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00:08:34 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 00:25:36 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:56 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:43:20 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:49:57 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:04:09 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:1922:d8b3:bcc8:c107] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:04:53 *** Xrufuian [~link@pool-98-119-100-133.lsanca.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 01:11:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-195-171.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:13:01 <Hinrik> http://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_station#Ro-Ro 01:13:30 <Hinrik> the caption for that image talks about an "upper" and a "lower" station, but the two stations are level 01:13:36 <Hinrik> there's just left and right 01:13:42 <Hinrik> which one is using path signals? 01:14:24 *** najevi [3ce27ca3@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 01:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> better exchange "upper" for "left" 01:18:52 <Hinrik> will do 01:24:11 *** hanf^ [~Klaus@host-89-241-76-3.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:31:56 *** zachanima [~zach@0x52b41806.static.bcbnet.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:32:11 *** zachanima [~zach@0x52b41806.static.bcbnet.dk] has joined #openttd 01:46:23 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-052-080.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 02:25:06 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-141-002.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:30:57 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-208-240.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:08:07 *** Elukka [~Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 04:19:06 *** jerry_ [~jerry@c-24-9-36-205.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:43:27 *** Elukka [~Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44:09 *** Elukka [~Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B72F79.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7422B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:51:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:22:41 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:32:47 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 06:46:27 <Elukka> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/1916/pr_4_abteilwagen_3kl_10lu.png 06:46:30 <Elukka> pixels, pixels everywhere 06:47:11 <andythenorth> you're really drawing that many angles :O 06:47:19 <andythenorth> this isn't rendered? 06:47:47 <Elukka> it isn't 06:47:55 <Elukka> i considered it but it seemed like it'd be more work for such low res sprites 06:49:45 <andythenorth> :o 06:51:16 <Elukka> don't planepeople have even more angles to do? 06:52:15 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-115-20.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 06:58:59 <andythenorth> hmm 06:59:23 * andythenorth needs more boats 07:01:01 <Elukka> mmmm, fish 07:01:59 <andythenorth> meh 07:02:07 <Elukka> so you've done about fifty million sprites 07:02:08 <andythenorth> bigger boats look silly in canals + rivers 07:02:11 <Elukka> how fast do you pump them out? 07:02:14 <andythenorth> Elukka: slowly 07:02:18 <andythenorth> and painfully 07:02:26 <Elukka> sounds familiar 07:02:34 <andythenorth> my advice: drop the vehicles, do a building set :/ 07:02:34 <Elukka> i wanted to try to make one car per day but couldn't 07:02:42 <andythenorth> buildings have one angle 07:03:09 <andythenorth> :P 07:03:21 <Elukka> okay so lessee 07:03:33 <Elukka> i started drawing sprites... a bit less than 2 weeks ago 07:03:37 <Elukka> and i have a grand total of 2 decent ones 07:03:43 <andythenorth> they look fine btw 07:03:51 <Elukka> thanks 07:05:50 <Elukka> i've mucked about drawing things but never really done pixel art before 07:09:12 <Terkhen> good morning 07:09:17 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-248-23.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:09:39 <Elukka> morning 07:18:03 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-235-224.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 07:20:50 <LordAro> mornings 07:22:42 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 07:23:29 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-052-080.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 07:28:38 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-029-201.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:29:02 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:37:15 <andythenorth> airports: annoyink 07:37:58 <planetmaker> moin 07:44:00 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:45:44 *** taede [~taede@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:46:43 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 07:46:46 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 07:47:11 * andythenorth needs more docks 07:47:35 <andythenorth> smaller catchment areas 07:47:41 <andythenorth> for delivering supplies to farms 07:48:47 <Elukka> andy, do you also have the thing with firs and yacd where if you, say, add a train to a route it'll be all messed up for something like a year, or even forever unless you make them skip an order? 07:49:05 <Elukka> like, i have a train going between two industries, add another, and now the old train refuses to load anything 07:49:06 <LordAro> andythenorth: do it yourself :P 07:49:32 <andythenorth> Elukka: that's a known issue with yacd I think 07:49:43 <Elukka> how do you deal with it? 07:49:43 <andythenorth> sometimes you have to make the train run the route end-to-end 07:49:48 <Elukka> ah 07:49:54 <andythenorth> so skip basically 07:50:26 <Elukka> asdfasdfasdfasdf 07:50:31 <Elukka> the palette doesn't have a dark enough green 07:50:36 <Elukka> now i have to make everything a step brighter 07:51:05 <Elukka> which looks too bright... 07:52:11 <planetmaker> use a brown instead of a dark green 07:52:21 <andythenorth> Elukka: if you want to achieve TTD style, there are two tricks you need to combine 07:52:28 <andythenorth> 1. the contrast is high 07:52:42 <andythenorth> 2. but where two high-contrast areas meet, you need to anti-alias 07:53:08 <planetmaker> 3. Look how Irwe or andythenorth draw their sprites 07:53:20 <Elukka> :D 07:54:51 <Elukka> doesn't look right to replace it with a brown 07:55:08 <planetmaker> Might happen. An olive? 07:55:45 <andythenorth> sometimes you need to use a colour that initial logic tells you is 'wrong' 07:56:03 <Elukka> better, but still obvious it's not the right color 07:56:12 <andythenorth> tbh, it's much easier if you use company colour :P 07:56:40 <Elukka> i could just color the dark side the same as the side view 07:56:44 <Elukka> think anyone will notice? :P 07:56:53 <andythenorth> probably not 07:57:05 <Elukka> best compromise i can think of 07:57:05 <andythenorth> which direction are you lighting from? 07:57:08 <Elukka> upper right 07:57:12 <andythenorth> wrong 07:57:16 <andythenorth> I'll save you time now 07:57:23 <Elukka> wut 07:57:24 <andythenorth> there are incorrect tutorials 07:57:35 <planetmaker> :-D 07:57:38 <Elukka> everything is from the upper right! 07:57:45 <andythenorth> lighting varies in original sprites, but average is about 5.30 on the clock face 07:57:47 <planetmaker> andy's light-direction quest? :-) 07:57:57 <andythenorth> "saving people pain" 07:57:57 <planetmaker> (he's right, though) 07:58:12 <andythenorth> if light was in the upper right, all angles would always be in shadow to the player 07:58:14 <andythenorth> that would suck 07:58:24 <Elukka> hmm yeah that's actually how i draw 07:58:26 <planetmaker> yeah 07:58:27 <Elukka> i mean 07:58:30 <Elukka> 5:30 07:58:36 <Elukka> i dunno why i said upper right 07:58:40 <andythenorth> he :) 07:59:48 <andythenorth> most of the palette has hues with light/dark ranges of about 8 07:59:57 <andythenorth> I'd pick near the middle for the _ view 08:00:03 <andythenorth> then go either side for \ / views 08:00:15 <Elukka> what i've been doing is- yeah exactly that 08:00:28 <andythenorth> in which case, I have no further advice :P 08:00:29 <Elukka> base color for the side view, one step lighter or darker for the diagonals 08:01:04 <andythenorth> it's worth getting the roof right, the roofs are prominent 08:01:12 <andythenorth> and when you have one, you can copy and paste it a lot 08:02:12 <Elukka> the roof's basically the same color in all directions, just the shading goes on the different edge on the other diagonal? 08:02:15 <Elukka> i butchered that sentence 08:02:45 <Elukka> i'm a fan of the almost flat prussian coach roofs, incidentally 08:07:50 * andythenorth bbl 08:07:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:07:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DDCD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:14:17 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.233.237.150] has joined #openttd 08:14:51 <Wolf01> hello 08:22:28 *** pjpe [ae5f4224@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 08:36:13 *** MercedesBenz [~IRChelper@95.52.225.1] has joined #openttd 08:37:41 *** zachanima [~zach@0x52b41806.static.bcbnet.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:37:57 *** zachanima [~zach@0x52b41806.static.bcbnet.dk] has joined #openttd 08:38:29 *** Diablo-D3 [~diablo@pool-70-16-75-198.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #openttd 08:40:40 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: do you know if those white fogged out windows are toilets, and if so should they only be on one side? 08:40:43 <Elukka> as in http://www.brawa.de/en/products/h0/wagons/passenger-coaches/25262-compartment-coach-abc4-kpev.html 08:40:47 <MercedesBenz> ÃóññêÚå åñòÌ? 08:42:50 <MercedesBenz> help me 08:43:00 <Elukka> erm, okay 08:43:03 <Elukka> how should we help you? 08:43:37 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 08:43:44 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-052-080.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 08:43:46 <MercedesBenz> I need a Russian version 08:43:57 <Elukka> hmm 08:44:02 <Elukka> i do think one exists, but i don't know much more about it 08:44:16 <Rubidium> Russian version of what? 08:44:19 <Diablo-D3> didnt there use to be some sort of grey mining pit industry? 08:44:57 <MercedesBenz> Russian version openttd 1.1.3 08:45:15 <Rubidium> MercedesBenz: just select the Russian translation in game 08:45:21 <Rubidium> in the game options 08:45:25 <Elukka> diablo, in the default industries? 08:45:30 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: no 08:45:36 <Diablo-D3> it was an addon, but I dont know who has it 08:45:40 <Elukka> FIRS? 08:45:49 <Diablo-D3> I havent checked firs yes 08:45:59 <Diablo-D3> also, why doesnt firs have a list of industries it has somewhere? 08:46:04 <Diablo-D3> like the big flowchart ecs has 08:46:13 <Elukka> http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/industries 08:46:19 <Elukka> because that's now in game :P 08:46:25 <MercedesBenz> error Open sfx 08:46:27 <Elukka> click the... was it industry chain button on any industry 08:46:44 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: yeah but like the flow chart ecs has pictures of industries and everything 08:47:22 <Diablo-D3> ... 08:47:23 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: wow 08:47:32 <Diablo-D3> that page was exactly what I wanted I think 08:48:23 <MercedesBenz> not start a game. error Open sfx 08:49:12 <Diablo-D3> MercedesBenz: you have to install opensfx first. 08:49:35 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: firs doesnt have it 08:49:39 <MercedesBenz> where to get? 08:49:40 <Rubidium> sounds like you copied an installation to another computer, but didn't completely copy it 08:49:51 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: its all gray, and is built into the side of a hill 08:50:00 <Elukka> ah, pikka bird's brick chain i believe 08:52:40 <Diablo-D3> http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=File:Quarry300.png 08:52:41 <Diablo-D3> THAT 08:52:51 <Diablo-D3> why does no one else use it? 08:53:45 <Elukka> wellll, i moved to firs 08:53:50 <Diablo-D3> its a really unique graphic, it should be retained 08:54:09 <Elukka> i like how it's built to a hill but i'm not sure the sprite fits the game that well 08:54:16 <MercedesBenz> how to install opensfx? 08:54:22 <Diablo-D3> MercedesBenz: read the website 08:54:24 <Yexo> MercedesBenz: are you using windows? 08:54:38 <MercedesBenz> windows xp 08:54:46 <Yexo> in that case: download the installer from http://www.openttd.org/en/download-stable and just tick the box to install opensfx 08:55:17 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: even if the sprite doesnt perfectly fit (lets face it, grfed up ottd is a mismatched set at best), no other industry looks like this 08:55:28 <Elukka> sure 08:55:53 <Diablo-D3> and industries should strive to be bigger 08:56:31 <Elukka> firs' seem good to me 08:56:32 <Elukka> in size 08:57:33 <Diablo-D3> I dunno, ottd industry size sorta feeds into the whole massive scale mismatch 08:58:28 <Elukka> how so? 08:58:48 <Diablo-D3> I dunno, I just want really gigantic trains to be usable and look correct in some semblance of a default ottd setup 08:59:03 <Diablo-D3> its not about realism, its just having gigantic trains is fun. 09:01:01 <peter1138> that graphic fits very well if you ask me 09:01:38 <Diablo-D3> yeah but like, put a 28 tile train anywhere near an industry 09:01:51 <Diablo-D3> it completely dwarfs the industry 09:01:53 <Elukka> i think there's something about the style of the rock 09:02:07 <MercedesBenz> I downloaded: opengfx-0.3.5-all.zip, openmsx-0.3.1-all.zip, opensfx-0.2.3-all.zip. How do I install them? 09:02:07 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:02:11 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:02:13 <Elukka> it looks like it'd be more at home with 32bpp graphics (which is actually somewhat of an achievement to manage using 8bpp) 09:02:30 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: still, I'd like to see it in firs just due to its uniqueness 09:02:35 <Diablo-D3> too many industries look like buildings 09:05:17 <MercedesBenz> Yexo, I downloaded: opengfx-0.3.5-all.zip, openmsx-0.3.1-all.zip, opensfx-0.2.3-all.zip. How do I install them? 09:05:52 <Yexo> search for "openttd.cfg", that is the configuration file 09:06:08 <Yexo> (most likely it's in "My Documents\OpenTTD" 09:07:42 <Yexo> in that directory should also be a data\ directory, extract opengfx and opensfx there. Extract openmsc in the gm\ directory 09:14:31 <MercedesBenz> Yexo, Thank you! works 09:15:59 *** taede [~taede@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:21:07 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 09:24:00 <MercedesBenz> saved game to version 1.0.0 can be opened in version 1.1.3? 09:24:09 <Yexo> yes 09:26:15 *** TWerkhoven [~taede@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:26:54 * Diablo-D3 tries 2cc, av8, egrvts, firs, fish, heqs, industrial stations renewal, long vehicles, nutracks, smooth snow transition, snow aware arctic buildings, snow line mod, total town replacement, total bridge renewal set, and bigger train depot 09:28:09 <peter1138> just add everything 09:34:29 <MercedesBenz> does not appear in the saved version 1.0.1 version 1.1.3 09:34:48 <MercedesBenz> can not open in the saved version 1.0.1 version 1.1.3 09:36:26 <MercedesBenz> help me 09:36:30 <Terkhen> MercedesBenz: no 09:36:54 <Terkhen> a savegame can be only opened by an equal or newer major version 09:37:09 <Terkhen> you can open 1.0.x savegames with 1.0.x and 1.1.x, but not the other way around 09:38:09 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 09:38:23 <Yexo> MercedesBenz: if you downloaded openttd from another side than openttd.org your "version 1.0.1" was maybe not the officail 1.0.1 but a modified version 09:38:36 <Yexo> in that case you won't be able to open your savegames with any other than the original version 09:39:11 <MercedesBenz> why 09:39:24 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: "- Add basic tiles for FIRS Clay Pit and Quarry (unfinished, not happy with graphics)" 09:39:29 <MercedesBenz> What to do? 09:39:29 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: from CHIPS changelog 09:39:38 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: is FIRS adding it? 09:39:49 <Elukka> i don't think so? 09:39:52 <Yexo> MercedesBenz: start a new game in 1.1.3 or find the original version you used and keep playing with that 09:40:28 <Elukka> that just means CHIPS added station tiles corresponding to FIRS quarry graphics 09:40:47 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but firs clay pit? 09:40:50 <Diablo-D3> when did it get a clay pit? 09:40:56 *** erik1984 [~erik1984@vhe-490300.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 09:41:14 <Alberth> ages ago afaik 09:41:21 <Diablo-D3> oh 09:41:23 <Diablo-D3> it looks like the sand pit 09:41:24 <Diablo-D3> meh 09:41:29 <Diablo-D3> all lies :< 09:41:31 <Terkhen> check the changelog 09:42:50 <Alberth> a sand mine does look a lot like a clay mine as well :p 09:43:10 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but I want that graphic from pikka bricks 09:43:15 <Diablo-D3> its not fair 09:44:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.178.52] has joined #openttd 09:45:15 <Alberth> so make your own industry set 09:45:33 <Diablo-D3> argh no 09:48:24 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has joined #openttd 09:48:26 * Alberth is very much not impressed 09:49:36 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DDCD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:50:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.163.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:50:57 <Diablo-D3> although I wonder how hard it is to add more industries to firs through another grf 09:50:59 <Diablo-D3> its probably a bad idea 09:52:16 <MercedesBenz> this error: NOT_REACHED triggered at line 1453 of .. \ src \ strings.cpp 09:52:38 <Alberth> Diablo-D3: you run out of cargo types 09:53:20 <Elukka> diablo, i feel that your desire for huge industries and a huge amount of industry types would result in a game where half of all terrain is industries :P 09:53:47 <Alberth> it already is, try dense industries :p 09:54:10 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: Yes. 09:54:15 <Diablo-D3> I see no problem with this. 09:54:18 <Yexo> MercedesBenz: when did that happen? 09:55:09 <MercedesBenz> Yexo, when load saved to another version 09:56:26 <MercedesBenz> there is a file: Crash 09:57:03 <Yexo> please open a bug report at bugs.openttd.org and upload crash.cmp, crash.sav, crash.log there. Don't forget to also include your original savegame 09:57:46 <Alberth> Looks like a missing case in GetSpecialNameString, although the line number is not correct w.r.t current trunk 09:58:01 <Yexo> Alberth: that's indeed the line 09:58:07 <Yexo> line number is correct for 1.1.3 10:00:24 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: well, its either that, or we can use REALLY TINY TRAINS 10:00:37 <Diablo-D3> use like ultra tiny cars that are really bunches of cars 10:00:46 <Diablo-D3> so you buy 3 or 5 or whatever at a time 10:02:09 <Diablo-D3> actually you know 10:02:13 <Diablo-D3> thats not that bad of an idea 10:02:22 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:09:11 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:12:31 <Eddi|zuHause> <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: do you know if those white fogged out windows are toilets, and if so should they only be on one side? <-- i believe compartment coaches had toilets on both sides (one for each adjacent compartment) 10:12:49 <Elukka> alright 10:13:45 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 10:16:35 <erik1984> Hi openttd people. Is anyone of you also playing ottd on Ubuntu 11.04? 10:18:16 <Alberth> I am not, but why is that special? 10:18:25 <Alberth> ie just ask what you want to know 10:18:28 <LordAro> erik1984: i am 10:18:35 <Alberth> hi LordAro! 10:18:36 <LordAro> hi Alberth 10:19:22 <Alberth> LordAro: using a somewhat saner development platform now? 10:20:36 <Diablo-D3> erik1984: no, Im on deb sid 10:20:39 <LordAro> i always use ubuntu for developing, just that i usually have to communicate through windows 10:20:50 <LordAro> but not atm :) 10:21:16 <Alberth> I thought you used mingW stuff, but luckily you don't 10:21:17 <Rubidium> Alberth: pff... you needs lots of power for development, so what is better than Debian on a s390 mainframe for development? 10:21:46 <Alberth> Rubidium: not much, but my basement is not so big :) 10:22:10 <Diablo-D3> hrm 10:22:16 <Alberth> idea for our new compile farm? 10:22:18 <Diablo-D3> Yexo, Elukka: I just had a funny idea 10:22:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: here's a view of a similar wagon from the other side: http://album.tt-pics.de/data/media/23/ABC-klein.jpg 10:22:44 <LordAro> Alberth: if i am stuck on windoze, i do (if i have to) use mingw - but for aroai stuff, not the more complex ottd stuff 10:22:55 <Diablo-D3> Yexo, Elukka: you build stations, and they automatically expand new non-track tiles as the station grows 10:24:11 <Alberth> LordAro: ah, you're an expert at noth systems thus :p 10:24:16 <Alberth> *both 10:24:22 <Elukka> damn, i have too much brown on the 2nd/3rd class variant 10:24:35 <Elukka> or did that vary too :P 10:25:04 <Diablo-D3> Yexo, Elukka: so like you have a pax rail station, and then it starts building those fake parking lot tiles and stuff 10:25:46 <LordAro> Alberth: pfft... 10:25:47 <LordAro> :) 10:26:01 <Elukka> seems to me like it'd be difficult to code a system where it builds those in a pattern that looks good in every situation 10:26:41 <Alberth> Diablo-D3: it's normally not useful to spam other people with your ideas, they will not jump on it and implement it for you 10:27:04 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: maybe, but it'd be interesting to have automatic crawl 10:27:38 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: it'd be easier if we had >1x1 train tiles 10:27:51 <Diablo-D3> so you could plop down a large building that is part of the station 10:28:00 <Alberth> lol 10:28:31 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: like, in the pax idea, a parking garage. 10:29:41 <Alberth> when at first it does not work, add another layer of complexity :) 10:30:01 <Diablo-D3> its not really that complex 10:30:07 <Diablo-D3> the game already has multitile buildings 10:30:13 <Alberth> so prove it 10:30:51 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-72-134.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 10:30:56 <Alberth> general ideas and visions are trivial. Making it really work is the challenge 10:32:11 <Diablo-D3> Alberth: I'll tell you what I tell every other project that tries to recruit me 10:32:16 <Diablo-D3> I cant be everywhere at once. 10:32:28 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:32:50 <Diablo-D3> and honestly openttd is too political to delve into 10:34:38 <LordAro> Alberth: i believe the readme patch is 'ready', should i make a flyspray entry for it? 10:35:39 <erik1984> LordAro: You are using the Unity inteface? I'm asking because the window behaviour of openttd is a bit strange. if it runs in a small (not maximised) Window everything is fine. But when maximizing there is a second window title bar while it should integrate with the top panel like other applications. 10:35:59 <Alberth> Diablo-D3: I am not trying to recruit you, but talking "oh this is nice, and it is easy to implement" is just bullshit. So either prove it is easy, or stop dumping random ideas 10:36:16 <Alberth> LordAro: sounds like a good plan to me 10:37:26 <Rubidium> erik1984: if OpenTTD misbehaves with its title bar, then it's rather SDL that is misbehaving 10:38:17 <LordAro> erik1984: afraid not, my computer isn't powerful enough :) 10:38:26 <LordAro> Alberth: great! doing so now 10:39:21 <LordAro> actually, there is still the TrimWhitespace() function that needs dealing with - it actually only checks the beginning and end of the char, not each individual line 10:40:25 <Alberth> I still believe it is not needed :) Me or another dev will look into it 10:40:46 <Elukka> doesn't openttd's license allow one to make their own branch and disregard the 'politics' and visions of current devs 10:41:05 <erik1984> Rubudium: I'll check if it's a common SDL issue, thanks. 10:42:16 *** macee [~macee@dsl54026C6E.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 10:42:45 <Alberth> Elukka: sure it does. Also, I don't understand what politics we are doing other than having a vision about the project, just like any project 10:43:08 <Elukka> yeah, so diablo, you're free to code whatever 10:43:51 <Rubidium> most people with a "huge" vision claim to do lots of stuff, but eventually nothing happens 10:43:51 <Alberth> and you are free to use the tt-forums.net forums, and a copy of our sources for it. Several people do that, look in the development forum 10:44:16 <Rubidium> otherwise there would've been at least a C# and Java implementation of OpenTTD for years 10:44:35 <Alberth> and several 3D version of openttd :) 10:44:51 <Rubidium> and 32 bits graphics 10:44:55 <Alberth> and multi-core 10:45:26 <Rubidium> a better (ship) pathfinder 10:45:35 <Rubidium> better landscapes 10:46:17 <Alberth> oh, the large document by Sir Xavius :) 10:49:26 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean OpenTTD 500+? 10:51:08 <Alberth> I don't remember the name, but could be 10:51:54 <Alberth> would be nice as a climate 10:55:32 <Yexo> erik1984: I can confirm your problem with the menu bar, but I haven't yet looked into what could be causing it nor do I know if there is a solution 10:58:08 <Eddi|zuHause> http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/9362/zug07.jpg <-- openttd should look like this :p 10:59:25 <V453000> cute train :) 10:59:32 <peter1138> second window title bar? that sounds like absolutely nothing that ottd can control 10:59:49 *** MercedesBenz [~IRChelper@95.52.225.1] has quit [Quit: Ãåñïëà òÃûé ñûð ïîëó÷à åò òîëÌêî âòîðà ÿ ìûÞêà ...] 10:59:55 <LordAro> Alberth: flyspray task is up 11:00:14 <Alberth> ok, thanks 11:01:15 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: looks like openlomo :p 11:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: as far as i understand it, those are models for some flight simulator 11:02:10 <Alberth> trains also fly :) 11:02:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: only if you misuse the term "in die Luft fliegen" :) 11:02:52 <Alberth> quite detailed for a flight simulator though 11:06:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: a mail wagon would be useful as well: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4186QXETD9L._SS500_.jpg 11:07:42 <Elukka> hm. that looks just like the passenger one except it has less windows 11:08:01 <Elukka> and the roof ridge is higher but i'm not sure how visible that'd be 11:08:59 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 11:09:35 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: model railways? nice pictures 11:09:43 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:11:11 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 11:11:16 <Elukka> did the other variants 11:11:17 <Elukka> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/1918/pr_4_abteilwagen_2kl_10lu.png 11:11:19 <Elukka> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/1917/pr_4_abteilwagen_2-3kl_10lu.png 11:11:33 <Elukka> always liked the brown/green color scheme 11:11:51 *** TramOfDeath [1fb5d759@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 11:13:47 <Eddi|zuHause> the white toilet windows should only be 1 pixel, also they should be in the middle of the brown section 11:14:45 <Elukka> guess i could change that 11:15:04 <Elukka> will end up with 1 px wide normal windows though 11:15:15 <Elukka> along with the 2 px ones 11:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause> if you can manage this: 1px window, 1px door, 1px window, 1px green 11:15:41 *** TramOfDeath [1fb5d759@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 11:16:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (=4px for one compartment) 11:18:14 <Elukka> i think the 2x2 px windows stand for both the door window and the two small side ones 11:18:25 <Elukka> with 1 px windows there's either way too many compartments or the windows are too sparse 11:21:49 <Elukka> hm. i think 1 px toilets do look better, it's not really that noticeable that there's a 1 px normal window next to it 11:26:17 <peter1138> why so much excess blue? 11:27:30 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: since technically on the diagonals the toilets would now be half a pixel, do you think it'd be a good idea to sort of blend them in and make them a lighter blue instead of white? 11:28:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: possibly, but relatively bright 11:35:44 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/4abteilwagen.png 11:35:45 <Elukka> better? 11:39:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but the 3rd class toilets should still be in the middle of the brown section 11:39:32 <Eddi|zuHause> the blending works well 11:45:03 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:41b7:3a83:92da:4867] has joined #openttd 11:45:07 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 11:45:20 <Elukka> hmm yeah gonna move them around 11:46:20 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-235-224.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:49:58 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... university seems to have some computer troubles... 11:53:16 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has joined #openttd 11:53:27 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/4abteilwagen2.png 11:55:20 *** perk111 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has joined #openttd 11:59:04 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d0822ee.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:00:22 <appe> bah, clicking links in this channel.. 12:00:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:01:22 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:02:56 *** sla_ro|vista [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 12:06:01 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:11:37 <andythenorth> buenos dios 12:13:16 <Rubidium> ohaj 12:14:15 *** perk111 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 12:14:27 <Elukka> mm, food. 12:16:36 <andythenorth> so 12:16:58 <andythenorth> with a truck set, is it necessary to have a progression of ever more powerful, faster truck *models* ? 12:17:26 <andythenorth> for fun gameplay? 12:18:30 <Elukka> you mean do they have to get better with time? 12:19:01 <Rubidium> andythenorth: slower but more reliable might make sense, wouldn't it? 12:19:13 <andythenorth> maybe 12:19:28 <andythenorth> mostly trucks are mostly the same 12:19:31 <andythenorth> just faster 12:19:39 <andythenorth> even capacities haven't changed that much - except by law 12:20:00 <andythenorth> by 'faster' I mean 'more able to maintain legal maximum speed due to more hp' 12:26:13 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 12:26:20 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:28:32 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-2-96-17-168.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 12:36:48 <MNIM> I would argue they'd be maximizing the hauling ability : running costs ratio 12:37:23 <MNIM> EG - same capacity at the limit, same speed and comparable HP but lower running costs. 12:37:24 <appe> isnt there a running costs ratio? 12:38:15 <Elukka> unfortunately in OTTD that's less vital 12:38:35 <Elukka> real companies never reach the point where they have essentially infinite cash and a company can crash no matter how large it is 12:38:40 <appe> actually, i have a rather silly complaint 12:38:53 <appe> it does feel trucks and busses doesnt really get any attention 12:39:12 <appe> poor things 12:40:22 <Elukka> yeah! :( 12:40:34 <Elukka> well, with YACD or cargodist busses are vital 12:41:09 <Elukka> and 2cc or another high running costs train set provides a niche for LV4 trucks since they're rather good 12:41:23 <Elukka> though i do wish there was an alternative set with similar capabilities 12:41:29 <appe> :) 12:41:34 <Elukka> nothing wrong with LV4 but variety is always good 12:41:58 <Elukka> andythenorth: are you making a road vehicle set besides HEQS? :P 12:42:09 <andythenorth> Elukka: no but maybe 12:42:22 <Elukka> you should! 12:42:33 <andythenorth> I want a good plan before I start 12:42:37 <andythenorth> currently I don't have the plan 12:43:30 <Elukka> i suggest running cost parameters 12:43:37 <Elukka> actually i suggest those for HEQS too 12:43:42 <Elukka> or does it have one already? 12:43:51 <andythenorth> HEQS has them 12:44:04 <andythenorth> they're not a great idea 12:44:11 <andythenorth> but they're the best we can do currently :( 12:44:36 <Elukka> road vehicle balance is so dependent on the balancing of whatever train set you happen to be using 12:44:41 <andythenorth> Terkhen: how far did you get with rv-wagons? Did you find the scope of the work to be done? 12:49:11 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: i think the windows in your modification look triangular, as if narrowing upwards 12:49:20 <Elukka> at game scales 12:51:27 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly, i'm not that big of an artist 12:56:17 <Elukka> the general texturing i tried to make consistent with the grey coach (based on oberhÃŒmer's modification), since the details are basically similar 12:57:12 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 12:57:28 * andythenorth ponders patching docks for smaller catchments 12:57:51 * peter1138 ponders patching docks for multistop 12:58:09 * Eddi|zuHause ponders not patching anything 12:58:10 <andythenorth> I thought we didn't discuss that anymore :o 12:58:18 <andythenorth> you patch it, I'll test 12:58:23 <andythenorth> goes for Eddi|zuHause too 12:58:29 <Elukka> gonna change the toilets on all the variants anyway 12:58:33 <andythenorth> if you don't patch, I won't test 12:59:01 <andythenorth> I have three adjacent farms, I need to deliver supplies by ship 12:59:20 <andythenorth> any dock on this peninsula will cover all of them :/ 12:59:30 <andythenorth> this is no good 13:00:28 <Eddi|zuHause> it's always delivered to the one closest to the station sign 13:00:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so it doesn't matter if they overlap 13:00:58 <andythenorth> okey dokey 13:01:58 <andythenorth> :) 13:04:41 <Elukka> due to all the variants this file now has 12 layers :P 13:06:21 <MNIM> http://www.flickr.com/photos/piscesromance/1483142063/lightbox/ 13:06:39 <MNIM> holy... apparently these bad boys do 130kmh D: 13:06:56 <Elukka> D: 13:07:55 * MNIM demands this be made in ottd nao. >> 13:07:57 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: it's not really a problem of getting things up to that speed. usually laws prevent you from going that fast, because in "normal" traffic you can't brake fast enough 13:08:29 <Elukka> http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5030/5799395968_28ec28e4bd_b.jpg 13:08:34 <Elukka> unrelated interesting locomotive 13:09:17 <MNIM> braking ain't the problem. enough wheels on the tarmac 13:09:57 <Eddi|zuHause> in case you have missed the physics lesson on friction: the amound of wheels is irrelevant for braking 13:10:37 <MNIM> Im not talking about friction. 13:11:04 <MNIM> Im talking about the fact that /each/ and /every/ wheel has brakes 13:11:28 <MNIM> and those brakes together absorb just as much energy per ton as an ordinary truck 13:11:45 <MNIM> it's the part where you have only one engine that is the kicker 13:11:53 <Alberth> and we say we don't waste energy and care for the environment :p 13:12:42 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: so then, please explain to me why an ICE3 train takes 4km to brake, even though it has so many wheels? 13:13:01 <MNIM> because it's not moving a hundred, it's mocing 200+ 13:13:27 <peter1138> also metal-on-metal 13:13:32 <MNIM> and steel wheels on steel tracks provide less friction than rubber on asphalt, thus the brakes can absorb less 13:13:44 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: even at 100km/h, an ICE3 train doesn't take <100m to brake 13:14:39 <MNIM> as peter and I said, steel on steel 13:14:41 <Elukka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YIqk_tMa8M 13:14:42 <Elukka> metal on metal! 13:14:50 <MNIM> also, less wheels per ton 13:14:51 <Markk> Magnetic rail brakes can be used as well. 13:15:39 <MNIM> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJN9pOuT_Gg 13:15:42 <MNIM> steel meets steel! 13:15:43 <Hinrik> it's a shame that almost every openttd video on youtube uses pop music instead of the awesome game music 13:16:10 <andythenorth> is braking effort effectively the inverse of tractive effort? 13:16:20 <Elukka> i like my link better :P 13:16:23 <andythenorth> inverse isn't the word I want :P 13:16:59 <peter1138> is braking effort still related to engine power in ottd? :s 13:16:59 <Elukka> also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcCubJEGRUU 13:18:41 <andythenorth> braking is a factor of adhesion? 13:18:59 <andythenorth> and adhesion is a factor of weight and coeffecient of friction? 13:21:19 <peter1138> you want a new newgrf property? 13:22:35 <Elukka> it'd be cool if trains had to brake before a station or stop rather than pretty much stopping instantly 13:23:24 <Pinkbeast> Errr trains do brake slowly at stations 13:23:58 <andythenorth> I don't want a new newgrf property 13:24:02 <andythenorth> I want a physics lesson :) 13:24:43 <andythenorth> I want multistop docks 13:24:45 <andythenorth> and a pony 13:24:53 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> is braking effort effectively the inverse of tractive effort? <-- difference is that even unpowered wagons may be braked 13:24:59 <andythenorth> ah 13:25:05 <andythenorth> also. multi-stop docks will really break my play style 13:25:08 <andythenorth> which will be interesting 13:25:30 <Pinkbeast> Braking might or might not be limited by adhesion - it is on trains, not (for example) on bicycles on tarmac 13:25:45 <andythenorth> orly? 13:26:12 <Pinkbeast> Sure - you'll lift the back wheel on a bike before the front wheel skids, if you've got a normal tyre. 13:26:22 <Pinkbeast> So braking's limited by that. 13:26:29 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pameladrew/6157505639 <- this is cool :p 13:26:30 <andythenorth> hmm 13:26:34 <andythenorth> isn't that adhesion? 13:26:59 <Pinkbeast> No. There _is_ an adhesion limit, the point at which the front tyre would skid - but you can't get there. 13:27:17 <Elukka> that truck doesn't look very inconspicuous :P 13:27:34 <peter1138> you tend to end up sideways before that 13:29:17 <Pinkbeast> andy> I would describe that limit as being based on geometry, inasmuch as the limit is a function of the angle described by the triangle made up of a line between the CoG and the front contact patch, and a line made up of the ground. 13:29:52 <Pinkbeast> This is what made penny-farthings dangerous - that angle's large, because the CoG is practically above the contact patch, and so you can't brake much at all without taking a "header". 13:30:00 <andythenorth> the question is one of which direction your moment is going 13:30:02 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: lol, 'top secret' :D 13:30:16 <andythenorth> so you basically have a moment about the front wheel 13:30:38 <Pinkbeast> But it's not adhesion-based - a "stickier" front tyre would not alter this limit at all 13:30:47 <peter1138> i got to svn update 13:30:53 <peter1138> now i can't be bothered :S 13:31:02 <andythenorth> Pinkbeast: yes and no 13:31:11 <Alberth> peter1138: write a script :) 13:31:20 <peter1138> to code for me? 13:31:25 <Pinkbeast> How, no? 13:31:37 <Alberth> to svn update for you :) 13:31:39 <andythenorth> depends whether you want to consider the rear wheel 13:31:52 <peter1138> don't need help with that. i'm not bjarni :) 13:31:53 <andythenorth> during braking you lose adhesion on the rear wheel due to weight transfer 13:32:02 <Pinkbeast> You don't have to consider the rear wheel at all because in a maximum effort emergency stop it's totally unloaded and the rear brake is useless. 13:32:18 <andythenorth> not on my bike 13:32:42 <Pinkbeast> Yes, on your bike - because in an emergency stop you are _at_ that point where the rear wheel is about to lift. 13:32:53 <andythenorth> nah 13:33:00 <andythenorth> mine goes sideways in that situation 13:33:11 <Pinkbeast> That's because you use the rear brake, I guess? 13:33:13 <Terkhen> andythenorth: not very far 13:33:23 <andythenorth> there's usually about 10kgs unevenly loaded in one rear pannier, low down 13:33:24 <Terkhen> I have some further unifications to test 13:33:25 <Pinkbeast> Then the limiting factor is rider braking skill, not adhesion. 13:33:37 <Terkhen> but that's not "real" work towards rv-wagons 13:34:12 <Alberth> Pinkbeast: only if adhesion is strong enough imo. Consider a very slippery front-wheel, then I'd brake with my rear wheel 13:34:15 <andythenorth> Pinkbeast: the weight over the rear wheel prevents a lot of the lift, but the rear wheel still breks loose 13:34:20 <andythenorth> breks / breaks 13:34:29 <Pinkbeast> 10kg is not so much; it's 10% of the bike-rider system. 13:34:52 <andythenorth> and the weight being on one side causes an offset, so I end up going sideways 13:34:56 <Pinkbeast> Alberth> Yes - adhesion can lower until it's the limit, but on a normal bike on normal road it isn't. 13:35:04 <andythenorth> I've crashed my bike, I know how it plays out :P 13:35:18 <Alberth> Pinkbeast: my normal bike doesn't have front brakes :p 13:35:26 <Eddi|zuHause> any sane person brakes his bike on the rear wheel 13:35:53 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you want to meet the pavement 13:35:56 <Pinkbeast> Eddi> No, because in an emergency you can only get maximum braking with the front brake, didn't we just go through all this? 13:36:31 <Hinrik> where does openttd download the newgrf content from? 13:36:38 <Pinkbeast> Bananas 13:36:39 <MNIM> In general you want brakes on both wheels 13:36:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Hinrik: http://binaries.openttd.org/bananas 13:37:08 <andythenorth> in general, you crash 13:37:11 <andythenorth> is my experience 13:37:12 <MNIM> because, if properly used, each amplifies the braking effect of the other 13:37:20 <Pinkbeast> http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html 13:37:42 <Pinkbeast> MNIM> What exactly does the rear brake do at the point you are braking so hard the rear wheel is unloaded? 13:37:49 <andythenorth> at the point where you need the full breaking power of rubber on dry tarmac, you're going to crash 13:37:55 <andythenorth> braking 13:37:55 <Terkhen> Hinrik: http://binaries.openttd.org/bananas 13:38:17 <Hinrik> MNIM has got his physics wrong 13:38:23 <MNIM> pink: that's exactly what I mean when I say /when properly used/ 13:38:36 <MNIM> EG - without lifting your rear wheel 13:39:12 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: from testing your patch, playing a game at 0.5x normal year progression *is* better 13:39:28 <andythenorth> I avoid the word 'daylength' :P 13:39:45 <Pinkbeast> MNIM> The load on the rear wheel decreases directly with deceleration. So if the rear wheel still has load on it, you're not decelerating as hard as possible. 13:39:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i typically use daylength 4 or 8 13:39:51 <Hinrik> if you're in a position where you can safely use the front brake, there's no point in using less and adding a little rear braking to compensate 13:39:54 <Pinkbeast> So, no, this is not "properly used" in an emergency. 13:40:09 <peter1138> generally my brakes aren't good enough to lift the rear wheel 13:40:12 <MNIM> pinkbeast: now that's where people are wrong 13:40:18 <peter1138> but... i'm kinda heavy and i have stuff in panniers 13:40:20 <Alberth> MNIM: unfortunately lifting back wheels happens all by itself if you break on wheels before it 13:40:26 <MNIM> it's not wise to max out on braking 13:40:32 <Pinkbeast> peter> Well, there's another non-adhesion based braking limit. 13:41:28 <Pinkbeast> MNIM> Wisdom isn't the issue, fortunately - the question is, is the limit on braking based on adhesion, and wise or not, at the limit the rear wheel isn't in play. 13:41:44 <andythenorth> Pinkbeast is right, assuming by 'emergency' he means 'lock the wheel', and on dry tarmac 13:41:55 <andythenorth> rubber has a very high c/f on dry tarmac 13:42:37 <andythenorth> so you basically get either a pivot about the front wheel of the whole bike, or the bike stays down and you go over the bars 13:42:46 <Pinkbeast> By "emergency" I mean "I want to stop as fast as possible without having a prang" 13:42:50 <Alberth> why doesn't that work with the rearbrake equally well then, if you don't brake on the front? 13:42:51 <MNIM> generally, to achieve maximum braking power on a straight line on the dry black, you'll use your front wheel with a slight bit of control breaking on the back, and, most importantly, with your ass over your rear wheels 13:42:54 <Eddi|zuHause> at the point where you lock the wheel on the tarmac, you have no choice other than falling over... 13:43:11 <MNIM> rear wheel, singular, that is 13:43:36 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: hopefully after coming to a stop :) 13:43:47 <Hinrik> Alberth: the rear brake only has half the stopping power of the front brake 13:43:49 <MNIM> and, to avoid faceplanting the asphalt, here's the kicker: 13:43:51 <MNIM> experience 13:44:03 <Hinrik> Alberth: until the wheel starts skidding 13:44:21 <andythenorth> why are we discussing this? :P there are no bikes in ttd :P 13:44:27 <Hinrik> not yet! 13:44:33 <Eddi|zuHause> YET!! 13:44:39 <MNIM> only experience can teach you to apply the correct dosage to both wheels separately while shifting your CG backwards 13:44:54 <andythenorth> bbl 13:44:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:45:07 <Pinkbeast> andy> Well, there are pretty few vehicles whose braking isn't limited by adhesion at all and bikes sprang to mind... oh, and he's gone 13:46:25 <Pinkbeast> Anyway, I must cycle to the pub, hopefully without doing any practical testing of the discussion 13:46:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the only place where adhesion doesn't have an influence on braking is a sail ship 13:47:26 <MNIM> you're forgetting any other vehicle without contact to a solid surface :P 13:48:38 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/mail.png 13:48:44 <Elukka> eddi: first draft of mail coach 13:50:26 <Diablo-D3> hey guys 13:50:32 <Diablo-D3> in industrial stations renewal 13:50:50 <Diablo-D3> what are the road vehicle fixtures for? 13:51:04 <V453000> try? 13:51:05 <V453000> ... 13:55:57 <Diablo-D3> V453000: no I mean 13:56:01 <Diablo-D3> what triggers them to do something 13:56:10 <Diablo-D3> obviously my own vehicles cant drive on them 13:56:34 <Eddi|zuHause> they don't do anything, they're eyecandy 13:56:43 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: yeah I get that, but what cargo do they trip on? 13:56:59 <Diablo-D3> like the truck parking one has trucks parked in it, but when I place it its blank 13:57:15 <Diablo-D3> well not blank blank, its just an empty parking lot 13:57:21 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, never used it 13:57:33 <MNIM> first you'll need to have cargos loaded/unloaded at the station 13:57:58 <MNIM> Ive seen 'em work on ECS cargoes, at least 13:58:07 <Diablo-D3> ahh its a pax station 13:58:13 <MNIM> yeap. 13:58:35 <MNIM> if you want something animated at a pax station, you'll want the canadian stations set! 13:58:40 <MNIM> if only for the parking spots 13:58:49 <Diablo-D3> heh 13:58:51 <Eddi|zuHause> industrial stations reacting on passengers would be slightly silly 13:58:59 <Diablo-D3> well 13:59:02 <Diablo-D3> theres a cars parking lot too 13:59:11 <MNIM> they are full of cars depending on the number of passengers there are 13:59:14 <Diablo-D3> which looks like it should be paxable 13:59:45 <MNIM> the carpark in industrial replacement stations isn't for pax: it's for the vehicles factory 14:00:05 <Diablo-D3> ahh 14:00:29 <Diablo-D3> so is the canadian stations set the pax equiv to industrial stations? 14:00:33 <MNIM> you'll want to have some industry set like FIRS/ECS that has something lice a vehicle factory to see that 14:00:36 <MNIM> nope 14:00:45 <Diablo-D3> is there a counterpart at all? 14:00:55 <Eddi|zuHause> no 14:00:58 <MNIM> nah, not like that 14:01:00 * Diablo-D3 has a sad :< 14:01:05 <Eddi|zuHause> there are several passenger station sets 14:01:09 <Eddi|zuHause> japanese 14:01:12 <MNIM> canadian 14:01:14 <Eddi|zuHause> NewStations 14:01:17 <MNIM> north american 14:01:19 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: yeah but none of them seem to really have much interesting stuff 14:01:23 <Diablo-D3> its all just new station art 14:01:35 <MNIM> dutch stations, though personally I don't like that one (even though Im dutch) 14:01:58 <Eddi|zuHause> czech stations 14:02:01 <MNIM> well, at least the canadian stations set has a pretty carpark 14:03:13 <MNIM> also, most stationsets have separate station buildings which look pretty 14:03:30 *** MercedesBenz [~IRChelper@95.52.225.1] has joined #openttd 14:04:25 <MNIM> http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/OTTD/Black%20and%20Co%20-%2029th%20Jan%201900.png 14:04:31 <MNIM> look at this, for example. 14:05:13 <MercedesBenz> how to set in full screen mode, different screen resolution? 14:05:24 <Diablo-D3> MercedesBenz: settings. 14:05:29 <Eddi|zuHause> game settings window 14:05:30 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:05:44 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: hrm, total town renewal at least 14:05:47 <MNIM> that's japanese stationset platforms, canadian set station building and car parks 14:05:56 <MNIM> and yes, that's also TTRS 14:06:21 <MNIM> it's a less successful version of my current alpine map, actually (this version kept crashing) 14:06:56 <MercedesBenz> I need to 1024x768, not in the list of such 14:07:01 <Diablo-D3> Ill have to throw the canadian station set in to my list next time 14:07:06 <Diablo-D3> MercedesBenz: yes it is, Im looking right at it 14:07:49 <MercedesBenz> ? 14:08:21 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: Im currently using 2cc, av8, chips, egrvts, firs, fish, heqs, isr, lv4, ntracks, three snow mods, ttrs, and tbrs 14:08:35 <Diablo-D3> and hover bus 14:09:14 <MNIM> Id say skip the snow mods and use opengfx+ terrain instead next time 14:09:40 <MNIM> unless you want to use grassyknolls (opengfx+ terrain overrides grassyknolls, apparently) 14:09:56 <Diablo-D3> well Im using smooth snow transition, snow aware artic buldings, and snow line mod 14:10:02 <MNIM> the rest is pretty much the same as Im using 14:10:32 <Diablo-D3> so unless opengfx+ terrain makes the snow line go up and down as the season changes, or fades snow to grass, not seeing the point 14:10:49 <Alberth> MercedesBenz: afaik that list is pulled from the operating system, so if your hardware does not support it, it is not shown 14:11:27 <Alberth> or perhaps you can change the screen setting in your OS ? 14:11:49 <MNIM> Diablo-D3: that's what it does 14:12:25 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: it does both? 14:12:32 <MNIM> yeap 14:12:39 <Diablo-D3> well thats two mods I can cross off 14:12:53 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-047-133.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 14:13:05 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: so whats on your list thats not on mine or vice versa? 14:13:10 <Diablo-D3> besides the stations 14:13:20 <Diablo-D3> like any interesting train grfs? 14:13:30 <MNIM> only use 2CC, actually 14:13:44 <MNIM> anyway, lemme open my most recent game and pull that list 14:14:26 *** MercedesBens [~IRChelper@95.52.225.1] has joined #openttd 14:14:35 <MercedesBens> I do not understand 14:15:35 <Alberth> OpenTTD can only use resolutions that your hardware knows 14:15:50 *** MercedesBenz [~IRChelper@95.52.225.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:16:15 <Alberth> (and your video driver, of course) 14:17:03 <MNIM> wait a sec, Im editing my screenshot and uploading 14:18:47 <MercedesBens> I now have resolution 1024x768, but when I click on the "Full Screen", the resolution is changed to another. how do I change it 14:20:24 <Rubidium> if that happens, then Windows tells OpenTTD that Windows cannot change the display's resolution to 1024x768. In that case OpenTTD falls back to the current desktop resolution. 14:20:46 <MNIM> http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/OTTD/Screenshot%2814%29.png 14:20:57 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: its kind of nonobvious how to use tbrs with ttrs... you have to tell ttrs not use any of its own infrastructure apparently 14:21:07 <MNIM> though, for some reason, the town names sets don't work 14:21:28 <Rubidium> where and why Windows decides that said resolution is unavailable is beyond me, but Windows (or the video driver) makes the decision 14:21:43 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: pretty sure the town names sets override each other 14:21:49 <Alberth> MercedesBens: that's 1,680px à 1,050px here 14:22:05 <MNIM> ah. well, not a single one of those works, I still get the default names 14:22:10 <Diablo-D3> heh 14:22:18 <Diablo-D3> also, dwe and vast? hrm 14:22:23 <Diablo-D3> maybe I should throw those in 14:22:34 <Diablo-D3> I took suburban, rural, and city stations out 14:22:36 <Diablo-D3> they kinda suck 14:22:47 <Diablo-D3> and I cant get them to work right 14:22:51 <MercedesBens> Alberth, ? 14:23:04 <Rubidium> MNIM: would you next time please make a screenshot with OpenTTD's screenshot feature. It will make a significantly smaller screenshot, and you don't have to blur out stuff on the taskbar 14:23:08 <MNIM> dwe has pipelines, those look nice on oil/water stations 14:23:21 <MNIM> I wouldn't recommend vast, though, really 14:23:24 <Alberth> MercedesBens: that image is bigger than the resolution you desire 14:23:29 <MNIM> just a collection of empty stationtiles 14:23:37 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: well yeah, thats the point 14:23:42 <Diablo-D3> its all art 14:23:47 <Rubidium> Alberth: where did he post an image? 14:23:50 <MNIM> it's in the list more because I forgot to pull it out, than that I found any real use for it 14:24:06 <Diablo-D3> I wanna add marico next 14:24:10 <MNIM> other stationsets provide empty tiles as well (and/or prettier) 14:24:11 <Diablo-D3> http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/details.php?do=details&id=296 14:24:17 <MNIM> marico is a good one! 14:24:19 <Alberth> MercedesBens: ooh, it's not your image. Sorry for the confusion 14:24:22 <MNIM> sadly, it's a bit bugged 14:24:29 <Alberth> Rubidium: thanks 14:24:45 <MNIM> I can't build 'em ingame, though it's said to be possible 14:25:06 <Diablo-D3> hrm 14:25:14 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: I thought you had to use the other menu to build em 14:25:31 <MNIM> they're newobjects 14:25:35 <Diablo-D3> it adds a new action on the landscaping toolbar 14:25:54 <Diablo-D3> is what what newobjects are? 14:26:01 <MNIM> but they don't appear on the objects selection window 14:26:10 <Diablo-D3> meh Ill keep it out then 14:26:49 <MNIM> unless a fixed version appears, you can do that 14:27:13 <MercedesBens> I want resolution in full screen 1024x768, rather than less, which offers games to choose from the list 14:27:36 <MNIM> but when it does work, it is *pretty* 14:27:41 <MNIM> http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/OTTD/New%20Handwell%20Co.%2C%2018th%20Jul%201939.png 14:27:43 <MNIM> Q.E.D. 14:28:00 <Diablo-D3> yeah exactly 14:28:20 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 14:28:21 <MNIM> one of my better games 14:28:22 <Diablo-D3> I think I might throw in a HQ replacement grf too 14:28:47 <MNIM> sadly, it got lost in an OS reinstall 14:29:09 <MNIM> that one had a un-bugged version of marico - it was glorious 14:29:11 <appe> MNIM: now that is a pretty sight. 14:29:33 * MNIM notes to self: backup /home/ more often 14:29:52 <Diablo-D3> http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/details.php?do=details&id=62 14:30:02 <Diablo-D3> see, that as a pax station tile would be awesome 14:31:14 <MNIM> the only disadvantage of that game was that in later stages of the game the bridges you see down-left were rather bogged down with rail traffic between the two mega cities 14:31:27 <MNIM> restructuring was ...expensive. 14:32:34 * Diablo-D3 TURNS OFF VEHICLE BREAKDOWNS 14:32:36 <Diablo-D3> SHUT UP ALREADY 14:32:42 <MNIM> in the same game: 14:32:43 <MNIM> http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/OTTD/Polders.png 14:32:45 <appe> i never play with it on. 14:32:57 <MNIM> I do, but I have 'em to reduced 14:33:05 <V453000> LOL dutch sea-level land MNIM ? :D 14:33:09 <Diablo-D3> I have it on reduced, but I have a giant bus fleet 14:33:16 *** zachanima [~zach@0x52b41806.static.bcbnet.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:33:26 <MNIM> yeap 14:33:29 <V453000> breakdowns are stupid, even if you service trains the most you can, they still break down 14:33:31 <Diablo-D3> so it just keeps making the goddamned noise 14:33:35 <Diablo-D3> V453000: EXACTLY 14:33:38 <MNIM> the rest of the map is rather mountainous, though 14:33:41 <Diablo-D3> I even had a goddamned depot order in 14:33:49 <Diablo-D3> and they keep making that damned noise 14:33:51 <Diablo-D3> RAARGH 14:33:56 <V453000> and breakdowns just make the game easier over all 14:34:16 <V453000> in the long run .. 14:34:36 <MNIM> easier? 14:35:06 <V453000> sure, it leaves less room for inventions and making up stuff for intensively busy networks 14:35:14 <V453000> because you will never get to that point with breakdowns on 14:35:40 <MNIM> meh, I do 14:35:54 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:36:08 <MNIM> see this: 14:36:09 <MNIM> http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/OTTD/New%20World%20Transports%2C%204th%20Nov%201994.png 14:36:12 <V453000> well, if you had intensively busy network, you would not be able to get away with 1 bridge per line 14:36:18 <MNIM> then this 14:36:19 <MNIM> http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/OTTD/New%20World%20Transports%2C%2014th%20Jul%202095.png 14:36:40 <MNIM> also, I keep bridges at five tiles long max, usually 14:36:56 <V453000> k http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/File:PSG213.png 14:37:19 <MNIM> that's just silly. 14:37:26 <MNIM> how many trains there? 14:37:34 <V453000> 1200 I think 14:37:41 <V453000> silly? ok 14:37:45 <Diablo-D3> woah 14:37:56 <MNIM> in that one pic alone, I mean 14:38:03 <V453000> dont know, count them 14:38:25 <V453000> but it is for 4 _full_ lines of trains 14:38:44 <V453000> the full is key for "intensive" traffic 14:39:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:39:56 <V453000> but yes, it is completely silly, which is why we are improving our building style for years 14:41:31 <MNIM> personally I like 'em most like that last pic I posted. possibly not the most efficient use of ground, but definitely the prettiest (IMNSHO) 14:42:32 <V453000> if that is pretty for you :) 14:43:14 <V453000> those things look nice to me http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/2/22/PSG186.png 14:43:54 <V453000> but probably the best thing is http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/a/a6/PSG197.png 14:44:21 <MNIM> is that a quadline junction? 14:45:28 <V453000> 3 from 2 sides, 4 from one 14:45:38 <V453000> oh, no 14:45:48 <V453000> 3 from 2 and 2 from the northern one 14:46:02 <peter1138> 197 is mr ugly 14:46:09 <V453000> sure is 14:46:58 <MNIM> it is a /bit/ bigger than most of my junctions 14:47:19 <V453000> it is extremely small 14:47:43 <MNIM> also, I usually hide a station somewhere near my junction, which tends to complicate them 14:49:46 <MNIM> though, I should admit, I have no quad*quad*quad*quad junctions 14:51:06 <V453000> 4way juntcions are never worth building instead of 3ways, from 2 lines or more they become uselessly big and unexpandale 14:51:24 <V453000> just to reply on the number of *quads* :p 14:51:40 <MNIM> ah yeah, I can follow that thought 14:51:51 <peter1138> i like to build my junctions just outside of stations 14:51:57 <peter1138> it's inefficient but pretty ;p 14:51:59 <MNIM> same here 14:52:23 <MNIM> and if I can help it, I try to integrate the station in my junction 14:52:37 <V453000> yes, which keeps you from needing any system for your network because PBS allows you to do such messy things :) 14:53:06 <MNIM> well, PBS helps :D 14:53:13 <MNIM> http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/OTTD/New%20Handwell%20Co.%2C%2021st%20Oct%201917.png 14:53:49 <V453000> that isnt too bad 14:53:56 <V453000> but PBS is just evil :) 14:54:22 <MNIM> generally I only use PBS for loadbalancing on quadlines and leaving roro stations with shared platforms 14:54:47 <MNIM> http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/OTTD/Black%20and%20Co%20-%2029th%20Jan%201900.png 14:54:56 <MNIM> when used like that, they work pretty well 14:55:31 <V453000> pretty well until you get high traffic :) 14:56:04 <MNIM> nah, that's where they start having an advantage, at least in this setup that's what I experienced 14:56:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:56:40 <MNIM> as six trains can leave and enter the station at one side at once, which wouldn't be possible with presignals 14:57:21 <Diablo-D3> lol 14:57:26 <Diablo-D3> milk in 2cc 14:57:29 <Diablo-D3> doesnt use a tanker 14:58:21 <Diablo-D3> I can either yes boxcar or silo 14:58:24 <Diablo-D3> *use 14:58:31 <MNIM> unless I add miles of bridges and complicated rail paths, of course. that would be most effecient, in terms of traffic densities and likelyhood of jams 14:58:40 <MNIM> but less effecient In terms of land usage 14:58:42 <V453000> you still havent understood what I mean by high traffic :P 14:59:04 <MNIM> I know, I know what you mean 14:59:55 <MNIM> but when I have to transport large quantities of resources from several mines at once I go for 14 block or even 28 block trains 15:00:05 <MNIM> with feeder services 15:00:15 <V453000> whats the problem? :) 15:00:51 <MNIM> you use lots of small trains 15:01:49 <MNIM> I go for the scale enlargement option 15:03:26 <Diablo-D3> man raw milk in a boxcar 15:03:27 <Diablo-D3> wtf 15:04:00 <MNIM> diablo: the question is, is the issue in your trainset or in your industries vector? 15:04:15 <Diablo-D3> dunnolol.jpg 15:06:14 <MNIM> the latter is more likely, as the trainset only supplies wagons for certain types of cargoes - liquid, goods, solid minerals/grain etc, livestock and valuables, mail, humans 15:06:38 <MNIM> the industry vector defines cargoes and what kind of cargo they are 15:10:06 <Elukka> is milk actually transported in tankers these days? 15:10:35 <peter1138> oh balls 15:10:43 <peter1138> i made a crap train because i forgot about loan :p 15:10:51 <MNIM> not in train tankers, as far as Im aware 15:11:21 <Elukka> i know the brits did it at some point 15:11:23 <Diablo-D3> whats a silo car? 15:14:44 <Elukka> http://www.rongid.ee/pics/roc/roc67747.jpg 15:15:01 <Diablo-D3> hrm 15:15:06 <Diablo-D3> thats sorta tankerish 15:15:16 <Diablo-D3> but why the hell does a boxcar hold a crapload more milk than that 15:15:24 <Elukka> i don't think it's for liquids 15:15:44 <Elukka> i have a model like that for animal feed 15:16:02 <Diablo-D3> well according to 2cc 15:16:08 <Diablo-D3> with firs 15:16:16 <Diablo-D3> it says alchohol, chemicals, milk, oil, petrol 15:16:26 <Diablo-D3> the tanker does chemicals, oil, and petrol 15:17:03 <Diablo-D3> the boxcar does alchohol, supplies, supplies, fish, food, fruit and vegitables, goods, livestock, supplies, and milk 15:17:37 <Diablo-D3> and the hopper does ore ore ore grain ore lumber plant fibres ore ore sugar beet and wood 15:19:12 <MNIM> well, according to 2CC with ECS, my tanker does oil, petrol, refined products and water 15:19:42 <MNIM> silo does dyes, oil, petrol, refined products and water. 15:20:05 <MNIM> the boxcar does mostly foodstuffs and valuables 15:21:40 <erik1984> MNIM: lol that's planning ahead for the city growth 15:22:03 <erik1984> I was refering to the screenshots posted earlier btw. 15:23:22 <MNIM> I know 15:23:45 <MNIM> on of my earlier games I did it the 'natural' way 15:24:14 <MNIM> let me tell you, erasing half a city because you need to double up your tracks and station... not pretty 15:27:08 <erik1984> Smart move, it sucks when you have to resort to bribing. 15:27:24 <Diablo-D3> lol 15:27:32 <Diablo-D3> I have a fleet of 25 maddelena ferriies 15:27:38 <Diablo-D3> the big 800 pax ones 15:27:47 <MNIM> I know 15:27:54 <Diablo-D3> I have busses transferring to them from one city 15:28:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "no further government funding for Transrapid test track planned after the end of this year" 15:28:15 <MNIM> the one marico screenshot I showed? 15:28:31 <MNIM> those were madelenas, they hardly sufficed 15:28:43 <Diablo-D3> its lol 15:28:58 <MNIM> two gigantic cities, right next to eachother 15:29:43 <MNIM> express trains shuttling solely between those two, madelenas and a couple of faster boats, 300kmh+ intercities and stoptrains 15:30:10 <Diablo-D3> theres 100 busses alternating between two loops in the city 15:30:17 <Diablo-D3> an inner loop and an outer loop 15:30:21 <Diablo-D3> and I think I need more busses 15:30:46 <MNIM> the sad part about it all? 15:31:10 <MNIM> all that passenger traffic being transported makes the cities increasingly bigger 15:31:15 <MNIM> it's a self-reinforcing loop 15:31:17 <Diablo-D3> I know 15:31:24 <Diablo-D3> I played citybuilder for awhile 15:31:35 <Diablo-D3> I actually won a few games using massive inner city pax 15:31:45 <Diablo-D3> and just providing the bare minimum of other crap 15:39:36 <Diablo-D3> man I have more ferry traffic than new york city 15:41:11 *** zachanima [~zach@0x52b41806.static.bcbnet.dk] has joined #openttd 15:42:42 <Eddi|zuHause> even more than Rubidium's game? 15:43:48 <MNIM> how much did he have? 15:45:48 <Eddi|zuHause> http://rbijker.net/openttd/misc/mine.png 15:47:41 <MNIM> I would say that's a tad bit much 15:48:19 <MNIM> I take it he doesn't use realistic acceleration? 15:48:34 <Diablo-D3> too much shit doesnt work with it 15:49:01 <Diablo-D3> OIL TANKERS! OIL TANKERS EVERYWHERE! 15:51:18 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-228-168.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 15:51:42 <Diablo-D3> wtf? hes actually using waterway bridges? wtf 15:51:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i would link to http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%205.%20Nov%201988.png but the server is down today... 15:52:36 <Rubidium> Diablo-D3: why do you think I implemented them? 15:52:49 <Diablo-D3> because you're insane? 15:52:51 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DDCD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:53:08 <Eddi|zuHause> seriously, who in this channel is not insane? :p 15:53:19 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: DorpsGek? 15:53:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: a bot can only be as insane as its implementer? :) 15:54:22 <MNIM> well, considering the bot has crazy in it's very name... 15:54:23 <Rubidium> hmm, sorry... he is insane 15:54:33 <MNIM> also,i have once or twice used aquaducts 15:54:48 <MNIM> but what Im more interested in right now would be water tunnels 15:55:06 <Rubidium> "lack of understanding as prevents one from having the mental capacity required by law for criminal responsibility" 15:55:22 <MNIM> I usually have to build my railway junctions on top of rivers, you see 15:55:23 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: asides from it not being overly "realistic", they'd be very glitchy, as ships are so huge 15:55:47 <MNIM> well, they do exist, though they're usually for canals 15:56:01 <MNIM> so realism, like usual, would lie in the hands of the player 15:56:11 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: they're usually for very small boats 15:56:31 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: but like i said, there are not only "realism" arguments 15:56:42 *** erik1984 [~erik1984@vhe-490300.sshn.net] has left #openttd [] 15:57:09 <MNIM> well, ships fit in a single-tile canal, and they fit under single-level bridges 15:57:23 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: it's working again 15:57:27 <MNIM> either way, I do suspect it would be a rather huge coding effort 15:57:49 <MNIM> by the way, eddi, the http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%205.%20Nov%201988.png link does work for me 15:57:56 <Eddi|zuHause> valhallasw: ah nice :) 15:58:04 <MNIM> it's more my kind of work 15:58:06 <MNIM> map 15:58:09 <MNIM> ah lol, ninja'd 15:58:10 <Eddi|zuHause> was down since yesterday 15:58:18 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:58:27 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: the gray rail is high-speed-rail? 15:58:47 <Eddi|zuHause> valhallasw: the various shades of gray are various speeds, yes 15:59:12 <MNIM> looks like an old version of nutracks? 15:59:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 15:59:43 <Eddi|zuHause> frankly, i don't like the new nutracks... colours are too similar 15:59:49 <Eddi|zuHause> and too noisy 16:00:02 <MNIM> personally I like 'em 16:00:12 <MNIM> guess it's a thing of taste 16:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that was a yacd 1.x game 16:02:19 <Eddi|zuHause> but not actually the final state 16:05:06 <Eddi|zuHause> pirates: 8.5%, FDP: 2.0% 16:05:17 <Elukka> cs tracks are still my favorite 16:05:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i really hate the cs tracks 16:06:30 <Elukka> why? 16:06:50 <Eddi|zuHause> even more noise than the nutracks. and it's too bright 16:07:51 <Diablo-D3> AHAHAHHA 16:07:52 <Diablo-D3> OH WOW 16:08:09 <Diablo-D3> nocab installed an airport for the entire purpose of flying livestock 16:11:03 <Elukka> hrm can't make the post wagon look very good 16:12:31 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 16:12:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 16:14:50 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: what do you think? http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/mail2.png 16:15:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: dunno, hard to decide 16:17:48 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/mail3.png 16:17:49 <Elukka> alternative 16:19:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:21:15 *** jo2k [~Jonny@dslb-094-223-183-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:23:25 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:23 <Elukka> well i'm leaning towards the alternative version now, slightly modified 16:29:13 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what do you think to a 'Cars' cargo? 16:31:07 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: nah, let it be goods 16:31:34 <andythenorth> that has the slightly odd result that 'goods' will go from auto plant to hardware store, food market, etc 16:31:54 <andythenorth> abstract cargos are fine. But so far in FIRS we've managed to avoid 'weird' 16:32:41 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/mail4.png 16:32:58 <Elukka> i think it's starting to look okay to me but now's the best time for suggestions because i hate reworking everything when all the sprites are done 16:33:09 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:33:12 <andythenorth> Elukka: it's nice 16:33:37 <andythenorth> I would add highlight for 1px width at right hand edge of roof 16:33:45 <Elukka> hmm 16:33:49 <andythenorth> and same on raised brake tower 16:33:58 <andythenorth> just go 1 shade lighter 16:34:40 <Elukka> i dunno 16:34:53 <Elukka> i do that on the diagonals but it looks kinda odd in the side view 16:35:06 <andythenorth> up to you ;) 16:35:18 <andythenorth> hmm 16:35:27 <Elukka> suggestions are good anyway :P 16:35:34 <andythenorth> how annoying is it to randomise industry produced cargos? 16:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so, how many cargos can you sacrifice for yet another town sink? 16:35:44 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: dunno 16:35:48 <andythenorth> there's only 1 left :P 16:36:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and what's left for a generic "goods" cargo? 16:37:12 <Eddi|zuHause> if you split off Food, Building Materials and Cars? 16:37:24 <andythenorth> currently, generic 'goods' 16:37:44 <Eddi|zuHause> what's still producing goods? 16:37:53 <andythenorth> foundry, plastics plant, furniture factory, paper mill, textile mill 16:39:03 <andythenorth> I had planned car plant for a specific 'manufacturing' economy, with rubber + auto parts + automobile cargos 16:39:24 <andythenorth> I'm not sure it fits in the main FIRS economy 16:40:00 <andythenorth> maybe I should just add back a generic 'factory' 16:40:21 <andythenorth> could do something interesting, like a ship yard or such 16:40:26 <andythenorth> what uses metal and is interesting? 16:40:32 <andythenorth> doesn't have to produce, could be a sink 16:41:03 <Elukka> i think cars are pretty interesting 16:41:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i still think my previous suggestion works best: remove goods from foundry, possibly add building materials instead. and make a car (or generic) factory that accepts metal and manufacturing supplies 16:41:50 <andythenorth> I favour generic factory 16:41:52 <TWerkhoven> locomotive works? 16:41:58 <Elukka> shipyard 16:44:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the advantage of that is: you don't need any additional cargos 16:46:00 <andythenorth> leaving 1 spare 16:46:08 <andythenorth> it's the most logical solution 16:46:16 <andythenorth> is there anything left-field which would be fun? 16:46:22 <andythenorth> we've had factories for years :P 16:49:24 <TWerkhoven> tin food factory 16:50:11 <andythenorth> got one :) 16:51:05 <Eddi|zuHause> it's just that cars are one of the most important consumer goods that are usually transported by rail 16:51:42 <andythenorth> I know 16:51:51 <andythenorth> it just has a few too many rough edges to make it work 16:53:22 <andythenorth> bicycle plant? 16:53:22 <Eddi|zuHause> make the factory generic enough that one can with a clean consciousness use car transporters for it :) 16:53:45 <andythenorth> that's plausible 16:54:03 <andythenorth> you're still delivering cars to a food store :P 16:54:10 <Eddi|zuHause> or make several factories that have no significant functional difference 16:54:58 <MNIM> hmmmh 16:55:09 * andythenorth ponders 16:55:10 <MNIM> in ecs, do (large) cities accept vehicles? 16:59:02 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-228-168.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:59:17 <Eddi|zuHause> no 16:59:38 <Elukka> that, however, seems like it'd be rather sensible 16:59:39 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: one factory for stuff and one for things 16:59:43 <Eddi|zuHause> you need a grf that contains a car shop industry (or house) 17:03:29 <MNIM> hmmmh yeah, a car dealership makes sense 17:04:15 <Diablo-D3> I'd support that 17:04:20 <Eddi|zuHause> check if the "ECS houses" (which is a subset of "functional" houses from TTRS) contains that 17:04:22 <Diablo-D3> but maybe we should be working on firs more ;) 17:07:33 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I _could_ have the steel mill produce building materials directly 17:07:42 <andythenorth> assume it has a rolling plant for girders 17:07:54 <andythenorth> also foobar wanted that - steel mills produce slag cement 17:07:59 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the sense of the foundry then? 17:08:10 <andythenorth> leave it at goods 17:08:13 <andythenorth> I think it's not the best route 17:08:24 <andythenorth> I don't need more building materials. I need another place to send metal 17:08:36 <Eddi|zuHause> turn foundry into factory then, accept metal and mnsp 17:08:48 <andythenorth> it's the route I'll go if we think of nothing more interesting 17:08:53 <andythenorth> it's 80% likely :) 17:09:19 <andythenorth> some metal-processing industry? rolling mill? Stamping plant? 17:10:04 * andythenorth -> wikipedia 17:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause> shipyard: accept metal, produce supplies? 17:11:05 <Eddi|zuHause> engineering supplies in this case 17:11:12 <andythenorth> could be 17:11:14 <andythenorth> would look neat 17:11:59 <Eddi|zuHause> shipyards do not only produce ships, also large diesel engines may be produced there 17:12:14 <andythenorth> engine plant? 17:12:24 <andythenorth> hmm 17:12:28 <andythenorth> foundry does casting 17:12:34 <andythenorth> maybe a rolling mill 17:18:13 <MNIM> hmmmmh 17:18:14 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 17:19:18 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: on pure logic, the factory wins 17:19:31 <MNIM> there's only one real thing about the whole ttrs that bothers me. 17:20:09 <MNIM> next to the ttrs city towers, the company headquarters looks really tiny. 17:21:15 *** jo2k [~Jonny@dslb-094-223-183-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: jo2k] 17:21:17 <V453000> well nobody says you should use HQ in a city :) 17:21:38 <MNIM> true. 17:25:48 <Eddi|zuHause> there's really only ONE thing that bothers you about TTRS?!? 17:26:14 <Eddi|zuHause> besides, you can use a HQ replacement 17:26:40 <V453000> there is no thing that bothers me with TTRS really ... the glitches are sometimes a bit weird, but it looks awesome all in all 17:28:02 <MercedesBens> where you can share save? 17:28:54 <Eddi|zuHause> forum, if it's not too big 17:30:07 <andythenorth> there's only one thing wrong with TTRS 17:30:12 <andythenorth> lighting direction :P 17:30:32 <V453000> never even noticed that 17:30:41 <V453000> so it cant be that bad :P 17:31:14 <MercedesBens> where you can download save other players? 17:31:50 <V453000> hehe, directly from the right? :D how far is that from other newgrfs andythenorth ? 17:32:04 <andythenorth> not too bad 17:32:25 <V453000> doesnt look too different to me 17:32:45 <MercedesBens> help 17:33:07 <andythenorth> V453000: I take it back :) 17:33:23 <andythenorth> TTRS has some awesome art in it 17:33:24 <V453000> MercedesBens: some saves here http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive 17:33:33 <V453000> it totally does ^_^ 17:34:04 <andythenorth> it does light sloped roofs wrong though 17:34:39 <V453000> well, yeah, that is the deformation - you as an artist notice that, I obey the shiny illusion it provides :P 17:34:51 <V453000> which is imo what graphics are about - making the illusion and looking nice 17:35:56 <andythenorth> so a rolling mill could produce building materials, and (when in the economy) auto parts 17:36:39 <V453000> maybe not that way :P 17:37:12 <MercedesBens> V453000, thanks 17:37:57 <V453000> MercedesBens: hope you will enjoy them :P 17:38:00 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.84.107] has joined #openttd 17:38:13 <MercedesBens> from what country/city you are? 17:38:20 <V453000> me? Czech Republic 17:38:40 <MercedesBens> all 17:39:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so you want to transport molten metal from steel furnace to rolling mill? :) 17:39:23 <andythenorth> well....no 17:39:25 <V453000> :D 17:39:30 <andythenorth> but I thought of doing that to the foundry 17:39:36 <MercedesBens> Interestingly where I play this game 17:39:37 <andythenorth> has anyone drawn torpedo cars? 17:39:38 <V453000> or molten cows to vehicle factory to produce trojan horses 17:39:56 <andythenorth> torpedo cars would be a good independent grf 17:40:04 <andythenorth> or maybe in HEQS :D 17:40:16 <MercedesBens> My English is terrible 17:42:08 <MercedesBens> people, from what you cities? 17:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22942 /trunk/src/lang/ (slovak.txt spanish.txt unfinished/persian.txt): 17:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: persian - 26 changes by Peymanpn 17:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: slovak - 73 changes by klingacik 17:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: spanish - 3 changes by Terkhen 17:48:29 <andythenorth> neko drew torpedo cars http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=116469 17:49:37 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-72-134.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:53:13 *** MercedesBens [~IRChelper@95.52.225.1] has quit [Quit: Ãåñïëà òÃûé ñûð ïîëó÷à åò òîëÌêî âòîðà ÿ ìûÞêà ...] 17:56:41 <TinoDidriksen> Is there an option to disable airplane crashing anywhere yet? 17:56:50 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 17:57:20 <Eddi|zuHause> disable "normal" crashes in advanced settings, and disable "small airport" crashes in cheats 17:58:05 <V453000> I think the advanced settings are enough, never seen a plane crash and I dont use cheats 17:58:13 <V453000> and I use small airports 17:59:29 <TinoDidriksen> Oh there it is...I looked all over that thing earlier and skipped right past the option. 17:59:48 <Eddi|zuHause> happens to all of us :p 18:03:26 *** TWerkhoven [~taede@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:06 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-101-71.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 18:18:12 <andythenorth> will you moan if I add rail heavy equipment cars 18:18:28 <andythenorth> hot steel torpedos, heavy equipment carriers... 18:19:02 *** loopcoop [~loopcoop@a-84-21.sc.andrews.edu] has joined #openttd 18:21:08 <Elukka> i will not moan 18:22:03 <Diablo-D3> heh 18:22:08 <Diablo-D3> I go afk for like a half hour 18:22:12 <Diablo-D3> and now I have 21 million 18:26:48 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-72-134.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 18:36:51 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has joined #openttd 18:38:44 *** perk111 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has joined #openttd 18:43:52 <MNIM> hmmmh, Ive got a question 18:43:54 <MNIM> http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%205.%20Nov%201988.png 18:44:38 <MNIM> in this pic, the vilskrch Hafen (slightly below the topmost city, right of the island airport) 18:44:48 <MNIM> what newgrf are those dock objects? 18:44:57 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:45:00 <MNIM> I like 'em 18:51:49 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4af5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:53:01 <appe> boo! 18:53:05 *** Elukka [~Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 18:53:24 <Diablo-D3> man when the hell does 2cc get good trains 18:55:56 *** macee [~macee@dsl54026C6E.pool.t-online.hu] has left #openttd [] 19:02:50 <Diablo-D3> oh wait 19:02:53 <Diablo-D3> I think I know what the problem is 19:02:57 <Diablo-D3> I have train weight turned up to 5 19:02:59 *** pjpe [ae5f4224@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:03:03 <Diablo-D3> because nars and ukrs says it shoyuld be 19:04:38 <Diablo-D3> whats the default, 1? 19:06:20 *** loopcoop [~loopcoop@a-84-21.sc.andrews.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:07:47 <Alberth> 42 19:08:17 <V453000> Alberth: 43 usually 19:08:24 <V453000> or is there a new default? 19:08:36 <Alberth> not that I am aware of 19:08:45 <Alberth> I often use 10 19:08:54 <Diablo-D3> Im on an alpine map 19:09:00 <Diablo-D3> with mountains turned up the whole way 19:09:08 <Diablo-D3> and its absurd that 4 engines cant pull 24 cars 19:09:51 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:10:29 <Alberth> on the way down it works quite nicely :) 19:10:35 <Diablo-D3> hee 19:10:42 *** erik1984 [~erik1984@vhe-490300.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 19:10:44 <Alberth> steepness of the slope is also of importance 19:10:53 <Diablo-D3> not too steep 19:10:58 <Diablo-D3> its like half full steepness 19:11:57 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:57 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 19:18:12 <frosch123> yay, hot tea 19:20:41 <Alberth> good night 19:22:05 <andythenorth> MNIM: the dock objects are probably FIRS fishing harbour industries 19:23:35 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:24:02 <andythenorth> it's a nice map. who's screenshot is that? 19:30:53 <Eddi|zuHause> that is mine 19:31:15 <andythenorth> 'tis nice ;) 19:31:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and this is a firs fishing harbour 19:35:31 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:15 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 19:47:21 <MNIM> naice. 19:47:25 <MNIM> sadly, Im using ecs 19:51:33 <MNIM> http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/industries 19:51:39 <MNIM> ah yes, I see now. 19:51:44 * MNIM sadfaces. 19:52:22 <__ln__> *whose 19:52:35 <planetmaker> you know... luckily OpenTTD doesn't charge you for each game. Thus you can play a new game (for free!) when you have finished your current one. And even you decide when you have finished it 19:53:01 <MNIM> I like all the rail station pretties in ottd, but sometimes I wish there were more harbour pretties 19:53:19 <planetmaker> use railstations for that effect 19:53:47 <TWerkhoven[l]> a lot of non-track tiles are fairly generic anyway 19:55:16 <MNIM> I know, but those can't be built on a slope (facing the wrong way) or on the water 19:56:22 <planetmaker> they usually have two rotations... so that's not an issue 19:56:42 <planetmaker> and on water... just build canal all around and bulldoze that tile. Then build "on water" 19:56:42 <erik1984> @planetmaker: Yeah OpenTTD is value for money ;) 19:57:22 <MNIM> money? since when do you need to pay for openttd 0-0 19:57:24 <MNIM> :P 20:00:09 <andythenorth> FISH needs a lot more ships 20:00:41 <planetmaker> yeah... lazy author. He didn't spam the purchase list with zillions of ships :-P 20:01:22 <planetmaker> does it need river ships? 20:01:41 <planetmaker> I wondered whether the paddle steamer should rather be river ships 20:02:00 <andythenorth> it will be better when I do more generations 20:02:14 <andythenorth> currently there's hardly progresion 20:02:27 <andythenorth> I lost my co-spriter :( 20:02:36 <planetmaker> hm, who was that? 20:02:39 <planetmaker> dmk? 20:03:02 <andythenorth> DanMacK 20:03:20 <planetmaker> did he tell that he'd go for a hiatus? 20:03:39 <andythenorth> yes 20:03:40 *** jo2k [~Jonny@dslb-094-223-183-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 20:03:49 <planetmaker> oh :-S 20:04:01 <planetmaker> sad news. One of the talented ones 20:06:37 *** beijingguy [esben_smil@56340d54.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #openttd 20:07:28 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:31 *** beijingguy [esben_smil@56340d54.rev.stofanet.dk] has left #openttd [] 20:07:35 *** loopcoop [~loopcoop@a-84-21.sc.andrews.edu] has joined #openttd 20:10:57 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:17:51 *** jo2k [~Jonny@dslb-094-223-183-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: jo2k] 20:17:59 <Terkhen> hmm :( 20:18:09 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:54 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:23:26 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 20:32:42 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.84.107] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:36:03 *** loopcoop [~loopcoop@a-84-21.sc.andrews.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:38:40 <andythenorth> good night 20:38:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:45:39 <Terkhen> good night 20:51:40 <MNIM> hmmmmh. 20:52:00 <MNIM> 2200hp just ain't cutting it for a 14tile long cargo train, it seems. 20:52:32 <MNIM> I should be glad it's not doing the mountainous route >.> 20:52:47 <MNIM> even some bridges are only taken at 60-70 kmh 20:53:35 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, the heaviest trains are pulled by ~18000hp (2 engines pull, one pushes) 20:54:54 <MNIM> probably the same over here 20:56:05 <Eddi|zuHause> those are ore trains with 25t axle weight and 250 axles in total (including engines) 20:56:13 <Eddi|zuHause> they go from Hamburg to Salzgitter 20:57:12 <MNIM> hmmmh. 20:57:49 <MNIM> what is more important with realistic acceleration and heavy trains? kN or hp? 20:58:15 <Eddi|zuHause> kN is important at low speeds and on slopes, hp is important on any other place 20:58:27 <MNIM> ah, ty 20:59:12 <Eddi|zuHause> "low speed" is something like 10-20km/h, depending on engine 21:01:58 <MNIM> low speed ain't the problem so far, it's more that it'll block other traffic at slopes going below 70kmh 21:02:15 <MNIM> even though it's maximum elevation above sea level is only three units 21:02:29 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "Pro Tag starten vier volle ZÃŒge bei Hansaport, und es kommen vier leere ZÃŒge zurÃŒck - alles Spezialwaggons mit sechs Achsen. 101 Tonnen Ladung schluckt jeder Waggon. 40 Waggons hÀngen hinter den beiden E-Loks der Baureihe 151. Jede Lok wiegt 118 Tonnen. Das Gesamtgewicht des 640 Meter langen Erztransporters liegt bei 5700 Tonnen." 21:03:18 <MNIM> using the sbb am4/6 from the 2cc. 2200hp and 132kn: something tells me that train was not made for freight trains 21:04:05 <MNIM> oh well, it's just as expensive in running as the old loc while going from five to 14 tiles of freight, so profit should be made anyway :P 21:04:21 <Eddi|zuHause> "Die 205 Kilometer lange Strecke ist nach viereinhalb Stunden geschafft." 21:06:45 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, that is even old info, the trains are even heavier nowadays 21:08:43 <Diablo-D3> oh shit 21:08:45 <Diablo-D3> this isnt good 21:08:53 <Diablo-D3> I am now exceeding the ability of my ferries to pick up pax 21:09:04 <Diablo-D3> oh wait nm 21:09:06 <Diablo-D3> I ran out of ships 21:10:16 * Diablo-D3 builds 25 more ferries 21:13:24 <Eddi|zuHause> that's 27 clicks! 21:14:59 <Eddi|zuHause> or 29 if you count opening the depot and scrolling to an existing ship 21:16:09 <Eddi|zuHause> asymptotocally that's n+o(n) with n being the number of new ships 21:19:27 <__ln__> are there mice with a kind of 'auto-fire' switch? 21:19:50 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4af5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you have programmable buttons? 21:20:50 <__ln__> would be also useful when debuggin something with KDevelop 3. 21:21:19 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-5-108.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 21:21:21 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 21:22:59 <Diablo-D3> actually 21:23:04 <Diablo-D3> I wish there was clone and drag 21:23:12 <Diablo-D3> control shift click clone, drag through spots 21:23:14 <Diablo-D3> mass clone 21:24:14 <Eddi|zuHause> shift is cost estimate 21:28:09 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.eisenbahnwelten.de/pics/gb_103-221_zugschluss.jpg <-- something is wrong in this image :p 21:36:57 <Pinkbeast> Shunted there by a diesel, maybe? 21:37:37 *** sla_ro|vista [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 21:37:43 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-101-71.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:46 <TWerkhoven[l]> there do seem to be overhead lines on that line, pantographs are just down 21:38:01 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-101-71.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 21:38:12 <Pinkbeast> Oh, maybe you're right, they just don't show up in shot very well 21:40:46 * TWerkhoven[l] gives up 21:42:54 *** KritiK_ [~Maxim@95-24-101-71.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 21:42:54 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-101-71.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:55 *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK 21:45:09 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the "end of train" signs are attached to the rain sweepers :p 21:45:32 <Eddi|zuHause> (the red/white plates) 21:45:43 <TWerkhoven[l]> i thought those were just decorative 21:46:02 <TWerkhoven[l]> i take it they are supposed to be affixed to the buffers or lights according to regulations? 21:46:42 <TWerkhoven[l]> or is this a non-remote control loc being towed at the end? 21:46:56 <Eddi|zuHause> http://stellwerke.de/signal/deutsch/zg.html#zg2 21:48:14 <Eddi|zuHause> if the engine/wagon cannot show red lights, these red/white plates must be at the end of train. usually engines have special slots where they fit, but the BR 103 doesn't have any 21:49:25 <TWerkhoven[l]> :) 21:50:09 <TWerkhoven[l]> another thing learned 21:53:05 <TWerkhoven[l]> and with that i is off to bed 21:53:06 <TWerkhoven[l]> gn 21:53:33 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:54:53 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-5-108.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 21:58:56 <Eddi|zuHause> windows is too insecure. use apple. http://www.defenceindepth.net/2011/09/cracking-os-x-lion-passwords.html 22:01:46 <MNIM> lol, apple, secure? 22:03:14 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 22:03:14 *** George is now known as Guest10797 22:03:15 *** George|2 is now known as George 22:04:32 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:04:52 <MNIM> I'mma go and divulge a little secret here. 22:04:57 <MNIM> NO OS IS SAFE 22:05:05 <MNIM> but you already knew that, right? 22:07:00 *** loopcoop [~loopcoop@a-84-21.sc.andrews.edu] has joined #openttd 22:07:35 <Diablo-D3> not true 22:07:38 <Diablo-D3> dos is pretty safe 22:08:35 *** Guest10797 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:08:39 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 22:09:14 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: what about control alt? 22:09:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: alt is forbidden, because on some OSes it is caught before it reaches the program 22:09:59 <Diablo-D3> control meta? 22:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. on most linux window managers, alt+click means move window 22:12:53 *** KritiK_ [~Maxim@95-24-101-71.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 22:12:53 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-101-71.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:55 *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK 22:13:35 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:22 *** perk111 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 22:17:48 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-2-96-17-168.as13285.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:18:20 <Wolf01> 'night 22:18:24 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.233.237.150] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:18:50 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 22:20:11 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-029-201.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 22:31:32 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:32:52 *** grovsalt [r24d1p@host-88-80-29-36.cust.prq.se] has joined #openttd 22:46:28 *** erik1984 [~erik1984@vhe-490300.sshn.net] has quit [Quit: Doei!] 22:49:53 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-72-134.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:50:02 *** grovsalt [r24d1p@host-88-80-29-36.cust.prq.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 22:50:09 *** grovsalt [k6o20e@host-88-80-29-36.cust.prq.se] has joined #openttd 23:03:03 *** loopcoop [~loopcoop@a-84-21.sc.andrews.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:11:00 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-248-23.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:18:23 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 23:19:47 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B7422B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:21:10 <MNIM> d'oh 23:22:02 <MNIM> nice train, this sbb Am 4/6, but for the love of god, don't have an engine failure right in front of a slope 23:23:11 <MNIM> it's still not at the top of the slope by the time it's twin tail is behind it 23:24:07 <MNIM> ....and now we have two snail trains. >.< 23:26:03 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7422B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:50:32 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 23:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause> really what do you expect from using a hopelessly underpowered diesel engine from a country that has 99.9% electrified tracks? 23:55:45 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B7422B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:55:45 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7422B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:57:20 <peter1138> wikipedia says it's a gas turbine-electric 23:57:21 <peter1138> but 23:57:28 <peter1138> maybe i'm looking at the wrong thing 23:58:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> being (internally) electric doesn't mean it can draw power from a catenary 23:58:59 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause