Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:06:32 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db1a1bd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 00:39:42 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-108-48.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:42:40 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-158-233.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:24:40 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:32:15 *** fjb [~frank@p57941EDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:02:43 *** Xaroth_ [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 02:04:28 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:25:42 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-213-161.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:31:32 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-253-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:45:13 *** PhoenixII [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 02:47:02 *** PhoenixII [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:47:15 *** PhoenixII [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 02:47:20 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:49:24 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:b414:6fac:e89d:3e01] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:58:09 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 03:01:14 *** PhoenixII [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:29:01 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFDEAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:40:36 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-250-245.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 04:51:08 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-250-245.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B727B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B72C35.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:30:22 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ff1cc000-21.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:52:22 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:09:56 <__ln__> buenos dÃas señores pasajeros 06:13:49 *** pjpe [ae5f3b40@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 06:25:45 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 06:26:06 <planetmaker> moin 06:31:42 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e091fee.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:02:10 <dihedral> greetings 07:09:08 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:09:08 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:11:38 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has joined #openttd 07:16:34 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 07:18:57 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 07:32:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A212.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:39:19 <BartHoning> If I use nmlc to create my own grf, all goes well. Untill I try to create a helicopter: Unknown identifier 'AIRCRAFT_TYPE_SMALL'. Wiki tells: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Plane_properties 07:39:29 *** pjpe [ae5f42fd@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:44:13 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:44:33 <BartHoning> has anyone tried creating a helicopter? setting just 'is_helicopter' to 'AIRCRAFT_TYPE_HELICOPTER does not work: it still seems to be a plane.. 07:44:56 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 07:44:59 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 07:46:17 <BartHoning> and as soon as I set 'is_large' to AIRCRAFT_TYPE_SMALL, nmlc complains about not knowing AIRCRAFT_TYPE_SMALL.... ? 07:49:54 <planetmaker> it is ...PORT_... 07:50:33 <planetmaker> hm... 07:50:34 <planetmaker> no 07:50:59 <planetmaker> do you have the code? 07:51:18 <BartHoning> is_helicopter: AIRCRAFT_TYPE_HELICOPTER; 07:51:18 <BartHoning> is_large: AIRCRAFT_TYPE_SMALL; 07:51:20 <planetmaker> i.e. a file I could try compile to a grf? 07:51:34 <BartHoning> does not compile Unknown identifier 'AIRCRAFT_TYPE_SMALL' 07:52:17 <BartHoning> erm... 07:52:33 <planetmaker> and which NML version do you use? 07:53:07 <BartHoning> r1653 (pil 1.1.7, ply 3.4) 07:53:42 <BartHoning> I know the grf is basically allright, it flies perfectly as a plane 07:57:51 *** pjpe [ae5f42fd@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 08:00:54 <planetmaker> so... do you now expect me to write my own plane or do you make it easy for me to test and give me yours? 08:03:07 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ff1cc000-21.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 08:06:55 <BartHoning> http://www.nippyzip.com/uploads/110902040611-08345.zip 08:07:54 <BartHoning> There is a zip with the example I followed from the wiki in it. Graphics are not done at all etc. 08:10:38 <BartHoning> I adjusted it, to create a plane, that worked fine (flying truck, lol) but since I am trying to create a zep, I thought it would be better to see it as a helicopter. 08:10:42 <planetmaker> AIRCRAFT_size_SMALL instead of _type_ 08:11:52 <BartHoning> ah, ok, ill try that.. 08:14:47 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-044-023.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 08:15:18 <planetmaker> in caps, though 08:17:55 <BartHoning> Yes, it does compile allright, but the new version still behaves like a normal airplane? 08:18:07 <BartHoning> and not like a helicopter? Hmmm.. 08:18:28 <planetmaker> hm... still as plane 08:19:37 <planetmaker> right. It's an NML bug. Constants for is_helicopter are swapped 08:19:54 <planetmaker> for now use 0 as property value 08:20:02 <peter1138> heh 08:20:41 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 08:23:19 <planetmaker> if you use NML from a repository, it's fixed now, BartHoning 08:24:01 <planetmaker> alternatively, update NML in about 8 hours 08:25:27 <BartHoning> it works fine as a helicopter now :) 08:26:06 <BartHoning> is there any way to remove the spinning-rotor effect? (since I am trying to create a blimp) 08:26:48 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 08:37:33 <planetmaker> I don't find anything obvious... though there surely is 08:40:27 *** pjpe [ae5f4224@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:46:38 <Terkhen> good morning 08:47:39 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-108-48.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:10:58 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:13:43 <TheHog> Terkhen, planetmaker: could you please take a look at my 2-feeder patch again? http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4154 09:14:18 <TheHog> I hope I can convince you both to accept and commit the patch.. Yexo's standpoint is clear 09:14:53 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A212.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:15:40 <TheHog> the latest patch only kicks in if the vehicle is 'transfering && loading' at a station.. the config which currently isn't used because of the current 2-way feeding 'bug' 09:21:50 *** pjpe [ae5f4224@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:27:16 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:28:55 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:28:57 <Terkhen> I don't get the code, I never checked that part in detail 09:29:26 <Terkhen> what does it do? it uses the vehicle order list to decide if cargo can be picked or not? 09:30:48 <TheHog> indeed 09:31:29 <TheHog> the cargo itselves decided if it is allowed to be loaded on the vehicle based uppon the order list of the vehicle 09:31:44 <TheHog> only if the vehicle is transfering and loading at the current station 09:32:33 <TheHog> if the cargo was just loaded at a station from the order list, or it original from such station,.. then it is not loaded 09:34:11 <TheHog> Yexo's standpoint is that it does not fix all situations and that is true, however it fixes most of all feeding cases so I would like to see it committed 09:34:20 <TheHog> to fix it all we need cargodst 09:35:16 <planetmaker> IMHO Yexo's argument is quite valid. Fixing it for some but not for all cases will only make solutions like cargod*st more difficult 09:35:31 <Terkhen> yes, I said that it would conflict with future destination patches which also fix the issue 09:35:42 <planetmaker> ok, maybe you did :-) 09:35:43 <Terkhen> you might want to ask michi_cc or fonsinchen about this 09:36:24 <TheHog> why them? 09:36:37 <planetmaker> they write the cargod*st patches 09:36:38 <Terkhen> michi_cc develops YACD, fonsinchen develops cargodist 09:36:48 <TheHog> k 09:37:20 <TheHog> but cargodist is so much different than the original game 09:37:54 <TheHog> this patch is only a fix for a often reported bug 09:38:10 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-244-221.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 09:38:24 <TheHog> someone playing with cargodist will need to learn how to play it all over again 09:38:42 <planetmaker> it would just move the bug reports to the left-out edge cases 09:40:45 <TheHog> how far is cargodist from finished? 09:41:04 <Terkhen> it is possible that the code of a future destination code committed to trunk can be used to fix this issue in normal games too, but the commit of your code means that any future destination patch must either remove the code, work around it or use it even if it is not ideal 09:42:01 <Terkhen> or "do not commit something that will be changed or removed in the future" 09:43:45 <TheHog> ok.. then hopefully fonsinchen has time to talk with me about this 09:43:48 <TheHog> or michi_cc 09:44:02 <TheHog> maybe we can merge both with my patch so they don't conflict 09:47:34 <Eddi|zuHause> well, technically, either of these patches have the ability to disable the destinations, so the transfer problem would still exist then 09:48:29 <TheHog> then my patch would help in that case also I think.. 09:49:03 <TheHog> let me study the yacd and cargodst code tonight and I hope I can contact michi_cc and fonsinchen soon 09:49:28 <Terkhen> in that case... do we have two separate methods or do we try to adapt the code of the destination patch to the "no destination" case? 09:51:35 <TheHog> I think we should adapt the code.. 09:52:05 <TheHog> it's not that complex so I guess it is easily merged with the cargdst and yacd code in the 'no destination' case 09:52:23 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 09:56:35 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:16:36 <planetmaker> which window has a horizontal scrollbar? 10:18:23 *** Mks [~mks@c83-176-234-98.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:18:38 *** Mks [~mks@c83-176-234-98.cust.tele2.se] has joined #openttd 10:33:59 <Eddi|zuHause> the depot? 10:34:32 <Eddi|zuHause> the train list? 10:38:23 <peter1138> 1138 o'clock! 10:38:53 <SpComb> so it is 10:38:59 <SpComb> you have your clock right for once 10:39:32 <SpComb> wait what, no, it's 1338 o'clock, nevermind 10:39:35 <SpComb> must leave for lunch --> 10:44:49 <peter1138> you smell 10:53:38 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-008-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 10:54:02 *** LordAro [569a507c@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 10:59:02 *** LordAro [569a507c@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 11:06:42 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 11:09:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B6A1.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:15:41 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-244-221.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: jpx_] 11:16:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D1E3.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:18:45 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-244-221.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 11:54:29 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e091fee.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 11:57:11 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-244-221.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: jpx_] 11:58:28 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-244-221.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 12:06:03 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:a190:5626:3aa4:7cc] has joined #openttd 12:06:06 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:23:49 *** krinn [~krinn@114.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 12:24:07 <krinn> hi all 12:24:23 <krinn> i have a "problem" with a bridge 12:25:20 <krinn> if the owner is a companyID and the company is dead, owner==-1 but still altering the bridge with AIBuild.BuildBridge return a ERR_OWNED_BY_ANOTHER_COMPANY 12:25:37 <krinn> while a town bridge also return own==-1 but it work on this one 12:26:08 <krinn> it's also strange because when company is dead && bridge.owner==-1 i cannot change the bridge but the game allow me to destroy the bridge 12:26:29 <krinn> i would have expect: when ==-1 you can destroy or rebuild over it 12:26:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably a bug... somewhere checking OWNER_TOWN and OWNER_NONE is inconsistent 12:28:07 <krinn> kinda weird as it looks like for openttd the companyID is now dead and it's ok to destroy it, but when trying to rebuild it, openttd remind the old companyID is the owner and refuse 12:40:38 <krinn> i found the bad one: 12:41:01 <krinn> static bool BuildBridge(AIVehicle::VehicleType vehicle_type, BridgeID bridge_id, TileIndex start, TileIndex end); 12:41:01 <krinn> -> * @exception AIError::ERR_OWNED_BY_ANOTHER_COMPANY 12:41:12 <krinn> this one fail 12:41:23 <Yexo> you can overbuild bridges if the owner is either your own company or a town. 12:41:38 <Yexo> note that OWNER_TOWN is different from OWNER_NONE 12:41:44 <krinn> but not if noone own it ? 12:41:46 <Eddi|zuHause> try this: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/tunnelbridge_owner_none.diff 12:42:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: yes, but it's inconsistent 12:42:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: if you can remove it and build a new bridge, you should be able to convert one as well 12:42:45 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: I completely agree with you that the current behavior is buggy 12:43:01 <Yexo> your patch looks good at first sight, just haven't checked it enough 12:43:11 <krinn> it's just i have no way to see that bridge is own by someone, as AITile.GetOwner return -1 for both case (town/dead company) 12:44:19 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe this is better: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/tunnelbridge_owner_none_2.diff 12:44:33 <Eddi|zuHause> (i hope that it does what i think it does, i haven't tested it either 12:44:36 <Eddi|zuHause> ) 12:45:05 <krinn> what are value for OWNER_TOWN & OWNER_NONE ? 12:45:21 <krinn> because as-is your patch might attrib the new bridge to me, while for now 12:45:37 <krinn> if the bridge is to a town, he will be upgrade but still the town will own it 12:45:48 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that would still be the case 12:46:21 <Eddi|zuHause> src/company_type.h: OWNER_TOWN = 0x0F, ///< A town owns the tile, or a town is expanding 12:46:23 <Eddi|zuHause> src/company_type.h: OWNER_NONE = 0x10, ///< The tile has no ownership 12:47:23 <krinn> looks even more logic so: i upgrade a bridge own by noone, so the result will be mine 12:47:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 12:47:55 <krinn> lol can't believe how fast you fix that one Eddi|zuHause :) 12:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> well it _is_ still untested... 12:48:43 <krinn> maybe, but the change appears really clear 12:50:01 <Eddi|zuHause> if you can't express a feature in <10 lines, it might not be the right way to do it :) 12:50:21 <krinn> :) 12:53:47 <krinn> it's funny i never saw it, but even humans are affect so :) 12:54:09 <krinn> never saw it while playing (i must use too much the buldozer) 12:54:43 <Yexo> krinn / eddi: if nobody does it before me I'll properly test and commit that fix tonight 12:54:58 <Yexo> right now I'm too busy with the new codecup competition 12:55:18 <krinn> test is easy, run an ai let it build a road bridge, restart the ai and as human try to rebuild a bridge over it 12:55:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: i am too busy preparing for my mother's birthday, so i probably won't test it... 12:57:30 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 13:03:37 <krinn> i'm building openttd but i have 1.1.1 source only, will answer if it work for that version (as it should) 13:13:05 <krinn> :P cannot build it, i should use the real source, these one are alter by the gentoo installer 13:13:27 <krinn> sorry can't test so 13:14:01 <Ammler> krinn: use source with vcs 13:25:44 <krinn> ok it work with 1.1.2 (i donwload the 1.1.2 source) 13:26:03 <krinn> i've test it doesn't work before reloading the ai (while the ai still own it & is a valid company) 13:26:15 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 13:26:52 <krinn> i'm also now the new owner of the bridge 13:26:56 <krinn> all fine Eddi|zuHause :) 13:29:41 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 13:30:33 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:38:34 *** APTX_ [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 13:39:41 <Belugas> hihi 13:39:53 <krinn> hi Belugas 13:40:05 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:40:23 <Belugas> sir krinn :) 13:41:18 <krinn> sir Belugas :) 13:50:24 <krinn> openttd auto remove 25£ to force company goes bankrupt at start or i must dig out where i lost that money ? 13:50:36 <krinn> (i mean with loan set to 0) 13:50:51 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, there's a fixed amount of money you lose anyway 13:51:06 <krinn> overtime or just at start ? 13:51:14 <Yexo> every year 13:52:02 <krinn> rats traders! 13:52:33 <Yexo> loan and bonuses for the management :p 13:52:44 <krinn> :D 14:20:57 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A212.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:26:45 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 14:31:58 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:38:46 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:40:42 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:22 <krinn> when creating a wagon in a depot, first one i get a valid vehicleID for it, but next ones, it fail for a reason i don't get, the wagons are create, just the AIVehicle.IsValidVehicle answer then false, got a clue? 15:21:09 *** macee [~macee@dsl54026C1A.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 15:40:04 *** macee [~macee@dsl54026C1A.pool.t-online.hu] has left #openttd [] 15:42:56 <krinn> there something really wrong with that : if (!AIObject::DoCommand(depot, engine_id, 0, ::GetCmdBuildVeh(type), NULL, &AIInstance::DoCommandReturnVehicleID)) return VEHICLE_INVALID; 15:43:51 <krinn> doc says to check the return value againt AIVehicle.IsValidVehicle, for first one it work, but others ones it fail, they get attach to the first one and i suppose the return value is then the uint of the wagon and not the vehicleID 15:48:26 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 15:49:03 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 15:50:28 <Eddi|zuHause> sorry, that one is outside my area of expertise 15:53:02 <krinn> hard to handle just to build some wagons :) 15:54:18 <Yexo> krinn: if you build a wagon two things can happen: 15:54:55 <Yexo> 1) There is only a single engine (possible with wagons attached) in the depot, your new wagon will be automatically attached to this engine. The returned VehicleID is invalid for your AI 15:55:28 <Yexo> 2) There are either no or multiple engines. Your new wagon will be in a new chain. The returned VehicleID is valid 15:55:51 <krinn> well, what i see here is 15:56:04 <krinn> 1) i have train with 1 wagon but new wagons aren't attach to it 15:56:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22868 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Change: Resize the company league window according to the company icon's size 15:56:28 <Yexo> are you using any newgrfs? They might block attaching new wagons 15:56:28 <Eddi|zuHause> the what window? 15:56:37 <krinn> 2) now that a new wagon is there, the AIVehicle.IsValidVehicle fail because i no more get a vehicleID but i think the wagon number 15:56:47 <Yexo> in that case you could end up in situation 2), in that case you should get a valid VehicleID as return value 15:56:55 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: current ranking 15:56:59 <krinn> i do use them yexo, but i test my wagon and all is fine for that 15:57:17 <Eddi|zuHause> guess i have not looked at that in ages... 15:57:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it's kinda boring when there is only one company 15:57:41 <Yexo> krinn: I don't understand your actual problem then 15:58:04 <krinn> that next wagon create report failure because i get an invalid vehicleID 15:58:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you have a misconception about what the return value means 15:59:04 <krinn> first one == validVehicleID next ones = invalidVehicleID (but i have some id return that isn't the value of an invalid vehicle ID, so i suppose some internal id for the wagon) 15:59:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host109-153-144-163.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:59:26 <andythenorth> George: hi hi 15:59:33 <Yexo> the value you get is a VehicleID as used internally by the game 15:59:43 <Yexo> however AIs are restricted in which IDs are valid for them 15:59:51 <Yexo> only the ID of the first part of a train is considered valid for AIs 16:00:11 <Yexo> but next ones are attached to your first one, right? 16:00:18 <krinn> so this is bad : The VehicleID of the new vehicle, or an invalid VehicleID when it failed. Check the return value using IsValidVehicle 16:00:22 <Yexo> if so, you can use the VehicleID of the first part to access the others 16:01:08 <Yexo> yes, that's bad 16:01:20 <andythenorth> @seen George 16:01:20 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: George was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 8 hours, 28 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <George> I thought action 7 should be used :( 16:02:23 <krinn> hmmm, the good check is check if return ID == VEHICLE_INVALID 16:02:27 <krinn> if not, it's valid 16:05:31 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22869 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Codechange: Use the same constant to set the minimum height of all widgets in the windows title bar 16:05:44 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:05:47 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 16:05:47 <krinn> i see AIVehicle::VEHICLE_INVALID is define, will check it to see 16:06:51 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 16:08:43 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-175-126.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 16:12:14 <George> andythenorth> @seen George. Yes? 16:12:40 <andythenorth> for the mine 16:12:48 <andythenorth> I already have front loader / excavator 16:12:53 <andythenorth> not sure if they are what you need 16:12:59 <andythenorth> they are in ISR stations 16:13:05 <George> In operating? 16:13:21 <andythenorth> I'll make a screenshot 16:13:51 <George> I asked about one that is in operation 16:13:59 <andythenorth> the front loader is animated in ISR 16:14:49 <George> it has / direction and faced to player AFAIR 16:15:45 <andythenorth> yes 16:15:57 <krinn> quite hard as i don't know the vehicleID the wagon is then attach to 16:16:11 <andythenorth> there is also \ direction 16:16:12 <George> And I need something to operate the rock 16:16:18 <andythenorth> hmm 16:16:36 <George> That mean it has to be faced FROM the player 16:17:45 <andythenorth> George: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/excavator.png 16:17:49 <andythenorth> this is a log loader 16:17:55 <andythenorth> it needs forks swapping to bucket 16:17:59 <andythenorth> it's not animated 16:18:08 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-108-48.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 16:18:14 <Yexo> krinn: what would you think about a change to OpenTTD so newly build rail wagons are never attached to anything? 16:18:30 <Yexo> that means you'll always get a valid VehicleID as return value 16:18:47 <krinn> it would really help 16:18:50 <andythenorth> George: that one *is* layered psd with each part on a layer 16:18:54 <krinn> or gave us the internal wagon id 16:18:55 <andythenorth> I'll send you psd 16:19:29 <Yexo> I'd rather not do that, since that will complicate the rest of the API 16:19:42 <krinn> but it's hard to solve as-is right now 16:19:51 <krinn> if i want create 1 wagon, refit it 16:20:01 <krinn> how can i know where is my wagon ? 16:20:11 <George> andythenorth: this is a log loader. It does not look like a mine excavator :( It is small 16:20:20 <krinn> it might get attach to an engine that is there, might be attach to aother previous wagon i create... 16:21:05 <krinn> i could of course seek out every vehicleID i found in that depot, this still won't tell me where my wagon is gone :) 16:21:08 <George> andythenorth: I'll send you psd Thank you 16:21:42 <andythenorth> George: you need a big face shovel or such? 16:21:55 <andythenorth> http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=face+shovel&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1191&bih=668 16:22:35 <krinn> if you have 3 vehicle: build a wagon -> where is the wagon ? for now the solve would be check all vehicleID in the depot and record their length, compare them, bigger one got the wagon, and then lol assume last wagon is the newest one 16:22:43 <George> andythenorth: Yes 16:22:50 <krinn> then detach it, refit it, and attach it to the good vehicle i wish it to be 16:23:45 <krinn> not really a "simple" way to just build a new wagon in a depot :P 16:24:02 <Yexo> I know, hence my proposal to change the behavior 16:24:27 <krinn> i agree, new engine should always get a new vehicleID 16:24:28 <andythenorth> George: if it was a lot bigger it might be too big? http://tt-foundry.com/misc/mine.png 16:24:31 <Yexo> I'm already convinced it should be changed somehow, just busy with something else right now 16:24:36 <krinn> and let the ai attach it where it wish 16:25:37 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:26:40 <George> I didn't say it shoul be much bigger. I said it should look bigger to fit with your http://tt-foundry.com/sets/heavy_equipment trucks 16:27:04 <andythenorth> hmm 16:27:14 <andythenorth> sometimes it's possible to scale up with pixel art 16:27:21 * andythenorth will try 16:29:10 <andythenorth> George: does it *need* to be animated? (and if so would you draw the needed frames)? 16:29:50 <krinn> Yexo, the most simpler solve would be having a function that gave the vehicleID a UnitNumber is attach to 16:29:53 <andythenorth> it scales up ok to 130% http://tt-foundry.com/misc/mine_2.png 16:30:00 <andythenorth> I can clean up some pixels by hand 16:30:10 <krinn> like this one, but invert : http://noai.openttd.org/docs/trunk/classAIVehicle.html#2c636c0df72394f3d7abeb1fd93b270f 16:30:32 <Yexo> you're misunderstanding that function 16:30:51 <krinn> that one gave the interal openttd id of an engine in a vehicle no ? 16:30:52 <George> andythenorth: Yes, it would be nice to have it animated. 16:31:02 <Yexo> a unit number is just an increasing number that is used to generate the "Train #<num>" numbers 16:31:14 <Yexo> it's not used anywhere by the game engine 16:31:17 <George> andythenorth: No, I did't plan to draw animation stages myself 16:31:18 <krinn> ah ok 16:31:22 <Yexo> the only id used is the VehicleID 16:31:41 <Yexo> and you already get the proper VehicleID, only AIVehicle.IsValidVehicle() limits the IDs that you can use 16:32:00 <Yexo> the VehicleID of a wagon that is attached to an engine for example is invalid for your AI due to AIVehicle.IsValidVehicle 16:32:08 <Yexo> for OpenTTD internal use that VehicleID is still used and valid 16:32:26 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-108-48.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:32:34 <Yexo> but extending the IDs that AIVehicle::IsValidVehicle() allows leads to other problems, so that's not a good solution 16:32:44 <andythenorth> George: you like the 130% version? 16:32:48 <krinn> if we could have a function that return then the AI version vehicleID of an attach openttd internal vehicleID, problem solve 16:33:06 <George> andythenorth: Yes, 150% increaase would fit well. Just place your truck nearby to see, if it fits as truck loader 16:33:24 <Yexo> krinn: either you don't want to get it or I'm not explaining it well. Either way I've already given the proper solution twice 16:33:27 * Yexo is really gone now 16:33:34 <krinn> :p 16:33:37 *** Yexo [~Yexo@178.63.83.101] has left #openttd [Leaving] 16:33:59 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.153.138.44] has joined #openttd 16:34:41 <andythenorth> George: this is 130% with truck http://tt-foundry.com/misc/mine_3.png 16:35:23 <George> Yes, that is good 16:36:37 <andythenorth> I'll clean it up 16:37:16 <George> I though about something like this http://www.tosei-global.com/technik/big/BONNY/CE460-6%200%20%282007.03.13%2017-39-03%29.jpg 16:38:52 <andythenorth> the machine, or the angle? 16:41:17 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-175-126.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:42:27 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:42:54 <George> the machine 16:50:26 <andythenorth> George: give me ~15 mins :) 16:50:43 <George> :D 16:51:00 <__ln__> http://www.google.com/trends/correlate/draw 16:54:56 *** TWerkhoven [~taede@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:55:58 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:57:55 <andythenorth> George: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/mine_4.png 16:58:04 <andythenorth> not my best art ever, but it might be enough? 16:58:40 <Alberth> it's yours 16:58:47 <planetmaker> hm? 16:59:07 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:59:12 <andythenorth> the machine is mine 16:59:19 <andythenorth> the mine is george :) 16:59:28 <andythenorth> the mine is not mine 16:59:47 <Alberth> nice mine, much more clear than a building over a hole in the ground :) 16:59:50 <George> hm. It does not look like http://www.tosei-global.com/technik/big/BONNY/CE460-6%200%20%282007.03.13%2017-39-03%29.jpg 17:00:14 <planetmaker> yep, the mine is a very nice one 17:00:40 <Alberth> it should have an animation where a part gets blown up :p 17:01:00 <andythenorth> George: swap the yellow to orange? 17:01:39 <George> I do not think the colour is wrong, but the proportions. The cabin looks too large 17:01:53 <andythenorth> ok 17:01:58 <andythenorth> I'll reduce it 17:02:34 <George> also the arm looks like ... it is in the air 17:03:02 <George> it does not look like a construction, but like ... parts 17:04:01 <andythenorth> smaller cabin http://tt-foundry.com/misc/mine_5.png 17:05:05 *** pjpe [ae5f4224@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 17:09:15 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:12:19 <George> it still looks unbalanced 17:12:54 <George> Sorry, I have to go 17:15:02 *** BartHoning [~Bart@8-79-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:15:28 <andythenorth> George: I'll pm 17:26:10 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:33:05 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-008-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:34:12 <andythenorth> how do I grep for recently created files? 17:35:25 <Ammler> andythenorth: find? 17:35:38 <Ammler> -mtime 17:35:53 <Ammler> or use hg 17:35:55 <Alberth> -ctime actually 17:36:22 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:22 <andythenorth> I am trying to figure out why my mac just played a camera sound three times 17:36:26 <andythenorth> as though taking pictures 17:36:35 * andythenorth wonders if he has malware 17:36:39 <krinn> ls -lt 17:36:53 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f561d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:37:46 <planetmaker> wrong window, krinn :-P 17:38:14 <Alberth> find / -mtime 1 -print although / as starting point may be a bit too much 17:38:33 <krinn> not really planetmaker ls -lt show files by time :p 17:38:45 <Alberth> (sorry about confusing you with -ctime) 17:38:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i always use -trl, what use is -tl without r? 17:39:03 <andythenorth> Alberth: / is the only valid option :P 17:39:24 <Alberth> same as you do with -r if you don't have sub-directories :) 17:39:26 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i think the order 17:39:28 <andythenorth> for my purpose 17:39:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and -mtime +1 or so 17:39:44 <planetmaker> ls -lt | head or | less 17:39:45 <krinn> or more like Alberth says recurse :) 17:40:17 <Eddi|zuHause> there's some weird stuff with "exactly 1", "at least 1" or "at most 1" 17:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause> find is weird... 17:40:23 <Alberth> andythenorth: hmm, maybe -1 17:40:38 <andythenorth> this may take some time :P 17:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i never remember which is which 17:40:52 <Alberth> - is less-than :) 17:41:25 <Alberth> andythenorth: check a leaf directory for the -ctime value 17:41:51 <Alberth> if you are unlucky you will just get files modified exactly 24 hours ago :p 17:41:55 <andythenorth> or I just live with malware taking pictures of me stroking my chin :P 17:42:07 <Prof_Frink> andythenorth: gaffer tape? 17:42:09 <krinn> system may alter them itself, so don't rm -rf / if you see changes :) 17:42:10 <andythenorth> wonder where it would post them too? 17:42:24 <andythenorth> to /s 17:42:46 <andythenorth> and why would malware play a sound effect? it's somewhat revealing 17:42:59 <andythenorth> probably not malware :P 17:43:18 <andythenorth> unless it's socially engineering me to ignore it 17:43:30 <krinn> you'll discover spying user is not a malware for mac, it's a feature by apple :) 17:44:07 <Eddi|zuHause> the bad thing is that this sounds actually plausible :p 17:44:29 <krinn> one guy was doing that at an apple shop 17:44:34 <krinn> taking pic of customers 17:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the same thing would have been said about microsoft 15 years ago, if webcams were widespread back then 17:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22870 /trunk/src/lang/ (greek.txt portuguese.txt unfinished/persian.txt): 17:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: greek - 5 changes by kyrm 17:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: persian - 36 changes by Peymanpn 17:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: portuguese - 1 changes by JayCity 17:45:53 <Eddi|zuHause> they had this story a few months back where they "caught" a laptop thief because the regular owner was able to log in and take photos 17:45:55 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, nearly, we would have more a gpf because of a bug in the spyware then 17:46:21 <andythenorth> I am thinking of installing that software 17:46:26 <Eddi|zuHause> and it was suspected that this was more of a marketing ploy... 17:46:49 <andythenorth> you're talking about prey and other such 17:47:29 <krinn> http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CFwQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fappleheadlines.com%2F2011%2F07%2F07%2Fman-installs-spy-camera-software-on-apple-retail-computers-secret-service-gets-involved%2F&rct=j&q=man%20take%20picture%20at%20apple%20shop&ei=GRZhTqv8Ioip4gTR1oFD&usg=AFQjCNGq_Ro7-0EjQGIYsKLyO-rsIDI5gA&cad=rja 17:47:35 <Eddi|zuHause> not remembering any names 17:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> long link is long 17:48:01 <krinn> http://appleheadlines.com/2011/07/07/man-installs-spy-camera-software-on-apple-retail-computers-secret-service-gets-involved/ 17:48:09 <krinn> for Eddi|zuHause lazyness :) 17:48:25 <andythenorth> how would you disguise the image file if you were writing malware? 17:48:28 <andythenorth> system logs? 17:48:45 <andythenorth> or hide in plain sight - in another folder full of jpg or such? 17:48:49 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, better use xchat, right click and open link, you're not really copy all links no? 17:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: no, i have a modern client that can open urls with a single click. 17:49:54 <Eddi|zuHause> that is totally not the point 17:50:14 * andythenorth can't be bothered to look in several thousand files for pictures of self :P 17:50:30 * V453000 simply does not have pictures of self for sure 17:50:34 <andythenorth> possibly you wouldn't save it, but mail it somewhere? 17:50:50 <andythenorth> mail / upload 17:52:16 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:01:23 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host26-234-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:01:40 <Wolf01> hello 18:01:47 <Alberth> hello 18:01:58 * planetmaker does have picture of V453000 :-P 18:03:39 <Eddi|zuHause> same as all others who were at r20k 18:04:10 <krinn> hi 18:05:09 <V453000> crap :D 18:11:19 <planetmaker> hm... adding two tree sprite numbers doesn't give another tree sprite number ;-) 18:11:36 <pjpe> who made the opengfx maglev station 18:11:48 <pjpe> that is hands down the best looking station in the game 18:11:51 <planetmaker> in case of doubt: zephyris 18:12:34 <V453000> monorail is nicer :) 18:13:08 <pjpe> no way 18:13:14 <planetmaker> Foobar and zephyris 18:13:55 <planetmaker> rail station is additionally also partially done by DanMacK 18:16:42 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:29:19 *** krinn [~krinn@114.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: going to watch football as he love to get ashame by his equip] 18:30:20 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:39:06 <Eddi|zuHause> btw, i learned yesterday that "hg outgoing default" makes me not type in the password, and setting "out = outgoing default" in the [alias]-section makes me save remembering the command 18:40:40 *** TWerkhoven [~taede@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:40 <andythenorth> 3 tile locks are stupid 18:46:54 <planetmaker> andythenorth: draw me different ones :-) 18:47:05 <planetmaker> you need to use three tiles, but you can make it look differently 18:47:56 <andythenorth> oh 18:48:04 <andythenorth> hmm 18:48:08 <andythenorth> kind offer, but no gain :P 18:48:57 <planetmaker> why no gain? 18:49:12 <andythenorth> still 3 tiles 18:49:13 <andythenorth> :) 18:49:50 <planetmaker> one tile? 18:50:08 <planetmaker> hm... lock or dock? 18:50:22 <planetmaker> On a 3 tile lock you can arbitrarily place things as you see fit 18:50:29 <planetmaker> thus simulate anything between 0 and 3 18:50:53 <andythenorth> locks should be 2 iles 18:50:55 <andythenorth> tiles /s 18:51:21 <Alberth> 1/2 at the first, 1 at the slope, and 1/2 at the end? 18:51:23 <planetmaker> Well. Then draw it. Feasible 18:51:28 <planetmaker> like what alberth said 18:52:16 <andythenorth> still 3 tiles though :P 18:52:53 <planetmaker> :-) 18:54:59 * andythenorth considers using the truck-feeder method to defeat stupid station ratings 18:57:29 <Terkhen> you can also implement a custom rating callback that always gives you 100% 18:57:52 <andythenorth> indeed :) 18:57:55 <andythenorth> is that cheating though 18:58:18 <Terkhen> no, then it is a decision of the NewGRF set author :P 18:59:42 <V453000> hmm :) 18:59:52 <andythenorth> can I hide the rating :P 18:59:55 <andythenorth> it annoys me 19:01:24 <Terkhen> why? I ignored it for years before I played online for the first time 19:01:38 <Terkhen> I ignored it as soon as it was higher than 70, of course :) 19:01:58 <andythenorth> mine are mostly 'very poor' 19:02:20 <planetmaker> you should use the 'full load' orders on primary industries 19:02:32 <andythenorth> I do 19:02:35 <planetmaker> it's even realistic ;-) 19:02:48 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 19:02:50 <planetmaker> then I don#t understand how you end up at 'very poor' 19:02:59 <planetmaker> you use too few trains then 19:03:04 <andythenorth> yup 19:03:22 <Eddi|zuHause> implement callback 145 19:03:23 <andythenorth> more trains will make my 2-track railroad too busy 19:03:45 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you need to time it so your train arrives exactly when the other one leaves 19:03:58 *** pjpe [ae5f4224@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 19:04:14 <andythenorth> I know how to solve it :) I just don't want to play that way 19:04:29 <Eddi|zuHause> well, then my previous comment applies :) 19:04:36 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 19:04:40 <andythenorth> yes 19:04:50 <Eddi|zuHause> you can make callback 145 always return 100% 19:05:17 <andythenorth> and then industry will always distribute 100%? 19:05:22 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 19:05:26 <planetmaker> or you devise a 'recession' economy 19:05:53 <andythenorth> or remove supplies :P 19:06:02 <Eddi|zuHause> *slap* 19:06:09 <andythenorth> it's a non-issue in default game - if ratings are low, production falls... 19:06:19 <andythenorth> FIRS allows for this lazy play style 19:14:08 <V453000> wait so you want to make station ratings high even when vehicles are not always in the station? 19:14:17 *** scn [~lkarsten@yankee.samfundet.no] has left #openttd [] 19:14:38 <andythenorth> yes 19:15:24 <V453000> jesus 19:15:29 <andythenorth> good or bad? 19:15:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 19:15:56 <Eddi|zuHause> at least for a time like 30 to 60 days, ratings should not drop below 50% 19:16:22 <andythenorth> it's another reason why supplies might still be a misfeature :P 19:16:22 <V453000> for lazy players? 19:16:29 <andythenorth> not just lazy 19:16:33 <andythenorth> different play style 19:16:51 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to realize, V453000 is allergic to non-coop playstyles :p 19:17:02 <andythenorth> with supplies, the need to maintain ratings is suppose to be gone 19:17:07 <andythenorth> but it isn't 19:17:13 <Terkhen> it's a callback, you can do whatever you want with it 19:17:17 <andythenorth> I know 19:17:18 <Terkhen> :P 19:17:20 <andythenorth> but should I :P 19:17:22 <planetmaker> for heaven's sake, then just remove supplies, call it default industries+ and we can stop having this discussion over and over and over and over and ... 19:17:25 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, please 19:17:29 <Eddi|zuHause> please please 19:17:33 *** Yexo [~Yexo@178.63.83.101] has joined #openttd 19:17:37 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: isn't it a standalone grf? 19:17:41 <andythenorth> shouldn't be part of FIRS 19:17:54 <Eddi|zuHause> it must be part of the grf providing the cargo? 19:18:02 <andythenorth> ok 19:18:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the callback is per-cargo 19:18:09 <andythenorth> right 19:18:15 <Eddi|zuHause> so you must know which industry set is loaded 19:18:22 <andythenorth> so in FIRS 19:18:31 <andythenorth> but locked to 100% is stupid? 19:18:35 <Eddi|zuHause> imho in FIRS, but with parameter 19:18:35 <andythenorth> some other algorithm? 19:18:44 <andythenorth> what's interesting? 19:18:50 <Eddi|zuHause> could use the parameter to select different algorithms 19:19:11 <Eddi|zuHause> make the 100% first, and then we experiment with different algorithms 19:19:11 <andythenorth> so I basically play NARS 2, US style railroading 19:19:22 <andythenorth> long trains, not very fast, slow travel times 19:19:31 <andythenorth> hmm 19:19:37 <andythenorth> could be tweaked per cargo 19:19:45 <andythenorth> so the bulk cargos are much less sensitive 19:20:09 <Eddi|zuHause> primary cargos/secondary cargos/supplies? 19:20:16 <andythenorth> pax, mail 19:20:18 <V453000> or just throw FIRS away and come draw NUTS :D :P 19:20:31 * andythenorth considers 19:20:37 <andythenorth> FIRS *is* nearly done 19:20:42 <andythenorth> apart from all the bits not done 19:20:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the whole economies thing is not done :p 19:21:10 <planetmaker> economies might be for > 1.0 19:21:16 <andythenorth> improved ground-tiles-with-foundations isn't done 19:21:22 <andythenorth> reworked supplies isn't done 19:21:37 <andythenorth> randomised initial production isn't done 19:21:42 <andythenorth> snow isn't finished 19:21:49 <andythenorth> date-sensitive graphics aren't done 19:22:26 <andythenorth> redrawing default industries isn't done (and may never be) 19:22:48 <Yexo> <Eddi|zuHause> make the 100% first, and then we experiment with different algorithms <- I already have a patch for that 19:23:02 <Yexo> so feel free to suggest alternative algorithms I could implement 19:24:11 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.99.14] has joined #openttd 19:24:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: something that is less sensitive to time intervals. 30 days: 70%, 60 days: 50% 19:25:01 <andythenorth> Yexo: I'll happily test in my current game :P 19:25:03 <andythenorth> :) 19:25:50 <andythenorth> I think what's going to happen is same outcome as if I just played properly.... 19:25:55 <andythenorth> I have to build a lot more trains 19:25:58 <andythenorth> and a lot more track 19:27:21 <andythenorth> Yexo: url for the patch? :D 19:28:08 <frosch123> btw, is there a reason to include such features into firs? why no separate grf? 19:28:14 <Yexo> andythenorth: http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/always_full_station_rating.diff 19:28:20 <Yexo> frosch123: it's a cargo callback 19:28:45 <Yexo> so if it's a separate grf it needs to be very careful to follow the firs cargo definitions, it must be loaded after firs and include the same cargo icons 19:29:19 <andythenorth> on a similar note, having FISH adjust base water construction costs would be wrong? 19:29:43 <frosch123> hmm, ok, i had the impression it was a generic callback :) 19:29:45 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: good idea, but have the parameter set to "default" 19:30:48 <Yexo> <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: something that is less sensitive to time intervals. 30 days: 70%, 60 days: 50% <- you mean "Days since last cargo pickup"? 19:30:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: yes 19:31:00 * andythenorth reads cb145 docs 19:31:11 <Yexo> should it also effect "amount of cargo waiting"? 19:31:20 <andythenorth> there should be some curve 19:31:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: maybe 19:31:28 <andythenorth> a *lot* of cargo waiting is bad 19:31:37 <andythenorth> plus....it might be an interesting positive feedback 19:31:39 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-176-111.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 19:31:40 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 19:31:49 <V453000> so a lot of waiting cargo is bad but you want to keep ratings for a longer time? 19:31:51 <V453000> :d 19:32:02 <andythenorth> if >1000t is waiting, and rating plummets, not much more will be added to station 19:32:16 <andythenorth> max speed and age are stupid in ottd 19:32:20 <andythenorth> made sense in original game 19:32:26 <Eddi|zuHause> so: <30days: 70%, <60days: 60%, >1000 units: -10%, >2000 units: -15% 19:32:28 <andythenorth> statue bonus is stupid 19:32:49 <Yexo> age of last vehicle can't be adjusted by the callback, nor can the statue bonus 19:32:56 <Eddi|zuHause> statue bonus is kind of "this company is rich enough" 19:33:15 <V453000> well, no matter how "stupid" the bonuses or whatnot are, I think they work just fine 19:33:21 <Eddi|zuHause> imho it should not be the age of the vehicle, but the age of the model... 19:33:27 <andythenorth> nah 19:33:40 <andythenorth> sd40-2 goes forever 19:33:46 <andythenorth> bab 19:33:46 <andythenorth> 19:33:49 <andythenorth> biab even 19:33:50 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: currently it's <7.5 days: 51%, < 15days: 37%, <30days: 20%. Are you sure you want to increase the percentages to 70% and 60%? 19:34:38 <Eddi|zuHause> "wow, this is the first transrapid" is certainly more attention attracting than "wow, this BR146 is brandnew, but it is the 500th of its kind" 19:34:41 <Yexo> for amount we have now >1000: -14%, > 1500: -35% 19:35:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: yes, i want transfer-stations to keep ratings above 50% unless they are _really_ badly serviced 19:35:42 <Yexo> and keep the positive bonusses for small amounts of cargo waiting? 19:36:06 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe, haven't looked that much into the details 19:36:13 <Yexo> and what about max speed of last vehicle? 19:36:21 <Yexo> currently it's (Speed (km/h) - 85) / 4 19:36:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: that only makes sense for passengers 19:36:26 <Yexo> so 0..17% 19:36:44 <Yexo> ok, so set to fixed 17% bonus for other cargoes? 19:37:04 <planetmaker> amount waiting is not the best proxy due to large transfer stations usually have high amounts waiting 19:37:10 <planetmaker> even if turnover is really high 19:37:38 <Yexo> planetmaker: but there is nothing better available 19:37:40 <planetmaker> I've had stations which shipped 30k pax a month - but had very poor as cargo was constantly between 0 and 5000k waiting 19:37:50 <planetmaker> changing daily 19:38:23 <Eddi|zuHause> so >1000: -10%, >2000: -15%, >5000: -20%, >10000: -30% 19:38:42 <planetmaker> better proxy would be waiting / monthly turnover 19:39:01 <planetmaker> or something along that 19:39:12 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, but that needs openttd patches 19:39:24 <planetmaker> yes :-P 19:39:33 <Eddi|zuHause> a) logging that value, b) making it available to the newgrf 19:41:38 <Eddi|zuHause> c) multiple related objects, so you have access to both the station and the vehicle 19:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause> "özil vs. ösis" 20:00:33 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 20:00:57 <andythenorth> patch for station tiles that can boost ratings :P 20:00:59 <andythenorth> warehouses 20:00:59 <andythenorth> etc 20:01:54 <andythenorth> yexo - with your 100% patch, it will take time for station rating to increase from current levels? 20:03:23 <Yexo> yes 20:03:25 <Yexo> and you need to enable the setting first, it's disabled by default 20:04:07 <andythenorth> and restart ottd... 20:07:03 <Eddi|zuHause> why that? 20:07:24 <andythenorth> action 14 is cached 20:07:33 <Eddi|zuHause> reload_newgrfs? 20:07:38 <andythenorth> code changes to parameters don't show up without a restart 20:07:49 <andythenorth> heh 20:07:56 <andythenorth> I now have insane amounts of cargo available 20:08:04 * andythenorth builds more trains :P 20:08:14 <tokai> Did anyone ever thought about allowing terra forming (lowering/raising land) when there are tracks on top already? :) Always a bit annoying to have to demolish the tracks first when one wants to improve some bits. :) 20:08:33 <Eddi|zuHause> tokai: are you playing a version from 5 years ago? 20:09:05 <tokai> Nope. Just downloaded a brand new version. (well... didn't played for a while.. perhaps a year or two :) 20:09:22 <tokai> Some stuff is a bit confusing right now (not as it used to be ;) 20:10:45 <tokai> Fast forward seems to be a bit broken. At least its speed up is hardly noticeable. (Max OS X version here) 20:11:06 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause / andythenorth: http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/firs_station_rating.diff new diff 20:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that depends kinda on the save game used 20:11:15 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/firs.grf <_ compiled grf 20:11:30 <Yexo> this implements eddi's proposed values approximately 20:11:31 <andythenorth> tokai: on OS X ffwd is highly variable 20:11:48 <andythenorth> depends on your hardware, map size, number of vehicles etc 20:12:13 <andythenorth> the 100% patch *is* a bit insane 20:12:32 <andythenorth> will good station ratings also affect LA rating? 20:12:44 <Eddi|zuHause> no 20:12:44 <Yexo> no 20:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> LA only consideres "service within last 20 days" 20:13:29 <Yexo> last 50 days 20:13:48 <tokai> andythenorth: I know how it used to be on MorphOS at least. It was like "whooooosh". Now I only get like a 2% increase or such. Just a very basic map and a few busses. Nothing special at least. :) Also CPU usage isn't maxing out. Perhaps screen refresh is limiting factor here. 20:14:01 <Eddi|zuHause> where "service" means "at least 1 unit loaded or unloaded" 20:14:03 <Yexo> it's actually last 20 2.5-day cycles 20:14:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: ah, that explains this :) 20:15:12 <Yexo> yes, the wiki (and as such several forum posts) have been spreading wrong information about that for a long time 20:15:36 <andythenorth> that's a common pattern :P 20:15:49 <andythenorth> e.g. game lighting direction, town effect of goods etc 20:16:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r22872 /trunk/src/bmp.cpp: -Fix [FS#4746]: Improve handling of slightly invalid BMP files using the under-specified RLE compression. Improve coding style while at it as well. (Based on patch by monoid) 20:16:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r22873 /trunk/src/ (heightmap.cpp lang/english.txt spriteloader/png.cpp): -Fix [FS#4747]: Validate image dimensions before loading. (Based on patch by monoid) 20:16:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r22871 /trunk/src/bmp.cpp: -Fix [FS#4746]: Perform stricter checks on RLE compressed BMP images. (monoid) 20:16:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r22874 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#4747]: Check size of various buffers before allocation. (monoid) 20:17:21 <Eddi|zuHause> "under-specified" is a new euphemism for "buggy"? 20:17:30 * andythenorth considers replacing all railroads with canals to handle insane amounts of cargo from ratings patch :) 20:17:45 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-158-215.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:18:35 <tokai> Eddi|zuHause: do I need to enable some advanced option to make it work. I don't see/ find it. :) 20:19:48 <Eddi|zuHause> tokai: yes, under construction: allow landscaping under buildings, etc. 20:21:43 * andythenorth considers reducing freight weight multiplier 20:21:44 <tokai> It's actually enabled already, but it still complains that I must remove the railroad track first. 20:22:24 <Yexo> you want to terraform under railroad track? That's currently not possible, there is simply no option for that 20:22:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: that has been working for years 20:23:06 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08ffd7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:23:29 <Yexo> well, as long as the height of the tracks doesn't change, yes 20:24:00 <Yexo> tokai: is "Allow building on slopes and coasts" enabled? 20:25:00 <tokai> Well.. I want to change the track height in one go... that'S what I meant.. e.g. you have your tracks over a small bump.. then I want to lower the bump and the track should adjust. 20:25:27 <Yexo> there is no option to allow that currently 20:26:23 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, then i have misunderstood you 20:26:38 * planetmaker wonders why that might be needed 20:26:56 <planetmaker> and what realism-people would think of it ;-) 20:28:32 * andythenorth is pleased with the patch by yexo :) 20:28:43 <andythenorth> lots of cargo, long trains, freight weight = 3 20:29:29 <Yexo> which setting are you using? eddi's algorithm or 100%? 20:30:11 <andythenorth> eddi's 20:30:20 <andythenorth> seems to work so far 20:30:25 <andythenorth> the 100% was a bit insane 20:30:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the 100% could be compensated with lower initial production 20:30:55 <andythenorth> maybe time to branch FIRS 0.7.0 and commit this to trunk FIRS? 20:32:26 <Yexo> sure, shall I commit? 20:35:46 <andythenorth> yes 20:37:19 <Eddi|zuHause> "Gerard Depardieu releases video showing him as Obelix in an airplane, with a certain craving" 20:47:26 *** macee [~macee@54005F77.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 20:47:52 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:48:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host109-153-144-163.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:50:08 *** pjpe [~pjpe@173-230-161-25.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 20:50:26 *** macee [~macee@54005F77.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has left #openttd [] 20:51:50 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:54:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r22875 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: Add some asserts and checks to better prevent overflow of the argument to malloc. (monoid) 21:12:28 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:21:07 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:32:25 <tokai> it seems hiding the OpenTTD window speeds up fast forward on Mac OS X (CPU usage goes up too, then). As I suspected the screen refresh is the limiting factor (have similar effects an emulator). :) 21:35:53 <appe> hm 21:36:08 <appe> i wish to drag a train track trough a full 2024 map 21:36:19 <JVassie> 1024 0r 2048 21:36:19 <planetmaker> get a bigger screen 21:36:22 <appe> is there a faster way then just drag and drop? 21:36:25 <appe> ah, sorry. 2024. 21:36:26 <appe> :> 21:36:28 <JVassie> zoom out? 21:37:47 <Terkhen> appe: open a viewport in one of the ends using the V key, move the main viewport to the other end and then drag the track from one viewport to another 21:38:08 <planetmaker> that works? 21:38:39 <appe> oh 21:38:43 <Terkhen> yes 21:38:43 * appe tries. 21:39:01 <Terkhen> maybe my explanation is a bit confusing :P 21:39:48 <appe> it worked 21:39:49 <appe> aewsomly 21:39:55 <Terkhen> ok :) 21:46:15 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-176-111.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 21:47:13 <Wolf01> 'nighty night 21:47:16 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host26-234-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:47:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B6A1.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:42 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.99.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:50:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B6A1.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 21:55:53 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 21:56:11 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-176-111.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 21:56:14 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 21:57:19 <planetmaker> good night 21:59:15 <Terkhen> good night from here too 21:59:39 <Yexo> and from here :) 22:00:41 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 22:05:11 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A212.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:46 *** krinn [~krinn@114.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 22:18:58 <krinn> hi again 22:21:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22876 /trunk/src/autoreplace_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4712]: Report an error in the news if autoreplace/renew fails due to the engine type being no longer available. 22:25:02 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f561d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:00 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 22:40:16 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-176-111.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 22:41:43 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 22:52:05 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:21:13 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:08 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 23:34:53 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 23:38:59 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:43 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.153.138.44] has quit [Quit: Sleep.]