Log for #openttd on 15th December 2011:
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00:25:31  <kais58> anyone got a decent basic set of grf's I could put on my server that wouldn't scare away new players?
00:26:01  <Yexo> OpenGFX+
00:31:43  <kais58> I can only see industries roadvehicles trains and tress for opengfx+ in the downloader, is that right?
00:48:38  <Yexo> yes, there is also OpenGFX+Landscape and OpenGFX+Airports, but those require a nightly version of OpenTTD
00:50:01  <Eddi|zuHause> "requires nightly" is certainly not fitting the "don't scare away" proposition :p
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00:52:25  <kais58> yeah, I'm building our server to match the version in the fedora repo as it changes which is 1.3 currently as that's what our desktops run, so no chance of running nightlies :)
00:52:57  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, they have a version from the future? :p
00:53:19  <kais58> 1.1.3...
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04:17:03  <Elukka>
04:17:07  <Elukka> a slight incongruity between the size of the locomotives and coaches
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07:30:00  <planetmaker> moin
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07:57:29  <dihedral> good morning
07:57:31  <appe> Elukka: how cute
07:58:44  <appe>
07:58:46  <appe> it's a nice one
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08:32:51  <appe>
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08:41:43  <Elukka> ...
08:42:33  <Elukka> the i-have-issues-with-human-sexuality-and-i-wanna-make-my-denial-law -bill
08:42:47  <appe> yeah
08:42:53  <appe> i think its horrid
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09:03:13  <peter1138> that's 8 months old
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09:05:37  <appe> im finding it hard to find new info about it
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09:34:54  <peter1138> hmm, pikka's level crossings have no signs/lights/barriers :S
09:41:03  <planetmaker> those make lot of work, if you want to cater for left and right side traffic, open and closed state, snowy and non-snowy state
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09:46:47  <peter1138> simple lights don't
10:05:45  <fjb|tab> Moin
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12:22:14  <Nite> Hi
12:22:47  <fjb|tab> Moin Nite.
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13:14:13  <Eddi|zuHause> statistics of the day: "men with children work longer than men without children"
13:17:48  <appe> does the test imply wether or not unemployed is accounted for?
13:18:11  <appe> most fathers do need a job to continue being a father.
13:18:47  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: logic. men w ith children no longer wants to fuck his wife. Logic.
13:19:49  <__ln__> or: children make work less efficient, so it takes longer.
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13:21:34  <TrueBrain> after a child you lost parts of your brain?
13:27:38  <fjb|tab> TrueBrain: I don't see the logic there.
13:28:00  <TrueBrain> fjb|tab: how many children do you have? :P
13:30:27  <fjb|tab> Depends if you count my own or the children of my girlfriends. ;-)
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13:33:44  <fjb|tab> Moines glx.
13:34:02  <fjb|tab> Moin
13:35:07  <fjb|tab> Strange auto correction...
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13:50:43  <Amis> Hello o/
13:51:08  <Amis> I was wondering if it's possible to lower the rate at what the game places transmitters all over the map or at least turn it off?
13:51:34  <Yexo> no
13:51:42  <Yexo> you can enable the magic bulldozer and remove them that way
13:52:54  <Amis> But the problem is that each time I generate a map it's all ugly when zoomed out because there are transmitters all over the place
13:53:04  <Amis> It's plain ugly and there are unnaturally too much of em
13:54:38  <XeryusTC> if you live in a country where you have multiple mobile network operators then you'll notice that there are not too much in openttd ;)
13:55:17  <Amis> Pic related:
13:55:49  <Yexo> that map looks too empty anyway :p
13:55:49  <XeryusTC> and you can also make them transparent if you find them ugly
13:56:02  <Amis> Yexo, I like playing on huge map with big distances
13:57:01  <planetmaker> given the size of typical towns that does not look like many transmitters
13:58:07  <Amis> I guess I'll just use the rock newgrf if there's no option to remove it
13:58:16  <Amis> Btw, are there any year limit for lighthouses?
13:58:18  <Amis> I don't have any
14:00:07  <Yexo> they're only build near the edges of the map and IIRC also only if there is water nearby
14:01:45  <planetmaker> hm, near map edges only? I thought water vicinity was the only requirement. But granted, I didn't look at that piece of code so far
14:03:45  <Amis> Hmmm
14:03:55  <Amis> Now that's something I would also like to be changeable
14:04:22  <Eddi|zuHause> you can make a newobject grf
14:04:27  <Amis> Hahh
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14:08:37  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, but that won't change the com tower
14:10:22  <Amis> I wonder if an intelligent newgrf could be made that detects "peeks" in the generated landscape and places transmitters on the top of em
14:10:43  <planetmaker> objects are not auto-placed on world generation
14:11:04  <planetmaker> other than lighthouses and transmitters
14:11:50  <Amis> That means: ...?
14:13:51  <Amis> Transmitters on top of hills would at least make sense
14:18:55  <Belugas> hello
14:19:52  <planetmaker> arent't they on top of hills?
14:21:07  <Amis> planetmaker, nope
14:21:19  <Amis> I mean, not in OpenTTD
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14:22:11  * Belugas starts mumbling about discussion getting too RL oriented...
14:23:09  <Amis> ~.~
14:28:02  <planetmaker> Amis, I'm quite sure they're not in valleys. Looking at your map: it has so little topography that height hardly matters
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14:28:59  <fjb|tab> Moin Belugas.
14:29:58  <Amis> planetmaker, but I could image a newgrf that has a "roughness" slider for bigger, more smoother maps
14:30:23  <XeryusTC> s/slider/parameter/
14:30:48  <Amis> That
14:32:48  <planetmaker> I can imagine many things. But maps topography is not NewGRF-influenced.
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14:33:30  <kleinerdrache> hi there
14:33:35  <planetmaker> And yes, the newgame settings have parameters to adjust smoothness and size of features
14:33:39  <planetmaker> hi kleinerdrache
14:33:47  <planetmaker> do you breath fire?
14:34:47  <kleinerdrache> I have a railway station and a haven next to each other, and it says that can be connected with the ctrl key, but this doesn't work, how can I do that?
14:34:56  <kleinerdrache> both have their own names
14:37:41  <planetmaker> you can't connect existing stations
14:37:56  <planetmaker> you can only connect via ctrl new parts to an existing station
14:37:57  <kleinerdrache> planetmaker what now?
14:38:09  <planetmaker> even when they would not touch
14:38:40  <kleinerdrache> thats bad, but they are so close together.  Maybe I build a new one next to it, move all by ship and then remove the first one?
14:39:12  <planetmaker> you can just delete one and rebuild it by using ctrl+click and then attach it to the other existing one
14:39:38  <planetmaker> just forget about the existing cargo. More hassle than gain ;-)
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14:42:50  <Amis> I had much trouble with reconfiguring all vehicles orders' when moving em to other stations till I found out about shared orders
14:42:55  <Amis> \o/
14:48:14  <fjb|tab> Sharing makes your life easy.
15:02:40  <peter1138> do you need an undo knob?
15:06:42  <fjb|tab> Psssssssst!
15:14:02  <Belugas> <PLAY AND WATCH> button?
15:15:23  <fjb|tab> That is called public server.
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15:25:06  <Belugas> good one :)
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15:32:21  <nitraat> hi all, hope someone here who knows the OpenTTD source well can help me out with a question
15:32:58  <nitraat> how is the number of days in transit calculated? especially with regards to waiting in a station and transferred cargo
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15:43:26  <TrueBrain> from moment it came into existance till you deliver it
15:43:32  <TrueBrain> kinda the most obvious one :)
15:43:58  <peter1138> not entirely true :)
15:46:26  <TrueBrain> odd, I cannot find anything on the wiki which specifies the term
15:46:28  <TrueBrain> it only uses it
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17:08:12  <Belugas> hoo..  Chirac kapput
17:08:18  <Belugas> no one is untouchable!
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17:36:42  <appe> chirac, that french duder?
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17:43:11  <Belugas> duder?
17:43:20  <Belugas> watzdat?
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17:51:00  <Rubidium> nitraat: every 185 ticks (default) the cargo is in a vehicle it is aged
17:55:35  <appe> Belugas: never mind.
17:58:08  <Belugas> ah
17:58:42  * Belugas enters the Kingdom of Ignorance
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18:05:09  <peter1138> what's more likely to see fruitition?
18:05:36  <peter1138> a) transport empire b) p1sim c) openlocomotion
18:06:00  <peter1138> *fruition
18:06:03  <SnowDragon> None
18:06:47  <Alberth> a) seems to make some progress at least
18:06:58  <Belugas> a) is the one with the more code written, i'd say a). But the dev team is... dunno... not... open?
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18:07:21  <Alberth> although 'yay another window' gets a bit tedious :)
18:07:39  <Alberth> the team is just 1 person afaik
18:07:54  <Rubidium> Alberth: but so is the 32bpp thread ;)
18:08:36  <Alberth> 32bpp may be sooner finished that TE :)
18:08:38  <Rubidium> just for the 32bpp thread there are still some 20k sprites to be drawn, and I guess the amount of windows in TE will be two orders of magnitude smaller
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18:09:46  <Alberth> windows is just interface, the real stuff is behind that
18:13:10  <Belugas> mmm... Asus Transformer Prime delayed to the 20th of december :(
18:13:14  <Belugas> bad...
18:13:19  <Belugas> one toy less under the tree :S
18:14:10  <fjb|tab> Alberth: But you need an interface to make things usable.
18:14:44  <Rubidium> fjb|tab: not always
18:14:54  <Alberth> fjb|tab: yes, but it is not the primary problem of the program imho
18:15:00  <fjb|tab> Belugas: But it will be cheaper next year.
18:15:11  <Rubidium> e.g. we need zoomed in sprites to make the zoom in (more) useable ;)
18:15:52  <Belugas> fjb|tab: agreed.  But we'll have 1% tax rate increase by then
18:16:47  <Alberth> fjb|tab: that is, it is relatively easy to create yet another window, especially the kind of windows he is doing. It does not add to the core engine however
18:17:45  <fjb|tab> Rubidium: I was speaking about interfaces in general, not that 32bbp stuff which I don't care for.
18:18:41  <Terkhen> hello
18:20:05  <fjb|tab> Belugas: But it will be more than 1% cheaper in a few weeks.
18:20:48  <fjb|tab> Moin Terkhen .
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18:25:17  <Belugas> hey Terkhen :)
18:25:47  <Belugas> fjb|tab, when I see the rate at which they are getting cheaper, i'm not sure i'll have a good deal before summer :(
18:25:53  <Belugas> I WANT MY TOY NOW!!!
18:26:04  <Belugas> ooops... sorry dear.. OUR TOY
18:27:38  <fjb|tab> Belugas: The price will stay high as long as nobody can buy it.
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18:32:04  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23519 /trunk/src/script/api/doxygen_filter.awk: -Change: do not export enum values in the AI documentation
18:32:43  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23520 /trunk/src/script/api/script_engine.hpp: -Fix-ish: wrong @param name causing missing documentation
18:32:52  * fjb|tab will have to play with an Archos 80 G9 until then.
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18:35:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i find it worrying that patents have degraded to a system how one can most effectively destroy the other guy's christmas sales.
18:36:31  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23521 /trunk/ (17 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: use the actual enum values from the 'core' in the API when they refer to the in-game values in the cases where that is possible and sensible
18:41:37  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23522 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt korean.txt unfinished/urdu.txt):
18:41:37  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:41:37  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: catalan - 19 changes by arnau
18:41:37  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: korean - 22 changes by junho2813, telk5093
18:41:37  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: urdu - 1 changes by haider
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18:42:32  <Belugas> fjb|tab: WE do not like to wait :)
18:42:46  <Belugas> Archos 80? is it good?
18:43:02  <Belugas> "will have to play.. until then"  you want the prime too?
18:44:27  <fjb|tab> Belugas: waiting for the prime too. The Archos is ok.
18:44:35  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23523 /trunk/src/lang/korean.txt: -Fix: language compilation error
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19:08:10  <fjb|tab> Belugas: The display of the Archos is not the best and the case feels weak. But it is fast. It still has somet trouble playing HD videos with a high bit rate. And you have to buy an additional license to play mpeg videos with the build in player.
19:09:26  <Belugas> yurk...
19:09:42  * Belugas hopes prime will be as good as they say :)
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19:11:15  <fjb|tab> Three prime will be a lot faster, but the Archos is cheap and gets constant updates.
19:11:28  <fjb|tab> The
19:11:41  <Eddi|zuHause> "firefox now too big to compile under win32"
19:12:14  <fjb|tab> Oh oh

19:12:57  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently the "profile guided optimization" linker phase exceeds 3GB ram
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19:16:11  <Belugas> yeah... 4 core cpu will help indeed :) plus the battery life and all.
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19:17:55  <kleinerdrache> is it possible to get an overview over railway stations to see how much things/passengers are waiting?
19:18:26  <Eddi|zuHause> click on them?
19:18:49  <Eddi|zuHause> the station list has small icons displaying how much is waiting as well
19:19:37  <fjb|tab> Yes, just click at the stations button in the toolbar.
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19:20:45  <kleinerdrache> thanks fjb|tab
19:20:50  <andythenorth> hello
19:21:43  <fjb|tab> Moin andythenorth.
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19:48:59  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23524 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_core.cpp ai_scanner.cpp ai_scanner.hpp): -Codechange: move the name of the scanner to a level deeper
19:50:38  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23525 /trunk/src/ (20 files in 3 dirs):
19:50:38  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Codechange: make Window::flags4 WindowFlags instead of uint16, with only values known in WindowFlags (and move out 2 timers to their own variable)
19:50:38  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Codechange: rename Window::flags4 to Window::flags
19:50:38  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Codechange: move some non-inline functions from .hpp to .cpp
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20:42:57  <lappro> hi all
20:43:31  <Zuu> Hello lappro
20:43:43  <fjb|tab> Moin lappro.
20:44:08  <lappro> wow wouldn't have thought the chat of this originally old game would be this active :O
20:45:17  <lappro> just came here after seeing yogscast vid :P though i would discover some ancient stuff, its quite the opposite
20:45:30  <V453000> you obviously do not realize what openttd offers :p
20:45:33  <V453000> welcome
20:46:21  <lappro> anything important i need to know? or should i just pioneer my way through the community/game/something i dont know yet?
20:46:40  <V453000> discovering on your own is best I think :)
20:47:07  * Zuu agrees
20:47:40  <lappro> yea 1 question, i couldnt find a server file or something so i can run my own server for friends im going to invite?
20:48:18  <Zuu> You don't need a separte OpenTTD version for that.
20:48:31  <Zuu> You need to set up your network properly however
20:48:32  <lappro> its build into the client?
20:48:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, every client can act as server
20:49:03  <Eddi|zuHause> just start a multiplayer game
20:49:04  <lappro> thx for the info
20:50:51  <Zuu> @ports
20:50:51  <DorpsGek> Zuu: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
20:51:26  <Zuu> For portforwarding see above.
20:51:34  <lappro> thx :D
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20:56:09  <lappro> bye zuu?
21:00:14  *** Zuu [] has joined #openttd
21:00:19  <Zuu> hello again :-)
21:01:22  <Zuu> Windows decided to screw up my keyboard input each time I pressed Alt GR until I forced it to work by switching keyboard layout back and forth. A reboot fixed that. :-)
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21:08:44  <lappro> is there a tutorial available?
21:08:49  <Zuu> Yes
21:08:58  <Zuu> Download TutorialAI
21:09:09  <Zuu> (from online content in the game)
21:09:22  <Zuu> Set it as AI opponent and start a new game.
21:10:10  <lappro> i can download that from within the game or do i have to download it from the site or something and put it in the game directory
21:10:29  <Zuu> Start the game and click on the lower left button in the menu.
21:10:39  <Zuu> It should say "online content" or similar.
21:11:00  <lappro> got it thanks
21:11:16  <lappro> i shall check it out tomorrow, bed time now :P
21:11:34  <lappro> bye all
21:11:35  <Zuu> That tutorial is a bit experimental. For longer tutorials, see the wiki or youtube.
21:12:10  <lappro> i will see if i understand it afterwards have to go now
21:12:14  <lappro> thx btw
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21:12:18  <Zuu> good night
21:23:16  <Terkhen> good night
21:31:17  * andythenorth -> bed
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21:34:17  <peter1138> greebling
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21:49:06  <Eddi|zuHause>
21:49:26  <Eddi|zuHause> if you like conspiracies :)
21:50:46  <V453000> nice one :D
21:52:20  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23526 /trunk/src/ (37 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: unify cargos vs cargoes
21:52:44  <Eddi|zuHause> car goes wrrmm wrrmm
21:53:52  <TWerkhoven[l]> mine goes putputputput
21:53:56  <TWerkhoven[l]> :p
21:55:49  <TrueBrain> mine goes zoef
21:56:26  <Eddi|zuHause> what's cargös anyway?
21:57:53  <frosch123> a relative of cargÞs
21:58:14  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23527 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: unify colo(u)r as far as it goes
21:58:32  <Eddi|zuHause> (my german mind is conditioned to do s/oe/ö/g)
21:59:04  <frosch123> oh, of course there is also cargœs
21:59:43  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: so you read gös all day?
21:59:45  *** Neon [] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.]
21:59:53  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: then read it as cargoës :p
22:00:22  <Eddi|zuHause> which brings us back to cars :)
22:00:29  <frosch123> i love my compose key ♥
22:00:33  *** Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:01:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i rather like dead keys
22:01:21  <frosch123> dead keys are the death of programming or so
22:01:33  <Eddi|zuHause> or let's say i've gotten used to them
22:02:13  <Eddi|zuHause> the only relevant dead key for programming is ^
22:02:27  <Eddi|zuHause> and you quickly learn to type [^][space]
22:02:34  <frosch123> there is also `
22:02:46  <frosch123> and ~
22:02:56  <frosch123> though maybe the latter is usually not dead
22:02:58  <Eddi|zuHause> ~ is not a dead key (usually)
22:03:08  <Eddi|zuHause> and ` is not used in many languages
22:03:22  <frosch123> sh :)
22:03:34  <Eddi|zuHause> use $() :)
22:03:37  <frosch123> though you can use xargs in some case
22:03:50  <Eddi|zuHause> that's better, because it can be nested
22:04:17  <Eddi|zuHause> what's usually more troublesome for programming is the placing of {[]} on german keyboards
22:04:27  <Alberth> and ' and "
22:05:17  <frosch123> or searching in vi an man :p
22:05:24  <frosch123> *and
22:06:10  * Alberth consistently fails to remember that possibility :p
22:06:25  <frosch123> searching in man?
22:06:42  <frosch123> it's the only way to use the bash manual :p
22:06:52  <frosch123> (well, if there is actually any)
22:09:15  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
22:10:20  <fjb|tab> frosch123: Use tcsh.
22:11:03  *** kleinerdrache [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:11:44  <frosch123> i use both tcsh and bash, that's why i am continuously failing at both :p
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22:18:11  <appe> evening
22:18:14  <appe> scones, anyone?
22:19:14  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23528 /trunk/ (111 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: move widget enums to widgets/NNN_type.h
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22:50:36  <V453000> ^^
22:54:43  <virrpanna> nyaa~~
22:55:43  <Eddi|zuHause> might need a few adjustments to lighting etc.
22:56:31  <V453000> nah, true colour :D
22:57:21  <Eddi|zuHause> and you should have different wagon sprite offsets depending on position_in_vehid_chain and motion_counter
22:57:41  <V453000> yes, this is just the first version :)
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23:06:07  <frosch123> nightoes
23:06:11  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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23:09:36  <Immy> Hi there, I was wondering if it is possible to change the "victory"/"win" conditions in the multiplayer mode of the game.
23:10:35  <dotwaffle> silly question: if a train is at 100% full of passengers, but won't leave a station, and has any orders, but specifically not "full load" - any ideas how to "fix" it so it will leave without hitting skip?
23:15:11  <planetmaker> dotwaffle: most likely: improve your signaling
23:15:42  <dotwaffle> planetmaker: signalling?
23:15:56  <planetmaker> or, if the train carries other cargo, you use full load all and that cargo is not yet 100% loaded
23:15:58  <dotwaffle> planetmaker: sorry, should have made it clearer, it says loading/unloading
23:16:55  <dotwaffle> it's just a floss with 9 passenger cars, all full with 40 pax
23:17:22  <dotwaffle> i.e. max 360 pax, all filled.
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23:19:35  <dotwaffle> what's strange is the order isn't ful load!
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23:20:57  <planetmaker> dotwaffle: well. Needs more than words, I guess :-) i.e. a savegame
23:21:20  <planetmaker> Immy: not quite (yet)
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23:23:29  <dotwaffle> planetmaker: - much appreciated!
23:24:15  <dotwaffle> and yes, i suck at rail planning ;)
23:24:32  <planetmaker> everyone has his own style
23:24:56  <dotwaffle> i don't really have a style, more of a desire for lazyness!
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23:28:56  <dotwaffle> planetmaker: it's quite a headscratcher!
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23:32:08  <Eddi|zuHause> lazyness is also a style! :p
23:33:27  <dotwaffle> =)
23:33:29  <planetmaker> dotwaffle: I honestly don't know.
23:33:44  <planetmaker> The train should just leave the station. It does if you tell it to skip orders
23:34:05  <planetmaker> interestingly the others do
23:34:11  <dotwaffle> planetmaker: exactly. it's *very weird*
23:34:58  <planetmaker> oh, no
23:35:03  <planetmaker> You gave it a timetable
23:35:11  <planetmaker> and told it to wait in the station for 316 days
23:36:08  <planetmaker> go to the orders screen of the train and click 'timetable' (upper right)
23:37:38  <planetmaker> click then on the first order and choose 'clear time'
23:37:45  <planetmaker> ^ dotwafflew
23:39:48  <dotwaffle> got rid of timetable, pressed skip twice, still happens :S
23:40:50  <dotwaffle> (last time i ever press autofill...)
23:41:34  <dotwaffle> it moves! and i have absolutely no idea what i hit! =)
23:41:44  <dotwaffle> thanks a bunch, i appreciate it a lot.
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23:42:06  <dotwaffle> i *thnk* i hit reset late counter
23:42:49  <planetmaker> of course it moves somewhen...
23:44:50  <dotwaffle> ah, but when train 27 (who shares orders) gets down there... IT WAITS! I have a feeling I'm just being a numpty and wasting your time ;)
23:45:24  <Eddi|zuHause> just reset the counter there as well, it'll sort out eventually
23:46:03  <planetmaker> yeah. Resetting all time table stuff does the trick
23:46:06  <dotwaffle> yeah, it did that. just need to find if i "experimente" with any other timetables ;)
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23:57:50  <TrueBrain> building NoGo 1.1 :D Whiiee :D :)
23:59:16  <Eddi|zuHause> it always scares me when removing random lines doesn't change the behaviour of the program...

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