Log for #openttd on 18th October 2011:
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04:57:33  <yrol> Greetings :o)
04:58:07  <yrol> is it possible ( i looked but cannot find such a feature ) to search only in one specified thread in the forum?
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05:04:44  <SpComb> there's a search box at the bottom left
05:09:33  <yrol> ah wonderful, thankees :o) i feared i had to read all 90 pages now
05:18:30  <yrol> i use chills patchpack v13.5 ( altest version ) ( he apparently has left for good, according to a post in the forum, so i cant ask there/him ) and tried now half a dozen files that were linked to in the various threads, but to no avail... can someone here maybe help me with this problem? ( takes a while to load, sorry ) is this a known problem?
05:20:30  <yrol> textexplanation: when i zoom out and move the map, the areas outside of the palyablemap have weird graphics and smear around when i move the mouse
05:21:13  <Pinkbeast> I infer you are using Windows since you have told us nothing about what OS etc you are using.
05:21:50  <Pinkbeast> ... and I'm afraid that image is a bit teeny-tiny eyestrain-o-vision to really comment on.
05:22:33  <yrol> windows xp sp3, yes with ottd v1.2.0.22553 and v13.5 of hills aptchpack
05:23:01  <yrol> the issue is visible and i tried to explain it in text aswell :o)
05:24:17  <yrol> one can also rightclik and download the image, then its 1900x1080
05:24:39  <yrol> which shouldnt be more helpful, i think
05:25:56  <Pinkbeast> Nope, still tiny. I suspect that's some dire Javascript from the image hosting site that tries to squirrel away the full-size version.
05:26:11  <yrol> im just stumped, i downloaded and repalced files form many threads where it was said this or that needs to be done to fix it, yet nothing got fixed, i checked the installation procedure for the patchpack again aswell
05:26:48  <yrol> ah, i see, i use NoScript,i guess, thats why i can download it
05:27:22  <Pinkbeast> I use NoScript too.
05:27:29  <yrol> ok
05:27:40  <Pinkbeast> What newgrfs are you using?
05:28:08  <yrol> oh, pleae dont say, it has to do with that °gulps°
05:28:54  <Pinkbeast> Well, it doesn't do it to me on the Windows box here, same version of the patchpack...
05:29:06  <yrol> here is the list:
05:29:17  <Pinkbeast> And starting a fresh game with no newgrfs is an easy test you could do.
05:29:57  <yrol> GAH of course, what was i thinking...
05:30:04  <Pinkbeast> ... if it does cure it, it's only 6 more goes to find the offending one by interval bisection. :-)
05:30:23  <yrol> ok, it didnt help, same error with no newgrf's
05:31:09  <yrol> another try:
05:32:41  <Pinkbeast> And if you toggle the fullscreen toggle in Game Options?
05:33:41  <yrol> it -does- kinda look like an alpha-texture related error
05:34:00  <yrol> fullscreen checked at 1980x1050 & 1024 x768..same error
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05:35:09  <Pinkbeast> I guess it's a ropey graphics card, but I'm afraid I can't help you. Sorry.
05:36:28  <yrol> nope. i dont get that error with the current release
05:38:25  <yrol> well, thank you for your help nevertheless :o)
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05:39:05  <yrol> you dont happen to know a modification that makes the text bigger in places like the map ( where the industires are listed ) and similar?
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05:39:57  <yrol> its so tiny, i have to recharge my electron molecular microscope every 2 hours :o(
05:40:17  <yrol> or i have to get so close to the screen ,taht i have snot all over it
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05:52:41  <yrol> Pinkbeast, hellO?
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06:22:32  <Terkhen> good morning
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06:26:28  <yrol> good morning Terkhen
06:43:07  <Lachie> 'lo
06:59:36  <Terkhen> hi Lachie
07:01:17  <Lachie> what's new?
07:02:23  <Terkhen> not much for me :P
07:05:20  <Lachie> fair enough. I'm just making a grf compatible with these new vehicle flipping rules in OTTD
07:06:38  <Terkhen> nice :)
07:10:24  <dihedral> morning Terkhen & planetmaker
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07:15:48  <Terkhen> hi dihedral
07:19:50  <Lachie> winrar. getting a hold of this coding thing again
07:24:15  <Terkhen> winrar code? :P
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07:26:00  <Terkhen> bbl
07:32:32  <planetmaker> moin
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08:44:03  <appe_> mornign.
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08:55:07  <Terkhen> hi appe_
08:56:36  <__ln__> hi appe_ & Terkhen & dihedral & Lachie
08:56:44  <Terkhen> hi to you too :P
08:57:18  <Lachie> hellos
08:58:11  <planetmaker> halos ;-)
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09:00:50  <planetmaker>
09:01:50  <appe_> o/
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10:20:43  <planetmaker> <-- a new transparency setting? :-)
10:21:24  <peter1139> and non-opengfx? :p
10:21:35  <planetmaker> has bad luck
10:21:47  <planetmaker> I can't provide non-grid tiles for that
10:21:49  <planetmaker> I must not
10:22:09  <peter1139> new action 5?
10:22:18  <planetmaker> they'd have that option, if they use the non-grid base tiles newgrf as static newgrf, though
10:22:19  <planetmaker> yes
10:22:30  <planetmaker> but action5 which provides the grid lines
10:22:35  <planetmaker> checkout the dir of that png
10:22:42  <planetmaker> it contains the patch queue
10:24:42  <planetmaker> for unchanged base sets the transparency setting toggles light grid lines and darker grid liens
10:25:18  <planetmaker> you can test the effect if you use a non-grid newgrf, like ogfx+landscape or nogrid land
10:26:45  <planetmaker> I think the composite patch is currently not exactly up to date. I forgot to update it
10:27:20  <b_jonas> if you're adding new buttons to transparency options, add one for hiding the railway fences too, and make the transparent industry button hide the smoke of power stations as well :-)
10:28:03  <planetmaker> That's an entirely different patch
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10:28:37  <planetmaker> two different patches actually
10:28:53  <planetmaker> and... isn't the smoke hidden in trunk?
10:29:05  <b_jonas> planetmaker: I don't know, I haven't checked trunk for that
10:29:51  <planetmaker> then do that :-P
10:31:41  <XeryusTC> b_jonas: railway fences can be hidden by turning full detail off under the wrench menu
10:31:49  <XeryusTC> or the cog in ogfx
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10:37:40  <planetmaker> he's right, though. Transparency settings could use an overhaul. But the last attempt failed on detrimental desires which could not be accomodated consistently ;-)
10:37:51  <planetmaker> thus nothing was changed ;-)
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10:48:26  <b_jonas> XeryusTC: yes, I know full detail works, but that should be on the toolbar
10:49:04  <XeryusTC> true
10:49:24  <b_jonas> the smoke is more difficult, there's currently no way to hide it
10:49:30  <planetmaker> full animation should then go there, too. And town names. And signs. And ...
10:49:43  <planetmaker> b_jonas, as said: did you check trunk. Do that, if you didn't.
10:49:50  <b_jonas> yes, I'll check trunk
10:49:52  <b_jonas> wait
10:50:23  <b_jonas> should I be use opengfx 0.3.5 release with trunk?
10:50:32  <planetmaker> 0.3.7 actually
10:50:41  <b_jonas> ah
10:50:43  <b_jonas> I'll get that
10:50:46  <b_jonas> but stable is okay, right?
10:51:00  <b_jonas> I mean, I don't need an unreleased opengfx
10:51:19  <Yexo> when industries are transparant the smoke from the powerplant is completely hidden
10:51:23  <Yexo> in openttd trunk
10:52:10  <b_jonas> there's yet one would-be-nice feature I'd like for transparency, but that's difficult because it involves drawing stuff
10:52:30  <planetmaker> which?
10:52:42  <b_jonas> a way to show trees in such a way that you can see which squares have trees but without them covering stuff behind
10:53:22  <planetmaker> that'd not involve much drawing
10:54:14  <b_jonas> maybe, but drawing small things like tree trunks can be more difficult than drawing huge buildings
10:54:29  <planetmaker> they basically exist already ;-)
10:54:37  <planetmaker> for the tranparency of the forest
10:54:48  <planetmaker> as its ground tile
10:54:58  <b_jonas> hmm
10:55:46  <planetmaker> anyway, the main thing there is the coding work
10:55:53  <planetmaker> and yes, makes sense
10:56:00  <b_jonas> yeah, something like those trunks could work
10:56:03  <b_jonas> but it's not that easy
10:56:19  <b_jonas> because you need graphics for them on sloped tiles too
10:56:29  <b_jonas> and for rough terrain and snow etc
10:56:36  <b_jonas> you can't use just the forest tiles
10:56:45  <b_jonas> but they might provide inspiration
10:56:50  <planetmaker> they could simply be used as overly as the trees are used
10:57:16  <b_jonas> possible
10:57:55  <b_jonas> let's see, I'll build a trunk
10:57:57  <planetmaker> anyway, just providing sprites with different ground is... dead easy ;-) Just means to export different layers of the graphics file :-P
10:58:03  <b_jonas> Yexo: thanks for checking by the way
10:58:22  <planetmaker> b_jonas, why do you think I told you to check trunk? >:-|
11:03:31  <b_jonas> I'm building trunk now
11:08:39  <b_jonas> indeed, in the trunk, hiding the smokes from the power station works
11:11:13  <b_jonas> great
11:23:51  <b_jonas> is it true that a bribe increases town ratings enough to build a station no matter whether the bribe is successful?
11:24:04  <b_jonas> this appears to claim that:
11:24:25  <planetmaker> not true
11:25:55  <b_jonas> ok
11:28:28  <b_jonas> to increase ratings in a station, can I just use a truck that picks up cargo and drops it in a very close station, then carries it back to the original station?
11:46:50  <Korenn> b_jonas: it might
11:46:58  <Korenn> since I don't think it cares about transferring
11:47:09  <Korenn> you might even be able to drop it off at the same station immediately ;)
11:50:22  <b_jonas> I might even try to transfer it to a different station (without bringing back) and run the trains from that second station
11:50:38  <b_jonas> because cargo waiting on a station also hurts the rating
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12:03:36  <b_jonas> also, could we have price estimates work even while paused, even if you could only do the actual operation when unpaused?
12:06:48  <Yexo> b_jonas: you don't need the second station to increase the ratings on the first one
12:07:34  <b_jonas> Yexo: I need the second station if I also want to use the rating bonus for no or little cargo waiting on the station
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12:08:54  <Yexo> ir make more trains instead to achieve that
12:08:55  <planetmaker> not necessarily. Just have a train load
12:09:29  <planetmaker> or sufficient trains to load (and transport away) the stuff
12:10:10  <planetmaker> i.e. always have one (or more) trains load so that the station remains empty
12:10:42  <planetmaker> still. No tactic will help you, you you have a monthly turn-over of a few 10k cargo units
12:11:04  <planetmaker> As then the average cargo amount will still be too high, even if you manage to transport everything
12:11:31  <b_jonas> planetmaker: but if I transport every cargo to a second station very close, won't that help me?
12:11:57  <planetmaker> if you can transport it anywhere you can also transport it to the real destination
12:12:05  <planetmaker> so: no
12:12:37  <planetmaker> if a short distance travel helps you, more vehicles for the real route also could help you
12:13:07  <planetmaker> still, sometimes this local transport can be helpful. But then you have possibly the same station rating problem at the transfer station...
12:13:10  <b_jonas> why, I can transport to a short distance with much fewer vehicles, right?
12:13:13  <planetmaker> so the problem just moved one station further
12:13:36  <b_jonas> why does the station rating matter at the transfer station?
12:13:46  <planetmaker> cargo there will also decay...
12:13:51  <Yexo> b_jonas: in almost all cases the problem is not the amount of vehicles (you can always build more) but the capacity of the original station
12:13:53  <planetmaker> and it also influences town rating
12:14:03  <Yexo> station rating doesn't influence town rating
12:14:08  <Yexo> nor does amount of cargo waiting
12:14:22  <b_jonas> hmm, cargo decay, true
12:14:24  <planetmaker> it influences the cargo decay
12:14:35  <Yexo> yes
12:14:45  <planetmaker> which directly relates to waiting cargo
12:16:38  <b_jonas> still, even with the cargo decay I think it might sometimes be worth
12:16:55  <b_jonas> I get more cargo from the industry
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12:21:10  <planetmaker> you get the same, if you have a train load constantly....
12:21:21  <planetmaker> with full load orders
12:22:36  <b_jonas> but the train can't constantly be in the station. you need multiple trains for that, possibly many if the destination is far away
12:22:44  <planetmaker> yes. so?
12:22:54  <planetmaker> you need to transport that cargo anyway, don't you?
12:23:14  <planetmaker> thus you need at least two trains, yes. But...?
12:23:48  <b_jonas> no, I don't need to transport all the cargo
12:23:58  <b_jonas> I can transport cargo with just one train
12:24:26  <b_jonas> but still want a high enough rating that when the train arrives to the source station, that station already has a trainful of cargo
12:24:52  <b_jonas> or I might want the station rating high just so an opponent gets less cargo from the same industry
12:24:55  <planetmaker> if that's to be the case you can just as well use two trains
12:25:03  <planetmaker> as it means one full load time = travel time
12:25:19  <planetmaker> and it means you can skip on the overhead of caring for the vehicles and a 2nd station
12:26:12  <b_jonas> two trains might not be enough
12:26:47  <b_jonas> but I guess you convinced me
12:26:59  <b_jonas> this trick is rarely useful probably
12:27:02  <b_jonas> I'll have to test
12:27:25  <planetmaker> it makes sense for very low production industries
12:27:43  <planetmaker> then the frequency of pickup is increased, if you transport by RV
12:28:33  <planetmaker> and shipping that to a somewhat regional hub which gets supplied by several such small suppliers
12:29:16  <planetmaker> but for any "normal" industry you'd quickly have dozens of RV just shuttling cargo. Not helpful, usually
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12:47:22  <b_jonas> it's 1930! I must find all my bridges and replace them.
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12:49:09  <b_jonas> wow, it's possible to replace road bridges under road vehicles?
12:49:18  <b_jonas> nice technology
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13:01:25  <Terkhen> it shouldn't be possible
13:01:29  <Terkhen> what version are you using?
13:02:03  <b_jonas> Terkhen: 1.1.3
13:02:09  <b_jonas> it's possible even under a train
13:02:28  <b_jonas> I just replaced a bridge under a train to wooden, and the train immediately slowed down to 32 km/h
13:02:36  <Elukka> sounds good to me
13:04:37  <planetmaker> Terkhen, iirc it should be possible
13:04:50  <b_jonas> I'll point out to this next time they close a bridge for months for repairs
13:05:07  <b_jonas> I'll ask them to hotswap the bridge under my car instead
13:05:20  <b_jonas> it doesn't even seem to cost extra
13:05:21  <planetmaker> Terkhen, otherwise a competitor could block you from doing so forever
13:05:38  <Yexo> that doesn't hold for rail bridges
13:05:53  <planetmaker> yes, they can (and iirc are) handled differently there
13:05:55  <b_jonas> planetmaker: a competitor can do lots of other evil things with road
13:05:58  <Elukka> why shouldn't it be possible , anyway?
13:06:00  <Terkhen> yes, that makes sense for road vehicles
13:06:03  <Elukka> seems like a useful feature to me
13:06:06  <Terkhen> but not much for rail :P
13:07:13  <Yexo> you can also convert normal rail to electrified rail while there is a train on it
13:07:30  <b_jonas> Yexo: heh, point
13:07:33  <planetmaker> iirc you couldn't do that always. That was quite ugly
13:07:47  <Yexo> indeed, that changed not too long ago
13:08:18  <b_jonas> Yexo: but that doesn't make your train to immediately change speed, so it's easier to imagine it as being delayed to after the train in reality
13:08:43  <b_jonas> the trains actually start to accelerate on the bridge if I replace it to a faster bridge
13:08:52  <planetmaker> as do cars
13:08:59  <planetmaker> they usually just accelerate much faster
13:13:24  <b_jonas> hmm, could a newgrf define a "soldiers" cargo type that you couldn't carry on bridges or aquaducts?
13:14:57  <peter1139> no
13:15:10  <planetmaker> soldiers on train or truck don't hurt bridges either ;-)
13:15:27  <b_jonas> planetmaker: it's not the soldiers that do, it's the war
13:15:44  <b_jonas> the war effectively destroys all the bridges
13:15:55  <peter1139> if the bridge is destroyed then they won't go on it :p
13:16:04  <planetmaker> so your problem rather is: don't build bridges and de-struct all existing ones
13:16:07  <planetmaker> you can do that
13:16:28  <planetmaker> ill-posed question :-P
13:17:44  <b_jonas> right, maybe in a wartime grf, bridges would be banned altogether, no matter the cargo
13:20:58  <planetmaker> ttd is a peaceful game anyway :-)
13:21:57  <b_jonas> yep, except when I start to trap the road vehicles of an AI opponent
13:22:06  <b_jonas> and then destroying them by running over them with a train!
13:22:12  <b_jonas> boom boom boom!
13:22:27  <b_jonas> sure, that breaks my station ratings too
13:22:41  <b_jonas> one-way roads makes this easier than in ttdp
13:22:50  <Terkhen> that's not how wars are usually fought
13:23:49  <Elukka> i think the real issue with wars in ttd would be that it's just not very entertaining to redesign your entire network for a temporary situation
13:23:54  <Elukka> and then redesign it again when it's over
13:24:06  <b_jonas> hmm, could it be worth to transport grain and livestock in separate trains just because UKRS allows faster max speed on one of them?
13:24:23  <b_jonas> Elukka: you'd just simulate continuous war
13:24:37  <b_jonas> you loaded a war grf, played the whole game under war
13:24:53  <Elukka> that sure would be a long war
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13:25:07  <b_jonas> come on, time is not to scale in ottd anyway
13:26:01  <Elukka> well i do think different kinds of scenarios with grfs to complement them could be interesting
13:28:03  <Elukka> war seems, gameplay wise, anathema to a game that relies on stable economic conditions and business going as usual
13:28:30  <Pinkbeast> I think it's worth transporting grain and livestock in separate trains _anyway_ because of the ease of running them fully loaded, provided that a small enough locomotive is available to make that economical.
13:29:14  <b_jonas> running them in the same train increases cargo rating because they'er in the source station more frequently
13:29:17  <planetmaker> wild west economy: transport hunters and settlers one-way. And buffalo meat and bear hide the other ;-)
13:29:24  <b_jonas> planetmaker: heh
13:30:00  <Pinkbeast> Yeah, but if I run joint farm trains I'm always finding I want to adjust the consists for a bunch of trains which OTTD makes into a royal PITA.
13:30:19  <Elukka> see, something like a wild west scenario could be interesting
13:30:20  <planetmaker> btw... does anyone feel like drawing fields?
13:30:35  <planetmaker> Like rice fields? Or... whatever grows in tropical climate?
13:30:55  <planetmaker> including all the usual growth stages the fields currently have?
13:30:56  <Elukka> pinkbeast: you can always 'full load all cargo'
13:31:04  <b_jonas> planetmaker: also, the buffalos exist as road vehicles that you must use to migrate hoards of buffalo cargo between their winter and summer places, which produces you buffalo meat cargo
13:31:41  <Pinkbeast> Elukka> No help - now the cargo I have too much of is piling up.
13:31:51  <Elukka> well, true
13:32:18  <planetmaker> probably it should remain something recognizable as 'grain', though. Given the cargo from farms
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13:32:32  <Pinkbeast> Fundamentally if the relative ratios of production change, I want to change my rolling stock to match, and this is a pain, and OTTD does not well represent the sort of situation where an industry with low production is served by a mixed traffic locomotive which has multiple duties.
13:33:25  <b_jonas> Pinkbeast: I think a farm always changes the production of grain and livestock together
13:33:27  <planetmaker> how could it be made better / easier?
13:33:32  <b_jonas> you can't have a farm producing much more of one than the other
13:33:40  <Pinkbeast> jonas> Then you are wrong.
13:33:47  <b_jonas> maybe it depends on the settings
13:33:56  <Elukka> planetmaker: what do you need the fields for?
13:34:08  <b_jonas> I'm not using the "smooth economy"
13:34:26  <b_jonas> planetmaker: the Japanese landscape grf has some fields, but they're not perfect
13:34:27  <planetmaker> Elukka, we could get different fields for different climates. In either OpenGFX+ Landscape. Or maybe also directly in OpenGFX
13:34:28  <Pinkbeast> planetmaker> What I've been thinking of is a facility to nominate a "master train" in a group (and I know that improving grouping facilities is on the list).
13:34:42  <planetmaker> b_jonas, they don't fit this purpose. Yes, I know them
13:34:44  <b_jonas> in particular, it would be nice to have Indonesian style terraced rice fields
13:34:54  <Pinkbeast> Then have a way to say for a group "make all trains like the master train".
13:35:13  <Pinkbeast> This would trump all autoreplace orders, which would then be effective only on the master train.
13:35:23  <Elukka> the tropical climate in ttd doesn't really strike me as a climate where rice would be grown
13:35:36  <Elukka> and i still think the grass is way too blue in opengfx :P
13:35:41  <Pinkbeast> So then I take the master train to the depot manually, remove a grain hopper, add a livestock van, and bingo.
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13:35:51  <b_jonas> Elukka: I'm rather thinking of temparate
13:35:54  <b_jonas> with a grf
13:36:15  <Elukka> i suppose that would be quite possible
13:36:16  <Pinkbeast> This also handles extending trains in response to more powerful locomotives very neatly
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13:55:16  <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: something's odd with the 4 axle wagon sprites in the newest release (tried it on the newest nightly)
13:55:49  <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: yes, random liveries are broken
13:56:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: it's a problem with nml
13:57:15  <Eddi|zuHause>
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14:11:25  <Elukka> alright
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14:19:44  <__ln__> is there openttd for MeeGo?
14:20:02  <Eddi|zuHause> did you try to compile one?
14:20:33  <__ln__> nope, i haven't gotten as far as installing the development tools.
14:20:52  <Eddi|zuHause> if you find an SDL port, there's quite some probability that it will Just Work(tm).
14:21:24  <Eddi|zuHause> (with maybe some usability problems wrt input devices)
14:21:44  <__ln__> i was just about to ask how does it handle showing and not showing the on-screen keyboard
14:22:09  <Eddi|zuHause> OSD shows when you click into an input box
14:22:40  <Eddi|zuHause> +keyboard
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14:37:45  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, I just wonder, did you get a private IRC message from me? (about half an hour ago)
14:38:10  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
14:38:26  <Eddi|zuHause> did you expect an answer?
14:38:43  <planetmaker> It made me wonder whether you received it at all
14:39:15  <planetmaker> so, I guess. Yes, I did ;-)
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15:45:27  <DanMacK> Is the rotation ability for airports in the latest trunk nightly?
15:48:00  <andythenorth> open source warcraft 1 anyone?
15:48:12  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but only when you have an appropriate grf
15:48:17  <Terkhen> it should, check OpenGFX+ Airports
15:48:28  <Xaroth> andythenorth: why would anybody do that, if there's dune?
15:48:33  <andythenorth> meh
15:48:53  <DanMacK> I have the grf, but for some reason, rotation's not an option
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15:49:11  <planetmaker> it needs to be explicitly supported by the airports NewGRF
15:49:26  <planetmaker> where there only is one: OpenGFX+ Airports. At least to my knowledge
15:49:33  <planetmaker> and welcome, DanMacK  :-)
15:50:12  <DanMacK> thanks
15:50:14  <planetmaker> and rotation is selected via the small arrows in the "view". It's not directly largely announced
15:50:34  <DanMacK> that's what I thought, but tthey're greyed out...
15:51:19  <DanMacK> would help if the grf was active in the scenario :/
15:51:42  <planetmaker> being active is quite a pre-condition, yes ;-)
15:52:06  <planetmaker> you'll not have luck with stable OpenTTD. You'll need to have to grab a nightly OpenTTD
15:52:14  <planetmaker> It uses some new NewGRF features which are not in stable
15:52:16  <planetmaker> yet
15:53:12  * DanMacK always uses the nightlies
15:53:19  <planetmaker> good :-)
15:59:40  <DanMacK> So...  I'm an idiot :P
16:00:13  <DanMacK> Also, any seaplane airports yet??
16:04:49  <TrueBrain> DanMacK: be careful with those statements, it can be used against you :D:D
16:07:25  <Eddi|zuHause> DanMacK: it should be possible to recode the small airport as seaplane port, but you won't get to differentiate between aircraft types, so all planes could land there
16:08:42  <DanMacK> so short answer...  no
16:09:13  <planetmaker> depends.
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16:09:24  <DanMacK> Av8 2.0 will have a few, that's why I'm asking
16:09:26  <planetmaker> You can. You just have to trust the player to send only the right planes there
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16:09:47  <Terkhen> "trust the player" <--- heh
16:09:48  <DanMacK> how soon before we can see actual seaplane ports?
16:09:50  <planetmaker> Yes it will. And if you give me (or zero.eight or y3xo) the sprites, we'll happily include a seaport version
16:10:11  <planetmaker> which still would have this limitation that it's "just another small airport"
16:10:12  <Yexo> I"m not sure that's actually possible planetmaker
16:10:23  <Yexo> unless all tiles would be at sea level
16:10:39  <planetmaker> Yexo: would be fine enough, I guess
16:11:03  <planetmaker> Though building it on the shore would be nicer, I didn't test the exact options so far, though
16:13:21  <planetmaker> Yexo: but even if it's only a "normal small airport on sea tiles" it IMHO would be a good thing to spark some interest
16:13:41  <Yexo> spark interest in what exactly?
16:13:44  <planetmaker> (if with adequate graphics supplied which match a sea port)
16:13:56  <planetmaker> in more diverse airports :-)
16:14:03  <Yexo> I think there is enough interest in that already
16:14:05  <planetmaker> and it'd be a case to demonstrate of what's also feasible
16:14:10  <planetmaker> already
16:14:16  <Yexo> the problem now being newgrf airports still not done
16:14:17  <planetmaker> :-)
16:14:38  <planetmaker> yes... and we're no wizards nor do our days have 48 hours. I know :S
16:15:05  <planetmaker> as usual there's many more interesting projects than time :-)
16:17:47  <DanMacK> exactly
16:18:04  <TrueBrain> we should move the orbit of the earth to get 48h days :D
16:18:09  <TrueBrain> not that it would help .... but the idea is nice :P
16:18:15  <TrueBrain> so cold, so cold
16:19:15  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: what does the orbit have to do with the day length?
16:19:22  <planetmaker> shame, shame ;-)
16:19:34  <planetmaker> (think of 25.5 hours of Mars) ;-)
16:19:39  <planetmaker> *24.5
16:20:04  <b_jonas> reminds me to Jules Verne's novel Hector Servadac
16:20:20  <b_jonas> where they get 12 hour long days first, then 6 hour long days
16:20:31  <b_jonas> also a double long year
16:23:03  <Belugas> muwhahaha!!!  I'm glad we have an astronomist with us :D
16:23:24  <Belugas> astrophysicist?
16:23:42  <planetmaker> astronomer or astrophysicst. Whatever you want ;-)
16:24:00  <planetmaker> "My" institute calls it "extraterrestrial physics"
16:25:13  <Terkhen> so other planets have different physics? :P
16:25:53  <planetmaker> "extraterrestrial" only means the "physics of things not on Earth"
16:25:57  <b_jonas> Terkhen: no, it's a ploy to get more funding
16:26:33  <Terkhen> a ploy makes sense :)
16:26:35  <planetmaker> b_jonas: no. astrophysics actually is wrong. Our field of research is not stars
16:26:44  <planetmaker> which _astro_ would imply
16:27:49  <planetmaker> thus the naming is simply correcter than the more common "astrophysics" or "astronomy".
16:28:01  <planetmaker> As most such institutes bear "astro"* correclty also in their name
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16:28:28  <planetmaker> and "planetology" wouldn't cover it either ;-)
16:28:34  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: :D:D:D I am well aware, just liked the comment :P
16:28:54  <planetmaker> I know you (should) know ;-)
16:29:13  <b_jonas> so are you one of those people that search for exoplanets?
16:29:38  <TrueBrain> we have telescopes doing that :P
16:29:42  <planetmaker> b_jonas: no
16:29:47  <Belugas> he knows you know
16:29:51  <planetmaker> I build planets. In my labs ;-)
16:29:57  <Eddi|zuHause> "planetology" sounds wrong...
16:30:01  <planetmaker> my nick speaks truth ;-)
16:30:09  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: it's correct, though
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16:30:25  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: how big of a planets? :D
16:30:31  <planetmaker>
16:30:48  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: I, personally? 100µm :-P
16:30:52  <planetmaker> ok. 500µm
16:31:04  <planetmaker> But we reached already 10cm ;-)
16:32:08  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: planet + logos = planet science
16:32:08  <b_jonas> planetmaker: ah, you work for Magrathea
16:32:14  <TrueBrain> normal people call them balls btw :)
16:32:19  <planetmaker> b_jonas: ehm... no?
16:32:27  * planetmaker wonders what magrathea now is
16:32:28  <Eddi|zuHause> given current progress, how long until you have several thousand km?
16:32:37  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: 5000 years
16:32:41  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: you don't know Magrathea?!
16:33:07  <TrueBrain> that woudl seriously shock me tbh
16:33:16  * KenjiE20 writes his name in a glacier
16:33:17  <TrueBrain> remind me when we have a BBQ next time I should bring you a book :P
16:33:19  <Prof_Frink> I thought planetmaker *was* Slartibartfast.
16:33:20  <Terkhen> finding an unknown planet and claiming that you created it would be faster
16:33:21  <planetmaker> hm... I should :-)
16:34:13  <planetmaker> I totally forgot about that. Gotcha ;-)
16:34:21  <TrueBrain> bad planetmaker, bad bad bad planetmaker :P
16:35:27  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that's a serious faux pas :p
16:36:17  <planetmaker> quite :-)
16:36:48  <TrueBrain> btw, planetmaker, what do you think about the fact we can now travel faster than light?
16:36:50  <TrueBrain> *troll*
16:37:03  <planetmaker> hahahaha :-)
16:37:23  <TrueBrain> or about the 730km long tunnel we hav ethrough our earth?!
16:38:00  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: they didn't prove moving faster than light, or at least they haven't disproving there being a wormhole ;)
16:38:04  <Eddi|zuHause> hey, when the italian ministery of education says they built it, who are we to question them!
16:38:34  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe previous measurements of speed of light were just wrong :)
16:38:40  <TrueBrain> :D:D
16:38:57  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: speed of light is... a definition meanwhile ;-)
16:38:59  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: lets just keep it on a relativistic correction error, shall we? Easier :)
16:39:06  <Terkhen> maybe lightspeed has been slacking until now
16:39:48  <planetmaker> Rubidium: but it has been proven that a wormhole immediately collapses upon contact with matter ;-)
16:40:01  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: well, they were wrong about dark matter too, so ...
16:40:04  <planetmaker> (yes, they can exist in perfect vaccum)
16:40:24  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: but what about the neutrino measurements from 1987a?
16:40:31  <TrueBrain> dirty lens :P
16:40:33  <planetmaker> They arrived concurrently with the light. Not two years earlier
16:40:37  <TrueBrain> and the Italian .. they just cant read clock
16:40:50  <planetmaker> well... but the callender?
16:41:02  <TrueBrain> they are Italian, can you be sure about anything?! :)
16:41:07  <planetmaker> :-P
16:41:17  <TrueBrain> I mean, they did build a tunnel of 700+km! :P
16:41:18  <planetmaker> Probably Berlusconi intervened :-P
16:41:21  <TrueBrain> sorry, I am trolling :)
16:43:14  <TrueBrain> the whole bla about FTL just makes me giggle
16:43:24  <TrueBrain> many of my friends come to me: they have proven FTL exists!!
16:43:28  <TrueBrain> like ... dude ... seriously ...
16:44:02  <TrueBrain> next you are going to tell me we have a black president
16:45:54  <peter1138> For The Lose
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16:47:46  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: my lecturers on general relativity were meinel and neugebauer:
16:47:59  <planetmaker> I trust them if they say that wormholes can exists - if there's no matter around
16:48:32  <TrueBrain> a paper from 1995? Really? :D
16:48:55  <planetmaker> I just googled for their names and field equations ;-)
16:49:00  <TrueBrain> but yeah, I trust you on that claim, without question :)
16:49:11  <valhallasw> ooooh physics
16:49:13  <planetmaker> if they found one solution to them, they should know roughly what they do ;-)
16:49:28  <TrueBrain> I was just refering to the recent discovery Dark Matter does not do what they thought it would :)
16:49:36  <planetmaker> :-)
16:49:55  <TrueBrain> one of the reason I love this field
16:49:57  <planetmaker> quantum gravity is bound to give us surprises for sure anyway...
16:50:00  <TrueBrain> what is true this year, can be old next year
16:50:10  <TrueBrain> and hello mister valhallasw
16:50:44  <valhallasw> bonjour monsieur TrueBrain
16:50:50  <TrueBrain> it has been a while
16:50:58  <TrueBrain> you already earned your titles by now, or still battling for them? :)
16:51:09  <valhallasw> nah, I'm in Paris for my last internship
16:51:17  <TrueBrain> nice pick :)
16:51:21  <TrueBrain> What field?
16:51:24  <valhallasw> and it's raining here -_-'
16:51:29  <valhallasw> granular matter
16:51:29  <TrueBrain> hahaha :D
16:51:47  <valhallasw> specifically: droplet detachment of suspensions
16:51:48  <TrueBrain> how did you manage to get out of the country without upsetting .... most of hte professors? :D
16:51:54  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: the funny thing is that it's just a bunch of wild theories, nobody has a clue how to actually prove or disprove them
16:52:23  <valhallasw> I'm not sure why it would upset people...?
16:52:26  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: Dark Matter, the current theory, has been disproven this week. Followup surveys are needed of course, but they observed something different than the theory predicted
16:53:10  <TrueBrain> valhallasw: they strongly suggested we shouldnt go outside the Netherlands in my time :P
16:53:33  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: over the course of histories, disproval of theories is known to have pushed science a good way forward
16:53:51  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: it always does. Proving is impossible (most of the time), disproving moves you forward
16:54:20  <TrueBrain> valhallasw: but so you are almost done; nice :D Concratz on that ;)
16:54:40  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: the theories may be less wild than one might assume ;-)
16:54:49  <valhallasw> TrueBrain: hm, no idea. I just asked my the prof from my first research (Van Hecke) if he had some ideas on labs
16:54:59  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: Dark Matter and co are wild for most people on the world I guess ;)
16:55:06  <planetmaker> and the difference between theory and hypothesis is exactly "can be tested" and "can't be tested"
16:55:10  <valhallasw> and I mostly did not care too much about study advisors and other annoying bureaucrats
16:55:11  <Eddi|zuHause> what actually happened to the guys that proclaimed they might have found a new natural force?
16:55:30  <TrueBrain> valhallasw: you will do fine in this branch of science :D :P
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16:56:10  <TrueBrain> and LordAro joins in force
16:56:12  <TrueBrain> hihi
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16:56:17  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: there you have your new natural force :D
16:56:23  <LordAro> hi Truebrain
16:56:42  <LordAro> sorry - pressed on the icon twice, apparently
16:56:49  <TrueBrain> topic of today: science, (astro)physics to be exact ;)
16:57:06  <TrueBrain> planetmaker just told us he is going to send us all our own planet
16:57:37  <planetmaker> yeah. Instant planets. You'll have to feed it to grow to proper size :-D
16:57:45  <TrueBrain> :D:D:D:D
16:57:48  <TrueBrain> would be scary :P
16:57:51  <planetmaker> :-)
16:57:57  <valhallasw> Just add water.
16:57:57  <TrueBrain> what do you feed them after, say, 1km ?
16:58:14  <planetmaker> siblings ;-)
16:58:21  <planetmaker> or get your own asteroids and comets
16:58:21  <TrueBrain> where do you hide it from your mom
16:58:39  <planetmaker> ah. It's inflatable. Under your bed will do.
16:58:39  <b_jonas> smaller planets
16:58:45  <TrueBrain> well, one day we had a near-miss with a comet, the other day it was not even close ..
16:58:51  <TrueBrain> how do I know when to put my planet out there?!
16:58:52  <b_jonas> I mean, you feed it smaller planets
16:59:18  <KenjiE20> pfft, feed, just roll them like katamari's :p
16:59:30  <TrueBrain> now you just make me hungry
16:59:47  <valhallasw> TrueBrain: it will just be returned to sender when it's impossible to reach the intended destination.
17:00:14  <TrueBrain> :D
17:00:31  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: these passages are usually announced. Just listen to your favourite news station
17:00:48  <TrueBrain> NASA doesn't track all near-orbit objects
17:00:49  <planetmaker> And buy an Ariane V heavy to get it there ;-)
17:00:49  <TrueBrain> they try to
17:00:51  <TrueBrain> but they don't :P
17:01:26  <TrueBrain> hihi, don't put a monkey in it, it might not come back :D
17:01:41  <planetmaker> well... it's hard. Ephemerides calculations in N-body simulations with many more unknowns... challenging ;-)
17:01:45  <TrueBrain> poor monkey .. then you live in Iran, which is sad enough, and then you are send in space to die? It is so sad ...
17:02:03  <TrueBrain> challenging doesn't describe it :)
17:02:15  <TrueBrain> I mean, we can't even tell if Eris or Pluto is bigger ...
17:02:53  <planetmaker> Pluto... this inflated-ego dwarf planet
17:02:57  <planetmaker> who gives a shit? ;-)
17:03:09  <TrueBrain> well, it scares me, that we can't even tell how big something is this 'close' to us
17:03:35  <planetmaker>
17:03:48  <TrueBrain> hahahaha :D
17:04:05  <TrueBrain> owh, that is a really good one :D
17:04:22  <planetmaker> yeah... we had it as background of our conference laptop a few years back.
17:04:33  <planetmaker> I don't know anymore how many people asked me for that image ;-)
17:05:44  <TrueBrain> hmm ..
17:05:50  * TrueBrain ponders adding Cloud9 to OpenTTD dev-space
17:09:29  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i immediately loved that picture back then
17:10:17  <Eddi|zuHause> such details like the inclination of uranus :)
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17:11:16  <planetmaker> yes it has a lot of detail which is not easily visible ;-)
17:18:59  <Eddi|zuHause> have they found a replacement yet for "Mein Vater ErklÀrt Mir Jeden Sonntag Unsere Neun Planeten"?
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17:45:13  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23037 /trunk/src/lang/italian.txt:
17:45:13  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:13  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: italian - 3 changes by Snail_
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17:54:32  <Wolf01> hello
17:54:51  <Alberth> hi
17:57:43  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r23038 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix: Check that the selected font size is valid the font face in use and choose the nearest size to that selected if not. Font metrics should then just work.
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18:36:59  <LordAro> evening
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19:18:52  <andythenorth> one day, I'll go too far in the BROS thread :P
19:19:05  <Pinkbeast> But not today?
19:19:57  <andythenorth> that remains to be seen
19:20:56  <Pinkbeast> I was gently pleased with myself for keeping my mouth shut when the P1 SIM guy turned out to be writing a book about how to do an utterly impossible project.
19:23:58  <Rubidium> I must have missed that post/thread :(
19:24:25  <andythenorth> Rubidium: you could enjoin the BROS thread :P
19:25:56  <Rubidium> oh, I didn't miss it
19:26:01  <Rubidium> it's just long-ish ago
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19:26:29  <Rubidium> using word for a book... he really is going to do it completely and utterly alone, is he?
19:26:58  <Rubidium> and I guess he needed a few hours more forced LaTeX usage before he understood what we were about
19:28:19  <Rubidium> but then I've made ~30 people very happy LaTeX users by forcing it through their throat for a project (together with VCS). When we were at about 25% of the project they already were happy I pushed it.
19:28:32  <Rubidium> though I guess smallfly is like andythenorth's junior devs
19:28:51  <andythenorth> they are no longer my junior devs
19:28:59  <planetmaker> :-D
19:29:08  <andythenorth> mostly they are now someone else's well trained non-junior dev, or someone else's problem :D
19:29:13  <planetmaker> no longer your devs? or no longer junior? ;-)
19:29:31  <andythenorth> ^^
19:30:21  <peter1138> hmm, crap
19:30:35  <peter1138> so apparently i've got a font that has one valid size, 13
19:30:39  <peter1138> so we chose 13
19:30:44  <peter1138> and it says it's an invalid size
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19:33:03  <andythenorth> 13 is unlucky
19:33:23  <andythenorth> I provide employment contracts that forbid the use of v13, etc
19:33:35  <andythenorth> you have to use 12a, or skip 13
19:33:51  <andythenorth> in version control, you should make an empty commit for r13
19:34:07  <andythenorth> this fear of 13 is not entirely grounded
19:34:09  <Rubidium> I'd call it 1π ;)
19:34:13  <andythenorth> as my birthday is the 13th :P
19:35:46  <Terkhen> andythenorth: you should stop trying to change them
19:36:02  <Terkhen> what project will you use as an example to explain why VCS is useful then?
19:36:05  <Rubidium> andythenorth: do you also forbid all version numbers that start with a 5 followed by a lucky number? As well as version 4?
19:37:00  <andythenorth> Rubidium: no, but if you explain it to me, I might (please don't explain)
19:37:13  * andythenorth also has a serious magpie problem
19:37:47  <Terkhen> what's that?
19:39:04  <andythenorth> the magpie rhyme?
19:39:14  <andythenorth>
19:39:15  <Rubidium> a magpie is a lovely bird, isn't it? ;)
19:39:52  * peter1138 still grumbles at FreeType
19:40:18  <andythenorth>
19:40:22  <supermop_> still cant get any margaret calvert fonts to work?
19:40:50  <Rubidium> in any case... I won't say that 4 sounds like death (in quite a lot of Asian languages) and I won't say that 5 sounds like not (in Cantonese)
19:41:35  <peter1138> no, dealing with bitmap fonts now
19:41:40  <peter1138> Could not choose font size 16, nor best match 7x13. FreeType reported error 0x17
19:41:48  <peter1138> 0x17 means invalid font size
19:42:03  <peter1138> 7x13 is a font size that freetype earlier said was valid...
19:44:58  <andythenorth> good night
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19:51:15  <LordAro> this libtimidity thing is weird - on self-compiled version, while loading grfs, music is fine, after that, it goes weird again
19:53:34  <LordAro> and now, it's weird (but not as weird as normal) while loading grfs :)
19:53:40  <Terkhen> weird how?
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19:53:59  <LordAro> don't really know how to describe it
19:54:08  <LordAro> sort of 'scratchy'
19:54:31  <LordAro> the problem is to do with timidity/libtimidity on ubuntu 11.10, so don't worry too much :)
19:55:38  <Rubidium> ah... Ubuntu, there where OpenTTD's upstream is an AI...
19:56:06  <peter1138> eh?
19:56:16  <Terkhen> :P
19:57:11  <Rubidium>
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20:04:48  <planetmaker> :-D
20:05:11  <LordAro> wait, what?
20:05:17  <peter1138> erm
20:05:17  <peter1138> ok
20:05:19  <peter1138> how odd
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20:26:09  <DDR_> 012540ddr
20:26:25  <DDR_> Stupid text input boxes. -_-
20:27:21  <SmatZ> time to change your password
20:28:11  <Eddi|zuHause> interesting password indeed :)
20:28:16  <SmatZ> :)
20:28:28  <__ln__> is this the first time ever DDR says something?
20:29:03  <SmatZ> :)
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20:30:07  <Eddi|zuHause> almost :p
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20:35:49  <peter1138> DDR_ is 71?
20:44:44  <DDR_> ?
20:45:01  <DDR_> Luckily, not my password for much.
20:46:07  <DDR_> Nah, thought I was typing into the popup password box, for some reason cursor was still in IRC. :/
20:48:04  <Belugas> ho yeah baby, remove it... come on... here's 5$ for you
20:48:10  <Belugas> oops.. sorry...
20:49:28  <SmatZ> :D
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20:54:08  <planetmaker> good night
20:54:24  <supermop_> later
20:55:09  <Terkhen> good night
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21:20:50  <z-MaTRiX> hey-ho
21:20:50  <z-MaTRiX> :)
21:21:01  <z-MaTRiX> SmatZ<< \o/
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21:53:15  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:15:03  <Madey> hey everyone
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22:19:08  <TrueBrain> hello mister I say hello and leave
22:19:14  <TrueBrain> *sad panda*
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22:23:07  <Lachie> derp
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22:27:09  <TrueBrain> derp derp
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22:33:36  <z-MaTRiX> sálálá
22:36:18  <peter1138> no
22:36:41  <z-MaTRiX> downloading superman
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