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00:10:51 <uktab> Can anyone tell me if there's a rotate screen button so I can see behind buildings etc. pls? 00:11:05 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-82-191.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:11:28 <Eddi|zuHause> use the X key to make buildings transparent 00:11:48 <uktab> Thanks Eddi :) 00:11:53 <Eddi|zuHause> (or Ctrl+X to have more settings) 00:12:22 <uktab> Thanks ! 00:24:55 <uktab> why do my $ go down by 3 every second? 00:25:10 <uktab> vehicle running costs? 00:27:09 <Eddi|zuHause> something like that, yes. you can get a more detailed report when clicking on the money icon at the top 00:27:58 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-5-60.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 00:28:01 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 00:28:27 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-5-60.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [] 00:33:05 <Eddi|zuHause> whoa... another guy who plays this mysterious version 1.1.13 00:33:25 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:38:16 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE227.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:43:26 <uktab> how can I flatten land to make my raiway track go through it ? 00:47:49 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:49:47 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:55:29 *** uktab [~uktab@host86-160-128-188.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 00:56:36 <Eddi|zuHause> with the landscape tool 00:56:43 <Eddi|zuHause> damn, too late 01:00:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AB4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:08 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE227.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:22:05 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:655f:32ae:9a2:1a64] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:03:32 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:42:47 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has joined #openttd 04:40:02 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:49:00 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 04:56:28 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B75B4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:03:13 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B72D40.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:13:36 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 05:13:36 *** George is now known as Guest13600 05:13:36 *** George|2 is now known as George 05:18:52 *** Guest13600 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:40:29 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:40:53 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has joined #openttd 06:19:07 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:35:16 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:35:19 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 06:40:41 <planetmaker> moin 06:48:47 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 07:01:01 <Terkhen> good morning 07:12:31 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:31:52 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-023-129.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:36:08 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:40:06 <Rubidium> Korenn: the town demands win32.zip is in violation with GPL. It misses at least COPYING. You also ship regression which makes little to no sense for the end users 07:43:09 <Terkhen> use make bundle :) 07:44:01 <planetmaker> hm... all people notice concurrently :-P 07:44:55 <Alberth> with interleaving concurrency semantics, yeah :) 07:53:46 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:54:51 * Arafangion peeks in. 07:55:31 <Arafangion> 64x64 maps are difficult. 07:56:01 <planetmaker> they are 07:56:10 <Arafangion> When one has every cargo transported, it seems there is little point to the game. 07:56:14 <planetmaker> unless you set running costs to virtually 0 07:56:27 <Arafangion> Oh, no, normal game. :) 07:56:39 <planetmaker> fund new industries. Grow towns. Transport more 07:56:50 <planetmaker> improve station rating. Get a score of 1000 07:57:00 <Arafangion> It's just in the year 2260, and my industries are going nuts with the amount of cargo they produce - I can't seem to tranport it all with my trains. :) 07:57:15 <Arafangion> planetmaker: Impossible to get a score of 1000, isn't it? (For these maps) 07:57:17 <planetmaker> so it's not yet "done" ;-) 07:57:19 <__ln__> fund the Apollo program and colonize the moon. 07:57:26 <__ln__> hmm, might not be possible. 07:57:45 <planetmaker> I haven't played for the score on 64**2 admittedly 07:57:49 <Rubidium> it's not impossible 07:57:56 <planetmaker> but it's a challenge 07:57:59 <Arafangion> Besides, my stations are 4-tiles in length (I don't have enough track room for longer), and I can't transport all the cargo! 07:58:07 <Rubidium> improbable is a better word ;) 07:58:18 <Arafangion> (I think I did 200 years ago, but then the industries conspired to produce more!) 07:58:44 <Arafangion> Rubidium: With such a small map, how would you get meet the 'profit' goal? 07:59:34 <Rubidium> with efficiency 08:00:01 <Rubidium> e.g. try to make money both ways 08:00:29 <Rubidium> time waiting to a bare minimum, while still maintaining station ratings 08:00:49 <Arafangion> How should I show a screenshot of the game? 08:01:01 <Arafangion> Getting the screenshot's easy, it's putting it "out there" that's not! 08:01:45 <Terkhen> use imagebin or some website like that 08:04:46 <Arafangion> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/97/fardtowntransport18thma.png/ 08:04:51 <Arafangion> That seems to do it. 08:05:24 <Arafangion> I'm not too sure about my intersection designs, but they seem to handle the load very well. 08:05:29 <Korenn> Arafangion: if you have the money, raise up all the sea to land level 08:05:41 <Korenn> that will allow more industry to appear 08:06:11 <Arafangion> Korenn: Interesting idea. 08:06:51 <Arafangion> Just raised half the land. 08:06:55 <Arafangion> I now have no money. :) 08:07:20 <Arafangion> That oilfield is new. 08:07:40 <Arafangion> I don't think Fardtown lakeside can handle any more trains, though. 08:08:04 * Arafangion puts in a new station between the power and oil refinery, pending more income. 08:09:42 * Arafangion doesn't think he will use ImageShack again, the images are blurry. 08:10:10 <Korenn> Rubidium: anything other than COPYING required? 08:10:50 <planetmaker> as said: language files are specific to a build 08:11:05 <Korenn> planetmaker: yeah, that comment of yours made no sense 08:11:08 <Korenn> but I already replied to it 08:11:18 <planetmaker> it doesn't make sense to distribute without 08:11:32 <Korenn> nobody ever implied that was the intent 08:11:34 <planetmaker> ... so you don't understand it, thus it doesn't make sense? 08:11:41 <Korenn> read the post please 08:11:47 <Arafangion> Isn't that the definition of "made no sense"? 08:12:22 * Lachie trudges in the door from work 08:12:37 <planetmaker> then learn to express yourself properly, Korenn 08:12:43 <Korenn> it's clear as day 08:12:48 <Korenn> you didn't read properly ;) 08:13:00 <Arafangion> I must say, I'm glad to have found this channel. :) 08:13:29 <planetmaker> thank you, I can read just fine. Your words are ambigeous at best, Korenn 08:13:47 <Arafangion> *ambigious. 08:14:12 <Korenn> I directly replied to a comment that Lord Aro made. You took it to be a comment to something else (I guess myself?). Not my fault. 08:14:17 <planetmaker> yes, mr smart*** 08:14:54 <planetmaker> you replied to "missing lang files?" with "no I shouldn't use 'make bundle'" Oh right 08:15:12 <Lachie> Arafangion: since you're being pedantic, it's spelt ambiguous. 08:15:32 <Arafangion> Lachie: Ah, thanks. :/ 08:15:33 <Korenn> right, so you a) didn't read the second sentence, b) didn't read the rest post before or bothered to read my comments in the OP. 08:15:46 <Korenn> since I had *just* posted a new zip wiht the lang files 08:15:56 <Korenn> and lord aro responded to taht 08:16:09 <Lachie> Arafangion: like to dish it out but can't take it back? :P 08:16:44 <Arafangion> Lachie: No, it's good to correct spelling and grammar. :) It's frustrating as heck when people don't do that. 08:17:48 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:18:00 <planetmaker> Korenn: and still Lord Aro is totally right. ;-) 08:18:12 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:18:15 <Korenn> I never said he wasn't. 08:18:18 <planetmaker> and the bundle I downloaded did not (yet) contain your (silently) updated thing 08:18:28 <Korenn> though I refuse to install MingW and fuck up my development environment again 08:18:32 <planetmaker> so how can I know you update something somewhere else when you don't say so? 08:18:40 <Arafangion> Korenn: You don't run your windows in a VM? 08:18:58 <Korenn> lol, no 08:19:03 <planetmaker> But I should remember to be quite sparingly with advice also in your case. It's obviously not welcome 08:19:07 <Korenn> planetmaker: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=975735#p975735 <- how is that not saying? 08:19:28 <Arafangion> Korenn: Then messing up your environment is a concern, indeed. :) 08:19:48 <Korenn> advice given from not actually reading the thread isn't appreciated, that's correct. 08:19:56 <Korenn> since it tends to be out of context 08:19:58 <planetmaker> that's out of my screen when reading 'newest messages' ;-) 08:20:20 <planetmaker> good good. I'll just remember your name ;-) 08:20:21 <Korenn> but I'm adding the COPYING license now 08:20:49 <planetmaker> yes, do that. technically readme would need to go, too. As gpl requires credits ;-) 08:21:03 <planetmaker> and when you're at it: add the usual documentation a bundle ships with 08:21:50 <Korenn> I think technically the credits are already in the game itself 08:21:59 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-82-191.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 08:22:08 <Korenn> but I'll add those too while I'm at it 08:24:26 <Terkhen> Korenn: http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/make.htm 08:24:34 <Terkhen> that should be enough to run Makefile.msvc 08:24:44 <Arafangion> Korenn: What is it you're doing? Making a new win32 version? 08:25:00 <Korenn> Arafangion: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=56955 08:25:09 <Korenn> Terkhen: I'll have a look at that for next time 08:25:32 <Korenn> as long as make bundle doesn't also do a compile / link task 08:25:49 <Arafangion> Ah, interesting - that's similar to what some multiplayer servers require. 08:25:51 <Korenn> and the directories for the binaries all match exactly in win / linux 08:25:59 <Rubidium> if you use Makefile.msvc it doesn't do any compilation 08:26:09 <Terkhen> Makefile.msvc only creates a bundle 08:26:14 <Korenn> ok 08:26:18 <Arafangion> Made it much more enjoyable. 08:26:20 <Terkhen> over a source checkout compiled by MSVC 08:29:09 <Rubidium> and be aware that you have to pass PLATFORM=win32 (or PLATFORM=win64 for 64bits MSVC binaries) for it to work right 08:29:35 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 08:30:04 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 08:30:27 <Rubidium> so, e.g. make -f Makefile.msvc PLATFORM=win32 bundle_zip (copies the objs/win32/release/openttd.exe to bin/openttd, then constructs the bundle and finally creates a .zip of it) 08:30:47 <Korenn> Rubidium: I'll add that to a post-build step, thanks 08:31:04 <Korenn> wait, 'creates a zip' ? 08:31:07 <Korenn> using what tool? 08:31:19 <Rubidium> zip 08:31:25 <Korenn> FileNotFound 08:31:27 <Korenn> ;) 08:31:40 <Rubidium> if you do just bundle (not bundle_zip) it only creates the bundle 08:31:47 <Korenn> ah ok :) 08:32:07 <Rubidium> though there are many other bundle_* "targets" 08:33:34 <Terkhen> it probably uses zip for bundle_zip: http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/zip.htm 08:33:55 <Korenn> Arafangion: yep, it does add to the fun. And this way, on our own server, we make all cargoes in FIRS useful and challenging to create :) 08:34:16 <Korenn> Terkhen: I'll just stick to creating the nonzipped bundle and use my own tools after 08:35:41 <Arafangion> Nice. :) 08:35:54 * Arafangion thinks it's absurd that windows doesn't have a convenient .zip implementation. 08:36:07 <planetmaker> it does. 08:36:10 <planetmaker> but not command-line 08:36:22 <Terkhen> it isn't convenient either 08:36:29 <planetmaker> :-D 08:36:48 <planetmaker> enough for the rare occasions I use windoze 08:37:05 <planetmaker> to zip a folder and be done 08:37:21 <Arafangion> planetmaker: It's not even accessible via .NET 08:40:00 <Korenn> the built-in zip is shite. I prefer third party tools like winrar or 7zip 08:46:04 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:47:12 * Arafangion increases "station spread" because he can't join stations. 08:48:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A2E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:49:11 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 08:50:19 <Korenn> Terkhen: nope, that make fails horribly 08:51:01 <Korenn> 'sed' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. 08:51:01 <Korenn> The process tried to write to a nonexistent pipe. 08:51:01 <Korenn> 'AWK' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. 08:51:01 <Korenn> 'cut' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. 08:51:01 <Korenn> 'cp' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. 08:54:28 <Arafangion> I think those are all provided as part of mingw, and other programs such as git. 08:55:12 <Terkhen> it does not fail horribly, you are missing more packages 08:55:16 <Terkhen> you can grab them from that same page 08:58:33 <Arafangion> Fascinating, one *can* have a crashed train in a depot. 08:58:43 <Terkhen> :P 08:59:26 <Arafangion> And those trains were over m each. :( 08:59:32 <Arafangion> Expensive mistake. 09:00:21 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 09:01:21 <Elukka> it does make for amusing error messages 09:01:22 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/vehicleisdestroyed.png?t=1318160729 09:02:59 <Arafangion> A bug! 09:03:05 <Arafangion> One should be able to sell them regardless. 09:03:18 <Arafangion> I sold my car for 0, for instance. 09:03:30 <__ln__> A good salesman would even sell a train that doesn't exist. 09:03:56 <Arafangion> __ln__: My car was a Hyundai, and I sold it to Ford. :) 09:05:25 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:10:17 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:14:22 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 09:14:55 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db19e4a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:17:36 <peter1138> never mind that a slight nudge kills everyone and writes off the whole train 09:19:55 <Terkhen> oh, I misread "slight nuke" 09:20:36 <PeanutHorst> that would do it too 09:21:07 <planetmaker> :-D 09:22:53 * Arafangion wishes he had time to contribute to this game, it seems awesome. 09:23:37 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/ogfx-biggui-r2.zip <-- peter1138 for your further testing 09:24:23 <planetmaker> you have time for what you take your time ;-) 09:25:39 <Arafangion> planetmaker: And right now it's about to be consumed by guacomole and more openttd playing. ;) 09:26:37 <Arafangion> The "GUI redevelopment" sounds intruguing. 09:30:15 <planetmaker> peter1138: and the arrows are now correct ;-) 09:30:18 <peter1138> heh 09:30:26 <peter1138> i'll take a look later 09:30:30 <planetmaker> I wonder though why the scrollbars use the text arrows and not the sprite arrows 09:30:43 <peter1138> raisins, hysterical ones 09:31:07 <planetmaker> the text arrows are differently aligned. And it shows at this size 09:31:13 <peter1138> one of my patches switches them so that alignment is better 09:31:16 <peter1138> so yeah 09:31:19 <planetmaker> :-) 09:31:31 <peter1138> makes it consistent with hscrollbars too 09:31:56 <planetmaker> yeah 09:33:02 <planetmaker> When I get the remaining sprites from Zephyris... we'd have a new version 09:44:38 <__ln__> http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=211667&nseq=13 09:47:41 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-038-189.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:51:10 <Arafangion> __ln__: That's nothing. :) 09:51:17 <Arafangion> __ln__: I've seen pictures of markets in vietnam, where... 09:51:25 <Arafangion> The market itself is on the train line, which is IN USE! 09:52:28 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009112.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:52:44 <Arafangion> WHen the train comes, they lower the flaps, and move the food and baskets away from the line, although they clearly know excactly how big the train is. 09:52:59 <Arafangion> If anyone lowers the train carriage by say, 2", I'm sure hell would break loose! 09:53:16 <Terkhen> hi frosch123 09:53:27 <frosch123> morning terkhen :) 09:54:33 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-77-176.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 10:00:28 <Rubidium> hi KenjiE20, regarding the admin protocol bugs. I can't find anything obviously wrong with the code at the server side for FS#4796 and FS#4803. Could you give me the code you've got to reproduce the issue? 10:02:08 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 10:03:29 <KenjiE20> Rubidium: 4803 sems to be okay in trunk now 10:06:31 <planetmaker> but... did anything in the source change? 10:07:37 <Arafangion> Do you guys have a web interface for svn? 10:07:49 <KenjiE20> dunno, but stable 1.1.2 it manifests, in r22950 it doesn't 10:07:51 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 10:12:20 <frosch123> Arafangion: hg.openttd.org 10:12:29 <frosch123> svn.openttd.org 10:12:38 <frosch123> git.openttd.org 10:12:48 <frosch123> but hg.openttd.org is the best interface :) 10:12:49 <Rubidium> vcs.openttd.org ;) 10:13:25 <Arafangion> Neat. :) 10:18:48 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.237.235.128] has joined #openttd 10:19:32 <Wolf01> hello 10:22:53 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 10:38:29 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 10:39:24 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.54] has joined #openttd 10:39:28 <peter1138> git ftw 10:39:50 <peter1138> (cgit obviously, not the raw git-over-http interface) 10:40:00 <JVassie> thats what she said 10:40:39 <peter1138> actually, i don't think she did 10:41:19 <Terkhen> me neither :P 10:42:11 <planetmaker> so if neither she nor he said it, it must have said it. 10:42:34 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 10:44:49 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:55:47 <Eddi|zuHause> * Arafangion doesn't think he will use ImageShack again, the images are blurry <-- afair there is a checkbox "do not resize image" on upload 10:55:47 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:56:07 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 10:58:20 *** Danio [Danio@83.101.65.8] has joined #openttd 11:02:12 <Terkhen> hmmmm... 11:02:51 <Terkhen> either I duplicate code, or I use a magic pointer for pointing to both towns and industries 11:03:00 *** Elu [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:03:36 <frosch123> add a shared base class for town and industry? 11:03:41 <Eddi|zuHause> template? 11:04:09 <Terkhen> hmmm... a new class just for a single method? it feels like too much just for this 11:04:28 <Terkhen> also, inheritance tends to affect performance 11:04:32 <frosch123> if you thing it remains with one method :p 11:04:41 <Terkhen> what else they could share? 11:04:55 <frosch123> everything which has to do with subsidies? 11:05:03 <frosch123> including load/save of that 11:06:01 <Terkhen> it feels like too much work just for two pointers 11:06:21 <frosch123> no idea what you want to do with them 11:06:39 <Terkhen> FindSubsidyCargoRoute uses two pointers to industry, src and dst 11:06:39 <frosch123> of course you can also just add a struct with one TownID and one IndustryID 11:06:46 <frosch123> and assert if both are assigned or whatever 11:07:05 <Terkhen> src and dst now can be of type town or industry 11:07:27 <Terkhen> hmm... I remember seeing such a struct for something else somewhere 11:07:28 <frosch123> then add src_town, src_ind, dst_town, dst_ind? 11:07:43 <Terkhen> yes, that would be duplicating code :P 11:08:01 <frosch123> well, what code? :p 11:08:15 * Terkhen goes back to finish the code 11:08:28 <Terkhen> right now I'm in the middle of it :P 11:10:22 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:10:28 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE28E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:10:37 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 11:12:14 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-19-182.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:12:26 *** Elu is now known as Elukka 11:16:47 <Terkhen> SourceID, right :) 11:18:00 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-82-191.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:20:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:23:45 <Terkhen> hmm... should we allow passenger subsidies with industry as a source? 11:24:17 <planetmaker> for ECS it makes sense 11:24:27 <planetmaker> for oil rigs? Not sure 11:24:29 <planetmaker> maybe 11:24:53 <Terkhen> true, I forgot about oil rigs 11:24:59 <Terkhen> right now there is a check to prevent it 11:25:04 <Terkhen> probably because of oil rigs 11:25:11 <andythenorth> bongiorno 11:25:27 <planetmaker> salve andy 11:25:51 <planetmaker> but subsidies for passengers to oil rigs might be fun tbh 11:26:35 <Terkhen> passenger subsidies to industries should be allowed IMO 11:26:46 <Terkhen> it only takes into account industry acceptance anyways, never industry tile acceptance 11:26:57 <Terkhen> so you will not get a subsidy for taking all the population of a town into a steel mill 11:26:58 <planetmaker> yes. I'd see no problem to get a subsidy to transport passengers to and from a remote oil rig 11:27:10 <planetmaker> :-D 11:27:19 <planetmaker> that's the case I'd be concerned about indeed 11:27:29 <planetmaker> but well. It's a museum steel mill 11:27:42 <planetmaker> with a popular and successful outreach manager 11:28:10 <frosch123> oilrigs do not process passengers either :) 11:28:17 <Terkhen> there was a steel mill on the Simpsons that accepted tourists... 11:28:36 <andythenorth> hmm 11:28:51 <planetmaker> Terkhen: our local steel mill offers also guided tours... 11:28:58 <Terkhen> :P 11:28:59 <planetmaker> and it's one of the biggest ones actually 11:29:01 <andythenorth> so...if you play with 'engines never expire' you'll end up with a lot of boats in FISH 11:29:02 <andythenorth> this is life 11:29:24 <planetmaker> that's life, yes 11:29:30 <frosch123> planetmaker: steelmills are not exactly "local" 11:29:35 <planetmaker> :-) 11:29:45 <planetmaker> frosch123: but Salzgitter is less than half an hour here 11:29:57 <planetmaker> and I can see it (at night) when they open the furnances 11:29:57 <frosch123> yeah, i was there as well :) 11:30:10 <Terkhen> and true, oil rigs do not accept passengers as an industry either 11:30:18 <Terkhen> so... no need to worry there :) 11:30:24 <planetmaker> don't they? 11:30:29 <planetmaker> I think they do 11:30:29 <Terkhen> nope 11:30:34 <Terkhen> check the industry chain 11:30:48 <planetmaker> hm. Interesting. So they just generate them? 11:30:50 <planetmaker> Curious 11:31:13 <Terkhen> they accept it because of their industry tiles too, but since subsidies only check industry acceptance/production, you will not get subsidies to deliver passengers there 11:31:17 <Terkhen> only to take them elsewhere 11:32:45 <frosch123> planetmaker: tile acceptance = station nearby accepts them; industry acceptance = industry processes the stuff 11:33:17 <Terkhen> hmm... 11:33:23 <planetmaker> Hm, but oil rigs produce passengers, do they? 11:33:43 <Terkhen> currently, the subsidy code limits cargo subsidies with a town destination to towns with a population greater than 900 11:33:48 <frosch123> yes they procude them, the tiles accept them, but it does not process passengers into oil 11:34:03 <Terkhen> does this makes sense, given that this also handles mail subsidies? 11:34:12 <planetmaker> :-D @ frosch123 11:34:13 <Terkhen> I wonder why it has a limit 11:34:24 <planetmaker> "Babyöl" 11:35:15 <Terkhen> what is that? 11:35:20 <planetmaker> Terkhen: presumably small villages don't accept much <whatever> 11:35:31 <planetmaker> baby oil 11:35:44 <planetmaker> olive oil 11:35:48 <Terkhen> hmm... but now I know exactly which cargos can be accepted by a given town 11:35:50 <planetmaker> crude oil 11:36:02 <planetmaker> which doesn't fit a pattern 11:36:07 <Terkhen> soylent oil 11:38:33 <frosch123> Terkhen: german has a way to combine two words into one which does the tell the direction of the implications between them. "dogsnack" might be a "snack for dogs", or a "snack consisting of dogs"; "babyoil" might be "oil for babies" or "oil made of babies". 11:38:48 <frosch123> s/the/not/ 11:39:22 <Terkhen> I see :) 11:42:25 <planetmaker> in any case, the oil name you gave lead me to this link: http://www.oilempire.us/soylent.html :-d 11:42:43 <planetmaker> would win a crack pot price for sure 11:45:20 <Terkhen> heh 11:45:36 <Terkhen> I haven't read the book, I know the term from seeing lots of references :P 11:45:44 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-77-176.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:46:03 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE28E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46:26 <planetmaker> the book is well worth reading 11:47:39 <Terkhen> :) 11:58:11 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 12:01:55 <Eddi|zuHause> man this google spreadsheet is seriously memleaking 12:02:04 <Eddi|zuHause> or it's firefox in general... 12:03:00 <Alberth> firefoxoil? 12:03:06 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: generally the number of bugs growth quadratically compared to the version number 12:03:27 <frosch123> so, consider the progess of firefox in the last year :) 12:03:52 <frosch123> ms otoh did it right from 2000 to 8 12:04:10 <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p 12:04:50 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75B4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05:05 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75B4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:06:02 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you need to use the google native client for google docs 12:06:04 <andythenorth> i.e. chrome 12:06:13 <andythenorth> it mem leaks horribly in FF and webkit 12:06:22 <andythenorth> webkit / safari /s 12:06:29 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 12:06:36 <andythenorth> which is interesting, because chrome uses webkit afaik 12:06:39 <Terkhen> yes, it shouldn't 12:14:25 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 12:26:11 <andythenorth> ok, so now I have 5 generations for one of the freighters in FISH 12:26:22 <andythenorth> each is a unique model so it can be replaced / upgraded 12:26:34 <andythenorth> the graphics for each will be different 12:26:38 <andythenorth> what else should change? 12:26:46 <andythenorth> speed? capacity? cost? running cost? 12:27:01 <andythenorth> linear improvement for each generation? 12:31:59 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-202-169.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:35:42 <andythenorth> meh 12:35:47 <andythenorth> nobody cares apparently :D 12:37:46 <planetmaker> capacity should increase 12:37:57 <planetmaker> as with increased playing time industry output will be increased 12:38:25 <andythenorth> speed also 12:38:35 <andythenorth> I think it will just be slow and annoying from 1870-1900 12:38:38 <andythenorth> :) 12:42:13 <Pinkbeast> Keep 'em cheap early, it's hard enough to make money in 1870. 12:42:29 * andythenorth adds one ship that will fill 64 NARS 2 box cars :) 12:43:52 <Elukka> not sure about capacity increases 12:44:12 <Elukka> ships of all sizes will be needed at all times, though maybe not the biggest ones at the start 12:44:47 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-202-169.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:45:34 <andythenorth> game needs progression 12:45:37 <andythenorth> otherwise it's boring 12:45:48 <andythenorth> even predictable linear progression is better than none 12:45:55 <Elukka> sure, but i don't think increasing capacity is necessarily the way to go 12:45:56 * andythenorth ponders regression - ships get smaller and slower :P 12:46:15 <andythenorth> Elukka: feel free to make suggestions 12:47:11 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-038-189.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 12:47:34 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-202-169.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:47:42 <Elukka> speed is an obvious one, running costs too 12:48:03 <Elukka> i think capacity improvements should come in the sense of entire new lines of bigger ships, not new generations of existing ones 12:48:38 <andythenorth> so ships come in classes - relating to size 12:48:41 <Elukka> ie if a small freighter in 1900 carries 100 tonnes, a ship of the same size should still carry 100 tons in the year 2000 12:48:55 <andythenorth> for gameplay reasons? Or to match RL? 12:49:09 <Elukka> but in 2000 you can get humongous bulk freighters and container ships that simply didn't exist before 12:49:21 <Elukka> both 12:49:26 <Alberth> flying ships of course 12:49:36 <andythenorth> Alberth: they are zepellins :P 12:49:43 <andythenorth> or ekranoplan 12:50:05 <andythenorth> Elukka: it's a nice idea, but the upper size of ships in TTD is capped quite firmly 12:50:15 <Alberth> yeah, boats are obsolete, zeppelins are the future! 12:51:06 <andythenorth> so which way should costs go? Up? Down? Or level? 12:51:10 <Elukka> hmm 12:52:26 <Elukka> well by humongous i mean more the cargo capacity 12:53:43 <andythenorth> the biggest FISH ship will have 1408t, and is a large jump from the previous model which was 1080t 12:53:50 <andythenorth> it appears around 1997 12:57:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: same way as rockets are obsolete, and shuttles are the future? 12:58:01 <Alberth> nah, we'll have space elevators 12:58:24 <frosch123> http://xkcd.com/962/ 12:59:54 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, we have wingsuit jumping, why would we need intergalactic travel? :p 13:05:28 <andythenorth> it would be nice if....instead of dicking around with prop 1B and some kind of pseudo bubble sort running only in my brain... 13:05:39 <andythenorth> ...there was just a newgrf prop which was a list structure of IDs 13:05:40 <andythenorth> :P 13:05:49 <andythenorth> (prop 1B is menu order for ships) 13:06:03 <andythenorth> hysterical raisins no doubt 13:07:50 <andythenorth> doesn't bloody work as expected either 13:08:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i agree 13:09:12 <andythenorth> so I have 5 vehicles gen1-gen5 13:09:29 <andythenorth> for hysterical raisins on my side the IDs are out of sequence 13:09:39 <andythenorth> I can't fix that and maintain savegame compatibility 13:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> yep, i know the problem 13:09:53 <andythenorth> and I can't put them in the right order. 13:10:03 <andythenorth> 1B doesn't work as advertised 13:10:57 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-150-222.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 13:11:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure you just did not read the advertisment right, but i'm equally sure that it's not a good way to handle things 13:11:53 <andythenorth> :) 13:12:28 <andythenorth> so the correct order would be (pseudo IDs): 02, 03, 04, 01, 05 13:12:41 <andythenorth> so prop 1B for 01 is set to 05 13:12:53 <andythenorth> for 04 it's set to 01 etc 13:13:34 <Eddi|zuHause> mind you that prop 1B is executed in the order that it appears in the grf 13:14:13 <andythenorth> ok 13:14:19 <andythenorth> so I have to put my code out of order :) 13:14:24 <andythenorth> this is going to be fun :o 13:14:37 * andythenorth will have to leave lots of comments behind 13:14:38 <Eddi|zuHause> only the parts that set 1B, not any other parts 13:14:58 <Eddi|zuHause> so basically after all your normal code, you handle prop 1B separately 13:15:59 <andythenorth> ach 13:16:04 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-77-176.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 13:16:05 <andythenorth> I'll put it all in one include file 13:16:08 <andythenorth> that's quite logical 13:16:19 <andythenorth> like a list :P 13:16:56 <Eddi|zuHause> pretty much :) 13:18:46 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-77-176.as43234.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:36 <andythenorth> works 13:25:21 * andythenorth wants engines expire to be both true and false at once 13:25:45 <andythenorth> toggle in the buy menu? 13:25:49 <andythenorth> 'current models' 13:25:54 <andythenorth> 'historical models' 13:26:36 <Terkhen> new filter in the buy menu: vehicles newer than X 13:26:36 <Elukka> i'd love that 13:27:16 <Arafangion> I think historical engines should become progressively more expensive, if you want to be realistic. ;) 13:27:19 <andythenorth> Terkhen: just use the model life 13:27:50 <Elukka> considering historical engines are generally repaired and not built from scratch, i'm not so sure 13:34:36 <Arafangion> Elukka: Only if you kept them. 13:35:08 <Elukka> i wouldn't think that the locomotives you specifically built and used are literally the only ones in the ttd world 13:35:41 <Arafangion> Elukka: So, you want someone else's prized relic? 13:36:08 <Elukka> i'd just keep the expiry dates and original prices, honestly 13:36:44 <Arafangion> What about running expenses? 13:37:01 <Arafangion> Although I suppose that's very debatable. 13:38:09 <Elukka> keep them too because it's not like it's going to make a significant difference in game 13:38:14 <Eddi|zuHause> some museum vehicles actually take over commercial transports 13:38:20 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:40:43 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-9-230-236.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 13:43:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C359.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 13:48:44 <Danio> Can anyone tell me what I might be doing wrong here? http://minus.com/lWexVmGNTPSc0 Train 14 is just supposed to go to the station on the right, but is instead just looping around. The signals on the right are two-way path signals. 13:49:10 <Elukka> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/3450_-_Pretoria_250481.jpg 13:49:13 <Elukka> cool locomotive 13:49:37 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.180.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:49:56 <Elukka> danio: looks like you haven't electrified the station area 13:51:42 <Danio> Elukka: Yes! Thank you! 13:52:01 <Elukka> i do that all the time and spend a good while pondering what i did wrong :P 13:52:08 <Danio> xD 14:01:24 <Eddi|zuHause> usually happens on overbuilding the station for me... 14:03:41 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Railway/IMG_3426.jpg 14:03:45 <Elukka> had a go at weathering the cab 14:04:31 <Korenn> Elukka: looks cool, but you'll have to do the plastic bits at the bottom too 14:04:35 <Korenn> or nobody will notice 14:05:10 <Elukka> yeah 14:05:15 <Elukka> just haven't gotten around to it 14:05:39 <Korenn> do you usually paint them yourself? or just for detail? 14:06:15 <Elukka> i just weather them 14:07:52 <Elukka> i'm not confident enough with my skills to do any permanent weathering, so that's pastel chalk and mostly watercolor, of all things 14:07:57 <Elukka> i'm surprised watercolor worked out 14:12:24 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 14:22:49 <Terkhen> bbl 14:24:24 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@vpn91.ext.espci.fr] has joined #openttd 14:26:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: then check how it looks after 3 months, or 5 years :) 14:26:55 <Elukka> there probably won't be much left in 5 years 14:26:59 <Elukka> can always reapply it or use other methods 14:27:49 <Elukka> the main problem i can see is cleaning dust off it 14:30:54 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:38:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:39:46 <Eddi|zuHause> use an air filter so dust doesn't gather :) 14:40:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:42:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 14:54:10 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-202-169.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:54:55 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-202-169.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:23:37 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:24:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 15:35:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:41:34 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:44:24 *** _maddy [~plaiho@212.213.105.225] has joined #openttd 15:47:30 <_maddy> to make industries increase production, is it better to always have train waiting at the station, or let some material pile up between pickups 15:48:13 <Eddi|zuHause> the former 15:48:43 <Elukka> i wish it wasn't so 15:48:55 <Elukka> it's a bit silly 15:49:23 <_maddy> so better rating means industry is always more likely to increase production? for some reason mine usually decreases if I keep trains waiting (probably just bad luck with randomness) 15:49:37 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-202-169.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:49:47 <Elukka> better rating increases the chances of production increases, yes 15:50:06 <Ammler> Elukka: how would it be less silly? 15:50:32 <Elukka> why would an industry demand that there always be a train standing on the platform? 15:50:34 <Eddi|zuHause> well, andythenorth could finalize the new firs supplies algorithm 15:50:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that would be less silly, combined with new station rating algorithm 15:50:55 <Ammler> for the industry, the cargo is gone 15:51:25 <Ammler> so that is definitively better 15:51:29 <Elukka> there's a new station rating algorythm? 15:51:37 <Elukka> ammler the whole system is a bit silly 15:51:45 <__ln__> Elukka: english only 15:52:01 <Elukka> huh? 15:52:58 <__ln__> Elukka: your spelling of 'algorythm' is not english. 15:53:06 <Elukka> ...that would be a typo, yes 15:53:28 <Elukka> it's not any other language either as far as i know 15:54:05 <Elukka> are you being serious 15:54:40 <__ln__> the topic is serious. 15:54:43 <Ammler> "english" isn't English either :-) 15:56:12 <Elukka> what the hell 15:56:43 <Elukka> 'english only' doesn't mean YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO TYPO WORDS, IT SOUNDS FOREIGN 15:56:48 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-038-189.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 15:57:30 <Ammler> why should it allow to mistype? 15:58:06 <Elukka> what 15:58:16 <Ammler> anything 15:58:32 <Elukka> can you rephrase that sentence because the structure isn't really english 15:58:41 <Ammler> :-D 15:59:07 <__ln__> if the topic doesn't explicitly allow typos, they must be forbidden. 15:59:28 <planetmaker> New sentences start with a capital character 15:59:29 *** Strid__ [~Strid@c-4cc7e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:39 <Elukka> Sentences end with a punctuation mark. 15:59:58 <planetmaker> , but my sentence wasn't finished. ;-) 16:00:04 <Elukka> ln you've got to be trolling 16:00:08 <Elukka> please tell me you're trolling 16:00:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Interpunctation does never start on the new line. 16:00:39 <planetmaker> ...not? 16:00:44 <planetmaker> ;-) 16:01:33 <andythenorth> the new algorythm is FIRS specific 16:01:56 <planetmaker> But Algol isn't FIRS-specific. 16:02:06 <Elukka> algol is a star! 16:02:17 <planetmaker> don't you say! 16:02:17 <Elukka> andy i'm okay with that since i'm gonna use FIRS :P 16:02:20 <Elukka> what's it do 16:02:53 <planetmaker> Elukka: actually... It's two stars to be precise ;-) 16:03:12 <Elukka> dammit! 16:03:13 <Elukka> you're right 16:03:51 <planetmaker> it's the prototype of the ... algol variables ;-) 16:03:56 *** _maddy [~plaiho@212.213.105.225] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:04:50 <Elukka> trivia: nu scorpii is likely a septuple star 16:05:05 <Eddi|zuHause> algo'ol? 16:05:53 <Elukka> my brain is dispensing more trivia and wants to tell you that algol means 'the ghoul' which is a word originating from arabic 16:06:17 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 16:06:17 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of words starting with al- are loanwords from arabic 16:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> especially spanish is full of those 16:06:32 <Elukka> they removed the 'al' from 'ghoul' in english 16:06:32 <Elukka> yeah 16:06:45 <Elukka> although there are alghouls in the witcher game :P 16:06:59 <Eddi|zuHause> al is actually the arabic article 16:07:16 *** SystemParadox [~simon@proxima.systemparadox.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:07:17 <Elukka> yeah 16:07:20 <Elukka> they're the the ghouls 16:11:24 <planetmaker> رأس اÙغÙÙ let's spell it properly ;-) 16:13:01 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's actually three stars 16:16:08 *** Strid__ [~Strid@c-4cc7e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 16:16:28 <planetmaker> yes, just found out that, too 16:17:15 <Elukka> almost all of the non-boring star names are arabic 16:19:07 <Eddi|zuHause> well, lots of modern astronomy is based on arabic research... 16:19:46 <Eddi|zuHause> after europe fell into the dark ages, the arabic world was the center of science 16:19:48 <planetmaker> yup. They were the maintainers of knowledge through the middle ages 16:21:51 <Eddi|zuHause> that was before europe revived itself and in turn the arabic world fell into a dark age... 16:21:56 *** Elu [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:22:42 <Eddi|zuHause> but that may very well swing backwards over the next 100 years :) 16:22:54 <Elu> did i miss anything? 16:22:58 <Elu> my connection sucks at the moment 16:23:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 16:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause> @logs 16:23:03 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 16:23:14 <Elu> useful 16:25:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:26:32 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:30:27 <Elu> Eddi|zuHause: do you have any reference for the length of prussian tank cars? 16:30:31 *** Elu is now known as Elukka 16:30:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Elu: not really 16:30:53 <Elukka> gonna do something that looks right then 16:45:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23030 /trunk/src/company_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4796]: always show a chat message and send an admin packet when a new company is made 16:47:00 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:47:03 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 16:47:41 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9d40:feea:2e9f:c403] has joined #openttd 16:47:44 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:48:00 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 16:51:37 *** jpx_ [~jpx_@a91-156-241-104.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:54:38 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 16:54:49 <Eddi|zuHause> gnahh... 16:55:54 <Eddi|zuHause> nml bails on "var[0x61, 0, 0xFFFFFFFF, date_of_last_service]" with "Variable parameter must be a constant number" 16:58:59 <Eddi|zuHause> now i need to make a lookup table for variable names and their numbers to work around that... 17:00:39 <Alberth> you can also hack nml :) 17:05:28 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... it's even more complicated... 17:05:36 <Eddi|zuHause> since i have to mask out the right bits... 17:06:12 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-038-189.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:07:12 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:07:56 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-060-227.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 17:15:52 <planetmaker> jo, this is nice. Variable 0x80 for canals seems to return height in increments of 1 instead of increments of 8 like all other variables which report tile height... 17:16:50 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the right time to switch it for all other variables :) 17:21:25 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-202-169.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:23:00 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-202-169.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 17:23:25 <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to the idea that you can append parameters to any variable, so i could write date_of_last_service(-1) and it expands to var61 17:23:30 <Eddi|zuHause> ? 17:27:05 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:41:51 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 17:51:13 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-9-230-236.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:51:33 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:01:11 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 18:05:24 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:07 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@vpn91.ext.espci.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:24:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:42:35 <andythenorth> in the game - who pays the cost of loading/unloading ships? 18:43:58 <Eddi|zuHause> what cost? 18:52:30 <andythenorth> I am thinking about variable running cost for ships 18:52:45 <andythenorth> but the greatest cost of break-bulk shipping is cargo handling 18:52:53 <andythenorth> so do costs go up or down whilst loading/unloading? 18:57:30 <planetmaker> they're paid by the person paying the transport 18:58:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's a running cost callback. but unfortunately there is no variable for "is currently loading" 18:58:31 <Alberth> if you pay for loading, you have an incentive to minimize it 18:58:38 <planetmaker> they're transit items 18:59:43 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:02:42 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-19-182.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 19:04:20 * andythenorth thinks ships are cheaper to run while loading 19:04:36 <andythenorth> either extend running cost cb, or just use speed as a proxy 19:04:50 <andythenorth> or don't bother with variable costs 19:04:53 <andythenorth> I reckon 19:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there would need to be a difference whether the ship is just sitting at the dock, or actually loaded something the last X ticks 19:08:58 <andythenorth> assuming shipper pays lading cost, both situations are same to me 19:09:21 <andythenorth> ship at dock = reduced crew, no fuel burnt 19:09:25 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-15-17.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:19:17 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-110-87.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:19:56 <Eddi|zuHause> mÀh... random action type 84 doesn't really fit into my schema... 19:22:31 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 19:24:22 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-15-17.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:25:33 <Eddi|zuHause> mÀh... i broke it :( 19:25:53 <Eddi|zuHause> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/646/ 19:27:41 <Eddi|zuHause> current cets with this patch: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/random_switch.diff 19:29:00 <planetmaker> nice. Better post it to the bug tracker, though. Yexo and Hirundo seem to be afk 19:29:16 * Yexo is not afk anymore 19:29:21 <Yexo> anything important I missed today? 19:29:28 <planetmaker> not much. 19:29:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: a critical nml bug 5 minutes ago :) 19:29:43 <planetmaker> I wondered about the value range of var 0x80 of canals 19:30:00 <planetmaker> but those two things are mostly all 19:30:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess nobody was insane enough to use random action type 84 before... 19:30:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll open a ticket 19:30:38 <Elukka> what does cets need a patch for+ 19:30:39 <Yexo> please do 19:30:40 <Elukka> *? 19:31:02 <Yexo> I know Hirundo did plan at some point to remove random_action completely and replace it by something slightly different 19:31:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: that patch is a not-yet-checked-in modification 19:31:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: i didn't want to check in something that is known to throw compiler errors 19:32:01 <Elukka> heh, i see 19:32:58 <Elukka> o_O 19:33:03 <Elukka> what's the baureihe A2? 19:33:05 <Elukka> looks really weird 19:37:17 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:38:18 <Eddi|zuHause> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wittfeld-Akkumulatortriebwagen 19:40:01 <Eddi|zuHause> it looks kinda disputed whether it was called "A2" or "AT3" 19:44:13 *** b_jonas [~x@russell2.math.bme.hu] has left #openttd [] 19:44:58 *** yrol [~yrol@hmbg-4d065dda.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:45:08 <yrol> Greetings :o) 19:45:14 <PeanutHorst> geekings! 19:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> greekings 19:46:14 <Elukka> i see it looks just as weird in real life 19:46:25 <yrol> i have a slight problem here with an AI that has autoreplaced its locomotives with a 1HP snowplough and thought i ask here if someone would know how to fix that 19:47:09 <Eddi|zuHause> yrol: look at the AI's thread in http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=65 19:47:33 <andythenorth> FISH ships will use CC hulls from 1870 onwards. Completely unrealistic. Should I care? 19:47:52 <Elukka> hmm. 19:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: sails in CC :) 19:48:20 <andythenorth> no sailing ships 19:48:27 <yrol> Eddi|zuHause, hmmm ( makes looky looky sounds) 19:48:34 <Elukka> maybe you could find some way to include company colors without coloring the whole hull 19:48:45 <Elukka> but then i don't like company colors anyhow 19:50:00 <andythenorth> I'm doing it because I can't be arsed to redraw 8 angles on 2 large hulls 19:50:04 <yrol> so there is no immediate fix for my problem? cant u somehow take over the AI and reverse the replacement, or... save, then reload without the set that supplies that snowplough? 19:50:41 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.99.18] has joined #openttd 19:50:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yrol: you can cheat yourself into the company 19:50:58 <Eddi|zuHause> yrol: but that may break more things that you fix 19:51:14 <yrol> because, frankly, if it cant be fixed ingame or so, my game is pretty much ruined as other AIs certainly also would do such replacement and thusly ruin the whole game 19:51:46 <yrol> °nods° i see. i have to start anew then, i think 19:52:01 <Yexo> yrol: it depends on which AI you use 19:52:17 <andythenorth> Elukka: you're still at the enthusiastic phase of spriting 19:52:17 <Yexo> if other companies are controlled by different AIs, only the one company you have now is ruined 19:52:21 <yrol> Yexo, let me check... 19:52:34 <andythenorth> rather than the, "oh, why did I start this task?" phase 19:52:35 <andythenorth> :D 19:53:02 <Elukka> i dunno 19:53:11 <Elukka> considering how slowly i get things done i might be in the second phase already :P 19:53:28 <andythenorth> I like drawing buildings, but vehicles are a massive chore 19:53:42 <andythenorth> I draw it, then I have to draw the other 7 angles :P 19:53:49 <Elukka> yeah since you have to draw the same thing many times 19:53:52 <andythenorth> any chance we could switch to a 3D engine? 19:54:20 <Elukka> ship sprites are big enough that it just might make a bit of sense to render a 3D model and overpaint it? 19:54:23 <Yexo> you could model the vehicles in a 3D program and render them? 19:54:33 <andythenorth> Elukka: that's how most of FISH is done 19:54:40 <Yexo> zephyris has done so with great success for grvts 19:54:43 <andythenorth> drawing hull shapes by hand is a no-go 19:54:50 <Elukka> heh, i see 19:55:05 <Elukka> i don't really see how it'd be of much use with road vehicles or trains though 19:55:10 <Elukka> i'd be interested in knowing zephyris' methods 19:55:28 <Yexo> he uses quite a few scripts all merged together 19:55:31 <yrol> Yexo, only the admiral AI did that, with all its trains ( some arent replaced yet, i guess, because all the other trains block the tracks with their snailish manners. 19:55:45 <Yexo> I have an (old) copy of them somewhere, but not sure if he'd like me to distribute that 19:55:50 <andythenorth> 3D pre-processor for nml? 19:56:35 <Yexo> that has nothing to do with nml. It could work the same way as that a lot of png files in the opengfx repo are automatically generated from gimp files (which nml can't read) 19:57:00 <andythenorth> ok 19:57:09 <andythenorth> so maybe part of the makefile framework... 19:57:17 <andythenorth> I was thinking it would happen at compile time :) 19:57:23 <andythenorth> of course, then it would take ages 19:57:41 <Elukka> the problem i'd have is how do you make a renderer make pixel arty stuff 19:57:45 <Yexo> as long as it's only done when the model files changes that doesn't matter 19:58:08 <andythenorth> Elukka: you'd need a very carefully tweaked renderer 19:58:23 <Elukka> even without any texturing, just having the shape would make things a lot faster 19:58:34 <Elukka> i haven't a clue how to tweak it like that :D 19:58:36 <Elukka> or where to start 19:58:43 <andythenorth> it would need a custom shader 19:58:49 <Elukka> that's way beyond me 19:58:59 <Elukka> all i can do is make models and pick some options and click 'render' 19:59:53 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes, building OpenGFX from graphics source now takes indeed ages 20:00:07 <planetmaker> if you generate all pngs which are feasible to be generated 20:00:28 <planetmaker> any other method to generate graphics files could easily be included as well 20:00:52 <yrol> okies, thanks then. and big thanks for integrating the new station GUI in release :o))) 20:01:06 <planetmaker> e.g. for houses Zephyris has a nice ImageJ script collection 20:03:35 <andythenorth> now I have to do something about this :) http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2044/new_coasters.png 20:04:23 *** yrol [~yrol@hmbg-4d065dda.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 20:04:29 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:04:37 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:06 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.99.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:40 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.196.52] has joined #openttd 20:07:12 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-110-87.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:14:34 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:41 *** JVassie_ [~James@2.25.196.52] has joined #openttd 20:20:50 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.196.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:22:48 <MNIM> dude, andy, are you gonna build that much? 20:24:14 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-110-87.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:24:15 * andythenorth needs a coal sink in FIRS, like a power station or something :P 20:28:50 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-110-87.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:34:51 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.119] has joined #openttd 20:36:05 <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p 20:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause> let houses built before 1970 accept coal 20:36:58 <Elukka> why not just have a power plant 20:37:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: because he removed them 20:37:22 <Elukka> i know, but i don't get why :D 20:40:07 <Rubidium> coal is dirty 20:40:42 *** JVassie_ [~James@2.25.196.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:40:45 <Rubidium> it's so bad that it puts CO2 and nuclear material into the atmosphere ;) 20:42:16 *** JVassie_ [~James@2.25.210.119] has joined #openttd 20:42:59 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23031 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): -Fix [FS#4804]: for the admin "bots" there was no distinction between bankruptcy and manual removal of companies even though the API suggested that 20:44:11 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:46:10 <Elukka> coal's pretty bad, yes 20:46:17 <Elukka> it's a thing that's used though 20:47:00 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: were the cets templates hand drawn or rendered? 20:47:18 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I only need this since the ratings algorithm got changed... 20:47:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: hand drawn 20:47:37 <Elukka> hm 20:47:55 * andythenorth has a map full of insane amounts of cargo waiting 20:48:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: lower initial production :) 20:48:43 <andythenorth> it's not that high anyway 20:48:55 <andythenorth> supplies algorithm :P 20:49:20 <andythenorth> waiting on the maker of planets :) 20:52:09 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.119] has joined #openttd 20:52:12 *** JVassie_ [~James@2.25.210.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:56:22 *** JVassie_ [~James@2.25.206.0] has joined #openttd 20:57:41 <Elukka> what kind of perspective does openttd use? 20:57:43 <Elukka> projection i mean 20:58:21 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-110-87.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:58:32 <Elukka> dimetric? 20:58:56 <SpComb> isometric 20:59:00 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 20:59:28 <Elukka> is it really? 21:00:25 <andythenorth> good night 21:00:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:00:37 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:00:49 <SpComb> it does the whole 60° / 120° thing, iirc 21:02:21 <Elukka> hmm 21:03:07 <Elukka> well turns out i haven't a clue how i'd coerce kerkythea into actually rendering things with the right projection from the right angles 21:03:39 <Elukka> apparently someone's figured it out for blender though... 21:10:22 <Elukka> well, i guess i'll look into that tomorrow 21:25:55 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:31:15 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.32.29.238] has joined #openttd 21:37:13 <Wolf01> 'night 21:37:17 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.237.235.128] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:04:44 <__ln__> hmmm, i logged into my cell phone as root through ssh. maybe i should disable root logins. 22:06:31 <Terkhen> good night 22:09:42 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:32:00 <z-MaTRiX> ;>> 22:32:26 <z-MaTRiX> __ln__<< maybe you should disable unencrypted dataflow in the newtork direction 22:32:41 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:46:54 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-023-129.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... 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