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00:10:19 *** Biolunar_ [mahdi@blfd-4db1a6ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 00:23:50 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-154-020.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 00:38:25 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-187-127.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:45:16 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:00:30 *** Monarch1st [~here@76-227-101-200.lightspeed.wchtks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 01:00:48 <Monarch1st> hi - anyone on tonite? 01:07:22 *** JVassie [~James@2.30.129.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:12:36 *** b_jonas [~x@russell2.math.bme.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:12:38 *** b_jonas [~x@russell2.math.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 01:15:28 <Elukka> yup 01:15:43 <Monarch1st> good! 01:16:03 <Monarch1st> got a question about a terminal station setup. do you have experience? 01:16:14 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:16:27 <Elukka> only a bit! 01:16:48 <Monarch1st> well, you probably have more than me anyway 01:17:13 <Monarch1st> i set up an 'advanced 4-bay terminal' station 01:17:42 <Monarch1st> about 2/3 the way down the page http://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_station 01:18:18 <Elukka> hmm, i've kept mine simpler :P 01:18:46 <Monarch1st> the problem is, the 3rd bay gets trains coming into it even if it is full 01:19:16 <Monarch1st> yeah, i used to have it simpler, but the city it serves is much too big now 01:20:07 <Elukka> hmm presignals (and maybe path singnals) should do it 01:20:14 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/bath-1.png 01:20:16 <Elukka> i ran this last i played 01:20:27 <Elukka> easier to build, uses much less space, though probably less efficient 01:22:37 <Monarch1st> good night thats complicated. and the advantage of this one is exiting trains dont interfere with entering ones. 01:23:01 <Elukka> yeah 01:23:03 <Monarch1st> and its only one-sided. i could put a ro-ro station in, but i'd have to destroy half the city to do it 01:23:48 <Monarch1st> do you know signals in-depth? seems to me the problem is the first signal to the right after the primary pre-signal after the entry bridge 01:25:35 <Monarch1st> i've tried a vertical-light signal, which is what it looks like in the wiki and causes this problem, and also horizontal-light signal which has its own problems 01:26:06 <Yexo> Monarch1st: it's a lot easier if you use path signals 01:26:19 <Yexo> just put a single path signal in front of the junction and no signals afterwards 01:27:09 <Monarch1st> hmm. ok. not familiar with path signals at all. i pull out this game about once a year and they're new since i last played. are they complicated? i haven't even mastered pre-signals yet 01:27:15 <Elukka> nah 01:27:19 <Elukka> path signals are the most 01:27:25 <Elukka> *most foolproof ones 01:27:26 <Yexo> if you want to use presignals the last signal before each platform should be an exit signal. The signal in front of the junction should be a presignal, all signals in between should be combo-signals 01:27:41 <Yexo> path signals are easier and if you use them you don't need any presignals at all 01:27:44 <Elukka> the rule of thumb these days is you use path signals everywhere unless you have a specific reason for using something else 01:27:52 <Yexo> unless you go for really advanced builds 01:28:55 <Monarch1st> ah, combo signals. how are they built? one-click is entry, right? two-clicks is exit? is three-clicks combo? 01:29:09 <Elukka> because my station uses path singnals, more than one train can enter and exit the station as long as their paths don't intersect 01:29:14 <Elukka> even though it's the same signal block 01:29:32 <Yexo> Monarch1st: yes 01:30:27 <Yexo> see http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals#Pre-signals 01:30:37 <Yexo> the example image uses two-way signals where it should use one-way ones 01:31:06 <Monarch1st> cool. i'll try the combo now while I read up on path. but before i start, can someone give me a one or two sentence idea what path signals are so i can hang the rest of my reading on? 01:31:46 <Yexo> "let the trains figure it all out" 01:32:33 <Monarch1st> that would be the goal, yes, but doesn't help me define what path signals are. that's how i think that pre-signals are as well 01:32:54 <Yexo> from the wiki: "There are two things you should know about this signal: 01:32:54 <Yexo> Place it only where trains can stop and wait without blocking junctions ; 01:32:54 <Yexo> This signal only works in one direction. In the other direction, it is either ignored or considered a one-way signal, depending on the signal path (see below). " 01:34:31 <Monarch1st> ok, but how does it differe from pre-signals? 01:36:06 <Monarch1st> (cool-the combo signal seems to work. its actually efficient now! excellent) 01:40:18 <Monarch1st> since it works, i'll go read up on path signals. and mark the wiki page. 01:40:21 <Monarch1st> thanks all! 01:40:21 <Elukka> "They act differently from block signals, in that they will allow more than one train to enter a signal block if theyâre definitely not going to collide. On a straight bit of track, this means they act pretty much like block signals. 01:40:27 <Elukka> If thereâs a complicated patch of track (two ways in, two ways out, for example) and two trains wonât use the same bit of track, theyâll show clear and let them both through at the same time." 01:40:57 <Monarch1st> ah. that helps. nice. very nice! thanks 01:41:06 <Elukka> they're really just better 01:41:39 <Monarch1st> does sound like it 01:43:30 <Elukka> in most situations they'll do the job of presignals too 01:44:13 <Elukka> and suppose you have a basic 2 track line with an X shaped switch between them 01:44:20 <Elukka> it'll let trains pass on the two lines if they're not going to cross to the other 01:44:22 <Elukka> block signals won't 01:45:24 <Monarch1st> that would be very nice. i've had that happen in long double-tracked lines 01:45:45 <Monarch1st> when would they *not* replace pre-signals? 01:47:39 <Elukka> i dunno, i just hear some people still use them somewhere :P 01:48:14 <Monarch1st> ha! i've got reading then 02:08:38 *** pjpe [ae5f3bfb@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 02:08:45 *** pjpe [ae5f3bfb@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 02:17:38 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:33:04 *** Monarch1st [~here@76-227-101-200.lightspeed.wchtks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 02:39:31 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:71b2:13cd:2182:d5e0] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:51:39 *** mikethete [~mikethete@70-100-79-107.br1.sma.wv.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:57:49 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 02:59:00 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 03:10:13 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:11:02 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:15:17 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 03:16:55 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 03:20:28 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 03:21:13 *** hari [~hari@202.151.199.115] has joined #openttd 03:32:54 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.84.107] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:34:19 *** hari [~hari@202.151.199.115] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 04:19:10 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.32.29.238] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 04:36:59 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B730DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B728C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:08:07 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.a212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 05:25:35 <planetmaker> moin 05:50:55 *** kig [~kig@202.151.199.115] has joined #openttd 06:03:33 *** kig [~kig@202.151.199.115] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 06:05:53 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:06:02 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:08:13 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:22:10 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 06:24:48 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:34:20 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 06:34:23 *** pikka [~yaaic@101.118.231.240] has joined #openttd 06:34:41 <pikka> mentlegen 06:35:29 <planetmaker> hi pikka 06:35:45 <pikka> hello planetmaker 06:36:09 <pikka> wie gehrts 06:36:39 <planetmaker> och, ganz gut. Und selbst? :-) 06:37:18 <pikka> bored at work. pretty much the only time I come on here... D; 06:37:29 <planetmaker> :-D 06:37:53 <planetmaker> don't sprite and drive! ;-) 06:38:05 <pikka> yes! 06:38:39 <pikka> I'm obviously not actually driving at the minute. :p 06:38:45 <planetmaker> hehe :-) 06:39:24 <planetmaker> Something I wondered about the other but didn't follow up whatsoever: do you still have sprites for water planes? 06:39:41 <pikka> did you see my feature request on flysp? :D 06:39:46 <pikka> yes I do 06:39:50 <planetmaker> iirc it should or could be feasible to already modify an existing airport such that it becomes a water airport 06:40:06 <planetmaker> uhm, no, not that I remember that FS task, but... :-) 06:40:22 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 06:40:23 <pikka> there will be two water planes in av8 2.0, in fact 06:40:32 <planetmaker> planes so far could not distinguish it, yes, but... might be nice for those who know where to send which plan :-) 06:40:39 <planetmaker> which FS task? 06:40:48 <pikka> one added today 06:40:59 <pikka> something about inflation... 06:41:08 <planetmaker> oh 06:41:13 <planetmaker> no, hadn't seen it 06:41:51 <planetmaker> sounds feasible to me 06:41:59 <pikka> :D 06:42:13 <planetmaker> but it'd need others to (also) agree 06:42:21 <pikka> yes 06:42:24 <planetmaker> which are all still asleep :-P 06:42:38 <planetmaker> 8:40 on Saturday ;-) 06:42:39 <pikka> lazy people. :) 06:42:43 <planetmaker> tsk! 06:43:28 <pikka> :) 06:43:29 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 06:43:40 <pikka> well, Saturday is Monday for me 06:43:53 <pikka> aww 06:44:39 <pikka> two rather underdressed young lasses just asked if I was their bus, and sadly I wasn't. :) 06:45:51 <planetmaker> :-D 06:46:01 <planetmaker> "underdressed". Nice word :-) 06:46:45 * planetmaker wonders how pikka looks like with 4 wheels etc... a nephew of thomas the tank engine? ;-) 06:47:08 <pikka> :D 06:47:24 <pikka> ok, if my bus was their bus. 06:47:34 <pikka> and it has 6 wheels! 06:47:43 <planetmaker> scnr ... hehe :-) 06:48:13 <planetmaker> but so it's not an articulated bus :-) 06:48:39 <pikka> it has two axles but 6 wheels 06:48:58 <pikka> there are 4 wheels on the rear axle 06:50:22 <planetmaker> yeah, most busses here (of those which are not articulated), have also 6 :-) 06:50:43 <pikka> btbuses.info/index.php?GoTo=bus&find=1332&searching=yes to be precise 06:51:24 <planetmaker> looks very familiar except for the colouring :-) 06:51:42 <pikka> we also have tag buses, which have 8 wheels on 3 axles, and artics which have 10 wheels on 3 axles. :) 06:53:14 <planetmaker> hm... :-) 8 wheels on 3 axis only? 06:54:25 <pikka> steering axle at front with 2, drive axle with 4, another steering with 2. :) 06:55:21 <planetmaker> I wonder whether I've seen such bus already. Maybe I just don't recall 06:55:34 <planetmaker> and our local traffic company has no vehicle images :S 06:55:56 <planetmaker> except for the old trams which one can rent: http://www.braunschweiger-verkehrs-ag.de/downloads/flyer_feiern.pdf 06:56:34 <pikka> ok! time to go! :o 06:56:46 <planetmaker> enjoy, pikka! :-) 07:02:08 <peter1138> ohhh 07:05:17 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-026-192.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:17:02 <pikka> ohhhhhh 07:17:18 <pikka> hello peter 07:18:48 <peter1138> hello pikka <3 07:21:54 <Terkhen> good morning 07:27:36 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Quit: *Throws a nuclear warhead in the room and flees*] 07:33:23 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:50:03 *** Kogut [d586afe1@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:50:34 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:04:46 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:04:49 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:19:51 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B728C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20:08 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B728C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:25:43 *** pjpe [ae5f3bfb@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 08:35:02 *** Beengalas [~Beengalas@nl105-254-205.student.uu.se] has joined #openttd 08:41:41 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C09B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:46:02 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 08:47:39 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:54:41 *** ZirconiumX [56039034@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:55:04 <ZirconiumX> Hello everyone. 08:55:15 <ZirconiumX> I found out what the problem was. 08:55:42 <ZirconiumX> Profile guided optimization 08:55:58 <ZirconiumX> the checksum appers to have been wrong 08:56:46 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:22:29 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 09:38:25 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe545.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:57:13 *** JVassie [~James@2.30.129.177] has joined #openttd 10:10:14 <planetmaker> hm... google home view :-D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMFBuHsKXb0 10:11:37 <peter1138> heh 10:12:34 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-154-020.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 10:19:20 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-68-209.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 10:24:11 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe545.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:38 *** ZirconiumX [56039034@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:32:32 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:33:52 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:34:56 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 10:41:36 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-241-69-141.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 10:51:22 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe545.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:53:31 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c49b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:57:08 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 11:07:29 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:507d:e9e9:4ad3:b48b] has joined #openttd 11:07:32 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 11:10:13 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.237.235.128] has joined #openttd 11:11:14 <Wolf01> hello 11:11:30 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db1a5c5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:16:57 *** Pokka [~Figgy@d114-78-19-218.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:17:02 *** pikka [~yaaic@101.118.231.240] has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org] 11:17:10 *** Pokka is now known as Pikka 11:17:24 <Pikka> what new sorcery is this? 11:18:03 <planetmaker> the difference between empty and full mouth? 11:19:42 <peter1138> hm 11:20:01 <peter1138> our gui scaling sucks :p 11:20:06 <peter1138> i mean, it's really good 11:20:11 <peter1138> way better than it wa 11:20:12 <peter1138> +s 11:20:23 <peter1138> but i'm trying to improve it :D 11:21:03 <planetmaker> it still has many rough edges, esp. when used with bigGUI grf 11:21:13 <peter1138> that's what i'm working with indeed 11:22:49 <planetmaker> :-) 11:25:22 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:26:35 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:50:13 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-68-209.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:58:02 <peter1138> i want to avoid getting sprite sizes everywhere 11:58:12 <peter1138> which is currently what would be needed 11:58:54 <peter1138> some things assign *size directly, which thus ignores the minimum size 12:02:07 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:06:17 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 12:11:27 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:19:32 *** mikethete [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 12:49:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:49:48 <andythenorth> hola 12:51:29 <Pikka> bonsoir 12:53:07 *** mikethete1 [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 12:55:23 *** mikethete [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:57:13 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-154-020.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 12:58:17 <andythenorth> monsieur le Pikka 12:58:22 <andythenorth> tres bon 12:58:29 <andythenorth> seulement anglais ici? 12:58:37 <Pikka> nein 12:58:45 <andythenorth> espanol? 12:58:49 <Pikka> oui 12:58:56 <andythenorth> hinglish? 12:59:03 <Pikka> hmaybe 12:59:03 <andythenorth> innit 12:59:16 <Pikka> innit though? 12:59:34 * andythenorth is pondering more lego trains, with more motors 12:59:47 <andythenorth> I had put them all away, but now the toddler likes them 12:59:54 <Pikka> oops 13:00:04 <andythenorth> his opinion is that 'more wagons is better' 13:00:45 <andythenorth> Terkhen: 13:00:47 <andythenorth> hola 13:00:57 <andythenorth> rv-wagons? :P :| :( :D 13:01:02 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=47033&start=80 13:01:19 <Terkhen> andythenorth: currently I'm reworking subsidies 13:01:24 <andythenorth> :D 13:01:39 <andythenorth> that won't help get big trucks into the game, but well done :) 13:03:13 *** mikethete1 [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:03:35 *** mikethete [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 13:04:21 <Terkhen> rv-wagons feels like too complex for what we would get 13:05:28 <Pikka> I've seen some interesting trucks in the city recently 13:05:43 <andythenorth> hmm 13:06:01 <Pikka> they're refurbishing one of the skyscrapers, which includes taking apart a massive concrete raised garden outside the front of it 13:06:02 <andythenorth> Terkhen: how about handling it via an improved system for refits instead? 13:06:20 <andythenorth> refitting to a certain length isn't optimal, but it's not bad 13:06:23 <Terkhen> improved how? 13:06:46 <Terkhen> to solve the autorenew/autoreplace issue? 13:07:15 <andythenorth> among other things 13:07:21 <andythenorth> also the length of the menu 13:07:31 <andythenorth> lets say I have a truck that has 1-4 trailers 13:07:35 <Terkhen> length should be fixed IIRC 13:07:36 <andythenorth> and 31 cargos in the game 13:07:39 <Eddi|zuHause> http://truckin24.de/fmbf/18.%20LKW%20-%20Modelle/01.%20Kaelble%20mit%20Culemeyer/Forumbilder/03.%20Kaelble%20mit%20Culemeyer%20%28Medium%29.jpg <-- i want RV wagons :) 13:08:54 <Kogut> @Terkhen What will be changed? 13:09:00 <andythenorth> that means maybe 124 menu entries : 13:09:02 <andythenorth> :) 13:09:07 <Alberth> Kogut: nobody knows 13:09:30 *** mikethete1 [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 13:09:37 <Terkhen> Kogut: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Cargos#Substitute_type_and_multiplier_for_town_growth_.2818.2C_19.29 13:09:42 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: do it the other way around, and you have them :) 13:10:41 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.voba-medien.de/assets/images/DB-X-E94-145-Fahrt-Culemeyer-CB-ZP-800-470.jpg <- "what is wrong with this picture" :p 13:10:48 <andythenorth> in a pathological case, I could also allow livery refits.... 13:10:53 <andythenorth> for 1CC and 2CC 13:11:01 <andythenorth> so 248 menu entries... 13:11:04 <Terkhen> andythenorth: do you mean entries in the refit menu? 13:11:09 <andythenorth> yes 13:11:25 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the only thing wrong with that picture is that I don't have the lego parts to build that engine yet 13:11:26 <Eddi|zuHause> well... split the refit gui 13:11:29 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: movable tracks? :p 13:11:29 <Terkhen> the split refit gui would solve that 13:11:32 <andythenorth> +1 13:11:38 *** mikethete [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:18:24 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-68-209.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 13:19:37 <andythenorth> Terkhen: was the interaction between partial refit and cargo subtypes really horrible to deal with? I just tried to figure it out... 13:20:25 <Terkhen> I'm not sure what you mean 13:20:39 <Terkhen> partial refit had a problem with articulated vehicles 13:21:21 <andythenorth> that's what I mean 13:22:11 <Terkhen> the problem is that NewGRF vehicles do not expect their articulated parts to have different cargos or cargo subtypes 13:23:49 <Terkhen> I don't remember the details, frosch123 explained the problem to me and IIRC it is in the thread too 13:23:53 <andythenorth> that's what I was trying to puzzle out 13:24:12 <andythenorth> I am bored of waiting for a truck set and thinking I should start one soon 13:24:22 <andythenorth> but without rv-wagons or better refits, truck sets suck 13:27:38 <Terkhen> refitting articulated parts separatedly can't happen without (IIRC) big changes to the specs, so it is not going to happen 13:28:11 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 13:33:25 *** mikethete [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 13:38:13 *** mikethete1 [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:38:53 *** mikethete1 [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 13:41:28 *** mikethete [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:45:13 <planetmaker> Kogot: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=974719#p974719 <-- that's not appreciated 13:45:33 <planetmaker> Kogut: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=974719#p974719 <-- that's not appreciated 13:45:36 <andythenorth> Pikka: I can haz testing 13:47:05 <Kogut> @planetmaker - OK, I switched to "Lorem ipsum" 13:48:44 *** mikethete1 [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:48:59 *** mikethete [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 13:49:24 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 13:51:15 <Eddi|zuHause> does nml do constant-folding on "a=b" expressions yet? 13:53:12 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:53:33 *** mikethete1 [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 13:53:48 *** theos [~Theos@ool-45726521.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #openttd 13:54:08 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:56:55 *** mikethete [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:59:02 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 14:04:26 *** mikethete [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 14:04:59 <andythenorth> Pikka: elvis rocks 14:05:13 <andythenorth> how amusing :) 14:05:39 *** mikethete1 [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:05:49 <Elukka> i went exploring some abandoned industrial spurs today 14:06:06 <Elukka> somehow it's a mix of finnish, british, and maybe belgian rail 14:06:18 <Elukka> some of it pretty old 14:06:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i'm getting crazy... 14:06:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm changing code 14:07:05 <Eddi|zuHause> but whatever i try, it always behaves the same way it did before... 14:08:43 <z-MaTRiX> hii 14:08:44 <z-MaTRiX> :) 14:09:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that typically means i'm changing the wrong line... 14:18:03 <Alberth> or a file in the wrong copy :) 14:20:09 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i now have the right sprite in the purchase menu ;) 14:21:55 <planetmaker> great :-) 14:23:19 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i still have problems with dependencies not honoured properly 14:24:05 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the only thing that works is changing generate.py 14:24:16 <Pikka> glad you like it, andy 14:24:39 <planetmaker> you're doing something entirely different than me. 14:24:40 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but neither any of the pnml file nor any other py file 14:24:51 <planetmaker> i.e it works as it should when I touch a pnml file 14:25:06 <planetmaker> the other py files... are probably not added anywhere to the deps 14:25:19 <planetmaker> they're customly added and need of course adding to deps separately 14:25:24 *** mikethete [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:25:30 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, ok 14:25:31 <planetmaker> that is not nor can be made automatic 14:25:46 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-150-188.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 14:25:54 <planetmaker> Makefile.in could contain that dep(s) 14:26:03 <planetmaker> result: script.py 14:26:11 <planetmaker> lines like that will add the dependency 14:26:55 <planetmaker> if it is not given already by a rule itself 14:28:13 * planetmaker looks 14:29:05 <Eddi|zuHause> so i put this line in there: 14:29:08 <Eddi|zuHause> scripts/generate.py: scripts/tree.py scripts/rules.py scripts/tokens.py 14:29:28 <Eddi|zuHause> or better: 14:29:32 <planetmaker> if generate.py needs changing when one of the three changes: yes 14:29:34 <Eddi|zuHause> scripts/generate.py: scripts/*.py 14:29:38 <planetmaker> no 14:29:41 <planetmaker> that's invalid 14:30:04 <Eddi|zuHause> generate needs re-executing when any of these files change 14:30:09 <Eddi|zuHause> they're submodules 14:30:35 <planetmaker> but then the *result_file* of generate.py should depend on the other *.py 14:30:38 <planetmaker> not generate.py 14:30:53 <planetmaker> as generate.py would otherwise be re-build. 14:30:56 <Eddi|zuHause> but that means duplicating 14:31:15 <planetmaker> no 14:31:27 <Eddi|zuHause> can i put like 14:31:32 <planetmaker> which file is generated by generate.py? 14:31:34 <Eddi|zuHause> GENERATE=scripts/generate.py scripts/tree.py scripts/rules.py scripts/tokens.py 14:31:36 <planetmaker> or files 14:31:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and then replace other occurances of scripts/generate.py by $GENERATE 14:32:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it currently appears twice 14:32:20 <planetmaker> $(GENERATE) != $GENERATE 14:32:27 <planetmaker> you want $(GENERATE) 14:32:32 <planetmaker> but yes, you can do that 14:32:35 <Eddi|zuHause> for engines.gnml and for *.lng 14:33:08 <planetmaker> I'll run a few more tests 14:34:58 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 14:35:19 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i'll commit this then 14:36:16 *** mikethete [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 14:39:37 <planetmaker> I'm not sure whether the 3rd occurance of generate.py which you ommited shouldn't be removed completely 14:40:21 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, yeah, that looks redundant 14:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause> so redundant that i didn't even see it 14:40:54 <planetmaker> hide it in another commit ;-) 14:41:44 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:56 <appe> http://meyerweb.com/bkkt/chew.gif 14:42:02 <appe> = me playing openttd :( 14:43:03 <Eddi|zuHause> you look eerily like bill murray 14:43:26 *** ZirconiumX [56039034@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:45:24 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 14:45:24 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 14:46:25 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:47:42 * ZirconiumX hate Xcode's fancy autocomplete mode 14:47:47 <ZirconiumX> *hates 14:48:06 *** steven [~ae15b3ac@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:49:01 *** steven [~ae15b3ac@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 14:55:46 *** Steven_ [~chatzilla@174-21-179-172.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #openttd 14:57:03 *** Steven_ [~chatzilla@174-21-179-172.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.23/20110920075126]] 14:58:33 *** mikethete [~mikethete@c-98-236-83-241.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:02:55 *** Pikka [~Figgy@d114-78-19-218.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:04:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:17:39 * andythenorth needs some help figuring out trucks and refits 15:17:59 <andythenorth> is there a gameplay case that partial refitting of RVs would be useful? 15:18:13 <andythenorth> e.g. truck with two trailers, one liverstock, one milk? 15:18:24 <supermop> yes 15:18:44 <andythenorth> what's the case? Is it really essential? 15:18:52 <supermop> generic box truck carrying various goods/supplies 15:18:55 <andythenorth> (as it's not possible...probably ) 15:18:56 <supermop> nope 15:18:58 * ZirconiumX agrees - but has not got the faintest idea what he's on about 15:19:11 <supermop> just cute for little city vans and trucks 15:19:32 <supermop> passenger car carrying one engineering supply in the trunk 15:19:45 <supermop> and four miners up front 15:20:14 <andythenorth> that's strictly two cargos on one vehicle. 15:20:18 <andythenorth> not going to happen :) 15:20:45 *** ZirconiumX [56039034@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 15:21:00 <supermop> my subaru had a shadow 15:23:09 <supermop> why do you bring it up, andy? 15:23:25 <Terkhen> because of rv-wagons 15:23:28 <Terkhen> :P 15:23:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the cases where i usually need that are e.g transferring from seaport to factory 15:24:57 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: putting passengers and ENSP into one (articulated) vehicle is actually pretty easy 15:25:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the two articulated parts must have distinct cargo refit lists 15:25:42 <supermop> like a little blue impreza? 15:26:31 <Eddi|zuHause> like an ET87 with two passenger steering cars and an engine with mail compartment 15:28:03 <supermop> if its possible might as well do it, but i am not sure how much i would need it apart from the novelty factor 15:29:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the ET87 in CETS can carry 100 passengers and 20 mail/10 goods/5 food 15:30:05 <Eddi|zuHause> the 100 passengers stays constant during refitting, and mai/goods/food you can refit freely 15:30:53 <Eddi|zuHause> (also alcohol, milk and fruit) 15:31:31 <supermop> so i was playing with aircraft last night, for the first time since tto 15:31:44 <supermop> i was losing one every 3 trips about 15:31:54 <supermop> and that is small planes at large airports 15:31:57 <planetmaker> don't send the big ones to a small airport 15:32:05 <supermop> see above 15:32:07 <planetmaker> :-) 15:32:32 <appe> http://open.spotify.com/track/1VQScHymoizrTmyKZ9lNMp <- 15:32:41 <supermop> i was using pikkas set, and sticking to only the planes that said 'small' as i had very low passenger volume 15:32:44 <Eddi|zuHause> you can turn off crashes 15:34:21 <supermop> yeah? 15:34:38 <supermop> i changed the thing in the cheat menu but it did not seem to help 15:34:48 <Eddi|zuHause> no, not that one 15:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> there's another setting for "regular" crashes 15:35:12 <supermop> hmm 15:35:22 <supermop> in advanced settings? 15:35:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 15:36:11 <supermop> ok il take a look when i get home 15:42:19 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-154-020.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 15:42:21 *** openot [~mr_robot@l49-155-158.cn.ru] has joined #openttd 15:43:50 <openot> hello, need tip for the beginner 15:44:21 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 15:44:51 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host217-43-108-215.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:45:24 <openot> i want to play with ai and use some advanced cargo routes 15:45:33 <openot> so i need tip 15:45:43 <LordAro> evening 15:45:47 <openot> hi 15:45:49 <planetmaker> hi 15:46:11 <Eddi|zuHause> openot: and we're supposed to guess the question? 15:48:28 <openot> it's like that i can download from online content so i can start playing like beginner? 15:48:43 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C09B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:21 <Kogut> yes 15:49:33 <Kogut> most ais are not very impressive 15:49:48 <openot> like i download game 10 min ago, found i need select some ai, some newgrf for more interesting routines and so on 15:50:18 <openot> but there are tons of everything in online to download 15:50:31 <Kogut> you can try game or two without newgrfs 15:50:45 <Eddi|zuHause> AIs are automatically used after downloading, GRFs you have to activate after downloading in the NewGRF settings (but not all at once!) 15:51:19 <Eddi|zuHause> many GRFs make stuff more complicated, so they're probably not suited for a beginner 15:51:28 <Kogut> especially train/industry newgrfs 15:52:20 <openot> maybe i can use some scenario for beginners and it's will contain grf and ai by itself? 15:52:25 <Alberth> hi LordAro 15:52:57 <Alberth> openot: I don't think there is much specially aimed at beginners 15:53:36 <Alberth> openot: Did you play TTD in the past, as most beginners are fine with playing without additions. 15:53:39 <planetmaker> openot: just take a random AI and a random map and you should be good 15:53:40 <Alberth> ? 15:54:07 <openot> ok, what AI is good to play with (by your opinion)? 15:54:47 <Alberth> depends on what you expectations from it. Personally, I always play without opponents 15:55:52 <Alberth> SimpleAI aims to mimic the old AI, there are also competitive AIs. There is a list of AIs at the wiki somewhere 15:55:52 <Kogut> I suggest NoCab or AdmiralAI 15:55:55 <LordAro> hi Alberth 15:56:16 <openot> ok thanks 15:56:18 <Kogut> http://wiki.openttd.org/Comparison_of_AIs 15:56:19 <Eddi|zuHause> openot: just take all AIs, and let the game randomly choose them 15:57:28 <openot> oh, it's better with wiki :) 15:57:30 * Alberth wonders how to do such a thing with NewGRFs as well :p 15:57:53 <Alberth> openot: yep, there is much information there 15:58:10 <planetmaker> Alberth: via presets 15:58:45 <Alberth> "let the game randomly choose them"? :p 15:58:53 <planetmaker> though presets currently have one big backdraw: they store the version of the newgrfs. which usually is not what I want 16:01:07 <Alberth> we need newgrf dependency resolving, so I can load a newgrf and it automagically loads other ones that i need and like 16:03:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: there are two problems with your suggestion for the two-part articulated RV solution 16:03:59 <andythenorth> 1. partial refit won't work, that's not bad in the case where lead vehicle is PAX-only, but fails for other cases 16:04:09 <andythenorth> 2. can't use drive-into roadstops 16:04:41 <andythenorth> I am trying to figure out which would be the most sane route of these 3, for a truck set 16:05:08 <andythenorth> 1. code it as per current spec allows, with each truck just having one trailer, or a fixed number, or very limited refits (like HEQS trams) 16:05:36 <andythenorth> 2. rv-wagons 16:05:40 <andythenorth> 3. don't do it 16:06:43 <Alberth> 4. use lego instead 16:07:14 <andythenorth> it's frustrating but totally resolvable 16:07:26 <andythenorth> rv-wagons would entirely solve it 16:07:47 <andythenorth> or a careful implementation using refits would be workable, with a few nasty pitfalls 16:08:55 <andythenorth> a nasty case is trucks that carry cargo and can haul trailers 16:09:19 <andythenorth> it's desirable to be able to route them to drive-into stops 16:09:26 <andythenorth> hmm 16:09:31 <andythenorth> perhaps that's what needs to be dropped 16:10:00 <andythenorth> who uses drive-into stations? For example, with HEQS, does anyone rely on routing the Mogs to those stops? 16:10:17 <supermop> ive been using them lately actually 16:10:52 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: offer the truck separately with trailer and without? 16:11:06 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that's not horrible, but not at all nice 16:11:15 <andythenorth> it makes the buy menu suck 16:11:27 <andythenorth> I like egrvts, but the buy menu is way overcrowded 16:11:32 <openot> sorry, am i right, using ECS Basic(and other) vectors i'll get more advanced industries? 16:11:58 <Eddi|zuHause> openot: yes, but they are very difficult 16:12:47 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:13:12 <openot> i already play something like this with tddpatch few years ago 16:13:46 <Alberth> FIRS is another industry set 16:14:37 <andythenorth> FIAIS 16:14:49 <andythenorth> FIAIS Is Another Industry Set 16:14:54 <andythenorth> I'm bored of FIRS 16:14:59 <andythenorth> I'm starting again from scratch 16:16:17 <Alberth> :o 16:18:20 <Kogut> ! 16:18:49 <openot> firs is in online content, - ok will try 16:19:44 <andythenorth> openot: get the latest beta release, it's way better 16:19:46 <andythenorth> I'll find a link 16:20:00 <andythenorth> openot: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/0.7.0-beta1/ 16:20:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but that won't work if he's playing stable 16:20:56 <andythenorth> oh yes 16:20:58 <andythenorth> how sad 16:22:08 <planetmaker> damn new technology ;-) 16:22:28 <andythenorth> should do it Chrome style 16:22:32 <andythenorth> no 'stable' 16:22:44 <peter1138> OpenTTD 12.1.0.362 16:22:45 <andythenorth> well kind of 16:22:47 <Alberth> everybody compiles trunk :) 16:22:58 <andythenorth> everybody compiles about 1 week behind trunk 16:23:05 <andythenorth> except for critical security failures 16:23:20 <andythenorth> how many critical security issues has ottd had? 16:23:26 <andythenorth> anything that could get your box owned? 16:23:38 <planetmaker> the box? difficult 16:23:47 <planetmaker> but maybe two, three 16:23:54 <Eddi|zuHause> call it 11.10.9.2000 16:24:22 *** Lakie [~Lakie@host86-190-25-142.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #openttd 16:24:50 <andythenorth> https://plus.google.com/105636695715347097518/posts/G9hbCEMC2wF 16:25:03 <andythenorth> "The idea was to give people a blank window with an autoupdater. If they installed that, over time the blank window would grow into a browser" 16:25:13 <Eddi|zuHause> there have been several CVEs 16:27:24 <planetmaker> sure. But not all qualify as "take over the computer remotely" 16:31:59 <Ammler> andythenorth: you like how chrome does it? 16:32:07 <andythenorth> Ammler: I have no idea 16:32:10 <andythenorth> I have chrome 16:32:18 <andythenorth> I don't notice it doing anything 16:34:47 <Ammler> might be a good way for a single user system 16:40:20 <Eddi|zuHause> we should separate the game engine from the gui, and in multiplayer synchronize it like newgrfs 16:40:36 <Ammler> what I hate on chrome was that it tells me how to browse the internet, I need to be able to rule that myself, so chrome survived around 5 mins on my pc 16:41:11 * andythenorth didn't notice 16:41:16 <andythenorth> chrome is my minor browser 16:41:34 <andythenorth> it's basically a GUI client for google docs and twitter 16:41:38 <andythenorth> I don't browse with it 16:41:40 <Eddi|zuHause> (that may also facilitate ingame update) 16:41:43 <Ammler> ah ok 16:42:27 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: is it realistic to separate game and gui? 16:42:46 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 16:43:02 <Ammler> well, openttd would also need to be able to connect with different versions 16:43:38 <Alberth> with separation you only have one game engine :) 16:43:41 <Ammler> else you will have a big mess with autoupdate and multiplayer 16:43:58 <supermop> which is your major browser? 16:44:48 <andythenorth> supermop: safari, which is stupid 16:44:58 <andythenorth> it memory leaks nearly as bad as ff 16:44:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: no, why? you'll have multiple game engines in downloaded_content, and if none of those matches the server you are joining, you download another 16:45:31 <supermop> i use opera, but i think just out of iconoclasm 16:45:36 <openot> FIRS looks like fun! 16:45:50 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: well, what would be the engine? Current openttd binary? 16:46:11 <Ammler> so you need to download 3MB almost everytime you join a server 16:46:30 <Ammler> because it most probably has a nother version 16:47:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not seeing the problem 16:48:36 <Eddi|zuHause> might want to introduce some kind of delta to the latest stable 16:49:43 <Ammler> there would still be something like a "latest stable"? 16:50:07 <Eddi|zuHause> sure 16:50:22 <Eddi|zuHause> if only to mark a reference point for the deltas 16:52:24 <Alberth> my package manager computes and downloads binary deltas all by itself already 16:52:36 <Ammler> I disabled that here 16:53:06 <Ammler> I think, it is faster to download teh whole package than applying deltas ;-) 16:54:01 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:28 <Ammler> there should be something like a min-size for delta packages 16:59:48 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-154-020.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:02:26 <Ammler> majonaise 17:08:05 *** openot [~mr_robot@l49-155-158.cn.ru] has left #openttd [] 17:08:48 <Eddi|zuHause> "schranke" 17:09:13 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:17:05 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-180-059.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 17:24:14 <Kogut> Ooo, somebody changed graphs, now it it is possible to notice all colours 17:25:10 <Kogut> now we only need extending coverage to 100 years 17:31:40 <Rubidium> Ammler: it can't be the current binary; you really won't fancy a S390 binary on your x86 machine 17:32:13 <Rubidium> the only solution I see is using some sort of intermediate language for the core 17:43:08 *** Lakie [~Lakie@host86-190-25-142.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:30 *** Lakie [~Lakie@host86-190-25-142.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #openttd 17:47:08 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-68-209.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:51:28 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:59:08 <Alberth> jvm! 18:02:39 <peter1138> openttd in java? 18:09:43 *** APTX_ [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:49 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-68-209.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 18:14:47 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 18:15:54 *** pjpe [ae5f3bfb@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:17:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.181.185] has joined #openttd 18:19:40 <appe> bill o rielly is a got damn terrorist. 18:20:44 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23:33 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6A3EE.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:24:47 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 18:27:29 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:32:45 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 18:38:45 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:46 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 18:46:20 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:49 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 19:00:02 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:00:04 <andythenorth> he 19:00:09 <andythenorth> giant airports 19:00:17 <supermop_> how giant? 19:00:25 <andythenorth> in the ottd dev forum 19:00:28 <andythenorth> *big* 19:00:50 <supermop_> just got back from lunch on a different computer, coworker is hogging the desk with the imac 19:00:58 <supermop_> ok ill check it 19:01:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C09B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:01:17 <b_jonas> link? 19:02:24 <b_jonas> ah: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=56933&p=974793&hilit=airport#p974793 19:04:29 <supermop_> hmm not how i'd lay them out but impressive 19:08:29 <b_jonas> the circle one seems unrealistic. how do people and cargo get there? 19:09:26 <Alberth> by underground metro 19:09:39 <b_jonas> Alberth: no way. people want to park there. 19:10:13 <Alberth> but.. they don't even park in city centers 19:11:26 <b_jonas> they do, here :-) 19:14:13 <supermop_> park on the tarmac 19:22:05 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: how do we want to handle company-specific livery? 19:22:50 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: e.g. take the E94, after 1950, there are 3 different liveries to choose from: DB (green, black wheels), DR (green, red wheels) and ÃBB (red, black wheels) 19:22:51 <planetmaker> I assume a simple recolour won't do for the many different companies? 19:23:08 <planetmaker> as the pattern would have to differ 19:23:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd assume separate images 19:23:32 <planetmaker> so, ^^ that's with the different patterns the colouring would have to have the only option 19:23:38 <Eddi|zuHause> but i need some way to technically distinguish that for different parameter settings 19:24:03 <planetmaker> uhm... how do you mean? 19:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean the varaction2 check 19:24:39 <Eddi|zuHause> for when someone has "mix", "core DB", "core ALL" or stuff selected 19:25:30 <planetmaker> what livery would an engine get if "core all" is selected and it could have DB or DR livery concurrently? 19:25:41 <Eddi|zuHause> for example 19:25:45 <Eddi|zuHause> random? 19:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> DB trumps all? 19:26:13 <planetmaker> livery refit? 19:26:29 <planetmaker> with initial random selection? 19:26:33 <Eddi|zuHause> livery refit is tricky for engines 19:26:48 <planetmaker> yes... :S 19:26:53 <planetmaker> then random 19:27:04 <planetmaker> otherwise one could have selected a branch 19:28:16 <planetmaker> alternatively one could introduce yet another parameter. But I'm not sure I'd like that 19:28:33 <planetmaker> like "preferred livery" 19:28:41 <Eddi|zuHause> hm. so in the tracking table we write like "epoch3:(DB:img1,DR:img2,ÃBB:img3)", and depending on parameter we make different switches 19:29:08 <planetmaker> sounds like the way to go 19:30:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i can work with that... 19:30:54 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: how are livery changes not by epoch but by date handled? 19:31:17 <planetmaker> i.e. the re-colouring of IR to IC or so 19:31:35 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: currently i have put date_of_last_service, but we could introduce a parameter for "recolour liveries: {immediately, on service, on purchase} 19:31:36 <planetmaker> or do we just move that to epoch changes? 19:32:03 <planetmaker> ah. yes, good. date_of_last_service is excellent 19:32:22 <planetmaker> more parameters there are for later to keep people happy then 19:33:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it just won't be possible to recolour anything before 1920 19:33:28 <planetmaker> and far in the future 19:33:41 <planetmaker> I thought of adding a new var which counts from 0 19:33:58 <planetmaker> as this 1920 base kinda sucks in this respect 19:34:49 <planetmaker> I guess I should actually write that patch :-P 19:34:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't found any reason yet why before 1920 is needed, but go ahead :) 19:35:07 <planetmaker> prussia, saxony or so? 19:35:31 <planetmaker> but it also fails for games which last long 19:35:51 <planetmaker> though this concept to automatically change on service for this time interval is also ok. indeed 19:35:51 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:36:00 <Eddi|zuHause> as long as nml can transparently detect by context, whether date() macros have to expand to 1920-based or 0-based, i'm fine with it 19:36:58 <planetmaker> not sure they can 19:37:01 <planetmaker> but possibly 19:39:05 *** beboj_ [~beboj@79.138.189.224.bredband.tre.se] has joined #openttd 19:39:55 <beboj_> hi 19:40:05 <beboj_> is it possible to play via android 19:40:10 <beboj_> multiplayer 19:40:11 <beboj_> ? 19:40:23 <Alberth> nope, not even single player 19:40:31 <beboj_> single is possible 19:40:41 <beboj_> pelya ported it 19:40:50 <Eddi|zuHause> beboj_: that port has not been done by us, so we don't know 19:41:06 <Alberth> maybe you should ask pelya 19:41:13 <beboj_> kk 19:41:58 <b_jonas> how large a display do you have for your android device? 19:42:04 <beboj_> 7" 19:42:11 <beboj_> its very nice 19:45:45 <PeanutHorst> ... damn, i read that in the wrong order 19:49:07 *** beboj_ [~beboj@79.138.189.224.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:54:26 <Alberth> PeanutHorst: chats usually don't top-post :) 19:55:20 <Terkhen> hmmm... those airports are really huge 19:58:00 <Eddi|zuHause> realistic airports would be 256 tiles 19:58:11 <Terkhen> :P 19:58:38 <Eddi|zuHause> damn... forgot to put "" around it... i do that always... 20:04:16 <andythenorth> hmm 20:04:28 <andythenorth> truck set - is that even on enough wish lists? 20:04:33 <andythenorth> or is it kind of done? 20:05:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: nobody has sensible truck sets... eGRVTS is weird, GermanRV is "under development" for years, ... 20:05:42 <supermop_> long trucks are too long 20:05:46 <andythenorth> why is egrvts weird? 20:05:53 <supermop_> i like it 20:06:07 <andythenorth> I ask so I can avoid 'weird' 20:06:21 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: for example it doesn't allow me to turn on "only horse-drawn vehicles" or "only trucks" 20:06:27 <andythenorth> v2 might 20:06:33 <andythenorth> did you request it? :) 20:06:38 <supermop_> id prefer a few tweaks though - not a fan of every late game tram being 4 cars long and 2 floors 20:06:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i really haven'T actually played with it more than 2 years :) 20:06:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'm pretty sure i did request it :p 20:07:04 <andythenorth> I use it in nearly every game 20:07:04 <supermop_> didn't 404 drawn new busses for it? 20:07:15 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:07:16 <andythenorth> but because it's 'generic', it does feel 'generic' 20:07:35 <andythenorth> can't complain about that, it's what it says on the box :P 20:07:43 <supermop_> i like the concept of 2-3 types of vehicle in each generation 20:07:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd much rather prefer a "european truck set" based on real trucks 20:07:53 <supermop_> i think that is something to strive for 20:10:23 <andythenorth> world trucks is quite easy 20:10:56 <andythenorth> I can figure out how to do world trucks, and allow segmentation into regions to suit the current game 20:11:03 <supermop_> didn't you start a truck set a couple years ago? 20:11:09 <Eddi|zuHause> the "progress" on this page doesn't look promising at all: http://uwe.s2000.at/ttdx/germanrv/current.php?lang=en 20:11:09 <andythenorth> I have the name :P 20:11:19 <andythenorth> what I can't figure out is how to make building trucks a good experience 20:11:34 <andythenorth> basically building RVs can suck. Building trains does not 20:11:37 <supermop_> i think 2cc set is aiming to have regions 20:11:52 <supermop_> id say dont over thing it, keep it simple 20:12:15 <supermop_> no need to include every american semi release in 2008, etc 20:12:43 <Eddi|zuHause> when basing on real trucks, you'll have lots of overlapping models with similar timeframe and similar stats 20:12:44 <PeanutHorst> i wish i could model in blender 20:12:46 <supermop_> stick to the egrvts model, for each era and region a few distinct types 20:12:54 <PeanutHorst> i havi have many ideas for train negrfs 20:13:17 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:13:17 <supermop_> if scania and mercedes made two models essentially the same, pick the better looking one 20:13:33 <Kogut> eGRVTS is way too blury/cartoonish/ugly/unrealistic/generic/strange 20:13:38 <andythenorth> trucks are remarkably easy 20:13:52 <andythenorth> most european cabover trucks will look identical at ttd scale 20:13:57 <supermop_> i like the cartoonish part - doesnt distract me from the train 20:14:05 <andythenorth> most US conventional trucks will look identical at ttd scale 20:14:10 <supermop_> yep 20:14:15 <andythenorth> australia uses european and us trucks 20:14:21 <andythenorth> as does south america and africa 20:14:26 <TWerkhoven[l]> and roadtrains 20:14:26 <Kogut> I really like german vehicles 20:14:38 <supermop_> japanese trucks are essentially the same but better decorated? 20:14:41 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 20:14:43 <Eddi|zuHause> there might be difference in development in western and eastern europe 20:15:00 <supermop_> just have a couple cab types in each generation 20:15:21 <andythenorth> for US trucks, the outline hasn't changed since about 1950 20:15:39 <supermop_> well they are more streamlined - sleeper cabs etc 20:15:45 <andythenorth> a little yes 20:15:45 <supermop_> but at tt scale 20:15:49 <andythenorth> but at tt scale... 20:15:51 <supermop_> not sure if it shows 20:15:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i was once standing and a traffic light, and thought "WTF, japan?" when looking at the truck behind me, until i realized that it was mirrored and said "PL" and not "JP" :p 20:16:37 <supermop_> we do have flush nosed cabs though 20:17:01 <PeanutHorst> i'll flush YOUR nose 20:17:02 <supermop_> just allow lots of vanity running lights on us cabs 20:17:15 <andythenorth> flush nosed? 20:17:36 <supermop_> flat, like a european or japanese truck 20:17:48 <andythenorth> cabover 20:17:57 <supermop_> and volvo makes non flat cabs that they sell in the US 20:18:01 <andythenorth> we have conventionals in europe 20:18:13 <andythenorth> volvo took over white and freightliner iirc 20:18:15 <supermop_> volvo being quite popular here with drivers 20:18:29 <supermop_> freightliner is still a brand 20:18:44 <supermop_> US drivers typically own their cabs 20:18:50 <andythenorth> russian trucks http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/big-lorry-blog/2011/10/on-a-recent-trip-to.html 20:18:51 <supermop_> companies own the trailers 20:19:42 <supermop_> so US style cabs could have random color? 20:21:00 <andythenorth> 2CC I would think 20:22:06 <supermop_> but no need to include different brands 20:22:32 <andythenorth> I'll do them like HEQS - made up names 20:22:32 <andythenorth> http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/big-lorry-blog/2011/01/-hi-brian-i-see.html 20:22:38 <andythenorth> ^ my favourite ad 20:22:41 <supermop_> also include those tiny cabs they use around ports for moving trailers and containers 20:25:57 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host217-43-108-215.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:30:17 <supermop_> there should be an industry set comprising pickles, tea, coffee, fish beer, liquor, chocolate, 20:30:39 <supermop_> i guess realistically you'd need hemp, opium, and tobacco in there too 20:30:56 <supermop_> but id be happy to do without those in tt land 20:31:25 <supermop_> salt as a raw material 20:31:42 <andythenorth> supermop: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=terminal+tractor&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=11753l11753l0l11973l1l1l0l0l0l0l213l213l2-1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&biw=1132&bih=684&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi 20:32:28 <supermop_> yeah: great for transfers, piglets, etc 20:35:42 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:37:11 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host217-43-108-215.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:37:58 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:47:51 <Terkhen> good night 20:57:07 <andythenorth> good night 20:57:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 21:04:07 <Kogut> good night 21:04:14 *** Kogut [d586afe1@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:12:47 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:25:08 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone fluent in python-magic? i need a curried version of a function like f(a,b): return a+b. so i can do g=f(a); h=g(b) 21:27:41 <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: and? 21:28:10 <Eddi|zuHause> "please tell me how to do it"? 21:28:27 <b_jonas> you just write def f(a): \n\tdef g(b):\n\t\treturn a+b\n\treturn g\n 21:30:18 <b_jonas> there's also a shortcut for simpler cases: def f(a): \n\treturn lambda b: a+b 21:31:03 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 21:31:06 <b_jonas> you want to create this python function f from python code, (as opposed to from C code), right? 21:34:32 <Eddi|zuHause> hmm... http://docs.python.org/library/functools.html#functools.partial 21:34:58 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: that, but I personally find the lambda-based solution clearer 21:36:11 <Eddi|zuHause> valhallasw: like "g = lambda b: f(a,b)"? 21:36:15 <valhallasw> yes 21:36:47 <valhallasw> that has a disadvantage though... 21:36:58 <valhallasw> the value of a is retrieved at time of execution 21:37:11 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah 21:37:12 <valhallasw> so maybe partial /is/ clearer 21:37:16 <__ln__> b_jonas: actually, 4 spaces rather than a tab is the preferred indentation for python. 21:38:21 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: you know a way to teach kate to do 4-spaces indentation in .py files, and tab in all other files? 21:42:41 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:44:46 <b_jonas> __ln__: okay 21:46:24 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: unfortunately not. 21:49:28 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 21:57:32 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host217-43-108-215.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."] 22:11:49 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-68-209.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:19:03 *** Lakie [~Lakie@host86-190-25-142.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: Slepe.] 22:27:57 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.32.29.238] has joined #openttd 22:29:59 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-150-188.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:34:32 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-026-192.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 22:38:42 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:43:00 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-85-9.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 22:43:54 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db1a5c5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 22:47:21 <frosch123> night 22:47:24 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe545.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:55 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 22:48:57 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-98-52.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:50:15 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-241-69-141.as13285.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:57:02 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:18 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:30 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:03:46 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 23:19:29 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:33:12 *** JVassie [~James@2.30.129.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:34:21 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C09B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:45 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-269593-panoV9free-sxny.jpg 23:46:11 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 23:51:08 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 23:58:10 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:13 *** Danio [Danio@83.101.65.8] has joined #openttd 23:59:58 <Wolf01> 'night