Log for #openttd on 13th August 2011:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:13  *** osaka [] has joined #openttd
00:01:27  *** osaka [] has quit []
00:01:56  *** kasuga [] has joined #openttd
00:13:07  *** Illegal_Alien [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:20:39  *** ar3k [] has joined #openttd
00:28:03  *** ar3kaw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:30:58  *** PierreW [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:37:31  *** pugi [] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own]
00:44:32  *** Biolunar [] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!]
01:05:49  *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:30c6:eb35:c48c:c3f6] has quit [Quit: bye]
01:12:37  *** Markavian` [] has joined #openttd
01:13:13  *** lessthanthree [] has joined #openttd
01:15:38  *** Markavian [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:16:55  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:41:35  *** perk11 [] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
02:21:41  *** pjpe [] has joined #openttd
02:21:58  <pjpe> are there any plans for the future with openttd
02:22:01  <pjpe> like what's the next big step
02:22:21  <KittenKoder> Diagonal bridges!
02:22:30  <KittenKoder> Actually, I don't know, just a bit bored.
02:24:11  <pjpe> maybe they can make go to far end of station actually go to the far end of the station
02:25:32  <KittenKoder> LOL
02:25:48  *** rhaeder1 [] has joined #openttd
02:25:52  *** Markavian` [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:26:13  <KittenKoder> Multiple trains per station track ... but I think that's a bit hard to code.
02:26:21  *** Markavian` [] has joined #openttd
02:31:47  *** rhaeder [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:59:40  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
04:56:02  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:56:23  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
05:10:55  *** Kurimus [] has joined #openttd
05:20:13  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has joined #openttd
05:25:57  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:39:06  *** mkv` [] has joined #openttd
05:42:12  *** Markavian` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:20:18  *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@] has joined #openttd
06:28:05  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
06:28:37  <andythenorth> norming
06:31:08  <KittenKoder> Morning.
06:32:34  *** Cybertinus [] has joined #openttd
06:35:04  <planetmaker> moin
06:57:44  *** George|2 [~George@] has joined #openttd
06:57:44  *** George [~George@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:10:24  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
07:13:20  *** mkv` [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:13:54  *** mkv` [] has joined #openttd
07:19:22  *** George|2 [~George@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:25:53  *** George [~George@] has joined #openttd
07:35:27  *** douknoukem [~KEM@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:40:47  *** kasuga is now known as ayumu
07:40:47  *** ayumu is now known as kasuga
07:41:10  *** kasuga is now known as ayumu
07:42:12  *** Belugas [~belugas@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:44:37  *** Belugas [~belugas@] has joined #openttd
07:44:40  *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ
07:50:27  *** Neon [] has joined #openttd
07:54:15  *** ayumu [] has quit [Quit: 〜]
07:57:52  <Terkhen> good morning
08:02:08  <andythenorth> hola
08:04:35  <KittenKoder> hihi
08:18:53  *** Alberth [] has joined #openttd
08:18:57  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
08:21:26  *** DDR [] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes.   - Mogens Jallberg]
08:31:28  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
08:32:51  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
08:33:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22738 /trunk/src/ (console_cmds.cpp network/network.cpp network/network_func.h): -Fix [FS#4722] (r21854): Setting company passwords via the GUI on servers (including starting a company with the default password) failed, so no client could join.
08:34:17  <Wolf01> 'moaning
08:34:57  <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
08:35:08  <Wolf01> because it is morning and I have an annoying pain on my shoulder
08:35:11  <Wolf01> :P
08:47:35  *** mkv` [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:48:17  *** mkv` [] has joined #openttd
08:51:37  *** zachanima [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:00:58  *** Markavian` [] has joined #openttd
09:03:23  *** mkv` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:05:40  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
09:12:27  *** pjpe [] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
09:38:29  *** douknoukem [~KEM@] has joined #openttd
09:54:30  *** reikalusikka [] has joined #openttd
09:55:05  *** Pulec [] has joined #openttd
09:55:21  *** Markavian` [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:55:52  *** Markavian` [] has joined #openttd
09:56:11  <reikalusikka> has anybody here compiled openttd for the n900?
09:56:47  <planetmaker> @base 10 2 37
09:56:47  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 100101
09:57:13  *** Pulec|XNB [] has joined #openttd
10:03:12  *** Pulec [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:14:13  *** pugi [] has joined #openttd
10:25:55  *** Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
10:43:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22739 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix: The measurement tooltip is supposed to be hidden when not dragging an area.
10:44:12  <andythenorth> frosch123: how might industry be allowed to overbuild houses?
10:44:27  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22740 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix [FS#4708]: Display the size of the leveled platform in the measurement tooltip of terraforming operations.
10:49:42  <andythenorth> planetmaker:
10:49:50  <andythenorth>
10:50:01  <planetmaker> :-)
10:51:34  <V453000> :D
10:51:42  <V453000> fuck :D
10:51:56  *** pugi [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:52:05  <KittenKoder> LOL
10:53:11  <andythenorth> wrt
10:53:50  <KittenKoder> Nitpicking ... lame.
10:53:55  <frosch123> oh, there is a real highlight between two unimportant highlights :p
10:54:09  <frosch123> [12:44] <andythenorth> frosch123: how might industry be allowed to overbuild houses? <- imo not at all
10:54:32  <frosch123> though it is kind of done for the "build in towns" flag
10:54:48  <frosch123> but imo that behaviour of the flag is stupid :p
10:57:44  <andythenorth> frosch123: you think overbuilding is invalid?
10:57:47  <planetmaker> frosch123: do you think it's generally stupid that industries can be placed within a town?
10:57:52  <andythenorth> currently it's a half-assed situtation
10:58:02  <andythenorth> overbuilding is possible, but the newgrf control of it is limited
10:58:09  <frosch123> planetmaker: no, it is stupid that you have to build them on top of houses
10:58:20  <V453000> half-assed :DDD brilliant expression
10:58:23  <Alberth> planetmaker: it happens, also in RL, but they tend to move away
10:58:35  <planetmaker> but how could the game do that later, if that were not allowed?
10:58:46  <planetmaker> I agree it should not be a 'has to be' condition
10:59:15  <frosch123> well, it might be kind of ok-ish for randomly placed industries :)
10:59:31  <andythenorth> it should just be another newgrf tile check :P
10:59:43  <frosch123> but whenever someone asks "how can i fund a bank", the current answer is stupid :p
10:59:48  <Alberth> servicing the industry becomes a problem, so it will die due to lack of being serviced
10:59:51  <andythenorth> hmm
10:59:57  <andythenorth> there's always a fricking edge case
11:00:12  <andythenorth> in this case the edge case is whether the town allows player to bulldoze those houses
11:00:21  <andythenorth> for game generating a new industry that's no issue
11:00:30  <planetmaker> frosch123: imho the correct way would be "allow on houses" without impication "must be on houses"
11:00:33  <Alberth> andythenorth: otherwise it would be crystal clear and we would not have this discussion :)
11:00:58  <frosch123> planetmaker: but it should be very close to houses :)
11:01:22  * andythenorth wonders what town does in current case
11:01:29  <planetmaker> yes, like additonal town vicinity check. like r <= town_zone_5 or so
11:01:37  <KittenKoder> Frell. I think I got my parameter labels bassackwards.
11:01:55  <Alberth> :)
11:02:34  <andythenorth> current case pays no attention to town rating
11:03:14  <frosch123> well, that is usually no problem, as industries cannot be removed by players either :)
11:03:27  <planetmaker> but for funding?
11:04:01  <frosch123> well, maybe we should soften the current flag, to also allow non-house tiles when neighboured tiles are houses
11:04:12  <frosch123> i do not see need for a more detailed check
11:04:46  <frosch123> resp. there is also a "close by town, but no house" flag
11:05:28  <Terkhen> that would be nice, the current behaviour is annoying :P
11:06:21  <andythenorth> frosch123: I would rather move away from flags
11:06:29  <andythenorth> this should be a cb 28 / 2f check by newgrf author
11:06:44  <andythenorth> it makes for a confusing API to have both flags and cbs covering similar cases
11:07:07  <planetmaker> yes, but we cannot simply remove it :_9
11:07:18  <frosch123> oh, my earlier suggestion is void
11:07:35  <frosch123> INDUSTRYBEH_ONLY_NEARTOWN already means "may be house, but doed not need to"
11:08:29  <frosch123> andythenorth: just use that flag to allow houses
11:09:20  <frosch123> it will restrict distance of northern industry tile  to town sign to 9 tiles (manhattan)=
11:09:55  <andythenorth> hmm
11:10:34  <planetmaker> frosch123: we might have a bug there...
11:10:53  <planetmaker> with bit 5 set I cannot build on houses
11:11:37  <andythenorth> have you come across languages / frameworks which mark things as deprecated, but leave them in place?
11:12:14  <frosch123> noai
11:12:41  <frosch123> planetmaker: works for toy shop
11:12:49  <planetmaker> yes. But not for FIRS
11:12:54  <planetmaker> e.g. builder's yard
11:13:02  <planetmaker> and it has that one set
11:15:50  <frosch123> works for me
11:16:01  <frosch123> using tip
11:16:08  <frosch123> of both nml and firs
11:16:33  <andythenorth> works for me too
11:16:38  <andythenorth> must have been the special flag issue
11:17:08  <planetmaker> hm
11:17:30  <frosch123> i can destroy a whole town to population 0 by funding builders yards :p
11:17:36  <andythenorth> still annoying
11:17:43  <andythenorth> we can't allow player to build wherever they like
11:17:50  <andythenorth> whilst also allowing house overbuild
11:18:38  <frosch123> it's kind of expensive, but ruins a online game with enough money :)
11:19:40  <frosch123> so the "one industry per town"-setting has some use :p
11:20:45  <planetmaker> hm, indeed works for me now
11:20:54  <planetmaker> Swedish people must have huge families though
11:21:14  <planetmaker> This one one-family house which remained in that town has a population of 155
11:21:49  <frosch123> well, if you bulldoze everything, they have to move somewhere?
11:21:56  <planetmaker> :-)
11:22:21  <planetmaker> They probably get cheap construction material now, with all that competition of the builder yards
11:22:45  <planetmaker> they still also have a petrol station, so getting it from there to their home is no issue, too
11:22:52  <Rubidium> probably each of them is owner of a builder yard
11:23:16  <frosch123> sounds like "oilrig increases passenger production by 100%"
11:27:58  * andythenorth re-reads own comment above
11:28:09  <andythenorth> I wasn't clear in what I meant :P
11:29:09  *** Biolunar [] has joined #openttd
11:33:04  <andythenorth> I'm not too bothered about griefing risk from allowing industries to overbuild houses
11:33:12  <Alberth> planetmaker: most live underground, so they are not bothered by industries destroying their home
11:33:26  <andythenorth> the griefing risk exists already
11:33:48  <andythenorth> issue is that mostly FIRS allows players to place industry wherever they like
11:34:04  <andythenorth> but for town industry, I have to use bit 3 or 5 on special flags
11:34:20  <andythenorth> which means I can't allow player to place anywhere
11:34:33  <andythenorth> whilst also guiding map-gen / in-game generator
11:35:02  <andythenorth> if that makes sense?
11:39:20  *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:42:57  *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@] has joined #openttd
11:48:14  *** lessthanthree [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:48:53  *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:50:38  <KittenKoder> In spite of a few pixel flaws and possible parameter error, I like my new track.
11:53:36  <KittenKoder> It's a good start to the sci-fi set I will work on soon.
11:54:23  <KittenKoder> andythenorth, are you still alert here?
11:54:33  <andythenorth> yup
11:54:45  <KittenKoder> What do you think of this idea?
11:55:17  <Terkhen> are you aware of the vactrain set?
11:56:30  <KittenKoder> 3 Maglev tracks based on the three most common concepts in sci-fi work. First is just basically monorail but with a more science fictiony look, second is the standard maglev, third is the more fantasy based "Tesla" track ....
11:56:52  <KittenKoder> Terkhen, I'm talking sci-fi, not insane speeds.
11:57:15  <KittenKoder> Back in the 60's science fiction trains were "up to 100 mph" ....
11:57:26  <planetmaker> he, having seen the talk about sci-fi immediately the vactrains came to my mind
11:57:33  <Terkhen> vactrains are also sci-fi :)
11:57:34  <planetmaker> KittenKoder: no
11:57:43  <Terkhen> you are talking about vintage sci-fi :P
11:57:45  <planetmaker> back in 1930 there were 160km/h trains
11:57:50  <planetmaker> in real life
11:58:52  <KittenKoder> Science fiction was more about the look. ;) The set will not be to make super fast insane speed trains, but to make trains comparable to that era with the look of what they dreamt.
11:59:30  <KittenKoder> Terkhen, exactly.
12:01:14  <KittenKoder> Science fiction in the earlier eras did not have as much science in them, depending on the author. Lovecraft sci-fi, for instance, was a lot of transdimensional fantasy, purely aesthetic. Asimov however was far more science based, he even had some actual train concepts in one of his Opuses.
12:01:44  <planetmaker> asimov had a strong science background after all
12:01:49  <KittenKoder> Very much so.
12:01:55  <planetmaker> being later a professor in biology
12:02:11  <KittenKoder> If you read his Opus books he actually explains his theories used in his fictional books.
12:02:20  <planetmaker> I know. I read them all :-P
12:02:31  <KittenKoder> ^_^ Yay, another Asimov reader.
12:02:45  <KittenKoder> I idolize him a bit too much, being a huge fan of real AI.
12:03:26  <KittenKoder> It was my childhood dream to be one of those to complete the first true AI, alas ... the dream is nearly dead, but meh.
12:03:35  <planetmaker> yeah, he did an amazing job with his robot stories.
12:03:39  <Terkhen> you can still make an OpenTTD AI :P
12:03:53  <Terkhen> if it follows the three rules it won't get much money, though
12:04:00  <planetmaker> Actually laying the path for many thought trails
12:04:04  <KittenKoder> Well, I am still learning the languages for OTTD, however I was considering it.
12:04:16  <planetmaker> NoAIs are written in squirrel
12:04:38  <KittenKoder> Could one be written in c or c++?
12:05:30  <KittenKoder> ... better question to append to that, is there an API as well?
12:06:27  <KittenKoder> The 2cc set maglevs really line up nicely on my new maglev track graphics.
12:06:29  <planetmaker> could. But will not be supported by official versions
12:06:37  *** douknoukem [~KEM@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:06:55  <planetmaker> but yes, the API is for squirrel
12:06:59  <KittenKoder> Aaah ... best to make it supported by official versions so people would actually be more likely to test it.
12:07:25  <planetmaker> the old AI which was part of the game was in C. But... it was notoriously bad and cheated
12:07:34  <KittenKoder> LOL
12:07:37  <planetmaker> And now... the AI work is out-sourced from a dev POV :-P
12:07:43  <KittenKoder> The Open version, you mean?
12:07:54  <planetmaker> we're in OpenTTD
12:08:23  <KittenKoder> The original TTD AI wasn't that bad, it wasn't smart but it was smarter and planned things.
12:09:16  <KittenKoder> Though there was the "stray track" error if you outcompeted ....
12:09:22  <planetmaker> it was pretty stupid. But the same logic increasingly failed with new additions and esp. newgrfs
12:10:05  <KittenKoder> Could NML handle AI coding or would I have to buckle down for that?
12:10:56  <planetmaker> Nope. NewGRFs and AIs are completely different things
12:11:13  <KittenKoder> Aaah.
12:11:20  <planetmaker> NML is the NewGRF language. Squirrel the NoAI language. C/C++ the OpenTTD source language
12:11:22  <KittenKoder> So I need to learn Squirel.
12:11:26  *** Lakie [~Lakie@] has joined #openttd
12:11:26  <planetmaker> yep
12:11:34  <planetmaker> not difficult from what it looks like
12:11:40  <KittenKoder> Or just figure out the c/c++ interface.
12:12:02  <planetmaker> won't work. It's a squirrel-API which OpenTTD offers
12:12:12  <KittenKoder> But since Squirrel is part of the official version, I'll look into it.
12:12:29  <KittenKoder> Anyhow, what did you think of my idea?
12:12:42  <KittenKoder> The maglev thing.
12:12:57  <planetmaker> You don't need squirrel really. OpenTTD brings all it needs
12:13:19  <planetmaker> It offers so-to-speak squirrel VMs for AIs
12:14:11  <KittenKoder> I'll look into it more once I get my train design itch out of the way.
12:14:30  <planetmaker> look in src/script :-)
12:15:50  <planetmaker> but what idea do you mean?
12:17:02  <Eddi|zuHause> you realize how annoying it is to read a conversation between two people with the same nick length and nick colour?
12:17:26  <andythenorth> at least one of them has upper case
12:17:28  <KittenKoder> LOL
12:17:32  <andythenorth> so you can visually distinguish
12:17:50  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i can't, colour practically dominates all other differences.
12:17:52  <andythenorth> we have two people at work whose names are same length, begin with 'r' and end in 'a'
12:17:58  <KittenKoder> I'm glad one of them is me, I can tell what I'm saying.
12:18:12  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: perhaps you should improve the colour allocation thingie to also take nickname length into account
12:18:28  <KittenKoder> Script.
12:19:03  <Terkhen> yup, I should do that too
12:20:18  <KittenKoder> Cool, I didn't screw up the parameter labels, I just chose the wrong settings. >.<
12:22:18  *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d1c6:b1e:8b95:9f0b] has joined #openttd
12:22:21  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
12:22:39  <KittenKoder> Where is glu?
12:23:55  <KittenKoder> I actually made an efficient industrial "complex" that's even cool looking.
12:24:37  <Alberth> do you have a screen shot?
12:24:57  <KittenKoder> Guess I should take one before the nearby city overtakes it, huh.
12:25:12  <Alberth> load an old autosave :)
12:26:13  <KittenKoder> I don't bother with autosave.
12:26:34  <KittenKoder> Making a composite ....
12:27:04  <KittenKoder> Yay for Gimp!
12:27:47  *** Juo [] has quit [Quit: Juo]
12:29:32  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
12:34:28  *** reikalusikka [] has quit []
12:36:53  <KittenKoder> Just need to upload.
12:38:09  <KittenKoder> Alright, it's pretty big:
12:39:22  <KittenKoder> The coal mine on the left is going to a steel mill.
12:40:04  <frosch123> did you cut stuff aways, or did you compose that from multiple screenshots?
12:40:21  <KittenKoder> Multiple shots.
12:40:29  <frosch123> in the latter case there is a screenshot funtion to create a zoomed-in screenshot of the area you see when zoomed out
12:40:47  <KittenKoder> I keep forgetting about that. >.<
12:41:51  <frosch123> and i do not see maglev on that screenshot :p
12:41:53  <Alberth> neat!   Much nicer than I make them
12:42:20  <KittenKoder> Nope, I have a maglev in the game, it's a passenger express route, way on the edges though.
12:42:26  <andythenorth> he
12:42:28  <andythenorth> flat maps :)
12:42:32  <KittenKoder> That's all electirc.
12:42:35  <andythenorth> I played a flat map once
12:42:50  <KittenKoder> Actually, it's a subsection of the Congo map.
12:43:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r22741 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_airport.h table/airport_movement.h): -Add: Add exit direction of hangars to airport specifications.
12:43:37  <KittenKoder> The game has this weird habit of putting most industries and towns in flat areas for me.
12:44:00  <KittenKoder> I have to rerandomize everything a few times just to get one that's at least a little spread out.
12:44:17  <andythenorth> KittenKoder: it's largely because most industries can only build on flat ground
12:44:23  *** TWerkhoven [] has joined #openttd
12:44:25  <KittenKoder> I figured.
12:44:34  <andythenorth> especially the big FIRS industries :(
12:44:43  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r22742 /trunk/src/station_base.h: -Add: Add function to query exit direction of hangars at airports.
12:44:49  <KittenKoder> I like FIRS though, so I put up with it. ;)
12:45:15  <KittenKoder> The standard industries are just boring and ECS never works for me.
12:45:17  <planetmaker> well... we *might* go for changing that between 0.7 and 1.0 ;-)
12:45:38  <KittenKoder> That would be cool if possible.
12:45:40  <andythenorth> planetmaker: it's pretty tricky :P
12:45:47  <andythenorth> the ones that can build on slopes, do
12:45:59  <KittenKoder> Oil wells build anywhere.
12:46:04  <planetmaker> we just convert the whole set from nfo to NML. Which will be done with 0.7 coming out
12:46:07  <planetmaker> andythenorth: of course it is
12:46:09  <KittenKoder> I love the oil wells in FIRS.
12:46:14  <andythenorth> it has been often discussed to have the game terraform better for industry
12:46:17  <planetmaker> not everything would be buildable on slopes. But...
12:46:35  <planetmaker> andythenorth: no terraform. Just proper sprites ;-)
12:46:49  <andythenorth> hmm
12:46:52  <planetmaker> or often proper offsets would suffice
12:46:53  <andythenorth> you have a secret plan?
12:46:57  <planetmaker> no :-P
12:47:00  <KittenKoder> I think the toyland should be replaced with "mixed" and have industries with specific terrain preferences.
12:47:07  <planetmaker> But things like junk yard could do w/o foundations
12:47:11  <KittenKoder> But that may be a bit too much to ask at this point.
12:47:20  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r22743 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4696]: Make aircraft point to the exit when leaving the hangar.
12:47:29  <planetmaker> and maybe houses of a larger industry could go for different slopes, too
12:47:36  <andythenorth> planetmaker: the only way proposed so far requires drawing ~22 sprites per tile
12:47:37  <planetmaker> allow something more in those cases
12:47:43  <Terkhen> KittenKoder: OpenGFX+ Industries allows you to customize which default industries you want to use, regardless of climate
12:47:54  <planetmaker> andythenorth: there's 19 slopes exactly :-P
12:47:57  <andythenorth> although junk yard might be a special case as it's similar to forests + fruit plantations
12:48:04  <planetmaker> you grossly overestimate the work by 15% :-P
12:48:17  <andythenorth> junk yard is mostly fences and vehicles
12:48:18  <KittenKoder> Terkhen, I believe you missed my point. ;)
12:48:46  <andythenorth> if we restricted certain tiles to flat....&& someone drew the ground tile, it could build on slopes...
12:48:52  <planetmaker> KittenKoder: how so?
12:49:03  <andythenorth> mixed terrain
12:49:10  <andythenorth> all-climates-one-climate
12:49:18  <KittenKoder> !
12:49:21  <KittenKoder> ^
12:49:25  <Terkhen> good luck with that :)
12:49:28  <KittenKoder> Wrong symbol.
12:49:50  <KittenKoder> As I said, it may be too much trouble for them, but it would be a nice touch.
12:50:24  <andythenorth> planetmaker: any industry with large sliced buildings is a straight NO for slopes
12:50:36  <andythenorth> some of the others might still be taught how to build on slopes though
12:50:50  <KittenKoder> Thus forest based industries would be more inclined to appear in temperate terrain, mines in tropic and arctic, oil all over ... secondary clustered near towns, etc.
12:51:03  <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes, those building tiles don't go on slopes, of course
12:51:44  <KittenKoder> Couldn't the industry sprites be broken like the oil wells but stuck together?
12:51:53  <andythenorth> some can yes
12:51:57  <KittenKoder> I think I saw a few junk yards that were on different levels.
12:52:35  <andythenorth> lumber yard could *nearly* be taught to build on a slope
12:52:48  <KittenKoder> Yeah, and I have a sawmill in two levels on that screen cap.
12:52:51  <andythenorth> planetmaker: if you want to extend the slope-building, some industries will need two tiles instead of one
12:53:04  <planetmaker> maybe, yes
12:53:12  <planetmaker> I wouldn't die from that ;-)
12:53:18  <andythenorth> no, we have enough tile IDs
12:53:27  <KittenKoder> LOL
12:53:29  <andythenorth> just mentioning as you guys are busy templating :P
12:53:39  <KittenKoder> There is a lot of variety in FIRS already.
12:53:42  <planetmaker> do you really care about tileIDs?
12:53:57  <andythenorth> yes and no
12:53:59  <planetmaker> we're at 1.1...1.3 per industry
12:54:20  <andythenorth> the approach we use will stay within the limit
12:54:25  <planetmaker> giving each industry an average of 2 won't kill us
12:54:28  <andythenorth> the limit is quite low
12:54:35  <planetmaker> 256 or so?
12:54:38  <andythenorth> think so
12:54:42  <andythenorth> might not be pooled though
12:55:10  <andythenorth> 256 per grf
12:55:18  <andythenorth> but 512 in total, including original
12:55:20  <planetmaker> 512 all in all 256 per grf
12:55:23  <andythenorth> so no issue
12:55:51  <planetmaker> I don't say we should waste them. But we have sufficient space
12:57:13  <andythenorth> metal foundry could also be taught to build on slopes
12:57:28  <andythenorth> although there would be some odd appearance (not broken though)
12:57:45  <KittenKoder> I like how the farms cluster if you allow multiple industries per town.
12:57:50  <andythenorth> planetmaker: changing tile IDs is a savegame break though
12:57:56  <andythenorth> so might be worth trying to do in 0.7
12:58:07  <andythenorth> I really want to avoid save game breaks from 0.7 onwards if possible
12:58:34  <KittenKoder> Meh.
13:05:47  <andythenorth> paper mill and sugar refinery could also be taught to build on slopes
13:05:53  <andythenorth> although sugar refinery maybe shouldn't
13:06:51  <Rubidium> you ought to use a major version number bump for breaking changes
13:07:10  <andythenorth> like 1.0? :P
13:07:18  <Rubidium> yep
13:07:23  <andythenorth> hmm
13:07:31  <andythenorth> if we get to 1.0, then we won't break version until 2.0
13:07:39  <andythenorth> unless it's a critical bug fix
13:07:51  <andythenorth> but we're not at 1.0 yet, by a mile :|
13:10:05  <planetmaker> Rubidium: so far FIRS has been using the OpenTTD scheme: a.b.c where b is the "major" version and a the "super" version so to speak ;-)
13:12:23  <KittenKoder> TGV are pretty.
13:19:51  <Terkhen> so 0.7 should be feature and industry complete already?
13:22:07  <andythenorth> Terkhen: no
13:22:11  <andythenorth> check the tickets :)
13:22:22  <andythenorth> there are some remaining tasks
13:23:02  <Terkhen> none of those breaks savegame compatibility?
13:23:07  <andythenorth> but after 0.7 I'm hoping to avoid changes to action 0 stuff
13:23:50  <andythenorth> hopefully from 0.7 onwards, a lot of polishing can be done for 1.0
13:24:00  <andythenorth> leaving major game-breaking changes until 2.0
13:24:25  <andythenorth> I've played quite a bit with FIRS trunk, it's not rubbish anymore
13:24:32  <andythenorth> still not good, but not rubbish
13:27:23  <andythenorth> ~200 changes between 0.6.4 and 0.7, excluding nml conversion
13:29:06  <Terkhen> after 0.7 I want to add a framework to conditionally select industries, as done on OpenGFX+ Industries
13:29:15  <Terkhen> after that, economies should be easier
13:29:20  <planetmaker> That's economies, Terkhen
13:29:28  <andythenorth> hmm
13:29:29  <planetmaker> not per industry, but per sector
13:29:32  <Terkhen> I know :P
13:29:34  <andythenorth> economies == later :)
13:29:45  <planetmaker> each one individually doesn't make sense with FIRS imho
13:29:45  <Terkhen> andythenorth: yes, the framework by itself will do nothing
13:30:00  <andythenorth> it needs to handle some other things, like probability and such
13:30:12  <andythenorth> lots of action 6 or whatever :(
13:30:16  <KittenKoder> What do you mean by economies in FIRS?
13:30:36  <planetmaker> emphasis on certain sectors
13:30:38  <andythenorth> yes
13:30:44  <KittenKoder> Aah.
13:30:45  <Terkhen> andythenorth: probability_ingame: (economy_param == whatever) ? 4 : 2;
13:30:49  <KittenKoder> That would be cool.
13:30:55  <andythenorth> so 'farming' economy
13:31:02  <andythenorth> or 'city' economy
13:31:36  <andythenorth> things that might vary: included industries, included cargos, cargo payment rates, probabilities
13:31:41  <Terkhen> andythenorth, planetmaker: what I meant is; include the code for conditionally including / disabling industries
13:31:50  <Terkhen> then that code gets tested as in theory it should do nothing
13:32:10  <KittenKoder> Differing cargo payment rates for games would be nice ...
13:32:11  <Terkhen> therefore it makes sense to include it even before economies are done
13:32:21  <planetmaker> Terkhen: I've no problem with that
13:32:51  <Terkhen> this should be done after 0.7 (so we can identify bugs caused by conversion more easily) but before economies are introduced (to get some testing)
13:33:02  <Terkhen> and yes, custom cargo payment rate methods would be nice
13:33:22  <Terkhen> I want to do some for OpenGFX+ Industries, but I have no clue of what mechanics they should follow :)
13:33:30  <planetmaker> :-)
13:33:34  <KittenKoder> Right now when I look at the industry layout my eyes just jump straight to the highest pay, lowest cost industry connections. It'd be nice to get tripped up more.
13:34:36  * andythenorth afk
13:36:09  <andythenorth> Terkhen: maybe include disable / enable for 0.7.x
13:36:21  <andythenorth> and then try and get n economies done for 0.8
13:36:28  <Terkhen> hmm... ok :)
13:36:43  <Terkhen> I'll start with that once that the conversion is complete
13:37:26  <planetmaker> hm... I'm not sure... I think 0.7 should not go for too much
13:41:03  <andythenorth> I wasn't thinking for 0.7.0 ;)
13:41:10  <andythenorth> and 0.7.1 is likely to be a bug fix release
13:41:18  <andythenorth> but maybe after that
13:43:46  <Terkhen> ok :P
14:14:49  *** pugi [] has joined #openttd
14:22:40  *** Lakie` [~Lakie@] has joined #openttd
14:24:17  *** Lakie [~Lakie@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:26:41  *** llugo [] has joined #openttd
14:35:15  *** Lakie [~Lakie@] has joined #openttd
14:38:17  *** Lakie` [~Lakie@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:42:07  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
14:57:26  *** llugo [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:15:38  *** Brianetta [~brian@] has joined #openttd
15:18:14  *** Zuu [~Zuu@] has joined #openttd
15:18:46  *** Zuu is now known as Guest5783
15:24:41  *** the [] has joined #openttd
15:25:03  *** Guest5783 [~Zuu@] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc]
15:25:13  *** the [] has quit []
15:28:53  *** KouDy [] has joined #openttd
15:44:12  *** Brianetta [~brian@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:44:43  *** test [~test@] has joined #openttd
15:44:51  *** Firzen [] has joined #openttd
15:48:49  <WMP> how to use ? I havent replace vehicles
15:49:21  *** test [~test@] has quit []
15:49:35  <Alberth> did you setup a replacement?
15:49:41  *** test [~test@] has joined #openttd
15:50:27  *** Neon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:50:33  <Alberth> ie open the window as shown in the 2nd picture, and press 'start replacing' at the bottom left
15:50:51  *** test [~test@] has quit []
15:51:12  <WMP> i havent replacement
15:51:15  *** test [~test@] has joined #openttd
15:51:17  <WMP> how to setup this?
15:51:28  <Alberth> after you have done that, vehicles for which you set up a replacement will get replaced when they visit a depot
15:52:38  *** OwenS [~oshepherd@2002:6d4a:c7b0::1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:52:47  <Alberth> you can send one manually to the depot as test
15:53:00  <WMP> i send all vehicles
15:53:19  *** OwenS [] has joined #openttd
15:53:34  <WMP> but i havent installed replacement
15:54:14  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:54:24  <Alberth> then nothing gets replaced, first open the window shown at the 2nd picture (by clicking at 'replace vehicles' as shown in the first picture)
15:54:44  <WMP> and i havent replace vehicles
15:55:11  <Alberth> then at the left, select the engine you currently have, at the right the engine you want to have
15:55:12  <WMP> version: OpenTTD 1.1.2-RC2
15:55:34  <Alberth> WMP: I don't understand where you are stuck
15:55:50  <Alberth> can you open the window as shown at the 2nd picture?
15:56:34  <WMP> O
15:56:36  <WMP> i'm blink ;)
15:56:40  <WMP> ok, no rpoblem ;)
15:56:58  <test> Sorry for the many connection attempts. Finding a client for an old phone isnt so easy. :p
15:57:36  <Alberth> WMP: Alberth: then at the left, select the engine you currently have, at the right the engine you want to have
15:57:41  *** MNIM [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:58:01  <Alberth> then press 'start replacing' at the bottom left
15:58:07  <Alberth> did you do that?
15:58:08  <WMP> Alberth: is posisble to replace rail to maglev?
15:58:21  <Alberth> rail, sure
15:58:41  <Alberth> switch to maglev tracks, and use 'update'
15:59:32  <Alberth>
15:59:47  <WMP> i think about rail vehicle
15:59:51  <Alberth> euhm, it's called 'convert' instead of 'update' :)
15:59:52  <WMP> to maglevel vehicle
16:00:04  <Alberth> no, not possible
16:00:10  <WMP> ughhh...
16:00:23  <Alberth> as the old engine has to be in a different depot then the new one
16:00:52  <Alberth> but you can build a maglev depot, build one train, and clone all others
16:01:03  <test> And we dont have multi-tile  depots.
16:01:54  *** Pinkbeast [] has joined #openttd
16:02:00  <WMP> ohhh...
16:02:14  <Alberth> test: and even then, you'd need to define replacement of all vehicles, not just the engine
16:02:17  <WMP> so i must make 50 new train....
16:03:06  <Alberth> I don't upgrade, and build a new rail system next to the existing one
16:03:34  <Alberth> gtg, food is ready now :)
16:07:35  *** test is now known as Zuuu
16:10:12  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
16:16:08  *** Zuuu [~test@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:19:58  *** Firzen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:22:04  *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@] has joined #openttd
16:41:54  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:06:12  *** pugi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:06:39  *** pugi [] has joined #openttd
17:20:36  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
17:27:41  <Ammler> WMP: there are newgrfs for that task
17:48:29  <andythenorth> bonsoir
17:49:49  <__ln__> seulement anglais
17:51:31  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:52:55  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
17:58:25  *** pjpe [] has joined #openttd
17:59:24  <andythenorth> pas de anglais
18:00:59  <__ln__> voilà la baguette
18:01:50  <andythenorth> ici un chien
18:03:30  <__ln__> três bien
18:10:17  *** TWerkhoven [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:11:20  *** Lakie [~Lakie@] has quit [Quit: .]
19:04:38  *** Ragnoff [] has joined #openttd
19:05:44  <Ragnoff> Wow, a lot more people than i expected!
19:08:10  <frosch123> hello no 100
19:08:21  *** Biolunar [] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!]
19:28:44  <pjpe> is there any major glaring bugs that would make the nightly 2cc right now not a great idea to play with
19:28:47  <pjpe> over the 2.0 beta
19:29:33  <Terkhen> I don't know, the 2cc thread might be a better place to ask that
19:41:34  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
19:53:49  <frosch123> what? a wagon cots 592 to buy, and 2460 to refit :o
19:54:49  *** pjpe [] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
19:54:53  <Terkhen> companies prefer that you buy new stuff :)
19:55:22  <frosch123> well, that's bad. that mean i am bankrupt :s
19:55:38  <frosch123> build my first route and just managed to buy the engine and vehicles
19:55:44  <frosch123> and now i have no money to refit :p
19:56:02  <Terkhen> hmm... with what train set?
19:56:09  <frosch123> serbian standard gauge
19:56:16  <Terkhen> never heard of it :P
19:56:22  <Terkhen> sounds like a bug to me
19:56:24  <frosch123> i just picked some set :)
19:56:32  <Terkhen> or a wrong design decision maybe
20:05:55  *** mattt_ [] has joined #openttd
20:06:21  <frosch123> at least wagons with a capacity of 5 bags of gold have very quick loading/unloading :)
20:10:27  <frosch123> hmm, refit costs are added to "running costs" in the finance window
20:12:33  *** Zeknurn [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:17:30  *** Zeknurn [] has joined #openttd
20:17:33  <Terkhen> sounds expensive :P
20:18:38  <frosch123> yeah, now using ogfx+trains :)
20:18:56  <frosch123> it would have taken 5 years to get the money for the next train
20:22:33  <Terkhen> :P
20:30:56  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
20:37:58  *** rhaeder [] has joined #openttd
20:41:47  *** rhaeder1 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:56:31  *** V453000 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:56:37  *** tneo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:56:37  *** SmatZ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:58:03  *** Hirundo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:59:36  *** Osai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:59:37  *** planetmaker [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:00:06  *** DJNekkid [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:00:07  *** avdg [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:00:07  *** Terkhen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:00:11  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:00:16  *** Ammler [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:00:17  *** ^Spike^ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:01:42  *** Kurimus [] has quit []
21:03:53  <Wolf01> 'night
21:04:05  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:07:10  *** tneo [] has joined #openttd
21:07:41  *** SmatZ [] has joined #openttd
21:08:05  *** ^Spike^ [] has joined #openttd
21:08:11  *** Hirundo [] has joined #openttd
21:08:11  *** planetmaker [] has joined #openttd
21:08:14  *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ
21:08:41  *** Ammler [] has joined #openttd
21:09:11  *** Terkhen [] has joined #openttd
21:09:11  *** Osai [] has joined #openttd
21:09:15  *** mode/#openttd [+o Terkhen] by ChanServ
21:09:27  *** XeryusTC [] has joined #openttd
21:09:41  *** V453000 [] has joined #openttd
21:10:11  *** avdg [] has joined #openttd
21:10:11  *** DJNekkid [] has joined #openttd
21:18:22  *** KritiK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:23:53  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
21:34:10  *** pjpe [] has joined #openttd
21:34:36  <pjpe> there's some uh
21:34:46  <pjpe> interesting stuff on that 2cc repository
21:34:48  <pjpe>
21:34:55  <pjpe>
21:34:56  <pjpe> O_O
21:35:17  <Terkhen> good night
21:36:29  <planetmaker> luckily it's not the 2cc _repo_
21:36:41  <planetmaker> learn to know the main coder's wife there
21:40:36  <pjpe> learn to know?
21:41:54  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
21:42:27  <planetmaker> whatever "meet" or... how you like
21:57:11  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
22:03:44  *** KouDy [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
22:04:25  *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
22:07:24  <frosch123> night
22:07:27  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:55:31  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
22:59:22  *** Cybertinus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:05:13  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:20:54  *** MNIM [] has joined #openttd
23:21:37  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:37:11  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:38:44  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:41:25  *** pugi [] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own]
23:56:46  *** tparker [~tparker@2600:3c03::1d:4242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:58:07  *** tparker [~tparker@2600:3c03::1d:4242] has joined #openttd

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk