Log for #openttd on 27th August 2011:
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02:02:23  <bobingabout> Hello
02:07:44  <bobingabout> anyone alive in here?
02:08:02  <Markk> Yep.
02:08:40  <bobingabout> know anything about SDL?
02:08:56  <Pinkbeast> I eagerly await the connection to OTTD
02:14:03  <bobingabout> fine... better question does anyone know where i should go to ask questions about SDL?
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02:25:52  <bobingabout> so what does openTTD use for graphics?
02:26:22  <glx> depends on OS
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02:33:44  <bobingabout> does it use SDL?
02:34:03  <pjpe> no
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02:35:24  <glx> on linux it does
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02:36:10  <pjpe> that guy doesn't know it
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02:56:00  <pjpe>
02:56:09  <pjpe> damn i wish there was a game where you could build stuff like that
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03:32:58  <pjpe> what happens if i load like 10 town newgrfs at once
03:33:08  <pjpe> do i get a mix of them or does only one of them work
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03:56:26  <goldshadow> hi everyone
03:56:53  <goldshadow> im looking how to make a dedi server so i can play multiplayer with my friend
04:13:27  <goldshadow> no-one can answer me?
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05:29:22  <mattfury> ohai
05:32:28  <mattfury> can i work on your OTTD?
05:32:29  <mattfury> i will
05:32:31  <mattfury> now
05:38:10  <mattfury> ugh could you possibly realise openttd-1.1.2 with opengfx opensfx openmsx so idonthavetodownloadit?
05:40:08  <planetmaker> moin
05:40:51  <planetmaker> mattfury: on windows: use the installer. On linux: use your packet manager. On OSX: you need to use your brains ;-)
05:41:37  <planetmaker> and we don't bundle it as during update you usually don't need the basesets anew.
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06:04:32  <andythenorth> moofing
06:05:08  <planetmaker> moin andythenorth
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06:13:31  <andythenorth> planetmaker: do you want to commit your template patch from yesterday?
06:18:37  <planetmaker> done
06:18:54  <andythenorth> thanks
06:25:56  <andythenorth> hmm
06:26:13  <andythenorth> planetmaker: in the aluminium plant you've explicitly named the sprite layouts
06:26:23  <andythenorth> that is *significantly* easier to work with :P
06:26:26  <planetmaker> I find that better readable
06:26:29  <planetmaker> yes
06:26:43  <planetmaker> go ahead and do that everywhere ;-)
06:26:43  <peter1139> *more
06:27:12  <planetmaker> the backdraw is it really needs looking at each gfx file to decide
06:27:38  <planetmaker> or at least take a layout and compare to ingame. Thus eats time without significant advantage
06:27:47  <planetmaker> I'd only do that when I rework layouts anyway
06:27:53  <andythenorth> the fore-draw(?) is that you'd have to do that anyway to work with the code
06:28:00  <planetmaker> like for aluminium plant where I incorporated the concrete tile in the layout
06:28:27  <andythenorth> so how do I use this template? SPRITELAYOUT_GROUND_NORMAL_SNOW
06:28:30  <planetmaker> but just as a pure codechange it's pure slave work
06:28:36  <andythenorth> define a sprite layout with it?
06:28:41  <andythenorth> assigning only the ground tile?
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06:29:05  <planetmaker> like the other sprite layout templates. Just no building and building z-extend parameters
06:29:12  <andythenorth> k
06:36:50  * andythenorth wonders
06:36:54  <andythenorth> could nml compile faster?
06:40:02  <planetmaker> :-)
06:40:17  <planetmaker> probably not
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06:42:13  <mattfury> bah
06:42:16  <planetmaker> it's not like it's terribly slow either.
06:42:21  <mattfury> sux 2 use mingw32 >_<
06:42:28  <mattfury> nothing opengl will run for me
06:42:30  <planetmaker> yup. Use a better OS ;-)
06:42:39  <mattfury> hahaha
06:42:46  <mattfury> and trust you just yet?
06:42:58  <planetmaker> of course
06:43:27  <mattfury> you say heres the fix, heres the pills, go for your life
06:43:32  <mattfury> just like a monarch
06:43:40  <planetmaker> sounds like windows-way
06:43:40  <andythenorth> planetmaker: maybe I should buy a faster laptop to compile nml :P
06:43:45  <mattfury> then by the time i get there, im dead.
06:44:15  <mattfury> sorry for my narcissism
06:44:27  <andythenorth> can I teach it to use more threads?  I guess not, python doesn't like that
06:45:07  <planetmaker> hm... 8 seconds vs. 30 seconds. Indeed quite a bit slower
06:45:16  <mattfury> hehe
06:45:26  <mattfury> in ms dude ms :p
06:45:34  <planetmaker> I didn't realise it's that much andythenorth :-)
06:45:35  <mattfury> none of this seconds bs.
06:45:41  <planetmaker> mattfury: no. seconds
06:45:45  <planetmaker> you miss what we talk about
06:46:04  <planetmaker> I'm not talking about your mingw stuff ;-)
06:46:43  <planetmaker> it would require me to install windows in the first place... ;-)
06:47:46  <planetmaker> andythenorth: I fear that's the price we pay for our comfort
06:48:19  <planetmaker> assembler compilers are also faster (are they?)
06:51:07  <planetmaker> andythenorth: try 'make -j3' or similar, maybe -j5 or -j7
06:51:19  <planetmaker> though... might not do much...
06:51:24  <planetmaker> it seems. drat
06:51:47  <planetmaker> multi-threading NML is - as opposed to openttd - easier, I guess.
06:51:52  <planetmaker> But still a pain ;-)
06:52:06  <mattfury> multi-core support?
06:52:16  <mattfury> hmmm interesting
06:52:17  <mattfury> ;D
06:52:36  <planetmaker> yes.
06:52:50  <mattfury> sounds so primitive
06:52:56  <planetmaker> but... not feasible w/o rewriting parts of the game's core
06:52:58  <mattfury> what about ESXi support?
06:53:00  <mattfury> ;)
06:53:25  <mattfury> no i havent even looked at it yet
06:53:32  <mattfury> people keep compiling tasks for me to do
06:53:34  <mattfury> >_>
06:53:44  <planetmaker> good :-P
06:53:55  <mattfury> task 1-9999999 per day lol.
06:54:06  <andythenorth> planetmaker: do your timings include 'make clean'
06:54:16  <planetmaker> andythenorth: no
06:54:20  <andythenorth> I have a script that runs make clean && make install always
06:54:23  <andythenorth> it reduces....problems
06:54:30  <planetmaker> just use make install
06:55:04  <andythenorth> there was a time when deps weren't reliably seen as changed.  Is that fixed afaik?
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06:55:41  <mattfury> mmm soothing medication.
06:55:55  <mattfury> the latest ones too
06:56:10  <planetmaker> works for me, andythenorth
06:56:14  <planetmaker> you might use it differently
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06:56:59  <planetmaker> anyhow: make clean takes 1.7s here. that is small compared to 30s compile time
06:57:59  <andythenorth> make install for me is 16.7s
06:58:01  <andythenorth> so not that long
06:58:05  <andythenorth> maybe I'm just impatient
06:58:17  <planetmaker> make clean && make install thus should be 19s or so
06:59:28  <planetmaker> well, grfcodec was faster, no doubt. But not much one can do about this difference, I guess
06:59:44  <planetmaker> NML grew and that eats quite a bit
06:59:53  <planetmaker> grfcodec needs to do no code generation
07:00:02  <planetmaker> it just crunches the hex numbers
07:00:08  <planetmaker> and inlines the images
07:00:17  <planetmaker> which probably eats most time there
07:01:14  <planetmaker> andythenorth: the only time make fails for me is when I remove dependencies
07:01:22  <planetmaker> which is the expected behaviour
07:01:34  <planetmaker> then I need to run make remake
07:01:45  <planetmaker> && make install
07:02:36  <planetmaker> hm... newgrf scan window
07:02:43  <planetmaker> a sight I still have to get used to :-)
07:02:53  <andythenorth> I need to remove some of my 400 grfs :P
07:03:01  <planetmaker> only 400?
07:03:09  <planetmaker> that's about half of mine and 1/3 of rb ;-)
07:03:31  <andythenorth> so using -j3 or -j5 switches gets me a 0.2s improvement
07:03:33  <andythenorth> meh
07:03:42  <planetmaker> yeah, I noticed. Quite pointless
07:04:21  <planetmaker> hm... <3 rivers :-)
07:04:22  <andythenorth> and wrt multi-threading, afaik python apps need to be explicitly designed to support multi-threading
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07:04:33  <andythenorth> and it's limited in scope
07:04:33  <planetmaker> as every app
07:04:53  <planetmaker> but some parts of NML from a global perspective should be feasible to thread
07:05:25  <Wolf01> bad morning :|
07:05:30  <andythenorth> it's not that slow to build FIRS tbh
07:05:38  <planetmaker> I wish you a good one nevertheless, Wolf01 :-)
07:05:45  <andythenorth> for a long time - due to some makefile issues -the nfo build was >20s
07:07:35  <planetmaker> hm... I wonder what we do wrong and where with industries: the custom ground tiles only appear after some time
07:08:08  <Terkhen> good morning
07:08:29  <planetmaker> andythenorth: but you didn't add the snows tracks as overlay, but you included the whole snow with aluminum plant, did you?
07:08:36  <planetmaker> Or do I have an old version? Hm...
07:08:38  <planetmaker> moin Terkhen
07:08:51  <andythenorth> planetmaker: 'only appear after some time' ??
07:09:03  <planetmaker> yes. Fund an industry and watch it
07:09:06  <andythenorth> you mean after some game days
07:09:07  <planetmaker> in FF
07:09:10  <andythenorth> construction stages
07:09:19  <planetmaker> so... ground is constructed after buildings?
07:09:23  <andythenorth> dunno
07:09:27  <andythenorth> never used construction stages
07:09:35  * andythenorth tries
07:10:09  <andythenorth> I see the same issue
07:10:40  <andythenorth> with aluminium plant
07:11:18  <andythenorth> and lime kiln
07:11:21  <planetmaker> yes, that's what I talk about. But probably others.
07:11:45  <andythenorth> so one possible cause - I think it's wrong though - it's snow returning to cover bulldozed ground?
07:11:49  <andythenorth> I think that's not the case
07:11:58  <andythenorth> I think it's a construction stage issue in the template
07:12:05  <andythenorth> but I didn't read code....
07:12:38  <planetmaker> builder's yard doesn't suffer from it
07:12:42  <andythenorth> no
07:13:13  <Wolf01> aahahahah lol, the guy with red eyes looks alike a real life mob
07:13:48  <Terkhen> :O
07:13:52  <Terkhen> we have construction stage templates?
07:14:13  <planetmaker> btw... while you're at it, andythenorth... could you use the snow tracks as from builder's yard? They look better on snow than the full snow tracks
07:14:27  <planetmaker> I thought you changed that on aluminum plant... but... seems not
07:14:39  <andythenorth> I only changed a small bit of snow there
07:14:52  <planetmaker> the snow still sticks out quite a bit. Or is that me when looking on the tile large-scale?
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07:15:02  <andythenorth> I have no problem with changing - needs a ticket though
07:15:03  <planetmaker> I suggest to always use the tracks as in builder's yard
07:15:13  <andythenorth> it's not a savegame break?
07:15:15  <planetmaker> no
07:15:18  <planetmaker> just gfx
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08:39:25  <mattfury> is there anyway to turn off the buzzing chainsaw noise?
08:39:31  <mattfury> >:/
08:39:42  <planetmaker> disable sound
08:39:43  <Alberth> yes
08:39:56  <mattfury> i dont want to disable sound, just the chainsaw noise
08:39:57  <Alberth> write a newgrf that overrides the sound
08:39:57  <planetmaker> hm... alberth's answer is correcter than mine ;-)
08:40:00  <mattfury> pissing me off
08:40:20  <Alberth> don't open a viewport near a sawmill :p
08:41:01  <Wolf01> once I was working on a sound options patch to disable level crossing's sounds but not others, I don't remember why I didn't keep that patch
08:41:29  <confound> you decided you liked level crossings after all
08:41:37  * andythenorth proposes adding a mute every industry
08:41:43  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22847 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r22816): Wagons shall not be processed by autorenew.
08:41:45  <Alberth> make a better sound, and replace it in opensfx
08:41:45  <andythenorth> so they can be muted one by one
08:42:08  <planetmaker> Wolf01: there is such newgrf. so no need for a patch iirc
08:42:25  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22848 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Add: The missing bits in station variable 43.
08:42:46  <Wolf01> but I wanted to make it extensible like I did for display options
08:43:25  <Alberth> too many sounds?
08:44:15  <Wolf01> no, I think at some point were introduced the grfs sounds
08:46:25  <Wolf01> but if you want to disable a newgrf industry sound, you need to do it from the newgrf side, so a parameter or an addin to that grf
08:46:52  <mattfury> my data dir has no grfs
08:47:11  <mattfury> is opensfx stored in the .~/openttd/?
08:47:22  <planetmaker> no
08:47:27  <Wolf01> maybe you downloaded all the content from bananas?
08:47:28  <planetmaker> that dir doesn't exist
08:47:38  <planetmaker> maybe ~/.openttd exists
08:48:06  <mattfury> found it
08:48:18  <mattfury> how do i open
08:48:21  <mattfury> rar doesnt
08:48:28  <Alberth> lol!
08:48:34  <Wolf01> eheh
08:48:51  <planetmaker> hahaha :-)
08:48:59  <mattfury> or will i need a new md5 hash for the cat file?
08:49:00  <mattfury> :/
08:49:08  <mattfury> making it insecure etc.,
08:49:18  <planetmaker> you might need catcodec
08:50:12  <planetmaker> you could also simply get a checkout of the opensfx repository, change the source to not use that sound, compile it and be happy
08:50:33  <planetmaker> would be easier than to first decompile it
08:50:49  <mattfury> blargh command line util
08:50:51  <mattfury> :[
08:50:54  <mattfury> oh well
08:51:02  * planetmaker wonders why people always consider de-compilation, for newgrfs and any other content the way to go than rather looking for the source...
08:51:03  <Alberth>  <-- sources
08:51:28  <planetmaker> especially in an open-source environment...
08:51:37  <planetmaker> people obviously have been taught wrongly for years...
08:52:22  <mattfury> An error occured: Could not open src/wav/ for writing
08:52:34  <mattfury> and i have openttd closed
08:52:38  <mattfury> = permission error?
08:52:45  <mattfury> or encrypted files?
08:53:12  <Alberth> mattfury: OPEN source, what use would encryption be?
08:53:32  <mattfury> not even using keys?
08:53:42  * Alberth guesses you are missing a directory in that path
08:53:54  <mattfury> the https connection = insecure btw
08:54:07  <__ln__> insecure how?
08:55:10  <Alberth> mattfury: keys?  you mean the md5sum?  that's just for integrity checking, you can download md5sum programs
08:55:57  <mattfury> wait
08:56:13  <mattfury> chrome for me identifies it was an insecure connection
08:56:31  <mattfury> oh wait misread
08:56:35  <mattfury> connectoin is not compressed
08:57:48  <__ln__> you still misread
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09:08:31  <mattfury> i found you bastard noise
09:08:40  <Ammler> there is google adsense on that page, which might confuse your obvious stupid secure check
09:08:43  <mattfury> osfx_40.wav >_>
09:08:47  <mattfury> DIE
09:08:49  <mattfury> :p
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09:15:28  * Alberth quickly copies oxsf_40.wav
09:15:51  <mattfury> gah if i ever here that noise in ottd..
09:16:03  <mattfury> >.>
09:18:23  <__ln__> "here"?
09:19:40  <planetmaker> Alberth: I have copies. Free for everyone :-) And with vigilant guards which take care of sound murderers ;-)
09:20:33  <Alberth> phew :D
09:20:44  <Alberth> __ln__: s/here/hear/ I think
09:22:13  <__ln__> would match with 'noise'
09:23:11  <mattfury> bah
09:23:12  <mattfury> anyways
09:23:28  <mattfury> so how many mirrors of this one sound file do you have?
09:23:33  <mattfury> :p
09:25:32  <Terkhen> too many
09:25:55  <Terkhen> your best bet is finding or creating a better sound that is compatible with the license of opensfx
09:26:00  <Terkhen> and then ask to replace it
09:26:35  <mattfury> open-sfx assuming gpl?
09:26:56  <planetmaker> a simple look at its license information would tell you the answer
09:26:59  <planetmaker> Which is 'no'
09:27:09  <mattfury> gah
09:27:16  <mattfury> i dont want to read it
09:27:38  <planetmaker> I don't want to hear moaning of too lazy people complaining about stuff they could know in 5 seconds
09:27:39  <Alberth> we don't want to look up the answer
09:28:01  * planetmaker hugs Alberth
09:28:12  * Alberth hugs planetmaker
09:28:47  <__ln__> hmm... i wonder how much would it cost to order a complete sound set from Michael Winslow
09:29:03  <planetmaker> ask him
09:29:27  <__ln__> or his agent
09:29:28  <Alberth> don't forget to mention that you aim to distribute it for free over the entire world :p
09:29:31  <mattfury> ask me how long it would take to edit in audacity?
09:29:51  <mattfury> and then my efforts for one sound file.
09:29:52  <planetmaker> quite honestly, it wouldn't hurt, __ln__ :-)
09:30:05  <mattfury> that has haunted me for the beginning of time
09:30:06  <planetmaker> and at best ask him to allow to use GPL
09:30:25  <__ln__>
09:30:32  * planetmaker still wants a GPL soundset
09:30:42  <Alberth> mattfury: nah, wav files don't exist yet for >= 2000 years
09:31:04  <Alberth> nor do we have chainsaws that long :p
09:32:25  <planetmaker> :-)
09:40:13  <mattfury> tell me
09:40:24  <mattfury> how do this sound to the original?
09:40:26  <mattfury>
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09:40:51  <mattfury> i think its -20db noisier
09:42:38  <Alberth> it does not want to give me the file
09:50:24  <mattfury> ok try this link
09:50:25  <mattfury>
09:54:59  <Alberth> it wants me to have cookies
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10:18:07  <mattfury> eh sorry im busy atm
10:18:19  <mattfury> may set up a ftpd later k
10:20:26  <Alberth> I am not the guy you need to convince, you could perhaps add an issue to the project
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10:33:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22849 /trunk/src/ (engine_type.h ship_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Add ShipVehicleInfo::ApplyWaterClassSpeedFrac() to apply ocean/canal speed fractions to velocities.
10:34:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22850 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Feature: Display separate ocean and canal speeds in the ship purchase list, if they differ.
10:35:27  <Wolf01> nice feature
10:43:14  <andythenorth> |  hmm
10:43:29  <andythenorth> maybe today is a FISH day? :o
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11:45:31  <Christian> hi, is there an option, to hide outdated vehicles? i.e. steam trains when diesel are available?
11:46:18  <Alberth> technically they are not outdated, as you can still buy them
11:46:48  <Christian> yes, that's true. But I never do buy them, so it would be nice to be able to hide them
11:47:52  <Alberth> yeah, but computers are very bad at reading the mind of their users, so it does not know what you consider outdated.
11:48:11  <Christian> So that is not possible?
11:48:20  <Alberth> I would not know how
11:48:25  <Christian> ok
11:48:53  <Alberth> you could sort them in a more useful order perhaps
11:50:05  <Alberth> I do that with bridges and town directory lists :)
11:52:24  <planetmaker> Christian: make sure you have the setting "vehicles_never_expire" set to "no"
11:53:17  <planetmaker> it won't help you with already existing vehicles, though
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11:53:22  <planetmaker> ah. well
11:53:44  <Alberth> it does not really help with your average vehicle newgrf
11:54:07  <planetmaker> well... it *should* as the old, obsolete vehicles won't be available for purchase anymore
11:54:23  <planetmaker> i.e. you won't have steam engines in the AsiaStar era
11:54:45  <Alberth> it does of course, but not enough (they have tooooo many engines imho)
11:55:07  <Alberth> but I guess that's the point of those grfs :)
11:55:13  <planetmaker> :-)
11:55:40  <planetmaker> yeah, it's somewhat difficult to find a good balance. Esp. as every player has other needs. Or maybe even every map
11:56:37  <planetmaker> maybe one could add a checkbox in the vehicle list :-)
11:56:54  <planetmaker> but it'd need probably doing by one of those people who constantly have too many vehicles ;-)
11:57:16  <Alberth> and save the boxes to disk :)
11:59:07  <planetmaker> hm... good question about the 'where'
12:00:26  <Alberth> I am currently learning aircraft to fly from A to B:   :)
12:01:26  <planetmaker> I heart that flying is easy ;-)
12:01:40  <planetmaker> just the transition ground -> air and esp. air -> ground needs skill :-P
12:02:27  <planetmaker> and... why do you do plane paths in python?
12:03:09  <Alberth> easier experimenting, it's an interactive program, point A is connected to the mouse
12:03:16  <planetmaker> :-)
12:06:07  <Alberth> but roughly 70% of the area is not covered yet (8 starting directions is a lot)
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12:28:50  <SpComb> ah nice, you're looking at a city, wondering how to fit in a station, 'cause there's a factory in the way.. then said factory announce inmittent closure :)
12:29:26  <planetmaker> :-)
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12:31:12  <Alberth> sometimes you are lucky :)
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12:51:59  <andythenorth> 2 FIRS tickets left for 0.7 :P
12:52:11  <andythenorth> 71 closed
12:53:14  <Alberth> nice
12:53:33  <planetmaker> \o/
12:53:55  <andythenorth> the last 2 tickets I don't really fancy :(
12:55:23  <SpComb> just close them as "cannot reproduce"
12:57:00  <Alberth> or "wont implement" or target them for 2.0   :p
12:57:18  <andythenorth> they need to get changed :P
12:57:31  <andythenorth> one of them is this :P
12:57:31  <andythenorth>
12:58:22  <andythenorth> hmm
12:58:32  <andythenorth> where is the canonical list of newgrf cargo labels now?
12:58:52  <andythenorth> has MB accepted the existence of the newgrf wiki?
12:59:02  <andythenorth> or is the ttdp wiki still canonical for cargo labels?
12:59:27  <Alberth> that would be silly imho
13:00:08  <andythenorth> hmm
13:00:55  <andythenorth> links to newgrf wiki
13:00:56  <andythenorth> so that's ok
13:01:25  <andythenorth> right
13:01:38  <andythenorth> so for sugar beet and sugar cane: BEET and CANE?
13:01:44  <andythenorth> or SGBT and SGCN
13:03:22  * andythenorth decides BEET / CANE
13:03:22  <Alberth> latter seem more specific and thus better imho
13:03:57  <andythenorth> oh
13:03:58  <andythenorth> ok
13:04:01  <andythenorth> I'm easy
13:04:08  <Alberth> or should cargoes be as general as possible?
13:04:20  <andythenorth> it doesn't matter
13:04:34  <andythenorth> it's just a label
13:04:35  <andythenorth> :)
13:04:50  <andythenorth> the only one that matters is BEER
13:04:56  <Alberth> ie suppose I have another  * BEET cargo, should I map to yours?
13:05:11  <andythenorth> probably not
13:05:13  <andythenorth> when will HQ accept BEER?
13:05:54  <Alberth> some devs already do
13:06:44  <Alberth> you changed many strings!
13:08:39  <andythenorth> think we changed a lot of strings with nml conversion :P
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13:18:18  <SmatZ> duke nukem!
13:18:27  <andythenorth> hmm
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13:20:38  <andythenorth> the sugar cargo is a PITA
13:21:54  <Alberth> convert to BEER
13:22:12  <SmatZ> :D
13:22:54  <planetmaker> andythenorth: the canonical wiki now is
13:23:14  <planetmaker> ;-)
13:25:18  <planetmaker> and river shores are a pita
13:28:47  <Alberth> nothing a river of BEER cannot fix :p
13:28:52  <andythenorth> planetmaker: got time to discuss the sugar cargo?
13:29:10  <Alberth> STR_ERR_INCOMPATIBLE_PARAM_CITIYSET  <-- s/IY/Y/ ?
13:29:35  <planetmaker> probably, yes, Alberth
13:29:42  <planetmaker> andythenorth: what's the issue with it?
13:29:54  <planetmaker> iirc you wanted to split it... so the decision is just which label to use, right?
13:30:02  <andythenorth> it fragments lots of code
13:30:09  <andythenorth> we need climate checks all over the place
13:30:18  <planetmaker> hm, where / why?
13:30:40  <andythenorth> nml appears to use actual cargo label in tiles, industry action 0
13:31:12  <planetmaker> hm, yes
13:31:27  <planetmaker> all industries...
13:31:35  <planetmaker> and tiles
13:32:01  * andythenorth wonders if that could be templated :P
13:32:31  <andythenorth> or done with cb
13:32:35  <andythenorth> on construction
13:32:49  <planetmaker> hm... *that* might be the interesting approach
13:33:19  <planetmaker> sounds easiest to me
13:34:01  <andythenorth> or we declare that it's fine to use one label
13:34:08  <planetmaker> :-)
13:34:13  <andythenorth> but that seems a bit limited for vehicle support
13:34:30  <planetmaker> I've no strong opinion either way
13:34:51  <planetmaker> but you nearly got me convinced that two labels is the better approach
13:35:04  <planetmaker> I suggest to try the CB approach
13:35:13  <planetmaker> we might have use for that anyway when implementing economies
13:35:33  <andythenorth> well we could make the vehicle set authors check climate if they want 'accurate' graphics
13:36:31  <planetmaker> that's bad
13:36:39  <andythenorth> is a change of label / string a savegame break?
13:37:03  <planetmaker> changing a stringID?
13:37:10  <planetmaker> nope
13:37:17  <planetmaker> changing a cargolabel? Yes
13:39:20  <andythenorth> hmm
13:39:51  <andythenorth> if we don't split them, as far as I can see the climate-specific strings for Beet / Cane are MIA
13:39:55  <andythenorth> so we have to do work either way
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14:03:53  <SpComb> uwe's v6 is broken again :(
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14:39:39  <SpComb> yacd plays funny games.. a big and medium-size city next to eachother.. one moment, they have zero traffic between them, the next, plenty :)
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14:50:25  <Ammler> and the next?
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15:01:54  <SpComb> seems to be stable now
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15:39:41  <SpComb> loan paid off o/
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15:44:12  <fjb|mobile> Moin
16:27:24  <Wolf01> hello fjb|mobile
16:28:29  <fjb|mobile> Moin Wolf01
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16:46:33  <SpComb> oh shit, a blimp!
16:48:26  <Jen> :O
16:48:27  <Jen> where?!
16:53:05  <Alberth> perhaps in his game :)
16:54:28  <Jen> Perhaps, but does that really necessitate exclamations here? ;)
16:54:34  <SpComb> dunno
16:54:55  <SpComb> first time I've seen a random blimp for years
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16:56:01  <Jen> likewise
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17:08:01  <sjaak> hi
17:10:13  <Alberth> hi
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17:10:35  <Jen> Well, that as brief
17:10:36  <Jen> *was
17:10:38  <fjb|mobile> Moin
17:10:58  <Alberth> it happens often for some reason
17:11:05  <fjb|mobile> :-(
17:11:19  <Alberth> moin fjb|mobile
17:11:54  <fjb|mobile> Moin Alberth
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17:22:32  <Jen> moin?
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17:26:27  <Alberth> a 'hello-like' greeting
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17:27:13  <Alberth>
17:27:28  <pjpe> ah the best parts of summer
17:27:29  <pjpe> baseball
17:27:32  <pjpe> and the little league world series
17:27:43  <Jen> The Amy Pond Show is on at 7pm <3
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17:45:31  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22851 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
17:45:31  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:31  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnau
17:45:31  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by planetmaker
17:45:31  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: serbian - 2 changes by etran
17:45:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: spanish - 2 changes by Terkhen
17:45:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 12 changes by nglekhoi
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19:57:26  <andythenorth> arp
19:57:31  <andythenorth> should I play a game?
20:02:31  <Alberth> the game of 'lying horizontally in a bed with your eyes closed'?
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20:08:05  <andythenorth> what happens if I play a non-yacd game?
20:08:13  <andythenorth> do I get bored?
20:08:48  <andythenorth> I don't get rivers for starters
20:12:57  <andythenorth> hmm
20:13:04  <andythenorth> rivers are way to easy to destroy :P
20:13:49  <AlexWorX> bc their free rivers on every way
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20:18:52  * andythenorth uses the power of newgrf developer tools :P
20:19:01  <andythenorth> to adjust running costs in game
20:29:02  <andythenorth> shame I can't use newgrf developer tools to make locks that are 1 or 2 tiles  :\
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20:43:11  <andythenorth> meh
20:43:23  <supermop_> ?
20:43:30  <andythenorth> rivers are of little gameplay value
20:43:39  <supermop_> look neat?
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20:43:45  <supermop_> free canals?
20:43:45  <andythenorth> now I am trying to use them instead of just looking at them :P
20:43:51  <andythenorth> they're not free canals
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20:44:33  <supermop_> if a much of towns are placed near rivers they are usable
20:44:50  <andythenorth> your canals comment is not far from the truth
20:45:06  <andythenorth> rivers are useful, as long as you rebuild them mostly as canals :P
20:45:45  <supermop_> well many navigable waterways have hadd a lot of work done on them
20:46:11  <andythenorth> doesn't help gameplay much though :P
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20:51:42  <andythenorth> meh
20:51:59  <andythenorth> ~£100,000 to canalise a river for about 30 tiles
20:52:19  <andythenorth> a railroad same distance is about £22k
20:54:48  <pjpe> making a canal is far more expensive than building a railroad i'd think
20:55:53  <andythenorth> ach
20:55:56  <andythenorth> it's a train game anyway
20:56:01  <andythenorth> I keep forgetting that :o
20:57:26  <pjpe> not our fault trains are cool
20:57:57  <andythenorth> it ought to be someone's fault
20:57:59  <andythenorth> who do I blame?
20:58:19  <pjpe> uh
20:58:22  <pjpe> let's see
20:58:24  <pjpe> hmm
20:58:34  <pjpe> blame hitler
20:58:38  <pjpe> what's he gonna do
20:58:39  <pjpe> he's dead
20:59:37  <andythenorth> hmm
20:59:48  <jonty-comp> he's not dead, he's in a cupboard
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21:15:55  <andythenorth> so really, £5,060 to build 1 tile of canal?
21:15:58  <andythenorth> I thought that was fixed?
21:16:04  <andythenorth> £140 to build rail on the same tile
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21:21:53  <Ammler> sounds like the price for rivers
21:22:22  <andythenorth> it's dumb and probably a mistake :)
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21:22:42  <andythenorth> Terkhen reset costs on canals a year or more ago
21:27:25  <supermop_> yeah i thik thy are still expensive
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21:35:20  <pjpe> switzerland seems like a nice place to live
21:35:27  <pjpe> full of trains
21:35:28  <pjpe> and trams
21:42:26  <SpComb> and snow
21:42:32  <SpComb> that the trains drive through
21:42:34  <SpComb> sexeh
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21:44:15  <pjpe> all i need is a job
21:44:20  <pjpe> that will pay me
21:44:21  <pjpe> to be there
21:44:29  <pjpe> that's the hard part
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21:57:48  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:08:43  <Sacro> do I use -j8, or -j16
22:08:44  <Sacro> hmm
22:08:46  <Sacro> or -j4
22:12:05  <supermop_> waiting for hurricanes is boring
22:14:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm all for developing roadtypes and stuff... but i have my serious doubts that Leanden has the proper technical knowledge/abilities to pull that off...
22:15:47  <Yexo> I'm quite sure he doesn't have that
22:16:33  <Yexo> which is exactly why I'm not evern trying to contribute anything to that topic
22:18:02  <Yexo> from what I've seen so far he has just copied the railtype spec wiki page and changed "rail" to "road" everywhere
22:19:11  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what you get when you have a person of the category diligent/stupid
22:21:22  <Eddi|zuHause> (on the Moltke scale)
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22:33:31  <pjpe>
22:33:35  <pjpe> does anyone know what the hell this is
22:33:42  <pjpe> did someone just make a mockup of some
22:33:45  <pjpe> new way of displaying graphics
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22:34:36  <Yexo> looks like random mockup
22:34:46  <Yexo> or gui from openttd pasted over graphics from some other game
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22:35:53  <pjpe> how strange
22:36:25  <planetmaker> iirc it's an old mock-up
22:36:32  <Eddi|zuHause> wow, i haven't seen that picture in ages.
22:36:41  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's a part of a series of mock-ups
22:36:51  <Eddi|zuHause> there was another one with fog and stuff
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22:59:36  <frosch123> pjpe: that's a famour mockup by richk from 2006 or so
22:59:46  <frosch123> there is a whole topic on the forums with such mockups
23:00:52  <pjpe> weird that some random person was using it to advertise their server on a random blog that like 5 people must read
23:01:52  <frosch123> well, this one was actually the best one in that topic :)
23:02:32  <peter1139> 32bpp will allow that right?
23:04:03  <pjpe> not at that angle
23:04:06  <pjpe> or perspective
23:05:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm quite sure he was sarcastic :p
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23:22:43  <planetmaker> g'night
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