Log for #openttd on 5th January 2012:
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01:02:31  <FLHerne> Very quiet on here
01:02:59  * encoded hacks openttd so you can stop planes
01:03:11  <encoded> *crash*
01:03:19  <FLHerne> Why would you want to?
01:03:22  <BUTTMUNCH> LOL
01:03:24  <BUTTMUNCH> that would be so funny
01:03:29  <encoded> to make noise!
01:04:17  <encoded> i bribed this local authority twice and they still hate me
01:04:55  <BUTTMUNCH> i forgot to add a city to my plane routes
01:05:03  <BUTTMUNCH> now it’s a pain in the ass to get them back to liking me again
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01:07:54  <FLHerne> Openbox crashes every time I start OpenTTD :-(
01:08:15  <BUTTMUNCH> im having a hard time transporting most of the people in the city
01:08:22  <BUTTMUNCH> it says like 1200 of 8000
01:08:52  <Elukka> more vehicles more better
01:09:12  <BUTTMUNCH> hmm alright
01:09:42  <Elukka> technically you need to always have a vehicle loading to get 100%, but i only do that with cargo
01:09:57  <Elukka> passenger stations hover at like 70-80% or something
01:10:11  <FLHerne> Advertising might help, too
01:10:37  <BUTTMUNCH> ymeah
01:10:50  <BUTTMUNCH> i’ll start adding more bus stations transporting people to airplanes
01:17:46  <BUTTMUNCH> is there a console command to transfer money to a player in mp?
01:17:49  <BUTTMUNCH> clicking is annoying
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01:26:21  <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: okay, there's one thing i'm confused about with CETS. are the 45 deg and intermediate views also supposed to be shortened by 1 px in each direction (for buffers/gangways) like the sidew view, or not?
01:26:48  <Elukka> *side view
01:27:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say yes
01:27:31  <Elukka> that's how i've been doing them but i looked at some of oberhÃŒmer's sprites and he doesn't seem to
01:28:34  <Eddi|zuHause> the ET 85 looks a bit odd in / view
01:28:44  <Eddi|zuHause> so i'd rather say he's wrong
01:30:03  <Elukka> alright
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01:30:18  <Elukka> hey, do the langholzwagen retain that thingy in the middle for holding the logs when they're used as normal stake wagons?
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01:31:05  <Eddi|zuHause> probably yes, but rotated lengthwise
01:38:13  <BUTTMUNCH> is there a way to legally remove a town?
01:42:02  <BUTTMUNCH> sheit
01:42:04  <BUTTMUNCH> caught bribing
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01:43:10  <Eddi|zuHause> towns cannot be removed
01:43:24  <BUTTMUNCH> what if I destroy every building and road
01:43:47  <Eddi|zuHause> then you have a 0 population town, which may or may not grow back
01:43:57  <BUTTMUNCH> sucks ;C
01:44:33  <BUTTMUNCH> cuz only now i understand how the town placing works
01:45:40  <encoded> what happens when you get caught bribing?
01:45:50  <BUTTMUNCH> you can’t do anything in that city anymore
01:45:53  <BUTTMUNCH> i think
01:45:56  <BUTTMUNCH> all actions are gone
01:52:11  <Elukka> for a time
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01:53:45  <Elukka> eddi... the logs will be weird. they'll be bendy
01:53:51  <Elukka> can it somehow be treated as one vehicle when logs are involved?
01:54:22  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but i'm not quite sure how yet
01:54:36  <Eddi|zuHause> draw the loaded pair as one long wagon, though
01:54:56  <Elukka> alright
01:55:01  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly with some turning involved
01:55:21  <Eddi|zuHause> so in the slightly slanted views, make one bogey turned
01:55:39  <Elukka> hmm
01:57:12  <Elukka> i'm not sure it'd be noticeable on this wagon, since this is the longer type that is coupled as normal to each other, but seems like a good idea for the smaller ones with a lot of empty space in between
01:57:21  <Elukka> i have a hard idea picturing just how to draw it, though
01:57:27  <Elukka> err, hard time
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02:00:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm imagining like this: take the - view as 0, the \ view as 3, and the in-between ones as 1 and 2. in the 1 view, copy the front wagon from the 2 view, and the back wagon from the 0 view, draw the wood according to the 1 template
02:00:40  <Eddi|zuHause> in the 2 view, take the front wagon from 3 and the back wagon from 1, and draw the wood like 2
02:01:07  <Eddi|zuHause> etc.
02:01:28  <Eddi|zuHause> the 0 and 3 view are straight, like normal
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02:06:47  <Elukka> hmm
02:08:16  <Elukka> sounds sensible
02:12:10  <Elukka> i suppose i should draw a sprite with processed lumber too
02:12:36  <Eddi|zuHause> possible
02:21:25  <BUTTMUNCH> if cities are happier with you, do towns gro faster?
02:23:31  <Elukka> nah
02:37:56  <Elukka>
02:38:09  <Elukka> this is an odd sprite... i'd like to see it in game before i start doing all the variants to see if there are issues
02:44:15  <Elukka> in the meantime, i found some nice references for prussian stake/low side wagons in this year's fleischmann catalog so i guess i'll do those
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02:54:29  <BUTTMUNCH> lol funding towns in multiplayer is insane
02:58:05  <Wolf01> 'night
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04:55:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: why is it length 4? i see only 3 and 5 in the tracking table
04:57:36  <Elukka> if i remember right... the length 5 one is era II, and i figured i should do an era I wagon, and i figured the longer one would be more useful to do first since it can function as a normal stake wagon
04:57:41  <Elukka> i didn't realize it wasn't on the tracking table
04:57:59  <Elukka> it's based on the bavarian wagon, i understand only the prussians kept the short (length 3) ones around for very long
04:59:56  <encoded> openttd needs highways
05:00:02  <Eddi|zuHause> you have length source?
05:00:08  <encoded> or atleast multi lane roads
05:01:04  <Elukka>
05:01:10  <Elukka> the 'info about the original' tab talks about the length of the real wagons
05:01:18  <Elukka> well, the wheelbase
05:01:37  <Eddi|zuHause> wheelbase != length
05:02:07  <encoded> and a federal goverment to build them
05:02:38  <Elukka> yeah, i know
05:03:10  <Elukka> the length is based on the length of the model which jives with the real vehicle's wheelbase visually
05:03:59  <Elukka> the big difference to the shorter ones is they seem to be coupled to each other conventionally, not by a long drawbar
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05:05:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i noted 9300mm for the second Ep I wagon, and 9450mm for the Ep II one
05:05:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i'll put 8999 for now, that'll round down to length 4
05:06:01  <Eddi|zuHause> may be better this way
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05:08:37  <Elukka> one of the bavarian wagons according to the model's dimensions is 8465 mm
05:12:17  <Elukka> out of curiosity, what exactly do the goods wagons class districts mean?
05:12:25  <Elukka> does it have something to do with where they were originally used, build, or what?
05:17:03  <Eddi|zuHause> no, they're just randomly chosen city names, to group similar wagon types
05:18:10  <Elukka> i see
05:18:32  <Elukka> well, it's more descriptive than Ghmglls 37 or something
05:27:42  <Eddi|zuHause> so, pushed now, grf should be available shortly
05:29:26  <Elukka> cool
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05:35:22  <Elukka> hmm.
05:36:25  <Elukka> high capacity hopper cars for coal and ore transport appeared some time in the 20's, but smaller, conventional high side wagons were used for the same purpose for a long time
05:36:39  <Elukka> i dunno if there can be any gameplay use for the latter once the hoppers appear
05:36:56  <Elukka> dbset handles it by simply not having any of the early high capacity hoppers
05:37:30  <Eddi|zuHause> you worry about the drawing, i worry about the gameplay :)
05:37:39  <Elukka> heh
05:38:33  <Eddi|zuHause> the hoppers may not be refitable to all cargos the open wagons are
05:40:41  <Elukka> there's another such oddity in dbset: streamlined br06's all over because they're simply the best passenger locomotive for a long time
05:41:01  <Elukka> some factors just don't translate to game terms
05:41:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i rarely use it, actually
05:42:42  <Elukka> i think rare or unique vehicles like it should have some downside in game
05:43:09  <Elukka> heh. i remember in railroad tycoon 2 the pennsylvania GG1 obsoleted everything else for a very long time
05:44:50  <Elukka> hm. i should try drawing a locomotive for a change some time
05:45:11  <Elukka> though i guess oberhÃŒmer's got most of that covered
05:47:37  <Eddi|zuHause> we're not running out of engines to draw anytime soon :p
05:49:36  <Elukka> yeah, but we already have a playable set of era I engines but wagons are extremely lacking
05:49:40  <Elukka> (because i'm lazy)
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06:14:13  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23753 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix [FS#4952]: use plurals for the infrastructure stats
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12:52:36  <TrueBrain> sstttt
12:57:30  <murr4y> breakdown?
13:04:42  <TrueBrain> I was sick of the pages of purple text in my window :P
13:14:10  <Rubidium> what purple? It's all green ;)
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13:15:13  <__ln__> you're confusing green with cyan
13:15:44  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I dunno why you would be watching in my window, but I also wonder why you think it would be green :D
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13:17:42  <Wolf01> hello o/
13:17:48  <TrueBrain> hello mister Wolf01
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13:23:06  <TrueBrain> indexed RGBA .. now that would be mindblowing :D
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13:53:32  <BUTTMUNCH> what is an average end game income?
13:54:55  <Aali> positive infinity
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13:57:05  <BUTTMUNCH> im now making my own airports with funded towns around them
13:57:51  <frosch123> BUTTMUNCH: about factor 10 to 20 between train income and train running cost
13:58:04  <frosch123> the rest matters on map size, industry count etc
13:58:11  <frosch123> and inflation of course :)
13:59:00  <frosch123> hmm, actually factor 10 to 20 only holds if you use only normal rail vehicles (no maglev etc) and no insane train lengths (> 10 tiles)
13:59:29  <BUTTMUNCH> how does that work anyway
13:59:34  <BUTTMUNCH> stations can’t be longer than 7 tiles
13:59:36  <BUTTMUNCH> atleast I tried
13:59:40  <BUTTMUNCH> i set trains to 14 long
13:59:48  <BUTTMUNCH> but i can’t build stations longer than that
13:59:49  <frosch123> you can make stations up to 64x64
13:59:54  <BUTTMUNCH> hrm
14:00:02  <BUTTMUNCH> how would iachieve this?
14:00:19  <frosch123> there are a lot of poor kids who play on complete flat maps, build 64 lines in parallel to run 32 trains on them or so
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14:00:38  <frosch123> go to advanced settings, increse max station spread to 64, and use drag&drop to build the station
14:00:43  <frosch123> resp. build it from multiple parts
14:01:27  <BUTTMUNCH> i flattened a piece of land and made my own place
14:02:51  <BUTTMUNCH> look at this bad boy
14:02:55  <BUTTMUNCH> rofl
14:03:48  <BUTTMUNCH> i have 2 of those one in left bottom corner, other one in top right corner
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14:59:47  * Hirundo ponders changing static grfs during the game
15:00:27  <Hirundo> It'd make most sense if changes would affect both new games and the current game
15:02:42  <frosch123> same as basesets :)
15:02:53  <frosch123> except you cannot change basesets inside game either
15:03:06  <frosch123> you have to go back to main menu first
15:04:15  <Hirundo> Currently you can edit (assuming you have the required privileges) static newgrfs already in-game
15:04:35  <Hirundo> Removing that capability would make no sense
15:05:16  <frosch123> how do you do that?
15:05:26  <frosch123> reload config or something like that?
15:05:28  <Hirundo> Currently they are just in the same list
15:05:48  <Hirundo> You can edit static grfs in-game, but upon reloading changes are lost
15:05:56  <frosch123> you can remove them, but not add?
15:06:06  <Hirundo> And adding grfs as static is indeed not possible
15:06:07  <frosch123> resp. aren't the even added to the save when applying? :o
15:06:18  <Hirundo> All added grfs are non-static
15:06:42  <Hirundo> Simply because the GUI doesn't have the 'add as static' button (yet?)
15:07:14  <frosch123> displaying them in the same list has always been weird, since you can change the order, but it is not saved
15:07:43  <Hirundo> Indeed
15:07:51  <Hirundo> Perhaps I should file a bug report about it ;-)
15:08:29  <Hirundo> Basic issue is that _grfconfig_static contains a list of static grfs used for new games
15:08:36  <Hirundo> _grfconfig also contains static grfs during a game
15:08:38  <frosch123> personally i would put static grf configuration into the game options, next to the basesets
15:08:43  <Hirundo> but these lists may or may not match
15:08:43  <frosch123> and not disaply them in the same list
15:09:07  <frosch123> afaik there is some STATIC flag in the grfconfig
15:09:14  <frosch123> if it is loaded as static
15:09:28  <Hirundo> Yes indeed
15:09:29  <frosch123> so they could be filtered from the list in the gui
15:09:48  <frosch123> (would be my fix to the bug report ^^ :p)
15:10:05  <Hirundo> If a grf is loaded as static and non-static, the static grf is removed
15:10:46  <Hirundo> so saving the list of static grfs in a game back to _grfconfig_static has problems
15:11:14  <frosch123> well, you would have to edit _grfconfig_static directly
15:11:24  <Hirundo> on the other hand, showing the list in _grfconfig_static during a game doesn't allow any errors to be displayed
15:11:25  <frosch123> no matter whether some of them are removed
15:11:35  <frosch123> (removed from the game, not from _grfconfig_static)
15:12:02  <frosch123> hmm... errors
15:12:04  <Hirundo> If an error occurs when loading a static grf, you'd want to show that
15:12:22  <frosch123> ideally they should also display an error if they were removed for some reason
15:13:43  <Hirundo> so perhaps, double grfs should get some other treatment instead of removing them
15:14:52  <Hirundo> i.e. setting some flag that causes them to not be processed during grf loading
15:17:43  <Remi_Woler> is it expected behavior that in the "almost current" trunk (nightly from 3 days ago), you can no longer see the signs from opponents?
15:18:08  <Remi_Woler> Not in the list, nor in the world
15:18:13  <frosch123> there is a setting to hide them
15:18:37  <frosch123> no idea about the default :)
15:18:44  <Remi_Woler> found it, under transparency. That's new, I think
15:18:47  <Remi_Woler> thanks :)
15:18:50  <TrueBrain> seens by the reports, I would say default is off frosch123 ;)
15:19:13  <frosch123> maybe :p and yes, it is new in 1.2
15:20:12  <Remi_Woler> I *just* taught my human competitor to place a sign if a train "won't move" again, and then the signs get hidden :P
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15:32:42  <Ammler> hmm, a little bit windy here
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16:40:11  <Elukka> interesting. in newer nightlies (possibly ever since EZ), the 32 bit simple blitter is a lot slower when zooming or scrolling around the map
16:40:43  <Elukka> i had it on because i had messed around with 32 bit stuff at some point and it didn't make a difference in normal play so i couldn't be bothered to turn it off, but now it sure does
16:41:28  <Eddi|zuHause> use optimized or animated
16:42:11  <Rubidium> simple has never been fast, nor will it ever be fast
16:42:38  <Rubidium> it's basically the most trivial implementation
16:43:54  <Elukka> i see
16:44:29  <Elukka> eddi, the new express wagons have the same issue as the compartment coaches where in the - view they have a 2 px gap rather than 1
16:45:28  <Eddi|zuHause> right... i wanted to investigate that
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16:48:48  <Elukka> hmm. the langholzwagen could maybe use a slight gap on the diagonals
16:49:16  <welshdragon> Good Afternoon/Evening/Morning All
16:52:45  <welshdragon> perhaps a slightly repetitive question (one I have asked before I think) but can saves from a patched build of OpenTTD be hacked into another patched version (say from IS2.1.1 to Chill's)?
16:53:14  <welshdragon> else I'm going to have a lot of repetition on my hands...
16:53:28  <Rubidium> welshdragon: I see no reason why they can't be
16:54:06  <Rubidium> assuming *YOU* come up with the logic for handing that properly
16:54:24  <welshdragon> I get 'unexpexted end of chunk' at the moment
16:55:05  <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: you need to add a lot of magic in settings.ini and afterload.cpp
16:55:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: i think i spotted the error, care to test?
16:55:57  <Elukka> sure
16:57:16  <welshdragon> 'chunks' is kind of a weird term to use for a file :p
16:57:35  <welshdragon> unless 'm making a mistake eher
16:58:01  <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: a riff file is made of chunks
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17:08:50  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23754 /trunk/src/network/network_udp.cpp: -Fix (r23752): the locks aren't reentrant
17:09:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: binary now available at the devzone
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17:40:06  <Elukka> looks right to me now
17:41:37  <Eddi|zuHause> great
17:41:41  <Elukka> various combinations draw correctly too
17:43:25  <Elukka> i wonder if there'd be some way to improve the looks of the wheels on steam locomotives
17:43:30  <Elukka> they look kinda odd to me currently
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17:46:56  <Elukka> specifically the light grey
17:47:34  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i'm not really convinced about those either
17:47:47  <Eddi|zuHause> especially in / and \ view
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18:18:37  <Elukka>
18:19:40  <Wolf01> nice, but looks derailed
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18:22:14  <Eddi|zuHause> no wonder when there's a corner in the rails...
18:22:55  <michi_cc> Elukka: In my personal, totally subjective view I like it better when the carriages are visually more distinct. In the - view this is quite well done, bit IMHO the diagonal view could have a little more contrast there.
18:23:03  <Wolf01> so bend the rails too ;)
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18:26:13  <Terkhen> hello
18:27:17  <Wolf01> hello Terkhen
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18:29:02  <Elukka> bending the rails too is some kind of holy grail, isn't it :P
18:30:47  <Elukka> i did have some contrast issues, and i made the windows on the diagonal brighter than they 'should' be, but i'm not sure what more to do
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18:31:05  <Elukka> one possibility is making everything a notch brighter than they ought to be, which dbset and probably others do
18:31:08  <Elukka> that way you have more colors
18:31:25  <Elukka> that don't contrast each other too much
18:31:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: he means something that distinguishes one wagon from the other, like making the ends darker
18:31:54  <Elukka> hmm
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18:35:10  <Elukka> well, that'd involve either making them black (same color as the gangways which are pretty narrow) or actually brighter
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18:35:57  <Elukka> a darker green would just blend them in more
18:36:18  <Eddi|zuHause> just the end sections, not the sides
18:38:57  <Elukka> yeah i was talking about them
18:40:41  <Elukka> darker would make the ends either practically the same color and the sides, or near black (no green darker than that)
18:46:17  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23755 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
18:46:17  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:17  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: croatian - 3 changes by VoyagerOne
18:46:17  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: english_US - 5 changes by Rubidium
18:46:17  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: finnish - 5 changes by jpx_
18:46:19  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 32 changes by Devastator
18:46:19  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 8 changes by eloekset
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18:57:46  <Zuu> Doh, tried to max out the non-custom settings that affect number of towns just to figure out that I had by mistake made a 2048x1024 and not a 2048x2048 map. So I had to re-run my test again. But now while writing this, it finished after some 29510 ticks :-)
18:58:53  <Remi_Woler> Zuu: purely out of curiousity: how do you test it? Like with what technology?
18:59:41  <Zuu> I record the result from GSController.GetTick() before setup start and then when setup is done. Print the difference.
18:59:48  <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: make sure your town name generator has enough names
19:00:10  <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause: Does that limit the amount of towns created?
19:00:15  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
19:00:29  <Eddi|zuHause> if it runs out of names, no further towns will get generated
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19:01:59  <Zuu> Hmm, I think I got about 400 towns or so.
19:02:22  <Zuu> No idea how to see the town amount other than dividing the world population with the estimated average.
19:02:38  <Zuu> or by making an AI/GS output it.
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19:12:47  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that's really a "missing feature" on the town list
19:13:08  <Eddi|zuHause> but you can easily get like 3000 towns
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19:16:52  <welshdragon> So, can I debug saves?
19:17:44  <Yexo> please ask your real question
19:20:04  <welshdragon> I want to find out where OpenTTD doesn't like the chunk size, Having defaulted the save back to vanilla settings it still complains about 'unexpected end of chunk'
19:20:11  <welshdragon> which is why I want to debug
19:24:47  <Alberth> set a breakpoint at the line that reports the error?
19:26:16  <Rubidium> -dsdl=9 and see the chunks being loaded
19:26:17  <Alberth> there seems to be a 'sl' debug setting as well (openttd -d sl=9)
19:26:58  <TrueBrain> sdl? Guess that is a typo?
19:28:10  <Rubidium> yeah, I like making typos
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19:28:19  <TrueBrain> I like making pies!
19:28:47  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23756 /trunk/src/lang/norwegian_nynorsk.txt: -Fix (r23755): ... and WT3 likes some strings that strgen doesn't like ;)
19:31:18  <welshdragon> where is Build While Paused hidden?
19:32:29  <welshdragon> i'm using the latest version of Chill's PP hca7f5804
19:32:53  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23757 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Unify the drawing of toggle buttons for boolean settings.
19:34:30  * frosch123 notes that tb will make the r30k pie
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19:40:32  <Alberth> welshdragon:
19:40:35  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23758 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp rail.cpp rail.h rail_cmd.cpp table/railtypes.h): -Feature: [NewGRF] Alternate rail type label list.
19:41:17  <welshdragon> Alberth: thanks, found it, it's changed since the IS2.1.1 version I've been playing :P
19:41:45  <welshdragon> i gave up tryin to make the saves compatible
19:41:46  <Alberth> welshdragon: the concept has not changed as far as I know :p
19:42:11  <welshdragon> Alberth: but the selection for the setting has :P
19:42:27  <Alberth> yeah, we made it less hidden ;)
19:43:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: hidden in plain sight :p
19:44:08  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: often a very good place :)
19:44:50  <Alberth> as demonstrated a few moments ago :p
19:50:55  * Zuu just got the evil idea of adding the consequence that congested towns get road works :-)
19:53:32  <Zuu> just stop town growth is not that evil after all :-)
19:55:19  <Alberth> just play tropical or arctic climate :)
19:55:50  <Zuu> Alberth: did you see my latest GameScript relaese just minutes ago?
19:56:12  <Alberth> I have not seen any gamescript yet :D
19:56:25  <Zuu> <--- Makes towns stop grow if they are congested
19:56:49  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r23759 /trunk/src/townname.cpp: -Fix (r17612)[FS#4951]: the check for duplicate town names wasn't really working
19:58:07  <Alberth> interesting, how do you measure congestion?
19:58:53  <Terkhen> interesting indeed :)
19:59:12  <Eddi|zuHause> great... so now i have a dependency-chain in the tracking table, but how do i sensibly use it (in term of translating it into model life/early retire)
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20:01:53  <Zuu> Congestion is measured as [vehicles / squares]
20:02:30  <Eddi|zuHause> road works sounds nice :)
20:03:16  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23760 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 5 dirs): -Feature: Allow readonly display of NewGRF parameters, if GRF list may not be edited.
20:03:17  <Eddi|zuHause> but that may backfire... some "stupid" AIs take congestion as a reason to build even more vehicles
20:03:23  <Zuu> Maybe if you don't resolve the situation within some time, the town start road works.
20:04:12  <Zuu> Yes, several AIs does probably not listen for the road works event for example.
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20:15:55  <andythenorth> efening
20:22:07  <Alberth> o/
20:24:44  <Eddi|zuHause> geening
20:27:00  <__ln__> are there any starfleet ranks between captain and admiral?
20:28:10  <Alberth> the internets does not know ??  :O
20:30:45  <andythenorth> __ln__: try #trek :P
20:30:53  <__ln__> Alberth: i'm trying the internets, using the internet relay chat protocol search engine.
20:32:06  <__ln__> besides that's the kind of piece of trivia i'd assume at least someone to know by heart :)
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20:37:10  <Eddi|zuHause> trivia: english and french people know "by heart", while german people know "by head" :)
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20:37:39  <Eddi|zuHause> (occasionally germans also know "by hat" :))
20:38:33  <andythenorth> should FIRS have a parameter for primary production amounts?
20:38:57  <Eddi|zuHause> low/medium/high? perhaps...
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20:46:46  <Elukka> don't see why not
20:47:05  <Elukka> it'd be a nice option
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21:05:23  <appe_>
21:06:26  <Terkhen> another one of those 128MB flash drives modified to write bigger sizes in a loop?
21:08:51  <Elukka> andy, if you add that i'd like to try a game with high production but few industries
21:09:04  <Elukka> mainly because i like the aesthetics of longer trains
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21:09:30  <Eddi|zuHause> kate gets _really_ slow when opening more than 100 files
21:11:44  <Hirundo> Is it possible to copy a GRFConfig, without copying the status, flags and other stuff that changes during grf loading?
21:12:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Hirundo: you mean like writing a preset?
21:13:17  <Hirundo> Not exactly, presets are just written to the ini file
21:13:53  <Hirundo> Currently, upon starting a new game, the newgame (normal / static) GRFConfigs are copied
21:14:48  <Hirundo> I'd like to apply changes made to the static in-game grf config apply to the static newgame config as well
21:15:17  <Hirundo> But plain copying copies all kind of unwanted status info
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21:32:30  <Terkhen> oooh, XCOM remake
21:33:11  <TWerkhoven[l]> another one?
21:33:30  <frosch123> shall we add some disaster to ottd to advertise it?
21:33:50  <TWerkhoven[l]> or one thats actually a remake of the original as opposed to a new game that replays the original story?
21:34:51  <frosch123> hmm, some gs should trigger a news message in 2004: "ottd released" :p
21:34:55  <Terkhen> I don't know :P
21:35:08  <Terkhen> but it is looking good, if it was like the others I wouldn't even mention it
21:35:25  <TWerkhoven[l]> link?
21:35:35  <Eddi|zuHause> civ IV had an event "civ released" where you could earn money or increase university output
21:35:43  <Terkhen>
21:36:17  <Terkhen> yes, FFH2 changes that event into a "fantasy game called civilization" :P
21:36:59  <Elukka> i loved the hell out of FFH2
21:37:26  <Alberth> frosch123: I liked the land slide disaster :)
21:37:40  <Elukka> "Set consists of 3 models of the class 03 express locomotive with tender. One each model in a version with the locomotive and tender body made of solid 18 carat gold, sterling silver, and solid bronze. 3 cut diamonds shine as triple headlights on each locomotive. 3 rubies serve to represent the marker lights on each tender. The locomotives are fully functional and are equipped with a 5-pole
21:37:41  <Elukka> motor."
21:37:45  <Elukka> unrelated, but hilarious z scale bling
21:37:56  <Terkhen> Elukka: I discovered it recently, it has been sucking most of my free time lately :P
21:38:07  <Elukka> i've been feeling like playing it again
21:38:19  <frosch123> Alberth: is that like earthquake? clear every second tile on the map?
21:38:37  <SmatZ> top
21:38:40  <Elukka> i like historical games, but never really liked vanilla civ4 much. somehow the fantasy world seems more believable than the aztecs assaulting the united states with nukes for oil
21:38:57  <Terkhen> I play with / against my brother when I'm back home, it is really fun
21:39:11  <Elukka> i hope they do a mod for civ5
21:39:18  <TWerkhoven[l]> i preferred the advisors from civ2 (or was that 3)
21:39:22  <Elukka> i experimented with modding civ4 once
21:39:28  <Terkhen> nah, the guy who did FFH2 is working on commercial games now
21:39:32  <Elukka> aww
21:39:43  <Terkhen> also, from what I heard civ5 modding sucks
21:40:36  <Eddi|zuHause> civ5 suddenly stopped working for me...
21:40:38  <Rubidium> so does modding for openttd 5; the modding interface is not even documented ;)
21:40:41  <Elukka> i took an old and simple 3D model, gave it some textures (my first try at texturing!) and jammed it into the game
21:40:42  <Elukka>
21:40:56  <Terkhen> OpenTTD is completely moddable, I have the source :P
21:41:07  <Rubidium> Terkhen: not of OpenTTD 5
21:41:07  <Alberth> frosch123:
21:41:10  <Terkhen> oh :(
21:41:17  <Terkhen> what does it add?
21:41:39  <Rubidium> it's still shrouded in mystery
21:41:48  <Alberth> everything you add to it!
21:41:53  <Eddi|zuHause> all existing source code of openttd 5 is available :p
21:42:21  <Elukka> civ4 was rather easier to mod than openttd :P
21:42:56  <Eddi|zuHause> that depends how far your mod wanted to go :)
21:42:58  <Terkhen> Elukka: I fixed a few annoying FFH2 bugs but coding civ4 mods is rather boring
21:43:20  <Elukka> well, it let you go pretty far with mods
21:43:21  <lugo> *9++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
21:43:22  <lugo> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
21:43:25  <lugo> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
21:43:27  <lugo> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
21:43:32  <lugo> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
21:43:34  <frosch123> @kban lugo
21:43:35  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!lugo@] by DorpsGek
21:43:35  *** lugo was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [frosch123]
21:43:46  <Terkhen> heh, that guy never says anything and now that
21:44:06  <Terkhen> Elukka: you can only modify a dll and python code, the "basics" are hidden
21:44:13  <frosch123> maybe he dropped something on his keyboard :p
21:44:26  <Terkhen> heh :P
21:44:37  <Rubidium> he definitely said stuff before
21:44:47  <Rubidium> even fairly recently-ish
21:44:51  <Elukka> yeah but that means modifying most of the game
21:44:57  <Terkhen> really? I did not notice :)
21:45:03  <Elukka> there's xml, dll and python modding
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21:45:33  <Terkhen> Elukka: yes, it is really confusing :P
21:45:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i never had a sufficent compiler for dll modding
21:45:38  <Rubidium> oh, you can mod OpenTTD with XMLs as well
21:45:56  <Rubidium> not very much... but still ;)
21:46:11  <Rubidium> (and only for certain platforms)
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21:46:38  <Eddi|zuHause> the most elaborate "modding" i did was extracting the german translation of alpha centauri
21:46:39  <Terkhen> urgh, please, no XML
21:46:59  * Terkhen has just started using XML at work and he already hates it
21:47:24  <__ln__> XML is the solution for everything!
21:47:30  <frosch123> ttdviewer can be modded using xml :)
21:47:36  <frosch123> it even has xsd validation
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21:47:43  <Terkhen> scary :O
21:47:44  * Alberth folds __ln__ into xml
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21:48:28  <frosch123> @unban *!lugo@
21:48:31  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!lugo@] by DorpsGek
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21:59:26  <appe_> i happend to do some elevation near a city
21:59:36  <appe_> and they no longer allow building near it
21:59:40  <appe_> how can i help it?
22:00:08  <frosch123> the terraforming does not matter
22:00:17  <frosch123> only the tree-killing which is involved with it
22:00:24  <frosch123> plant new trees, or bribe them :)
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22:03:24  <appe_> ah
22:03:33  <appe_> built a statue for nothing :,(
22:03:57  <frosch123> a statue is never for nothing :)
22:05:45  <Elukka> glah. i wish the toggle to turn off yacd for cargo worked
22:05:56  <Elukka> i hear it has less issues for passengers, and it probably wouldn't be half as cpu killing
22:06:42  <peter1138> pretty sure it works
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22:08:05  <Elukka> ...yeah, it might just not work with FIRS
22:08:11  <Elukka> i tested this but i don't remember the result :D
22:09:07  <peter1138> absolutely possitive it's unrelated to cargo sets
22:09:48  <Elukka> okay, some industries still say they have destinations, but it says 0 to 0 of the production should go there
22:09:52  <Elukka> others work normally
22:09:55  <Elukka> is that how it's supposed to be?
22:10:18  <Elukka> seems to be random whether they have destinations listed or not
22:12:32  <Pixa> I've found that if I change the setting to off part way through a game, industries I've already looked at have destinations with 0 of 0, whereas others don't
22:15:37  <Elukka> i started a new test game
22:15:44  <Elukka> does it still work right, though?
22:19:06  <Pixa> yeah
22:39:21  <Elukka> that's good
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22:44:54  <Terkhen> good night
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23:02:40  <Elukka>
23:02:52  <Elukka> i thought i'd have a lot of trouble making a decent stake wagon at openttd's resolution but i guess it's alright
23:04:45  <peter1138> 4x zoom!
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23:05:27  <Elukka> 3x actually, but that's a normal size sprite :P
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23:06:41  <Elukka> 1 click and the stakes are gone and it's a low side wagon
23:06:44  <Elukka> easiest 2 sprites ever
23:10:59  * Yexo wonders why people create caching mechanics if those makes things way slower
23:11:39  <Yexo> joomla/com_sh404sef module. Disable caching and page load time goes from 8-something to 0.7 seconds
23:12:11  <peter1138> bjarni-optimizations?
23:12:36  <Yexo> cache in plain text files, something like: "orig-url nice-url\n".....
23:12:48  <Yexo> after that using strpos to see if an url has a nice url attached to it
23:16:50  <Yexo> actually nvm, the cache file is a php file (with 3500 lines currently)
23:19:00  <Yexo> for some reason urls are compared using strpos, which resulted in 1.5M calls to strpos for one page load
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23:34:41  <frosch123> night
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23:50:06  <swissfan91> evening all..
23:51:35  <swissfan91> does anyone know how to calculate HorsePower (hp) from kN?
23:54:50  <MinchinWeb> "The most common definitions [of a horsepower is] equal between 735.5 and 750 watts."
23:55:25  <swissfan91> i was using this,
23:55:40  <swissfan91> but the values I was getting didn't match up.
23:56:17  <MinchinWeb> sure they do: 1hp = 0.7459999999980754 kW
23:56:28  <MinchinWeb> do you want kW or kN?
23:56:55  <swissfan91> sorry, kW. The websites that I find specs for trains, they give it in kW, and I need hp.
23:57:53  <MinchinWeb> well, I think your site works... 0.75kW = 750W
23:58:09  <swissfan91> okay so here is the RhB ABe 4/4 I
23:58:26  <swissfan91> and it is said to have 395kW power output
23:58:50  <swissfan91> and the converter gives that to be ~529
23:59:44  <MinchinWeb> 395kW / (0.75kW /hp) = 526.6667hp
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