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00:19:40 <FLHerne> Is anyone awake? 00:19:57 <Mark> Probably. 00:20:29 <FLHerne> Just seemed a bit quiet on here... 00:22:42 <Mark> It's the days between Christmas and New Year Eve. 00:24:24 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/bayd-zugw-2.png 00:24:28 <Elukka> sprrrriiiiiites 00:24:49 *** Bawx [~Bawx@77-253-30-91.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #openttd 00:24:51 <Bawx> Hello! 00:25:09 <Elukka> hi 00:25:17 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 8.0/20111115183541]] 00:26:36 <Bawx> When I am trying to install OpenTTD 1.2.0-beta1, it says "Downloading of OpenMSX failed". Why does that happen? 00:31:15 *** Bawx [~Bawx@77-253-30-91.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [] 00:39:07 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-007-179.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 00:44:02 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 00:49:07 *** Elukka [~Elukka@78-27-84-248.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 00:49:47 *** mooseman [~mooseman@pool-96-239-237-236.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 00:50:33 <mooseman> hello 00:53:40 <FLHerne> hello 00:58:17 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-115-234.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 00:58:34 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-115-234.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 00:58:37 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 01:03:46 *** FLHerne [~francis@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:56 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-012-204.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:08:25 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-016-188.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 01:10:11 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1ACCC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:15:15 <mooseman> Anybody else playing OpenTTD on Ubuntu? :D 01:25:24 *** Lakie [~Lakie@109.176.214.131] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 01:25:38 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-016-188.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 01:27:18 <Wolf01> 'night 01:27:22 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 01:33:43 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest22027 01:33:44 *** Guest22027 [~frank@p5DDFEE1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:33:44 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFEE1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:47:26 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@188-222-85-41.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:44 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.203.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:53:36 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 02:02:50 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 02:13:24 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d82074d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 02:27:35 *** AndroUser [~androirc@074-050-155-148.plateautel.net] has joined #openttd 02:27:52 <AndroUser> Hello 02:28:17 <AndroUser> :l How do I change my nick? 02:35:42 *** AndroUser is now known as Kendued 02:35:48 <Kendued> There 02:38:42 *** Kendued is now known as ^-_Kendued_-^ 02:38:47 <mooseman> lol 02:39:10 <mooseman> Are you on Ubuntu, Kendued? 02:39:18 <^-_Kendued_-^> Lol i i guess you found me playng with /nick 02:39:24 <^-_Kendued_-^> No, Im on android 02:39:36 <mooseman> ok 02:40:00 <mooseman> 'night all 02:40:03 *** mooseman [~mooseman@pool-96-239-237-236.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:41:19 <^-_Kendued_-^> Anyone else to talk to online? 02:59:04 *** AndroUser2 [~androirc@24-54-171-155.nm.warpdriveonline.com] has joined #openttd 02:59:45 *** Afdal [~chatzilla@host-174-45-176-7.chy-wy.client.bresnan.net] has joined #openttd 02:59:49 <Afdal> Hello 03:00:13 <Afdal> Can someone explain to me how depot pathfinding for maintenance works? 03:01:27 <Afdal> Why do trains service more often when you split depots from the main track using a path signal than with block or presignals? 03:03:24 *** ^-_Kendued_-^ [~androirc@074-050-155-148.plateautel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:24:08 *** AndroUser2 [~androirc@24-54-171-155.nm.warpdriveonline.com] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 03:31:49 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:34:06 <Afdal> Do trians only look ahead for 9 tiles when pathfinding? 03:36:03 <Afdal> or is it 8 tile 03:36:06 <Afdal> or 8.5 03:53:20 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a setting for the maximum distance 03:53:29 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:44f5:c2b3:8599:ba7d] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:58:35 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:00:37 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest22042 04:00:37 *** Guest22042 [~frank@p5DDFEE1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:00:38 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFEE1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:06:47 <Afdal> What's the setting? 04:35:37 <appe> morning 04:41:08 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 04:41:30 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 05:07:00 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 05:07:21 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 05:21:22 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 05:21:42 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 05:25:34 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:43:13 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 05:43:34 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 05:51:10 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B742C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:51:34 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74876.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:55:03 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-236.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 06:20:49 *** thefiler [2987a3d7@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:20:49 *** thefiler [2987a3d7@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [] 06:21:22 *** thefiler [2987a3d7@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:22:01 <thefiler> morning... 06:23:25 <Afdal> evening 06:23:56 <thefiler> any experts here? 06:24:06 <thefiler> need some questions answered 06:24:34 *** XaTriX [5b791789@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:26:05 <Afdal> Me too :( 06:26:16 <Afdal> I might be able to help, but probably not 06:28:22 <Rubidium> thefiler: experts of what? Does your question really need an expert, or just someone knowing the answer 06:28:47 <Rubidium> in any case, I'm an expert but possibly not in the area you need the expert in 06:32:11 *** thefiler [2987a3d7@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32:20 <Afdal> Afdal Can someone explain to me how depot pathfinding for maintenance works? 06:32:22 <Afdal> Afdal Why do trains service more often when you split depots from the main track using a path signal and less with a block or presignal? 06:34:17 <Rubidium> I guess thefiler quit right after asking his meta question... why are people so unpatient? 06:34:36 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 06:34:46 <Afdal> :( 06:34:56 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 06:35:08 <Rubidium> Afdal: vehicles try every X ticks to find a depot that is within Y pathfinder penalties (don't know the exact number) 06:35:33 <Afdal> When they're in need of a maintenance, right? 06:35:52 <Afdal> So does a one-way path signal have less penalty than regular signals? 06:36:01 <Afdal> That still doesn't explain how 06:36:10 <Afdal> trains find the depot with regular signals 06:36:16 <Afdal> They can find depots with both 06:36:21 <Rubidium> with path signals it starts looking from the end of the reservation, whereas with normal signals it's from the front of the train 06:36:30 <Afdal> but if you use a path signal they maintain themselves significantly more often 06:37:17 <Afdal> hmm, I don't understand how that would bias the path-signaled depot 06:37:26 <Rubidium> if the signal blocks are large/long, then it is more likely to that the depot is sought when the train's reservation ends near the depot 06:38:11 *** thefiler [~2987a3d7@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:38:19 <Afdal> Here's an example by the way 06:38:23 <Afdal> in case I'm not being very clear 06:38:32 <Afdal> http://gyazo.com/80ff67ee9cf272498822a833c8964ba6 versus http://gyazo.com/6d1bce1d95ddbcfc30220ddfd5a9b900 06:38:45 <Rubidium> Afdal: it really depends on the situation; with many short signal blocks with path signals it's less likely to find one with path signals 06:39:12 <Afdal> But in this case it's the opposite of that 06:39:22 <Afdal> The path signal favors maintenance 06:40:27 <Rubidium> as I said, it tries to find a depot every X ticks, and does so with a max distance of Y 06:41:01 <Rubidium> now I'd reckon that the distance from depot to main track is very close to Y 06:41:19 <Afdal> yes, in that picture 06:41:28 <Afdal> If you make the track between the main track and the depot 06:41:36 <Afdal> any longer, trains won't service at all 06:41:44 <Afdal> 8 tiles is the maximum 06:41:52 <Afdal> err, track length 06:42:40 <Afdal> When you say ticks 06:42:43 <Afdal> Do you mean tiles? 06:42:47 <Afdal> or time? 06:42:55 <Rubidium> so, likely the only place a train can be to 'see' the depot within max distance is the tile with the pre/path signal 06:43:14 <Afdal> yes, that makes sense 06:43:15 <Rubidium> ticks are time 06:43:31 <Afdal> so... 06:43:56 <Afdal> I just don't see how that would be any any different between signal types 06:44:18 <Rubidium> now for the path signal, once the train passes the signal before the path signal the train reserves a path up to the path signal. From that moment *all* pathfinding of that train happens "from" the path signal's location 06:44:38 <Rubidium> which means that with the path signal it sees the depot two tiles earlier 06:44:53 <Afdal> aaah 06:44:55 <Afdal> interesting 06:45:11 <Afdal> So with the path signal it has more time to look for a depot 06:45:32 <Afdal> more time to coincide with the depot check tick 06:46:05 <Afdal> What about 06:46:07 <Rubidium> and this is where the X ticks comes to play as well. If the train tries at the tile just before the pre signal it is unlikely to try at the tile with pre signal due to its speed, as such it doesn't see the depot. With the path signal it would see the depot because of the reservation ending at the signal 06:46:43 <Afdal> Thanks, that makes a lot of sense 06:46:53 <Rubidium> ... changing the maximum distance to depot for maintenance? 06:46:58 *** thefiler [~2987a3d7@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:47:02 <Rubidium> there's a setting for that ;) 06:47:13 <Afdal> What's the setting? 06:47:34 <Afdal> Does that mean I could help trains service even better by making the signal block just before the path signal longer? 06:48:23 <Rubidium> yapf.maximum_go_to_depot_penalty or npf.maximum_go_to_depot_penalty depending on the chosen pathfinder 06:48:34 <Rubidium> Afdal: yes 06:49:30 <Afdal> So just so I'm clear on this 06:49:51 <Afdal> The train looks for depots in front of its reserved path? 06:50:33 <Rubidium> yes 06:50:45 <Afdal> Agh, now I'm confused again. It sounds like the way you're arguing it, it would only affect if there was a path signal just before the split signal 06:50:56 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 06:51:17 <Afdal> instead of at the split signal 06:51:19 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 06:51:41 <Rubidium> well, depends of what's "in front" is ofcourse 06:51:45 <Afdal> Because it reserves the extra track before the split, there's more chance to hit the depot check 06:51:50 <Afdal> but a block signal won't do that 06:52:38 <Afdal> Now I'm confused again :( 06:53:11 <Rubidium> well, to confuse you even more... 06:53:14 <Afdal> lol 06:54:07 <Rubidium> the pathfinding *always* happens from the "front" of the reservation, but with path signals it reserves till the next safe waiting point (signal / end of track), but with block signals it only reserves the track directly under the train 06:55:01 <Afdal> front being the furthest from the train, right? 06:55:06 <Rubidium> front is the reservation furthest away from the train in the direction it is riding 06:55:52 <Afdal> Yeah, the way you're describing it sounds like a path signal BEFORE the split signal is what would matter 06:56:19 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 06:56:40 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 06:57:00 <Rubidium> Afdal: but a block signal leading to a path signal reserves a path as well 06:57:09 <Afdal> It does? 06:57:26 <Rubidium> yes, but only when there's no other train in that signal block 06:57:43 <Afdal> It doesn't show it like that with track reservation on 06:57:53 <Afdal> Looks like the block signal acts the same as usual 06:58:00 <Afdal> show track reservation* 06:58:24 *** lordnokon [~LordNokon@41-135-163-215.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #openttd 06:58:31 <Afdal> with the reserved track only directly under the train 06:59:19 <lordnokon> is there no way to custom industries, instead of using on the 2040 tones per month limit 06:59:21 <Rubidium> for me it allocates the whole track from the block signal up to the path signal 07:00:00 <Afdal> Are you on 1.1.4 or 1.20 beta? 07:00:05 <lordnokon> so if i want to have a coal mine produce 1mil tones a month, that would save on the amount of industries needed to be build or funded, which will help not slowing down the game with lots of industries? 07:00:10 <Rubidium> neither 07:00:51 <Afdal> Here's what I'm seeing http://gyazo.com/7bf1b4f91b94b797cc7e142de8d2ab14 07:00:59 <Rubidium> but 1.1.4 behaves the same as the way I'm describing it 07:01:33 <Afdal> The track reservation shows the same before with the block signal before the path signal as per usual block signals 07:01:40 <Afdal> same behavior* 07:01:50 <Rubidium> oh, I'm not using the one way path signal 07:02:08 <Rubidium> but the 'normal' path signal 07:02:10 <Afdal> hmmmm 07:02:19 <Afdal> The plot thickens :o 07:02:32 <Afdal> oh hey you're right 07:02:34 <Afdal> neato 07:02:39 <Afdal> Buuuut... 07:02:52 <Afdal> That doesn't explain why one-way path signals favor servicing still 07:03:41 <Afdal> all over factors being equal 07:04:02 <Rubidium> different pathfinder penalties between the signals I'd guess 07:04:30 <Afdal> Is there a penalty for exit signals? 07:04:43 <Afdal> no wait that shouldn't matter 07:04:48 <Afdal> It's the same with each branch 07:05:09 <Rubidium> I don't know by heart what the different pathfinder penalties are 07:05:53 <Afdal> Also the maintenance rate with presignals and regular block signals at the track split is the same 07:06:03 <Afdal> It's only higher with a path signal 07:08:08 <lordnokon> any help on my questions? 07:08:37 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:10:41 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #openttd [] 07:10:43 <Afdal> The way you describe it, there should be a significant service rate difference between a two-way and a one-way path signal at the split 07:10:58 <Afdal> Let me test that 07:17:10 <Afdal> Wow, there is 07:17:37 <Afdal> So that explains why a two-way path signal will allow better servicing than a one-way 07:18:01 <Afdal> But it doesn't explain why a one-way path signal will allow better servicing over block/presignals 07:19:11 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 07:19:32 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 07:27:34 <Afdal> Actually, a second test gives slightly lower maintenance rate for two-way than one-way 07:27:43 <Afdal> I guess I need to run it a lot longer to be conclusive 07:28:42 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 07:28:53 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 07:35:53 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 07:36:18 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 07:42:18 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 07:42:39 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 07:43:41 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:46:19 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [] 07:46:33 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 07:51:03 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [] 07:51:24 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 07:52:20 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> oxygen.oftc.net quits: Vadtec, jonty-comp 07:53:31 *** Netsplit over, joins: Vadtec, jonty-comp 07:55:24 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [] 07:55:45 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 07:58:50 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:04:45 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 08:05:09 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 08:09:09 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [] 08:09:30 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 08:15:10 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 08:15:21 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 08:16:55 *** [1]Mark [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:16:56 *** Mark is now known as Guest22060 08:16:56 *** [1]Mark is now known as Mark 08:16:59 <Terkhen> good morning 08:19:21 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [] 08:19:42 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 08:20:42 <lordnokon> hi 08:30:50 <Terkhen> hi lordnokon 08:31:12 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 08:31:33 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 08:32:26 <Rubidium> moin Terkhen 08:33:49 <Terkhen> hi Rubidium :) 08:41:03 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 08:41:31 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 08:45:31 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [] 08:45:54 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 08:47:08 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:49:54 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [] 08:50:15 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 08:54:45 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [] 08:55:07 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 09:02:46 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 09:03:02 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 09:03:10 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 09:06:07 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-016-188.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:08:32 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 09:08:56 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 09:12:26 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [] 09:12:54 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 09:13:29 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 8.0/20111115183541]] 09:16:31 <lordnokon> can anyone help me, my trains are suffering, on hills in nightly, i've tried the advanced options. Am i missing something? i've seen youtube clips where people's trains fly up and down hills 09:17:54 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 09:18:15 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 09:19:58 <Terkhen> lordnokon: do you have realistic acceleration enabled? if so, with which slope inclination? 09:19:58 <Terkhen> also, it might just be that people in those videos have trains carrying less cargo or with more power 09:21:28 <lordnokon> train acceleration is set to orginal 09:23:45 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 09:23:59 <Terkhen> try to set it to realistic, slope 3% 09:24:03 <Terkhen> those are the default settings 09:24:07 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 09:27:34 <lordnokon> no real change 09:27:37 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [] 09:27:57 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 09:28:06 <lordnokon> my trains are the same size, with power and speed. still they lose speed, theirs never does 09:28:07 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:29:58 <Afdal> Original acceleration is the default 09:30:45 <lordnokon> ok hang on it works now... but now at the stations everything slows down 09:32:00 <lordnokon> and all corner speeds are fooked lol 09:32:58 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [] 09:33:20 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 09:34:54 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-002-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 09:41:26 <planetmaker> moin 09:42:30 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 09:42:41 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has joined #openttd 09:44:07 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AC10.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:46:26 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-103-125.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 09:48:25 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 09:48:43 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@79-68-103-220.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 09:52:14 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:54:34 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-103-125.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:54:56 <Terkhen> Afdal: original was the default :) 09:55:57 <Terkhen> lordnokon: my guess is that he is playing with 0% slopes 09:56:06 <Terkhen> but without a savegame it is just a guess 09:57:04 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 10:00:53 *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A18E48.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:01:51 <andythenorth> morning 10:02:25 <Terkhen> hi andythenorth 10:05:51 <planetmaker> hello andythenorth 10:06:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AC10.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:06:42 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 10:08:31 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-236.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:08:40 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:08:43 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 10:26:56 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-16-139.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 10:34:24 *** ohnoes [~ohnoes@catv-224-112-196.tees.ne.jp] has joined #openttd 10:34:34 <ohnoes> hello everyone 10:34:47 <TrueBrain> oh noes! It is ohnoes! 10:34:58 <ohnoes> :) 10:37:40 <ohnoes> I would like to ask a question. I am still novice but I am facing a problem regarding a coal mine, a power station and the railways I built. For some reason I do not understand, my coal keeps accumulating at the station next to the power station and when I click it there is a "x tonnes of coal en-route from <the station where the coal mine is>" 10:38:32 <planetmaker> do you use transfer or unload orders or does the power plant station not accept the coal? 10:39:41 <ohnoes> I am using full load <coal mine> -> full unload <station near the power station> -> maintain at <some depot> 10:40:20 <planetmaker> don't use unload 10:40:31 <planetmaker> just use normal 'goto'. It'll unload, if accepted 10:40:47 <planetmaker> and does the station accept coal? 10:40:48 <ohnoes> I think I tried that before too before I changed to "full unload" but I will give it a try again. thanks! 10:41:15 <planetmaker> if it doesn't unload then, the power plant or station does not accept coal. 10:41:33 <planetmaker> hard to say what when talking w/o savegame 10:42:02 <ohnoes> it didn't unload 10:42:30 <ohnoes> but the power station says "requires: coal". what do you mean by it "does not accept coal" ? Is there a way I can check that? 10:43:29 <planetmaker> if you don't use industry newgrfs, the power plant will always require coal 10:43:55 <Alberth> I always open the 'build station' window, make station the same size as you have, and hover over the existing station. Then watch the build-station window, it should say 'accepts coal' 10:44:09 <planetmaker> ^^ 10:44:16 <planetmaker> so do I :-) 10:44:38 <Alberth> there should be an easier way to do this, I agree ;) 10:45:10 <planetmaker> so do I :-P 10:46:16 <ohnoes> exactly, that's what I did too 10:46:25 <ohnoes> but actually since yesterday I am trying the 32bpp 10:46:37 <ohnoes> newgrfs... is that the cause of the problem ? 10:47:03 <Alberth> could be, do you use ECS ? 10:47:19 <ohnoes> Oh sh**... 10:48:12 <ohnoes> my bad. I just noticed that the power station was partially covered by the train station (without accepting coal) 10:48:13 <Alberth> always nice to solve a problem just by asking questions ;) 10:48:28 <planetmaker> :-) 10:48:39 <ohnoes> like I said. noob :) thank you everybody 10:48:49 <Alberth> Extending the station a bit should work, I think 10:49:09 <ohnoes> yeah, that's probably what I'll do :) 10:49:23 <ohnoes> I made it parallel, so probably I will just add a new line 10:50:00 <Alberth> existing cargo at the station will not be accepted until you transport it again though 10:50:45 <Alberth> just letting it linger is also an option, it will disappear in time 10:55:26 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:03:35 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.203.33] has joined #openttd 11:12:18 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 11:15:42 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:25:09 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-16-139.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:31:02 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@D5225594.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 11:31:14 *** Elukka [~Elukka@78-27-84-248.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:32:40 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:32:52 <Wolf01> hello 11:35:17 <Alberth> hello 11:39:53 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-16-139.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:43:30 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-97-175.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:43:30 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-115-234.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:46:36 *** Amis [~Amis@BC24EB37.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 11:47:13 <Amis> Whoever did the hot air balloooooon newgrf... 11:47:14 * Amis bow 11:47:57 <Alberth> it does not say who the author is? 11:48:40 <Amis> I have no idea. I just put together a newgrf pack quickly and was playing it and all of a sudden 11:48:44 <Amis> Hot air balloon 11:48:56 <Amis> I'm like... wtfawesome 11:49:02 <Alberth> or if you can find the topic in the forum, you can find his forum name and send a PM to him 11:49:25 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 11:53:19 <Amis> Haha, I didn't know it's possible :D 11:53:23 <Amis> "Aircraft ran out of fuel" 11:53:31 *** ohnoes [~ohnoes@catv-224-112-196.tees.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: ohnoes] 11:53:50 <Alberth> it was recently added 11:54:50 <planetmaker> well. it was possible before, if you destroyed all airports 11:55:00 <planetmaker> and the aircraft had nowhere to land 11:55:02 *** KingPixaIII is now known as Pixa 11:56:13 <Alberth> lol 11:57:44 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@D5225594.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:57:59 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-16-139.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:16:46 *** Markavian [~Markavian@188-222-85-41.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:38:43 <__ln__> http://detroitneedsrobocop.com/ 12:58:38 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0e029.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:12:39 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:13:12 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:54 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:22:31 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@D5225594.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 13:40:37 *** appe_ [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has joined #openttd 13:40:37 *** appe [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:50:41 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 13:54:17 <Belugas> hello 13:54:55 <Alberth> hi hi 13:56:20 <Belugas> mister Alberth, how are you going? 13:56:31 <Belugas> damned.. fingers are slow today 13:57:12 <Alberth> a bit annoyed with my lack of progress w.r.t. paths in freerct, so I am playing a bit of OpenDune :p 13:57:20 <Belugas> -18 celcius...ooch 13:57:39 <Alberth> ieks, please keep that there :) 13:57:46 <Belugas> you are? cool :) I should give it a try indeed :) 13:57:57 <Belugas> herm... at OpenDune... 13:58:10 <Belugas> not at sending you da cold 13:58:21 <Alberth> :) 14:00:24 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-002-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:14:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A0F2.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:30:31 *** Elukka [~Elukka@78-27-84-248.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:28 *** Elukka [~Elukka@78-27-84-248.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:32:51 <Eddi|zuHause> http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Steam_Engine_54_G3-4_2009-10-11_crop.jpg&filetimestamp=20091011214210 <-- that's seriously the weirdest "preserved engine" i have seen yet :p 14:37:04 <Alberth> looks like an Orcs machine from warhammer 40000 :p 14:49:37 <JVassie> http://pastebin.com/xc9aDr1F 14:49:46 <JVassie> can anyone see anything wrong with ym query pls? 14:49:55 <JVassie> 1064 normally means reserved keyword 14:50:03 <JVassie> but i cant see any that im usign which are reserved 14:51:38 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:34e7:b910:a468:8ee9] has joined #openttd 14:51:41 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:53:49 <JVassie> even if i change it to this 14:53:51 <JVassie> ti doesnt work 14:53:51 <JVassie> http://pastebin.com/Jr2SQbaP 14:57:05 <JVassie> driving me crazy :( 15:01:01 <Belugas> JVassie, i would remove the quotes on the INSERT statement. I never use them. But i'm not useing MySQL, so i cannot tell 15:01:20 <JVassie> around the column names or the values in inserting? 15:01:42 <JVassie> *im 15:01:51 <Belugas> INSERT INTO Transferees (title,firstname,lastname... 15:02:35 <JVassie> Belugas: genius :D 15:02:48 <Belugas> i am? cool :) 15:03:05 <JVassie> brain acheing, hard to think what i couldve been doing wrong :p 15:03:10 <Alberth> http://www.w3schools.com/sql/sql_insert.asp <-- doesn't mention the columns at all 15:03:41 <JVassie> INSERT INTO Persons (P_Id, LastName, FirstName) 15:03:41 <JVassie> VALUES (5, 'Tjessem', 'Jakob') 15:05:03 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=5676&pid=78993#pid78993 <- opinions? 15:07:40 *** ptr [~peter@c-5eeaaa31-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #openttd 15:10:11 <andythenorth> JVassie: your column IDs are escaped in strings 15:10:13 <andythenorth> try them without 15:10:23 <JVassie> aye that fixed it 15:10:28 <JVassie> s'what belugas suggested :) 15:10:30 <JVassie> but thx 15:10:35 <andythenorth> oh ok 15:10:40 * andythenorth was just guessing 15:10:42 <JVassie> ;p 15:10:45 <JVassie> good guess then :D 15:19:51 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-prvbrasgw1-fe05dc00-37.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:20:13 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest22088 15:20:14 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFE646.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:20:24 *** Guest22088 [~frank@p5DDFEE1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:23:47 *** ptr_ [~peter@c-5eeaaa31-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #openttd 15:23:47 *** ptr [~peter@c-5eeaaa31-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:23:47 *** ptr_ is now known as ptr 15:25:05 *** JVassie_ [~James@2.30.128.207] has joined #openttd 15:28:38 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.203.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:28:44 *** Amis [~Amis@BC24EB37.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:29:20 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 15:37:06 *** Aali [~aali@h-185-102.a189.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 15:42:17 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-002-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:43:25 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-26-113-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:44:20 *** ptr [~peter@c-5eeaaa31-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:56 *** ptr [~peter@c-5eeaaa31-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #openttd 15:51:26 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:59:53 *** ptr_ [~peter@c-5eeaaa31-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #openttd 15:59:53 *** ptr [~peter@c-5eeaaa31-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:53 *** ptr_ is now known as ptr 16:01:23 *** mikegrb_ [~michael@thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 16:05:16 *** mikegrb [~michael@mikegrb.netop.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 600 seconds] 16:11:39 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:04 *** leeroberson [~eberon@angilas.ur.northwestern.edu] has joined #openttd 16:12:16 <leeroberson> wow, lots of users in this channel, hurray 16:12:20 *** leeroberson is now known as eberon 16:12:31 <eberon> I'm just starting back on OpenTTD after an extremely long hiatus. 16:13:08 <andythenorth> good choice 16:13:19 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:13:20 <eberon> can someone tell me, does OpenTTD ship with an AI in the installer, or do I need to find and pick one in order to play with an AI? 16:13:44 <andythenorth> download AIs from in-game content service 16:13:46 <andythenorth> ;) 16:13:55 <andythenorth> I don't think one comes bundled 16:13:59 <eberon> okay great, I got the sense I needed to do that 16:14:06 <eberon> most of them seem experimental, is there a solid one? 16:14:20 <andythenorth> Zuu: ^ ? 16:15:17 <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Comparison_of_AIs perhaps? 16:15:40 <Zuu> There are several good ones. 16:15:47 <Zuu> I use to play with CluelessPlus and AIAI. 16:16:10 <eberon> durr, my eyes skipped the wiki link on the site, this should be super helpful. 16:16:22 <Zuu> Convoy is also very stable. 16:17:12 <eberon> thank you for the recs, clueless so far seemed to be the one with the most reasonable looking description but I will try a few of them 16:17:15 <Zuu> And there are more, it's just that I tend to only play with 2-3 in a single game. 16:17:40 <eberon> I am so excited at how much OpenTTD has improved in the last couple of years. This is one of my first childhood games, got it on floppies at a computer store that had racks of shareware in ziplock bags. 16:18:45 <Belugas> floppies... long time ago indeed :) 16:18:47 <andythenorth> there's a *lot* of new stuff :) 16:18:50 <Zuu> My other AI, PAXLink is something you could stay away from if you look for rock solid AIs :-) 16:19:14 <eberon> Zuu: I hope to become killer at this game again! 16:19:47 <eberon> andythenorth: one thing that turned me off of OpenTTD was the vast changes. I liked that it improved gameplay issues but otoh some of the changes were a little extreme and felt like cheating. I like the rules manager in the game. I wish it had presets. 16:20:13 <eberon> I've done some work on other FOSS projects in the past, maybe that is something I will try to advocate for or work on in OpenTTD at some point 16:20:36 <eberon> after a play a few dozen games :D 16:20:38 <Zuu> You are more than welcome to contrubute to the OpenTTD project :-) 16:21:50 <Zuu> But starting by playing is probably a good idea to get an idea of the vast changes and improvments compared to TTD :-) 16:22:09 <eberon> Yeah. I just noticed the server list on OpenTTD.org, that's amazing, I guess there's network code now? 16:22:18 <Zuu> Yep 16:22:43 <Alberth> nah, we have a 'multiplayer' button at the intro screen just for looks :) 16:22:54 * Zuu remembers the WWOTTDGD2 16:23:05 <Zuu> (world wide openttd game day 2) 16:23:25 <eberon> Alberth: ha, in open source games there's a ~50% chance that means you'll get a "coming soon!" screen when you press a button like that 16:23:49 <andythenorth> ottd doesn't do that so much 16:23:52 <Alberth> eberon: our buttons are mostly quite functional :) 16:23:56 <andythenorth> if it doesn't work, it's not shipped 16:24:00 <andythenorth> mostly 16:24:37 <Alberth> of ocurse, it may not do what you think it does :) 16:25:02 <andythenorth> more often it doesn't do what I think it should :P 16:26:14 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/bayd-zugw-3.png 16:26:33 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: starting to look alright? 16:28:02 <michi_cc> Elukka: Slightly related question: Would you say that drawing such a wagon for x2/x4 zoom in still in 8bpp makes sense and looks good? Or are zoomed in sprites not in 32bpp useless? 16:29:35 <Elukka> i think i'd do it in 32bpp (why not?) but still in the pixel art style if it's meant to fit together with current graphics 16:30:40 <michi_cc> Because the 32bpp-anim blitter is a lot more expensive than all other blitters. 16:30:50 <Elukka> well, dunno then 16:31:05 <Elukka> that sprite is for the default zoom level, just zoomed in in photoshop so it's easier to see 16:31:41 <michi_cc> The question is more like, is it possible to draw proper zoomed-in sprites in 8bpp or are the colours too limited? 16:31:59 <Elukka> i think it's possible 16:32:00 <Elukka> i haven't tried though 16:32:31 <michi_cc> So it does make sense to implement/allow it :) 16:32:43 <Elukka> probably 16:32:54 <andythenorth> michi_cc: it's possible 16:33:01 <andythenorth> what the style would be I have no idea 16:33:16 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: if it doesnt hurt, there is never a loss by allowing it ;) 16:33:17 <michi_cc> andythenorth: How horrible does http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/872/ look to you? 16:33:24 <Elukka> could just do the current style at higher resolution, andy 16:33:51 <Elukka> depends on if it's meant to fit in with current graphics or with typical 32 bpp graphics 16:33:59 <andythenorth> Elukka: in that case just zoom in photoshop, with interpolation turned off 16:34:06 <andythenorth> instead of clicking 4x as often 16:34:13 <andythenorth> or 16x as often 16:34:16 <Elukka> that's not a higher res sprite though 16:34:21 <michi_cc> The current typical 32bpp graphics don't even fit themselves :) 16:34:29 <Elukka> if the sprite was double or four times the resolution there's much more room for detail 16:34:42 <andythenorth> that's a style change :) 16:35:06 <Elukka> not necessarily 16:35:21 <andythenorth> michi_cc: what does it do? Additional realsprites? 16:35:49 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-002-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:35:57 <michi_cc> Extended RealSprite (or however you'd want to call it) for multiple zoom levels and/or 32bpp. 16:36:54 <Elukka> hm. i'll do a quick 2x version of one of my sprites (just one angle) to see how it'd look 16:37:18 <andythenorth> michi_cc: looks ok 16:42:59 <Elukka> so, is there/will there be a trunk implementation of higher res sprites for the extra zoom levels? 16:43:01 <Elukka> because that'd be really nice 16:43:44 <TrueBrain> Elukka: I think that is what michi_cc is hinting about ;) 16:48:43 *** bremerjoe [~chatzilla@p57AEC21D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:49:03 <bremerjoe> Good evening everybody! 16:50:44 *** ptr [~peter@c-5eeaaa31-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:57 *** ptr [~peter@c-5eeaaa31-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #openttd 16:51:52 <TrueBrain> "We received instruction from the Debt Management office, The Presidency, to have your fund approved by the contract Review and Payment Committee" 16:52:53 <Elukka> oh man twice the resolution is lovely 16:53:39 <Elukka> so much more room for detail 16:54:08 <andythenorth> there speaks someone who doesn't have about 250 open tickets for newgrf sets :P 16:55:37 <Elukka> technically i'm supposed to do the rolling stock for CETS, i'm just too lazy to get much done :P 16:56:04 <andythenorth> EZ should be rendered not drawn 16:56:16 <andythenorth> and with the extra angles in CETS, you might seriously consider it 16:56:26 <andythenorth> build one model, render all 16 angles 16:57:33 <Elukka> i'd do that even for default resolution sprites because all those angles get really tedious but i don't have the required rendering wizardry skills 16:57:34 <andythenorth> possibly use UV mapping 16:57:51 <andythenorth> with UV mapping, you draw a net and then wrap it to a mesh 16:57:56 <Elukka> i could do the models easily enough, but i can't make a renderer poop out pixel art 16:58:08 <Elukka> it's possible and i've heard someone does it through arcane scripting magics, i just don't know how 16:58:13 <Elukka> i'd love to know, though 16:58:29 <andythenorth> no idea 16:58:33 <andythenorth> voxels :P 16:59:04 <Elukka> it'd make it immeasurably easier and faster... i don't think i'd use uv maps, i'd just get the basic shape and overpaint that 16:59:05 <TrueBrain> cubicals! 16:59:14 <TrueBrain> what happened to that dude anyway? 16:59:21 <Elukka> which dude 16:59:33 <TrueBrain> our voxel / cubical dude 16:59:43 <andythenorth> we drove him away, he was a fool 17:00:02 <Elukka> can we get a non-fool who can help me set up a rendering thing? :P 17:00:37 <andythenorth> hmm 17:00:46 <andythenorth> this isn't rendered pixel art...but: http://www.bigblockframework.com/ 17:01:12 <TrueBrain> Elukka: I just setup a blender file which renders my lego for me :P 17:01:54 <andythenorth> apparently the best thing is to use something called Qubicle Constructor 17:01:59 <andythenorth> where did I hear that before? :p 17:02:02 <andythenorth> http://www.qubicle-constructor.com/wordpress/tutorials/articles/how-to-create-classic-isometric-pixel-art-with-qubicle-constructor 17:02:29 <Elukka> :o 17:02:45 *** TomyLobo2 [~foo@p549465DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:02:55 <Elukka> is openttd actually isometric? 17:02:57 <Elukka> or dimetric or something 17:03:00 <Elukka> important to get the projection right 17:03:01 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: minecraft for grownups :) 17:03:12 <TrueBrain> Elukka: which app you use? 17:03:12 <andythenorth> Elukka: dimetric 17:03:36 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isometric_graphics_in_video_games_and_pixel_art 17:03:42 <Elukka> i've used kerkythea for general rendering work but it's been having issues 17:03:43 <Elukka> i can do blender too 17:03:59 <TrueBrain> for blender: Isometric, 30 degrees, at a 45 angle 17:04:15 <TrueBrain> 12.5 in 'width' is 1 tile 17:04:37 <TrueBrain> (on a 128x64 resolution) 17:04:57 <Elukka> thanks, i've gotta try it out 17:05:06 <TrueBrain> took me a while to find the right values ... 17:05:08 <Elukka> i'm thinking maybe i'll make my models out of pixel-sized blocks 17:05:12 <TrueBrain> the .blend on te wiki (and tt-forums) is wrong 17:05:14 <TrueBrain> annoying as fuck :P 17:06:01 <Elukka> 24 angles by hand is... tedious as hell 17:06:14 <TrueBrain> unwise :P 17:06:28 <TrueBrain> single change, and redo them all :( 17:06:40 <Elukka> yuuup 17:06:55 <TrueBrain> atm I just hit RunScript, and 2 minutes later I have new files :P 17:07:25 <Elukka> you have script for it? 17:07:30 <TrueBrain> yup 17:07:39 <Elukka> what's it do? 17:07:50 <TrueBrain> render all faces, save them correctly, runs pngcodec over them 17:08:33 <Elukka> if i can have that you'll get all the cookies 17:08:38 *** TomyLobo [~foo@p5494789E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:08:38 *** TomyLobo2 is now known as TomyLobo 17:08:47 <TrueBrain> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/867/ 17:08:51 <TrueBrain> power of Python in Blender :P 17:09:05 <TrueBrain> very specific for my case, but you get the point :) 17:09:27 <TrueBrain> hope to finish my 'master' blender soon; will make sure to publish it 17:09:35 <TrueBrain> (linking to other blend files is AWESOME) 17:12:06 <bremerjoe> hi all, trying to save translated file to the wiki but can not get it link correctly. Could anyone give me a hint? http://wiki.openttd.org/Ladebuchten 17:14:18 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-74-225-216.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 17:14:58 <Yexo> bremerjoe: your article is named "Ladebuchten", it should be named "Ladebuchten/De" 17:15:52 <Yexo> I've now moved it for you 17:15:55 <Yexo> http://wiki.openttd.org/Ladebuchten/De 17:16:37 <Yexo> and I see it's time to run the language script again 17:16:55 <TrueBrain> what does it do? 17:17:26 <Yexo> if you add a new translations and link it from the english page, the script adds links from all translated pages to the new translation 17:18:04 <TrueBrain> nice :) 17:18:07 <Yexo> so in the case above: You add it to "Loading bays", script adds the link to "Ladebuchten/De" from "Estaciones_para_vehÃculos_de_carretera/Es" "Aire_de_chargement/Fr" and "Laadperrons/Nl" 17:18:22 <Yexo> last time I ran that script was somewhere in the summer I think, completely forgot about it 17:18:36 <TrueBrain> should we run it every night? 17:18:39 <Yexo> would be best if it ran every night on the server 17:18:47 <bremerjoe> THX Yexo! Could you tell me how you edited the article name? 17:18:48 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest22099 17:18:49 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFE646.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:18:56 *** Guest22099 [~frank@p5DDFE646.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18:59 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-103-220.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:19:01 <TrueBrain> Yexo: either do it under your own user, or I can move it to www-data or something if you like 17:19:15 <TrueBrain> or do it under your own user, and I will move it :P 17:19:16 <Yexo> bremerjoe: on the top next to "page" and "edit" there is a "move" button 17:19:38 <Yexo> TrueBrain: ok, currently I run it from my laptop. I'll run it again first and later upload it and notify you again 17:19:46 <TrueBrain> great :) 17:19:49 <TrueBrain> useful scripts :) 17:20:00 <bremerjoe> learning step by step. Thanks again Yexo! 17:20:09 <Yexo> you're welcome :) 17:20:52 <bremerjoe> I understand correctly that I need to link mine to the english version by adding |de=Ladebuchten there, right? 17:21:27 <Yexo> yes, but you've already done that 17:21:46 <Yexo> you don't need to edit all other languages, I'll do that (with a script) later 17:21:55 <bremerjoe> OK. Just wanted to make sure I know that this is necessary and not messing up anything 17:22:40 <Yexo> dinner time 17:22:50 <TrueBrain> eet ze Yexo 17:27:20 <JVassie_> doing a mysql query 27k times in php sucks ass 17:27:33 *** Chris_Booth is now known as mdf 17:27:51 <TrueBrain> doing (..) php sucks ass 17:28:12 <JVassie_> ;) 17:28:16 <andythenorth> lol @TrueBrain 17:28:17 *** mdf is now known as Chris_Booth 17:28:45 * JVassie_ shall play RIFT whilst it trundles along 17:28:47 <andythenorth> JVassie_: what are you doing / why? 17:29:35 <JVassie_> i have a table of soem 27k rows 17:29:37 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:29:42 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 17:29:42 <JVassie_> which is a copy of another table 17:30:00 <JVassie_> the new table is using the old tables unique id as a foreign key 17:30:11 <JVassie_> so the new table needs a new unique id 17:30:36 <JVassie_> starting from 0 etc 17:32:23 *** ptr_ [~peter@c-5eeaaa39-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #openttd 17:32:51 *** ptr [~peter@c-5eeaaa31-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:32:51 *** ptr_ is now known as ptr 17:33:57 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:07 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:35:03 <andythenorth> 27k doesn't sound that much 17:35:17 <andythenorth> :) 17:36:12 * andythenorth knows very little about mysql 17:36:37 <andythenorth> couldn't you just drop the old data to csv, then write an import script, using mysql's auto-inc when you add the new record? 17:39:02 *** lordnokon [~LordNokon@41-135-163-215.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:40:52 <Belugas> ... and you're doing youre query once per row??? 17:41:04 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0e029.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 17:42:10 <andythenorth> also, why copy the table? 17:42:15 <andythenorth> why not just add a column? 17:44:35 * andythenorth learns about database normalisation 17:45:10 *** ntah [ntah@221.165.10.54] has joined #openttd 17:45:33 * Belugas learned a ling time ago that sometims, normalization is the opposite of performance 17:45:35 <Belugas> long 17:45:41 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 17:46:32 <Belugas> so, sometimes, for sake of performance, y9u have to sacrifice a bit of normalisation, or put TONS of indexes. Which sometime sucks on inserting 17:47:00 <Belugas> but is fast on reading. since I do more inserts than reads... well... 17:48:30 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0e029.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:52:43 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-prvbrasgw1-fe05dc00-37.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:58:49 <Belugas> -16 :( i will not go out shopping a new guitar today :S 18:01:25 *** ntah [ntah@221.165.10.54] has quit [Quit: ì ìŽë§ ê°ëë€.] 18:03:18 *** encoded [~encoded@adsl-65-23-250-212.prtc.net] has joined #openttd 18:03:38 <encoded> hellloooooo 18:03:56 <encoded> i love TTD, i was playing it off and on till... yesterday 18:04:22 <encoded> only now i found out about openttd 18:04:49 <Belugas> cool :) 18:04:55 <encoded> it's great... but i can bearly see stuff needs a few more zoom levels 18:05:06 <encoded> and the controls too 18:06:04 <TrueBrain> even more zoom levels? 18:06:14 <TrueBrain> I thought 4 times zoomed in should be sufficient, even for a 60" screen 18:06:18 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-26-113-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:06:32 <encoded> not at 1920x1080 18:07:17 <Belugas> what stuff are you talking about? 18:07:23 <Belugas> fonts or items? 18:09:00 <encoded> even at 1280x768 it could be bigger 18:09:39 <encoded> both! 18:09:55 <encoded> i cant belive im the first to comment about it 18:10:34 <andythenorth> it's never been mentioned before ever ever ever :) 18:10:57 <TrueBrain> You are absolutely the first, and this issue hasn't been adressed at all! 18:11:07 <TrueBrain> TO THE BATMOBILE! (*tune starts here*) 18:11:38 <encoded> how do i get a screenshot? 18:11:42 <eberon> I think I'm going to be spending a lot of time lurking in this channel from now on ;) 18:11:51 <TrueBrain> put your screen on a photocopier 18:11:58 <andythenorth> encoded: '?' then 'screenshot' 18:12:07 <andythenorth> unless you have opengfx, then I have no idea :) 18:12:32 <TrueBrain> eberon: you and the other 114 people in here :D 18:12:34 <andythenorth> encoded: if you were playing TTD, I figure you have the original graphics? 18:12:57 <encoded> i went with the openfx 18:13:14 <andythenorth> well it seems to also be '?' in opengfx 18:14:00 <andythenorth> also if you go to 'advanced settings' -> 'interface' -> 'display options' -> 'maximum zoom level' 18:14:06 <andythenorth> what value do you have? 18:14:19 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: start first by asking which version he is playing ;) 18:14:23 <andythenorth> ach 18:14:28 * andythenorth forgets these things 18:14:50 <andythenorth> hg pull -u; make run -j13 is like a daily thing for me 18:14:58 <encoded> latest stable 18:15:13 <TrueBrain> @topic -2 18:15:13 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: topic [<channel>] 18:15:17 <TrueBrain> @topic #openttd -2 18:15:18 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: topic [<channel>] 18:15:21 <TrueBrain> ffs 18:15:25 <TrueBrain> how does this work? 18:15:27 <TrueBrain> @topic 18:15:27 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 1.1.4, 1.2.0-beta1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, ever | English only 18:15:34 <TrueBrain> encoded: ^^ 18:15:52 <TrueBrain> "'Latest' is not a valid version, ever" 18:15:54 <TrueBrain> that part, to be clear ;) 18:15:57 <Belugas> [13:16] <TrueBrain> put your screen on a photocopier <-- lol!!!! Made my day :D I DO LOVE YOU, It's now official ! 18:16:05 <TrueBrain> <3 Belugas 18:16:21 <encoded> http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/6033/ganfieldtransport22ndse.png 18:16:46 <eberon> mm, abundant room to look at the terrain 18:16:53 <eberon> you must love that 18:17:01 <andythenorth> encoded: looks lovely :) 18:17:14 <andythenorth> there is a way to get big gui, I forget how 18:17:59 <Aali> its a grf, its in bananas 18:18:05 <Aali> also, long time no see #openttd 18:18:05 <encoded> but youre saying i can get more zoom levels in latest beta? 18:18:09 <TrueBrain> nomnomnom 18:18:16 <andythenorth> openttd 1.2.0-beta1 has extra zoom levels 18:18:17 <andythenorth> http://www.openttd.org/en/news/159 18:20:54 <encoded> thx i'll check it out later 18:24:21 <eberon> guys, I have a question of clarification here 18:24:23 <eberon> http://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_Designs#Diagonal_track 18:24:56 <eberon> Is this trying to state that when a train needs to move on an angle, it slows down (seems obvious, you can even watch it happen) or that one type of track that orients in one direction is actually slower than another (seems absurd). 18:26:07 <eberon> if the former, I'm not sure "move slower on angled track" is exactly precise, not to be a nitpick, probably a more accurate way of saying it is that trains slow down for tracks that turn/change direction 18:26:56 <TrueBrain> diagonal track != angled track 18:26:59 <TrueBrain> I guess there you go wrong 18:27:18 <SmatZ> In OpenTTD, trains move slower on angled track (thanks SmatZ!), 18:27:25 <SmatZ> yay, I am thanked to there! :) 18:27:46 <eberon> yeah, I was going to say, IMO the header there confuses me too 18:28:13 <eberon> are we talking about tracks that are not perpenticular to the isometric view of the terrain or tracks that change direction? 18:28:21 <eberon> sorry if I'm coming off nutty 18:29:13 <TrueBrain> angled track, 2 pieces of track with an angle 18:29:18 <TrueBrain> diagonal track, track that goes diagonal 18:30:52 <SmatZ> on || or == tracks, the train moves slower 18:31:00 <eberon> wow, really? 18:31:03 <SmatZ> from your point of view 18:31:08 <eberon> it has the same max speed but it has lower acceleration? 18:31:14 <SmatZ> no 18:31:24 <eberon> so you mean pixel distance on the screen 18:31:31 <SmatZ> yeah, something like that 18:31:40 <SmatZ> the problem is that it slows down the train behind it 18:31:50 <SmatZ> eg. when you have two 10-tiles long trains 18:32:07 <SmatZ> the second one is waiting behind the first one, the first one is stopped 18:32:13 <SmatZ> and you start the first one 18:32:19 <SmatZ> on a // or \ track 18:32:19 <eberon> mind = blown 18:32:36 <eberon> the signaling page both excites and brings great fear to me 18:32:38 <SmatZ> they will soon keep some constant distance 18:32:57 <eberon> ah, so openttd's contributors do consider it a flaw 18:33:20 <SmatZ> but once the first train enters a || or == track (long enough), you will see the second trains will get more near to the first one, possibly slowing down or even stopping 18:33:26 <Aali> its not something you need to worry about 99% of the time 18:33:36 <SmatZ> it's been that way since the dawn of times 18:33:45 <SmatZ> eg. TTO 18:33:54 <andythenorth> hmm 18:34:16 <andythenorth> do some newgrfs really have trains that change direction according to orientation of route? 18:34:19 * andythenorth calls BS on that 18:34:32 <andythenorth> length / direction /s 18:34:45 <SmatZ> on heavily used tracks, like in #openttdcoop games, it sometimes is a problem 18:34:58 *** ptr [~peter@c-5eeaaa39-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:10 <andythenorth> "The following examples have been created under the assumption that the length of the train also changes on diagonal track. This seems to be true for only some NewGRFs! (Iirc, it is true for the JapanSet and wrong for the default trains.)" 18:35:11 <SmatZ> andythenorth: length of a vehicle can't change outside of a depot 18:35:37 <SmatZ> andythenorth: maybe there are some news I don't know about :) 18:35:56 *** ptr [~peter@c-5eeaaa39-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #openttd 18:36:09 <SmatZ> but... just imagine an engine suddenly gets longer... so the wagon behind it has to hop back, or whatever 18:36:26 <andythenorth> smells of more wiki crap to me 18:36:39 <andythenorth> curvature you can get 18:36:45 <andythenorth> orientation is not a varact2 afaik 18:36:50 <andythenorth> unless it's in the 80+ vars 18:37:03 <SmatZ> actually, a newgrf can do that 18:37:10 <Aali> sure its not some rounding "error"? 18:37:21 <SmatZ> but it triggers a "newgrf bug" in openttd 18:37:26 <Aali> since default wagons are all half-tile 18:37:31 <Aali> and I assume japset isn't 18:37:32 <glx> @topic get -2 18:37:32 <DorpsGek> glx: 'Latest' is not a valid version, ever 18:37:35 <glx> TrueBrain: ^^ 18:37:43 <glx> "get" is the word :) 18:38:11 <TrueBrain> glx: tnx :) 18:38:20 <andythenorth> hmm 18:38:25 * andythenorth roams the 80+ vars 18:38:36 <andythenorth> I could change graphics depending on where a ship/plane is trying to get to :P 18:39:17 <andythenorth> hmm 18:39:21 <andythenorth> there is a var for direction 18:40:00 <Belugas> there is an app for that 18:40:13 <SmatZ> you are not the first to ponder about "smooth" vehicle rotation, by supplying different sprites depending on the "angle" of the vehicle 18:40:16 <SmatZ> hehe 18:40:17 <glx> it's an ithing ? 18:40:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23685 /trunk/src/lang/ (norwegian_bokmal.txt swedish.txt vietnamese.txt welsh.txt): 18:40:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:40:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 67 changes by mantaray 18:40:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: swedish - 25 changes by tobjork 18:40:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 1 changes by nglekhoi 18:40:42 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: welsh - 50 changes by kazzie 18:40:57 <andythenorth> SmatZ: I have no intention of smooth rotation :P 18:41:05 <andythenorth> there are curvature props anyway. CETS uses them 18:41:07 <SmatZ> :) 18:41:56 <Belugas> hehe @ glx 18:46:04 <andythenorth> he 18:46:10 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.85.182.147] has joined #openttd 18:46:16 <andythenorth> 80+ var 3F 18:46:22 <andythenorth> Cargo transit time, in +185 ticks 18:46:33 * andythenorth wonders which cargos catch fire if not shipped in time 18:47:01 <andythenorth> also....ice 18:47:18 <andythenorth> new industry: iceberg harvester 18:47:25 <andythenorth> new ship: iceberg tug 18:49:47 <bremerjoe> andythenorth: there are chemicals that need to be cooled as they would burn at regular outdoors temperature, at least my former gf told me so (she: Dipl. chem) 18:50:27 <bremerjoe> so if the dry ice used for cooling is used up after certain time the stuff would burn 18:53:03 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 18:54:39 * andythenorth ponders road vehicles that wheelie whilst overtaking 18:54:45 <andythenorth> hmm 18:54:50 <andythenorth> whatever happened to newgrf smoke? 18:55:45 *** ZirconiumX [50019723@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:56:14 <ZirconiumX> Hello everyone 18:56:30 * ZirconiumX is having issues with Squirrel 18:56:46 <TrueBrain> give it a nut 18:57:04 <bremerjoe> http://jalopnik.com/5823177/whats-the-most-awesome-wheelie-ever-done 18:57:20 <glx> TrueBrain was faster than me :) 18:57:23 <ZirconiumX> AITown::GetTownCount() returns and int 18:57:31 <ZirconiumX> s/and/an 18:57:56 <ZirconiumX> yet when I put it in a for() loop: 18:58:28 <ZirconiumX> for (int loop_a = 0; loop_a < AITown.GetTownCount(); loop_a++) 18:58:33 <ZirconiumX> it spits it out 18:58:36 <bremerjoe> squirrel + nut = squirrel taking of with nut, so no more programming 18:58:42 <andythenorth> do while i < 1: i=0; 18:58:54 <ZirconiumX> Unless you are watching Ice Age 18:59:11 <TrueBrain> "it spits it out" 18:59:17 <TrueBrain> it mostly gives you a bit more, then a broken nut 18:59:19 *** Simon_ [~chatzilla@S010600259c415685.no.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 18:59:27 <TrueBrain> than 18:59:40 <glx> one day you'll learn it :) 18:59:45 <TrueBrain> keep hoping :P 18:59:48 <ZirconiumX> Your script made an error: comparison between '0' and 'function' 19:00:00 <glx> store the value in a var 19:00:08 <TrueBrain> ZirconiumX: odd. You sure you have the () 19:00:12 <TrueBrain> anyway, better to use AITownList 19:00:19 <TrueBrain> and foreach () 19:00:23 <Simon_> Hi, I'm still pretty new to openttd.. I seem to be having troubles using http://wiki.openttd.org/Orders#Unload_if_accepted 19:00:30 <ZirconiumX> http://pastebin.com/TNypRhuH 19:00:43 <ZirconiumX> ^^ is main.nut 19:01:00 <glx> for (local loop_a = 0; loop_a < AITown.GetTownCount; loop_a++) { // error 19:01:05 <glx> yes missing () :) 19:01:15 <TrueBrain> I love it when my first guess is right 19:01:23 <TrueBrain> too bad your first copy/paste did have the () 19:01:35 <TrueBrain> but using AITownList will speed up your script by a lot 19:01:47 <Simon_> Whenever I select "Unload if accepted" the game deselects the order to unload.. net effect I'm only able to Unload All 19:01:59 <Simon_> am I missing something? 19:03:04 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-26-113-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:03:23 <bremerjoe> Simon: that is normal for the game, nothing missed. If possible it will unload all 19:03:45 <bremerjoe> if cargo is not accepted at station it will leave again 19:03:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:03:50 <bremerjoe> with all cargo 19:04:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:04:05 <Simon_> The game will unload cargo that isn't accepted at the station, then reload the cargo to the train 19:04:39 <Simon_> exactly, so does that drop down box not work? 19:06:14 <ZirconiumX> @TrueBrain - So squirrel represents an array by usng an int? 19:06:21 *** ptr [~peter@c-5eeaaa39-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:22 <TrueBrain> huh? no! 19:06:30 <TrueBrain> your script is missing a (), that is why it fails 19:06:34 <TrueBrain> so you can add a (), and it will work 19:06:38 <ZirconiumX> I have 19:06:40 <TrueBrain> but using for-loops like that is inefficient 19:06:46 *** ptr [~peter@c-5eeaaa39-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #openttd 19:06:46 <TrueBrain> using AITownList with foreach is much more efficient 19:07:07 <ZirconiumX> Ah - you didn't say that 19:07:15 <TrueBrain> I did, but that is not really important 19:07:33 <andythenorth> is it possible to write an unclosed for loop in squirrel? 19:07:50 <andythenorth> those tend to be performance sucks :P 19:12:55 <ZirconiumX> so foreach (val in townlist1) { 19:13:02 <ZirconiumX> or something like that 19:13:14 * ZirconiumX apologises for being noobish 19:14:41 <ZirconiumX> Also, Shouldn't there be a 1.1.4 API version? 19:17:49 * ZirconiumX realises no-one wants to talk to a noob like me 19:18:08 <bremerjoe> you do not want answers from a noob like me... 19:18:22 *** namad8 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 19:18:36 <ZirconiumX> Well, they are better than no answers at all 19:21:14 <bremerjoe> not really, just showing you that the channel is still being updated, so no internet connection issue or program freeze... 19:23:47 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@D5225594.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:25:10 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:31:08 <bremerjoe> in spite of several users timeouts 19:32:48 <ZirconiumX> hehe 19:32:54 <bremerjoe> btw: extra zoom levels in 1.20beta rock, finally able to really see the signals on 1920x1080 (24") 19:33:06 <bremerjoe> THX to all who made that possible! 19:39:31 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-26-113-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20111221135037]] 19:41:59 <Elukka> yeah it's pretty great 19:46:20 <Terkhen> :) 19:47:13 *** Simon_ [~chatzilla@S010600259c415685.no.shawcable.net] has left #openttd [] 19:47:13 <Belugas> yup, it's pretty and it's great 19:51:28 <bremerjoe> would not exactly call it pretty with regular 8bpp ;) but I am still grateful that it exists, makes some tasks much easier and when I want to enjoy the results I zoom out further anyway 19:53:49 <encoded> openttd is in C++? 19:54:10 <encoded> with opengl or dx ? 19:54:36 <encoded> or something else? 19:55:42 <ZirconiumX> @encoded OpenTTD is in C and uses SDL or Allegro (or other stuff) 19:55:57 <ZirconiumX> But AFAIK it doesn't use GL 19:59:56 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD is very much in C++ 20:00:51 <TrueBrain> and for Windows GDI is used, much faster than DX I can only imagine :) 20:02:37 * Belugas finds it darn pretty in 8bpp. been like that for so many times! 32bp is so... realistic . grumble grumble 20:04:51 <encoded> ok so does it use SDL or not? 20:05:12 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23686 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4921] (r23413): Infrastructure count of canals/locks/ship depots wasn't updated properly when a company went into bankruptcy or was taken over. 20:05:48 <michi_cc> encoded: Yes :) 20:05:49 <ZirconiumX> Quote from configure 20:05:56 <TrueBrain> encoded: it is one of the possible video drivers 20:05:59 <ZirconiumX> checking for SDL: no 20:06:10 <ZirconiumX> checking for Allegro: no 20:06:12 <TrueBrain> encoded: it is a modular system; other video outputs can be used, depending on system (OS, libs, ..) 20:06:19 <encoded> ZirconiumX, you suck, you dont know what language its written in 20:06:24 <encoded> *cough* 20:06:42 <TrueBrain> for anything not Windows SDL is very common 20:06:46 <TrueBrain> for Windows it is almost always GDI 20:06:53 <TrueBrain> for DOS it has to be allegro 20:07:06 <TrueBrain> Windows can use SDL (not recommended) 20:07:07 <michi_cc> for OS X it is Cocoa 20:07:12 <TrueBrain> ah, good one michi_cc :) 20:07:20 <TrueBrain> I believe OSX can no longer use SDL :P 20:07:29 <TrueBrain> crappy support :( 20:07:45 <michi_cc> It can compile with SDL, but reports say the result isn't very pretty. 20:07:57 <TrueBrain> SDL needs to be bootstrapped, which is silly at best :P 20:08:06 <TrueBrain> owh, I thought we just dropped the support; easier :P 20:08:32 <TrueBrain> but like using SDL on Windows: dont :D 20:08:53 <encoded> i wish Windows(R) windows worked like TTD windows 20:09:02 <TrueBrain> you do? Why .. 20:09:10 <TrueBrain> TT windows annoy the crap out of me :P 20:09:16 <encoded> they always know where to pop up 20:09:19 <TrueBrain> X on the wrong side ... OK/Cancel always reversed ... :P 20:09:57 <TrueBrain> well, 'wrong' and 'reversed' are of course up for debate, obviously :) 20:10:04 <ZirconiumX> @TrueBrain - that is a good feature - becuase you always click Yes accidentally 20:10:28 <ZirconiumX> Also, I note that a lot of smileys are being used :p 20:10:53 <encoded> i still dont understand wtf is up with graphics 20:11:11 <TrueBrain> encoded: turn them around? 20:11:17 <encoded> SDL can use gdi and opengl and dx in windows 20:11:58 <encoded> if youre using SDL for linux, why would it be bad to use it for windows? 20:12:15 <ZirconiumX> OMFG - Hal the computer is running an OpenTTD AI 20:12:19 <TrueBrain> encoded: such questions go so deep, I wonder if you have the time to sit down for it to listen to the complete answer :) 20:12:26 <TrueBrain> encoded: I wonder if I can do it off by replying: because it is faster 20:12:29 <TrueBrain> so I will try: 20:12:34 <TrueBrain> encoded: because it is faster to not use SDL 20:12:35 * ZirconiumX pictures the pixelated men running around 20:13:25 <encoded> but but but... Crysis and Skrim and assasins creed and such use DX 20:13:34 <TrueBrain> then again, they are 3D games 20:13:44 <TrueBrain> so it is like comparing a chair with a plane 20:13:45 <encoded> ok ok 20:13:55 <TrueBrain> and SDL != DX :) 20:13:56 <ZirconiumX> Windows GDI is direct to the screen - SDL has to communicate with Windows to show the picture 20:14:00 <TrueBrain> you don't see them using SDL, do you? :) 20:14:27 <encoded> ok, i'll investigate that SDL claim later 20:14:38 <ZirconiumX> GL is not much use either - IIRC you cannot create buttons 20:14:45 <TrueBrain> libSDL: if possible, avoid 20:15:05 <TrueBrain> ZirconiumX: lol; trolling much; that or you have no clue what you talk about :) 20:15:41 <ZirconiumX> I know what I'm talking about 20:15:48 <TrueBrain> you could have fooled me there :) 20:15:52 * ZirconiumX digs out SDL for Dummies 20:16:20 <TrueBrain> encoded: the only reason I guess we still use SDL for Linux, is that 90% of the systems have it, or can easily install it 20:16:38 <TrueBrain> I haven't found a (good) video library yet that does the same 20:17:09 <TrueBrain> SDL is nice and all, for a small project; to quickly make something. If you don't want to bother with performance too much (or if your application is much slower than your blitter) 20:17:22 <TrueBrain> it builds easy. Works the same for many platforms 20:17:24 <TrueBrain> very useful for that 20:17:47 <ZirconiumX> But very slow 20:18:10 <encoded> ok, relax you threw the ball to SDLs corner, i'll investigate them later 20:18:29 <TrueBrain> a few other problems exist with SDL 20:18:30 <andythenorth> hmm 20:18:36 <TrueBrain> the ypromise us 2.0 for ... years? now 20:18:39 <andythenorth> ottd windows have the controls in the correct places 20:18:40 <encoded> i'll tell them openttd is talking shit about them ;p 20:18:48 <TrueBrain> I don't think anyone believes it will ever come out :P 20:18:50 <TrueBrain> or was it 1.3? 20:18:55 <TrueBrain> can't remember which next version they promised :) 20:18:59 <TrueBrain> it should solve "all" problems 20:19:04 <TrueBrain> but for that it has to be released :D 20:19:40 <ZirconiumX> SDL is still in 1.0 20:19:54 <TrueBrain> and that is why we all use 1.2.14+ I guess 20:19:55 <TrueBrain> lolz 20:20:04 <ZirconiumX> sorry 1.2.X 20:20:05 <TrueBrain> encoded: I wouldn't call it 'shit'. SDL is good for what it does 20:20:11 <TrueBrain> GDI just does a better job :) 20:20:18 <TrueBrain> (but only rusn on Windows) 20:20:22 <ZirconiumX> @TrueBrain Not fair - you've got a time machine! 20:21:17 <ZirconiumX> 1.3 is supposed to be the new version 20:21:27 <ZirconiumX> (still not released) 20:22:14 * ZirconiumX bursts out with laughter 20:22:17 <glx> 1.3 is dead since main dev is gone I think 20:22:26 <ZirconiumX> SDL 1.3 is currently under active development and beta is anticipated Summer 2011 20:23:18 <TrueBrain> encoded: in regards to DX, there is not really a performance gain to be expected by using a 3D API over a 2D API (which GDI is). Of course we can be wrong, not sure if anyone ever tried :) 20:23:43 <TrueBrain> we do have OpenGL implementations, but they have either never been stable, or very slow 20:23:55 <TrueBrain> (again, drawing 2D on a 3D canvas is a bit silly :D) 20:24:00 <ZirconiumX> @TrueBrain - 32,000bpp for DirectX? 20:24:19 <ZirconiumX> Open3TD 20:24:31 <glx> <TrueBrain> it builds easy. Works the same for many platforms <-- even on OSX ? 20:24:33 <ZirconiumX> OpenTT3D? 20:24:41 <TrueBrain> glx: yes 20:24:44 <TrueBrain> see OpenDUNE 20:24:54 <TrueBrain> it needs the silly bootstrap 20:24:56 <TrueBrain> but so does Windows :) 20:24:58 <encoded> ive been here a short time, but.. dunno... i find ZirconiumX extremly annoying 20:25:02 <encoded> *cough* 20:25:04 <glx> I remember the tweak for windows yes 20:25:23 <ZirconiumX> @encoded - you haven't seen anything yet. 20:25:28 <glx> but it's mainly because dune2 is timer based 20:25:36 <TrueBrain> hmm, I cannot find our benchmarks in regards to SDL and GDI. Sad :( 20:25:47 <TrueBrain> ZirconiumX: I would take encoded advise, and not see it as a challenge 20:26:55 <Mek> someone mentioned openttd 3d? http://93.157.1.37/~marijn/openttd3d-1.png ;) (a rather useless/silly experiment) 20:27:16 <encoded> anyway im gonna try openttd a bit on ReactOS, if it uses gdi it might reveal a bug or 3! 20:27:17 <ZirconiumX> @Mek - That is very good 20:27:42 <encoded> Mek, ZOMG i wants! 20:29:12 <Mek> :) it isn't very usable yet, not interaction possible etc 20:30:21 <TrueBrain> encoded: good luck ;) Let us know! 20:30:31 <TrueBrain> Mek: so that makes you alive, nice to know your trigger-words :P 20:30:58 <ZirconiumX> @Mek - who cares - judging by encoded's response you have a fan club dedicated to just looking at it 20:31:58 <Mek> yeah :) so far it is mostly a "I'm bored during the holidays, lets have some fun with opengl" project 20:32:00 * encoded discovers http://www.sfml-dev.org/features.php 20:32:45 <TrueBrain> Mek: http://mc.liefdeis.com/rts/test.html <- taking something similar to the next level: in browsers :p (WARNING: only works if you have a sane video card on a sane (sorry linux) OS) 20:33:15 <TrueBrain> encoded: yup; I am waiting for the day it is more commonly available :) 20:35:16 <encoded> ok g2g, bye guys 20:35:19 <TrueBrain> o/ 20:35:26 <encoded> \o 20:35:33 <encoded> i'll idle until i come back 20:35:58 <TrueBrain> oeh, so we can fill your backlog with highlights like thisone encoded 20:36:02 <TrueBrain> that can be very funny encoded 20:36:07 <TrueBrain> or better yet: I just encoded my lego pngs 20:36:16 <TrueBrain> and I wonder how to get my encoded pngs in a tar or grf 20:36:23 <TrueBrain> I read michi_cc was working on getting such encoded pngs there 20:36:31 <TrueBrain> would be quiet epic to have, dont you agree, encoded? 20:36:32 <TrueBrain> hihihihihihih 20:36:34 <TrueBrain> *trololol* 20:36:35 <TrueBrain> sorry :D 20:37:26 * ZirconiumX decides to have TrueBrain encoded into a .tar.gz file 20:37:53 <ZirconiumX> which is a tar file encoded with Gnu zip 20:38:09 * ZirconiumX bursts out with laughter 20:38:34 <ZirconiumX> wouldn't you agree that I am being a bit of a <encoded> 20:38:52 <ZirconiumX> At least I am not the only one 20:41:37 <Yexo> TrueBrain: that rts/test.html works fine for me (under linux) 20:41:47 <TrueBrain> Yexo: it works in special conditions :) 20:41:53 <TrueBrain> I believe Firefox + NVidia 20:42:05 <TrueBrain> either ATI or Nvidia is still blacklisted, can't really remember :P 20:42:14 <Yexo> I did test in firefox, and I do have NVidia :) 20:42:21 <TrueBrain> well, there you have it :) 20:42:23 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:42:33 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:45 <TrueBrain> on Windows it works under "almost" all browsers/GPUs .. with the clear exception of Intel GM GPUs :P 20:42:48 <TrueBrain> those are not GPUs :) 20:42:51 <Yexo> about the for-loop before to iterate over towns: it's not only slower, it's (more importantly) completely wrong 20:43:16 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:43:25 <TrueBrain> Yexo: lol; nowedays town array is not sequential, is it? :) 20:43:43 <TrueBrain> something I can never get used to :( 20:44:22 <Yexo> it never was 20:44:24 <Yexo> brb 20:44:39 <TrueBrain> never? You sure? :D 20:50:29 <Belugas> y9u mean there are holes in it? 20:50:32 <TrueBrain> awh, SVN doesnt go back far enough :'( Sad sad panda! But okay, you are right :) I still somehow keep forgetting ;) 20:55:46 *** ZirconiumX [50019723@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 20:57:56 <andythenorth> oh he's gone :) 20:58:16 <andythenorth> when he's here, there's usually more arguising 20:58:42 <TrueBrain> people like him come and go. White noise, I guess. 20:59:05 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-26-113-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:09:05 *** XaTriX [5b791789@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:44:30 *** eberon [~eberon@angilas.ur.northwestern.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:14 *** eberon [~Lee@99-135-137-23.lightspeed.evtnil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 21:45:40 <eberon> hi everyone, I'm running 1.1.4 and I can't seem to assign a bus to one of my bus+train stations, no matter what part of it I click on 21:46:08 <eberon> is it maybe possible there's a square or two of road right inside/next to the city owned by a competitor that I'm not allowed to use? 21:46:29 <MNIM> eberon: are you sure it's a bus station and not a truck station? 21:47:13 <eberon> blah! it is a truck loading area 21:47:17 <eberon> thanks for the advice 21:49:50 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 8.0/20111115183541]] 21:51:44 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:58 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-26-113-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20111221135037]] 22:05:17 <eberon> another question -- is there any way to quickly tell elevation? I kind of hoped it would be in the 'about this square' tool 22:06:40 <Progman> it isn't? 22:08:08 <Belugas> cool.. google "openttd elevation" first hit : http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=46485 22:08:22 <eberon> owner, cost to clear, coordinates, and local authority is all I get =\ 22:08:36 <Afdal> So can anyone explain to me why trains service for maintenance more often when you 22:08:48 <Afdal> have a path signal leading them to their depot? 22:09:15 <Afdal> Here's an example http://gyazo.com/80ff67ee9cf272498822a833c8964ba6 versus http://gyazo.com/6d1bce1d95ddbcfc30220ddfd5a9b900 22:09:36 <eberon> Belugas: thanks, actually, now that I think about it, the elevation is there, it's just the third coordinate 22:10:11 <eberon> Belugas: but I wouldn't have really thought about it hard enough to realize it until seeing that person's forum post confirming it's in there. 22:10:46 <Afdal> Someone tried explaining to be earlier that the way pathfinding works, it looks for a depot ahead of the reserved track 22:11:22 <Afdal> and a block signal before a two-way path signal allows a track to reserve the whole block between them 22:11:56 <Afdal> meaning there's more time to coincide with the tick where it looks for a depot, and more probability to service 22:12:05 <Afdal> But that doesn't explain a one-way path signal 22:12:46 <Afdal> And the service rate between a one-way and a two-way should be different, but I haven't found any significant difference 22:15:55 <Afdal> Did Belugas leave just after I typed that :( 22:17:40 <Terkhen> good night 22:25:11 <Aali> Afdal: do you have trains going through the depot who are not targeting it per se? 22:26:05 <Aali> might be that the penalties sometimes shift in favor of the depot track 22:26:29 <Afdal> I don't think so 22:26:39 <Aali> servicing without a service order was always unpredictable anyway 22:27:12 <Afdal> At least not on the path signalled example 22:27:16 <Afdal> I checked one time for that 22:27:25 <Afdal> they all said going to such-and-such for maintenance 22:27:49 <Afdal> brb 22:28:38 <Aali> but, if anything, the PBS solution should make them service a tiny bit less 22:28:55 <Aali> since a train can block the path to the depot with its own reservation 22:29:09 *** ptr [~peter@c-5eeaaa39-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 22:33:39 <bremerjoe> g2g, goodn8 22:33:53 *** bremerjoe [~chatzilla@p57AEC21D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #openttd [] 22:35:24 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@D5225594.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 22:40:41 <michi_cc> Afdal: A train searches a depot for automatic servicing in exactly two situations: a) When the pathfinder is called to extend the path or choose between tracks on a junction tile, and b) when the game time jumps to the next day. 22:41:14 *** encoded [~encoded@adsl-65-23-250-212.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:42:39 <michi_cc> Afdal: This search is limited by how many tiles (or more precisely by pathfinder cost) the appropriate config variable defines. The search starts always at the last reserved tile furthest away from a path. 22:44:22 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-16-139.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 22:44:59 <michi_cc> Afdal: In your example that means that in the first image, the depot search (if service is needed) is done either when entering the junction tile leading to the depot (and also starting at this tile) or whenever a new day rolls over, starting from the tile of the train engine. 22:46:41 <Afdal> you mean the last reserved tile furthest from the front of the train right? 22:46:56 <michi_cc> Afdal: In the second image, the new day search will start at the end of the reserved path, which means that for the area between the last and the second last signal before the junction tile the starting tile is the junction tile *and not the train's engine tile*, so the depot is closer pathfinding wise with path signals. 22:47:48 <Afdal> Yeah but 22:48:03 <Afdal> trains only reserve track on a block signal before a two-way path signal 22:48:12 <Afdal> My example uses a one-way path signal 22:49:43 <Afdal> Don't you mean the area *on* the junction tile? 22:49:48 <Afdal> not before it? 22:51:12 <Afdal> Let me see if I'm understanding this correct: for the purposes of pathfinding, track reservation only counts entire tiles, and pathfinding happens BEFORE the actual track-specific reservation happens? 22:51:33 <michi_cc> For path signals pathfinding is initiated when entering the tile the signal is on. 22:52:27 <Afdal> So.... How is that different for the two signals 22:52:35 <michi_cc> For non-path signals nothing happens when the signal tile is entered. 22:52:37 <Afdal> I'm sorry if I'm still not understand this, it's confusing :( 22:53:06 <Afdal> Am I right about this then? 22:53:12 <Afdal> Let me see if I'm understanding this correct: for the purposes of pathfinding, track reservation only counts entire tiles, and pathfinding happens BEFORE the actual track-specific reservation happens? 22:53:47 <Afdal> that doesn't seem to make sense actually 22:54:53 <michi_cc> Track reservation doesn't count anything. Pathfinding happens if needed, and if the train is (or is entering) a signal block with path signals, the result of the pathfinding is marked as the reserved path. 22:55:51 <Afdal> So the path signal adds the length of its possible track reservation to the servicing pathfinding? 22:56:53 <Afdal> I still don't see how that would bias it to service more often 22:57:03 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:58:02 <michi_cc> The originating tile of the depot search is the last tile of the reserved path furthest away from the train engine. For a signal block not having any path signals, this is equivalent to the tile the engine itself is on. 22:58:38 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: Sla Mutant Co-Op for Renegade - coming back soon] 22:59:44 <Afdal> Uh, so a train on the track with a path signal before the depot split will activate its pathfinding *sooner*? 22:59:57 <Afdal> If so, how would that make it service more often 23:01:04 <Afdal> Originally when this was explained to me I was thinking that the path signal gives more of a chance for a depot checking tick to coincide with the train while its on that path 23:01:24 <Afdal> twice as much time, in fact 23:01:56 <Afdal> But how does that work if a train reserves only one of the pathways anyway 23:02:41 <michi_cc> A path signal does not lead to more chances for finding a depot, it only changes the time/location the search might be done. 23:03:14 <Afdal> Okay then, so... 23:03:21 <Afdal> How does it end up with more servicing 23:03:48 <Afdal> I've tested this pretty thoroughly too, 23:03:54 <Eddi|zuHause> a path signal may prevent a depot visit in some cases where the distance between the signal and the depot is very high 23:04:09 <Afdal> the example with a path signal definitely results in significantly higher servicing 23:04:21 <Eddi|zuHause> because if a path is reserved beyond the depot, it cannot be changed to go into the depot afterwards 23:04:34 <Afdal> yeah 23:04:39 <michi_cc> Are you sure it actually does end up with more servicing, e.g. do the trains are actually in need of servicing when passing the last signal or passing the junction tile, respectively? 23:05:16 <Afdal> Yeah, an easy way to test this without counting is to place another depot right on the track after the first depot 23:05:54 <Afdal> well, I'll count it again just to be sure 23:06:01 <Afdal> hold on 23:06:18 <michi_cc> And, also important, how close are the trains on the track? Is it possible that the non-path signal is still red when a depot search (via the new day route) is initiated? A red non-path signals has a pathfinder penalty which a path signals has not. 23:09:26 <Afdal> the servicing rate with a path signal is nearly twice as high as with block or presignals 23:09:55 <Afdal> Is it possible that the non-path signal is still red when a depot search (via the new day route) is initiated? Which signal? 23:10:31 <Afdal> the signal at the split? 23:11:10 <Afdal> No, I don't think so 23:11:23 <Afdal> those depots are already at the maximum possible distance from their main track 23:11:42 <Afdal> If I separate them any further trains don't service at all 23:11:48 <Afdal> Because they can't find the depots 23:12:18 <Afdal> so the depot search must be happening right on or very close to the split 23:15:38 <Afdal> a successful depot search, that is 23:19:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has left #openttd [] 23:21:24 <Afdal> In fact 23:21:26 <Afdal> I'll even say this 23:21:34 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:21:41 <Afdal> On the presignaled version, 23:22:19 <Afdal> if a train is making the exit signal on the main track red when another train gets to the junction, it will take the depot path regardless if it needs to service or not 23:22:34 <Afdal> Whereas with the path signaled version, it won't 23:22:54 <Afdal> And yet the path signaled version *still* has higher train to depot rates 23:23:55 <michi_cc> Savegame and which version? 23:24:04 <Afdal> 1.1.4 23:24:10 <Afdal> Shall I upload it? 23:25:05 <michi_cc> Yes. I don't remember any major changes between 1.1.4 and 1.2.0-beta1 that should affect depot searching. 23:26:11 <Afdal> Here http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2785467/Double%20Trax%2C%20Inc..sav 23:27:47 <Afdal> It's better to test the disparity between servicing on those depots with the cyclotrons 23:28:09 <Afdal> to be absolutely sure there's no involvement with the pathfinding from those priority merges just ahead ont eh track 23:30:21 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:34:34 <Afdal> For example, over a 2 year period, for two of those depots 23:34:46 <Afdal> 14 trains in total will service 23:34:51 <Afdal> with regular signals 23:35:00 <Afdal> With a path signal in front, they'll service 27 times 23:35:08 *** FLHerne [~francis@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:38:16 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:39:47 <Afdal> the presignals before a depot are a bad idea now that I think of it, because of this 23:39:48 <Afdal> Afdal On the presignaled version, 23:39:50 <Afdal> Afdal if a train is making the exit signal on the main track red when another train gets to the junction, it will take the depot path regardless if it needs to service or not 23:40:06 <Afdal> Even so, the servicing rate between block signaled and presignaled depots is roughly the same 23:40:20 <michi_cc> The answer is actually very easy, I'm just not sure if it really is intended behaviour or a bug. 23:40:34 <Afdal> :o 23:41:26 <michi_cc> The check for serving on pathfinding is only done if a path reservation happens but not without path reservation. This means the non-path signal version has to rely purely on the "new day" check. 23:41:52 <Afdal> oh, really? 23:41:55 <Afdal> interesting 23:42:23 <Afdal> Also interesting is how that check was balanced so well with the new day check 23:43:15 <Afdal> So it has nothing to do with probability then? 23:43:40 <Afdal> the difference between the two, I mean 23:44:14 <Afdal> Are you an OpenTTD developer? 23:44:25 <Afdal> We should see if this is a bug or not 23:45:09 <michi_cc> The non-path signal variant searches for a depot (if the train actually needs service that is) whenever a new game day starts. The path signal variant does the search *additionally* when extending the reservation at a path signal. 23:45:47 <Afdal> cool 23:46:05 <Afdal> Thanks a lot, so nice to finally understand this 23:46:06 <Yexo> I think the reason for that was that if you have a bit longer signal blocks a train with a path reservation would never find a depot since it would always have a too long path 23:46:31 <Yexo> the exception is when it extends the reservation, since at that point it can start searching from the head of the train instead of from the next signal 23:46:40 <Afdal> You might want to add it to both signal types then 23:46:55 <Afdal> Unless you're fine with path signals being the only one to use for servicing 23:46:58 <Aali> trains can still block the way to the depot with their own reservation 23:47:07 <Yexo> no, for block signals the train can change paths after going through the signal, that's a big difference 23:47:08 <Aali> and never find a depot even though they should be able to 23:47:28 <Yexo> Afdal: before we had path signals servicing already worked fine 23:47:42 <glx> for block signals pathfinding is done at each split 23:47:46 <michi_cc> It's not really a bug per se, because originally there was never a service check on pathfinding. The only problem is that I can't remember anymore (even if I wrote all that path signal crap) why I added the check only for path reservation and not for all cases. 23:48:00 <Aali> dont know how to solve *that* except allowing a train to change its reservation on the new day trigger 23:48:04 <Afdal> yeah, but path signals result in better servicing 23:48:19 <Afdal> so now that you have them, you should always use them for depots because of this 23:48:49 <Yexo> it really depends on the layout of your rails 23:48:57 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.85.182.147] has quit [Quit: sleep.] 23:48:58 <Afdal> How so? 23:49:05 <Yexo> if you have a signal rail with a depot connected directly to it, looking for it everyday is often enough 23:49:08 <michi_cc> But I guess I didn't add it for block signals it could be expensive if it is really called on each and every junction tile. 23:49:10 <Afdal> oh 23:49:17 <Yexo> even with block signals a train will almost never miss the depot in that case 23:49:29 <Afdal> uhhhh 23:49:46 <Yexo> the "problem" occurs when you put your depots away from the mainline so the trains don't hold up traffic, in combination with a smallish maximum penalty to the depot 23:50:00 <Afdal> A Lev4 can easily go through 8 tiles (the default distance to check for a depot) 23:50:04 <Afdal> in a whole day 23:50:08 <Afdal> and miss its servicing 23:50:09 <Aali> service at nearest or service at X orders "fixed" this problem already :) 23:50:37 <Yexo> Afdal: are you sure it's 8 tiles? I thought it was 16 or so 23:50:49 <glx> yes it's way better to tell where you want to be serviced if needed 23:50:51 <Yexo> same problem will still happen for faster trains of course 23:51:10 <Afdal> It's 8 or 9 tiles 23:51:21 <Afdal> I know because that's the maximum distance you can put your depot 23:51:21 <Yexo> but there is no perfect solution for that. Increasing the maximum search distance to depots can lead to trains going too far out of their way to go to a depot 23:51:25 <Afdal> away from the main track 23:51:35 <Afdal> any further than that and trains will never service period 23:51:57 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:00 <glx> prevents your trains to go to places from where they can't reach their normal schedule (on very bad layouts) 23:52:02 <Afdal> hmm 23:52:07 <Yexo> pf.yapf.maximum_go_to_depot_penalty = 20 * YAPF_TILE_LENGTH 23:52:24 <michi_cc> The default is 20 diagonal tracks, but e.g. curves and slopes also count towards that limit. 23:52:36 <Afdal> Is the default is 20 23:52:43 <Aali> does the depot itself count? 23:52:45 <Afdal> Then why can't trains find depots any further out than 8? 23:52:55 <Afdal> if* 23:56:05 <Afdal> The real problem is 23:56:18 <Afdal> If you want to play with realistic acceleration 23:56:33 <Afdal> distancing your depots from the main track 23:56:38 <Afdal> really helps prevent jams 23:56:42 <__ln__> hide! 23:56:48 <Afdal> since they have to slow down at depots 23:57:10 <Afdal> And when you distance them from the main track, you run into this problem more 23:57:12 <Aali> Afdal: seriously, use service orders 23:57:28 <Afdal> I don't know how to use servicing orders effectively 23:57:44 <Afdal> How do you know when exactly it's the best time to service 23:57:59 <Aali> service orders are skipped if the train doesn't need service 23:58:05 <Afdal> Oh? 23:58:20 <Afdal> Will it still service somewhere else if it needs to? 23:58:25 <michi_cc> It is impossible to have defaults that fit each and every playing style, but you are of course free to increase the mentioned setting for your games. 23:58:27 <Aali> so just put it after the drop order (so it doesn't go to depot with cargo) 23:58:29 <Aali> no it wont 23:58:40 <Afdal> exactly, so how do you know 23:58:57 <Afdal> when its best to place a service order 23:59:16 <Aali> having a service order in the order list prevents the train from servicing on its own 23:59:18 <Afdal> Normally I space my depots about a full maximum screen zoom apart 23:59:22 <Afdal> That works pretty well 23:59:55 <Afdal> Yeah, and then the train can go longer than it should without service, resulting in higher breakdown rates