Log for #openttd on 21st November 2011:
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00:00:45  <XeryusTC> gn TrueBrain and Xaroth ;)
00:00:51  <TrueBrain> night XeryusTC :)
00:00:58  <Xaroth> nn XeryusTC
00:01:16  <TrueBrain> Yexo: but if we attach _current_company to the thread storage, make OTTD2SQ part of the instance, lock the main thread and run all AIs at the same time, caching their DoCommands ... it _should_ be possible to massively paralise them :P
00:01:33  <TrueBrain> the API is pretty much contained
00:01:49  <Yexo> there are quite some calls to openttd core, we'd have to check each of those very carefullly
00:01:56  <glx> yeah remove globals :)
00:01:56  <TrueBrain> those are only read calls
00:02:01  <TrueBrain> so those are safe
00:02:05  <TrueBrain> as the main thread is standing still
00:02:27  <glx> globals are bad and should be exterminated :)
00:02:28  <TrueBrain> and 2 AIs reading the same peice of memory .. well .. nobody cares :)
00:03:00  <TrueBrain> and all write commands are done via DoCommands, so fully contained in a (local) queue
00:03:11  <glx> as safe as MP
00:03:17  <TrueBrain> exactly ;)
00:03:22  <Yexo> one problem might be that you can't even do a DoCommand while the other AIs are reading stuff
00:03:24  <TrueBrain> that is why I know there is no writing outside DoCommands :P
00:03:27  <Yexo> I mean not even in TestMode
00:03:33  <TrueBrain> Yexo: you do not execute the DoCommand :)
00:03:37  <TrueBrain> why not?
00:03:41  <TrueBrain> it is also just reading of facts
00:03:58  <Yexo> because I think some commands do and undo stuff in test mode
00:04:06  <TrueBrain> those would be bad
00:04:08  <glx> like a player thinking what to do based on what he saw
00:04:09  <TrueBrain> and I realise, one other case
00:04:15  <TrueBrain> where there is global temporary variable ;)
00:04:19  *** welshdragon [] has quit [Quit: welshdragon]
00:04:42  <TrueBrain> (we have more variants of static varaibles used in functions :P)
00:04:43  <Yexo> which is?
00:05:04  <TrueBrain> I wonder if things like _cmd_text still exist
00:05:24  <Yexo> not with that name
00:05:34  <glx> I think it has been replaced
00:05:52  <TrueBrain> I think it was now part of the DoCommand structure
00:05:55  <TrueBrain> which makes it safe again :)
00:06:03  <TrueBrain> but yeah, Yexo, you might be right there are a few places that will cause issues :)
00:06:11  <TrueBrain> but at least, because it is tightly contained, those are findable :)
00:06:26  <Yexo> yes, that's true :)
00:06:37  <TrueBrain> so, making AIs threadable is not unthinkable
00:06:43  <TrueBrain> now in terms of performance gain ... I dunno
00:06:58  <TrueBrain> there will be some, in corner cases ... like with 16 AIs ..
00:07:25  <TrueBrain> I am afraid the locking and switching in fact hurts performance in most use-cases :P
00:07:44  <Yexo> yes, I think so too
00:07:49  <Swissfan91> is there a template for drawing railway station tiles? how do I know how much of a gap to leave for the track?
00:08:21  <Yexo> never measured anything, but I think the major part of AI time is not spend executing squirrel code but executing test commands
00:08:21  <glx> station tiles need at least 2 parts
00:08:43  <TrueBrain> Yexo: after NoGo, I might profile those things a bit, to get a visual image of what is going on
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00:08:59  <TrueBrain> I am just very curious what takes most time
00:09:08  <TrueBrain> I cant imagine it is Squirrel, as it performed very well during tests
00:09:13  <Yexo> Swissfan91: did you see ?
00:11:53  <Swissfan91> ah yes, thanks Yexo :)
00:12:15  <Swissfan91> i just have so many ideas - hence the NewObjects, Towns, Industries and now stations :P
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00:20:49  <Swissfan91> so i need two completely seperate sprites? or in the same sprite sheet? are there any example station sprite sheets floating around i can see?
00:22:00  <z-MaTRiX> they say sprite is cool but i prefer mineral water instead ;/
00:22:44  <Pinkbeast> Swiss> I would do it as two separate sprites in the same sheet, each of which occupies the relevant half of the area.
00:23:30  <Swissfan91> ok, cool.
00:24:23  <Yexo> Swissfan91: they need to be two separate sprites
00:24:34  <Yexo> whether or not those are in the same file is completely up to you
00:24:47  <Swissfan91> ah, ok.
00:24:56  <Swissfan91> on an unrelated note - does anyone know if its possible to have a 1x2 newobject tile that is 1 down slope tile and 1 flat tile?
00:25:00  <Yexo> <- not sure if that does help you, but it's a station newgrf
00:25:04  <Pinkbeast> Well, putting them in two files just lets them get separated from each other.
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00:25:11  <Yexo> yes, that's possible
00:25:54  <Swissfan91> i sense a 'but' coming :)
00:26:08  <Yexo> no but
00:26:11  <Yexo> it's just possible :)
00:26:18  <glx> some industries do that
00:26:40  <Yexo> industries are not objects though
00:26:55  <glx> you just need to do the right callbacks I think
00:27:16  <Yexo> yep (whereas with industries I don't think you'd need any callbacks at all)
00:27:35  <glx> remember ECS tourist stuff ?
00:27:41  <Yexo> yes
00:28:05  <glx> it uses callbacks to analyse terrain (and reject construction)
00:28:24  <Swissfan91> I see. I was thinking of a ski jump, like
00:28:24  <Swissfan91> 229&sig=107238041530745376254&page=6&tbnh=104&tbnw=166&start=54&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:54&tx=62&ty=29
00:28:27  <Swissfan91> excuse the link.
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00:28:43  <Yexo> that you don't need any callbacks doesn't mean you can't use them for additional checks
00:29:52  <z-MaTRiX> Swissfan91<< according to your google session, you search many porn sites
00:31:32  * Pinkbeast blinks like that was a little out of left field
00:33:41  <Swissfan91> i'm sorry? O.o
00:34:20  <z-MaTRiX> was a tracking spyware comment, you know, google plays bigbrother with you :)
00:34:59  <Swissfan91> man, i'm confused.
00:35:29  * z-MaTRiX playz Sylver - Confused
00:37:46  <z-MaTRiX> i have an ai 9000, should i go for the ati x550 ?
00:38:01  <z-MaTRiX> s/ai/ati/
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02:04:23  <Xaroth> haha
02:04:26  <Xaroth> nn planetmaker  :P
02:04:33  <planetmaker> night :-)
02:04:42  <Xaroth> you said you were going well over an hour ago :P
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03:20:31  <Eddi|zuHause> <Yexo> one problem might be that you can't even do a DoCommand while the other AIs are reading stuff <-- how about issuing a DoCommand will immediately end the AI's tick? results will then be ready at the next tick
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05:19:20  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: then there's also an issue with using global variables to pass information to other functions :(
05:41:32  <anonvocis> Do you use UML at all?
05:41:53  <anonvocis> To plan current or future development of OTTD?
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07:30:54  <peter1138> "An 898 tonne train (ICE3 with 360KL of oil)" nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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07:51:17  <SpComb> peter1138: indeed, it should be a Transrapid
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08:02:53  <Celestar> moooorning
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08:38:33  <peter1138> hmm, are we supposed to use dos or windows versions of newgrfs these days?
08:38:52  <peter1138> i added dbsetxlw but it defaulted to dos
08:41:19  <planetmaker> peter1138: adv. setting: default palette for newgrfs
08:43:33  <dihedral> good morning
08:45:01  <Celestar> hi
08:50:38  <dihedral> Celestar, it's nice to see you here for a bit longer ;-)
09:06:56  <Celestar> I hope it stays that way :)
09:07:11  <Celestar> I just didn't have time for coding this weekend.
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09:37:24  <Arafangion> Celestar: Don't code again, and you'll have time to stay here. ;)
09:42:15  <Celestar> haha
09:42:18  <Celestar> good point
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10:06:56  <dihedral> i do not have a lot of time to code either
10:07:04  <dihedral> but i do enjoy the time i do have for coding ;-)
10:22:03  <Xaroth> wow, there have been people on the nogo servers all night o_O
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10:40:07  <dihedral> nogo servers?
10:44:38  <planetmaker> yes. clearly no ananas nor tomatoes
10:45:07  <Sacro> no ananas?
10:45:14  <Sacro> yes, we have no ananas
10:45:19  <Sacro> we have no ananas today
10:45:40  <planetmaker> at least I hope, no ananas:
10:46:39  <Xaroth> dih: you should check the forums more often :P
10:46:48  <dihedral> :-P
10:46:50  <dihedral> hehe
10:47:08  <Xaroth> planetmaker: last I heard from tb before he went zzz is that we made more money than coop transport with just transporting oil over silly lengths :P
10:47:32  <planetmaker> might be. it makes good money
10:47:50  <dihedral> good job openttdcoop is not about money :-P
10:48:58  <dihedral> Xaroth, feed me with a link?
10:50:34  <Xaroth>
10:52:18  <dihedral> what is that??
10:52:37  <Xaroth> NoGo :)
10:52:47  <V453000> is that "just" an enhancement of what towns require to grow?
10:55:46  <Xaroth> read the topic
10:55:50  <Xaroth> and read the other topic about it
10:56:13  <dihedral> well if it's too hard to tell, i dont see a reason to check out ;-)
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10:58:46  <planetmaker> we're not curious ;-)
11:02:07  <Xaroth> dihedral: well somebody figured it out just by the hints, so it's not that hard.
11:02:27  <Xaroth> but it was too easy to point you to
11:05:08  <dihedral> interesting
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11:13:02  <dihedral> noooo not guru3 :-(
11:13:48  <peter1138> hmm, my train has an invalid length, apparently
11:14:15  <peter1138> why would i get that message?
11:14:59  <peter1138> with dbsetxl, and the BR01 engine
11:15:59  <planetmaker> changed newgrfs after creation?
11:16:01  <peter1138> nope
11:17:58  <planetmaker> Xaroth: but did you kill the server of last night? :-(
11:18:03  <peter1138> oh
11:18:13  <peter1138> wait a minute, i have michi_cc's patch applied
11:18:17  <peter1138> michi_cc ^^
11:19:26  <peter1138> the bounding box is different after sending the train to the depot
11:25:47  <Eddi|zuHause> ohh... someone has the opinion that IS2 is "well tested" :p
11:27:39  <Xaroth> planetmaker: no, people were on it until the reset date
11:27:45  <Xaroth> which was at around 10am this morning
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11:30:06  <planetmaker> I guess I hate automatic reset dates
11:30:14  <planetmaker> no fun to look at stuff again
11:30:30  <planetmaker> :-(
11:31:21  <Xaroth> yeh, i'm really tempted to just rip it out
11:31:24  <Xaroth> and reset only with new versions
11:36:44  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, directly below a crash report, yes
11:38:19  <planetmaker> :-)
11:43:20  <appe_> where can i find the original ttd music in midi?
11:43:46  <Eddi|zuHause> on your original CD
11:44:07  <appe_> ah, buggers.
11:44:21  <planetmaker> what do you expect?
11:44:36  <planetmaker> help for copyright infringement?
11:44:42  <appe_> nothing really, i was hoping for a CC licence or something
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11:47:24  <Xaroth> that's called opensfx?
11:47:30  <Xaroth> or whatever that license is
11:48:38  <planetmaker> openmsx for music. That's gpl v2
11:48:55  <planetmaker> opensfx for sound. that's CC sampling plus
11:51:02  <appe> i see
11:53:39  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: and we made the most epic oil line ..... we did more in a year than you did :P
11:53:51  <TrueBrain> there were over 4000 goods ready :P You were transporting just 15% :P
11:54:20  <planetmaker> I didn't build for money but for town growth ;-)
11:54:26  <planetmaker> So how large was yours? :-P
11:54:34  <TrueBrain> :D:D
11:54:42  <TrueBrain> it was fun .. sad the server kept running :'(
11:54:55  <planetmaker> rather that it shutdown. yes
11:55:04  <TrueBrain> well, restarted :P
11:55:08  <planetmaker> same thing
11:55:13  <TrueBrain> at a certain moment I had 100 trains on the track :P
11:55:30  <TrueBrain> from start to end you had trains, both ways :D
11:55:32  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
11:55:33  <TrueBrain> one big roundabound :D
11:55:42  <planetmaker> that's how it's supposed to be
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11:56:01  <planetmaker> I guess we need infra sharing with proper credit distribution among companies
11:56:22  <TrueBrain> the oilrig gave me another idea for that, but it might push it a bit
11:56:28  <TrueBrain> a structure called 'storage' or what ever
11:56:34  <TrueBrain> in which you can store stuff, and sell it to others :P
11:56:45  <TrueBrain> but then we are no longer a TRNASPORT game, but in the business of buying and selling :P
11:58:17  <appe> gpl v2 seems to allow me what i need.
11:59:53  <appe> to be.. allowed.
12:05:22  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: it's called "station" ;-)
12:06:10  <TrueBrain> but then you cannot control what goes there and what not :P Well, I guess that is the price to pay :P
12:06:17  <TrueBrain> ugh .. stop talking; first I want to finish NoGo :P :P
12:06:41  <planetmaker> haha :-)
12:07:02  <planetmaker> and I usually control what I deliver to a station quite well ;-)
12:07:22  <TrueBrain> I was more thinking about how to share with more than one company tbh :)
12:07:59  <TrueBrain> hihi, newgrf callback: how much goods which company gets :D
12:08:03  <TrueBrain> or should that be in NoGo? :P :P
12:18:50  <planetmaker> IMHO NewGRFs should not access that
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12:26:27  <dihedral> sounds like you guys had fun ^^
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12:45:01  <andythenorth>
12:47:48  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I was not being serious :D
12:50:14  <planetmaker> "The right API lets me integrate your product with a USB-controlled toy missile launcher. " <-- clearly one of the important sentences, andythenorth ;-)
12:50:37  <planetmaker> openttd with a missile launcher api :-P
12:51:26  <TrueBrain> sounds the right way to go
12:51:53  <andythenorth> devops
12:51:58  <andythenorth> biab
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13:47:28  <michi_cc> peter1138: Try if you can still break
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13:51:28  <peter1138> ok
13:53:56  <Rubidium> anonvocis: I don't think OpenTTD is very well suited for UML diagrams. That's mostly focussed on classes and that's not something that's done everywhere
13:55:39  <peter1138> michi_cc, C:/MinGW/msys/1.0/home/Peter/ottd/trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:3547:56: error: 'bool TrainCheckIfLineEnds(Train*, bool)' was declared 'ex
13:55:42  <peter1138> tern' and later 'static'
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13:58:08  <michi_cc> Bah. If you reload the patch file the error should be magically gone :)
13:58:34  <peter1138> :)
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13:59:18  <TrueBrain> well, he has to reapply it too ;)
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14:01:24  <michi_cc> There's one very specific situation where even the updated patch will still generate a train length warning (which will not lead to a crash even if it says so and can be fixed by a depot visit), but you really need to design your save to trigger that.
14:01:38  <peter1138> nope, it still happens
14:01:53  <michi_cc> Savegame?
14:02:02  <peter1138> i'm not exactly "designing" anything
14:02:22  <peter1138> new game with dbsetxl, build a BR 01, send it out on the track. save. load. get warning...
14:02:37  <michi_cc> Don't save :)
14:02:42  <peter1138> i see
14:02:45  <michi_cc> Or bump the savegame version :)
14:04:09  <peter1138> yeah, that's better
14:04:10  <michi_cc> I didn't do that in the patch because I wanted to load test games with and without the patch, but the final commit would of course include the savegame bump.
14:04:20  <peter1138> d'oh
14:05:00  <peter1138> oh, if you have bounding boxes in, they're not removed properly when the train moves
14:05:31  <michi_cc> They weren't always removed properly before either.
14:05:36  <appe> what a waste
14:05:36  <peter1138> k
14:05:37  <appe> bah.
14:05:59  <peter1138> i guess it's because the bb extends beyond the sprite
14:06:06  <appe> building the most elaborate network in pause, dont save, unpause, everything dies.
14:06:29  <Belugas> hello
14:08:33  <michi_cc> The one specific known breakage is when you have a train with a very short front vehicle that is positioned exactly so that the front vehicle is logically just still on a tile (even if the graphics will be almost completely on the new tile) and the center of the last vehicle has just enter a tile. The remove the tracks before and after the train. This is something not fixable because there's just no space for proper vehicle spacing.
14:08:47  <michi_cc> But really, preparing failing save for that is *hard* :)
14:09:04  <michi_cc> It
14:09:33  <michi_cc> 's not breaking OpenTTD though, you'd just need to rebuild the tracks and send the vehicle to the depot to fix it up.
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14:41:37  <PuerScyphu> Create your own unique T-SHIRT.In our website you can upload your image and create your own design and order the product you made
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14:43:44  <planetmaker> @ban *!*@*
14:44:26  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*@*] by planetmaker
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14:55:17  <andythenorth> if it's not an insanely stupid question, how doe IS work?
14:56:09  <Xaroth> the name sais it all
14:56:19  <Eddi|zuHause> you have to enable some settings to allow other company's vehicle to use your rails
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14:59:23  <XeryusTC> Xaroth: do you reset the map every day?
15:00:02  <Xaroth> XeryusTC: it -was- set at 2050, but somebody was on all night
15:00:05  <Xaroth> so it reached 2k50
15:00:06  <Xaroth> and reset
15:00:13  <andythenorth> so other players' rail routes can connect to mine with IS?
15:00:16  <Xaroth> .. i disabled reset now, and only reset when updates are made
15:00:26  <andythenorth> so there's a tile with track owned by two players?
15:00:26  <XeryusTC> oh, that makes sense xD
15:00:39  <XeryusTC> well, at least we can do let's play #2 tonight then
15:00:43  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no
15:00:55  <XeryusTC> and hopefully recording software will not go fubar then ;)
15:01:06  <Xaroth> #2 is down, but I can start it up whenever people feel like it :)
15:01:09  <Xaroth> just gimme a hollar
15:01:20  * Xaroth is currently working on a more challenging Goal script.
15:01:25  <XeryusTC> i meant #2 as we tried to do a let's play yesterday ;)
15:01:33  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: look at it like roads, the road vehicles can use other company's roads by just connecting to it
15:01:34  <Xaroth> ah
15:01:54  <andythenorth> but I can't bulldoze competitors roads...
15:01:58  <XeryusTC> also, don't use the word hollar, it makes you sound like a rednekc ;)
15:02:14  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you can't bulldoze competitors rails either
15:02:16  <Xaroth> har
15:02:35  <Xaroth> I'm too dutch to be a redneck
15:03:49  <XeryusTC> there are quite a few morons in the dutchlands ;)
15:03:58  <Xaroth> that, is true.
15:04:16  <Xaroth> like people who drive in the fog with amost 0 visibility without their lights on
15:06:34  <planetmaker> andythenorth: just because I share a meal with you doesn't mean that you can tear down my kitchen ;-)
15:07:22  <V453000> :D nice example
15:10:32  <XeryusTC> Xaroth: is servicing off this time btw?
15:13:01  <Xaroth> it should already be
15:13:12  <Xaroth> if not, we can always remind tb that he too has rcon :P
15:23:47  <Xaroth> ok, who's good at squirrel... is there something like pythons 'in' statement?
15:23:59  <Xaroth> as in, if <x> in <iteratable>
15:25:23  <XeryusTC> but tb is a lazy slacker :(
15:26:19  <Xaroth> oh, and i'm not sure if andythenorth or planetmaker asked this, but according to what I read, higest rating counts towards growth atm :P
15:26:37  <Xaroth> but that, obviously, is determined by the script, so is changable
15:26:46  * andythenorth was trying to figure out what the gaping holes are in IS that make it unworkable
15:26:59  <Xaroth> andythenorth: well either you or pm asked that ingame last night.
15:27:16  <planetmaker> might be. valuable info :-)
15:27:39  <planetmaker> andythenorth: it's mostly the edge cases of failed "relationships":
15:27:48  <Eddi|zuHause> XeryusTC: while you are here, something has come up with the MTSS "license" here: --- basically it prevents anyone from picking up the project
15:27:49  <planetmaker> what do you do with your vehicles on now "enemy" tracks
15:28:00  <planetmaker> if your competitor traps them in an eternal circle
15:28:06  <andythenorth> you lose :P
15:28:06  <planetmaker> and similar
15:28:09  <planetmaker> exactly
15:28:17  <andythenorth> strong fences make good neighbours
15:28:18  <andythenorth> etc.
15:28:19  <andythenorth> :P
15:28:48  <XeryusTC> Eddi|zuHause: actually, it allows someone to pick it up if i say it is ok ;)
15:28:54  <andythenorth> in the game we were playing last night, I quite wanted shared stations
15:29:03  <andythenorth> so that cargo could be transferred between competitors
15:29:17  <planetmaker> you're not the only one
15:29:19  <Eddi|zuHause> XeryusTC: in debian-speak, this fails the desert island test
15:29:47  <planetmaker> XeryusTC: and you can't give that anymore, if you drop dead tomorrow
15:29:52  <planetmaker> then it's lost for eterenity
15:30:11  <planetmaker> the "if I say.." is the crucial point.
15:30:12  <XeryusTC> well, you'd just have to wait a couple of years then ;)
15:30:19  <planetmaker> Good licenses require no "...if I say..."
15:30:40  <planetmaker> the ...if I say... is as good as none
15:30:53  <planetmaker> But I actually am convinced that Red*Star will release his sprites ;-)
15:31:03  <planetmaker> Then it doesn't matter what happens with your code :-P
15:31:17  <XeryusTC> well, you can use his sprites as long as you credit him IIRC
15:31:48  <Eddi|zuHause> sure, but it's easier to pick up a project with existing code instead of starting from scratch
15:32:21  <planetmaker> quite
15:32:48  <planetmaker> given the buggyness of the code and the unwillingness to continue it, I don't really understand your stance, XeryusTC
15:32:50  <Eddi|zuHause> station coders don't exactly grow on trees
15:33:19  <Xaroth> aww
15:33:24  * Xaroth chops down his station coder tree
15:33:36  <planetmaker> noooo! :`-(
15:33:58  <planetmaker> You killed it before it could grow fruit... :-P
15:34:11  <XeryusTC> question is then: is any of you willing to pick up where i have left?
15:34:13  <peter1138> is there some irony to a LICENSE file that says it's "without a license" ?
15:34:28  <planetmaker> XeryusTC: that's not the question
15:34:54  <planetmaker> the question is "how many might be deterred to even look or try"
15:35:06  <planetmaker> just for... some vanity issue
15:36:44  <planetmaker> same what I said yesterday: one picks up whatever one finds interesting at that point and toys around. Maybe something comes from it, maybe not
15:37:04  <planetmaker> But I certainly won't even consider toying with something when I would first need to ask
15:37:12  <XeryusTC> tbh i cba atm to change the license :P
15:38:09  <planetmaker> how "convenient"
15:38:25  <planetmaker> you know where OpenTTD would be with this attitude?
15:38:50  <XeryusTC> you sound like my parents :O
15:39:51  <Terkhen> good afternoon
15:39:56  <planetmaker> no, I find it very disappointing and it would have taken you less time to change it than to lament around this thing here.
15:39:59  <planetmaker> hello Terkhen
15:40:31  <planetmaker> it's a matter of attitude. And I find yours highly disappointing in this matter
15:41:04  <Xaroth> criticizing somebody over his or her choices is hardly going to get you what you want, planetmaker...
15:41:07  <planetmaker> something I was very surprised about last time. And I find  it the more surprising as you insist on it
15:41:37  <planetmaker> Xaroth: then I'm afraid I've to remove the project from the Devzone. It violates the TOS
15:41:52  <Xaroth> planetmaker: or, you can just ask him nicely...
15:42:13  <planetmaker> I did that... multiple times
15:42:25  * Xaroth shrugs
15:42:34  <XeryusTC> you DO sound like my parent...
15:42:59  <XeryusTC> also, if you remove the project then it is counter productive against the thing that you are trying to achieve
15:43:18  <planetmaker> Not really
15:43:44  <XeryusTC> dont you want it so that anyone can pick up the code and continue where i have left it?
15:43:48  <planetmaker> It's a matter of how far tolerance has to accept intollerance
15:43:59  <planetmaker> to use a somewhat not-matching parabole
15:44:00  <XeryusTC> and if it gets removed from the internets then that is not possible at all
15:44:23  <planetmaker> XeryusTC: wouldn't matter as it wouldn't change a thing
15:44:26  <planetmaker> as things are
15:45:24  <XeryusTC> well, currently you can send me an email and i would be glad to say that someone can pick up where i left it
15:45:54  <planetmaker> then you should state that as license. And not bick around
15:46:01  <planetmaker> which would be cc-by
15:46:31  <XeryusTC> i could, but i dont feel like doing it at all now
15:46:37  <planetmaker> of course
15:47:05  <planetmaker> which is a 5-year-old attitude. Might make sense to sound like parents then
15:49:19  <XeryusTC> *sigh*
15:49:36  <Xaroth> hrnf, easiest way to find the town closest to a TileIndex in sq...
15:51:44  <Eddi|zuHause> valuate the town list by distance, and take the minimum?
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16:01:08  <Xaroth> hah
16:01:15  <Xaroth> crude form of town claiming worketh :o
16:07:08  <Yexo> Xaroth: AITown.GetClosestTown(TileIndex)
16:07:17  <Yexo> or I guess GoalTown if you're writing a goal script
16:07:39  <Xaroth> don't see that one in the 1.1.3 docs
16:07:46  <Xaroth> but that wouldn't help either way, as I want to filter out cities
16:07:51  <Xaroth> but i got it working
16:08:03  <Xaroth> thanks anyhow :)
16:08:03  <Yexo> wait, AITile.GetCLosestTown
16:08:36  <Xaroth> ooh, that one I do see
16:08:39  <Xaroth> must remember it :o
16:09:52  <andythenorth> quak
16:10:23  <frosch123> moin
16:11:12  <Celestar> holy idiots. Someone tell the stupid admin crew that you cannot move an application from a server A to a server B without thinking.
16:11:27  <Celestar> especially if you overlook the minor detail that A is PA-RISC and B is IA-64
16:11:56  <andythenorth> would be nice if you could move from server A to server B though...
16:12:04  <Celestar> well
16:12:07  <Xaroth> ok, it works, only slightly buggy o_O
16:12:13  <Celestar> the stuff they moved it ONLY perl scripts.
16:12:36  <Celestar> but some numbnut managed to copy /usr/bin/perl from one server to the other O_o
16:17:13  <SpComb> just set up x86 virtual machines on both servers \o/
16:18:20  <__ln__> or implement perl in java, because java runs on all platforms
16:18:35  <blathijs> Celestar: Sounds like these people can't achieve anything without thinking
16:18:41  <blathijs> nor with thinking, though
16:19:15  <dihedral> :-P
16:19:26  <Celestar> blathijs: some people should flip burgers...
16:19:55  <dihedral> people like my boss :-P
16:20:06  <michi_cc> Celestar: You really want to eat a burger handled by such a person? :p
16:21:26  <Eddi|zuHause> <dihedral> people like my boss :-P <-- is that one of those times where you tell us "i need a new job"?
16:21:40  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, nope
16:21:56  <dihedral> i am happy with my job
16:21:58  <blathijs> He just needs a new boss ;-)
16:22:05  <dihedral> ... just not always happy with my boss :-D
16:22:33  <dihedral> but actually, i just need to tell my boss what i dislike
16:26:23  <Belugas> meet the new boss,
16:26:27  <Belugas> same as the old boss
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16:27:42  * andythenorth is the boss
16:27:50  <andythenorth> when you want to stick it to the man, that's me that it is
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16:32:54  <dihedral> the more my boss dives into sales and out of the techi parts, the more joy i have ;-)
16:34:45  <andythenorth> dihedral:
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16:40:56  <Celestar> michi_cc: good point.
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17:22:20  <appe>
17:22:27  <appe> leave your keys at the door please.
17:25:09  <planetmaker> hehe
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18:04:48  <Swissfan91> has anyone got ANY idea how to draw picnic table in OTTD? I just cannot do it.
18:04:55  *** SystemParadox [] has joined #openttd
18:07:50  <Swissfan91> don't all shout at once :)
18:08:05  <andythenorth> Swissfan91: it's too small, don't do it
18:08:08  <andythenorth> is the answer
18:08:59  <Swissfan91> really? I have a 2x1 restaurant I have drawn, with almost an entire tile decking where people would eat/drink IRL. It looks kinda silly completely empty.
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18:31:27  <Wolf01> hello
18:31:52  <__ln__> howdoyoudo
18:32:11  <TrueBrain> and how do you do your wife
18:32:27  <TrueBrain> (dutch joke)
18:33:16  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
18:33:29  <Wolf01> __ln__: not so bad; TrueBrain: too bad I don't have either a girlfriend :P
18:43:28  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23289 /trunk/src/lang/ (german.txt polish.txt):
18:43:28  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:43:28  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: german - 12 changes by NG
18:43:28  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: polish - 19 changes by icecrasher, wojteks86
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18:59:01  * appe makes noise version of the ottd theme.
19:13:21  <Markk> appe: You always make noise, you're aware of that, eh?
19:13:22  <Markk> :D
19:14:11  <Zuu> Hmm, I've spent a lot of time writing AIs and batteling OpenTTD features and NewGRFs, but when faced with NoGo I start to come up with all wierd ideas :-)
19:15:16  <Terkhen> such as? :)
19:15:57  <Zuu> Some kind of networking among towns. Eg "twin cities" where delivering cargo to a town would grow its twin instead of that town. :-)
19:16:29  <Zuu> Or doing so that town grow rate depends on the size/delivery to nearby towns.
19:16:37  <Terkhen> :)
19:17:35  <planetmaker> Zuu: join ;-)
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19:18:05  <z-MaTRiX> hi :)
19:18:56  <Zuu> planetmaker: tweaked goal script? :-)
19:19:14  <planetmaker> not quite.
19:19:27  <planetmaker> I'd be willing to use a tweaked one, though :-)
19:19:33  <planetmaker> But I didn't get around to that yet
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19:28:33  <Zuu> I don't have anything coded yet
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19:29:30  <__ln__> about 1.7k commits until the r25k party
19:30:23  <Zuu> Is that a way saying that I shouldn't make a nogo script but instead commit OpenTTD patches for it ;-)
19:31:03  <__ln__> dunno, it was only a statement :)
19:31:38  <z-MaTRiX> does your linux kernel support HRT ?
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19:44:19  <andythenorth> hola
19:45:00  <Swissfan91> buenos tardes
19:45:26  <__ln__> *buenas
19:45:38  <Swissfan91> whatever :P
19:46:00  <Swissfan91> how is everyone tonight?
19:46:04  <andythenorth> has anyone made a simple railtypes grf for YAIM yet?
19:46:11  <andythenorth> just one extra set of tracks - cheaper, low speed
19:46:20  <andythenorth> leave the normal rails / elrails etc in place
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19:52:52  <frosch123> andythenorth: i have the solutions for groups!
19:53:18  <frosch123> <- you can group them with windows xp
19:54:01  <appe> Markk: -.-
19:57:03  <planetmaker> ha, lol :-)
19:58:10  <z-MaTRiX> nah
20:04:27  <Zuu> Has anyone figured out how to open the NoGo debug window?
20:05:02  <z-MaTRiX> No
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20:05:44  <Terkhen> does it have one?
20:05:54  <Terkhen> IIRC it currently has no GUI
20:05:56  <Zuu> I though I saw a commit message about that.
20:06:38  <frosch123> afaik it's just a tab in the ai debug gui
20:07:10  <Zuu> Oh, yes you are right
20:07:13  <Zuu> Thanks
20:08:08  *** mahmoud [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:30:34  <andythenorth> anyone playing MP NoGo?
20:36:45  * XeryusTC points andythenorth to
20:37:05  * andythenorth is too busy being angry
20:37:10  <andythenorth> to have fun
20:41:58  <Swissfan91> calm down andy :)
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20:48:33  <Xaroth> andythenorth: my servers are free to play, obviously
20:48:42  <Xaroth> but getting people on it might be a bit more tricky
20:49:35  <michi_cc> Scary commit coming in. Very scary commit :)
20:49:37  *** Swissfan91 [] has quit []
20:49:43  <TrueBrain> hihi @ michi_cc :D
20:49:52  <TrueBrain> by the amount of feedback you asked, it should be fine, not? :)
20:50:01  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23290 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs):
20:50:01  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2379,FS#3569]: Change the centre of train vehicles to depend on the
20:50:01  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: vehicle length instead of being fixed at 4/8th of the original vehicle length to
20:50:01  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: make sure shortened vehicles don't block tiles they shouldn't block.
20:50:14  <TrueBrain> \o/
20:50:27  <Xaroth> tempted to upload my custom GoalScript to nogo1
20:50:32  <michi_cc> TrueBrain: It should. But you know, that commit is like open heart surgery :)
20:50:55  <TrueBrain> :D:D
20:51:09  <michi_cc> Don't look at the savegame conversion code :p
20:51:18  <Xaroth> don't tempt me
20:52:18  <TrueBrain> michi_cc: no lack of comments :P
20:54:57  * andythenorth wonders if we could change crash reports
20:55:10  <andythenorth> if you change newgrfs in game, the crash report simply reads "we told you so"
20:56:53  <peter1138> heh
20:57:42  <andythenorth> also if you change newgrfs, any 'undefined string' is swapped for 'we told you so'
20:58:45  <andythenorth> instead of the red ? sprites (which incidentally a major performance suck), we create a sprite for 'we told you so'
20:59:03  <andythenorth> instead of showing the coal mine for broken industries, we show 'we told you so'
20:59:30  <andythenorth> if you have trains on a station tile that now has no track bits, instead of a nice message, we say 'we told you so'
20:59:45  <andythenorth> instead of a message about disconnecting articulated consists, we simply say 'we told you so'
21:00:17  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you should change your 16/8 template now. 4/8 + 8/8 + 4/8 instead of 4/8 + 4/8 + 8/8
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21:10:23  <peter1138> playing dbsetxl is weird
21:10:29  <peter1138> the steamers don't make noises :p
21:11:02  <Belugas> what???  mister mb-reality forgot that????
21:11:09  <peter1138> well
21:11:18  <peter1138> running sounds didn't exist back then
21:11:37  <frosch123> Belugas: dbset might be older than your son :p
21:11:59  <Belugas> ho...
21:12:08  <Belugas> pretty good excuse indeed...
21:12:24  <Belugas> my son is getting 8 next month
21:12:30  <peter1138> not quite that old
21:12:35  <peter1138> 2005
21:12:52  <Belugas> missed by two years...
21:13:00  <peter1138> if only mb would make a new one...
21:13:13  <Belugas> there is one... the vapor ware one!
21:13:44  <frosch123> you know that it was announced for 11-11-11, but was postponed due to the recent cargoclass discussion and autorefit?
21:13:46  <andythenorth> to be fair to mb, he doesn't always aim for reality
21:13:52  <andythenorth> he aims for beauty :)
21:18:04  <michi_cc> peter1138: We need your cargo include/exclude property so we can finally close that cargo class discussion (feel free to argue with DaleStan about the property number :)
21:19:31  <frosch123> just use the next free ones
21:20:11  <michi_cc> And for Eddi's proposal at I vote second option for (a) and (b), yes for (d) and undecided/remove for (c). And I'm in favour to include most of the stuff from in the specs.
21:20:57  <peter1138> cets still works, woo
21:21:37  <michi_cc> peter1138: I even made an info post in the NewGRF technical forum, quite from there: "not be a game-breaker but might lead to minor visual differences"
21:21:42  <michi_cc> :)
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21:22:37  <andythenorth> who moderates the openttd forum? :P
21:22:43  <peter1138> Personenzugwagen (Abteilwagen, beschleunigt, 4-achsig)  Value: #5
21:22:48  <peter1138> what a description...
21:22:52  <frosch123> michi_cc: r2390, soo long ago? :p
21:22:55  <peter1138> why is my keyboard layout wrong...
21:23:23  <michi_cc> frosch123: Where? :p
21:24:10  <peter1138> anyway
21:24:17  <peter1138> my patch for ctt stuff is publishd
21:24:19  <peter1138> +e
21:24:28  <peter1138> feel free to finish it off :p
21:26:25  <andythenorth> meh
21:26:54  <andythenorth> apparently I am 'very rude for asking for this important discussion to be locked'
21:28:37  <peter1138> oh?
21:28:42  <andythenorth> pa
21:28:45  <andythenorth> h
21:28:48  <peter1138> pa?
21:28:49  <peter1138> h?
21:29:15  <peter1138> though i tend to agree :p
21:29:33  <andythenorth> pah :P
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21:33:28  <Zuu> Hmm, my goal script is more wierd than useful :-)
21:33:32  * andythenorth thinks darketernal is a troll
21:33:59  <Zuu> Takes a while to init and gives different town vastly different goals :-)
21:34:47  <__ln__> *weird
21:35:00  <Zuu> But perhaps I should upload it still to become one of the first NoGo authors as well as AI authors :-p
21:35:40  <z-MaTRiX> who has linux?
21:36:23  <Terkhen> computer guys usually
21:36:33  <z-MaTRiX> would you check this for me? grep -Ei 'now at.*|\.resolution:.*|event_handler:.*' /proc/timer_list | sort -u | tr "\n" ","
21:37:08  <z-MaTRiX> i'm willing to use the HRT don't know what is the current support
21:39:02  <peter1138> you mean the HPET?
21:39:19  <Xaroth> Zuu: yes, it might need a bit optimization here and there
21:39:23  <peter1138> generally you should let the system use the HPET
21:39:31  <Xaroth> and updating 500+ towns is a BIT much :P
21:39:56  <Xaroth> btw, i updated NoGo #1 with a new goalscript
21:40:34  <z-MaTRiX>  event_handler:  hrtimer_interrupt
21:40:34  <z-MaTRiX>  event_handler:  tick_handle_oneshot_broadcast
21:40:34  <z-MaTRiX> now at 2795059973518578 nsecs
21:40:34  <z-MaTRiX>   .resolution: 1 nsecs
21:40:38  <peter1138> or you're talking about something different :)
21:40:44  <z-MaTRiX> i meant high resolution timer
21:41:10  <z-MaTRiX> that works on lower resolution without a realtime kernel
21:42:36  <peter1138> z-MaTRiX, i guess i'm missing context. what are you doing? :p
21:43:17  <z-MaTRiX> was grepping out some information from "/proc/timer_list" if you mean that
21:43:37  <peter1138> o_O
21:45:03  <z-MaTRiX> but if you mean what im coding using this, i am making a benchmark fraimwork for testing FPS, and rendering time, and was wondering if others can use it too
21:45:46  <z-MaTRiX> but i'll surely know after i put it on web
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21:51:23  * andythenorth avoids trolling forum thread :P
21:51:31  <andythenorth> I should get a cookie every time that happens
21:53:15  <z-MaTRiX> :)
21:53:19  <andythenorth> I'll just have to live with the idea that a kitten didn't die
21:53:26  <andythenorth> 'doing good by not killing kittens' :P
21:53:33  <Zuu> Oh, there will be a revolution - the AI forum has been moved :-p
21:55:48  <Terkhen> good night
21:56:08  <peter1138> Zuu, yeah, more people will actually notice it's there
21:56:59  <Zuu> The question is then, why AIs are below Graphics :-p
21:57:04  <andythenorth> ottd developers (mostly) go to bed early :P
21:57:07  * andythenorth -> bed
21:57:08  <andythenorth> good night
21:57:17  <Zuu> Now there will start a war betwen Graphics and AI folks..
21:57:27  <Zuu> :-)
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22:06:56  <appe> unt know, der glÃŒcken.
22:07:05  <Eddi|zuHause> whoaah... forum changes!
22:12:27  <SpComb> must reorganize!
22:13:27  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:16:53  <TrueBrain> oeh, AIs have their own forum now ... wow :D
22:17:12  <Elukka> huh. someone said that YACD works fine for passengers and it's just industries it has trouble with
22:17:27  <Elukka> now if only it were possible to turn it off for FIRS industries...
22:17:32  <z-MaTRiX> go bed? with girls?
22:18:10  <z-MaTRiX> hah andy left
22:20:23  <appe> i tried to make a fun cover of the ottd track, i got bored and made this instead:
22:20:48  <appe> not related to ttd in any way, that is.
22:20:49  <appe> :<
22:23:09  <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you should change your 16/8 template now. 4/8 + 8/8 + 4/8 instead of 4/8 + 4/8 + 8/8 <-- we're currently at 4/8+4/8+4/8+4/8
22:27:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i'll need to review the whole movement pattern now :)
22:27:38  <Eddi|zuHause> and the sprite slicing, because now the glitches are more apparent
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22:38:11  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23291 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Feature: [NewGRF] Properties to always include/exclude cargo types from the refit mask. (peter1138)
22:58:48  <z-MaTRiX> hey Eddi|zuHause
22:59:00  <z-MaTRiX> what's your opinion of using HRT in linux ?
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22:59:29  <Eddi|zuHause> why would you expect i have an opinion about a random TLA?
22:59:47  <z-MaTRiX> its not random, its high resolution timer
22:59:50  <__ln__> wtf is HRT and why is it so important tonight?
23:00:01  <z-MaTRiX> grep -Ei 'now at|\.resolution:|event_handler:' /proc/timer_list | sort -bu | tr "\n" "|";echo
23:00:09  <z-MaTRiX>  event_handler:  hrtimer_interrupt| event_handler:  tick_handle_oneshot_broadcast|now at 2799987776972366 nsecs|  .resolution: 1 nsecs|
23:01:25  <z-MaTRiX> well i'm planning to use it in most of my programs
23:01:32  <z-MaTRiX> so not only tonight for me
23:01:42  <__ln__> why are you flooding that here over and over again?
23:01:58  <z-MaTRiX> Eddi|zuHause<< didn't see it
23:02:42  <__ln__> Eddi sees everything, he's equipped with a palantír.
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