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00:00:05 <Bjarni> this will not happen in OTTD 00:01:41 <Elukka> it will if you play with breakdowns off :P 00:02:39 <Bjarni> oh and the deltic everywhere issue.... in real life I don't like the deltic engine. It's too complex and fragile. This means it spends too long in the repair shop compared to operational hours... another issue not simulated 00:03:09 <Pinkbeast> It does depends on where you are - pretty sure there's nothing left from '61 here. 00:03:17 <Elukka> the crux of the 'issue' is that openttd does not have the complexities that warrant using many different types of engines that real life has 00:03:24 <Bjarni> Cennential suffers from the same bad working/repair radio issue, though for different technical reasons 00:03:37 <Pinkbeast> Bjarni> Well, a sensible treatment of reliability and breakdowns is something we could really use... 00:04:02 <Bjarni> yeah 00:04:13 <Bjarni> I just don't know how it should be done :p 00:04:30 <Bjarni> not codewise, more like gameplaywise 00:04:42 <Elukka> even then it's only an annoyance because of the way the economy is 00:04:46 <Elukka> with infinite money and all 00:04:54 <Bjarni> how should it be done more realistic without breaking gameplay? 00:04:58 <Pinkbeast> ... I don't have Deltics everywhere in UKRS1 games but only because I never build diesels 00:05:09 <Elukka> ottd isn't really much of a business sim 00:05:22 <Pinkbeast> "more realistic" isn't the question I'm asking, as I see it breakdowns already break gameplay. 00:05:35 <Elukka> i'd like to see a more fleshed out economy, but simultaneously i can see why the ottd devs don't really want to do it and why it's something for someone else to make a branch off 00:06:01 <Bjarni> <Pinkbeast> ... I don't have Deltics everywhere in UKRS1 games but only because I never build diesels <-- in real life UK steam died really fast because it could remove the running costs of water towers and stuff 00:06:01 <Pinkbeast> What'd I'd ask is "how can we make breakdowns a meaningful gameplay element which is not Incredibly Annoying and which makes both high and low reliability locomotives sometimes appropriate" 00:06:38 <Bjarni> <Pinkbeast> "more realistic" isn't the question I'm asking, as I see it breakdowns already break gameplay. <-- yeah, that too.... but it still leaves the question how it should work 00:07:05 <Elukka> pinkbeast, i think that's only possible if you didn't have an essentially infinite amount of money 00:07:15 <Elukka> as it is you'd be using the more reliable locomotives all the time 00:07:33 <Pinkbeast> Not if the low reliability ones tend to be newer and faster. 00:08:37 <Pinkbeast> Bjarni> I tend to feel we should have gone directly from steam to electrification, not kept steam around indefinitely (although we arguably did waste a lot of money building new modern locomotives in the early 50s and scrapping them 10 years later) 00:08:59 <Elukka> didn't the swiss do that? 00:09:17 <Bjarni> Pinkbeast: I fully agree and it was debated even when electrification started 00:09:19 <Pinkbeast> Yes. And given that the SR here was extensively electrified, it's not like it would have been an insurmountable problem. 00:09:56 <Elukka> http://www.maerklin.com/en/service/search/details.html?lang=en&page=&perpage=10&level1=3928&level2=3930&artnr=&art_nr=37266&search=1&era=0&gaugechoice=0&groupchoice=0&subgroupchoice=0&catalogue=0&features=0&searchtext=KPEV&backlink=%2Fwww.maerklin.com%2Fen%2Fservice%2Fsearch%2Fproduct_search.html 00:10:01 <Elukka> heh.. prussian EMU for CETS? 00:10:04 <Pinkbeast> Switzerland now is very like the UK might have been without Beeching and Marples - railway stations (often request stops) in villages, bits and bobs of goods sent by rail. 00:10:49 <Bjarni> here (Denmark) the social democrats cancelled the plans for electrification around 1999. Conservative/liberals are in charge now and the social democrats blame those for still running diesel :/ 00:11:28 <Bjarni> because the new DMU doesn't work (ordered when electrification was cancelled, hence they ordered those themselves) 00:12:38 <Pinkbeast> We still seem to have this mad "electric and diesel" express train plan coming. 00:13:15 <Bjarni> which express train? 00:13:35 <Elukka> we have stupid rail infrastructure hickups because someone decided it'd be a good idea to split the trains and the tracks to different (state-owned) companies 00:13:44 <Bjarni> I know Spain has a diesel electric train, which can switch to external power, but UK... never heard about it 00:13:55 <Elukka> so when stuff doesn't work the train company gets to say "eh, not our problem" and of course the track company doesn't have the money to keep the tracks in condition 00:14:00 <Pinkbeast> Elukka> Ha, try it here where they're all private 00:14:13 <Bjarni> <Elukka> we have stupid rail infrastructure hickups because someone decided it'd be a good idea to split the trains and the tracks to different (state-owned) companies <--- somebody is EU. Denmark suffers from it too 00:14:20 <Pinkbeast> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercity_Express_Programme 00:14:30 <Elukka> ours is state-owned yet ran like a private company 00:14:34 <Elukka> a combination of the worst of both worlds! :D 00:14:50 <kbrooks> Elukka, bureautic and ... ? 00:14:55 <Pinkbeast> Network Rail doesn't know quite what it is, to avoid admitting that it's a renationalisation of Railtrack 00:15:14 <Elukka> overly concerned with profit rather than functional rail service 00:15:22 <kbrooks> greedy rigt 00:15:25 <kbrooks> got it 00:15:39 <Elukka> finland, by the way 00:15:45 <Bjarni> the infrastructure owner realized they actually need trains to maintain tracks and went out and bought diesel locomotives. Now the infrastructure owner is also a train operator (against the whole idea) 00:16:41 <Elukka> for all my complaining it still works fairly well 00:16:44 <Elukka> but the problems are so avoidable 00:17:24 <Bjarni> the reason why the tracks and trains are split into different companies is because EU wants train companies to operate in all countries 00:17:36 <Bjarni> both DB and SJ drives in Denmark now 00:17:39 <Bjarni> Arriva too 00:18:07 <Pinkbeast> Arriva? You have my sympathy. 00:18:22 <Elukka> why does that mean DSB can't still own the infrastructure? 00:19:07 <Bjarni> surprisingly they actually operate just fine.... at least better than DSBFirst (which is a new company formed by DSB, the state railroad, and First group, a Scottish company) 00:19:19 <Pinkbeast> Because a private track+train operator has zero incentive to make it easy for anyone else to run trains on their track 00:19:32 <Pinkbeast> First? You have my... well, y'know. 00:19:54 <Bjarni> <Elukka> why does that mean DSB can't still own the infrastructure? <-- both yes and no. They own repairshops and sidings, but not tracks between stations 00:20:01 <Elukka> i see 00:20:43 <kbrooks> Pinkbeast, hmm. in ontario CPR does both 00:20:47 <kbrooks> or so i thought 00:21:01 <Elukka> i wonder why we expect other companies would want to run trains in finland, though... 00:21:03 <Bjarni> this one is golden. Some land measure guy went out and measured where DSB still owned land and where they had to give it up (to BaneDanmark) 00:21:06 <Elukka> there's that sea 00:21:13 <Elukka> and then there's the fact we run broad gauge 00:21:18 <Bjarni> the new marked line ended up in a siding 00:21:36 <Bjarni> meaning one rail belongs to DSB and one rail belongs to BaneDanmark 00:21:36 <Pinkbeast> kbrooks> I daresay it is done, but what I'm saying is it doesn't exactly make it easy for competing operators. 00:22:06 <kbrooks> Pinkbeast, well, VIA and GO compete in the sense of trains 00:22:51 <Bjarni> <Elukka> i wonder why we expect other companies would want to run trains in finland, though... <--- Arriva started by renting trains in Denmark. They bought new ones now though. 00:22:57 <kbrooks> GO is intercity rail and VIA is national rail 00:22:59 <Bjarni> their routes doesn't leave the country 00:23:05 <Elukka> hmm 00:23:17 <Bjarni> it's not like a Copenhagen-London route 00:23:20 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:23:24 <Elukka> yeah i see 00:23:31 <Bjarni> DB made a Copenhagen-Hamburg route through 00:23:39 <Pinkbeast> Oh, Finland's on Russian gauge? 00:23:54 <Bjarni> Pinkbeast: didn't you know that? 00:23:59 <Elukka> finland's on not-quite-russian-but-close-enough-to-run-trains-on-both gauge 00:24:25 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 00:24:27 <Pinkbeast> Apropos of nothing much I've been on Didcot's _Firefly_ on Brunel's 7' 1/4" broad gauge 00:24:57 <Pinkbeast> Bjarni> Nope, I've never been to Finland let alone on a train 00:25:27 <valhallasw> Elukka: hey, we have that split, too. It doesn't work here, either. (NL) 00:25:34 <Elukka> russian is 1520 mm, finnish is 1524 mm 00:25:35 <Elukka> heh 00:26:39 <Swissfan91> anyone good with MS Visio here ? :D 00:26:42 <Elukka> also we keep buying pendolinos despite them never working 00:27:02 <Elukka> they gave up trying to couple sets together during the winter 00:27:04 <Bjarni> ahhh great.... BaneDanmark decided to add more rocks on the tracks tonight 00:27:17 <Bjarni> it's really noisy outside right now :/ 00:27:18 <Pinkbeast> Tilting trains seems to be one of those ideas fated to have to be tried and fail everywhere 00:27:19 <Elukka> these being trains supposedly built for finnish conditions 00:27:24 <valhallasw> please don't get me started about italian trains 00:27:41 <kbrooks> Pinkbeast, whats a tilting train? 00:27:43 <Elukka> these ones don't actually tilt 00:27:49 <valhallasw> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Fyra_Vught.jpg just. look. at. it. 00:27:59 <valhallasw> although that isn't the worst angle 00:28:31 <Pinkbeast> Elukka> Oh, they turn it off in winter? 00:28:44 <Pinkbeast> kbrooks> Er... a train that tilts in corners to let it go faster 00:28:58 <kbrooks> Pinkbeast, oh okay 00:29:11 <Elukka> ...oh, they do tilt 00:29:13 <Elukka> nevermind! 00:29:41 <Elukka> we have these 00:29:42 <Elukka> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Green_Finnish_Pendolino.JPG 00:29:46 <Pinkbeast> It seems like a great idea until you find out a) it means you have to make them smaller, especially if you have an itty-bitty loading gauge like the UK 00:29:52 <Bjarni> http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/354484/530wm/T6500083-Swedish_X2000_high-speed_train-SPL.jpg <--- tilting train 00:29:54 <Elukka> and then we bought these in cooperation with the russian railway for some reason: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Sm6_Allegro_7053_Helsinki.JPG 00:29:56 <Bjarni> (Swedish) 00:29:57 <Pinkbeast> b) they tend to go wrong on a regular basis 00:29:59 <Elukka> they still don't work 00:30:25 <Pinkbeast> and c) tilting the track in corners works pretty well, doesn't go wrong on a regular basis, and works with all your existing trains too 00:31:08 <Bjarni> valhallasw: the real question is: can the train actually drive? 00:32:20 <valhallasw> Bjarni: well, the brand new ones might. Until someone has to fix them, and realizes he has no idea what wire does what. 00:32:43 <valhallasw> because, well, we're out of yellow wire, so let's continue with red. 00:33:51 <Bjarni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC4 <--- they made this one and.... oh-oh 00:34:02 <valhallasw> well, there's one running! 00:34:08 <valhallasw> in Libya, at least -_- 00:34:10 <Bjarni> basically it's a DMU which can't connect two sets 00:35:04 <Bjarni> <valhallasw> in Libya, at least -_- <--- that's actually an issue. It's a custom design for DSB only and all of a sudden Gadaffi has one 00:35:12 <Pinkbeast> A lot of high-speed DMUs can't... 00:35:53 <Bjarni> <Pinkbeast> A lot of high-speed DMUs can't... <--- maybe, but the contract stated that 3 sets should be able to drive together as one train 00:36:07 <Bjarni> connecting just two sets is a nightmare 00:36:17 <Bjarni> and so unstable that it's not done anymore 00:36:30 <Eddi|zuHause> german ICE3 trains often travel in pairs 00:36:32 <Bjarni> 3 sets has never been possible 00:36:45 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: as well as thalys and tgv sets 00:36:48 <Pinkbeast> I wonder if the circle of reincarnation is going to bring us back to DVTs at some point 00:36:54 <Eddi|zuHause> typically on routes that are scheduled to split up and rejoin 00:36:58 <valhallasw> but those are not diesel, technically ;-) 00:37:12 <Bjarni> the trains has A and B ends, which makes 4 possibilities for connecting two sets 00:37:14 <Bjarni> only one works 00:37:14 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there's the ICE-TD 00:37:18 <valhallasw> true 00:37:19 <Bjarni> and that one only partly works 00:37:31 <Eddi|zuHause> which honestly has problems on its own... 00:37:44 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's actually not derived from the ICE3, but the ICE-T 00:37:45 <Bjarni> what problems? 00:37:53 <valhallasw> why is it, in the 2010's, so hard to build working trains 00:38:23 *** Nite_Owl [~chatzilla@c-76-109-73-27.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 00:38:28 <Pinkbeast> Gresley has been dead for 70 years. 00:38:43 <Bjarni> because politicians decides to build them cheap in Italy and then they always go over budget and below specifications 00:38:55 <Eddi|zuHause> valhallasw: because of two conflicting developments: more complicated technique needing more maintenance, and economical requirements requiring cutting maintenance cost 00:39:04 <kbrooks> i cann see in two years in my game that road vehicle income - road vehicle expenses is only 10,000. how can i widen that gap? 00:39:44 <Eddi|zuHause> valhallasw: as far as i remember, the ICE-TD had problems with the tilting mechanism 00:39:58 <Nite_Owl> Is it known that any river .grf other than the default one glitches in the latest versions of trunk ? 00:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite_Owl: if it's not at the bug tracker, it's not known 00:40:32 <Pinkbeast> What RV set are you using, kbrooks? (And what are the absolute figures here - on what turnover is that 10,000 profit earned?) 00:40:55 * Nite_Owl off to do a quick search 00:41:08 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> valhallasw: as far as i remember, the ICE-TD had problems with the tilting mechanism <-- that explains why they are used between Copenhagen and Hamburg. The speed limits are so low that tilting isn't needed 00:41:26 <Elukka> the old russian and newer swiss locomotives work fine here 00:41:36 <Elukka> the old finnish diesels too 00:41:44 <Elukka> the italian semi high speed EMUs though... they just don't 00:41:52 <Elukka> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VR_Class_Sm4 00:41:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: they were originally intended for the route Dresden-NÃŒrnberg, which is quite mountaneous and curvy 00:41:57 <Elukka> these ones surprisingly do work 00:42:03 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause> they were surprisingly enough rarely meeting their scheduled times, due to tilting failing... 00:42:33 <kbrooks> Pinkbeast, clarify rv set. also average income for both years and average expenses for both years: 78300 - 65300 = 13,300 00:42:42 <kbrooks> er, 13,000 00:42:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and eventually pulled off service, after the track was badly damaged in the 2002 Elbe/Mulde flooding 00:42:59 <kbrooks> Pinkbeast, and you might need to clarify turnover. 00:43:25 <Pinkbeast> I mean, are you using the game's default RVs or... ? 00:43:32 <kbrooks> default RVs 00:43:38 <Nite_Owl> Nothing there. I wonder if it is due to a recent .grf change in trunk which would make the .grfs at fault? 00:44:04 <Pinkbeast> The usual explanation is traffic jams somewhere meaning you're paying running costs and getting no income 00:44:20 <Bjarni> The speed limit is 120 km/h a great deal of the way in Denmark. The tracks from Puttgarten to Hamburg aren't anywhere near bullettrain like either 00:44:59 <Nite_Owl> Being that rivers and there generation is a relatively new thing... 00:45:15 <Nite_Owl> *their 00:45:19 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> they were surprisingly enough rarely meeting their scheduled times, due to tilting failing... <--- people wouldn't notice here... they would just be like the other trains :p 00:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: the Dresden-NÃŒrnberg tracks are not especially fast either 00:45:33 <Bjarni> ok, it's not THAT bad, but really... 00:45:38 <kbrooks> pinkbeat: okay, 4 road vehicles have the same loss 00:46:01 <Pinkbeast> It's that or... are you using any transfer orders? 00:46:09 <Eddi|zuHause> back when i went by train around there, the limit was 100km/h, dunno if they made special exceptions for tilt trains 00:46:20 <kbrooks> Pinkbeast, one minute i'll evaluate the orders 00:46:51 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: I would think the 100 km/h is a physical limit, not a comfort limit 00:47:05 <kbrooks> Pinkbeast, okay, no transfer orders, but only two orders 00:47:19 <Eddi|zuHause> valhallasw: based on which data? 00:47:31 <kbrooks> Pinkbeast, all other road vehicles have more than two orders and they are all making money 00:47:39 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 00:47:48 <Pinkbeast> Perhaps you could describe the orders of the loss-making vehicles? 00:48:05 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c5ec:c980:a2e4:cf16] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:48:14 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: I would expect speed limits to be related to the foundation of the track etc 00:48:16 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> valhallasw: based on which data? <-- calculated risk of derailing 00:48:19 <kbrooks> Pinkbeast, as per to what? 00:48:26 *** Nite_Owl [~chatzilla@c-76-109-73-27.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.2/20110902133214]] 00:48:29 <valhallasw> not on the expected comfort level of passengers in certain coaches 00:48:43 <valhallasw> but I might very well be wrong 00:49:05 <Pinkbeast> Anything at all would be a start. What vehicle? What cargo? Full load orders? 00:49:09 <Eddi|zuHause> valhallasw: the entire point of tilt trains is to run faster through curves... 00:49:26 <kbrooks> Pinkbeast, well 00:49:31 <kbrooks> Pinkbeast, good thinking 00:49:39 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: yes, but it doesn't change anything physically 00:49:45 <valhallasw> you still have to adapt the track 00:49:49 <Bjarni> http://b.bimg.dk/node-images/488/580x362-c/488662-togdriften-delvist-genoptaget-efter-afsporing--.jpg <--- this is what happens when track speed and train speed don't match 00:50:02 <Pinkbeast> A savegame might be easier if it's vanilla OTTD 00:50:03 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: the only thing tilting changes is the passenger comfort 00:50:17 <Bjarni> clearly speed limits are for safety reasons 00:50:18 <kbrooks> Pinkbeast, buses with passengers. one station has less passengers than the other - 70 times less 00:50:35 <Pinkbeast> And are you giving full load orders at either or both ends? 00:50:47 <Bjarni> in this case they forgot to tell the train drivers that the track was bad and that they should slow down 00:51:00 <Bjarni> http://b.bimg.dk/node-images/180/620x411-c/180979-hidtil-uset-skinnebrud-mske-rsag-til-afsporing--.jpg <--- the track afterwards 00:51:22 <kbrooks> Pinkbeast, they aren't (as far as di can see) needed because the buses have 37 passengers and both stations are consistently over 37 passengers 00:52:44 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 00:52:51 <valhallasw> anyway, my clock suggests it's time for bed. Good night to you all. 00:52:55 <Pinkbeast> Is this ordinary OTTD or a patch pack or something? Do the stations connect to anywhere else? 00:52:57 <kbrooks> Pinkbeast, i just told the buses to unload and wait for full load 00:53:10 <kbrooks> Pinkbeast, ordinary OTTD and nowhere else 00:53:11 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Quit: nn] 00:53:25 <Pinkbeast> Obviously you don't want to wait for a full load at the less busy end. 00:53:42 <Pinkbeast> And I think in general you should avoid reading "Are you doing XYZ" as "You should do XYZ" 00:54:10 <kbrooks> i didn't read it as that 00:54:20 <Pinkbeast> "i just told the buses to unload and wait for full load" - why? 00:54:54 <kbrooks> one bus i looked and noticed passengers didnt drop off 00:55:08 <Pinkbeast> Does the small station actually accept passengers? 00:55:14 <kbrooks> yup 00:55:20 <Pinkbeast> Got a savegame? 00:55:20 <kbrooks> hmm 00:55:22 <kbrooks> oone sec 00:55:37 <kbrooks> oh damn 00:55:47 <kbrooks> you're right 00:55:56 <kbrooks> it doesnt accept passengers 00:56:07 <Pinkbeast> There we go. :-) 00:56:37 <kbrooks> i'll fix situation 00:57:35 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: is there supposed to be what seem to be company color 2 colors on the CETS livery template? 00:58:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: company colour 2 is only active if you enable it by coding the grf. it's just supposed to be a green blob otherwise... 00:58:49 <Elukka> hm, okay, so those colors can be used? 00:58:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 00:58:59 <Elukka> cool 01:00:30 <Bjarni> goodnight 01:00:33 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x573c4281.espnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:02:01 <Elukka> was pondering which template to use for the prussian compartment wagons when i remembered the umbauwagen that i previously drew were built out of them... 01:10:22 <Swissfan91> any fancy drawing some industries? :D 01:12:04 *** kbrooks_ [~kbrooks@d24-235-130-117.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #openttd 01:12:04 *** kbrooks [~kbrooks@d24-235-130-117.home1.cgocable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:12:19 <Elukka> unfortunately i'm quite busy on this :P 01:12:22 <Elukka> (busy procrastinating i mean) 01:14:37 <kbrooks_> lol 01:15:04 <Swissfan91> ha ha :) 01:15:21 <Swissfan91> well at least now I have drawn up an industry tree, so I know what to draw 01:15:44 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:15:44 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.84.107] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:16:46 <Swissfan91> so hopefully, you'll be seeing industries such as florists, meadows and vineyards soon :) 01:18:05 *** kbrooks__ [~kbrooks@d24-235-130-117.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #openttd 01:18:05 *** kbrooks_ [~kbrooks@d24-235-130-117.home1.cgocable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:19:25 <Elukka> hm, prussians had both brown and green coaches... 01:20:02 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08262e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 01:22:13 <Elukka> brown was third class, green was second, green with yellow trim first, apparently 01:22:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. grey=4th class, brown=3rd class, green = 2nd clas 01:22:59 <Elukka> is CETS going to use more than one? 01:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say for local coaches start with 3rd class, and then do other fancy stuff 01:24:09 <Elukka> hmm... brown for the 2 axles, green for the 4 axles, maybe? can always draw variations later 01:24:16 <Eddi|zuHause> might do random liveries or livery refits later 01:24:16 <Elukka> what about the 3 axle cars though 01:24:47 <Elukka> i love what DB set does with the UIC-X wagons 01:25:01 <Elukka> adds the restaurant coach, though i'd prefer if the first class coaches weren't refits but were randomly added 01:27:00 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe for the early ages, we could do 2 axle coaches for local trains, and 3 axle coaches for express trains 01:27:25 <Elukka> what about the longer prussian coaches? 01:28:03 <Eddi|zuHause> there are also commuter coaches to be picked 01:28:37 <Eddi|zuHause> just pick a few common coaches and start drawing :) 01:28:47 *** Swissfan91 [Swissfan91@5e0ad068.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 01:29:16 <Elukka> drawing a green 3 axle coach at the moment 01:33:23 <Elukka> well, or brown, or whatever. not going to take more than a second to change it long as i keep the base color on a separate layer 01:35:47 <Eddi|zuHause> you can use some magic colours and do a recolour table for both 01:40:27 <kbrooks__> okay 01:40:38 <kbrooks__> so i've been having a train signal issue 01:41:15 <Pinkbeast> Go on... 01:41:16 <kbrooks__> after one train leaves a station, in the process there is a two way signal it has to go through. 01:41:53 <kbrooks__> threre is another train in the station that is leaving, but i t is blocked by that train. 01:41:56 <Pinkbeast> Path-based or block-based? 01:42:07 <Pinkbeast> A screenshot is probably the thing here. 01:42:18 <kbrooks__> bllock based - what is path-based? 01:42:31 <Elukka> superior! 01:42:32 <Elukka> :P 01:42:46 <Pinkbeast> That's about the level of it. 01:42:48 <kbrooks__> due to following ordders? 01:42:49 <Elukka> they're the rightmost signals in the signal interface, i think? 01:43:06 <kbrooks__> do path based signals follow orders? 01:43:32 <Pinkbeast> Do they "follow orders"? 01:43:38 <Pinkbeast> I have no idea what you mean, I'm afraid. 01:43:39 <Elukka> in practice they work the same as normal signals except they're better 01:43:59 <Pinkbeast> http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals 01:45:00 <Pinkbeast> But fundamentally; suppose you have an X crossover between two lines. With block-based signals, a train on one line blocks the other line. With path-based signals it doesn't; trains reserve a path to the next signal and only that path blocks other trains. 01:45:50 <kbrooks__> how do i change things over? 01:46:15 <Pinkbeast> There's a "replace signal" tool in the signals gui, but let's see a screenshot of your problem? 01:46:40 <kbrooks__> actually none available yet but i think it will recur soon 01:46:57 <Pinkbeast> The layout will probably suffice to work out what's wrong. 01:47:07 <kbrooks__> ah ok 01:47:27 <kbrooks__> how do i d o one within game 01:47:28 <kbrooks__> ? 01:48:56 <Pinkbeast> Pulldown menu from the rightmost icon on the toolbar 01:50:55 <kbrooks__> http://imgur.com/OlzMu?full 01:51:11 <kbrooks__> actually this one is the imaage 01:51:13 <kbrooks__> http://i.imgur.com/OlzMu.png 01:52:02 <Pinkbeast> OK, where's the problem happen? 01:53:09 <kbrooks__> one train from thre top leaving station. one train at bottom leaving too and two trains backlogged from north waiting for the top train to leave, but top train is blocked by the signal after the station 01:54:34 <Pinkbeast> Which station? Strathill mines? 01:54:42 <kbrooks__> ywah 01:54:50 <Pinkbeast> You essentially never want series of two-way signals like that. 01:55:05 <Pinkbeast> It's a recipe for trains coming up to each other and stopping. 01:55:29 <kbrooks__> so what do i do insteased f the current configuration? 01:56:33 <Pinkbeast> Well, short of going to path-based signals, _no_ two-way signal except perhaps at a station entrance. 01:57:07 <Pinkbeast> But that crossover NE of Strathill Mines is a perfect example of the problem with block signalling - only one train can use it at once. 01:59:53 <kbrooks__> if i use a path signal at the station entrance, what will be the result? 02:01:44 <Pinkbeast> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/games/signals.png is an example terminus station with path-based signals. 02:01:56 <Pinkbeast> Notice I have one-way signals right up to the crossover. 02:03:16 <Pinkbeast> But I think your problem is more fundamental - if you have a line of track with multiple 2-way signals on, there's nothing stopping a train entering it at each end, and then they meet in the middle. 02:07:07 <Pinkbeast> Terminus stations with block-based signals usually use pre-signals and exit signals - otherwise there's nothing to stop a train entering the block before the station when all platforms are full, and then no-one can get out. 02:07:16 <Pinkbeast> So I would also read the wiki about pre-signals and exit signals. 02:15:30 <Elukka> hmm... fine line between too messy and not enough detail on the compartment coaches 02:15:45 <Elukka> there's so much detail that's way, way smaller than 1 pixel that one still needs to suggest is there in some way 02:19:27 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-190.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:26:08 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-142-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:31:45 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-131-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:44:08 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-153-180.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 02:57:10 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/abteilwagen.png 02:57:15 <Elukka> i swear it's impossible to get this right 02:57:19 <Elukka> not really happy with either option 02:58:52 *** EyeMWing [~Wing@c-68-33-226-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 03:03:40 <kbrooks__> good night everyone sweet dreams :) 03:14:01 *** kbrooks__ [~kbrooks@d24-235-130-117.home1.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:50:55 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 03:52:21 <pjpe> the level of nfo that 2cc uses is just 03:52:27 <pjpe> just too much for me to comprehend 04:07:33 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 04:14:06 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B737BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the 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host closed the connection] 07:12:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:14:00 <andythenorth> morning 07:16:49 *** zachanima [~zach@0x52b41806.static.bcbnet.dk] has joined #openttd 07:23:26 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 07:24:21 <Rubidium> good moaning andythenorth ;) 07:31:03 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 07:38:18 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-178-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:40:21 *** Firzen [~Neon@dslb-178-004-178-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:42:07 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:42:44 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 07:42:47 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 07:46:38 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-178-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:55:52 *** fjb|mobile_ [~fjb@p5DDFE973.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:57:00 *** fjb|mobile [~fjb@p5DDFE415.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:59:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CFB0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:00:05 <planetmaker> moin 08:00:22 <peter1138> hi 08:00:40 <Terkhen> good morning 08:08:03 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 08:10:21 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:11:31 <andythenorth> bye :) 08:11:48 * andythenorth has to go out-in-the-world today 08:11:53 <Hyronymus> ooh 08:11:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:12:02 <Hyronymus> oh, too slow 08:15:24 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:15:27 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:21:48 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:22:11 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:30:17 <dihedral> greetings 08:30:42 * Alberth waves hi 08:35:24 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 08:37:32 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 08:40:43 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:43:50 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 08:46:45 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:49:30 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ff1cc000-21.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:54:17 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.233.237.150] has joined #openttd 08:55:02 <Wolf01> hello 08:55:40 <Pinkbeast> Good morning. 08:58:48 <Hyronymus> moin 08:59:12 <Terkhen> good morning everyone 08:59:30 <fjb|mobile> Moin 09:03:46 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has joined #openttd 09:19:06 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:22:49 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 09:43:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.175.247] has joined #openttd 09:49:03 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mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 11:37:00 <dihedral> a Bjarni ?? 11:38:17 <Bjarni> where? 11:38:24 <dihedral> there! 11:38:30 <dihedral> whohoo 11:47:47 <Sionide> Biriyani! 11:49:17 <PeanutHorst> ... bengali? 11:49:39 <PeanutHorst> (i think that word has one too many 'i's in it) 12:09:50 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:26:01 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 12:26:32 *** csaba2 [~csaba@89.142.45.231] has joined #openttd 12:27:33 <csaba2> anyone has this problem with the latest openttd? In Win7, when at least one other application is minimized, then the OpenTTD window also starts minimized and cannot be restored until all the other windows are restored? 12:29:48 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has joined #openttd 12:31:05 *** csaba [~csaba@92.63.21.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:31:05 *** csaba2 is now known as csaba 12:39:19 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:39:51 <b_jonas> csaba: I don't know, I'm not running ttd on windows. also see topic. 12:56:33 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 13:01:20 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:10:15 *** AndChat- [~fjb@p5DDFE415.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:10:43 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-221-105.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 13:21:04 <planetmaker> @logs 13:21:04 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 13:26:03 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:26:14 *** Godde [Godde@ti0033a380-dhcp2341.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 13:26:36 <Godde> Good day, gentlemen 13:27:19 <Godde> Question: Can one enable "click-dragging" on the landscape tools found in the scenario editor? 13:27:52 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:28:05 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 13:31:04 <frosch123> no, they are inconsistent 13:42:44 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:04 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 14:06:03 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:49 *** Rezt [~Rezt@81-178-201-66.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 14:08:00 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 14:11:08 <TrueBrain> it is weird seeing your own bot reporting information you never put in there :P 14:12:14 *** Rezt [~Rezt@81-178-201-66.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [] 14:15:27 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-153-180.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 14:16:08 <dihedral> sorry TrueBrain that would have been me :-P 14:25:27 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:23 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 14:35:00 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:09 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:11 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:37 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 14:38:23 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:38:47 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 14:38:50 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:48 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 14:43:22 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:03:09 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/bild-785479-258965.html <-- that looks totally like a screenshot from an FPS 15:03:54 *** pugi__ [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-063-144.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 15:04:19 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:06:57 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-153-180.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:06:58 *** pugi__ is now known as pugi 15:08:24 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: correction: like a screenshot from an FPS tech demo 15:10:05 <Eddi|zuHause> but apparently it's a real photo of a real police uniform... 15:17:11 *** Godde [Godde@ti0033a380-dhcp2341.bb.online.no] has quit [] 15:32:24 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 15:47:58 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has joined #openttd 15:52:57 <Alberth> germany has entered the matrix ! 16:00:36 <SpComb> the colors on the car are a little too dull 16:01:45 *** TramOfDeath [1fb5ae76@109.169.29.95] has joined #openttd 16:01:53 <TramOfDeath> 0hai 16:02:27 <TramOfDeath> One nameset NGRF seems to fail to download. 16:02:42 <TramOfDeath> slovenian town names 16:03:48 <planetmaker> in what way 'fail to download'? 16:04:17 <planetmaker> what did you try? How? 16:04:35 <frosch123> it is stuck at 9 of 34 KiB :) 16:04:48 <TramOfDeath> yup 16:05:38 <TramOfDeath> it gets stuck when loading through Content Downloader 16:05:43 <frosch123> the file is actually only 9 KiB (when downloaded from the website) 16:05:52 <frosch123> so something is wrong with the size stores in bananas 16:05:57 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-190.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:06:09 <TramOfDeath> what the fly! 16:06:17 <frosch123> TramOfDeath: download actually succeeds 16:06:23 <frosch123> it is present after canceling 16:07:18 <TramOfDeath> Then submitter must resubmit... probably full size stamped instead of compressed 16:07:26 <TramOfDeath> <!> 16:07:34 <frosch123> there are two versions of that grf on bananas 16:07:45 <frosch123> one is listed as 9KiB, one as 34KiB 16:08:12 <TramOfDeath> Then older one must be smashed 16:08:15 <frosch123> yeah, two grfs with the same name and same version 16:08:17 <frosch123> but different ids 16:08:23 <frosch123> so there is a conflict in the storage 16:08:33 <frosch123> TrueBrain: ^^ any idea? 16:08:39 <frosch123> i guess we have to delete one from the db 16:09:05 <TramOfDeath> Delete whichever is older 16:09:15 <TramOfDeath> <>_<> 16:09:17 <frosch123> they are from different authors though 16:09:33 <frosch123> so they are not different versions of the same grf 16:09:40 <frosch123> just two which share the name :p 16:09:48 <TramOfDeath> !!!!!!! Give one double spaces in name!!! 16:10:05 <TramOfDeath> Slovenian Name Set 16:10:42 <planetmaker> less ! do a marvelously better job 16:12:04 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-77-121.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:12:30 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:12:43 <TramOfDeath> All authors must have an authortag that's automatically added to the name - 6-letter tags like XBL gamertags. 16:13:04 <frosch123> TramOfDeath: we already have a unique id 16:13:23 <frosch123> but it is not included in the package name 16:13:44 <frosch123> it makes no sense to name packages the same anyway 16:13:50 <frosch123> bananas should just forbid that :p 16:14:54 <TramOfDeath> Now the 34 one fails to dload and the 9 one is shown as "obtained" 16:16:47 <frosch123> yes, you won't be able to downlaod the 34 one 16:16:53 <frosch123> it is shadowed by the 9 one 16:17:37 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:18:32 <TramOfDeath> Give second one a .00 version 16:19:34 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-58-238.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:19:39 <TramOfDeath> or kill second one entirely, and send the author an email so the authors of two could possibly work on one set 16:20:50 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has joined #openttd 16:22:27 *** NOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-93-202.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:24:57 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-77-121.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:25:59 <TramOfDeath> </3 16:26:20 * TramOfDeath is mad and almost ready to explode 16:27:33 <Rubidium> frosch123: why would it be shadowed? It's a completely different NewGRF 16:27:40 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-58-238.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:27:48 <frosch123> Rubidium: the download file has the same name 16:28:08 <frosch123> both are called Slovenian_Town_Names-1.0.tar.gz 16:28:26 <frosch123> you can only access one of them via the website as well as ingame 16:28:39 <Rubidium> ah bah... 16:28:46 <TramOfDeath> Make 34kb one Slovenian_Town_Names-1.00.tar.gz 16:28:56 <Rubidium> yay... yet another bananas bug 16:29:29 <TramOfDeath> BANANA is also a code word for 8==> 16:29:51 <frosch123> TramOfDeath: just download it from the forums, if you really need it so badly 16:29:52 <TramOfDeath> No wonder the server fails... 16:30:11 <Rubidium> nah, just the validation upon uploading fails horribly 16:30:23 <Rubidium> it should prevent duplicate filenames 16:30:35 <TramOfDeath> Not that I need it badly but that if it gets amids the list of dloads it shreds the dload 16:31:01 <frosch123> TramOfDeath: let me guess, you downloaded everything, and now you are sad that you cannot get 100% :p 16:31:28 <TramOfDeath> not everything, everything except maps and scens 16:31:46 <frosch123> yup, completely unnecessary 16:32:04 <frosch123> a waste of bandwidth 16:32:39 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 16:32:47 <frosch123> do you also go to the supermarket and get one of everything? 16:33:02 <TramOfDeath> I'm not a shopper 16:33:09 <TramOfDeath> |_!_| 16:33:26 <TramOfDeath> to me, a shop is a putrid maze 16:34:40 <TramOfDeath> Just give one a .00 version. OR! Make Bananas have author-assigned folders 16:34:51 <planetmaker> ... 16:35:39 <frosch123> @mode +q tramofdeath 16:35:42 *** mode/#openttd [+q tramofdeath!*@*] by DorpsGek 16:35:57 <planetmaker> TramOfDeath: I ask you then please provide a fix to the content service code. You seem to know how it works 16:35:57 <frosch123> stop muttering if you have no idea what you are talking about 16:37:20 *** TramOfDeath [1fb5ae76@109.169.29.95] has quit [Quit: ANY filesys does its best to prevent such hiccups. For BananaS, ya better give users folders!] 16:37:31 <frosch123> :p 16:37:34 <planetmaker> :-) 16:37:39 <frosch123> @mode -q tramofdeath 16:37:42 *** mode/#openttd [-q tramofdeath!*@*] by DorpsGek 16:38:16 <planetmaker> also that wouldn't stop the error. Just make it less likely 16:38:23 <planetmaker> --> aka no clue 16:38:37 <frosch123> he was really mad that he could not get everything :p 16:38:44 <planetmaker> yeah 16:38:49 <planetmaker> incredible 16:38:56 <frosch123> better add some billing :p 16:38:59 <planetmaker> :-) 16:39:00 <frosch123> 1⬠per downdload 16:39:10 <planetmaker> non-linear 16:39:15 <frosch123> good point 16:39:27 <frosch123> 0.01â¬, 0.02, 0.04 :p 16:39:28 <planetmaker> fibonacci-like price-scaling. in cents or so 16:39:41 <frosch123> gives 655.36⬠on 16th :p 16:39:45 <planetmaker> :-) 16:40:07 <planetmaker> then we finally can afford a whole datacentre ;-) 16:45:27 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 16:45:45 <planetmaker> heya George 16:47:00 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=56567 <-- did you see my suggestion in the cargo colour thread? 16:47:31 <Eddi|zuHause> fibonacci is roughly 1.7^n 16:48:51 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (1+sqrt(5))/2 16:48:51 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 1.61803398875 16:49:09 <Eddi|zuHause> so more like 1.6^n 16:49:11 <pugi> golden ratio :D 16:49:20 <frosch123> @calc ((1+sqrt(5))/2)**16 16:49:20 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 2206.9995469 16:49:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's the one 16:49:43 <frosch123> @calc ((1+sqrt(5))/2)**219 / 100 16:49:43 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 58653403043022312263554073106844728212586496 16:49:56 <frosch123> still expensive to download all :p 16:50:16 <pugi> @calc -1/(1+sqrt(5))/2 + 1 16:50:16 <DorpsGek> pugi: 0.845491502813 16:50:18 <pugi> hmm 16:50:27 <pugi> @calc -1/((1+sqrt(5))/2) + 1 16:50:27 <DorpsGek> pugi: 0.38196601125 16:50:43 <pugi> wasn't it something like that? 16:50:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:51:26 <pugi> ah.. 16:51:28 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 1/sqrt(5)*(((1+sqrt(5))/2)**219-((1-sqrt(5))/2)**(-219)) 16:51:28 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 5246119852635567077522623475390716824835325952-69437186044397471436092645310464i 16:51:37 <pugi> @calc 1 + 1/((1+sqrt(5))/2) 16:51:37 <DorpsGek> pugi: 1.61803398875 16:51:38 <pugi> :D 16:51:42 <pugi> still the golden ratio 16:52:17 <Eddi|zuHause> something about that result doesn't look right 16:52:25 <frosch123> making money with the golden ratio? makes sense :p 16:53:16 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: your parentheses are in the wrong places 16:53:17 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 1/sqrt(5)*(((1+sqrt(5))/2)**219-((1-sqrt(5))/2)**(219)) 16:53:18 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 2623059926317818082240167956946549197580009472 17:05:20 *** macee [~macee@2E6B6A7E.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 17:14:27 *** csaba [~csaba@89.142.45.231] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference] 17:14:44 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 17:15:37 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [] 17:21:29 *** macee [~macee@2E6B6A7E.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has left #openttd [] 17:22:06 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:22:09 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 17:31:52 <George> planetmaker: yes, I dud, but I had no time to think about it yet 17:36:07 *** Swissfan91 [Swissfan91@5e0ad068.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 17:45:31 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22916 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt croatian.txt slovak.txt): 17:45:31 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:31 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnau 17:45:31 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 22 changes by VoyagerOne 17:45:31 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: slovak - 35 changes by klingacik 17:50:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:02:11 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:13:57 <Elukka> Eddi|ZuHause: do you know if the typical prussian coach had the brakeman's cabin or if those were some kind of special coach they'd put at the end of a train or something? 18:14:06 <Elukka> i'm seeing lots of variants with one and without one 18:17:47 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 18:18:48 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:48 <Elukka> ah, i guess they were pretty common 18:24:23 <Bjarni> I wonder a bit about the whole brakevan idea 18:24:48 <Bjarni> logically it would be better to just add the brakes to the actual cars 18:24:54 <Bjarni> and ideally all of them 18:26:15 <Bjarni> so why did some country save so much on brakes? 18:26:59 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:27:44 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 18:28:24 <Elukka> they didn't have continuous braking... so each car with brakes had to have a person to operate them 18:29:23 <Elukka> and i suppose adding a brakeman's cab to every car would be a bit of expense plus they use a bit of space 18:32:12 <EyeMWing> Brake vans (or whatever's at the end) would typically run with the brakes partially applied to keep slack out of the train. 18:33:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:33:25 <EyeMWing> Which is particularly important if your couplers allow a lot of slack. 18:34:09 <Bjarni> Passengertrains in Denmark didn't have either brakevan or brakeman's cabs. Instead they just had a brake on the end. No wasted space and nobody said all brakes had to be manned 18:34:49 <Elukka> a brake in the end operated how? 18:35:46 <Bjarni> it would make sense to avoid slack. After all back when cars were connected by hook and chains without spindles, the slack were really bad 18:36:45 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:36:49 <Elukka> i'm not aware that we had either brake vans or brakemen either (though i'm not sure), but i think that had more to do that trains before continuous braking were pretty short 18:37:21 <Elukka> for some reason the brits had brake vans and brakeless freight cars into the 60's 18:38:00 <Bjarni> That's around 100 years after Westinghouse invented the air brake 18:38:12 <Elukka> yeeeep 18:38:30 <EyeMWing> There is no force in the universe more powerful than British conservatism. 18:38:45 <Bjarni> Denmark didn't use compressed air brakes until the Germans ordered those as a standard in 1939 18:38:53 <Bjarni> before that it was vacuum 18:40:02 <Bjarni> to begin with railroads were not too pleased with air brakes 18:40:15 <Bjarni> they were expensive and could they be trusted? 18:40:27 <Bjarni> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Train_wreck_at_Montparnasse_1895.jpg <-- result of ice in the brakepipe 18:40:50 <Bjarni> however that's 1895, not 1960 :p 18:41:17 <andythenorth> could we extend newgrf spec please? To allow/require industry tiles to overbuild houses 18:41:51 <Bjarni> you mean like clearing a house to make room for a factory? 18:42:31 <Swissfan91> does anyone know how to make a building sprite place a tree from whichever tree set is loaded? 18:43:49 <Bjarni> you guys do realise you want to push newgrf specs quite a lot, don't you :p 18:44:21 <EyeMWing> Why bother extending the spec if nobody wants to use it? 18:44:57 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 18:45:06 <andythenorth> EyeMWing: ok good point 18:45:08 <andythenorth> let's not bother 18:45:34 <EyeMWing> no, I'm pointing out that your constantly needing the spec pushed is a good thing. 18:45:55 <andythenorth> :) 18:46:45 <EyeMWing> Heck, I've been doing this newgrf thing quietly for all of 2 weeks and I already have a small wishlist of requests. 18:47:26 <Bjarni> that's good 18:47:35 <andythenorth> Bjarni: quite a bit of the extension is to avoid relying on overly-specific special flags 18:47:37 <Bjarni> new ideas is the first step to progress 18:49:12 <Sacro> :Lo 18:49:16 <Sacro> BHARNI! 18:49:39 <Sacro> @seen Bjarni 18:49:39 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 minutes and 1 second ago: <Bjarni> new ideas is the first step to progress 18:49:42 <Sacro> <3 18:49:56 <Bjarni> bummer 18:50:11 <Bjarni> you even repeat the line I made a grammar error in >_< 18:50:20 <Sacro> indeed 18:51:03 <Rubidium> pff... grammar? 18:51:19 <Rubidium> isn't ideas just a new Apple product? 18:51:49 <Bjarni> ideas can be lots of stuff 18:52:20 <Bjarni> and they might not even be good 18:52:28 <Bjarni> such as OpenTTD 3D 18:52:31 <Rubidium> likewise that windows can be used as both a plural as well as singular 18:53:31 *** burtybob [d48b6802@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:53:36 <Elukka> 3D... i think it's taken up until the last couple of years for 3D sequels to isometric 2D games to actually look good 18:53:47 <Elukka> there was this uncomfortable period where everyone wanted 3D but it just didn't quite look as good 18:54:32 <Bjarni> I read a review of minecraft. It stated that the game could have been made 10 years ago, but back then everybody just wanted 3D and not gameplay 18:54:47 <Bjarni> everybody= people in charge of gaming industry 18:54:50 <Elukka> minecraft has barely any gameplay though :P 18:55:02 <Elukka> more like a pure sandbox 18:55:30 <Elukka> anno 1404 made me realize that finally 3D games can look as good, and better, as the old isometric games 18:55:32 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/screenshot0258.jpg 18:55:43 <Bjarni> it's not limiting the players ability to do what he wants to do 18:56:07 <burtybob> Does anyone have any idea why I can't buy out companies in a game I saved from a multiplayer game? (Running 1.1.3-RC1) All settings are set to on in regards buying shares and I can buy up to and including 75% 18:56:35 <Bjarni> buying other companies are disabled in multiplayer since they causes desyncs 18:56:46 <Rubidium> Bjarni: lies 18:56:46 <Bjarni> I guess that ban is saved in your game 18:56:55 <Bjarni> Rubidium: you changed that? 18:56:58 <Elukka> hmm... 18:57:09 <Elukka> a competitive mode could be kinda interesting 18:57:32 <Bjarni> ok, they used to cause desyncs then :p 18:57:33 <Rubidium> Bjarni: shares are disabled because they make it very easy to cheat yourself into having loads of money very quickly 18:57:36 <Elukka> i think the one good idea sid meier's railroads had was the fairly fast paced competitive multiplayer that felt much like an RTS skirmish 18:57:55 <Elukka> i'd still play ttd mostly as a sandbox but i wouldn't mind an occasional competitive match 18:58:28 <burtybob> So is there no way to buy out the old Player companies? I'd just have to bankrupt them? 18:58:31 <frosch123> Bjarni seems to still live in the year 2008 or so :p 18:58:39 <frosch123> *life 18:58:39 <Bjarni> man I feel old school. Reading "sid meier's railroads" made me think of Railroad Tycoon and didn't even realise until I read the word multiplayer :p 18:58:45 <frosch123> whatever 18:58:51 *** NOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-93-202.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:48 <Bjarni> frosch123: wrong year :P 18:59:56 <Bjarni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOfZLb33uCg&ob=av2e <-- more like this one 19:00:00 * Bjarni hides 19:00:04 <Rubidium> burtybob: might be that buying the company would make you go over one of the vehicle limits? 19:00:21 <frosch123> Bjarni: not available here 19:00:31 <Bjarni> so the video hides too 19:01:29 <Rubidium> hmm... 19:01:43 <Rubidium> if (!c->is_ai) return cost; // We can not buy out a real company (temporarily). TODO: well, enable it obviously. 19:01:56 <Rubidium> seems you can't take over non-AIs, unless they're bankrupting 19:02:21 <Bjarni> temporarily is how many years? 19:02:30 <Rubidium> probably because of hostile takeovers in MP. The owner of the company that is to be taken over should be asked first 19:02:34 <planetmaker> well. It's there for gameplay reasons 19:02:40 <planetmaker> yeah 19:02:50 <Rubidium> Bjarni: since 0.3.4/5 ? 19:03:12 <planetmaker> I mean, I could otherwise annoy out of playing all other players when I'm the leading company 19:03:36 <planetmaker> just buy them... and 'good bye' (or good buy?) 19:03:43 <Bjarni> I seem to recall this was disabled because it caused desyncs. Then everybody agreed not to fix it because of gameplay issues. 19:04:24 <Bjarni> something like one guy could become much richer than everybody else and buy everybody (hostile takeover) and nobody else would have a chance 19:04:37 <Rubidium> Bjarni: if it caused desyncs, then bankruptcy would as well... so it should've been fixed 19:05:18 <Bjarni> hmm 19:05:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22917 /trunk/src/lang/croatian.txt: -Fix: translation failed to conform to rules of strgen 19:06:07 <Bjarni> maybe not. It depends on how the "lost player" client acts. If bankruptcy kicks him and hostile takeover doesn't.... or something like that. 19:06:28 <Bjarni> though it is likely that such an issue could have been fixed 19:06:44 <Bjarni> after all most of the code have been modified since back then 19:07:16 <Rubidium> anyhow, either it's me or the process has been improved... but I'm not seeing many real desyncs these times. Most (if not all) of the recent ones seem to be theoretical rather than from a bug report 19:07:36 <Elukka> what about a mode where the player who eliminates all other companies by hostile takeovers wins? 19:07:44 <Elukka> would have to be played with gentlemen with all the exploits around ;P 19:08:06 <Bjarni> that would be interesting 19:08:22 <Rubidium> well, first fix the "generate free money with shares" issue 19:08:30 <Bjarni> though I bet it would need to be a password protected server 19:08:31 <frosch123> that would always result in a draw? 19:08:43 <frosch123> unless you can force other players to sell their stocks 19:09:03 <Rubidium> otherwise starting the 3 earliest companies would mean you've basically won that game 19:09:06 <Elukka> you'd just buy out their stocks, they don't get a say 19:09:28 <Elukka> yeah i think this would have to be a fairly fast paced game on a smallish map that's played with the same players in one or two sittings 19:09:36 <frosch123> Elukka: imagine 3 companies who have bought 25% of each of them 19:09:51 <Bjarni> companies younger than 10 years shouldn't sell stocks 19:10:00 <frosch123> noone can get more than 75%, because 25% are always owned by someone else 19:10:06 <Bjarni> not realistic, but could do for gameplay 19:10:22 <Rubidium> Bjarni: it's already 5 or 6 years 19:10:24 <Elukka> the whole idea is unrealistic anyhow :D 19:10:54 <Bjarni> all companies could end up with 4 owners owning 25% each and cause a draw 19:11:16 <Elukka> i imagine you could still buy the portions of a company even if it's owned by someone else 19:11:17 <Bjarni> <Elukka> the whole idea is unrealistic anyhow :D <--- the game is unrealistic.... live with it :P 19:11:20 <Elukka> shit, how did it work... 19:11:24 <Elukka> hey it was my idea i know 19:11:31 <Elukka> sid meier's railroads did just this 19:12:09 *** burtybob [d48b6802@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 19:14:59 <Bjarni> Railroad Tycoon 2 had an interesting stock system 19:15:18 <Bjarni> where companies could get money by making more stocks 19:15:28 <Bjarni> *releasing more stocks 19:15:53 <Bjarni> meaning if you own 40% of a company and you didn't pay attention you could end up owning 24% 19:17:15 <frosch123> it's called "increase of capital stock" 19:17:42 <Bjarni> buying stocks on margin is an interesting idea too 19:18:03 <Bjarni> though it could go really bad if you failed to meet a margin call :p 19:18:14 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:18:17 <frosch123> "increas of capital" is a normal thing to avoid take-overs 19:18:33 <Bjarni> then it autosold stocks until you had enough cash, though when stocks were sold, the price dropped, forcing you to sell even more 19:18:33 <frosch123> just, stock holders limit it usually :p 19:18:50 <Bjarni> and from one day to the next you could lose everything 19:19:25 * Bjarni should check what he writes before hitting enter 19:19:38 <Bjarni> you could lose everything in a single day 19:19:47 <EyeMWing> I remember that system. It was hilarious. 19:20:09 <EyeMWing> At one point I had my stock splitting every single month. 19:20:09 <Bjarni> kind of like real stock marked 19:20:27 <Bjarni> the margin thing was the thing which crashed Wall Street in 1929 19:20:41 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 19:22:59 <Bjarni> thinking of RT2, I remember I once had a game where I should take x carloads to Alaska within a certain time. I had the train reach the destination station, but before it was at the stopping point, time ran out >_< 19:23:32 <Bjarni> had the train been one tile closer, then it would have made it 19:23:39 <planetmaker> Elukka: the main problem is the starting time. People really would need to join all at the same time. Or some would have an unfair advantage. 19:23:49 <planetmaker> or at least unpausing at the same time 19:23:58 <planetmaker> EyeMWing: btw, your project now exists 19:24:07 <planetmaker> you probably got an e-mail about that 19:24:39 <EyeMWing> planetmaker: Just got it. Thanks. 19:25:10 <andythenorth> railroad tycoon 3 rinsed rt2 19:25:16 <andythenorth> it was seriously better 19:25:33 * andythenorth wonders if RT3 works on current OS X 10.6 :( 19:25:48 <andythenorth> open RT3! 19:26:40 <Elukka> planetmaker yeah 19:27:11 <Bjarni> I once wondered about mixing RT and settlers. I thought it would be cool to make those small men build railroads and build use those to transport all those goods, which they took ages to carry around 19:27:23 <Bjarni> I'm not going to code that :p 19:28:39 <Bjarni> I remember when RT3 came out for mac. and no demo. I seriously was unsure if I could run it "good enough" on my computer 19:28:46 <Elukka> one of my dream games that i'm not actually going to make is transport tycoon in pseudo-realistic space 19:28:50 <Bjarni> which made me turn away from it >_< 19:29:10 <Elukka> transfer orbits and launch windows might resemble railroads more than a bit actually 19:29:35 <Bjarni> sounds interestting.... 19:29:39 <Bjarni> and unusual 19:29:47 <Bjarni> though unusual can be a good thing 19:30:23 <Elukka> i think it's possible to make it easy on the player, though i imagine coding it would be a nightmare :D 19:31:20 <Bjarni> we should make a coding bot, which can take over for all the coding nightmares we don't want to do outselves 19:31:23 <Bjarni> now that would be cool 19:31:29 <Elukka> you'd have industries on planets and in orbit around them 19:31:29 <Bjarni> dream project 19:31:38 <Elukka> and space habitats and whatnot 19:31:52 <Bjarni> just one question: where do the steam trains get oxygen from in space? 19:32:08 <Bjarni> :p 19:32:10 <Elukka> ha :P 19:32:47 <Elukka> the way space works is you have orbits that take little fuel but take a long while and have limited launch windows 19:33:04 <Elukka> these could be economical for big ore freighters and that sort of thing, so they'd essentially run on rails and on schedules 19:33:18 <Elukka> but you can always use more fuel to get where you're going faster 19:33:52 <Bjarni> I fear I could spend ages coding that and then the gameplay turns out to suck :p 19:33:55 <Elukka> suppose you want to transport fusion fuel from saturn to the lucrative earth market 19:33:56 <Bjarni> sounds nice though 19:34:16 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:34:43 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:49 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 19:35:49 <Elukka> you go to a route planner screen, give your ship orders to load helium-3 at saturn and to make a stop at your fuel depot to load up on fuel 19:36:31 <Elukka> then click on earth, and select what kind of trajectory you want it to fly (this could simply be a slider, the less fuel the more time the more fuel the less time it takes), unload the helium-3 and visit another fuel depot to stock up on fuel again 19:36:40 <Elukka> it'll do this automatically just like ttd trains unless you tell it to stop 19:37:11 <Elukka> the challenge comes from gaining a competitive edge, perhaps by better spacecraft, a cheap source of fuel, maybe you'll build your own fuel depots or something 19:38:17 <Elukka> ideally you of course want your ships to fly their routes fast but you've somehow got to secure the fuel for them and it might not be cheap everywhere, so burning too much cuts deep into your profit margins 19:39:42 <Bjarni> I once made my own board game. The game field was just a pieced of squared A4 paper. Each player had a starting location and then one could dig around. Dice could tell if mines were discovered 19:39:57 <Bjarni> the goal was to find as many mines and correct ones to produce stuff 19:40:00 <Bjarni> and get rich 19:40:09 <Elukka> heh 19:40:14 <Bjarni> or make soldiers to steal the stuff from the other guys 19:40:15 <Elukka> damn, now i want my space ttd again :( 19:40:28 <Elukka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn-e5QlfJWA 19:40:35 <Elukka> i imagine the aesthetics would look rather like this amazing video 19:40:39 <__ln__> Bjarni on deck! 19:40:40 <Bjarni> I never finished making the rules and new stuff came up for each game 19:40:50 <Elukka> in style 19:41:29 <Bjarni> come to think of it, I guess I could actually code that game. It wasn't that complex 19:41:50 <Bjarni> though I think it was more fun to play when I was 10 :p 19:42:43 <Bjarni> oh yeah, your "people" were dwarves and like Moria you could encounter stuff in the rocks, which were not meant to be released 19:43:38 <Bjarni> I recall one time my friend did that right in the beginning before he had means of defending himself.... he wasn't happy :p 19:43:57 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-110-158.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 19:44:00 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 19:44:59 * planetmaker feels like being in #alt.games.misc 19:45:29 <Bjarni> maybe you are 19:45:38 <Bjarni> in an alternative universe 19:46:26 <Bjarni> Elukka: I bet planetmaker could help you to make your game. After all he is experienced with planets and orbits ;) 19:47:32 <Elukka> well 19:47:44 <Elukka> i have knowledge of planets and orbits, but zero knowledge of making a game :P 19:47:55 <pjpe> it's easy 19:47:58 <pjpe> you just use your keyboard 19:47:59 <pjpe> and then boom game 19:48:54 <Elukka> the extent of my usefulness is that i have an idea of how space and spacecraft work and can make 3D models and textures and sprites 19:48:57 <Bjarni> Elukka: making a game is easy. Just draw what you want and then pay some Asian to do it 19:49:19 <Bjarni> you will end up with your game, but it will act as spyware as well 19:49:23 <Elukka> ha 19:50:16 <Bjarni> once some HDs were produced in China and they came preformatted.... somebody figured out the preformatted disks contained spyware 19:50:26 <Elukka> i do have the occasional tendency to model spacecraft 19:50:29 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/a.jpg 19:50:30 <Bjarni> normal HDs you could buy in computer stores 19:50:35 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/interceptorb-1.png 19:51:08 <Bjarni> I once tried to build the cargo ship from Deuteros out of lego 19:51:08 <Elukka> yeah i heard something about that 19:51:12 <Bjarni> went ok 19:51:40 <Bjarni> though I used all my blocks so I had nowhere to dock it :p 19:52:59 <andythenorth> bricklink :P 19:53:32 <Bjarni> I think I built it 20 years ago 19:53:44 <Bjarni> and I have taken it apart afterwards 19:58:47 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-40-22.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 19:58:47 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-110-158.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:01:06 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-40-22.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [] 20:03:20 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 20:11:04 <Elukka> man i want the technology they have in CSI 20:11:14 <Elukka> *takes pictures* 20:11:22 <Elukka> computer goes *BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP building 3D object* 20:11:27 <Elukka> 5 seconds later, nice clean 3D model 20:11:34 <Rubidium> yeah, that'd be lovely... 20:12:33 <TrueBrain> # hack FBI 20:12:40 <TrueBrain> I keep trying it 20:12:45 <TrueBrain> one day, I promise, it will work! 20:14:01 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: don't you mean @hack FBI? ;) 20:16:45 <Elukka> i bet they would alos love to have that technology :P 20:16:47 <Elukka> *also 20:17:02 <pjpe> you mean like a laser scanner? 20:17:39 <Elukka> like a laser scanner except without it taking hours to scan and dozens of hour to process afterwards 20:17:45 <Terkhen> a laser scanner takes a lot of time, yup 20:17:55 <Elukka> it just makes a point cloud 20:18:00 <Terkhen> joining the different meshes is a PITA 20:18:30 <Terkhen> that's scary, the one I used automatically triangulated the mesh :P 20:19:36 <Elukka> huh. 20:19:51 <Elukka> haven't heard that they could actually make a solid surface mesh 20:21:14 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you do that on-the-fly? you have a locality condition based on the order the points were scanned# 20:21:25 <Terkhen> with this one the mesh cames triangulated already from the machine itself; it also comes with colour for each point 20:21:34 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: yes, that's what the model I used does 20:21:49 <Terkhen> it just takes a squared mesh and triangulates each square of points 20:24:36 *** Markk is now known as Mark 20:24:43 *** Mark is now known as Markk 20:43:04 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: are the grey prussian coaches just kinda medium grey like the roofs? i've never seen any models or pictures of any 20:45:11 <Eddi|zuHause> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqEOKkEE3tI)5yN(BN+PQLMfz!~~0_35.JPG 20:46:08 <Elukka> oh, that color 20:46:40 <Elukka> wonder why nobody seems to make models of grey compartment coaches.. 20:46:44 <Elukka> hm. so fairly light colored i gues 20:46:46 <Elukka> s 20:47:58 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 20:48:02 <Swissfan91> you're a real regular on here, aren't you Elukka :) 20:48:39 <Elukka> came to ask a question, stayed to draw trains 20:48:57 <Terkhen> :P 20:49:40 <V453000> good move :D 20:50:15 <JVassie> Terkhen: can NML handle stations? 20:50:18 <JVassie> cant remember :p 20:50:20 <Terkhen> no 20:50:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so yet 20:50:46 <JVassie> an excuse for me not coding BMSS yet then :p 20:51:09 <Terkhen> learn python instead and help with nml development :P 20:51:29 <Swissfan91> if I can 'learn' to draw, jvassie, you can code that set :P 20:52:06 <JVassie> got too much on my plate *whistles* 20:52:55 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.84.107] has joined #openttd 20:53:56 <JVassie> 9-6 job, C++ games dev diploma, writing my own MMO 20:56:29 <Terkhen> indeed :P 20:56:30 <JVassie> nfo stations are a barrel of laughs ive heard too 20:58:10 <Elukka> swissfan you can learn to draw just by drawing a bit :P 20:58:27 * Terkhen only managed to learn how to recolour and copy paste stuff 20:59:34 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-24.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 21:02:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 21:03:23 <Elukka> i think everyone can learn to draw if they put enough effort to it 21:03:29 <Elukka> similarly even i could learn to code :P 21:03:43 <planetmaker> :-) definitely true. At least to some extent 21:05:08 <JVassie> heh 21:05:19 <JVassie> think it was PM who gave me some sampel station code 21:05:29 <JVassie> took me ages just to get copy paste working :/ 21:05:35 <planetmaker> I don't think so. 21:05:40 <planetmaker> nfo stations are a mystery to me 21:05:52 <planetmaker> probably y exo 21:10:49 <Yexo> just spell it out, I don't care about the highlight :) 21:15:20 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: is it both ends of the templates that overlap by 1 px? 21:15:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, one overlaps with the other, so if you want a gap, you must make both transparent 21:16:00 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise, both should be same colour, or you get weird effects 21:16:05 <Elukka> right 21:16:17 <Eddi|zuHause> occasonally one is drawn over the other... 21:17:12 <Elukka> is it the vertical column or the horizontal row that overlaps in the views between 45 degree and 90 degree diagonal? 21:34:50 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the dark green line in any view 21:35:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. the line in the front and back of the vehicle 21:35:51 <Elukka> ah 21:40:38 <Terkhen> good night 21:43:34 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:46:46 <Wolf01> 'night 21:46:50 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.233.237.150] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:49:54 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:00:38 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:05:32 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7886.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:18 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ff1cc000-21.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 22:18:53 <__ln__> Bjarni: There has been some recent speculation here that OpenTTD has existed for MacOS classic, but that's definitely not true, right? 22:19:06 <Swissfan91> which colours can I NOT use in the win palette? 22:21:17 <Eddi|zuHause> you can use all colours, but they may have effects you don't want 22:21:40 <Swissfan91> I see.. 22:22:04 <Elukka> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/PalettesAndCoordinates 22:22:07 <Elukka> use everything labeled normal 22:22:13 <Elukka> and company colors if you want company colors 22:22:33 <Swissfan91> as I'm drawing buildings.. I must still avoid the company colours then? 22:23:11 <Elukka> no idea! 22:23:40 <planetmaker> depends on the intended effect(s) 22:24:13 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:26:06 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Houses#Random_colours_.2817.29 or http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callbacks#Building_colour_.281E.29 22:26:15 <planetmaker> allow to specify colour 22:26:23 <Eddi|zuHause> afair company colours are just normal colours unless you give a flag to recolour it 22:27:25 <Elukka> hmm this coach looks so boring when it's grey 22:27:32 <Elukka> i guess it'll look more interesting mixed in with other colors 22:28:01 <Swissfan91> thank you guys. 22:28:17 <Bjarni> <__ln__> Bjarni: There has been some recent speculation here that OpenTTD has existed for MacOS classic, but that's definitely not true, right? <-- "oru-dge" (highlight avoidance) once looked at it but the last I heard was that he had bought the compiler CD and he was unsure if he really wanted to do it. 22:28:26 <planetmaker> I don't think so, Eddi|zuHause. At least I don't see such flag anywhere 22:29:09 <__ln__> Ammler: 01:28 <@Bjarni> <__ln__> Bjarni: There has been some recent speculation here that OpenTTD has existed for MacOS classic, but that's definitely not true, right? <-- "oru-dge" (highlight avoidance) once looked at it but the last I heard was that he had bought the compiler CD and he was unsure if he really wanted to do it. 22:29:37 <Bjarni> I never even considered trying to port OpenTTD to classic. OSX can use the makefile. Classic can't, which means it would be a huge amount of work, both to make in the first place and then maintain 22:30:07 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CFB0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:17 <Swissfan91> unfortunately, the palette I have doesn't really resemble the one on that wiki page. I have the tiny one. 22:30:46 <__ln__> And only a very limited set of classic-capable macs are powerful enough to run it anyway. 22:31:21 <Bjarni> G4 Quicksilver can, but then again you can just install OSX 10.4 on it 22:31:59 <Bjarni> honestly I don't care for classic anymore 22:33:04 <Bjarni> well in a way I do, but as an extra like UAE is extra to relive the Amiga days 22:33:28 <Bjarni> nobody really use classic today without also having OSX or windows 22:33:51 <__ln__> probably true 22:34:09 * Bjarni imagines somebody starting to search for a classic user in Mexico just to disproof that statement 22:35:08 <Bjarni> I'm not even sure if classic has a browser, which is able to download the game. SF scripts could fail on such old browsers 22:35:20 <Bjarni> I think it was explorer 5 and netscape 3 or something like that 22:35:47 <__ln__> Bjarni: have i shown you this link: http://www.nbl.fi/~nbl3392/ikkuna/ 22:35:59 <Bjarni> now you have 22:36:09 <Bjarni> oh yeah 22:36:13 <Bjarni> I have seen it before 22:37:09 <Bjarni> the iMac had a 233 MHz G3 22:37:18 <Bjarni> too slow for OpenTTD 22:37:32 <Bjarni> I think it could run OSX 10.2, but not 10.3 22:39:19 <Bjarni> http://www.nbl.fi/~nbl3392/ikkuna/pict7753_sm.jpg <--- I think the top one has a 300 MHz G3, which is able to run OSX 10.3. Technically that one can run OpenTTD 22:39:48 <Bjarni> I remember I knew somebody who had that one.... in 1999 22:40:25 <Bjarni> (if it is the one I'm thinking of) 22:47:18 <Bjarni> wtf 22:47:41 <Elukka> Eddi|ZuHause: what do you think? 22:47:41 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/abteilwagen-1.png 22:47:47 <Bjarni> CBS news states that Steve Jobs has died and now they say sorry, it was a mistake. He is alive 22:48:22 <Bjarni> how can anybody state publicly that a famous person is dead when they aren't? 22:48:39 <Bjarni> did somebody shortsell Apple stocks or something? 22:49:12 <Eddi|zuHause> it's investigative journalism 2.0 22:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause> somebody picks up a random twitter message and distributes it as news 22:50:00 <Eddi|zuHause> fact checking is "outsourced" :) 22:50:06 <Elukka> otherwise someone else might get the scoop first! 22:50:07 <pjpe> the news does that all the time 22:50:10 <pjpe> google it 22:50:15 <Bjarni> A TV channel in Denmark wrote on their homepage that the prime minister had set a date for the next election.... the problem was that he didn't 22:50:23 <Bjarni> now he has.... on a different date 22:50:26 <pjpe> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_premature_obituaries 22:50:43 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, all the www.is<famousperson>deadyet.com websites are there for a reason :p 22:50:53 <pjpe> a decent amount just seem to be started by someone on twitter 22:51:01 <__ln__> one variant of that is that a reporter creates an "article" (i.e. a list of quotes) based on user comments of some previous article. 22:51:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Karl Ranseier is dead... 22:51:49 <Bjarni> but Elvis lives.... 22:51:52 <Bjarni> :p 22:52:03 <pjpe> rick james is dead 22:52:04 <pjpe> who woulda known 22:52:25 <Eddi|zuHause> who is rick games? 22:52:32 <pjpe> rick james 22:52:39 <pjpe> popular musician from the 80's 22:52:41 <pjpe> had some good hits 22:52:44 <pjpe> superfreak 22:52:45 <pjpe> mary janes 22:52:55 <pjpe> you and i 22:53:05 <Eddi|zuHause> "Karl Ranseier is dead" was a recurring joke in the german version of "Saturday Night Live" 22:53:20 <Bjarni> can you really be named "Games" as last name? 22:53:20 <pjpe> there was a german version? 22:53:22 <pjpe> that sounds 22:53:23 <Elukka> bjarni: elvis lives in NASA's nuclear moonbase 22:53:25 <pjpe> i've gotta say 22:53:26 <pjpe> terrible 22:53:45 <Bjarni> that would make you able to call your son "Mario Games" 22:53:56 <pjpe> you can call children anything you want 22:54:05 <Eddi|zuHause> where they then read a made up obituary like "the least successful journalist in the world died while trying to write an article about journalism" 22:54:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: is that next to hitler's moon base? 22:54:49 <__ln__> hitler is also dead! 22:54:53 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 22:54:56 <Eddi|zuHause> pjpe: it was pretty popular back then 22:54:57 <Bjarni> pjpe: no. It's not allowed to call boys "Christophpher". Some woman got really upset about that a few years ago :p 22:54:59 <Elukka> no, hitler is also on the moon 22:55:08 <pjpe> maybe in europe 22:55:12 <__ln__> @seen hitler 22:55:12 <DorpsGek> __ln__: I have not seen hitler. 22:55:12 <pjpe> not in north america 22:55:31 <Elukka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNDaOFQ6g2I 22:55:34 <Elukka> it is quite well known 22:55:34 <pjpe> frank zappa called his children 22:55:35 <pjpe> uh 22:55:36 <pjpe> moon unit 22:55:37 <pjpe> and 22:56:03 <Eddi|zuHause> germany used to have quite strict laws about what you may name a child 22:56:09 <pjpe> moon unit zappa, dweezil zappa, ahmet zappa and diva zappa 22:56:11 <pjpe> and these are real names 22:56:13 <Eddi|zuHause> don't know if they have been loosened a bit 22:56:33 <pjpe> if you wanted to call your child fuckshitpisscunt you probably could 22:56:38 <pjpe> might be considered child abuse 22:57:10 <Elukka> diva zappa's full name is diva thin muffin pigeen zappa 22:57:11 <Eddi|zuHause> "Wollen Sie ihr Kind wirklich Claire nennen, Frau Grube?" 22:58:33 <Bjarni> "Claire Grube"... what am I missing here? 22:58:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: "KlÀrgrube" is a sewer treatment plant 22:59:09 <Bjarni> haha 22:59:26 <pjpe> can you legally change your name in germany 22:59:29 <pjpe> and switzerland 22:59:33 <pjpe> or are you stuck with it forever 22:59:45 <Elukka> udo kier is the best actor at describing evil plans 22:59:52 <Bjarni> you can always marry to get a new one :P 23:00:04 <Eddi|zuHause> pjpe: dunno, never knew anybody who did that. but you can choose an "artist name" 23:00:44 <Eddi|zuHause> it will be written into your ID card as legal name 23:00:45 <pjpe> if i wanted to i could go down to the courthouse and become 23:00:46 <pjpe> max power 23:00:50 <pjpe> or seven costanza 23:00:55 <pjpe> or anything i so desire! 23:01:03 <Bjarni> Denmark allows namechange and as a result some voodoo bogus people get paid to tell people what they should call themselves to fit with their stars 23:01:11 <Bjarni> and it's always something silly they come up with 23:01:16 <pjpe> i wonder if i'd keep my old name on my second passport though 23:01:19 <pjpe> man that gets fucked up 23:01:31 <Bjarni> and people change their names to increase the chance of winning the lotto or something 23:02:16 <__ln__> "Danger Powers?" - "No, no, Danger is my middle name." 23:02:22 <Bjarni> pjpe: are you allowed to change your name to Maria? 23:02:28 <pjpe> i don't see why not 23:03:35 <Bjarni> some guy in the midwest changed his name to Santa Claus and demanded all the mail sent to his name. US postal service refused because the address is "North Pole", not his state 23:03:58 <Eddi|zuHause> the german law says your primrary surname must indicate your gender 23:04:26 <Bjarni> Picasso was also named Maria 23:04:26 <Eddi|zuHause> so "Maria" can only be a secondary name (that actually is quite popular) 23:04:33 <pjpe> i bet it says you have to separate your trash in to different bins too 23:04:36 <pjpe> and drive on the right side of the road 23:04:38 <pjpe> how awful 23:05:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think separating trash is an actual law :p 23:05:18 <pjpe> i thought you could get fined for not recycling properly 23:05:42 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause> you can get fined if there is unrecycleable stuff in the recycle bin 23:05:56 <Bjarni> Some guy I know was outside at 4 am and saw the garbage truck and the guys collecting. They put all the trash together in the truck... so much for sorting your garbage 23:06:13 <Bjarni> he got upset that they did that after he spent time sorting 23:06:19 <Eddi|zuHause> but nothing forbids you from throwing everything in the "normal" bin 23:06:28 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: did you see the sprite? :P 23:06:32 *** Sionide [~sionide@cpc1-nrwh5-0-0-cust298.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:06:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: yes, not entire sure about it yet 23:06:49 <Elukka> me neither 23:07:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: something else, i recommended to oberhÃŒmer to include the template length you based your sprites on in the filename, you should do that, too 23:07:31 <Elukka> might do some freight car in the meantime to see if something occurs to me 23:07:38 <Elukka> well that's easy enough 23:08:17 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 23:09:22 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:26 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 23:09:30 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-24.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:09:40 <planetmaker> that's actually a _very_ helpful suggestion when coding :-) 23:09:57 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/abteilwagen_g.png 23:10:17 <Elukka> that's how it looks like green - of course it's not the exact right coach for that but close enough to see how green coaches would look like 23:11:59 <planetmaker> good night 23:14:05 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 23:15:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: some wagons should probably get a braker's cabin at the end 23:15:52 <Elukka> yeah 23:16:36 <Elukka> right now i'm concerned with getting the general look and detailing right as i can always make different variations later 23:16:47 <Elukka> the other angles i just do by copypasting and then adjusting the lighting to fit 23:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the roof should get slightly brown-ish grey 23:24:47 <Elukka> hmm 23:24:56 <Elukka> i think they're grey, they just get sooty easily from all the steam 23:25:09 <Elukka> or is that just to differentiate it a bit from the grey walls? 23:27:37 <Eddi|zuHause> according to the PDF, colour was brown-ish grey at first, and later nearly white 23:27:53 <Elukka> ooh 23:28:41 <Elukka> unfortunately my german is almost nonexistent :D 23:28:49 <Elukka> do you think the roof brightness is about right? 23:28:57 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause> 4th class compartment wagons appeared pretty late 23:29:36 <Elukka> ah, so almost white 23:30:19 <Eddi|zuHause> because originally the 3-axle compartment wagons were intended for express usage, which usually didn't have 4th class. 23:31:25 <Elukka> then almost white sounds more appropriate than brownish grey, no? 23:31:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i think so 23:31:57 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:33:58 <Eddi|zuHause> 3rd class is wooden benches, and 4th class originallly no benches at all, later benches along the wall 23:34:58 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.84.107] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:35:19 <Eddi|zuHause> in DRG times, 4th class was abolished 23:37:50 <Elukka> green looks weird with the almost white roof, grey looks better with it 23:39:12 *** Swissfan91 [Swissfan91@5e0ad068.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 23:44:54 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/abteilwagen2.png 23:44:55 <Elukka> hm 23:46:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hm looks strange. and the view on the right might be too narrow 23:47:36 <Elukka> i think the roof might actually look better were it brownish 23:49:38 <Elukka> would add some much needed color 23:49:48 <Elukka> from an aesthetic standpoint, dunno about accuracy 23:56:15 <Elukka> on the right view.. i was thinking it would overlap if it were wider 23:56:41 <Elukka> it's 1px off the dark green line on the right side