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00:00:10 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 00:00:32 <Snail_> back, comp crashed 00:01:16 <frosch123> so we finally get non-railtype specfic tunnels? 00:01:41 <swissfan91> maybe they'd look better viewed in Ogfx? they seem to suit that more. 00:02:14 <Snail_> well, I'm drawing some sprites that can be the base on which custom tunnel portals can be built 00:02:40 <Snail_> they just include the grass/desert/snow, the slope and the area around the portal 00:03:05 <Snail_> then, a railtype set could ideally provide its own graphics for the track and the portals 00:03:59 <swissfan91> when I think of France, I think of these tunnels .. http://www.la-clau.net/imatges/noticia/tunel_del_pertus_febrer_2009_la_clau.jpg 00:04:12 <frosch123> hmm, i don't see what the 16 sprites represent 00:04:16 <frosch123> 4 per direction 00:04:23 <frosch123> one below the rail, one above 00:04:27 <frosch123> what are the other two ? 00:04:57 <frosch123> snow? grass density? 00:05:34 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 00:05:38 <Snail_> frosch123: what sprites are you referring to? 00:07:04 <frosch123> +static const uint16 RAILTYPE_TUNNEL_BASE_COUNT = 16; <- those :p 00:08:32 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> so we finally get non-railtype specfic tunnels? <-- no, we get railtype specific tunnels in the first place 00:10:11 <Snail_> 2 for the landscape and 2 for the portal for each direction 00:10:31 <Snail_> the landscape would be provided by OTTD (it's what I'm trying to draw now ;) ) 00:10:46 <Snail_> and the portals by the rail 00:14:25 <michi_cc> frosch123: Grass and snow/desert. 00:15:14 <frosch123> no grass densities? 00:15:17 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.87.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:15:30 <Snail_> basically they get drawn with this order: (1) the landscape behind and below the train; (2) the track and the part of the portal behind the train; (3) the landscape above; (4) the part of the portal above the train 00:15:33 <Snail_> so, 4 parts 00:15:33 <planetmaker> hm, very good point 00:15:46 <planetmaker> we should start providing it for all snow and grass densities 00:16:22 <swissfan91> grassy tt-forums have returned! at least on mine.. 00:20:48 *** vodka [~paper@41.Red-88-15-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:21:14 <michi_cc> frosch123: If snail draws them... But then, the original tunnel portals don't have that either. 00:21:36 <planetmaker> michi_cc: then we draw it all the new way ;-) 00:21:51 <planetmaker> but providing that for all grass densities makes much sense 00:22:09 <planetmaker> otherwise we make the path to nicer snow densities again much more difficult 00:22:20 <planetmaker> or rather ugly, if not more difficult 00:22:35 <frosch123> hmm, original tunnels don't have that? :o 00:22:39 <planetmaker> nope 00:22:52 <planetmaker> snow transition anywhere not plain terrain is binary 00:22:56 <frosch123> hmm, ok, then we should make it consistent with that 00:22:57 <planetmaker> as is desert transition 00:23:05 <frosch123> more is fore action 123 new landscape then :) 00:23:16 <planetmaker> :-D 00:23:27 <planetmaker> Do you think a Feature for landscape is acceptable? 00:23:58 <planetmaker> Probably would need a test, eh? 00:24:15 <frosch123> as long as it does not get animation or similiar cb-heavy stuff 00:24:38 <frosch123> (so it does not increase the cpu load for stuff not being visible) 00:24:57 <frosch123> zoom-out is slow anyway :p 00:25:13 <frosch123> there is that smallmap-like zoomout on the forums 00:25:21 <frosch123> maybe we should do that already for the current 8x zoom out 00:25:28 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d0831e9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 00:25:48 <Snail_> are snow densities implemented already? 00:25:56 <planetmaker> Snail_: they are in TTD 00:26:19 <planetmaker> and newgrfs have that variable for eons 00:26:27 <planetmaker> at least industries and houses 00:26:48 <planetmaker> implicitly via the snow height 00:27:20 <planetmaker> thus full snow awareness is mostly a matter of coding effort 00:27:44 <planetmaker> exceptions are bridges (no info at all) and railtypes (only snow yes/no) 00:27:54 <Snail_> but the tunnel sprites are all the same 00:27:56 <planetmaker> as they have both no tileheight info 00:29:03 <planetmaker> FIRS: have a look at the new FIRS or at OpenGFX+ Airports 00:30:17 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BE52.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:24 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:37:26 <Snail_> I'd say to finalize the general shape first, using the grassy temperate sprites... once the general shading and length of the "bowl" are finalized, I can start drawing other landscapes and grass/snow densities 00:38:46 <planetmaker> that makes sense 00:45:56 *** swissfan91 [5e0a1d27@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 00:51:17 <Snail_> I'll probably enhance those sprites during the weekend ;) 00:52:18 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-026-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 00:52:44 <frosch123> night 00:52:47 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00b6be.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:30 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:08:42 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-039-231.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 01:10:15 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 01:15:39 <welshdragon> the reason why I need copy and paste: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5811013/Railtrack%2C%201999-02-04.png 01:15:54 <welshdragon> trying to recreate that is going to be messy 01:16:19 <welshdragon> (or even savegame compatibilty, but meh... 01:30:10 *** TdlQ_ [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:38:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never ever had a use case for copy-paste 01:39:40 <welshdragon> nope, I can't do it.... 01:39:56 <welshdragon> brain. cannot. compute. 01:40:29 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:41:24 <planetmaker> welshdragon: why would I want to re-create something which I have already? 01:41:32 <planetmaker> especially via c&p? 01:41:56 <welshdragon> planetmaker: because I like to play the same map over and over and over again? 01:42:07 <planetmaker> The easier approach there seems to me the "play me" button. Available via the AI of your choice 01:42:24 <welshdragon> >AI 01:48:47 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:51:08 <Wolf01> 'night 01:51:21 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 01:51:40 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 01:52:47 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 01:58:00 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:01:22 *** hbc [~hbc@116.27.167.123] has joined #openttd 02:03:01 *** hbc [~hbc@116.27.167.123] has left #openttd [] 02:04:04 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-1-3.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: welshdragon] 03:22:00 *** fjb|tab [~frank@pD9EA6B7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 03:33:06 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:34:28 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-74-234-81.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 03:34:28 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-74-234-81.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:39:16 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:90ec:9e1a:2895:512b] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:48:55 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 04:52:32 *** hbc [~hbc@116.27.167.123] has joined #openttd 04:53:47 *** hbc [~hbc@116.27.167.123] has left #openttd [] 05:24:30 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest23080 05:24:30 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDAC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:27:25 *** Guest23080 [~frank@pD9EA6B7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73F53.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73BC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:09:18 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-74-234-81.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 06:09:19 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-74-234-81.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:13:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-2-101-97-155.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 06:34:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23768 /trunk/changelog.txt: -Fix: inconsistent stye in changelog 06:42:57 <andythenorth> could model availability be handled by a CB? 06:43:23 <andythenorth> either for prop 06 (climate) or prop 04 (model life) 06:43:28 <andythenorth> climate would be better 06:52:52 * andythenorth ponders magic 07:07:24 <Rubidium> action6? 07:11:43 <andythenorth> doesn't work so well for hiding one model when a new one becomes available 07:11:43 * andythenorth is spamming the buy menu with trucks, and would like some to go away :P 07:11:43 <andythenorth> model life is....unpredictable at best 07:25:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-2-101-97-155.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:28:27 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 07:35:12 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:36:06 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #openttd [] 07:52:15 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:54:53 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 07:59:11 *** Remi_Woler [~textual@wolerized.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:58 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:13:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-2-101-97-155.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 08:21:53 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest23177 08:21:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:24:59 *** Elukka [~Elukka@78-27-84-248.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 08:27:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BFE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:27:17 *** Guest23177 [~Andy@host-2-101-97-155.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:30:59 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 08:34:26 <Terkhen> good morning 08:35:13 *** TdlQ_ [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 08:35:27 *** TdlQ_ is now known as MJP 08:39:37 <andythenorth> hola Terkhen 08:39:56 <andythenorth> hmm 08:40:12 * andythenorth ponders using the nml generator from Eddi|zuHause 08:40:18 <andythenorth> "but generators are evil!" 08:46:34 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc110b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 08:50:22 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:51:20 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:51:23 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:02:14 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 09:10:09 * andythenorth wonders if CPP can do something like #define veh_id _filename_ 09:11:50 <Alberth> ? 09:12:34 <Alberth> you mean dynamically create new #define ? no, afaik 09:12:46 * Alberth recommends m4 instead 09:14:30 <Alberth> cpp is designed as text replacement engine, not as code generator 09:16:14 <andythenorth> Alberth: no, the define will be in the file, I just want to use the filename as an argument (to set the value of the define) 09:16:20 <andythenorth> it's probably a bad pattern :P 09:17:31 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 09:17:49 <Alberth> there is __FILE__ 09:29:14 *** pjpe [ae5b52e7@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:35:16 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-1-147.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:44:13 *** TdlQ [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 09:51:07 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:51:19 *** TdlQ is now known as MJP 09:56:38 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc110b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:00:32 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: Sla Mutant Co-Op for Renegade - coming back soon] 10:07:58 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:19:07 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 10:24:04 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:30:20 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 10:30:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:31:19 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc110b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:42:05 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-1-3.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:47:37 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.87.68] has joined #openttd 10:54:33 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc110b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:14:11 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: Sla Mutant Co-Op for Renegade - coming back soon] 11:21:37 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:22:19 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 11:25:21 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 11:30:54 <TrueBrain> Why is it that Windows Update takes longer than a Gentoo update? 11:30:58 <TrueBrain> that surely has to be wrong :( 11:35:57 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 11:36:13 <Alberth> MS minutes 11:38:34 <Ammler> you update windows every half a year when you accidentially start it 11:38:55 <Ammler> or when you want to play Mass Effect 11:40:15 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590d5e1a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:40:28 <Alberth> they want to make sure there are enough sysadmins around to manage the window systems 11:40:36 <Alberth> o/ frosch123 11:41:40 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc110b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:41:41 <frosch123> hai albert :) 11:44:32 <TrueBrain> weird part is, I update every month. Yet it takes FOR EVER :( 11:46:25 * Alberth blames DRM 11:47:27 <TrueBrain> you are most likely right 11:47:29 <TrueBrain> sadly 11:49:58 *** APTX_ [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 11:50:16 <planetmaker> moin 11:50:51 <Alberth> moin pm 11:51:00 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 11:51:34 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:51:50 <kkb110_> Q: I would like to add custom toolbar that needs drag-drop on the view... what file/function should I look at??? 11:52:10 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-35-73.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:52:52 <Alberth> you want to make a new toolbar? 11:54:37 <Alberth> if so, you are basically creating a new window, so any toolbar window will do 11:55:54 <Alberth> the airport build bar is quite simple, should be in airport_gui 11:55:57 <Alberth> Window *ShowBuildAirToolbar() 11:57:34 <Alberth> I am not sure that we have cross-window drag/drop. you could look in the depot window perhaps 11:57:55 <Alberth> that is not cross-window, but it does show the functions involved 11:57:58 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-50-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:58:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 11:59:09 <Alberth> hmm, pehaps the order window would be useful too, where you can add an order, and click at the main display for actual adding 11:59:16 <Alberth> o/ andy 12:00:24 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111221202647]] 12:04:21 <kkb110_> Alberth, ok I'll give a shot thank you :) 12:04:42 <andythenorth> mornings 12:04:44 <frosch123> be careful, the order window is the most complicated window code we have 12:05:36 <kkb110_> most codes are already complicated enough for me lol 12:06:56 <Alberth> what do you want to drag/drop? 12:07:33 <kkb110_> I'm planning to "remake" copy/paste feature 12:09:22 <Alberth> the usual approach is like what happens with stations and airports and so, where you switch the mouse mode to 'placement' and then wait for a click 12:09:42 <Alberth> or the other way around, click 'raise', drag an area, and it gets raised 12:11:06 <Alberth> tbh I don't see the need for drag/drop so much 12:11:33 <kkb110_> then how to specify copying area? 12:11:50 <Alberth> just like terraforming does it 12:12:24 <Alberth> dragging until mouse is released already exists 12:12:24 <kkb110_> wait.. so it's drag-drop now? 12:12:39 <kkb110_> yes that's what I'm looking for 12:13:12 <Alberth> oh, I understood your question as drag from your new window onto the main display 12:13:55 <kkb110_> it hope it makes easier than before lol 12:14:20 <Alberth> the terraform window would be useful to study 12:14:39 <kkb110_> ok terraform_gui.cpp.. 12:15:29 <TrueBrain> another copy/paste patch; like we dont have enough of them already :D Hehe :) You might also be interested to look into works of others 12:15:31 <Alberth> the station placement window can also drag an area 12:16:23 <Alberth> I would assume they have covered the UI already 12:16:31 <kkb110_> TrueBrain, I'm gonna look at it when I really don't get it :) I skimmed it.. thousands of lines... it's too long! 12:16:54 <Alberth> kkb110_: so focus on the window parts only 12:17:17 <kkb110_> ok~ 12:17:48 <Alberth> kkb110_: and quite likely, those thousands of lines are mostly all needed :p 12:18:19 <kkb110_> Alberth, haha yes probably 12:20:48 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:21:17 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDAC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:59 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDAC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:26:21 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest23256 12:26:21 *** Guest23256 [~frank@p5DDFDAC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:26:21 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDAC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:30:35 <kkb110_> ok I think I'm now getting it.. and instead of making a new toolbar, it seems attaching a button to terraform_gui.cpp is more duable :) 12:31:35 <Alberth> that saves a few hundred lines of code :p 12:51:03 *** hbc [~hbc@116.27.167.166] has joined #openttd 12:51:08 *** hbc [~hbc@116.27.167.166] has left #openttd [] 12:51:41 *** hbc [~hbc@116.27.167.166] has joined #openttd 12:52:03 *** hbc [~hbc@116.27.167.166] has left #openttd [] 12:52:32 *** hbccbh [~hbc@116.27.167.166] has joined #openttd 12:52:52 <Alberth> staying now hbccbh ? 12:52:59 <hbccbh> yep 12:53:08 <Alberth> welcome then :) 12:53:27 <hbccbh> thx, my network down just now =( 13:00:53 <fonsinchen> good morning everybody 13:01:31 *** hbccbh [~hbc@116.27.167.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:06:45 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.94.122] has joined #openttd 13:08:31 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:ed8d:5832:265a:d29c] has joined #openttd 13:08:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:13:15 <fonsinchen> Any suggestions on how to better manage my cargodist code and split it up into even smaller parts which would be still independenty modifiable? 13:13:37 <fonsinchen> The whole git branching and merging business is slowly getting out of hand. I'd like some solution where I'd be able to use rebase and have a "stable branch" somewhere. 13:13:47 *** luxOOr [~chatzilla@HSI-KBW-149-172-8-25.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #openttd 13:14:07 <fonsinchen> (And don't say hg patch queues as those are linear only and apart from that have the same problem) 13:15:05 <fonsinchen> Also I need to split up the code in even smaller parts, but in my current setup this would increase the number of branches even more ... 13:15:43 <Alberth> did you automate this handling? 13:15:47 <fonsinchen> Yes 13:16:07 <fonsinchen> I have that "gitmake.mk" script in my repo which does all the merging for me 13:16:25 <MJP> Hi all! Alberth, since you are a GUI expert, would you mind to take a look at the part5 of my zoom64 r26 patchset? In particular the 3 modifications of window.cpp, I think they could be considered as an independant fix. Thx 13:16:38 *** hbccbh [~hbc@183.45.236.27] has joined #openttd 13:16:40 <fonsinchen> However, if there is a conflict somewhere it's likely I have to resolve that several times in a row for different branches 13:17:05 <Alberth> that's where the shit hits the fan thus :) 13:17:17 <fonsinchen> And merges are ugly, they destroy the commit history 13:18:10 <Alberth> MJP: euhm, somewhen later today perhaps? do you have a link? 13:18:52 <MJP> it's there : http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=53394 ⊠and there's no hurry :) 13:19:20 <Alberth> I never change history 13:19:49 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 13:20:14 <fonsinchen> Sometimes it's a good idea. michi_cc does it and he doesn't need 22 branches for YACD as his commits are what my branches are 13:20:16 <Alberth> it destroys history in the sense that you don't have a sequence patch1, patch2, etc ? 13:20:43 <fonsinchen> No, it intermixes trunk changes with my changes 13:21:17 <fonsinchen> So if I'm looking for some set of commits where I changed something it's likely they're not in a sequence. 13:22:06 <fonsinchen> and it creates loads and loads of "Merge blah" commits. 13:22:26 *** luxOOr [~chatzilla@HSI-KBW-149-172-8-25.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has left #openttd [] 13:22:45 <Alberth> I am trying to picture what you want to achieve 13:23:27 <Alberth> basically have a repo for each revision? 13:23:34 <fonsinchen> At the moment I have that complicated graph of branches where each branch has a set of "precondition branches" and I'm using make to merge it all together if something changes somewhere. 13:24:19 <fonsinchen> for example one branch for feature "reservation", one for "MCF" and one for "cargomap" which depends on "MCF" and "reservation" 13:24:43 <Alberth> what if you consider each to be a separate project? 13:25:12 <fonsinchen> And then? 13:25:19 <Alberth> with its own repo, and releases 13:26:14 <fonsinchen> Then I have 22 folders each with one copy of OpenTTD and some changes on top of that. 13:26:23 <fonsinchen> Sounds like a mess ... 13:27:30 <Alberth> I am not sure what exactly the problem is, often creating more structure helps, but perhaps not here 13:28:36 <appe_> bah, i can see the ufo land 13:28:36 <appe_> but i cant prevent it? 13:28:36 <appe_> :)( 13:28:39 <appe_> :( 13:28:40 <appe_> * 13:28:47 <fonsinchen> I'm also not quite sure, but I'm about to add 4 more branches and I somehow think a lot of that structure is actually not helpful. 13:29:21 <fonsinchen> I'm constantly switching branches, merging things back and forth, resolving conflicts and stuff like that. 13:29:49 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 13:30:13 <Alberth> appe_: quickly remove all tracks :p 13:30:19 <fonsinchen> However, I need the code to be split into small chunks as once I give that up I won't be able to easily recreate it if it needs to be merged into trunk. 13:31:39 <Alberth> I have those problems in patch queues too. I feel that the software could be made smarter in the sense that it understands there are relations between patches 13:32:28 <Alberth> ie I think it now treats each patch as a separate patch without taking into account it came from a queue 13:33:07 <Alberth> which gives the multiple conflict mess you talk about 13:34:04 <Alberth> but writing such software is a whole new project in itself :( 13:34:46 <fonsinchen> It should be possible to use git or hg in a more intelligent way, though. 13:35:20 <Alberth> maybe you should talk to some git gurus 13:35:22 <michi_cc> git rebase -i and git add -i 13:36:32 <michi_cc> Are the commits in your branches smaller, bigger or equal to a typical trunk commit? 13:36:50 <fonsinchen> they differ wildly 13:37:30 <fonsinchen> sometimes they're one liners where I only fixed some whitespace problem, sometimes it's a complete reimplementation of some class. 13:37:41 <fonsinchen> I don't like my commit history so much anyway 13:38:07 <fonsinchen> I should restructure the whole thing and rebase it on trunk. 13:38:59 <fonsinchen> michi_cc: Do you actually have more branches you work with or do you really keep exactly one commit for each feature? What do you do if you need to fix something? git commit --amend? 13:39:08 <michi_cc> My development process makes liberal use of rebase -i. If I notice some bug I make a fix commit which is then squashed into the broken commit when I rebase the next time. 13:39:55 <fonsinchen> and you make that fix commit on top of the one and only YACD branch I guess? 13:40:29 <fonsinchen> probably you mark it somehow as "belongs to commit X". I see ... 13:43:34 <michi_cc> Splitting features into proper sized commits is easy using git add -i (respectively git citool). If you take http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/openttd.git/shortlog/refs/heads/yaim for example, I wrote everything (except the NoAI commit) more or less in one go the first time and then carved proper commits from my working dir. It's quite good to see in this case that all commits are mostly independent. 13:45:03 <michi_cc> After the first iteration I (of course :) discovered lots of errors, which then went into fixup commits which were squashed into the proper base commit (look up --autosquash in get help rebase). 13:46:22 <michi_cc> The YACD repository went through too many iterations that hide this process by now. 13:46:26 <fonsinchen> Ah nice, autosquash is what I was looking for, I guess. 13:46:56 <fonsinchen> what is git citool? 13:47:09 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:47:24 <Alberth> MJP: I didn't invent the focus stuff, Zuu did. How does it fix what problem? 13:47:37 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 13:47:43 <Alberth> o/ Wolf01 13:47:49 <Wolf01> o/ Alberth 13:48:01 <michi_cc> short from of git gui citool, i.e. the integrated GUI tool. With that the process of picking diff hunks or even just lines is much easier than the text interface of git add -p/-i 13:49:12 <michi_cc> Just to spell it out explicitly, my kind of workflow completely relies on working with the index/staging area of git. 13:50:22 <fonsinchen> Now, say you want to add a major new feature somewhere in between. What I'm doing so far is creating a new branch, working on the new feature until it's complete and then adding the new branch to the merge hierarchy. 13:50:49 <MJP> well, if I have two extra viewports, I move the first, so it gets the focus, then I right click in the middle of the second and it does not receive focus (though I'm interacting with it) 13:51:09 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 13:51:26 <fonsinchen> You would probably edit the head until the feature is ready and then reorder the commits with git rebase -i, right? 13:52:03 <fonsinchen> Saves a lot of checkout and merge action and makes a nice commit history ... 13:52:20 <michi_cc> In principle yes, but why would I want that feature in between? If it's a new feature, the old code can, by definition, not rely on it, so just leave it at the head be good. 13:52:22 <MJP> the other thing is the news window can get focused while I'm interacting with another window... I don't think that's normal 13:52:53 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:21 <Alberth> MJP: ? this->nested_root->GetWidgetOfType(WWT_EDITBOX) != NULL fails for news afaik 13:53:43 <fonsinchen> For example I'm adding code to support transfer and "unload all"/"no unload" orders. This touches several distinct places. For example I have to add a linkgraph normalizer which should logically be placed between the linkgraph creating code and the demand calculator. 13:53:59 <fonsinchen> and so I think the commit (or branch) should also be there. 13:55:06 <Alberth> MJP: maybe I don't understand "getting focus" here? A viewport also doesn't have an edit box 13:55:07 <MJP> Alberth: this is strange because when the news shows up, _focused_window points to its window 13:57:34 <Alberth> MJP: the whole focus stuff already existed when I came in, and I 'only' changed how widgets are created and sized. 13:57:38 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:58:07 *** vodka [~paper@41.Red-88-15-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 13:58:29 <michi_cc> If I don't really code a completely new feature but instead change/extend the existing code I basically create two types of commits intermixed, squash commits for earlier stuff and new commits that will be moved to a good place in the commit history. Mostly I would completely code and test the new stuff and then use selective stating and commit to carve good commits from it. 13:58:30 <Alberth> so far I never really understood what its function is 13:59:44 <Alberth> michi_cc: I tend to code a feature, then use diff mode of gvim to copy the changes in the right order to a new patch queue 13:59:59 <MJP> well, it does not seem to be very important for the rest of the game... it only "corrupts" the position and size of what I draw on my map while the news window rises (after that, it goes back to normal) 14:00:01 <michi_cc> This does require some diligence to make sure you carve the commits in the order they will end up in the commit history (i.e. commits that will end up further from HEAD have to be created first). If you don't do that, the result will still work, but most likely give merge conflicts on rebasing. 14:01:12 <michi_cc> Alberth: That's a bit similar to partial staging I guess. git can do it down to line level, no idea if gvim can do that too. 14:02:10 <Alberth> MJP: that sounds weird to me. Perhaps have a closer look how the news window gets risen? There have been other problems with it in the past, but I cannot remember the details (but svn blame can :) ) 14:02:27 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 14:03:49 <Alberth> michi_cc: down to single characters if you want to :) basically you get an old/new window next to each other, and you can copy/edit both in any way you like. gvim just highlights the differences for you, nothing more 14:04:18 <MJP> ok, I'll see if I can understand the problem better... seems that there is only a problem with the news window... I didn't read that code yet... anyway, those 3 modifications of window.cpp did fix my specific problem 14:05:23 <Alberth> MJP: afaik focus is only about where to draw the caret, and where to send keyboard input to. I don't understand how that would interfer with drawing stuff at the screen 14:05:44 <Alberth> perhaps your fixes force a few extra redraws or so? 14:06:39 <michi_cc> Ah, then it is not really the same as partial staging, just with a somewhat similar result. Partial staging basically means that you look at the output of git diff in your working copy and select for each diff hunk or even line if it shall be marked for the next commit or not. And if you're crazy enough you can even edit the to-be-staged diff hunk in a text editor. 14:06:52 *** dageek [~dageek@2001:8b0:ff85:0:223:32ff:fec9:1f10] has joined #openttd 14:06:52 <MJP> while I scroll a viewport, it refreshes its position if there are viewports ar a map zoomlevel 14:07:56 <Alberth> michi_cc: sounds useful 14:12:04 <Alberth> when a news window rises, you get a second source of redraw requests, perhaps that interferes in some way 14:12:04 <Zuu> MJP: Why do you need to not give keyboard input focus to a text box if you are scrolling the map at the sime time? 14:13:28 <MJP> Zuu: take a look at http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=154289 14:13:39 <Zuu> Yes, I have patch5 open here. 14:13:55 <MJP> the white box on the map moves as I scroll the extra viewport 14:14:22 <MJP> to draw that white box, I use _focused_window 14:14:57 <fonsinchen> brrr, my patches are between 2.1K and 71K in size. I definitely should restructure the whole thing ... 14:15:11 <MJP> but when the news rises, the white box has size and position of the news window and not the extraviewport I am scrolling 14:15:22 <Zuu> So you draw this white rectangle automatically if a extra viewport is open and is focused? 14:15:40 <MJP> and scrolled, yes 14:15:40 <fonsinchen> OK, the largest one is smallmap-refactor which is only syntactical sugar. 14:17:28 <Eddi|zuHause> the 64x zoom out patch starts to look interesting (basically like "smallmap in main viewport") 14:17:32 <Zuu> Is there case when news need focus? Unless changed, focus is so far used for deciding if and which text widget that should grap the key input. 14:18:25 <Zuu> Ok, I guess then scrolling a small map will qualify as grabing input. 14:18:28 <Eddi|zuHause> the space bar to close the news? 14:18:53 <MJP> Eddi|zuHause: thanks :) 14:18:54 <Zuu> Could be a global hotkey 14:19:05 <Zuu> I don't know actually, but I would guess it's global. 14:19:40 <Zuu> Meaning thas as far as no text input has focus, you can execute a global hotkey. 14:19:44 <MJP> Zuu: I do not know the focus thing very well, I just had to look at it to fix a graphic glitch in my patch 14:21:11 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-1-147.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:59 <Zuu> I can not really say if it is wrong or right. If you need to do it, I guess you have too. 14:22:38 <Zuu> If it is only news that cause the problem, an alternative thing might be to black list the news window from grabing focus. But I guess also a vehicle offer could do the same thing. 14:22:59 <Zuu> So perhaps your solution is not that bad after all. :-) 14:23:57 <Eddi|zuHause> ah... a propos: when i playtested recently, the vehicle offers popped up in the background (behind the game/newgrf settings window, i believe) 14:24:03 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:24:24 <Eddi|zuHause> that was quite annoying, honestly 14:24:25 <MJP> well time will tell if there are unwanted side effects :) 14:25:28 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:26:26 <Zuu> MJP: Have you added hotkey hooks for your vegitaion/owner/industry view switch? So that folks like me that "suffers" from no mouse wheel can acces your features too? 14:27:04 <MJP> err, no 14:28:12 <Zuu> You can just provide hooks that will end up in hotkeys.cfg without assigning default hotkeys for things that you don't think qualify to grab a key in the default config. 14:29:17 <MJP> ok, I'll do that for the next release 14:29:39 <Zuu> For example in the filter sign list window I added one to focus the text edit control. In my hotkeys.cfg I've assigned Global+Ctrl+L to it. That way whenever I press ctrl+L, that window is opened up and I can filter signs. Still, others who don't think it is important are not bothered by it. 14:43:47 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23769 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: make the lag/join start timeouts configurable as well 14:48:57 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-182-224.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 14:58:11 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:09:44 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-1-147.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:11:07 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 15:15:20 <appe_> jeez 15:15:21 <fonsinchen> Is there an explanation of the commit message prefixes somewhere? For example when do you use "Add:" and when do you use "Feature:". 15:15:54 <appe_> i just found a big set back with using big circular network to get lots of trains around 15:16:18 <appe_> the amount of work needed when you have 2-300 trains on the same railway (but none of them to the same industry) 15:16:22 <appe_> is staggering 15:16:57 <frosch123> fonsinchen: http://wiki.openttd.org/Commit_style 15:17:00 <frosch123> but it is pretty mood :) 15:17:44 <frosch123> i use feature/change for user-visible stuff, and add/codechange for more refactoring/preparation stuff 15:19:04 <fonsinchen> Thanks. Can I get that check script? 15:23:15 *** hbccbh [~hbc@183.45.236.27] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:24:38 <frosch123> i would guess tb would find it faster than me 15:27:38 <fonsinchen> TrueBrain: Could you find me that commit stye check script for the openttd repository, please? 15:28:00 <TrueBrain> eeeuuuuhhhhhhhh 15:28:07 <TrueBrain> its embedded in our post-commit 15:28:20 <TrueBrain> a simple regexp .. euhh .. 15:28:43 <TrueBrain> euh, precommit of course 15:29:36 <fonsinchen> The regex would be enough then, I gues 15:29:51 <TrueBrain> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/903/ 15:29:56 <TrueBrain> then validation of the variables follow 15:30:18 <TrueBrain> hope I copy/pasted it correct, as linebreaks go all crazy 15:30:31 <fonsinchen> thanks 15:31:29 <TrueBrain> overly complex due to branches 15:31:38 <TrueBrain> cut -d: -f1 15:31:42 <TrueBrain> would work too :P 15:31:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:51 <fonsinchen> And it doesn't really enforce the types from http://wiki.openttd.org/Commit_style, does it? 15:33:05 <planetmaker> It does 15:33:12 <planetmaker> iirc 15:33:20 <TrueBrain> it has a big switch following yeah 15:33:23 <planetmaker> at least the leading "-" 15:33:27 <TrueBrain> which is a part of this list :P 15:33:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:33:59 <TrueBrain> things like Move are also accepted; but that is of little relevance to most :) 15:34:22 <fonsinchen> OK, I can recreate that list myself. 15:34:36 <TrueBrain> it depends on the project :) 15:35:44 <fonsinchen> I just want to make sure my commit messages look like yours and I'm notoriously mistyping them 15:37:32 <Alberth> fonsinchen: can you use a Python script? I have written a check thingie for hg 15:37:46 <fonsinchen> yes 15:38:02 <fonsinchen> a python script would also be nice 15:38:20 <TrueBrain> fonsinchen: I doubt the commit message will ever be a real issue :) And by following the wiki, at least the idea of the wiki (so the -, the: and the space), and the rest will follow :) 15:38:33 <TrueBrain> I would not worry too much if you pick the right word, like Fix, Add, ... 15:38:47 <TrueBrain> the devs already have different interpertations of it :P 15:39:21 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/check_commit.py 15:41:17 <Alberth> but quite likely the commit message is typed again manually when merging to trunk, so I wouldn't worry too much about them 15:43:08 <fonsinchen> nice 15:43:47 <fonsinchen> I know it's not terribly important, but the commit history I have now is quite a mess and I want to properly clean it up. 15:45:16 <fonsinchen> this looks a lot nicer I think: https://github.com/fonsinchen/openttd-cargodist/commits/cdr 15:56:07 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc110b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:02:35 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:02:58 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 16:08:51 *** dageek [~dageek@2001:8b0:ff85:0:223:32ff:fec9:1f10] has quit [Quit: dageek] 16:23:10 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:56 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc110b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:24:07 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:27:56 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 16:33:59 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 16:41:29 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:41:32 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 16:41:39 <appe_> hm 16:42:05 <appe_> what kind of parameters decide whether new industries open on a normal map? 16:42:16 <Zuu> What is the state with readmes now, should content providers insert hard line breaks or not? 16:43:36 <frosch123> readmes use monospaced fonts now 16:43:50 <frosch123> so they may do any kind of ascii formatting they like to do 16:44:18 <frosch123> no idea about wrapping though 16:45:42 <andythenorth> appe_: map generator settings 16:45:48 <andythenorth> using an industry newgrf? 16:46:07 <appe_> no, all standard 16:46:11 <appe_> im playing online 16:46:26 <appe_> the server settings allow new industries (they occationally pop up) 16:46:40 <appe_> but i need ways to make new pop up 16:48:01 <appe_> the server settings are: manual primary ind.. ..method: none, allow multiple similar industries per town = off. 16:48:04 <appe_> that is what i find 16:49:35 <frosch123> it's random then, no chance for you to influence it 16:49:53 <Rubidium> except disabling industries at all 16:50:12 <appe_> ah, ok. 16:50:30 <appe_> hm 16:50:46 <appe_> increasing city size should promote the rate of new industries 16:50:48 <appe_> that would be neat 16:50:54 <appe_> and realistic, if im honest. 16:50:56 <appe_> :) 16:52:30 <andythenorth> GS :P 16:52:55 <TrueBrain> what have I done .. I made GS the default goto for any issue 16:53:01 <TrueBrain> read the crasiest things already :P 16:57:18 <appe_> GS? 16:58:07 <Terkhen> gamescripts 16:58:29 <appe_> ah. 17:00:55 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I may not always be serious when I offer GS as the default answer :P 17:01:10 <andythenorth> although I did wonder today if we should deprecate most of newgrf 17:04:06 <TrueBrain> lol 17:04:09 <TrueBrain> please not :) 17:04:11 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-120-89.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 17:05:10 <Terkhen> why? they are separate things 17:05:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and certainly not "most of"... 17:05:42 <andythenorth> just make them graphics 17:05:53 <andythenorth> with names defined in xml 17:05:59 <andythenorth> all properties decided by GS 17:06:28 <Eddi|zuHause> that's nonsense 17:06:31 <andythenorth> otherwise how are things like tech trees supported? 17:06:31 <TrueBrain> I wonder how GS would handle that, CPU-wise 17:06:58 <TrueBrain> I wonder how hard it is to write a GRF interperter in GS :P 17:07:22 <andythenorth> to achieve some things, GS needs control of, e.g. vehicles directly, 17:07:54 <Terkhen> NewGRFs are slow already 17:08:42 <Terkhen> besides that, I don't see why the format makes a difference regarding "who has control" 17:08:59 <andythenorth> it's a question of what's canonical 17:09:12 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-58-81.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:09:17 <andythenorth> if a GS can modify properties defined by newgrf, that's a nightmare of bug reports 17:09:22 <andythenorth> therefore - remove newgrf... 17:09:40 <andythenorth> GS authors who want things like tech trees then need to provide the vehicles 17:09:50 <andythenorth> it makes no sense unless they do anyway 17:10:01 <Terkhen> why can't that be done with NewGRFs? 17:10:15 <andythenorth> instead of GS? 17:10:18 <andythenorth> or combined with GS? 17:11:12 <Alberth> TrueBrain: one squirrel instance per house :p 17:13:38 <Terkhen> andythenorth: what I mean is, what makes those ideas format dependent? 17:14:11 <andythenorth> newgrf can't do things like raise a dialogue box to the user? 17:15:35 <TrueBrain> Alberth: I rather to .. fuck .. my brain goes blank 17:15:36 <TrueBrain> euh 17:15:38 <TrueBrain> erlang 17:15:46 <TrueBrain> I would love to write OpenTTD in erlang, the statemachine part of it :) 17:15:55 <TrueBrain> would result in some epicness :D 17:16:33 <TrueBrain> to = do 17:16:35 <TrueBrain> ugh 17:16:36 <TrueBrain> I need a dinner :P 17:16:49 <Alberth> yeah, that's one of the few positive properties you can attach to that :D 17:16:51 <Terkhen> andythenorth: how would an XML format do it? 17:16:53 <Alberth> enjoy TB 17:16:56 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: tbh, you do have a point. Some hybrid would be best for everything 17:16:59 <TrueBrain> but .... :) 17:17:06 <andythenorth> we are where we are :) 17:17:18 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 17:17:20 <andythenorth> I don't advocate that we drop newgrf 17:17:34 <Eddi|zuHause> mÀh... google docs is so buggy... 17:17:35 <TrueBrain> GS in NewGRF 17:17:36 <andythenorth> but that limits GS potential 17:17:38 <TrueBrain> would be a nice hybrid :) 17:17:50 <TrueBrain> let iets NewGRF run his own GS :P 17:19:19 <andythenorth> moderately valid actually :) 17:19:25 <Terkhen> so... deprecate NewGRFs and use a new format that is coupled better with GS? 17:19:37 <andythenorth> Terkhen: it's not format 17:19:43 <andythenorth> it's canonicalness 17:19:50 <TrueBrain> in some way NewGRF is like GS, just GS has an easier API :D :P :D 17:22:30 <frosch123> he, we already failed to make gs actually define an entity :p 17:22:35 <frosch123> in gmae 17:26:25 *** [lan3y] [tom.lane0@5ade4375.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 17:27:23 <[lan3y]> hi i set openttd to full screen in options but it makes the whole screen go black/grey and nothing is usable, is there a settings file i can tweak to change it back? 17:27:44 <frosch123> openttd.cfg 17:27:47 <frosch123> or alt+center 17:27:51 <frosch123> *enter 17:28:43 <[lan3y]> thanks 17:30:37 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:35:20 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 17:37:30 *** TdlQ [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 17:39:23 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc110b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:55 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:49:58 *** TdlQ is now known as MJP 17:50:19 <andythenorth> BANDIT is done :P 17:50:20 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2267/BANDIT.png 17:51:28 <Alberth> so many! :O 17:52:03 <andythenorth> too many probably 17:52:19 <andythenorth> the set covers at least 110 years of gameplay though 17:52:30 <fjb|tab> Nice 17:52:37 <andythenorth> those trucks cover 1905-1970 17:52:40 <frosch123> they look all the same :p 17:52:42 <andythenorth> probably too many :P 17:53:03 <frosch123> make them available only for 5 years each :p 17:53:10 <andythenorth> if I didn't have to replicate 'trucks without trailers' and 'trucks with trailers' there would be fewerer 17:53:34 <andythenorth> but as that's required.... 17:55:46 <andythenorth> frosch123: one of them is different in appearance 17:55:51 <andythenorth> I challenge you to spot which :D 17:56:13 <andythenorth> [some of the above may be lies] 17:56:59 <appe_> hm 17:58:08 <frosch123> they look the same to me 17:59:31 <andythenorth> my lie is discovered :P 17:59:53 <frosch123> the names are different though :p 18:00:04 <andythenorth> that's about all so far :P 18:00:32 <andythenorth> for semi-trailer trucks, /me has to calculate weight transfer from trailer to truck, and split capacity accordingly :P 18:03:08 <appe_> i found a way to make new industries on my tiny 64x64 internet game 18:03:20 <appe_> make the water dissapear. 18:03:20 <appe_> :D 18:03:33 <appe_> disappear* 18:04:35 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-1-147.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:13:53 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-1-3.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: welshdragon] 18:19:37 <andythenorth> too many trucks :P 18:22:37 *** welshdragon [~mark-oftc@static.209.236.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has joined #openttd 18:24:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:37:23 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r23770 /trunk/src/script/api/ (script_station.hpp script_waypoint.hpp): -Fix: compilation with GCC 4.7 18:41:15 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-1-147.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:45:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23771 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 18:45:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: belarusian - 2 changes by Wowanxm 18:45:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: catalan - 23 changes by arnau 18:45:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: finnish - 2 changes by jpx_ 18:45:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: latvian - 65 changes by Tranzistors 18:45:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: romanian - 3 changes by tonny 18:46:47 <appe_> http://gyazo.com/21c57775d108067f495b3a2b07fe823d 18:46:49 <appe_> room, plz. 18:49:31 <Alberth> 3 platforms for a powerplant? a bit overkill, isn't it? 18:50:07 <appe_> powerplant? 18:50:15 <appe_> its for the power plant and the timber station 18:50:28 <appe_> im forced to rebuild it to get more trains on there. 18:53:01 <Alberth> lack of space is the biggest challenge in 64x64 indeed :) 18:53:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i never found fun in 64x64... after three lines you're "done" and have "nothing" to do anymore... 18:53:46 <[lan3y]> ^^ 18:54:52 <Eddi|zuHause> you should probably put up more path signals 18:54:58 <appe_> Alberth: hehe 18:55:20 <appe_> Eddi|zuHause: to tight it up a bit? 18:55:32 <appe_> http://gyazo.com/97106da9e9675bfe5d9ad9d831a44073 18:55:33 <appe_> solved! 18:55:58 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: play FIRS at 64x64, you get 1 industry of each :) 18:56:44 <Alberth> oh, plenty of space :p 18:57:00 <appe_> man, this is fn 18:57:27 <appe_> the best thing with this - in wich i recently discoverd - is that playing online (with someone i know) makes the game a lot more fun 18:57:36 <appe_> since i cant affect the rules, cheat or fast forward. 18:57:38 <appe_> its neat. 18:58:30 <Alberth> coop? 18:58:46 * Alberth likes building things together 18:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: the smallest i played sensibly was 128x256. that also brought me 1 of each industry 19:00:53 <Alberth> yes, you always get at least 1 of each required industry, unless it cannot be placed 19:01:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i mean "not more" 19:02:17 <Eddi|zuHause> that was my YACD game, and passengers kinda trumped cargo anyway 19:02:46 *** pjpe [ae5b52e7@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:03:14 <Eddi|zuHause> YACDist may be more interesting for cargo 19:03:33 <Eddi|zuHause> or some hybrid that we discussed a while ago 19:06:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6DD66.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:11:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:12:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6DA38.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:18:48 <appe_> Alberth: no, not really, its more like singelplayer on someone elses rules. 19:18:53 <appe_> since he doesnt really play. 19:19:22 <Alberth> :( 19:20:46 <appe_> tho 19:20:53 <appe_> i have this town (small) with appaling status 19:21:27 <appe_> the status doesnt change with planting trees, and its too small to be bribed 19:21:27 <appe_> what to do? 19:22:22 <frosch123> clear all trees thoroughly 19:22:25 <frosch123> then replant 19:22:42 <frosch123> only the first tree on a tile coutns 19:24:29 <appe_> seriosly? 19:24:32 <appe_> for pete sake 19:24:38 <TrueBrain> who is this Pete you talk about? 19:24:55 <appe_> ive wasted £31,000,000 on trees. 19:25:30 <frosch123> sometimes it is better if you do not know the mechanics of a game :p 19:25:46 <frosch123> makes it more mysterious 19:25:50 <TrueBrain> spoils the game, or at least makes you feel stupid :D 19:25:55 <appe_> hehe 19:26:02 <appe_> indeed 19:27:32 *** APTX_ [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:30:34 <andythenorth> the first part of a game is figuring what the game is 19:30:44 <andythenorth> the other part is learning to win it :P 19:30:58 <andythenorth> with those two precepts, most of human pyschology is covered 19:33:06 * andythenorth wishes there was a special flag for RVs: "inherit refit from lead vehicle" 19:33:40 <andythenorth> i.e. refittable classes + properties 19:34:04 <Alberth> changing capacity of other vehicles does not cause enough chaos already? 19:34:27 <andythenorth> not really 19:34:35 <andythenorth> changing capacity is essential 19:34:56 <Alberth> OTHER vehicles 19:35:22 <Alberth> ie you buy a new engine and the wagons change capacity 19:37:06 <andythenorth> does that happen? 19:37:13 <andythenorth> sounds like newgrf author being odd 19:37:25 <andythenorth> or interestingly evil 19:37:58 <andythenorth> meanwhile I have to create a separate trailer vehicle for each trailer-truck 19:38:01 <andythenorth> :P 19:41:34 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 19:41:50 <Alberth> r23683 19:42:13 <SmatZ> @commit 23683 19:42:13 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by rubidium :: r23683 /trunk/src (4 files) (2011-12-28 19:48:04 UTC) 19:42:15 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Fix [FS#4912]-ish: when fitting another engine the cargo capacity of wagons could become lower, causing them to contain more than they should. This caused the cargo transfer from the replaced parts to put even more stuff in the already full wagon. Prevent this from happening by reducing the amount of cargo in the vehicle to the capacity when moving vehicles/wagons around, or when autoreplacing 19:43:19 <andythenorth> make it a road-vehicle-only special flag, not valid for lead vehicle? 19:43:32 <frosch123> just solve it with nml 19:43:33 <frosch123> much easier 19:43:42 <andythenorth> hmm 19:43:56 <andythenorth> nml can change props dynamically in the game? :o 19:44:07 <andythenorth> can it also make tea? 19:44:32 <andythenorth> I can solve it fast with templating + liberal use of vehicle IDs 19:44:40 <andythenorth> that's my plan right now 19:44:41 <frosch123> yup, do that 19:44:52 <andythenorth> "IDs are cheap" ? 19:44:58 <frosch123> that's why we extended artic parts to more than 128 19:45:14 <andythenorth> k 19:48:45 <andythenorth> also 19:48:51 <andythenorth> I've added too many trucks :P 19:51:51 <frosch123> andythenorth: if all your articulated parts have the same refittability as the front, you might actually consider to use the same id for all articulated parts as the front 19:52:35 <frosch123> though that might cause trouble with properties like weight 19:55:07 <andythenorth> frosch123: it's tmwftlb :) 19:55:14 <andythenorth> endless cb36 19:55:26 <andythenorth> I'll just sacrifice IDs 19:57:04 <andythenorth> if I used stats-upgrade-over-time for models, it would save IDs 19:57:08 <andythenorth> but nobody likes that :P 20:01:48 <TrueBrain> and I am a bit bored ... 20:11:17 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:12:14 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: afair, weight is not supported for articulated parts 20:12:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. "ignored, should be zero" 20:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause> any bets on when CETS will hit the next ID barrier? (which is currently 4096, but that may be stretched slightly if necessary) 20:16:04 <Eddi|zuHause> info: we just hit 600 20:19:39 <andythenorth> @calc 70 * 2.5 20:19:40 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 175 20:19:42 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:19:53 <andythenorth> @calc 175 * 1.4 20:19:53 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 245.0 20:19:56 <andythenorth> meh 20:19:58 <andythenorth> should be ok 20:20:03 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 20:21:37 <andythenorth> is there any problem with BANDIT disabling default trucks? 20:21:53 <andythenorth> or do I have to make that optional? :P 20:24:52 <andythenorth> hmm 20:25:18 <andythenorth> Yexo: could nml contain a macro or such for 'disable default vehicle [type]' 20:25:19 <andythenorth> ? 20:29:02 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: just leave the busses alone 20:29:32 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: disable_items() 20:29:38 <Eddi|zuHause> or something 20:29:54 <Eddi|zuHause> src/engines.gnml:disable_item(FEAT_TRAINS, 0, 115); 20:30:43 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I'll leave the buses ;) 20:32:12 *** stinkyfax [~stinkyfax@wowmod.eu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:04 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ^^ is that an actual feature, or a suggestion? 20:34:00 <andythenorth> nvm 20:34:01 <andythenorth> found it 20:34:10 * andythenorth learns to tick 'nml' option on wiki search :P 20:34:17 <andythenorth> that helps rather a lot 20:38:25 *** vodka [~paper@41.Red-88-15-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:43:00 <andythenorth> hmm 20:43:09 <andythenorth> disable_item(FEAT_ROADVEHS, 123, 203); 20:43:11 <andythenorth> fails for me 20:43:59 <andythenorth> oh 20:44:02 * andythenorth fixes that 20:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause> need to use the _other_ id :) 20:45:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. 0x07..0x39 (http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VehicleIDs) 20:45:30 <Eddi|zuHause> (or 0x57) 20:50:14 <andythenorth> indeed :) 20:57:52 *** pjpe [ae5b52e7@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:04:37 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 21:14:03 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:25 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:ed8d:5832:265a:d29c] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:32:23 *** TomyLobo2 [~foo@p4FC22B93.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:38:12 *** TomyLobo [~foo@p4FC22379.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:38:13 *** TomyLobo2 is now known as TomyLobo 21:45:51 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 21:47:19 *** Elukka [~Elukka@78-27-84-248.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 21:52:44 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 21:53:24 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:bd2d:766b:b0ec:d2b5] has joined #openttd 21:53:27 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 21:53:59 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:55:32 *** [lan3y] [tom.lane0@5ade4375.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 21:56:33 *** pipfjsdf [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:59:01 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 22:00:07 * andythenorth bed 22:00:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:10:44 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: Sla Mutant Co-Op for Renegade - coming back soon] 22:17:14 <xQR> wow with TrueBrain i have finally found someone who can keep up with my quantity of writing on the forums :D 22:20:33 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:24:06 <Terkhen> he's not always in a writing mood :P 22:25:18 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 22:25:28 <Terkhen> good night 22:25:54 <TrueBrain> haha; very true, I can also be very short :P 22:26:15 *** MagisterQuis1 [~Adium@c-71-206-9-241.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:27:12 <Hyronymus> TrueBrain, planetmaker and Yexo 22:27:21 <Hyronymus> can we join a private channel 22:27:29 <TrueBrain> do you know how to use IRC? :P :D 22:27:35 <Hyronymus> yes, I do 22:27:47 <Hyronymus> want to share some stuff with you guys 22:27:49 <TrueBrain> take the invite :) 22:27:49 <Yexo> make a channel and send some invites 22:28:04 <TrueBrain> Yexo: I just invited him to dev channel :P 22:28:08 <Yexo> fine :) 22:28:17 <TrueBrain> but he doesnt have auto-join-on-invite :P 22:28:23 <planetmaker> :-) 22:30:02 <__ln__> makes me curious what's so secret it needs a private channel 22:30:59 <Chris_Booth> one can only speculate __ln__ 22:31:10 <xQR> i smell conspiracy 22:32:01 *** MagisterQuis [~Adium@c-71-206-9-241.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:33:05 <Chris_Booth> i smell burning 22:33:24 <iddqd> :( 22:34:25 <xQR> ^^ 22:37:03 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:14 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:42:40 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.94.122] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:43:26 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 22:48:42 <TrueBrain> lol; curious people :P 22:54:30 <FLHerne> So what is it? :P 22:55:05 <Yexo> a conspiracy of course! 22:57:28 <frosch123> something about replacing the forums' captcha with some ottd applet. e.g. fix the signalling of this junction to proceed 22:57:39 <FLHerne> Ooh, underground building at last :-) 22:57:51 <FLHerne> Or NewGRF penguins? 23:02:01 <planetmaker> NewGRF ice bears meet NewGRF penguin 23:02:18 <TrueBrain> hmm ... penguins 23:02:23 <TrueBrain> "does this count as annoying?!" 23:03:00 <DorpsGek> /me is bored 23:03:08 <TrueBrain> DorpsGek: again?! 23:03:14 <TrueBrain> and use action 23:03:15 <TrueBrain> not say 23:03:17 <TrueBrain> :P 23:03:17 <supermop> frosch123: that would be great for AI development, as suddenly there is an incentive for spambots to intelligently signal junctions 23:03:18 <Yexo> you must be really bored now ;p 23:03:48 <supermop> thus we co-opt all the effort of the malicious coding industry to improve our game 23:04:11 <TrueBrain> haha, lol @ who used DorpsGek, I did not expect you to say that :) 23:04:16 <TrueBrain> that is, you are not my usual suspect :P 23:08:55 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:19:22 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 23:31:39 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 23:35:32 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 23:41:40 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 23:42:04 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:48:53 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-1-147.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20120104111456]] 23:51:09 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BFE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:18 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:09 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 23:57:28 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest23287 23:57:28 *** Guest23287 [~frank@p5DDFDAC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:57:28 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDAC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:57:38 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]