Log for #openttd on 13th February 2012:
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00:06:34  <Nat_AS> is there any newgrifs that add a tourism industry?
00:07:07  <Nat_AS> factories that just have a high passenger rating and maybe a bit of goods/food/mail
00:07:14  <Nat_AS> like static towns
00:12:58  <Hirundo> ECS has 'tourists' as a separate cargo
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00:13:43  <Nat_AS> well that's silly
00:14:29  <Nat_AS> I could understand them as a separate subcategory of passengers. But requiring them to use different cars is silly.
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00:17:12  <Nat_AS> it would be cool if the game recognized different classes of passenger.
00:17:22  <Nat_AS> and maybe different classes of goods.
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00:17:44  <Nat_AS> they could be stored in the same cars, BUT go to different destinations.
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02:08:23  <Nat_AS> why are there no two sided path signals?
02:08:24  <Nat_AS> :?
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07:44:12  <Rhamphoryncus> Implicit state hurts my braaaaaaaaain
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10:09:23  <dihedral> greetings ye all
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10:21:31  <Rhamphoryncus> Hrm.  What's openttd's variant of malloc?
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10:22:50  <Rhamphoryncus> Oh, MallocT
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15:03:54  <tumuke> does anyone know if the stable version .debs will be available for ubuntu natty?
15:05:15  <tumuke> 1.1.4 had them
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15:22:05  <Belugas> hello
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18:06:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23942 /trunk/src/ (saveload/afterload.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Fix: infrastructure cache of standard road stops would get messed up when buying a company with them
18:22:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r23943 /trunk/src/signs_gui.cpp: -Fix (r23835) [FS#5061]: Also list DEITY signs in the signlist in SE.
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18:26:14  <Rhamphoryncus> Hey, it didn't crash!  It only took 2 days but I figured out how to save an array!  By pretending it's a string...
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18:30:13  <camilo> hi all
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18:31:50  <camilo> have been unable to join multiplayer games -- mostly I get "network - game connection lost"
18:32:07  <camilo> but sometimes "you took too long to join the server"
18:32:18  <Rhamphoryncus> What's your network connection?
18:32:38  <camilo> wifi to a cable modem
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18:32:52  <Rhamphoryncus> hrm.  Dunno then.
18:33:27  <camilo> it seems to happen since I upgraded to 1.2.0-beta4
18:33:36  <camilo> but I am not sure
18:34:13  <camilo> actually, after 20 tries or so I am sometimes able to connect, and then I can play for hours without problem
18:35:18  <Rhamphoryncus> Openttd's handling of joining is rather crude
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18:36:08  <Rhamphoryncus> Someone else I've been talking to is having similar problems
18:37:03  <Rhamphoryncus> Basically, if you ask to join it stops everything and waits for you to finish.  However, since this can be slow (maps are a lot of data to download) and nobody can play in the mean time it has a short timeout
18:37:56  <camilo> that's a pity.. should download before joining, and then apply a diff to bring your client up to speed
18:38:10  <camilo> or something like that
18:38:42  <Rhamphoryncus> Should.  It'd actually just need a large buffer for your client and maybe a way to have your time run fast until caught up
18:38:43  <camilo> hate to think my 20 tries to join have been causing pauses in other people's play
18:40:00  <camilo> will try downgrading to 1.1.5 & joining smaller servers
18:40:05  <camilo> i mean smaller maps
18:41:46  <camilo> then again, it might be something wrong with my connection... maps are only 1.5 MB or so
18:43:55  <camilo> thanks
18:44:53  <Rhamphoryncus> np.  Wish I was more help.
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18:57:42  <Rubidium> the pausing is actually to prevent even less people from joining due to the large amount of "difference" that's generated
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18:58:22  <Rubidium> as there's also a limit to the amount of time you may take from having downloaded the game up to you are 'in sync'
18:59:35  <camilo> yeah.. but I wasn't having any troubles before
19:00:03  <Rubidium> we added timeouts, which are generally good
19:00:11  <Rubidium> except when using large maps or slow connections
19:00:24  <camilo> it's either the update or my ISP
19:00:39  <Rubidium> in which case it is up to the server *owner* to properly configure their server so people can join
19:01:26  <Rubidium> do you also have problems with the #openttdcoop welcome server? (1.2.0-betta4)
19:01:32  <camilo> just compiled 1.1.5 -- will see if it is any better
19:01:43  <Rubidium> probably not
19:01:46  <camilo> I haven't tried that one
19:02:20  <camilo> with 1.1.5 at least I'll have more servers to chose from
19:03:54  <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: yeah, I'm sure there's a good reason for it, but it's also problematic so there's got to be a better compromise
19:04:29  <camilo> now that I think of it, I actually joined that openttdcoop server without problems
19:04:37  <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: better in what sense?
19:04:57  <camilo> so it is the server configuration?
19:05:05  <Rhamphoryncus> Not screw over people on only moderately fast connections
19:05:53  <planetmaker> camilo, there's a timeout setting which servers can set
19:06:26  <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: so we should 'balance' it to 'slow connection' + 'huge map'?
19:06:31  <planetmaker> and of course it then depends on that setting (how long the server is patient before you timeout) and how fast you actually get the savegame (thus connection speed of you and / or the server)
19:06:51  <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: No, let one person connect in the background while people continue to play
19:07:01  <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: that is possible
19:07:07  <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus, that's the default(?)
19:07:35  <Rhamphoryncus> planetmaker: that's not what openttdcoop's public server does and it doesn't sound like it's the default
19:07:45  <camilo> Rubidium, it is only the connection that presents an issue, in my experience, once I managed to join, I never timed out
19:07:54  <planetmaker> not sure we use the default, Rhamphoryncus :-)
19:08:00  <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: even if you have to give them a 10 meg buffer that's really not much
19:08:05  <Rubidium> there... even worse, if it's the default... then the server owners conciously changed the setting
19:08:25  <planetmaker> it's basically an ancient cfg we use which gets updated from time to time till our server works nicely :-)
19:08:27  <Rhamphoryncus> I can't imagine why such a setting would even exist
19:08:34  <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: the amount of network traffic after downloading is negligable
19:08:45  <Rubidium> but...
19:08:46  <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus, denial of service is impossible by that setting
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19:09:00  <Rubidium> when games progress many clients have enormous trouble trying to catch up to the server
19:09:10  <Rhamphoryncus> planetmaker: So it's a work-around.  The better solution is to limit the number of outstanding joins
19:09:17  <planetmaker> no
19:09:24  <Rubidium> as they need to *calculate* all game states between the savegame and the current state of the server
19:09:55  <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: just buffer since they started connecting.  Thus the 10 megs
19:09:59  <Rubidium> and if you download for 3 minutes, that means you need to execute 3 minutes of gameplay before being at that point
19:10:07  <Rhamphoryncus> yup
19:10:22  <Rhamphoryncus> Disabling the viewports would probably help that
19:10:27  <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: the buffer would just contain the commands, which are negligable
19:10:37  <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: viewport is also somewhat negligable
19:10:53  <Rubidium> the calculation of the different game states, that's not negligable
19:10:59  <Rhamphoryncus> If you're not talking the CPU load of having them fast-forward then what?
19:11:41  <Rubidium> OpenTTD does 'fast forward' when catching up with the server
19:12:00  <Rubidium> but as I said, servers in later states are so CPU heavy that fast forward is maybe 50% faster
19:12:23  <camilo> so, is it during that 'fast forward' that clients time out?
19:12:39  <Rubidium> that's one of the places where clients can time out
19:12:47  <Rubidium> either typing the password takes too long
19:12:50  <Rhamphoryncus> I've played with that.  The rendering is the largest consumer for me.  If I shrink to a small window then fast-forward goes much faster
19:12:53  <Rubidium> or downloading the map takes too long
19:13:08  <Rubidium> or fast forwarding to the current server state takes too long
19:13:24  <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: in MP fastforward some drawing steps are actually skipped
19:13:40  <camilo> oh.. so in my case it might be a CPU thing (playing on a netbook), rather than a connection thing (relatively fast)?
19:13:44  <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: Not in SP?
19:13:47  <Rubidium> or because the client didn't reply fast enough to the server (within IIRC 15 seconds of sending a ping)
19:13:51  <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: no
19:14:04  <Rubidium> camilo: it might be any of them
19:14:17  <Rubidium> flaky network, not enough cpu, maps being too big, ...
19:15:03  <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: regardless, if they could keep up with MP once connected, then they will eventually catch up while connecting
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19:15:23  <Rubidium> eventually yes...
19:15:33  <ET> hey
19:15:57  <Rhamphoryncus> As long as the UI still operates then I see no problem with that.  It's much better than outright failing
19:16:01  <ET> does anyone know how to get a hold of the forum owners? I forgot my username, and can't log on
19:16:09  <Rubidium> 3 minutes, 50% faster than the server, means you're still 1:30 off, so in the end you need 6 minutes to catch up to the server and thus your mouse clicks actually reacting in any reasonable way
19:16:13  <planetmaker> ET, write an e-mail
19:16:23  <ET> to what address?
19:16:42  <Rubidium> after all, if you're 3 minutes behind the server sending a command to build a road or rail takes 3 minutes before it comes back to you!
19:17:09  <Rubidium> which means "I doesn't work" and thus people disconnect
19:17:26  <Rhamphoryncus> So display something saying you're still catching up
19:17:31  <Rubidium> as such the limit's default is much lower (half a minute IIRC)
19:18:24  <planetmaker> ET, but on the other hand, how w/o your user name can one possibly identify you?
19:18:34  <ET> I'll check later. in the meantime, I have a question that I have been struggling with
19:18:49  <ET> I have two airports, one inside a city, one at a transfer point
19:18:50  <Rubidium> planetmaker: by the email address he sent the email from?
19:18:51  <planetmaker> ET, or do you have any approximate idea?
19:18:57  <planetmaker> Rubidium, true
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19:19:55  <ET> I can't see to figure out an order for the transfer point to transfer all cargo, and wait for a full load of any cargo. What always seems to happen is the cargo is unloaded, then loaded right back
19:20:10  <Rubidium> but the networking code is (IMO) already complex enough; I don't fancy adding even more state and things that could possibly go wrong
19:20:33  <planetmaker> ET, "transfer and leave empty"
19:20:52  <Rhamphoryncus> ET: you want to transfer AND load up for a return trip?
19:20:52  <ET> the problem is that I don't want to leave empty
19:20:53  <planetmaker> two-way transfer does not work
19:21:02  <ET> exactly
19:21:11  <planetmaker> exactly. That's how it is :-)
19:21:18  <ET> blagh
19:21:37  <planetmaker> There are ideas how to change that. But they all have a heavy impact on the CPU usage of the game
19:22:07  <planetmaker> look for things like cargodistribution of yacd in the forums...
19:22:22  <ET> will do - thanks
19:22:22  <planetmaker> cargodist is an often-used abbreviation
19:23:58  <ET> BTW - is the the main forum?
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19:24:43  <planetmaker> depends on the definition of "main forum". But is part of it
19:25:05  <planetmaker> it has more topics than openttd. But it's the "official" openttd forum. As far as official goes
19:27:28  <ET> the de-facto main forum. where most people post/answer
19:27:39  <planetmaker> yes, that's it
19:30:36  <camilo> well, got to go
19:30:40  <camilo> thanks again
19:30:50  *** camilo [] has quit [Quit: camilo]
19:31:43  <ET> I will have to try yacd and/or cargodist
19:31:48  <ET> it looks like fun
19:32:09  <ET> in the meantime, I guess I will have two planes, one for each direction :/
19:33:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23944 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
19:33:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:33:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 10 changes by OliTTD
19:33:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by NG
19:33:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 46 changes by Stabilitronas
19:33:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 4 changes by akasoft
19:33:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 1 changes by nglekhoi
19:35:18  <Rhamphoryncus> Beware, they can get the same result
19:36:04  <Rhamphoryncus> What can work is you put both airports in a city, but have feeders that transfer to them, not from
19:36:36  <Rhamphoryncus> That way the incoming is consumed immediately
19:37:06  <ET> I can see the conflict, if they arrive at the same time. I suppose I could use a timetable
19:37:33  <ET> two airports, one for incoming, one for outgoing?
19:38:01  <planetmaker> that's the common solution, yes
19:38:59  <ET> seems more stable than relying on timing... I'll give that a shot
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20:01:46  <ET> is there a way to slow down time? I play on fairly large maps, and the future vechicles come too quickly
20:02:56  <frosch123> you can play in pause mode
20:03:15  <frosch123> there is an advanced setting to allow construction while paused
20:04:01  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:09:38  <ET> that should work perfectly - thanks
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21:29:29  * andythenorth age.years() = age.years() + 1
21:30:41  <Terkhen> hello
21:30:49  <valhallasw> andythenorth: you are assigning to a function call. Are you sure you want to do that?
21:31:05  <andythenorth> it's a getter / setter of some kind
21:31:20  <andythenorth> it knows which side of the assignment it's on :P
21:31:21  <SmatZ> valhallasw: age.years() could return a reference
21:31:37  <SmatZ> (not that I like references...)
21:32:42  <SmatZ> (actually, I really dislike them)
21:33:07  <TrueBrain> it should be avoided at all costs, in my opinion :D
21:33:36  * SmatZ hugs TB :)
21:33:57  <valhallasw> SmatZ: right, yeah, that would work. Exactly the reason why I hate references in C++ ;-)
21:33:58  <TrueBrain> tbh, I really hate & in general ...
21:34:07  <valhallasw> with pointers, I at least know that I'm aiming at my foot
21:34:09  <TrueBrain> int b = 1; a(b); printf("%d
21:34:13  <TrueBrain> int b = 1; a(b); printf("%d\n", b);
21:34:18  <TrueBrain> no fucking way to know what it will print ...
21:34:26  <SmatZ> yup :)
21:34:27  <TrueBrain> valhallasw: 100% agree :D
21:34:28  <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: congrats on the rollover anyway
21:34:56  <TrueBrain> I dont understand which retard came up with it tbh .... explicit over implicit, in my book, but meh :D
21:35:34  <andythenorth> is andythenorth the oldest here?
21:35:39  <andythenorth> probably
21:35:44  <SmatZ> 27 here...
21:35:53  <Rhamphoryncus> 29
21:35:54  <frosch123> andythenorth: i doubt that
21:36:01  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: nobody is older than Belugas
21:36:02  * andythenorth > Rhamphoryncus > SmatZ
21:36:03  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: you book?
21:36:09  <SmatZ> *your
21:36:10  <Rhamphoryncus> :D
21:36:17  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: english saying?
21:36:23  * Rhamphoryncus torments his lesser!
21:36:23  <SmatZ> :P
21:36:26  <frosch123> TrueBrain: andersI is the oldest on the forum probably
21:36:32  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: have you written a book?
21:36:43  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: never got passed the thank-you notes
21:36:50  * andythenorth currently is probably 'writing the most code whilst holding babies or toddlers'
21:36:56  <andythenorth> is a safe bet
21:37:04  <SmatZ> :)
21:37:20  <frosch123> andythenorth: belugas' son is in school or so
21:37:45  <andythenorth> thereby leaving Belugas free to write *high quality uninterrupted code* :P
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21:37:59  <TrueBrain> I have yet to see that day :D
21:38:01  * TrueBrain hides now
21:38:07  <SmatZ> :)
21:38:10  *** Chruker [] has quit []
21:38:40  * andythenorth wtfs at BROS thread one more time
21:38:59  * SmatZ has to find a lot of women, just to impregnate them, broaden his seed, and then continue living alone
21:39:19  <SmatZ> or with one or two women of my choice...
21:39:57  <frosch123> liar!
21:40:02  <frosch123> you would fly to the next planet of course
21:40:04  *** lmergen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:40:07  <TrueBrain> Jessica Alba, and who else?
21:40:09  <SmatZ> :)
21:40:38  <frosch123> oh, with "living alone" you probably meant the journey to the next galaxis
21:40:51  <SmatZ> nah :)
21:41:11  <SmatZ> that way I would be alone for very very long time
21:41:14  <SmatZ> maybe for ever :P
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21:41:27  <frosch123> aliens do not care
21:41:34  <TrueBrain> did you ask them?
21:41:37  <SmatZ> if I meet any...
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21:44:19  * andythenorth ponders learning how recolor sprites work, as it's now a solved problem
21:44:47  <frosch123> if it's a solved problem, just move on to the next one :p
21:45:00  <andythenorth> good point
21:45:23  <andythenorth> the next one is drawing
21:45:27  <andythenorth> I'm trying to avoid that
21:45:37  <Belugas> TrueBrain is right, even I am still waiting to see that day :)
21:45:42  <frosch123> is there a way to declare it "solved" ?
21:45:50  * TrueBrain hugs Belugas :D
21:45:52  <SmatZ> hehe
21:46:03  <andythenorth> drawing?
21:46:10  <andythenorth> I could use a procedural truck generator
21:46:17  <andythenorth> sounds like a problem for frosch123's
21:46:42  <Belugas> the point is, i was not able to write decent code while at work, and when coming at home, late at night, i was not really... in the best shape to do so ;)
21:47:14  * Belugas wants to have a sabatic week, month, year!
21:47:19  <TrueBrain> life!
21:47:30  <Belugas> why not?!!
21:53:42  * andythenorth wonders if the 'proportion of capacity put on truck from 1st trailer' really needs to be a configurable property
21:54:06  <andythenorth> where's foobar when you need an engineer to calculate the loading on a beam?
21:54:37  * andythenorth might just make it 0.4 and be done with it
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21:55:28  <Rubidium> frosch123: AndersI already enjoys his retirement?
21:55:43  <Rubidium> if not, I'll raise you a "wallyweb"
21:55:50  <frosch123> meanwhile... liekly
21:56:02  <frosch123> oh, wallyweb... yeah, that one might beat andersi
21:57:20  <frosch123> i think both have a 4 in front of their hexadecimal age
21:59:09  <Rubidium> guess I need to drop to hexal to reach that
21:59:45  <Belugas> [15:48] <TrueBrain> andythenorth: nobody is older than Belugas  <-- honestly? I thnk Albert is
21:59:52  <Belugas> but by a small margin
22:00:00  <andythenorth> alberth is not here :)
22:00:13  * andythenorth claimed oldest in this channel :P
22:00:22  * andythenorth writes some code
22:00:53  <frosch123> andythenorth: do you even have a 3 in front of your hexage?
22:01:03  <andythenorth> my hexage?
22:01:04  <andythenorth> no
22:01:38  * andythenorth has now adopted nml, and will shortly be forgetting how to count in hex
22:01:39  <Belugas> neither do I, i have a 2!
22:01:46  <Rubidium> hmm... my half life is less than a minute :(
22:01:49  <frosch123> Belugas: how many days left?
22:01:53  <frosch123> :p
22:03:25  <Belugas> more or less, 300 ;)
22:03:38  <Belugas> then i'll be 30
22:03:59  <frosch123> hmm, i have only around 100 days left before some other 30 :p
22:04:28  <Rubidium> but 300 is ~100h ;)
22:05:13  <frosch123> [22:13] <Rubidium> hmm... my half life is less than a minute :( <- there is no isotope of rb with such a short time
22:05:23  <Belugas> okok... 12C
22:05:25  <Belugas> pffff...
22:06:04  * andythenorth feeds the python
22:06:32  <andythenorth> everything got much better recently wrt writing code
22:06:54  <Rubidium> frosch123: basically everything with a mass number > 90 or < 77
22:07:13  <frosch123> yeah, just found the extended list
22:07:18  <andythenorth> how about we replace newgrf with runtime python? :o :D
22:08:33  <Terkhen> andythenorth: there was an attempt that used Squirrel IIRC
22:09:09  <frosch123> just encode ottd into a video, and keep on watching it
22:10:17  <SpComb> replace openttd with Python
22:10:28  <frosch123> replace python with openttd
22:11:32  <Terkhen> replace both with C#
22:11:38  <Terkhen> or even better, HTML5
22:12:18  <andythenorth> we could have a whole new class of exciting errors
22:12:33  <andythenorth> python means we could experiment with unclosed for loops
22:12:40  <frosch123> andythenorth: you should teach dorpsgek to code grfs
22:12:42  <SpComb> openttd html5/js runtime
22:12:52  <frosch123> he basically bored all day
22:13:04  <frosch123> hmm, that a verb
22:13:27  <michi_cc> andythenorth: <- Not my first forum post, but close ;)
22:13:37  <andythenorth> html 5 means we could have lots of exciting cross browser issues
22:14:04  <andythenorth> 'new group system (chrome r41524 or webkit nightly 12135 only)
22:14:10  <glx> and a big IE6 problem ;)
22:14:19  <andythenorth> 'infrastructure maintenance: FF 10 only'
22:14:31  <frosch123> michi_cc: hmm, my second post is also about such kind of topic
22:14:38  <andythenorth> IE6 is no problem, it just doesn't work for that
22:15:31  <andythenorth> ho
22:15:40  <andythenorth> michi_cc: that's kind of where we ended up :)
22:15:40  <andythenorth>
22:15:41  <michi_cc> My first one was even more annoying :)
22:15:46  *** ET [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
22:15:55  <frosch123> my first one was a yapf bug report :)
22:16:06  <frosch123> quite detailed actually
22:16:56  <TrueBrain> pff, at least I made a patch befre I joined the forums
22:17:22  <michi_cc> My first post: bug report + fix for a small realistic acceleration patch; second post: complaining that nobody cares about the patch :p
22:17:23  <frosch123> hmm, not sure, but might also hold for me
22:17:24  <andythenorth> michi_cc: we achieved newgrf sanity within 7 years of your post :)
22:18:22  <frosch123> newgrfs turn 10 this year. someone has a nice (maybe trollish) idea how to celebrate it?
22:19:17  <TrueBrain> delete it from OpenTTD!
22:19:17  * andythenorth was going to release lots of stuff to celebrate :P
22:19:20  <V453000> releasing the worst train set ever?
22:19:29  <andythenorth> V453000: you're working on that?
22:19:32  <V453000> yes!
22:19:49  <SpComb> release GRFv2
22:19:56  <michi_cc> We did :)
22:20:02  <SpComb> backwards-incompatible
22:20:03  <frosch123> exaclty :p
22:20:12  <TrueBrain> invisible set?
22:20:31  <V453000> no, unfortunately visible (unfortunate for the viewer that is)
22:20:45  *** Phoenix_the_II [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:21:42  <frosch123> TrueBrain: we have a great variety of invisible trains
22:21:50  <andythenorth> release a brainfuck -> nfo compiler?
22:21:51  <frosch123> there are at least 3 grfs defining such
22:22:00  <andythenorth> with some killer new feature that everyone wants?
22:22:04  <andythenorth> hmm
22:22:15  <andythenorth> combined xml + brainfuck format
22:22:27  <frosch123> andythenorth: i guess ottd would rather fit with "whitespace"
22:22:31  <michi_cc> whitespace
22:22:57  <frosch123> yeah :) tabs, spaces and newlines
22:24:15  <frosch123> hmm, using syntax highlighting for whitespace is cheating
22:24:37  <Rubidium> pff...
22:25:14  <Rubidium> just use a brainfuck whitespace-ish language where the value of the previous character needs to be xor-ed with the value of the current character to get the actual byte to execute ;)
22:25:29  <Rubidium> now that's going to fuck with your brain
22:26:09  <frosch123> <- hmm, just discovered something new :)
22:27:00  <andythenorth> Rubidium: but to meet user demands, encode all that within valid xml tags
22:27:42  <andythenorth> that would be an interesting namespace
22:28:39  <andythenorth> hmm
22:28:47  * andythenorth boggles at polyglot
22:29:14  <frosch123> <tab/><space/><nl/>
22:29:37  <andythenorth> we could have converted nfo to xml
22:29:58  <andythenorth> <20/><1A/><FFFF/>
22:30:16  <frosch123> are tags allowed to start with digits?
22:30:23  <andythenorth> probably not
22:30:42  <andythenorth> <h20/><h1A/><hFFFF/>
22:30:42  <frosch123> <byte value="1A"/>
22:31:02  <andythenorth> <comment value="nfo is very easy"/>
22:31:15  <frosch123> <cbresult value="3B"/> <- quite high level
22:31:20  <Rubidium> <byte><hex>1A</hex></byte>
22:31:22  <Rubidium> or...
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22:32:05  <andythenorth> frosch123: <cbresult> <- cheating
22:32:10  <Rubidium> <byte><multiply><add><hex>1A</hex><var>foes</var></add><dec>2</dev></multiply></byte>
22:32:57  * andythenorth is pretty certain that's what was intended every time 'it should be xml' was written
22:33:58  * andythenorth has no idea how to write a parser / lexer but thinks that this would be a good April 1 release item
22:34:27  <andythenorth> I'll write a grf for it if someone wants to waste their time on it :)
22:34:31  <frosch123> too much work even for 1st april :)
22:34:50  * andythenorth is thinking that grfs could be written by running a parser / lexer backwards on the nfo :P
22:34:57  <Rubidium> we should make the savegame a xml
22:35:04  <Rubidium> that's much simpler
22:35:13  <andythenorth> that would make it ~1GB for a small map?
22:35:36  <Rubidium> <savegame><byte><char>O</char></byte><byte><char>T</char>....</savegame>
22:35:42  <SpComb> <save><data encoding='base64'>....</data></save>
22:35:52  <andythenorth> there was something that xml was actually sane for
22:35:52  <frosch123> the question is whether saving the map as xml might savegame conversion easier :p
22:36:06  <andythenorth> was it newgrf config that is valid for xml?
22:36:09  <Rubidium> should be pretty easy to make xml, pretty useless to read the xml
22:36:45  <frosch123> <tile x="1" y="10"><owner>town</owner><road bits="NW SW"/></tile>
22:37:50  <frosch123> andythenorth: action 14 is a bit yaml like
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22:37:56  <andythenorth> indeed
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22:38:12  * andythenorth needs code that draws 8 angles for this truck
22:38:58  <frosch123> my irc client does not consider dots as part of urls
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22:39:24  <andythenorth>
22:40:03  <frosch123> good, is want to stay on "ground"
22:40:09  <frosch123> *it wants
22:40:37  <frosch123> anyway, either the engine is too long, or the trailers are too short
22:41:05  <frosch123> those proportions make it actually look silly
22:41:19  <SpComb> what's wrong with trains :(
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22:41:58  <andythenorth> isn't it written somewhere that openttd is a train game?
22:41:58  <frosch123> yeah, andy should switch to trains; then he does no longer need rv wagons :p
22:42:08  <andythenorth> I no longer need rv wagons anyway
22:42:12  <andythenorth> what I need is artists :P
22:42:14  <frosch123> andythenorth: probably somewhere on tt-ms
22:42:32  <frosch123> [22:54] <andythenorth> what I need is artists :P <- so, how old are your babies?
22:42:46  <andythenorth> not old enough
22:42:54  <DDR> andythenorth: Given volume per mode, I'd say it's more of a ship game... :P
22:43:06  <frosch123> my 4 year old nice can already draw rapunzel towers
22:43:42  <andythenorth> what happened to multi-stop docks? :P
22:44:17  <frosch123> [22:54] <andythenorth> not old enough <- mind, they do not have to draw with a fixed scale for ottd
22:44:38  <andythenorth> frosch123: one of them can manage lines
22:44:50  <Rubidium> any scale except realistic would be okay for OpenTTD, wouldn't it?
22:44:56  <andythenorth> I could just scan them in and ship it
22:45:10  <andythenorth> I'm sure if I put the right title on bananas I'd get a lot of downloads
22:45:17  <andythenorth> 'omg awesome trains' or something
22:45:23  <frosch123> title does not matter
22:45:41  <andythenorth> what's the secret to winning bananas then?
22:46:04  <andythenorth> being on there longest?
22:46:08  <frosch123> never release an update
22:46:29  <andythenorth> need to update eGRVTS
22:46:41  <frosch123> original vehicle names is already in position 22
22:46:54  <frosch123> i am quite sure it was not there when released
22:47:16  <frosch123> aren't the first two egrvts and gts somewhat the same?
22:47:49  <frosch123> hmm, "hover bus"... maybe the name has an effect
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22:49:15  <andythenorth> if I release 'underground metro' I'm pretty certain I'll got top 10
22:49:19  <andythenorth> even if it's a troll :P
22:49:24  <andythenorth> invisible trains :P
22:51:04  <Zuu> Another good reason for keeping PAXLink long way down on my list of things to do :-)
22:51:26  <frosch123> you mean pathzilla?
22:51:44  <frosch123> or is that not by you as well?
22:51:48  <Zuu> Nope
22:51:55  <Zuu> Only another z-guy
22:51:59  <frosch123> ok, sorry, i tend to assume 50% of the ais are yours :)
22:52:06  <Zuu> hehe
22:52:29  * andythenorth -> bed
22:52:31  <andythenorth> good night
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22:52:55  <Zuu> Though I currently "win" both the gs and gslibrary category :-)
22:53:41  <frosch123> s/win/own
22:54:47  <Zuu> Not really. I only have 40% of the libraries and 60% of the game scripts. Where I would not really say that the tutorial is just my work as there have been several other contributors to the tutorial.
22:55:13  <Zuu> :-)
22:56:47  <Zuu> Oh, total download for SuperLib (AI-edition): 526 602
22:57:56  <Zuu> That's way more than the sum of all my other content.
23:05:09  <Zuu> The average per version is however not more than 28 164 downloads.
23:06:35  <frosch123> night
23:06:38  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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23:52:14  <supermop> hi!
23:52:35  <supermop> anyone still awake over there?
23:55:08  <Terkhen> kind of
23:56:49  <supermop> ah
23:57:34  <supermop> is it possible to have a locomotive that can couple to any other locomotive, but only to one type of wagon?
23:58:49  <supermop> (in this case locomotive would be the unit of a MU with a cab, the wagon would be the unit without)

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