Log for #openttd on 22nd January 2012:
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00:00:13  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: a column in the tracking table, to make them fixed
00:00:20  <andythenorth> I'm thinking the same
00:00:29  <andythenorth> gets messy if I change the number of trailers per vehicle
00:00:39  <andythenorth> I'll figure it out I guess
00:00:46  <Eddi|zuHause> they don't have to be in any kind of order
00:00:49  <andythenorth> no
00:00:53  <Eddi|zuHause> just be unique, and constant
00:01:00  <andythenorth> plenty to choose from
00:01:07  <andythenorth> is the limit 65k?
00:01:21  <Eddi|zuHause> 64k for heads, 16k for trailers
00:01:31  <nat_as> what is "other" expenses?"
00:01:37  <nat_as> is that trees I planted?
00:01:49  <Eddi|zuHause> nat_as: bribing, advertising, ...
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00:02:11  <andythenorth> I could give each lead truck a block of 100 IDs still have enough spare below 16k :P
00:02:14  <nat_as> I don't do that
00:02:23  <nat_as> but I DID just put a bunch of trees
00:02:24  <andythenorth> although blocks of 10 would be plenty too
00:02:31  <nat_as> so I guess that counts as a bribe :V
00:02:36  <andythenorth> but now sleep time
00:02:37  <andythenorth> bye
00:02:38  <Eddi|zuHause> nat_as: there's also a fixed fee that gets deduced every month
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00:04:28  <nat_as> I am at this point where my profits and expensies are both really really high
00:04:41  <nat_as> so I go in the hole for months at a time before my profits drag me otu
00:04:42  <nat_as> out
00:04:51  <nat_as> even though I am earning more money than I lose
00:04:55  <nat_as> it sucks waiting though
00:05:00  <nat_as> I have shit to build now!
00:05:14  <Eddi|zuHause> need to make your network more efficient
00:06:21  <nat_as> that would be prohibitively expensive.
00:06:38  <nat_as> although I think some of my trains can be trimmed
00:07:27  <Eddi|zuHause> costs grow faster than income
00:07:37  <Eddi|zuHause> so you need to constantly improve your network
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00:08:21  <nat_as> replacing my frieght engines will be hard
00:08:34  <nat_as> new ones cost almost 200,000
00:08:42  <nat_as> and wont last as long!
00:08:45  <nat_as> :C
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00:11:05  <nat_as> hmm, passengers don't seem to make two way trips, even in cargodist.
00:11:13  <nat_as> they all go to this one town at the end of the line
00:11:17  <nat_as> and never come back!
00:11:45  <nat_as> train comes back empty every time.
00:12:00  <nat_as> that's both disturbing and ineficant.
00:15:05  <nat_as> can't get my rubber train to make any money
00:15:08  <nat_as> what gives.
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00:18:34  <frosch123> maybe that town is big into selling cars
00:24:27  <xiong> nat_as, Are you playing with cargodist or cargodest?
00:24:34  <nat_as> ist
00:24:45  <nat_as> what is the diffrence between the two, other than the name
00:26:59  <xiong> Good question. I'm playing cargodist.
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01:01:50  <frosch123> night
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01:32:26  <nat_as> instead of a magic bulldozer cheat, there should be a SHUT UP TOWN cheat
01:33:00  <nat_as> wont let you bulldoze anything, but WILL make towns stop bitching about there damn trees
01:33:44  <__ln__> *won't, *their
01:36:25  <flaa> HAX!
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01:54:58  <nat_as> how do I stop road veichiles from driving in circles
01:55:07  <nat_as> if they just went straight they would get where they are going
01:55:23  <nat_as> but they seem incapible of not making a turn when they have the opertunity
01:55:40  <__ln__> *incapable, *opportunity
02:00:06  <flaa> *dick, *boobs, *licquor
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02:37:27  <Eddi|zuHause> nat_as: usually means your road is blocked somewhere
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03:26:23  <nat_as> it's not cheating to use the add money tool to constantly bribe the local authority
03:26:31  <nat_as> the game practicaly forces you to do it.
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03:31:30  <DDR> That one actually never occurred to me. :P
03:32:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i never bribed a town
03:34:09  <DDR> I'll do it occasionally, late-game.
03:34:52  <Eddi|zuHause> when you have >20 stations in a town, it hardly matters
03:35:33  <nat_as> how do you GET 20 stations in a town withot bribing somebody
03:35:41  <nat_as> then aggain, I play on hilly maps with tons of trees
03:35:49  <nat_as> and nothing pisses them off more than cutting trees
03:36:07  <DDR> Worst-case scenario.
03:36:13  <Eddi|zuHause> you can build road stops, you know
03:37:10  <Eddi|zuHause> when you start in a town, build 2-5 road stops (depending on size). build trams or busses, then build the train station
03:37:11  <DDR> Long story short, nat_as, good performance at one station makes the town happy. Even if you have to start with one station, it's not too hard to build more.
03:37:55  <DDR> Hm... I like making large connected stations. One train-station, ctrl-connected to scattered bus and lorry stations.
03:37:58  <Eddi|zuHause> and after you built the train station, you can happily destroy as many trees as you want
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03:38:57  <Eddi|zuHause> the busses/trams will keep the rating up, and the trains bring in the real money
03:43:56  <nat_as> that still wont let me distroy and rebuild there nonsensical roads.
03:44:13  <nat_as> OR sometimes i have to do teraforming to even get a station connected
03:49:47  <nat_as> airplanes seem to be the best idea ever with cargo dist.
03:51:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know how people get to that conclusion... i find aircraft horribly inefficent
03:51:25  <DDR> nat_as: Hold 'ctrl' while placing a station.
04:00:22  <Mazur> Is there a way to change a village into a town in Sub-Tropical, so that one can fund a water tower there?
04:01:14  <Mazur> Because there seems to be a catch 22: for growth, water is required, but for a water tower town status is required.
04:06:39  <Eddi|zuHause> what's a "village"?
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04:07:54  <Mazur> A town that is not a town yet?
04:08:20  <Eddi|zuHause> in what game?
04:08:38  <Mazur> openttd
04:08:56  <Mazur> 1.2.0-beta3
04:09:04  <Eddi|zuHause> you realize that a water tower must be placed on top of a house, right?
04:09:14  <Mazur> No, I did not.
04:09:23  <Mazur> Lets try that.
04:11:26  <Mazur> Nice.
04:11:32  <Mazur> Thank you.
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05:54:14  <xiong> Hm. A slightly buggy AI has failed to do much -- been running for years and it has no stations, no vehicles. But it has 4,294,967,290 road pieces of infrastructure -- none of which I can see on the map. What a peculiar number, too; neither a power of 2 nor a power of 2 less 1.
05:57:04  <MinchinWeb> which AI?
06:00:35  <Eddi|zuHause> so where is your bug report with a savegame before and after you noticed this?
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06:41:46  <xiong> Denver & Rio Grande.
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08:40:04  <Terkhen> good morning
08:41:17  <Rubidium> hi
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09:04:00  <andythenorth> gninrom
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09:09:58  <planetmaker> moin
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09:34:56  <andythenorth> if I use a numeric vehicle ID in nml, is that expressed in hex or dec?
09:34:59  * andythenorth assumes dec
09:37:01  <Terkhen> dec IIRC
09:37:20  <Terkhen> yes, and you can use 0x for hex values
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10:57:05  <andythenorth> hmm
10:57:09  <andythenorth> which is better:
10:57:25  <andythenorth> - web CMS refuses to produce output which could break savegames if pasted into BANDIT
10:58:05  <andythenorth> - web CMS allows dangerous output to pass, because at least that way people are decoupled from upstream mistakes by me
10:58:06  <andythenorth> ?
10:58:28  <andythenorth> (in the second option, people could at least modify the bad output to fix it)
10:58:34  <andythenorth> whereas in the first, they just get nothing
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11:54:23  <andythenorth> nml \o/
11:54:34  <andythenorth> c pre-processor \o/
11:54:37  <andythenorth> BANDIT \o/
11:56:51  <TWerkhoven> how about option 3: on savegame breaking output, display error and ask the user to proceed at own risk?
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12:01:21  <andythenorth> :) to do that quickly would mean setting a query parameter on the url, this make it too easy to accidentally skip the error (by saving the url for example)
12:01:32  <andythenorth> doing more to handle that is tmwftlb
12:02:16  <Rubidium> just put the error in actionb in the NewGRF. Then if they want to override it, they simply need to remove it
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12:03:09  <andythenorth> would work
12:03:14  <andythenorth> I might just let them break savegames
12:03:29  <andythenorth> I don't expect many people to actually use this web thing
12:03:50  <andythenorth> the output will ship with the repo, and it needs the repo to build...
12:04:06  <andythenorth> btw, anyone want to try building BANDIT?
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12:06:16  <Wolf01> hello o/
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12:32:41  <Alberth> welcome back wolf
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12:35:03  <andythenorth> nml requires dates comma separated?
12:36:00  <andythenorth> yup
12:37:31  <andythenorth> only the year matters anyway :P
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12:51:25  <andythenorth> mmm
12:51:38  <andythenorth> also quak
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12:52:19  <frosch123> moin :)
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13:07:29  <andythenorth> industries
13:07:34  <andythenorth> might be interesting to figure out one day
13:08:34  <andythenorth> some properties are intrinsic to the industry type and are fine in newgrf (production etc)
13:08:47  <andythenorth> the open / close / availability / placement behaviour might not be intrinsic to the industry type
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13:14:19  <Wolf01> Zuu, I'm trying your tutorial, looks really nice, but I have some suggestions
13:15:30  <Zuu> okay
13:16:45  <Zuu> You might want to post your suggestions to the forums to keep thing there. But anyway your suggestions are welcome.
13:19:28  <Wolf01> just 2 things I found a bit tricky: 1) I have a newgrf for aircrafts (av8) and the aircraft you ask to build is not on the list; 2) when you ask to click on the airport to add the go-to order, you should skip to the next step, because one might not notice the order has already been added and continues to click on the airport
13:19:30  <Alberth> andy: would the difference be local versus global? (production is local, open/close is more global)
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13:23:13  <andythenorth> Alberth: I think so
13:23:31  <andythenorth> if we didn't have current spec, how should it work?
13:23:34  * andythenorth isn't sure
13:24:13  <planetmaker> then probably the game should have a global override on closing and opening
13:24:16  * andythenorth isn't convinced that a central script is the answer for example
13:24:29  <andythenorth> de-centralisation can often be better
13:24:33  <andythenorth> but in this case...
13:24:37  <planetmaker> just as there are many scenarios where you don't want industry to change
13:26:51  <Zuu> Wolf01: 1) Will not be a problem when the tutorial gets shiped as a scenario, which is the plan as soon as OpenTTD supports a work flow that doesn't require creating the scenario from scratch at each release
13:27:32  <Zuu> 2) That is planned, but GSOrder doesn't exist yet, so I can't access the orders of a vehicle. (a feature request has been created on FS)
13:28:34  <Wolf01> oh, ok, known "bugs" then ;)
13:28:54  <Zuu> yep, perhaps I should have documented them even better :-)
13:29:37  <Zuu> An open question that I've not commented on is that I plan to somehow indicate in the windows when they auto-progress and when you have to click on continue.
13:29:51  <Zuu> One way would be to use different text on the button on the two cases.
13:30:13  <frosch123> Zuu: Would it be useful if signs placed in scenario would belong to the GS? That would make the visible in game even if competitor's signs are hidden and would protect them from being edited. OTOH GS woujld see them as if the signs were placed by them. Now... would that be useful to pass information to the GS for the scenario, or would it rather confuse the GS ?
13:30:41  <Wolf01> It would be good to have a way to read previous steps in case one clicked on "continue" in a hurry
13:32:13  <Wolf01> lunch time
13:33:23  <Zuu> frosch123: I think it quite make sense if the GS ownership is the same as none ownership. But I know that in OpenTTD the GS has a diety ownership constant.
13:33:48  <Zuu> It would also make sense if the GS signs are not hidden by the "hide competitor signs" setting.
13:33:59  <frosch123> they are not .)
13:34:04  <frosch123> but scenario signs are hidden
13:34:05  <Zuu> and probably also if not signs owned by "none"
13:34:14  <frosch123> because signs of bankrupt companies shall be hidden
13:34:19  <Zuu> Oh, yes
13:34:27  <Zuu> Thats probably why I did it so
13:34:38  <frosch123> yes, there is a comment in the code :p
13:34:48  <Zuu> After having 10-20 bankrupt AIs in a game you get tired of seeing all the old signs :-)
13:36:04  <Zuu> So your suggestion is that signs placed in the scenario editor belong to the "diety" instead of "none"
13:36:10  <frosch123> yes
13:36:29  <frosch123> you could also then make the gs refer to that location
13:36:50  <frosch123> (though it cannot be too cryptic since it is player visible)
13:37:16  <frosch123> hmm, otoh the gs could read them on start and then remove :o
13:37:20  <Zuu> I think it will just be easier to hardcode coordinates or town/industry indices.
13:37:52  <Zuu> Reading them at start and then removing could do, as long as you store that information in the save game.
13:38:26  <frosch123> yes, the gs would have to save it itself afterwards
13:39:34  <Zuu> It's an interesting question and I don't know what is right or wrong on the visibility question of signs. I guess different scenario designers will have a different opninion.
13:40:14  <Zuu> Though, that setting didn't exist in 1.1, so perhaps the most transparent way for old users is that signs placed in scenario editor are always player visible?
13:40:54  <frosch123> you mean also display signs of bankrupt companies?
13:41:05  <Zuu> Hmm, nope
13:41:23  <Zuu> oh, I get your point, signs in old scenarios will be hidden.
13:41:40  <frosch123> i can convert them on load as i like
13:41:55  <frosch123> but either scenario signs behave like GS signs or like bankrupt-company signs
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13:42:05  <frosch123> i.e. i won't add a third way :)
13:42:10  <Zuu> :-)
13:44:10  <Zuu> I think for a GS you have a point that if available, you could use diety signs to mark locations. However, for the case when you have a GS closly connected to a scenario, you can as well hardcode coordinates etc. So I think the decision should be made more on what is usable for players.
13:44:42  <Yexo> not all GS have to be connected close to a scenario
13:44:58  <Yexo> for the tutorial that's obviously useful, however for other GS maybe not as much
13:45:35  <Zuu> So you suggest that in a losely connected case there could be a toolbox GS where you using signs can activate different behaviours?
13:45:40  <Yexo> you could write a GS that tracks how many cities you connect for example, where there are only x cities that count (which can be marked in a scenario by signs)
13:46:27  <Yexo> same could hold for the tutorial GS: if you use signs you can easily create a different scenario without having to modify the script
13:46:27  <Zuu> Numeric configs I guess to some point can be done in the GS configuration, but configurating locations of things is easier with signs.
13:46:39  <frosch123> what about the reverse case? would gs be surprised if they encounter signs which they did not place?
13:46:54  <Zuu> Usually not
13:47:09  <Yexo> if it's known now it can be documented and GS that don't like it can remove all signs when they're started
13:47:31  <frosch123> ok, then i make scenario signs OWNER_DEITY.
13:47:46  <frosch123> there does not seem any disadvantage to not do it that way :)
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13:50:40  <Zuu> Usually I would loop over all signs until I find one which match some criteria, so looping past an unexpected sign is not really a problem.
13:51:41  <Yexo> we might get complains from users that they can't remove scenario signs in-game (when not running a GS)
13:51:42  <Zuu> Unless of course that it triggers the criteria when it really shouldn't do.
13:52:16  <frosch123> Yexo: he, i thought it would be a feature if they are not editable :p
13:52:31  <Yexo> yes, scenario creates will see it that way ;)
13:54:00  <Zuu> ... but not those users who think they own the right to do whatever they want, including screwing their games :-)
13:54:55  <Zuu> Colud be fixed if the company cheat is extended so that you can switch to diety.
13:55:18  <Yexo> or we could tell them to load their game in the scenario editor
13:55:18  <Zuu> hmm, fixed is maybe not the right word though.
13:55:42  <Yexo> or allow those signs to be removed if the scenario developer setting is on (or script developer?, dunno which would be more fitting)
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14:12:30  <Jogio> hello "_"
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14:13:21  <appe> afternoon, germans and animals
14:13:46  *** iconiK [~iconiK@] has joined #openttd
14:14:42  <Jogio> hey you are the ape here
14:14:45  *** iconiK [~iconiK@] has quit []
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14:17:30  <appe> :)
14:20:15  <frosch123> do we need to be careful with the M-word?
14:20:59  <appe> m?
14:21:19  <appe> maltesers? mick jagger? mÃŒnchen?
14:23:00  <frosch123>
14:25:39  <appe> ah, terry pratchet <3.
14:26:08  <Jogio>
14:26:16  <Jogio> "_"
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14:36:26  * Rubidium waits for Alberth to use the M-word ;)
14:39:54  <Jogio> m*****
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14:40:40  <Jogio> i'm bored of this jokes, will go to bananas
14:43:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r23835 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Change [FS#4999]: Make signs placed in scenario editor belong to the GS. That way they are always shown in game and are not editable.
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14:53:01  <Dozzer_X> What does the infrastructure mentenance?
14:53:32  <frosch123> cost money
14:54:07  <Dozzer_X> But what does it do in fact?
14:54:11  <Dozzer_X> Something positive?
14:54:20  <Dozzer_X> Or it repairs roads?
14:54:40  <frosch123> it's more like a difficulty/balancing setting
14:54:47  <frosch123> it really only costs money
14:55:15  <frosch123> penalising many signals and redundant junctions
15:04:05  *** IchGuckLive [] has joined #openttd
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15:05:05  <IchGuckLive> hi all does a monorail not transport  Food
15:05:36  <IchGuckLive> the eagon icon is not present in 1.1.2
15:05:53  <IchGuckLive> trainwagon
15:07:24  <Yexo> depends on the NewGRFs you use
15:07:40  <Yexo> which icon exactly are you talking about?
15:08:07  <IchGuckLive> the food wagon to bay in the depo
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15:08:29  <Yexo> you're making no sense to me
15:08:44  <IchGuckLive>
15:08:46  <Yexo> try making some screenshots to show the problem
15:09:11  <IchGuckLive>
15:09:13  <Yexo> update OpenGFX
15:09:21  <Yexo> as you can read in that bug report
15:10:41  <IchGuckLive> can i update this without losing the game ?
15:10:49  <Yexo> yes
15:11:01  <Yexo> in the main menu, go to online content, click the button before opengfx, download
15:11:06  <Yexo> than load your savegame again
15:11:20  <Yexo> but why are you still using 1.1.2? You should update OpenTTD as well
15:11:27  <Zuu> Base sets can be updated without affecting your save games.
15:11:57  <Zuu> (in other way than that the new graphics/sounds/music will be used)
15:13:48  <IchGuckLive> im laying soince 20Gameyears without a food train car thats missi
15:14:24  <planetmaker> you're also missing a bunch of letters ;-)
15:15:50  <IchGuckLive> its there !
15:15:55  <IchGuckLive> Thanks
15:16:47  <IchGuckLive> whats the game aspectiv after all is connected to keep it up 75% or i got money enoff now 32Mio
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15:20:43  <IchGuckLive> Thanks to all there is now no need for conventionell rails anymore if i can transport everything  with monorail or maglift
15:22:07  <IchGuckLive> this is naybe a thing to think about Transport Tycoon is not always everything allowd it makes the game more special as you can only get serten loads on serten rails
15:22:33  <IchGuckLive> in order then you need to bring all 3 Rail systems to your mayer cities
15:23:03  <IchGuckLive> and to the plants only that that takes the  production
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15:23:45  <andythenorth> IchGuckLive: that's controlled by whichever vehicle newgrfs you choose
15:25:18  <IchGuckLive> thanks  you can transport all production by all type Bus Car Ship Train
15:26:06  <IchGuckLive> woudt be more interesting if you can only transport production by 1 or 2
15:27:17  <IchGuckLive> for example if you only can transport FOOD (as id playd ) with standard train and Street car
15:27:53  <IchGuckLive> the other way now you can do roundcourse and trains that carry everything in the round
15:28:30  <IchGuckLive> if only  food by lowspeed you need to produce in short diastance
15:28:40  <IchGuckLive> to get high value
15:29:28  <IchGuckLive> oh i see also all the signals now hase changed thats bad
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15:30:22  <IchGuckLive> ok i will stay with that till 50 game years ind then see
15:30:39  * MNIM derps
15:31:02  <IchGuckLive> Have a nice sunday its raining here
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15:31:09  * MNIM notes to self: you don't need to ./configure or make with binaries >.<
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16:04:46  <Zuu> Is there a point of the tutorial supporting changing settings like QuickGoTo in the middle of the tutorial?
16:05:36  <Zuu> Eg. does it need delayed execution of the check.
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16:11:27  <Alberth> the simplest (from the user pov) would be if you support both
16:11:48  <Alberth> but that may be tmwftlb
16:14:42  <Yexo> Zuu: checking once (just before that part of the tutorial is started) should be enough
16:15:15  <Yexo> checking at the start of the tutorial might be problematic if the users saves the game and continues later (with changed settings)
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16:16:15  <Zuu> I've now implemeted the version where it checks just before it need to tell you to do it.
16:16:49  <appe> some of you train buffs might be able to help me with this
16:16:55  <Zuu> But I realized that I could do it when the chapter is loaded and create a shorter list of steps in the memory. But I don't know if that is really a point.
16:17:04  <appe> did pobeda make train parts back in the cccp day?
16:17:13  <Zuu> Yexo: Good point
16:21:41  <planetmaker> it's sssr, appe ;-)
16:22:45  <appe> :p
16:29:35  <andythenorth> hmm
16:29:39  * andythenorth ponders
16:29:58  <andythenorth> truck weight needs to be: truck weight + (num trailers * trailer weights)
16:30:14  <andythenorth> or sum(weight of consist vehicles)
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16:43:06  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r23836 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r23145): If a vehicle is not refittable to any cargo in the CTT, then pick the first refittable cargoslot.
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17:01:56  <SmatZ> I was considering buying Portal 2, to play it in coop mode with my gf
17:02:08  <SmatZ> but then I realised I would actually have to buy 2 copies of the game
17:02:10  <SmatZ> so meh
17:02:28  <__ln__> and now you're playing OpenTTD in coop with her?
17:02:43  <SmatZ> no
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17:02:50  <SmatZ> I am not playing with her anything
17:02:54  <glx> SmatZ: just wait for some discount
17:02:55  <SmatZ> just some desk games sometimes
17:03:01  <glx> happens quite often
17:03:15  <Rubidium> SmatZ: I've heard there's a game that doesn't cost money ;)
17:03:27  <SmatZ> :-)
17:03:39  <SmatZ> maybe we should start playing ottd together
17:03:40  <SmatZ> or sth
17:03:46  <SmatZ> the life is getting quite boring lately :P
17:04:03  <SmatZ> glx: I would prefer orignal, boxed game
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17:24:05  <Guest167> hola / hello
17:24:25  <Zuu> Hello guest #167
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18:00:23  <MNIM> heh. lickable pixels. I thought pixels were hazardous for your health?
18:02:18  <planetmaker> only those with the sharp corners
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18:04:29  <MNIM> oh
18:05:09  <MNIM> what's the recommended settings for FIRS btw? I'm seriously considering switching from ECS to FIRS
18:05:29  <Dozzer_X> What does the infrastructure mentenance?
18:05:46  <Yexo> cost money
18:05:48  <Dozzer_X> It consumes 20,000,000 JCL per year, but it doesn't do anything at all
18:05:59  <frosch123> hmm, i am in the replay of today
18:06:11  <Yexo> it's more like a difficulty/balancing setting
18:06:12  <Dozzer_X> But does it give something in plus?
18:06:17  <Yexo> frosch123: :p
18:06:21  <MNIM> frosch123: deja vu, eh?
18:06:24  <Dozzer_X> Oh I understand :P
18:10:44  <andythenorth> MNIM: recommended?  Vehicles?  Game settings?  Map?
18:10:45  <andythenorth> :)
18:11:35  <andythenorth> what do you need to know?
18:12:03  <MNIM> ehh, well, parameters for the newgrf, and possibly game settings
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18:25:26  <MNIM> huh, for some reason I can't build a fishing harbour, it keeps telling me 'site unsuitable'
18:26:31  <andythenorth> MNIM: needs to be near a town
18:27:02  <andythenorth> really, industry placement needs a much better preview
18:27:06  <andythenorth> but I dunno how to do that :P
18:27:32  <andythenorth> there are no particular game settings required
18:27:50  <MNIM> ahah
18:27:52  <andythenorth> FIRS won't work so well on small or very mountainous maps
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18:28:36  <andythenorth> parameters are a matter of choice
18:28:40  <MNIM> meh, I play at 1k^2 maps standard, and I usually build a gradually rising mountain range towards one side of the mao
18:28:41  <MNIM> *map
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18:29:25  <andythenorth> I am recommending the 'improved' station rating setting, especially on big maps, and especially if you like long slow trains
18:29:31  <andythenorth> not needed for co-op style play :P
18:29:37  <Rubidium> @calc sqrt(1024)
18:29:37  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 32
18:29:41  <Rubidium> darn it ;)
18:31:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23837 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): -Feature [FS#4994]: [NoGo] Allow querying orders of vehicles
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18:42:56  <Zuu> Yay! :-)
18:44:38  <Rubidium> now you can make the code much more complex
18:44:45  <Rubidium> "heh moron, you clicked on the hangar!"
18:45:35  <Zuu> I just figured out that OpenTTD works fine in regard of upgrading GS in running games as indicated by MinVersionToLoad. So I can setup a scenario workflow that will work. Though I think I'll need some sort of makefile/script.
18:46:29  <Zuu> Before release I think what I need to do is to load the scenario with the GS set to allow load old versions, save the scenario again to update the GS version and then change the GS to not accept old versions again.
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19:06:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23838 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#5000]: assertion got hit when destroing a dock when a ship was loading
19:13:51  <Zuu> Hmm, that would need a way to load a scenario into the editor on the command line. But with a separate OpenTTD install, I might be able to do that using the scripts?
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19:15:37  <frosch123> you can load a game directly into the se from command line
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19:15:51  <Guest172> hola, alguien en español?
19:15:51  <Zuu> But that loads the game into game mode.
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19:16:10  <Zuu> I want to load a scenario into the scenario editor and save it to file and then quit again.
19:16:12  <Guest172> hola, alguen habla español?
19:16:13  <Yexo> Guest172: this channel is English only
19:16:15  <frosch123> also with -e ?
19:16:17  <__ln__> Guest172: no es permitido hablar español en ese canal
19:16:26  <Guest172> ok
19:16:46  <andythenorth> permitido un puqueno
19:16:50  <andythenorth> muy puqueno
19:16:52  <Zuu> -e doesn't take an argument it seems.
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19:17:10  <frosch123> you mean -e and -g cannot be combined?
19:17:13  <Guest172> now?
19:19:14  <Zuu> -e and -g can't be combined.
19:19:33  <Zuu> Furthermore the "load" command seems to only look for save games, not scenarios.
19:20:22  <Guest172> how can i actualice my railway?
19:20:23  <Zuu> If there was a way to load + save the scenario with the console, I could use a script file for that as there is a script that appears to run when a new game is started.
19:20:43  <Guest172> how can i actualice my railway train?
19:21:24  <Zuu> actualice? as in?
19:22:26  <Guest172> to get mono-railway
19:22:50  <frosch123> Zuu: <- makes -e -g work
19:22:56  <Guest172> and new trains
19:23:49  <planetmaker> <-- Guest172
19:24:21  <planetmaker> Guest172: and browse our wiki more :-)
19:24:28  <planetmaker> especially the tutorial sections
19:26:35  <Zuu> frosch123: looks good
19:26:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r23839 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Feature: Allow command line options -e and -g to be combined to load saves/scenarios directly into SE.
19:28:43  <Zuu> Also, it would be useful if the save command could understand to save scenarios. Eg. don't append .sav if you have .scn.
19:29:12  <Zuu> But I guess you can fix that in the filesystem by renaming the file.
19:29:25  <Eddi|zuHause> should just add "save_scenario" and "load_scenario" commands
19:30:00  <Eddi|zuHause> and "save_heightmap" and "load_heightmap" while at it
19:36:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23840 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
19:36:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:36:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 11 changes by arnau
19:36:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 11 changes by VoyagerOne
19:36:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 3 changes by lordbartjeh
19:36:02  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by Jogio
19:36:02  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 3 changes by lorenzodv
19:39:16  <Alberth> Guest172: click and *HOLD* the 'rail button' in the main display toolbar to select different rail types:
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19:43:50  <lordofwar67> Hello all
19:43:57  <Alberth> hi
19:44:18  <Alberth> you seem to be at the wrong channel, we are quite peaceful here :)
19:44:26  <lordofwar67> I have a question i just installed the new beta openttd 1.2.0-beta3
19:44:39  <lordofwar67> Right channel for such a question ?
19:44:43  <Alberth> sure
19:45:02  <lordofwar67> When i join a multiplayer game i can't see the other playes station names and such
19:45:16  <lordofwar67> Is there anyway to turn that back on
19:45:24  <Yexo> yes, under the wrench button
19:45:33  <Yexo> "competitors signs and station names" or something like that
19:45:49  <lordofwar67> Indeed i found it =) Thanks guys. Awesome there is an IRC channel for this game =)
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19:50:19  <Hirundo> I've seen plenty of questions about that, perhaps 'visible' would be a better default value
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19:54:07  <Yexo> the value is added to an existing bitmap IIRC, so while the default probably is visible already, it doesn't work for any users that update and have an existing config file
19:54:11  <planetmaker> the wrench might be a cogwheel, though
19:55:08  <andythenorth> it's always nice when the icons vary :D
19:55:15  <andythenorth> makes it much easier to support
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20:06:09  <Zuu> I tried the original graphics today for the first time in several years and that wrench actually more look like a hay stack fork.
20:14:39  <planetmaker> :-D
20:18:49  <Zuu> Now that we have GSOrders, you could order a vehicle to go to two subsequent depots and a teleport GS will know where to teleport the vehicle. :-)
20:19:16  <Zuu> The main problem with the teleport GS is that it will only work well on empty vehicles :-)
20:19:32  <Rubidium> doubtful ;)
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20:36:55  <Hirundo> What if the vehicle is no longer available for buying?
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20:40:38  <Eddi|zuHause> *don't go hunting mammoths with just one club warrior*
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20:56:47  <frosch123> did you know that you can increase the infrastructure cost of competitors by adding road pieces to their roads? :p
20:56:54  <frosch123> (turning straight road into junctions)
20:57:28  <Zuu> Hirundo: THen you spam the user with news messages and ask them to set up an autoreplace rule.
20:58:35  <Zuu> frosch123: sounds like something for rondje
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20:59:02  <frosch123> i am unsure how long it takes to pay off :)
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21:25:07  <andythenorth> hmm
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21:25:34  <andythenorth> for RVs, how about nml summarises weight of consist vehicles and applies it to lead vehicle?
21:25:38  <andythenorth> or would that suck?
21:26:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i do that in the generator script
21:26:16  <andythenorth> I'm going to do it too
21:26:24  <andythenorth> I just wonder why every author has to write python to do it :P
21:26:51  <andythenorth> on the other hand
21:26:58  <andythenorth> what weight should I apply anyway?
21:27:12  <andythenorth> if I put all vehicle weights into the lead vehicle, the TE is insanely too high
21:28:05  <andythenorth> should I add any weight at all?
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21:32:29  <Eddi|zuHause> you can calculate the TE accordingly
21:33:11  <Eddi|zuHause> (lead_vehicle_weight*original_te+other_vehicle_weight)/total_weight
21:33:51  <andythenorth> of course :)
21:33:58  * andythenorth should have thought of that :P
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21:36:42  <andythenorth> hmm
21:36:56  <andythenorth> for articulated trucks, instead of splitting capacity, I could cheat the TE
21:37:10  <andythenorth> that would require maths :P
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22:07:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r23841 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix: Clear NewGRF vehicle cache when their owner changes. (esp. vehicle var 43)
22:08:20  <MNIM> hmmmh. it's a shame you can't use multiple town name GRFs at once.
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22:14:52  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:16:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23842 /trunk/src/object_cmd.cpp: -Change [FS#5001, FS#5002]: do not let towns (ever) remove objects
22:17:02  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23843 /trunk/src/network/ (network_command.cpp network_internal.h): -Fix: minor issue with replaying ;)
22:24:44  <__ln__> interesting timelapse (germany):
22:26:35  <appe> hehe, cute
22:34:29  <SpComb> the caternary is not straight
22:34:48  <Rubidium> that's by design
22:34:51  <andythenorth> saves wear
22:35:04  <SpComb> oh, interesting
22:35:19  <Rubidium> not really saves, but spreads the wear of the pantograph more evenly
22:35:30  <Rubidium> the wear on the wire is just the same
22:35:46  <SpComb> makes sense
22:39:58  * Rubidium has access to such "movies" on a daily basis
22:40:44  <Eddi|zuHause> typically it's built so the majority of the wear is on the pantograph
22:41:15  <Eddi|zuHause> pantograph is made of weaker material (carbon), while the wire is made of stronger material (copper)
22:42:04  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: obviously a pantograph has contact to more wire per day, than a piece of wire has contact to pantographs
22:42:45  <frosch123> the length of all pantographs of all trains is certainly less than the length of all wires :p
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22:43:31  <Eddi|zuHause> hehe :)
22:43:45  <Eddi|zuHause> but the idea is that pantographs are easier to replace than wires
22:44:13  <Rubidium> and easier to inspect
22:44:31  <Rubidium> checking the wires takes a laser and quite a bit of image processing
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22:45:31  <SpComb> import opencv
22:49:17  <Rubidium> not sure whether that's fast enough when going 120 kph ;)
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23:11:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23844 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp saveload/company_sl.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r23414): Infrastructure count for stations wasn't updated properly on company takeover. And don't count buoys while loading a game either.
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23:22:44  <frosch123> night
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23:35:47  <Terkhen> good night
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