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00:03:02 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 00:05:50 * Belugas cannot tell, not watching weeds 00:06:08 * Belugas watches Walking deads and Vampire Diaries 00:06:14 <Mazur> Eddi|zuHause, by some guys locked inside a room with a sackful of hash and a fridge and closet full of food for when they get hte munchies. 00:06:17 <Belugas> and Merlin, and Fringes 00:06:32 * Mazur never followed Weeds. 00:06:47 <Mazur> Saw a few episodes, decided it was not worth the time. 00:07:49 <supermop_> i think eddi was askig how to spell 'eighth' 00:07:50 <Eddi|zuHause> weeds was on its height around the 3rd and 4th season, kinda degraded afterwards 00:07:54 <Mazur> NCIS, NCIS LA, Journeyman, HIGNFY, QI, The Big Bang Theory. 00:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and i watch way too many series 00:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause> lately i haven't been able to catch up over the week 00:08:38 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:08:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and yes, i was asking about the spelling of "9th" 00:09:03 <Eddi|zuHause> "8th" 00:09:54 <Mazur> Ninth. 00:10:05 <Mazur> No "e". 00:10:13 <Mazur> Eighth. 00:10:23 <Mazur> Eght plus an 'h'. 00:10:40 <Mazur> Or Eight plus an 'h', alternatively. 00:11:15 <supermop_> off for dinner, later 00:11:15 <Mazur> Depengin on whether you want to make a typo with the i or not. 00:11:18 <Mazur> ENjoy/ 00:24:04 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23226 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix (r23219): If you find a file, also use it. 00:24:52 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23227 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix (r23219): The FileScanner should also consider the old directories. 00:33:22 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-098-215.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 00:34:28 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f6c8e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:24 *** Snail__ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail__] 00:53:51 *** Elu [Elukka@78-27-85-57.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 00:59:27 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-85-57.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but "eight" + "h" doesn't make any sense 00:59:48 <Eddi|zuHause> "th" is one letter, so it must be "eight" "remove t" "add th" 00:59:56 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's not how you speak it 01:00:35 <Eddi|zuHause> (or i also speak it wrong) 01:01:21 <supermop_> english doesn't really have rules that make sense 01:02:04 <Eddi|zuHause> obviously. because it would be german then... 01:02:34 <supermop_> english is the post modern german 01:05:10 <supermop_> does anyone here do much photo or video work? 01:05:39 *** Elu is now known as Elukka 01:09:13 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 01:25:20 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-140-149.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 01:30:57 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-207-187.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:53:53 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:441:3933:368:c42e] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:55:20 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-85-57.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 02:14:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.183.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:17:33 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 02:55:16 <DabuYu> supermop_: i do some, what's the question 03:05:32 <supermop_> looking for a decent LCD 03:05:41 <supermop_> no room for a crt in my apartment 03:06:06 <DabuYu> ah - i must admit i don't have a specific LCD for that purpose 03:06:33 <DabuYu> but if you get one, for good photo and video display color calibration is recommended 03:07:33 <DabuYu> like this: http://www.datacolor.eu/en/products/monitor-calibration/spyder3elite/index.html 03:08:01 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:08:28 <DabuYu> i've always worked with personal adjustments based on B/W and color charts 03:08:47 <DabuYu> but such product will definitely get better results 03:09:22 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 03:09:35 <DabuYu> and, based on personal preference, an screen with a coating will make the color better, but it reflects terribly. 03:10:15 <DabuYu> *preference = experience - my preference now therefore is one without a coating :) 03:10:24 <supermop_> i'd rather have it look true than good 03:10:39 <supermop_> if it saves be an extra round of printing proofs 03:10:55 <DabuYu> with calibration you get closest to truth 03:11:07 <DabuYu> but you always have lcd -> printer conversion 03:11:42 <DabuYu> lcd = (s)RGB color space, printer uses something different (depends on printer, often cmyk) 03:12:36 <DabuYu> and that conversion often happens within the printer itself - even if the lcd displays correct, the printer might still change it to the worse 03:19:19 <supermop_> yeah 04:09:37 *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@index.linuxsecured.net] has joined #openttd 04:09:48 <z-MaTRiX> hey-ho 04:26:14 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:37:12 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 05:54:45 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7543B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:55:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7327E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:07:19 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the what problem? It actually might have fixed that though 06:28:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:33:51 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:01:21 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 07:03:01 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:07:18 <appe> morning, gentlemen. 07:15:22 <andythenorth> moin 07:37:04 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 07:37:29 *** Celestar [~dax@89.204.137.96] has joined #openttd 07:40:33 <Celestar> \o 07:45:44 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 07:50:08 * andythenorth wonders if it's worth fixing the tram offsets in ottd 07:51:11 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 08:12:04 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B4C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:12:20 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-34-60.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:12:57 <Celestar> if there's a bug, it's worth fixing 08:14:04 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc12-linl7-2-0-cust144.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:22:50 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has joined #openttd 08:24:11 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-006-041.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:25:00 <andythenorth> trams travelling along / axis are some pixels too high in one direction and some pixels to low in the other 08:25:12 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> oxygen.oftc.net quits: devilsadvocate_ 08:25:12 <andythenorth> it's not a newgrf offset thing... 08:25:24 <andythenorth> could be the track graphics that are wrong rather than the vehicle path 08:27:51 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:49:31 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:56:34 <Celestar> do we have some auto_ptr like class? 08:59:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:04:35 <peter1138> probably, auto_ptr is deprecated isn't it? 09:06:01 <Celestar> in C++11 yeah 09:06:32 <Celestar> it'S unique_ptr now 09:10:26 <Celestar> there is a new "auto" 'datatype' 09:12:58 <TinoDidriksen> auto_ptr should be avoided. shared_ptr or unique_ptr are vastly better. Just use Boost? 09:19:04 *** devilsadvocate_ [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has joined #openttd 09:19:04 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:27 * Celestar tries to remember what the drawbacks of auto_ptr were 09:38:10 <peter1138> iirc we used it for something and it caused problems 09:38:15 <peter1138> but i can't where or what 09:38:18 <peter1138> *remember 09:43:56 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:51:18 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-238-229.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:58:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:16:38 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-241-76-120.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 10:20:31 <peter1138> oh my god marten how could you 10:20:59 <Celestar> ? 10:22:56 <MNIM> Questionable Content. 10:23:17 <MNIM> Yes, martin, how could you? 10:23:27 <MNIM> he forgot to throw pintsize out. 10:23:40 <MNIM> great. Now we'll have videos ALL over the net. 10:23:47 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@f72217.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:28:53 <planetmaker> hehe 10:28:57 <planetmaker> bloody Pintsize 10:29:30 <planetmaker> I wonder though what Marigold's antropopc will then do with him ;-) 10:29:53 <appe> what's pintzine? 10:29:55 <appe> size* 10:30:07 <planetmaker> appe, you need to read "Questionable Content" 10:30:10 <planetmaker> It's a robot 10:30:11 <MNIM> hmmmh, planetmaker, should we link that here? 10:31:20 <planetmaker> http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1 10:31:31 <planetmaker> ^^ appe 10:31:59 <planetmaker> the newer comics are much nicer drawn, though 10:35:20 <appe> haha 10:35:23 <appe> neat 10:36:31 <planetmaker> MNIM, it might sometimes be "questionable content" by some hypocritical moral standards. But not by mine ;-) 10:36:46 <MNIM> True. :P 10:36:54 <MNIM> but that wasn't my only concern 10:37:33 <MNIM> I mean, that comic is pretty long, what're we at right now? more than 2000 comics. We don't want to distract our devs that long. 10:37:47 <Celestar> http://9gag.com/gag/586487 10:37:49 <planetmaker> can't distract me. I read them all :-P 10:37:57 <Celestar> outsourced marketing to Bulgaria, haven'T they? 10:38:00 <MNIM> me too. :P 10:38:39 <planetmaker> hehe, Celestar 10:38:40 <appe> 9gag <3. 10:38:44 <planetmaker> enjoy :-P 10:39:06 <planetmaker> (that add is more questionable than that comic :-P ) 10:39:51 <MNIM> hahaha 10:40:50 <MNIM> I don't envy the person who needs to have work done and gets distracted by finding it for the first time, though 10:41:16 <Celestar> planetmaker: that's just sad ... 10:48:17 <Celestar> ..... 10:48:31 <Celestar> those end-to-end testers are driving me nuts. 10:48:38 <Noldo> who? 10:48:48 <Celestar> I don't need uber-nerds as testers. But they should have a rudimentary set of skills. 10:49:05 <Celestar> for example: Literacy would be of great help. 10:49:23 <Noldo> but reading instructions is practically cheating 10:49:38 <Noldo> you get unfair advantage compared to people who don't 10:49:42 <Celestar> I'm not talking about instructions. 10:49:54 <Celestar> I'm talking about reading the big: "ERROR: <message>" 10:50:05 <Noldo> works for that too 10:50:12 <Celestar> "I cannot see the reason for the error" 10:50:17 <Celestar> it's THERE. 10:50:23 <Celestar> IN BIG LETTERS. ON YOUR SCREEN. 10:51:12 <Celestar> reminds me of "kein Ostdeutsch" for the Germans among us :D 10:52:29 <planetmaker> Celestar, I answered the other day a complaint about FIRS. "It issues error E00" 10:52:35 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 10:53:05 <planetmaker> Well. If he had continued to read, The next words in that error message are "You need OpenTTD 1.2.0 / trunk r22xyz or newer" 10:53:06 <planetmaker> oh well 10:53:12 <planetmaker> He was using 1.1.3 10:53:36 <planetmaker> that's how people are. Read until the first "dang!" and then act like hypnotized rabbits 10:54:54 <planetmaker> It also made me wonder: why do we put any text in the error message? 10:55:02 <andythenorth> planetmaker: 10:55:02 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias#Examples 10:55:14 <andythenorth> "At the same time, there is evidence to suggest that people do not necessarily exhibit self-serving bias with respect to computer technologies. When they fail to achieve a desirable outcome when using a computer they often blame themselves, not the technology" 10:55:30 <andythenorth> hmm 10:55:42 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=980020#p980020 10:56:05 <Celestar> planetmaker: just write "ASSHAT!" and be done with it 10:56:05 <Noldo> "I'm bad with computers" 10:56:45 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-241-76-120.as13285.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:56:59 <planetmaker> nah, we wanna remain polite :-) 10:57:05 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:57:14 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 10:57:29 <Celestar> what is FIRS in the first place? :P 10:57:32 <Celestar> !FIRS 10:57:40 <andythenorth> !FIRS 10:57:44 <andythenorth> rm -r FIRS 10:57:52 <Celestar> 141 pages O_o 10:58:44 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs and http://wiki.openttd.org/FIRS 10:59:03 <planetmaker> pew. Lucky me, I have a backup 10:59:25 <planetmaker> actually two backups ;-) 11:01:08 <planetmaker> Celestar, it's the industry set for those who're bored of default industries and want something more expansive. But who don't want to care in great detail about strong inter-dependency wrt production levels to depend on concurrent delivery of N > 1 cargos 11:01:12 <peter1138> planetmaker, yeah, i read through all of QC when it was up to the 600s i think 11:04:50 <appe> uhm 11:05:07 <peter1138> hmm? 11:05:08 <appe> dev.openttdcoop.org gives me some wierd translations 11:05:25 <planetmaker> in what way? 11:05:30 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:05:34 <appe> the headlines are translated, and nothing else is. 11:05:38 <__ln___> appe: spelled w-e-i-r-d 11:05:39 * andythenorth tries to summarise FIRS 11:05:40 <andythenorth> fails 11:05:43 <appe> __ln___: ah, sorry. 11:05:51 <planetmaker> hehe, andythenorth :-) 11:06:03 <planetmaker> But that'd be a good exercise, writing a comprehensive readme file for FIRS 11:06:15 <planetmaker> It even became much longer than I anticipated for OpenGFX+ Trains 11:06:35 <planetmaker> And that's nearly only default vehicles and a few modified wagons. Well. Or a bit more :-) 11:06:37 <Celestar> planetmaker: seems like I gotta try it 11:06:43 <peter1138> andythenorth, btw, 0x40 & 0x41 are provisional, just for testing it ;p 11:06:56 <planetmaker> Celestar, definitely ;-) 11:07:01 <andythenorth> my proposal is also provisional :) 11:07:06 <andythenorth> I just needed to move it on a bit 11:07:30 <Celestar> planetmaker: and in some years, use that with destinations :P 11:07:32 <peter1138> i think it was suggested to use 0x80/0x81 to leave more room for type-specific properties 11:07:48 <planetmaker> Celestar, we played it with yacd 11:07:51 <planetmaker> it's awesome 11:07:56 <planetmaker> and not that easy 11:08:31 <peter1138> i wanna play EZ/YACD/YAIM/YAMA 11:08:32 <planetmaker> partly also as yacd would need to supply a mechanism to be disabled for certain cargos or so 11:08:35 <peter1138> hmm 11:08:39 <peter1138> i wanna play YAEZ/YACD/YAIM/YAMA 11:08:40 <peter1138> yes 11:08:41 <planetmaker> yama? 11:08:49 <peter1138> yet another map array 11:08:53 <planetmaker> ah :-) 11:09:09 * andythenorth wants to play YACS 11:09:11 <planetmaker> Well, peter1138, start or continue with item 1 ;-) 11:09:24 * planetmaker quickly hides 11:09:58 * andythenorth wants to play YASS 11:10:13 <andythenorth> Yet Another Ship Smoke 11:11:28 <planetmaker> :-P 11:11:33 <peter1138> question 11:11:33 <Noldo> what are the others? 11:11:50 <Noldo> cargo destinations, 11:11:54 <peter1138> the exist smoke things give a position for the smoke 11:11:56 <planetmaker> andythenorth, you could start by providing a _good_ spec 11:11:57 <peter1138> is that really necessary? 11:12:02 <peter1138> can't it be done with sprite offsets? 11:12:27 <andythenorth> planetmaker: the spec became an unwinnable problem :( 11:12:27 <planetmaker> smoke is not newgrf-able iirc 11:12:30 <andythenorth> I provided a spec 11:12:32 <andythenorth> of sorts 11:12:45 <peter1138> hmm, right, that's the problem, yes 11:12:47 <andythenorth> but then I was told that I hadn't considered the need for full newgrf control of effect vehicles :( 11:12:57 <planetmaker> so, is there a FS issue about it. And with them? 11:13:06 * andythenorth will look 11:13:24 <planetmaker> otherwise every thought has to be re-thought again and again and again 11:13:35 <andythenorth> we concluded that we couldn't do it because it might block the future addition of newgrf effect vehicles 11:13:41 <andythenorth> so we had to spec that 11:13:44 * andythenorth rummages 11:13:56 * andythenorth doesn't care about newgrf effect vehicles, but others might 11:13:59 <planetmaker> goal scripts might drive them :-P 11:14:06 <peter1138> goal scripts? 11:14:07 <peter1138> o_O 11:14:15 <planetmaker> peter1138, would make sense, not? 11:14:26 <planetmaker> Like a goal script having a submarine, heli or ufo appear? 11:14:30 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=51378 11:14:31 <peter1138> oh right 11:14:34 <peter1138> that sort of effect :S 11:14:49 <peter1138> and then there's the chimney smoke effect 11:14:50 <planetmaker> though... that's disaster vehicles. So maybe I'm wrong 11:14:58 <planetmaker> that's different and I might have been confused 11:15:10 <peter1138> hmm 11:15:12 <peter1138> yes 11:15:26 <andythenorth> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4263 < spec of sorts (via mr. frosch), also pictures and crap 11:15:28 <peter1138> BreakdownSMoke vehicle 11:15:29 <peter1138> o_O 11:15:35 <andythenorth> nearly one year old :P 11:15:54 <peter1138> they're all specially hard coded 11:15:55 <peter1138> hmm 11:15:57 <andythenorth> in that year nobody has ever said 'omg, I really need to provide different sparks for electric vehicles' 11:16:36 <peter1138> what effects do you need for ships? steam & diesel smoke? :p 11:16:43 <andythenorth> yup 11:16:50 <peter1138> so that doesn't need new sprites 11:16:51 <andythenorth> they're available, they're just not in the right place 11:16:58 <andythenorth> I need x, y, z control 11:16:59 <peter1138> but does need a way to define the position 11:17:01 <peter1138> yes 11:17:09 <andythenorth> I need to be able to have n (some ships have > 1 funnel) 11:17:22 <andythenorth> and the triggers on acceleration might need adjusting 11:17:34 <peter1138> they always accelerate 11:17:36 <andythenorth> currently ships smoke only briefly :) 11:17:47 <peter1138> they smoke at all? 11:17:52 <andythenorth> occasionally 11:17:55 <peter1138> hmm 11:17:57 <peter1138> ok 11:18:02 <peter1138> never noticed 11:18:24 <andythenorth> FISH ones smoke 11:18:28 <andythenorth> default ones don't 11:20:33 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-238-229.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:25:59 <planetmaker> Noldo, the 3rd one is infrastructure maintenance 11:26:01 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-238-229.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:31:08 <TGYoshi> Since you guys are so ultra-great in math (maybe) you probably know a line equation for this graph: http://imgur.com/Ly0y9 11:33:22 <planetmaker> TGYoshi, something like sin(x) - x 11:33:40 <Celestar> yeah. 11:33:41 <TGYoshi> Nice idea 11:34:00 <Celestar> only the 45° sound wrong, don't they with sin(x) -x ? 11:34:18 * Celestar fires up gnuplot 11:34:23 <Noldo> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sin%28x%29+-+x+ 11:34:30 <TGYoshi> Cool, it seems to work 11:34:34 <TGYoshi> thanks for now 11:34:45 <TGYoshi> I guess I can figure the rest out 11:34:51 <planetmaker> probably a cosine, though ;-) 11:34:52 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:35:07 <Celestar> depends :P 11:36:21 <planetmaker> doesn't really matter ;-) 11:36:41 <planetmaker> cos(x) = sin(x+pi/2) 11:36:44 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-238-229.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:37:25 <Celestar> well 11:37:33 <Celestar> the "graph" somehow misses an origin :P 11:37:36 <Celestar> so it's hard to say :D 11:37:50 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-238-229.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:37:50 <planetmaker> if you don't interpret the | and - as axis: yes 11:38:16 <TGYoshi> mm 11:38:48 <TGYoshi> The origin doesnÂŽt matter 11:38:51 <TGYoshi> ItÂŽs about the shape :P 11:38:57 <Noldo> what are you using it for? 11:39:14 <Celestar> oooh 11:39:17 <Celestar> there is a scale 11:39:19 <Celestar> 1 and 3 11:39:49 <TGYoshi> Such a shape for another shape 11:40:04 <TGYoshi> The top of a 3d object got that shape 11:50:29 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-238-229.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:52:47 <TGYoshi> I guess the derivative of sin(x/2)-x/2 is cos(x/2)-1, isnÂŽt it? 11:53:27 <planetmaker> no 11:53:41 <planetmaker> 0.5 cos(x/2) - 0.5 11:53:41 <TGYoshi> http://fooplot.com/index.php?&type0=0&type1=0&type2=0&type3=0&type4=0&y0=sin%28x/2%29-x/2&y1=cos%28x/2%29-1&y2=&y3=&y4=&r0=&r1=&r2=&r3=&r4=&px0=&px1=&px2=&px3=&px4=&py0=&py1=&py2=&py3=&py4=&smin0=0&smin1=0&smin2=0&smin3=0&smin4=0&smax0=2pi&smax1=2pi&smax2=2pi&smax3=2pi&smax4=2pi&thetamin0=0&thetamin1=0&thetamin2=0&thetamin3=0&thetamin4=0&thetamax0=2pi&thetamax1=2pi&thetamax2=2pi&thetamax3=2pi&thetamax4=2pi&ipw=0&ixmin=-5&ixmax=5&iymin=-3&iymax=3&igx=10&i 11:53:41 <TGYoshi> gy=1&igl=1&igs=0&iax=1&ila=1&xmin=-15.919013330035359&xmax=12.416282533455792&ymin=-6.840751636862924&ymax=9.102743030313068 11:53:42 <TGYoshi> lol 11:54:04 <TGYoshi> aha 11:54:27 <TGYoshi> Why that for the sin -> cos part? 11:55:18 <Celestar> hm? 11:55:23 <planetmaker> [sin(a*x)]' = sin'(a*x) * [a*x]' 11:55:39 <planetmaker> chain rule for derivatives 11:56:00 <Celestar> d/dx [a(b(x))] = d/dx [a(b(x)] + d/dx b(x) 11:56:04 <Celestar> wtb [Tex] 11:56:09 <planetmaker> :-) 11:56:28 <Noldo> I put a function in your fuction so you can... 11:57:10 <TGYoshi> Oh, of course, got it. Thanks :3 11:58:01 <Celestar> and erm 11:58:04 <Celestar> s/+/* 11:58:40 * andythenorth writes a fuction 12:02:14 <peter1138> i once had link to a full-window browser-javascript-based graphing thing 12:02:19 <peter1138> i can't remember it :( 12:03:31 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i must be in the wrong channel... 12:05:14 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d008b83.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:05:42 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: why? 12:05:48 <andythenorth> no never-ending discussion? 12:06:10 <TGYoshi> We can start another discussion about 0/0 if you prefer 12:07:48 <TGYoshi> Anyway, IÂŽm off to school ... [a] 12:12:52 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23228 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix (r23227): FileScanner::Scan() still did not scan all required directories for basesets. 12:14:22 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:28:07 <Celestar> bah 12:28:14 * Celestar thinks he's getting ill 12:39:38 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db1a17b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:39:57 <Eddi|zuHause> "Schönheit (denn gesund wirst du von allein)" :p 12:41:03 *** keoz [~keikoz@141.2.96.19] has joined #openttd 12:57:26 <peter1138> i've got a bug report, fast forward isn't very fast with lots of ais!!!! 12:57:49 <andythenorth> buy a bigger box :P 12:58:04 <andythenorth> are the AIs MP aware? 12:58:16 * andythenorth can guess the answer 13:00:09 <frosch123> andythenorth: i don't think ais team up against the humans in mp 13:00:32 <andythenorth> I should have said multi-threaded :P 13:00:48 <planetmaker> they aren't 13:01:06 <andythenorth> I win my bet 13:01:17 <planetmaker> good. Here's a hazelnut 13:01:24 <planetmaker> Other prices are currently out ;-) 13:04:57 <andythenorth> thanks 13:05:09 <andythenorth> where's Eddi|zuHause when I need him? :) 13:06:08 *** keoz [~keikoz@141.2.96.19] has quit [Quit: keoz] 13:16:33 <Eddi|zuHause> eating 13:20:31 <andythenorth> :) 13:26:12 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:868:12e:a976:ad1e] has joined #openttd 13:26:15 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:30:53 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-85-57.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:36:39 *** heffer [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has joined #openttd 13:54:24 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-238-229.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:01:18 *** Celestar [~dax@89.204.137.96] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:22:36 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 14:28:09 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 14:35:27 <Belugas> hello 14:46:58 <peter1138> hi 14:48:23 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-238-229.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:54:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so what's the emergency? 14:59:33 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:49 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 15:06:56 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... cost... with lack of comprehensive lists of real costs, maybe: purchase cost based on engine type and weight, running costs based on power and top speed? 15:13:38 <TWerkhoven> sounds sensible 15:18:12 <Eddi|zuHause> how often is the running cost callback called? 15:20:03 <planetmaker> start/stop. Depot and railtype probably 15:20:20 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: pikka has a really nice blog post about how he calculates costs 15:20:30 <Eddi|zuHause> link? 15:20:49 * andythenorth looks 15:20:59 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'm fairly sure it's more often than that 15:21:30 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: this, and some related posts on his blog: http://pikkabird.livejournal.com/16815.html 15:22:04 <frosch123> running cost callback is called constantly 15:22:36 <andythenorth> http://pikkabird.livejournal.com/15036.html 15:22:38 <frosch123> once per day for a vehicle iirc 15:23:12 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: for FISH I have costs from a spreadsheet, sounds complicated, but isn't really 15:23:38 <andythenorth> I use things like number of crew, weight, type of fuel for running costs 15:23:45 <planetmaker> andythenorth, the whole CETS is from a single spreadsheet ;-) 15:23:56 <planetmaker> every single frigging property :-P 15:24:01 <andythenorth> with multipliers for insane things like hovercraft powered by gas turbines 15:24:02 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: now i need persistent storage of the motion counter to determine the amount of tiles moved between two calls 15:24:24 <peter1138> CETS looks nice 15:24:33 <peter1138> can't wait for it to be playable :) 15:24:36 * andythenorth needs a new trainset 15:24:50 <andythenorth> canset? 15:24:52 <andythenorth> no canset :P 15:24:54 <peter1138> lol 15:25:06 <peter1138> you scuppered that one 15:25:10 <andythenorth> all my fault 15:25:11 <andythenorth> me 15:25:13 <andythenorth> I did it 15:25:19 <peter1138> yup, all your fault 15:25:27 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you know that I take your comment about me in canset thread as a compliment? 15:25:29 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: don't you think you overcomplicate stuff? 15:25:42 <andythenorth> what else is stuff for, if not over-complicating :P 15:25:56 <frosch123> the driver is paid on time, and not of distance traveled 15:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: my idea is that rather than running cost per year, i'd have running cost per tile 15:26:14 <planetmaker> ehm... why *that*? 15:26:19 <planetmaker> Do it per day and by velocity 15:26:20 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. fuel costs 15:26:22 <planetmaker> it's equivalent 15:26:22 <andythenorth> related to distance travel 15:26:35 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you should also check slope 15:26:55 <andythenorth> I think pikka checks whether the vehicle is accelerating (there's a var for that?) 15:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: afair pikka's scheme fails when the max speed of the track is lower than the max speed of the engine 15:27:44 <andythenorth> oh, so he checks speed against maximum? 15:27:50 <andythenorth> and assumes acceleration otherwise 15:28:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: pikkas post doesn't contain any technical information, though 15:29:21 <frosch123> pikka checks speed for != 0 15:29:49 <andythenorth> pikka says " Incidentally, the technical specs and subroutines for the variable running costs in NARS are available if anyone wants to use them in their own sets." 15:29:53 <frosch123> 0 for stopped, FAIL for running (i.e. propertY) 15:30:25 <andythenorth> does the game actually know the power output of the vehicle at this point? 15:30:37 <andythenorth> the physics does, in some sense 15:32:18 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 15:32:41 <frosch123> ttd physics assume constant power output 15:32:52 <frosch123> only limited by te, but independent of speed 15:34:01 <Eddi|zuHause> so what speed is 1 tile per day? 15:34:27 <peter1138> 1 tile per day 15:34:52 <peter1138> 16 subunits 15:34:58 <peter1138> 74 ticks? 15:35:23 <peter1138> iirc, 1 subunit / tick = 60 mph 15:35:24 <frosch123> maybe 16 mph is one tile per day 15:36:09 <Eddi|zuHause> blatant use of half-knowledge, if grf-speed-units = added to subspeed, advance 1 unit every time it overflows 15:36:35 <frosch123> @calc 16*256 / 74 15:36:35 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 55.3513513514 15:36:40 <Terkhen> hello 15:36:45 <frosch123> would match about 60 15:37:01 <Eddi|zuHause> then every 74 ticks you must move 16*256=4096 "subspeed" units in 74 ticks 15:37:11 <Eddi|zuHause> err... whatever 15:37:26 <Eddi|zuHause> 55km/h-ish? 15:37:27 <peter1138> hmm, sorry, what was the real question? :S 15:37:36 * andythenorth gets lost trying to do physics 15:38:00 <frosch123> yeah, km/h-ish, not mph 15:38:00 <andythenorth> running cost directly proportional to fuel consumption? 15:38:08 <andythenorth> maybe not 15:38:12 <peter1138> yeah 15:38:17 <Eddi|zuHause> no, wait, a train advances twice per tick 15:38:24 * andythenorth will go back to making email newsletters :P 15:38:43 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 16*256 / 74/2 15:38:43 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 27.6756756757 15:41:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, looks like 55km/h equals around 2 tiles per day 15:50:42 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:54:14 <peter1138> vehicle movement code is confusing 15:54:20 <peter1138> speed * 3 / 4? 15:55:01 <peter1138> i just have to keep reminding myself that it's a game and it doesn't need precision 15:56:23 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-78-146-186-113.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 15:57:24 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: a tile is 668.(216) km, so 668.(216)/24 km/h 15:58:01 <peter1138> :D 15:58:07 <Rubidium> hmm, sorry... mixing up numbers ;) 664.(216) km-ish or 668 km 15:58:28 <Rubidium> quite simple math though 15:58:46 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 668/24 15:58:46 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 27.8333333333 15:59:06 <Eddi|zuHause> so an ingame day has 27h? :) 15:59:23 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, no, misread you 15:59:29 <Rubidium> no 15:59:57 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 664.216/24 15:59:57 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 27.6756666667 16:00:14 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 664.216216/24 16:00:14 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 27.6756756667 16:00:21 * andythenorth ponders running cost using consist weight as a factor 16:00:37 <Eddi|zuHause> so yes, that's around the same value 16:00:39 <andythenorth> also...rolling resistance of vehicles :P 16:00:53 <Rubidium> http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Vehicle_speeds <- for the more thorough definition ;) 16:00:57 <andythenorth> also, requirement for brakemen, drivers mates, etc 16:01:11 <andythenorth> also man with red flag walking in front of vehicle 16:01:45 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomotive_Acts 16:24:19 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-78-146-186-113.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:28:00 *** TomyLobo [~foo@p5494642D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:28:25 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Unless I calculated it totally wrong for YACD, 128 km/h-ish means 1 tick / lu 16:29:31 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 16:30:02 <TomyLobo> hi 16:30:11 <TomyLobo> is there an alternate graphics set for toyland? 16:30:28 <TomyLobo> the default one in opengfx is kinda crappy 16:32:28 <SpComb> yes, there's the temperate, desert and arctic ones 16:32:54 *** Snail__ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 16:32:54 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:03 <TomyLobo> but i've played them all 16:33:14 <TomyLobo> i want to play with toyland's industry chains, vehicles etc 16:36:36 <andythenorth> meh 16:36:37 <andythenorth> toyland 16:36:55 <TomyLobo> but especially the empty terrain is confusing and eyecancery 16:38:21 <frosch123> then you never played with the original toyland :p 16:38:56 <planetmaker> toyland2mars conversion ;-) 16:39:12 <frosch123> http://www.openttd.org/en/screenshot/0.4.8/toyland <- ogfx is so much better than that 16:39:26 <TomyLobo> planetmaker hehe nah 16:39:39 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7327E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:39:56 <TomyLobo> frosch123 woah you're right 16:42:08 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74E6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:46:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.164.53] has joined #openttd 16:47:24 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-024-162.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 16:49:27 <Terkhen> yes, ogfx is actually the good one 16:49:36 <Terkhen> if you don't like it, the only other option is probably toyland2mars 16:51:48 <TomyLobo> but that gives me temperate vehicles and industries 16:53:38 <TomyLobo> ages ago, i've seen a graph with all the industries in a climate. i think it was on the wiki, but i cant find it anymore 16:54:51 <planetmaker> TomyLobo: additionally then use ogfx+trains with the right parameters, if you like toyland trains 16:55:33 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:57:05 <TGYoshi> Err, playing in toyland? 16:57:10 <TGYoshi> Why does it even exist.. 16:58:26 <TomyLobo> http://wiki.openttd.org/Cargo found it \o/ 16:59:38 <planetmaker> TGYoshi: because it's a nice and unique climate 17:00:18 <TGYoshi> Yay... 17:00:26 <TGYoshi> ItÂŽs what you call nice ;) 17:00:28 <Eddi|zuHause> well... if that crazy NUTS were to get off the ground, it could be a nice toyland set 17:01:17 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 17:09:03 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 17:35:09 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:53:32 <planetmaker> what's in newgrf the result of an actionD which divides a/a for a == 0? 17:57:38 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-024-162.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 17:58:17 <frosch123> if the specs say nothing, then it is undefined 17:58:46 <planetmaker> I didn't find anything 17:59:35 <glx> and what does the code say ? 17:59:46 <frosch123> looks like both ottd and ttdp return a for a/0 17:59:51 <planetmaker> I didn't yet look, glx ;-) 18:00:21 <frosch123> grfact.asm:3301 18:00:32 <frosch123> newgrf.cpp:6486 18:00:33 <planetmaker> so 0/0 = 0 18:00:41 <frosch123> yes 18:00:56 <planetmaker> and 2/2 = 1 18:01:09 <planetmaker> so a/a is basically a test of a != 0 18:01:26 <frosch123> yeah :p 18:01:31 <frosch123> who uses it like that? :p 18:01:32 <Eddi|zuHause> you'd be crazy to rely on that 18:01:40 <planetmaker> I think NML does: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/760/ 18:02:24 <planetmaker> I try to understand why not all parameter to swedish rails work like they should. But I fail to see a fault in my code there, so I thought to look at NFO level 18:02:41 <planetmaker> (line 10 in the paste) 18:03:15 <frosch123> why are you not using grf2html for that? 18:03:29 <planetmaker> good question :-) 18:03:31 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 18:04:05 <planetmaker> I probably should install it :-) 18:04:26 <planetmaker> or rather make it known in the path 18:06:44 <planetmaker> errm... 18:09:52 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-238-229.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:11:23 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-238-229.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 18:11:55 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-238-229.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:25:53 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@sirius.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:30:33 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:32:20 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:33:48 *** Snail__ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail__] 18:35:03 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:37:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:44:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23229 /trunk/src/lang/hungarian.txt: 18:44:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:44:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 changes by IPG 18:46:21 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-69-0-3.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:47:24 <TomyLobo> do power stations ever disappear? 18:47:43 <planetmaker> default: no 18:47:46 <z-MaTRiX> hi 18:47:48 <z-MaTRiX> :) 18:47:53 <planetmaker> newgrf: depends 18:47:55 <TomyLobo> is it a config option? 18:47:58 <TomyLobo> ah 18:48:09 <z-MaTRiX> what is your opinion of an 64MB ati 9000 agp card? 18:48:18 <z-MaTRiX> (under linux) 18:52:15 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52:17 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 18:55:52 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-34-60.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:05:49 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-31-203.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:10:43 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-34-60.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:11:57 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: ptr] 19:12:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:13:27 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.99.75] has joined #openttd 19:17:31 * andythenorth ponders what to do 19:18:35 <z-MaTRiX> andythenorth<< play openttd? :) 19:18:42 <andythenorth> nah 19:18:45 <andythenorth> hmm 19:18:51 <andythenorth> peter1138 wanted a network game of something 19:22:56 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 19:24:05 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [] 19:24:32 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 19:27:27 <appe> hm 19:27:47 <appe> i cant seem to find a grf containing antonov 225. 19:28:31 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 19:29:56 <planetmaker> search the russian forums 19:32:52 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:32:55 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 19:34:28 * andythenorth does work 19:34:43 <andythenorth> why are the tram offsets wrong? I guess I should read the code :P 19:39:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23230 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Codechange: stupid casing for UnPause. It's a single word, not two words "CamelCased" after eachother 19:40:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: either your sprite offsets are wrong, or tram rails are misaligned 19:40:29 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: could be either 19:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in theory, road vehicles and trams should have the exact same alignment 19:40:47 <andythenorth> let me screenshot 19:43:07 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 19:43:19 <MNIM> Appe: I thought av8 had one? 19:43:53 <MNIM> or was that the 124? 19:44:57 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-238-229.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:44:58 <appe> not what i can see 19:46:28 <peter1138> andythenorth, yes, YAIM/YAEZ/YACD/YAMA :D 19:46:40 <andythenorth> peter1138: and YACS :P 19:46:57 <peter1138> wouldn't have be a grf set? 19:47:08 <andythenorth> he 19:47:14 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-238-229.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:48:12 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.49.159] has joined #openttd 19:48:48 <andythenorth> so I need to build some patches and crap 19:50:40 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2092/trams_offsets.png 19:51:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what if you let that same vehicle drive on roads? 19:51:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and compare it with trucks? 19:52:28 * andythenorth tries 19:52:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23231 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] Make train var 0xF3 consistent with TTDPatch. 19:55:02 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: inconclusive 19:55:43 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2093/tram_offsets_2.png 19:55:53 <andythenorth> the correct answer could be 'my tram is drawn too narrow' 19:55:56 <andythenorth> :| 19:56:35 <MNIM> Well, it looks to me like the tram going down is offset too low 19:56:59 <andythenorth> yes, it obscures the rail 19:57:05 <andythenorth> and the one going up is too high 20:03:19 <andythenorth> peter1138: where's YAEZ? And YAMA? 20:04:52 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 20:10:47 <peter1138> pass ;) 20:11:08 <andythenorth> meh :D 20:11:25 <peter1138> andythenorth, fix your sprite offsets ;) 20:12:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if you make the tram narrower, of course you have to compensate the offsets 20:12:32 <andythenorth> bah 20:12:44 <andythenorth> now I can't just reuse angles :P 20:15:31 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 20:16:30 <peter1138> :) 20:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but the truck doesn't seem to have correct offsets either 20:17:05 <andythenorth> where's the code that lets me set different offset according to drive side? 20:17:10 <andythenorth> is there a varact 2 for that? 20:17:13 * andythenorth looks 20:18:00 <Eddi|zuHause> that should be one of the TTDPatch flags 20:18:02 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-24-140.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:18:15 * andythenorth looks 20:19:32 <andythenorth> hmm 20:19:47 <andythenorth> wiki doesn't know about a var I can check for 'drive side' - only a string 20:21:02 <MNIM> D: 20:21:04 <andythenorth> with drive on right - offsets look ok 20:21:04 <MNIM> wat de 20:21:16 <MNIM> ottd just crashed on me 20:21:18 <andythenorth> so I need to write custom real sprites with different offsets for drive on left 20:21:23 <andythenorth> and use action 7 or so 20:21:36 <andythenorth> or... 20:21:50 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/GlobalVariables <-- VarAction2 06 20:21:53 <MNIM> hmmmh. 20:21:57 <MNIM> again 20:22:02 <planetmaker> or action7 86 20:22:03 * MNIM blames the newgrfs 20:23:03 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-31-203.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:25:11 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:26:31 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:41 <andythenorth> planetmaker: thanks 20:29:40 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23232 /trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): -Change: move the "default" overrides out of the baseset in order to ensure they all use the same values 20:30:38 <andythenorth> is adjusting the offsets in the newgrf the correct solution? 20:34:29 *** JVassie_ [~James@2.27.99.75] has joined #openttd 20:34:43 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:35:18 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-2-96-23-209.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 20:35:58 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.99.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:46:35 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23233 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Refactor maximum and actually transported cargo amount of towns into a reusable struct. 20:47:36 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.99.75] has joined #openttd 20:50:49 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-024-162.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 20:52:48 *** JVassie_ [~James@2.27.99.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:04:43 * andythenorth ponders why RV offsets are treated differently for RHS and LHS drive 21:05:33 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-2-96-23-209.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause> it's to do with the bounding box. the center of the bounding box is not the anchor point of the sprite 21:05:43 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:05:50 * andythenorth reads code 21:05:52 <Eddi|zuHause> if it were, the offsets would be the same 21:06:23 <Eddi|zuHause> but the anchor point is the back (invisible) corner of the bounding box, so if you make the vehicle narrower than the bounding box, you must adjust the offset 21:07:08 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i already told that that is not the case for vehicles 21:07:36 <frosch123> the anchor point for vehicle sprites is indeed the center of vehicle (on ground) 21:09:27 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: then why is the anchor point different for the / view depending on the travel direction? 21:09:47 <frosch123> for trains it is 4/8 from the front of the vehicle 21:09:53 <andythenorth> I don't mind if the answer is 'code custom offsets in the grf' 21:09:54 <frosch123> independent of vehicle length 21:10:01 <andythenorth> ^^ just seems a bit odd 21:10:06 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc12-linl7-2-0-cust144.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 21:10:21 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: and coincidentally that difference matches exactly the offset between the corners of the bounding box 21:10:21 <frosch123> though that might change when fs#???? gets fixed 21:10:32 <frosch123> which we should imo do, before grfs start to rely on that bug :p 21:11:11 *** LordAro [568ed815@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:11:17 <LordAro> evening 21:11:24 <andythenorth> hi LordAro 21:11:47 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean fs#3569? 21:11:57 <Eddi|zuHause> this has nothing to do with that 21:12:25 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: what you mean is the position of the vehicle on the map 21:12:34 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that is indeed the center of the bounding box 21:12:39 <frosch123> UpdateDeltaXY defines the offset between the bounding box back corner, and the vehicle position 21:13:18 *** Snail__ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 21:13:18 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:22 <frosch123> hmm, ok, that way... 21:13:28 <frosch123> yeah, you might be right then 21:17:06 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-2-96-23-91.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 21:18:19 <andythenorth> so it's not an easy thing to transform according to drive side? 21:18:31 <andythenorth> I have to check and adjust each vehicle? 21:18:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it should be the same for all vehicles 21:19:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: as long as they are drawn to the same width scale 21:19:07 <andythenorth> so ott could do the transform? 21:19:12 <andythenorth> oh 21:19:14 <andythenorth> no then 21:19:59 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: all this offset and length mess might be a good thing for grfv8 21:21:44 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:21:55 * andythenorth contemplates disabling HEQS if drive side is 'left' 21:22:01 <andythenorth> but that's rather an odd idea 21:23:04 <planetmaker> :-P 21:23:06 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 21:23:55 <frosch123> would have expected the reverse behaviour from andy 21:24:12 <andythenorth> in my test (so far) the issue only shows up for LH drive 21:24:17 <andythenorth> I haven't tested all angles 21:24:30 <andythenorth> now I've noticed it, it's bugging me :P 21:24:33 <andythenorth> most people won't care 21:24:52 <frosch123> most people drive on the right anyway 21:25:15 <andythenorth> changing drive side in my game - explains why I've more than once gone through HEQS and tweaked all offsets, thinking 'how did I get it so wrong?' 21:26:00 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-69-0-3.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 21:26:14 <Eddi|zuHause> there has been some remote island that switched from right to left 21:27:47 <LordAro> frosch123: most people drive on the wrong side of the road ;) 21:28:16 * Belugas drives at the center of the road 21:28:34 <frosch123> well, it's generally best to drive on that side of the road, which the other cars driving in your direction choose 21:28:52 <planetmaker> not that easy though ;-) 21:29:06 <Eddi|zuHause> occasionally people fail at that 21:29:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but it appears only germans actually have a word for that :p 21:31:15 <planetmaker> oh, it was quite weired when I turned right from a one-way road and wondered why on the next traffic lights all cars were facing the direction towards me... until I noticed that I better and quickly drive two lanes further left ;-) 21:31:55 <andythenorth> hmm 21:31:56 <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p 21:32:08 <andythenorth> none if this will get my email newsletter written :P 21:32:44 <Eddi|zuHause> www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jqz0YTq9hQ 21:32:57 * andythenorth wants to do a good day's work, and is running out of day to do it with 21:33:25 <Terkhen> doing nothing can also be very satisfying when done sparingly :P 21:34:18 <planetmaker> you should quote links with http:// , Eddi|zuHause 21:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> only if your url parser is stupid 21:35:08 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: did czech drive on left before ww2? 21:35:21 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: whole of (former) austria drove on left 21:35:56 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the germans tried to "clean up" that mess 21:38:15 <Eddi|zuHause> they didn't quite finish the job with austrian railways. up to now, in some regions in austria trains drive on the left 21:39:00 <frosch123> hmm, according to wiki, it was "left" everywhere, before napolean messed it up 21:39:30 <frosch123> though it does not mention the reasoning of napoleon 21:39:31 <Terkhen> yes, it is a stupid mess that acomplishes nothing 21:40:11 <Eddi|zuHause> in france, trains also drive on the left 21:40:15 <Eddi|zuHause> except in alsace 21:41:18 <glx> and metro drive on the right so trains can't use the network IIRC 21:46:58 *** ptr is now known as Guest17211 21:53:51 *** LordAro [568ed815@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:55:55 <andythenorth> I should raise a fs ticket about offsets and drive side? Or it's an issue for HEQS? 21:58:09 <Rubidium> I'd argue the offsets are the same as in TTDPatch, so they match the specs 21:58:11 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:58:24 <Rubidium> even though one might argue the specs are wrong on that point 21:59:03 <andythenorth> I can make it a HEQS issue 21:59:05 <Rubidium> however, changing those specs without breaking older NewGRFs is (IMO) way too much work, which is basically why FS#3569 is still not fixed (and probably won't be fixed) 21:59:17 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-238-229.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:59:30 <andythenorth> nml could fix it? 21:59:52 <Eddi|zuHause> no 22:00:35 <andythenorth> no way to write every real sprite twice, with a transform on the offsets? 22:00:37 <andythenorth> then branch? 22:00:57 <andythenorth> according to drive side 22:02:35 <planetmaker> of course you could give different offsets for different variable values 22:02:39 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-238-229.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:02:44 <planetmaker> but you can do that in nfo, too 22:03:00 <andythenorth> only manually :| 22:03:13 <Eddi|zuHause> you do that once in your template 22:03:49 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:04:00 <andythenorth> I'd have to ditch action 3 for cargos 22:04:13 <andythenorth> and do cargo graphics switch on a varact 2 instead 22:04:57 <Eddi|zuHause> why? 22:05:00 <planetmaker> no, why? 22:06:01 <planetmaker> the action3 would link to a lhs / rhs drive switch which has the graphics for that particular cargo 22:06:19 <andythenorth> that's a lot of switches :P 22:06:27 <andythenorth> still, could be templated 22:06:39 <andythenorth> and most of the offsets are defines already 22:06:43 <andythenorth> so it's possible 22:07:03 <andythenorth> if I do this, will you fix ottd in future and screw my grf? 22:07:03 <planetmaker> the switch would be part of the template 22:07:43 <andythenorth> yup 22:07:47 <andythenorth> I can see how to do it 22:08:23 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, GRF specs are guaranteed to be backwards compatible 22:08:36 <andythenorth> meh 22:08:40 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: except grfv8 for the next ~2 month 22:08:40 <andythenorth> writing code is fun anyway 22:09:28 <andythenorth> I should update the newgrf wiki with information about this 22:09:49 <andythenorth> it's another little piece of live ordnance for newgrf authors 22:12:08 <andythenorth> trip over it and it will explode all over your face :P 22:14:00 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-238-229.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:16:30 <andythenorth> good night 22:16:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:17:13 *** Guest17211 [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 22:18:31 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-006-041.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 22:20:56 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.49.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:26:27 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:35:09 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Poof] 22:47:32 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 22:51:20 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-238-229.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:51:40 <Terkhen> good night 22:54:03 <planetmaker> good night 23:00:46 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:06:41 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B4C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:02 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 23:21:07 <frosch123> night 23:21:10 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d008b83.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:54 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:52 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.99.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:59:08 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop]