Log for #openttd on 20th January 2012:
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00:18:08  <frosch123> night
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00:32:27  * Zuu thinks OpenTTD got zombie messages.
00:32:54  <Zuu> At least I got a GSGoal.Question window showing up in chapter 1.2 that should only show in chapter 1.1 :-)
00:33:18  <Zuu> In 1.1 it is closed by GSWindow.Close(...)
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00:36:58  <Zuu> Apparently, I have used the wrong window_number to close it in chapter 1.1, but that shouldn't make it close as a zomibe that wakes up in 1.2 :-)
00:38:42  <Zuu> by using the correct window_number it now don't show up again :-)
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01:12:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess that failed, then.
01:14:35  <Rhamphoryncus> Well now, obviously :P
01:15:22  <planetmaker> and again :-P :-)
01:15:52  <Rhamphoryncus> Yup.  Seems useless to even try now.  Might as well give up and talk
01:16:22  <Rhamphoryncus> So.. haven't been  here since early 2010.  Something made me want to play again >.>
01:16:42  <planetmaker> best time to talk is EU evening. Usually ;-) And some addiction just stick
01:17:44  <Rhamphoryncus> I soon rediscovered how frustrating timetabling is.  So I'm trying to fix it.  Again.  Like the last time I played.
01:18:16  <Eddi|zuHause> tried the 24h clock mod?
01:18:56  <Rhamphoryncus> nope.  I did read up on one but it didn't seem like what I was looking for.  It looked like more of an interface tweak than a fundamental fix
01:19:24  <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of fundamental change are you looking for?
01:19:56  <Rhamphoryncus> Make train, set route, clone 30 more trains, hit button to turn on, walk away.
01:20:16  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, you'll be searching for autoseparation then
01:21:14  <Rhamphoryncus> I'm not opposed to an interface that gives you manual control of the intervals.  It just needs to be a sane interface on the route, not individual trains
01:21:50  <Zuu> Do you use shared orders?
01:22:10  <Rhamphoryncus> Once I tripped across them on the wiki, yes
01:25:20  <Rhamphoryncus> Last time I made a patch that mostly worked, but it was a giant bodge.  This time I'm trying to make a good patch
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01:35:09  <Eddi|zuHause> be sure you include options for both people who want to "fire and forget", and people who want to tweak every little detail (like round-trip time, buffer time at end stations, synchronization with other timetables, ...)
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01:36:08  <Rhamphoryncus> yeah
01:37:17  <Eddi|zuHause> and try out this patch:
01:37:18  <Rhamphoryncus> That all goes in to setting the schedule.  Once it's figured out is the hard part: gracefully compensating when your vehicles don't stick to it.
01:38:29  <Eddi|zuHause> one thing i had trouble with all previous timetabling patches: if roadvehicle A is stuck behind roadvehicle B of the same route and can't overtake, then it should switch out the timetabling between the two
01:39:53  <Rhamphoryncus> Huh, that one looks decent
01:40:06  <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, that's key in my mind
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01:48:58  <Eddi|zuHause> "Washington DC will be one of the first regions suffering from rising ocean"
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01:52:55  <Eddi|zuHause> "if the local sea level were to rise by just 0.1 meter, or about 4 inches, by 2043, nearly 68,000 people would be affected, and property damage would total upwards of  billion - without including damage to military bases and government property."
01:55:48  <Elukka> i bet some significant percentage of those people would still deny we had anything to do with it
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06:39:04  <Sandra2012> Come chat with me guys..
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06:43:12  <Sandra2012> Come chat with me guys..
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06:47:08  <Sandra2012> Come chat with me guys..
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06:47:34  *** mode/#openttd [+b Sandra2012!*@*] by SmatZ
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09:16:22  <dihedral> greetings
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10:29:54  <planetmaker> calc 1.02**54
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10:47:05  <Yexo> good morning
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11:03:47  <planetmaker> moin
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11:27:00  <appe> jesus
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11:27:25  <appe> the ex foreign minister of sweden refered to the us as "a future subject for north koreans"
11:27:34  <appe> the worst thing is that it's true..
11:41:45  <appe> the irony, playing openttd whilst on the db regio head office.
11:47:19  <__ln__> you?
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11:50:07  <appe> yes
11:50:25  <appe> my girlfriend works with the trains
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12:53:24  <Rhamphoryncus> 1900 is quite painful
12:54:08  <andythenorth> ?
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12:55:38  <Rhamphoryncus> Look at the horses go :P
12:58:14  <planetmaker> <Rhamphoryncus> [13:03:27] 1900 is quite painful <-- that's why we live in 2012 ;-)
12:59:05  <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, but I don't think we'll get a hoverbus in 2030
13:00:06  <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: try something else beginning with H
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13:00:50  <Rhamphoryncus> .. can't figure out what you mean
13:01:01  <ARyan> hello
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13:03:03  <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus, it was a shameless plug by andythenorth. He means HEQS
13:03:13  <planetmaker> Shameless or not, it'd be my recommendation, too
13:03:15  * andythenorth is shameless marketeer
13:03:29  <andythenorth> but also I sat watching horses go slowly, and decided to fix it :P
13:04:46  <Rhamphoryncus> Hmm, I remember using that when I last played several years ago
13:05:02  <planetmaker> several years ago? HEQS?
13:05:08  <planetmaker> Seems to not quite fit
13:05:11  <andythenorth> HEQS is ~2 years old
13:05:50  <planetmaker> (for me several >> 2, but at least >2)
13:06:57  <andythenorth> one, many :P
13:06:58  <Rhamphoryncus> Okay, I last played a little under two years ago, but I had played more before that.  HEQS was probably towards the end
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13:08:01  <andythenorth>
13:08:42  <andythenorth> orudge: is there a phpBB switch for 'permalink to this post' ?
13:09:07  <planetmaker> that's what you posted
13:09:07  <andythenorth> if so, could I request it be turned on? :)
13:09:46  <andythenorth> I get that by clicking 'pm' then copying the post ID from the textarea
13:09:51  <planetmaker> the link you get for the small icon in the upper right remains the same
13:09:52  <Rhamphoryncus> How well does it balance with generic tram set and eGRVTS?
13:10:20  <planetmaker> the icon left of Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:01 pm
13:10:27  <planetmaker> try that, andythenorth
13:10:41  <andythenorth> ah hah
13:10:45  <andythenorth> that is the permalink
13:11:01  <Rhamphoryncus> and the comment on the first page about not being a really big mining truck makes me want a really big mining truck.  It'd need a new track type, representing the special dirt roads.  :D
13:11:18  <planetmaker> 'copy link location' from the context menu gives you it, yes
13:11:21  <andythenorth> planetmaker: thankss :)
13:11:25  <planetmaker> welcome
13:11:33  <planetmaker> I use it often enough :-)
13:11:56  <planetmaker> or click on the title of the _posting_ (not thread) and then copy the browser URL
13:12:00  <andythenorth> I've been doing it the hard way :P
13:12:19  <andythenorth> I only make internets for a job :P
13:12:45  <Rhamphoryncus> browsing the source to find the anchor?
13:13:08  <andythenorth> just assumed it was turned off :P
13:13:14  <andythenorth> assumptions assumptions assumptions
13:13:21  * andythenorth back to work, making internets
13:13:51  * Rhamphoryncus gives andythenorth some tubes
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13:24:53  <xiong> Okay, now cargodist is coming clear. The critical points are related to the structure of the network, not to vehicles per se.
13:25:37  <xiong> At least with pax, which is all I've tried; perhaps mail as well since that's symmetric traffic, too:
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13:28:10  <xiong> A) Do not run "circulators". In vanilla I was in the habit of establishing 4 bus stops equally spaced about a town center and running a local circulating service. This might seem to work well with cargodist as a feeder service but pax end up making time-consuming stops where they don't want to go.
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13:31:18  <xiong> B) Initially weight capacity toward the "middle" of the graph, which should now resemble a tree. I made the mistake of running good service between two towns, then between two others; finally connecting -- weakly -- one from each pair. It's no surprise that a great deal of pax wanted to travel over the weak link.
13:31:31  <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: How do you mean?  People get off and on again at every stop?
13:32:46  <xiong> Rhamphoryncus, are you asking in reference to A or B?
13:32:55  <Rhamphoryncus> A
13:33:38  <xiong> Yes, I thought so but wasn't sure. No, the problem is exactly that pax do *not* load/unload at each circulator stop, as they do in vanilla.
13:34:17  <xiong> Rather, they wait patiently until the bus moves on to their desired stop. The stop time is wasted, the pax are that much later getting where they're going.
13:34:36  <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus, mind, if you don't play patched OpenTTD, with cargodist, it's irrelevant ;-)
13:35:05  <Rhamphoryncus> Ahh, so even if nobody is embarking/disembarking it still does a full stop?
13:35:16  <Rhamphoryncus> planetmaker: I *am* playing with cargodist :)
13:35:17  <xiong> In the case of a route that goes clockwise around town center 1-2-3-4, worst case has pax boarding at 1 who want to go to 4; the travel is 3 times the distance paid.
13:35:47  <michi_cc> xiong: You know, that is the whole point of all cargod?st implementation.
13:35:54  <xiong> Rhamphoryncus, that seems to be my experience. Same for you?
13:36:10  <xiong> michi_cc, Yes, it's obvious, now.
13:36:24  <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: ahh, yeah.  That encourages you to have better routes :)
13:37:04  <xiong> I'm playing with chillpack and I'm also using automated timetabling; so vehicles like to waste a day or two at a stop in any case.
13:37:21  <Rhamphoryncus> I might do a 3-point triangle, but any more I'd rather have bidirectional lines that cross at a common hub
13:37:59  <planetmaker> Try cargodist with one (or a few) major hubs. And regional networks attached there
13:38:05  <planetmaker> Makes for interesting building
13:38:07  <xiong> Thank you, Rhamphoryncus; that's my thinking. I'm not even too sure about triangle routes; if the triangle is equilateral, worst-case travel distance is twice what you get paid for.
13:38:25  <planetmaker> While keeping it managable at the same time
13:38:54  <Rhamphoryncus> I'd consider having two routes going at opposite directions
13:38:55  <xiong> Yes, planetmaker: hub and spoke, smaller hubs and spokes. No circulators.
13:39:13  <planetmaker> well. Depends ;-)
13:39:35  <planetmaker> An olympic ring network certainly would work :-)
13:39:38  <Rhamphoryncus> I'm not sure how well it balances between directions when your circulator has both clockwise and counterclockwise
13:39:41  <planetmaker> with hubs where they cross
13:40:01  <xiong> Rhamphoryncus, Tried that. Ran local service with two sets of vehicles, one clockwise, one counter-clockwise. Fail. Pax still board the next vehicle that seems to have a decent shot of taking them to their dest.
13:40:48  <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: ergh.  It may only weight for saturation, not efficiency x_x
13:40:51  <xiong> I'm going to shut this game down now since I've learned important lessons and try strictly out-and-back service next time.
13:41:32  <xiong> I'll give ships another go. I'm not yet convinced they're broken in cargodist, not yet; although the plausible explanation was offered.
13:41:49  * Rhamphoryncus likes truck loading bays so much he puts a truck loading bay in his truck loading bay.  Then clicks again, paying a *third* time.
13:41:51  <xiong> I think you're exactly correct, Rhamphoryncus.
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13:58:32  <Rhamphoryncus> Got a coal line that's about 15 long.. got 30 carriages on it, trying to keep up
14:00:23  <planetmaker> 15 tiles? That's short
14:00:35  <planetmaker> Sounds like work for RV typically
14:00:36  <xiong> Oh yeah, forgot: I also notice that the link graph calculates the location of a disjoint station at what appears to be the barycenter, not the first "sign" tile. I suspect the payout is so calculated, too.
14:00:41  <planetmaker> or for HEQS trams rather
14:01:09  <xiong> Rhamphoryncus, yah, your omission of units makes that statement look weird.
14:01:32  <Rhamphoryncus> 15 tiles, 30 horse-draw carriages
14:01:40  <xiong> Ah.
14:02:14  <xiong> I too am a horse man. I start in 1850. What kind of world has no transportation at all in 1950??
14:02:22  <Rhamphoryncus> heh
14:03:47  <Elukka> what kind of world has no public roads between cities?
14:04:05  <Rhamphoryncus> what kind of world only has one type of road?
14:04:31  <Elukka> would it be possible to make an AI that had a practically infinite amount of money, built a road network and then more or less shut down?
14:06:14  <Rhamphoryncus> Pity one-way roads just make it into a single-lane one-way
14:07:50  <Rhamphoryncus> aaaand I have a backlog a little over halfway around this route
14:10:50  <planetmaker> Elukka, that's called game script
14:10:54  <planetmaker> answer is thus: yes
14:11:15  <Elukka> hm. that'd be a cool thing
14:11:21  <planetmaker> practically that exists as real AI already, though. It will just bancrupt, but roads will remain
14:11:32  <planetmaker> and a new such AI will emerge. Works also
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14:24:42  <Rhamphoryncus> Ahh, seems to have solved it.  Double-road, balanced, and make the roro truck stops 2 long so that queueing actually works.
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14:28:33  <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: hrm, cargodist is *supposed* to handle cycles.  I don't suppose you were using a single route to go all the way around, rather than a series of individual routes?
14:29:14  <Rhamphoryncus> It might be failing because the pax have a series of hops they want and your train does them all
14:33:22  <Elukka> my first thought on your nick was 'but it's spelled rhamphorhynchus!' and i have no idea how the hell i remember how to spell something like that
14:33:45  <Rhamphoryncus> lol.  Have you been here for years?  I used to come here 2 years ago
14:34:07  <Rhamphoryncus> And you're right, it is spelled rhamphorhynchus.  Mine's an archaic spelling.  From a kid's dinosaur book many years ago.
14:34:15  <xiong> Elukka, that would actually be fairly realistic -- not quite but nearly -- in some parts of the world just a century ago. Even as recently as 1919, the future General and President Eisenhower found it well-nigh impossible to drive the US coast-to-coast.
14:34:52  <Elukka> nah i've only come here fairly recently
14:35:16  <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: we need multiple grades of roads, with very crude dirt ones that get upgraded and upgraded
14:35:25  <xiong> Rhamphoryncus, I was running, as was my vanilla habit, four horse carriage "buses" clockwise around four road stops. And as I said, adding CCW didn't seem to help much.
14:35:42  <xiong> Ah, now you're thinking SimCity.
14:35:55  <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: try splitting into 4 routes
14:36:00  <planetmaker> that's called road types
14:36:14  <xiong> Dirt roads, two-laners, expressways, superhighways.
14:36:21  <michi_cc> Try YACD instead :p
14:36:38  <planetmaker> :-)
14:37:07  * planetmaker misses the one, two FIRS yacd games. Were loads of fun :-)
14:37:26  <xiong> I'd be happier if I didn't get so many wacky towns centered on tiny islands... with enormously long bridges, with two houses on the far end.
14:38:08  <xiong> But then, Rhamphoryncus, we have to ask about rail classes.
14:38:35  <planetmaker> you have them, xiong
14:38:35  <Rhamphoryncus> heh
14:38:41  <planetmaker> just use an appropriate newgrf
14:39:15  <Rhamphoryncus> Those bridges wouldn't look so silly if there was a dirt road network attached to it
14:39:21  <xiong> Narrow gauge? Welded? Washed-out ballast? Concrete tie?
14:39:27  <planetmaker> you actually even have them by default. called raill, el. rail, monorail and maglev ;-)
14:39:38  <planetmaker> xiong, exactly. Just grab it
14:40:09  <xiong> Fact is, if you want a certain level of detail, you need to go to the hobby store and tell the man what you want. Then you start annoying everyone else in your life.
14:42:12  <xiong> It's been suggested to me that since I moved into a one-bedroom apt; and since I live alone (nobody to annoy much) and use the bedroom only for storage; I *might* just start slapping plaster on plywood.
14:42:18  <Rhamphoryncus> aww, gotta stop playing so I can get other things done
14:42:26  * Rhamphoryncus activates lurk mode!
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15:35:16  <Belugas> hello
15:36:49  * Belugas is sad today. Megaupload death is a very bad news.
15:37:13  <Belugas> i'll have to dig new sites for my entertainment now :(
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15:44:41  <TrueBrain> one of the gazillion others? :P
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16:00:23  <Belugas> I'm new to it!
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18:54:23  <Guest24629> hola, alguien habla español?
18:54:33  <Guest24629> hello, someone spack spanish?
18:54:53  <__ln__> algunos
18:55:03  <Guest24629> hola, me puedes resolver una duda del juego?
18:55:19  <Guest24629> los botones para crear estaciones y almacenes de autobuses me vienen desactivados
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18:56:29  <Guest24629> del transport tycoon me refiero
18:56:41  <__ln__> hmm... no sé. ¿cúal año es?
18:57:42  <Guest24629> pero este no es el canal?
18:57:51  <Guest24629> el del juego?
18:58:28  <__ln__> es el canal del OpenTTD
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19:09:05  * TrueBrain wonders how __ln__ would react if I now kick him for not speaking english :D Or is that too hard? :P
19:10:51  <__ln__> i'm still the biggest advocate of the 'english only' rule, i only disobey it when i speak another language myself
19:14:07  <Xaroth> kick it kick it :P
19:14:15  <Xaroth> and by it i mean NOT me.
19:14:17  * Xaroth eyes TrueBrain
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19:15:25  <TrueBrain> I guess I am in a good mood
19:15:32  <TrueBrain> else Xaroth would have been kicked by now
19:15:34  <TrueBrain> sometimes I surprise myself
19:15:44  <Xaroth> sometimes you surprise even me...
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19:19:06  <Wolf01> evenink
19:19:49  <__ln__> buon vada-a-bordo
19:20:01  <__ln__> english only
19:20:02  <andythenorth> :m
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19:23:16  <Belugas> i vote for not kicking, since it was actually helping someone new around :)
19:23:44  <TrueBrain> Belugas: that is the problem; can you be sure?
19:24:06  <Belugas> well... i know enough of spanish to understand what has been told :)
19:24:11  <TrueBrain> :D :)
19:25:26  <Prof_Frink> Something about canals.
19:26:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it was whether this is a control channel for botnets
19:26:26  <Belugas> he was wondering why the buttons to create stations were inactive :)
19:26:48  <__ln__> and i said i don't know and asked what year it is
19:27:21  <Belugas> and then, what game been used.  looked like it was ttd, and not openttd, since he left afterward
19:27:21  <Eddi|zuHause> and he asked whether he was old enough to know about such stuff
19:27:40  <Belugas> aaahh... debug session started
19:27:42  <Belugas> see you
19:31:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling the default network timeouts are a tad too low
19:31:08  * andythenorth is having fun times with missing data
19:31:15  <andythenorth> this is not generally a good thing
19:31:24  <andythenorth> nor specifically a good thing
19:31:44  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: can you retrace your steps where you did put the data last?
19:31:57  <andythenorth> customer data
19:32:01  <andythenorth> important customer data
19:32:10  <andythenorth> :|
19:32:22  * andythenorth back to work
19:35:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23825 /trunk/src/lang/ (belarusian.txt german.txt russian.txt welsh.txt):
19:35:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:35:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belarusian - 2 changes by KorneySan
19:35:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 49 changes by planetmaker
19:35:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 2 changes by Lone_Wolf
19:35:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: welsh - 17 changes by kazzie
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19:45:13  <Terkhen> hello
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20:30:15  <andythenorth> hi Terkhen
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21:08:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23826 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Fix [FS#4972]: the detailed performance rating window showed the cargo count of the current quarter instead of the last quarter like the tooltip says
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21:52:25  <frosch123> web hosting is a silly business...
21:53:51  <frosch123> the more detailed and serious the providers appear, the cheaper they become
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21:55:18  <Rubidium> benefits of scale I'd guess
22:00:40  <andythenorth> frosch123: you are overlooking rackspace clearly :p
22:00:58  <andythenorth> Alberth: sanity in the newgrf industry spec?  have you been smoking crack today? :)
22:01:32  <frosch123> it is definitely one of the more sane ones :p
22:02:47  <Eddi|zuHause> "better than the station specs"? :p
22:04:24  <frosch123> imo stations < vehicles < cargos < houses < industries
22:04:38  <frosch123> no idea where to put townnames, rails and objects though :p
22:04:38  <Alberth> frosch123: locally deciding based on static data how the industries in the world should evolve without the openttd program being able to intervene or even give hints
22:04:56  <Alberth> townnames are juts eye-candy :p
22:05:05  <Alberth> *just
22:05:15  <frosch123> oh, signals < stations < ...
22:05:45  <andythenorth> vehicles < industries ?
22:05:47  <andythenorth> nope
22:06:16  <frosch123> so you succeded in refittable articulated vehicles? :p
22:06:29  <Eddi|zuHause> depends on what you define as "sane"
22:06:45  <andythenorth> my articulated vehicles are refittable after much studying of failures :P
22:06:54  <frosch123> vehicles have the most arcane, deprecated, conflicting... etc things
22:06:58  <andythenorth> and provision of buy menu magic
22:07:15  <andythenorth> and ensuring lead vehicle is refittable or not depending on your flavour of madness
22:07:20  <Eddi|zuHause> buy menu magic is probably the most problematic
22:07:36  <andythenorth> vehicles have a sane spec in terms of affordances to authors
22:07:42  <andythenorth> but an insane implementation
22:07:51  <andythenorth> industries have the wrong set of affordances
22:08:02  <andythenorth> and the implementation is relatively sane
22:08:10  <andythenorth> you can do all the wrong things quite easily
22:09:39  <andythenorth> maybe industries should get their own script space
22:09:53  <andythenorth> cos adding yet more stuff definitely won't make everything worse :P
22:10:31  <Eddi|zuHause> "embedded newgrf script"
22:10:50  <Eddi|zuHause> that's gonna make things... interesting :p
22:11:04  <andythenorth> opening and closing are the worst
22:11:22  <andythenorth> having to deal with industry spacing yourself is ok, but seems a bit baroque
22:11:38  <andythenorth> everything else is kind of ok as far as I recall
22:15:02  <andythenorth> no it's not
22:15:04  <andythenorth> spawning
22:15:24  <andythenorth> why make the newgrf deal solely with that?
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22:17:58  <Alberth> #input/output cargos could be a bit more flexible imho
22:18:23  <frosch123> yeah, but scripts cannot deal with such stuff :p
22:20:59  <Alberth> hmm, are OpenGFX+farms supposed to produce wheat/livestock in the snow (arctic)?
22:21:01  <frosch123> hmm, otoh, maybe
22:21:37  <frosch123> opengfx+industries seem to try to produce any cargo available to any climate
22:22:39  <planetmaker> it can do that.
22:22:58  <planetmaker> by default it doesn't change the industries. It modifies cargos, though
22:23:12  <frosch123> true, it is coded in nml, so it is supposed to have tons of parameters :)
22:23:50  <andythenorth> changing input/output stores you up a lot of insanity
22:24:24  <planetmaker> lol, frosch123. But... might be true
22:25:32  <Alberth> frosch123: I know, I translated the strings, however I have not yet set any of them :p
22:26:04  <planetmaker> Alberth: wheat/livestock might be default. It doesn't treat farms differently for climates.
22:26:11  <planetmaker> But it allows you to select the cargo ;-)
22:26:53  <frosch123> opengfx+industries is like manual industries, but more sane :p
22:26:58  <planetmaker> but it might be a different cargo name there. But... that's of no effect
22:28:02  <frosch123> so, what now
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22:28:18  <Alberth> I was actually asking about production being non-zero while the farm is buried in the snow
22:28:24  <frosch123> for some reason i did not have dinner yet, even though i am hungry
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22:28:51  <andythenorth> Alberth: making production 0 in winter sucks for gameplay
22:28:53  * frosch123 expores the kitchen
22:29:02  <andythenorth> you don't see the store sheds? :o
22:29:32  <Alberth> andythenorth: good point
22:29:52  <andythenorth> lots of 'train is losing money' messages also
22:29:54  <andythenorth> probably
22:29:59  <andythenorth> and 'train stuck'
22:30:08  <andythenorth> and probably epic traffic jams, depending on your play style
22:30:11  * Alberth almost never has those messages
22:31:26  <andythenorth> your farms don't stop in winter ;)
22:31:40  <Xaroth> slippery rail
22:31:47  <Xaroth> trains take 4x as long to accelerate
22:31:59  <Xaroth> or at least down here they apparently do...
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22:35:12  <Elukka> farms stopping during winter would only make sense gameplay wise if your vehicles automatically understood it and stopped working for the period
22:35:37  <Eddi|zuHause> make a "summer timetable" and a "winter timetable"
22:36:10  <andythenorth> might make much more sense with auto-refit than it used to
22:36:21  <Eddi|zuHause> but really, the timetable system is incapable of automatically handling such temporal changes
22:36:23  <andythenorth> when is beet season? :P
22:36:26  <Elukka> sounds like too much effort
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22:36:45  <Alberth> I could perhaps if I understood how time tables worked :p
22:36:58  <andythenorth> auto-refit orders by month
22:37:01  <andythenorth> oct: sugar beet
22:37:04  <andythenorth> august: wheat
22:37:11  <Eddi|zuHause> same why a passenger peak ("rush hour") is not sanely handleable
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22:46:13  <Nat_> how does the cargodest patch work? do I just copy all the files over my install or what?
22:46:38  <planetmaker> you just unzip it into a separate dir. It comes with everything it needs
22:48:03  <Nat_> I get a bunch of bugs when I do that.
22:48:51  <Belugas> haaa.. pleasure of a starting weekend!
22:48:53  <Belugas> see ayou all!
22:49:05  <Nat_> ini: invalid value 'SHOW_TOWN_NAMES|SHOW.... longer
22:49:25  <Nat_> then ini: ignoring invalid NewGRF .... longer
22:49:39  <Nat_> then the same error a few more times with my other newgrifs
22:49:48  <Alberth> Bye Belugas
22:49:58  <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably because your .cfg is from a newer version
22:50:00  <Nat_> and lastly Error! Cannot open file ''
22:50:03  <Nat_> oh
22:50:07  <Eddi|zuHause> cargodest is really old
22:50:09  <Nat_> is this only compatible with older ones?
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22:50:14  <Nat_> :c
22:50:19  <Nat_> why is it not better supported?
22:50:38  <Nat_> do people really prefer the shitty classic cargo system?
22:50:40  <planetmaker> oh... cargodEst?
22:50:46  <planetmaker> or cargodIst?
22:50:51  <Nat_> cargodest
22:51:00  <Nat_> the one that makes cargo have specific destinations
22:51:02  <Nat_> like in simutrans
22:51:38  <Nat_>
22:51:47  <Nat_>
22:52:03  <Eddi|zuHause> anybody fluent in xml-processing?
22:52:09  <planetmaker> that's of antique value only
22:52:27  <planetmaker> <-- use that, Nat_
22:52:28  <Nat_> what's the last version it's compatible with?
22:52:51  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not "compatible with" anything, it's a standalone version
22:53:21  <Nat_> which do I download, this is a whole dir
22:53:35  <planetmaker> the newest
22:53:54  <Elukka> surely a patch is compatible with some particular revision?
22:53:59  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, need something quick that does: "for each <Text> node: if contains <English> node, and not contains <German> node, copy <English>-content into <German>-content"
22:54:11  <Elukka> wait are those binaries
22:54:48  <Nat_> oh wow it even downloads the graphics
22:54:50  <Nat_> Naughty
22:55:07  <Elukka> oh my god they are new binaries
22:55:08  <Elukka> finally
22:55:32  <Elukka> for something like a year there weren't any
22:55:52  <Nat_> if I were to say load an old game, would it work the same?
22:56:01  <Nat_> or would the new system interact with it funny?
22:56:01  <Elukka> it wouldn't load, probably
22:56:14  <Nat_> it loaded
22:56:22  <Elukka> well, dunno then
22:56:23  <planetmaker> Nat_: it's a patched openttd. Don't expect compatibility with other patched versions
22:57:06  <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_: generally don't assume that a patched version loads anything.
22:57:21  <Nat_> what about scenerios?
22:57:28  <Eddi|zuHause> same
22:57:35  <Nat_> :c
22:58:00  <Elukka> that's the reason i haven't made any of the scenarios i've wanted to make
22:58:33  <Elukka> there doesn't seem to be any safe bet with regards to what version they should be made in
22:58:40  <planetmaker> Elukka: you can always create the scenarios in openttd stable and load it in the patch...
22:58:53  <Eddi|zuHause> *almost* always
22:59:01  <planetmaker> :-)
22:59:06  <Nat_> well I opened the scenerio in the edtior in the patched version
22:59:07  <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. chillpp doesn't load 1.1.x savegames
22:59:11  <Nat_> will there be any problems?
22:59:15  <Nat_> it seems to be running
22:59:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_: if it loaded, it will likely not cause problems
22:59:44  <Nat_> I'm just changing a few quirks in this scenrio, it's a small map with one incomplete industry chain that can't ever be complete
22:59:46  <Elukka> if i make a scenario in stable can it be expected to work with stuff like cargodist and future stables?
22:59:52  <Nat_> because the map has no place forests can spawn
23:00:13  <Elukka> i mean, i realize there's no absolute guarantee and openttd might be very different in 10 years, but as a general rule
23:00:18  <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_: but if you save the scenario in cargodist, you will never ever be able to load it anywhere else
23:00:24  <Nat_> okay
23:00:26  <planetmaker> Elukka: in future openttd: yes. future patch: most probable
23:00:30  <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_: not in normal openttd, nor in any future versions of cargodist
23:00:33  <Elukka> alright
23:00:41  <Nat_> that's cool, I could probably re-create it from the origonal if I wanted
23:00:48  <Nat_> it's on the normal list
23:00:55  <Nat_> Skaldi islands or however you spell it
23:00:58  <Nat_> I love how tiny it is.
23:01:09  <Nat_> a nice map where you can connect everything in a few hours.
23:08:03  <planetmaker> g'night
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23:19:36  <frosch123> night
23:19:58  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:20:59  <Terkhen> good night
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23:23:53  <Nat_> what if the government in real life was like in TTD
23:24:07  <Nat_> the best way to lobby is to plant trees
23:27:52  <Nat_> what's a good grf for arctic climate?
23:28:00  <Nat_> i like the tropic refurbishment set
23:33:39  <Alberth> swedish rails :)
23:39:05  <Nat_> I downloaded the US one
23:39:12  <Nat_> that's a ton of trains,
23:39:15  <Nat_> why would i need this many
23:39:16  <Nat_> :c
23:39:25  <Nat_> it's almost as bad as the plane list
23:39:31  <Nat_> how will i ever make a desision
23:39:41  <Alberth> that's the main reason I still only play with the default train set :p
23:40:29  <Nat_> Default trains hate tropic and artic
23:40:31  <Alberth> (and the opengfx+ extensions, but they add very little stuff)
23:40:46  <Nat_> which are the coolest maps
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23:40:54  <Alberth> how 'hate'?
23:41:06  <Nat_> less trains
23:41:10  <Nat_> no electric
23:41:21  <Nat_> more like neglect
23:41:44  <Alberth> no electric makes sense, at least in arctic, imho
23:41:54  <Alberth> wires would freeze :p
23:42:21  <Alberth> and those mountains need big engines, and electric is not so powerful
23:42:28  <Nat_> if you really want to be uber realistic, dissalow electric trains above the snow line.
23:42:43  <Alberth> but I am more of a steam/diesel person :p
23:42:55  * Alberth has no desire to be realistic :)
23:42:59  * Nat_ finds uses for both
23:43:03  <Nat_> verriety is cool
23:43:16  <Nat_> but too many options is confusing
23:43:21  <Nat_> especaly when it's all one list
23:43:32  <Nat_> like having a million engines would be fine if I could filter them
23:43:45  <Alberth> you can sort them
23:43:55  <Alberth> and only care about the top-few ones
23:45:53  <Alberth> ok, I am off to bed, good night
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