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08:25:49 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:26:09 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-028-070.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:26:14 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 08:26:28 <Wolf01> morning 08:29:31 <Mazur> Moar ning. 08:31:12 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm71.epsilon82.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 08:43:43 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:45:46 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:45:49 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:48:51 <peter1138> planetmaker, how many people use the original generator? :) 08:52:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:52:47 <Terkhen> good morning 08:52:57 <andythenorth> bueno 08:53:48 <peter1138> it is, indeed 09:03:38 <encoded> buenos dias!! 09:03:53 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-26-113-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:04:28 <peter1138> scorchio 09:09:53 <andythenorth> mornington crescent 09:11:14 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-126-246.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 09:25:38 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:31:22 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 09:32:52 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 09:49:34 *** Mark [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:49:34 *** Guest22060 is now known as Mark 09:49:55 *** Progman [~progman@p57A199CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:03:19 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23690 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix: massive typo ;) 10:03:51 <encoded> MASSIVE TYPO!!! 10:04:31 <encoded> D: 10:04:48 <encoded> why does your cia page not contain a link to a diff or something? 10:05:33 <Terkhen> check the topic of this IRC channel 10:05:51 <Terkhen> http://vcs.openttd.org/ 10:06:07 <Rubidium> encoded: because whatever the CIA does is unsourced, or in wikipedia speak: "citation needed" 10:06:27 <Rubidium> e.g. the WMD in Iraq ;) 10:06:44 *** JVassie_ [~James@2.30.128.207] has joined #openttd 10:14:45 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 10:16:02 <Eddi|zuHause> in german we say "aus fÃŒr gewöhnlich gut informierten Kreisen" when we want to hide the actual source :p 10:19:48 *** pjpe [ae5b52e7@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:22:18 <lordnokon> my wish for the new year, is to have my own personal programmer to make me newgrf's 100 euro's per custom grf 10:25:12 <andythenorth> lordnokon: http://www.kickstarter.com/ 10:25:33 <andythenorth> add one order of magnitude to the amount and I'll consider it 10:25:41 <andythenorth> still GPL though - so no warranty 10:25:45 <andythenorth> and no customer service 10:26:05 <Alberth> andythenorth: change-requests == a new custom grf :) 10:26:23 <andythenorth> money will be divided as follows: 30% openttd / coop; 30% charity; 30% lego 10:35:13 <lordnokon> im serious 10:35:36 <Alberth> what makes you think andy is not? 10:36:41 <planetmaker> moin andythenorth :-) 10:36:47 <planetmaker> you forgot 10% rattle :-P 10:36:56 <andythenorth> lordnokon: I am serious 10:37:07 <Terkhen> and given that andy is one of the few who can both draw and code he's one of your few options if you want to keep things small :) 10:37:08 <andythenorth> you just need 9 other people who also pay â¬100 10:37:18 <andythenorth> what grf do you need 10:37:22 <Ammler> andythenorth: only 30% lego, then you need a lot money :-) 10:37:27 <Ammler> lego is damn expensive 10:37:34 <Terkhen> 10% more lego? :P 10:37:39 <planetmaker> Ammler: you get the Imperial shuttle for 150⬠10:37:53 <planetmaker> so... "just" a few 100⬠contracts ;-) 10:39:06 <Alberth> lordnokon: or you need about 10 custom grfs :) 10:41:00 <lordnokon> ill even go 5000 euro, for the programmer, who can resolve the problem of openttd slowing down the more vehicles you have, because if there is something that pee's me off when playing opentdd is that, and thats playing on a system with 16cores, 96gb memory, and running 3 way sli with ssd drive 10:41:33 <andythenorth> lordnokon: trade in your computer 10:41:38 <andythenorth> you'll get a better effect 10:41:43 <planetmaker> :-) 10:41:49 <Terkhen> urgh 10:41:55 <TrueBrain> impossible to ever solve that more vehicles make the game go slower 10:41:55 <andythenorth> your computer is completely unsuited to openttd 10:42:04 <TrueBrain> more == slower, always, no matter what, no matter where :P 10:42:45 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: if you set a limit, make the computation steps big enough (tick length = 2 minutes), then more vehicles will not slow things down by a long shot ;-) 10:42:46 <Terkhen> and for making OpenTTD multicore you would need more than that... for example I don't have the time for such a huge project 10:42:55 <lordnokon> with so many clever people (programmers) out there i refuse to except that answer 10:42:55 <planetmaker> I'm not talking about playability, though ;-) 10:43:09 <Terkhen> programmers that have other things to do too :) 10:43:18 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: on which ever level, it always slows down a tiny bit :) 10:43:22 <TrueBrain> either because of cache-time 10:43:24 <TrueBrain> or whatever :) 10:43:25 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:43:34 <Terkhen> and you can't change more == slower, you can just make it a bit better 10:43:35 <andythenorth> lordnokon: you just need a better computer 10:43:43 <planetmaker> :-) 10:43:44 <Alberth> lordnokon: multi-core implies losing multi-player 10:43:52 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: but I guess it depends how you define "slowing down" ;) 10:43:58 <planetmaker> probably ;-) 10:43:59 <TrueBrain> I of course talk about CPU ticks ;) 10:44:07 <TrueBrain> you talk about real-time ;) 10:44:09 <planetmaker> yeah, I talked game ticks :-) 10:44:37 <TrueBrain> so even if we write such patch, and want to get the 5000 euro, he can always say: no no :P 10:44:58 <lordnokon> i want to be able to play 5000 of each bloody vehicle :p 10:45:10 <planetmaker> nah, we just need the contract "openttd does not slow down with max vehicle setting". 10:45:18 <planetmaker> we just make a special edition ;-) 10:45:20 <Terkhen> lordnokon: OpenTTD only uses a single core, therefore the other 15 do not help at all 10:45:22 <lordnokon> ill demote that money to the main openttd.org account 10:45:26 <planetmaker> which is snake-openttd or so 10:45:33 <Terkhen> you need a computer with a single core that is more powerful 10:46:03 <Alberth> lordnokon: 5000 of each vehicle, wtf ? 10:46:09 <Terkhen> you should not enter that money into the account until one of us agrees to code that :P 10:46:26 <lordnokon> getting a single core cpu is hardly possible these days 10:46:32 <planetmaker> Terkhen: of course he should. We accept donations ;-) 10:46:34 <Alberth> as long as I don't have to promise a working result :p 10:46:42 <lordnokon> yes why have the option of playing so many vechiles then if you cant? 10:46:56 <Terkhen> lordnokon: the limit is configurable 10:47:00 <planetmaker> lordnokon: why would we limit it to a level where it will work? 10:47:00 <Terkhen> by default it is set to lower, sane values 10:47:09 <planetmaker> default is 500 10:47:26 <lordnokon> yes i know that, but why have it in the first place he you wont be able to use it to its max 10:47:28 <planetmaker> and 5000 is for the people with ueber-computers or those who don't mind a lag 10:47:47 <lordnokon> lol 10:47:49 <Terkhen> we don't limit freedom, you can try if you want to :) 10:47:50 <planetmaker> lordnokon: do you honestly suggest that we should limit it to, say 1000 vehicles? 10:48:13 <andythenorth> so there are about 27 ships in FISH.... 10:48:18 <planetmaker> for no reason other than insufficiently fast hardware? 10:48:19 <andythenorth> @calc 5000*27 10:48:19 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 135000 10:49:15 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:49:40 <andythenorth> lot of ships :P 10:49:42 <Terkhen> I had a game once with about 4000 road vehicles, and almost no vehicles of the other types 10:49:51 <Terkhen> if the limit was set to 1000 it would not have been possible 10:49:58 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23691 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix: signed/unsigned issues, causing asserts for some languages in relation to the serverlist 10:50:22 <andythenorth> lordnokon: what should the limit be? :) 10:52:30 <TrueBrain> btw, when talking about threading we always consider trains. But we can thread RVs, ships and planes, not? 10:52:38 <TrueBrain> trains need to reserve paths, which is much harder 10:52:44 <TrueBrain> but RVs dont really care about other RVs :P 10:53:15 <andythenorth> overtaking? 10:53:24 <andythenorth> multi-threaded ships? 10:53:33 <TrueBrain> overtaking is done on a local level 10:53:42 <TrueBrain> RVs rather go through eachother than collide :P 10:54:13 <TrueBrain> and ships are even obviouser about collision :D 10:54:26 <Alberth> until we get RV-wagons :p 10:55:07 <Rubidium> yeah, start by threading the aircraft pathfinding and see how much that speed "up" the game 10:55:10 <TrueBrain> and planes ... no clue if planes have collision detection :P 10:55:13 <andythenorth> nobody's doing rv-wagons :D 10:55:15 <andythenorth> please don't 10:55:30 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: not entirely. trains and RV interact at level crossings 10:55:31 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: what would your guestimate be on that? 10:55:47 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: well, RVs do with the level crossing tile 10:55:50 <planetmaker> ships and planes would work in parallel to those two. Except loading 10:56:02 <TrueBrain> there is no bi-directional interaction between those 2, if I remember correctly :) 10:56:03 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: it gets worse 10:56:11 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: reasoning? 10:56:21 <planetmaker> loading at stations ;-) 10:56:47 <TrueBrain> well, pathfinding for planes is not really pathfinding :P 10:56:55 <TrueBrain> I guess ships is a better example :) 10:56:56 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: aircraft pathfinding is roughly: determine angle to destination, round to nearest 45 degrees and *go* 10:57:14 <TrueBrain> yeah; you are just being mean :P 10:57:36 <andythenorth> ships? 10:57:52 <TrueBrain> those things in the water :P 10:58:15 <planetmaker> could work in parallel except interaction at stations and of course terraforming. But that applies to all 10:58:27 <TrueBrain> the PF is not called at stations I would hope :D 10:59:09 <Rubidium> no, but... if it arrives at the station it does some station stuff 10:59:22 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest22282 10:59:23 <TrueBrain> sure 10:59:23 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFFCB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:59:24 <Rubidium> which is basically called from the path follower 10:59:28 *** Guest22282 [~frank@93.223.252.182] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:59:41 <Rubidium> oh darn it... the path follower can't be async 11:00:06 <Rubidium> it moves vehicles, thus updates the 'where is vehicle X' cache 11:00:19 <TrueBrain> the pathfinder itself can still run 11:00:27 <TrueBrain> the cache update has to be done afterwards 11:00:49 <Rubidium> unless it's a fast ship going multiple units a tick. Then it would move, pathfind, move in a single tick 11:01:37 <Rubidium> instead of pathfind, move 11:01:40 <TrueBrain> move for ships is cheap; the pathfinder is mostly the one that can take forever (at least, it can scan all the water tiles on the map I guess, minus one :P) 11:01:51 <TrueBrain> so it would be just a matter of splitting the moving, and th epathfinding 11:02:12 <Alberth> would it make sense to order ship path-finding by destination? 11:02:36 <TrueBrain> Alberth: what do you mean? 11:03:03 <Alberth> if you have 2 ships for the same destination, do them together, so you can re-use computed distances 11:03:23 <Rubidium> I think it'd be even faster/more efficient if you were to just insert virtual pathfinding waypoints and always go straight from waypoint to waypoint 11:03:24 <TrueBrain> only works if they are at the same tile I guess? 11:03:51 <Rubidium> together with some meta information at those nodes you should be able to reduce the amount of pathfinding significantly 11:04:00 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: CPU vs memory :D 11:05:06 <Rubidium> yes 11:05:28 <Rubidium> but multicore CPUs are most efficient when doing lots of computing on little memory 11:06:17 <TrueBrain> and for RV I guess a similar story holds (in many ways I guess) 11:06:19 <Rubidium> doing pathfinding on the map requires randomly accessing loads and loads of memory 11:06:29 <TrueBrain> but it always comes down to, in the end, trains consume the most CPU on large games :P 11:06:55 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: true-ish, but RVs do have a much more limited amount of infrastructure (graph wise) 11:07:00 <TrueBrain> yup 11:07:03 <TrueBrain> so they are much faster 11:07:10 <TrueBrain> so threading that would give insignificant benefits I guess 11:07:22 <TrueBrain> RVs mostly move very locally 11:07:51 <TrueBrain> and there it would be easier to just cache the path from station A to station B, and reuse it I guess :P 11:07:55 <Rubidium> likewise ships with well placed buoys can be very efficient 11:08:01 <TrueBrain> very true 11:09:05 <TrueBrain> but, I guess if someone really would like to add threads, that would be a good starting point 11:09:05 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23692 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix: use smallest_x of your children only when you let the children update it 11:09:13 <TrueBrain> doesn't help with trains (at all), but meh :P 11:11:16 <andythenorth> hmm 11:11:25 <andythenorth> can ships auto-bouy? 11:12:35 *** [1]Mark [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:12:35 *** Mark is now known as Guest22283 11:12:35 *** [1]Mark is now known as Mark 11:13:52 <Terkhen> what is that? 11:14:30 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: basically what Rubidium suggested ;) 11:18:30 *** leroot [sup@CPE-58-173-130-11.cjcz1.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 11:18:43 <andythenorth> can the game place bouys on map gen? 11:19:38 <TrueBrain> if we tell it to, why not? :) 11:21:17 <andythenorth> can we then pathfind once to bouys when setting orders? 11:21:20 <andythenorth> inserting the bouys? 11:21:42 <andythenorth> would also solve the incredibly boring 'set bouys for the way back' bit of orders 11:21:51 <TrueBrain> I dont see why not; the pathfinder can get a very nice bonus for using bouys, and then add them as silent orders 11:22:11 <andythenorth> or explicit 11:22:28 <andythenorth> it's possible the pathfinder could screw up and choose bouys either side of a piece of land 11:22:33 <andythenorth> also - terraforming.... 11:23:04 <TrueBrain> it has to revalidate once in a while of course 11:23:28 <Alberth> and getting loads of bouys close together 11:23:30 <TrueBrain> but short (Straight) legs are easy to validate 11:25:29 *** sup [sup@CPE-58-173-130-11.cjcz1.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:25:31 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@D5225594.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 11:31:15 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-104-83.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 11:44:13 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-43-77.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:50:03 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-46-125.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:50:31 *** Elukka [~Elukka@78-27-84-248.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:16:29 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-prvbrasgw1-fe05dc00-37.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:20:25 *** Jogio [~5080e27d@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 12:20:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:22:12 <Jogio> hi Truebrain 12:25:20 <Jogio> hmm, I come back another time 12:25:24 *** Jogio [~5080e27d@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [] 12:26:13 <planetmaker> lol? 12:26:15 <Terkhen> what? 12:26:44 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFFCB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:26:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:28:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:30:35 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest22291 12:30:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:30:39 *** Guest22291 [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:35:48 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:38:18 <TrueBrain> lol; guess he only has eye for me :D:D 12:39:48 <Terkhen> :D 12:43:07 <michi_cc> Rubidium: You can't even thread the ship ticks without splitting off effect generation. 12:43:40 * Rubidium blames andy ;) 12:43:57 <TrueBrain> oeh, can I join? :D 12:44:21 * Rubidium blames TrueBrain ;) 12:44:27 <TrueBrain> \o/ 12:45:52 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-104-83.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:46:03 <andythenorth> effect generation... 12:46:05 <andythenorth> hmm 12:46:13 <andythenorth> reminds me of something 12:47:14 <TrueBrain> but you dont know what yet :P 12:47:29 <andythenorth> smoke :) 12:47:43 <TrueBrain> reminds me of something 12:47:44 <andythenorth> there's a FS for it, but my DNS won't resolve :P 12:47:45 <TrueBrain> IEUW 12:47:46 <TrueBrain> :P 12:50:11 <andythenorth> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4263 12:50:32 <andythenorth> I will pay â¬5,000 for it 12:50:42 <andythenorth> (subject to terms) :P 12:54:05 *** nazcafan [~chatzilla@alf94-7-82-228-221-162.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:54:09 <nazcafan> hello 12:54:15 <planetmaker> hi 12:54:54 <nazcafan> I am trying run the 32bpp mode, to no avail for noz 12:54:56 <nazcafan> now 12:56:03 <nazcafan> I have edited the line to blitter = 32bpp-simple in the openttd.cfg file 12:56:32 <nazcafan> and added a data dir in my docs/openTTD/ 12:56:39 <nazcafan> pasted a couple of tar files in there 12:57:04 <nazcafan> I don't see any difference and the line gets changed by the program into blitter = "32bpp-simple" 12:57:35 <nazcafan> (the program adds double quotes) 12:57:50 <nazcafan> did I forget anything? 12:58:43 <Terkhen> hmm... sounds right at first glance but I have not used 32bpp for a long time 12:59:03 <Rubidium> what version of OpenTTD are you using? 12:59:11 <Rubidium> and where did you get the 32bpp graphic tars from? 13:00:21 <nazcafan> I downloaded the graphic files from: http://wiki.openttd.org/List_of_downloadable_32bpp_tars 13:00:54 <nazcafan> and the version seems to be 1.1.4 13:01:40 <Rubidium> nazcafan: you need the original Transport Tycoon Deluxe graphics for those 13:02:21 <Rubidium> and even then quite a few won't work due to utter ancientness 13:02:29 <TrueBrain> we need some method to put them in GRFs .... if only someone had written something like that (/me looks at michi_cc :D) :D:D :) 13:02:35 <nazcafan> Rubidium: can't use the the free version? 13:02:42 <SmatZ> nazcafan: prefer 32bpp-anim or 32bpp-optimized, they are faster, and less buggy (32bpp-simple has problems with transparency, iirc) 13:03:10 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Make our resident quaking export come back :p 13:03:19 <michi_cc> s/export/expert/ :) 13:03:32 * TrueBrain summons frosch 13:03:33 <TrueBrain> did it work? 13:03:41 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: putting them in GRFs doesn't really help here, as you can't easily add stuff to the original graphics 13:04:01 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: in a GRF they can take over 8bpp like ogfx does, not? 13:04:04 <Rubidium> nazcafan: no, those graphics were 'coded' before the free graphics were developed and as such they are not coded to support them as well 13:04:59 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: yes, but then you're as good/bad off writing an action A sprite replacement with seperate 32bpp pngs next to it 13:05:18 <TrueBrain> which goes in a grf, not? :) 13:05:28 <TrueBrain> well, the pngs dont have to 13:05:31 <TrueBrain> but my point is exactly that 13:05:37 <TrueBrain> 1 file you can download and then it "just works" 13:05:40 <michi_cc> With 32bpp in GRF, someone⢠could simply fork OpenGFX and slowly start adding 32bpp sprites. 13:05:44 <TrueBrain> no matching another 3rdparty 8bpp set 13:05:54 <nazcafan> ah, in that case, I may just forget about 32bpp for a while; seems too much of a hassle for now 13:06:36 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFFCB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:07:42 *** eberon [~Lee@99-135-137-23.lightspeed.evtnil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 13:07:58 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: would there really be a need to fork it? Cant' you just load 2 GRFs, 1 ogfx, the other overwriting them with 32bpp sprites? 13:08:02 <TrueBrain> or would that conflict too much? 13:08:35 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: you can't override sprites of another NewGRF 13:08:47 <michi_cc> I though about creating a real base set that you can select in the game options. 13:08:49 <TrueBrain> that sucks :( 13:09:57 <michi_cc> The "surplus" 8bpp sprites wouldn't matter compared with how big a full set of 32bpp extra zoom graphics would be. 13:10:02 <Rubidium> but I think the "best" solution to getting it all working would be the 32bpp graphics in the GRF and OpenGFX making two builds: a small (stable) 8bpp version, and a larger (currently experimental/unfinished) 8bpp + 32bpp version 13:10:19 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: very very true 13:10:32 <planetmaker> michi_cc: a 'real' base set imho makes most sense 13:11:01 <planetmaker> as otherwise 8bpp authors get bug reports about stuff broken by bad 32bpp stuff thrown on top (been there, seen that) 13:11:16 <Rubidium> the above just needs a param to NML to not export the 32bpp graphics for the simple set 13:11:17 <andythenorth> frosch had some ideas on [yxyz] 13:11:19 <planetmaker> thus I agree with Rubidium 13:11:20 <andythenorth> ^ usually works 13:12:06 <planetmaker> I guess we can add this 2nd build relatively easily, Rubidium 13:12:24 <planetmaker> we could do that even via gcc with #ifdef 13:15:00 <michi_cc> And a third variant for 8bpp extra zoom? :p 13:15:01 <Rubidium> doing it in NML would be more durable I'd say; especially as you don't need to copy code around for it to be used in other sets 13:15:29 <planetmaker> of course, that's preferential 13:15:46 <planetmaker> michi_cc: well... I'll be happy to start including EZ sprites... but that'll be a LOOOONG walk, I fear 13:15:48 *** vargadanis [vargadanis@catv-89-135-23-65.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #openttd 13:16:06 <TrueBrain> well, we have seen that the 32bpp -> 8bpp gives very good results 13:16:08 <TrueBrain> at least, so far 13:16:32 <TrueBrain> so maybe you end up with a 32bpp base set, which generates into EZ 32bpp, 8bpp (normal) and 8bpp EZ :P 13:16:51 <TrueBrain> would be a lovely uniform set :D 13:22:03 <TrueBrain> wow, callgrind can analyze cache hits/misses on line-by-line base .... 13:25:16 <michi_cc> callgrind is awsome, but sloooooooooow :) 13:25:29 <TrueBrain> it simulates it, no wonder :D 13:25:39 <TrueBrain> I used to work on a FPGA, there the hardware does this shit for you 13:25:41 <TrueBrain> now that is fast :D 13:25:47 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0013f7fc9e20-CM0013f7fc9e1c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 13:26:07 <michi_cc> ItsS the only tool I know though that can do profiling on assembly instruction level. 13:26:33 <TrueBrain> I mostly used gprof; so when you talked about this yesterday, and now reading the manual .. I am truly amased what it can track :P 13:26:41 <TrueBrain> of course it 'estimates' how a real computer works 13:26:55 <TrueBrain> but omg :D 13:27:29 <michi_cc> Yeah, callgrind is for analysing algorithms bascially, not for finding out how to tune your program to the newest Core 785XXY Pro 45K :) 13:27:54 <TrueBrain> I like how it can start recording when you enter a certain function 13:28:12 <TrueBrain> makes me wonder if the graph you showed, if that 50% is really 50% CPU time of the whole application, or only of that tree :P 13:29:43 <michi_cc> I'm not totally sure, but I think I set it to show percentage of total time. The other numbers are 'times called', where you can see I simulated 500 ticks. 13:30:16 <michi_cc> If it was relative time the root node (StateGameLoop() in that graph) would have 100%. 13:30:47 <TrueBrain> so it really is insane much :D 13:31:12 <michi_cc> And children bewlow 0.5% or so absolute time are trimmed. 13:32:20 <michi_cc> The profiled save game is a bit of a worst case scenario though, because it has *a lot* cargo in transport and at stations. 13:32:54 <TrueBrain> a good scenario is a worst case :) 13:32:59 <TrueBrain> an empty map is the best case, but not really helping ;) 13:34:21 <TrueBrain> still compiling KCacheGrid ... from what I read, many things dont work from CLI .. but I have a XFCE based Linux machine :P 13:34:25 <TrueBrain> takes a bit of time (Gentoo :P) 13:35:00 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:391a:2a38:3ae4:284c] has joined #openttd 13:35:03 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:37:48 <saua> Hi, on the front page it says that openttd 1.2 beta includes game scripts, are there any documentation on how to write theese? 13:40:13 <Rubidium> saua: basically like AIs, and there is a bit about that on the wiki. Whether something has been written about writing game scripts I don't know 13:40:21 <planetmaker> get some examples. And read the api specs on nogo.openttd.org 13:40:34 <planetmaker> examples = via online content download 13:47:52 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23693 /trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp: -Fix [FS#4859]: hardcode the original defaults for loading old savegames if they could totally mess with the game's behaviour 13:50:08 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0013f7fc9e20-CM0013f7fc9e1c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 13:52:06 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23694 /trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp: -Fix (rprev): somehow compilers didn't understand what I meant... 14:07:17 *** nazcafan [~chatzilla@alf94-7-82-228-221-162.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]] 14:10:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.169.33] has joined #openttd 14:15:33 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.186.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:40:02 *** Rezt [~Rezt@81-178-198-172.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 14:51:38 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23695 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt screenshot.cpp screenshot.h toolbar_gui.cpp): -Fix/Feature [FS#4916]: make a distinction between fully zoomed in and default zoomed in screenshots 14:57:12 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23696 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix (r23695): 5 <-> 6... today is not my day 14:57:40 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I hope next year is your year :D 14:59:28 *** Rezt [~Rezt@81-178-198-172.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 15:14:02 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d822ae4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:14:27 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #openttd [] 15:17:07 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest22304 15:17:08 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFE52A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:20:04 *** Guest22304 [~frank@p5DDFFCB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:35:32 <kais58> is there anything relativly simple that needs doing to openttd? I can code to an acceptable standard in java and know my way around code though never messed with a large project such as this? 15:38:09 <Alberth> there is no list of simple things to do, but you could browse the flyspray bugtracker for open problems 15:38:54 <Alberth> but the best is usually something that you like to change 15:39:40 <Alberth> also, it depends on what kind of thing you like 15:40:15 <Alberth> ie GUI stuff, of deep path finder stuff 15:40:19 <Alberth> *or 15:45:53 <Wolf01> bye, happy new year! 15:45:58 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 15:46:11 <andythenorth> bah 15:46:13 <andythenorth> new year 15:46:15 * andythenorth is grump 15:49:00 <Rubidium> kais58: if you're on OSX then there are many OSX specific bugs to be fixed, otherwise the "easy" tasks are basically limited to documenting stuff 15:49:50 <kais58> afraid not, never used any Mac really 15:49:57 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 15:53:15 <Elukka> kais58 sounds familiar 15:53:17 <Elukka> relicnews? 15:53:37 <kais58> yup 15:53:42 <kais58> so you are that elukka 15:53:52 <Elukka> yup :D 15:53:53 *** Progman [~progman@p57A199CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:48 <Elukka> i wanted to do some stuff too so i ended up making pixels 15:55:48 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/bayd-zugw-3.png 15:56:45 <lordnokon> have a wonderful new years eve people enjoy it 15:59:00 <kais58> yeah, I heard some people complaining about one of them being one pixel too long/short :D 16:02:19 <Elukka> yeah but a compromise was reached :P 16:02:50 <kais58> the changed it by half a pixel? :D 16:02:54 <kais58> s/the/you/ 16:03:04 <appe_> how cute. 16:04:17 <Elukka> wanna draw some trains? :P there's a lot to do 16:06:15 <kais58> I like trains 16:07:08 <kais58> but no thanks, I'm at the stage where the profesional programmers I know don't scream in horror at the code I've written anymore, so I'll stick to trying that ;) 16:07:08 <Elukka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKB4h9gvmm0 16:07:50 <kais58> I was more referring to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHkKJfcBXcw vut that works too ;) 16:09:08 <Elukka> hm. i'm sure someone needs something coded 16:10:02 <andythenorth> kais58: either browse flyspray - or existing patches in the development forum 16:10:09 <andythenorth> or play the game, then find something that bugs you :P 16:10:37 <Elukka> can you figure out cargo destinations like yacd without killing the cpu :( 16:11:16 <kais58> elukka, that's easy, get a beefier cpu :D 16:12:13 <Elukka> it's a single threaded game with software rendering 16:12:25 <Elukka> someone was working on an opengl graphics engine 16:12:29 <Elukka> maybe they still are 16:12:49 <Elukka> it'd be awesome to just have an opengl graphics engine with a locked camera that rendered existing sprites as flat textures 16:12:55 <Elukka> the game would look the same but ought to run a lot better 16:13:16 <Rubidium> why? 16:13:51 <Elukka> because you have a humongous processing unit in your computer that's devoted to running graphics 16:13:52 <Rubidium> does it support thousands of different textures? 16:14:12 <Elukka> with openttd it's not being used for anything 16:14:28 <Elukka> why wouldn't it? 16:15:39 <Elukka> if your cpu is capable of rendering the game (while doing everything else too) then it follows it would run better if graphics were offloaded to the gpu 16:15:55 <Rubidium> do you know what OpenGL does and what its limitations are? 16:16:17 <Elukka> it's a graphics API, like directx 16:16:20 <Elukka> it isn't an engine 16:17:03 <Elukka> seems extremely unlikely to me it would have some hard limit on textures 16:18:16 <kais58> if it does I imagine it's more than what you need, I know it can certainly render massive images 16:18:28 <kais58> wait openttd is software rendered? 16:18:58 <Elukka> yeah 16:19:15 <Rubidium> also... OpenTTD's world isn't like the real world; 16:19:45 <Rubidium> for example, a train is 8 high. Then the catenary (lines) are added on top of that, and then the catenary poles 16:19:51 <Elukka> the gpu is sitting there doing nothing and the cpu doing graphics doesn't do any good for cpu heavy patches like cargo destinations 16:19:51 <Rubidium> over that comes the bridge 16:19:58 <Elukka> why's that an issue? 16:20:16 <Rubidium> interestingly the top of the bridge level is 8 above the previous height level 16:20:36 <Rubidium> similar things happen with tunnels (where it's even worse) 16:23:01 <Rubidium> what's especially interesting are recolouring sprites 16:24:29 *** JoeyJo0 [~JoeyJo0@D978094C.cm-3-1a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:25:53 <Elukka> not sure how that's an issue either 16:26:28 <Rubidium> what I remember with the previous opengl attempts was that they ran into many limitations 16:26:37 <Elukka> someone did make the game run on an opengl engine, though it had rudimentary placeholder graphics and i'm not sure how functional it is 16:26:45 *** JoeyJo0 [~JoeyJo0@D978094C.cm-3-1a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:31:45 * andythenorth knows not much about OpenGL 16:32:06 <andythenorth> but guesses it's best for rendering into a 3 dimensional space 16:32:12 <andythenorth> not a dimetric projection 16:32:19 <Rubidium> reading back there seem to be issues with sprites not being a power of two in size 16:32:25 <Elukka> i think most modern 2D games use 3D engines because it's that much more efficient 16:32:42 <Elukka> can't you have them be a power of two in size and simply have alpha channel for the empty area 16:33:13 <Rubidium> ofcourse you can 16:33:23 <andythenorth> it would take a lot of work to sort out those sprites 16:33:27 <andythenorth> hmm 16:33:34 <andythenorth> assume top left locked? 16:33:50 <Rubidium> but you have to do it in the code that 'generates' these sprites 16:34:00 <Elukka> yeah there'd have to be some sorting of the sprites 16:34:07 <Elukka> but nothing as huge as opengfx since you could still use the same art 16:34:48 <Rubidium> oh yes... no partial updates 16:35:16 <Rubidium> so we need to send the whole screen every time, instead of only the bits that changed 16:35:32 <Elukka> yup. our computers have a very powerful gpu in them made for just that, though 16:35:38 <Elukka> most do, anyway 16:35:50 <Elukka> actually i'm guessing even integrated gpus are better at it than the cpu 16:36:01 <Rubidium> Elukka: but OpenTTD needs to 'render' the windows before passing it to the GPU 16:37:00 <Elukka> what do you mean? 16:37:40 <Rubidium> imagine you have the 'toolbar' window opened 16:37:58 <Rubidium> then OpenTTD needs to determine what button to draw where exactly, how big it is and where to draw the lines 16:38:09 <Rubidium> all this information then needs to be passed to the GPU to do the actual drawing 16:39:12 <Rubidium> oh, and let me quote the first lines of the post about someone that made a opengl blitter: 16:39:20 <Rubidium> "Here comes a hardware-assisted OpenGL blitter for OpenTTD! 16:39:20 <Rubidium> Why not hardware-'accelerated' you say? Because it's not necessarily faster" 16:40:19 <Elukka> i'm not sure what hardware-assisted means exactly, but surely it's a lot faster than no hardware rendering at all 16:40:25 <Elukka> as it is currently 16:40:40 <Rubidium> have you completely NOT read the second line? 16:40:55 <TWerkhoven[l]> not if the cpu needs to do more work to get stuff ready for the hw-assisted bit 16:41:20 <Elukka> but openttd isn't a special case, and hardware rendering is more efficient for every other game 16:41:45 <Elukka> yes, rubidium, he says hardware accelerated isn't necessarily faster than hardware assisted, whatever that means 16:41:56 <Elukka> he doesn't say not using hardware at all if faster than using it 16:42:14 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-26-113-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20111221135037]] 16:42:31 <Rubidium> Elukka: he says he calls it "hardware-assisted" because he can't call it "hardware-accelarated" because it does NOT necessarily accelarate it 16:42:58 <Rubidium> if the person that wrote the OpenGL "blitter" says it's not faster, then who are you to claim it is? 16:43:53 <Elukka> can you link to where he's saying it? it doesn't seem to me that he's saying software rendering is faster (which it isn't in any game) 16:44:01 <Elukka> hard to say without context, though 16:44:05 <kais58> he does say it is much faster 16:44:16 <Rubidium> what? 16:44:39 <Rubidium> sorry... 16:44:58 <Rubidium> I don't understand you anymore, or English... 16:45:27 <andythenorth> it took years for Photoshop to acquire (minimal) OpenGL acceleration, and that's flakey 16:45:37 <Elukka> photoshop is an image editor, not a game 16:45:45 <Elukka> okay, the way i read the quote is that he said "here's a hardware-assisted blitter, it's not really hardware-accelerated but that wouldn't necessarily be faster than this" 16:46:01 <Elukka> it doesn't seem to me to say "here's a hardware-assisted blitter, i can't call it hardware accelerated because it's actually slower than software rendering' 16:46:18 <andythenorth> how is it different? hmm. z index is different in photoshop 16:46:38 <Rubidium> Elukka: that's not what he meant: "here is an opengl blitter that I cannot call hardware accelerated because it is not necessarily faster" 16:46:50 <Elukka> well, could you link it? 16:46:55 <Elukka> as i said it's hard to get it without context 16:47:25 <Rubidium> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=38151 <- there is no other context 16:48:29 <Elukka> he isn't saying his blitter is slower than the current software rendering near as i can tell 16:49:06 <Elukka> he says his geforce 7600 gt made the game run at 700 fps with the 32 bit animated palette! 16:49:09 <Elukka> sounds a heck of a lot faster to me 16:49:15 <Rubidium> yes, he isn't saying it is slower, but he is saying it isn't necessarily faster 16:49:20 <Rubidium> Elukka: and what are 700 fps? 16:49:56 <Elukka> he says whether it's faster depends on your computer, and also that it's a fairly experimental implementation 16:50:20 <Elukka> that 700 fps is the gpu finding it absolutely trivial to draw the game's graphics, and they're not bogging down the cpu 16:50:44 <Rubidium> it's easy to 'fake' FPS 16:51:13 <Elukka> are you saying he's faking his results 16:51:27 <Elukka> it does not mean time steps are going hundreds of times faster, because the cpu handles that 16:51:31 <Rubidium> no, I'm saying that FPS is ambiguous 16:51:34 <Elukka> it means, however, that it does not need to handle the graphics 16:51:44 <Elukka> and the gpu finds the graphics extremely easy to draw because it's what it's built for 16:52:14 <Rubidium> but lovely the GPU can draw the frame in 1/700ths of a second, but how much time is spent with sending the data to the GPU? 16:52:36 <Elukka> almost certainly a fraction of the time the cpu would require to draw it 16:52:42 <Elukka> as i said, it works like this in every other game 16:53:08 <Elukka> it's why we have gpus 16:53:14 <Rubidium> simutrans? 16:53:18 <Rubidium> doesn't have it... 16:53:20 <Elukka> it's easier to send data to them to have them draw stuff than it is to have the cpu do it 16:54:39 <Elukka> by 'every game' i mean it's a general truth that it's easier to send data to the gpu, and this is why gpus are a huge industry and why everyone has one in their computer 16:55:21 <Rubidium> it's not easier if the game hasn't been developed to use it 16:55:23 <andythenorth> how much stuff actually gets drawn? not a lot 16:55:51 <Elukka> erm. all the sprites in the entire screen 16:55:52 * andythenorth suspects drawing is not the slow part 16:55:56 <Rubidium> as I mentioned earlier... OpenTTD uses tricks w.r.t. perspective that you can't model in the opengl world 16:56:09 <TWerkhoven[l]> openttd runs fine on a singlecore 1.6GHz laptop-cpu, the limiting factor is pathfinding which saturates cpu 16:56:11 <Rubidium> so OpenTTD *still* has to do the sprite sorting and such 16:56:25 <andythenorth> composing the scene is probably significantly slower than drawing it 16:56:34 <Elukka> you make it use the same projection, you use the same sprites, you place them the same way 16:56:34 <Rubidium> but I'll see how many redraws the 32bpp-anim blitter can do in a newly started game 16:56:52 <TWerkhoven[l]> it uses virtually no cpu at all if all there are few to none vehicles 16:57:25 <Rubidium> and the sprite sorting is the expensive bit in OpenTTD (that's O(n^3), where n is the number of visible sprites) 16:57:26 *** Chrill [Chrill@c83-253-89-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 16:58:49 <Rubidium> hmm... 32bpp-anim with animation enabled goes up to a mere 5000 FPS with an empty map and fast forward 16:59:35 <Rubidium> paused it does 'only' 900 FPS, but that's because of the 1ms sleeping (which gets disabled with fast forward) 16:59:46 <kais58> is it not possible to offload pathfinding to another thread? 17:00:04 <Rubidium> yes it is 17:00:07 <Rubidium> at the cost of multiplayer 17:00:11 <Elukka> i think that's one of the things that's possible yet difficult 17:00:32 <kais58> why at the cost of multiplayer? 17:00:55 <andythenorth> Rubidium: need a topic item for this :) 17:00:56 <Rubidium> because then the order in which vehicles more differs on the different clients/server 17:01:12 <andythenorth> it's a valid question, but asked twice daily... :P 17:02:39 *** TomyLobo2 [~foo@p4FC22E86.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:04:35 <Rubidium> oh boy... that version of OpenTTD is "trolly" old ;( 17:07:44 * andythenorth bbl 17:07:52 <andythenorth> new year will consist of baby nursing for me 17:07:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:08:31 *** TomyLobo [~foo@84.148.119.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:08:31 *** TomyLobo2 is now known as TomyLobo 17:08:54 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/2234/d-zug_10_bav.png calling this finished i think 17:16:16 <Rubidium> interesting... 17:16:33 <Rubidium> with the same method of 'reproduction' in r14405 17:16:54 <kais58> Rub: ? 17:17:28 <Rubidium> sdl + 32bpp-anim -> ~500-700 FPS, sdlgl + opengl -> ~60 FPS 17:17:53 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/fps_calc.diff <- method for determining FPS 17:18:13 <kais58> does it not go over 60 fps at all? 17:18:24 <Rubidium> basic idea: every 1000 ticks = ms print the counter and reset the counter to 0 17:18:28 <Rubidium> kais58: exactly 17:18:37 <kais58> then turn off vsync 17:18:51 <Elukka> yeah, that limits it to your monitor's refresh rate 17:19:53 <Rubidium> more interesting is that with current trunk sdl + 32bpp-anim gives ~900 FPS, and ~5000 FPS in fast forward (yes, SmatZ and others have improved its performance significantly) 17:20:02 * Rubidium has no clue how to turn off vsync 17:20:31 <kais58> depends on how it's enabled, maybe nivdia control panel/catalyst control centre? 17:20:53 *** Chrill [Chrill@c83-253-89-232.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 17:21:45 <Rubidium> I don't have that crappy driver 17:22:24 <kais58> opengl menu in control panel then 17:22:50 *** encoded [~encoded@adsl-65-23-250-212.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:25:35 <Rubidium> okay... glxgears jumped from ~60 to ~1400 FPS, but for the GL thing in OpenTTD it didn't do much at all 17:27:17 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:21 <Rubidium> it's telling me that it that the vblank mode has been changed just like when starting glxgears, so I assume that it worked right 17:27:41 <glx> grr stupid hl 17:32:27 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-243.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 17:34:19 <Alberth> the x is somewhat rare but random TLAs are quite often used in conversations :) 17:47:12 *** luv [~lukas@cpc1-belf9-2-0-cust439.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:50:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:52:28 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-26-113-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:52:44 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.85.182.147] has joined #openttd 17:54:46 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.79.246] has joined #openttd 17:59:18 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.79.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:00:01 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.79.246] has joined #openttd 18:00:28 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-243.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:04:32 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.79.246] has joined #openttd 18:04:32 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.79.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:03 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:10:04 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.79.246] has joined #openttd 18:10:04 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.79.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:14:05 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.79.246] has joined #openttd 18:14:05 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.79.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:21:49 <peter1138> my blitter did partial updates 18:21:59 <peter1138> but it wasn't too efficient 18:22:31 <peter1138> problem with ottd is so much game state changes things cosmetically every tick 18:22:48 *** luv [~lukas@cpc1-belf9-2-0-cust439.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 18:22:56 <peter1138> if you used display lists to hold a chunk of landscape, you'd have to update each one every tick 18:23:21 <peter1138> if you use display lists for each tile, you need x*y of them :S 18:25:00 <Terkhen> time to go with the family, happy new year everyone :) 18:25:57 <peter1138> ta ra 18:28:56 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.79.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:08 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.79.246] has joined #openttd 18:29:33 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:34:56 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:36:15 <andythenorth> nothing says 'new year' like a release :) 18:38:53 *** Progman [~progman@p57A199CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:40:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23697 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files): (log message trimmed) 18:40:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:40:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by Wowanxm 18:40:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: czech - 2 changes by SmatZ 18:40:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by Yexo 18:40:53 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: english_US - 13 changes by Rubidium 18:40:53 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: french - 2 changes by glx 18:44:59 <Alberth> andy in about an hour we have a fresh nightly release :p 18:46:38 <Rubidium> more like half an hour ;) 18:46:46 <Rubidium> the build + public takes less than 20 minutes 18:47:06 * andythenorth is trading in new year for child maintenance 18:47:07 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-26-113-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:47:09 <Alberth> such a fast service nowadays :) 18:47:11 <andythenorth> new year is over-rated anyway 19:06:30 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d822ae4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 19:13:44 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-126-246.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:20:08 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm71.epsilon82.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [] 19:21:08 <appe_> there is a setting i hate. 19:21:45 <appe_> the let's-allow-trains-to-break-down-alot option. 19:21:47 <appe_> :-3 19:30:09 * Alberth ⥠breakdowns 19:31:13 <appe_> "hi there, im a happy little BROKEN DOWN coal train. ill be happy to BROKEN DOWN get your coal from destination A to BROKEN DOWN destination B!" 19:32:14 <Alberth> that's why you have to pick a reliable engine, and have enough depots for servicing 19:33:49 <andythenorth> or just turn off breakdowns :P 19:33:49 <andythenorth> appe_: what is this non-issue you're moaning about ? :) 19:35:09 <Rubidium> pebkac? 19:45:43 *** JVassie [~James@2.30.128.207] has joined #openttd 19:51:47 *** JVassie_ [~James@2.30.128.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:57:40 *** pjpe [ae5b52e7@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:07:18 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@D5225594.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:09:29 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@D5225594.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 20:24:58 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@D5225594.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:25:55 <andythenorth> I should release a new FIRS? 20:38:32 *** maz0r [~maz@cpc1-hudd10-2-0-cust613.4-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:40:10 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFE52A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:40:49 <andythenorth> no then? :D 20:44:13 <Alberth> nobody is here :) 20:44:31 <Alberth> besides, as father you should be old enough to decide for yourself :) 20:50:45 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:58:22 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:59:13 <Rubidium> Alberth: yeah, only nobodies are here ;) 20:59:40 <Rubidium> andythenorth: ofcourse you should release, but at 00:00 UTC ;) 20:59:48 <andythenorth> meh 20:59:56 <andythenorth> who stays up that late? :o 21:00:40 <Rubidium> what? aren't you forced to do that due to the noise outside? 21:00:55 <andythenorth> not in deepest surburbia 21:01:03 <andythenorth> maybe if I was at home in the city :P 21:30:52 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.231] has joined #openttd 21:33:06 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 21:36:17 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.79.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:58:29 *** JVassie [~James@2.30.128.207] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:50 *** JVassie [~James@2.30.128.207] has joined #openttd 21:59:20 *** eberon [~Lee@99-135-137-23.lightspeed.evtnil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:18:10 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:19:35 <jonty-comp> whee, the yogscast are playing openttd over new years 22:32:15 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 22:36:01 <__ln__> zomg, happy birthday â¬uro! 22:37:35 <Sacro> So my new year's eve sat watching yogscast play openttd 22:37:55 <Sacro> http://www.twitch.tv/yogscast 22:38:54 *** encoded [~encoded@adsl-65-23-250-212.prtc.net] has joined #openttd 22:39:07 <Sacro> eesh, using presignlas 22:39:33 <andythenorth> hmm 22:40:00 <andythenorth> xUSSR set on bananas looks nice 22:50:04 <peter1138> are they playing it again? 22:51:44 <andythenorth> new FIRS time :) 22:51:56 <andythenorth> done, done, onto the next one... 22:52:08 <andythenorth> can /me complete BANDIT before 2012? 22:52:24 <Rubidium> still 13 hours to go ;) 22:52:47 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-prvbrasgw1-fe05dc00-37.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:53:13 <andythenorth> I'll have to code really fast :P 22:53:20 <andythenorth> mostly templated though 22:54:02 <andythenorth> meh 22:54:08 <andythenorth> no FIRS downloads 22:54:14 <andythenorth> what is everyone doing? :o 22:54:17 <andythenorth> are they busy? 22:54:39 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:54:55 <HerzogDeXtEr> Happy New Year 22:55:00 <Rubidium> lies andythenorth! ;) 22:55:18 <andythenorth> well that's better 22:55:32 <andythenorth> my work here is done then :) 22:57:20 <peter1138> ah, can't talk on there 22:57:31 <peter1138> gotta purchase a subscription 22:59:05 <Mazur> Happy nwe beer, everyone! 23:07:45 <Elukka> well i'm making pixels 23:07:49 <Elukka> andy, what's changed in firs? 23:08:06 <andythenorth> just tweaked a few buildings 23:08:24 <andythenorth> nothing big :) 23:09:03 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/0.7.0/changelog.txt 23:18:27 <Rubidium> true, the differences between 0.7.0 and the previous version are minimal at best 23:18:57 *** pjpe [ae5b52e7@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 23:19:15 <V453000> :D 23:19:16 <Rubidium> only a bit of readme tweaking and changing the minimum (compatible) versions ;) 23:25:30 *** sup [sup@CPE-58-173-130-11.cjcz1.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 23:32:47 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-028-070.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 23:32:58 *** sup [sup@CPE-58-173-130-11.cjcz1.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:38:20 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 23:41:29 <andythenorth> bye :) 23:41:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 23:46:17 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.85.182.147] has quit [Quit: Happy New Year.] 23:48:31 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:49:18 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 23:59:29 *** Maarten_ [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 23:59:38 *** Strid_ [~Strid@c-4bc9e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd