Log for #openttd on 27th November 2011:
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00:00:01  <Wolf01> 'night
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00:18:38  <Eddi|zuHause> the AI debug window could do with automatic line breaks...
00:18:51  <Eddi|zuHause> or a horizontal scrollbar
00:19:22  <TrueBrain> hehe
00:19:27  <TrueBrain> or don't put too long of a text? :D
00:19:31  <TrueBrain> no, you are right, it needs love :)
00:22:08  <Eddi|zuHause> my set handling needs some love too
00:25:05  <Eddi|zuHause> dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer
00:27:11  <Eddi|zuHause> man... if i remove the debug output, the script is totally fast suddenly :p
00:29:53  <Eddi|zuHause> so... script now runs without crashing
00:30:01  <Eddi|zuHause> of course, the output is all wrong...
00:30:45  <TrueBrain> lol :D
00:32:38  <Eddi|zuHause> player can't click on GS-signs
00:33:26  <TrueBrain> nope
00:33:32  <TrueBrain> they are also transparent
00:33:44  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, they look like town names
00:33:53  <TrueBrain> its pretty :D
00:34:01  <TrueBrain> but I think I also allow GS to make signs under OWNER_NONE
00:34:06  <TrueBrain> which players can click (and modify)
00:34:47  <Eddi|zuHause> random thought: if i place a sign with a town name, i could associate a scrollto-event to clicking that
00:35:15  <TrueBrain> sorry, I fail to parse what your random thought is ..
00:35:19  <TrueBrain> it is late and my english fails horribly :P
00:37:11  <Eddi|zuHause> assume i place a sign in town X: "Neighbour: Y"
00:37:44  <Eddi|zuHause> then the player clicks on "Y" and nothing happens. if i could associate an action with clicking a sign, i could make it "scrollto(Y)" or somesuch
00:39:00  <Eddi|zuHause> do we have multiline-signs yet?
00:39:32  <TrueBrain> I think that would be very hard to accomplish ;)
00:39:37  <frosch> signs are limits to like 20 chars, so what do you want with multiline? :p
00:39:38  <TrueBrain> and no, no multiline signs as far as I know :)
00:42:43  <Eddi|zuHause>,%201.%20Jan%201922_1.png <-- this looks a little not-right with so many signs :)
00:43:42  <Eddi|zuHause> (the values are still wrong, of course)
00:46:09  <TrueBrain> even double values
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01:00:50  <Eddi|zuHause> function cmp(x, y) { return (x>y)?1:(x==y)?0:-1; } <-- is there no default function for that?
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01:30:30  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: _cmp maybe
01:31:39  <glx> hmm no it's a meta function
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01:45:25  <Eddi|zuHause> the annoying part about "restart" is that it closes the debug window
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01:59:23  <Eddi|zuHause> soo... fixed the duplicates, now need to fix the algorithm :)
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02:10:48  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... there are sporadic leftover black lines in x4 zoom
02:12:45  <Eddi|zuHause> appears to be near foundations
02:13:02  <Eddi|zuHause> but not all foundations
02:22:13  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: on zoom out, the tiny town names have shadow, but the tiny signs don't
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02:56:02  * Eddi|zuHause WTFs on sanctuary...
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07:28:00  <Terkhen> good morning
08:15:00  <peter1138> 02:24 < Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: on zoom out, the tiny town names have shadow, but the tiny signs don't
08:15:08  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, they're manually drawn for towns
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08:31:55  <peter1138> sprite glitch in CETS! oh no
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08:43:39  <andythenorth> hmm
08:43:46  <andythenorth> how does one grf modify another?  GRM?
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09:35:16  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23341 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23338): memory leak when converting rails
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10:23:24  <Alberth> Can any arctic guru please explain why my town is not growing?,%201961-01-20.sav (current trunk)
10:25:16  <Rubidium> argh...
10:26:08  <Rubidium> did 23326 reintroduce the snowline getting fetched incorrectly?
10:29:21  <Rubidium> pfew... just a missing snowline NewGRF
10:29:40  <Rubidium> Alberth: for me it is saying: food required in the town/city window
10:29:51  <Alberth> yes, and I send it food
10:31:10  <Rubidium> maybe TrueBrain knows ;)
10:31:53  <Alberth> ok, thanks :)
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10:35:29  <Rubidium> looks like a bug in the code; it seems to be only able to grow when the town is funded
10:39:24  <Alberth> I don't have that much money :p
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10:47:10  <andythenorth> hrmm
10:48:19  <Rubidium> Alberth:
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10:48:56  <Rubidium> you simply didn't deliver enough food, the ~4 billion tonnes it currently requires
10:49:09  <Wolf01> hello
10:49:49  <andythenorth> hi Wolf01
10:50:18  * andythenorth wonders what the point of all this stuff in HEQS is
10:50:24  <andythenorth> most of it is never used
10:50:35  <andythenorth> maybe I just make one mining truck called 'latest model'
10:50:42  <andythenorth> and it upgrades over time using cb36
10:51:06  <andythenorth> :P
10:51:11  <andythenorth> hmm
10:51:13  <andythenorth> same for trainsets
10:51:24  <andythenorth> one vehicle called 'most awesome train avaialable'
10:51:28  <andythenorth> auto-refits to anything
10:53:59  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: such a vehicle can't be autoreplaced
10:54:10  <andythenorth> doesn't need to be :P
10:54:29  <andythenorth> cb36 upgrades it to 'most awesome' stats whenever it goes to depot
10:55:27  <andythenorth> one vehicle for each transport type
10:55:45  <andythenorth> also features: maximum speed; running cost £0; buy cost £0
10:55:49  <andythenorth> it will be awesome
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11:01:51  <TrueBrain> lol @ patch from Rubidium ... oops :)
11:11:59  <peter1138> andythenorth, sounds... erm... boring :p
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11:21:19  <TWerkhoven> sounds like your just as well changing the introduction date of everything to whenever the game starts
11:28:51  <andythenorth> TWerkhoven: this way, there's less buy menu clutter
11:29:07  <andythenorth> also, we need something that sets up routes for you
11:29:10  <andythenorth> like an AI
11:29:40  <andythenorth> then you won't have to play the game at all
11:30:19  * andythenorth bbl
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11:40:37  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23342 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23300): for arctic and desert towns you were required to deliver more than 4 billion units, instead of one or more units
11:42:10  <peter1138> when do towns grow anyway?
11:42:23  <TrueBrain> click on it; it will now tell you :D
11:42:25  <peter1138> mine all say "Town is NOT growing"
11:42:36  <TrueBrain> without stations, there is only a 1/12th chance it is growing
11:42:52  <TrueBrain> (every month!)
11:43:14  <peter1138> and with stations?
11:44:11  <TrueBrain> then it grows always
11:44:16  <TrueBrain> (just at different rates)
11:44:23  <TrueBrain> (and given you supply food / water)
11:44:39  <TrueBrain> from 1 to 5 stations, every time the growth is higher
11:44:57  <peter1138> oh, silly me
11:45:03  <peter1138> i thought i had updated to 23342
11:45:10  <peter1138> but i hadn't yet :p
11:50:27  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: what's the debug level to show gamescript debug in console?
11:51:11  <TrueBrain> ai=
11:51:25  <TrueBrain> then it depends on the way you send the debug :)
11:51:28  <TrueBrain> ai=9 will show all
11:51:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i call GSLog.Info
11:52:01  <TrueBrain> check the manual for which level that is
11:52:05  <TrueBrain> but ai=9 will work always
11:57:50  <Rubidium> does anyone know of a (good) reason why, when removing signals, dragging without CTRL removes signals at the defined interval and dragging with CTRL removals all signals (until the next switch)?
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12:06:24  <andythenorth> Terkhen: you once split the refit gui for cargos and subtypes
12:06:29  <andythenorth> but it never shipped...why?
12:06:48  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: ah, that explains why it was acting weird ...
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12:14:28  <Eddi|zuHause> it should rather remove all signals always
12:17:14  <fjb> Moin
12:17:53  <Alberth> moin
12:20:31  <peter1138> hysterical
12:20:43  <Eddi|zuHause> bye
12:20:49  <Alberth> bye
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12:31:45  <andythenorth> hmm
12:31:57  <andythenorth> TE for articulated trucks has to be done as lies
12:32:15  <andythenorth> as none of the trailer weight is counted towards TE
12:34:13  <Terkhen> andythenorth: there were some problems, check the patch thread
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12:36:29  <andythenorth> Terkhen: the issues mostly seemed to be that we had an argument about the patch on irc :P
12:36:35  <andythenorth> resulting in no decision :P
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12:41:52  <peter1138> what problems?
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12:43:00  <andythenorth> Terkhen: problems with split refit, or problems with TE?  I asked two questions :D
12:46:13  <peter1138> hmm
12:46:19  <peter1138> how many trailers are powered?
12:46:23  <Terkhen> I don't remember the issues :P
12:46:32  <andythenorth> for articulated RVs?  no trailers are powered
12:46:36  <peter1138> ok
12:46:45  <andythenorth> they can't be powered :)
12:46:46  <peter1138> if they're not powered then there's no tractive effort
12:47:24  <andythenorth> it's me that's telling the lies
12:47:42  <andythenorth> I fake the TE for lead vehicle to simulate weight transfer from rear vehicle
12:48:06  <andythenorth> this leads to insanely high TE values in buy menu for an unladen vehicle
12:48:17  <peter1138> can you fake the weight instead?
12:48:25  <andythenorth> for the lead part?
12:48:27  <andythenorth> hmm
12:48:28  <peter1138> yes
12:48:30  <andythenorth> interesting idea
12:48:54  * andythenorth is not sure how trailer weights work
12:48:55  <peter1138> add to front, remove from rear
12:49:12  <andythenorth> so articulated parts ignore vehicle weight, but use cargo weight
12:49:16  <andythenorth> which seems odd
12:49:26  <peter1138> do they? hmm
12:49:52  <andythenorth> prop 14 (weight 1/4 tons) should be zero for trailing parts
12:50:09  <andythenorth> and I *think* that cargo weight is used, but I haven't tested
12:50:26  <andythenorth> I didn't read src for this
12:50:56  <andythenorth> anyway, I could solve it by faking TE differently for loaded, unloaded, and buy menu
12:50:58  <andythenorth> etc
12:51:30  <andythenorth> although I doubt anyone will ever notice the lies
12:52:00  <peter1138> ,.......,......./* Vehicle weight is not added for articulated parts. */
12:52:04  <peter1138> hmm
12:52:05  <peter1138> wonder why
12:52:23  <andythenorth> it does make for some interesting fakery when creating rvs
12:52:42  <andythenorth> if it could be fixed, a grf version bump would be the right time to do it... :P
12:52:58  <peter1138> seems it would make sense
12:53:15  <peter1138> doesn't need to be a bump
12:54:07  <andythenorth> I am kind of relying on the current broken behaviour :P
12:54:46  <andythenorth> if it's changed, HEQS will have...issues
12:54:50  <andythenorth> although if I'd followed the spec it wouldn't :P
12:55:20  <andythenorth> lots of non-zero values for props on trailing vehicles that should be zero
12:55:54  <andythenorth> planning to fix that though anyway
12:56:26  <peter1138> post in the newgrf tech forum?
12:56:38  <peter1138> "why is it like this, and can we change it"
12:56:42  <peter1138> seems to cause problems
12:56:49  <peter1138> can i don't know what it solved
12:58:15  <peter1138> -can
12:58:42  <andythenorth> Terkhen probably knows
12:59:09  <andythenorth> but maybe doesn't remember :)
13:00:10  <peter1138> i imagine it was somethign for trains
13:00:20  <peter1138> which got left in for rvs
13:01:54  <andythenorth> maybe Terkhen left notes here:
13:05:25  <Terkhen> I'm sorry, I'm a bit busy and I can't follow the discussion right now
13:05:28  <andythenorth> it appears to be that only first part of articulated RV has power, TE, weight to be consistent with trains
13:05:29  <Terkhen> what is the issue?
13:05:46  <andythenorth> Terkhen: archeology on why articulated RVs ignore weight etc
13:05:50  <andythenorth> for trailing parts
13:07:01  <andythenorth> also for TTDP consistency it seems
13:15:56  <Terkhen> consistency
13:16:20  <Terkhen> articulated parts for trains don't have it either
13:16:31  <Terkhen> there is a post by frosch at the original patch thread about that IIRC
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13:30:23  <peter1138> yes
13:30:27  <peter1138> i think they should too :p
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13:44:32  <andythenorth> quak
13:44:36  <andythenorth> it really is uncanny
13:44:40  <frosch123> moin
13:44:41  <andythenorth> he arrives whenever mentioned
13:45:12  <frosch123> you mean, i arrive whenever i have just missed something :p
13:45:33  * andythenorth waves at logs
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13:59:41  <andythenorth> hmm
14:00:00  <frosch123> andythenorth: the wiki says that articulated parts have neither weight, nor power nor te
14:00:03  <andythenorth> yup
14:00:09  <frosch123> you need rv wagons for that
14:00:19  <andythenorth> or I continue faking it
14:00:23  <andythenorth> but fake it better ;)
14:00:31  <frosch123> articulated parts should stay consistent between rv and trains
14:00:50  <andythenorth> I don't mind.  I just don't fancy writing new code if it's going to be changed in ottd ;)
14:01:18  <andythenorth> to resolve the TE issue, I should probably put some cargo capacity on the lead vehicle
14:01:29  <andythenorth> and reduce the trailer
14:01:39  <andythenorth> it will look weird in the vehicle info window
14:02:02  <andythenorth> but better than faking TE
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14:03:14  <peter1138> could we give them weight/power/te?
14:03:32  <peter1138> either as a grfv8 thing, or with a vehicle prop
14:03:38  <peter1138> flag
14:04:22  <frosch123> sure you could
14:04:31  <peter1138> what problem does them not having weight/power/te solve? :)
14:04:38  <frosch123> but there is not much poiint in giving them power
14:04:54  <andythenorth> por quoi?
14:04:54  <frosch123> peter1138: purchase list for a start
14:05:37  <frosch123> anyway as long as te and power are first summed before doing the min, there is not much point in distributing power over several vehicles
14:06:12  <andythenorth> the workarounds are a little odd though
14:07:02  <frosch123> andythenorth: so you would prefer to set power and te like capacity in purchase list :p
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14:07:30  <andythenorth> meh
14:07:43  <andythenorth> everything I do seems to be an edge case anyway :P
14:08:04  <peter1138> :)
14:08:10  <andythenorth> for the trams, setting the capacity etc became bonkers
14:08:17  <peter1138> frosch123, the blitter fix causes other issues :(
14:08:25  <frosch123> :s
14:08:35  <andythenorth> I'm planning to extend 'refit to n vehicles' to more things in HEQS, so more bonkers
14:08:47  <peter1138> it's noticable on the autorail sprites when zoomed in
14:09:02  <peter1138> there's a black line at the 256th pixel
14:09:19  <peter1138> i had a fiddle but i can't seem to solve it :p
14:09:53  <frosch123> then change the transparency counter into a word?
14:10:41  <peter1138> what i don't get is why it works fine when its wider
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14:11:54  <frosch123> peter1138: i guess it only works for recolours sprites :p
14:12:12  <frosch123> the encoding stores 1 pixel with colour 0 between two transparent stretches
14:12:26  <frosch123> Blitter_8bppOptimized::Draw handles that only for BM_COLOUR_REMAP
14:12:36  <frosch123> while the other two just copy the 0
14:12:49  <peter1138> and the ship is recoloured
14:12:50  <peter1138> ok
14:13:46  <andythenorth> hmm
14:13:54  <andythenorth> why is my truck clipped in depot?
14:14:22  <andythenorth> >32px gets cropped?
14:17:38  * andythenorth considers playing a game
14:17:43  <peter1138> don't do it
14:18:08  <andythenorth> what are the downsides?
14:21:22  <Alberth> it wastes time, and you find bugs in the game
14:28:57  <andythenorth> ho
14:31:14  <peter1138> like industry smoke ;p
14:31:34  <andythenorth> yarp
14:31:47  <andythenorth> the other option is to write newgrf code
14:31:55  <andythenorth> then wonder why xyz isn't possible :P
14:37:01  <peter1138> gah, not making enough money :S
14:43:53  <frosch123> peter1138: <- any issues left?
14:48:58  <peter1138> by jove i think you've cracked it
14:49:40  <frosch123> by toutatis?
14:49:47  <peter1138> that works for me, in the two cases i'm looking at
14:49:51  <peter1138> dunno if there's any else
14:50:49  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23343 /trunk/src/blitter/8bpp_optimized.cpp: -Fix (r23332): Incorrect encoding of sprites with much transparency.
14:51:09  <TrueBrain> were those bugs always there btw?
14:51:20  <frosch123> yes
14:51:27  <TrueBrain> lol; funny that nobody ever noticed them? :)
14:51:31  <frosch123> there just were no sprites with more than 256 transparent pixels in a row
14:58:30  <peter1138> i so need yacd :S
14:58:43  <TrueBrain> we all do :P
15:07:49  <V453000> almost all :)
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15:10:22  * andythenorth needs yacd
15:10:33  * andythenorth needs to figure out why auto-refit doesn't work
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15:34:12  <andythenorth> hmmmh
15:34:19  <andythenorth> HEQS 1.5.0 is ready to go
15:34:23  <andythenorth> should I release it?
15:34:32  <andythenorth> I haven't tested it in a game...
15:35:36  <TrueBrain> test it first :D
15:35:53  <TrueBrain> else you will have a 1.5.1 soon ;)
15:36:01  <andythenorth> that's the usual pattern :P
15:36:06  <andythenorth> I don't really play the game though :P
15:46:58  <Eddi|zuHause> how do i capture stdout of an already running program?
15:47:18  <Eddi|zuHause> konsole is persistently refusing to my setting "unlimited" buffer
15:47:31  <Eddi|zuHause> +obey
15:49:32  <Eddi|zuHause> is "rm /proc/<...>/fd/1; ln file /proc/<...>/fd/1" a bad or a horrible idea?
15:50:14  <Eddi|zuHause> ln -s
15:50:40  <andythenorth> anyone want to play MP?  With new HEQS, starting 1870-ish?
15:50:48  <andythenorth> NoGo or otherwise
15:52:22  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... it refuses to do that
15:55:52  <Eddi|zuHause> seems the "common approach" is via gdb...
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16:40:04  <heffer> hey guys. i just got a bug report on the red hat bugzilla regarding ottd having ugly fonts when played in russian (i.e. kyrillic fonts)
16:40:17  <heffer> is this known and is there a workaround?
16:40:37  <Xaroth> I'd check the bugtracker for that
16:40:55  <Rubidium> heffer: I reckon that's the first font fontconfig returns
16:41:15  <Rubidium> so not much we can do about, except telling him to configure a better font
16:41:34  <heffer> Rubidium: probably. i'll look into that
16:41:39  <heffer> thanks for the pointer
16:43:34  <Rubidium> it might be that recent trunk is slightly better as it tries to use the fattest font it can find instead of the first
16:44:38  <Rubidium> r23279 to be precise
16:45:14  <heffer> okay i'll try running that
16:45:33  <Rubidium> it won't apply directly to trunk though
16:45:34  <Eddi|zuHause> $someone should look into implementing an ingame font picker...
16:46:24  <Eddi|zuHause> my town triangulation algorithm is now _almost_ correct :)
16:47:09  <Xaroth> thar, nogo2 running with a customized GameScript.
16:47:17  <Rubidium> although it amazes me that someone is having a problem with it just now
16:47:23  <heffer> but other than that OpenTTD is by far the coolest upstream project i've worked with so far as a packager
16:47:46  <heffer> kudos to the team for that :)
16:48:28  <Eddi|zuHause> "coolest" wrt functionality or community?
16:48:39  <heffer> community
16:49:27  <heffer> no other community asked me about my opinion from a packager's point of view before making decisions
16:49:40  <heffer> and no other community has such great support :)
16:50:16  <heffer> and: no other project pings me shortly before releasing security updates, so i can be prepared :)
16:52:00  * Rubidium is amazed by the ancientness of the font detection... almost 4 years old already
16:52:22  <heffer> i admit it's mostly Rubidium but also Ammler, planetmaker and you, Eddi|zuHause, who is very helpful :)
16:54:01  <Rubidium> well thanks ;)
16:54:21  <Rubidium> you're one of the more sane downstreams as well ;)
16:55:51  <heffer> yay :)
16:58:07  <Xaroth> thar, and nogo1 now as well \o/
17:09:17  <andythenorth> hmm
17:09:21  <heffer> okay trunk doesn't fix the problem so far, although the buttons look more spacious
17:09:24  * andythenorth tries to understand FIRS
17:11:33  <Eddi|zuHause> haha :)
17:11:43  <Rubidium> then no significantly better font has been given by fontconfig, although "better" is quite subjective; not a comparision that I would be able to implement in a few lines
17:12:43  * andythenorth fails to understand FIRS
17:13:09  <Eddi|zuHause> "wtf did they do to my program?!?" :p
17:13:27  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: Sanctuary?
17:13:33  <Rubidium> (the musical)
17:14:06  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: right, i wanted to force myself through that...
17:14:17  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but right now i meant andythenorth
17:14:44  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that's unfair ;)
17:17:50  <andythenorth> hmm
17:17:52  * andythenorth ponders
17:20:04  <andythenorth> maybe I need to write an industry set from scratch
17:31:34  <peter1138> lost interest in FIRS?
17:31:39  <heffer> seems that the cyrillic font problem was there before:
17:31:47  <andythenorth> peter1138: learning curve is too steep
17:32:05  <peter1138> playing it? hmm
17:32:10  <heffer> i'll just tell the guy to manually configure DejaVu, it looks a bit better (not that i'd be able to read it even then) :D
17:32:31  <andythenorth> developing it
17:34:03  <peter1138> arabic looks nice
17:34:08  <peter1138> can't read any of it of course
17:34:43  <peter1138> how many other games have arabic and hebrew translations?
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17:35:37  <Alberth> with proper right-to-left widgets :p
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17:40:01  <SpComb> how many players use it :p
17:41:34  <Alberth> left-to-right widgets are done in the same way, so all players of OpenTTD? :D
17:43:01  <peter1138> bah, docks on flat land :S
17:44:14  <Eddi|zuHause> urgently needed with rivers!
17:44:42  <peter1138> exactly
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17:47:44  <andythenorth> +1
17:48:02  <andythenorth> sprites would be forthcoming if needed...
17:48:28  <andythenorth> can't we just make rail stations available to ships? :P
17:49:34  <peter1138> does ttdpatch have flat docks?
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17:51:08  <frosch123> yes
17:51:26  <frosch123> but they block the canal
17:51:39  <frosch123> it might be nicer to have docks along the river, instead into it
17:51:54  <andythenorth> 1 tile dock
17:52:08  <andythenorth> use train stations to make it visually bigger
17:52:21  <andythenorth> no orientations needed
17:52:28  <andythenorth> multistop
17:52:42  <andythenorth> 4 stops, one per side
17:52:53  <andythenorth> stop only available if water that side
17:53:19  <peter1138> i think normal docks block the water anyway
17:53:37  <peter1138> but yes, docks alongside
17:53:41  <frosch123>
17:54:04  <frosch123> they can only be build if the direction is well defined
17:54:15  <frosch123> i.e. you cannot build them on corners as you select only one tile
17:54:44  <peter1138> 2004...
17:54:57  <Eddi|zuHause> an autorail-like placement could solve that
17:55:28  <frosch123> just select the orientation in the gui
17:55:35  <frosch123> like for all stuff
17:55:45  <peter1138> yes
17:55:50  <frosch123> or by subcoord on the tile
17:55:55  <Eddi|zuHause> possible
17:56:23  <Eddi|zuHause> but the original game always autoplaced docks
17:56:45  * andythenorth wonders if there's an nml tutorial
17:56:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, on the nml wiki
17:57:14  <andythenorth> found it
17:58:18  <andythenorth> I need to remove nfo from my brain
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18:00:55  <LordAro> evening
18:02:47  <peter1138> hi
18:02:57  <andythenorth> maybe I need to educate my text editor about nml
18:03:09  <andythenorth> what's a string?
18:03:28  <peter1138> oh, my long tram was autoreplaced into a short tram. pom te pom
18:03:35  <andythenorth> peter1138: sorry
18:03:39  <andythenorth> I tried to fix that :(
18:03:46  <andythenorth> but auto-replace is under-educated
18:04:18  <andythenorth> what will nml do if I put quote marks in?
18:04:35  <andythenorth> around strings?
18:04:39  * andythenorth experiments
18:06:03  <Alberth> evenink LordAro
18:06:09  *** LordAro [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
18:06:39  <Alberth> sorry for scaring you so much :)
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18:08:45  <peter1138> also i need tunnels with curves
18:08:54  <peter1138> Celestar!
18:09:15  <andythenorth> so nml strings have to be all on one line
18:09:28  * andythenorth wonders if a pre-processor can be provided
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18:13:18  <Alberth> does "abc"    "def"  work ?
18:14:33  <andythenorth> Alberth: where would the : go?
18:15:17  * andythenorth ponders an nml -> nfo dictionary
18:15:25  <andythenorth> so 'item' = action 0?
18:15:42  <Alberth> nowhere, I was wondering whether a sequence of strings gets silently concatenated to one large string
18:16:11  <Alberth> could be a nice manual (nml for nfo users)  :)
18:16:27  <andythenorth> so far I've tried about 5 times to learn nml
18:16:34  <andythenorth> I've failed every time :P
18:16:51  <andythenorth> if I keep failing, I lose the industry set :P
18:16:55  <Alberth> maybe you should ask questions to who that know
18:18:18  <Alberth> doing some small experiments could be helpful for you to understand how it works
18:18:20  <andythenorth> there's copious documentation :P
18:18:24  <andythenorth> it should be easy
18:18:49  <andythenorth> I'm trying BANDIT in nml
18:18:52  <Alberth> so the docs are wrong for you?
18:19:03  <Hirundo> andythenorth: you can use the '+' operator to concatenate strings
18:19:15  * andythenorth experiments
18:19:40  <andythenorth> hm
18:19:51  <andythenorth> is there anything I can do to tell nml to ignore newlines?
18:19:55  <andythenorth> in strings
18:20:23  <Hirundo> In lang/english.txt strings?
18:20:24  <Alberth> not much, but "abc" + \n "def" will work
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18:20:48  <peter1138> hmm, i guess i'll remove CETS
18:20:59  <peter1138> not really usable yet :)
18:21:09  <andythenorth> Hirundo: yes in that file
18:22:14  <Hirundo> In that file, 1 line = 1 string (like in OpenTTD's langfiles)
18:22:37  <Hirundo> Ofc, you can use preprocessor magic to change that
18:23:10  <Hirundo> Or perhaps NML could do some magic with backslashes at EOL
18:25:26  <Alberth> or do magic by deciding it is a continuation line if it starts with a space :p
18:27:20  <andythenorth>  so 'graphics' = action 3?
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18:28:34  <Hirundo> andythenorth: yes, more or less
18:29:03  <andythenorth> spriteset seems straightforward, that's realsprites + (templating)
18:29:26  <andythenorth> spritegroup is action 2
18:30:31  <Hirundo> A graphics block may also cause outputting of at least actions 1, 2, 6, 7, 9, D or 10 IIRC
18:31:16  <andythenorth> hmm
18:31:21  <andythenorth> nml has templates for RVs
18:31:37  <andythenorth> which drive side are they coded for?
18:32:46  <Hirundo> I don't know. Does it matter?
18:32:51  <peter1138> it shouldn't matter
18:33:59  <frosch123> it matters if the vehicle is narrower than the lane and you do not want them to drive in the middle of it
18:34:35  <andythenorth> which is the correct side?
18:34:53  <andythenorth> given a choice of left or right, and one has to be chosen...
18:35:53  <Alberth> all gurus are afk I am afraid :p
18:36:25  <andythenorth> it's more of an ottd question than nml question
18:41:31  <frosch123> just don't draw small. vehicles
18:41:34  <frosch123> trucks are not small
18:42:24  <andythenorth> danmack has been drawing the trucks :P
18:42:31  <andythenorth> he wants them smaller than the default trucks
18:43:01  <frosch123> then make them drive in the middle of the lane
18:43:09  <frosch123> truck drivers do not care about such stuff :p
18:43:20  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23344 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
18:43:20  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:43:20  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: croatian - 8 changes by VoyagerOne
18:43:20  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: korean - 16 changes by junho2813
18:43:20  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: polish - 36 changes by matma6, xaxa
18:43:21  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 83 changes by Tucalipe
18:43:21  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: romanian - 25 changes by kkmic
18:43:26  <andythenorth> why does the size of the graphic affect where the game draws it? :o
18:44:12  <frosch123> it draws the sprite so it fits for vehicles with the width of the default vehicles
18:44:29  <frosch123> if you make smaller ones, you have to decide where your vehicle is relative to the original one
18:44:44  <frosch123> either align the left side, the right side, or center your vehicle inside the original one
18:45:44  <andythenorth> hmm
18:46:18  <andythenorth> that makes complete sense, but it's not how trams work
18:46:27  <andythenorth> works for trucks
18:47:48  <andythenorth> hmm
18:47:57  <andythenorth> maybe I can solve it
18:48:30  <andythenorth> probably can solve it
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19:03:00  <planetmaker> evening
19:03:52  <andythenorth> hola
19:06:27  * andythenorth can't persuade nml to build
19:07:32  <planetmaker> you're missing the quoted png file
19:07:44  <planetmaker> not an NML error ;-)
19:08:08  <andythenorth> hmm
19:08:09  <planetmaker> ./Makefile
19:08:18  <planetmaker> ./graphics/cabover_truck_test.png
19:08:23  <planetmaker> ./src/bandit.pnml
19:08:26  <planetmaker> like that?
19:08:36  <planetmaker> that's what is assumed
19:09:15  <andythenorth> \o/
19:09:17  <andythenorth> thank
19:09:18  <andythenorth> s
19:09:23  <planetmaker> welcome
19:11:10  <Xaroth> ooh, getting busy on the nogo servers
19:12:38  * andythenorth has a vehicle in the game via nml
19:14:04  <peter1138> woo
19:14:10  <andythenorth> t
19:17:22  <andythenorth> the nml graphics templates here:
19:17:27  <andythenorth> are the offsets available?
19:17:34  <andythenorth> or do they need providing?
19:18:17  <planetmaker> you can / need to provide the same graphics offsets as always
19:18:25  <planetmaker> But maybe you can use foobar's template as there
19:19:16  <andythenorth> let's see
19:19:30  <peter1138> why does the purchase menu sprite have all the blue?
19:19:30  <planetmaker> they're all quoted below as code in the example
19:20:14  <andythenorth> is there some magic with the xpos ?
19:20:27  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23345 /trunk/src/lang/polish.txt: -Fix: gender where no gender can exist
19:20:31  <planetmaker> that'd only have an effect, if you used NOCROP there
19:20:47  <planetmaker> which the template doesn't
19:20:58  <planetmaker> probably just to allow you wider sprites
19:21:27  <andythenorth> hmm
19:21:35  <andythenorth> now I have a truck, and it has graphics
19:21:36  <andythenorth> bonus
19:22:14  <andythenorth> giving it some hp and speed might be useful
19:22:18  <andythenorth> 1mph is slow
19:24:12  <andythenorth> can weight actually be specified in decimals of a ton?
19:24:19  <andythenorth> it's going to get rounded...
19:24:45  <Rubidium> depends on the vehicle I guess
19:25:19  <Rubidium> e.g. for RVs it's in quarters of tons
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19:25:31  <Rubidium> though for trains it would get rounded
19:25:37  <planetmaker> andythenorth: you can specify whatever fraction suits you. But it'll be rounded to suit the nfo granularity
19:26:05  <planetmaker> you should make sure you know which ton you talk about ;-)
19:26:13  <planetmaker> (and which hp :P )
19:26:27  <planetmaker>
19:26:45  <Rubidium> <- that is ofcourse solved by solving FS#4847 ;)
19:27:11  <planetmaker> :-( I know
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19:57:26  <planetmaker> hm, seems people had fun all the weekend in the Wendland ;-)
19:58:07  <andythenorth> "switches before items"
19:58:09  * andythenorth learns
19:59:05  <planetmaker> 1-2-3-0 ;-)
19:59:11  <planetmaker> and item=0 and switch=2
19:59:21  <planetmaker> and spriteset=1
19:59:34  <planetmaker> and ... the graphics block is part of the item block
19:59:44  <planetmaker> which is 3
20:04:21  <andythenorth> I have one articulated truck running around
20:04:50  <planetmaker> :-)
20:05:09  <planetmaker> knowing you, it'll soon require newgrf v8 ;-)
20:05:22  <andythenorth> I am hoping to persuade DanMacK to draw trucks
20:11:11  <andythenorth> shame the refit gui isn't split...
20:15:20  <Terkhen> solve the forgotten issues with it :P
20:16:37  <andythenorth> ship it and see what happens?
20:16:38  <andythenorth> :P
20:16:46  <andythenorth> empirical
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20:25:37  * planetmaker -> bed. Good night
20:26:54  <peter1138> but but
20:29:18  <andythenorth> maybe he got up early :P
20:30:39  <TrueBrain> or maybe he is just drunk beyond believe? :)
20:30:56  <planetmaker> nah, kids wake up VERY early and keep you VERY busy ;-)
20:31:00  <planetmaker> I just need my sleep ;-)
20:31:18  <TrueBrain> :P
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20:31:23  <TrueBrain> sleep well old man :)
20:31:26  <andythenorth> planetmaker: kids :P
20:31:30  * andythenorth knows about them
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20:37:51  <peter1138> hm
20:38:12  <peter1138> so action 3, feature 5, id 4
20:38:16  <peter1138> flat docks...
20:39:31  <peter1138> except they look crap
20:40:12  <andythenorth> pic?
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20:46:58  <andythenorth> Terkhen: first we have to solve not remembering the issues :P
20:47:05  <andythenorth> I could look in my logs
20:47:08  <andythenorth> meh
20:55:59  <Terkhen> :)
20:59:17  <andythenorth> designing a truck set is hard
20:59:48  <peter1138> < that one, andy
21:02:26  <andythenorth> peter1138: do they have to reuse existing sprites from base set?
21:03:52  <peter1138> no, the only 4 sprites are specified in the ... er... spec
21:04:13  <peter1138> -the+but
21:06:15  <andythenorth> spec change :P
21:06:48  <andythenorth> flat docks shouldn't encroach on the water, but be alongside it
21:07:34  <peter1138> why?
21:08:10  <andythenorth> don't want to demolish a river every time a dock is needed
21:08:24  <andythenorth> aslo....reality? :P
21:08:53  <peter1138> eek, dirty words
21:09:05  <andythenorth> no reality here!  no!
21:09:48  <__ln__> did someone just say the r-word?!
21:09:55  <SpComb> there is no reality
21:10:21  <Terkhen> good night
21:10:29  <andythenorth> bye Terkhen
21:11:53  <andythenorth> hmm
21:12:15  <andythenorth> can I make a truck set that just *isn't* compatible with drive in stops?
21:12:21  <andythenorth> or do I have to spam the buy menu?
21:12:31  <andythenorth> - truck 'foo
21:12:35  <peter1138> it has a scroll bar ;p
21:12:36  <andythenorth> - truck 'foo' with trailer(s)
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21:26:48  * andythenorth wonders how many truck classes (sizes) are needed
21:26:58  <andythenorth> most people will just choose 'biggest', right?
21:28:06  <SpComb> even biggest
21:28:28  <z-MaTRiX> gwkki
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22:03:20  <__ln__> are purple trees a normal phenomenon on the soviet sector?
22:03:44  <andythenorth> in soviet russia, tree purples you
22:04:29  * andythenorth goes to bed
22:04:37  <andythenorth> in soviet russia, bed goes to andythenorth
22:04:40  <andythenorth> good night
22:04:41  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
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22:28:40  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:04:10  <Eddi|zuHause>  <planetmaker> 1-2-3-0 ;-) <-- i have 0-1-2-3
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23:31:05  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- i think i have most of the quirks worked out. what's still missing is special handling for "outer" edges, so really remote cities won't get marked as neighbours
23:31:33  <Eddi|zuHause> <- tiny test script
23:35:58  <Xaroth> wow, nice work
23:38:20  <Eddi|zuHause> now keep those bug reports coming :)
23:39:15  <Eddi|zuHause> (note: a 2048^2 map with many towns is probably too large for this unoptimized code)
23:40:32  <Xaroth> heh
23:42:33  <peter1138>
23:42:53  <peter1138> ^ uses delaunay
23:42:58  <peter1138> if you catch my drift
23:44:01  <peter1138> not that i'm suggesting a port to c++
23:44:08  <peter1138> much
23:49:23  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... something's awfully wrong on this 2048^2 map....
23:49:47  <Eddi|zuHause> it assigns neighbours that are nowhere near each other
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