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00:02:39 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 00:07:44 *** Rezt [~Rezt@81-178-198-172.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 00:12:54 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:14:16 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 00:18:52 <Eddi|zuHause> so... did $someone profile nml yet? 00:20:39 *** Rezt [~Rezt@81-178-198-172.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 00:22:14 <Yexo> a big part of the time is spend in compressing real sprites 00:24:31 <frosch123> like > 50% 00:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause> we need nmlcache :p 00:26:42 <Eddi|zuHause> at least the realsprites, which don't change 99% of the time... 00:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and grfcodec can compress the sprites in 2 seconds... 00:29:25 <Eddi|zuHause> > time grfcodec -e -p1 cets.grf 00:29:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Sprite80646 Done: 99% Compressed: 39% (Transparency:100%, Redundancy: 35%) 00:29:29 <Eddi|zuHause> user 0m2.086s 00:30:53 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:30:56 <welshdragon> is openttd.org down? 00:31:07 <Rubidium> welshdragon: no 00:31:15 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:31:16 <Eddi|zuHause> can we do nfo-output and pipe that through grfcodec? 00:31:48 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: sure 00:31:55 <Yexo> you'll get a slightly worse compression 00:34:44 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 00:37:21 <Eddi|zuHause> still not really fast 00:38:07 <Yexo> I know 00:38:34 <Yexo> haven't found a good way to profile nml though, so it's been hard to figure out where the slowness comes from 00:39:37 <welshdragon> can Giant Screenshot be disabled? I've just killed my map I've been working on 00:39:56 <Eddi|zuHause> just waaaaait... :) 00:40:24 <Eddi|zuHause> we could make a confirmation box like when selling all vehicles and stuff 00:40:49 <welshdragon> why does it kill OpenTTD 00:40:51 <welshdragon> ? 00:41:16 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it just locks up until it's done 00:41:39 <Eddi|zuHause> (maybe it can be threaded?) 00:42:16 <welshdragon> eugh 00:42:32 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Out of interest, what's the reason to have all track sets as separate entries in the CETS RTT instead of using the fallback mechanism? 00:42:33 <welshdragon> so it could be hours before it's completed? :( 00:43:04 *** vodka [~paper@41.Red-88-15-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 00:43:34 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: it felt easier to generate this way 00:44:02 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: i mean composing the tracktypeXY identifiers 00:45:17 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: it could probably compressed somewhat with using #defines 00:45:40 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it'd be pretty difficult to do that as you'd be calling the drawing methods from two threads which might easily cause artefacts 00:46:30 <Rubidium> and then I'm talking about the 'easy' case where you use a bootstrap-esque window to show the progress, i.e. without a background of vehicles 00:46:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: hm, so the drawing functions need to get de-globalised? 00:47:07 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that, and sprite loading, possibly blitting 00:47:27 <michi_cc> Where's the difference between using "tracktype_certs%s%s%s :\n'%(track_type[1], track_type[0], track_type[4])" or "tracktype_dbrails%s%s%s :\n'%(track_type[2], track_type[0], track_type[4]))" instead of having whatever tracktype_certs??? evaluates to have the matching tracktype_dbrails??? has fallback? 00:47:43 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-20-188.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 00:47:44 <michi_cc> Then you wouldn't need all that runtime querying for each engine. 00:48:10 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: the nutrack railtypes are kinda orthogonal to that, so it won't work for them 00:49:27 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 00:50:18 <Eddi|zuHause> there's not much "runtime querying". the track set is calculated once and stored in a parameter, the railtype property is calculated once during the loading stage for each engine, the only "runtime" decision is checking the parameter in CB23 (purchase list text) 00:50:36 <michi_cc> Okay, you're right with that. Still, the DBrails case could be done with RTT fallback. 00:51:11 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: yes, but then i lose the ability to display dbrails-specific text 00:51:54 <Eddi|zuHause> which is kind of a micro-feature, but i see no harm in that 00:51:58 <michi_cc> Do we really need that? Maybe mb will also adapt the proposed TC** scheme :p 00:52:14 <Eddi|zuHause> one has hopes and dreams, right? :p 00:52:29 <Rubidium> will he release? 00:52:47 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-120-89.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> he has the 12.12.12 left :) 00:54:59 <michi_cc> One interesting (vapour) feature is the variable loading weight of wagons depending on track class (if it really will be in 0.9, that is). I don't really know how to sanely handle a wagon driving from heavy track to light track though, otherwise it would be quite nice to have. 00:56:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i think he said he won't implement that 00:57:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still thinking of a way to sanely implement that in CETS 00:58:42 <Eddi|zuHause> my idea was providing one wagon each with light/medium/heavy load, and even empty wagons can only run on the high track class. alternative would be to severely limit speed if overloaded 00:59:15 <michi_cc> Either a big running cost penalty or better a speed penalty. The only problem with that is that ideally YAPF would know that and apply penalties for too light track. 00:59:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see how to sanely do that 01:00:20 <frosch123> night 01:00:23 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590d5e1a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:31 <Eddi|zuHause> need a tracktype penalty callback 01:00:42 <Eddi|zuHause> /property 01:00:50 <Snail_> is it possible at all? I think we can't change the vehicles' speed according to the railtype they're traveling on 01:01:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail_: speed limit can be adjusted with cb36 01:01:10 <michi_cc> Maybe do the light/medium/heavy load via (auto-)refit, but that would require CB changeable track type. 01:01:12 <Snail_> coz speed, unlike TE, is cached so it can be changed only at certain times (depot visit, stop at station, etc) 01:01:39 <michi_cc> Snail_: CB36 for speed will be called if the vehicle enters a tile with a new railtype. 01:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail_: i think railtype change is such a time 01:02:02 <Snail_> well, I tried to do a test about this 01:02:20 <Snail_> I tried to change the speed through property depending on the railtype 01:02:48 <Snail_> and my engines didn't change speed when crossing a different railtype tile.. they only changed it after reversing, depot visit etc 01:03:10 <Eddi|zuHause> a test grf for that case would be nice 01:04:55 <Snail_> I could make one, but that would work with my new tracks... 01:05:31 <Snail_> anyway I talked to MB about this and he told me that speed is cached, and entering new railtype tile doesn't enforce it to be reset 01:05:38 <Snail_> unlike TE (with TE, this works well) 01:05:38 <michi_cc> Snail_: Looking at the source code I see that this is done when the lead engine enters the new railtype, so you have to query the railtype if the engine via parent scope and not use the current vehicle. 01:06:05 <Snail_> but what if I code this for the engine itself? 01:06:34 <Snail_> I coded my engines so that their speed would be limited if they entered rackrail tracks, but it didn't work 01:07:22 <michi_cc> Hmm, but doing it for the wagon should still work, the whole chain is updated when any part changes railtype. 01:07:48 <michi_cc> Snail_: OpenTTD source looks correct at first sight to me, so it might be a bug in your test code. 01:08:07 <Snail_> hmm 01:08:14 <Snail_> ok, I can provide you with the *.GRF with this 01:08:22 <michi_cc> Can you paste the apporpriate CB36 source code? 01:08:24 <Snail_> but I also have to include my tracks :p 01:08:48 <Snail_> ok, I'll do it... wait a sec, I'll write it in m4nfo and then translate to NFO 01:09:09 <michi_cc> Maybe m4nfo has a bug :p 01:12:08 <Snail_> ok, I can paste the code that (1) checks for the railtype, (2) limits the speed if the railtype is of a certain type, and (3) sets this property for the engine's callback 01:12:14 <Snail_> / Test for rackrail: limit speed 01:12:15 <Snail_> 11364 * 0 02 00 03 81 4A 00 FF 01 01:12:15 <Snail_> 0a 80 07 07 01:12:15 <Snail_> 00 00 01:12:16 <Snail_> 01:12:16 <Snail_> / properties 01:12:17 <Snail_> 11365 * 0 02 00 04 81 10 00 FF 03 01:12:18 <Snail_> 02 00 1f 1f 01:12:18 <Snail_> 03 00 09 09 01:12:20 <Snail_> 00 80 14 14 01:12:20 <Snail_> 00 00 01:12:22 <Snail_> 01:12:22 <Snail_> / End of test for rackrail 01:12:24 <appe_> http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/388469_233794293361287_126894987384552_540683_918798473_n.jpg 01:12:24 <Snail_> / callbacks 01:12:24 <Snail_> 11366 * 0 02 00 13 85 0C 00 FF FF 02 01:12:26 <Snail_> / ref(1) if(CB_TSFX) // text 01:12:26 <Snail_> 04 00 36 00 36 00 // no capacity 01:12:28 <Snail_> cf 00 2d 00 2d 00 // switch lights 01:12:28 <Snail_> 00 00 // graphics 01:12:30 <Snail_> 01:12:43 <Eddi|zuHause> don't paste in IRC 01:12:46 <glx> use a paste service 01:12:49 <Snail_> oops 01:13:41 <Snail_> is this ok? http://paste.bradleygill.com/index.php?paste_id=349923 01:13:55 <Snail_> sorry, I'm not much of an IRC expert :) 01:14:55 <Snail_> the line I commented as "no capacity" in the end is the one that collects the property reducing speed when on rackrail tracks 01:16:57 <Yexo> can you also show us your railtype table? 01:17:02 <Eddi|zuHause> is the engine already on the new tile when the callback is run? 01:17:43 <Yexo> to test that send the vehicle to a rackrail depot and out again, the callback is run again in that case and it must be onthe rackrail railtype 01:18:29 <Eddi|zuHause> he said earlier that it worked in depot etc. 01:19:08 <Yexo> aha, I had missed that 01:19:15 <Snail_> Yexo: yes, the railtype for rack is called NRAN ( {N}arrow gauge, {R}ackrail speed, axle weight {A}, {N}o electrification ) 01:19:27 <Snail_> yes, when it gets out of a depot it works 01:20:06 <Snail_> but if I buy it in a non-rackrail depot and start it, and send it on a track that is non-rackrail until a certain point, and rackrail beyond that point, the engine won't slow down when hitting the first rackrail tile 01:20:30 <Eddi|zuHause> what if you have a track like <normal><rackrail><normal>? 01:20:51 <Snail_> mind you, when it reaches the end of the track (which is a rackrail tile) and reverses to come back, the slower speed limit is enforced 01:21:22 <Snail_> Eddi|zuHause: in that case, it will go through the rackrail part at the normal speed, then it reaches the normal track again, and continues with the same speed 01:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but, TE should be cached the same way as speed, or not? 01:24:19 <Snail_> I don't think so. I'm no expert, but I asked MB and he told me it's not the case 01:24:28 <Snail_> TE is not cached, but always computed 01:25:22 <Yexo> <michi_cc> Snail_: OpenTTD source looks correct at first sight to me, so it might be a bug in your test code. <- can you give me a pointer? 01:25:25 <Yexo> I can't find the right code 01:25:41 <Yexo> speed is updated by Train::ConsistChanged, but that doesn't seem to be called (not even indirectly) when entering a new tile 01:26:10 <Snail_> Yexo: ok, do you need all the NFO that codes the engine I'm testing this on? 01:26:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: i'd search for the compatible/powered calculation 01:26:40 <Yexo> Snail_: no, I just wanted to have a quick look at the openttd code 01:27:11 <michi_cc> Yexo: I think you're right. It updates the max track speed, but not the vehicle speed. 01:27:52 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@on6.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Farting around] 01:27:56 <Eddi|zuHause> void Train::RailtypeChanged() <-- i think it should be added there 01:28:09 <Eddi|zuHause> there's only this->PowerChanged(); 01:28:12 <Yexo> it might actually be intentional that it doesn't work for speed 01:28:14 <michi_cc> I guess we should call ConsistChange insead of PowerChange then. 01:28:23 <Yexo> if speed was set to 0 on a new railtype, things would break pretty badly 01:29:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: speed is clamped to 1 01:29:23 <Eddi|zuHause> or, should be :p 01:29:35 <Yexo> ^^ probably that :p 01:29:49 <Snail_> perhaps it's like this not to be too much CPU-intensive? otherwise, if it were always recomputed, there would be *lots* of recalculations all the time... i.e. whenever any train enters a new tile... 01:30:02 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:30:10 <Yexo> it only has to recalculate if a vehicle enters a new tile with another rail type 01:30:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail_: no, only when entering a new railtype 01:30:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail_: and at that point, lots of other things need calculation anyway, so the effect won't be that big 01:30:40 <Snail_> oh, ok 01:31:39 <Yexo> good night 01:31:44 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: does ConsistChanged do anything that is dangerous outside a depot? 01:31:45 <michi_cc> Yexo: From looking at blame output the power changed is basically a remains from the elrails merge. It was always just PowerChanged from then on. 01:32:04 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Yes, but it has a parameter to error for length changed. 01:32:16 <Eddi|zuHause> so it was just forgotten in railtypes... 01:32:56 <Yexo> not perse, IIRC the "current railtype var" was a later addition 01:33:30 <Yexo> before that addition there was no use for redoing the speed callback 01:33:32 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@on6.co.uk] has joined #openttd 01:34:23 <michi_cc> Yes, but I think ConsistChanged can be used for that. It's also called when reversing for example, so I guess nothing would break. 01:34:27 <Yexo> @commit 20165 01:34:27 <DorpsGek> Yexo: Commit by michi_cc :: r20165 /trunk/src (newgrf_engine.cpp newgrf_railtype.cpp) (2010-07-16 19:02:59 UTC) 01:34:28 <DorpsGek> Yexo: -Feature: [NewGRF] Information (var 4A) about the current railtype a train is on. 01:35:04 <Yexo> michi_cc: I guess you're right 01:35:21 <Eddi|zuHause> issue solved. moving on :) 01:35:33 <Yexo> 18 months and only now the first bug report 01:35:51 <Snail_> :D 01:35:53 <Snail_> you me 01:36:01 <Snail_> you mean it will be solved in the next nightly? 01:36:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not commited yet 01:36:37 <Yexo> not by me, I'm really off to bed now 01:36:47 <Snail_> Yexo: good night :) 01:36:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but "there exists a solution" is already enough for me :) 01:38:09 <Snail_> ok, so I'll be on the lookout for a nightly that solves this ;) 01:38:33 <michi_cc> The only thing I'm a bit skeptical about is that ConsistChanged also updates the cargo capacity. But nobody complained yet about trains changing capacity on reversing, so I guess that's okay :) 01:39:04 <Eddi|zuHause> does it throw away the surplus cargo? 01:40:13 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone fancy implementing ctrl+flip for articulated vehicles? :) 01:40:16 <Snail_> michi_cc: meaning that, if you code wagons with different capacities across different railtypes, they might lose cargo if mving from heavy tracks to light tracks/ 01:40:46 <Snail_> Eddi|zuHause: it might be cool, but only for certain vehicles 01:41:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail_: that's probably a very silly idea to change capacity :p 01:41:02 <Snail_> i.e. it would be great for certain MUs, not for steamers with tenders ;) 01:41:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail_: well, the newgrf controls which vehicles can be flipped 01:41:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail_: and some steamers were designed to run equally fast in both directions. like BR 50 01:42:33 <Eddi|zuHause> BR 50 was a "light" engine for branch line use, and generally too large for many turntables 01:42:37 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: It doesn't, but like I said, you could already mess with it on reversing, which is why I'm not that worried. 01:43:29 <michi_cc> In theory the speed update could be split, but then there's simply some other property than isn't updated but should. 01:44:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, should probably just tell the newgrf coders "better not change <XYZ> outside depot" 01:44:43 <Elukka> some steamers also ran on push-pull trains which made reverse speed pretty important 01:44:57 <Snail_> Eddi|zuHause: then I'd like articulated vehicles to be flippable. In fact one of my DMUs would benefit from this :D 01:45:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: those are usually ones that have builtin tenders 01:46:11 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@on6.co.uk] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 01:46:18 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@on6.co.uk] has joined #openttd 01:49:02 <Snail_> yep those were the tank engines. They can be flippable already 01:49:14 <Elukka> http://www.philobiblon.com/upload/23_wendezug.jpg 01:49:15 <Elukka> http://www.philobiblon.com/upload/DampfWendezugP8.jpg 01:49:24 <Elukka> assuming i understand the term 'wendezug' right and they're titled correctly... 01:49:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail_: well, not mine :p 01:50:01 *** namad8 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:50:27 <Elukka> well, that br 23 certainly seems to be pushing judging from the smoke 01:50:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: that was already very late, 1960s or so 01:51:03 <Elukka> yeah 01:51:07 <appe_> so tired. 01:51:11 <appe_> zup guys. 01:51:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: and the P8 has a "wannentender" from the war-time BR 52 (which is derived from the above mentioned BR 50) 01:52:05 <Elukka> yeah, the tender really doesn't fit it :P 01:52:07 <Elukka> (visually i mean) 01:55:54 <Eddi|zuHause> well, DB quickly scrapped the inferior-material 52's, but reused the tenders elsewhere 01:56:00 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:56:53 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/20091129160642_091128preuischep8006.jpg 01:56:58 <Eddi|zuHause> DR, however, used them quite long, because they couldn't get replacements 01:57:00 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.87.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:57:05 <Elukka> i think it's one of the prettier steamers, particularly with the original tender 01:58:05 *** namad8 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:58:18 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDAC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:58:23 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDAC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:58:32 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-182-224.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:59:57 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-052-021.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 02:02:44 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 02:02:51 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-052-021.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 02:08:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: anyway what i meant to say, the tender is already specially crafted for backwards travel 02:08:55 <Eddi|zuHause> where "fast" is like 90km/h 02:09:27 <Eddi|zuHause> which is "ok" for a generic passenger train 02:10:09 <Eddi|zuHause> a P8 with original tender wouldn't be able to go that fast backwards 02:10:45 <Elukka> i've heard that, but what feature of a tender enables a locomotive to go fast backwards? 02:12:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess the connection to the engine. and the BR 50/52 tenders had a wind shield on the sides 02:13:59 <Eddi|zuHause> the engine-tender connection is usually made in a way so the tender pulls down the engine (to get more adhesive weight). while going backwards, the engine may not push up the tender 02:14:07 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise it might jump off the tracks 02:14:56 <Elukka> hmm. makes sense 02:15:24 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 02:15:35 <Eddi|zuHause> this is not a design goal if you're only going 40km/h backwards 02:17:00 <Eddi|zuHause> a related issue is getting steering cars for express trains like modern IC or the ICE2 02:18:50 <Eddi|zuHause> to this day the ICE2 may not go top speed with steering car in front when there are high winds 02:22:25 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 02:33:19 <Elukka> interesting 03:06:29 <Wolf01> 'night all 03:06:32 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 03:12:02 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-d9ba40dc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 03:23:01 *** vodka [~paper@41.Red-88-15-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:25:00 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-d9ba40dc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:00 *** MagisterQuis [~Adium@c-71-206-9-241.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 03:35:48 *** MagisterQuis1 [~Adium@c-71-206-9-241.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:42:24 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 04:00:13 *** TomyLobo [~foo@p4FC22B93.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 04:25:43 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-20-188.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:00:03 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:bd2d:766b:b0ec:d2b5] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:26:50 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFDAC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73BC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:26 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75E23.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:26:31 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 07:34:35 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:35:40 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #openttd [] 07:36:13 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 07:48:55 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 07:57:23 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:04:35 <andythenorth> hola 08:14:50 <peter1138> huups 08:20:42 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B901.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:41:52 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23772 /trunk/src/lang/latvian.txt: -Fix (r23771): validation failure 08:42:06 *** peter1138 [~petern@lachesis.fuzzle.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:42:08 *** peter1138 [~petern@lachesis.fuzzle.org] has joined #openttd 08:42:11 *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ 08:46:37 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-prvbrasgw1-fe05dc00-37.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:06:25 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:09:08 <Terkhen> good morning 09:11:41 <andythenorth> bonjour 09:15:48 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 09:17:04 <andythenorth> does anyone play with 'vehicles never expire' *off*? 09:17:10 *** MagisterQuis [~Adium@c-71-206-9-241.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:25:59 <SmatZ> andythenorth: those who play with default settings, I guess :) 09:26:05 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-028-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 09:29:23 <V453000> is that still as default? :o 09:29:28 <V453000> also hi SmatZ :) 09:29:46 * andythenorth is wondering how much effort to put into keeping a short buy menu 09:29:47 <SmatZ> hello V453000 :-) 09:30:15 <andythenorth> if I try and keep the menu short, but everyone has 'vehicles never expire'....kind of pointless :P 09:30:25 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:30:31 <V453000> hehe andy :) 09:31:53 <V453000> well you could put sort the vehicle ID by date of release of the vehicle, or by the "usefulness" of the vehicle so people buy the first few in the top of the list 09:32:05 <V453000> but I personally like more to sort by vehicle type 09:32:17 <V453000> like all passenger trains together, etc 09:32:42 <V453000> and since there are all the filters, one can always sort it his way and choose from the top I guess 09:34:35 *** LSky` [~x@82-169-93-67.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 09:34:41 <LSky`> sup 09:35:08 <LSky`> if anyone with knowledge of servers is around, 09:35:38 <LSky`> im trying to run a 1.1.4 dedicated server, but its not receiving a session key from the master server, no errors, it just doesnt advertise at all 09:35:48 <LSky`> th 1.2.0-beta2 server works fine, no issues 09:35:57 <Rubidium> 99% chance your firewall blocks stuff 09:36:08 <LSky`> that would get the error 09:36:09 <LSky`> i solved that 09:36:26 <LSky`> i forward both 3979 for 1.1.4 and 3980 for 1.2.0 09:36:36 <LSky`> the 1.2.0 works great, even if I change the port to 3979 09:36:55 <Rubidium> works fine with my 1.1.4 09:37:04 <LSky`> yeah, hence I wondered what the issue was 09:37:14 <LSky`> it doesnt say that its unable to receive the key 09:37:21 <LSky`> it seems like its not even asking for one 09:37:28 <LSky`> when I clearly enable advertising 09:37:36 <SpComb> tcpdump? 09:38:50 <LSky`> i hate to say this but 09:38:52 <LSky`> how do I do that :D 09:39:11 <SpComb> sudo tcpdump -f 'host <masterserver>' 09:39:19 <LSky`> running it on windows 09:39:23 <SpComb> orly 09:39:26 <LSky`> quite 09:40:10 <SpComb> if you're desperate, install wireshark and try there 09:40:27 <SpComb> it'll tell you if you're even sending anything out, or seeing any UDP back 09:40:42 <SpComb> not that I know what your actual issue is 09:41:06 <LSky`> well i just double checked the port 09:41:20 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:41:23 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:41:26 <LSky`> it also works with the 1.2.0-beta2 server if I change it back to 3979 there 09:41:30 <LSky`> so its not a firewall issue 09:42:35 <LSky`> the odd thing is, it get queried 09:42:57 <LSky`> but not very often 09:43:48 <LSky`> actually now Icheck it, it does actually get queried just as much as the other server :\ 09:45:29 <LSky`> it gets queried but it doesnt show up in the list... :| 09:45:32 <LSky`> now thats weird 09:47:33 <SpComb> are you looking in the right place in the list? :) 09:48:00 <LSky`> the server list on the site and in the server browser 09:48:20 <LSky`> but im not surprised that it doesnt show up, no messages that its being advertised show up in that server's console 09:50:06 <LSky`> i got wireshark working, looking at the traffic now, what should I be looking for? 09:50:17 <SpComb> dunno, UDP to/from master server? 09:51:49 <LSky`> well I guess it somehow works 09:51:58 <LSky`> since someone just connected the instant I put it up 09:52:19 <LSky`> yet it doesnt advertise again, what is this i dont even :( 09:53:22 <LSky`> haha okay im an idiot 09:53:23 <LSky`> -_- 09:53:37 <LSky`> problem solved :D 09:54:06 <LSky`> i think.. 09:59:41 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 10:01:03 <LSky`> yeah, its just ignoring the cfg file 10:02:56 <LSky`> "...\OpenTTD 1.1.4\openttd.exe" -D -c 114.cfg as a shortcut should work right? 10:06:41 <planetmaker> moin 10:10:09 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 10:12:01 <LSky`> Also, "You have a newer version of OpenTTD, Setup will now exit" fffffffffff 10:13:48 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-d9ba40dc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:20:41 *** pipfjsdf [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:21:47 *** DDR_ [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 10:32:36 *** Elukka [~Elukka@78-27-84-248.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 10:33:54 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-5-205.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:35:13 <SpComb> LSky`: just use the .zip's 10:35:25 <LSky`> I did, unfortunately a reinstall didnt work 10:35:48 <LSky`> I thought I did something wrong with pointing it to the right cfg, but for some reason it wont do what I want it do :D 10:36:15 <LSky`> it just, doesnt use a config at all 10:36:32 <Alberth> the readme explains in great detail how the cfg file is found 10:37:57 <LSky`> which is why i asked; "...\OpenTTD 1.1.4\openttd.exe" -D -c 114.cfg as a shortcut should work right? 10:38:02 <Yexo> LSky`: if you point it to a location where it isn't allowed to write a file, it can't make a new config file 10:38:22 <Yexo> LSky`: whether or not that works depends on what the working directory is when you execute that link, and also where the config file is 10:38:57 <LSky`> so it doesnt automatically search for the config file in the normal folder? 10:39:21 <Yexo> which "normal folder"? 10:39:24 <LSky`> `> I thought I did something wrong with pointing it to the right cfg, but for some reason it wont do what I want it do :D 10:39:25 <LSky`> [11:32:am] <LSky`> it 10:39:28 <LSky`> woops 10:39:30 <Yexo> as Alberth already said: see readme.txt 10:39:33 <LSky`> C:\Users\LSky\Documents\OpenTTD 10:39:43 <Yexo> unless that is the working directory, no 10:40:04 <Yexo> use -c C:\Users\LSky\Documents\OpenTTD4.cfg to have it use that file 10:40:46 <andythenorth> ow 10:40:50 * andythenorth has brain ache 10:41:07 <LSky`> thanks, that did actually work 10:41:27 <LSky`> which only makes me wonder why the 1.2.0-beta2 server works without specifying the folder 10:41:37 <andythenorth> multi-trailer trucks, number of trailers refittable by cargo subtype abuse 10:41:47 <andythenorth> first trailer capacity might be split with truck 10:41:48 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFD15F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:42:11 <andythenorth> ^ try templating that efficiently :P 10:50:25 <Alberth> m4 supports computations and conditional inclusion of text 10:51:01 <andythenorth> m4 is not nml :P 10:51:05 <andythenorth> afaik 10:51:36 <andythenorth> also... 10:51:44 * andythenorth waves and points at rv-wagons 10:52:48 <Alberth> cpp is also not nml :) 10:54:00 <andythenorth> +1 10:54:51 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:05:19 * andythenorth figures it out. maybe 11:07:51 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 11:08:22 * Alberth has full confidence in andy 11:10:03 * andythenorth might be about to learn about IDs in nml the hard way :P 11:10:45 <andythenorth> if I wasn't obsessed about having my CPP includes in alphabetical order, life would be easier :/ 11:11:47 <planetmaker> lol 11:12:06 <planetmaker> andythenorth, just prefix them with 001_myname and 015_anothername etc 11:12:11 <planetmaker> then all is in good order ;-) 11:12:25 <andythenorth> valid 11:12:26 <andythenorth> :P 11:12:40 <andythenorth> or I should deliberately disorder them now 11:12:46 <andythenorth> removing temptation to try and keep them ordered 11:21:30 <Alberth> only local order? 11:22:17 <andythenorth> ? 11:23:12 <Alberth> if I include A, B, and C, and A includes E, then the order of processing in A E B C which is not alphabetical 11:24:40 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:25:12 <Alberth> Justkidding!! /me hugs andythenorth 11:25:17 <andythenorth> :) 11:25:31 *** dageek [~dageek@host217-36-231-239.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #openttd 11:26:35 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:28:12 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-21-91.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:31:28 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111221202647]] 11:34:31 *** DDR_ [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:44:31 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-052-021.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 11:50:47 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFD15F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:58 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:52:24 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-79-110.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:56:06 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFD15F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:57:08 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-35-73.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:57:23 <andythenorth> does nml automatically take care of splitting a cb for the buy menu chain? 11:58:09 <planetmaker> no. But each CB should have a purchase version 11:58:24 <planetmaker> if you don't define that one, though, the normal CB is used 11:58:27 <andythenorth> thanks 12:01:37 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.87.68] has joined #openttd 12:04:37 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f607f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:20:35 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 12:27:53 <frosch123> so, who has a big endian machine and can make a screenshot using a 32bpp blitter? 12:31:04 <andythenorth> core 2 duo is little endian? 12:31:22 * andythenorth google for self 12:31:58 <frosch123> all intel stuff uses le 12:32:35 <planetmaker> __ln__, could do on his G4 12:39:59 <TrueBrain> basically, only old computers are BE :P 12:40:32 <frosch123> BE is like using decimal number representation in the cpui 12:40:43 <frosch123> -i 12:40:53 * andythenorth used to be big endian 12:44:09 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-d9ba40dc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:33 <__ln__> afaik Wii, PS3 and Xbox360 are BE 12:47:56 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23773 /trunk/src/ (rail_cmd.cpp saveload/vehicle_sl.cpp train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Change: [NewGRF] Update all cached train properties if a train vehicle enters a new railtype. 12:55:01 <frosch123> hmm, would a "newgrf suggestion forum" be fun? :p 12:55:18 <TrueBrain> fun, yes 12:55:20 <TrueBrain> useful .. not sure :P 12:55:29 <andythenorth> suggestions for newgrfs? 12:55:38 <andythenorth> or suggestions for newgrf spec features? :P 12:55:45 <frosch123> the former of course 12:56:07 <frosch123> there is a suggestions forum in the ottd and ttdp section, but not in the graphics section 12:56:12 <andythenorth> can it be hidden from my view? 12:56:25 <andythenorth> maybe a browser plugin could do that :P 12:56:31 <frosch123> you mean that would increase the usefulness? 12:56:35 <andythenorth> yes 12:56:37 <andythenorth> greatly 12:56:49 <frosch123> TrueBrain: see, it has use 12:57:51 <TrueBrain> there is a use in the hiding of the use 12:57:53 <TrueBrain> hmmm 12:57:55 <TrueBrain> this is getting tricky :P 12:58:07 <frosch123> it's like a spam filter 12:58:17 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 12:58:31 <Wolf01> hi o/ 13:01:59 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:04:08 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:05:05 <andythenorth> there's nothing so fun as figuring out why the buy menu reports wrong capacity :P 13:09:49 *** TomyLobo [~foo@p549462CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:09:56 <Eddi|zuHause> we need step-by-step callback debugging 13:10:35 <andythenorth> position in consist can't be evaluated during buy menu, yes/no? 13:10:43 <andythenorth> also cargo subtype 13:12:02 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:12:42 <Eddi|zuHause> none of the 40+/80+ variables 13:12:54 <andythenorth> I just solved this in HEQS, can't remember how :D 13:13:07 * andythenorth rummages 13:13:52 <Eddi|zuHause> make front and tail different IDs, and report all capacity in the front 13:14:10 <andythenorth> yup 13:14:18 <andythenorth> or fake it on the trailers for buy menu switch 13:14:32 <andythenorth> either way, fake it :P 13:15:31 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: are you sure that is useful with nml? 13:16:50 * andythenorth fakes it 13:17:28 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i don't understand the question 13:17:45 <frosch123> the step-by-step debugging 13:17:57 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-028-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 13:18:32 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: need debugging symbols in nml :p 13:19:53 * andythenorth needs a code generator :P 13:19:59 <andythenorth> or maybe not :) 13:21:20 <andythenorth> hmm 13:21:53 <andythenorth> how do I know when I'm abstracting too far with CPP? 13:21:58 <Eddi|zuHause> nml has at least 3 code generators builtin 13:22:10 <andythenorth> if you have to open > n templates to find the actual code, it's too many 13:22:12 <andythenorth> what's n? 13:22:23 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c048:7694:5624:7ccb] has joined #openttd 13:22:26 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:22:44 * andythenorth thinks n = 2 13:22:48 <Eddi|zuHause> just make it for arbitrary numbers, and then every n is just a special case 13:22:49 <Alberth> 7 ? (that's the number of things a human can manage to do at the same time) 13:25:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i currently have tracking table -> generate.py -> processing.py -> write.py -> tree.py -> vehicle template -> alignment template -> png file 13:26:08 <Eddi|zuHause> occasionally also a custom callbacks file 13:26:24 * andythenorth might do evil with #ifdef 13:26:57 <Eddi|zuHause> that's really the least evil i do :p 13:27:13 <Alberth> it is evil by definition, almost :) 13:27:30 <andythenorth> can cpp evaluate a value? 13:27:38 <Eddi|zuHause> no 13:27:41 <andythenorth> e.g. if #define NUM_TRAILERS 2 13:27:42 <andythenorth> :P 13:27:44 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why we have nml 13:27:49 <Alberth> yes, but only for internal use :) 13:28:46 * andythenorth could concatenate paths 13:28:46 * Alberth refrains from recommending a different macro expansion engine 13:28:47 <andythenorth> more evil 13:28:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it can only evaluate plain constants, not do any calculations 13:29:16 <andythenorth> might work fine 13:29:28 <andythenorth> otherwise I have #define NUM_TRAILERS_IS_1 True 13:29:29 <andythenorth> etc 13:30:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you can do: 13:30:28 <Eddi|zuHause> #define NUM_TRAILERS 2 13:30:37 <Eddi|zuHause> #if NUM_TRAILERS == 1 13:30:45 <andythenorth> k 13:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> #elsif NUM_TRAILERS == 2 13:30:47 <andythenorth> thanks 13:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> or similar 13:33:45 <andythenorth> works 13:34:59 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.144.66] has joined #openttd 13:35:08 <andythenorth> if I was really smart I'd switch in nml :P 13:35:26 <andythenorth> instead of relying on hardcoded things 13:38:29 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 13:40:15 <TrueBrain> so the question is: are you? :P 13:41:30 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 14:32:03 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:33:16 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-d9ba40dc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:34:23 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:43:46 *** dageek [~dageek@host217-36-231-239.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Quit: dageek] 14:46:42 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23774 /trunk/readme.txt: -Fix: Wrong path in readme.txt 14:52:49 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@vpn96.ext.espci.fr] has joined #openttd 14:53:53 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-d9ba40dc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:18 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 14:57:33 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:09:16 *** Mark [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC] 15:09:16 *** Markk is now known as Mark 15:10:38 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:15:11 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 15:15:29 *** Fixer [~Fixer@91.202.128.79] has joined #openttd 15:16:56 <Fixer> ohi, i need some info on STR_GOAL_QUESTION_BUTTON_SURRENDER(etc), don't know how to translate it, can somebody explain what is the meaning of that STR_GOAL_QUESTION_BUTTON form? 15:18:00 <Yexo> goal scripts can open a window with question 15:18:19 <Yexo> the goal script can chose up to 3 pre-defined buttons to add to that window 15:18:20 <Fixer> question to the player? 15:18:23 <Yexo> yes 15:18:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Fixer: a game script can ask the player a question, like: "your mission would be to infiltrate the casino: [Accept], [Deny Existence], [Self destruct]" 15:18:29 <Yexo> can be anything 15:18:48 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, the button text is pre-defined 15:18:52 <Fixer> oh ok! 15:18:53 <Yexo> can also be a simpel message, like "You've reached part 1 out of 3. [ok], [cancel]" 15:19:25 <Fixer> SURRENDER is pre-defined message 15:19:30 <planetmaker> yes 15:19:34 <Fixer> ok thanks 15:19:37 <planetmaker> it's one of the possible buttons 15:19:47 <Yexo> some of the others might be hard to translate 15:19:52 <planetmaker> indeed 15:19:57 *** vodka [~paper@41.Red-88-15-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 15:20:31 <planetmaker> I was quite struggling with some. "next" is quite ambiguous. As is previous etc 15:20:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Yes/No/FileNotFound 15:20:46 <Fixer> yeah :D 15:20:47 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@vpn96.ext.espci.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:21:03 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: "weiter"/"zurÃŒck"? 15:21:14 <Fixer> or Go 15:22:32 <planetmaker> maybe, Eddi|zuHause 15:22:33 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is, for translation you need context, and the context is given by the game scripts, which may not be written yet 15:22:40 <planetmaker> exactly 15:22:47 <michi_cc> For some of these button texts it might make sense to look at what your OS generally uses for them. 15:30:06 <Fixer> struggling with 'go' 15:30:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Fixer: what's on the monopoly board? 15:34:17 <frosch123> "go" as in "let's go" 15:34:53 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-5-205.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:35:02 <Fixer> ok 15:36:47 *** Fixer [~Fixer@91.202.128.79] has left #openttd [] 15:36:59 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.87.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:38:20 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.196.116] has joined #openttd 15:49:54 *** [1]Mark [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:49:54 *** Mark is now known as Guest23340 15:49:55 *** [1]Mark is now known as Mark 15:58:00 *** vodka [~paper@41.Red-88-15-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:27 <andythenorth> nml is pretty epic 16:00:37 <andythenorth> what's truly epic about it though is the documentation 16:02:17 <planetmaker> I hope that was not ironic ;-) 16:02:30 <andythenorth> nope 16:02:32 *** LSky` [~x@82-169-93-67.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:03:37 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-5-205.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:04:15 <supermop_> what are you doing in nml today, andy? 16:04:38 <frosch123> robbing and thiefing 16:05:19 <andythenorth> yup 16:05:28 <andythenorth> meh 16:05:40 * andythenorth just saw a flaw in a beautiful plan :/ 16:06:01 <planetmaker> throw enough beautiful sprites on it so that the flaw will be hidden ;-) 16:06:07 <andythenorth> if I have a vehicle with 1 trailer, I want a subtype refit string "No trailer" 16:06:23 <andythenorth> and if a vehicle has 2 trailers, I want a subtype string "No trailers" 16:06:29 <andythenorth> which I've just coded :P 16:06:39 <planetmaker> yes? 16:06:51 <andythenorth> breaks refitting 16:06:58 <andythenorth> when using auto-replace 16:07:07 <andythenorth> probably 16:07:15 <andythenorth> haven't tested yet :P 16:07:31 <planetmaker> if it's different vehicles I don't see how it breaks 16:07:31 <andythenorth> might be ok because it's first refittable type 16:08:13 <supermop_> no trailer, singular still makes sense for a vehicle that normally has 2 16:08:15 <Hirundo> As long as its both subtype X, the string doesn't matter methinks 16:08:24 <andythenorth> hmm 16:08:34 <andythenorth> frosch123: what got fixed recently with auto-replace and subtypes? 16:08:54 <supermop_> a truck with no trailer has no trailer regardless of what its has at other times 16:09:24 <andythenorth> supermop_: yes, but it's nicer with the optional s 16:09:38 <andythenorth> :) 16:10:13 <andythenorth> hmm 16:10:31 <andythenorth> HEQS trams hide invisible trailers inside the length of the visible vehicles 16:10:38 <andythenorth> don't think I can do that here 16:10:46 <andythenorth> templates will be spaghetti if I do that 16:11:12 <frosch123> andythenorth: it not considers all articulated parts when searching for a subtype with the same name 16:11:17 <frosch123> s/not/now/ 16:11:35 <andythenorth> thanks 16:12:22 <supermop_> ok you guys keep up the good work, i am off to get lunch 16:13:28 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.196.116] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:42 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.87.57] has joined #openttd 16:16:42 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:21:47 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 16:21:49 <Eddi|zuHause> dear oberhÃŒmer... WHAT DID I SAY ABOUT EMPTY LINES IN THE TRACKING TABLE! 16:21:57 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:22:05 <frosch123> remove them? 16:23:02 <andythenorth> so 16:23:17 <andythenorth> nml I can't reuse switch identifiers, unlike varaction 2 IDs in nfo? 16:23:29 <andythenorth> not a problem...just checking... 16:23:38 <planetmaker> nope, it can't 16:23:43 <Eddi|zuHause> no, identifiers must be unique 16:24:02 <andythenorth> k 16:24:03 *** Jupix [~jupix@dsl-lprbrasgw1-ff11c100-110.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:24:12 <andythenorth> lots more CPP concatenation then :P 16:24:21 <Eddi|zuHause> which lead me to my VEH_ID(evilness) 16:24:40 <andythenorth> I am there too 16:24:49 <planetmaker> welcome :-) 16:25:11 <andythenorth> I am using it in a more verbose way, because my brain recoils at seeing it in expressions 16:25:30 <planetmaker> whatever helps the understanding 16:25:36 <andythenorth> i.e. I define a constant, then use it wherever 16:25:41 <planetmaker> the bits come nearly at no cost ;-) 16:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause> a cost of a 5 minute compilation time... 16:26:02 <andythenorth> means I don't have to concatenate things with my brain :P 16:26:50 <andythenorth> 6s for BANDIT currently 16:27:15 <andythenorth> 3s for HEQS (nfo) 16:27:24 <andythenorth> adequate 16:27:37 <Eddi|zuHause> hmz... the parameter description doesn't resize on number of lines 16:27:39 <planetmaker> well... OpenGFX takes MUCH longer, if you include the gimp part 16:31:24 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.144.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:42:18 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 16:47:24 <andythenorth> biab 16:47:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 16:54:02 *** rasco [rasco@tietos.com] has joined #openttd 16:54:05 <rasco> hi 16:55:27 *** MagisterQuis [~Adium@c-71-206-9-241.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 16:57:15 <rasco> so... i've got a question: 16:57:40 <iddqd> no no no no no no no 16:57:53 <rasco> all the cost amounts, like running costs, purchase costs etc. they can only be multiplied by 2's right?? 16:58:11 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23775 /trunk/src/ (screenshot.cpp screenshot.h settings_gui.cpp): -Change: Hide the PCX screenshot format from the options window, if a 32bpp blitter is used. 16:59:13 <rasco> is there a way to set really custom costs with a grf? not just doubling the prices? 17:00:16 <frosch123> the overall cost stuff can only be changed by powers of 2 17:00:30 <frosch123> every vehicle sets its purchase cost in more detail 17:02:08 <rasco> okay. and is there a way for one grf to manipulate the vehicle costs of another grf one-by-one (instead of globally)? 17:02:53 <Yexo> yes 17:03:16 <Yexo> one grf can override every vehicle property from vehicles in one other grf 17:03:39 <rasco> oh, perfect. so i could set completely custom prices for my favorite trainset without modifying the set itself. 17:04:02 <Yexo> yes, although that might fail if that trainset uses callbacks to set the cost 17:04:26 <rasco> ok. does the default one use callbacks to set the cost? 17:04:34 <Yexo> no, only other grfs can 17:05:09 <rasco> ok. i would like to make a server with custom (higher) running costs. especially for planes. 17:06:14 <Yexo> if you only wnat to modify the prices of the default aircraft, try to follow the nml tutorial: http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial 17:06:16 <rasco> just multiplying them by powers of 2 didnt work out since it made the earlier planes completely useless 17:06:41 <rasco> yeh. i guess i will have to take a close look at it.thanks. 17:07:10 <rasco> so... another question. i've searched for this before on the forums and found a patch but it's really old: 17:07:17 <rasco> making the multiplayer time slower. 17:07:43 <Yexo> it's still not decided how that should be done and what influences it has on the economy 17:08:02 <rasco> ok. why is time speed an issue with the economy? 17:08:22 <rasco> is the economy coupled with the real-time clock? 17:09:00 <Yexo> if you make a year twice as long (but vehicles run at the same speed), your vehicles travel twice the distance they would before 17:09:25 <Yexo> this means twice as much income. If the running costs are per year it'd be an obvious difference 17:09:53 <Yexo> some industry newgrfs rely on the fact that they produce cargo every 256 ticks, which means 8 or 9 times per month 17:10:20 <Yexo> if a month was suddenly twice as long, they might not produce twice as much leading to problems with your trains (since train capacity would be doubled) 17:10:55 <rasco> i see, there are various issues here :/ 17:11:51 <rasco> but i guess whichever decision is made, newgrf's wouldn't necessarily work when speed is changed 17:12:11 <rasco> so that isn't really an issue. just put a warning above the setting. 17:12:17 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 17:13:42 <rasco> so what about making vehicles slower on slower speed? 17:14:16 *** Hyronymus is now known as Guest23349 17:14:20 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:14:47 <frosch123> pause the game :p 17:14:51 <rasco> or...hmm. if you let them run at regular speed you would have to alter all incomes and running costs 17:15:11 <rasco> frosch123: i've thought about just pausing the game for a few minutes automatically 17:15:17 <rasco> but it sucks since you can't build anything etc. 17:15:26 <frosch123> you can in newer ottd's 17:15:45 <rasco> build during pause? 17:15:52 <frosch123> for < 1.2 in singleplayer, for >= 1.2 also in multiplayer 17:16:02 <frosch123> there is an advanced setting to enable build in pause 17:16:09 <frosch123> hmm, or is that even in 1.1 17:16:12 <frosch123> cannot remember :) 17:16:14 <rasco> well that is interesting... 17:16:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's in 1.1 17:16:39 <FLHerne> Definitely in 1.1 17:16:49 <FLHerne> I use it :P 17:17:15 <rasco> is there such a server? one that makes the time run slower by pausing? 17:17:22 <frosch123> so, where is the gamescript that pauses the game 50% of realtime? :p 17:17:44 <frosch123> rasco: 1.2 has scripting support, so it should be possible to run such a server with 1.2 17:17:53 <frosch123> but i doubt there is one :) 17:18:06 <frosch123> might also look weird :p 17:18:36 <frosch123> however, it is common for servers to pause if no clients are conneted 17:19:05 <Alberth> like slow down the time by a factor 2, and stop all trains every second half of the day :p 17:19:17 <rasco> is it the option "command_pause_level"? 17:19:23 <frosch123> yes 17:19:25 <rasco> frosch123: i might make such a script 17:19:47 *** Guest23349 [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:20:39 <rasco> hmm, what value do i set it to? 17:21:23 <frosch123> i guess "3" allows everything 17:21:44 <rasco> ah, thx 17:21:46 <rasco> seems to work 17:22:12 <rasco> so is there LUA scripting now or what? 17:22:19 <frosch123> squirrel 17:22:32 <rasco> server-side? 17:22:43 <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=65 http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=57431 17:24:08 *** MagisterQuis1 [~Adium@c-71-206-9-241.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 17:25:07 <rasco> squirel's modules are .nut files? :D 17:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> obviously :p 17:26:01 <frosch123> http://squirrel-lang.org/ <- you can see an image of a nut in the topleft 17:26:42 <frosch123> (ottd uses squirrel 2.2.x, in case you browse that site) 17:28:28 *** MagisterQuis [~Adium@c-71-206-9-241.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:30:59 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 17:31:45 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [] 17:34:56 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 17:48:26 <SmatZ> frosch123: what was the reason not to switch to 3.0? problems with backwards compatibility? 17:48:44 <frosch123> yes, we would break all ais 17:49:08 <frosch123> at least as far as i understood the issue :p 17:49:22 <frosch123> yexo knows better 17:52:10 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-5-205.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:52:21 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:52:52 <andythenorth> hmm 17:53:03 <andythenorth> should I let articulated (semi) trucks refit to 0 trailers? 17:53:07 <andythenorth> with 0 capacity? 17:53:29 <frosch123> i thought you do not want cargo subtypes :p 17:53:43 <andythenorth> I drank that coolade already 17:53:54 <andythenorth> unless you shipped rv-wagons while I was just in the shower :P 17:58:11 *** druiz [~druiz@168.pool85-54-52.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #openttd 17:59:01 *** druiz [~druiz@168.pool85-54-52.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [] 18:12:05 <Terkhen> andythenorth: depends, would that reduce running cost accordingly? 18:12:16 <andythenorth> could do 18:12:22 <andythenorth> running bobtail 18:12:53 <andythenorth> where do all the trailers go? :P 18:17:58 *** MagisterQuis [~Adium@c-71-206-9-241.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 18:21:05 <Terkhen> a magic place 18:21:21 <andythenorth> hmm 18:21:28 * andythenorth has to write some magic for auto-refit :o 18:21:59 <Terkhen> good or bad magic? 18:22:10 <Eddi|zuHause> deep magic 18:22:13 *** MagisterQuis1 [~Adium@c-71-206-9-241.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:22:31 <andythenorth> it's only magic because I don't know how it works yet :( 18:22:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't actually looked at autorefit yet 18:23:24 <andythenorth> I'll probably allow it per same class 18:24:21 *** kais58 [~kais58@cpc2-cwma8-2-0-cust293.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:21 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like a good initial estimate 18:27:28 * andythenorth aims for BANDIT r100 18:29:36 *** atoz-chevara [~atoz-chev@222.124.129.51] has joined #openttd 18:30:14 <andythenorth> can nml do maths in spritesets? 18:31:35 <planetmaker> yes 18:32:29 <andythenorth> :) 18:32:34 *** atoz-chevara [~atoz-chev@222.124.129.51] has left #openttd [] 18:32:35 <andythenorth> I don't know what I need yet 18:32:40 <andythenorth> but I have a feeling 18:33:02 <iddqd> whoooo hoooo 18:33:12 <iddqd> that tonightâs gonna be a good night 18:39:37 *** TWerkhoven2 [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:45:02 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: don't look at https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/changes/src/templates/gfx_templates.pnml :p 18:45:27 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23776 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 18:45:27 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:27 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: basque - 18 changes by rosie2999 18:45:27 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: italian - 2 changes by lorenzodv 18:45:27 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: latvian - 35 changes by Tranzistors 18:45:27 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: tamil - 117 changes by aswn 18:45:27 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 24 changes by Fixer 18:45:43 <Eddi|zuHause> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/entry/src/templates/gfx_templates.pnml 18:46:08 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that's pretty neat 18:46:28 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:46:41 <andythenorth> maybe you want to work on trucks next :P 18:48:29 <Eddi|zuHause> that's easy, just put them in one of these templates: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/show/src/gfx :) 18:48:55 * andythenorth is just going to cheat 18:49:01 <andythenorth> defines are like duck tape 18:49:08 <andythenorth> most things can be fixed with "more" 18:56:35 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i need to group companies... so one can offer parameters like: None/All/All German/Prussia/Saxony/Bavaria/All Swiss/SBB/BLS/RhB/All Austrian/kkStB/... 18:59:14 <andythenorth> I have same issue in BANDIT for continents 18:59:24 <andythenorth> seems trivial, just work 19:00:21 <Eddi|zuHause> well, currently i can offer: None/All/Prussia/Saxony/Bavaria/SBB/... 19:00:29 <Eddi|zuHause> but not the "All <xyz>" 19:01:33 <Eddi|zuHause> and then i have various private railways that don't offer a complete set of engines, so they shouldn't be standalone, but like "DBAG only" and "DBAG + private" 19:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> which i currently can't do either 19:04:38 <andythenorth> oh 19:04:40 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:04:41 <andythenorth> I see the issue 19:05:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.177.5] has joined #openttd 19:07:03 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 19:07:03 *** George is now known as Guest23375 19:07:03 *** George|2 is now known as George 19:08:12 *** Guest23375 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:12:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6DD66.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:20:31 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 19:23:20 <Eddi|zuHause> oooooh... access fault! 19:24:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess it's kinda dangerous that openttd doesn't validate against changed files 19:24:09 <Rubidium> is that an euphimism for an (induced) earthquake? 19:24:25 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: binaries? 19:24:39 <Eddi|zuHause> newgrfs 19:24:52 <SpComb> while loaded or between save/load? 19:25:50 <Eddi|zuHause> while the game is running 19:25:57 <Eddi|zuHause> overwriting the newgrf 19:27:23 <Rubidium> that shouldn't happen; IIRC we just open it once per (save)game 19:27:47 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-21-91.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:27:48 <Rubidium> so if something happens, then it's a concurrency issue with reading/writing to it at the same time 19:28:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: refilling sprite cache? 19:28:37 <Rubidium> and IMO more a 'tool that modified grf'-issue; that should not change the file, but write a new one and then replace it so you don't end up with a broken file 19:29:20 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yes, it opens the file once and the sprite cache reused the file handle 19:29:29 <Rubidium> s/reused/keeps/ 19:29:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 19:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and then the file is modified 19:29:47 <SpComb> Rubidium: but openttd still shouldn't crash if someone "corrupts" a grf file while it's loading :) 19:29:56 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 19:30:18 <SpComb> hmm 19:30:40 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if it can be solved at all 19:30:40 <SpComb> you can't assume a file open()'d is immutable, even though the usual semantics are to replace the filename with a new inode 19:31:01 <SpComb> but if you don't want to load it all into memory, well 19:31:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't run an md5sum on each read access 19:31:24 <Rubidium> SpComb: but... reading the whole file in memory doesn't help either 19:31:30 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: neither is md5sum atomic.. 19:31:39 <Rubidium> as you can change it while it's reading the file 19:31:55 <SpComb> Rubidium: well, read it in, parse it to make sure it's valid, and then refernce it later 19:31:56 <Rubidium> so in any case you can be screwed by the NewGRF changing 19:32:13 <SpComb> I assume the issue is that the grf was valid when loaded, but then changed to invalidate those assumptions? 19:32:23 <SpComb> i.e. checked as valid 19:32:42 <SpComb> or does openttd also crash if loading a semi-written/corrupted grf that doesn't change? 19:32:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: can read the file twice and compare? :) 19:33:15 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-35-200.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:33:26 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:33:46 <Eddi|zuHause> my problem was that i unpaused without reload_newgrfs first 19:33:55 <Eddi|zuHause> and then it immediately segfaulted 19:34:28 <Rubidium> SpComb: some invalid NewGRFs may crash OpenTTD when loading them 19:34:41 <Rubidium> but good luck trying to figure out where and when 19:35:13 <Rubidium> and honestly I can't be really bothered by changing those files while OpenTTD is running 19:35:26 <Rubidium> it's like changing NewGRFs in-game, which is something we don't support either 19:35:56 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... town built a 7 tile bridge over river... i thought that is guarded against? 19:37:23 <SpComb> Rubidium: as long as it doesn't have security implications, I guess it's acceptable 19:37:58 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: it should be guarded, IIRC it only allows to cross 3 tiles of water 19:39:39 <Terkhen> hmm... right, that's for bridges over "flat" terrain 19:39:49 <Terkhen> bridges that start on a slope have a limit of 11 19:41:02 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: do not modify the file, but delete it, and recreate it 19:41:12 <frosch123> if you have a proper kernel and filesystem, they should not interact 19:41:14 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i just type make 19:41:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: that looks like the fault then 19:41:51 <frosch123> try adding an "rm bla.grf" before calling nml then 19:42:43 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: no, nmlc should then make sure it writes to a new file, and replace the original one afterwards 19:43:21 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the file should be deleted only if compile was successfull 19:43:41 <Eddi|zuHause> arctic rivers look weird in alpine... 19:44:39 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: it should indeed 19:44:57 <SpComb> open() + write() is only for things like databases, not text files 19:46:56 <SpComb> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/entry/nml/main.py#L181 19:47:13 <SpComb> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/entry/nml/main.py#L288 19:47:17 <SpComb> wroong, no bonus 19:49:13 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/entry/nml/output_nml.py 19:49:40 <Eddi|zuHause> should probably overwrite the open/close routines there 19:50:22 <Alberth> SpComb doesn't matter what you do in the user program, the kernel handles writing to disk 19:51:10 <Alberth> and does not do a single write :p 19:51:14 <SpComb> Alberth: it does, open() + write() + close() isn't atomic at all to other processes 19:51:35 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: but that's not the actual issue 19:51:50 <SpComb> and file.write() is just fwrite(), and that can do arbitrarily many write()s, and I don't think even those are necessarily atomic 19:52:02 <Alberth> it never is 19:52:17 <SpComb> userspace proccesses must do open('foo.tmp'), write, rename('foo.tmp', 'foo') 19:52:32 <SpComb> + an fsync() thrown in at some point in between, can't remember 19:52:39 <SpComb> if they want atomic file saves 19:52:53 <Alberth> why would you want that? 19:53:16 <Alberth> the file is only available after the program finished 19:53:20 <SpComb> and if openttd wants it's old open() fd to retain the old version as it was when it origionally loaded it 19:54:37 <Alberth> so do nmlc .... -o foo.tmp ; mv foo.tmp foo.grf instead 19:54:46 <SpComb> essentially yes 19:54:53 <SpComb> although nmlc should do that itself internally 19:54:59 <Alberth> why? 19:55:03 <blathijs> Why? 19:55:13 <Alberth> nml does not promise atomic file creation 19:55:18 <blathijs> nmlc is a compiler, not a runtime-openttd-grf-file-updater 19:55:25 <SpComb> well, it should, if openttd assumes them :) 19:55:43 <blathijs> Openttd calls nmlc at runtime? 19:57:07 <Eddi|zuHause> no, but nmlc can run while openttd is open 20:01:07 * Alberth has lots of programs running at the same time 20:01:44 <Alberth> but simple solution, run them in separate directories, and use 'mv' :) 20:03:01 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-5-205.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:04:43 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: I can also run echo "foo" > some_file.grf while openttd is open, so what? ;-) 20:05:09 <Eddi|zuHause> blathijs: OPENTTD SHOULD NOT SEGFAULT WHEN DOING THAT (sorry, for the fifth time now) 20:07:01 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: you're overwriting a data file that is in use, and you're surprised stuff breaks? 20:07:28 <Eddi|zuHause> valhallasw: i'm not surprised. i'm saying it should be guarded against. 20:07:41 <Eddi|zuHause> valhallasw: no program should _ever_ segfault 20:08:18 <Eddi|zuHause> a segfault is the first sign of a potential code injection 20:08:25 <frosch123> if you type reload_newgrfs fast enough, it works 20:08:26 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: Then it should be fixed in openttd, not nmlc, right? 20:08:35 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: oh, right, good point 20:08:57 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes. but i tend to forget that :) 20:08:59 <valhallasw> I hadn't looked at it that way, but rather as 'stuff crashes when I do stupid things' 20:09:52 <Eddi|zuHause> blathijs: yes. the nmlc part was in response to those "workarounds" that were given as potential solutions 20:10:23 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-35-200.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:11:10 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: on the other hand... if you can write to files, you can also write to openttd.exe 20:11:19 <__ln__> you can't 20:13:13 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: tell use where it crashes, then I'll add a NOT_REACHED() there. Then it won't be segfaulting anymore ;) 20:13:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the problem with segfaults, you don't get a backtrace 20:13:41 *** Elukka [~Elukka@78-27-84-248.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 20:14:52 *** TWerkhoven2 [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:14:54 <Eddi|zuHause> > fg 20:14:56 <Eddi|zuHause> bin/openttd 20:14:57 <Eddi|zuHause> ALSA lib pcm.c:7316:(snd_pcm_recover) underrun occurred 20:14:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Speicherzugriffsfehler 20:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> complete output 20:15:30 <Rubidium> http://pastebin.com/J9ucWVhx <- I'm getting that 20:18:22 <Eddi|zuHause> well, not here 20:19:26 *** mouseym [~clum@host-92-3-239-85.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 20:21:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: maybe the "beginning on slope" rule should be "beginning on slope on height 1"? 20:22:26 <Eddi|zuHause> or only "bridge on height 1"? 20:22:35 <Eddi|zuHause> (meaning "across ocean") 20:24:29 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp#L1042 <-- it should be building bridges only across rivers or ocean already, if it finds a tile that isn't water under the bridge it stops 20:25:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: i mean replace "if (slope == SLOPE_FLAT)" by "if (height > 1)" 20:26:21 <Wolf01> 'night 20:26:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: so 11 tile bridges are only allowed on height 1 (ocean), not any higher (river) 20:26:26 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:27:15 <Terkhen> oh, I see 20:27:25 <Terkhen> hmmm... not sure 20:27:38 <Eddi|zuHause> check might need some more details 20:28:00 <Terkhen> checking for && IsSea(bridge_tile) in the second build method sounds cleaner to me 20:28:02 *** Chris_Booth_ [~chatzilla@client-86-31-5-205.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:29:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: or check for river width, if the bridge is more than X tiles longer than the river/lake/ocean is wide, forbid the bridge 20:31:21 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 20:31:35 <Terkhen> hmm... but it already can only build bridges over water (I'm sorry, I think that I'm not following you) 20:31:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: "&& IsSea" on the second lopp is wrong, because that will forbid crossing rivers next to slopes 20:32:17 <Terkhen> true 20:32:47 <Eddi|zuHause> slope is the wrong check there 20:33:40 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-5-205.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:33:44 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 20:34:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: with "width" i mean for each water tile in <bridge direction>, go in <orthogonal direction> and count the water tiles. 20:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> if max_width + X < bridge_length: forbid 20:35:40 <Eddi|zuHause> that allows crossing lakes and oceans, cross rivers, but not bridge rivers or canyons lengthwise 20:36:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's completely agnostic of river/sea 20:36:34 <Eddi|zuHause> which is kind of an arbitrary distinction, e.g. in scenarios 20:39:19 <Terkhen> makes sense :P 20:43:02 <Elukka> http://lh5.ggpht.com/_hVOW2U7K4-M/SnuOokTPs9I/AAAAAAABEHA/T03i5vEArxY/s640/mig_blow.jpg 20:43:07 <Elukka> this is how you remove snow and ice from tracks 20:43:12 <Elukka> with a goddamn jet engine 20:43:37 <FLHerne> NewGRF would be shiny :P 20:44:03 <FLHerne> Can NewGRFs remove snow? 20:44:15 <Elukka> http://lh4.ggpht.com/_hVOW2U7K4-M/SndaEpru9LI/AAAAAAABECQ/GfazUh4ou98/s640/133.jpg 20:44:17 <Elukka> airport version 20:44:51 <FLHerne> 8-) 20:45:17 <FLHerne> wrong smily - 8-| 20:50:21 <jonty-comp> i've always thought for train tracks under snow 20:50:32 <jonty-comp> they should just pump gigawatts of heat into the tracks 20:50:36 <jonty-comp> and melt all the snow on them 20:50:42 <jonty-comp> clearly that is the best solution 20:50:56 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: swap the alpine river banks :P 20:51:07 <andythenorth> add a newgrf 20:51:29 <andythenorth> branch this: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/water-features/repository 20:52:48 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it should only need an actionA-ish 20:53:04 <Eddi|zuHause> basically the same that alpine already does with the land sprites 20:53:08 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that newgrf is mostly actionA-ish :P 20:53:21 <andythenorth> just find + replace arctic / temperate :P 20:53:25 <andythenorth> maybe 20:53:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean not actually include any sprites 20:53:58 <andythenorth> that also works 20:54:54 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-102-168.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 21:05:33 *** KillerByte [~11Runner@c-24-20-61-147.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:05:35 *** KillerByte [~11Runner@c-24-20-61-147.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host may be infected. Mail support@oftc.net with questions. BOPM (2012-01-08 21:05:35)] 21:09:50 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 21:12:55 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 21:13:07 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 21:16:22 *** Jogio [~5080e172@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:16:54 <Jogio> good evening together 21:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone spot the irony in killer being killed? 21:23:26 <Rubidium> well, you kill fire with fire ;) 21:40:12 *** Jogio [~5080e172@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:42:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:44:35 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:45:10 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 21:45:10 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:47 *** Mycomeback31 [~Mycomebac@13.116.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 21:55:31 *** Mycomeback31 [~Mycomebac@13.116.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [] 21:56:06 <Rubidium> what a comeback ;) 22:00:21 <FLHerne> Just made a 64 x 32768 map and sent an aircraft from one end to the other 22:00:30 <FLHerne> It took quite a while 22:00:45 <iddqd> did you earn monies? 22:03:48 <FLHerne> No, there weren't any towns in the opposite corners of the map :P 22:03:55 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:04:03 <FLHerne> Rather pointless really 22:04:17 <__ln__> was it refuelled in air? 22:07:07 <FLHerne> I don't know - I'm not using a recent enough version to have range...Does the new aircraft range thing allow refuelling? 22:07:17 <Elukka> there's an aircraft range thing? 22:08:45 <FLHerne> Apparently. I haven't used it yet though. Could be quite fun if it works... 22:09:55 *** Rezt [~Rezt@81-178-198-172.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 22:12:58 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B901.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:38 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-prvbrasgw1-fe05dc00-37.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:19:26 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:24:15 *** Rezt [~Rezt@81-178-198-172.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 22:35:10 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:39:38 <Terkhen> good night 22:50:08 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 22:57:35 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-028-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 22:57:45 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-5-205.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:58:12 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it] 22:59:03 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: Sla Mutant Co-Op for Renegade - coming back soon] 23:05:34 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 23:06:32 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:06:34 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 23:06:57 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:33 <frosch123> night 23:18:36 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f607f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:40 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest23394 23:20:40 *** Guest23394 [~frank@p5DDFD15F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:20:41 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFD15F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:20:57 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 23:21:12 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.87.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:00 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:09 *** DDR_ is now known as DDR 23:30:56 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 23:36:53 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:37:18 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:46:58 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:48:44 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:52:24 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-028-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... 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