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00:01:08 <z-MaTRiX> hi guys 00:01:13 <z-MaTRiX> http://matrix.z-labor.com/tmp/C/textmode.tar.gz 00:01:42 <z-MaTRiX> i was playing with this, font included optimization:none 00:04:47 <z-MaTRiX> now the FPS counter can print the fps onto screen 00:07:24 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:47 <Eddi|zuHause> sooo... second order functions? 00:23:17 <Eddi|zuHause> or partial function evaluation 00:54:08 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-083-218.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 00:58:52 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-25-156.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:56 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-28-34-18.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:46:12 *** pjpe [ae5b514a@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 02:01:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C180.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:16:50 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 02:20:59 *** yorick_ [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:02:03 <Eddi|zuHause> [29.11.2011 00:24] <Yexo> I didn't know nml was this slow when compiling cets <-- part of the problem is that it actually does a lot of work twice. once for the dependency run (i'm still not sure why that's needed) and once for the "real" output 03:14:25 *** pjpe [ae5b514a@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 03:14:31 *** pjpe [ae5b514a@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 03:53:37 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:68a9:e2eb:491d:f82c] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:16:55 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-103-88.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:53:36 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75E24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:53:57 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73845.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:19:24 *** Guest18444 [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:20:08 *** AD [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has joined #openttd 06:20:46 *** AD is now known as Guest18658 06:25:50 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 06:31:32 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:50:35 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 06:51:14 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:58:31 *** DDR_ [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 06:59:55 *** DDR_ [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has quit [] 07:13:33 *** AD_ [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has joined #openttd 07:17:44 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 07:19:06 *** Guest18658 [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:35:50 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 07:50:56 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 07:56:23 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:57:34 <planetmaker> moin 07:57:37 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 08:06:38 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:07:34 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:17:42 *** virrpanna [virr@forskningsavd.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:34:23 *** B-17 [~B-17@83-238-151-215.ip.netia.com.pl] has joined #openttd 08:34:25 <B-17> Hello. 08:35:13 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-190-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:36:51 <planetmaker> hello 08:42:09 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:08:34 *** AD_ [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:09:15 *** AD [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has joined #openttd 09:09:56 *** AD is now known as Guest18674 09:23:56 <dihedral> oi 09:42:16 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-106-18.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:48:32 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-172-134.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:51:37 <peter1138> yo 09:57:15 *** pjpe [ae5b514a@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:06:18 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A03C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:11:12 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:54:59 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: Sla Mutant Co-Op for Renegade - coming back soon] 10:55:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:02:27 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 11:18:31 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:26:40 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111115183541]] 11:56:11 <TrueBrain> Good day to you, 11:56:12 <TrueBrain> I hope this correspondence of mine meets you in good health.My name is Mr. Jacque Kouame, I am on the employment of one of the leading banks. I am writing to seek your cooperation for investment partnership in your country. Funds for the investment shall be provided by me. 11:56:14 <TrueBrain> I will give you full details of my investment proposal on receipt of your acknowledgement of this correspondence. 11:56:15 <TrueBrain> I await your response in earliest. 11:56:17 <TrueBrain> doest that really work? 11:59:39 <Noldo> emails are free 11:59:51 <Noldo> writing one doesn't take long 12:00:00 <Noldo> with one catch you are making profit 12:01:29 <__ln__> there was an article some time ago about a finnish guy who has sent 35000⬠to some african country in order to receive gold worth of 2 million AND a beautiful young wife, to whom he has been sending the money. 12:02:16 <__ln__> he was upset that banks are refusing to loan him another 35000⬠which would be required to actually get the gold. 12:10:43 <planetmaker> sounds like urban legend 12:14:07 <__ln__> it does, but there was a picture and name and all... well here it is, http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/pelimies_jarmo.jpg 12:17:41 <B-17> Weird. 12:21:27 <planetmaker> __ln__, it's on the internet, thus it's true and real? ;-) 12:22:10 <__ln__> absolutely 12:39:50 <B-17> Everything in internet is real. 12:43:38 <Elukka> it was pretty widely reported and i don't really see reason to doubt it 12:43:44 <Elukka> they wouldn't send those mails if it didn't work 12:45:13 *** AD [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has joined #openttd 12:45:48 *** AD is now known as Guest18690 12:45:51 <Elukka> same thing with all that viagra spam 12:45:55 <Elukka> they send it because people buy 12:46:47 <B-17> "Buy viagra it makes ur dik biger lol" 12:47:36 <Elukka> and people buy! 12:47:56 <Elukka> though i guess unlike the "THIS IS TOTALLY SERIOUS AND REAL YOU WILL GET MILLION" mails it's not really a scam 12:50:52 *** Guest18674 [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:53:31 <TrueBrain> they just dont mention which dollar 12:53:43 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:54:54 <Elukka> http://i.imgur.com/QLE8R.jpg 13:01:15 <michi_cc> Elukka: People buy because these more or less illegal shops are the only way for them to get prescription drugs as the legal way is too expensive for them. (German story: http://heise.de/-1278401) 13:01:27 <Elukka> probably 13:01:52 <Elukka> as i understand there's a whole thriving spam economy 13:02:02 <Elukka> some people dig up email addresses and sell them off to spammers 13:02:17 <Elukka> others code viruses to make zombie networks out of computers and sell time on them to spammers 13:02:28 <Elukka> and the spammers sell whatever product they have to pay the others and make a profit 13:06:26 <SpComb> yarly 13:07:46 <V453000> silly question, but ... can passenger wagons have different sprites for full/empty wagons? 13:07:53 <V453000> I guess it could, right? 13:08:02 <andythenorth> it could 13:08:12 <V453000> \o/ thanks 13:08:40 <B-17> OpenTTD should have military wagons. 13:08:48 <B-17> With wepons or ammunation. 13:09:05 <V453000> what would that be useful for 13:09:22 <V453000> but I guess the ultimate answer is "make a newGRF" :p 13:09:41 <andythenorth> make a newgrf 13:09:55 <andythenorth> the military theme is one of the few 'banned' things in ottd 13:10:07 <andythenorth> if you uploaded that to bananas, not sure what would happen 13:10:58 <V453000> ? 13:11:05 <peter1138> we wouldn't add it to the game, but user content is another matter 13:11:34 <V453000> why is a "military" newgrf bad? 13:13:18 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 13:13:19 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:bc4e:9b13:c3b5:5fcd] has joined #openttd 13:13:22 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:14:17 <andythenorth> hmm 13:14:26 <andythenorth> there's the military helicopter somewhere 13:15:16 <V453000> true 13:17:22 <Mazur> I'd presume, military is bad, because the primary purpose of the military is war, and war is bad. 13:18:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:18:49 <V453000> I totally agree there 13:19:03 <V453000> but if someone enjoys a newGRF that way, I would mainly look at how it works 13:19:10 <Mazur> Indeed. 13:19:32 <V453000> we could say that computer games are also bad .. :) 13:20:17 <Mazur> Well, haven't you heard? They are! 13:20:46 <V453000> I will just go dig some NUTS :p 13:28:13 <Mazur> Perhaps people are afraid, that once military cargoes are in the game, some people will demand and/or make OTTD into YAKSG (Yet Another "Kill Someone" Game). 13:29:21 <Mazur> I personally love how OTTD is for once not about beating someone else, but purely about the means, the trains and cargoes. 13:30:59 <Mazur> It was the main reason I started playing. 13:32:07 <Arafangion> Mazur: It's not!? 13:32:41 <Mazur> Nope. 13:32:48 <Arafangion> I disagree. :) 13:33:06 <Mazur> You can play competitively, but that's not a given. 13:33:30 <Mazur> And even then it's not about killing. 13:33:33 <Arafangion> Regardless, it's usually a given in most of the public multiplayer servers, I believe. 13:33:49 <Mazur> I only play those. 13:33:54 <Mazur> But not competitively. 13:34:53 <Mazur> I loathe the concept that in order to feel good you have to prove yourself better than someone else. 13:35:43 <Arafangion> Mazur: I don't think we can be friends. :) 13:36:09 *** virrpanna [virr@forskningsavd.se] has joined #openttd 13:36:10 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:36:20 <V453000> you literally cannot compete in openttd 13:36:49 <Arafangion> V453000: How so? 13:37:28 <Mazur> You can, by someone hosting the same game once for each contestant, and allowing each of them into one instance. 13:37:29 <V453000> because any stats that a certain network shows cannot be compared and do not say whether the person is actually good or not 13:37:40 <V453000> no not even that way Mazur 13:37:56 <Mazur> Ah yes, network factor, true. 13:38:07 <V453000> if you played "for money" for example, then you could notice that playing more dumbly is actually more profittable 13:38:34 <V453000> why would you make hubs when you just need everything to go to the farthest point possible 13:38:44 <Arafangion> Good point. 13:38:52 <Arafangion> But still, even in competition games, hubs make sense. 13:39:04 <blathijs> V453000: So you actually mean that the network "quality" (whatever that's supposed to mean) is not measurable right now (certainly not by profits)? 13:39:16 <V453000> blathijs: for sure 13:39:19 <Arafangion> Because by eventually getting all your cargo at the farthest point, you'll have lots of whatever produce the industry makes. 13:48:57 <B-17> War is bad indeed. 13:49:09 <B-17> But without war goverment would kill civilians to test their new toys. 13:49:11 <B-17> :P 13:50:14 <Mazur> B-17: Weapons manufacturers are generally private companies. 13:50:14 <lugo> there would be no more need for such toys 13:53:03 <B-17> Weapons are best selling things in the world. 13:53:07 <B-17> Also the most interesing. 13:53:19 <B-17> World without weapons just cannot exist, they're too interesing to abandon them,. 13:54:07 <Mazur> I disagree. I find there is nothing interesting about weapons, that is not covered in other stuff. 13:54:37 <Mazur> E.g. ballistics. No need for weapons to play with that. 13:54:42 <lugo> well it did exist without them for quite some time.. 13:55:50 <Mazur> Indeed, lugo. 13:56:28 <B-17> You say that weapons are useless, but if a man with a gun would stand infront of you with intent of killing you, you would be hella happy to have one too for self defense 13:57:25 <Mazur> You know, people in te US generally have, people in hte Netherlands don't, guess which country more burglary victims get killed? 13:57:31 <B-17> Also, lol, have you ever seen an economic game about beating? 13:57:49 <B-17> Because you just said you love OpenTTD because there's no beating 13:59:39 <B-17> Also Mazur, the problem is that US has lots of illegal weapons dealers. 13:59:50 <B-17> So you can get a gun with ammo with cheap price. 14:13:49 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db187cc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:17:59 <Belugas> hi 14:18:17 <B-17> Hello. 14:19:09 <B-17> Why at the starting screen the boats go through themselves? 14:19:31 <TrueBrain> because they do that in the game too 14:20:24 <B-17> That's unreallistic. 14:20:29 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc12-linl7-2-0-cust144.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:23:50 <TrueBrain> lol; you seriously complained that OpenTTD is unrealistic? 14:23:59 <TrueBrain> owh, where to start pointing out how unrealistic OpenTTD is .... 14:24:32 <B-17> EVERYWHERE!11 14:25:02 <B-17> Lol but realism is breaking the game more than makes it more enjoyable. 14:25:10 <Elukka> B-17: it has nothing to do with weapons being "interesting", what the hell 14:25:27 <B-17> Weapons are good. 14:25:28 <B-17> End. 14:25:37 <Elukka> just as a blanket statement all weapons are good? 14:25:45 <TinoDidriksen> You'd have to change the relative scale of the whole game to get near realism... 14:26:05 <B-17> Well, not all. 14:26:08 <B-17> Some of them suck. 14:26:19 <Elukka> how do you feel about the humongous military spending of the US government? 14:27:01 <B-17> USA always do that stuff, because they cannot think first. 14:27:45 <Elukka> they do it because they have a hugely powerful and influential armaments industry 14:28:04 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:28:33 <B-17> And because of oil. 14:29:50 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:29:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:37:57 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 14:53:58 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73845.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:27 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73845.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:58:38 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 15:03:14 *** TomyLobo [~foo@84.148.120.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:18 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:39 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 15:04:25 *** TomyLobo [~foo@p54947883.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:18:34 *** TomyLobo2 [~foo@79.194.41.133] has joined #openttd 15:24:26 *** TomyLobo [~foo@p54947883.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:24:26 *** TomyLobo2 is now known as TomyLobo 15:24:38 <Eddi|zuHause> <Elukka> http://i.imgur.com/QLE8R.jpg <-- the actually interesting thing is that they find the time to print actual artwork on them. compare with this example of the usage of a "one million mark" bill: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_102-00193,_Inflation,_Ein-Millionen-Markschein.jpg 15:25:51 <Elukka> heh 15:26:18 <Elukka> well i suppose these days you've got a photoshop file and when your glorious currency inflates by a few thousand percent you just change the numbers a bit 15:26:44 <Elukka> probably have the same art for the previous bills 15:27:00 <Eddi|zuHause> in the later stages, the bills had "valid until <date>" printed on them 15:33:26 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc12-linl7-2-0-cust144.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:34:25 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 15:37:40 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc12-linl7-2-0-cust144.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:53:35 * andythenorth doesn't understand 15:58:16 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@5.80-203-76.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 16:01:55 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: didn't you want to remove the "LATEST" link from the cillpp-download page? 16:04:26 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:13:37 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:41 <__ln__> very nice... for my 5-day trip in europe i only have 4 different currencies with me. 16:25:42 <b_jonas> __ln__: USD, EUR, GBP, CHS? 16:25:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that'll be 10 for the same trip in ~5-10 years :P 16:26:21 <Eddi|zuHause> CHS? did you mean CHF? 16:26:29 <__ln__> b_jonas: i'm not aware of any european country using USD. 16:26:32 <supermop> cheese 16:26:44 * andythenorth only accepts dollars in HD 16:26:57 <__ln__> b_jonas: EUR, DKK, PLN, SEK. 16:27:10 <b_jonas> __ln__: they're not using it, but it can make sense to carry it because you can change it in many places if needed 16:27:41 <b_jonas> probably you can't compute in advance how much you'll spend and can carry the extra as USD if you already have it, to avoid the losses of changing 16:27:48 <b_jonas> that's if you already have USD anyway 16:27:49 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: and in which place do they take USD but not EUR? 16:28:15 <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: I assumed __ln__ already gets his wages in USD so he has some 16:28:23 * andythenorth will promise to work on the dollars in the future, as long as they're in HD 16:28:27 <Eddi|zuHause> why would he do that? 16:28:42 <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: he said "trip in europe", that sounds like he's american 16:28:53 * andythenorth thinks this irc channel should be in HD 16:29:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and did you try a /whois yet? 16:29:03 <andythenorth> it will get more users if it's HD 16:30:50 <b_jonas> what channel flag is that? 16:31:11 <__ln__> andythenorth: you can move your chair 2 feet farther from the screen and the same resolution will fit in a smaller are in your eyes. 16:31:25 <andythenorth> my chair isn't HD 16:31:47 <Eddi|zuHause> you have an ANALOGUE chair?!? 16:31:48 <andythenorth> a HD version of my chair would gain more users than paid-for chairs 16:32:01 <andythenorth> my chair is a sofa. That's like HD right? 16:32:23 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that's like widescreen 16:33:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C180.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:35:45 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 16:36:42 <andythenorth> ah 16:36:47 <andythenorth> so what's the definition of HD then? 16:36:48 <andythenorth> :P 16:37:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the resolution! 16:37:21 <Eddi|zuHause> it looks realistic!!! :p 16:37:25 <andythenorth> omg 16:37:26 <andythenorth> wtf 16:37:38 <andythenorth> you mean SD isn't realistic? :o 16:38:00 <Rubidium> NewGRFs are mostly HD anyhow... at least, someone was high when defining it ;) 16:38:21 <__ln__> HD is 10 times slower than SD. 16:38:40 <andythenorth> is it 10 times more realistic :P 16:38:58 * andythenorth wonders if T_Tycoon would understand "ceci n'est pas une pipe" 16:39:03 <andythenorth> wrt realism 16:39:08 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treachery_of_Images 16:39:23 <andythenorth> that pipe would be more realistic in HD 16:40:24 <Elukka> http://www.kornaat.com/wp-content/uploads/Magritte-Pipe.jpg 16:40:30 <Elukka> here, in resolution far above HD 16:40:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so NewGRFs were defined by dutch people? :p 16:40:34 <Elukka> it's still not a pipe though 16:40:40 <andythenorth> Elukka: that is more realistic 16:40:46 <Rubidium> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mondrian_Composition_II_in_Red,_Blue,_and_Yellow.jpg <- I guess those paintings are not HD... only 5 colours... 16:41:03 <andythenorth> to be fair to T_Tycoon, I think he (she?) said 'more beautiful' not 'more realistic' 16:41:11 <andythenorth> which is not a bad aim 16:44:37 <Belugas> questin is : what the hell does he keep looking at OpenTTD as a game??? 16:45:23 <Elukka> huh? 16:45:27 <andythenorth> because it's fun to troll us? 16:47:38 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:49:46 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-103-88.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 16:56:19 <Arkabzol> OpenTTD isn't a game, it's a drug. 16:56:55 <Arkabzol> Also, question. 16:57:00 <Arkabzol> Is water always at the same level? 16:59:12 <TWerkhoven> yest, except for rivers 17:01:11 *** luckz [~lkz@luckz.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01:12 *** luckz [~lkz@luckz.de] has joined #openttd 17:01:33 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 17:01:44 <andythenorth> and canals 17:02:25 * peter1138 ponders this 32bpp recolouring lark 17:02:38 <Arkabzol> But you can dig lower than that? 17:02:57 <Arkabzol> I'm going to find out in just a sec anyway... but uh. 17:04:25 <Arkabzol> Seems not. 17:06:44 <TWerkhoven> im fairly sure you cannot dig beneath sealevel, as there is nothing you can build there anyway 17:07:23 <Arkabzol> Yeah. I just found out. 17:12:53 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 17:15:19 <TrueBrain> there, new version of NoGo in the oven :D 17:15:47 * Sacro grabs a plate 17:16:33 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-075-023.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 17:21:46 <B-17> No no no, Sacro, put that plate down. 17:23:57 <Sacro> :( 17:23:59 * Sacro sulks 17:28:56 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:32:04 <B-17> Take this instead. 17:32:21 * B-17 gives Sacro a heavy metal tray. 17:34:11 <B-17> What does that mean: 21kg of wood (2x)? 17:38:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:38:53 <planetmaker> you're probably using a cargo weight multiplier of 2 17:39:18 <planetmaker> thus the 21t of wood you carry actually weigh 42t for the purpose of what the engine needs to pull 17:40:18 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-196.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:45:47 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-34-42.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 17:46:40 <B-17> Was anyone inside of a maglev IRL? 17:50:28 <__ln__> i was, but it wasn't real. does that count? 17:50:54 <B-17> No. 17:50:55 <B-17> Leave. 17:50:58 <B-17> You liar. 17:51:29 <B-17> MagLev's exist IRL. 17:51:30 <__ln__> i mean, i was inside a 1:1 replica of a maglev at Munich airport. 17:51:37 *** Chruker [~no@5634a56d.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #openttd 17:52:00 <B-17> But was it working? 17:52:41 <__ln__> i doubt it had any kind of mag or lev in it. 17:53:31 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:53:57 <TrueBrain> how is he a liar for telling the truth? 17:54:04 <TrueBrain> odd persception of a lie you have 17:55:17 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:55:18 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:59:07 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 17:59:43 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [] 18:00:14 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 18:00:50 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 18:02:43 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: do you still need a disk? 18:02:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:06:49 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 18:13:20 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc775.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:14:30 <Terkhen> hello 18:15:39 <B-17> Everyone's a liar. 18:18:09 <Alberth> that's a paradox 18:19:57 <andythenorth> Alberth: depends on your definition of formal logic iirc 18:22:26 <Alberth> no doubt you can invent a system where it is true :) 18:22:34 <Terkhen> everyone has lied at least once? :) 18:23:02 <andythenorth> Alberth: I was reading wikipedia about it somewhere recently 18:23:28 <andythenorth> but that could apply to just about anything :P 18:23:41 * andythenorth is too tired for philosophy 18:23:47 <Alberth> you were reading that at en.wikipedia.org, I think :p 18:24:08 <andythenorth> probably 18:24:14 <andythenorth> as my other languages are....poor :P 18:24:29 <Alberth> :D 18:24:37 *** ptr is now known as Guest18726 18:29:26 <B-17> Everything lies. 18:29:34 <B-17> Even the green text lies. 18:35:11 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-2-96-17-222.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 18:35:18 <Arkabzol> >greentext lying 18:35:28 <Arkabzol> Bullshit. 18:36:41 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:38:11 <Prof_Frink> Cake. 18:38:32 <Alberth> nice, that needs some tea 18:40:24 <andythenorth> tea 18:41:23 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:41:53 <B-17> Tea lies. 18:43:00 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23347 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files): 18:43:00 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:43:00 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 72 changes by kasakg 18:43:00 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: dutch - 8 changes by habell 18:43:00 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: portuguese - 24 changes by JayCity 18:43:02 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: romanian - 41 changes by kkmic 18:43:02 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf 18:43:29 <Alberth> B-17: help 18:43:36 <B-17> Alberth: How?! 18:44:11 <Alberth> you're spinning a web of lies 18:44:19 <B-17> And I'll trap you there. 18:44:29 * B-17 traps Alberth in a web of lies. 18:44:45 <frosch123> looks like turing test passed :p 18:44:47 <B-17> Now lets wait for the lying spider. 18:44:49 <Prof_Frink> An interweb of lies? 18:45:39 <Terkhen> turing test lies 18:45:42 * Prof_Frink hits Sacro with the Book of Lies 18:46:57 <TrueBrain> I am starting to wonder if any of you is real 18:47:28 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-2-96-17-222.as13285.net] has left #openttd [Leaving] 18:47:34 <DorpsGek> i am! 18:47:45 <Rubidium> I'm not! 18:48:17 <TrueBrain> owh, you kids 18:48:18 <B-17> Join my liar cause. 18:48:22 <B-17> You'll be rich. 18:48:30 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 18:48:50 <B-17> Also TrueBrain, world is a lie. 18:48:53 <Prof_Frink> B-17: Why should I believe you? 18:49:07 <B-17> You are really in a huge virtual world being so reallistic you have barriers between fun. 18:49:12 <B-17> Prof_Frink: Because I can't lie. 18:49:32 <Prof_Frink> This statement is false. 18:49:39 <B-17> You're false. 18:49:50 <Prof_Frink> Your mum is false. 18:50:09 <B-17> Operators please kick he for saying that I have no mother. 18:50:22 <TrueBrain> @kick B-17 no problem; at least, I assume what you said was a lie 18:50:22 *** B-17 was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [no problem; at least, I assume what you said was a lie] 18:50:22 *** B-17 [~B-17@83-238-151-215.ip.netia.com.pl] has joined #openttd 18:50:29 <TrueBrain> @kban B-17 10 no problem; at least, I assume what you said was a lie 18:50:30 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!~B-17@83-238-151-215.ip.netia.com.pl] by DorpsGek 18:50:30 *** B-17 was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [no problem; at least, I assume what you said was a lie] 18:50:38 <TrueBrain> auto-rejoins, I hate auto-rejoins :P 18:50:41 *** mode/#openttd [-b *!~B-17@83-238-151-215.ip.netia.com.pl] by DorpsGek 18:50:42 * Prof_Frink pats Dorpy 18:50:42 *** B-17 [~B-17@83-238-151-215.ip.netia.com.pl] has joined #openttd 18:50:50 <B-17> I knew that the ban was a lie. 18:51:04 <andythenorth> oh 18:51:05 <TrueBrain> @kban B-17 600 or was it? 18:51:07 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!~B-17@83-238-151-215.ip.netia.com.pl] by DorpsGek 18:51:07 *** B-17 was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [or was it?] 18:51:11 <andythenorth> T_Tycoon has repliet 18:51:13 <TrueBrain> now he was just begging for it 18:51:35 *** mode/#openttd [+q *!B-17@*.*] by Rubidium 18:51:50 <andythenorth> ¿ but why don't we advertise in the game website for people to complete graphics? 18:51:52 <andythenorth> it's a fair point 18:51:53 <Rubidium> I hope that helps ;) 18:52:02 <Prof_Frink> Silence will fall. 18:52:04 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you spil all the fun :'( 18:52:06 <TrueBrain> spoil 18:52:13 <Rubidium> andythenorth: because it even fails for translations? 18:54:17 <Rubidium> and IMO you should have some good idea where you're heading instead of the total chaos that 32bpp graphics development is 18:55:07 *** Guest18726 [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Guest18726] 18:59:43 <andythenorth> personally I wouldn't care if 32bpp got accidentally deleted 18:59:51 <andythenorth> but still he might have a point 19:01:02 <TrueBrain> pff, do you know how much work it took me to get 32bpp to work? Pfff :P 19:01:09 *** mode/#openttd [-b *!~B-17@83-238-151-215.ip.netia.com.pl] by DorpsGek 19:01:30 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: you are an under-appreciated hero :) 19:01:39 <TrueBrain> I am sure I am not :P 19:02:08 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: Time that could've been spent implementing custombridgeheads. 19:02:28 <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: hehe; hell no :) 19:03:15 <andythenorth> or on Bananas 2 :) 19:03:35 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: should you ever wish to tackle bananas 2...or even 1.5... 19:03:35 <andythenorth> you could have the dubious pleasure of my help 19:03:41 <TrueBrain> in the time there aws no BaNaNaS 1? 19:03:42 <Prof_Frink> Bananas 2: Pineapple. 19:03:43 <TrueBrain> would have been odd :P 19:04:35 <andythenorth> anyway, GS doesn't fit in BaNaNaS 19:04:44 <andythenorth> new acronym time 19:04:50 <TrueBrain> the first one that breaks it indeed 19:04:51 <andythenorth> new bananas time :P 19:04:56 <TrueBrain> so far we could fiddle enough to make it fit :P 19:05:18 <andythenorth> Banana Split? 19:05:31 <Alberth> banana script ;) 19:05:35 <andythenorth> Green Bananas 19:06:36 <Rubidium> the S just stands for stuff 19:06:50 <TrueBrain> and Stuff, haha :D 19:07:05 <TrueBrain> or: And Scripts :) 19:07:15 <Rubidium> scenarios and heightmaps aren't scripts 19:07:38 <TrueBrain> Base, and NewGRF and New Maps and Scripts :P 19:07:44 <Prof_Frink> Bangnanas. 19:08:45 <andythenorth> Bangers n Mash 19:08:52 <andythenorth> probably can be reverse acronymed 19:13:03 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.87.71] has joined #openttd 19:17:09 <frosch123> Basesets and NewGRFs and NoScripts and Such? 19:17:31 <andythenorth> Basesets and NewGRFs and NoScripts and Stuff and Such 19:17:41 <andythenorth> Bananas2 19:18:02 <frosch123> BaNaN(aS)² 19:18:26 <andythenorth> one day someone will be smart enough to do an updated version :) 19:18:33 <andythenorth> or brave, or bored, or dumb 19:18:36 <andythenorth> any of the above 19:19:00 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 19:19:03 <andythenorth> I got as far as building out Pyramid on a coop test server 19:19:09 <andythenorth> then I remembered I can't program :P 19:19:10 <frosch123> someone must be bored enough to search for a dumb person doing it? 19:19:42 <andythenorth> "can't we do it in Wordpress?" 19:19:53 <andythenorth> ^ stock joke for anyone who actually makes web apps :P 19:20:09 <andythenorth> but seriously, could we do it in wordpress? 19:20:11 <andythenorth> I couldn't 19:23:21 <frosch123> i think you do stuff with facebook today? 19:24:05 <andythenorth> hmm 19:24:10 <andythenorth> probably via Wordpress though 19:25:19 <andythenorth> would be nice to be able to match compatibility, i.e. latest newgrf compatible with your ottd 19:26:50 * andythenorth assumes that doesn't work currently, but hasn't actually tested :P 19:27:15 <andythenorth> if I set e.g. FIRS compatible to nightly rxxxxx, does it disappear for users of 1.1 or such? 19:27:40 <frosch123> yes 19:27:50 <andythenorth> thought so :P 19:28:26 <frosch123> though it breaks on dependencies or so 19:28:46 *** Vettel [~Zeknurn@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 19:29:26 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-28-138-185.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:31:17 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:31:17 *** Vettel is now known as Zeknurn 19:39:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D968.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:43:16 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@5.80-203-76.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]] 19:46:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C180.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:48:28 <andythenorth> can we swap smoke sprites for real time particle effects? 19:48:45 <peter1138> yes 19:48:51 <peter1138> just create a spec for it 19:50:40 <andythenorth> ok 19:50:53 <andythenorth> Spec. item 1: use particle effects for smoke 19:50:57 <andythenorth> Spec. item 2: ship 19:51:03 <andythenorth> End of Spec 19:51:06 <andythenorth> good enough? 19:51:16 <peter1138> not really 19:51:36 <andythenorth> oh dear 19:51:48 * andythenorth goes back to planning a truck set 19:51:52 <frosch123> just like ror into ottd 19:51:54 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:51:57 <frosch123> *link 19:52:25 <andythenorth> can we use real time particle effects to create trucks? 19:53:11 <peter1138> sure 19:53:15 <peter1138> just create a spec for it 19:54:10 <andythenorth> just swap 'smoke' for 'trucks' above 19:54:12 <andythenorth> done 19:54:24 <andythenorth> did flat docks work out? 19:56:06 <peter1138> haven't looked 19:56:47 <z-MaTRiX> hey 19:57:23 <peter1138> if only we could mangle the station specs... 19:57:45 <andythenorth> this is true 19:58:06 <andythenorth> from what I've seen, station specs come pre-mangled 19:58:21 <peter1138> not really 20:06:30 <andythenorth> how would I explain that a truck costs more to run if you use it for some cargos? (e.g. bulk) 20:06:35 <andythenorth> or is that just a bad idea? 20:07:26 <Alberth> isn't that just non-zero refit costs? 20:07:45 <frosch123> it that running cost only applies during load/unload, it should be fine 20:08:44 <andythenorth> the intention is to have some lightly built trucks, which work well for piece goods cargos, but would not stand up to e.g. coal, wood etc 20:08:57 <andythenorth> but I could do that in other ways, e.g. by limiting refits 20:09:31 <frosch123> wouldn't you just reduce the capacity then? :p 20:10:33 <frosch123> or do you want to add an overweight refit? "increase capacity by 50% in exchange for +50% running cost, +50% breakdown chance" ? 20:11:25 <Alberth> frosch123: money /breakdown is much more subtle than capacity 20:14:22 <andythenorth> more like 'same capacity (t) but +50% run cost, +50% breakdown chance' 20:14:34 <andythenorth> how to tell that in the GUI though? 20:14:40 <andythenorth> and it might just be a bad idea anyway 20:16:11 <frosch123> well, breakdown is not part of cb 36 anyway. and likely not worth the effort 20:16:16 *** Timmaexx [~chatzilla@port-92-205-33-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 20:16:39 <Timmaexx> Good evening Guys 20:17:12 <planetmaker> hi tim 20:18:03 <andythenorth> hmm 20:18:13 * andythenorth doesn't want to overcomplicate BANDIT 20:18:28 <andythenorth> when I use trucks, my method is "what's fastest? Build 10 of those" :P 20:18:44 <planetmaker> capacity should be *some* factor ;-) 20:18:55 <planetmaker> 10 of the gmund usually just don't cut it ;-) 20:19:01 <andythenorth> true 20:19:09 * andythenorth is thinking of eGRVTS 20:19:18 <andythenorth> more capacity = more trucks 20:19:23 <planetmaker> yes, true 20:19:34 <andythenorth> which delivers more, 10 big slow ones, or 15 small fast ones? 20:19:34 <planetmaker> but as said before: depends a bit which station I have. 20:19:36 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.4.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 20:19:56 <planetmaker> question rather is: which pays better for the same cargo? 20:20:08 <andythenorth> ho :) 20:20:13 <andythenorth> sometimes I try and figure that out 20:20:16 <andythenorth> other times less so 20:20:23 <planetmaker> I usually don't 20:20:25 <planetmaker> :-P 20:20:46 <planetmaker> actually: never ;-) 20:21:50 <andythenorth> I sometimes run multiple types on a route, then replace to whichever wins 20:21:57 <andythenorth> like an A | B split test 20:21:58 <andythenorth> :P 20:22:28 <TrueBrain> This transfer was NOT PROCESSED! 20:22:30 <TrueBrain> For additional details, please check attached batch transaction report 20:22:31 <TrueBrain> Thank You! 20:22:33 <TrueBrain> Client service Team. 20:22:34 <TrueBrain> :'( BUT WHY!!!! 20:25:41 <andythenorth> it's funny how the report might be an executable file 20:25:49 * andythenorth has had a lot of failed transactions today 20:25:52 <andythenorth> also IRS tax refunds 20:25:58 <andythenorth> and DHL deliveries 20:28:32 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 20:33:22 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: feel like updating the cargo wiki to new (YACS) spec? 20:33:41 * andythenorth is working on a set design and needs to decide on classes... 20:34:02 <andythenorth> good chance to see if it works, or if we were all smoking crack 20:55:34 <frosch123> night 20:55:36 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc775.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:49 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:06:57 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 21:07:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23348 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4679]: make signal removal behaviour work the same regardless of autofill, i.e. always removal all signals instead those at the signal interval 21:08:12 *** Timmaexx [~chatzilla@port-92-205-33-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]] 21:08:35 <Terkhen> nice :) 21:08:58 <Terkhen> that's one of the things that annoy me but not enough to make me think of the issue 21:09:17 <Rubidium> well, apparantly barely anyone cares 21:09:28 <planetmaker> oO 21:09:32 <planetmaker> I never _noticed_ 21:09:33 <Rubidium> as I asked about it and nobody (except one) replied 21:10:08 <planetmaker> but what the commit message says is what I'd expect to happen 21:10:40 <Alberth> I keep the interval length always the same, and hardly remove signals, I also never found that issue 21:11:06 <Alberth> good night all 21:11:11 <planetmaker> I hardly ever change my signal distance of two ;-) 21:11:12 <Rubidium> night Alberth 21:11:14 <planetmaker> g'night Alberth 21:11:23 <planetmaker> thus it "just worked" 21:11:33 <Zuu> not to mention that you need to make sure the rail is clear from trains before safely removing signals in one go :-) 21:11:50 <Rubidium> lies! ;) 21:11:56 <Alberth> Zuu: just live at the edge :p 21:12:17 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:15:24 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 21:15:27 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: a few days ago I had to change a 2 distance rail to a 4 distance (YAIM makes you want to do that) 21:15:32 <TrueBrain> it was so fucking annoying :) 21:15:39 <TrueBrain> CTRL did remove them all, dragging didn't .. argh .. :D 21:15:47 <TrueBrain> so I am happy Rubidium fixed it before YAIM :P :P 21:16:07 * andythenorth should try YAIM 21:16:32 * Zuu just added YAIM to OTTDAU 21:17:31 <Zuu> With the rate of new patches, I will soon have to think about if I should implement auto-adding of new targets :-) 21:18:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D968.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:20:58 <planetmaker> hm, are signals that expensive, TrueBrain ? 21:21:52 <TrueBrain> yes 21:21:57 <TrueBrain> well, not _that_ expensive 21:22:02 <TrueBrain> but expensive enough to notice when you do 2 vs 4 21:22:08 <TrueBrain> (50% :P) 21:22:57 <planetmaker> maybe I should give yaim a shot one day. tbh I didn't yet playtest it 21:26:22 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-121-145.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 21:31:51 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #openttd [] 21:33:12 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-34-42.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:11 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest18741 21:36:11 *** Guest18741 [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:41:22 <Terkhen> neither did I, I hope to have time again soon :) 21:41:24 <Terkhen> good night 21:43:07 <andythenorth> I shall credit the buy menu spam in BANDIT to planetmaker :D 21:43:20 <andythenorth> I may put notes in the buy menu text about it :) 21:49:23 <planetmaker> g'night Terkhen 21:49:27 <planetmaker> meh, andythenorth ;-) 21:52:31 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-190-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 21:55:36 * andythenorth bed 21:55:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:19:16 <Eddi|zuHause> <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: do you still need a disk? <-- currently it's nice and calm as it always has been... 22:20:40 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23349 /trunk/src/ai/ai_info.hpp: -Fix (r23210): one remaining unneeded GetClassName 22:21:06 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23350 /trunk/src/ (54 files in 3 dirs): -Add: support different ScriptTypes in the helper functions for GetClassName (Rubidium) 22:21:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23351 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (squirrel_export.awk squirrel_export.sh): -Add: generate the correct API type when creating Squirrel glue (Rubidium) 22:22:02 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.87.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:22:03 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23352 /trunk/src/ (53 files in 3 dirs): -Add: support dynamically adding an API prefix when returning a C++ class to Squirrel 22:22:40 <Xaroth> I see where this is going... 22:22:50 <TrueBrain> nah, you dont 22:22:57 <Xaroth> damn 22:28:14 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23353 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_townlist.hpp.sq: -Fix (r23350): somehow one file slipped through as unmodified 22:28:39 <appe> http://gyazo.com/38158f78dc19ab00c0a42a255a5cb7b9 22:28:46 <appe> what can i do to make this town grow? 22:28:58 <appe> people wise, and not map size 22:33:22 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-196.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:34:13 <TrueBrain> have nothing in the stations 22:34:23 <TrueBrain> have good rating 22:35:09 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Poof] 22:35:47 <planetmaker> appe: build long road tunnels so that it can grow outside its currently fenced terrain 22:36:59 <appe> oh, i see 22:42:13 <appe> bah, my builds litteraly end up like the soviet union 22:42:27 <appe> remains of construction everywhere, and absolutely nothing works. 22:42:40 <appe> as three wise men said; ambitious, but rubbish. 22:46:32 <Eddi|zuHause> <Prof_Frink> Silence will fall. <-- did that actually happen yet? 22:51:34 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> if only we could mangle the station specs... <-- use the newairport specs :) 22:52:02 <peter1138> :S 22:53:47 <Eddi|zuHause> no honestly, wasn't that the plan anyways? extend airport specs to cover docks and road stations 22:54:14 <Eddi|zuHause> (and finalize the statemachine specs while at it) 22:54:35 <Eddi|zuHause> (afair a major pitfall there was articulated vehicles) 22:55:57 <Eddi|zuHause> (and after that make "traffic objects"... non-station objects with a state machine (locks, onramps, wide curves, doubletrack rails, ...) 22:58:34 <peter1138> o_O 23:00:49 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc12-linl7-2-0-cust144.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:01:30 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 23:02:42 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: Sla Mutant Co-Op for Renegade - coming back soon] 23:05:13 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23354 /trunk/ (263 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: move all src/ai/api/ai_*.[hc]pp files to src/script/api/script_* (Rubidium) 23:06:09 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: before you finalize this stuff, do we really need different prefixes for AI and GS? 23:06:22 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yes 23:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause> why? 23:06:42 <TrueBrain> the more I work with this, the more sense it makes 23:07:21 <TrueBrain> they are totally separate systems, which happen to share functionality 23:07:26 <TrueBrain> but you should never confuse the two with eachother 23:08:47 <Zuu> So by forcing GS writers to write their code from scratch or put some work into porting libraries, they will not do a GameScript AI? 23:09:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess instad of Zuu's approach with the giant sed, it's probably better to make a "compatibility layer" for libraries 23:09:13 <TrueBrain> I am waiting for the first person to make a full AI in GS .. that can never take long :D 23:09:34 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: so far I havent seen a global demand for a "compatibility layer" for libaries 23:09:36 <Eddi|zuHause> so i have one file with lots of "LibMap <- AIMap" or "LibMap <- GSMap" 23:09:38 <TrueBrain> but nothing is set in stone 23:09:51 <planetmaker> the 'evilAI': force player vehicles to transfer at an oil rig ;-) 23:10:09 <TrueBrain> but it has been suggested that we should look at SuperLib, and integrate some of those things in the API 23:10:13 <TrueBrain> as some are just odd not to have in the API 23:10:19 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: my potential "delaunay library" has only very few relations to the API 23:10:22 <planetmaker> good night 23:10:37 <Eddi|zuHause> but in the places that it does, it would need to be duplicated for AI and GS, with no real reason 23:10:38 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: atm all I can say is: time will tell 23:10:45 <TrueBrain> this is too new to say how it will be used ... 23:10:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the general algorithm is exactly the same 23:11:19 <TrueBrain> we have to go on something to finish this not next year ;) And atm this feels the best way as global approach 23:11:29 <TrueBrain> and I do understand your worry and problem, with libraries in general 23:11:44 <TrueBrain> but we will have to wait and see how often it happens, and how people adept to it 23:11:53 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't matter that much for an AI/GS itself, only the libraries 23:12:01 <TrueBrain> atm it doesn't seems GS will have library suppory, for example 23:12:17 <Eddi|zuHause> that's really bad 23:12:23 <TrueBrain> depends on your point of view 23:12:25 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 23:12:28 <TrueBrain> it is too easy to say: that is really bad :) 23:12:44 <Zuu> As long as the GS use the same license as all the libraries, it can inline the libraries. 23:12:58 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A03C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:02 <Eddi|zuHause> well, then a GS has to include _all_ functionality, even it's only slightly extended on a previous script from a different author 23:13:09 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23355 /trunk/ (175 files in 7 dirs): -Codechange: rename all AI* to Script* (Rubidium) 23:13:20 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23356 /trunk/src/os/macosx/osx_stdafx.h: -Fix: some OSX versions have ScriptOrder defined 23:13:44 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: why limit modularity for no reason? 23:13:55 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: again a big assumption to assume there is no reason 23:14:25 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: whatever the reason... i can seriously see this blowing up in half a year 23:14:31 <TrueBrain> it is for you so easy to jump to: it is not what I would do, so it is weird :) 23:14:55 <TrueBrain> but like I said earlier: nothing is set in stone, and we just have to monitor how it goes 23:15:06 <Zuu> If the GS will be stored in the savegame, there will need to be a system to also store the libraries. Another reason I can think of is that Squirrel libraries in OpenTTD is not really what they appear to be. 23:15:30 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: with inlining libraries, you _immediately_ get into copyright troubles. 23:15:48 <TrueBrain> well, it won't be copyright troubles, at best license issues :P (hihi, I just had to) 23:15:57 <Zuu> libraries is just a way to "require" some .nut files from another tar. The library end up in the same scope etc. 23:15:58 <Eddi|zuHause> which is severely less so with just using a previously released library as a black box 23:16:11 <TrueBrain> Zuu: it has a tiny bit more glue, but yeah, basically :) 23:16:28 <Zuu> Still, SuperLib proves that it can be worked around. 23:16:49 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: and the license issues are not as big as you want us to believe atm 23:17:03 <TrueBrain> you are free to include any library in your GS, supplying the right license files and information to it 23:17:09 <Zuu> Although an issue could be that libraries don't specify API version and has to do with the API version that the library user specify. Although that is not really solved when libraries get inlined. 23:17:25 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: that is until a person like Luukland appears 23:17:32 <TrueBrain> what about them? 23:18:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23357 /trunk/ (13 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: move AIStorage to ScriptStorage 23:18:46 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23358 /trunk/ (12 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: move AI_FatalError to Script_FatalError (and to its own file) 23:18:56 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23359 /trunk/ (10 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: move AI_VMSuspend to Script_Suspend (and to its own file) 23:19:06 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23360 /trunk/ (22 files in 7 dirs): -Codechange: move AIInstance to ScriptInstance, making it reusable by other script API instances 23:19:15 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23361 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: move multiplayer DoCommand callback code so other script users can call their own 23:19:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23362 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: refactor AIScanner, splitting it in AIScannerInfo and AIScannerLibrary 23:19:32 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23363 /trunk/src/script/ (script_info.hpp script_instance.hpp script_scanner.hpp): -Documentation: document a tiny bit better what is in variables 23:20:35 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:08 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23364 /trunk/ (21 files in 8 dirs): -Codechange: refactor AIConfig, moving it mostly to Scriptconfig 23:24:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23365 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: move constants to a single place, to avoid duplication (and in time, different values) 23:24:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23366 /trunk/ (13 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: move most of the Dummy code to script/, unifying it 23:24:33 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23367 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: refactor GetSetting to ScriptInstance, to avoid global variable in script_controller 23:24:40 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23368 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move FindLibrary down a few layers, so there is no layer violation anymore 23:24:50 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23369 /trunk/src/script/api/ (10 files): -Codechange: use script includes when possible, not ai includes 23:24:58 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23370 /trunk/src/ (52 files in 2 dirs): -Add: support @api tag in API header files, to select which API should receive the defined classes and functions 23:25:07 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23371 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Change: rename the DOXYGEN_AI_DOCS tag to DOXYGEN_API 23:26:01 <TrueBrain> pff, -Move is not allowed 23:26:44 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23372 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Move: move squirrel export script to script/api/ 23:26:53 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23373 /trunk/src/ (151 files in 5 dirs): -Add: move the AI API to script/api/ai, and move the Squirrel C++ glue templates to script/api/template 23:27:07 <Eddi|zuHause> change the pre-commit-hook :p 23:27:14 <TrueBrain> look what I did :P 23:29:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23374 /trunk/ (11 files in 4 dirs): -Add: Doxygen files for the NoAI API (Yexo) 23:29:32 <TrueBrain> ah, there it goes 23:29:33 <TrueBrain> okay 23:29:35 <TrueBrain> that is all for today :) 23:29:57 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: but what do you mean? I seriously don't see how licensing can be any difference in either inclusion externally or internally 23:30:01 <TrueBrain> (can there be a license difference?) 23:31:11 <Eddi|zuHause> certainly there can be differences in license (with some limitations) 23:31:33 <Zuu> From my point of view, an AI would not need to have a compatible license to use an AI library. A GS on the other hand would need to have GPL2 in order to use a library that states that it is GLP2. 23:31:52 <TrueBrain> Zuu: for that we invented LGPL :) 23:31:58 <TrueBrain> all libraries should be LGPL tbh 23:32:09 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't LGPL "deprecated"? 23:32:30 <Zuu> All libraries appear to be GPL2-v2 (except one) according to bananas. 23:32:33 <TrueBrain> no clue; you cannot license a library under GPLv2 without going into a shitload of trouble (dll-like libraries I then talk about) 23:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> but LGPL is actually a good example. you can easily "link to" an LGPL license from a non-gpl program, but if you inline it into your program, you must re-release the whole program as (L)GPL 23:37:22 <Zuu> Does usage of a squirrel script in OpenTTD cause it to become a compiled binary that with a code change could be distributed to MP clients? Then server owners wolud need to supply the source code of their scripts if they inline (L)GPL code :-D 23:38:14 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 23:38:20 <Zuu> Not that they would care even if it might be technically possible to get to a such point. 23:38:39 <__ln__> GPL doesn't require releasing changes of something being used as server. 23:39:02 <Zuu> Yep 23:39:19 <Zuu> Unless it is possible to conclude that the server distributes it in binary form. 23:39:37 <Zuu> which I don't think is possible with GS in its current form. 23:39:47 <TrueBrain> ugh, reading those things always make me realise how less I care about licenses :D Hihi :) (sorry, it always makes me sad, all those licenses .. why cant you just write what your intentions are, and people keep to that? Sad world :() 23:40:00 <TrueBrain> Zuu: GS are _not_ distributed to clients 23:40:29 <Zuu> So we can only hope that enough people will publish their GS scripts. 23:40:38 <TrueBrain> like with AIs, yes 23:40:46 <TrueBrain> with any modification to OpenTTD, yes 23:41:46 <TrueBrain> like with Luukland, it is also not a bad thing 23:41:50 <TrueBrain> sure, sharing is more fun and honest 23:41:55 <TrueBrain> but it is also perfectly fine not to 23:41:57 <TrueBrain> what ever makes you happy 23:42:03 <TrueBrain> that is what a Free world is ;) 23:42:07 <TrueBrain> your freedom to share .. or not :) 23:42:15 <Zuu> yep 23:42:35 <TrueBrain> and don't get me wrong, I love you more if you share .. but meh .. not sharing .. I can see reasons not to :) 23:43:02 <TrueBrain> I wouldn't want to share my AWESOME towngrowth algorithm with full real life feedback, which makes you an awesome feeling when playing on my servers :) 23:43:12 <TrueBrain> (just making words up as I go) 23:43:37 * Hirundo feels readme.txt line 623 needs updating 23:43:40 <TrueBrain> and because Luukland tends to take chatlogs out of context, to be clear: this is not in reference to luukland, just something I can see people doing. And I like it :) 23:43:55 <TrueBrain> Hirundo: hehehe :D 23:44:07 <TrueBrain> doing 1 project doesn't make you less retired :) 23:44:29 <TrueBrain> (nor less retarded :P) 23:45:20 <Eddi|zuHause> but possibly more tired 23:45:22 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23375 /trunk/ (readme.txt src/misc_gui.cpp): -Change: that name I haven't used for several years. Let it die out now finally, please? 23:45:52 <Zuu> TrueLight? ;-) 23:46:12 <TrueBrain> right, only 20 patches for NoGo :) 23:46:22 <Zuu> Great job TrueBrain! 23:46:40 <Eddi|zuHause> 20 minutes to buffalo 23:47:02 <TrueBrain> rather happy the squirrel framework could grow out to something this universal :) 23:47:08 <Eddi|zuHause> (that probably means nothing to non-germans) 23:47:14 <TrueBrain> nope, it does not 23:47:24 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:48:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a poem about a guy called "John Maynard" who steers a passenger boat across lake erie, and fire breaks out 23:49:04 <Eddi|zuHause> in the poem he gets all people (except himself) to the shore 23:49:30 <Eddi|zuHause> it's allegedly written after a real incident, but that kinda happened totally different 23:49:34 <TrueBrain> to come back to prefixes, for me atm it feels better to have them separate, because it will make helping people out much much easier. In general you have to consider users stupid, and support is easier if things are not ambigious :) 23:50:17 <Eddi|zuHause> you could consider the prefix only for classes which have different behaviour 23:51:23 <TrueBrain> exactly, and that is what we have done :D 23:51:23 <Eddi|zuHause> random question: are there default parameters or function overloading in squirrel? 23:51:37 <TrueBrain> default params I believe so 23:51:40 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-28-138-185.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:51:44 <TrueBrain> overloading I think I was told it doesnt exist 23:51:52 <TrueBrain> not sure .. I dont really write in Squirrel :D 23:51:54 <TrueBrain> (sorry :P) 23:52:09 <Zuu> Or perhaps provide also a general prefix "API" only available to libraries in case GS gains libraries? 23:52:28 <Zuu> Thoguh, I guess that will not work due to the shared scope thing. 23:53:08 <TrueBrain> and Eddi|zuHause, having a mixed prefix would confuse the fuck out of people :P So I very much rather have 1 prefix for 1 type :) 23:53:15 <TrueBrain> simple and easy to follow for people 23:53:18 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: what's the difference in functionality between AIMap and GSMap then? 23:53:21 <Zuu> overloading doesn't exist as far as I'm aware. 23:53:53 <TrueBrain> regarding libraries ... I don't know. It is not an easy question or task 23:54:03 <TrueBrain> if you want 1 library for both AI and GS, there is a shitload of problems 23:54:07 <TrueBrain> (both in support, as code-wise) 23:54:19 <TrueBrain> a general BuildStation does something different for AIs than for GSes 23:54:24 <TrueBrain> to just name a silly one 23:54:33 <z-MaTRiX> hi 23:54:34 <TrueBrain> it won't be easy to write a 'general' library 23:54:41 <TrueBrain> which makes support hard, and gives a lot of questions 23:54:48 <Zuu> Inded, a common prefix will not solve all problems. 23:54:49 <TrueBrain> to have a library for both AI and GS .. well .. that is not optimal too 23:55:26 <Zuu> And I would probably only aim to port the fundamental parts of SuperLib to GS for now. Eg. Tile, Direction, Helpers. 23:55:54 <Zuu> Not the high level parts that would in much higher degree run into differences. 23:55:57 <TrueBrain> yeah, and we really should take a look at some of them; it was suggested some should be integrated in the API (I already said that I think? Hmm) 23:56:40 <Zuu> You said that earlier tonight 23:56:55 <TrueBrain> a library like Eddi|zuHause ... well .. if I se all (ahum) the libraries currently available on BaNaNaS, I think that would be one of the few (Except for the pathfinders?) that would be good to have for both scripting parts 23:57:01 <TrueBrain> but I rarely see such libraries 23:57:07 <TrueBrain> most people already integrate it in their AI 23:57:08 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:27 <TrueBrain> 13 libraries on BaNaNaS 23:57:35 <TrueBrain> 6 of them I wrote at introduction 23:58:08 <Zuu> And I probably wrote the one with most lines of code ;-) 23:58:24 <TrueBrain> so one can even debate if libaries should be there (at all) :P 23:58:43 <TrueBrain> of course they do, as the pathfinders for one are epic (hehe) 23:59:03 <TrueBrain> and yeah Zuu, you are one of the few who really wants to share his work like that :) 23:59:09 <TrueBrain> (which is awesome, for the record :)) 23:59:32 <Zuu> I think they have been useful, just that it could have been more libraries out there. I still wait for someone to make a Rail library :-) 23:59:56 <TrueBrain> so as you can see Eddi|zuHause, it is not a simple question, and not a simple: it would be bad