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00:03:44 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db1ab47.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 00:05:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A198E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:57 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 00:15:26 *** loopcoop [~loopcoop@a-84-21.sc.andrews.edu] has joined #openttd 00:15:43 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B7533A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:19:47 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75BCD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:41:25 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:b164:ddc8:abb4:1eba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:36 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:b164:ddc8:abb4:1eba] has joined #openttd 00:54:15 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-28-142-116.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:18:19 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 01:18:19 *** George is now known as Guest10323 01:18:20 *** George|2 is now known as George 01:22:17 *** Guest10323 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:23:23 *** jotham [~jotham@66.35.48.56] has left #openttd [] 02:01:39 *** najevi [3ce27ca3@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 02:07:17 *** loopcoop [~loopcoop@a-84-21.sc.andrews.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:08:38 <najevi> I have a problem efficiently delivering passengers/mail to and from an airport that I built outside of TownA. Have read about two-way feeders at the wiki and it seems that solution requires 2 airports (yuk!). Is there a way to specify that passengers "enroute from TownA" do _not_ get picked up by your feeder train/bus that delivers passengers _to_ TownA. 02:10:00 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 02:14:04 *** loopcoop [~loopcoop@a-84-21.sc.andrews.edu] has joined #openttd 02:25:26 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-218-153.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:29:45 <Elukka> nope 02:30:11 <Elukka> unless you use a cargo destinations patch like yacd or cargodist which in my opinion makes it much better 02:30:47 <Elukka> makes passengers know where to go and they'll take any vehicle and make transfers by themselves to get there 02:31:07 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-210-169.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:45:23 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:48:18 *** loopcoop [~loopcoop@a-84-21.sc.andrews.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:59:04 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:b164:ddc8:abb4:1eba] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:27:26 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 04:30:48 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B7533A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:27 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B73484.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:13:48 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 05:18:06 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:18:15 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:24:14 *** Vadtec_ [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has joined #openttd 05:25:02 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:25:02 *** Vadtec_ is now known as Vadtec 05:28:34 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 05:47:06 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:08:59 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 06:15:36 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 06:17:15 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0ad839.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:21:23 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:23:47 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 06:35:01 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 06:39:05 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:40:46 <appe> why can't you use a normal feeding service? 06:41:07 <appe> or am i failing to see the problem :) 06:43:06 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@195-240-99-235.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 06:48:30 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:54:40 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 06:54:43 <norbert79> Morning 07:12:22 <dihedral> greetings 07:13:08 <norbert79> Morning dihedral 07:13:48 <Elukka> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/1894/pr_3_abteilwagen_4kl_7lu_v2_fixed.png 07:13:50 <Elukka> spriiiites 07:14:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:14:39 <norbert79> Elukka: Why so many angles? 07:14:44 <andythenorth> morming 07:14:54 <Elukka> CETS has many an agle 07:14:57 <Elukka> *angle 07:15:04 <Elukka> goes smoother over corners 07:15:44 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 07:17:08 <norbert79> CETS? 07:17:18 <Elukka> central european train set 07:17:34 <norbert79> I see, but does OpenTTD make use of all these angles? 07:17:40 <Elukka> it does 07:18:05 <Elukka> all the grf has are green template boxes now, but those boxes look good in corners! 07:18:52 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-191-179.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:19:12 <norbert79> Well, one of the changes I wasn't aware of. NewGRF supporting more angles... 07:19:43 <norbert79> But I guess it's kinda an animation trick... :) 07:19:50 <norbert79> It will be shown as sequences 07:20:02 <norbert79> but then still using the regular angles 07:24:34 <planetmaker> moin 07:24:41 <norbert79> Moin moin 07:24:47 <planetmaker> norbert79: it's nothing new. That would in principle work for years 07:25:00 <planetmaker> just no-one wrote a newgrf like that 07:25:06 <norbert79> planetmaker: New for me, never seen any GRF's yet supporting it 07:25:14 <norbert79> planetmaker: Exactly :) 07:25:59 <Elukka> yeah i don't think any other grf has done it so far 07:26:48 <planetmaker> it has its problems which are not yet entirely resolved 07:27:01 <norbert79> I guess graphical glitches and such 07:28:02 <planetmaker> well... but mostly on grounds that it uses wagons longer than half a tile 07:28:46 <Elukka> planetmaker: what kind of graphical glitches can be expected by using wagons that long? 07:28:53 <Elukka> nothing too crippling i hope 07:29:15 <Elukka> long vehicles 4 certainly has its share of glitches but i'm fine with them 07:29:24 <planetmaker> similar 07:30:01 <Elukka> not too bad, then :) 07:30:28 <Elukka> certainly worth it 07:30:54 <planetmaker> well. I guess we only want to release it with most glitches gone ;-) 07:35:42 <Elukka> how unusual 07:35:54 <Elukka> my problem with this wagon is that i can fit too many windows 07:40:38 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: is there any preference regarding which end of the compartment coaches the brakeman's cabin should go? 07:40:41 <planetmaker> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/cets/nightlies/LATEST/ <-- see the glitches yourself with the test NewGRF, if you like 07:42:06 <Elukka> doesn't that require some sort of patch? 07:43:02 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:44:36 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 07:44:39 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 07:45:48 <planetmaker> I don't think so 07:47:22 <Elukka> i believe eddi mentioned the newest release doesn't work so well with unpatched ottd 07:47:24 <Elukka> can't hurt to try though 07:49:22 <planetmaker> yes, it will need a non-existing var 07:49:54 * andythenorth tries the grf 07:50:05 <andythenorth> how quaint 07:50:14 <andythenorth> next you'll be wanting curved tracks :) 07:50:47 <Elukka> well, it doesn't have the longest wagons but what's there seems to work fine 07:50:52 <Elukka> can't wait until they have graphics :P 07:53:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:53:42 <norbert79> Elukka: Screenshots please :)) 07:53:56 <Elukka> of it working fine? 07:53:57 <norbert79> I am curious 07:54:01 <norbert79> Sure 07:55:25 <planetmaker> download and test? 07:55:31 <planetmaker> screenshots don't really show it 07:55:35 <norbert79> planetmaker: Not possible atm 07:56:00 *** DiabloD3 [~diablo@pool-70-16-75-198.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #openttd 07:56:17 <norbert79> planetmaker: Doubt my employer would hooray my enthusiasm for the game... 07:56:44 <planetmaker> http://imagebin.org/172556 07:57:06 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/cets.png 07:57:10 <Elukka> beat me to it with a better screen :P 07:57:14 <Elukka> it does look more noticeable in motion 07:57:44 <Elukka> and... huh. why is my max train length so short? is that a patch option somewhere that i forgot to increase when i upgraded? 07:58:02 <planetmaker> it's an adv. setting somewhere 08:00:57 <Terkhen> good morning 08:01:34 <norbert79> Elukka: Not bad, but on your screen the first wagon looks a bit weird, like it would flip on it's side already 08:01:38 <planetmaker> moin Terkhen 08:01:46 <norbert79> Moin Terkhen 08:02:29 <planetmaker> and we already thought we could use those as the final graphics, norbert79! ;-) 08:02:59 <norbert79> planetmaker: Well, I smell a bit of sarcasm here :D 08:03:32 <norbert79> planetmaker: Just wanted to point out, that the sprite would need a bit of tuning ;-) 08:05:00 <norbert79> Yet it looks cool, no more edgy movement 08:05:41 <Elukka> i think my sprites might be inching slightly more towards 'decent enough' 08:08:03 <DiabloD3> you know 08:08:20 <DiabloD3> openttd should have font settings in the gui settings dialog 08:08:43 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/4_abteilwagen.png 08:08:46 <Elukka> speaking of sprites... 08:08:50 <norbert79> DiabloD3: There was a patch present for that, but it raises problems with ammount of fonts and/or font caches. 08:09:03 <Elukka> full length wagons are lovely to draw 08:09:14 <norbert79> DiabloD3: You should also not forget, that many systems use different font-systems 08:09:26 <DiabloD3> norbert79: openttd supports bitmap fonts 08:09:31 <DiabloD3> nothing stops it from just including more sizes. 08:10:00 <planetmaker> hm... But DiabloD3 didn't draw them! 08:10:08 <norbert79> DiabloD3: And what about computers, where there are tousands of fonts present? Not necessary using more fonts, feel free editing the ini file. The only nice thing would be just adding the possibility editing those lines from the GUI, but without a selection list... 08:10:15 <planetmaker> and on 2nd thought: no, I wouldn't want to include them 08:10:22 <norbert79> planetmaker: Ah, right, how dumb I am, he is so skilled... :) 08:10:29 <DiabloD3> norbert79: Im not saying use fonts from the system 08:10:34 <planetmaker> norbert79: very yes. 08:10:41 <planetmaker> (not you dum) 08:10:43 <planetmaker> +b 08:10:49 <DiabloD3> the tt font drawer is interesting, but ttd is largely a bitmap font game 08:10:52 <norbert79> DiabloD3: Besides, the problem also comes with Copyrights. 08:11:07 <DiabloD3> yes, and for example X's fonts are under a liberal license. 08:11:09 <norbert79> DiabloD3: And the game can handle TTF's too 08:11:18 <DiabloD3> yes, the game can, Im using a ttf font 08:11:20 <DiabloD3> I'd rather not. 08:11:31 <norbert79> DiabloD3: Use the defaults then :) 08:11:38 <DiabloD3> the defaults are too small 08:11:45 <planetmaker> a font selector would only make those you have available 08:11:48 <norbert79> Some cannot be satisifed... 08:11:57 <DiabloD3> planetmaker: not if it just says "small, medium, and large" 08:12:10 <planetmaker> it would 08:12:11 <DiabloD3> norbert79: Im on 1920x1200 on a 26". 08:12:15 <norbert79> small = a font for all those texts, which are tiny, like the graphs... 08:12:30 <norbert79> medium = texts for status windows 08:12:35 <norbert79> large = News articles 08:12:36 <DiabloD3> norbert79: no no no 08:12:42 <DiabloD3> small medium and large for medium. 08:12:44 <norbert79> set them to 16 or 24 pts then 08:12:53 <norbert79> you can set the font size too 08:12:56 <DiabloD3> yes I did 08:13:05 <DiabloD3> but you cant set the font size on the default font 08:13:05 <norbert79> Then why crying about it? 08:13:16 <norbert79> Define = Default 08:13:26 <norbert79> Define it.. What's the 'Default' font? 08:13:33 <planetmaker> DiabloD3: you cannot scale the default fonts 08:13:37 <planetmaker> they're pixel images 08:13:41 <DiabloD3> planetmaker: exactly, because it doesnt include multiple sizes 08:13:41 <norbert79> exactly... 08:13:45 <DiabloD3> what Im saying is, it should 08:13:48 <norbert79> Why? 08:13:56 <planetmaker> DiabloD3: and I say it shouldn't 08:14:09 <DiabloD3> planetmaker: it costs nothing to include more sizes. 08:14:11 <planetmaker> we have sytem fonts for those who don't like the sizes which are shipped 08:14:14 <norbert79> You can still create a GRF file solving this problem any time you wish :) 08:14:23 <planetmaker> DiabloD3: good. Please implement a patch. And get drawing 08:14:31 <planetmaker> It costs nothing, right? 08:14:33 <DiabloD3> whats your obsession with drawing? 08:14:41 <DiabloD3> use existing fonts. 08:14:47 <planetmaker> ... ? Where do you think the letters will come from? 08:14:49 <planetmaker> which existing? 08:14:59 <norbert79> DiabloD3: You know, that's what it is called COPYRIGHT 08:15:03 <planetmaker> Do you think you can steal? 08:15:14 <DiabloD3> norbert79: yes, and theres this thing called LICENSING 08:15:26 <norbert79> DiabloD3: Open Source game or not, if you still you get your *ss fried about that 08:15:43 <DiabloD3> you will get your ass fried using an open source font in an open source game/ 08:15:44 <DiabloD3> lol. 08:15:51 <planetmaker> DiabloD3: and those fonts are... hold your breath... truetype mostly 08:15:53 <norbert79> DiabloD3: Ok, show me ONE font, which would fit the game PERFECTLY and the owner would be happy using it for the game? 08:15:59 <DiabloD3> Someone needs to have a long conversation with a lawyer. 08:16:08 <planetmaker> you do that 08:16:12 <DiabloD3> planetmaker: X has a lot of MIT licensed bitmap fonts that are readable. 08:16:22 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A19E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:16:27 <norbert79> DiabloD3: Is the MIT license compatible with GPL? 08:16:30 <DiabloD3> Yes. 08:16:32 <norbert79> DiabloD3: Doubt HARDLY 08:16:35 <norbert79> red it 08:16:38 <norbert79> read it 08:16:41 <DiabloD3> FSF declared it so already. 08:16:49 <DiabloD3> ie, a group of lawyers. 08:17:10 <norbert79> DiabloD3: Can you provide also sources to this statement? 08:17:14 <planetmaker> good. As it was said that it costs me nothing... I'm still waiting :-) 08:17:24 <norbert79> planetmaker: Som do I 08:17:27 <norbert79> planetmaker: -m 08:17:36 <norbert79> :) 08:18:24 <DiabloD3> norbert79: I heard there was this website called google. 08:18:42 <norbert79> DiabloD3: I am fine with the built in one dude, it's your turn... 08:18:53 <norbert79> DiabloD3: You want to have them inside the game. Work for it. 08:20:13 <norbert79> planetmaker: Heh, I was almost told, that I should work this, to get his highness satisifed.. Interesting contribution model as I see :) 08:20:18 <DiabloD3> norbert79: are you even a openttd dev? why am I discussing this with you? 08:20:53 <norbert79> DiabloD3: Just one sentence: Good luck :D 08:20:54 <planetmaker> DiabloD3: but norbert is 100% right :-) 08:21:10 <DiabloD3> planetmaker: not really. 08:21:13 <DiabloD3> its a long standing bug. 08:21:19 <planetmaker> lool :-) 08:21:33 <DiabloD3> I have already given a solution that would be appropriate. 08:21:34 <norbert79> DiabloD3: Never seen any bug listing this as a bug, show us :) 08:21:34 <planetmaker> you can freely configure your font and size in the ini file 08:22:00 <planetmaker> norbert79: there's even somewhere (a probably meanwhile a bit outdated) patch to add a gui to font selection 08:22:21 <DiabloD3> You know what, this is why no one contributes to this fucking game. 08:22:26 <planetmaker> also ... adding another bitmap font is mostly pointless 08:22:30 <norbert79> planetmaker: That's what I have mentioned already, and asked about the font caches there... FOllowed up that a bit, since being a typhile :) 08:22:40 <planetmaker> there's more languages which require more characters than the default fonts provide 08:22:55 <DiabloD3> You make FOSS look bad. 08:22:59 *** DiabloD3 [~diablo@pool-70-16-75-198.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has left #openttd [] 08:23:04 <norbert79> Wth? :D 08:23:05 <planetmaker> looool :-) 08:23:42 <norbert79> Did he even know who is he addressing? In any case, did he ever red the list of contributors? Eh, never mind, this was just weird... 08:24:11 <planetmaker> I couldn't care less :-) 08:24:15 <norbert79> Besides, I think OpenTTD has the best support anyway, I am happy to see the binaries provided. 08:24:44 <blathijs> norbert79: Btw, I think MIT is GPL-compatible, FWIW 08:24:58 <planetmaker> in a (technical) discussion it shouldn't matter whether someone can commit to the repo or not. But there was not technical argument from his side 08:25:14 <planetmaker> yes, MIT should be compatible with GPL (not vice versa, though) 08:25:33 <norbert79> blathijs: Probably, but in either way if he would like to implement changes he would still need to work on it. He also needs to provide the documentation and sources and case pictures as well, which can at least make anyone start thinking about using anything new. 08:26:08 <blathijs> norbert79: I was just commenting on that single statement, I haven't read the rest of the discussion 08:26:13 <norbert79> blathijs: it's a bit of a work, but worth the effort, besides, I also felt just a problem with his logic. 08:26:29 <blathijs> but it seems DiabloD3 is still a moron, just like when we banned him a few years ago 08:26:45 <planetmaker> nah, a font selection GUI wouldn't hurt. That doesn't require adding them to OpenTTD, though 08:26:49 <norbert79> blathijs: He seems like being a kid to me, he still needs to learn, imho. 08:27:09 <planetmaker> (on the contrary, a font selection GUI would be nice) 08:27:21 <norbert79> planetmaker: Agree, the problem what i see the different font systems used by the systems... Hard to apply it when you have an API at one side and no API or a different one for an another OS. 08:27:47 <norbert79> planetmaker: LibreOffice/OpenOffice solved it somehow, but question comes if it's really necessary to put the effort into. 08:28:13 <Terkhen> there is a (now outdated) font selection GUI patch in the dev forums 08:28:30 <Terkhen> but the creator got unmotivated and I wasn't able to get him to finish it :P 08:28:32 <norbert79> Terkhen: Yes, we alreasdy touched it 08:28:40 <planetmaker> yeah. It misses the OSX side :-P 08:28:41 <Terkhen> RL is always there 08:28:43 <norbert79> Terkhen: Yes, also followed that up :) 08:29:20 <planetmaker> (but missing it on one OS or another is not the argument to skip it, if it's feasible to implement in the same framework) 08:29:31 <norbert79> Terkhen: I touched the topic behalf of my problem back then, because I used to use 8000 Fonts, now limited to 1200, but still that would just cause a mess when in game. 08:29:44 <Terkhen> yes, we talked about that 08:30:01 <Terkhen> IIRC he was inclined to implement font caching in a separate thread 08:30:08 <norbert79> Aye 08:30:16 <Terkhen> but I don't remember if it would still need to cache fonts at every startup or not 08:30:46 <norbert79> Manual method would also work fine, instead of adding font-cache creation at start having just a button 're read fonts' would be also nice, imo 08:30:51 <Terkhen> he was testing with about 200 fonts and it already messed up with performance :P 08:31:08 <planetmaker> :-) 08:31:22 <planetmaker> Well, selecting a font needs not be terribly performant. It's a one-time task 08:31:40 <Terkhen> that suggestion sounds nice, yes... as pm says it is a one time task 08:31:42 <norbert79> planetmaker: Sure, unless you are not a font enthusiastic :D 08:31:51 <Terkhen> feel free to post it in the patch thread :) 08:32:37 <planetmaker> scanning NewGRFs also takes looong. 08:33:16 <norbert79> planetmaker: Windows has this issue, that some Printing drivers use Postscript methods, and for this they don't create a system-wide cache, but re-read all the fonts when pressing "Preferences" before printing. I used to wait 30 minutes (!) for being able to switch from A/4 to A/3 :) 08:33:19 <planetmaker> hm... I wonder whether OpenTTD could cache the info of the scanned NewGRFs and re-scan in a separate thread 08:33:41 <planetmaker> norbert79: sounds like a PITA ;-) 08:34:00 <planetmaker> and scanning fonts could be threaded separately, too 08:34:04 <norbert79> planetmaker: Nah, I would still prefer system-wide font cache, but Windows lacks of it. So does ubuntu by now :( 08:34:24 <planetmaker> norbert79: yes, but that's out of OpenTTD's control 08:34:30 <norbert79> Exactly 08:34:47 <norbert79> but still makes the GUI for font selecting a bit more problematic 08:36:15 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:37:00 <planetmaker> Life is never really easy :-) 08:37:24 <norbert79> <sigh>...Aye... :) 08:42:32 <Terkhen> :P 08:42:45 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-186-030.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 08:46:55 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 08:56:39 <planetmaker> hm... 08:56:40 <planetmaker> dbg: [grf] Unknown StringID 0x000C remapped to STR_EMPTY. Please open a Feature Request if you need it 08:56:50 <planetmaker> can also be caused by a NewGRF bug :-) 08:58:09 <Terkhen> :P 08:59:19 <planetmaker> feature request: "fix bug in my NewGRF" :-P 09:01:01 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:06:30 <norbert79> Fun fun fun :) 09:08:06 <planetmaker> hm... a requirement of 1.5 million engineering supplies per month seems unrealistic ;-) 09:08:24 <planetmaker> also that they can store 18 million units of those 09:08:38 <planetmaker> and I doubt they use them efficiently as they claim 09:10:53 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/industry_prod.png 09:11:45 <Elukka> and they use them efficiently?! 09:12:02 <planetmaker> yeah ;-) That's what they claim 09:13:00 <planetmaker> probably they grab each grain of and and individually weigh, characterize and package it 09:13:14 <planetmaker> s/and and/sand and/ 09:13:21 <Elukka> "Bob? Did you drop that shipment in the pond again?" 09:13:34 <planetmaker> :-D 09:13:39 <planetmaker> what shipment? 09:14:11 <planetmaker> There came a bunch of crazy truck drivers with some garbage... 09:15:21 <MNIM> Heh 09:17:09 <MNIM> I love the description of what they do with excess vehicle supplies in first tier industries in ecs 09:17:16 <MNIM> dump truck races FTW! :P 09:18:34 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 09:19:08 <Elukka> when i played a game with a bunch of friends, two of us were entirely dedicated to designing new stations... meanwhile, one of us built a hugely expensive hovercraft racetrack 09:19:11 <Elukka> it didn't work terribly well 09:19:49 <Elukka> eddi, how's this 09:19:49 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/4_abteilwagen.png 09:20:04 <Elukka> darkened the roof by a notch since 09:22:51 <MNIM> hovercraft racetrack? 09:22:52 <MNIM> lol 09:23:25 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-186-030.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:25:39 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-037-119.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:25:51 <Terkhen> heh 09:32:04 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-72-134.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 09:44:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.189.18] has joined #openttd 09:50:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B685.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:01:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: looks nice 10:26:46 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 10:29:34 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has quit [Quit: Exit stage left...] 10:36:00 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 10:42:08 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has joined #openttd 10:49:25 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-218-153.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:49:54 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-218-153.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 10:51:00 *** APTX_ [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:17:36 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 11:20:08 *** zachanima [~zach@0x52b41806.static.bcbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:26:17 <MNIM> hmmmh. 11:26:24 <MNIM> is it possible to make elevated rail? 11:27:05 <Eddi|zuHause> no 11:27:47 <MNIM> :( 11:30:45 <peter1138> yes, just provide a patch ;) 11:30:50 <peter1138> guess what 11:30:57 <peter1138> i _don't_ have a patch for that 11:31:09 <b_jonas> does any of you have the problem that you try to abort mouse drags with shift instead of escape outside of openttd? 11:31:15 <b_jonas> such as window resizes 11:31:36 <MNIM> ...wait, you can abort mouse drags with shift in ottd? 11:32:04 <b_jonas> MNIM: with some operations at least, and only if you hold down shift as you release the button 11:32:25 <MNIM> oh, it's the cost estimation tool? 11:32:27 <b_jonas> yes 11:32:28 <MNIM> awesome. 11:32:28 *** erik1984 [~erik1984@vhe-490300.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 11:32:35 * MNIM learns something new! 11:33:09 <b_jonas> that's actually inherited from ttd 11:33:33 <planetmaker> technically it doesn't abort it ;-) 11:33:51 <planetmaker> as it still gives you the cost estimate 11:34:19 <planetmaker> but it's a good way to avoid deleting the whole map, if you accidentially dragged too much 11:36:51 <b_jonas> also to measure distances: drag level tool, it shows length of sides, hold shift, release it 11:37:13 <b_jonas> so it has at least three uses: cost estimation, length measurement, aborting errors 11:37:36 <planetmaker> yup 11:37:53 <MNIM> well, I wouldn't call it a problem, anyway 11:38:27 <MNIM> at least in linux, when I press shift while dragging (a selection) it does indeed abort 11:38:50 <norbert79> MNIM: So does it under Windows too 11:39:14 <b_jonas> it depends on what you do. sadly some programs don't abort even if you press escape. 11:42:31 <erik1984> Didn't know about shift either to 'abort' rail placement (btw hi all ;)) 11:43:08 <norbert79> hi erik1984 :) ... Works since TTD :) 11:44:34 *** DiabloD3 [~diablo@pool-70-16-75-198.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #openttd 11:44:47 <DiabloD3> how do I check if my server is externally accessable? 11:45:05 <erik1984> There are more of these simple tricks I only recently became aware of. Like closing all windows with DEL 11:45:45 <DiabloD3> erik1984: del is fucking perfect 11:46:04 <erik1984> DiabloD3: if you tell me the name I could see if it pops up in my list of internet games 11:46:10 <DiabloD3> DiabloD3 11:46:16 <DiabloD3> it pops up, but I dont know if people can connect 11:46:17 <DiabloD3> also 11:46:19 <Ammler> also servers.openttd.org helpfs 11:46:20 *** DiabloD3 is now known as Diablo-D3 11:46:25 <Diablo-D3> silly server stole my - 11:46:45 <Diablo-D3> erik1984: btw, check the ottd wiki for hotkeys 11:47:02 <erik1984> I can see it in my list 11:47:30 <norbert79> erik1984: Seing it in your own list and being able to be seen from Master are two different things. Ports open on your router/network? 11:47:46 <Diablo-D3> erik1984: yes, but can you connect? 11:48:27 <erik1984> Can't try because there is a newgrf mismatch 11:48:37 <Diablo-D3> er, which grf? 11:48:56 <Diablo-D3> it should say in the grf window 11:49:19 <Diablo-D3> because everything Im using is available on bananas 11:49:33 <erik1984> A lot of them, I'll try to get the missing content 11:49:47 <Diablo-D3> ahh, if its missing content, thats a one click download 11:50:00 <Diablo-D3> I wonder why openttd doesnt automatically download 11:50:11 <norbert79> ...here we go again... 11:50:23 <erik1984> joining now 11:50:33 <Diablo-D3> norbert79: hey, is there a key to repeat previous command? 11:50:51 <norbert79> Diablo-D3: I thought you are skilled enough to know that :) 11:50:53 <Diablo-D3> or to clone vehicles faster? 11:50:54 <planetmaker> openttd should ask for credit card details. And only upon validation of those henceforth automatically download 11:51:14 <norbert79> planetmaker: Ah, right, and it also accepts VISA Electron, right? 11:51:30 <planetmaker> if money could be successfully transfered, yes ;-) 11:51:40 <planetmaker> argentum non olet ;-) 11:51:51 <norbert79> planetmaker: I had some issues past month with the transfer, an error message came up, but the connection was ok :S... 11:51:58 <erik1984> I'm in the game 11:51:59 <Diablo-D3> so yay erik connected 11:52:02 <norbert79> planetmaker: Oh well, someone will fix the bug 11:52:12 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if I should reimage my VPS 11:52:18 <Diablo-D3> switch to debian so I can run openttd on it 11:52:54 <planetmaker> norbert79: as usual: only after credit card validation :-P 11:53:09 <Terkhen> :) 11:53:15 <norbert79> I was told, that the best servers are runed on clustered Commodore 64 machines, with the 20 Mhz upgrade (Google for it, it exists), and with the 6501 Ethernet port addon. 11:53:28 <planetmaker> :-) 11:53:28 <norbert79> For Openttd at least 11:53:45 <planetmaker> for certain definitions of 'best' that might be true 11:53:56 <planetmaker> maybe with added liquid helium cooling ;-) 11:54:16 <norbert79> Nah, nitrogene is enough, 6501 would freeze under liqid helium 11:54:41 <norbert79> tried... 11:54:44 <planetmaker> :-P 11:55:06 <Diablo-D3> hrm I need to fix my server :< 11:55:14 <norbert79> Also note for myself: Never cool your beer inside liquid helium 11:55:26 <planetmaker> hm... how does production level relate to industry output (for primary)? 11:55:39 <planetmaker> probably action0 properties 11:55:42 <Diablo-D3> norbert79: LOL 11:55:54 <Diablo-D3> note to self: move total bridge below total town 11:56:28 <planetmaker> norbert79: there's nothing wrong with that. But you need to allow some time before you can serve it as ice cream 11:56:45 <norbert79> planetmaker: But how do I take it out? 11:56:50 <Diablo-D3> beer ice cream?! 11:56:55 <planetmaker> long pokey stick? 11:57:01 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: tongs. 11:57:06 <Diablo-D3> and be careful not to drop it 11:57:13 <norbert79> planetmaker: Yeah, might work, if it won't break at ~-270°C :) 11:57:27 <Diablo-D3> alum is easy to shatter at those temps 11:59:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:00:29 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 12:04:51 <Diablo-D3> can I turn autosave off for servers? 12:10:04 *** zachanima [~zach@0x52b41806.static.bcbnet.dk] has joined #openttd 12:13:55 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:8c0d:d6c:8c45:636f] has joined #openttd 12:13:58 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:15:19 <peter1138> yes 12:26:54 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has quit [Quit: Exit stage left...] 12:27:30 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:31:09 <MNIM> You know what would be nice? 12:31:17 <andythenorth> many things 12:31:22 <andythenorth> some unmentionable here 12:31:48 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 12:31:51 <MNIM> a tool to convert massive amounts of classic signals into signal lights, no matter what type 12:43:09 <Eddi|zuHause> why would you do that? 12:44:11 <norbert79> I understand the logic, I just don't understand by converting you mean converting to one type, or converting a classic one way to a modern light one way signal, or to a plain light one? 12:44:12 <peter1138> andythenorth, yes, best not to mention multistop docks 12:44:33 <peter1138> semaphores to lights 12:44:41 <andythenorth> ok 12:44:48 * andythenorth doesn't mention multistop docks 12:44:54 <peter1138> good idea 12:45:00 <peter1138> mentioning multistop docks would be pointless 12:45:22 <planetmaker> yeah. It would remind people only about road types. Which shouldn't be mentioned either 12:45:31 <andythenorth> meh 12:45:34 <andythenorth> roadtypes :P 12:45:40 <Diablo-D3> roadtypes? 12:45:51 <planetmaker> see. 'shouldn't be mentioned' ;-) 12:46:10 <Diablo-D3> you mean like trucks vs streetcars? 12:46:37 <planetmaker> like e-rail vs. maglev 12:47:17 <Diablo-D3> that wouldnt make sense for road 12:47:32 <Diablo-D3> since management of roads is by law and the local government 12:47:54 <Diablo-D3> theres no analog in ottd 12:48:00 <andythenorth> ok 12:48:02 <andythenorth> good :) 12:48:11 <planetmaker> we shouldn't have mentioned it anyway 12:48:11 <andythenorth> we can stop discussing it then 12:48:20 <Diablo-D3> roads have also basically not changed since the invention of asphalt 12:48:42 <norbert79> ...I guess some experts in this area would have let loose a slight of a scream here... 12:48:52 <Diablo-D3> lol probably 12:49:04 <Diablo-D3> ottd has enough problems with the train fanatics 12:49:07 <Diablo-D3> :D 12:49:08 <norbert79> I was referring to your statement Diablo, don't be so happy about it 12:49:24 <Diablo-D3> norbert79: Im not ignorant of t he history of road 12:49:51 <Diablo-D3> but ottd has no way of really showing stuff 12:50:05 <Diablo-D3> like, we dont pay for maint of roads, just construction 12:50:15 <norbert79> OTTD is no Road-Train-Simulator in any way, it's a Tycoon game 12:50:26 <Diablo-D3> yeah exactly 12:50:33 <norbert79> So? 12:50:38 <norbert79> What's your point then? 12:50:40 <Diablo-D3> it should be fun, challenging, and interesting 12:50:47 <Diablo-D3> multiple road types for the sake of having them makes no sense 12:51:01 <Diablo-D3> roads vs streetcars DOES make sense 12:51:10 <andythenorth> it's ok 12:51:10 <Diablo-D3> but only grfs have those 12:51:15 <andythenorth> don't worry 12:51:17 <andythenorth> all is well 12:51:21 <norbert79> :)) 12:51:37 <Diablo-D3> I think I like my ottd setup though 12:51:44 <norbert79> Just one technical contra against your idea: Did you ever considered how much network traffic would this cause? 12:52:13 <Diablo-D3> is network traffic still a concern? its not like people play over dialup anymore 12:52:13 <planetmaker> norbert79: doesn't matter. The website survived a slashdot ;-) 12:53:05 <norbert79> Diablo-D3: Well, I would still consider running OpenTTD, despite I don't own a Cisco Gigabit Router... Street cars, if it would affect running trucks would be an overkill on the network traffic... 12:53:31 * andythenorth has entered a mad world 12:53:36 <Diablo-D3> norbert79: Im not sure I understand 12:53:40 <Diablo-D3> they already exist in grfs 12:53:45 <Diablo-D3> I have them in my game right now 12:53:46 <norbert79> Diablo-D3: Exactly, you don't 12:53:57 <Diablo-D3> itdoesnt seem to be effecting anything 13:01:51 <norbert79> Diablo-D3: Just for not getting others confused: in the EU we call streetcars "tram" or "trams", 13:02:03 <norbert79> Just a hint not getting us confused 13:03:34 <PeanutHorst> what about streetcars named desire? 13:03:35 <Diablo-D3> norbert79: ottd calls them streetcars 13:03:37 <PeanutHorst> what do you call them? 13:05:29 <planetmaker> ottd calls them many things... and ottd has a BE (default) and AE version 13:05:40 <lugo> i like 'Bimmelbahn' 13:05:46 <planetmaker> ^ like that 13:06:15 <planetmaker> and default openttd calls them trams, Diablo-D3 13:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think "Bimmelbahn" is primarily understood as "tram" 13:06:32 <planetmaker> you just have them called streetcars as OpenTTD detects that your localization is US 13:06:47 <erik1984> Nice discussions going on here :P 13:06:52 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: yay 13:06:59 <erik1984> Anyhow have fun people I'm off 13:07:02 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Aye :) 13:07:07 *** erik1984 [~erik1984@vhe-490300.sshn.net] has left #openttd [] 13:07:28 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: No rails needed for "Bimmelbahn", well, not for all :) 13:07:32 <planetmaker> "Milchkannen-Express" is rather the same as "Bimmelbahn" 13:07:52 <Eddi|zuHause> never heard that... 13:07:53 <norbert79> "Bimmelbahn" on the other hand is shorter :) 13:08:22 <norbert79> Yet the British "Tram" is still the shortest. 13:08:25 <Eddi|zuHause> "Bimmelbahn" means "small branch railway" to me... 13:08:50 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Lik 13:08:52 <norbert79> eeeh 13:08:58 <norbert79> Like this one: http://www.bernds-welt.de/fotos/fuerte/stella/bimmelbahn01dsl.jpg 13:09:06 <planetmaker> no, not really 13:09:27 <planetmaker> though it could count as one. It usually means a real railway 13:10:11 <norbert79> Well, according to the German Wiki planetmaker seems to be closer, http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bimmelbahn 13:10:34 <norbert79> yet in my opinion it's rather how one interprets it 13:10:49 <norbert79> but that comes from cultural differences 13:16:31 *** loopcoop [~loopcoop@a-84-21.sc.andrews.edu] has joined #openttd 13:26:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r22932 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#4766]: disable the white border on window creation for several windows (based on patch by monoid) 13:28:13 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:31:04 *** loopcoop [~loopcoop@a-84-21.sc.andrews.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:39:24 <Belugas> hello 13:39:35 <norbert79> Afternoon Belugas 13:39:51 <norbert79> Oops, morning for you :) 13:40:15 <Belugas> quite 13:40:16 <Belugas> sadly... 13:40:23 <Belugas> heelo to you too, norbert79 13:40:38 <Belugas> grr.. i need COFEEEEEEEEEEE 13:42:25 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-218-153.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:43:29 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-247-104.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 13:46:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:48:07 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 13:49:49 <Diablo-D3> hrm 13:50:08 <Diablo-D3> I wonder what would happen if ottd was ran with huge gigantic maps 13:50:36 <Diablo-D3> and had time passage slower 13:52:19 <Elukka> i believe there's patches for both 13:52:20 <lugo> like with bigger maps and daylength patch? 13:52:40 <Elukka> if you wanna try without compiling get chill's pack from the dev forum 13:52:42 <Elukka> i think it has both 13:52:55 <Elukka> maps go up to something ridiculous like 32 000 x 32 000 13:55:02 <Hirundo> that'd OOM any normal computer 13:55:40 <Diablo-D3> define normal 13:55:44 <Diablo-D3> I have 8gb 13:55:57 <Hirundo> just the map would require 9GB 13:55:59 <planetmaker> @calc 32000*32000*9 13:55:59 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 9216000000 13:56:06 <planetmaker> @calc 32000*32000*9 / 1024**3 13:56:06 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 8.58306884766 13:56:07 <Diablo-D3> fffffffffffff 13:56:28 <Elukka> i guess openttd just isn't made for anything that big 13:56:35 <Hirundo> Not to mention that running 4 million tile loop calls is not easily done in 30ms 13:56:43 <Pinkbeast> But (while I in no way disagree with the decision to make the map larger than you could possibly want) you wouldn't possibly want a map that big 13:57:04 <planetmaker> on big enough maps, time passage will be naturally slow ;-) 13:57:15 <norbert79> 1024x1024 is already way too much map to fill, and it needs lot of time to be built full 13:57:42 <norbert79> World of OpenTTD... WoO 13:57:44 <norbert79> :D 13:58:53 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 13:58:54 <Hirundo> all on 1 cpu core... 13:59:20 <norbert79> Well, it would remind everyone back on older 8 bit times :) 13:59:35 <norbert79> where a loding of one application took between 5-30 minutes 14:02:03 <planetmaker> nah, never took that long 14:02:12 <planetmaker> application load times didn't really change 14:02:23 <norbert79> planetmaker: who had an 1541 or 1541-II, those couldn't comply 14:02:40 * planetmaker started on 10MHz 286 14:02:44 <Diablo-D3> hrm 14:02:46 <norbert79> planetmaker: But what about those who had only a 1351? :) 300baud/sec for the rules :D 14:02:49 <Diablo-D3> how do I disable specific AIs? 14:02:58 <planetmaker> norbert79: no internet there 14:03:03 <norbert79> planetmaker: Aw, you have missed a lot 14:03:17 <Diablo-D3> because apparently AIs cant do grfs. 14:03:17 <planetmaker> it would have been ruining my parents 14:03:52 <norbert79> planetmaker: Have started with Commodore +4... Internet? I used to connect first time to the internet from home around 2000, 56kbit Modem, just for a few hours long 14:03:57 <planetmaker> yeah... cross-species procreation hardly works 14:03:58 <norbert79> :) 14:04:19 <norbert79> XD 14:04:32 <planetmaker> norbert79: I had a 33kbit modem first... 14:04:43 <planetmaker> in ... 1997 or so 14:05:05 <norbert79> well, I started with Commodore +4, then 486-Dx40 4MB RAm, no soundcard or CD-ROM back in 1996 14:05:18 <norbert79> Commodore +4 in 1987 14:05:22 <norbert79> imported from Austria 14:05:40 <planetmaker> he :-) 14:05:40 * Hirundo joins #computer-nostalgia 14:05:43 <norbert79> My grandfather has bought it for me 14:05:45 <Elukka> out of curiosity... 14:05:56 <Elukka> how impossible is the idea that some day openttd will be multithreaded? 14:06:00 <Elukka> unless it already is, i dunno 14:06:19 <planetmaker> welcome, Hirundo ;-) 14:06:39 <Hirundo> it already is in some parts; world generation, saving, newgrf scanning AFAIK 14:06:53 <planetmaker> yeah 14:07:21 <planetmaker> Elukka: as impossible as re-writing the internals completely 14:07:32 <Pinkbeast> Elukka> I am no expert but I think the prospects of doing so for the normal work of moving vehicles is impossibly remote. Bits of the GUI, _maybe_. 14:07:52 <Hirundo> Problem is that all actions must execute in the same order across multiple clients 14:07:59 <Elukka> aw 14:08:16 <planetmaker> _or_ the architecture wrt client / server needs complete re-design 14:08:21 <norbert79> Elukka: Workaround would be using clusters and running OpenTTD on them :)) 14:08:25 <Elukka> heh 14:08:41 <planetmaker> yeah... the mobile-phone-pocket cluster :-P 14:08:46 <norbert79> lol 14:09:00 * Diablo-D3 started with a 6mhz 8088 with 512kb of memory AFTER upgrade 14:09:48 <Elukka> and now there's 1.2 ghz dual core phones 14:09:57 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: mhz myth 14:10:02 <Diablo-D3> not all mhz are created equal 14:10:03 <Pinkbeast> Or that ordering of actions could be relaxed. Every vehicle works out where it is after a tick simultaneously, but everything only uses the state at the start of the tick. Maybe? # yes this would also be _very hard_ 14:10:11 <Elukka> yeah i know, a lot of it is about cpu architecture 14:10:21 <Diablo-D3> 0.5ghz G4s were pretty goddamned fast when all we had was 1.5ghz P3s 14:10:23 <Pinkbeast> Diablo> 512K? Tee hee. 14:10:35 <Diablo-D3> Pinkbeast: AFTER upgrade 14:10:39 <Hirundo> Pinkbeast: So you'd need to backup the entire game state at the start of each tick? 14:10:41 <Elukka> a 2.4 ghz i5 is lightyears beyond a 3 ghz p4 14:10:45 <Diablo-D3> I think it was like 128 to start with 14:10:50 <planetmaker> Pinkbeast: and how would you avoid two vehicles then occupying the same spot? 14:10:57 <Hirundo> And how about two trains that decide to enter the same signal block? 14:10:59 <Elukka> even without considering the extra cores 14:11:03 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: yeah, but it also has 2 int alus and 4 float alus per core 14:11:18 <Elukka> point is, it's still pretty amazing :P 14:11:27 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: which makes it twice as powerful as a P4 flat out 14:11:40 <V453000> planetmaker: new era of openttd - without signals? 14:11:41 <Diablo-D3> plus they finally pulled their head out of their ass and went back to using the P6 family 14:12:00 <planetmaker> and road vehicles behaving like ships. cool! 14:12:04 <planetmaker> easy peasy building 14:12:05 <norbert79> lol 14:12:07 <Diablo-D3> the core 1 was a pentium 3++ (which survived through the pentium-m family) 14:12:11 <Elukka> my phone (which was cheap, none of that 600 eur iphone bull) loads websites and runs flash content considerably smoother than my dad's computer 14:12:13 <Pinkbeast> Hirundo> Trains already have to notice in advance they're going to stop at a signal. 14:12:21 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: well, look at webkit 14:12:22 <norbert79> planetmaker: Well, noone really considered cars/trucks could leave the roads... :) 14:12:28 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: its faster than netscape 4 on a 486. 14:12:33 <V453000> :d 14:12:42 <Diablo-D3> at least when you're not throwing in dumb shit like bloated js shit 14:13:02 <planetmaker> norbert79: I rather meant it like "passing through eachother all the time" 14:13:18 <Diablo-D3> hrm, you know what? 14:13:23 <Diablo-D3> why isnt there offroad vehicles in ottd 14:13:31 <Diablo-D3> that could be lol 14:13:33 <Hirundo> Pinkbeast: There is IIRC *some* braking before a red signal, but the final stop/pass check is only done once 14:13:50 <Diablo-D3> oh hey 14:13:52 <Diablo-D3> that reminds me 14:14:00 <Diablo-D3> you know how in mp people use trains to kill enemy vehicles? 14:14:07 <Pinkbeast> Hirundo> Right, but that doesn't prevent simultaneity. 14:14:13 <Elukka> what if road vehicles pathed freely across the landscape and created road sprites whereever they go :P 14:14:23 <Diablo-D3> why dont vehicles stop infront of a train track crossing? 14:14:35 <Elukka> they do 14:14:52 <Diablo-D3> no they dont, otherwise people wouldnt get banned for intentionally doing it 14:14:52 <Elukka> it's when the car is already on the tracks and a train comes through that they crash 14:14:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:15:09 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: they shouldnt be able to get onto the tracks 14:15:15 <Elukka> i really wish level crossings would be usable 14:15:17 <Diablo-D3> the graphics for the crossing are already down 14:15:18 <Pinkbeast> Diablo> The level crossing might not know the train is coming that way until it's 1 tile away at 80mph; the vehicle might be moving at 3mph. 14:15:29 <Diablo-D3> Pinkbeast: yeah theres that too 14:15:38 <Diablo-D3> which is kind of a nasty bug 14:15:50 <Diablo-D3> I'd like it if crossings would go down long before the train comes like irl 14:15:54 <Elukka> there's certainly code in the game that makes a road vehicle stop at a level crossing, it's just not enough 14:16:01 <V453000> "like irl" ftw 14:16:03 <Pinkbeast> In reality the level crossing has to be tied into the signal network, but at OTTD scales that might require level crossings to be in a long straight track section. 14:16:05 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: yeah but it only saves MY veh 14:16:10 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has joined #openttd 14:16:12 <Pinkbeast> A _very_ long track section. 14:16:27 <Diablo-D3> cant ottd internally spawn stuff into the signal network? 14:16:30 <norbert79> V453000: IRL. Hmm. endless tiles in games, precise buildings, no edgy movement, etc etc.. Wow, how much for coding ) 14:16:32 <norbert79> :) 14:16:34 <Pinkbeast> So the track owner has to be prevented from building junctions anywhere near the level crossing. 14:16:44 <Diablo-D3> actually 14:16:48 <Diablo-D3> why not just REQUIRE building crossings 14:16:52 <V453000> norbert79: I just smile and think my own :P 14:16:53 <Pinkbeast> Now road players can grief rail players by building level crossings every 10 tiles on their network. Ooops. 14:16:55 <Diablo-D3> as in, its not automated 14:17:01 <norbert79> V453000: I was sarcastic too :) 14:17:06 <V453000> I noticed :p 14:17:18 <Diablo-D3> and make the road guys build the crossings or something 14:17:44 <V453000> Diablo-D3: just find a server with proper etiquette and admin 14:17:51 <Diablo-D3> V453000: oh sure but 14:17:57 <Diablo-D3> no server has my settings :< 14:18:09 <norbert79> I thought you are a pro on opening Servers 14:18:13 <V453000> if the settings are good, suggest them to someone? 14:18:18 <norbert79> Now I am shocked 14:18:59 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:19:12 <Pinkbeast> Diablo> Consider about the worst case with existing grfs; an 80mph UKRS2 Spinner approaching a crossing which a 3mph steam bus wants to use. 14:19:14 <V453000> but wait, you play multiplayer and have problems with people. At the same time, no server has "your" settings. What is the problem to change a server then? 14:19:34 <Elukka> that's a really fringe case though, pinkbeast 14:19:46 <Elukka> even if a solution wouldn't work in every conceivable situation, it'd be better if it worked in most 14:19:51 <Pinkbeast> If the steam bus is to travel 1 tile, the Spinner needs to reserve the level crossing 80/3 =~ _27 tiles_ away. 14:19:54 <norbert79> Pinkbeast: and include an UFO landing just on the bus 14:20:17 <Pinkbeast> Elukka> A 300mph maglev and a 15 mph HEQS crawler 4 tiles long? 14:20:26 <norbert79> lol 14:20:31 <Elukka> you don't build level crossings on maglev lines :P 14:20:38 <Pinkbeast> Elukka> Well, right now you can. 14:20:40 <norbert79> Elukka: Unless you are very brave :) 14:20:50 <Diablo-D3> Pinkbeast: do me a favor and use Diablo-D3: so my client highlights it 14:20:54 <Elukka> i think it'd be sufficient if level crossings were safe in sensible cases 14:21:02 <Elukka> nobody's going to drive a car over a TGV line 14:21:04 <Diablo-D3> Pinkbeast: all you have to do is type dia and press tab 14:21:18 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: yeah, why cant servers disable crossings altogether? 14:21:25 <Pinkbeast> Yes, because all the world uses the same IRC client as you. 14:21:26 <norbert79> <facepalm> 14:21:27 <Diablo-D3> that would fix a LOT of bullshit 14:21:49 <Elukka> you can keep the ability to build them on maglev lines, just don't blame the game when crashes happen :P 14:22:00 <Diablo-D3> Pinkbeast: mirc, bitchx, irssi, ircii, mozilla chat thingy, xchat, and several others all support tab complete nicks. 14:22:05 <V453000> this conversation leads nowhere, Diablo-D3 just should start playing with "normal" people ... all that solves it 14:22:16 <Diablo-D3> V453000: you mean not play on public servers. 14:22:21 <Pinkbeast> Elukka> Even in more sensible cases, the exclusion zone is going to be quite wide, like 3 or 4 tiles. 14:22:27 <Diablo-D3> even on luuksland people are fucking dicks frequently 14:22:28 <V453000> not all public servers are full of retards 14:22:37 <V453000> yes, luukland is retarded by design 14:22:39 <Elukka> sure, but least it's possible to build it 14:22:48 <Pinkbeast> Elukka> But it doesn't prevent griefing. 14:22:57 <Elukka> true 14:22:57 <Diablo-D3> griefing has largely ruined ottd for me 14:23:05 <Elukka> openttd has lots of exciting griefing options 14:23:12 <Elukka> i never play it with anyone except a few friends 14:23:14 <Diablo-D3> like, REBUILD ROADS 14:23:16 <Diablo-D3> DURFA HURFA HURF 14:23:26 <Diablo-D3> LOOK AT ME, IM FUCKING BUSSES 14:23:28 <norbert79> Diablo-D3: I don't about Pinkbeast, but your behaviour catched my eyes, and think, it might be annoying and arrogatn. And I think I am not alone with that; I go even further, I think you are already on Pinkbeast's ignore list. 14:23:31 <V453000> well, if you want a server with nice people, #openttdcoop.stable on 1.1.3RC1 is for you 14:23:33 <Pinkbeast> Either the rail owner _can_ build a junction in the exclusion zone and break it, or they can't and you can grief people by building regularly spaced crossings on their railway. 14:24:00 <Diablo-D3> V453000: hrm. 14:24:04 <Pinkbeast> norbert> You'd be wrong, although I don't really care if someone reads so slowly they need lines of IRC highlighted for them when the channel's this quiet. 14:24:14 <Diablo-D3> V453000: btw, did you look at how I'd want a perfect server? 14:24:21 <V453000> no and I cant say I care 14:24:23 <Elukka> i'm not really thinking of it from a griefing standpoint 14:24:27 <norbert79> Pinkbeast: I envy your patience... 14:24:38 <Diablo-D3> V453000: well Im just saying, theres stuff I'd like to see and apparently no one else does 14:24:55 <Pinkbeast> Elukka> Well, from a "making them work at all" perspective a level crossing could close any time there's a PBS reservation through it, and then you can build working ones. But doesn't that happen already?? 14:25:14 <Elukka> hmm... does it? 14:25:21 <Elukka> i don't think i've used level crossings in the PBS era :D 14:25:23 <Pinkbeast> Might be a patch thing. 14:25:49 <Diablo-D3> V453000: ecs + av8 + fish + heqs + egrvts + industrial stations, city stations, rural stations, total town + total brudge, ukrs2 and 2+, and nars 14:26:01 <V453000> ecs = retarded 14:26:08 <planetmaker> no, that works perfectly well, Pinkbeast 14:26:11 <Diablo-D3> and bigger train depots, and long vehicles v4, and luukland server just for citybuilder mode 14:26:22 <V453000> Diablo-D3: then make your own server 14:26:26 <Diablo-D3> V453000: well its either ecs or firs 14:26:34 <V453000> firs at least makes sense 14:26:35 <Pinkbeast> Elukka> There we go - you can build working ones with PBS signals if people cooperate, and if they don't griefing's inevitable. 14:26:38 <norbert79> V453000: Just out of curiosity: What's the problem with ECS? 14:26:45 <V453000> realism 14:26:46 <Diablo-D3> I just want something to make industries more complex 14:26:55 <Diablo-D3> V453000: okay, what does firs do that ecs doesnt? 14:26:55 <V453000> norbert79: it has no system what so ever (unlike firs) 14:27:05 <Pinkbeast> You _could_ fix it by letting vehicles interpenetrate - the real problem here is that a level crossing is effectively a kilometre wide. 14:27:06 <Diablo-D3> no system? in what way? 14:27:11 <V453000> look at firs 14:27:23 <V453000> there are a few spheres of cargoes with a certain purpose 14:27:25 <Diablo-D3> I can click industry layout in ecs, and the trees are HUGE 14:27:35 <V453000> some create goods, some improve other industries,.. 14:27:41 <Pinkbeast> If the level crossing's closed, a vehicle has to stop exactly halfway across, but never gets crushed. 14:27:41 <V453000> but ecs has just a random mess of cargoes 14:28:05 *** loopcoop [~loopcoop@a-84-21.sc.andrews.edu] has joined #openttd 14:28:07 <Pinkbeast> FIRS supplies (which I like) are a bit of a contentious issue 14:28:16 <andythenorth> I have never played an ECS game, but I read the docs. I don't think it's bad. Lots of people like it. 14:28:30 <Yexo> <Diablo-D3> Elukka: yeah, why cant servers disable crossings altogether? <- servers can do that via means of a newgrf 14:28:30 <norbert79> andythenorth: No wonder, since the variety of goods 14:28:33 <V453000> unplayable andy 14:28:56 <Pinkbeast> Well, no-one's being made to use _every_ ECS vector 14:29:09 <V453000> and getting a farm produce 7k fruit in summer, 0 in winter is also awesome ........ 14:29:24 <V453000> each industry with easily reachable high productions 14:29:44 <V453000> in the end, the playstyle you need to use for this is much simplier than "normal" 14:29:49 <Elukka> i prefer FIRS but ECS is certainly playable 14:29:54 <Pinkbeast> farms> That would be lovely if _all the rest_ of OTTD had seasonal operation in mind in any way whatsoever, as it is... 14:29:55 <norbert79> V453000: But you said IRL is not needed in OpenTTD yet you prefer such NewGRF's ;-) Just bugging 14:30:02 <V453000> wa? 14:30:14 <V453000> I hate realistic ECS ... how is that related 14:30:28 <norbert79> FIRS shows more relation to real life, while ECS doesn't that much 14:30:37 <Diablo-D3> real life isnt always good 14:31:04 <norbert79> Diablo-D3: That sounds a bit like an oximoron from your 'mouth' 14:31:12 <norbert79> (seeing past logs) 14:31:21 <Pinkbeast> Elukka> Oh, I've got it! If you're using a newgrf with track speeds, the level crossing could calculate the minimum safe RV speed and prohibit ones moving slower! 14:31:53 <Diablo-D3> norbert79: dude, trolling in #openttd isnt a good thing. 14:31:54 <norbert79> Pinkbeast: Sounds nice, might be useful in the main code too, if it works well 14:32:09 <V453000> I feel like vice versa, because FIRS defines some cargo groups and each of the groups works somehow. That it fits in how reality works is just another point. But ECS has no such gameplay-system what so ever, so I consider ECS much more oriented to real life, maybe it does not fit as much as FIRS, but it has no real "focus" I can see. 14:32:10 <Pinkbeast> norbert> Mmm, but absent track speeds it doesn't work. 14:32:34 <norbert79> Pinkbeast: And what about short tracks, where the tracks do not grow larger than 4-5 tiles 14:32:45 <norbert79> Pinkbeast: it would possibly stop all incoming traffic 14:33:02 <Diablo-D3> V453000: well wait, I dont understand 14:33:08 <Yexo> V453000: in ECS the "focus" would be the different vectors 14:33:09 <planetmaker> Pinkbeast: what about a vehicle going 80km/h (may cross) - but then being forced to stop due to jam? Or break-down? 14:33:19 <norbert79> V453000: Got you 14:33:24 <Pinkbeast> Well, yeah. But I see "crossings can block traffic" as an improvement on "crossings can kill vehicles" 14:33:29 <Diablo-D3> V453000: you have, say, an iron ore mine. you take the ore to an iron smelting plant, then its turned into metal, and then you have another industry that takes metal 14:33:34 <norbert79> Pinkbeast: True 14:33:38 <V453000> Yexo: yes, but in the end when you put the vectors together, it is just a massive mess 14:33:50 <Pinkbeast> planetmaker> If a vehicle breaks down on a crossing, it may get smooshed, That's fine, it _happens_. The lookahead for jams, damn, you've got me there. 14:33:57 <Yexo> too many vectors creates a mess indeed :) 14:34:02 <Pinkbeast> But to be fair RV route selection could use more lookahead anyway. 14:34:02 <Diablo-D3> V453000: and you have oil, taken to an oil refinery, produces petrol and chemicals, petrol gets delivered to something, chemicals get delivered to something else 14:34:09 <Yexo> but I never played for long with ECS vectors 14:34:25 <V453000> me neither - ended up unplayable :) 14:34:28 <Yexo> the graphics are really nice, but imo they don't fit the ttd nor the opengfx style 14:34:28 <V453000> every single time 14:34:33 <V453000> yes, graphics are awesome 14:34:50 <V453000> they dont really fit, but they make their own style which is nice :) 14:35:01 <norbert79> Yexo: Yes, also found a bit distrubing seing some graphics out of context 14:35:30 <Pinkbeast> The downside is that now I can grief RV users by building high-speed track on their roads and I don't even have to build any trains to smoosh their vehicles. 14:38:34 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A19E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:37 <Diablo-D3> V453000: so what can firs actually do for me? 14:39:47 <andythenorth> it makes tea 14:39:52 <andythenorth> and paints exterior walls 14:40:12 <andythenorth> it is green on thursdays, but blue before 8pm 14:40:29 <V453000> yes lol :d 14:40:29 <Pinkbeast> And you can make tiny OTTD people happy by supplying them with moist delicious beer 14:40:29 <planetmaker> to me that blue looked rather pink 14:40:30 <andythenorth> I don't much like it :P 14:40:43 <Diablo-D3> because ECS isnt meant to be that you do EVERY SINGLE VECTOR FULLY 14:41:00 <Diablo-D3> its meant that you focus on one, and other players focus on others, and you dont directly compete on resources 14:41:28 <Eddi|zuHause> who forbids you from competing? 14:41:44 <Yexo> Diablo-D3: that's just your interpretation and certainly not the original intent 14:41:55 <Yexo> since ECS has been created before OpenTTD multiplayer was stable, so it was created for singleplayer games 14:41:57 <Diablo-D3> Yexo: thats how Ive seen it played 14:42:04 <Diablo-D3> it tends to balance 14:42:09 <George> V453000: easily reachable high productions in the end, the playstyle you need to use for this is much simplier than "normal" - looks like you did not play ECS for years ;) 14:42:12 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: no one, competing is legit 14:42:26 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: most servers dont like it when you steal from secondary industries you're not also feeding though 14:42:33 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: sorta like normal openttd 14:42:45 <Diablo-D3> ECS has three and I think a four layer deep chain 14:42:53 <peter1138> ah, the crazy mindset that believes they _own_ the goods 14:43:04 <Diablo-D3> peter1138: yeah, which gets retarded 14:43:13 <Diablo-D3> I dont "play to win" 14:43:18 <Diablo-D3> I find ottd relaxing 14:43:20 <Pinkbeast> I think I'd be happier with competing if it worked in some better way than "the two best stations get everything" 14:43:45 <Diablo-D3> but you have people who are just dicks and rush through everything and make ugly networks and do dumb shit 14:43:47 <Pinkbeast> Even if that means a million tons of coal piling up at an RV station served by two asthmatic horses and wait for the rating to drop. 14:43:49 <Diablo-D3> and then "win" 14:44:29 <planetmaker> damn you Pinkbeast! I nearly spillt my drink! 14:44:39 <Diablo-D3> hell, sometimes I play entire games without even using trains. 14:45:23 <Diablo-D3> http://www.george.zernebok.net/newgrf/newcargos/img/cargovectors19.png 14:45:34 <Diablo-D3> V453000: so you dont like ecs because its ^ that complex? 14:46:05 <V453000> no, I dont like ecs because it is chaos and has weird features like farms producing 7k in summer, 0 in winter 14:46:12 <V453000> etc 14:46:22 <Diablo-D3> you cant turn that off 14:46:59 <V453000> you can turn off many things like stockpiling afaik 14:47:04 <V453000> but I dont think this farm effect 14:47:23 <Diablo-D3> well I might be wrong, but I swear I saw one that effects seasonal stuff with farms 14:47:43 <V453000> still. I have seen way too many people play ecs and after seeing the effects it had on their playstyle, I have my own opinion I am not going to change .. needless to argue. 14:48:00 * Diablo-D3 shrugs 14:48:09 <Diablo-D3> firs style is identical to normal openttd style? 14:48:20 <Pinkbeast> I would suggest a) regard all stations owned by one player as one for the purpose of determining the total cargo allotment b) allot at least _some_ cargo to all stations (but less to lower rankings) and c) use the amount of waiting cargo to temporarily reduce the ranking 14:48:41 <planetmaker> http://www.george.zernebok.net/newgrf/newcargos/img/cargovectors19.png <-- apropos, George, is there visible which cargo is defined in which vector? 14:49:06 <George> Yes. ID is written in the vector 14:49:11 <Yexo> Pinkbeast: waiting cargo on a station already reduces the station rating 14:49:13 <Pinkbeast> I know bad service reduces the rating in the long run anyway. 14:49:22 <George> In the other vectors arrows have only names 14:49:24 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 14:49:32 <Diablo-D3> btw, you know what would improve things? 14:49:44 <George> BTW, http://www.george.zernebok.net/newgrf/newcargos/img/cargovectors19b.png is the last 14:49:44 <Diablo-D3> cargo not waiting at the station, but at the industry 14:50:07 *** Adambean [AdamR@88.97.144.82] has joined #openttd 14:50:10 <Diablo-D3> George: link here needs updated http://wiki.openttd.org/ECS_Vectors 14:50:31 <planetmaker> ah, so only name + ID means 'defined here' 14:50:56 <Pinkbeast> But right now it takes the game forever to notice those asthmatic horses aren't taking the coal away. The rating needs to change slowly for gameplay, but where the coal actually goes should react on the fly to waiting cargo piles. 14:51:11 <Diablo-D3> does Pinkbeast have me on ignore? 14:51:42 <Yexo> Pinkbeast: the only point of the rating is for determining how cargo is distributed 14:51:49 <Pinkbeast> Oh, yes, totally. Wait, how did I know you were asking? :-) 14:51:55 <Yexo> if you propose another method for that, why not remove station rating completely? 14:51:55 <Diablo-D3> [10:49:44] <Diablo-D3> cargo not waiting at the station, but at the industry 14:52:04 <Pinkbeast> Yexo> Towns? 14:52:06 <Diablo-D3> I honestly wouldnt mind seeing this 14:52:16 <Yexo> Pinkbeast: station rating has no influence on towns at all 14:52:22 <Yexo> town rating is a completely separate mechanic 14:52:22 <planetmaker> what is an 'indirect cargo', George? 14:52:45 <Pinkbeast> Yexo> Goodness me, so it does 14:53:39 <Pinkbeast> OK, but I still think there's a need for a "long term performance" component and an "immediate situation" component. 14:53:52 <Pinkbeast> And the first of those is pretty much what rating is now. 14:54:14 <Pinkbeast> So rating would be "old rating" minus "n% for each m cargo waiting". 14:54:22 <George> Diablo-D3: That is the wrong link. This is correct one http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/ECS_Vectors 14:54:25 <Yexo> and "immediate situation" would only be the amount of cargo waiting? 14:54:42 <Pinkbeast> Depends if we can think of something else useful. 14:54:43 <George> planetmaker: Yes Name + ID 14:55:12 <Pinkbeast> For example, stations with no cargo waiting might be preferred if they have a vehicle loading. 14:55:51 <Pinkbeast> But I still think the "old rating" component should be reported to the player (because they get a separate report of the waiting cargo anyway) 14:56:49 <Pinkbeast> I think the important thing is sending _some_ cargo to every station with a >0 rating and not allowing multiple stations for the same company to double-dip, though. 14:57:59 <George> <@planetmaker> what is an 'indirect cargo', George? - the cargo, that is not processed into production. For example Coal + Ore = Steel (Direct cargo). Vehicels affect Coal mine production, but it is not transformed into cargo. If you have 100000t coal body, you would not get more coal regardless amount of vehicles delivered. Vehicles is indirect cargo (same as fertiliser) 14:58:32 <norbert79> what about randomized methods? Some stations would use a method of using reliable trasnporting companies, while other would use the method of "first at the station gets more" 14:58:55 <George> Glass and dyes are direct cargoes 14:59:09 <norbert79> George: Cars use glass too :) 14:59:24 <George> They are transformed into cargo 14:59:36 <Pinkbeast> norbert> This is not a bad idea, but it's a separate idea. I'm just trying to address the "people get annoyed by competing for cargo not least because it doesn't work well" thing. 14:59:51 <Pinkbeast> Well, actually, I'm blathering about it on #openttd and not writing any code, alas. 14:59:55 <George> I mean glass allows you to produce MORE vehicles 15:00:37 <norbert79> George: I have never seen any firms making double cars, just because they hit jackpot on glass-lottery, while they lack on steel :) 15:01:18 <George> Correct. In case no steel you get no cars 15:01:56 <George> but in case 100t steel you get 10 cars, and in case 100t steel and 10t glass you get 11 cars 15:01:58 <Yexo> Pinkbeast: you don't have to start writing code. Just thinking of a good formula on how to distribute the goods would go a long way already 15:02:30 <norbert79> George: This is where ECS is not good at. Even with 100t steel and 10t of glass you should be able producing only 10 cars 15:02:47 <George> Why I should? 15:02:58 <norbert79> George: I go even further. No goods shall be produced, if not all ingridients are present. 15:03:08 <andythenorth> norbert79: that suck 15:03:09 <andythenorth> s 15:03:22 <Yexo> norbert79: I disagree, it needs far too much micromanaging to get that correct 15:03:24 <andythenorth> it's crappy gameplay 15:03:36 <norbert79> andythenorth: Well, still, I would be happy to play it that way. You could still broing glass to the factory, but for pricy cars get all the things at one place... 15:03:52 <andythenorth> it's boring 15:03:57 <George> norbert79: Not correct. ECS assumes, that some small amounts of ingredients the industry gets itself (from nowhere) 15:04:22 <George> As you can see, secondory industries have production even if you do not deliver cargo 15:04:25 <andythenorth> norbert79: it's only interesting in PBI where it's also combined with stockpiles + such to make evil gameplay 15:04:26 <norbert79> George: Hmm, this is a problem I see, that was exactly the rewason why in general buying from other companies the money goes nowhere. 15:04:42 <Pinkbeast> Yexo> Well, I would distribute the cargo directly proportional to station rating, with a cap of the amount that would be delivered under the present system. 15:04:44 <George> But on the high production levels this does not work. 15:04:59 <George> You have to deliver all ingridients 15:05:02 <Yexo> Pinkbeast: currently the cap is the highest station rating 15:05:15 <norbert79> I would still see options in such gameplay, since you can make things out of materials seperatly, but together they produce something else, for which you can more money from. 15:05:37 <Pinkbeast> If a given company has multiple stations their quota is that for one station with their highest rating, but then distribute that between their stations on the same basis 15:05:40 <norbert79> Wood -> Furniture. Wood + Steel -> planes... Just a rough example 15:05:49 <Yexo> if the industry produces 200 items of some cargo and you have stations with rating 40%, 50% and 60% the total amount distributed it 120 items (60% of 200) 15:06:10 <planetmaker> thanks for the explanation, George 15:06:17 <Yexo> that 120 is that distributed over the statios with rating 50% and 60% 15:06:17 <Pinkbeast> Where "rating" here is "old rating" minus (say) 10% for each week's production waiting at the station. 15:06:31 <Pinkbeast> Yeah, I'm reading that Wiki page. 15:06:38 <Yexo> Pinkbeast: there is no such thing as "one week's production" 15:06:53 <Pinkbeast> I don't understand why not, I'm afraid. 15:07:02 <norbert79> Yexo: Tell that to the producing companies :D 15:07:10 <norbert79> Yexo: manufacturing... 15:07:13 <George> norbert79: You get much more mony in case you deliver all the materials, because you have much higher output 15:07:30 <Yexo> because industry production is done by industries, OpenTTD can't accurately predict the production of the next day 15:07:56 <George> norbert79: Funiture factory would never produce planes. Only goods 15:08:11 <Pinkbeast> Use the value for last month's production reported by the GUI (with a minimum cap so we don't divide by zero above hee hee) 15:08:18 <norbert79> George: I somehow got you, since the game cannot handle the ammount of importers/companies, for which my logic would be useful, since if one skips game, there goes produciton, which would be similar to real life, but you can sure block production on cars for example. 15:08:32 <Yexo> last month's production is per industry, I think we'd need something per station in this case 15:08:43 <norbert79> George: Where in real life a new importer is soon to be found 15:08:43 <Yexo> which would be a new statistic, but that could be added 15:09:11 <norbert79> George: So the addon must be able to produce the goods somehow. Pity, but you are right :) 15:09:43 <norbert79> George: So yeah, I see your logic. 15:11:17 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@195-240-99-235.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:15 <Pinkbeast> No, I think per-station is wrong here. What would be the figure? 15:12:32 <norbert79> Ok, later everyone 15:12:35 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has quit [Quit: Exit stage left...] 15:12:56 <Yexo> just for the "immediate rating" I mean, the figure would be the amount of cargo delivered to the station last month, just for comparison with the current cargo amount 15:13:02 <George> norbert79: Anyway, feedbacks for ECS are welcome. Writing them on the forums is easier to manager them, than here, though 15:13:09 <Pinkbeast> That sounds like a recipe for feedback loops. 15:13:43 <Yexo> Pinkbeast: this time in a good way 15:13:49 <Pinkbeast> It increases the rating penalty for waiting cargo if the station has a low rating because then it got less cargo delivered... 15:14:45 <Yexo> but if less cargo is delivered it should be very easy to transport it all 15:15:02 <Yexo> if you still can't do that your transportation is simply crap and you deserve even less cargo 15:15:18 <Pinkbeast> But all that works just as well if we're comparing it with the industry's total production. 15:15:36 <Yexo> Pinkbeast: but what if a single station gets cargo from 10 industries at the same time? 15:15:58 <Yexo> and that can't be done for passenger stations, since the production of every individual house is very low 15:16:24 <Pinkbeast> Passengers> count the total available production. 15:16:39 <Yexo> instead of the actual amount delivered to the station we could use the maximum amount that could have been delivered to the station 15:16:45 <Pinkbeast> In fact, always count the total available production, maybe? If there are ten coalmines, the stacks of coal can get ten times as big 15:16:58 <Yexo> that is the industry production if a single industry, and the sum of industry production if there are multiple industries producing the same cargo 15:17:17 <Yexo> ok, so we thought of the same thing :) 15:17:29 <Pinkbeast> That's a good sign 15:18:40 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 15:20:42 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:26:53 *** loopcoop [~loopcoop@a-84-21.sc.andrews.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:32:28 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-037-119.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 15:32:33 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 15:33:10 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 15:38:37 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-80-217.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:39:03 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-80-217.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 15:42:45 <Diablo-D3> hrm 15:42:54 <Diablo-D3> I wonder how many people play solo with no AI 15:43:05 <Eddi|zuHause> lots 15:43:11 <Diablo-D3> Im considering it 15:43:12 <Pinkbeast> That's how I normally play. The AIs are vexing in various ways 15:43:38 <Diablo-D3> I mean, no server wants to run with the settings I want, the few servers that have similar settings are always emty 15:43:50 <Diablo-D3> and even if I just play vanilla openttd, servers are full of assholes 15:44:20 <Diablo-D3> and AIs wouldnt be so bad, but they cant play with grfs that change shit around 15:44:27 <planetmaker> we meanwhile know that all. 15:44:35 <planetmaker> you repeat this every 6 hours 15:44:39 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: well 15:44:44 <Diablo-D3> you keep saying "setup a server" 15:44:46 <Diablo-D3> why? 15:44:52 <Yexo> <Diablo-D3> and AIs wouldnt be so bad, but they cant play with grfs that change shit around <- that depends on what those grfs change 15:44:59 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d086435.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:44:59 <Yexo> AIs nowadays can cope with quite a long of changes 15:45:17 <Diablo-D3> Yexo: ECS usually is enough to stop an AI 15:45:27 <Pinkbeast> But FIRS isn't, and FIRS is a long way from vanilla. 15:45:31 <Yexo> ECS changes quite a lot 15:45:46 <Pinkbeast> The main thing I notice is atrociously mad vehicle selection with non-default vehicles 15:45:55 <Yexo> biggest problem is "requiring multiple cargoes to produce anything" and "stop accepting one cargo if the other doesn't get delivered" 15:46:02 <planetmaker> Diablo-D3: I gave you that advice once 15:46:14 <planetmaker> But you now whine in this channel for... how long? 48 hoursà 15:46:21 <planetmaker> How bad everything is etc pp 15:46:26 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: no, I wasnt even in the channel for about 24 hours 15:46:34 <Pinkbeast> Experimentally I tried UKRS2+2cc+one of every AI that builds trains 15:46:41 <Diablo-D3> the problem is openttd is one of the few games I keep coming back to 15:46:44 <Diablo-D3> and maybe I shouldnt 15:46:54 <Diablo-D3> but there just arent any fun games anymore 15:46:55 <Pinkbeast> ... most of them fix six 2cc pax carriages to a 2-2-0 Planet and then wonder why it loses money. 15:47:09 <Diablo-D3> Pinkbeast: most implies not all 15:47:19 <Diablo-D3> which ones didnt fail? 15:47:30 <Ammler> Diablo-D3: you see how boring you are, your less than 24 hours felt like 48 hours :-P 15:47:45 <Pinkbeast> It's a while back but I seem to recall Admiral got it together once the second or third loco emerged. 15:47:49 <Diablo-D3> Ammler: dude, we're in #openttd, its not quake. 15:48:06 <Diablo-D3> Pinkbeast: how do I restrict the game to only use specific AIs? 15:48:22 <Pinkbeast> To be fair, it's not completely obvious to the AI that the Planet can't actually pull freight _at all_ 15:48:37 <Pinkbeast> AI settings let you put specific AIs in specific slots (or only download the ones you want) 15:48:39 <Diablo-D3> isnt there functions for the AI to call that? 15:48:52 <Diablo-D3> er, call for that 15:49:19 <planetmaker> bah... way too noisy here 15:49:26 <Pinkbeast> I don't mean "it's prohibited"; I mean "the engine's power and tractive effort make freight totally impractical." 15:49:32 <Diablo-D3> Pinkbeast: oh. 15:49:43 <Diablo-D3> huh, I wonder why AI cant make the calculation then 15:49:50 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: can files be deleted from the devzone? the wagon sprites thread is clogged up with lots of unneeded old versions of sprites 15:50:05 <Diablo-D3> I thought I saw addons that just provide large libraries for AI to use 15:50:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: i'm pretty sure they do 15:50:19 <Yexo> <Diablo-D3> huh, I wonder why AI cant make the calculation then <- they probably can, but that doesn't mean all AIs actually implement that 15:50:21 <planetmaker> they can... but... why? They serve a purpose in a way 15:50:40 <Pinkbeast> I think the issue is that AI developers don't consider the edge case where the right number of freight wagons is zero, which is not really their fault. 15:50:58 <Elukka> i saw that oberhÃŒmer had deleted some of his own sprites but i can't seem to delete mine 15:51:01 <Yexo> how can the right number of freight wagons be zero? 15:51:12 <Diablo-D3> Yexo: the train engine is the wrong engine for the task 15:51:18 <Pinkbeast> Yexo> I mean, it's not practical to pull freight at all. 15:51:54 <planetmaker> yes, there are edit rights involved. oberhumer is one of the project devlopers by what the project says 15:51:58 <planetmaker> thus he can edit tasks 15:52:06 <Pinkbeast> The engine is wrong, and it's the only engine in 1830. 15:52:16 <Diablo-D3> er, cant I add AI through the online content window anymore? 15:53:07 <Yexo> Diablo-D3: in the main menu chose "AI settings" 15:53:15 <Yexo> you can download them from the online content 15:53:27 <Diablo-D3> I must be blind, I see no AI in the list 15:53:44 <Yexo> it depends from where you open the online content window 15:53:46 <planetmaker> Elukka: from my POV deleting the attachment is not a good thing in that case either, though. It destroys part of the issues history 15:53:47 <Diablo-D3> and I used to be able to a few versions back before the new newgrf settings window 15:53:52 <Yexo> if you open it from the enwgrf window it's filtered to newgrfs 15:54:02 <Yexo> if you open it from the "select AI' window it's filtered to AIs 15:54:05 <Diablo-D3> thats... kinda nonobvious 15:54:08 <Pinkbeast> But the AI settings window lets you open it and what Yexo said 15:54:11 <Yexo> if you open it from the main menu it shows all kind of content 15:55:09 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-2-96-18-79.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 15:55:17 <planetmaker> or do you feel you should be emberrassed of the first versions? I don't think so 15:56:34 <andythenorth> planetmaker: wrong room? 15:57:09 <planetmaker> no? Elukka asked in this channel 15:57:14 <andythenorth> oh 15:57:21 * andythenorth was missing the thread :m 15:59:21 <Yexo> Pinkbeast: I can see the problem with the 2-2-0 planet. Which engine available in 1920 would you find better suited? 16:00:12 <Diablo-D3> Supports NewGRF vehicles (tested with Zephyris' eGRVTS, George's Long Vehicles v4, and PikkaBird?'s HOVS) 16:00:12 <Diablo-D3> Supports NewGRF house and industry sets (tested with TTRS, George's ECS Vectors and PikkaBird's PBI) 16:00:17 <Diablo-D3> ^ pathzilla 16:00:23 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if it works as well as it claims to 16:00:32 <Pinkbeast> Yexo> 1920? Lots. I'm just saying, train AIs don't handle the UKRS2 in 1830 case well, but it is pretty pathological and I don't see it as developers' faults. 16:02:28 <Yexo> Pinkbeast: it doesn't have to be anybodies 'fault' for there to be room for improvement 16:03:30 <Pinkbeast> Indeed... but equally, when one notices room for improvement, I think it's good to make it clear that you aren't criticising anyone. 16:03:35 <Pinkbeast> Unless they're an idiot. :-) 16:04:05 <Diablo-D3> I wonder what would happen if I started the game in 1700 16:04:27 <Pinkbeast> You'd spend a very long time pushing around eGRTVTS horse vehicles and Sailing Ships, at best. 16:04:39 <Diablo-D3> I have nars and ukrs2 too 16:04:51 <Pinkbeast> They start in 1830, so not pertinent here 16:05:06 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0afbc7.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:05:45 <Pinkbeast> Also all the buildings will look really silly 16:07:07 <Yexo> a 2-2-0 planet with 182 tonnes of coal can reach 25 km/h, but with 208 tonnes of coal it can't go faster than 1km/h 16:07:18 <Pinkbeast> I think these days you can start in 1AD if you like. "Well, the cargo manifest says five loaves and seven fishes, but there sure is a lot of it now." 16:07:27 <Yexo> and I have absolutely no clue how to calculate the maximum amount an engine can pull 16:07:32 <Diablo-D3> Pinkbeast: :D 16:07:46 <Pinkbeast> 25 km/h # until it hits a hill, when it stops. 16:07:47 <Diablo-D3> Yexo: cars have weights 16:08:02 <Diablo-D3> ... yeah, I see the problem 16:08:05 <Yexo> Pinkbeast: ok, hills are a big problem indeed :p 16:08:08 <Pinkbeast> You can build loaded-only-downhill lines and that's it (and they aren't super profitable either) 16:08:19 <Yexo> yes, I can calculate the weight of the cars 16:08:21 <Diablo-D3> so if planet sucks so much, why is it in the grf? 16:08:32 <Yexo> but how do I calculate what the maximum weight is that an engine can pull? 16:08:35 <Pinkbeast> Er... it doesn't suck. It's better than any other engine available in 1830. 16:08:38 <Diablo-D3> Yexo: read the source 16:08:47 <Diablo-D3> Pinkbeast: if it cant pull a lot of freight, why have it? 16:09:01 <Pinkbeast> a) It's real and b) pax services. 16:09:12 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but its not pax only 16:09:18 <Yexo> thanks for the very constructive answer Diablo-D3, but I didn't plan on simulating every engine 16:09:22 <valhallasw> Yexo: to accurately calculate that, you would need more details 16:09:40 <Diablo-D3> the game knows how to calculate it because it does... 16:09:43 <Eddi|zuHause> <Yexo> but how do I calculate what the maximum weight is that an engine can pull? <-- power / speed = rolling resistance + wind resistance 16:09:48 <Yexo> valhallasw: I don't need "accurate", a rough approximation is enough 16:09:49 <Diablo-D3> why cant openttd just warn you what you did is stupid? 16:10:20 <Pinkbeast> Because if you're playing with UKRS2 starting in or before 1830 you probably know enough about railways to know it's stupid. 16:10:20 <valhallasw> Yexo: calculate the initial acceleration, and determine a sensible minimum? 16:10:50 <Yexo> <Pinkbeast> Because if you're playing with UKRS2 starting in or before 1830 you probably know enough about railways to know it's stupid. <- that is a very wrong assumption 16:10:52 <Pinkbeast> ... or just if you understand what "maximum tractive effort" means in gameplay 16:11:16 <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: wouldn't you need to calculate for going up a slope? 16:11:18 <Diablo-D3> heh, if AI would just choose that, it'd "fix" a lot of bugs 16:11:43 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: you can factor in slopes as well 16:12:07 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: ok. Given an AI can't get the wind resistance yet (I could take a constant for it), I just need to calculate the rolling resistance 16:12:07 <Diablo-D3> maybe sort all engines by, say, power and tractive effort and ignore speed 16:12:14 <Eddi|zuHause> add + angle*mass*g 16:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause> (angle in %) 16:12:45 <Pinkbeast> Yexo> Really? I would think the experience of using those very early engines would be deeply frustrating for a player who doesn't at least slightly value the experience because they're real. 16:13:06 <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: but what mass? the mass of the whole train, or just the max mass of the segment of the train that's on the short slope? 16:13:33 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: the game mechanics is totally flawed in that respect anyway 16:13:39 <b_jonas> oh 16:14:23 <valhallasw> Yexo: I doubt saying 'tractive effort > rolling resistance' gives you what you want - after all, a train that accelerates very very slowly still does that 16:14:26 <b_jonas> but anyway, I think you need some correction for slopes, because very few people will build only completely flat rails. 16:14:38 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: but anyway, the whole train, and the angle is calculated by the amount of slopes the train is on 16:14:46 <b_jonas> I see 16:14:49 <valhallasw> Yexo: In the end, I think you want to know 'can I sensibly use this locomotive for this train' 16:15:15 <Yexo> valhallasw: at the point I'm choosing an engine I have no clue about the wagons yet 16:15:22 <b_jonas> some NewGRFs at least export short human-readable usage descriptions for trains 16:15:27 <b_jonas> for train engines I maen 16:15:27 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: and the impact of slopes is different if the train is already running, or if it is starting up 16:15:53 <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: that latter is at least realistic 16:15:57 <Pinkbeast> Eddi> I think you may be letting perfection be the enemy of good. 16:16:08 <b_jonas> Pinkbeast: no, sorry, I forced him there 16:17:17 <Diablo-D3> hrm. 16:17:24 <Diablo-D3> so is pathzilla the best AI? 16:17:41 <Pinkbeast> I'm not sure that "best AI" is a meaningful concept 16:17:42 <Diablo-D3> it seems admiral is good, but screws itself on alternate road grfs 16:17:56 <Yexo> on which ones exactly? 16:17:59 <Yexo> I'd like to fix it 16:18:10 <Diablo-D3> thread said egrvts 16:18:30 <b_jonas> Admiral seems to usually work well for me. Also, it's better than it used to be. 16:18:40 <Pinkbeast> I'm pretty sure Admiral doesn't make too bad a hash of things with eGRVTS 16:18:41 <b_jonas> Though currently I'm playing a game without AI. 16:19:00 <Pinkbeast> It did love to fill the road with HEQS crawlers last time I tried it with HEQS 16:19:10 <Diablo-D3> Im using heqs too :< 16:19:25 <Pinkbeast> In terms of dealing well with random collections of newgrfs, though, NoCAB is the best I've found. 16:19:30 <Yexo> Also, it's better than it used to be. <- That's funny, it hasn't been updated for over a year (or 2 years now?) 16:19:45 <Yexo> yes, 2 years 16:19:56 <b_jonas> Newgrfs can mess with the game in such powerful way that no AI can be prepared for everything. 16:20:20 <b_jonas> Yexo: I've been playing openttd for longer than that 16:20:31 <b_jonas> with long pauses when I tried to be productive 16:23:19 <Diablo-D3> nocab seems to rape admiralai in normal gameplay vs 16:23:55 <Pinkbeast> Or "beat", as we say when we're older than 13. 16:25:19 <Elukka> <@planetmaker> Elukka: from my POV deleting the attachment is not a good thing in that case either, though. It destroys part of the issues history 16:25:26 <Diablo-D3> http://wiki.openttd.org/Comparison_of_AIs 16:25:30 <Diablo-D3> is this out of date? 16:25:34 <Diablo-D3> it says pathzilla cant do trains 16:25:45 <Elukka> well, i don't have a problem with my old crap being out there, but i do stupid stuff like uploading a version then noticing the lighting is off in a couple places then uploading a nearly identical fixed version :D 16:25:46 <Eddi|zuHause> wiki pages are notoriously out of date 16:27:01 <planetmaker> Elukka: that happens, yes. You're not alone with that :-) 16:30:15 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:30:36 <Elukka> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/1894/pr_3_abteilwagen_4kl_7lu_v2_fixed.png 16:30:46 <Elukka> see it's not just a compartment coach, it's a version 2, fixed compartment coach :P 16:33:16 <planetmaker> so? :-) 16:35:01 <pjpe> are we ever going to see these in motion 16:35:32 <Eddi|zuHause> sure... 16:35:43 <planetmaker> Elukka: it's actually that one can learn from that process, too :-) 16:35:46 <pjpe> this smooth turning thing is exciting 16:35:50 <planetmaker> by just comparing the work steps 16:35:58 <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't think oberhÃŒmer's november release date is awfully realistic 16:36:26 <Elukka> you'll see them in motion if these fine people think they're good enough and get them coded :P 16:36:33 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: for CETS? 16:36:44 <planetmaker> hm... I'd not yet set a date :-) 16:37:03 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: oberhÃŒmer kinda wanted a release date similar to DBSetXL 0.9 ;) 16:37:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but we need to get the needed openttd patches into trunk before a public release 16:38:04 <planetmaker> yes 16:38:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and before we do that, we need to figure out what exactly is actually needed 16:38:37 <Diablo-D3> erm 16:38:44 <planetmaker> I don't like an externally - forced time schedule, though. Exactly that's why ^ 16:38:44 <Diablo-D3> the horse drawn carriages dont work :< 16:39:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: they are buggy with realistic acceleration 16:39:08 <Diablo-D3> ahh 16:39:09 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:39:18 <Eddi|zuHause> so better turn that off 16:39:25 <V453000> lol 16:40:43 <Elukka> it's perhaps best to set internal deadlines rather than anything that might seem like a promise to others 16:40:49 <Diablo-D3> LOL 16:40:52 <Elukka> deadlines are good just to make people work more 16:40:53 <Diablo-D3> ithe animations even work 16:40:54 <Elukka> works for me at least 16:41:07 <Diablo-D3> and horses are randomly colored 16:41:08 <Elukka> they also make a funny noise when they whoosh past 16:41:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and they make funny noise when they break down :p 16:42:06 <Eddi|zuHause> (the horses, not the deadlines) 16:42:09 <Diablo-D3> and its articulated 16:42:18 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: deadlines make funny noises when they breakdown 16:42:21 <Diablo-D3> Ive seen it happen 16:42:42 <Diablo-D3> it usually involves a balding middle aged guy bitching at someone loudly, even though the corner office door is shut 16:42:45 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:44:54 <Elukka> i believe deadlines also make a funny noise when they break down 16:45:25 <planetmaker> deadlines sometimes indeed make funny noises when they break down :-P 16:46:52 <SmatZ> deadlines? 16:47:14 <V453000> lines, but drunk to death 16:48:27 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:51:33 <SmatZ> :( 16:51:53 <V453000> dont worry, enough beer for both you and lines :P 16:54:03 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:59:15 * Pinkbeast wonders if anything can be done about transfer credits 17:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> depends 17:02:16 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 17:03:14 <Eddi|zuHause> two options are: 1) abolish transfer credits, always pay real money for the partial route. but this allows abuse. 2) record all partial routes and the vehicle involved in the cargo packet, and distribute transfer credits on final delivery. this potentially increases memory footprint 17:04:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A19E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:07:06 <planetmaker> for the reason of 1) that seems not like a good solution 17:08:08 <planetmaker> 2) is not a principal problem (OpenTTD is not a big memory consumer atm - but cargo packets can be plenty, so that it in this particular case is not uncritical either) 17:09:12 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=54440 17:09:14 <Eddi|zuHause> wrt 2 17:09:34 <Eddi|zuHause> and i had an unfinished/buggy patch wrt 1) 17:12:08 <Elukka> what's the ETA of getting the first CETS sprites in game? 17:12:34 <planetmaker> no ETA there 17:12:42 <Elukka> i realize there's probably no- yeah 17:12:48 <Elukka> is it a month or a year thing :D 17:12:48 <planetmaker> :-) 17:13:19 <planetmaker> In principle sprites can be added, I guess. But Eddi has a much better overview there 17:13:27 <andythenorth> there's an ETA? 17:13:39 <andythenorth> what's the ETA on FIRS? Someone should tell me :P 17:13:45 <planetmaker> tomorrow! 17:13:51 <planetmaker> (for the next nightly) 17:13:51 <Pinkbeast> I had an intermediate idea, actually. 17:14:27 <Elukka> FIRS is cool and very playable 17:14:31 <Elukka> ETA was... some months ago? :P 17:14:40 <andythenorth> Elukka: you're using FIRS 0.6.x ? 17:14:44 <Pinkbeast> Rather than track every place a cargo packet goes, which could make them huge especially in cargodisty games, track the last station it came from. 17:14:44 <andythenorth> or 0.7 beta? 17:14:48 <Elukka> 0.7 17:15:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: that doesn't work. 17:15:24 <Pinkbeast> Every time a cargo packet arrives somewhere, work out what the right transfer payment percentage would have been for the previous leg 17:15:29 <Pinkbeast> Eddi> Hang on... 17:16:00 <Elukka> FIRS + YACD is hard 17:16:16 <Elukka> i do wish turning off destinations for industries worked in YACD but it is growing on me 17:16:17 <Pinkbeast> Stations track those percentages, so if station A gets a packet of cargo X from station B it knows the right transfer payment percentage to use 17:16:22 <Pinkbeast> ... but 17:16:30 <andythenorth> Elukka: FIRS + YACD will be better soon 17:16:34 <Elukka> FIRS + YACD + 2cc is triple-plus hard :D 17:16:46 <andythenorth> Elukka: do you know how to build FIRS trunk? 17:16:46 <Pinkbeast> Maybe it needs to be finer grained than that - divide it up by type of vehicle? Order list? 17:17:05 <Elukka> how what 17:17:38 <planetmaker> :-) compile newgrfs 17:17:54 <andythenorth> oh you could get the nightly build 17:17:58 <andythenorth> hmm 17:18:03 <andythenorth> it won't work with YACD build though 17:18:12 <planetmaker> indeed :S 17:18:22 <Elukka> yeah i haven't the faintest idea how to compile anything 17:18:26 <andythenorth> I think FIRS + YACD will be *much* better with the changed station rating algorithm 17:18:40 <andythenorth> basically YACD + FIRS currently sucks because there's hardly any cargo produced 17:18:48 <Elukka> what are the changes? 17:18:49 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 17:19:49 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 17:20:11 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:20:15 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:20:37 <andythenorth> Elukka: the station ratings are much higher for much longer 17:20:51 <andythenorth> this means that more of the industry output is sent to the station 17:21:05 <andythenorth> normally with YACD I get ratings at about 20% 17:21:09 <Alberth> moin 17:21:14 <Elukka> same 17:21:14 <planetmaker> hi Alberth 17:21:19 <andythenorth> so a farm producing 16t / month, over 4 destinations... 17:21:29 <andythenorth> @calc .2*16 17:21:29 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 3.2 17:21:35 <Elukka> i wish i could run the new version 17:21:35 <andythenorth> produces 3.2t 17:21:42 <andythenorth> so less than 1t per destination 17:21:48 <andythenorth> so 2 years to load a truck 17:21:52 <andythenorth> kind of sucks 17:21:53 <planetmaker> :-) 17:22:05 <planetmaker> shrink the truck :-P 17:22:14 <andythenorth> you'd think with a truck waiting for 2 years, you'd get better ratings :/ 17:22:19 <andythenorth> but you don't :P 17:22:39 <planetmaker> well, that's a yacd issue 17:22:45 <Elukka> i suppose one day someone will compile things :P 17:22:45 <planetmaker> not a newgrf-solvable thing 17:23:02 <andythenorth> planetmaker: we might have solved it already 17:23:09 <planetmaker> so? 17:23:14 <planetmaker> how so? 17:23:14 <andythenorth> I haven't tested in a YACD game, but I think it will be much better 17:23:26 <andythenorth> the new station rating algorithm 17:23:42 <andythenorth> the 100% rating setting in FIRS is *stupid* and possibly we should remove that :) 17:23:48 <planetmaker> well... that's rather a hack than a solution 17:23:54 <planetmaker> a newgrf must not try to solve the issue 17:24:07 <andythenorth> I think we discussed that and disagreed with you :) 17:24:08 <planetmaker> it should work without taking care of yacd 17:24:14 <Pinkbeast> Also OTTD hates having a truck that runs around all the farms picking up whatever they've got 17:24:16 <planetmaker> openttd must solve that 17:24:28 <andythenorth> I'd rather ottd didn't solve it 17:24:37 <planetmaker> andythenorth: if all you have is a nail, all the tools look like a hammer. 17:24:44 <planetmaker> But that doesn't help it here really 17:24:54 <andythenorth> if you put the option into the game, it's yet another point of variation that FIRS has to balance against 17:24:59 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-80-217.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:15 <andythenorth> so by adding that setting you put *2 on all FIRS testing tasks 17:25:24 <andythenorth> unless the setting has n options 17:25:35 <andythenorth> that you put *n, where n is a sane number of discrete steps 17:25:59 <andythenorth> the same argument applies to having it as a parameter in FIRS of course 17:27:19 <andythenorth> planetmaker: how would ottd solve it? 17:27:26 <andythenorth> to avoid the nail / hammer issue 17:27:28 *** loopcoop [~loopcoop@a-84-21.sc.andrews.edu] has joined #openttd 17:28:47 <planetmaker> andythenorth: the source of the problem lies within openttd which breaks existing stuff. Thus openttd must solve it at least somehow. There's more industry NewGRFs than FIRS 17:28:56 <planetmaker> thus the FIRS solution is even inferior 17:29:05 <andythenorth> what would be better? 17:29:11 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: which side of a wagon do we want brakeman's cabs/platforms on? 17:29:27 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 17:29:29 <andythenorth> planetmaker: would it be better to have same adjustment to station ratings, but in ottd? 17:29:30 <planetmaker> station rating should remain at sane levels 17:29:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: probably the end 17:29:44 <Elukka> alright 17:30:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: put the station rating thing into a separate grf 17:30:46 <Eddi|zuHause> if you can 17:30:52 <andythenorth> I can't 17:30:55 <andythenorth> not maintainably 17:31:02 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, then don't ;) 17:31:05 <andythenorth> not without publishing it from the same repo + codebase as FIRS 17:31:08 <andythenorth> which seems pointless 17:31:21 <andythenorth> separate grf instead of parameter? Seems bonkers 17:31:54 <andythenorth> isn't the fix a rewrite of station rating, with advanced setting 17:32:03 <andythenorth> ship 'original' as default, offer n variations 17:32:16 <andythenorth> have a community vote about what the variations should be 17:32:38 <andythenorth> pay special attention to existing industry newgrf authors whose sets will be unbalanced by this 17:32:44 <planetmaker> andythenorth: the error description is "all industry newgrfs are broken". 17:32:52 <andythenorth> ? 17:33:04 <planetmaker> The solution à la "fix all newgrfs" is not the best, IMHO. 17:33:29 <planetmaker> At least it should not be the only one. At least it needs a flag like "YACD active for cargos xyz" or alike 17:34:02 <planetmaker> or vice versa newgrf-support to (dis)allow yacd for single cargos or the extend of yacd (num destinations) 17:34:18 <planetmaker> or whatever 17:35:30 <andythenorth> ah 17:35:32 <andythenorth> ok 17:35:36 <andythenorth> we talk at cross purposes 17:35:37 <andythenorth> :) 17:35:48 <andythenorth> I mislead you 17:36:04 <andythenorth> the ratings algorithm change is a valid fix for non-YACD and (maybe) YACD 17:36:06 <andythenorth> both 17:36:08 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-80-217.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 17:36:34 <andythenorth> and it could be a valid fix for trunk ottd 17:36:43 <andythenorth> but then you have a community problem, and a code problem 17:38:34 <andythenorth> if the game changes this, someone has to decide what's better, and then there's a bun fight 17:38:40 <andythenorth> if newgrf changes it, no bun fight 17:43:29 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:45:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22933 /trunk/src/lang/slovenian.txt: 17:45:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 4 changes by 17:45:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: slovenian - 10 changes by Necrolyte 17:47:55 <Elukka> um. 17:47:59 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f77ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:48:27 <Elukka> Eddi|ZuHause: since the brakeman's cab goes above the roof, it'll end up in the overlap zone on the diagonal views 17:48:31 <Elukka> kinda having trouble imagining how that works 17:49:05 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-191-179.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 17:49:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that'll be fine 17:50:10 *** loopcoop [~loopcoop@a-84-21.sc.andrews.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:54:34 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-72-134.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:58:58 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.233.237.150] has joined #openttd 17:59:48 <Wolf01> hello 18:00:40 <Alberth> hi Wolf01 18:10:10 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-72-134.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 18:16:48 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:28:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22934 /trunk/src/network/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#4771]: prevent authentication bypass for the admin port when a new game is started 18:41:56 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-037-119.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 18:42:58 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has joined #openttd 18:47:41 <andythenorth> it's funny how annoying alluke is even when he's being right 18:49:41 <Pinkbeast> It's way easier to be annoying when you're right - if you do it when you're wrong you just look silly 18:50:04 <MNIM> word 18:54:29 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22935 /branches/1.1/ (11 files in 6 dirs): 18:56:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk: 18:56:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Prevent authentication bypass for the admin port when a new game is started [FS#4771] (r22934) 18:56:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: TTO savegames with any aircraft not in an hangar caused crashes during load (r22915) 18:56:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Windows 2000 and XP without service pack 3 must use the win9x binary/installer; the newer MSVC compiler of the compile farm does not support those versions of Windows anymore [FS#4749] (r22909) 18:58:19 <Elukka> alluke? there's someone whose nick is confusingly much like mine in reverse? 18:58:42 <pjpe> or 18:58:43 <pjpe> the other one 18:59:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22936 /branches/1.1/src/lang/ (32 files): [1.1] -Backport from trunk: language updates 19:00:33 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 19:01:43 <planetmaker> Elukka: that nick is not easily confused with yours ;-) 19:01:57 <Elukka> confused me :P 19:02:01 <planetmaker> :-D 19:02:17 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:02:30 <planetmaker> he's around longer... but... well. Let's say the quality of conversation differs 19:02:57 <V453000> :D 19:03:04 <V453000> indeed 19:03:24 <V453000> lets say his intelligence is more spread over the amount of the time he has been around 19:03:38 <andythenorth> he doesn't talk here that much 19:03:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22937 /branches/1.1/ (8 files in 6 dirs): [1.1] -Prepare 1.1.3 19:03:48 <planetmaker> nope, only(?) in the forums 19:03:50 <andythenorth> he maanges to concentrate a lot of annoyance into a small number of words 19:04:10 <planetmaker> yeah. on a scale of 1...10 he reaches at least 9 19:04:39 <Elukka> :D 19:05:15 <V453000> :D 19:05:21 <V453000> I am 10? :P 19:06:02 <Rubidium> V453000: nah, maybe F, but not 10 ;) 19:06:09 <V453000> :D 19:06:15 <V453000> awesome 19:09:38 <Eddi|zuHause> don't encourage him, man! :p 19:09:58 * Rubidium also always wondered why an F was such a bad grade. It's a near 10 19:10:20 <Eddi|zuHause> some countries have high numbers the worst grade :p 19:10:37 <Eddi|zuHause> it's even more funny, they don't have an E 19:10:40 <Eddi|zuHause> only A-D and F 19:11:27 <Alberth> turning a F into an E would be too easy :) 19:11:49 <Rubidium> Alberth: a B is still easy as well 19:12:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22938 /tags/1.1.3/ (10 files in 4 dirs): -Release: 1.1.3 19:12:50 <frosch123> hmm, there was some guy in school who had to do a seminar about writing html. when he came to colour codes, he said "f" would mean "full" 19:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and once again it's not midnight for a long time! 19:12:58 <Elukka> we do 4-10, 10 being the best 19:13:01 <Elukka> no idea why it starts at 4 19:13:09 <Elukka> some higher education is 5-1 where lower is best... 19:13:58 <Eddi|zuHause> in east germany we had 5-1 where 1 was best, and after we switched to the western system, we had 6-1 with 1 best 19:14:15 <frosch123> in my youth it was 6 - 1 for lower grades, 0 to 15 for higher grades, and 5 - 1 at university 19:15:38 <frosch123> hmm, though some courses actually had 6-1 at university, where 5 meant "you are allowed to visit a second oral-exam", while 6 meant "totally failed" 19:18:47 *** erik1984 [~erik1984@vhe-490300.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 19:21:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22939 /trunk/ (changelog.txt docs/32bpp.txt known-bugs.txt readme.txt): -Merge: release documentation updates from 1.1 19:22:40 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the west german kids were dumber, so they needed the additional grade... 19:22:54 <pjpe> i somehow doubt that 19:25:39 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it doesn't really make sense otherwise to split "failed" into "well he _almost_ reached minimum standard" and "there is no hope for you whatsoever" 19:25:55 <pjpe> sure there is 19:25:59 <pjpe> there's a big difference 19:26:12 <Eddi|zuHause> failed is failed... 19:26:23 <pjpe> kinda sucks that the gpa at my university for marks under 50 is basically one big block of like 19:26:25 <pjpe> 0.7 or something 19:26:47 <pjpe> there's a difference between never showed up to class or take any test and showed up all the time but barely failed 19:26:49 <Eddi|zuHause> you get 50% right by just guessing... 19:27:06 <pjpe> maybe at east german clown college 19:27:11 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-3-230.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:27:18 <pjpe> what would that be called 19:27:21 <pjpe> Klowninstitut? 19:28:06 <Eddi|zuHause> grade 4 (i.e. "barely passed") is usually given at 50% of the points 19:28:09 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yes, that's also what a professor said when someone got 2 of 100 points in a test which contained on task which would give you 5 with that stategy 19:28:34 <pjpe> why is there even a grade of 4 19:28:37 <pjpe> why not just 0-100 19:28:39 <pjpe> like normal 19:28:41 <pjpe> like here! 19:29:08 <Eddi|zuHause> pjpe: because differentiating between 87 and 84 is just too fine-scale 19:29:15 <frosch123> pjpe: because those who fail the math tests, shall also know that they failed 19:29:41 <pjpe> i can't imagine a world where my mark isn't in -100 19:29:45 <pjpe> i will not have it 19:30:14 <pjpe> "clownschule" 19:30:33 <Eddi|zuHause> german grades can usually given a "+" or "-" if the fine scale is really needed 19:30:54 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has joined #openttd 19:31:01 <Eddi|zuHause> in my university that is modelled by adding or substracting 0.3 19:31:23 <Eddi|zuHause> where going outside the range [1,4] is forbidden 19:32:10 <Eddi|zuHause> so the allowed values are 1.0 [best], 1.3, 1.7, 2.0, ..., 3.3, 3.7, 4.0 [passed] 19:32:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and "failed", which doesn't have a number associated with it 19:36:31 *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@2a01:270:dd00:7701:1337:1337:1337:1337] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:37:05 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 19:39:31 <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=970483#p970483 <- Eddi|zuHause: industries could purchase vehicles via cb 18 :p 19:39:55 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: lmao :p 19:51:37 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 19:51:46 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 19:51:54 <MNIM> hmmmh. 19:53:42 <Alberth> another word 19:56:17 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:49 <MNIM> Bah, I doo this too often. 20:00:09 <MNIM> I think up a reaction to something, then I get distracted and forget that I was going to say something 20:01:03 <Alberth> don't press 'ENTER' until you typed everything :) 20:01:38 <Alberth> and don't be afraid of not posting something :) 20:02:02 <MNIM> Anyway. I was going to ask if it was possible to do the ecs thing with industries with separate parts of a building, but having the underground coloured like the industry too 20:02:27 <MNIM> (and then being able to build anything of your choice on top of it) 20:06:23 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:06:39 <Eddi|zuHause> what?!? 20:09:56 <MNIM> whatwhat? 20:13:10 * Alberth believes 'build anything of your choice on top of it' was the trigger 20:13:22 <MNIM> ahah 20:13:37 <MNIM> well, anything like rails, roads, busstops and stations 20:15:05 <Eddi|zuHause> so you want to build rails on industry tiles? 20:15:12 <andythenorth> terraforming near rivers is annoying 20:15:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yep, you risk way too easily to destroy the river 20:17:20 <Elukka> i think there should be a 'indestructible rivers' toggle 20:18:00 <planetmaker> that would disallow building buoys and so on, too 20:18:13 <Elukka> oh :/ 20:18:45 <MNIM> Not on industry tiles, exactly. More like the ground sprites of the industry extend to cover the ground inbetween 20:19:16 <MNIM> In the ECS industries vector, like you see with the coal mine, I usually build my stations in the gap inbetween 20:22:07 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: like FIRS with CHIPS? 20:22:27 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:31 <MNIM> close 20:22:31 <MNIM> http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/OTTD/IndustrialStation.png 20:22:44 <MNIM> dunno, never actually used firs 20:22:56 <MNIM> anyway, I meant like this 20:23:02 <V453000> nice station 20:23:09 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 20:23:20 <V453000> or at least ... looks nice :) 20:23:21 <MNIM> here it's a car factory consisting of two parts, with a bridge walkway over a road 20:24:12 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: so now you want the pavement of the road look like the industry next to it? 20:24:30 <MNIM> pretty much 20:25:15 <MNIM> personally, I think it would be an idea to have the road sprites contain the roads only, and not, like in that image a potentially mismatching roadside 20:25:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that's going to be tricky 20:25:39 <MNIM> or does OTTD not compute the terrain sprites under the roads? 20:25:49 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: yes, railtypes do that already 20:25:52 <planetmaker> MNIM: roadtypes ;-) 20:26:19 <Eddi|zuHause> but that will only make grass/snow/desert appear, not industry ground 20:26:45 <Eddi|zuHause> these checks have deliberately been left out of the railtype specs 20:27:36 <MNIM> well, I know that with my current nutracks version, it does indeed give the correct terrain colour for the grassland, but the change from grass to snow still is abrupt 20:28:32 <planetmaker> yes, it can't be helped currently 20:33:13 <MNIM> ahah 20:33:28 <MNIM> oh well, it still looks pretty, even with a mismatch here and there 20:34:43 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-80-217.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:35:29 <Eddi|zuHause> smooth snow transition under rail could be done with more map bits 20:36:04 <Eddi|zuHause> sooner or later we need to consider the option to add an m8 20:36:28 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: FWIW there is no way I'm doing smoother snow for FIRS 20:36:37 <Yexo> it can even be done already if you don't care the update is instantanious instead of during the tileloop 20:36:39 <andythenorth> smoother snow is over-rated 20:37:54 <planetmaker> smatz once had a patch for that iirc 20:39:41 <planetmaker> but snow transitions should be known w/o map bits. Same as desert transition 20:39:52 <planetmaker> s/should/could/ 20:40:50 <Eddi|zuHause> (visual) problem with that is during snow line movement the change will be simultaneous on all tiles 20:41:02 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of piece by piece like the other tiles 20:41:25 <planetmaker> it wouldn't. As updates would be during the tile loop 20:44:10 *** Francis [~flherne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:44:31 <andythenorth> could the train window(s) show length? 20:44:45 <andythenorth> as a numeric value? 20:47:19 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:47:29 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it would, since you cannot distinguish between "full snow" and "half snow" in the map bits, so transition between both would be instantaneous on changing the condition 20:48:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so instead of 1.0 it shows 16? 20:48:45 <Eddi|zuHause> or you mean showing the length also outside the depot window? 20:48:49 <andythenorth> the latter 20:48:53 <andythenorth> it would help 20:49:05 <andythenorth> currently I have to send train to depot to find its length 20:52:22 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x573c4281.espnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 20:52:25 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 21:05:04 <Sacro> Bjarni! \o/ 21:06:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:13:20 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:15:23 <frosch123> night 21:15:26 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f77ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:25 <Hirundo> planetmaker: If the transition is done during the tile loop, how would a tile know whether to draw the 'old' or 'new' state w/o map bits to store that info? 21:19:57 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-115-20.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 21:24:28 *** appe [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:37 <__ln__> Bjarnius Hafniensis! 21:31:07 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:32:01 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:32:36 *** appe [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has joined #openttd 21:33:32 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-115-20.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:34:29 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 21:35:32 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 21:42:23 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 21:48:39 *** Francis [~flherne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:52 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:02:49 *** appe [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:51 *** appe [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has joined #openttd 22:13:32 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:35 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:38 <Wolf01> 'night 22:15:41 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.233.237.150] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:18:20 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 22:21:36 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-72-134.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:31:18 *** Nite_Owl [~chatzilla@c-76-109-73-27.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:31:48 <Nite_Owl> Has the compile farm crashed again? 22:35:58 <Nite_Owl> Oops - I forgot the dang time difference... later all 22:36:03 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A19E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:08 *** Nite_Owl [~chatzilla@c-76-109-73-27.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:45:08 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:50:19 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 22:51:36 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-2-96-18-79.as13285.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:37 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:00 *** Adambean [AdamR@88.97.144.82] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 23:02:21 *** erik1984 [~erik1984@vhe-490300.sshn.net] has quit [Quit: Doei!] 23:12:08 *** appe [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:35 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d086435.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 23:20:07 *** appe [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has joined #openttd 23:23:23 *** Mr_Bones_ [~nobody@pool-71-168-64-57.cncdnh.fast.myfairpoint.net] has joined #openttd 23:24:08 <Mr_Bones_> any ETA on 1.1.3 final? I'd like to avoid security masking 1.1.2 and just to a quick stable bump instead on Gentoo. 23:24:27 <Eddi|zuHause> like... 3 hours ago? 23:25:47 <Mr_Bones_> got a url for me? the web site isn't updated yet afaict. 23:26:42 <Eddi|zuHause> try binaries.openttd.org 23:27:18 <Mr_Bones_> ah, got it, thanks. the news hasn't been posted but I see the files. great, thanks. 23:28:49 <Mr_Bones_> would be nice if you guys would pull in something like the patch at http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/games-simulation/openttd/files/ 23:29:12 <Eddi|zuHause> post it to bugs.openttd.org 23:31:04 <Mr_Bones_> looks like it needs a login. it would have to allow anonymous bug submissions for me to post there. that's ok, it's a small enough patch for me to continue maintaining it. 23:37:07 <Pinkbeast> Oh, relationships with upstream, how we miss you... 23:38:21 <Terkhen> good night 23:49:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Mr_Bones_: registration is required in case feedback is needed 23:49:48 <Eddi|zuHause> which, honestly, is fairly likely, if you want to get a patch in 23:55:46 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:59:10 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]