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00:02:33 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 00:02:48 <Belugas> [16:54] <Eddi|zuHause> "ten minutes before work ends"? <-- sadly, no... still "here" 00:03:08 <Belugas> i think i'll go home... to tired to think 00:03:11 <Belugas> night all 00:05:33 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0fab8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 00:10:09 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 00:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause> so... 00:10:14 <Eddi|zuHause> python -m cProfile -s time ../nml/nmlc -o cets.nfo cets.nml > profile2.txt 00:10:25 <Eddi|zuHause> says that it spends 45 seconds in binop.py:reduce 00:10:29 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 00:13:02 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 00:13:32 <Eddi|zuHause> probably "-s cumulative" is more interesting 00:14:21 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:14:36 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: Sla Mutant Co-Op for Renegade - coming back soon] 00:15:36 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 00:18:03 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/profile_time.txt 00:18:11 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/profile_cumulative.txt 00:34:56 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-169-1-73.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:41:12 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:52:31 *** lollercaust [~paper@179.Red-88-11-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:59:00 *** vodka [~paper@179.Red-88-11-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 01:02:02 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:04:51 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 01:04:55 *** Xrufuian [~link@pool-98-119-100-162.lsanca.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ...] 01:08:08 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:49 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 01:10:00 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:11:09 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 01:25:27 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 01:27:28 *** vodka [~paper@179.Red-88-11-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:36:17 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-070-244.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 01:37:56 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-174-210.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:37:58 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:38:09 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 02:03:04 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:11:59 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:12:10 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 02:16:12 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 02:17:50 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-32-35.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 02:18:20 *** Asteconn [~Asteconn@host-92-26-222-36.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 02:21:53 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:22:14 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-31-57.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:25:12 <Asteconn> Dia doaibh a chairde! 02:31:28 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 02:31:29 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:32:13 *** hbccbh [~hbc@116.27.206.82] has joined #openttd 02:35:06 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: patch is coming along. Not 100% happy with my approach though. 02:40:38 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 02:40:38 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:50:39 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 02:50:39 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:53:17 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 03:09:41 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:10:23 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 03:25:27 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:26:06 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 03:31:40 *** Westie [~westie@icarus.typefish.co.uk] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 03:36:08 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 03:36:08 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection 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Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 07:37:51 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:37:52 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:32 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 07:39:20 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.124.214.193] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:53:56 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 07:57:47 *** hbccbh [~hbc@116.27.206.82] has joined #openttd 08:02:22 *** planetmaker changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.1.5, 1.2.0-beta3 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, ever | English only 08:02:32 <planetmaker> moin 08:11:07 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:11:18 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 08:12:37 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 08:18:33 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 08:18:33 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:21:50 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 08:21:50 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27:13 *** Asteconn [~Asteconn@host-92-26-222-36.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 08:30:34 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 08:30:34 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:42:56 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:43:07 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 08:46:14 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.14.244] has joined #openttd 08:50:03 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.1.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:54:26 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54:38 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 09:04:36 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:08:16 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 09:08:16 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:08:38 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e06d2be.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:15:37 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:16:41 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:22:18 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 09:22:18 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:24:07 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:24:18 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 09:34:51 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.14.244] has joined #openttd 09:34:51 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:02 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 09:37:18 *** hbccbh [~hbc@116.27.206.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:39:14 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.14.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:41:26 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 09:46:12 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 09:46:12 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:49:03 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:49:14 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 09:56:44 *** hbccbh [~hbc@119.133.242.246] has joined #openttd 10:05:27 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.124.214.193] has joined #openttd 10:05:28 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:06:46 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 10:17:07 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:28:35 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:28:45 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 10:31:35 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:33:32 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:38:16 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 11:35:02 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 11:35:02 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:36:03 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: Sla Mutant Co-Op for Renegade - coming back soon] 11:40:43 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Quit: TTFN!] 11:41:33 *** lollercaust [~paper@179.Red-88-11-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 11:43:47 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:52:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:53:37 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111221202647]] 12:03:22 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:17 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 12:06:24 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-120-46.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 12:11:35 <andythenorth> morning 12:34:03 <Eddi|zuHause> good err... night 12:34:11 <Eddi|zuHause> :p 12:41:24 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 12:49:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 12:52:12 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:56:02 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A664.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:11:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:13:15 <andythenorth> I need some advice wrt correct thing to do with FIRS 13:13:44 <andythenorth> (1) hand over the project to a new maintainer (2) abandon it (3) fork the project from 0.6.4 (4) something else 13:22:26 <Ammler> 4 13:25:30 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:27:34 <andythenorth> Ammler: any ideas? 13:27:36 <andythenorth> I'm stuck 13:28:52 <Ammler> andythenorth: I miss context :-) you do not want to use nml? 13:29:55 <andythenorth> nml is fine 13:30:16 <dihedral> why not do 3 AND 4? 13:30:22 <Ammler> what else is different in 0.6 then? 13:30:31 <dihedral> fork the project for another maintainer and continue your own path in your own time 13:30:57 <dihedral> or - grab another maintainer to continue where you are stuck, with 2 minds instead of one 13:32:01 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 13:32:06 <andythenorth> but I figured out I can't maintain the project 13:32:06 <andythenorth> I don't understand the code base 13:32:06 <andythenorth> I'm dependent on other people to fix bugs, also same for writing new code 13:32:06 <andythenorth> I can't even get graphics into industries 13:32:06 <andythenorth> the responsible thing to do would be to hand over the project 13:32:15 <Ammler> aren't you right now basically the only dev for FIRS, so how can you get in trouble with someone else? 13:33:11 <andythenorth> Ammler: 0.6.4 is the last nfo release 13:33:19 <andythenorth> so I'd branch from there and continue with nfo 13:33:47 <Ammler> so nml isn't fine :'-( 13:35:00 <andythenorth> nfo / nml both fine 13:35:09 <andythenorth> it's more that I wrote the codebase for the nfo version 13:35:16 <andythenorth> and it's mostly commented etc 13:35:40 <andythenorth> I'm no good at working with other people's code it seems :( 13:36:32 <andythenorth> although I didn't write the code for CHIPS, and that's fine 13:37:56 <Ammler> well, if you continue on the nfo code, you basically trash the nml converting 13:38:05 <Ammler> as nobody else will continue there 13:39:37 <planetmaker> wow 13:40:05 <planetmaker> I won't argue. So tired 13:42:13 * andythenorth doesn't want to argue. I just want to do the correct thing 13:42:14 <planetmaker> but I guess I just stop to care 13:42:25 <andythenorth> usually I just do what I want then say sorry later 13:42:46 <andythenorth> but that can be bad :( 13:43:15 <Ammler> continue on the nfo code while others made the nml convering is stupid, sorry 13:43:28 <planetmaker> I still think very much you didn't even try to code a single industry without any templating 13:43:45 <planetmaker> which is the first step. But you want to skip steps 1 to 6 in learning NML and start with step 7 13:44:34 <planetmaker> I coded the whole of swedish rails without templates 13:44:44 <Ammler> I guess, you basically need to forget about nfo, which you invested much time in learning it, which is understandable 13:44:47 <planetmaker> later I introduced a few small ones. 13:45:49 <planetmaker> for what it's worth, but I'll need to be honest: I surely would be offended, if you continued FIRS in nfo. Even if I don't want to be 13:46:04 <andythenorth> yeah, I don't want to do that 13:46:24 <andythenorth> I wonder if I should try and find a new maintainer 13:46:32 <andythenorth> seems the most honest thing to do 13:46:35 <Ammler> it's not about the maintainer 13:46:49 <Ammler> it's you, who is needed 13:47:20 <planetmaker> if you come to the conclusion you don't want nml. Then doing it nfo is the right way 13:48:21 <planetmaker> While I like FIRS to the degree I like contributing code (after all I spend weeks of coding on it already), I don't feel like I want to be the maintainer 13:48:43 <planetmaker> my current time budget simply doesn't allow that. Esp. given my other projects 13:49:07 <Ammler> how would another maintainer solve the issue? 13:49:41 <Ammler> I guess, what you want is another coder :-) 13:53:27 <planetmaker> andythenorth: did you try so far to make a single industry? No templates? Just pure NML in one file? 13:53:49 <planetmaker> I think only when that is mastered, and that's not really that difficult, then you should judge 13:54:19 <planetmaker> But really, learn it stepwise. You didn't become an nfo templating master by trying to write the firs 0.6.4 code from the start 14:07:45 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:3dd2:2602:fd64:a0eb] has joined #openttd 14:07:48 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:15:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 14:16:02 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 14:18:29 *** lollercaust [~paper@179.Red-88-11-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:24:19 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has joined #openttd 14:25:05 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 14:25:59 *** Stimrol_ [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:28:20 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-78-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:28:23 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 14:28:43 *** lollercaust [~paper@60.Red-83-61-249.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 14:33:51 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-32-35.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:34:32 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-17-196.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:37:45 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-78-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:43:30 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has joined #openttd 14:43:37 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 14:45:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:58:16 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:58:32 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 15:12:16 <Belugas> hello 15:16:33 <andythenorth> o/ Belugas 15:18:38 <Belugas> sir andythenorth :) 15:28:49 *** Priski [priski@lakka.kapsi.fi] has left #openttd [] 15:35:55 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:49:41 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:49 *** Stimrol_ [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has joined #openttd 16:11:11 *** hbccbh [~hbc@119.133.242.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:11:51 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:48:51 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 16:52:56 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-019-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:54:09 *** Asteconn [~Asteconn@host-92-26-222-36.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:00:14 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-237-225.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:00:36 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-104.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:01:56 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.14.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:02:58 <LordAro> afternoons 17:09:12 *** lollercaust [~paper@60.Red-83-61-249.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:15:00 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:15:11 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 17:16:28 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 17:22:21 *** Guest538 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:26:44 *** Asteconn [~Asteconn@host-92-26-222-36.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 17:37:16 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:41:22 *** spongie [~peter@h-11-201.a254.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:41:43 <spongie> Hi guys! I always have at least one train at the station loading up, yet I don't get above 80%, how come? 17:42:30 <Eddi|zuHause> look at the "game mechanics" page on the wiki 17:42:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it explains how station rating works 17:43:10 <Eddi|zuHause> basically: "always a train waiting" gives you ca. 67%. the rest must be obtained by other means 17:44:22 <spongie> oh what other means hehe? 17:44:25 <spongie> bribes? 17:45:27 <spongie> argh, that table is too much to handle 17:46:33 <Eddi|zuHause> vehicle speed, statue, advertising, ... 17:53:28 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: any idea why a patch like this would put the makefile in an infinite loop, running the generate script over and over again? www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/generate.diff 17:55:20 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:58:14 <Mazur> First comments, sugestions, helpful tips invited on this Work In Progress: http://5ed04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl/pics/FIRS.png 17:58:36 <SpComb> not enough cowbell 18:01:18 <Mazur> Oh, everybidy's at dinner. 18:01:36 <Mazur> Ooer, a typo! 18:01:52 <Mazur> That should have been: everybiddy, of course. 18:03:54 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I looped the makefile the other day, can't remember how though :o 18:04:04 <andythenorth> it was editing the same type of code as your paste though 18:05:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: a little more structure would be nice 18:06:35 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I went back over my terminal history for clues but didn't find anything, sorry :( 18:09:03 *** glx is now known as Guest596 18:09:03 *** glx_ [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:3dd2:2602:fd64:a0eb] has joined #openttd 18:09:03 *** glx_ is now known as glx 18:09:06 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:10:22 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: iirc it was a simple typo when I looped the makefile 18:10:30 <andythenorth> but my memory ain't great ;) 18:10:53 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-073-155.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 18:11:15 <andythenorth> bbl 18:11:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:14:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23854 /trunk/src/ (core/random_func.cpp core/random_func.hpp debug.cpp debug.h): -Codechange: make it easier to put random debug stuff into the random log 18:14:52 *** Guest596 [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:3dd2:2602:fd64:a0eb] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:16:58 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 18:18:26 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:18:34 *** glx is now known as Guest598 18:18:34 *** glx_ [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:3dd2:2602:fd64:a0eb] has joined #openttd 18:18:34 *** glx_ is now known as glx 18:18:38 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:19:58 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:21:32 *** Guest598 [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:3dd2:2602:fd64:a0eb] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:30:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f6033.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:31:45 <spongie> it says the n% transported is < 100% even though I have a train waiting. "n% transported" is the station rating? im pretty sure I can transport anything that is produced or transferred. 18:33:13 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-49.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:33:54 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23855 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#5007]: out of bounds read for slowdown parameter caused desync when railtype >= 4, vehicles were fast, and the original acceleration model was used 18:40:26 *** Knogle_ [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 18:41:02 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Did you try delcaring "generate" as .PHONY? Still shouldn't produce an infinite loop I guess. 18:41:21 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: never heard of that 18:41:38 <michi_cc> http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/html_node/Phony-Targets.html#Phony-Targets 18:42:18 <michi_cc> Maybe "A phony target should not be a prerequisite of a real target file; if it is, its recipe will be run every time make goes to update that file." is relevant here. 18:44:39 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like the opposite of what i want 18:46:59 <michi_cc> Maybe let "src/engines.gnml" be the rule that does the work and give it as a prerequsite to the other two targets. 18:48:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:49:10 <Eddi|zuHause> devzone weirdness: why didn't it throw the r555 error on push? 18:50:00 <Mazur> Eddi|zuHause, how do you mean that, "more structure"? More separated? More with similar industries near eachother? DIfferent colours so it's clearer? 18:50:09 *** Knogle_ is now known as Knogle 18:50:15 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has joined #openttd 18:50:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: yes. 18:50:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: i thought of grouping it in circles and sectors 18:50:50 <Eddi|zuHause> circles: inner: town, middle: secondary, outer:primary 18:51:04 <Eddi|zuHause> sectors: agriculture, construction, manufacturing, chemical/energy 18:51:13 <Mazur> You're leaving out tertiary and quartery. 18:51:26 <andythenorth> it's a hard problem 18:51:26 <andythenorth> http://hawkdawg.com/img/rrt/rt3/1024_Industry_Chart.jpg 18:51:26 <Eddi|zuHause> there's no such thing as quartery 18:51:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and tertiary == town 18:51:42 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that doesn't really stack up for FIRS 18:51:50 <Mazur> Indeed. 18:52:06 <Eddi|zuHause> where "town" includes the shop, hotel, etc. 18:52:20 *** glx is now known as Guest601 18:52:20 *** glx_ [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:3dd2:2602:fd64:a0eb] has joined #openttd 18:52:20 *** glx_ is now known as glx 18:52:23 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:52:31 <andythenorth> my understanding of tertiary is the layer of second-secondaries 18:52:37 <andythenorth> this varies from wikipedia's understanding :P 18:52:52 * Mazur agrees. 18:52:57 <Eddi|zuHause> you can have several secondary industries in a chain 18:53:38 <Eddi|zuHause> what i mean with "secondary" is "industries that both produce and accept cargo [other than supplies]" 18:53:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: and i'd leave out the passengers 18:53:56 * andythenorth has been too grouchy recently and is going away for a bit 18:53:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 18:58:30 *** Guest601 [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:3dd2:2602:fd64:a0eb] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:58:46 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:58:46 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: devzone doesn't have grfcodec? 18:59:59 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has joined #openttd 19:01:37 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 19:01:59 <Terkhen> hello 19:02:52 *** lollercaust [~paper@60.Red-83-61-249.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 19:03:12 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: you want distro package, release or nightly? 19:03:17 *** Stimrol_ [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:03:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i need grfcodec in CETS build 19:03:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: CETS r556 fails with "command not found" 19:04:04 <Ammler> in your case, it might be easiest to add a requires file 19:04:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: how do i do that? 19:04:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: and i have a feeling "build on push" is ignored lately 19:06:17 <Ammler> echo -e "nml\ngrfcodec" > .devzone/build/requires 19:10:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: last "build on push" is from almost 3 days ago 19:11:23 <Eddi|zuHause> there were several pushes inbetween 19:15:09 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: hmm, the last build was stock, I retriggered 19:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea what happened there, that always worked before 19:17:55 * Belugas is happy. he does not have to process US taxes anymore! 19:18:35 <Belugas> Those guys are pure genious when it comes to bring in the most devilish tax policy yu can imagine! 19:18:59 <Belugas> so now, we're call ing a service that does it all for us, one shot kiss goodbye :) 19:20:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i never understood US taxes 19:20:43 <Eddi|zuHause> in europe, all retail prices must be given including tax 19:20:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and on the final summary it must be written which part is taxes 19:23:22 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 19:25:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i have a feeling by adding the "requires" file it ignores all previous requirements (coming from the "type" file, i presume) 19:26:00 *** chester [~chester@128-68-25-107.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:27:25 <Belugas> they have a5 levels of "possible" tax authorities, with tresholds, variable rates (some chages are even possible within same city different zip codes) 19:27:29 <Belugas> TOTAL ANARCHY! 19:28:05 <chester> where 19:28:23 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany they have two levels of taxes, one for food and one for other stuff... and this is constant over whole of germany 19:29:38 <ccfreak2k> Eddi|zuHause, basically 19:29:41 <xiong> An Advanced Setting allows sending money to other companies. I have it ON. How do I actually send money now? 19:29:48 <ccfreak2k> there's federal taxes, and state taxes, and county taxes. 19:29:59 <ccfreak2k> Going between cities could yield different totals. 19:31:19 <Belugas> yup 19:31:30 <Rubidium> you're talking about VAT, right? 19:31:38 <Belugas> yup 19:31:41 <chester> usa has no vat 19:31:42 <Belugas> or rather... VATs 19:31:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: since Belugas is in the cash register business, i thought that was implied 19:32:17 <Belugas> Value Added Tax, which means: tax added at the tilt 19:32:28 <Rubidium> then we got three (0%, 6% and 19%) 19:32:30 <xiong> US cities, counties and states impose sales tax; not quite the same thing but similar. 19:32:51 <Eddi|zuHause> what has 0% VAT? 19:33:09 <Belugas> some of those taxes are added on top of others 19:33:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the levels are 7% (food) and 19% (luxury) in germany 19:33:40 <Belugas> exemptions are sometimes encoded as 0%, which is a nice hack 19:33:44 <Eddi|zuHause> where not all food is actually in the food category 19:33:50 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: buying prescribed medicin, some banking stuff 19:33:52 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: International airplane tickets for example. 19:34:34 <Rubidium> yeah, rabbit feed is 6%, guinea pig feed is 19% ;) 19:35:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23856 /trunk/src/lang/ (french.txt german.txt latvian.txt slovak.txt welsh.txt): 19:35:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 19:35:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 21 changes by OliTTD 19:35:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 3 changes by planetmaker 19:35:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 4 changes by Parastais 19:35:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: slovak - 19 changes by dafree 19:35:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: welsh - 4 changes by kazzie 19:35:19 <Eddi|zuHause> to make things worse, there's also some non-food in the food category 19:35:31 <Belugas> yeah to the craziness! 19:35:50 <Eddi|zuHause> like, staying at a hotel (wtf?!?) 19:36:23 <chester> i heard of a man who eat planes 19:36:41 <Eddi|zuHause> eating at the hotel restaurant, however, is non-food 19:36:50 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EA2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:36:54 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EA2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37:43 *** lollercaust [~paper@60.Red-83-61-249.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:38:22 <xiong> No search reveals any explanation of sending money. Wiki, forum, SE, all come up dry. 19:38:28 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: "nml\ngrfcodec" <-- I didn't forget nml ;-) 19:38:41 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: can send money from the client list 19:39:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: yes. but since when do i follow advise? :) 19:39:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: it seemed illogical to have to give nml twice 19:40:29 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:40:34 <supermop> hello! 19:40:43 <supermop> i have an obnoxious idea! 19:41:15 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: there are other ways but this seems easiest in your case 19:41:23 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:41:23 <supermop> has refitting locomotives been properly sorted out yet? 19:41:27 <supermop> or do they still need a cargo? 19:41:46 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: they still need a cargo, but you can set capacity to 0 19:42:04 <supermop> ok thats not ideal but would work 19:42:10 <Eddi|zuHause> so you don't need a special cargo, just can pick an existing one 19:42:33 <supermop> can different refits have different running costs? 19:42:43 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 19:42:49 <supermop> ok great 19:42:59 <supermop> and different introduction dates? 19:43:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 19:43:23 <supermop> nice! 19:43:30 <supermop> and the big if: 19:43:53 <supermop> can a locomotive influence the decay rate of it's carriages? 19:44:16 <frosch123> what decay rate? 19:44:20 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the VAT seems to be different in BÃŒsingen and Helgoland though ;) 19:44:21 <supermop> cargo 19:44:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that should be the other way round: the carriages check the locomotive 19:44:52 <supermop> i cant think of any other way to model desirability than decay rate 19:45:03 <frosch123> ah, you can if you define the wagons yourself. i.e. the locomotive cannot change the wagons, but the wagons can change their rating depending on the locomotive 19:45:37 <supermop> but lets say a streamlined locomotive is prettier than the same engine stripped of its exterior 19:46:04 <frosch123> you don't see the engine when sitting inside the train :p 19:46:05 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: the easiest way i can imagine is to use the user-bitmask for that 19:46:05 <supermop> there is no way yet for 'prettiness' not increase station rating or cargo payments 19:46:19 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: and reading that in cb36 for the decay rate of the wagon 19:46:20 <supermop> but you could abuse passenger decay rate 19:46:31 <frosch123> but you can increase the running cost without streamlined stuff 19:46:48 <supermop> to simulate the public liking the shiny new train 19:46:57 <supermop> well i was think that but 19:47:23 <supermop> streamlining increases fuel efficiency, so reduces running costs, 19:47:47 <Eddi|zuHause> you can have a low-speed running cost and a high-speed running cost 19:47:52 <supermop> but it makes maintenance more difficult, so it should also increase running cost 19:48:25 <supermop> i figured it would be more simple to fake a 'desirability' of the train 19:49:17 <supermop> so you could have generic steam train, introduced 1920 running cost x, decay rate y 19:49:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:49:36 <supermop> 5 years later, streamlined refit becomes available 19:49:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: anyway, how can a build be "stuck" for 3 days? shouldn't you have like a timeout? 19:50:16 <supermop> running cost more or less equal to x, or a bit higher, decay rate 0.8y 19:50:34 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: yes, we "should" :-P 19:51:02 <frosch123> supermop: mind that you cannot autoreplace between refits 19:51:18 <frosch123> so, upgrades are no easy business for the player 19:51:27 <supermop> then austerity refit say 15 -20 years later (avoid wartime naming), with running cost 0.7x, decay rate 1.5y 19:51:27 <frosch123> if they are done via refitting 19:52:03 <supermop> well the player decides whether he wants to overhaul his stock to the fancy new fairings or keep the old ones 19:52:15 <Elukka> if you refit a locoomotive to a cargo with a capacity of 0, will it still break 'full load all' commands? 19:52:24 <Elukka> (ie, the train will wait forever for a cargo that can't be loaded) 19:52:25 <frosch123> supermop: but he would have to replace every single engine manually 19:52:29 <frosch123> no autoreplace 19:53:10 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: also the player won't get informed of the new refit/upgrade options via news message 19:53:18 <supermop> hmm 19:53:32 <Eddi|zuHause> which is both something i hellishly hate about av8 19:53:59 <andythenorth> autoreplace / renew and subtype tricks don't play nicely 19:54:20 <supermop> it seems like it would still be better than selling your streamlined trains to buy new trains meant to simulate the old streamlined trains with their fairings stripped off 19:54:45 <andythenorth> supermop: I think you're applying 'logic' 19:54:53 <supermop> anyway i did preface this by saying it was an obnoxious suggestion 19:55:04 <andythenorth> whereas you might be better applying 'we are where we are' :) 19:55:14 <supermop> heh 19:55:18 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: in CETS we update the livery based on last service date, but without any gameplay effect 19:55:53 <supermop> but i like to micromanage my fleet, cascading crappy trains down to freight or branch lines 19:56:08 <supermop> so maybe i'm the only audience for this idea 19:56:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D52B.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:56:47 <supermop> and parking my really old trains in a yard outside a depot 19:56:47 <andythenorth> or you play the wrong game :) 19:56:54 <Eddi|zuHause> "micromanagement" is generally a bad idea. the game needs to provide means for "macromanagement" 19:57:17 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: there's a bit of a flaw with that.. if you don't play with servicing/breakdowns, liveries will never be updated 19:57:25 <Elukka> i dunno if there's a better option though 19:57:39 <supermop> also take those 3 refits i mentioned 19:58:03 <supermop> lets call them ginzu a4 mk i, mk ii, and mk iii 19:58:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: one idea was that the running cost could be increased if not servicing 19:58:05 <Elukka> i stopped playing with servicing when i realized trains suck at finding paths to depots 19:58:08 <Elukka> that was a while ago though 19:58:25 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 19:58:27 <Elukka> it always messed up all my trains when they'd try to find a depot 19:58:51 <supermop> maybe a set has those as three separate locomotives instead 19:58:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: another idea was to offer a switch to update the livery "immediately"/"on service"/"never" 19:59:15 <Elukka> i think that's the best idea 19:59:19 <supermop> with the hidden option to refit a mk i to mk ii spec 20:00:24 <supermop> that way if you buy a mk i one year before the mkii comes out, it's not immediately obsolete or superceded 20:00:36 <Eddi|zuHause> where "never" actually means "depends on build date" 20:00:56 <Eddi|zuHause> (so some later liveries might be unavailable) 20:03:14 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:28 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:03:32 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.166.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:03:34 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:16 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A664.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:07 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host101-141-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:08:50 <Wolf01> hello 20:08:50 <__ln__> ciao 20:13:34 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-101-195.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 20:13:38 *** Asteconn [~Asteconn@host-92-26-222-36.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:14:08 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:19:20 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:20:38 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0e27b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:23:40 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:24:34 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:28:28 <SmatZ> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/01/25/Imitated_Image_Copyright_Case ... I don't want to live in this world anymore 20:28:36 <SmatZ> also, ACTA signed by EU countries today 20:30:01 <__ln__> great news 20:32:29 <SmatZ> http://www.explosm.net/comics/2684/ anyone chinese here, who would translate that for me? :) 20:32:34 <SmatZ> xiong ? :-) 20:33:00 <xiong> Sorry, SmatZ; I'm not Chinese. 20:33:42 <SmatZ> no problem xiong, sorry for not knowing what nationality you are 20:33:58 <__ln__> you are not required to be Chinese, it's enough to read Chinese 20:34:16 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: the question is wrong. should be "anyone know chinese"? 20:34:28 <SmatZ> yes, I know the question was wrong 20:34:49 <SmatZ> but anyone who knows chinese could say "I am not chinese, but I can translate it for you" 20:34:58 <SmatZ> but yes, I should have asked better :) 20:35:17 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: do you know chinese, by any chance? :) 20:35:20 <xiong> Sorry, SmatZ; I can't translate Chinese. 20:35:31 <xiong> Yes, I should have replied better. 20:35:50 <SmatZ> thank you xiong; it's not your fault my question was not exact :) 20:36:11 <xiong> Your question was clear. Sorry I can't help. 20:36:25 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:36:40 <xiong> Does anyone have the least idea how to send money to another company? Or is this one of those purely theoretical features? 20:36:54 <SmatZ> xiong: you can send money to player 20:36:58 <SmatZ> in multiplayer 20:37:09 <SmatZ> (I don't know why it's designed that way) 20:37:18 <xiong> Okay. How? 20:37:18 <SmatZ> just open the Client list (in-game) 20:37:37 <SmatZ> select the client, and choose "send money" 20:38:23 <SmatZ> (press LMB on the client, keep it pressed, and choose "send money") 20:38:29 <SmatZ> or "give money", I think 20:38:55 <xiong> Where might this Client list be? 20:39:30 <__ln__> http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Finn+suspected+of+years+of+espionage+for+Stasi/1135270267893 20:41:05 <SmatZ> xiong: http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/xxx.png 20:42:15 <SmatZ> xiong: http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/xxx2.png 20:43:30 <xiong> I'm sorry if I'm being obtuse. I don't know what you're doing to open the Client list in the first place. 20:44:20 <SmatZ> xiong: I open the Client list by pressing LMB on the "face" icon in the main toolbar (as seen in http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/xxx.png ) 20:44:46 <xiong> Ah. The face icon. Thank you. And only in multiplayer. 20:45:42 <xiong> So I've backed myself into a corner by starting in single player. 20:46:06 <frosch123> in single player you have to go via cheats 20:46:20 <frosch123> add 10M to the other, subtract 10M from you 20:46:31 <xiong> I don't understand why there's a distinction between the two modes. What's the difference between playing single and running a multiplayer game without anybody else invited? 20:47:33 <xiong> BTW, I feel I have to say, No, I'm not purely antisocial. My schedule is just irregular and offbeat. I've tried online games and either it messes up my sleep and work... or I mess up the game. 20:47:57 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 20:51:09 <frosch123> some things are technically not possible to do in multiplayer. so, to make it fair we forbid some stuff in singleplayer, too :p 20:53:47 <Eddi|zuHause> tbh, i never understood the "feature" that makes you give money to clients, not companies 20:54:12 <Eddi|zuHause> it always sounds like a hack has gone horribly wrong 20:54:20 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: patches to change that are welcome 20:55:11 <SmatZ> and yes, moving the "give money" button to the Company Information screen has been discussed a few times ;) 20:55:20 <SmatZ> but nobody has ever implemented it 20:55:25 *** cornjuliox [cornjuliox@202.128.63.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:55:29 <frosch123> i always thought it is because you know the players you chat with, but you do not know the random company names of them 20:55:56 <frosch123> and judging company colour from nick names can be hard for some colours 20:56:16 <SmatZ> the player can tell you the company name 20:56:22 *** lollercaust [~paper@60.Red-83-61-249.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 20:57:03 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: maybe, but still you can't give money to "yourself" in a "one-player" multiplayer game 20:57:57 <SmatZ> I would welcome the ability to give money to AIs 20:58:02 <SmatZ> or AIs give money to me 20:58:04 <SmatZ> :) 20:58:45 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:59:06 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it should be totally reworked, so you can transfer money by buying shares 21:00:34 <SmatZ> I think OpenTTD is about building & transport, it's not an economy simulator 21:02:10 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but we have a share system, and it's pretty useless. also we have a give money system that is pretty useless. by combining the two, it may become something useful 21:03:55 <Eddi|zuHause> also by tieing it to shares, you can impose limits 21:03:58 <SmatZ> or something even more useless :) 21:04:16 * SmatZ is thinking 21:04:26 <Eddi|zuHause> like you can't buy more than 49% shares 21:04:55 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-13-59.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 21:05:09 <SmatZ> I am not sure that is really needed 21:06:19 <SmatZ> eg. a system of "I will borrow 1M from you in the exchange of 10% of my income in the next 10 years" doesn't seem to fit into openttd 21:06:28 <SmatZ> but maybe it would e fine... 21:06:29 <SmatZ> I don't know 21:06:40 <SmatZ> in #openttdcoop, there are never problems with money 21:07:08 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: it would also be a possibility to replace the money-borrowing mechanism with selling shares 21:07:36 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-237-225.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."] 21:07:43 <Rhamphoryncus> There already is a system for borrowing money. It's a loan. From the bank. 21:08:00 <Eddi|zuHause> so "max loan" would be equivalent to "49% shareholder value" 21:08:18 <SmatZ> :) 21:08:36 <Eddi|zuHause> which means it will properly scale throughout the game 21:08:59 <SmatZ> it could scale even over 49% 21:09:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's not "repay loan after 2 years, and then forget about it" 21:09:23 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: that has some implications over company control 21:09:51 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: not sure if that should be modelled 21:10:02 <SmatZ> and when more than 50% of shares is sold, players for that company could control the other company, but not vice versa 21:10:04 <xiong> Anybody who thinks it's too easy to earn money; try chillpack with 7 AIs. After 18 years, yes, I'm way ahead and money isn't a problem. But the first decade is a bit tougher. 21:10:08 <SmatZ> it wouldn't be hard code-wise 21:10:23 <Eddi|zuHause> selling >50% shares may mean "i want to sell my company" 21:10:32 <SmatZ> (well, swapping the company you are playing at would need a GUI) 21:10:50 <SmatZ> still... 21:11:18 <xiong> Isn't shuffling money between multiple zerg companies specifically frowned upon on most servers? 21:12:06 <SmatZ> xiong: you can't give someone money you have borrowed from the bank 21:12:26 <SmatZ> so it's not like "start a new company, give all money to company X, let that company bankrupt" 21:12:42 <xiong> I hope you mean, you can't send money when you're in debt. 21:12:49 <SmatZ> yes 21:13:25 <SmatZ> when your bank ballance is 1.2M, and you have 1M borrowed from the bank, you can give someone at most 0.2M 21:14:16 <xiong> But you might roll up a nice wad using underhanded tactics and skim off the profit to another company before you get busted out by server admin. 21:15:00 <Wolf01> 'night 21:15:05 <SmatZ> nn Wolf01 21:15:05 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host101-141-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:15:23 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 21:15:47 <SmatZ> xiong: the admin might kick/ban the IP you are connected from 21:16:02 <SmatZ> so you are kicked from the server from both companies 21:16:07 *** Asteconn [~Asteconn@host-78-145-98-201.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 21:16:23 <xiong> Yes. That's why hardworking zergers switch IPs. 21:16:52 <xiong> OT: We had considerable issues with that sort of cheat when playing Diplomacy. 21:17:01 <SmatZ> would anyone do that just to cheat in openttd? 21:17:12 <xiong> Dunno. Good question. 21:17:45 <xiong> I gather most of the OTTD multiplay is cooperative so cheating really makes no sense. 21:18:17 <frosch123> i am not so sure about that 21:18:46 <frosch123> those goal servers do not look so cooperative, but rather cheat as much as allowed 21:19:50 <Eddi|zuHause> my (limited) experience with multiplayer is that it's mostly "stay out of each others way", with the occasional "flatten the whole map" sprinkled in 21:22:19 <frosch123> players do the latter also in single player 21:24:24 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:26:39 <supermop> hello 21:29:16 <__ln__> hallo 21:29:23 <SmatZ> holla 21:30:32 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-169-1-73.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 21:30:53 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 21:30:54 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #openttd [] 21:32:54 <supermop> can one code stations in nml yet? 21:37:39 <Terkhen> to my knowledge, no 21:38:20 <supermop> ok 21:47:47 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 21:48:36 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-23-72-20.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:48:42 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:49:10 <supermop_> nice we got a little 4g hotspot to take on site visits 21:49:30 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:40 *** supermop_ is now known as supermop 21:53:24 *** Asteconn_ [~Asteconn@host-2-98-160-177.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 21:55:03 *** Asteconn [~Asteconn@host-78-145-98-201.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:55:06 *** Asteconn_ is now known as Asteconn 22:08:59 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 22:09:25 <andythenorth> Yexo: does $ have any significance in nml currently? 22:11:00 <supermop> maybe you should pay yexo some $ to get the features you want in nml? 22:11:24 <V453000> :D 22:11:42 <Rubidium> I guess you're better off offering ⬠22:11:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:11:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:12:50 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest623 22:12:50 *** Guest623 [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:50 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:12:51 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 22:14:07 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest624 22:14:07 *** Guest624 [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:07 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:14:08 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 22:16:44 <supermop> i'd say yen would be a bit more desirable at the moment 22:17:28 <Rubidium> why? That's been weak for decades 22:18:13 <supermop> its very strong at the moment 22:19:03 <supermop> a dollar buys 77 yen today versus 120 in 2005 22:19:30 <andythenorth> hmm 22:19:38 * andythenorth has just invented python templating 22:19:45 <andythenorth> only it already exists 22:19:48 <__ln__> but does that tell more about the yen or the dollar? 22:20:07 <andythenorth> this is fortunate, because my implementation might suck 22:20:33 <supermop> yen actually, everyone spent 2011 using it as their safe bet due to worries over the euro 22:20:36 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: fancy trying to see if python templating can replace more cpp? 22:20:41 <andythenorth> http://docs.python.org/release/2.5.2/lib/node40.html 22:21:17 <andythenorth> not sure I understand how to use it yet 22:25:09 *** spongie [~peter@h-11-201.a254.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:25:28 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-019-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 22:26:19 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.124.214.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:29:54 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: wait, how many languages is openttd using now? 22:30:48 <andythenorth> hmm 22:30:55 <andythenorth> this could work - for simple nml cases at least 22:31:57 <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: around 70 22:32:10 <Rhamphoryncus> .... *programming* languages :P 22:32:16 <andythenorth> variadic cpp macros work, but they stink 22:32:40 <andythenorth> they look nothing like the string replacement / templating sane people use 22:33:25 <andythenorth> ${something}_better 22:33:49 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: [18:04:00] planetmaker: any idea why a patch like this would put the makefile in an infinite loop, running the generate script over and over again? www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/generate.diff <-- you have a circular dep. Where you touch the files with the gen script which depends on the files 22:33:59 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A664.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:34:09 <Rhamphoryncus> Gimme another 20 years and I may have a better language for you ;) 22:34:26 <Rubidium> then ~10 22:34:38 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: oi 22:35:05 *** Asteconn [~Asteconn@host-2-98-160-177.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:36:16 *** Steve^ [~steve@host-78-149-164-39.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 22:36:21 <planetmaker> 22:37 Eddi|zuHause: [19:09:19] planetmaker: devzone doesn't have grfcodec? <-- it does. But by default it knows NML and NFO projects. Thus it uses one or the other template. You can use a custom requirement thing so it has also grfcodec 22:36:38 <Rubidium> C, C++, Objective-C, sed, awk, bash, vbs, squirrel, sh, Makefile 22:36:45 <Rubidium> oh, nfo 22:37:06 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-23-72-20.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20120118081945]] 22:37:22 <frosch123> also strgen and settingsgen :p 22:37:33 <frosch123> and projectfilegen? 22:38:34 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:38:43 <Rhamphoryncus> x_x 22:39:18 <Rubidium> those aren't that general purpose 22:39:44 <Rubidium> in the first ten you could probably write a Turing machine, the latter four probably not 22:39:47 <Rhamphoryncus> most of those I expected. objective-c and vbs? 22:40:05 <Rubidium> objective-c = osx 22:40:21 <Rubidium> vbs = version determination / project file regeneration on Windows 22:40:29 * Rhamphoryncus nods 22:40:40 <Steve^> Is there a changelog for releases? 22:40:49 <Rhamphoryncus> All reasonable and justified. Still makes quite the list. 22:41:09 <frosch123> Steve^: there is a changelog next to every download 22:41:24 <Rubidium> Steve^: from which download is the changelog missing? 22:41:32 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:41:40 <frosch123> there is of course also a summary on the wiki 22:41:44 <Steve^> Ah yes, I see it 22:41:50 <Steve^> frosch123: that sounds more like what I want 22:42:03 <Steve^> I basically want to know what's been going on since I last played 22:42:09 <frosch123> search for "release history" or so 22:42:27 <frosch123> it lists major new features and links to the manual in most cases 22:42:35 <Steve^> perfect, thanks 22:43:04 <andythenorth> this has no context without the input file...but it works: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/974/ 22:43:37 <andythenorth> this is the input file, which still contains a lot of cpp, but also some ${} templating http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/975/ 22:43:58 <andythenorth> 'python pre-processor' :) 22:43:59 <andythenorth> ppp 22:44:02 <andythenorth> p^3 22:44:45 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:45:35 <andythenorth> hmm 22:45:41 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 22:45:48 * andythenorth wonders if cpp defines are still relevant 22:45:51 <andythenorth> I kind of like them 22:45:52 <andythenorth> a lot 22:46:43 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:48:31 <andythenorth> hmm 22:49:36 <andythenorth> which is more readable? 22:49:38 <andythenorth> ${truck_id}_switch_cargo_subtype 22:49:39 <andythenorth> or 22:49:44 <andythenorth> ${truck_id_switch_cargo_subtype} 22:50:08 <andythenorth> the second example would require a concatenation elsewhere 22:50:39 <andythenorth> and couples the template and all the calls to the template more horribly 22:50:57 <andythenorth> the first example is clunkier, but better decoupled 22:59:39 <andythenorth> hmm 22:59:50 <andythenorth> cpp #if is still useful 22:59:59 <andythenorth> although I dislike it 23:01:44 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 23:02:51 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f6033.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:36 * andythenorth wonders if cpp evaluates #if 1 == 2 as false 23:10:39 *** Asteconn [~Asteconn@host-92-28-200-120.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 23:21:25 <andythenorth> hmm 23:21:31 <andythenorth> string replacement is fine 23:21:37 <andythenorth> but it's limited without macros or includes 23:21:41 * andythenorth -> bed 23:21:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 23:26:52 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:28:05 <Terkhen> good night 23:28:13 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 23:28:33 <andythenorth> python templates can be chained, but it's clunk and requires a function definition afaict 23:28:41 <andythenorth> clunk / clunky /s 23:29:18 <andythenorth> maybe not 23:31:33 <andythenorth> meh 23:31:41 <andythenorth> too easy to accidentally write a generator 23:31:44 <andythenorth> generators are evil 23:31:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 23:33:50 *** lollercaust [~paper@60.Red-83-61-249.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:34:25 <SpComb> generators are the awesomeest 23:40:50 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e06d2be.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 23:42:28 *** lollercaust [~paper@40.Red-88-19-215.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 23:50:04 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: Sla Mutant Co-Op for Renegade - coming back soon] 23:50:17 *** Stimrol_ [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has joined #openttd 23:53:30 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:58:56 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd