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00:00:36 <FLHerne> : ( ? 00:01:39 <iddqd> i fail to fix my city 00:01:46 <iddqd> i dont know what im doign wrong,. rating keeps @ very poor 00:02:02 <iddqd> planting trees, putting in more ubsses 00:02:03 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:04:11 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-87-84.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:05:51 <supermop_> you could start a thread on the forum with a savegame posted 00:07:00 <supermop_> I once had a game where a couple of cities got stuck on appalling for no understandable reason, I think it was a bug in a patch I was using. 00:07:23 <supermop_> If you post a save game people might be able to look at it and see what is wrong 00:17:30 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 00:20:52 *** FLHerne [~francis@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:31 *** TdlQ [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:46:03 *** FLHerne [~francis@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 00:54:06 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-011-051.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:58:09 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:01 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 01:03:36 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:07:18 *** dnger229 [1803c4df@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 01:08:57 <dnger229> any one know how to fix this problum when i try to build sttions the botton to do so is gryed out 01:10:17 <dnger229> #oftc 01:10:18 <dnger229> whops 01:10:51 *** dnger229 [1803c4df@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [] 01:12:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 01:12:07 <Eddi|zuHause> sure. 01:12:12 <Eddi|zuHause> no problem. 01:20:14 *** TomyLobo [~foo@p54947BB0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 01:28:08 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-123-30.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:33:18 <yorick> r23709 will just cause lots of server names to start with AAAA 01:33:36 <yorick> random sort instead of alphabetic sort may be better 01:36:34 *** Biolunar__ [~mahdi@blfd-4d08204f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 01:37:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: or we just start to manually ban servers which try to "optimize" their position... 01:43:01 <FLHerne> Won't stop people choosing sensible names starting with "a" though, surely? 01:43:17 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 01:43:29 *** Biolunar_ [~mahdi@blfd-4d0830eb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:43:54 <FLHerne> Random would be fairer, is there a reason it doesn't work? 01:54:51 *** mib_3m7zjl [7a3c08dd@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 01:54:57 <mib_3m7zjl> hello 01:55:27 *** mib_3m7zjl [7a3c08dd@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [] 01:58:25 *** Biolunar__ [~mahdi@blfd-4d08204f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 02:24:06 <iddqd> man i love this game 02:24:07 <iddqd> itâs so good 02:24:14 <iddqd> unfortunately i made a mistake in my design 02:24:19 <iddqd> my trains keep crashing into buses 02:24:23 <iddqd> fortunately, only drivers die 02:24:24 <iddqd> :3 02:25:30 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:26:09 <kkb110_> how do I compile 1.1 branch so that it can join other 1.1.4 servers ? 02:26:49 <kkb110_> I changed to const char _openttd_revision[] = "1.1.4"; in rev.cpp.in 02:27:15 <kkb110_> but still get "We made a protocol-error and our connection is closed" error 02:33:06 <kkb110_> I'm using git 1.1 branch 02:36:17 <fjb|tab> You have to use the exactly same version. 02:36:51 <fjb|tab> iddqd: Try path signals. 02:37:09 <iddqd> do they block roads? 02:37:13 <iddqd> anywho 02:37:18 <iddqd> can i upgrade airports without destroying them? 02:37:43 <fjb|tab> The gates close as soon as the path gets reserved. 02:37:51 <fjb|tab> No. 02:37:56 <iddqd> dang it 02:40:40 <kkb110_> fjb|tab, so I think I'm using the same version 1.1.4 02:41:31 <kkb110_> the latest 1.1 is 1.1.4, which the last modification is 4th Dec 02:41:51 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-93-36.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:43:01 <kkb110_> identical to the website binary download version 02:43:12 *** encoded [~encoded@adsl-65-23-250-212.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:45:55 <planetmaker> kkb110_: only the 1.1.4 tag is identical and network-compatible with 1.1.4 stable 02:46:06 <planetmaker> the 1.1 branch will not do 02:46:23 <kkb110_> oh.... so I need to use tag instead of branch? 02:46:48 <planetmaker> yes 02:47:30 <kkb110_> but where is the tag ? http://git.openttd.org/openttd/ 02:47:46 <planetmaker> only in the svn repository 02:47:59 <kkb110_> ...... ok..... thanks 02:48:53 <planetmaker> hg and git work differently there, and thus the tags are not easily mirrored to those 03:02:30 <iddqd> what does this mean? 03:02:36 <iddqd> Canât place here, airport too spread out 03:02:38 <iddqd> erm 03:02:43 <iddqd> canât place airport here, stations too spread out 03:08:18 <fjb|tab> Did you join it with other station tiles os bus stops? 03:10:57 *** FLHerne [~francis@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:11:08 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest22423 03:11:09 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDC06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 03:16:22 *** Guest22423 [~frank@p5DDFCEA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:20:45 *** encoded [~encoded@adsl-65-23-250-212.prtc.net] has joined #openttd 03:25:39 <iddqd> yes fjb|tab 03:46:09 <encoded> why are there so many bus crashes with trains D: 03:46:42 <encoded> does killing people affect my reputation? 03:52:07 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:e59b:40ba:1caa:336f] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:54:25 <supermop_> in real life? yes 03:54:32 <supermop_> i'd advise against it 03:59:52 *** sup [sup@CPE-58-173-130-11.cjcz1.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 04:08:56 *** Elukka [~Elukka@78-27-84-248.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 04:26:48 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 04:28:51 <kkb110_> I'm making something interesting :) automatic one-way train 04:29:35 <kkb110_> trains will be automatically sold after unloading and purchased again at a depot near loading station 04:30:43 <kkb110_> the point is, I can use this in goal servers :) 04:51:55 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 05:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause> encoded: each time an accident happens (bus or plane crash), all nearby station ratings drop to 0 and only slowly recover 05:18:50 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop_] 05:21:58 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 05:28:53 <planetmaker> kkb110_: that idea isn't new... Rondje implemented that cheat method years ago 05:28:56 <planetmaker> ;-) 05:29:41 <DDR> Say, how do the goal servers work, anyway? 05:45:05 <kkb110_> planetmaker, oh really? is there a website or something I can download and see? 05:46:05 <kkb110_> DDR, it's a competition, your company has to grow as fast as you can 05:46:10 <adamkex> are the deb files that are available for download also usable for dedicated servers? 05:46:46 <kkb110_> once somebody reaches a certain size, he wins and the game will be restarted 05:50:50 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74E3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:51:12 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74C5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:52:36 <DDR> OK -- kkb110_, is there any tracking of how many companies you've grown? 06:02:26 <Rubidium> adamkex: yes, all binaries can also be used as dedicated server unless you built the binary without network support. But the .debs have network support, so it will have the dedicated server 06:03:28 <kkb110_> DDR, no, the server only consider one company you're controlling now 06:04:33 <kkb110_> DDR, are you asking about ranking board? yes, some servers provides each user's overall score through many games 06:04:41 <adamkex> Rubidium: thanks, since i am not using debian/ubuntu, do those debs have X/sdl as a dependancy? 06:04:53 <adamkex> Rubidium: i can't check the deps 06:05:40 <Rubidium> adamkex: yes, they depend on sdl and some other libraries that aren't needed for a server 06:06:19 <adamkex> Rubidium: so then i guess i have to compile from source if i do not want SDL, correct? 06:06:41 <Rubidium> yup 06:07:12 <DDR> Thanks. :) 06:16:34 <adamkex> Rubidium: ok thanks 06:25:57 *** Twofish [~Twofish@box80-64-205-146.static.sdsl.no] has joined #openttd 06:56:08 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:59:30 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 07:43:07 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:44:38 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #openttd [] 07:59:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:05:50 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest22435 08:05:50 *** Guest22435 [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:05:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:38:30 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 08:38:40 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:44:16 <andythenorth> mornings 08:45:54 <peter1138> indeeds 08:50:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1931C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:51:49 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest22436 08:51:49 *** Guest22436 [~frank@p5DDFDC06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:51:50 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDC06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:09:34 *** mib_o5tg5w [44311796@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 09:10:18 *** mib_o5tg5w [44311796@ircip4.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 09:11:05 *** TdlQ [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 09:14:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-180-12-160.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has left #openttd [] 09:19:53 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:41:56 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc2302.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:55:39 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-002-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 10:33:10 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc2302.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:43:22 *** TomyLobo [~foo@p4FC221C2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:07:01 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-009-050.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 11:12:14 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-93-36.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:18:16 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 8.0/20111115183541]] 11:21:34 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:21:35 *** adamkex [~adam@h18n3-fre-d2.ias.bredband.telia.com] has left #openttd [] 11:22:53 <Wolf01> o/ 11:24:05 <__ln__> bueno nuevo anno duemilunodue 11:26:33 <TrueBrain> @kick __ln__ English only (you had thatone coming) 11:26:33 *** __ln__ was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [English only (you had thatone coming)] 11:28:11 <planetmaker> moin 11:29:14 *** __ln__ [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-77-86-195-192.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 11:40:13 <planetmaker> wb :-) 11:40:23 <__ln__> ty 11:42:16 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-93-36.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:43:05 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-93-36.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 11:43:25 *** encoded [~encoded@adsl-65-23-250-212.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:44:50 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-151-203.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:45:05 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 11:48:20 *** TomyLobo2 [~foo@p4FC221C2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:49:55 <appe_> hm, i wish to set up my first own openttd-server. in terms of manual and wiki, where do i start? :) 11:50:47 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-30-182.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:50:55 <TrueBrain> http://wiki.openttd.org/ ? :D 11:51:28 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.94.178] has joined #openttd 11:51:38 <appe_> yes, well ..yes. 11:52:12 <appe_> ah, i see. the FAQ_multiplayer should be enough? 11:54:14 *** TomyLobo [~foo@p4FC221C2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:54:14 *** TomyLobo2 is now known as TomyLobo 12:02:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23711 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Codechange: don't chain the two vehicle hashes, but call them one by one 12:02:40 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23712 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: rename the two vehicle hashes we have to names that make clear where they differ in 12:12:21 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDC06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:14:50 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDC06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:19:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:31:19 <andythenorth> if my house is using 666 Watts of electricity, would that be bad? 12:33:30 <blathijs> andythenorth: Just make sure you don't maintaint that power usage for 666 seconds, cause then you'll have a Hell Gate open near your breaker box ;-P 12:34:44 <andythenorth> I'll boil the kettle 12:34:51 <andythenorth> that will put it to ~4KW 12:34:51 <andythenorth> :P 13:25:36 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:15f2:2c45:4202:17e5] has joined #openttd 13:25:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:31:36 <iddqd> hiya 13:31:39 <iddqd> i canâ;t fund large towns 13:31:46 <iddqd> is this a server config issue? or what 13:31:53 <Yexo> I think that's intended 13:32:04 <Yexo> if you fund towns in-game you should grow them by providing good transport 13:32:04 <planetmaker> you can only fund small ones 13:32:43 <iddqd> also whjat is the difference between a city and non cityu 13:39:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23713 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: split VehicleMove() into two functions, to minimalize the work done where possible 13:39:28 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23714 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: don't mix Viewport with non-viewport code 13:46:54 *** jordgubb [4e453ecd@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 13:46:57 <jordgubb> hi 13:47:21 <jordgubb> just a question 13:48:01 <__ln__> but no answer? 13:48:05 <jordgubb> do you need anything to play lan on openTTD? 13:48:07 *** RetiredNavyVet [~Gary_n_Sa@cpe-76-88-70-139.san.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:50:29 *** RetiredNavyVet [~Gary_n_Sa@cpe-76-88-70-139.san.res.rr.com] has quit [] 13:51:38 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:25 <Yexo> a computer would be nice, and don't forget the local network 13:52:58 <planetmaker> a computer. a network. and a 2nd computer. and a router. A OS which supports running OpenTTD, means to obtain OpenTTD and actually unzipping or installing it and appropriate base graphics 13:53:04 <SpComb> a router? 13:53:24 <planetmaker> it's also more fun to have a 2nd mate than play solo a lan game 13:53:24 <kais58> s/router/switch/ 13:53:42 <kais58> just most routers have built in switches 13:53:42 <TrueBrain> s/switch/a hub or better/ 13:54:02 <SpComb> a patch cable and MDI-X nics :) 13:54:17 <TrueBrain> SpComb: or just a crosscable 13:54:36 <SpComb> everything does MDI-X now, crossover cables are dead 13:54:38 <TrueBrain> well, I guess you can even setup a nullmodem for it 13:54:58 <TrueBrain> SpComb: everyone has a router, but that was not the point here :) 13:55:22 <SpComb> LAN parties with internet access are lame 13:55:42 *** Elukka [~Elukka@78-27-84-248.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:56:02 * kais58 slaps Elukka with a large trout 13:56:14 <planetmaker> jordgubb: as you see: we take questions literally. We don't like meta-questions. We don't like to do guesswork caused by fuzzy questions :-) 13:56:14 * Elukka is trouted 13:57:35 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:10:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.187.163] has joined #openttd 14:16:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.164.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:26:19 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 14:54:47 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d086569.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:55:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:00:39 *** Biolunar_ [~mahdi@blfd-4d08e09e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:05:55 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d086569.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:09:21 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 15:10:25 *** Twofish [~Twofish@box80-64-205-146.static.sdsl.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:16:05 *** TdlQ_ [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 15:18:56 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 15:20:30 *** encoded [~encoded@adsl-65-23-250-212.prtc.net] has joined #openttd 15:21:53 *** TdlQ [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:22:13 *** SystemParadox [~simon@proxima.systemparadox.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:23:34 *** SystemParadox [~simon@proxima.systemparadox.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:53 *** SystemParadox [~simon@proxima.systemparadox.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:31:16 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Server closed connection] 15:32:17 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 15:32:21 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 15:41:20 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has left #openttd [] 15:41:20 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 15:41:23 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 15:42:34 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDC06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:48 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDC06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:44:00 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:48:23 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:53:36 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:53:54 *** MagisterQuis [~Adium@c-69-251-184-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 15:57:56 *** Mark [mark@rikskriminalpolisen.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 15:58:01 *** Markk [mark@rikskriminalpolisen.com] has joined #openttd 15:58:14 *** Markk is now known as Mark 16:00:54 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 16:01:16 *** luQue [~lkz@luckz.de] has quit [Server closed connection] 16:01:17 *** luckz [~lkz@luckz.de] has joined #openttd 16:01:19 *** MagisterQuis1 [~Adium@c-69-251-184-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:12:57 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6DB6C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:14:25 *** jordgubb [4e453ecd@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 16:15:25 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-26-113-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:15:31 <Wolfsherz> hi, is using dbsetxl still recommended for the actual openttd version? 16:15:53 <Elukka> don't think there's any problems with it 16:16:43 <Rubidium> I wouldn't recommend it; it's too difficult to get it, and it's just ancient and it hasn't had any bugfix for many many years 16:17:31 <Wolfsherz> thats too bad :( any good replacement available? 16:20:27 <Wolfsherz> i'm trying to get together a good set of newgrf... i am currently playing with German Town Names 16:20:27 <Wolfsherz> Total Town Replacement Set 16:20:27 <Wolfsherz> Modified Building Costs 16:20:27 <Wolfsherz> Industrial Stations Renewal 16:20:27 <Wolfsherz> New Stations 16:20:28 <Wolfsherz> Stations Name from nearby Industry 16:20:30 <Wolfsherz> DBSetXL 16:20:34 <Wolfsherz> DB Double Deck Coaches 16:20:36 <Wolfsherz> German Road Vehicles 16:20:38 <Wolfsherz> New Ships 16:20:40 <Wolfsherz> German Signals 16:20:42 <Wolfsherz> Generic Buffers 16:21:07 <TrueBrain> please use pastebins for such lists 16:21:08 <TrueBrain> thank you. 16:21:23 <Wolfsherz> it was supposed to be a one-liner, sorry 16:21:26 <Rubidium> Wolfsherz: DBSetXL is from (roughly) the time before OpenTTD supported NewGRFs 16:21:29 <TrueBrain> no problem :) 16:21:29 *** JVassie [~James@2.30.128.207] has joined #openttd 16:22:19 <Wolfsherz> Rubidium: which train set do you use personally? 16:23:04 <Rubidium> the default trains 16:23:25 <Chris_Booth> Wolfsherz: I use UKRS 3.04 has some great trains 16:23:40 <Chris_Booth> not a great looking set again it is for befor openttd had newgrfs 16:24:38 <Yexo> not sure of the current state of CETS, but you might like to try that one (use openttd 1.2.0-beta1 or a recent trunk version) 16:27:47 <Wolfsherz> what does CETS stand for? 16:29:41 <Yexo> central european train set 16:29:49 <Yexo> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets 16:30:32 <encoded> is OpenTTD what "train freaks" do nowadays? 16:30:52 <planetmaker> funnily enough, there are two German Townname sets, Wolfsherz ;-) 16:31:30 <Wolfsherz> planetmaker: i just know of one 16:32:00 <planetmaker> there's the one on bananas. And there's one hidden somewhere in the German forums, albeit a bit older 16:33:02 <planetmaker> the bananas one has in comparison additionally the option to generate random names. 16:34:11 <Wolfsherz> i have got the one from bananas 16:34:30 <Wolfsherz> Yexo: trying that train set, thank you 16:38:55 <Eddi|zuHause> CETS has lots of missing graphics still (you'll get green boxes floating around) 16:39:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and (almost) no prices have been set 16:39:14 <Wolfsherz> duh 16:42:31 <Wolfsherz> you can zoom in now? great! thanks! 16:45:26 <Wolfsherz> what about these opengfx+ sets? any good? 16:47:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.187.163] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.187.163] has joined #openttd 16:48:14 <Yexo> yes, very :) 16:48:34 <Yexo> they basically provides small improvements over the default without changing too much 16:48:59 <Yexo> opengfx+landscape provides a gridless landscape, opengfx+airports allows you to rotate airports, opengfx+trains/rv allows you to refit your vehicles etc. 16:50:25 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-002-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 16:50:57 <Snail_> planetmaker: I did some more work on the tunnels we talked about yesterday 16:51:06 <planetmaker> :-) 16:51:52 <Snail_> http://imagebin.org/191379 16:52:19 <Snail_> the top 2 lines are attempts for the northbound tunnels 16:52:28 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74C5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:52:40 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74C5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:52:55 <Snail_> I tried to shorten the "bowl" in 2 different sizes. Which one do you think is better? 16:53:04 <Eddi|zuHause> circuit breakers are evil... 16:53:28 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and then i'm like "wait... how do you boot this thing again?" 16:53:31 <planetmaker> you mean north-east? 16:53:44 <planetmaker> (North is straight up) 16:53:48 <Snail_> north-west 16:54:10 <Snail_> the first 2 lines are NW-bound with two different lengths for the bowl 16:54:29 <Snail_> the last 2 rows are the SE- and SW-bound with more grass as we discussed yesterday 16:55:38 <planetmaker> comparing the upper two for NW bound... unsure, possibly the lower one. But would need test, I guess 16:55:55 <Snail_> ok 16:56:04 <planetmaker> don't throw away the other ones yet 16:56:07 <planetmaker> ;-) 16:56:30 <Snail_> I can send you both and then we can test it. I'm almost done 16:58:35 <planetmaker> sure 17:00:30 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:03:45 <Eddi|zuHause> *mental note* don't debug configuration problems as root on the wrong machine 17:08:55 <Elukka> i said browsing the brawa site for reference would get expensive... i was going to buy one small wagon to see how it runs 17:08:59 <Elukka> now i have six coming 17:13:18 <Snail_> planetmaker: I assume you will also need some custom tunnel portals to test this, right? 17:19:37 *** astol [~Adium@188.134.65.81] has joined #openttd 17:19:48 <astol> hey guys 17:20:19 <astol> Just tried 1.1.4 version, it was a long time since I played last time 17:20:29 <astol> can't figure out how to use new signals, Path signals 17:20:50 <astol> I mean, they're explained pretty good everywhere 17:20:54 <encoded> its easy! 17:21:17 <astol> yeah, I guess - from the amount of questions on the internet (not much) 17:21:23 <encoded> :D 17:21:42 <astol> so I think I'm missing some obvious point here 17:21:50 <Elukka> well, i'd say they're easier than the normal signals 17:22:29 <astol> what's the most basic way to use them? 17:22:29 <Elukka> for small networks they're very forgiving, but it's good practice to only put signals in places where a train can safely (ie, not blocking a junction) wait 17:22:54 <astol> Yeah, that I get 17:23:17 <astol> but I can't understand how to replace placement I'm used to with path signals 17:23:59 <Elukka> just place signals far away enough from junctions to be safe and then on the line as normal 17:24:45 <Yexo> astol: remove all your exit signals, replace all entry signals by a path signal. Combo signals you either have to replace or remove, depends on the situation 17:25:06 <astol> hmmm 17:25:22 <astol> I'm really oldschool, never used presignals :) 17:25:29 <astol> here's what I usually use 17:25:31 <astol> https://skitch.com/koriza/gipc3/openttd-1.1.4 17:25:58 <astol> when I need to put two trains on a single track 17:26:30 <astol> how do I replace this configuration with path signals? 17:26:55 <astol> or maybe I'm just using some stupid configuration to start with? 17:27:43 <astol> Yexo: replace with what? 17:27:49 <Yexo> a path signal 17:28:18 <Yexo> astol: put two path signals in that image in total 17:28:37 <Yexo> one on the left track and one on the right track, both at the end of the lane facing the double tracks 17:29:51 <astol> https://skitch.com/koriza/gipp3/openttd-1.1.4 17:29:55 <astol> Like this you mean? 17:30:17 <astol> wait, no, not like this.. 17:30:20 <Wolfsherz> does 1.2 beta1 have a new title game? 17:30:46 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/pbs.png like this 17:30:50 <Yexo> Wolfsherz: no 17:31:01 <Yexo> Wolfsherz: it'll probably be in 1.2.0-rc1 17:31:17 <Wolfsherz> but 1.1.4 had a different one 17:33:47 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but the 1.2 one has not been decided yet 17:33:52 <astol> (experimenting) 17:34:03 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-009-050.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 17:37:24 <astol> well guys, looks like I've got it :) 17:37:34 <astol> thanks a lot! 17:37:48 <astol> the only thing that keeps bothering me, is how did I manage to make them crash 17:38:31 <astol> if the train waits until he reserves a path that doesn't cross anyone else's path 17:45:57 <appe_> im playing on a server, and i have never done it like this before. i keep going bancrupt, but i cant see why 17:46:06 <appe_> is there a standard time limit for a loan? 17:46:18 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-26-113-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:48:56 <planetmaker> Snail_: yes, that would be good. It would be nice, if I would have alignment data for them, too. 17:53:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:54:22 <Snail_> planetmaker: ok, I will draw them and make a scheme so that you know how to align them 17:56:17 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6DB6C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:56:52 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:57:56 *** SystemParadox [~simon@proxima.systemparadox.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:58:22 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 18:08:36 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@kamina.ldn1.uk.e43.eu] has quit [Server closed connection] 18:10:17 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@kamina.ldn1.uk.e43.eu] has joined #openttd 18:14:24 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 18:16:59 <Terkhen> hello 18:31:16 *** tty234 [telex@anapnea.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 18:31:22 *** tty234 [telex@anapnea.net] has joined #openttd 18:37:09 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1931C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:14 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23715 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files): 18:40:14 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:40:14 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 48 changes by Phreeze 18:40:14 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: portuguese - 7 changes by SupSuper 18:40:14 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: turkish - 100 changes by niw3 18:40:15 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 11 changes by Fixer 18:40:15 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: welsh - 1 changes by kazzie 18:43:52 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc2302.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:50:17 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1931C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:01:03 *** nat_ [~chatzilla@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 19:01:22 <nat_> Hey, is there any way to remove newgrif files from scenerios? 19:01:47 <nat_> you used to be able to disable them once you opened the scenerio, it would just start paused and warn you about instablility 19:02:24 <Yexo> too many people ignored that warning and still filed bug reports, so we've disabled that functionality be default now 19:02:28 <nat_> By my favorite map has a Newgrif dependency that cannot be found anywhere, and I can't take it off. 19:02:29 <Rubidium> yeah, and 99% ignored the message and a significant part of these people complained/filed bug reports caused by the removed NewGRFs 19:02:34 <nat_> is there away to turn it back on? 19:02:52 <nat_> because in older versions I never had that problem with this specific map 19:02:59 <nat_> I don't even know why the Newgrif is in it. 19:03:09 <Yexo> yes, by turning on the scenario developer setting 19:03:15 <Yexo> search around if you don't know how 19:03:17 <nat_> where is that option? 19:03:22 <Rubidium> I think you you mean "noticed" instead of "had" 19:08:39 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590d5d52.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:09:24 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.4.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 19:10:32 <nat_> well I turned that option on and I get a different bug. It's complaining about invalid town name genorators. 19:10:36 *** nirox [~nirox@94-246-44.52.3p.ntebredband.no] has quit [Server closed connection] 19:10:42 *** nirox [~nirox@94-246-44.52.3p.ntebredband.no] has joined #openttd 19:10:49 <nat_> is there any way to remove a grif from a scenario without opening it? 19:11:10 <nat_> I used to just be able to open the scenerio and remove the grif and nothing happened. 19:11:18 <nat_> The Map is "The Barrens" 19:11:58 <nat_> http://wiki.openttd.org/Scenario_by_Setting_-_Sub-Tropical 19:13:11 <Terkhen> nat_: that's one of the errors you can get after removing NewGRFs, yes 19:13:23 <Terkhen> and no, you need to open it at the scenario editor or as a game 19:13:37 <nat_> same thing happens if I do either. 19:13:48 <nat_> it worked back in the old versions 19:14:01 <Yexo> the scenario "The Barrens" opens for me without any problems 19:14:02 <nat_> is there no way to sanitize this map for the ones? 19:14:08 <Yexo> the grf can be found in the openttdcoop grf pack 19:15:24 <Terkhen> you need the NewGRFs included in the scenario... if you don't care about industry/town placement you can open the scenario in the scenario editor using 1.2.0-beta1 and use "save as heightmap" 19:15:36 <Terkhen> then you can play that heightmap with whatever climate/NewGRF selection you want 19:16:03 <Yexo> "the barrens uses "English (Additional)" as town names, you shouldn't get an error on that 19:16:51 <nat_> it says it needs newstatsw.grf 19:17:01 <Yexo> <Yexo> the grf can be found in the openttdcoop grf pack <- as I said, it can be found 19:17:04 <planetmaker> yeah. get that newgrf 19:18:28 <nat_> why aren't they on the list in the game? 19:19:01 <Yexo> because the author of that newgrf didn't upload it, and nobody else is allowed to 19:19:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:21:19 <nat_> do I just copy everything from the zip into the directory? 19:21:29 <nat_> /data that is 19:21:35 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: do we need wÃŒrttemberg coaches? they look pretty nice and distinct 19:22:36 <nat_> oh strange 19:22:48 <nat_> I still get the broken savegame problem with the right grif 19:22:49 <nat_> :C 19:25:43 <nat_> that's my favorite map and I can't get it to work 19:26:27 *** JVassie_ [~James@2.25.185.185] has joined #openttd 19:29:16 *** stinkyfax [~stinkyfax@wowmod.eu] has quit [Server closed connection] 19:29:17 *** stinkyfax [~stinkyfax@wowmod.eu] has joined #openttd 19:32:10 *** JVassie [~James@2.30.128.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:32:50 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:32:59 *** JVassie [~James@2.30.129.63] has joined #openttd 19:36:07 *** JVassie_ [~James@2.25.185.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:38:54 <Zuu> nat_: Can you create a new map with that particular NewGRF? Does the md5 of the newgrf that you downloaded match the one used in the scenario? 19:39:09 <Zuu> Could be that it is a older version in the scenario maybe? 19:41:25 <Zuu> Btw, for me it says that the path to the newgrf file is ottdc_grfpack_stations\newstats\newstatsw.grf 19:41:45 <Zuu> ottdc_grfpack is a directory in my data directory in Documents\OpenTTD. 19:42:38 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r23716 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Revert (r23705)[FS#4937]: unforeseen consequences 19:42:48 <nat_> the scenario is old 19:43:01 <nat_> and I can't find a newer version 19:43:08 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc2302.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:45:31 <Zuu> I ment that you must make sure to obtain exactly the verison of the newgrf as was used for the scenario. Not a newer one. Not a older one. 19:46:38 <Zuu> As the path I posted above doesn't go into a legacy pack, it shows that you should be good with the last stable grf pack. 19:47:07 <nat_> oh? 19:47:32 <Zuu> But if you want to debug this further, you could match the md5 of your downloaded newgrf-file and what is claimed by the scenario. 19:47:40 <nat_> so how do I do that? 19:49:47 <nat_> the map was made for 0.6.0-beta2, so which pack would correspond with that pack? 19:49:56 <nat_> that build rather 19:50:51 <appe_> bah 19:50:52 <appe_> this sucks 19:50:53 <Zuu> Do you know what md5 is? If not, I suggest reading up a bit or waiting for someone with more patience to explain it. You could also start by mentioning with OS you run. 19:51:21 <appe_> early in a hard network game. bus build iron ore > steel mill > factory > city 19:51:42 <appe_> no particular money, and the iron ore industry vanishes 19:51:46 <appe_> twat-faces life. 19:51:48 <appe_> :< 19:51:51 <nat_> windows 7 19:51:57 <SpComb> appe_: reincorporate 19:52:05 <Zuu> nat_: also did you do as I suggested to verify that OpenTTD finds the grf in question by trying to create a new game with it? 19:53:24 <appe_> SpComb: no money, and to strict loan rules. 19:54:30 <nat_> MD5sum is 44EB2F155862E4D4F0AB67 19:55:49 <Zuu> of what? 19:55:50 <nat_> and making a map with it normaly works fine 19:56:11 <Zuu> both, or just one? 19:56:35 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Server closed connection] 19:56:36 <nat_> you know, I don't think I can tell 19:56:36 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 19:56:42 <Rubidium> 6D620601 44EB2F155862E4D4F0AB671D7021AF54 NewStations V0.42 05.09.05 (one of 6 with the same name) 19:56:48 <nat_> the game seems to assume this is the one it needs, 19:57:01 <nat_> well Fffffffffffffffffffffff 19:57:19 * nat_ shakes fist at whoever decided to give 6 different versions the same name. 19:58:57 <nat_> how do I know which one i need? 19:59:08 <nat_> the game just seems to match the name 19:59:22 <planetmaker> the load game dialoge will tell you the md5version. But it should load also w/o matching md5sum 20:01:32 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 20:01:58 <nat_> oh here we go 20:02:20 <nat_> no wait it shows the same one as before. 20:03:29 <nat_> I could just do the highmap thing, but in a tropical map that would ruin the desert bits 20:03:38 <nat_> also I like the industry/town placement 20:03:49 <Zuu> nat_: Try last nightly 20:03:52 <Zuu> of OpenTTD. 20:04:06 <Zuu> I get the broken town generator error with 1.1, but not with last nightly. 20:04:12 <nat_> should I uninstall? 20:04:25 <Zuu> 1.2 beta will probably also work. I'll check. 20:04:40 <nat_> uninstall first? 20:04:51 <Zuu> 1.2-beta 1 also works. 20:04:53 <planetmaker> openttd needs no real install 20:04:57 <Zuu> You can have them side by side 20:05:01 <nat_> cool 20:05:03 <planetmaker> just unzip the newer one into a dir parallel 20:05:25 <Zuu> To clarify, not in the same directory as you 1.1, but another. 20:06:45 <nat_> and If I install over it will it replace it? 20:06:48 <nat_> or will it break? 20:07:15 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 20:07:33 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 20:07:37 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 20:07:37 <Zuu> It will usually not break, but mixing manual install with installation managed by an installer is sually not a good idea. 20:07:56 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 20:08:10 <Zuu> However, if you overwrite your old files, make sure to unzip all files of 1.2 beta, not just openttd.exe. 20:08:29 <nat_> i use installer for both cases 20:08:34 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 20:08:36 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 20:08:37 <Zuu> Cleanest and best is however to make a separate install. Your config files etc. are usally not stored ther anyway. 20:08:42 <Zuu> there* 20:08:45 <nat_> I'm not confidant to manual install. 20:09:04 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 20:09:32 <nat_> IT WORKS! 20:09:37 <nat_> thank you people! 20:12:06 <Zuu> You will want to checkout the forums or openttd.org for next beta and the RCs as they arrive. I usually run the nightly builds with works in most cases so the beta should be fairly stable, but when running "blending edge" it is a good idea to get all updates. 20:13:19 <nat_> the old question, run the latest and have support, or the older ones and have stability. 20:14:41 <Zuu> In case of OpenTTD, I would just run the latest and have all recent bug fixes. In fact I've written a luancher for OpenTTD that updates it before starting it. :-) 20:15:18 <nat_> another unrelated question, is there any way to make the towns less anal? without cheating or anything 20:15:32 <nat_> Bribery is really expensive and not really effective. 20:15:39 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #openttd [] 20:15:41 <Zuu> Buy them trees 20:15:44 <nat_> the only real way to lobby is to plant tons and tons of trees 20:15:45 <nat_> yeah 20:15:51 <nat_> but sometimes i run out of room for trees 20:15:59 <nat_> you should be able to buy them upgrades 20:16:02 <Zuu> Then demolish the trees and build new ones. 20:16:03 <nat_> or hire lobyists. 20:16:12 <nat_> but demolishing the tress makes them mad aggain 20:16:31 <Zuu> There is a mimimum level on how angry they can get. So demolish more trees than that limit and then build them up again. 20:16:42 <nat_> Ohhhh 20:16:54 <nat_> anyways, there should at least be an extra permissive level 20:18:47 <nat_> because permissive isn't 20:18:53 <planetmaker> oh it is. 20:18:58 <nat_> I can't imagine playing the game on the less permissive levels 20:19:10 <planetmaker> it's just not the cozy forgiveness a mother has with her 3-year old ;-) 20:19:19 <Zuu> Make sure to build your stations before building the infrastructure and you should be good. 20:19:35 <nat_> also, they should temporarily lower there raiting when they offer subsadies 20:19:43 <nat_> because that's just TERRIBLE 20:20:14 <nat_> "Connect us to that other town NOW!" "sure just let me build this roa..." "NO!" 20:20:51 <nat_> also, how do i turn tooltips on 20:20:58 <nat_> I can't tell what all these crazy signals are without them 20:21:02 <Zuu> They are on 20:21:13 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:20 <Zuu> Depending on your settings either hold your mouse a while or right click on the buttons. 20:21:24 <nat_> oh wait I was just not holding it down 20:21:35 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:22:06 <Zuu> Hmm, this scenario provides some good excercise for my AI :-) 20:24:54 <iddqd> what are must have newgrf files to play with? 20:29:00 <nat_> I like tropical refurbishment 20:29:03 <nat_> or whatever it's called 20:29:12 <nat_> and industrial stations 20:29:58 <nat_> are there any AIs that aren' 20:30:04 <nat_> aren't retarded? 20:30:37 <Zuu> please define retarded 20:31:01 <nat_> build crazy shit that goes nowhere and gets in the way 20:31:03 <nat_> and looks ugly 20:31:22 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:24 <nat_> also, is it worth it to build short range air routes to fill a maill subsady? 20:31:37 <Zuu> sure, there are several quite good AIs 20:33:27 <nat_> it would be cool if you could build depots like stations 20:33:36 <Zuu> But mind showing a bit more respect to the effort that all AI authors has spent on their AI. I'm sure several of them have taken 100 hours or more to write. 20:33:46 <nat_> make servicing trains without causing traffic jams easier. 20:34:04 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23717 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4927]: ships going to wrong dock location when moving the dock while the game is paused 20:34:15 <iddqd> if a server adds grf files 20:34:21 <iddqd> are clients forced to download them as well? 20:34:23 <iddqd> or how does that work 20:34:36 <MagisterQuis> Ok, so why do we have to have grf files to run a dedicated server? 20:34:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23718 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_core.cpp game/game_core.cpp): -Fix [FS#4936]: rescanai caused crash when the AI settings of an AI was opened 20:35:06 <TrueBrain> MagisterQuis: grfs are more than graphics 20:35:21 <TrueBrain> it is like needed the executable to run a dedicated 20:35:28 <TrueBrain> only grfs are plugable files 20:35:32 <MagisterQuis> TrueBrain: Oh. 20:35:32 <MagisterQuis> Ok. 20:35:46 <TrueBrain> iddqd: yes; if the GRFs are on BaNaNaS, this is made really easy. 20:35:53 <Rubidium> grf stands for "game resource file" 20:38:59 <Eddi|zuHause> that, of course, is a backronym 20:40:44 <nat_> it is? 20:44:39 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:45:58 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: at least it's better than "graphics resource file" or whatever else you come up with that contains graphics 20:48:51 *** MagisterQuis1 [~Adium@c-69-251-184-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 20:51:58 *** astol [~Adium@188.134.65.81] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:55:25 *** MagisterQuis [~Adium@c-69-251-184-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:55:56 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 20:56:18 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:56:48 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 20:57:56 <DDR> ^Spike^: Are you the last one? 20:58:26 <nat_> towns don't seem to care about resources delivered to industries within there radius 20:58:37 <^Spike^> i hope not.... i hate to repopulate the world :) 20:58:39 <nat_> even if they care about the train station that was developed to connect to it 20:58:48 <nat_> I guess people in this game don't have jobs 20:59:34 <DDR> Guess you're not golden, then. :( 21:00:16 <DDR> (yeah, that required a bit of [canadian] railroading history to make sense :P ) 21:00:46 <nat_> explain? 21:02:58 <DDR> Ok, I mean 'american', not 'canadian'-- here's the link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_spike 21:03:21 <DDR> Ah well, not much difference. 21:05:36 <nat_> oh 21:05:48 <nat_> it would be nice if you could place office buildings in cities 21:06:22 <DDR> You can. :P You can fund the construction of new buildings, but it costs a lot. 21:06:42 <nat_> they could either lobby (slowly spend lots of money to raise the towns attitude over a long period of time) or administer (lower maintenance costs of everything by a small amount) 21:06:52 <nat_> I mean office buildings for your company 21:06:57 <nat_> not just the HQ 21:07:11 <DDR> Oh. Yeah, that'd be interesting. 21:07:40 <DDR> Planting trees seems a little strange after the first full-blown forest. 21:09:48 <frosch123> mayans were wrong. grfcrawler was not shut down at the end of 2011 21:10:57 *** JVassie [~James@2.30.129.63] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:19 *** JVassie [~James@2.30.129.31] has joined #openttd 21:13:38 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-009-050.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 21:15:16 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 21:15:56 *** Strid_ [~Strid@c-4bc9e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Server closed connection] 21:15:58 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 21:16:18 *** XaTriX [5b791789@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:16:19 *** Strid_ [~Strid@c-4bc9e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 21:29:12 <Terkhen> good night 21:34:14 *** astol [~Adium@188.134.65.81] has joined #openttd 21:37:15 *** iddqd [no.dongs@dhcp-077-251-045-037.chello.nl] has quit [Server closed connection] 21:37:19 *** iddqd [no.dongs@dhcp-077-251-045-037.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 21:37:34 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 21:39:35 <nat_> why is the macarana in this game? 21:41:38 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.94.178] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:52:15 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23719 /trunk/src/network/network_content.cpp: -Fix [FS#4930]: extraction of music packs failed 21:52:41 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: is the 'official' scale length/24x12 or 24x12.5 now? 21:52:50 <Eddi|zuHause> 12 21:53:08 <Rubidium> *sigh* 21:54:23 <Elukka> alright 21:55:34 <planetmaker> what makes your heart so heavy, dear Rubidium? 21:55:47 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc2302.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 21:56:42 <Rubidium> planetmaker: the words "officials" and "scale" being used in a sentence without "no" or "none" 21:56:53 <planetmaker> :-) 21:56:57 <planetmaker> yeah 21:57:07 <planetmaker> well. concerning a certain set that may make sense 21:57:13 <planetmaker> concerning openttd: certainly not 22:00:40 <Elukka> it's related to cets in particular, so it makes sense here 22:03:11 <Rubidium> a track is 5 pixels wide, a tile is 8 pixels high. Assuming Dutch rail that's respectively 1.435m and >5m 22:03:37 <Rubidium> not really up-to-scale I'd say 22:04:02 <Elukka> yes but my question was related to the length of rail vehicles within a newgrf where it's pretty important 22:08:06 <nat_> argh why can I never get signals to work 22:08:28 <nat_> two trains count as being on the same block even though the way the tracks are arranged they could never intersect 22:08:42 <nat_> without making greater than 90deg turns 22:09:44 <Elukka> are you using path signals? 22:09:58 <Elukka> if not, use them, watch it work 22:10:56 <nat_> I do 22:11:00 <nat_> oh path signals? 22:11:03 <nat_> I use presignals 22:11:08 <nat_> I don't understand path signals 22:11:28 <nat_> heck even the enter-exit-combo presignals confuse me 22:11:36 <Elukka> path signals are simpler than that 22:11:37 <nat_> it dosn't help that they all look similar. 22:11:48 <Elukka> for the most part they're just normal signals but they let multiple trains to the same signal block if their paths don't cross 22:11:49 <nat_> is there a good tutorial? 22:11:56 <nat_> oh 22:12:31 <nat_> what I /try/ to do is have a two way track. then have a station shunted to the side of that 22:12:33 <SpComb> they're quite different 22:12:43 <Elukka> put them only in positions where your trains can safely wait (ie not block a junction), so however long your longest train is, put them that distance away from a junction 22:12:48 <SpComb> well, in that how they reseve track 22:13:02 <SpComb> on the trailing side 22:13:03 <Elukka> nat, that's probably a lot easier with path signals 22:13:04 <nat_> the station gets 1 bay for each different train visiting, in the chance they all decide they want to load at once. 22:13:18 <SpComb> i.e immediately before a junction, and a train length after 22:15:02 <nat_> is there a good tutorial? 22:24:05 <V453000> just note one thing, pre-signals might not be as simple, but at the same time offer much more possibilities and trust me that they are the "better" signals in the end ;) 22:24:58 <nat_> shit, time for work 22:25:10 <nat_> argh, I havn't finished lunch yet! 22:25:17 <nat_> I might just bike In i guess. 22:25:50 <Elukka> path signals are the best general signal, though 22:26:03 <Elukka> easiest to learn, i'd say, too 22:26:53 <V453000> easiest, no doubt, but they also offer much less than pre-signals 22:27:08 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDC06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:27:20 <nat_> well what am I doing wrong with my presignals? 22:27:55 <Elukka> i haven't really found an awful lot of use for presignals 22:28:02 <V453000> what problem do you have nat_ ? 22:28:06 <nat_> how do I take screenshots? 22:28:31 <V453000> Elukka: with realistic network there probably isnt any indeed, but lets not get to discuss what is realistic and what not 22:29:34 <Elukka> not sure what signal types have to do with realism 22:30:12 <nat_> is there a screeshot key? 22:30:20 <V453000> ctrl S nat_ 22:30:40 <V453000> Elukka: quite a lot, with realistic whatever people tend to hate "extra tracks" just for signal logic 22:30:50 <Elukka> ah, yes 22:30:59 <Elukka> i don't really do that, admittedly for aesthetics but also because i can't be arsed :P 22:31:03 <V453000> and 99% "realistic" people use only PBS since they dont need to bother with any signal logic 22:31:18 <Elukka> signal logic tracks aren't something a new player learning signals should try to get into, though 22:31:30 <nat_> I hate how a train station will quickly become larger than the city it services 22:31:44 <nat_> I'd like to see a transport game where train tracks only take up half a tile 22:31:46 <SpComb> if it's inefficient 22:31:52 <nat_> and a two way track is the same width as a road. 22:31:58 <nat_> like in real life. 22:31:59 <SpComb> or the town very small 22:32:08 <Elukka> ideally, two tracks would fit within a tile 22:32:19 <Elukka> at the current scale they would, the game just doesn't support it 22:32:33 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p57941E76.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:32:45 <V453000> Elukka: certainly nothing a new player should learn immediately, but using the appropriate signals is vital. In general, PBS lets you use everything "meh whatever that works somehow" while pre-signals make you think about stuff 22:32:53 <V453000> speaking very generally 22:33:04 <Elukka> yes, so PBS are the best general signals particularly while learning the game 22:33:07 <SpComb> path signals are aweeesome 22:33:11 <Elukka> i think they should be treated as the 'basic' signal, rather than the actual basic signals 22:33:24 <V453000> I disagree, basically because of the reasons I said 22:34:03 <nat_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24299180/OTTD/Black%20%26%20Co.%2C%204th%20Feb%201957.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24299180/OTTD/Black%20%26%20Co.%2C%2012th%20Feb%201957.png 22:34:09 <nat_> my station layouts 22:34:11 <Elukka> most players never even play the game so far as to build networks where something like signal logic tracks are relevant 22:34:11 <V453000> and from my own experience I have seen, people are lazy. Once they start using PBS, they will keep it that way. But for playing "better" and making their networks really more interesting, pre-signals are a must. 22:34:16 <Elukka> it's not something to concern new players with 22:34:32 <V453000> signal logic tracks dont matter, ignore that :) 22:35:00 <SpComb> V453000: one defines "interesting" differently 22:35:10 <nat_> in theoy these stations should be scalable, and trains should be able to drive past them without stoping 22:35:17 <nat_> but in practice my signals fuck me over all the time 22:35:19 <Elukka> saying 'well there are these easy signals and they work well but you shouldn't use them because then you'll be a bad player' seems like a good way to turn off new players from learning the game 22:35:25 <SpComb> at least for me, "interesting" means "it grew organically to become this", and Path signals really help with that 22:35:29 <V453000> for sure, I define it as interesting = having some idea in it, which putting PBS definitely doesnt have 22:35:46 <SpComb> nat_: what are those signals, combo presignals? 22:35:52 <nat_> Yes 22:36:00 <V453000> no, entry signals 22:36:08 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:08 <nat_> is there a good way to have more than one line feed into and out of a station with this method? 22:36:15 <SpComb> why :/ 22:36:19 <nat_> entry, exit, and combo signals. 22:36:33 <SpComb> you've got weird signal layouts there 22:36:44 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 22:36:51 <nat_> because I like big networks that you could in theory travel between branches if you ever needed to (you won't) 22:37:16 <SpComb> change them to path signals and remove half of them, and it'll probably flow better :) 22:37:24 <Elukka> path signals are very forgiving in that you can have rails cross other rails as you like and it'll work 22:37:30 <nat_> how do I AI proof this? 22:37:31 <Elukka> it might slow things down, but it'll work 22:37:47 <SpComb> V453000: plus, path signals let you do stuff like bidirectional track/platforms that aren't possible otherwise 22:37:52 <SpComb> V453000: way more flexible 22:38:07 <V453000> it is hard to explain 22:38:20 <Elukka> in a discussion about basic signaling, presignals are irrelevant these days 22:38:21 <nat_> where would i place them? 22:38:23 <V453000> but to be simple, I say PBS lets you do more stuff with less brain power 22:38:35 <SpComb> fine with me, I don't play to signal 22:38:43 <Elukka> yes and you don't want to bother new players with complex systems that aren't necessary at their stage of the game 22:38:52 <SpComb> nat_: at entrances to junctions, and exits from stations 22:39:03 <V453000> but that is the thing :) new players wont bother 22:39:06 <V453000> will they bother later?: ) 22:39:11 <Elukka> they might 22:39:14 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23720 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Fix/Feature [FS#4935]: show the script debug window also when the game script crashes 22:39:15 <nat_> any other places? 22:39:19 <SpComb> nat_: and remove the ones between the tracks and the station 22:39:21 <SpComb> nat_: nope 22:39:21 <V453000> in the past when there was no PBS, you had to learn signals and it made you think 22:39:26 <Elukka> or they might not play the game at all if they get the idea that it takes a lot of boring reading of wikis to learn 4 types of signal 22:39:26 * Mazur learned signals first thing. 22:39:29 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 22:39:30 <Elukka> this is not a thing that is appealing to most people 22:39:50 <V453000> openttd isnt for "most people" anyway 22:39:52 <SpComb> nat_: you can also have the station be bidirectional if you just place exiting path signals on both ends 22:40:09 <V453000> also, why would you read a stupid wiki for signals, it is all written in the signal gui 22:40:11 <SpComb> nat_: and then straighten out the tracks to get rid of all those extra curves around 22:40:46 <Elukka> okay, look 22:41:14 <Elukka> there are super enthusiasts like you (maybe even me) who learn every facet of all five types of signal 22:41:24 <nat_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24299180/OTTD/Black%20%26%20Co.%2C%206th%20Dec%201956.png like this? 22:41:27 <Elukka> most players, however, don't care, and they particularly don't care when they're concerned with learning the basics of the game 22:41:41 <V453000> that isnt the point Elukka 22:41:48 <SpComb> nat_: the NE-track is right, the SW track wrong 22:41:50 <Elukka> if they become enthusiasts and play hundreds of hours they can learn it on their own accord 22:42:11 * Rubidium wonders what those people are that know every facet of all six signal types ;) 22:42:12 <SpComb> nat_: by "junction" I mean "track tile leading to tile with more than one track on it" 22:42:25 <nat_> oh no a train just got stuck 22:42:39 <nat_> entering from NE, it wont enter at all 22:42:47 <nat_> just stops and stares at the signal 22:42:52 <SpComb> nat_: so just move the signal on the northern track to the other side of the junction 22:42:53 <Rubidium> SpComb: bad definition ;) 22:43:28 <nat_> it 22:43:30 <V453000> besides, I would say PBS is much less intentional for a new player, but that might be just a subjective opinion 22:43:32 <SpComb> nat_: and add normal-not-one-way path signals to both ends of the station, leading out from the station 22:43:55 <Rubidium> parallel diagonal tracks have tiles with two tracks on it, but they would never conflict in any way 22:44:22 <SpComb> nat_: oh wait, uh, the north and south signal are right, the east and west ones wrong 22:44:29 <nat_> hmm? 22:44:43 <Elukka> frankly, the attitude that new users must learn everything optimally to start using the program plagues a lot of open source development, and simply means most people do not wish to use those programs 22:44:44 <nat_> I changed it to non one way and it still wont work 22:44:54 <nat_> Elukka^ 22:44:55 <Elukka> it's very user-unfriendly 22:44:56 <SpComb> the train has to have somewhere to go 22:45:10 <nat_> it does 22:45:11 <SpComb> if you don't have signals on the station, it might not be able to do that 22:46:05 <SpComb> e.g. train coming from north won't be able to reserve itself a path through the station 22:46:09 <SpComb> since it would cross itself 22:46:23 <SpComb> you need signals on the station 22:46:46 <SpComb> train stops at station -> signal right after station 22:46:52 <nat_> oh now it seems to work 22:47:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:47:17 <Rubidium> Elukka: with path signals 'optimal' usually means 'right' 22:47:53 <Elukka> if i'm teaching someone the game, as i have to a few friends of mine, i tell them the one basic rule of placing path signals and off they go building rail networks 22:47:54 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-26-113-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:48:04 <SpComb> train stops before junction -> signal right before junction 22:48:14 <Elukka> it doesn't matter if it's optimal, it just has to work 22:48:28 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: Sla Mutant Co-Op for Renegade - coming back soon] 22:48:55 <SpComb> I played with pre-signals in TTDPatch before OpenTTD even existed, and I don't need them anymore now with OpenTTD's real path signals :) 22:49:12 <SpComb> for anything 22:49:13 *** FLHerne [~francis@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:49:53 <SpComb> although TTDPatch's rule-based signals were kind of neat 22:50:40 <Elukka> the way i'd do it is rename 'path signal' to 'signal', give it a prominent button, and place the rest under the header 'advanced signals' 22:50:46 <Elukka> rename the current 'signal' to 'block signal' maybe 22:51:20 <Rubidium> the path signal is already the default signal 22:51:28 <Rubidium> so click on the signal and build the thing 22:51:31 <Elukka> won't lose any utility for hardcore players, more user friendly for newbies 22:51:33 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:51:34 <Elukka> true, and that's good 22:51:51 <Elukka> we still get a lot of people coming here with signal questions and often the answer is 'use path signals', which they might not even have noticed exist 22:51:55 <Elukka> or they think they're an advanced, complex thing 22:52:06 <Elukka> which they don't want to touch because they think it's for advanced players 22:52:22 <Rubidium> most of the time they're just long time players 22:52:29 <Rubidium> or got openttd + configuration file from someone else 22:53:01 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23721 /trunk/src/newgrf_house.cpp: -Fix (r23070): reading memory of a temporary (already deconstructed) object is invalid 22:53:02 <SpComb> nat_: what does it look like now? 22:53:36 <nat_> Just put normal signals on the entrance and exit to the platforms 22:53:40 <nat_> works fine now 22:53:44 <nat_> gotta go to work now though 22:53:54 <nat_> damn buses 22:53:58 *** nat_ [~chatzilla@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]] 22:54:06 <SpComb> mixing path and block signals? 22:54:07 <SpComb> uh oh 22:59:54 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 23:03:45 <__ln__> are there any national parks or such between or near New York and Toronto? (besides Niagara Falls) 23:04:25 <Eddi|zuHause> how many do you need? 23:04:42 <__ln__> one would be a start 23:05:37 <Eddi|zuHause> http://usparks.about.com/od/travelitineraries/l/blNew-York-National-Parks.htm <- ? 23:07:23 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 23:08:03 <__ln__> cool, that's a start 23:08:26 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: which type of era I log wagon would be good to start with? 23:09:16 *** [1]Mark [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 23:09:17 *** Mark is now known as Guest22511 23:09:17 *** [1]Mark is now known as Mark 23:09:29 <Elukka> http://www.hs-merseburg.de/~nosske/EpocheII/fg/e2f_g105.gif 23:09:44 <Elukka> this is what comes to mind, but i don't know how it'd work in game or if it's a 'typical' one 23:09:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i think this one needs some special template magic 23:10:20 <Eddi|zuHause> because the pairs should look like single wagons without load, and as one wagon with load 23:10:32 <Elukka> yeah 23:10:42 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause> but yes, that's about what it should look like 23:11:13 <Elukka> gonna have to guess the length unless you know figures 23:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> the stakes would be removed if refitted for wood (logs) transport 23:11:19 <Elukka> interesting 23:11:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the length is in the tracking table 23:11:27 <Elukka> well that's the easiest sprite to draw then :P 23:11:29 <Elukka> what's it called there? 23:11:41 <Eddi|zuHause> "Langholzwagen" or something 23:11:55 <Elukka> alright 23:12:14 <Elukka> want me to do the individual wagons (apparently they were used on their own too) on separate templates or do something weird and put them on a single one? 23:12:23 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tecmumas.de/images/suchebiete/trix_langholzwagen.jpg <-- that's what it looks like empty, without stakes 23:12:38 <Elukka> what's that thing in the middle? 23:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause> do single wagons 23:12:39 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 23:13:00 <Eddi|zuHause> that's some thing that keeps the logs rotatable around the axis 23:13:07 <Elukka> ooh 23:14:00 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc2302.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:12 *** JVassie [~James@2.30.129.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:16:09 <Eddi|zuHause> http://cache-cdn.kalaydo.de/mmo/7/254/937/97_1864689298.jpg <-- looks somewhat like this when loaded 23:20:07 *** FLHerne [~francis@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:20:16 <Elukka> i remember seeing these in mÀrklin and fleischmann catalogs as a kid :P 23:21:28 <Eddi|zuHause> basically each wagon works like a bogie underneath the logs 23:21:53 <Elukka> oh yeah, this is how i remember seeing them 23:21:54 <Elukka> http://voll-dampf.de/galerienwe/hsb_langholzwagen.jpg 23:22:13 <Eddi|zuHause> if not refitted to logs, they could be used like normal stake wagons 23:24:16 *** BUTTMUNCH [no.dongs@dhcp-077-251-045-037.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 23:25:34 <Elukka> were the really short ones used as normal stake wagons too? 23:25:59 <Elukka> hm. possibly not 23:26:19 <Elukka> "Whereas Prussia held onto its short swivelling bolster cars for a long time, other railway administrations were quick to acquire longer vehicles. Bavaria put cars of class 337 into service as early as 1883, which had a wheelbase of 3650 mm. The advantage of these was that the cars could also be used individually. The DRG therefore added them all to its stock as Hw 'Regensburg'." 23:26:49 <Elukka> i think the longer one will be better to draw first since it has more uses 23:27:00 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:27:36 <Elukka> http://www.brawa.de/typo3temp/pics/47712-langholzwagen-kbaystseb_aa1874ef21.jpg 23:27:38 <Elukka> something like that 23:28:28 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-26-113-18.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:22 *** iddqd [no.dongs@dhcp-077-251-045-037.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:35:55 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 23:39:28 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:39:35 *** DDR_ is now known as DDR 23:42:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1931C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's about what i thought 23:43:46 <Eddi|zuHause> but iirc we have 3 generations to play with :) 23:50:43 *** TdlQ_ [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:54:28 *** MagisterQuis1 [~Adium@c-69-251-184-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:58:33 *** astol [~Adium@188.134.65.81] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]