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00:18:20 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08fb63.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 00:23:42 *** ar3k [~ident@ect191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 00:29:02 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebk127.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:06:42 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFDEDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:30 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:38:47 *** pjpe [ae5f3e85@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 01:39:47 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:45:10 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 01:45:53 *** LordAro [56885ede@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 01:51:14 *** pikka2 [~yaaic@101.118.202.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:53:10 *** pikka [~yaaic@101.118.202.8] has joined #openttd 01:53:40 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:719e:999a:c7dd:4f2a] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:24:29 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7427E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:24:37 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-050-195.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 02:26:15 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-246-188.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:32:03 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-129-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:15:52 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 03:21:56 *** noclue [~d4546db6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 03:39:17 *** noclue [~d4546db6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:37:31 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-236-196.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 04:42:57 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-236-196.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: jpx_] 05:05:37 *** LordAro [56885ede@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 05:18:03 *** pikka [~yaaic@101.118.202.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:21:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6CF20.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 05:25:42 <pjpe> was there ever a time when you could have rail cross over monorail? 05:26:15 <planetmaker> yup. Even now. By bridge and tunnel :-) 05:26:16 <Rubidium> not at the same level 05:26:21 <planetmaker> moin also :-) 05:26:37 <Rubidium> quak 05:27:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C4EF.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:27:29 <pjpe> you europeans 05:27:31 <pjpe> you ever have a burger 05:27:35 <pjpe> with schnitzel as the meat 05:27:38 <pjpe> and sauerkraut as the topping? 05:28:10 <planetmaker> rolls with schnitzel: yes. But I don't call it a burger. But without sauerkraut 05:28:11 <Rubidium> sounds more like Japanese breakfast 05:28:24 <planetmaker> and only at BBQ :-) 05:28:32 <pjpe> it's not as good as you'd think it was 05:28:52 <pjpe> i wish i could buy some good schnitzel here 05:28:56 <pjpe> without going far away 05:29:06 <Rubidium> but what's a Japanese breakfast with rice and raw egg? 05:29:07 <pjpe> have to settle for duck sausage with foie gras 05:29:11 <pjpe> and fries cooked in duck fat 05:29:11 <pjpe> oh well 05:29:12 <Rubidium> s/with/without/ 05:29:17 <planetmaker> uh... _raw_ egg? 05:29:26 <Rubidium> planetmaker: yes, raw egg 05:29:38 <planetmaker> Now, that's disgusting :-) 05:30:12 <pjpe> doesn't raw egg give you food poisoning or someting 05:30:14 <planetmaker> Funnily the one week I could enjoy Japan I never got raw egg. 05:30:21 <planetmaker> pjpe, nope 05:30:25 <pjpe> huh 05:30:29 <pjpe> any downside to eating it raw? 05:30:39 <planetmaker> not really 05:30:43 <pjpe> gotta try that 05:30:47 <planetmaker> Unless it is contaminated with salmonella 05:30:54 <planetmaker> which die when you fry or cook it 05:31:02 <planetmaker> thus it's slightly more dangerous 05:31:52 <planetmaker> but I lived my whole life without that happening... there are several food which require egg to be raw and which are not cooked 05:32:00 <Rubidium> http://pipichan.info/wp-content/gallery/recipes/tamagokake.jpg <- jummy 05:33:08 <Rubidium> I've also been served carbonara with almost raw egg; it became slightly cooked over time due to the warm pasta (in Japan) 05:33:25 <planetmaker> yup, Carbonara is one of those dishes 05:33:38 <planetmaker> Italian seem to like it ;-) 05:33:47 <planetmaker> Like also in tiramisu 05:34:05 <planetmaker> though... Sauce Hollandaise also is rather raw egg :-) 05:34:54 <planetmaker> hm, you're right, Rubidium, I _did_ see that over there. I just didn't eat it :-) 05:36:07 <Rubidium> Hollandaise is less raw than say... mayonaise 05:36:40 <planetmaker> well... 40°C is a temperature where nearly nothing dies ;-) 05:36:44 <Rubidium> (Hollandaise has to be heated to ~375K 05:36:54 <planetmaker> ehm... no? 05:37:20 <Rubidium> oh... wrong maths 05:37:35 <Rubidium> 335K ;) 05:38:01 <Rubidium> I hate it there's no degree key; makes talking about degrees Celsius so hard 05:38:09 <planetmaker> like °C? 05:38:18 <planetmaker> use a German layout ;-) 05:38:23 <Rubidium> anyhow, 62°C according to wikipedia 05:38:29 <planetmaker> you have the ~ there probably 05:38:59 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 05:39:06 <planetmaker> hm, I'd have said like 40°C... but... maybe the egg still survives 60°C 05:40:16 *** Nite_Owl [~chatzilla@c-76-109-73-27.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 05:41:13 <planetmaker> so maybe I'd be better off making Sauce Hollandaise only on Mount Everest and alike ;-) 05:41:29 <planetmaker> Can't get too hot there :-P 05:41:45 <planetmaker> water boils there at 70°C 05:43:20 *** Nite_Owl [~chatzilla@c-76-109-73-27.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:44:24 <Rubidium> http://recipes.coles.com.au/recipes/746/picture-700x255/japanese-pork-schnitzel-with-teriyaki-glaze.jpg <- that, with a bit of Miso is what I took as breakfast though. Didn't want to experiment too much with my health after the stomach of some others didn't cope well 05:44:59 *** JVassie [~James@178.110.9.76] has joined #openttd 05:45:02 <planetmaker> looks about typical. I'm missing the all-present fish, though 05:47:11 <Rubidium> maybe that's a local thing 05:47:25 <Rubidium> can't remember much fish in Osaka 05:47:44 <planetmaker> My experience is from Kyoto and Kobe. In any case I found the Japanese food easier and nicer to eat than British ;-) 05:47:53 <pjpe> come on guy 05:47:57 <pjpe> can't go wrong with a nice cornish pastie 05:48:03 <pjpe> or shepherd's pie 05:48:52 <planetmaker> you know... there are Itialian, French, Thai, German, Mexican, Japanese, Indian,... cooking books. But I've never seen a British ;-) 05:49:09 <pjpe> don't need one 05:49:12 <Rubidium> I still refuse to go to Burger King due to the quality of something that pretended to be food I got served in the UK 05:49:13 <pjpe> meat + potato + vegetable 05:49:14 <pjpe> done 05:49:26 <pjpe> maybe you some time wrap it in bread 05:49:30 <pjpe> maybe one day you deep fry it 05:50:05 <pjpe> wait do germans ever have a big ol turkey 05:50:08 <pjpe> with mashed potatoes and gravy 05:51:25 <Rubidium> planetmaker: seen a Dutch one? 05:51:48 <planetmaker> actually, I think so, yes 05:51:54 <pjpe> nothing beats a good ol turkey 05:53:54 <__ln__> the germans have a significant minority from turkey 05:54:43 <pjpe> a big ol slab of schwarma meat covered in gravy just isn't the same 05:55:10 <planetmaker> pjpe, so... have you yourself already prepared a turkey then? ;-) 05:55:34 <pjpe> never needed to 05:55:36 <pjpe> that's what my mom is for 05:55:48 <planetmaker> lol 05:58:21 <Rubidium> planetmaker: one plus of the British breakfast is that it isn't all sugary, like the American breakfasts I got 05:58:58 *** JVassie [~James@178.110.9.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:59:03 <planetmaker> admittedly, North America and Africa are the only continents I haven't conciously visited yet 05:59:03 <pjpe> sugary american breakfast? 05:59:05 <Rubidium> and I really don't like that in the morning 05:59:08 <pjpe> usually eggs and bacon 05:59:12 <pjpe> quite salty 05:59:49 <Rubidium> pjpe: try donut (with sugar), muffins, sugary cereals, sugary break with jam 05:59:56 <Rubidium> s/break/bread/ 05:59:56 <pjpe> donuts for breakfast? 06:00:01 <pjpe> what kind of sorcery is that 06:00:05 <pjpe> and cereals are best sugary 06:00:29 <Rubidium> they even did something to the milk that made it taste bad (vanilla sugar maybe?) 06:00:47 <pjpe> what 06:00:50 <pjpe> vanilla sugar milk bad? 06:00:53 <pjpe> you're insane 06:00:54 <Rubidium> I would've been happy with a bagel with cream cheese, but no... they didn't have it 06:01:39 <pjpe> huh that's strange 06:02:36 <pjpe> my breakfast is usually just dry mueslix 06:02:39 <Rubidium> then I'm also insane for not liking the Burger King special... salt with blackened fries and frozen fries, and leather on a soggy bun 06:02:40 <pjpe> or dry vector cereal 06:02:42 <pjpe> and then nutella 06:02:44 <pjpe> right out of the jar 06:02:55 <pjpe> oh yeah if you aren't used to fast food in america i wouldn't bother 06:03:07 <pjpe> it only tastes decent to good to those of us who have lived here for a while 06:03:32 <Rubidium> pjpe: well... this instance of Burger King "meal" was given to me in the UK 06:03:46 <pjpe> well blame the uk 06:04:00 <Rubidium> nah, blame the Burger King 06:04:22 <Rubidium> I just refuse to be theree 06:04:38 <pjpe> that too 06:04:39 <Rubidium> oh... too early... too much typos 06:04:40 <pjpe> i like their fries 06:04:43 <pjpe> lots of potato and sugar 06:05:11 <planetmaker> Burger King is also commonly called WÃŒrger King here :-P 06:05:53 *** HandsofFate [~bwochinsk@75-9-109-56.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:06:02 <planetmaker> wÃŒrgen = chock, gag, strangle ;-) 06:06:06 <planetmaker> *choke 06:18:09 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 06:20:17 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e090e25.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:30:11 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-236-196.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 06:33:47 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 06:36:26 *** pikka [~yaaic@101.118.251.165] has joined #openttd 06:37:01 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 06:44:16 <dihedral> morning :-) 06:54:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6CF20.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:54:38 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 06:57:48 <Rubidium> moin dihedral 06:59:14 <pjpe> heat maps for tracks: anyone ever done it? 06:59:23 <Rubidium> yes 06:59:36 <pjpe> oh shit really 06:59:58 <pjpe> 'track statistics' 07:00:30 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-050-195.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 07:01:57 <pjpe> grows grass on unused tracks 07:11:12 <pjpe> how much memory do you figure an array of null pointers takes? 07:11:24 <pjpe> well i suppose it doesn't matter what pointer is in the array 07:11:33 <pjpe> which makes this less complicated 07:13:20 *** xahodo [~chatzilla@xahodo.demon.nl] has joined #openttd 07:13:24 <Rubidium> 32MiB? 07:14:07 <pjpe> 4 bytes for 32 bit memory? 07:15:03 <pjpe> hmm yeah that makes this idea not so great 07:15:21 <xahodo> Hello 07:15:30 <pjpe> what's the size of a tile? 07:15:54 <Rubidium> 9 bytes 07:16:02 <pjpe> so for a 2048 by 2048 map 07:16:03 <Rubidium> no, I assumed 64 bits 07:16:29 <pjpe> largest map size takes 32 megabytes in memory? 07:16:31 <pjpe> for the tile data? 07:16:55 <Rubidium> more like 36 07:17:10 <pjpe> yeah 07:17:23 <pjpe> my idea was if you have data you only fill in for some tiles 07:17:34 <pjpe> to save processing you only store the ones that need data filled in 07:17:43 <pjpe> have an array for each tile with a null pointer if the data wasn't filled in 07:17:52 <pjpe> otherwise a pointer to the extra tile data object 07:18:08 <pjpe> so if you collected how much a track was used 07:18:23 <pjpe> you'd only have to store the array of pointer to the objects that hold the usage data 07:18:49 <pjpe> but the array of pointers would pretty much double the memory usage for the map 07:19:45 <xahodo> Would it be profitable for memory performance to allocate _m and _me with one malloc? 07:19:57 <pjpe> and unless you do some trickery to keep every extra info object referenced by the one pointer array, you'd need more than one array of pointers 07:20:21 <Rubidium> xahodo: no 07:21:23 <xahodo> ok, I'll drop that idea. 07:21:23 <pjpe> are the devs concerned with a patch using one of the free bytes in the tile data? 07:22:12 <pjpe> or is a nonissue for a while if a patch uses a free byte in a tile 07:24:54 <xahodo> Maybe it's an option to store in a water tile how many of the next tiles iterated over are also water (or canal or river) tiles, this could spare unneeded tile visits. 07:27:26 *** staN [bc6f57fe@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:35:53 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 07:40:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A5F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:41:58 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:42:03 <pjpe> i think mine was a bad question to ask 07:44:20 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 07:44:23 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 07:44:55 <Rubidium> or just the wrong time to ask it 07:45:19 <Rubidium> but there are plenty of patch(pack|e)s that use some of the free memory 07:46:07 <pjpe> nah i mean i was thinking in the context of the tile data eventually running out of space for new parts of it to use 07:46:11 <Rubidium> xahodo: how would imagine it works? How do you think the iteration works? 07:46:14 <pjpe> but then you could just expand it couldn't you 07:46:32 <Rubidium> yes, that's always possible 07:50:19 <xahodo> As far as I know the iterator blindly tests each and every tile in steps of 16, each round starting at a different offset. 07:51:52 <xahodo> However, it's been a while since I last looked at the relevant code. Been trying to wrap my head around openttd's code for quite a while now. 07:53:36 <Rubidium> that would mean that each tile clearing needs to look at the 8 neighbouring tiles whether they are water and go "back" in the tile loop to change whether the tile can be skipped or not 07:53:37 <xahodo> If the iterator encounters X water tiles in a row (lest just say 8) it could record that in the first water tile so it could simply skip over all those tiles the next time, unless something changes (terraforming). 07:54:35 <Rubidium> even then, last time I checked water wasn't the most expensive; clear tiles were 07:55:19 <Rubidium> to check whether to build 'fences' around farms 07:55:48 <Rubidium> (tree tiles are affected in the same manner) 07:56:31 <Rubidium> though, try it and see how much (or little) it affects performance 07:59:24 <pjpe> fence building really that expensive? 07:59:28 <pjpe> should be a setting to disable that 07:59:58 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:00:08 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-236-196.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: jpx_] 08:40:43 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74682.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:50:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:53:09 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.73.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:55:18 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 08:56:03 *** appe [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has joined #openttd 08:56:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 09:22:14 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:23:32 *** krinn [~krinn@211.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 09:23:43 <krinn> hi all 09:25:11 <krinn> never knew about the blind zone at north of town, anyone could confirm it's a game mechanics weakness ? (see http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4702 ) 09:26:12 <krinn> i mean, never even knew it while playing the game, and i don't remember been victim of that while playing the game 09:27:32 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 09:28:10 <krinn> how the game handle that ? (i mean for the town rating) 09:34:33 *** pjpe [ae5f3e85@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:35:48 *** xahodo [~chatzilla@xahodo.demon.nl] has quit [Quit: I'm melting...] 09:37:17 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0f881.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:38:53 *** pikka [~yaaic@101.118.251.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:41:02 <Yexo> krinn: there is no blind zone 09:41:50 <krinn> ah, so it's legit to put a station toptile outside town influence while its lower tiles still are within? 09:43:35 <krinn> it's just i'm not sure of frosch answer (i'm not even sure he get what i was speaking of, i'm not really clear sometimes) 09:44:12 <Yexo> why would that not be legit? 09:44:35 <Yexo> I wouldn't advise it, if you serve a station reasonable well it's good for it to be within the town influence 09:44:56 <krinn> well, if the town rating is not affect, the station is doing nothing for the town, but the town might still see the station and hate a "non working" station 09:45:33 <krinn> i could explain the conditions better if you wish yexo 09:46:12 <Yexo> if the town rating is not affected the station is indeed doing nothing, but that includes both the positive and negative effects 09:47:39 <krinn> that kind of station put there, for town my ai name won't even appears in town properties if i look at them so ? 09:48:44 <Yexo> if your company name is not visible in the town properties you haven't effected the town rating at all yet 09:49:20 <krinn> industries are affect too no? and this time it's bad to have no effect vs one that have effect 09:49:48 <Yexo> what do you mean with effect on industries? 09:49:56 <Yexo> just building a station has no effect on industries at all 09:50:07 <krinn> for the cargo distrib ? 09:50:21 <Yexo> industries don't rate your company like towns do 09:50:32 <Yexo> the only thing important for cargo distribution is your station rating 09:50:40 <Yexo> see http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_Mechanics for how that works 09:51:10 <krinn> i know, but if the station cannot be seen too ? (toptile outside industry influence) 09:51:36 <Yexo> the tile with the station sign has absolutely no influence there 09:52:15 <krinn> ah ok, the only "bad" effect to build north is so just "may hide yourself for a town" ? 09:52:25 <Yexo> yes 09:52:36 <Yexo> if you build tile by tile the exact same thing can happen if you build south 09:52:57 <Yexo> start by building the southern-most tile, then build each tile connecting to the last more north 09:53:05 <Yexo> station sign will keep over the southern-most tile 09:53:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the only "problem" with only the north tile being checked on construction is, you can put airports closer to town in the north than in the south 09:53:49 <Yexo> not sure that is still true 09:53:52 <krinn> i have bypass that Eddi|zuHause that's why i was worry about that 09:53:55 <Yexo> I think frosch fixed that quite some time ago 09:54:20 <krinn> it's still in effect in 1.1.1 Yexo 09:54:21 <Rubidium> isn't it "station flag", not "top tile"? 09:54:34 <Yexo> Rubidium: yes, it is 09:54:43 <krinn> it's always toptile on my tests (but i only build plain station, and not tile by tile) 09:54:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: on construction, there is no station sign yet 09:55:05 <Rubidium> krinn: then build first the SE corner and then overbuild it with the rest you want to build 09:55:29 <krinn> Rubidium, cannot be done on airport :) 09:55:47 <Rubidium> build it against a bus stop 09:56:01 <Rubidium> and then remove the bus stop 09:56:02 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause / krinn: for the airport noise level the tile of the airport closest to the city center is checked, not the tile with the station sign 09:56:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: it worked like this a few months ago 09:56:12 <krinn> but i have just add a function to see if any part of incoming airport will be indeed inside town influence and it solve the problem find a good spot at north tiles 09:56:28 <Yexo> and it has been that for I think at least a year, maybe two 09:57:17 <krinn> human can easy fall on the gap, ai cannot but ai then just "lost" north tiles 09:59:01 <krinn> thank you Yexo for a clear answer 10:00:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: that's not my observation 10:01:24 <Yexo> that's what the code is doing, so if it doesn't work like that there is a bug 10:07:03 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-004-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 10:18:48 *** mos|work [~mos@217.22.80.138] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 10:20:40 <krinn> ah tere's a bad effect of that mechanic, flatten tiles within town influence lower town rating, to finally build a station that won't get rating increase because outside town influence, but that's not a huge issue 10:21:12 <Rubidium> well, you'll always be having that issue 10:21:25 <krinn> you may end with a big station working wonder for a town while the town hate you :) 10:21:26 <Rubidium> even if you center the station flag 10:21:34 <krinn> yes, i just never notice it while been human 10:21:51 <Noldo> the station title is on the first station tile build right? 10:22:06 <krinn> yep, toptile Noldo 10:22:29 <Noldo> so there is always the workaroung to build bus or lorry station first 10:22:32 <Noldo> *d 10:22:50 <krinn> that's a "dirty" hack, and you are suppose to have join stations working 10:23:00 <Yexo> krinn: actually terraforming tiles doesn't influence the town rating at all, as long as the terraforming doesn't include the removal of any trees 10:23:12 <Noldo> :-D 10:24:11 <krinn> Yexo, yes, but lower/higher tiles clean trees, but the fact is that removing tree while building your station will lower your rating, and your station will never let it comes up because still outside 10:24:16 <krinn> but that's a tiny bad effect 10:26:11 <krinn> it just imply that an ai shouldn't build north if not handling town rating, else doing that the ai will remove any others construction within that town 10:26:43 <krinn> but if one build north i suppose he is aware he need to handle town rating so 10:27:10 <Yexo> you don't need to 10:27:19 <Yexo> "Each month players' ratings automatically change: Rating goes up by 5 if it is less than 200. " 10:27:27 <Yexo> and to build a station you only need -200 rating 10:27:42 <krinn> ah yes i forgot that one 10:27:51 <krinn> higher delays only so 10:29:31 <krinn> what you think Yexo AIStation.IsWithinTownInfluence need a change to check each station tiles instead of just its toptile ? 10:30:06 <Yexo> why would it need such a change? 10:30:16 <Yexo> do you propose to change the game behavior or just the API function? 10:30:31 <krinn> the api function 10:30:44 <krinn> if toptile is outside, but some station tiles are within: the function return false 10:30:56 <Yexo> as it should, since the town rating is not affected by that station 10:31:01 <krinn> an api dev might use it to check its station is within town influence and remove when false 10:32:05 <Yexo> if you want to know it for each tile use AITileList_StationType and valuate with AITown.IsWithinTownInfluence 10:32:13 <krinn> i find that bug as i use the function to check an airport is within the town i wish build an airport to reuse it, and while the function was saying false my ai then build another airport in the town 10:32:24 <Yexo> rather AITile.IsWithinTownInfluence 10:32:48 <Yexo> that is the wrong function for that 10:32:58 <krinn> that's what i have done, bypass the AIStation function using mine that check each tiles 10:33:09 <Yexo> you could create a AIStationLis tand filter by AIStation.GetNearestTown 10:33:40 <krinn> nope, weakness in GetNearestTown too 10:34:02 <Yexo> I know, but there is no general way that always works 10:34:05 <krinn> might answer what town is the closest, not what town your airport was build for (when two town are close each other) 10:34:21 <Yexo> the only failsafe thing is keeping a list in memory yourself 10:34:58 <krinn> i think too 10:36:04 <krinn> but as the function is now, the AIStation.IsWithinTownInfluence = 0 usage as it may answer only to the station toptile 10:36:37 <krinn> while it's legit for a AIStation function to answer for the whole station query 10:36:57 <krinn> imo 10:37:51 <Yexo> the function has a very clear usage: it tells you if that stations influences how the town thinks about you 10:38:07 <Yexo> that's the only thing the function is trying to answer, you can't use it for anything else as you have found out 10:39:28 <krinn> i see now :) 10:40:46 <krinn> at least change in the api doc will help like frosch done it, clearer 10:41:02 <krinn> + * If a new station would be build on this tile, the servicing quality of it would 10:41:02 <krinn> + * influence the rating of the town. 10:52:54 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 11:31:28 <krinn> is there a way to detect the big pole that isn't removable ? 11:31:42 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:32:25 <krinn> not using AITile.IsBuildable as this only answer if something is in the way, not if that something could be remove or not 11:36:01 <Yexo> you can try to remove it in test-mode 11:36:06 <Yexo> afaik that's the only reliable way 11:36:29 <krinn> ah yes thank you 11:47:27 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22809 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4731]: towns expanding from the "wrong" side of a tunnel or bridge 11:55:06 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74682.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55:28 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74682.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:55:53 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... two things: the "scanning for newgrfs" vastly underestimates the number of grfs, and then spends most of the time at 100%, and then it tells me "missing newgrfs have been deactivated" without telling me what they were... 11:56:41 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... 11:56:42 <Eddi|zuHause> dbg: [grf] NewGRF 4D4C0100 (newgrf/dutchcatw.grf) not found; checksum 1E2A243600434194FB100E72E507D5EF 11:56:44 <Eddi|zuHause> dbg: [grf] NewGRF 4D656F6E (newgrf/treesw.grf) not found; checksum 6A1FD7EADF9CBB9A0704FAA644B77AE6 11:56:48 <Eddi|zuHause> those are my static grfs 11:57:11 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: you disabled saving the config file? 11:57:26 <Rubidium> as it puts a new estimate in there, based on the amount you had the previous time 11:57:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: not that i know of 11:57:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: this was the first time starting 11:58:01 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway... 11:58:13 <Eddi|zuHause> why does it disable my static grfs? 11:58:48 <Rubidium> no clue 11:59:25 <Rubidium> anyhow, is the estimate better the second time you start? 11:59:27 <Eddi|zuHause> my theory: it's trying to load them before scanning was completed 12:00:11 *** alluke [~591b0bad@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 12:01:05 <Rubidium> it works fine for me 12:01:11 <Rubidium> or do you have NewGRFs in the intro game? 12:01:27 <Rubidium> i.e. a custom intro game with NewGRFs 12:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i have the 1.1.x intro game from the contest 12:03:11 <Rubidium> hmm 12:03:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the estimate looks better the second time 12:04:02 <Eddi|zuHause> but it still tells me about deactivating the grfs 12:04:28 <Rubidium> yeah, that's from the intro game being loaded without any NewGRFs available 12:04:41 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but it's totally annoying 12:04:42 <Rubidium> not sure whether to disable NewGRFs in the intro game alltogether 12:05:35 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it should do a special run for the static grfs before trying to load the intro game 12:10:26 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/ignore_newgrfs_in_intro.diff ought to help with the error 12:11:02 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:11:08 <krinn> Yexo, tried the testmode, but cannot use it as valuator, we have a way to bypass that ? 12:11:26 <Yexo> write your own valuator function in squirrel 12:11:37 <Rubidium> use the squirrel valuator from the superlib? 12:11:38 <Yexo> I've done so for admiralai and I believe zuu has included it in superlib 12:12:10 <krinn> going to have a look at it 12:12:13 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:601f:f524:d7a7:e00e] has joined #openttd 12:12:16 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: rather treat static grfs in the run for the base grfs 12:22:56 <Rubidium> that runs before the config file is read 12:23:21 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... evil... 12:23:40 <Eddi|zuHause> is there a reason for that? 12:24:08 <Rubidium> for -h there's no need to load the config file, but it should list the base sets 12:24:44 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure i buy this argument... 12:26:28 <Rubidium> in any case, I'm somewhat considering using the grfid + md5checksum as identifier in the config file 12:26:31 *** douknoukem [~KEM@78.166.118.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: how does that help if you didn't scan the files yet to identify them? 12:27:33 <Rubidium> not, but that would make scanning for the static newgrfs in the base set scan pointless 12:27:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i think ini is kind of a suboptimal format for newgrf info 12:28:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you have filename, grfid, md5sum, version, parameters 12:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause> but for the presets, they should get the updated version automatically when you download updated grfs from bananas 12:30:01 <Rubidium> more something like: there are newer versions of some of the NewGRFs. Should those newer versions be taken? 12:31:07 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 12:31:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i never had this problem before bananas, because i usually overwrite the files with the new version (making backups of old), so it gets taken automatically, since presets only take directory/filename into consideration 12:31:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but in bananas, the version is part of the filename 12:31:37 <Eddi|zuHause> so it won't get automatically updated 12:32:35 <michi_cc> Presets need to get palette information, otherwise mixing DOS/windows grfs without Action 14 is a hassle. 12:32:55 <Eddi|zuHause> right, i forgot that 12:35:27 <Rubidium> michi_cc: that's more a NewGRF related setting, not preset related 12:36:50 <michi_cc> Well, yes, but presets exacerbate it because you still need to open the NewGRF window to fix the palette. If you have it open anyway, it's less of a problem. 12:37:44 <Rubidium> yes, but rather store it once than for each time you add it to a preset 12:40:13 <michi_cc> That would be even better of course. 12:41:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r22810 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Growth a town on both ends of a tunnel/bridge if the town centre tile is a bridge ramp/tunnel portal. 12:42:43 <michi_cc> Bah, s/Growth/Grow/ :) 12:44:50 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 12:48:41 *** netantho [~netantho@dou59-1-89-84-105-110.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #openttd 12:49:04 <Belugas> hi hi 12:51:13 *** douknoukem [~KEM@88.230.3.214] has joined #openttd 12:51:17 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-236-196.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 12:54:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22811 /trunk/src/saveload/newgrf_sl.cpp: -Change: don't try to load static NewGRFs when loading the intro game for the first time 13:05:24 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:05:43 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 13:05:46 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 13:09:12 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.183.216] has joined #openttd 13:30:35 *** lessthanthree [lt3@d75-154-187-134.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by queer] 13:38:03 *** alluke [~591b0bad@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:45:44 *** alluke [~591b0bad@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 13:46:19 <alluke> lakie 13:46:24 <alluke> whats done/left to do 13:48:55 <Lakie> A fair bit? 13:51:41 <alluke> ? 13:52:19 <alluke> im already playing with the early set and need moar! MOAR! 13:53:31 <Rubidium> not "I want it all, and I want it now"? 13:53:56 <alluke> exactly that :P 13:56:03 <Lakie> Heh 13:56:13 * Lakie wonders where DanMacK is, haven't seen him for a while 14:10:11 *** staN [bc6f57fe@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 14:13:05 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 14:30:49 *** clueless [~d4546db6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:30:55 *** clueless [~d4546db6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 14:31:12 *** noclue [~d4546db6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:36:43 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74682.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74682.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:43:45 <krinn> later all 14:43:54 *** krinn [~krinn@211.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 14:45:52 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 14:46:53 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFDEDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:59:47 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:45 *** chossette [~chossette@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #openttd 15:01:57 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFDEDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:02:23 *** chossette [~chossette@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [] 15:15:34 *** Ackmey [~chatzilla@99.192.85.0] has joined #openttd 15:20:53 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.73.65] has joined #openttd 15:27:11 *** keoz [~keikoz@141.2.96.19] has joined #openttd 15:44:46 *** keoz [~keikoz@141.2.96.19] has quit [Quit: keoz] 15:46:53 *** douknoukem [~KEM@88.230.3.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:56:49 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:57:26 <Ackmey> Hey all 16:10:37 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:10:45 <Ackmey> What year do oil rigs start appearing? 16:11:04 <Eddi|zuHause> 1970-ish 16:11:25 <Eddi|zuHause> but only in temperate climate 16:11:33 <Ackmey> Thanks 16:12:07 <Ackmey> Hey also, is there an easy way of replacing a small airport with a larger one without having to reroute all my planes individually? 16:13:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i just catch all incoming planes and skip the order 16:13:26 <Eddi|zuHause> there is currently no way to "close" an airport 16:14:31 <Ackmey> That's a pain when you have a pile of planes 16:14:40 <Ackmey> I got my small airport way too congested though 16:17:14 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e090e25.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:33:29 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-074-203-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:34:30 <alluke> lakie 16:34:38 <alluke> are you able to tell how many % is done 16:36:17 *** tty234 [telex@anapnea.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CF20.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:37:31 <Lakie> Not really, to be honest, I was hoping to talk with DanMack to pass it over to another coder. My time seems to be more and more squeezed recently. :( 16:38:12 <Lakie> Though I have made mention of this to him already, so its mostly discussing it with him now. 16:38:51 <alluke> ha 16:38:57 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:39:00 <alluke> post into the thread 16:39:22 <alluke> and find someone who wants to continue it 16:39:55 <planetmaker> what newgrf, Lakie? 16:40:09 <Lakie> I was planning to wait on DanMacK's opinons before doing so 16:40:15 <Lakie> Finnish Train St, planetmaker 16:40:29 <planetmaker> ah 16:40:40 <Lakie> Should be fairly simple for someone to do, either in nfo or nml. 16:40:48 <Lakie> Its just the time cost 16:41:08 <alluke> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=21457 16:41:10 <alluke> yes 16:41:46 <planetmaker> 18:40 Lakie: Its just the time cost 16:41:54 <planetmaker> ^^ yes, that's often the issue :-) 16:43:34 <Lakie> I know, its a pain that its almost always the area which ishit the most, lol. 16:44:28 <alluke> lakie 16:44:32 <alluke> post to the thread ;) 16:44:44 <alluke> noone will take over the job from here 16:46:00 *** douknoukem [~KEM@88.230.3.214] has joined #openttd 16:47:37 <Lakie> In a little while, I'm currently got other tasks which need attending right now, sorry. 16:50:02 *** pinklady [~pinklady@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #openttd 16:52:12 *** pinklady [~pinklady@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [] 16:52:28 *** aaagirl [~aaagirl@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #openttd 16:54:19 <alluke> right 16:54:20 *** aaagirl [~aaagirl@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [] 16:55:54 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:57:12 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFDFFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:58:53 *** douknoukem [~KEM@88.230.3.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:01:22 <Belugas> this suspense is intolerable! Will he escape, will he die or will he be caught? 17:01:31 <Belugas> don't tell me we won't know today! 17:02:17 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:08:46 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:14:11 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:17:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:18:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7e21.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:19:01 <andythenorth> quack 17:19:09 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:19:28 <Rubidium> moin 17:21:22 *** netantho [~netantho@dou59-1-89-84-105-110.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:24:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22812 /trunk/src/ (55 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: incorrect currency code 17:26:38 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@91.84.183.216] has joined #openttd 17:27:14 <Lakie`> Happy, alluke? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=21457&p=966258#p966258 17:29:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:30:01 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:31:37 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.183.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:31:47 *** Lakie` is now known as Lakie 17:35:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22813 /trunk/src/ (currency.cpp lang/english.txt): -Fix [FS#4575]: make naming of currencies more consistent 17:38:31 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22814 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix (r22813): typo 17:39:42 <alluke> oh yes i am 17:39:46 <alluke> thanls 17:41:31 *** alluke [~591b0bad@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:45:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22815 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed) 17:45:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 10 changes by habell 17:45:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: english_US - 8 changes by Rubidium 17:45:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker 17:45:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: italian - 10 changes by lorenzodv 17:45:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: polish - 8 changes by xaxa 17:48:22 <appe> hm 17:48:53 <appe> can i make train tracks with signals complete, or do i have to make the tracks - and then the signals? 17:49:17 <SpComb> tracks and signas 17:49:21 <SpComb> *signals 17:49:25 <SpComb> but you can drag both 17:55:27 <V453000> why would you make tracks with signals? :D 18:00:07 *** douknoukem [~KEM@88.230.3.214] has joined #openttd 18:13:54 *** xavexgoem [~xavexgoem@99.149.231.187] has joined #openttd 18:19:43 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h84n7-ld-c-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #openttd 18:32:06 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host178-232-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:32:47 <Wolf01> hello 18:32:57 *** Ackmey [~chatzilla@99.192.85.0] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0/20110811165603]] 18:34:43 * Zuu thinks loundly about introducing some word to define an airport "blueprint". Eg. the equivalent of what an engine is to a vehicle for airports. 18:35:16 <Zuu> Then AIAirport could be split into AIAirport (similar to AIVehicle) and AIAirportBlueprint (similac to AIEngine) 18:35:41 <Zuu> First I though about using the name AIAirportType, but then we have the concept of views that would be inside that class as well. 18:35:51 <SmatZ> as an idea, I like it 18:35:58 <Zuu> Though, it might not be that bad still. A type HAS views. Not the other way around. 18:36:03 <SmatZ> not sure what it would break & stuff 18:36:49 <Zuu> NoAI have backward compatibility layers, and there has to be some significant changes to support NewGRF airports anyway, so now is a good moment to introduce a such split. 18:37:11 * SmatZ thinks the same 18:40:54 <Zuu> The AIAirportType class will get quite some functions so I think it will increase the clearness of the API if it is not also mixed with already built airports. 18:42:12 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-78-102-180-222.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:44:22 *** beijingguy [esben_smil@56340fa5.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #openttd 18:44:56 *** beijingguy [esben_smil@56340fa5.rev.stofanet.dk] has left #openttd [] 18:48:02 *** beijingguy [esben_smil@56340fa5.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #openttd 18:51:01 *** pjpe [ae5f3e85@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:09:45 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 19:10:45 *** pjpe [ae5f3e85@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 19:10:58 *** pjpe [ae5f3e85@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:19:48 *** avdg [~avdg@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:19:48 *** DJNekkid [~djnekkid@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:20:12 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:20:17 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:21:12 *** noclue [~d4546db6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:21:36 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:21:43 *** V453000 [~V453000@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:22:11 *** Osai [~Osai@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:22:47 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:22:47 *** tneo [~tneo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:23:14 *** avdg [~avdg@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:25:18 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:26:07 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:26:07 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:26:11 *** mode/#openttd [+o Terkhen] by ChanServ 19:26:31 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 19:27:18 *** tneo [~tneo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:27:49 *** V453000 [~V453000@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:28:19 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:28:19 *** Osai [~Osai@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:28:49 *** DJNekkid [~djnekkid@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:31:42 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-050-195.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:32:07 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-038-150.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 19:39:15 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 19:41:28 *** JVassie [~James@178.110.70.33] has joined #openttd 19:56:40 *** HandsofFate [~bwochinsk@75-9-109-56.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 19:57:06 *** Biolunar_ [mahdi@blfd-5d8222ae.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:00:30 *** beijingguy [esben_smil@56340fa5.rev.stofanet.dk] has left #openttd [] 20:03:29 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0f881.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:06:59 *** noclue [~d4546db6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 20:07:57 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 20:08:31 *** Lord_Aro [569a507c@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:08:52 *** LordAro is now known as Guest6764 20:08:53 *** Lord_Aro is now known as LordAro 20:09:06 <LordAro> evnings 20:09:29 <Wolf01> welcome back LordAro 20:09:40 <LordAro> back? 20:09:53 <Wolf01> forward? 20:12:43 <LordAro> i need to convert a const char * to a const UChar * .... ummm... help? 20:13:23 <Rubidium> why would you want to? 20:13:25 <Zuu> is the cost char * ansi? 20:13:42 <LordAro> i have no idea... :) 20:14:00 <Zuu> or do you also have to figure out which ansi extension that is in effect and do unicode conversion? (assuming Uchar is a unicode char) 20:14:31 <Rubidium> but OpenTTD uses no UChar in any of its internal 'APIs' 20:14:51 <LordAro> Rubidium: it is something to do with ICU 20:15:24 <Rubidium> but what are you trying to achieve that can't be currently done? 20:15:43 <LordAro> GetStringWidth() 20:15:46 <Rubidium> I don't see why showing a readme.txt requires custom ICU interfacing of 20:16:19 <Rubidium> use GetStringBoundingBox 20:16:44 <LordAro> thats (no doubt) a lot easier :) thanks 20:17:40 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-89-206.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:19:35 <LordAro> Rubidium: which file is it in? 20:19:44 <Rubidium> gfx_func.h 20:19:46 <LordAro> i can't find it on doxygen 20:20:08 <LordAro> (but then, i'm useless at working out where things are on it :) 20:20:10 <LordAro> ) 20:20:47 *** JVassie [~James@178.110.70.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:23:00 <Zuu> LordAro: Ever tried grep? 20:23:13 <LordAro> windoze... 20:23:16 <LordAro> (atm)) 20:23:20 <Zuu> (or Ctrl+Alt+F in visual studio) 20:24:01 <Zuu> and running windos is not an excuse for not using grep. 20:24:24 <LordAro> and not being bothered to learn how to use visual c++ ;) 20:24:24 * Zuu runs windows AND uses several unix tools 20:25:22 <Zuu> Do you compile using msvc or g++? 20:25:37 <LordAro> g++ 20:25:54 <Zuu> Doesn't msys come with grep? 20:26:00 <LordAro> (mingw and unix, if thats what you mean) 20:26:07 <LordAro> mingw not on this computer 20:26:18 <LordAro> but, yes, it does 20:27:10 <Zuu> Last time I checked their website, I saw that they have or will soon start to provide an istaller similar to cygwin where you can customize which packages you want to install and not. 20:27:26 <glx> <Zuu> (or Ctrl+Alt+F in visual studio) <-- ctrl+shift-F for me 20:27:50 <Zuu> glx: You are probably right, the key-combo is in my fingers, not my head. :-) 20:30:42 <Wolf01> 'night 20:30:48 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host178-232-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:31:42 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-236-196.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:45:37 <Yexo> Zuu: your work on AIAirport and friends is very nice, but I'm going to leave it alone for a while 20:45:47 <Yexo> there are some open questions for newgrf airports that have to be answered first 20:46:07 <Yexo> last idea is letting openttd figure out the holding pattern automatically 20:46:25 <Yexo> would be great if possible, and that would make detecting which aircraft are in the holding pattern possible 20:55:47 <Zuu> I read yesterday about the ideas regarding the holding pattern moving out of the FTA. So I will leave that for now and continue with my other ideas. (the holding thing is what I though was most advanced on beforehand) 20:58:15 <Zuu> My plan: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/cLpGXFWbuwTMKc7jszvC/ 20:58:59 <LordAro> Paste #cLpGXFWbuwTMKc7jszvC? thats not an integer... :) 20:59:39 <glx> it is, just in a different base 21:00:08 <Zuu> First my idea was to provide AIAirport.GetHoldingCount or something like that, but after some though I figured out that it would be to benefitical compared to what APIs that are for other transport systems. Thus only having AIVehicle.IsInHolding should be more equal among the transport modes. 21:01:52 <Zuu> LordAro: it doesn't even claim that it is a number. 21:02:14 <Zuu> Oh, well yes on the page maybe. but not in the url.. 21:02:23 <Yexo> LordAro: if you tick the box "private" while posting you'll get such an url 21:02:40 <Yexo> still publicly visible, but nobody can guess the url anymore 21:03:11 <Yexo> Zuu: CanPlaneTypeLand conceptually belongs in AIAirportType, but depending on newgrf implementation it might not be possible 21:03:30 <Yexo> for a newgrf the most logical implementation would be to make that function a callback of an existing airport 21:03:44 <Yexo> which means that an AI could only call it when an airport of that type exists 21:04:32 <Yexo> oh, and only with an actual existing vehicle, not with a vehicle type 21:05:11 <Yexo> I'm still wondering how useful GetNumHelipads and GetNumTerminals are 21:05:34 <Yexo> what about airports where the helipads and terminals overlap? both functions could return 4, while there would be only 4 spots in total, not 8 21:06:03 <Yexo> also for the default airports the city and metropolitan airports would return the same, so it's not an adequate measure of performance 21:07:43 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h84n7-ld-c-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #openttd 21:07:44 <Zuu_> There is a flag for short strip, if helicopters can land and a third flag for if airplanes can land. 21:07:51 *** DOUK [~KEM@88.230.222.232] has joined #openttd 21:08:40 <Zuu_> My idea was to combine the last two and provide CanPlaneTypeLand instead to make it more general and possible forward compatible for more plane types. 21:09:10 <Yexo> <Zuu_> There is a flag for short strip, if helicopters can land and a third flag for if airplanes can land. <- those flags are only for the default airports 21:09:15 <Yexo> newgrf airports will get much more freedom 21:09:59 *** Leif__ [~Zuu@h84n7-ld-c-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #openttd 21:10:06 *** Leif__ is now known as _Zuu_ 21:10:14 *** _Zuu_ is now known as Zuu__ 21:10:57 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h84n7-ld-c-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:11:23 <Zuu__> Yexo: How should an AI know which airport to build if it can't know if it can be used for eg. helicopters or planes? 21:11:27 <LordAro> Zuu/Zuu_/_Zuu_/Zuu__/Leif__ is having connection issues? :) 21:11:44 <Yexo> I'm not sure about that, that's one of the things I'm wondering about now ;) 21:11:46 <Zuu__> LordAro: Yes, and if you know my hostmask you'll see I'm not at home. 21:12:13 <LordAro> mibbit doesn't show them... 21:12:33 <LordAro> and my kvirc is out of action 21:12:58 <Zuu__> Also, how will a player know which airport to build as well if it can't know what it supports? 21:13:19 <Yexo> player can read readme.txt / do a testgame 21:13:24 *** douknoukem [~KEM@88.230.3.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:13:37 <Yexo> main problem is that we have more "types" than just plane / helicopter 21:14:15 <Yexo> there will be aircraft capable to land only on sea, or sea and land, there might be zeppelins that require a special zeppelin pylon 21:15:14 <Zuu__> Unless NewGRF will be allowed to dynamically reject aircrafts, I wouldn't it be possible for them to define an accept/reject table? 21:15:34 <Yexo> yes, I think that's the correct solution 21:15:41 <Eddi|zuHause> looks like kaffeine nowadays has a feature to buffer stuff in memory if the recording HD is full 21:16:13 <Zuu__> Or if you want to, exclude the table and only let OpenTTD read the FTA blocks for the availability of certain infrastructure elements. Though the later would probably allow NewGRFs to place traps. 21:16:19 <Yexo> maybe still via a callback, but than a callback that is called on airport type and with only static vehicle type data, so openttd would be able to cache the result 21:16:34 <Eddi|zuHause> at least it's now using like 3GB of memory and everything is really sluggish 21:17:08 <Yexo> detecting infrastructure via FTA is not possible 21:17:13 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h84n7-ld-c-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:18:21 <Zuu__> A callback would be fine as long as it can be called without having a such airport built. Using only static engine data would also help a lot as you need an airport before you can build an aircraft. 21:20:09 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h84n7-ld-c-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #openttd 21:21:15 <Zuu_> Hmm, my cellphone used as modem is more reliable than this connection... 21:22:35 <Yexo> meh, where is zephyris when you need him 21:23:37 <frosch123> Yexo: whether an airport can handle an aircraft must be known without an actual vehicle 21:23:49 *** netantho [~netantho@dou59-1-89-84-105-110.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #openttd 21:23:51 <frosch123> as you certainly also want to hide those aircraft from the purchase list :) 21:23:58 *** netantho [~netantho@dou59-1-89-84-105-110.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:02 *** Fuco [dota.keys@server.dasnet.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:18 <Zuu_> That's also a good point :-) 21:24:20 <Yexo> frosch123: yes, at some point the spec had two different callbacks: one for being able to land and one for buying at the airport 21:24:52 <Zuu_> and all types were able to take off? 21:25:10 <Yexo> basically yes 21:25:25 <Yexo> it was assumed that if a type is not able to take off you can't buy it at the airport and neither would it be able to land 21:25:27 *** Fuco [dota.keys@server.dasnet.cz] has joined #openttd 21:25:28 <Zuu_> althrough if you can't buy them, it's hard to make them take off ;-) 21:25:47 <Zuu_> can't buy them nor land them* 21:25:58 *** Fuco [dota.keys@server.dasnet.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> changing grfs midgame :p 21:26:11 <Yexo> back to the problem at hand: how to generate a holding pattern given one or more entry points (=position + direction) 21:26:37 <Yexo> Getting the entry points might already require calling a newgrf callback, since the entry points could depend on the airport type 21:26:58 *** Zuu__ [~Zuu@h84n7-ld-c-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:27:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: from the entry point a 180° curve (left), straight on, 180° curve (left), straigh on (back at entry point) 21:27:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: each section about same length (time-wise) 21:27:22 <frosch123> maybe small/large aircraft and heliport should work like railtypes 21:27:27 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: and now with 3 random entry points? 21:27:32 <frosch123> i.e. stuff like compatible landing places and such 21:27:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: one holding pattern for each entry point 21:27:44 <Yexo> consider that 2 of those entry points might be next to each other in the same direction? 21:28:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: add pseudo-random height, so they won't collide 21:28:17 <Yexo> frosch123: maybe, but that doesn't help 21:28:22 <Zuu_> Divide the airspace around an airport in four sectors. With dividers going north-west, north-east, south-east and south-west. In each sector restrict the allowed direction so that one can't set very insane direction/location combinations? 21:28:42 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the discussion is more about finding a bezier curve given the current aircraft position and direction, and the landing position/direction 21:28:57 <Zuu_> Althrgouh that will probably limit holding patterns to be only clockwise/counter-clockwise depending on how the spec is decided. 21:29:02 <Yexo> eddi: colliding is not the issue, how to generate a path so both entry points are visited about equally 21:29:03 <frosch123> but it must be integerish and the radius shall limit the speed 21:29:07 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, from random direction into holding pattern 21:29:34 <Yexo> no, we want to completely automatically generate the actual holding pattern 21:29:39 <Yexo> given one (or more) entry points 21:29:50 <Yexo> for one entry points it's trivial, as you showed in your first answer 21:30:13 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 21:30:25 *** Fuco [dota.keys@server.dasnet.cz] has joined #openttd 21:30:32 <frosch123> an entry point is a runway/helipad here, not something in the holding pattern 21:31:03 <Zuu_> Thanks for that clarification. I though you ment the entry point in the holding pattern. 21:31:27 <Yexo> sorry for that confusion 21:31:36 <Eddi|zuHause> so you make one holding pattern for each entry point, and distribute the incoming aircraft into these holding patterns, depending on how many planes are already holding there, with some bias on which direction the plane comes from (so it more likely takes the nearest one) 21:32:09 <SmatZ> Fuco: you are in .cz now? 21:32:10 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: or one holding pattern for the whole airport and every aircraft picks the nearest available entry 21:32:15 <Eddi|zuHause> "entry point" imho is the position where landing starts. if a plane comes there and the runway is not free, it enters the holding pattern which lasts X ticks until it gets back 21:32:15 <Zuu_> Eddi|zuHause: How far away do you make the desicion on where to go? 21:32:20 <Fuco> SmatZ: not right now, no 21:32:31 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i think that's a bad idea 21:32:34 <Yexo> frosch123: compatible landing places already goes wrong with water aircraft: I can easily give 3 types that are partly incompatible: A. land only B. water only C. land and water 21:32:35 <Fuco> my server is in cz tho 21:32:39 <SmatZ> Fuco: ok, your hostmask is ... ok :) 21:32:54 <michi_cc> And taking the properties of the entry point and aircraft into account, i.e. assign large aircraft only to long runway etc 21:33:06 <Fuco> I'm at home right now (slovakia ;)) 21:33:20 <michi_cc> The pattern itself can be the standard holding pattern: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holding_(aviation) 21:33:42 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: imho you should decide the entry point when in X distance from the airport, and never change the decision again 21:33:47 <Yexo> if we divide the aircraft over the entry points before they enter the holding pattern that is a good solution michi_cc 21:34:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22816 /trunk/src/ (roadveh_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Feature(ette): [NewGRF] Also age wagons and articulated parts. 21:34:30 <frosch123> hmm, true, i think rv do the same 21:35:10 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:36:09 <Yexo> so: fly towards center of airport, when at distance X get all possible entry points (airport callback?), pick entry point with lowest amount of aircraft in holding, join holding pattern for that entry point 21:36:18 <michi_cc> Compatible landing place can work, assign a type to the landing place (e.g. 'LARG', 'SMLL', 'WATR' or whatever) and each aircraft gets a list of allowed landing classes. If a suitable default set of classes is defined, there should be not too much other classes except for special vehicle types. 21:36:59 <frosch123> Yexo: yeah 21:37:05 <michi_cc> Or split by class (water, land, heli) and length and each aircraft gets compatible classes and a minimum length 21:38:04 <Yexo> as long as it's the vehicle defining the compatible landing places it can work 21:38:56 <michi_cc> The wiki page even has diagrams for entry into the holding pattern from each direction. 21:42:24 <frosch123> night 21:42:28 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7e21.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:37 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-004-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 21:54:46 <Zuu_> Yexo: Wouldn't it be the engine that decides it? Or is the vehicle <-> engine separation not used in the NewGRF domain? 21:55:09 <Yexo> you're right, the engine 21:55:35 <Yexo> I just meant engine instead of the airport or the classes themself, like it works for railtypes 21:55:50 <Yexo> railtypes define compatibility with eachother, not engines with multiple railtypes 21:56:49 <Eddi|zuHause> that concept has certain limitations 21:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause> like the TOE set that wanted dual-voltage engines 21:57:14 <Yexo> it has, indeed 21:57:23 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 21:57:58 *** ar3k [~ident@ect191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: âI-n-v-i-s-i-o-nâ 3.2 (July '10)] 21:58:06 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:59:30 <LordAro> night 21:59:39 *** LordAro [569a507c@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 22:00:25 *** hadrianius [~hadrianiu@46-129-80-24.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #openttd 22:03:49 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:01 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h84n7-ld-c-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #openttd 22:13:33 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h84n7-ld-c-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:17:53 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-78-102-180-222.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:23:08 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h84n7-ld-c-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #openttd 22:24:30 *** ar3k [~ident@ect191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 22:24:32 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 22:26:32 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:26:50 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h84n7-ld-c-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [] 22:29:57 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h84n7-ld-c-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:34:24 *** noclue [~d4546db6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:37:53 <Ammler> I have 2 completely different startups, if I start with or without blitter 22:40:02 <Ammler> ./openttd -c openttd.cfg -D -g save/restart.sav > http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/yeiR9zaedij4U/dedicated-without-blitter.log 22:40:31 <Ammler> ./openttd -c openttd.cfg -D -g save/restart.sav -b8bpp-optimized > http://ps.openttdcoop.org/publicserver/yeiR9zaedij4U/dedicated-blitter.log 22:40:57 <Ammler> something seems seriously broken 22:41:45 <Ammler> our last working server was r27000 22:41:59 <Ammler> r22700* 22:42:31 <Ammler> this error was already yesterday nightly and today (test with r22815) 22:44:35 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:49:27 <Ammler> oh, and just you know, but should be obvious it is a patched server :-) 23:03:11 <hadrianius> are there squirrel experts online/ 23:04:20 <hadrianius> ah, I just fixed it, nvm 23:05:33 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-074-203-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:05:59 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A5F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:18 *** Biolunar_ [mahdi@blfd-5d8222ae.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 23:09:48 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 23:21:27 <glx> Ammler: I'd blame the patch 23:31:47 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 23:37:25 *** lessthanthree [lt3@d75-154-187-134.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 23:50:11 *** pjpe [ae5f3e85@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 23:51:20 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.183.216] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 23:56:14 *** noclue [~d4546db6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd