/gm 10:35:44 <planetmaker> but that's only where ingame download content should go 10:35:54 <TramOfDeath> I know full name, you got my point 10:36:09 <TramOfDeath> SJA is an ingame download after all 10:36:35 <TramOfDeath> SJ anthology 10:37:45 <TramOfDeath> I have a "portable omni-install" of OTTD 10:38:53 <Rubidium> might be that those 'portability' wrappers mess things up 10:40:03 <Rubidium> though I wonder why those portability installation things are needed; probably because "readme" doesn't entice to read or so 10:40:09 <planetmaker> whatever this 'portability' thingy is 10:41:24 <TramOfDeath> Not a portability wrapper. Just this: http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Portable-%22Omni-Install%22-of-Openttd#Tips 10:42:19 <TramOfDeath> erm, wrong one, remove #tips at end 10:42:20 <planetmaker> most likely it's an issue then with case of paths 10:43:12 <TramOfDeath> so it's install/content_downloads/gm 10:44:19 <TramOfDeath> not %documents%/openttd/content_downloads/gm 10:44:33 <planetmaker> ~/.openttd/content_download/gm is the default user dir compiled in our binaries for linux 10:44:45 <planetmaker> there's no "s" 10:44:56 <TramOfDeath> oh, no s... my bad 10:45:16 <planetmaker> in any case: I suggest to try one of our official binaries 10:45:43 <TramOfDeath> The installer USES official binaries 10:45:50 <Alberth> and reading the do-no-readme file may also help as it explains in detail how openttd looks for files 10:45:52 <TramOfDeath> omni-install* 10:46:26 <TramOfDeath> http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Portable-%22Omni-Install%22-of-Openttd - using official installer-less IP and official linux-generic 10:46:30 <planetmaker> the readme, though, tells that some/path/install/... is not where OpenTTD ever looks 10:47:22 <TramOfDeath> so it will not look for music in content downloads when portability is enforced by placing the CFG? 10:48:28 <TramOfDeath> in the manual, it is clear that portability is enforced by having openttd.cfg made in the install folder 10:48:53 <TramOfDeath> c:\openttd\openttd.cfg 10:49:51 <Alberth> I don't know, my Linux doesn't play the music, and I didn't bother to fix it 10:49:59 <planetmaker> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/tags/1.1.1/readme.txt#L256 10:50:13 <TramOfDeath> c:\openttd\content_download\gm music doesn't play even though being selectable 10:50:49 <TramOfDeath> but same music pack moved to c:\openttd\gm plays finely. 10:51:24 <planetmaker> and openttd.exe is where? 10:51:40 <TramOfDeath> c:\openttd\openttd.exe 10:52:58 <TramOfDeath> Read the wikihow manual first. 10:55:14 <Rubidium> I wonder where OpenTTD places the music when downloading it. As it extracts it, it might very well be needed that it's in a subdirectory of content_download/gm/ 10:56:08 <TramOfDeath> content_download/gm/pack_name 10:56:39 <Rubidium> and/or that it requires some metadata from the content download system to be there as well 10:56:57 <Rubidium> but then... *why* are you putting stuff that is NOT downloaded by OpenTTD in content_download? 10:58:22 <TramOfDeath> SJ anthology IS from content system 10:58:45 <TramOfDeath> Scott Joplin Anthology 10:59:35 <Rubidium> and OpenTTD downloaded it into that directory? 10:59:46 <Rubidium> or did you move the files yourself? 11:01:06 <TramOfDeath> OTTD downloaded it, it got extracted as content_download\gm\scott_joplin_anthology-2.0.0 11:02:31 <TramOfDeath> It was selectable but didn't play from there 11:04:34 <TramOfDeath> After I moved it to openttd\gm\scott_joplin_anthology-2.0.0, it plays just OK 11:05:12 <Ammler> bugs.openttd.org 11:07:25 <planetmaker> it works for me from ~/Documents/OpenTTD/content_download/gm ... 11:07:39 <Alberth> dbg: [grf] Checking ~/openttd/industry_building/bin/content_download/gm/openmsx-0.3.1/openmsx.obm for base music set 11:07:39 <Alberth> dbg: [grf] Adding OpenMSX (96) as base music set 11:07:57 <Alberth> it seems downloaded music ends up at the right place and gets found too 11:08:24 <Alberth> I cannot test whether it gets played 11:09:04 <planetmaker> found is needed as it can be selected 11:10:10 <TramOfDeath> yikes, registering in another place... 11:11:05 <TramOfDeath> just for one silly piece of p00p to be removed... 11:11:47 <TramOfDeath> I forgot my OTTD acc... :@ 11:14:40 *** TramOfDeath [1fb51918@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: yuck, I can't stand having to register in too many places, I always end up forgetting passwords!!!] 12:22:10 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:30c6:eb35:c48c:c3f6] has joined #openttd 12:22:13 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:39:39 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: goodbye] 12:39:55 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:40:00 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 12:40:14 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:53:43 *** Progman [~progman@p57A196BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:19:38 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 13:22:52 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:25:29 *** Maarten_ [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:10:52 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-233-43.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:12:01 *** lugo [bnc4free@oxygen.surgehost.net] has joined #openttd 14:25:21 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e090e25.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 14:48:24 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 14:54:52 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:02:02 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:15:14 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 15:19:17 *** mib_m4a6jn [bcc079a8@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 15:19:29 <mib_m4a6jn> hi 15:19:49 *** mib_m4a6jn [bcc079a8@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [] 15:20:07 <planetmaker> that was quick ;-) 15:26:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem when you have range-fight riders, you don't have any useful units to capture cities with... 16:07:31 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@195-240-99-235.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:30 *** aditsu [~aditsu@119247098106.ctinets.com] has joined #openttd 16:35:58 <aditsu> hi, there's a multiplayer game that I can't join anymore 16:36:17 <aditsu> it loads and shows the frozen map, then after a long time it says I joined and then immediately disconnects 16:36:30 <aditsu> what can I do about it? 16:37:14 <planetmaker> probably not much. That's the behaviour if the game is too "heavy" for a client to join 16:38:45 <aditsu> hm.. does the game run slower when a LOT of trains got stuck? or it doesn't affect it? 16:39:32 <michi_cc> If stuck means "waiting for free path", then yes, there is an effect. 16:40:37 <aditsu> I noticed that happening in some of the other companies earlier (when I could still join) 16:41:31 <aditsu> and it's a big map too 16:44:41 *** aditsu [~aditsu@119247098106.ctinets.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:48 <Rubidium> I guess it's his computer; it's even too slow to stay connected on IRC ;) 16:45:50 <planetmaker> of course the amount of vehicles and the map size are what makes a game eat much cpu 16:45:55 <planetmaker> oh, he's gone 16:51:08 *** aditsu [~aditsu@119247098106.ctinets.com] has joined #openttd 16:51:20 <aditsu> sorry I had a crash 16:53:02 <aditsu> I'm sure the game can run on my computer, it's just the time when it connects.. there should be something about that, perhaps a timeout setting... 16:53:06 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:57:09 <aditsu> or if the game was multithreaded 16:58:39 <planetmaker> upon connection to a server, you computer has to a) download the map and b) compute the game state from when the map download started to what it is now 16:58:59 <planetmaker> that might be too much in the time it has. 16:59:09 <planetmaker> there's a lag setting for clients which is server-side only 16:59:17 <planetmaker> which allows more or less lag for clients 16:59:30 <planetmaker> or a server can choose to pause until a client finished connecting 16:59:40 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:59:40 <planetmaker> but... both usually doesn't help much 16:59:52 <aditsu> that means I should contact the admin, but I can't without connecting to the game 17:00:05 <Rubidium> being able to run a game does not mean the game runs as fast as it ought to run 17:00:15 <planetmaker> also, yes 17:01:04 <planetmaker> do you have a rough guestimate on total(!) vehicle number and map size? 17:01:14 <Rubidium> it is't 0.05s slower per tick than normal you won't really notice it, but those seconds add up quickly 17:01:30 <aditsu> map size is 2048*2048, total vehicles... I don't really know 17:01:36 <planetmaker> 50ms / tick? 17:01:40 <aditsu> might be over 1000 17:01:41 <planetmaker> it's half speed :-P 17:02:01 <glx> 2048*2048 is usually too big for any computer :) 17:02:03 <planetmaker> well, that's already a lot, esp. on such big map 17:02:20 <planetmaker> so it's really your computer being too slow for this game in multiplayer mode 17:02:53 <aditsu> I wonder if any of the other players has a significantly faster computer, otherwise nobody can connect 17:02:54 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Juo] 17:03:07 <planetmaker> might as well be. 17:03:27 <planetmaker> Esp. the multi-core cpus usually perform worse than the lesser-core cpus as then the single cores are faster 17:03:55 <aditsu> depends on the cores 17:04:42 <aditsu> I got a Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8500 @ 3.16GHz 17:04:43 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-018-110.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:06:49 <planetmaker> it should get you a long way, but also that one has its limits 17:07:10 <planetmaker> esp. when there are many boats involved 17:10:26 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-005-234.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 17:12:20 <aditsu> I don't think there were any boats in that game.. anyway, I'm trying to contact the admin, he seems to have multiple games in parallel 17:18:42 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 17:21:32 *** Coke [~peter@h-135-45.a254.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:25:14 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7080.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:30:00 <frosch123> hmm, i guess ottd also plays a loud alert when there is a tornado warning for your region 17:30:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't reproduce that 17:31:46 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e090e25.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:32:44 <Rubidium> :D 17:40:04 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:45:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22734 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt unfinished/persian.txt): 17:45:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnau 17:45:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: persian - 13 changes by Peymanpn 17:45:42 <Ammler> !info 17:45:42 *** Ammler was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.] 17:46:00 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 17:46:07 <Ammler> sorry :-$ 17:50:41 *** CiprianI [~bisericae@109.99.23.30] has joined #openttd 17:51:11 <CiprianI> How to install 32bit graphic pack? 17:52:34 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host178-232-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:52:41 <Rubidium> nobody has, as of yet, made a reasonably finished 32bits graphics pack that works with standard OpenTTD 17:52:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:53:20 <Wolf01> hello 17:53:23 <Rubidium> there are some that require that you install some modified version of OpenTTD, but most I hear of that are requests for help to install that (which I can't really help with: see the 32bpp graphics forum for more details) 17:53:39 <Rubidium> Wolf01: evenly 17:54:22 <Wolf01> and you oddly forgot about my almost finished brickland 32bpp graphics pack 17:54:47 <Wolf01> ok, there are the terrain and tracks only but... 17:55:35 <planetmaker> last time I asked, I was told that the same 32bpp packs work also with trunk 17:56:30 <Rubidium> planetmaker: "finished" is the operative word there 17:56:45 <planetmaker> quite so. sadly so 17:56:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:09 <Alberth> planetmaker: you don't seem to be able to set hangar positions in newgrf, is that conclusion correct? 18:00:12 <planetmaker> Alberth: in current trunk? 18:00:22 <Alberth> yes 18:00:24 <planetmaker> one cannot, as they must be part of the statemachine knowledge 18:01:00 <Alberth> hmm, how does the game detect a click at a hangar tile then 18:01:20 <Rubidium> there's a list of tiles that's a hangar 18:01:24 <Alberth> the source does have a list of tile positions 18:01:28 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:02:00 <Alberth> Rubidium: exactly, which means a newgrf airport cannot move the hangar currently 18:03:00 <Alberth> (I think so, at least) 18:03:22 <Rubidium> sounds plausible 18:09:44 <supermop_> hah, tornado warning 18:09:53 *** aditsu [~aditsu@119247098106.ctinets.com] has left #openttd [] 18:11:11 <planetmaker> supermop_: xkcd? ;-) 18:11:22 <supermop_> yep 18:11:49 <planetmaker> :-) 18:14:27 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22735 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Fix [FS#4718]: triggering NOT_REACHED when playing with a NewGRF that supplies genders/cases for a language that you removed from your installation 18:15:24 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-005-234.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 18:19:37 *** CiprianI [~bisericae@109.99.23.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:31:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:34:11 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22736 /trunk/src/saveload/strings_sl.cpp: -Codechange: constify some numbers 18:36:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22737 /trunk/src/saveload/ (cheat_sl.cpp company_sl.cpp strings_sl.cpp): -Fix [FS#4717]: some corrupted savegames could crash OpenTTD instead of showing the "savegame corrupted" message 18:39:18 <supermop_> when I saw the earlier comment about ottd, I just assumed frosh was being insane, or that somehow there was actually a tornado there and he had confused the local warning system with his computer 18:39:41 <planetmaker> :-) 19:12:19 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:12:31 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 19:15:20 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:18:19 <andythenorth> evenink 19:19:34 <Alberth> hi 19:19:49 <Hyronymus> hello 19:20:27 <Alberth> lots of discussion in the dutch train set thread :) 19:22:25 *** pjpe [~pjpe@173.230.161.25] has joined #openttd 19:22:26 <planetmaker> hello Hyronymus 19:26:36 <Hyronymus> yes, discussion is going well 19:34:04 <KittenKoder> Variety is always good. 19:36:34 <Hyronymus> try that on your gf :P 19:36:49 * KittenKoder is not a lesbo 19:38:59 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 19:40:22 <Hyronymus> :o 19:49:49 <andythenorth> "omg it's a girl" :P 19:49:52 <andythenorth> you mean? 19:50:12 * KittenKoder gasps 19:50:24 <KittenKoder> How dare girls play video games! 19:50:30 <andythenorth> indeed 19:50:32 <andythenorth> or write code 19:50:37 <KittenKoder> Don't they know it's all boys stuff! 19:50:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-214-128.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:50:51 <KittenKoder> andythenorth, don't remind me, it's the reason I hate my mother. 19:51:46 <KittenKoder> If she hadn't been such a wench about my coding, I would have worked at MS. 19:52:46 <Hyronymus> and now you work at? 19:52:51 <Hyronymus> Google? Apple? 19:53:08 <KittenKoder> Freelance network person. 19:53:15 <Hyronymus> ah 19:53:42 <KittenKoder> But that's not the suck part. 19:54:03 <KittenKoder> The suck part is that I didn't get to learn enough early on to be big. 19:56:52 <KittenKoder> I am of the mind they make monorail suck on purpos4e. 19:57:53 <planetmaker> KittenKoder: then draw us a new default monorail (or maglev) ;-) 19:58:05 <planetmaker> Personally I could do with other default maglev tracks... 19:58:11 <KittenKoder> Not talking about the look. 19:58:13 <planetmaker> similar to what you suggest in the forums 19:58:18 <planetmaker> oh 19:58:56 <KittenKoder> I'm in Seattle, famous for the toy monorail ... eye candy from some expo. 19:58:59 <Alberth> perhaps they looked at the real world monorail specs? 19:59:06 <KittenKoder> ... and the more recent failed monorial system. 19:59:19 <KittenKoder> Alberth, that's my point. ;) 20:00:20 <KittenKoder> Modern monorail designers must just be designing these things to be fail on purpose. 20:00:20 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/sawmill.png <-- I just wondered why sawmills never show any of the lumber they produced like here... 20:01:40 <andythenorth> probably SF didn't want to draw it 20:01:41 <KittenKoder> LOL 20:01:47 <Alberth> oh, you are not talking about the OpenTTD monorail 20:02:22 <Alberth> planetmaker: very few industries do that 20:02:49 <planetmaker> Alberth: yes. I wonder why 20:03:01 <KittenKoder> I may have to make some sci-fi based monorials if and when I make the sci-fi maglevs. 20:03:02 <planetmaker> looks better this way IMHO 20:03:16 * planetmaker considers to just change the sawmill to what I just posted 20:03:25 <Alberth> KittenKoder: too obsessed with high-speed to be much bothered about reliability, I guess 20:03:31 * planetmaker would need to remember where the lumber is from 20:03:41 <andythenorth> planetmaker: some places in FIRS I've used both input + output cargos 20:03:45 <andythenorth> just looks better 20:03:50 * Alberth agrees 20:04:17 <andythenorth> that's ISR lumber 20:04:21 <KittenKoder> Alberth, probably. 20:04:25 <planetmaker> ok, thanks :-) 20:04:30 <andythenorth> drawn by mart3p IIRC 20:05:04 <Alberth> or perhaps 'speed' sells better than 'reliable' for the people that pay the bill :) 20:05:06 <planetmaker> yeah, then I'll find. It was already used in OpenGFX. I just didn't know anymore where I got it from back then... 20:06:20 <KittenKoder> Anyhow, FYI for those who might care, when I do make the sci-fi trainset, it won't be to include high speed earlier, but so players can have a science fictiony looking set, nor will I make 1,000 mph trains with 50,000 hp ... etc. 20:06:58 <Alberth> sounds good :) 20:07:12 <KittenKoder> Woohoo! Just got the 2cc Shinkansen in my current game ... those are so pretty. 20:09:01 <KittenKoder> Personally, I love how the maglev look and the whole "frictionless" concept, but I think they move too fast and there is not enough variety ... and the OGFX ones suck. >.< 20:10:17 <planetmaker> KittenKoder: make better ones. Honestly 20:10:30 <KittenKoder> I forgot the name of my favorite one ... appearance wise I mean, of the 2cc set. 20:10:58 <KittenKoder> planetmaker, I will, just want to play with my new tracks a bit first to find all the problems. 20:12:18 <KittenKoder> I should play a game with breakdowns turned off so I can just pick which trains I like. 20:14:30 <andythenorth> has anyone taught their editor to colour in nml? 20:15:35 <planetmaker> Terkhen did that 20:15:38 <KittenKoder> The c syntax coloring seems to work well enough for me. 20:16:24 <andythenorth> I'll try that 20:17:16 <KittenKoder> I like the platforms from NewStations ... the ones that show the little people. 20:17:45 <frosch123> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/documents <- has syntax highlighters for notepad++ and geany 20:18:02 <KittenKoder> The Industrial Renewel set is awesome to, but doesn't have all the cargo for FIRS. 20:18:26 <planetmaker> no station set has 20:18:31 <KittenKoder> I noticed. 20:18:39 <planetmaker> isr is open-source 20:18:49 <planetmaker> thus... can be picked up and updated 20:18:56 <KittenKoder> That's why I was going to try stations, but if NML doesn't support them yet, I hate clunking with ASM. 20:19:02 * andythenorth tries to figure out nml 20:19:19 <planetmaker> yeah... that's holding me back, too, KittenKoder ;-) 20:19:20 <KittenKoder> NML is nice. 20:19:49 <KittenKoder> Just all the bit counting makes my head hurt. >.< 20:20:01 <planetmaker> the bit counting in NML? 20:20:04 <planetmaker> or in nfo / asm? 20:20:15 <KittenKoder> NFO. 20:20:22 <planetmaker> :-) 20:20:27 <KittenKoder> Well, ASM is what I use to use. 20:20:31 <planetmaker> it's a matter of getting used to, though 20:20:35 <KittenKoder> A looooong time ago before there was c. 20:20:52 <KittenKoder> Looked at NFO and had flashbacks. 20:21:01 <Alberth> :) 20:21:09 <planetmaker> :-D 20:21:12 * andythenorth is 20% baffled by NML so far 20:21:18 <KittenKoder> Remembering the days of trying to get animated sprites in Apple IIe. 20:21:48 <KittenKoder> andythenorth, the documentation for NML is lacking, which is what baffled me. 20:21:55 <KittenKoder> They need more contributors. 20:21:56 <Alberth> without assembler? ugh 20:22:06 <andythenorth> mostly I think I just can't read ALL_CAPS 20:22:10 <KittenKoder> Yep, Alberth .... simple op codes. 20:22:19 * planetmaker should change the default config... clearing limit reached :-P 20:22:23 <planetmaker> I set it to 10 tiles 20:22:27 <andythenorth> ALL_CAPS is just rectangles to me 20:22:36 <KittenKoder> ALL_CAPS is standard coding syntax for constants. 20:22:55 <planetmaker> KittenKoder: what is missing? 20:22:57 <KittenKoder> Has been for decades to. 20:23:28 <andythenorth> so it seems :) 20:23:34 <KittenKoder> planetmaker, mostly examples and more in depth explanations. 20:23:53 <andythenorth> so everything in caps is a constant? 20:24:02 <KittenKoder> Typically, yes. 20:24:05 <planetmaker> well... examples are the existing projects ;-) 20:24:13 <planetmaker> andythenorth: should be, yes 20:24:18 <andythenorth> ok 20:24:20 <andythenorth> that helps 20:24:23 <KittenKoder> I saw those. ;) But they don't show everything yet. :p 20:24:32 <andythenorth> but constants that have parameters? 20:24:37 <andythenorth> I've never run across that before :O 20:24:42 <andythenorth> it's a new way of coding for me 20:24:46 <KittenKoder> I have been spoiled with Java .... Sun had a VERY comprehensive example set from the start. 20:24:57 <planetmaker> KittenKoder: well... always free to ask. And documentation patches are warmly welcome, too 20:25:19 <planetmaker> or elaborately commented example grfs. 20:25:24 <Alberth> andythenorth: no #define with parameters in a previous FIRS ? 20:25:24 <andythenorth> hmm 20:25:27 <KittenKoder> Constants are also "pointers" ... to functions, callbacks, etc. .... usually for low level ones when using a high level language like NML. 20:25:31 <andythenorth> Alberth: no 20:25:39 <andythenorth> all just strings 20:26:07 <planetmaker> andythenorth: you had already many #define THIS_IND_ID F0 20:26:09 <planetmaker> etc 20:26:10 <KittenKoder> planetmaker, if it will help, I can submit the source and stuff for my maglev track, that may be a good example for some things. 20:26:11 <planetmaker> a lot 20:26:35 <KittenKoder> I would just have to archive it. 20:26:37 <andythenorth> planetmaker: that's just defining the constant value though? 20:26:46 <planetmaker> well, yes? 20:27:03 <planetmaker> ah, you mean macros... 20:27:10 <planetmaker> well, there might be some. Not sure 20:27:11 <andythenorth> possibly 20:27:19 <andythenorth> this looks like a function call with params to me 20:27:19 <andythenorth> CHECK_INCOMPATIBLE (brewery, 56, CB_RESULT_IND_DISALLOW_UNSUITABLE, return CB_RESULT_IND_ALLOW_LOCATION) 20:27:23 <KittenKoder> There are some macros in NML. 20:27:25 <planetmaker> in NML for sure 20:27:43 <planetmaker> but what andy just quoted is a cpp macro which expands to NML ;-) 20:28:09 <planetmaker> KittenKoder: did you look at the (very few) examples in the example folder of NML? 20:28:38 <andythenorth> so macros take params? 20:28:49 <planetmaker> I think it has already a railtype example... but might be very new 20:28:52 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes, they can 20:29:10 <KittenKoder> planetmaker, when I am talking examples, I'm talking more like helpdoc explanations using some "real world" language, like for parameters. So one doesn't have to learn NFO first. ;) 20:29:13 <andythenorth> and this returns the ID for the arable farm? THIS_ID(arable_farm) 20:29:30 <andythenorth> equivalent to calling arable_farm.id() ? 20:29:38 <planetmaker> well, as said: amendments etc to the docs are welcome :-) 20:29:39 <KittenKoder> It's just a recommendation though ... not that I'm saying "NML help docs suck". 20:29:45 <planetmaker> It's not many people who write on it... 20:30:01 <planetmaker> and things are clear when one has done them a few times... 20:30:11 <planetmaker> so especially this outside view, help and amendments are welcome 20:30:43 <planetmaker> I guess there's at most two people who write in NML longer than myself ;-) 20:30:48 <KittenKoder> Help docs are pain to write. 20:30:55 <andythenorth> but this - THIS_ID(town_distance) - is equivalent to calling self.get_town_distance() 20:30:56 <andythenorth> ? 20:30:56 <planetmaker> they are :-P 20:31:01 <KittenKoder> I was never good at it, I even suck at commenting my source code. 20:31:29 * andythenorth is baffled :P 20:31:30 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it's a shorthand to make the identifier name unique by prepending it with THIS_ID. It's a macro defined in each industry 20:31:32 <Alberth> KittenKoder: the whole trouble with these technical documents is that the people writing them are too deep into the matter to be able to explain it clearly to a new user, they don't see what concepts are new, anymore 20:31:33 <planetmaker> at the very top 20:31:43 <andythenorth> oh so THIS_ID gives the context? 20:31:48 <planetmaker> kinda 20:31:49 <andythenorth> (scope) 20:31:55 <planetmaker> per-industry. Yes 20:31:59 <KittenKoder> Alberth, that's my problem to, putting it into more "real world" language is hard. 20:32:10 <planetmaker> look at the header of an arbitrary industry file. It's define there 20:32:50 <Alberth> KittenKoder: usually I drop down to concrete examples, like 'here I expect this and this to be explained' 20:33:13 <planetmaker> #define THIS_ID(...) industryname ## __VA_ARGS__ 20:33:21 <KittenKoder> I usually learn by the examples more than the docs myself. 20:33:24 <Alberth> but that needs a very careful study of the docs 20:33:48 <planetmaker> which then expands in later usages of THIS_ID(something) to industrynamesomething 20:33:53 <andythenorth> planetmaker: so this maps exactly to a varact 2 chain? http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/455/ 20:34:07 <andythenorth> working from the bottom up, last parameter is next check? 20:34:22 <planetmaker> you read the switch chains upwards, yes 20:34:26 <andythenorth> ok 20:34:32 <andythenorth> it starts to make sense 20:34:41 <planetmaker> switch = action2 basically 20:34:57 <planetmaker> whatever action2 you want, varaction, randomaction, normal action ;-) 20:34:59 <andythenorth> like nfo, the chance of 'just' getting it is minimal :P 20:35:23 <Rubidium> unless "it" refers to a headache 20:35:24 <planetmaker> any programming language with functions works that way... 20:35:38 <planetmaker> first declare, then use 20:35:53 <KittenKoder> Not any. ;) 20:35:57 <planetmaker> except those languages where it doesn't matter 20:36:02 <Alberth> :D 20:36:18 <andythenorth> except those where it doesn't matter :P 20:36:24 <planetmaker> any, every - all the same in my mothertongue ;-) 20:36:32 <KittenKoder> Python (technically scripting but it counts), Java, and PHP (again scripting but meh) you do not have to declare first. 20:36:53 <Rubidium> Java uses methods! ;) 20:36:55 <KittenKoder> I'm sure there are a few others. 20:37:22 <KittenKoder> Hmm .... yeah, it is different, but methods are really just isolated functions, if you think about it. :p 20:38:07 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7080.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:48 <Rubidium> but, lets rephrase ;) 20:38:56 <planetmaker> andythenorth: wrt the callbacks: they can be defined directly from the graphics switch (=action3) of an industry 20:39:08 <KittenKoder> It depends on the compiler and how that works. 20:39:20 <Rubidium> any programming language with functions that is compiled in a single pass 20:39:28 <KittenKoder> That works. :p 20:39:54 * andythenorth can't remember what Flash does, but that's probably a Good Thing 20:40:07 <andythenorth> or JS 20:40:10 <KittenKoder> A very good thing. 20:40:16 <KittenKoder> Javascript? 20:40:40 <andythenorth> it will do same as Flash - I think functions have to be declared first in both 20:40:41 <Alberth> a *language* defining the number of compiler passes? weird 20:40:58 <Rubidium> s/is/can be/? 20:41:25 <KittenKoder> Well, the compiler defines the language ... but meh ... 20:41:33 <KittenKoder> Actually ... I'm wrong. 20:41:35 <glx> O'Caml was fun 20:42:01 <KittenKoder> The compiler no longer defines the language strictly, many can handle more than one now. 20:42:05 <Alberth> Rubidium: that would work, but it also limits the set of languages to just Pascal, I think :) 20:42:23 <KittenKoder> >.< Pascal. 20:42:36 <Alberth> KittenKoder: and often there are several different compiler implementations for the same language 20:42:56 <KittenKoder> It's gotten a lot more complex than a=b. 20:43:04 <andythenorth> Pascal is the only language I have been taught 20:43:04 <KittenKoder> Or better ... a == b 20:43:09 <andythenorth> I skipped the lecture :P 20:43:22 <andythenorth> I did the code test 20:43:26 <andythenorth> 30/100 20:43:33 <KittenKoder> I never liked Pascal's syntax. 20:43:35 <andythenorth> I used 'top down programming' apparently that is bad :P 20:44:01 <KittenKoder> Top down is old skool! 20:44:03 <KittenKoder> :p 20:44:15 <Alberth> andythenorth: with pascal that's good, too bad you have to write your program bottom-up then :) 20:44:38 <andythenorth> or maybe I failed to use top down 20:44:43 <andythenorth> anyway, whatever I did was bad :P 20:44:52 <Alberth> (as in 'main' is at the bottom of the program) 20:45:19 <KittenKoder> Python doers that to .... annoys me. 20:45:32 <KittenKoder> >.> Odd typo. 20:45:48 <KittenKoder> Sounds like a beer name in my head. 20:45:50 <andythenorth> oh 20:45:51 <andythenorth> I seee 20:46:01 <andythenorth> top down is like defining all your interfaces as stubs 20:46:08 <andythenorth> then fleshing the detail code out later 20:46:21 <Alberth> yep 20:46:28 <andythenorth> yeah 20:46:32 <andythenorth> that's not going to work :P 20:46:32 <Wolf01> 'night 20:46:37 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host178-232-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:46:40 <KittenKoder> Doers .... like Coors only more active. 20:47:00 <andythenorth> top down design isn't design 20:47:04 <andythenorth> it's implementation 20:47:18 <andythenorth> you'd need a design before you could do it 20:47:57 <KittenKoder> I should check the HEQ thread. 20:48:06 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:48:22 <Alberth> top-down design is also a way to reach a solution, but it is VERY difficult if not impossible for anything non-trivial 20:48:23 <Rubidium> isn't design almost always top-down? 20:49:07 <Alberth> normally we jump at random between top-down, bottom-up, and aspects (and more probably) 20:49:10 <Rubidium> as in: first ou need to know what the goal of the code is, before you can think about details and how it should work algorithmically 20:50:02 <Rubidium> only question is whether you do a breadth of depth first search for the solution 20:50:08 <Alberth> theoretically yes, practically you take details into account in the global goal already 20:50:26 <KittenKoder> I love how HEQ looks in game. 20:50:28 * andythenorth has always mixed them 20:50:38 <KittenKoder> The pixel artist did awesome and the set is just nice to have. 20:50:43 <andythenorth> top down *versus* bottom up seems a false distinction 20:51:08 <KittenKoder> I do spider web coding. 20:51:10 <Alberth> KittenKoder: andythenorth is the pixel painter :) 20:51:14 <andythenorth> too many websites are made top down, the results can suck 20:51:22 <KittenKoder> andythenorth, excellent work on HEWQ. 20:51:25 <andythenorth> I can't think of a game I ever designed top down 20:51:26 <andythenorth> thanks 20:51:53 <andythenorth> most flash games there's some crux point of interaction that has to be solved 20:51:56 <andythenorth> so you start there 20:52:02 <andythenorth> and worry about the rest later 20:52:16 <Alberth> andythenorth: top-down and bottom-up are just theoretical notions, you never do them in a pure form in reality 20:52:20 <KittenKoder> Spider web coding is the only coding. /sagenod 20:52:37 <andythenorth> Alberth comp sci lecturers seem to think you do them in pure form :P 20:52:41 <KittenKoder> All others are obsolete! 20:52:43 <Rubidium> Alberth: I think that modelling it like a graph search algorithm would be better 20:52:46 <KittenKoder> Obsolete I tells yah! 20:53:21 <Alberth> Rubidium: with nested graphs, could work 20:54:08 <Rubidium> either you think a lot about stuff when going down, i.e. do something breadth first searchy, or you dive into a problem, fix it and fix the next closely related problem 20:54:35 <Alberth> andythenorth: everybody uses models to simplify the world, and obviously, if they know how to code, they would not be a teacher ;) 20:55:03 <Rubidium> hmm, maybe it's more like pre-order and in-order traversal of the graph 20:55:27 <Alberth> Rubidium: and even incremental design/implementation can be done in different ways :) 20:55:28 <Rubidium> so the complete solution with all the steps would be the graph (hopefully somewhat tree-ish) 20:55:31 <andythenorth> is there any significance to the nodes? (or what do they represent?) 20:55:53 <andythenorth> do you start at the node with most links? 20:55:57 <andythenorth> start at the edge of the graph? 20:56:11 <andythenorth> do you even know the graph until you've done the design 20:56:12 <andythenorth> ? 20:56:33 <Rubidium> andythenorth: I'd see the nodes as kind of actions/decisions, and no you don't know the graph till you're done 20:56:34 <Alberth> probably not until you have finished the implementation :) 20:56:37 <andythenorth> hmm 20:56:44 <andythenorth> the graph model is as good as any other 20:56:44 <Alberth> good night all 20:57:01 * andythenorth has just spent three months prototyping a web app so real developers can code it 20:57:24 <andythenorth> it's basically a graph search, and the skein or plane it's on is an ontology 20:57:33 <Rubidium> so the top node is the "what are you going to make"; the closer to the top node the more abstract it is 20:57:50 <Rubidium> and further away gets more to the actual coding 20:57:57 <andythenorth> in my case it was more like "what are you going to make" is 100% of the graph 20:58:04 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:58:09 <andythenorth> the entities and relationships were the graph 20:58:21 <andythenorth> and throwing away lots of the graph is how we got a workable design 20:58:39 <andythenorth> but the other way of thinking is interesting 20:58:58 <andythenorth> KittenKoder: any specific HEQS requests? 20:59:00 <andythenorth> more is planned - later 20:59:33 <KittenKoder> Some earlier ones would be nice. 20:59:39 <andythenorth> earlier trucks? trams? 20:59:46 <KittenKoder> I noticed most don't appear prior to 1970's. 20:59:50 <Rubidium> elephants! 20:59:51 <KittenKoder> Trucks. 20:59:59 <KittenKoder> I like the detail in them. :p 21:00:17 <KittenKoder> I really like the logging truck to. 21:00:18 <andythenorth> Rubidium: elephants don't help with design :P 21:00:26 <KittenKoder> The way it actually folds up when empty. 21:00:41 <Rubidium> for pulling logs and the likes through the woods in some century long ago 21:00:54 <KittenKoder> I set up forest road routes just to use that one. 21:02:09 <KittenKoder> You know, those car semis ..... 21:02:18 <KittenKoder> That would be cool for engineering and farming supplies. 21:03:10 <KittenKoder> There are some with flatbeds for tractors, I have seen, that "fold" like the logging trucks. 21:03:49 <KittenKoder> I have an elevated freeway and main strip just out my window ... so I see all sorts of stuff through here. 21:05:25 <andythenorth> Rubidium: the graph search model is really appealing 21:05:32 <andythenorth> you should write a paper :P 21:05:45 <andythenorth> query: could you start at any node, in theory? 21:06:51 <Rubidium> not really 21:07:10 <Rubidium> you'd have to start at the top node: the idea for the thing you're making 21:07:12 <andythenorth> you'd have to start at one which is known to be true 21:07:15 <Rubidium> without that, there's nothing 21:07:40 <Rubidium> but with pre-order traversal the next step would be actually doing something real 21:07:53 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 21:08:49 <andythenorth> what if the idea is, I have a cool IO algorithm, what can we do with it? 21:08:55 <andythenorth> or something 21:12:19 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 21:13:31 <Rubidium> dunno 21:13:41 <Rubidium> say that is the root? ;) 21:13:45 <andythenorth> probly 21:13:58 <andythenorth> somehow we get code written :P 21:14:03 <andythenorth> sometimes we even make money from it 21:14:11 <andythenorth> so there must be some process happening 21:14:27 <andythenorth> and the top-down and bottom-down models don't look realistic 21:14:31 <andythenorth> omg - realism :P 21:14:38 <andythenorth> models != reality 21:14:56 <Rubidium> should we make 'realism' the godwin event of this thread? 21:15:27 <KittenKoder> LOL 21:15:46 * andythenorth -> bed in that case 21:16:01 <andythenorth> KittenKoder: I need to do a truck set separate to HEQS 21:16:11 <andythenorth> but that is blocked by a few things 21:16:11 <KittenKoder> That would be cool to. 21:16:18 <KittenKoder> Oh? 21:16:44 <andythenorth> adding trailers to road vehicles would be useful in game 21:16:50 <andythenorth> I need a collaborator or two 21:16:53 <andythenorth> I need time 21:16:59 <andythenorth> and I need inclination 21:17:08 <planetmaker> :-) 21:17:14 <andythenorth> I have 4 sets already 21:17:19 <KittenKoder> Meh, just make them like you did the logging ones. 21:17:30 <KittenKoder> Start off small, get longer as you go. :p 21:17:46 <andythenorth> could do that 21:17:54 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 21:17:54 <planetmaker> FIRS is already much bigger :-P 21:17:57 <andythenorth> mostly I have enough sets to do though :) 21:18:04 <KittenKoder> Seems to be how everyone does it. 21:18:16 <andythenorth> FIRS was always going to be enormous 21:18:22 <andythenorth> it was predicted to take 18 mths 21:18:26 <planetmaker> :-D 21:18:27 <andythenorth> it's nearly 3 21:18:29 <andythenorth> years 21:18:35 <KittenKoder> Only 3 so far? 21:18:37 <KittenKoder> Oh. 21:18:38 <KittenKoder> >.<> 21:18:43 <KittenKoder> NVM. 21:18:54 <KittenKoder> I like FIRS to. 21:18:56 <Hyronymus> That's rather quick tbh 21:19:06 <andythenorth> I'm quite obsessive :P 21:19:08 <andythenorth> and I've had help 21:19:10 <KittenKoder> Gives me more reason to make complex train lines. 21:19:25 <KittenKoder> ... as well as more realistic and complex stations. 21:19:26 <andythenorth> FIRS 0.7 will rock compared to previous versions 21:19:31 <andythenorth> it's more polished 21:19:34 <planetmaker> Let's hope that 21:19:37 <andythenorth> lots of small changes 21:19:39 <Hyronymus> more progress on the Dutch Trainset Wiki: http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Dutch_Trainset 21:19:43 <andythenorth> well maybe 0.7.1 will rock 21:19:53 <Hyronymus> added some buttons from our original page 21:19:56 <andythenorth> maybe 0.7 is the 'oops' edition with lots of bugs 21:20:18 <KittenKoder> Need variable economic system though, but I don't know it that's possible with a NewGRF. 21:20:29 <KittenKoder> Such as one year something being in higher demand than another. 21:21:03 <andythenorth> that's a whole other thing 21:21:15 *** douknoukem [~KEM@78.166.118.29] has joined #openttd 21:21:20 <andythenorth> you'd need to be able to manipulate cargo payment rates, can't do that 21:21:26 *** DOUK [~KEM@78.166.118.29] has joined #openttd 21:21:31 <andythenorth> well...you can within the spec, but it's way buggy 21:21:36 <andythenorth> iirc 21:21:48 <KittenKoder> Yeah, I thought it would be a OTTD thing, that's why I submitted in the OTTD recommendation section of the forum. 21:21:56 <andythenorth> hmm 21:21:59 <andythenorth> I recall wrong 21:22:07 <KittenKoder> ??? 21:22:26 <KittenKoder> Well, if there's a way to do that, it would be fun to play. 21:22:29 <andythenorth> custom profit calculation callback at stations 21:22:43 <andythenorth> but it requires persistent storage to be any use 21:22:49 <andythenorth> and there isn't persistent storage 21:23:21 <planetmaker> yet :-P 21:23:33 <KittenKoder> If they implemented it into OTTD itself, with an advanced setting, it would probably make more sense anyway. 21:24:03 <andythenorth> YACD would be capable of doing it 21:24:05 <KittenKoder> Then it could be done with any vector without the NewGRF being coded differently. 21:24:25 <andythenorth> extend YACD to take account of longitudinal supply / demand 21:24:41 <planetmaker> vectors are not FIRS ;-) 21:24:46 <KittenKoder> Gah. 21:24:58 <KittenKoder> I'm still not great with words. :p 21:25:07 <KittenKoder> Industry sets .... 21:25:21 <KittenKoder> What ARE vectors then? In OTTD ... 21:25:31 <andythenorth> they're not an entity 21:25:37 <andythenorth> it's just the name of a set of newgrfs 21:25:43 <KittenKoder> Ah. 21:25:56 <KittenKoder> Okay, I newbed .... 21:26:04 * andythenorth ponders how well YACD might work with supply demand 21:26:25 <andythenorth> the problem is that changing supply / demand disrupts routes 21:26:36 <andythenorth> otoh...I've been trying to play with big mixed trains 21:26:59 <KittenKoder> Thus why I would love to play with that feature. 21:27:06 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:33 *** DOUK [~KEM@78.166.118.29] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:27:34 <andythenorth> it's painful without some kind of automatic dispatcher / consist control 21:27:56 <andythenorth> supply/demand worked in railroad tycoon, but only with automatic consists 21:27:58 <KittenKoder> I just think it would be fun, so I recommended it .... :p 21:28:12 <KittenKoder> I never liked Railroad Tycoon. 21:28:24 <KittenKoder> Mostly for the track stye. 21:28:35 <andythenorth> YACD models most of a supply / demand economy, it just misses spot prices for cargo 21:29:33 * andythenorth -> bed time 21:29:35 <andythenorth> goodnight 21:29:43 <planetmaker> g'night andythenorth 21:29:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:42:43 <KittenKoder> I hate making third lanes on my rails. >.< 21:47:44 <Rubidium> I'd almost say that your map is too big if you need three tracks next to eachother, but then I remember my old 128x128 savegame 21:48:46 <Rubidium> which has some 4 track bits to cope with the traffic 21:49:23 <KittenKoder> I just wind up putting too many industrial routes through one section. 21:50:29 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive_-_Hall_of_Fame <-- KittenKoder ;-) 21:50:49 <planetmaker> though... it needs updating with our other record games. 21:51:06 <KittenKoder> >.< Frell that! 21:51:18 <planetmaker> (at least records for us - in MP that is sometimes more difficult than in MP) 21:51:20 <KittenKoder> My stations are rarely bigger than four lanes. 21:51:27 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/misc/mine.png ;) 21:51:31 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-005-234.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 21:52:05 <KittenKoder> Sheesh. 21:52:47 <KittenKoder> Even when I was doing 500 train games ... but then, 128x128 with 500 trains would need a track to each train. 21:52:49 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:21 <KittenKoder> In this instance I have a machine shop and lime kiln right next to each other. 21:54:36 <KittenKoder> So I put the recieving station between them. 21:55:19 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive_-_Games_201_-_210#gameid_201 <-- and this is... a good cpu tester savegame 21:55:25 <KittenKoder> ... and both their sources are from the same general area. 21:55:35 <planetmaker> with quite a bit of houses and trains ;-) 21:55:50 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:55:51 <KittenKoder> Now I play using only about 50 trains. 21:56:56 <KittenKoder> Aaah, so city expansion does drain CPU. 21:57:04 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 21:58:44 <planetmaker> depends a bit on the houses, whether they're animated or not 22:03:00 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:57 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:18:38 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:28 <KittenKoder> The CG1 is cute, but the horn is grating. 22:25:53 *** pjpe [~pjpe@173.230.161.25] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:35:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A196BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:24 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:37:02 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-025-190.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... 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