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00:02:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19DAC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:27 <pjpe> question: is there any limit to the length of trams? 00:17:24 <__ln__> greater than zero 00:17:40 <pjpe> damn 00:18:39 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:21:24 *** Theos [~Theos@ool-4576c1d9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:22:11 *** mattt_ [~m@24-246-2-147.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 00:22:38 *** mattt_ [~m@24-246-2-147.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [] 00:24:14 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebk127.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 00:28:53 *** ar3k [~ident@ecq251.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:29:14 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-046-254.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 00:33:06 <pjpe> i'm guessing long 00:33:11 <pjpe> since modern tram set is exactly what i was thinking 00:33:13 <pjpe> longish trams 00:36:35 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Quit: I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 00:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of limit do you have in mind? 00:40:52 <Eddi|zuHause> trams are fixed units, so the newgrf has full control over their length 00:42:00 <pjpe> well i mean could you have 10 tile length trams 00:42:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but only if you use a newgrf that has some 00:42:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the length limit is 64 tiles, just like trains 00:42:58 <Eddi|zuHause> only that trams are not affected by platform length 00:43:03 <pjpe> was just wondering if you could have like 3 or 4 tile length trams 00:43:08 <pjpe> instead of the wimpy little looking ones 00:43:10 <Eddi|zuHause> which might be an oversight 00:43:14 <pjpe> but you can with modern tram set! 00:47:03 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.230.44] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:47:54 *** KittenKoder [~kitten@174-24-255-9.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:08:40 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebk127.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:09:19 *** ar3k [~ident@83.22.200.127] has joined #openttd 01:09:20 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 01:10:37 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFDD75.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:11:21 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:f1c0:4de2:d926:9db8] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:26:36 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-129-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:31:28 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-212-234.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:42:06 *** pikka [~yaaic@101.118.203.130] has joined #openttd 02:54:14 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFD6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:56:27 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@205.185.119.44] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 02:56:45 *** ccfreak2k_ [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has joined #openttd 02:56:46 *** ccfreak2k_ is now known as ccfreak2k 02:58:11 *** lugo [bnc4free@209.141.56.5] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:00:03 *** mattt_ [~m@24-246-2-147.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 03:05:53 *** lugo [bnc4free@209.141.56.5] has joined #openttd 03:09:54 *** mattt_ [~m@24-246-2-147.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:14:33 <pikka> lalala 03:14:56 *** KittenKoder [~kitten@174-24-255-9.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #openttd 03:24:48 <pikka> hello kk, how goes things? 03:25:20 <KittenKoder> Pretty good, switching OSes now. 03:25:29 <KittenKoder> Ubuntu pissed me off with the last update. 03:25:38 <pikka> oops 03:26:08 <KittenKoder> So going Open Suse/Gentoo 03:26:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.173.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:26:38 <KittenKoder> The cool part is that the ATI drivers actually work out of the box this time. 03:26:46 <KittenKoder> No manual tweaking needed. 03:27:38 <KittenKoder> It actually shocked me, I had the websites all pulled up and everything then noticed that Gnome's effects were working ... those only work if the drivers are perfect. 03:28:16 <pikka> sounds good :) 03:28:47 <KittenKoder> So far ... gotta get the more recent stuff updated then we'll see. 03:29:48 <KittenKoder> I tested it all on my laptop first to .... 03:29:55 <KittenKoder> All my computers like Gentoo more .... 04:38:02 *** KittenKoder [~kitten@174-24-255-9.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:40:03 *** KittenKoder [~kitten@174-24-255-9.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #openttd 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75171.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B731A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:59:03 <planetmaker> moin 04:59:32 <pjpe> what's the name of that newgrf that had station tiles like union station 04:59:36 <pjpe> some prolific ones like that 05:13:52 <pikka> poin mlanet 05:21:51 <pjpe> i think it's the us set 05:21:56 <pjpe> and it IS the toronto union station 05:21:59 <pjpe> who would have guessed 05:32:53 <LordAro> mornings 05:34:22 <LordAro> KittenKoder: similarly, i am thinking of switching from ubuntu to debian - everyone seems to say it's better, and ubuntu has beenn annoying me for ages :L 05:34:49 <KittenKoder> Gentoo is really OpenSuse .... LOL 05:34:53 <KittenKoder> I keep forgetting that. 05:35:22 <KittenKoder> But yeah, Ubuntu just pissed me off, too unstable to use Blender 2.59 ..... 05:35:41 <KittenKoder> ... and the last update made my desktop glitch on everything. 05:35:45 <Rubidium> gentoo is opensuse? Really? In what sense? 05:36:08 <KittenKoder> I don't know .... 05:36:18 <LordAro> my reason for being annoyed with it is wireless drivers - it still fails to recognise my wireless-n card... 05:36:25 <KittenKoder> Right now I'm so scatter brained so ... no tech questions. 05:36:42 <KittenKoder> If it's a laptop card, don't do OpenSuse .... 05:36:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 05:37:01 <KittenKoder> Unless you know enough about Linux to do it manually. 05:37:15 <LordAro> nah, standard pci wireless card 05:37:17 <KittenKoder> PCMCIA-whatever cards are not natively supported. 05:37:28 <LordAro> and, no, i don't :) 05:37:33 <KittenKoder> LOL 05:37:58 <KittenKoder> Yeah, I have it on my laptop (now my big desktop to) and I just use USB for everything anyway. 05:38:38 <KittenKoder> One weird thing is the ATI drivers seem to actually work ... didn't have to tweak anything to get them working right with Suse. 05:39:25 <pjpe> that guy who did the us set has some absurdly nice stations not included in the grf 05:39:26 <pjpe> http://www.as-st.com/ttd/usa/stations.html 05:39:27 <pjpe> >:| 05:40:48 <LordAro> the reason you shouldn't convert from a photo (or similar) - the buildinjgs just don't quite look right 05:40:55 <KittenKoder> Those are nice .... 05:41:54 <pjpe> he's even got the justice league terminal 05:43:03 <LordAro> yeah, but look at 'Boston & Providence Station' 05:44:48 <andythenorth> look at toronto :P 05:44:48 <andythenorth> o 05:44:51 <pjpe> well that has it's own problems 05:44:52 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:44:52 <pjpe> it's big 05:44:53 <pjpe> red 05:44:54 <pjpe> long 05:44:54 <andythenorth> oz was nuts 05:44:55 <pjpe> kinda ugly 05:45:03 <pjpe> what happened to this guy 05:45:20 <LordAro> life, from my understanding 05:45:32 <Rubidium> we did give him the ponies he wanted quickly enough, I guess 05:45:35 <pjpe> fuckin life 05:45:40 <pjpe> that's always the reason 05:46:44 <andythenorth> afaik life happened to oz 05:46:47 <andythenorth> phd or such 05:46:51 <andythenorth> or marriage 05:46:56 <andythenorth> or job 05:46:56 <Rubidium> I don't remember there being grass near Boston's (South) station 05:47:01 <andythenorth> one of those things 05:47:37 <andythenorth> oz was before my time, as was lifeblood 05:48:10 <Rubidium> oh, and maybe also TTDPatch's demise? 05:48:34 <LordAro> is ttdpatch officially dead now then? 05:48:56 <andythenorth> oz != oztrans btw 05:51:33 <andythenorth> so how would the pathfinder ban some ships on rivers? 05:51:35 * andythenorth ponders 05:52:03 <andythenorth> Rubidium: could just make use of prop 14/15? http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles/Ships 05:52:09 <Rubidium> LordAro: last trunk commit: over 7 months ago, last beta release: almost 5 years ago, last stable release: almost 8 years ago. You tell me whether that's dead or not 05:52:35 <LordAro> pretty much then 05:52:51 <LordAro> why did they never release a new beta? 05:52:56 <andythenorth> to ban some ships from rivers, newgrf author sets FF for canal speed fraction? Hmm 05:53:14 <andythenorth> LordAro: maybe there's no 'they' ? 05:53:17 <Rubidium> andythenorth: yep, that's the idea. Although they can still go onto rivers... at appaling speeds 05:53:52 <andythenorth> Rubidium: I think it's valid gameplay to differentiate between ocean / rivers / canals 05:54:34 * andythenorth wonders - where are the water tile classes defined? 05:54:43 <planetmaker> var 0x60 05:54:50 * andythenorth explores src 05:55:07 <planetmaker> they're part of the map array when tile is waterclass 05:56:39 <andythenorth> water_cmd.cpp suggests me we have three water classes? 05:57:23 <andythenorth> WATER_CLASS_SEA, WATER_CLASS_CANAL, WATER_CLASS_RIVER 06:00:02 <LordAro> 19:53:34 LordAro hmmm... how can i find position of character in char array? google only shows stuff about c# and std::string... <-- i never did get a sufficient answer... :L - i should have said that i already have the character in question, i just need its position, surely there must be an easier way... 06:00:19 <Rubidium> LordAro: strchr 06:01:11 <LordAro> but i don't (necessarily) want the first instance...or the last 06:02:43 <LordAro> basically, i want the position of that character, and theni want to 'add 1' to it so i get the next character 06:02:51 <Rubidium> then either start again from the position of the last character + 1, or tell what you want on a slightly higher conceptual level 06:03:08 <Rubidium> because you might be trying to do something in a quite ineffecient manner 06:03:15 <LordAro> probably :) 06:07:20 *** bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has quit [Quit: ERORR] 06:07:23 * LordAro searches the logs to help him explain 06:07:24 *** bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has joined #openttd 06:09:24 <LordAro> this comment, and a few before, should explain: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/1313785838#1313785838 06:18:47 <LordAro> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=56330 <-- problems from server move? 06:23:56 <Rubidium> LordAro: http://pastebin.com/rmRXNmzc (untested) 06:24:29 <Rubidium> LordAro: unlikely; many people have signed up since the move 06:24:46 <LordAro> thanks for the code :) 06:24:58 <LordAro> many people sem to be having problems though 06:28:24 <Rubidium> you don't want to know the number of "undeliverable mail" notifications we get 06:28:49 <LordAro> :) from people giving fake email addresses? 06:29:41 <Rubidium> mistyping addresses 06:29:44 <Rubidium> full mailboxes 06:29:49 <Rubidium> unreachable servers 06:29:54 <LordAro> or that :L 06:30:22 <andythenorth> planetmaker: var 0x60 for land... But there's no equivalent for vehicles? 06:30:26 <andythenorth> I can't see one 06:30:36 <andythenorth> might be unwise anyway 06:30:54 <planetmaker> that's what you have for the ocean_speed_fraction and alike 06:30:57 <planetmaker> properties 06:31:21 * andythenorth wonders how that interacts with cb36 06:31:38 <planetmaker> :-) who knows 06:31:51 <planetmaker> probably those who can read code 06:31:56 <andythenorth> as prop 14 / 15 have *never* been supported by ottd afaik... 06:32:03 <andythenorth> ...it might be better to keep it that way? 06:32:10 <andythenorth> and use cb36 only to set speed 06:35:24 <planetmaker> they are already supported... 06:35:31 <planetmaker> but... hm... maybe 06:35:42 <planetmaker> conceptually that sounds better to me 06:35:53 <planetmaker> the cb approach 06:36:36 <andythenorth> I don't know how often cb36 is called for speed 06:36:45 <andythenorth> I use it in FISH 06:37:24 <planetmaker> not very often 06:37:50 <andythenorth> hmm 06:37:53 <planetmaker> iirc only in depots, in stations(?) and on railtype change 06:38:09 <andythenorth> it's definitely called in stations 06:38:56 <andythenorth> prop 14 / 15 are fractions, so maybe it's fine to use them 06:39:43 <andythenorth> I liked the idea of allowing ocean ships inland via canal 06:40:07 <andythenorth> but maybe that's not important 06:42:52 <LordAro> Rubidium: how would i use a SmallVector? (i'd grep source code, but... windows...) 06:44:54 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest6549 06:44:54 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:44:54 *** Guest6549 [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:44:54 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 06:45:24 <planetmaker> if it doesn't work: use the proper tools. If the proper tools don't work: use the proper OS 06:46:37 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest6550 06:46:37 *** Guest6550 [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:46:37 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:46:37 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 06:46:55 <LordAro> proper tools + proper OS = no internet 06:47:13 <Rubidium> virtualbox! 06:48:26 <planetmaker> lol... I'm sure any somewhat recent OS allows network usage 06:49:18 <LordAro> *no internet due to parents :/ 06:49:50 <planetmaker> eh :S 06:50:14 <planetmaker> but still, there's a couple people using linux in a virtual box environment 06:50:25 <planetmaker> quite successfully :-) 06:50:39 * andythenorth ponders upgrading FISH for rivers + cargo aging 06:50:45 <andythenorth> but....bbl 06:50:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 06:51:08 *** Kurosawy [~4faafd02@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 06:51:13 <Kurosawy> Hi 06:51:15 <LordAro> planetmaker: i can't see myself installing virtualbox on this machine either 06:51:26 *** Kurosawy [~4faafd02@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [] 06:51:40 <LordAro> a) no admin b) takes ages! 06:52:39 <planetmaker> I'm sure your parents would be interested in you doing "real work" instead of gaming. Try to sell it to them that way :-) 06:52:53 <planetmaker> it wouldn't be a lie either :-) 06:52:57 <LordAro> been trying for years :) 06:53:08 <LordAro> nothing works anymore :L 06:53:23 <planetmaker> shall I write them? ;-) 06:53:38 <LordAro> if you want :) 06:54:45 <LordAro> any argument i use just comes back with "you spend too much time on it" 06:54:58 <planetmaker> he :-) 06:55:35 <LordAro> re: virtualbox: it doesn't work on win2k :L 06:55:56 <pjpe> there's someone out there still using windows 2000? 06:56:00 <planetmaker> I could certainly write a few sentences which explain that it might be a good thing to allow you use linux :-) 06:56:04 <LordAro> oh yes 06:56:07 <pjpe> jesus 06:56:09 <planetmaker> I probably should not argue about time ;-) 06:56:16 <LordAro> :) 06:56:51 <LordAro> xp is 'too modern', plus my mum would flip if anything changed 06:57:14 <planetmaker> uhm... "too modern"? w2k is not supported anymore. It's becoming a security thread 06:57:17 <planetmaker> *threat 06:57:27 <LordAro> dad still uses 'classic' theme (start menu and stuff) on vista and 7 machines 06:57:33 <pjpe> hell windows xp is probably going to be dropped soon 06:58:22 <LordAro> planetmaker: thats what i keep telling him, but.. see the second part that message 06:58:35 <LordAro> mum isn't very good with technology 06:58:59 <planetmaker> :-) I have such parents, too. It's difficult to teach them new 'tricks' 06:59:34 *** KittenKoder [~kitten@174-24-255-9.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:59:35 <LordAro> "isn't very good" = takes 1/2 hour to explain how to use digital tv(!) and then she forgets the next day 07:01:01 <LordAro> its... frustrating 07:07:47 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 07:08:36 <Rubidium> LordAro: then you should be the admin on that box ;) 07:09:07 <pjpe> oh wait 07:09:13 <pjpe> windows 2000 passwords are easy to crack 07:09:15 <pjpe> apparently 07:09:24 <pjpe> just remembered 07:09:29 <LordAro> really? do tell :)# 07:09:55 <pjpe> http://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ie=UTF-8&ion=1&nord=1#hl=en&cp=16&gs_id=4&xhr=t&q=windows+2000+password+recovery&pf=p&sclient=psy&safe=off&nord=1&site=webhp&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=windows+2000+pas&aq=0&aqi=g5&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=f539a33a7cf2ea29&biw=990&bih=783&ion=1 07:10:35 <pjpe> i don't remember if they had some vulnerability that you can use or if they just didn't salt the hashes 07:10:39 <pjpe> but either way it should be easy 07:10:43 * LordAro laughs evilly :) 07:12:21 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 07:12:32 <LordAro> of course, i don't want to change the password, otherwise they'll know, fairly instantly 07:13:11 <pjpe> find out their password 07:13:11 <pjpe> go in 07:13:12 <Rubidium> just give your account admin privileges 07:13:14 <pjpe> change your account to admin 07:14:08 *** JVassie [~James@178.102.156.104] has joined #openttd 07:14:13 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:14:16 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:14:18 <LordAro> that... would be fairly undetectable :) 07:14:40 <Rubidium> http://www.askstudent.com/hacking/demonstration-of-windows-xp-privilege-escalation-exploit/ ? :) 07:15:05 <pjpe> there was some way to get in to windows 98 without logging in 07:15:08 <pjpe> through some weird use of 07:15:13 <pjpe> the help 07:15:17 <pjpe> then opening a file 07:15:23 <pjpe> then somehow launching explorer.exe? 07:16:22 <Rubidium> just hit escape in the login screen? 07:16:29 <pjpe> maybe that 07:16:38 <Rubidium> or remove the .pwl files from the dos prompt 07:16:59 <Rubidium> I wouldn't even dare to call it security by obscurity 07:18:06 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:18:15 *** Juo [~Juo@31.6.18.166] has joined #openttd 07:19:21 *** Juo [~Juo@31.6.18.166] has quit [] 07:19:29 <LordAro> Rubidium: i'll be sure to try the xp thing out at school, but it doesn't work here 07:19:47 <Rubidium> too bad 07:25:23 <LordAro> (from askstudent.com/hacking) video cam of alaska anyone? http://137.229.91.244/view/index.shtml :) 07:32:40 *** JVassie_ [~James@178.108.32.234] has joined #openttd 07:38:55 <andythenorth> Rubidium: are you going to mention rivers in forums? Or wait for people to figure it out? :) 07:39:02 *** JVassie [~James@178.102.156.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:40:30 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:40:34 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 07:40:37 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 07:43:31 <LordAro> Rubidium:i'm still not sure how i would use small vector (after your code) in the context of DrawString 07:50:53 <Rubidium> LordAro: see a SmallVector as an array 07:51:41 <Rubidium> which means you can do lines[i] 07:51:50 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:51:51 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:51:51 <LordAro> oh good :) 07:51:52 <Rubidium> lines.Length() gives you the length of the array 07:52:04 * LordAro worships 07:52:10 <LordAro> hai Alberth 07:52:15 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:52:21 <Alberth> hi LordAro, Rubidium 08:03:51 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DA2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:06:21 *** Shan [~aruser@184.82.232.34] has joined #openttd 08:12:21 <Terkhen> good morning 08:12:26 *** pikka [~yaaic@101.118.203.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:12:36 *** pikka [~yaaic@101.118.203.130] has joined #openttd 08:13:49 *** Shan [~aruser@184.82.232.34] has left #openttd [] 08:17:47 <Ammler> morning-ning 08:18:35 <planetmaker> moin Alberth, Ammler, Terkhen :-) 08:19:12 <Alberth> moin planetmaker, Terkhen, Ammler 08:19:17 *** pikka [~yaaic@101.118.203.130] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:22:03 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:29:42 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFD6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:33:39 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd57e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 08:35:12 *** JVassie_ [~James@178.108.32.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:38:08 <LordAro> Alberth: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=964961#p964961 <-- care to elaborate? 08:38:33 <Alberth> in which way? 08:39:32 <Alberth> ie what do you want to know? 08:44:14 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 08:48:20 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host178-232-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 08:48:44 <Wolf01> suuuunday morning 08:52:31 <peter1138> bit velvety 08:53:43 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 09:06:37 <LordAro> Alberth: "...done a little ground work already..." <-- i.e. what have you done? :) 09:06:47 *** pjpe [ae5f3e85@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:15:15 <Alberth> thought about the global structure of the program (what parts exist, what part does what, how does it make steps in time); thought about global data structure of the grid that describes the world (what can you put in each cell, how many bits do you need); created some temp sprites for the world earth surface and a ride (not near the quality of the real game, but good enough to start); made a dump of things you might want to have available in th 09:15:37 <Alberth> no real code yet, thus also no screen shots or moving parts :p 09:15:52 *** pikka [~yaaic@d114-78-22-253.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:16:34 <LordAro> shame :) 09:16:49 <LordAro> but... thanks for info 09:17:20 <Rubidium> oh, so like the window system about a year or so before it was done? ;) 09:18:07 <Alberth> Rubidium: but that was much smaller, and I had a working code base to work against 09:18:28 <Alberth> although the latter was a challenge in its own, sometimes :) 09:24:57 <Alberth> LordAro: there is literally nothing, so you first have to make a global picture of how to put it together, before you can start coding and have a chance of getting it working 09:25:08 <LordAro> makes sense 09:26:19 <Alberth> and the big question of course is, when have you done enough? :p 09:27:48 <LordAro> when you get bored/can't think of anything else? 09:29:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C4EF.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 09:30:35 <Alberth> only the latter :) when I get bored, I stop working on it, and continue another time. 09:38:30 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-046-254.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:41:11 <__ln__> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14605914 09:41:32 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:55:22 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08fb63.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:22:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:41:57 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 10:47:47 *** Lachie [whitey@creep.bur.st] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:49:35 *** dandan1 [~Adium@p4FEF92A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:52:25 *** Lachie [whitey@creep.bur.st] has joined #openttd 10:55:08 <Eddi|zuHause> what if you start from openttd and rip out the map array/replace it with a 3D array? 10:55:22 <Eddi|zuHause> at least you have a complete viewport/gui then 10:55:44 <Eddi|zuHause> and some rough game mechanics (tick progression, etc.) 10:56:07 <Eddi|zuHause> of course you inherit lots of the limitations as well 10:57:08 <Alberth> actual code is usually not the problem, the real problem is in the design 10:57:31 <Alberth> and of course you can borrow blobs of code :) 10:58:44 <Alberth> but tim wanted to do gui, so that's out of my hands :) probably good, as I already know how that works, so it'd be very boring 11:08:45 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:30:09 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 11:30:12 *** dandan1 [~Adium@p4FEF92A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #openttd [] 11:39:44 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 11:40:18 <Zuu> There actually is a flag for when an aircraft is in holding (AMED_HOLD), I just never se it being set :-p 11:42:59 <Zuu> In my first test runnig an aircraft between two airports, the aircraft have flag = 5 (dec) when it is in air (but also on ground at the runway-strip). value 5 (decimal) => AMED_SLOWTURN & AMED_NOSPDCLAMP 11:44:16 <andythenorth> frosch123: prop 14 / 15 would be the least hassle to use 11:44:28 <andythenorth> it's a question of ship set design... 11:44:39 <Rubidium> I think there's only one airport with holding pattern 11:44:58 <andythenorth> it would be interesting to keep ocean ships out of rivers by setting their speed very low 11:45:24 <andythenorth> but this would be annoying when building a canal between pieces of sea 11:46:16 <andythenorth> otoh, to connect two pieces of sea, just lower land to sea level - good enough solution 11:46:36 <Zuu> Hmm, on a faster plane it actually uses the holding state :-s 11:46:59 <andythenorth> could the values of prop 14 / 15 be shown in buy menu please? 11:47:05 <Zuu> Rubidium: How do you mean only one airport? 11:49:01 <Zuu> Aircrafts circle all airport types. Or do you mean that internally one airport have the circle-blocks coded specially as holding pattern? 11:49:14 <Rubidium> only the city airport has AMED_HOLD 11:50:11 <Zuu> Oh, then that's why my later test with a city airport worked but not with the small airport. 11:50:15 <Eddi|zuHause> it was the only one updated with sensible holding patterns, afair 11:52:34 <Zuu> So.. I might end up having to dig into the state machines of all other airports than the city ariport :-) 11:52:35 <Alberth> andythenorth: but if a ship is not supposed to travel a canal, then it being slow would be fine imo 11:52:52 <andythenorth> I think it's fine too 11:52:57 <andythenorth> I was thinking about ship canals 11:53:00 <andythenorth> but screw that :P 11:53:08 <Alberth> Zuu: to find what 11:53:29 <Zuu> I want to implement Aircraft::IsInHolding and export that to AIs. 11:53:42 <Rubidium> just use AMED_HOLD ;) 11:53:52 <Rubidium> and give the other airports proper holding circles as well 11:54:01 <Rubidium> s/circles/patterns/ 11:54:06 <Zuu> Indeed :-) 11:54:31 <Zuu> At least the state machine blocks are all commented. 11:55:05 <Alberth> hmm, I am trying to extract holding pattern out of airports :( 11:55:19 <Zuu> It might as well be possible to via code enter the FTA at all entry points and iterate until you find wher it can enter landing. 11:55:39 *** HandsofFate [~bwochinsk@75-9-109-56.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 11:55:39 <Zuu> Alberth: You too? 11:56:08 <blathijs> Hmm, did automatic servicing get disabled in recent versions or something? 11:56:22 <andythenorth> blathijs: usually a pathfinder issue 11:56:24 <andythenorth> trains? 11:56:26 <Alberth> entry points go to holding patterns before finding landing spots 11:56:47 <blathijs> While testing my new 1.1.2 Debian package, I got carried away with actually playing the game again, but trains are not getting serviced it eems 11:56:50 <blathijs> andythenorth: yup 11:57:02 <andythenorth> blathijs: you're probably using PBS signals 11:57:13 <andythenorth> try putting a PBS signal on the tile before the depot entrance 11:57:16 <andythenorth> usually helps 11:57:27 <Rubidium> blathijs: screenshot? 11:57:28 <blathijs> andythenorth: I did that 11:57:29 <andythenorth> otherwise you just have to use forced 'goto depot' orders 11:57:30 <Alberth> s/putting/removing/ ! 11:57:36 <andythenorth> or turn off breakdowns 11:57:41 <blathijs> Ah, removing 11:57:42 <Zuu> Alberth: Before finding out about the AMED_HOLD flag, I though that I would have to iterate through the FTA to find out the holding pattern (unless adding a counter variable) 11:57:42 <blathijs> hmm 11:57:44 *** Lachie [whitey@creep.bur.st] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:57:57 <Alberth> and turn on servicing even if breakdowns enabled 11:58:25 * andythenorth used forced serving orders for a bit, then got bored and disabled breakdowns 11:58:32 <Alberth> *disabled, even 11:58:38 <andythenorth> RVs have the same issue 11:58:51 <andythenorth> and servicing can result in stuck ships as well 11:59:37 <Alberth> Zuu: holding pattern is not more than a few points in the sky that point to each other, where the landing entry starts at one (or more) of those points if the aircraft can claim the block with the runway 11:59:42 * andythenorth wonders where the frac column is in opengfx 11:59:44 <Rubidium> blathijs: vehicles have a maximum pathfinder distance to depot for considering. Going through a path signal the wrong way is usually higher than the penalty you may have to go to the depot 12:00:22 <blathijs> Rubidium: Ah, right 12:00:33 <blathijs> Rubidium: Placing some extra depots might help as well, then 12:00:46 <LordAro> feature request: configurable holding patterns :) 12:01:04 <Alberth> Zuu: extracting holding pattern as in moving it out of the airport state machine 12:01:06 <Zuu> Alberth: Yes, and I've found out that those points are commented very well in airport_movement.h. 12:01:26 <Zuu> Oh, I see. 12:01:43 <Rubidium> actually, the idea of holding patterns is that planes come in high and fast and descent and slow down into the holding pattern 12:01:57 <blathijs> Ok, removing the path signals as well as placing extra depots seem to have helped 12:02:00 <blathijs> thanks 12:02:25 <Alberth> that saves us the 5th bug report about it :) 12:02:58 <andythenorth> removing the path signal? :o 12:03:15 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-206-151.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:03:21 * andythenorth usually has to add them 12:03:36 <Alberth> yep, adding blocks in front of depots can only cause trouble 12:03:39 <andythenorth> hmm 12:03:51 <andythenorth> I usually have trains reserving a path past the depot 12:03:55 <Rubidium> I think andy means another location 12:04:13 <andythenorth> without screenshots, this is probably a silly conversation :) 12:04:37 <Rubidium> you have precisely in front of the depot: so one straight track with signal in front of the depot, or as close as possible to the junction to the depot 12:04:49 <Rubidium> the former is 'wrong', the latter is 'good' 12:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that happens when the signal is too far before the switch to depot. once the path is reserved, it cannot be changed anymore 12:05:54 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22781 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Group global variables temporarily used during GRF loading into a struct. 12:06:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22782 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: Add GrfProcessingState::ClearDataForNextFile() to clear temporary data at a specific spot, esp. clear 'data_blocks' now. 12:06:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22783 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h): -Fix: Move Action 1 references from GRFFile to GrfProcessingState, and reset them after each loading stage. 12:07:16 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22784 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h): -Fix: Move Action 2 references from GRFFile to GrfProcessingState, and reset them after each loading stage. 12:08:11 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:719e:999a:c7dd:4f2a] has joined #openttd 12:08:15 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:08:55 *** Lachie [whitey@creep.bur.st] has joined #openttd 12:10:40 *** JVassie [~James@genkt-049-070.t-mobile.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:11:37 <Zuu> Hmm, aircrafts that take off from the country airport visit one of the blocks that are used also ni the holding pattern :-) 12:12:13 <Zuu> Resulting in an aircraft that has AMED_HOLD when flying in open air.. 12:13:16 <Zuu> But maybe I should wait and let Alberth solve the issue :-D 12:14:03 <Alberth> which block is that? after block 9 the aircraft leaves 12:14:14 <Zuu> I would guess #17 12:15:12 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:15:54 <Zuu> It get AMED_HOLD just when it ends taking off. (I've added AMED_HOLD to 15, 16, 17 and 18) 12:16:34 <Alberth> that seems right, but how do you reach #17 at take off? 12:17:20 <Zuu> hmm, I now start to believe it gets the AMED_HOLD flag from the other airport insetad. 12:17:49 <Zuu> Eg. the entry point of an airport should not have the hold flag, or perhaps the aircraft get this flag when heading to the airport. 12:19:05 <Alberth> makes somewhat sense. Unfortunately, I don't yet know exactly when which flag gets applied where 12:19:28 * andythenorth ponders sugar 12:20:21 * Zuu pounders coffe 12:21:32 <Alberth> coffee with sugar is more drinkable than sugar with coffee 12:22:33 <Rubidium> in any case it's tasting awful 12:23:37 * Alberth nods 12:23:37 <Zuu> Indeed, better just keep the coffee black or add some milk 12:23:50 <planetmaker> black is beautiful and tasty ;-) 12:32:01 <Ammler> I like to have one blob of milk just for the color :-) 12:32:18 <Zuu> I do that sometimes too 12:33:00 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:05 <Ammler> but please no sugar :-) 12:36:50 <andythenorth> FIRS has sugar cane and sugar beet 12:36:58 <andythenorth> which are one cargo with a string swapped in tropic 12:37:01 <andythenorth> which is...messy 12:37:18 <andythenorth> should I (a) make it two cargos (they need to be handled differently by vehicles anyway) 12:37:24 <andythenorth> or (b) make it 'Raw Sugar' 12:38:17 <planetmaker> Why is it messy? 12:38:32 <andythenorth> it's an arse to maintain 12:38:40 <andythenorth> and the vehicle support is silly 12:38:48 <andythenorth> sugar cane is handled quite differently to sugar beet 12:38:59 <andythenorth> realism is not at all important, except when it is 12:39:53 <Rubidium> just make them different cargos 12:40:08 <andythenorth> now would be a good time to do that 12:40:23 <Rubidium> possibly mostly the same, so sharing the ID, and enabled based on the climate 12:40:35 <andythenorth> but with different label 12:40:49 <Rubidium> same internal ID, not the label ofcourse 12:40:53 <andythenorth> currently they both share RSGR 12:42:00 <planetmaker> urgs... different cargos. Why? Just another hassle for vehicles 12:42:46 <planetmaker> Do they really need different vehicle support? 12:43:11 <andythenorth> do we really need any of this? :P 12:44:01 <andythenorth> We break ECS labels currently, and offer vehicle set author no way out of it other than to detect FIRS and offer climate specific vehicles 12:44:36 <andythenorth> which is wrong 12:44:50 <planetmaker> hm, yes 12:45:07 <planetmaker> ok, go right ahead then. Somewhat convinced 12:45:38 <Hirundo> Does ECS have RSGR too? (not acc wiki) 12:45:58 <Hirundo> "RSGR Raw Sugar 0010 Bulk FIRS Sugar cane in tropic, sugar beet in other climates " 12:46:16 <andythenorth> I mean ECS as MB means ECS (ish) 12:46:38 <Hirundo> MB ECS has only one cargo type (yet): vapor 12:46:44 <andythenorth> hmm 12:46:46 <andythenorth> well 12:46:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22785 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: rename IsGeneratingWorld to HasModalProgress 12:46:56 * andythenorth goes back to drawing 12:47:15 <frosch123> andythenorth: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/display_canal_ocean_speed.diff 12:47:24 * andythenorth stops drawing :P 12:47:26 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22786 /trunk/src/ (genworld.cpp genworld.h genworld_gui.cpp gfx.cpp openttd.cpp): -Codechange: rename genworld mutices to model_progress mutices 12:47:27 <frosch123> displays the info in purchase screen 12:47:34 <frosch123> the vehicle gui always shows the current limit 12:47:44 <frosch123> the info is currently not available to ais 12:47:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22787 /trunk/src/ (genworld.h genworld_gui.cpp gfx.cpp): -Codechange: rename genworld redraw constant 12:48:07 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:48:14 <frosch123> exposing the waterclass to cb36 in the purchase list likely means trouble 12:48:30 <frosch123> there is only one sort-order in the purchase list for speed 12:48:34 <andythenorth> ok 12:48:37 <frosch123> not per ocean/canal 12:48:47 <andythenorth> setting a prop is easier than footling with varaction 2 anyway 12:48:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22788 /trunk/ (15 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: move modal progress related functions and variables to progress.cpp/h 12:49:16 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22789 /trunk/src/ (genworld.cpp genworld_gui.cpp window_type.h): -Codechange: rename generation window class to modal progress 12:49:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22790 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_config.cpp newgrf_config.h): -Codechange: add callback for when NewGRF scanning is complete 12:50:07 <andythenorth> sugar cane moves like this, sugar beet less so: http://www.visualphotos.com/image/2x3416606/sugar_cane_loaded_on_a_semi_truck_nadi_fiji 12:50:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22791 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Codechange: use callback for scanning from the NewGRF window 12:50:37 <andythenorth> also this: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_TXr5uGM_ox8/SRYN-TeNfFI/AAAAAAAAD6A/k0PNUPEF9tY/s400/cane+hauler.JPG 12:50:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22792 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Codechange: use scan callback for initial NewGRF scanning 12:51:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22793 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove callback default to make clear they are not forgotten 12:51:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22794 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Codechange: let window drawing determine which windows may be drawn when a modal progress is busy 12:51:55 <andythenorth> frosch123: does it only display if prop 14 & 15 are set? 12:52:10 <andythenorth> that would make sense... 12:52:10 <frosch123> only when the values are different 12:52:13 <andythenorth> k 12:52:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22795 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Codechange: load the intro game the first time without NewGRFs 12:53:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22796 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp: -Codechange: run the NewGRF scanning in a separate thread 12:53:06 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 12:53:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22797 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add: progress bar for scanning NewGRFs 12:53:25 <planetmaker> that's actually a feature ;-) 12:53:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22798 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Change: jump immediately to the next mode after scanning (if needed) 12:53:42 <frosch123> poor eddi gets totally spammed with commit messages :p 12:53:52 <andythenorth> hmm 12:54:00 <planetmaker> hu, @ frosch123? 12:54:13 <andythenorth> so it's incumbent on me as newgrf author not to set prop 14 as FF 12:54:16 <LordAro> rubidium: @r22795 - does that mean any savegame can be loaded, regardless of newgrfs? 12:54:16 <frosch123> planetmaker: he complained yesterday, that there are too many commits this weekend 12:54:25 <planetmaker> oh 12:54:29 <andythenorth> if ship prop 14 is FF we shall all have a lot of fun bug reports 12:54:34 <planetmaker> poor guy. 12:54:58 <LordAro> planetmaker: ^ i was thinkng the exact same thing :) 12:55:12 <frosch123> andythenorth: i wonder whether prop 14/15 make actually any sense 12:55:28 <andythenorth> frosch123: / anyone - would it make sense to floor ship speed at 1mph irrespective of prop 14 12:55:29 <frosch123> is there any case were you would not set them to basically "yes" or "no"? 12:55:37 <andythenorth> yes 12:55:54 <andythenorth> quite plausible that speed might vary 12:56:08 <frosch123> ok, you are the english one :) 12:56:12 <andythenorth> depends on hull design 12:56:30 <frosch123> what do you mean with "floor ship speed"? 12:56:45 <andythenorth> max(speed,1) 12:56:57 <frosch123> well, i hope that is already done :p 12:57:00 <andythenorth> setting speed to 0mph results in stuck ships and no way to fix it 12:57:05 <andythenorth> it isn't done 12:57:06 <andythenorth> :P 12:57:29 <Rubidium> LordAro: no, if it were with NewGRFs it will still be horribly broken 12:57:37 <andythenorth> anyway - if you set boats to 'rivers only' they will be useless where rivers turn into lakes 12:57:54 <andythenorth> already the griefing opportunities for ships will be quite significant 12:58:08 <andythenorth> (those are unrelated points) 12:58:10 <planetmaker> :-) building canal on the sea... lovely 12:58:30 <andythenorth> harder now that build-while-paused is gone 12:58:42 <planetmaker> it's not gone 12:58:48 <planetmaker> it's just a setting 12:58:53 <planetmaker> not a cheat 12:58:59 <andythenorth> :) 12:59:50 <Zuu> a setting that can now be set to allow everything when paused 13:08:38 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 13:10:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22799 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r22792): compile failure when there is no networking support 13:14:05 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:19:08 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22800 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp: -Fix (r22796): don't run the scanning threaded when there is no reason to do so (no UI to update) 13:19:37 <LordAro> yay! r22.8k :) 13:20:43 <Rubidium> we should do a bananas download party every 10M, that'd be much more parties 13:20:55 <Rubidium> ~34.8M at the moment 13:22:09 <LordAro> mingw is soooo slow... 13:23:42 <andythenorth> please please can we have 1 or 2 tile locks? 13:23:46 <andythenorth> 1 tile might be a bit easy 13:23:56 <andythenorth> 2 tile could be...interesting 13:24:03 <andythenorth> would it cause epic savegame breakage? 13:24:32 <LordAro> not if the original lock was kept :) 13:28:13 <andythenorth> also - can lock be allowed to overbuild river, without requiring bulldozer 13:30:31 * andythenorth thinks of an extension to station names 13:30:42 <andythenorth> do we have 'lakeside' and 'riverside' and 'waterside'? 13:30:57 <frosch123> andythenorth: ships do not drive upwards 50% slopes 13:31:13 <andythenorth> meh 13:31:27 <andythenorth> realism is invoked when it suits :P 13:31:58 <frosch123> build winding canals if you really have to use ships in such landscape :p 13:32:20 <frosch123> mind that ships do not change speed in locks 13:32:32 <appe> there is something special with playing openttd whilst riding a train. 13:32:34 <andythenorth> it basically renders rivers useless without a lot of money in the bank 13:32:35 <frosch123> so if you can pass a hill as if there is nothing, ships are totally imbalanced 13:33:27 <andythenorth> the need to canalise most of a river renders them kind of pointless, which is sad 13:33:46 <andythenorth> on the plus side, the game is now compliant with the original image of temperate climate in new game menu 13:35:42 <Hirundo> balance-wise, canals should be the one and only long-range bulk transportation system in the early game 13:36:20 <andythenorth> "navigable rivers + coastal shipping" would be a more accurate claim :P 13:36:41 <andythenorth> or is that too easy wrt building infrastructure? 13:36:42 <Hirundo> Even if you'd need to invest a 100-200k GBP to build a few locks, it's still pretty awesome, methinks 13:36:47 <Hirundo> as it has unlimited capacity 13:37:35 <Hirundo> If you need 100 horse carriages to do the same, the running cost of those adds up pretty quickly 13:38:20 * Hirundo ponders starting the next FIRS game early 13:38:30 <frosch123> well, maybe riverslopes should be passable unless there are two in a row or so? 13:39:55 <Hirundo> that'd get confusing fairly quickly, I think 13:40:04 <frosch123> yeah :( 13:40:20 <Hirundo> rather, we should have newgrf ship ports that don't require so much terraforming and canal-building 13:48:41 <andythenorth> frosch123: a 2 tile lock instead of 3 tiles would be sufficient 13:48:45 <andythenorth> it can still be expensive 13:48:54 <andythenorth> and you wouldn't be able to go up long slopes with them 13:48:59 <andythenorth> even though that's unrealistic :P 13:52:17 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/river_uncanalised.png 13:52:20 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/river_canalised.png 13:53:06 <andythenorth> looks...great no? 13:53:18 <andythenorth> for definitions where 'great' == 'sucks' :P 13:54:34 <__ln__> the water doesn't clearly show slopes 13:54:50 <andythenorth> I would put money on the docks being 3 tiles long for ttdp reasons 13:55:19 <andythenorth> there is no good gameplay reason for it 14:01:51 <frosch123> sure there is 14:01:55 <frosch123> and you should use longer rivers 14:03:40 <Hirundo> Doing shipping on such rivers isn't 'realistic' anyways 14:05:08 <frosch123> yeah, not every river is suitable for transportation 14:05:19 <frosch123> and i think that is completely fine 14:06:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DA2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:07:17 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 14:08:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DA2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:10:28 * andythenorth ponders making FIRS locate industries near to rivers 14:11:27 <michi_cc> The river width (in tiles) could be gradually increased toward the sink, gives a more "realistic" look and better shipping opportunities. 14:11:31 <andythenorth> also - how to get longer rivers? 14:13:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r22801 /trunk/src/ (pathfinder/yapf/yapf_ship.cpp ship.h ship_cmd.cpp): -Feature: [YAPF] Take canal/ocean speed fraction of ships into account. 14:19:44 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/recycling_plant_mud.png 14:19:50 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/recycling_plant_concrete.png 14:19:54 <andythenorth> votes please ^^ 14:20:38 <LordAro> no. 2 14:21:27 <__ln__> agreed, number 2 seems like a more concrete option 14:22:01 <lugo> i think no.2 is the more solid choice 14:22:37 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 14:23:29 <Rubidium> maybe some muddy tracks on #2? 14:23:33 <andythenorth> yeah 14:23:38 <andythenorth> probably 14:25:11 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-236-196.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:40:16 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 14:45:37 *** JVassie [~James@genkt-049-070.t-mobile.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:47:36 *** ar3kaw [~ident@83.22.200.127] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:52 *** ar3k [~ident@ebk127.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 14:47:54 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 14:55:55 * andythenorth will have to stop avoiding nml soon :P 14:59:09 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22802 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r22781): Coding style. 14:59:54 <Ammler> hehe, do your "slaves" code too bad? 15:10:14 *** HandsofFate [~bwochinsk@75-9-109-56.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:11:39 *** Theos_ [~Theos@ool-4576c1d9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #openttd 15:12:05 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:12:52 *** Theos_ [~Theos@ool-4576c1d9.dyn.optonline.net] has left #openttd [] 15:17:15 *** Theos [~Theos@ool-4576c1d9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #openttd 15:26:18 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-236-196.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:39 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:55 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:31:44 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-236-196.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:48:29 *** JVassie [~James@31.97.14.92] has joined #openttd 16:00:50 <Alberth> he's running out of 'please code this for me' coupons ;) 16:01:05 <planetmaker> :-P 16:01:54 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFD6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:02:18 <fjb> Moin 16:02:55 <andythenorth> there are coupons? 16:02:58 <andythenorth> :o 16:05:01 <planetmaker> yup. They're called cookies and cake 16:06:38 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFD6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:28 <SmatZ> :) 16:11:55 *** alluke [~591b0bad@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 16:25:57 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:37:07 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFD6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:48:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22803 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix (r22796): clicking should not work either when hiding windows 16:56:08 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFD6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:56:48 *** douknoukem [~KEM@78.166.118.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:19 *** douknoukem [~KEM@78.166.118.29] has joined #openttd 17:00:46 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.73.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:04:10 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:08:30 *** KouDy2 [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:09:57 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:13:42 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> exposing the waterclass to cb36 in the purchase list likely means trouble <-- water class should be handled the same way as tracktype, maybe. 17:36:21 <planetmaker> that's what I thought, too 17:36:31 <planetmaker> it is a tracktype after all of some sorts 17:36:41 <planetmaker> but... the *speed_fraction is there now... 17:36:57 <planetmaker> and of course these ideas only come up when the deed is done ;-) 17:37:11 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yup, thus exposing it in the purchase list is as hard as exposing the tracktype 17:39:05 <frosch123> stating from issues like what to report when no depot is at hand (available vehicle list, newspaper, engine preview), to pure coding issues like passing a depottile to tones of Engine member functions which currently know nothing about depots 17:39:43 <frosch123> and the list continues with pathfinder issues, noai issues ,... 17:40:30 <frosch123> i guess doing r22801 with cb36 is kind of impossible 17:42:36 <andythenorth> leave it be :P 17:42:48 <andythenorth> prop 14/15 are sufficient 17:43:32 <andythenorth> there are bigger fish to fry 17:43:55 *** pikka [~yaaic@d114-78-22-253.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:44:47 * andythenorth finally got around to improving sugar refinery: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=148418 17:45:30 <alluke> well done 17:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22804 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 17:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: english_US - 3 changes by Rubidium 17:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 3 changes by glx 17:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 3 changes by planetmaker 17:45:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 13 changes by vytulis7 17:45:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: persian - 182 changes by Peymanpn 17:52:11 *** pjpe [ae5f3e85@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:04:05 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 18:12:18 <blathijs> Damn, I forgot how addictive OpenTTD was 18:12:43 <blathijs> I just wanted to test my Debian package to see if it ran succesfully, but I've been playing all day... 18:12:44 <Eddi|zuHause> haha :) 18:12:58 * planetmaker hugs blathijs :-) 18:13:28 <planetmaker> at least you now know (again) why you're still in this channel :-P 18:14:17 <blathijs> indeed 18:14:18 * andythenorth ponders 18:14:34 <blathijs> Hadn't really played OpenTTD for a few years, I think 18:14:36 <andythenorth> trying to locate industries near rivers is likely to lead to long map gen times :( 18:14:38 <blathijs> so much has changed :-) 18:16:22 <Hirundo> andythenorth: near rivers or near water? 18:16:27 <andythenorth> near rivers 18:16:36 <Rubidium> blathijs: that at least proves it works in some cases 18:16:58 <Hirundo> afaik (old?) ECS shipyard needed placement in towns and near water 18:17:07 <Hirundo> that industry was often not placed at all :) 18:17:27 <Hirundo> near rivers may not work when river generation is not enabled 18:17:37 <andythenorth> indeed 18:17:47 <andythenorth> Rubidium: the river generator gets awesome results on a flat landscape 18:17:57 <andythenorth> proper river systems with tributaries etc 18:19:02 *** HandsofFate [~bwochinsk@75-9-109-56.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 18:19:32 <planetmaker> Hirundo: FIRS fishing harbours also need town vicinity + water. But it works 18:20:08 <planetmaker> andythenorth: wrt placement of water grain mills: I'd not force that explicitly. E.g. such industries always also should have layouts which work w/o river requirements as they can't be guarateed to be present 18:20:15 *** JVassie_ [~James@31.97.74.184] has joined #openttd 18:20:22 <planetmaker> but if there are such layouts, they'll spawn in swampy conditions 18:20:51 <Hirundo> ship yards needed to be in a specific town zone IIRC, how does it work for harbours? 18:21:46 <planetmaker> 16 tiles within town centre or so 18:21:57 <planetmaker> no zoning 18:22:22 *** Ackmey [~chatzilla@99.192.50.222] has joined #openttd 18:22:23 <planetmaker> hm.. or 56. Dunno anymore. Some arbitrary number 18:22:59 <Ackmey> Hey all, how do I get my airport to take goods from the refinery that's next to it? 18:23:35 <Eddi|zuHause> by sending a vehicle that loads them 18:24:06 <Ackmey> So I have to have an oil truck move back and forth between the airport and the refinery? 18:24:23 <Eddi|zuHause> oil trucks won't load goods 18:24:38 <Alberth> if the airport is not in the range of the refinery, yes 18:24:39 <Ackmey> transport truck or w/e, rather 18:24:50 <Ackmey> The airport is in range though, they're right next to each other 18:24:55 <Ackmey> one tile away 18:25:55 <Ackmey> It accepts oil for the refinery 18:25:57 *** JVassie [~James@31.97.14.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:26:07 <Ackmey> But can't take goods 18:26:24 <Eddi|zuHause> if you don't have anything that loads goods, no goods will appear 18:27:29 <Eddi|zuHause> (also, if you have no oil, no goods will appear either) 18:28:54 <Ackmey> I do have oil 18:29:29 <planetmaker> delivered to it? 18:29:51 <LordAro> in confusing cases such as this, a savegame is usually requested 18:30:58 <Ackmey> Yes it's getting oil and producing goods but nothing happens to the goods 18:31:50 <planetmaker> then just start to pick them up from a station which has the refinery in its catchment area 18:31:58 *** JVassie_ [~James@31.97.74.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:32:17 <Ackmey> Yeah I managed to get a truck to pick the goods up 18:32:20 <andythenorth> so 18:32:23 <Ackmey> but I need to get them to the airport 18:32:32 <andythenorth> how to get a map with some steep mountains + some flat plains? 18:32:39 <andythenorth> variety distribution doesn't do that 18:32:50 <andythenorth> variety distribution is a bit bollocks in my experience :P 18:32:52 <LordAro> Ackmey: transfer and leave empty 18:33:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Ackmey: so what's supposed to happen with them at the airport'? 18:33:43 <Ackmey> The truck only interfaces with truck stops though so all I can do now is move my goods from one stop to the next 18:33:53 <Ackmey> and at the airport a refitted plane would pick them up and deliver to a city 18:34:09 <Eddi|zuHause> so where is your refitted plane now? 18:34:25 <Ackmey> In the airport 18:34:34 <Ackmey> Okay I had the truck on deliver instead of transfer 18:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> and you are sure it is refitted? 18:34:39 <Ackmey> don't know what the difference is 18:35:02 <Ackmey> Yep plane gives me capacity in goods 18:36:09 <Ackmey> so I have a bunch of goods in a truck station right next to the airport. 18:36:36 <planetmaker> is it the same station? 18:36:47 <planetmaker> not two separate ones? 18:36:52 <LordAro> savegame... 18:36:57 <Ackmey> two seperate ones 18:37:03 <Ackmey> I'll upload my savegame somewhere 18:37:25 <andythenorth> :) http://tt-foundry.com/misc/awesome_rivers.png 18:38:38 <Ackmey> Where does the game save to by default? 18:39:05 <Ackmey> NVM 18:39:06 <planetmaker> ~/Documents/OpenTTD/save 18:39:13 <planetmaker> but might be unhelpful 18:39:43 <Ackmey> http://www.2shared.com/file/NH9cPslQ/Suhattan_Transport_27th_Jun_19.html 18:39:53 <Ackmey> My first game, don't judge me harshly :P 18:39:56 <Ackmey> Area is 18:40:10 <Ackmey> Plunbourne 18:40:12 <Ackmey> in the east 18:41:41 * andythenorth ponders new station name suffixes 18:41:50 <andythenorth> "...Falls" 18:41:55 <andythenorth> "....Riverside" 18:42:03 <andythenorth> "...Bridge" 18:42:17 <andythenorth> "...Waterside" 18:44:17 <pjpe> Downs 18:44:37 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.73.65] has joined #openttd 18:44:39 <andythenorth> not so river related :P 18:44:49 <planetmaker> Creak 18:44:56 <andythenorth> Swamp 18:45:03 <andythenorth> Ford 18:45:05 <planetmaker> Gorge 18:45:10 <andythenorth> Springs 18:45:15 <planetmaker> Wells 18:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause> confluence 18:45:32 <andythenorth> Watersmeet 18:45:48 <planetmaker> Mouth 18:45:51 <andythenorth> -on-the-water 18:45:52 <Eddi|zuHause> (compare: Koblenz) 18:46:07 <andythenorth> if only irc was code :P 18:46:13 <LordAro> Ackmey: i do not understand why you have put a road vehicle route in. all you need is a plane (refitted to goods) going from the airport to another 18:46:25 <Ackmey> That's what I was doing before 18:46:35 <Ackmey> It wasn't taking goods 18:47:17 <LordAro> oh, and to transfer goods they need to be the same station (no tile in between) 18:47:43 <LordAro> currently, your road vehicle route is taking all the goods 18:48:04 <Ackmey> But before I put the road route in 18:48:10 <Ackmey> It didn't work 18:48:42 <LordAro> got your problem: with the plane, Plunbourne Cross Airport order is set to 'unload and leave empty' 18:49:03 <andythenorth> "...Ferry" 18:49:19 <Ackmey> Gahhh stupid me 18:49:21 <Ackmey> Thanks 18:49:34 <andythenorth> "...Crossing" 18:49:43 <Ackmey> Can I destroy all the truck stuff? 18:50:15 <Chrill> yes! 18:50:27 <Chrill> DESTROY ALL THE STUFF! 18:50:39 <LordAro> Ackmey: regarding your orders in general: you don't need to add 'unload and take cargo' stuff - usually, you only need those for more complex routes 18:50:47 <andythenorth> hmm 18:50:50 <andythenorth> named rivers? 18:50:54 <LordAro> the vehicles can usually work out when to load/unload by themselves 18:51:03 <LordAro> andythenorth: use signs :P 18:51:12 <andythenorth> why can't the game use signs for me? 18:51:13 <Ackmey> so I can just point them to destinations and let them do it? 18:51:15 *** pikka [~yaaic@d114-78-22-253.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 18:51:19 <andythenorth> quack 18:51:22 <LordAro> Ackmey: yes :) 18:51:24 <andythenorth> oh wrong animal :P 18:51:35 <Ackmey> Okay :D 18:51:38 <andythenorth> can an AI find rivers? 18:51:44 * andythenorth ponders river-naming-AI 18:51:45 <Ackmey> Problem though, the airplane is still not picking up any goods 18:52:23 <Prof_Frink> andythenorth: Named rivers, and towns named after said rivers? 18:52:31 <planetmaker> andythenorth: river naming is pointless as long as they don't restore themselves 18:52:31 <andythenorth> omg, imagine 18:52:34 <andythenorth> luxury 18:52:42 <LordAro> Ackmey: you've destroyed the road stations? 18:52:51 <andythenorth> planetmaker: it bothers you they don't restore themselves? 18:52:57 <planetmaker> GermanTowns are (often) named after rivers. Also in OpenTTD ;-) 18:53:42 <planetmaker> andythenorth: bother is stronger than it is. But it's on my "nice-to-have" list ;-) 18:53:53 <planetmaker> sea also restores itself 18:54:10 <andythenorth> you'd need to leave the tile marked as river tile? no matter what else happened to it? 18:54:17 <andythenorth> meanwhile... 18:54:20 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/awesome_rivers_2.png 18:54:35 <andythenorth> ^ if I connect those rivers, I can cross half the map by inland water 18:54:47 <planetmaker> there you go ;-) 18:54:52 <alluke> sounds fun 18:54:53 <andythenorth> although I'll have to destroy most of them to become canals :P 18:54:55 <LordAro> planetmaker: wouldn't be too difficult to have? just run the pathfinder with the 2 separated bits of river 18:55:00 <planetmaker> I usually can cross my maps by water anyway :-P 18:55:25 <planetmaker> LordAro: yes and no... the river would need to know it has been severed 18:55:25 <andythenorth> I might change the style of map I use 18:55:45 <Ackmey> LordAro: It works now 18:55:48 <Ackmey> thanks for the help :) 18:56:01 <planetmaker> but I found out that I should use medium variety distribution rather than very high. 18:56:04 <planetmaker> better rivers ;-) 18:56:08 <LordAro> planetmaker: surely the game can find out whattile was under the bulldozer? 18:56:12 <LordAro> Ackmey: no problem 18:56:15 <LordAro> :) 18:56:18 <planetmaker> LordAro: currently: not 18:56:26 <planetmaker> it's not stored, the tile class is set to normal land 18:56:28 <LordAro> odd :) 18:56:40 <planetmaker> that#s also done at sea. But sea just floods. 18:56:50 <LordAro> i would've thought it would :) 18:57:04 <planetmaker> thus what could maybe be a solution is to check each river tile to have a sea connection... but then the lakes don't work anymore 18:57:09 <andythenorth> :o 18:57:17 <planetmaker> thus there's an odditiy, too to be solved 18:57:18 <andythenorth> with medium variety distribution I get almost no rivers 18:57:23 <LordAro> but again, a check to see what's under the tile before it's destroyed? 18:57:28 <andythenorth> try variety distribution off - it's a crappy thing anyway 18:57:57 <andythenorth> could rivers actually be entities? 18:57:58 <planetmaker> off? No... 18:58:00 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22805 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: move use of magic number for version checking to more logical location 18:58:08 <andythenorth> currently we speak of rivers, but we mean river tiles 18:58:20 <planetmaker> indeed 18:58:31 *** KouDy2 [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:58:43 <planetmaker> hm... I still have to get used to the newgrf scan window :-) 18:58:48 <andythenorth> can a river actually be an entity? it has a source during map gen 18:59:07 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:00:26 *** Ackmey [~chatzilla@99.192.50.222] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0/20110811165603]] 19:01:49 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFDEDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:02:36 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/rivers.png <-- andy, how does medium generate few rivers? ;-) 19:03:59 <andythenorth> meh 19:04:00 <andythenorth> who knows 19:04:04 <andythenorth> landscape gen is a crap shoot 19:04:25 <andythenorth> I just tried 'very smooth' and 'mountainous' with variety off, and got some more awesome systems 19:04:58 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/awesome_rivers_3.png 19:05:20 <andythenorth> I am going to have to change play style :P 19:05:31 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFDEDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:38 <andythenorth> very steep, very small islands are out of fashion :P 19:05:47 <planetmaker> oh... very smooth is sooooo boring. This is rough 19:05:51 <planetmaker> and mountainous 19:06:01 <LordAro> thats what she said 19:06:07 <planetmaker> rough is the minium roughness I play with ;-) 19:06:09 <andythenorth> Rubidium: is it deliberate the that the river gen creates realistic continental divides? 19:06:50 <Rubidium> you mean rivers not flowing up a hill? 19:07:43 *** JVassie [~James@178.111.223.63] has joined #openttd 19:08:13 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 19:11:18 <andythenorth> I mean rivers flowing towards sea either side of a hill, 19:12:22 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFDEDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:13:02 <Eddi|zuHause> it's quite rare that a river splits and then flows in two different direction 19:13:25 <Rubidium> the algorithm finds (recursively) the closest lower flat tile and makes a river between those waypoints 19:13:38 <fjb> Moin 19:13:49 <Rubidium> so yes, it's meant to be going down the hill as fast as possible 19:15:10 <andythenorth> it's pretty good 19:16:01 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/continental_divide.png 19:16:39 * andythenorth has mostly spent today in the company of 'newgame' :P 19:21:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22806 /trunk/src/ (language.h strgen/strgen.cpp strings.cpp): -Codechange: store the number of untranslated strings in the language file 19:23:08 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22807 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Feature-ish: show a message about missing strings in the intro window if a certain (configurable) threshold has been reached and its not a stable release 19:23:50 *** Steve776 [~Steve776@175.176.245.31] has joined #openttd 19:24:10 <Steve776> hey, new guy here 19:24:20 *** Steve776 [~Steve776@175.176.245.31] has quit [] 19:24:45 <Prof_Frink> hey, new guy there 19:25:42 *** Steve776 [~Steve776@175.176.245.31] has joined #openttd 19:25:48 <Steve776> hey guys 19:25:48 <Alberth> hi new guy 19:25:51 <Steve776> new lad here 19:26:00 <Steve776> hey Albert 19:26:11 <Alberth> please try to stay a little longer :) 19:26:19 <Steve776> is this the place to ask questions? 19:26:25 <Steve776> lol I will try 19:26:28 *** Steve776 [~Steve776@175.176.245.31] has quit [] 19:26:38 <Eddi|zuHause> that was a nice try. 19:27:49 <andythenorth> he's on a phone? 19:30:28 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-046-254.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:30:57 *** JVassie [~James@178.111.223.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:33:07 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-050-195.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 19:33:35 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:36:31 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22808 /trunk/src/landscape.cpp: -Change [FS#4740]: make it less likely that a one tile wide lake is created 19:37:22 <andythenorth> Alone pixel a day? 19:37:28 <andythenorth> hmm 19:37:34 <andythenorth> Alberth: one pixel a day? 19:37:50 <andythenorth> try at least 10^3 :P 19:38:04 *** pikka2 [~yaaic@101.118.202.8] has joined #openttd 19:38:09 <andythenorth> another one? 19:38:12 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:39:00 <Alberth> 'ten to the power of three' does not sound as good as 'one' 19:40:09 *** pikka [~yaaic@d114-78-22-253.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:40:43 <Eddi|zuHause> nah... physicists occasionally treat 300.000km/s as "one" 19:42:17 *** JVassie [~James@genkt-049-027.t-mobile.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:42:34 <Rubidium> oh, I thought as 12 19:45:27 <planetmaker> Wheeler: Gravitation 19:45:28 *** JVassie_ [~James@178.100.98.222] has joined #openttd 19:45:36 <planetmaker> c = epsilon = mu = G = 1 19:45:54 <planetmaker> enough knowledge in one book to kill with :-P 19:45:58 <SmatZ> :-) 19:46:03 <planetmaker> that's why the book is probably in black cover 19:46:07 <SmatZ> :D 19:46:13 <andythenorth> is there a name for a large amount of pixels? 19:46:21 <planetmaker> image? 19:46:23 <SmatZ> megapixel 19:46:31 <andythenorth> FIRS? 19:46:40 <SmatZ> :P 19:47:13 <planetmaker> it only has 0.9MByte. ogfx+landscape has 3MByte ;-) 19:47:26 <Alberth> pixels? 19:47:27 <planetmaker> repetition rules :-P 19:47:35 <planetmaker> grfsize 19:48:44 <Eddi|zuHause> CETS is already several MB without a significant number of (useful) images 19:50:38 *** JVassie [~James@genkt-049-027.t-mobile.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:55:02 <planetmaker> yup :-) 19:55:17 <planetmaker> as the same thing is included again and again 19:56:22 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 19:59:17 <Eddi|zuHause> grf is way inefficient in compressing redundancy over different sprites 19:59:20 * andythenorth tries to break rubidium's river fix 19:59:39 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Do you pass -c to nmlc? 19:59:47 <planetmaker> michi_cc: we do 20:00:32 <planetmaker> hm... do we? 20:00:35 * planetmaker starts to wonder 20:00:36 <michi_cc> Where? grep won't find a -c for me 20:00:59 <michi_cc> NML_FLAGS in scripts/Makefile.def is set to empty... 20:01:03 <planetmaker> I expected it in scripts/Makefile.def 20:01:05 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: i have no clue about the makefile... i only do the code generator :p 20:01:05 <planetmaker> yup 20:01:17 <andythenorth> Rubidium: less likely that the terrain generator makes a 1 tile lake? Or just the river generator? 20:01:51 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: pseudo sprites are uncompressed 20:02:09 <frosch123> and i think in the big grfs they are actually the majority :p 20:02:30 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but two real sprites with the same or similar content are not compressed either 20:02:47 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: compression is done for each real sprite individually 20:03:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (afair) 20:03:04 <frosch123> yeah, but still, i think pseudo sprites have the bigger effect 20:03:48 <Eddi|zuHause> could just teach openttd to read .tar.gz/bz2/xz 20:04:12 *** alluke [~591b0bad@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:05:07 <pjpe> how did ttdpatch do building over tunnel entrances? 20:05:24 <pjpe> did they have a grf that does the uh 20:05:28 <pjpe> sprite for building over a tunnel? 20:05:32 <Eddi|zuHause> cets.grf: 3874227, cets.tar.gz: 225463 20:05:46 * planetmaker tests with -c 20:05:50 <Eddi|zuHause> that's almost factor 20 20:06:19 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: reading compressed files isn't a problem. Scanning through them in random order (sprite loading) is 20:06:35 <Eddi|zuHause> pjpe: it just prints the rail over the tunnel sprite, whatever the sprite looks like 20:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: so we need a compression algorithm that is good in random access, or a very large sprite cache 20:08:34 <Rubidium> I thinnk CETS just duplicates sprites too much 20:08:44 <Rubidium> or has way too much 'blue' around them 20:09:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes, lots of duplicates. firstly, all wagons are currently green blobs, secondly, sprites are duplicated for different xrel/yrel values 20:10:00 <Eddi|zuHause> s/wagons/vehicles/ 20:10:09 <Rubidium> as I don't think it got some 10k different real sprites 20:10:51 <pjpe> eddi when would that ever really conflict with a newgrf then 20:10:57 <Eddi|zuHause> we have something in the order of 300 different vehicles, each with 24 views 20:11:02 <pjpe> i thought that was the reason people didn't really make that patch 20:11:22 <Eddi|zuHause> pjpe: it looks totally rubbish with the default graphics 20:12:01 <pjpe> having a floating rail? 20:12:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, rail without ballast, even. 20:12:22 <pjpe> http://www.tt-wiki.net/images/ttwiki/d/d9/Screenie1.png 20:12:25 <pjpe> doesn't look so bad there 20:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause> it looks horrible 20:13:21 <andythenorth> it looks bloody awful 20:13:43 <andythenorth> meanwhile :D http://tt-foundry.com/misc/river_silly.png 20:14:55 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it probably gets more silly on rough maps 20:15:21 <andythenorth> this is neat: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/rivers_lake.png 20:16:10 <Eddi|zuHause> why is there a lonely piece of desert? 20:16:11 <Prof_Frink> andythenorth: Congratulations. You've invented original-ai rivers. 20:16:23 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-236-196.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: jpx_] 20:17:52 *** pjpe [ae5f3e85@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 20:21:40 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:22:12 <V453000> the new rivers are quite nice :) 20:22:24 <planetmaker> yup :-) 20:23:49 <andythenorth> quite? 20:23:54 <andythenorth> understatement of the week :P 20:24:36 <SmatZ> well, it could be worse 20:24:40 <SmatZ> :) 20:24:59 * SmatZ hugs andythenorth 20:26:17 <pikka2> another beautiful moin... 20:27:40 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-074-203-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 20:28:29 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 20:29:04 <andythenorth> SmatZ is very huggy 20:29:08 <andythenorth> lo pikka2 20:29:27 <andythenorth> why is an SSD so rinsingly expensive 20:29:31 * andythenorth wants one 20:29:46 <pikka2> morning andy pandy 20:30:19 <pikka2> I guess it's time to get this bus moving, ttyl 20:30:32 <planetmaker> hello pikka2 20:30:38 <planetmaker> morning... is good :-) 20:33:29 <frosch123> night 20:33:33 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd57e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:42 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:55:59 <andythenorth> we should teach power stations to build next to rivers 20:56:04 <andythenorth> or is that just in the uk? 20:57:50 <planetmaker> nuclear plants prefer rivers or tectononic ridges 20:58:09 <planetmaker> ^w^w^w 20:58:26 <glx> nuclear plants need water 20:59:22 * andythenorth is going to bed 20:59:24 <andythenorth> good night 20:59:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure water also helps in coal power plants ;) 21:12:32 *** AD [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:57 *** JVassie_ [~James@178.100.98.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:14:13 <planetmaker> well... except in wind and solar power, water might come in handy everywhere else 21:14:27 <Yexo> hydropower! 21:15:18 <Eddi|zuHause> solar power works also way better with water... photo voltaic is meh... 21:18:13 *** AD [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has joined #openttd 21:18:51 *** AD is now known as Guest6640 21:22:49 * peter1138 grumbles at NetworkManager failing 21:30:12 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:31:39 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 21:34:31 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: i seem to remember that photovoltaic also works better with water - cools them down (think computers :) ) 21:34:53 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-074-203-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:35:08 <Eddi|zuHause> computers work horribly with water. 21:35:30 <appe> http://gyazo.com/8d85dfa1ff118201386a686221f247a9 21:35:35 <appe> that does actually work 21:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i fail to see _anything_ on that picture 21:36:49 <appe> its a mess, i know. 21:37:18 <Eddi|zuHause> no... it's just pixels 21:38:08 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: i mean, the cooler, the better sort of thing ;) 21:38:42 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: water is still the worst thing to use for that 21:39:12 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: you know, water leads electricity. 21:39:46 <LordAro> well, water on top of the panels, obviously not inside them... 21:40:04 <Eddi|zuHause> and there is no way to get it pure enough that it doesn't 21:40:16 <glx> oil is better 21:40:21 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: as soon as you add water to anything, it _will_ leak 21:40:30 <Eddi|zuHause> it 21:40:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not even a question of "when", but only "how much" 21:41:31 <LordAro> meh, just what i heard :) 21:42:42 *** Guest6640 [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:11 <LordAro> the panels in question were (i believe) in Jamaica, so, a bit hotter than here, and apparently the heat was reducing efficiency. the owner apparently put a water sprayer on them, and it was much better 21:45:55 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:08 *** AD_ [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has joined #openttd 21:49:28 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B731A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:49:51 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:57 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:53:01 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:54:12 *** AD_ [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:37 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7427E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:58:48 <Wolf01> 'night 21:58:50 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host178-232-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:07:31 <Eddi|zuHause> some crazy shit seems to be going on in libya right now... 22:08:35 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 22:09:18 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:28:02 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-206-151.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:33:09 *** AD [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has joined #openttd 22:33:42 *** AD is now known as Guest6646 22:36:04 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-107-71.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 23:15:07 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:17:58 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-107-71.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:20:06 *** snorre [~snorre@c6529BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:20:22 *** appe [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:25:41 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DA2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:08 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 23:39:00 *** snorre [~snorre@c6529BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 23:49:30 *** lessthanthree [lt3@d75-154-187-134.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 23:57:17 *** Guest6646 is now known as AD