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00:00:28 <TrueBrain> you know what should scare you? http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/nogo/docs/classGSWindow.html :D 00:00:53 <Eddi|zuHause> GUI _always_ scares me... 00:10:02 <fjb|tab> OpenGL scares me. 00:11:54 <TrueBrain> a mirror scares me 00:15:07 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-7-150.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 00:17:02 <fjb|tab> Did you fall down one of your climbing walls? :-) 00:18:11 *** nitraat [~win3000@52496152.cm-4-2b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 00:21:12 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-102-63.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:21:18 *** Immy [Immy@78.86.212.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:22:50 *** Immy [~Immy@78.86.212.81] has joined #openttd 00:25:16 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-018-179.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 00:45:48 *** nitraat [~win3000@52496152.cm-4-2b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:46:19 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 00:49:00 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:49:05 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> is that just my impression or did cets compile time increase even more? 01:04:27 *** Immsys [Immy@78.86.212.81] has joined #openttd 01:04:40 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@2a02:1680:0:1:2:1:1:6e01] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:05:40 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-237-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:07:43 *** Immy [~Immy@78.86.212.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:09:27 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-90-111.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 01:11:33 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@borealis.jontysewell.net] has joined #openttd 01:11:58 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-103-48.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:46:41 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-128-134.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 01:50:47 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-90-111.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:53:35 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 02:11:35 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.172.252] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:25:11 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:89bd:2969:5917:c0f7] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:30:34 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:39:01 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:40:29 *** SnowDragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-20-40.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: SnowDragon] 03:14:17 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-128-134.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:21:38 *** MrSieb [~01Mr@chello062178128065.5.13.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:38:52 *** RetiredNavyVet [~Gary_n_Sa@cpe-76-88-70-139.san.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:49:42 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 03:54:23 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 03:54:24 *** DDR_ is now known as DDR 04:00:37 *** RetiredNavyVet [~Gary_n_Sa@cpe-76-88-70-139.san.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 04:13:00 *** dlr365 [~Doug@d142-59-83-184.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 04:14:52 *** TomyLobo [~foo@p4FC22186.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:57:05 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest20573 04:57:05 *** Guest20573 [~frank@p5DDFDFF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:57:06 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDFF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:24:51 *** dlr365 [~Doug@d142-59-83-184.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:27:32 *** rickytaylor26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:52:13 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73946.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:35 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73C0F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:16:59 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 06:23:36 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has joined #openttd 06:25:54 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:29:26 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.209.121] has joined #openttd 06:30:54 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop_] 07:02:42 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B34F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:06:11 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:14:50 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.209.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:38:21 *** SnowDragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-20-40.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:57:38 <planetmaker> moin 07:57:39 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 08:04:10 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:15:47 <dihedral> oi 08:17:18 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:17:21 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:47:07 *** RoadRunner [4b5e39ee@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:48:20 *** RoadRunner [4b5e39ee@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [] 09:06:13 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-84-248.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:19:33 *** SnowDragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-20-40.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27:05 * peter1138 greebles dihedral 09:31:46 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:42:08 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:49:42 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:17:41 <fjb|tab> Moin 10:37:08 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111115183541]] 10:45:25 <dihedral> "A greeble or nurnie is a small piece of detailing added to break up the surface of an object" 10:45:32 <dihedral> ok peter1138 if that makes you feel better .... 10:47:11 <peter1138> 2cc bug: 10:47:28 <peter1138> allowed cargo classes 0000000000000001 10:47:36 <peter1138> disallowed cargo classes 1111111111111011 10:47:52 <peter1138> = pax disappearing 10:47:59 <peter1138> i'll post it in their thread :p 10:57:35 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: Sla Mutant Co-Op for Renegade - coming back soon] 11:03:29 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-78-124.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:21:19 <fjb|tab> That is the automatic pax reduction feature. 11:26:54 *** kkmic [~chatzilla@91.199.199.6] has joined #openttd 11:27:22 <peter1138> :) 11:32:45 <Alberth> kkmic: hai, wouldn't a new WT be great, for all NewGRFs ? 11:33:21 <planetmaker> it would :-) 11:33:30 <kkmic> I don't have knowledge about the inner workings of the translator and the newgrf system 11:33:50 <kkmic> what would be needed in the next version? 11:34:22 <planetmaker> well. The important constraints for the translator is to produce language files of OpenTTD. To offer new strings for translations as is done now. To make change history visible 11:34:38 <planetmaker> To search in the strings to make it easier to ensure some consistency for translations 11:35:11 <planetmaker> i.e. search for 'height level' and see how it was translated in other strings 11:35:16 <kkmic> and keep a version history of each string? 11:35:30 <planetmaker> yes, that's done currently. 11:35:42 <Alberth> in a version control system mostly 11:35:49 <planetmaker> but that's also done in the svn, of course or could be extracted there. Not sure whether it's (also) in a translation DB 11:35:57 <kkmic> I haven't seen it from my end.. I'm just a translator :) 11:36:42 <planetmaker> Improvement over current system... http://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?project=4&do=index&switch=1 <-- look for bugs related to WT3 11:37:13 <planetmaker> of course the system must also validate all strings against correct syntax (e.g. case, gender, parameters) 11:37:19 <kkmic> No, I was asking if the WT keps an independent version history for each string... sometime older versions contains hints and such 11:37:26 <planetmaker> I don't know 11:37:37 <planetmaker> but it can always get that from svn history 11:37:52 <planetmaker> if it doesn't do its own accounting. Might even be better. 11:39:28 <kkmic> Should be in it's own database. It's faster. And it does not interfere with is being committed 11:39:43 <kkmic> *with what is being commited 11:40:40 <Alberth> TrueBrain had the idea to base everything on a REST architecture 11:41:13 <Alberth> so you can have clients downloading data, and uploading changes 11:42:00 <Alberth> if you add newgrf support, you are going to have a lot of entities with translations in several languages 11:42:50 <planetmaker> kkmic: it will need updating itself then with the svn 11:43:05 <planetmaker> the svn is the authorative instance - and the svn can change stuff 11:43:17 <planetmaker> in principle in every language. 11:44:22 <Alberth> to give you an idea of the projects side: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/lang/english.txt is the master file 11:44:26 <planetmaker> kkmic: what would be a good addition is a "discussion" type of thing related to single strings 11:45:11 <Alberth> it relates names (at the left) with text (at the right). The translations are all in the same directory (or in lang/unfinished) 11:46:10 <Alberth> newgrf do something similar but at a smaller scale, eg FIRS: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/show/lang 11:54:46 <planetmaker> newgrfs have the additional difficulty: you'd need to store strings by version 11:55:39 <kkmic> Yeah, a discussion/comments would be a good addition 11:56:07 <kkmic> I think this could be easily added to the current architecture 11:57:07 <planetmaker> Maybe. 11:57:49 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: what difficulties would be involved to get a "clone" of the WT3 machine into another VM for testing changes to a WT? 11:58:10 <kkmic> How does the current WT gets the strings list? 11:58:16 <planetmaker> from the svn 11:58:19 <planetmaker> I assume 11:58:24 <kkmic> Directly from the SVN? Is the process automatic? 11:58:44 <Alberth> part of a post-commit hook would be my guess 11:59:27 <kkmic> Also, does it keep an internal copy of the data? Or everything is based on updates/commits to the svn? From the changelog, I guess it's the former 12:00:54 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: well, first off, we are out of RAM atm :p So that is a huge difficulty :) And I have no clue what you mean with: "for testing changes to a WT". Which 'a' you refer to? 12:01:10 <Alberth> it builds a new text-file for every language afaik, which gets pushed to subversion (who then makes a diff) 12:02:25 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: my idea is to offer a clone of the current way WT works on another VM which does not commit to svn. But which allows to test stuff 12:02:42 <planetmaker> and which allows then interested parties to try their ideas of what would work 12:02:47 <TrueBrain> WT3.0 should not be developed on, so that would be a bad idea 12:02:52 <planetmaker> It must not be on our machine 12:03:07 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: you say that. But let people find out that themselves. 12:03:26 <planetmaker> And see how it works. On a live system (just w/o feedback to svn) 12:03:47 <TrueBrain> I have no interest 'wasting' my time in that, sorry :) 12:03:53 <planetmaker> ... 12:03:54 <TrueBrain> Making a clone alone would take me several hours 12:04:01 <TrueBrain> only for them to find out the code is unreadable 12:04:06 <TrueBrain> we have had this talk before, didn't we? :) 12:04:12 <planetmaker> no 12:04:23 <TrueBrain> I am pretty sure we did :D But that is not important :) 12:04:37 <Alberth> it is somewhere publically available? 12:04:41 <TrueBrain> Alberth: no 12:04:54 <planetmaker> that's the point. It's not documented anywhere how it interfaces, can interface and all this shit 12:05:01 <planetmaker> Thus the system itself is the only documentation 12:05:26 <planetmaker> And thus no-one can reasonably work or think about it anyway, except you and maybe Rubi who know the system architecture and interfaces in detail 12:05:31 <TrueBrain> well, I once had a subversion with WT3.1 in it, which has all the info 12:05:38 <TrueBrain> but that domain expired, well, got redirected 12:05:49 <TrueBrain> and I have no idea where the fuck I left the subversion :P 12:06:05 <peter1138> heh 12:06:08 <planetmaker> And thus the idea: get a clone. It has the necessary interfaces. Which then new stuff can used to get starting 12:06:14 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: it is unreasnoable to think that the WT3.0 source would give any insight :) 12:06:29 *** kkmic_ [~chatzilla@91.199.199.6] has joined #openttd 12:06:38 <planetmaker> I find it actually quite sad that you block *every* attempt by saying that wt3 is a dead end and won't even have anyone look at it 12:07:02 <planetmaker> and I'd leave the decision whether it's fruitful to interested people 12:07:07 <kkmic_> Internet failure. What did I missed? 12:07:13 <planetmaker> @logs 12:07:13 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 12:07:43 <kkmic_> thanks 12:07:46 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: the main issue is, that the interfaces are not clear. And they're in that WM 12:07:53 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: we really had this discussion before :D 12:08:24 <planetmaker> yes, and you kill every attempt by denying even a look at the current state :-( 12:08:26 <TrueBrain> and you know what the funny part is planetmaker? You never asked if I have documentation about WT, or if I can help out developing 12:08:27 <Alberth> can we not agree on some interface? 12:08:31 <TrueBrain> you keep blaming me I am blocking something 12:08:34 <TrueBrain> yet you never ask if I want to help? 12:09:21 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: you wanting to help or not is not the issue or question. I've no idea whether you want it or not. 12:09:21 <TrueBrain> and you know too planetmaker, you have no clue how the code is, looks like, how it is installed, and what is requires. So it is a bit odd you make all these assumptions on it 12:09:23 <TrueBrain> without asking 12:09:27 <planetmaker> Rcently you keep saying you have no time 12:09:36 <kkmic_> TrueBrain: is the current WT based on any public framework? Or is everything built "in house"? 12:09:46 *** kkmic [~chatzilla@91.199.199.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:09:46 <TrueBrain> kkmic_: written from scratch 12:09:52 *** kkmic_ is now known as kkmic 12:09:59 <Alberth> TrueBrain: what is the best way for kkmic to start? 12:10:11 <TrueBrain> Alberth: heavily depends on his abilities tbh 12:10:16 <TrueBrain> best would to make a design document first 12:10:23 <TrueBrain> collect what is needed for this new WT 12:10:28 <TrueBrain> what the demands are, constraints 12:10:32 <Alberth> goals 12:10:36 <kkmic> I need documentation regarding the interface with other systems 12:10:41 <TrueBrain> I did that for WT3.0, and it was really useful 12:10:58 <TrueBrain> of course you cannot implement everythng, but at least you can get a general idea and aim 12:11:13 <Alberth> kkmic: interfacing is not the big issue imho, you are communicating with text files, or patches 12:11:23 <kkmic> And we need to clearly establish the goals of the WT 12:11:42 <TrueBrain> there is a lot of documentation, bug reports, developers-documents about what a new WT should do 12:11:44 <Alberth> kkmic: that would be the first thing in the document imho :) 12:11:46 *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A1911F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:11:49 <TrueBrain> spread out atm, which is a bitch 12:11:59 <kkmic> Maybe, but why reinvent the wheel when I can use something that already works? 12:12:08 <TrueBrain> http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/wt3/ 12:12:14 <TrueBrain> very old document 12:12:28 <TrueBrain> kkmic: there is nothing atm that 'works' 12:12:42 <TrueBrain> WT3.0 is build wrong, sadly enough, and hooks into OpenTTD in ways that are not practicle 12:12:53 <Alberth> kkmic: im general TrueBrain knows what he is saying, so believe him when he says it is not readable :) 12:12:58 <kkmic> I had the impression that WT works for what i was intended to do 12:13:00 <TrueBrain> I have a framework for WT3.1, but I have no clue where the source is 12:13:19 <TrueBrain> also, ther eI noticed huge issues with svn and Python 12:13:26 <TrueBrain> but I believe there is a newer module which solves those issues 12:16:30 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B34F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:16:34 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 12:17:11 <TrueBrain> dihedral: do you have any clue where noaddedsuger pointed to? :P 12:19:19 <TrueBrain> lol; forgot I once wrote a CoucheDB version 12:19:22 <TrueBrain> that was fun :D 12:19:56 <TrueBrain> RoR version ... 12:22:08 <dihedral> TrueBrain, you mean wt3? ;-) 12:22:13 <dihedral> yep i know that 12:22:14 <TrueBrain> wt3.1, yes :) 12:22:18 <TrueBrain> you have an IP? 12:22:30 <dihedral> an? IP? 12:22:37 <dihedral> or the IP :-P 12:22:42 <TrueBrain> an IP it pointed to :P 12:22:54 <TrueBrain> I have no clue on which VPS I instaleld it :P 12:23:16 <dihedral> dig noaddedsugar.net? :-p 12:23:31 <TrueBrain> no, you changed it a few months (years?) ago back to yourself remember? 12:23:41 <kkmic> Hmm... in what language is WT written? 12:23:45 <TrueBrain> Python 12:23:53 <dihedral> 85.17.162.189 and 2001:1af8:4100:a000:1::21 12:24:02 <dihedral> i was thinking about it, but i never did 12:24:19 <TrueBrain> ah, lol :D 12:24:21 <Eddi|zuHause> anybody has a clue about a program that can repair video files if the header is missing? 12:24:24 <TrueBrain> and those IPs expired long ago :P 12:24:36 <dihedral> hehehe 12:24:44 <TrueBrain> but tnx dihedral 12:24:48 <dihedral> yeah - with the end of openttd.org at leaseweb 12:24:48 <kkmic> Well, since I only know PHP.... 12:25:04 <TrueBrain> ah; I did install it on the LW machine 12:25:06 <TrueBrain> hmm 12:26:41 <TrueBrain> dihedral: found it :D:D 12:26:59 <dihedral> congrats 12:27:07 <dihedral> you know - you could host it over at dev.openttdcoop.org 12:27:31 <planetmaker> that's what I wanted to suggest. 12:27:31 <TrueBrain> last changed: Jul 2009 12:27:41 <TrueBrain> it is one of my (many) failed attempts :P 12:27:43 <dihedral> i beat you to it, planetmaker ;-) 12:27:44 <kkmic> So, the question arises: Ho can I lend a hand if WT is built using Python and I can program in PHP? 12:27:54 <Alberth> build a new WT imho 12:28:00 <planetmaker> Playground. Experimenting ground. If something comes from it: wonderful. If not... 12:28:03 <planetmaker> so be it 12:28:16 <Alberth> and/or learn Python :) 12:28:21 <Alberth> it's a fun language :) 12:28:27 <dihedral> learn python - if you know php, you know you can learn programming languages, do not be scared of python 12:28:53 <planetmaker> whatever. I'll be happy to provide the infrastructure on the devzone 12:28:58 * dihedral should start the nightly server again :-P 12:29:00 <TrueBrain> I would advise against a WT in PHP; we have had that, the performance was rubbish :D (but it is just that: advise) 12:29:09 <kkmic> Anything can be made given enough time and resources. But then again I come to the reinvent the wheel question 12:29:47 <Alberth> kkmic: we have come to the conclusion that the current wheel will not fit in the car of tomorrow 12:30:06 <kkmic> TrueBrain: You mean the WT before the current version? Or was it another? 12:30:23 <planetmaker> we have WT3. There was a WT2 12:30:26 <TrueBrain> ugh, some basic background 12:30:30 <TrueBrain> we have had many WTs over the years 12:30:34 <TrueBrain> most noticable: WT2 12:30:45 <TrueBrain> written in PHP by MiHaMiX 12:30:49 <TrueBrain> worked for .. I think a year or 2, 3 12:30:52 <TrueBrain> did a great job 12:30:56 <TrueBrain> for that time even more 12:31:07 <TrueBrain> but there were some issues; style-wise it was a bit poor, and performance was bad 12:31:23 <TrueBrain> so I wrote WT3, based on Django (Python), to work inside our current website (also Django) 12:31:35 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-78-124.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:31:38 <TrueBrain> worked well till about a year ago I think? Then NML came and needed translation too 12:31:43 <TrueBrain> soon we have GS that needs translation too 12:31:53 <TrueBrain> and there is one huge bug in cases in WT3, which I cannot solve :( 12:32:06 <TrueBrain> The interface too is getting obsolete, and is in need for modern webtechniques 12:32:28 <TrueBrain> for example, WT3 was originally not written to work with UTF-8 12:32:33 <TrueBrain> to just name one of the sillyness :) 12:32:47 <TrueBrain> so since .. begin 2009, I have been trying to rewrite WT3, called WT3.1 12:32:52 <TrueBrain> in a way that it would work 12:33:04 <TrueBrain> sadly, I always been alone in programming it, and because of that it never finished 12:33:25 <dihedral> *sniff* 12:33:27 <TrueBrain> I have had one that was most promising, but Python+svn fucked me over, and I dropped it like a stone :) 12:33:32 <kkmic> The interface, as it is, works pretty well for me. 12:33:42 <TrueBrain> it works, sure; but it is old 12:33:45 <TrueBrain> believe 2007? 12:33:52 <TrueBrain> there are better, more modern ways to do things 12:33:55 <dihedral> younger 12:33:56 <TrueBrain> for example: jquery 12:33:58 <dihedral> 08 i believe 12:34:13 <TrueBrain> tomato tomato 12:34:15 <kkmic> Yeah, it's old. Maybe. But is it worth to change it? I really think it's good as it is 12:34:16 <dihedral> 07 was the time of ... _Karin 12:34:25 <dihedral> or was that 08 too 12:34:27 <TrueBrain> hehe @ dihedral :D 12:34:40 <TrueBrain> kkmic: well, I think a good use-case test would show you many improvements :) 12:34:58 <TrueBrain> history is rather annoying, walking through strings feels old and sluggish 12:35:03 <TrueBrain> my personal list is rather large :D 12:35:10 <kkmic> I'm not talking about the technology used, I'm talking about the usability standpoint 12:35:11 <TrueBrain> basic concept is good, but a lot of details that need changing 12:35:13 <dihedral> improving, yes - rewrite? would it really need that? 12:35:42 <kkmic> dihedral: I agree with you 12:35:44 <TrueBrain> I was not talkinga bout the code either :) Just from a use-case point of view 12:36:09 <TrueBrain> mostly what I always wanted, is some way to display 'hints' 12:36:09 <dihedral> and what is the problem with cases, TrueBrain 12:36:17 <TrueBrain> to keep translations consistent 12:36:24 <TrueBrain> dihedral: don't use them :D:D:D 12:36:49 <TrueBrain> once a blue monday WT3 barks again, because someone added a case and removed it in some order 12:36:56 <TrueBrain> then I have to manually reset WT again ... 12:37:06 <TrueBrain> the things you don't see as normal user :P 12:37:07 <dihedral> ouch 12:37:46 <TrueBrain> dihedral: mind changing noaddedsugar to ... 178.33.34.239 for a few days? 12:37:57 <TrueBrain> then I can boot this VPS I hope ..... not sure tbh :P 12:38:35 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:40:37 <kkmic> Well, it the next WT won't be using PHP I am of only minimal help I'm afraid. I could give you a rundown of what I would like to see in the next WT and what worked and not worked for me in the current version 12:42:15 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, limiting yourself to "i can only program <one language>" is silly 12:42:22 <dihedral> TrueBrain, need IPv6 too? 12:42:34 <TrueBrain> dihedral: no tnx 12:42:45 <Eddi|zuHause> almost all programming languages are sufficiently similar that they can easily be learned if you already know one 12:42:58 <TrueBrain> well, Python is a bit of an exception there, but yeah .. both imperative languages :) 12:43:00 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 12:43:11 <Eddi|zuHause> especially python is one of the easiest languages to learn-as-you-go-along 12:44:25 <Alberth> kkmic: it is common to see problems as an opportunity to learn something new :p 12:44:32 <Alberth> +here 12:45:41 *** Immsys [Immy@78.86.212.81] has quit [] 12:45:46 <dihedral> TrueBrain, done ;-) 12:46:00 <TrueBrain> how long is your TTL? :) 12:46:27 <TrueBrain> anyway: http://noaddedsugar.net/projects/show/webtranslator <- when / if the URL works, there is a lot of documentation and an initial framework for WT3.1 there 12:47:15 <kkmic> Alberth: True, unfortunately learning requires free time, which is something that my current RL does not allow me too much to be able to learn a new language AND do something tangible with it in a reasonable amount of time 12:47:45 <dihedral> 3600 12:48:11 <Eddi|zuHause> if your "RL" prevents you from learning, then you have the wrong job... 12:48:12 <dihedral> you might want to touch the nginx config? :-P 12:48:14 <Alberth> kkmic: we are in no hurry, otherwise someone would have written a new version already 12:48:30 <TrueBrain> dihedral: why? That exact URL works :P 12:48:39 <Xaroth> the url works for me :o 12:48:48 <dihedral> just without www. ;-) 12:49:07 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: and just a FYI, if you would had just asked if I had documentation about how a new WT would need to be designed, the same would have happened, without you accusing me of 'blocking' *every* attempt .... 12:49:12 <Xaroth> kkmic: then helping out with something huge like WT isn't going to help either 12:50:04 <kkmic> Well, it was a challenge 12:50:16 <TrueBrain> dihedral: there, added www :P 12:50:19 <Xaroth> learning python is a more fun challenge tbqfh :P 12:50:22 <TrueBrain> dihedral: tnx a lot :D I am still out of domains :( 12:50:22 <kkmic> Unfortunetely, I'm on the wrong side of the mountain, it seems 12:50:36 <Xaroth> there are mountains? 12:51:52 <TrueBrain> Added by Patric 'TrueBrain' Stout 871 days ago <- the good old days :D 12:52:01 <Alberth> kkmic: for what it is worth, I have programmed a bit of PHP, and was annoyed by it very soon. I also programmed Python, and found it MUCH more fun. 12:52:18 <Alberth> so you might enjoy learning a new language :) 12:52:48 <planetmaker> Well, sorry TrueBrain. Nice to see that indeed. I'd had hoped for this at the same time when it comes to "WT3 is not worth looking at". 12:52:50 <Xaroth> aye, python is more -fun- programming :P 12:53:22 <Xaroth> planetmaker: there's a dutch saying for that 12:53:31 <Alberth> Xaroth: until you have an application of a several 10,000 lines of code :) 12:53:48 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: fair enough :) 12:53:53 <Xaroth> Alberth: I do.. well.. maybe not several, but i've hit 14+k lines at least 12:54:11 <Alberth> that's pretty big already :) 12:54:39 <Xaroth> well it's at least -somewhat- organised.. 12:54:49 <planetmaker> Xaroth: there are many Dutch sayings 12:54:57 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: new website is just 1.6k LoC :P 12:55:13 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest20594 12:55:14 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDFF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:55:15 <Xaroth> my home server codebase is 5k 12:55:28 *** Guest20594 [~frank@p5DDFDFF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55:34 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: yeh, the new website can use another few K LoC 12:55:40 <Xaroth> planetmaker: yeh, but that one was a funny saying :P 12:55:40 <TrueBrain> kkmic: personally, I really don't care which language WT3.1 / WT4 would be written in. I favour Python, mostly because most of OpenTTD is in Python (NML, Website, ...) 12:55:52 <Xaroth> you'd have to be dutch or understand dutch to get it tho :P 12:56:09 <TrueBrain> PHP is one of my least favorites, mostly because it doesnt remember its state between requests 12:56:14 <TrueBrain> so stuff gets REALLY expensive really fast :) 12:56:24 <Xaroth> PHP is bloated as well 12:56:32 <TrueBrain> bloated or not, I don't care 12:56:35 <kkmic> What's a NML? 12:56:41 <TrueBrain> but that every requests needs to build up its state .... 12:56:46 <TrueBrain> NML is a language to write NewGRFs in 12:56:47 <planetmaker> Xaroth: Have fune hinting at unquoted sayings in a foreign language. 12:57:05 <TrueBrain> which allows translations in the same style as OpenTTD language files 12:57:44 <TrueBrain> (for which we want a WT to be capable of processing that) 12:57:48 <kkmic> I'm not saying that PHP is the best, but it's the only one I know and we use it here for every project, small and large, and it does it's job well 12:57:48 <Alberth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml <-- there is NML 12:58:04 <kkmic> Speaking of job, I have on to get back to :) 12:58:09 <TrueBrain> kkmic: it is good for many things :) 12:58:10 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: yes, I'm now really happy about this. May it be unfinished and whatever. It's something "give" people. 12:58:11 <TrueBrain> (PHP that is) 12:58:13 <kkmic> *Speaking of job, I have one to get back to :) 12:58:21 <TrueBrain> have fun working kkmic :) 12:58:23 <planetmaker> To show them that one cares. To give them an idea. 12:58:37 <planetmaker> Which is nice. Tremendously nicer than 'dead end' 12:58:43 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: well, then I suggest you move it to the devzone, or keep dihedral happy :P 12:58:46 <TrueBrain> it is his domain 12:58:50 <planetmaker> :-) 12:59:21 <kkmic> It was a nice chat guys, see ya 13:00:16 <Alberth> bye 13:01:03 *** kkmic [~chatzilla@91.199.199.6] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0.1/20111120135848]] 13:01:43 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: talking about our "dead end" , it is the same as BaNaNaS. All people want to do is make small changes to the code to 'improve it', without them understanding that sometimes a piece of code went so far the wrong way, it is at a dead end and should be rewritten. In the example of BaNaNaS, the full source is available, yet nobody wants to do it 13:02:15 <TrueBrain> it often makes me sad; seems people are only interested in helping out with the 'easy' stuff 13:02:33 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: mind that I DO take your word on it, or at least have no doubt that it definitely will be the better solution 13:02:52 <TrueBrain> the main reason we still have the copy of the LW machine running, is because of WT :( 13:02:54 <TrueBrain> I cannot move it :( 13:03:02 <TrueBrain> it is _that_ bad :P 13:03:21 <TrueBrain> and tnx planetmaker :) 13:03:56 <planetmaker> My only concern - all what I said here today, and also other occasions - it's mostly that if it's accessible, people can see it. 13:04:12 <planetmaker> And often even seeing the old attempt is a good study case before re-designing it from scratch 13:04:29 <planetmaker> It teaches. What works. What doesn't work. What somewhat works 13:04:29 <TrueBrain> if someone is truly interested, I have many many test-cases :P 13:04:38 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:61f1:f33b:e278:4e33] has joined #openttd 13:04:41 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:04:51 <TrueBrain> but 90% stop caring when they understand that have to make some kind of design document first :( 13:05:05 <planetmaker> Well, sure. But you know how it goes: Before making a commitment, it's much easier and nicer if one can get an idea about the scope, size, extend and type of problems at hand 13:05:07 <TrueBrain> I guess I am a bit grumpy when it comes to that ;) 13:05:18 <Xaroth> bitter vet! 13:05:19 <planetmaker> yes :-P 13:05:27 <planetmaker> cookie? ;-) 13:05:49 <TrueBrain> but so yeah ... just ask if you want to know something; that is rarely a real issue :) 13:06:02 <TrueBrain> ugh, those ugly amazon cookies? They are old! :P 13:15:15 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:15:32 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #openttd [] 13:22:40 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDFF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:46 *** SnowDragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-20-40.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:23:54 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDFF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:24:39 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:34:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.172.252] has joined #openttd 13:47:55 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDFF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:48 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDFF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:58:59 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDFF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:40 <dihedral> <TrueBrain> dihedral: tnx a lot :D I am still out of domains :( <- i'm not :-P 14:07:52 <dihedral> still have codecubes.org too :-P 14:10:28 *** Sacro is now known as howdoyousolveaproblemlikemaria 14:10:39 <TrueBrain> @kick howdoyousolveaproblemlikemaria like this 14:10:39 *** howdoyousolveaproblemlikemaria was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [like this] 14:19:03 <Belugas> hello 14:19:26 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDFF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:24:21 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 14:29:00 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-14-164.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i've done so much refactoring now, i probably made everything even worse... 14:37:10 <Alberth> nothing a 'revert' cannot fix :D 14:40:35 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 14:41:28 <peter1138> or the patch to remove all bugs 14:41:51 <peter1138> dihedral, are they like cubicles? 14:43:16 <Terkhen> hello 14:44:57 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:46:06 <fjb|tab> Moin Terkhen . 14:46:24 *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A19FFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:46:25 *** SnowDragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-20-40.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:09 *** SnowDragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-20-40.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:52:19 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1911F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:52:28 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 15:06:17 *** dlr365 [~Doug@d142-59-83-184.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 15:07:06 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 15:07:10 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-97-222.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:18:46 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDFF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:36 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDFF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:38:37 *** dlr365 [~Doug@d142-59-83-184.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:43:24 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 16:07:33 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-012-092.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 16:20:00 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23529 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make all widget enum values unique and make them include the files they need to compile 16:21:44 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23530 /trunk/src/ (waypoint_gui.cpp widgets/waypoint_widget.h): -Codechange: begin unify the naming of widgets and add comments to them, in this case the waypoint view widgets 16:23:56 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23531 /trunk/src/ (36 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: document and rename widgets to be consistent and understandable 16:26:05 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23532 /trunk/src/ (viewport_gui.cpp widgets/viewport_widget.h): -Codechange: unify widget naming of (extra) viewport 16:28:59 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23533 /trunk/src/ (group_gui.cpp widgets/group_widget.h): -Codechange: document and rename widgets to be consistent and understandable 16:29:06 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:30:11 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:35:59 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23534 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: document and rename widgets to be consistent and understandable 16:37:19 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0e562.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:38:14 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r23535 /trunk/src/ (transparency_gui.cpp widgets/transparency_widget.h): -Codechange: unify widget naming of transparency toolbar 16:39:05 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:41:46 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-79-163.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:46:04 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23536 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: document and rename widgets to be consistent and understandable 16:47:02 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-14-164.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:47:11 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 16:49:27 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23537 /trunk/src/widgets/ (rail_widget.h road_widget.h sign_widget.h subsidy_widget.h): -Fix (r23529): typo in the word 'because' (tnx to Alberth for noticing) 16:49:49 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 16:53:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r23538 /trunk/src/ (tree_gui.cpp widgets/tree_widget.h): -Codechange: Consistent naming of widgets in tree plant gui 16:54:06 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23539 /trunk/src/ (depot_gui.cpp widgets/depot_widget.h): -Codechange: prevent conflict between widget naming of (vehicle) depots and vehicle details 16:55:11 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23540 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unify and document vehicle widgets 16:57:26 <Hirundo> collaborative widget renaming commit spree (CWRCS) going on? 16:59:56 <Ammler> hehe, you fix typoes in the comments :-P 17:05:38 <planetmaker> :-) 17:06:03 <TrueBrain> they are as important as any other :) 17:08:45 *** luigi [545163f9@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 17:10:18 *** luigi [545163f9@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [] 17:11:55 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r23541 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Consistent naming of widgets in NewGRF debug window 17:17:58 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 17:19:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23542 /trunk/src/ (town_gui.cpp widgets/town_widget.h): -Codechange: unify and document town related widgets 17:22:51 *** SnowDragon is now known as welshdragon 17:36:33 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:38:59 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:42:59 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r23543 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_gui.cpp widgets/newgrf_widget.h): -Codechange: Document and name consistently widgets of NewGRF window 17:43:30 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:44:18 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-187-209.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:57:15 *** Amis [~Amis@5400EA5B.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 17:57:29 <Amis> Hai o/ 17:57:39 <Amis> Soooo.... 17:57:59 <Amis> If I'm creating a scenarion where can I set it to be "Funding only" regarding industries? 17:58:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23544 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: document and rename widgets to be consistent and understandable 17:58:44 <Alberth> you set it before you create the scenario, I think 17:59:39 <Alberth> Finally I can understand widgets :p 18:00:15 <Amis> Alberth, the options are greyed out 18:00:18 <Amis> I can't change em 18:00:26 <planetmaker> Amis: yes. Only prior to map creation 18:00:33 <planetmaker> thus prior you start creating the scenario 18:00:48 <Amis> Hmm? :/ 18:00:49 <Alberth> it is not in the options, it is in the create-world window 18:00:54 <Amis> Yes 18:00:57 <Amis> I'm saying that one 18:01:00 <Amis> Both "Off" 18:01:30 <Amis> In the scenario editor 18:02:26 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r23545 /trunk/src/ (object_gui.cpp widgets/object_widget.h): -Codechange: Consistently name widgets in build object window 18:02:34 <Amis> I guess the option is missing 18:02:37 <Amis> Where can I report it? 18:02:57 <Amis> Hmm 18:03:20 <Amis> Got the bug tracker 18:03:22 <Alberth> I am wondering why it is the case. I cannot see a problem, but quite likely I am overlooking something 18:04:16 <Amis> Alberth, click Scenario Editor 18:04:28 <Amis> There's no way of setting the industries to funding only 18:04:34 * Alberth knows 18:04:48 <Amis> So if I play the map there will be new industries over time 18:04:50 <Alberth> the question is why that is the case 18:04:52 <Amis> And you can't disable it 18:05:04 <Amis> When you generate a map you can disable it 18:05:13 <Amis> But that's not the case with the scenario editor 18:06:32 <Amis> So it's a "missing feature" 18:06:57 <Amis> Unless I can set it in the console 18:07:18 <Alberth> I would assume that it was disabled for a reason, the problem is that I don't know that reason 18:09:13 <Alberth> even if the console allows it, it is still a missing feature imho, you should be able to set scenario properties without messing with consoles 18:09:55 <Amis> Yah 18:10:00 <Amis> Gonna put it into the trac 18:10:19 <Amis> Ehh 18:10:21 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23546 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: document and rename widgets to be consistent and understandable 18:10:22 <Amis> Have to register 18:11:11 <TrueBrain> we don't use trac :P 18:11:21 <TrueBrain> (Well, we do, but read-only) 18:11:27 <Amis> Ow 18:11:38 <Amis> I ment Flyspray 18:16:37 <Amis> It seems you can actually "change" it in a way 18:17:06 <Amis> The settings of a new scenario defaults to the current difficult settings 18:17:14 <Amis> But you can't change it after the scenario is created 18:17:23 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23547 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: document and rename widgets to be consistent and understandable 18:17:51 <Alberth> yes, and I think it is for consistency reasons 18:18:58 <Alberth> that is, you inherit ALL settings from the main menu, rather than only some of them can be changed afterwards 18:19:36 <Amis> But you should be able to change it 18:19:38 <Amis> I mean 18:19:45 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23548 /trunk/src/ (toolbar_gui.cpp widgets/toolbar_widget.h): -Codechange: unify and document toolbar widgets 18:19:51 <Amis> You create a noice scenario the n"oh shi-" you started with the wrong settings 18:20:07 <Amis> Editor should about editing stuff 18:20:21 <Amis> (like disabling industry spawning) 18:20:21 <planetmaker> *should* 18:20:46 <Alberth> the SE is quite under-developed 18:20:50 <Amis> :< 18:21:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r23549 /trunk/src/ (order_gui.cpp widgets/order_widget.h): -Codechange: Document and consistently name widgets of order GUI 18:23:48 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23550 /trunk/src/ (osk_gui.cpp widgets/osk_widget.h): -Codechange: unify naming of the on screen keyboard widgets 18:24:00 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23551 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: document and rename widgets to be consistent and understandable 18:27:09 <planetmaker> so... which files are free? 18:29:07 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23552 /trunk/src/ (news_gui.cpp widgets/news_widget.h): -Codechange: unify naming of the news widgets 18:29:12 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23553 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: avoid naming conflict in widget enums 18:30:03 <Alberth> Amis: it has been this way since nov 2007 at least, and probably longer 18:30:23 <Amis> Alberth, it didn't matter before because there was no "funding only" option 18:30:54 <Amis> I know it's not that new but it's just that SE slipped through the update without being modified 18:31:01 <Alberth> but you did have different industry densities 18:31:16 <Amis> But that did not affect spawning rate 18:31:17 <Amis> I guess 18:31:27 <Alberth> could be 18:34:07 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-20-40.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23554 /trunk/src/widgets/ (6 files): -Codechange: some minor consistency fixes 18:39:46 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23555 /trunk/src/widgets/ (5 files): -Fix (r23554): save before commit 18:39:48 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23556 /trunk/src/ (rail_gui.cpp widgets/rail_widget.h): -Codechange: unify rail widget naming and document them 18:40:25 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0084b4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:40:28 *** SnowDragon [~welshdrag@client-82-31-30-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:41:46 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23557 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 18:41:46 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:41:46 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: german - 9 changes by NG 18:41:46 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 110 changes by Tucalipe 18:41:46 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: swedish - 10 changes by Zuu 18:41:46 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: urdu - 160 changes by haider 18:44:04 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23558 /trunk/src/widgets/rail_widget.h: -Fix (r23556): ctrl-z too few ;) 18:46:04 <TrueBrain> so ~30 commits for name changes 18:46:05 <TrueBrain> lovely 18:48:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r23559 /trunk/src/ (road_gui.cpp widgets/road_widget.h): -Codechange: Document and name consistently road build widgets 18:48:46 <planetmaker> commits are for free ;-) 18:51:36 <Alberth> yeah, but what about all those bits that you use? :) 18:52:35 <planetmaker> they're enslaved :-P 18:53:40 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23560 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: final pieces of consistency through widgets 18:54:01 <planetmaker> one commit to rule them all, one commit to find them, one commit to bring them all and in the darkness bind them. 18:54:07 <planetmaker> or along those lines :-P 18:56:56 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:57:56 *** SnowDragon [~welshdrag@client-82-31-30-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: SnowDragon] 18:58:35 <TrueBrain> lolz 18:58:40 <TrueBrain> no more tea for you my friend :D 18:59:20 <planetmaker> *slurp* 19:04:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23561 /trunk/src/widgets/graph_widget.h: -Codechange: forgot to document 1 widget enum 19:05:35 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23562 /trunk/src/widgets/company_widget.h: -Codechange: don't be lazy with the spacebar 19:09:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-52-92-73.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:09:46 <andythenorth> efening 19:10:01 <fjb|tab> Moin andythenorth. 19:10:08 * andythenorth had another baby 19:10:09 <andythenorth> boy 19:10:11 <andythenorth> no name yet 19:10:13 <andythenorth> bbl 19:10:14 <andythenorth> ;) 19:10:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-52-92-73.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 19:10:22 <Prof_Frink> andythesmall 19:12:02 <TrueBrain> lol @ andy :D 19:12:03 <TrueBrain> how sweet :) 19:15:08 <Rubidium> he could just name the baby boy 19:15:27 <planetmaker> :-P 19:15:39 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest20625 19:15:39 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFF118.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:15:42 <Rubidium> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmcA9LIIXWw ;) 19:19:21 <TrueBrain> can someone explain to me WHY I opened that link? :( 19:20:51 <Rubidium> the only reason I can think of: because you like Boy George 19:20:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.186.102] has joined #openttd 19:21:41 <fjb|tab> Curiosity kills the TrueBrain. 19:22:24 <planetmaker> outch 19:22:38 *** Guest20625 [~frank@p5DDFDFF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:25:25 <fjb|tab> planetmaker: How about walking to the Brocken? 19:25:56 <planetmaker> In principle: why not? :-) But how snowy is it? 19:27:04 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.206.40] has joined #openttd 19:27:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.172.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:27:45 <fjb|tab> A bit. The railway closed its service, a bit windy, too. 19:28:19 <fjb|tab> The hotel is also closed. 19:29:19 <fjb|tab> Speed of the wind is about 120km/h. 19:31:57 *** wyrzym [~wyrzym@cpc11-sgyl28-2-0-cust630.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:32:06 <wyrzym> hi 19:32:51 <wyrzym> iam new in ottd 19:32:59 <wyrzym> and i have a problem 19:32:59 <Alberth> planetmaker: I thought about the industry settings, and imho enabling it in the world-generation window in the SE makes no sense, as there is no OK button 19:33:10 <Alberth> wyrzym: please tell us :) 19:33:11 <wyrzym> whene i start the game i cannot build anything 19:33:15 <Alberth> wyrzym: and welcome :) 19:33:18 <wyrzym> any hint? 19:33:25 <planetmaker> start in 1950 19:33:25 <Alberth> year? 19:33:30 <wyrzym> 1920 19:33:37 <planetmaker> that's the problem :-) 19:33:40 <wyrzym> hymmm 19:33:49 <wyrzym> old ttd alow to build form 1910 19:33:51 <wyrzym> :p 19:33:57 <wyrzym> if i good remember 19:33:57 <wyrzym> :D 19:34:23 <planetmaker> OpenTTD allows that, too. 19:34:25 <Alberth> no, TTDX started in 1950 too 19:34:31 <planetmaker> But the default vehicles are not available then. 19:34:55 <Alberth> you can start earlier, but you have to activate some early vehicle newgrfs before 19:34:56 <planetmaker> And the vehicles of OpenTTD by default are the same wrt introduction dates as TTD 19:35:01 <wyrzym> so, if i want to play from 1920 i have to...? download models? :> 19:35:06 <planetmaker> yes 19:35:09 <planetmaker> online content 19:35:13 <wyrzym> :O 19:35:15 <wyrzym> thx 19:35:32 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:35:38 <Wolf01> evenink 19:35:39 <Alberth> evenink Wolf01 19:35:55 <wyrzym> GRF ? 19:36:04 <fjb|tab> Moin Wolf01. 19:36:27 <Alberth> wyrzym: http://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF 19:36:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19FFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:22 <fjb|tab> With the right vehicles set you can start in 1700. But horse carriages tend to get boring after a while. 19:41:40 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:26:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-52-92-73.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:26:48 <Alberth> congratulations andy! 20:26:55 <andythenorth> thanks 20:27:01 <andythenorth> I didn't do much tbh 20:30:20 *** Cardiz [~Cardiz@178-36-199-188.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #openttd 20:30:21 <Cardiz> Hello. 20:30:48 <Alberth> hi 20:31:44 <planetmaker> hey andythenorth, congratz! :-) 20:31:46 <Rubidium> congratulations andy and motherof(childof(andy)) ;) 20:32:02 <andythenorth> apparently we're stopping at 2 20:32:11 <planetmaker> lol :-) 20:32:23 <andythenorth> my view is, once you figure out a problem, you should scale the solution :P 20:32:31 <andythenorth> apparently this is not applicable in this case 20:32:53 <Alberth> 9 months is so very much fixed :) 20:32:53 <planetmaker> not sure that's a thing to discuss your wife hours after giving birth ;-) 20:36:22 <fjb|tab> Congratulations andythenorth. 20:36:51 <planetmaker> I hope all are well, andythenorth :-) 20:36:56 <planetmaker> Did you decide on a name yet? 20:37:51 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-39-185.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:38:52 <Rubidium> I did suggest boy, and boy did TB like the like for that suggestion ;) 20:39:01 <andythenorth> no name yet 20:39:09 <andythenorth> also - now is probably a good time to work on FIRS 20:39:17 <andythenorth> as the toddler is asleep 20:39:23 <andythenorth> and the baby + wife are 50 miles away 20:39:26 <andythenorth> :P 20:40:01 <frosch123> 50 miles? you are quite living in the woods 20:40:38 <Rubidium> probably no decent hospital in the vicinity 20:42:41 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:42:46 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-79-163.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:43:22 <Xaroth> grats andythenorth 20:43:37 <fjb|tab> Numbering the children would be easier than naming them. 20:43:51 <Xaroth> and wouldn't it be wise to stock up on some sleep, seeing you won't be seeing much of that the next few months :P 20:44:10 <Xaroth> fjb|tab: 1 of 9, 2 of 9 .. gets a bit awkward if 7 isn't a girl though.. 20:44:14 <Alberth> fjb|tab: but you'd get so many children called 'one' in a class 20:44:52 <Xaroth> Alberth: that just requires a N of N suffix :P 20:45:31 <Xaroth> and the motto "Resistance is futile" for the local sheriff dept.. 20:45:33 <andythenorth> fjb|tab: funny you should mention that 20:45:46 <andythenorth> the name of the first one literally translates as 'first' from Sanskrit 20:46:05 <andythenorth> there is another traditional sanskrit name which translates as 'second child' 20:46:11 <andythenorth> but my wife has ruled it out :( 20:46:40 <Xaroth> lol 20:46:51 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-84-248.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 20:48:08 <Xaroth> andythenorth: wasn't Sanskrit one of those languages that has a lot of words with the same meaning? 20:48:18 <andythenorth> dunno 20:48:19 <andythenorth> maybe 20:48:30 <fjb|tab> Alberth: We had 3 Michaels in our class. And you could use a scheme of subnumbering: 1.1, 1.2, and etc... 20:49:25 <frosch123> there was this story about the woman who named all her children the same, and used the father's name for distinguishing :p 20:50:23 <Alberth> my grand father was also called Albert, so we had a 'senior' and a 'junior' Albert :) 20:50:43 <Rubidium> andythenorth: use Kofi (then you always know what day he was born) 20:58:55 <TrueBrain> concratz andythenorth :) 21:23:11 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 21:24:26 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:24:35 *** Amis [~Amis@5400EA5B.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Quit: *pop*] 21:35:06 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73C0F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:50 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 21:36:58 *** Cardiz [~Cardiz@178-36-199-188.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [] 21:40:54 *** Cardiz [~Cardiz@178-36-199-188.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #openttd 21:42:26 * andythenorth -> bed 21:42:27 <andythenorth> bye 21:42:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host31-52-92-73.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:43:49 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-79-207.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 21:48:08 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-39-185.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:51:10 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73D15.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:57:36 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: Sla Mutant Co-Op for Renegade - coming back soon] 22:00:14 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23563 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Cleanup: remove useless global variable from strgen; it would always be false at the point it would be read 22:10:48 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 22:13:53 *** Cardiz [~Cardiz@178-36-199-188.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [] 22:18:38 *** Cardiz [~Cardiz@178-36-199-188.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #openttd 22:25:39 <Cardiz> How many players were in OpenTTD before the some Yogscast's action 22:25:58 <Alberth> we don't know 22:26:03 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has joined #openttd 22:26:33 <Cardiz> But well, 25k of new players is still nice. 22:26:53 <Alberth> if they all stay, yes :) 22:27:02 <Cardiz> Well I doubt that. :( 22:27:20 <Cardiz> The game can be a little complicated at start, and mostly people give up at the first minutes and uninstall the game. 22:27:27 <Alberth> some will stick probably 22:27:49 <Cardiz> I'll be honest: The only reason why I am playing OpenTTD is the graphics. 22:27:53 <Cardiz> :P 22:28:09 <Alberth> the graphics? 22:28:17 <Cardiz> Yes. 22:29:02 <Alberth> hmm, maybe I am too old :) I play for building tracks and stations, shuffling stuff around to make room for more tracks/trains 22:31:14 * fjb|tab feels like Alberth. 22:31:22 <planetmaker> :-) 22:31:31 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-26-113-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:31:32 <planetmaker> Seems there are many ways to enjoy the game :-) 22:31:53 <Chris_Booth> hi all 22:32:03 <planetmaker> hey Chris_Booth 22:32:18 <Chris_Booth> hi planetmaker long time no talk 22:32:26 <Wolf01> o/ Chris_Booth 22:32:38 * Alberth is glad most of the 117 do not respond :) 22:32:38 <Chris_Booth> hi Wolf01 22:32:46 <Chris_Booth> lol 22:33:01 <Chris_Booth> 117 highlights would be hell 22:33:39 <Alberth> lol :) 22:33:51 <frosch123> Cardiz: while yogscast gave a short peak, the download numbers for 1.0.0 were a lot higher 22:34:05 <frosch123> it was featured on multiple smaller sites 22:34:24 <frosch123> while every of those peaks were not as big as the yogscast one, they were more in total 22:34:42 <Alberth> I once sent a chain email around. I needed to send it 15 times or so in 24 hours, so I sent one email every hour + something, back to original sender :p 22:34:46 <Wolf01> [23:35:33] <planetmaker> Seems there are many ways to enjoy the game :-) <- I like to play old savegames to un-entangle the tracks, starting a new game is boring 22:35:04 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 22:35:24 <Alberth> Wolf01: oh that's nice, I do that sometimes with random savegames from the forum 22:36:14 <planetmaker> :-) yeah, can be nice 22:36:46 <planetmaker> when I play on our public server, one thing I enjoy most is improve or exand a live hub without interrupting flow 22:37:05 <planetmaker> blocking all entry and re-building is something many can :-) 22:37:28 <planetmaker> re-building while keeping traffic and not crashing trains... takes longer but is more fun 22:37:36 <Chris_Booth> planetmaker: the road worker 22:37:44 <Wolf01> I do all my changes live 22:38:01 * Alberth nods, much more fun 22:38:18 <Chris_Booth> second that 22:39:00 <Wolf01> and if I find the section too hard, I just put some bypass routes 22:40:07 <frosch123> planetmaker: that approach has the prerequisite that you start fixing the problem before it is completely jammed up :p 22:41:30 <Chris_Booth> but if that is the case you have bigger issues that the one junction you are working on 22:42:16 <Cardiz> Railway networks are my personal horrors. 22:42:28 <Wolf01> I once figured out how to fix a >300 maglev 6 tracks mainline, which was blocked... was like playing this game: http://www.cartoniefumetti.com/images/V-007.JPG?930 22:43:09 <Cardiz> How do I make trains and cars not slow down when driving up the hill? 22:43:17 <Cardiz> In some servers they don't slow down. 22:43:47 <Chris_Booth> change the acceleration model 22:43:58 <Chris_Booth> there are 2 in game orignal and realistic 22:44:09 <Chris_Booth> you can also chage slope gradient 22:44:18 <Cardiz> I changed the slope gradient to zero. 22:45:03 <Chris_Booth> then change the acceleration model to realisitic 22:45:18 <Alberth> Cardiz: it's much easier to just play at a flat surface then :) 22:46:11 <Cardiz> I cannot make the world flat. 22:46:15 <Cardiz> It costs too much. 22:46:32 <Alberth> start the scenario editor, make a flat map, save, play 22:46:59 <Alberth> or even just a heightmap with 1 colour :p 22:47:55 <Alberth> but imho, mountains and break-downs add to the challenge :D 22:48:19 <Alberth> especially in arctic climate 22:48:33 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-79-207.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:48:49 <Cardiz> Chris, changing the accelration to reallistic worked! Thank you! 22:48:51 <Alberth> good night all 22:49:04 <Chris_Booth> np Cardiz 22:49:19 <Chris_Booth> your train will not slow in turns so much now 22:49:23 <Wolf01> 'night Alberth 22:49:37 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:49:50 <glx> but it will slow down on slopes :) 22:50:29 <Cardiz> It doesn't. 22:51:07 <glx> check >2 tiles slope 22:52:33 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:52:45 <Cardiz> I'll check. 22:52:48 <Cardiz> Right now. 22:53:07 *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@nude.lesbianbath.com] has joined #openttd 22:54:08 <frosch123> night 22:54:13 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0084b4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:34 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-088-076-109-032.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 22:56:00 *** SnowDragon [~welshdrag@client-82-31-30-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:56:13 <Chris_Booth> anyone know any nice cargodest servers? 22:59:01 *** Cardiz_ [~Cardiz@87-205-230-154.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #openttd 23:00:52 <Cardiz_> Well yeah glx, you're right. 23:01:03 <Cardiz_> The train slows down on >2 tiles slope. 23:01:18 <Cardiz_> But there are rarely any >2 tiles slopes in game. 23:01:25 <glx> but it's still better than slow down in turns 23:01:31 *** Cardiz is now known as Guest20638 23:01:32 *** Cardiz_ is now known as Cardiz 23:01:51 <glx> it's realistic :) 23:04:53 *** Guest20638 [~Cardiz@178-36-199-188.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:06:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19FFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:07:46 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:09:44 <Chris_Booth> you can always add more locos to stop slowing 23:10:28 <glx> inded 23:10:30 <glx> +e 23:17:18 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-26-113-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 9.0/20111212185108]] 23:19:35 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest20639 23:19:37 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFD257.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:21:57 *** Guest20639 [~frank@p5DDFF118.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:25:20 *** APTX_ [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 23:26:12 *** SnowDragon is now known as welshdragon 23:26:25 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:17 <Wolf01> 'night all 23:49:23 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:49:37 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-97-222.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:51:22 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:58:19 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.209.121] has joined #openttd