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00:09:18 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 00:12:38 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-053-202.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:21:57 <Wolf01> 'night 00:22:00 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host101-141-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:22:00 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-213-49-111-135.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 00:33:35 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 00:39:39 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 00:56:04 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 00:57:34 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@cm-188.126.201.147.customer.telag.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:01:59 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 01:04:34 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:09:14 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19347.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:10 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-98-237.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:35:42 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.12.40] has joined #openttd 01:36:48 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.12.40] has quit [] 01:37:15 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 01:37:20 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.12.40] has joined #openttd 01:38:28 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.12.40] has quit [] 01:39:01 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.12.40] has joined #openttd 01:42:43 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:47:13 *** Firartix [~artixds@108.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:48:13 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.12.40] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:49:24 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.12.40] has joined #openttd 01:58:20 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 02:01:53 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@57.Red-88-19-214.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:35:46 *** Nat_as [83bf2240@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 02:36:03 <Nat_as> Hmm, here's a question 02:36:18 <Nat_as> is there any way to limit the maximum framerate when in fast forward mode. 02:36:35 <Nat_as> because on a fast computer that feature can be a problem, it goes too fast. 02:36:53 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-66-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:37:19 <Nat_as> it used to be you could sort of adjust it by turning full animation and full detail on and off, but now it does not seem to have an effect on framerate 02:37:29 *** heffer_ [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:30 *** heffer [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has joined #openttd 02:37:33 *** luckz [~lkz@luckz.de] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 02:37:34 *** luckz [~lkz@luckz.de] has joined #openttd 02:37:55 <Nat_as> on my netbook fast forward is handy, but on my big gaming rig time progresses too fast. 02:42:18 <glx> fast forward uses as much cpu as it can (it removes all limits) 02:48:32 <Nat_as> yeah, i understand that, but if there was a way to make the game go faster without going into maximum overdrive that would be cool 02:48:37 <Nat_as> esp on modern computers 02:55:50 <Elukka> it's not a problem for most people know as far as i can tell, but it is one that is sure to become one in the future 02:56:02 <Elukka> would be nice to have a dropdown menu on it maybe 02:56:15 <Elukka> with a couple different speeds and also a max speed option 02:56:21 <Elukka> (no, i am not going to code this) 03:05:34 <Nat_as> lol 03:05:40 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 03:05:47 <Nat_as> it's something that will become more and more of a problem as mores law progresses 03:05:51 <Nat_as> more's 03:06:13 <Nat_as> right now it's only a problem for people who like to play retro games on nice computers 03:06:28 <Nat_as> on the other hand I laugh at people who have FPS issues in Dwarf fortress 03:06:31 <Nat_as> :P 03:47:34 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:4ef:f374:9026:6c03] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:47:56 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:54:53 *** namad8 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:56:43 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 04:12:09 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 04:19:02 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 04:31:30 *** kais58 [~kais58@cpc2-cwma8-2-0-cust293.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 04:32:05 *** kais58 [~kais58@cpc2-cwma8-2-0-cust293.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 04:32:09 *** kais58 [~kais58@cpc2-cwma8-2-0-cust293.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has 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Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 07:30:31 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has joined #openttd 07:31:22 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 07:36:03 *** Firartix [~artixds@108.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:57:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A3E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:01:03 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:02:28 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 08:07:43 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 08:45:43 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50:43 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 08:50:43 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50:52 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 08:54:09 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 08:54:53 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Quit: Time to die] 09:00:29 <dihedral> good morning 09:00:39 <dihedral> Rubidium, thanks :-) 09:01:59 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:09:16 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.209] has joined #openttd 09:11:42 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@178.248.252.209] has joined #openttd 09:11:42 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:11:47 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@178.248.252.209] has quit [] 09:24:04 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:30:05 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:52:29 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.12.40] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:53:07 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.12.40] has joined #openttd 09:58:58 <appe> morning 10:09:22 <peter1138> anyone au fait with c#, threads and locking? 10:09:35 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@cm-188.126.201.147.customer.telag.net] has joined #openttd 10:10:42 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B744E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:11:26 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B744E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:20:43 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:20:52 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 10:31:18 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:34:40 *** Xaroth_ [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 10:34:58 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:09 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-104.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 10:49:44 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:49:59 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:56:03 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:58:30 *** chester [~chester@128-72-160-173.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 11:04:16 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 11:05:28 *** Xaroth_ is now known as Xaroth 11:15:44 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-118-80.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:18:12 <planetmaker> ha, finally, the BundesprÀsident resigned. 11:18:25 <Eddi|zuHause> took him long enough... 11:18:36 <planetmaker> yep. at least 6 weeks too long 11:18:56 <planetmaker> oh, welcome back, Eddi|zuHause :-) 11:19:16 <Eddi|zuHause> at least 2 full months... 11:19:20 * MNIM congratulates Eddi|zuHause. 11:19:46 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: what for? 11:19:51 <planetmaker> ^ 11:20:25 <MNIM> well, for the loss of your bundesprasident. (excuse my lack of umlaut. not using US-int) 11:20:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it's more planetmaker's president than mine :p 11:21:19 <planetmaker> oh, he was never mine 11:21:29 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-35-120.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:21:33 <Eddi|zuHause> well, but he was from niedersachsen :p 11:21:42 <planetmaker> Can't say I voted for him there either ;-) 11:22:02 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-39-94.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:22:05 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 11:22:37 <planetmaker> I kinda always had the impression that he plays in the Robert Koch liga 11:24:22 <Eddi|zuHause> well, now that there are two pirates in the Bundesversammlung, there's a chance they will nominate Georg Schramm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chBjNF9aBN8) :p 11:24:46 <planetmaker> hehe 11:24:46 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-48-28.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:24:49 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 11:25:23 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:25:29 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-118-80.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:26:39 <andythenorth> mornink 11:26:55 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.wahlrecht.de/lexikon/bundesversammlung.html <- members of the "electorate council" of the president 11:30:15 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-39-94.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:34:02 <Eddi|zuHause> my estimate is that the government won't risk another "close" election and instead pushes for a "common" candidate over all "democratic" parties 11:34:49 <Eddi|zuHause> by the numbers on that page, the government would only have a 2-4 vote (absolute) majority 11:35:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and they had problems the last time with a ~40 vote majority 11:36:13 <Eddi|zuHause> "democratic parties" is conservative code for "not the left" :p 11:38:00 <planetmaker> nor the ultra-right 11:38:02 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.1/20120210023155]] 11:38:35 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but there's a difference between 3 votes an 125 votes... 11:38:52 <planetmaker> @calc 125/3 11:38:53 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 41.6666666667 11:39:00 <planetmaker> about a factor of 42 :-P 11:41:20 <TrueBrain> Pi = 3 = 2 = 1, so meh, its nothing 11:42:16 <planetmaker> but only for small pi 11:43:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can make pi smaller by eating some 11:45:51 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, the validity of the statement "1 = nothing" highly depends on the operation ;-) 11:46:23 <TrueBrain> 1 = nothing is just silly 11:46:33 <TrueBrain> we are not in the business of making nothing :) 11:48:33 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [] 12:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the most obscure suggestion i heard today: "they should make sarkozy the german president, because merkel likes him so much, and his reelection in france is questionable" :p 12:22:34 <MNIM> hahaha 12:22:39 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:27:35 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:30:04 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@57.Red-88-19-214.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 12:37:36 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... operator priority/semantics: wth does a line like this do? Command & c = *current_cmds.top().cmd; 12:47:40 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:52:05 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 13:07:53 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Both operators . and () have the same higher precedence than operator *, and . () are left-to-right associative. 13:08:11 <Eddi|zuHause> so * is applied at the end? 13:08:32 <michi_cc> If the compiler works according to the precedence rules, yes :) 13:09:42 <michi_cc> This is the same reason why you can't dereference a 'std::vector<struct A *>::iterator i' by doing *i->aa, but have to do (*i)->a. 13:11:36 <Eddi|zuHause> sure. if you know the priorities, this is probably all very logical :) 13:19:32 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:27:20 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-110-44.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 13:35:23 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-110-44.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:35:49 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-98-237.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 13:37:53 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@57.Red-88-19-214.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:47:09 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:47:31 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@154.Red-83-52-212.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 13:50:24 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:54:46 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@154.Red-83-52-212.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:57:45 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:00:40 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:50a4:2f26:49f9:6864] has joined #openttd 14:00:43 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:33:59 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 14:34:08 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.12.40] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:39:13 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:32 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 14:58:47 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 15:00:18 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:01:12 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-247-68.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:05:21 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-48-28.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:54:25 <Ammler> someone able to use the 64bit linux nightlies? 15:57:54 <Ammler> is it useful to count the time for password input for joining too? 16:01:45 <dihedral> you want me to test? 16:03:36 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:04:18 <Ammler> I am on it right now :-) 16:04:33 <dihedral> ok 16:04:47 <Ammler> join ps and wait too long for pw input 16:04:52 <Ammler> then the server crashes 16:05:14 <Ammler> ah, you mean the 64bit binary? 16:05:21 <Ammler> that would be neat, indeed 16:06:08 <Ammler> hmm, this time, server stays up 16:06:34 <Ammler> anyway, why is the input time also part of the joining time? 16:06:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B9BF.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:14:40 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-050-224.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 16:15:06 *** krinn [~krinn@183.210.73.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 16:15:43 <krinn> hi 16:15:56 <Rubidium> Ammler: because there can only be so many conections, and it's pretty easy to write something that connects N times, goes through all the steps to get the request for the password and then nothing but starving the server 16:16:04 <krinn> TrueBrain, i found my AI error, i've put the infos on the bugreport 16:16:44 <krinn> it's a bad recursive call, the VM/openttd goes oom and crash 16:17:06 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: which you can do regardless 16:17:31 <Rhamphoryncus> And given how tight the map download timeout is to begin with it'd make sense to at least have a separate timeout for password entry 16:17:50 <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: what makes you think they are related? 16:17:52 <Ammler> well, we can rise the timeout 16:18:10 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: that was my impression. I could be wrong of course. 16:18:35 <Ammler> Rubidium: they are just tested 16:18:51 <Rhamphoryncus> And I've hit the password timeout because I checked the IRC channel for it after it asked me for the PW. It's obviously a very short timeout 16:19:12 <Rubidium> IIRC it's 30 seconds per password 16:21:45 <dihedral> would it then not make sense to require passing the password in the join packet? 16:21:52 <Ammler> ok, they aren't, but that changed somehow too the last year, right? 16:22:11 <dihedral> it is alreayd known that the passwords (server and/or company) are needed 16:22:13 <Ammler> and it isn't 30 secs 16:22:32 <Rhamphoryncus> dihedral: indeed. The server could say "connection refused; password needed" and the client could behave to the user just the same as before 16:23:00 <Ammler> I am sure, I had a lot more time to input the password before 16:23:08 <dihedral> the client would behave the same way, just postponing sending the join packet until the user has entered both passwords 16:23:25 <Rubidium> Ammler: you had infinite time, which makes starving the server easy 16:23:48 <Rubidium> and someone actually did starve a server so it was more than time to do something about it 16:24:03 <Ammler> so, if I get the input password mask nobody else was able to join that time? 16:24:18 <Rubidium> no, someone else can join 16:24:52 <Rubidium> *but* if I open 255 OpenTTDs and let them join and let them wait while I do not enter a password, then nobody can join 16:25:06 <Rubidium> as amount of players and such is checked *before* the password 16:25:29 <dihedral> Ammler, enable per IP max connections in iptables :-P 16:25:48 <Rubidium> ofcourse I don't need to open OpenTTD for that, just need to write a small script that does that 16:25:59 <Ammler> ah ok, well the crash at first time was something else, I wouldn't have rised this question without :-) 16:26:03 <dihedral> and then xargs it ^^ 16:26:25 <FLHerne> Ammler: I have 64 bit Linux, what needs testing in the nightly? 16:26:57 <Ammler> do you use the generic nightlies from openttd? 16:27:25 <FLHerne> Not normally, but I can get them... 16:27:53 <Ammler> yes, those do not work here, can you confirm? :-) 16:28:06 <FLHerne> Will try 16:28:10 <Rubidium> Ammler: SDL 2? 16:28:32 <krinn> you mean nightly linux openttd doesn't compile or run ? 16:28:37 <Ammler> 1.2.14 16:29:01 <Ammler> krinn: no, the generic nightlies from openttd.org do not work here 16:29:26 <Ammler> if I build self, I have working bins 16:29:27 <dihedral> i can start the copy i just downloaded - 'does not work here' might have to be more detailed ;-) 16:29:43 <krinn> Ammler, oh you mean the binaries so ? 16:30:01 <Ammler> yes, how else do you get 64bit from openttd.org? 16:30:08 <Ammler> what* 16:30:23 <Rubidium> it works for me 16:30:27 <Ammler> :-P 16:30:52 <krinn> well, openttd.org provide source, and you can build it 64bits, that's why i ask binaries ones or not 16:30:54 <Ammler> well, it does not complain about mising lib or so like before 16:31:21 <dihedral> krinn, the source is not 64bit ;-) 16:31:22 <Ammler> krinn: yeah, sorry 16:32:07 <Rubidium> Ammler: I guess it's caused by some library that you updated locally 16:32:10 <Rubidium> no clue which one though 16:32:24 <Ammler> bash: ./openttd: cannot execute binary file 16:32:26 <Rubidium> maybe freetype? 16:32:35 <Ammler> that's the whole output 16:32:46 <Rubidium> and what does ldd and file say? 16:32:48 <dihedral> strace ./openttd ? 16:32:49 <krinn> chmod +x :) 16:33:05 <FLHerne> Seems to work - starts, generates map, plays... 16:33:09 <Ammler> not a dynamic executable 16:33:24 <FLHerne> Kubuntu 11.10, x86_64 16:33:43 <dihedral> Ammler, sure you got the 64bit version? 16:33:54 <krinn> linux will also tell you that if you try running a 32bits binary with a 64bits kernel without 32bits support 16:34:16 <Ammler> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1114/ 16:34:25 <dihedral> krinn, ubuntu will tell you that 16:34:44 <Ammler> dihedral: the path does hopefully confirm that ;-) 16:35:49 <Ammler> someone non ubuntu here? 16:35:55 <krinn> me, but 32bits 16:35:57 * Rubidium 16:36:04 <FLHerne> Me, but PPC 16:36:13 <dihedral> i am too 16:36:19 <dihedral> fc currently 16:36:32 <Rubidium> are you really running a 64 bits operating system? 16:36:32 <krinn> did you try "file openttd" ? 16:36:48 <Ammler> Rubidium: :-D 16:36:50 <dihedral> Rubidium, hihi 16:37:29 <Ammler> he 16:37:45 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@77.163.150.18] has joined #openttd 16:38:08 <dihedral> :-O 16:38:15 <dihedral> Ammler! 16:38:17 <dihedral> i hope not! 16:38:18 <Ammler> installing SDL-devel and try to build 16:38:32 <Ammler> this is a very young system :-) 16:38:36 <dihedral> Ammler, uname -a? 16:38:39 <Ammler> but yes, it is 64bit 16:38:56 <Ammler> hmm 16:38:59 <Ammler> maybe not 16:39:00 <krinn> just do file openttd it will tell you the loader need on it 16:39:30 <Ammler> could it be, I used the wrong suse image last time I installed :-D 16:39:32 <krinn> openttd: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, BuildID[sha1]=0x5a963baca627e5e01417294914812963f32a8266, stripped 16:39:33 <krinn> (that's the 1.1.5 amd build) i don't know where u get the nightly 16:39:40 <Ammler> omg 16:39:57 <dihedral> lol 16:40:38 <Ammler> let us come back to the password timeout issue :-P 16:40:46 <krinn> :) 16:41:00 <dihedral> Ammler: you are more amusing than my worst clients :-P 16:41:06 <dihedral> i do not believe this :-P 16:41:46 <Ammler> well, when do you check arch of a installed system, when you are used to use 64bit there? 16:42:07 <dihedral> is it YOUR computer? 16:42:18 <FLHerne> What is the password timeout issue? If I know, I can come back to it :-) 16:42:21 <Ammler> ah, let us speak about timeout 16:42:24 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc2-cwma8-2-0-cust293.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:42:32 <dihedral> lol 16:42:56 <Ammler> this 64bit issue was just because I wanted to test the timeout 16:42:59 * Rubidium times out 16:43:42 <Ammler> hmm, I might just stay with 32bit, should not hurt 16:44:10 *** kais58 [~kais58@cpc2-cwma8-2-0-cust293.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:44:28 <Ammler> oh, it does, memory is gone too :-) 16:44:42 <krinn> enable pae 16:44:56 <dihedral> reinstall :-P 16:45:05 <Ammler> what a stupid idea it was to install from that live image 16:45:13 <dihedral> :-D 16:45:33 <Ammler> seems like it just copied the content 16:47:23 *** krinn [~krinn@183.210.73.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 16:49:57 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:54:32 * andythenorth ponders procedurally generating stuff 16:54:39 <andythenorth> like the work I'm supposed to be doing 16:54:59 <andythenorth> for i in day.hours(): do_stuff 17:03:04 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 17:24:45 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:27:53 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.69.92] has joined #openttd 17:37:26 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.69.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:44:37 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:47:29 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-prvbrasgw1-fe05dc00-37.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:56:56 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 18:00:32 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 18:01:09 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-108-249.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 18:04:09 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 18:06:31 <Terkhen> hello 18:08:50 <andythenorth> hola Terkhen 18:19:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C4A7.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:26:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B9BF.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:36:48 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:39:27 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 18:41:52 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 18:48:49 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:48:52 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:52:21 *** Firartix [~artixds@108.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 18:52:35 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:56:49 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-178.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:56:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 19:01:31 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-178.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [] 19:02:36 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:15:21 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:25:31 *** Matulla [~chatzilla@95-89-241-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 19:26:00 <Matulla> hi all what happens in a city when i press generate new homes 19:26:21 <Matulla> can i press this more then once a year 19:26:24 <Alberth> in the SE ? 19:26:44 <Matulla> in desert 19:26:58 <Alberth> SE = the scenario editor 19:27:14 <Matulla> no in the running game 19:27:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Matulla: it speeds up city growth and ignores the water/food requirement for some time 19:27:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Matulla: it is usually not helpful to do this more than once 19:27:51 <Alberth> it's a good way to spend your money :p 19:27:52 <Matulla> ok thanks 19:28:18 <Matulla> i got now money enoph after 30 game years 19:28:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Matulla: you can usually see when the effect wears off when the pavements change 19:29:29 <Eddi|zuHause> they should have railways in widelands... :p 19:29:30 <Matulla> i never saw a pavements yet i need to zoom in 19:29:56 <Matulla> sometimes there are post appearing if i press advertise 19:31:33 <Matulla> is there more effect at transportation higher then 90% 19:31:45 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: trains moving back and forth :) 19:31:46 <Matulla> or the same as 80 19:32:29 <Alberth> Matulla: there is a wiki page about such stuff: http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics 19:32:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Matulla: station rating of 90% means you get 90% of the cargo produced nearby 19:32:49 <Matulla> and is this a bug when the message comes up production down at a 91% deliver rate 19:33:30 <Matulla> Eddi|zuHause: not the station rate the plant rate 19:33:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23961 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed) 19:33:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 19:33:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belarusian - 6 changes by KorneySan, Wowanxm 19:33:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 16 changes by arnau 19:33:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 6 changes by VoyagerOne 19:33:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 changes by Parody 19:33:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_ 19:35:52 <Matulla> is this a must to get a company town 19:36:24 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-178.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:37:01 <Eddi|zuHause> a what? 19:37:24 <Matulla> the place where the company is homed 19:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause> you can build that from your company window 19:37:53 <Eddi|zuHause> click the face icon in the menu bar 19:37:56 <Matulla> do i need to put this on i know that there is somthing but i never did that 19:38:09 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't need one 19:38:16 <Matulla> ok 19:38:21 <Eddi|zuHause> it just looks pretty, and produces some passengers 19:41:40 <Alberth> hmm, it is not even used in the town rating :) 19:41:57 <Matulla> bribe O.o 19:43:05 <Matulla> Thanks i will fil up all the tiles (almost) of my map 19:44:01 <Matulla> last question can a bigger airport only be build on the smaler one place 19:44:15 <Matulla> with same station name 19:44:37 <Alberth> size has nothing to do with it 19:45:40 <Alberth> it needs to be "close enough" to the old station, that's all 19:45:47 <Matulla> i tryed to get a bigger one on the othe end of the town by removing the smaler on e and it did not work maybe thrue to not enoph points to the town athoryty 19:46:34 <Matulla> it gave me a other station name and now i trevel by train to the airport 19:46:48 <Alberth> 'the other end of the town' sounds too far away 19:47:00 <Matulla> no 6 tiles 19:47:42 <Matulla> ok no factor just a guess 19:47:43 <Alberth> the old station name gets lost if you wait too long with building a new station 19:48:11 <Matulla> if you got planes in the air you cant wait to long 19:48:52 <Alberth> yeah, it's always a lot of stress to get the airport replaced 19:49:10 <Matulla> thanks 19:51:43 *** Matulla [~chatzilla@95-89-241-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #openttd [] 19:56:16 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 20:01:31 <Alberth> woow, 130M for widelands :) 20:02:12 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.124.217.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:03:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:03:23 <andythenorth> efening 20:03:28 <Alberth> hi andy 20:06:16 * andythenorth unusually agrees 100% with oberhumer 20:06:20 <andythenorth> but nvm 20:09:41 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@154.Red-83-52-212.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 20:14:07 <andythenorth> the answer is not on FB or BBC news 20:14:13 <andythenorth> is there more internets I should look on? 20:21:19 <Alberth> depends on the question 20:22:13 <andythenorth> 'entertain me?' 20:22:14 <andythenorth> :P 20:22:21 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc519.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:22:33 <andythenorth> quak quak quak 20:22:41 <frosch123> moin :) 20:22:43 <andythenorth> hmm 20:22:45 <Alberth> oh, download a random game, and try to figure out how to play it 20:22:49 <andythenorth> I should have made that procedural 20:22:52 <Alberth> hi frosch123 20:23:07 <andythenorth> { 'frosch123' : ['quak','quak','quak']} 20:23:40 *** Linnefer [4e379bf7@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:23:45 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 20:23:46 <Linnefer> heya 20:23:51 <Alberth> hi 20:24:00 <Zuu> Hello 20:24:23 <Linnefer> I have a question concerning instalation of openTTD without TTD 20:24:45 <Alberth> it works 20:24:45 <Linnefer> where do the open gfx etc belong? 20:24:55 <frosch123> check the readme 20:25:05 <frosch123> depends on your os and the version of ottd 20:25:22 <frosch123> the readme is linked on the download page 20:25:24 <Alberth> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/readme.txt#L163 20:25:32 <Linnefer> windows... 20:25:37 <Alberth> I had it book marked :) 20:25:40 <frosch123> ^^ that's for 1.2.0 only 20:25:56 <Alberth> hmm, good point 20:25:57 <frosch123> 1.1 has a different location 20:26:33 <Linnefer> I have 1.1.5if I read that right 20:27:01 <frosch123> then you need to put it into the "data" folder instead of the "baseset" folder (compared to 1.2) 20:27:09 <Alberth> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/tags/1.1.0/readme.txt#L162 yes, it's one line up :) 20:27:45 <Linnefer> just all the open gfx/music/sounds to that? 20:27:50 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host101-141-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:27:56 <Alberth> moin Wolf01 20:28:07 <Wolf01> hello 20:30:16 <Linnefer> ok, thanks! 20:31:46 *** Firartix [~artixds@108.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:57:38 *** Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> synthon.oftc.net quits: TinoDidriksen, Vadtec, @Rubidium, mikegrb, Noldo, break19, Maarten, confound 20:57:55 *** Netsplit over, joins: Noldo, mikegrb, TinoDidriksen 20:58:50 *** Netsplit over, joins: Maarten, break19, confound, Vadtec, @Rubidium 20:59:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v Alberth] by ChanServ 20:59:59 *** ChanServ changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.1.5, 1.2.0-beta4 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, ever | English only 20:59:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ 20:59:59 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 20:59:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v orudge] by ChanServ 20:59:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v Terkhen] by ChanServ 21:00:02 *** mode/#openttd [+v SmatZ] by ChanServ 21:03:37 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-178.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 21:05:33 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-197-66.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 21:07:25 <Zuu> The title game vote is hard this year. Many good contributions. 21:10:16 <planetmaker> agreed. I'm quite happy about that 21:10:27 <planetmaker> but I haven't made up my mind so far either 21:10:49 <Zuu> I have made my list of 3 now but have changed their order a few times. 21:11:17 <Zuu> You are brave that take votes by user names and not entry numbers. 21:14:27 *** Linnefer [4e379bf7@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:17:39 *** Sacro_ [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 21:20:44 <frosch123> did fred submit this year? 21:21:37 *** Sacro_ [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [] 21:29:27 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-104.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 21:31:09 <andythenorth> procedural with load sprites ;) http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=155873 21:32:03 <Alberth> dict(('andythenorth' : 'the approach works out very nicely, I must say'.split())) 21:32:36 *** Firartix [~artixds@108.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 21:32:39 <Alberth> hmm, s/:/,/ of course :( 21:32:48 <andythenorth> it's quite simple so far 21:33:06 <andythenorth> I could add more detail to lighting / shading with almost no work 21:33:07 <Alberth> yeah, quite surprisingly 21:33:21 <andythenorth> what's interesting is whether I need more floor plans for different truck types 21:33:25 <andythenorth> might be simplest 21:33:58 <Alberth> I was wondering whether you'd need a line drawing routine, but apparently not 21:36:36 <Rubidium> frosch123: doesn't seem like he did :( 21:37:51 <frosch123> i wonder whether someone resubmitted a save from the previous years .p 21:39:43 <Alberth> look at the game logs :) 21:40:32 <Eddi|zuHause> the images from the previous years are archived? 21:41:58 <Rubidium> yes, though not further back that 1.0 :( 21:43:50 <Rubidium> is SCO still not bankrupt? :( 21:43:54 <andythenorth> Alberth: it's a dumb sort of line routine 21:43:59 <andythenorth> :) 21:44:01 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:44:38 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:46:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: we didn't have title game contests before 1.0 21:50:25 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:55:25 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:24 <andythenorth> Alberth: if you're looking for a project, I still have to figure out how to render each set of angles, then write them out to the correct location in a new file ;) 21:56:52 <andythenorth> 1 input file = lots of rows of sprites for different load states, body styles 21:57:45 <Eddi|zuHause> there's not much point of a generator if you have to input the same number of images that you get out 22:01:12 <andythenorth> +1 22:01:23 <andythenorth> that would be more of a transformer :P 22:01:39 <andythenorth> it's akin to building ikea furniture from a flat pack :P 22:01:53 <Terkhen> why do you need an image generator? 22:02:12 <Alberth> that's a negative generator, if all goes well. It goes from many to 1 piece :) 22:02:29 <Alberth> Terkhen: people are lazy :) 22:02:56 <Terkhen> I reckon that the effort that the generator would take would be better spent in creating images 22:03:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: the idea was "truck trailers mostly look alike, just have different length" 22:03:15 <andythenorth> Terkhen: would you like to draw for BANDIT? :) 22:03:34 <Terkhen> nope, as I usually say, I couldn't draw to save my life 22:03:44 <andythenorth> you can draw these trailers 22:03:54 <andythenorth> they're just a regular pattern, with tweaks for lighting 22:04:07 <andythenorth> I considered paying someone on amazon turk to do it :P 22:05:22 <Alberth> what's this "render each set of angles, then write them out to the correct location in a new file" ? 22:06:07 <Alberth> don't you do that already? 22:06:59 <andythenorth> I render out one result at the moment 22:07:09 <andythenorth> i.e. one row 22:07:23 <andythenorth> the load sprites I posted are copy-paste after tweaking a value :P 22:07:35 <andythenorth> which might be as effective as any other route, time-wise :P 22:07:44 <Alberth> you're cheating! :p 22:08:02 <andythenorth> current code is here: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1116/ 22:08:17 <andythenorth> moving pixels around with PIL isn't hard by the looks of it, I just need to read the docs 22:08:34 <andythenorth> I think my code might benefit from review btw ;) 22:09:26 <Eddi|zuHause> why do you need multiple rows in a file? 22:09:35 <Eddi|zuHause> can just as well have multiple files 22:09:44 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: good point 22:09:53 <andythenorth> naming conventions ftw.... 22:10:13 <andythenorth> is there any compile time overhead to opening more pngs? 22:10:44 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: btw whilst you were on...holiday....I switched bandit compile to nmlc -> nfo -> grfcodec 22:11:04 <andythenorth> compiles in ~50% of the time compared to nmlc -> grf 22:11:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 22:11:27 <Eddi|zuHause> same thing i did 22:11:30 <andythenorth> I also wrote a (dev only) shell script to build, skippinyg all dep checks 22:11:35 <andythenorth> which is faster 22:11:52 <andythenorth> I'm not ditching the makefile though 22:12:32 <andythenorth> I also started curling the bandit config from my website, which is....slow 22:12:59 <Alberth> nml is slow in the graphics conversion, isn't it? 22:13:11 <andythenorth> I don't know how to profile, but that seems a fair bet 22:13:26 <Alberth> I was wondering whether you could cache that 22:13:27 <Eddi|zuHause> nml is slow - period 22:13:30 <Terkhen> andythenorth: "time make" worked for me 22:13:34 <Terkhen> but yeah, nml is slower 22:13:53 <Alberth> Terkhen: 'profile' is about finding out what part is slow :) 22:14:07 <Terkhen> oh, that 22:14:08 <Terkhen> :P 22:14:42 <Terkhen> maybe it is the "working with a language instead of with a bunch of bytes" part 22:14:56 <andythenorth> I could patch nml src to print out elapsed times 22:15:05 <andythenorth> if I understand the pipeline better.... 22:15:15 <andythenorth> but you don't want me doing that, I make wrong conclusions too often 22:15:17 <Terkhen> python must have some gprof equivalent 22:15:35 <Alberth> it has 22:16:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i had the command a few weeks ago... 22:16:28 <andythenorth> for BANDIT and FIRS the times are ok 22:16:32 <andythenorth> for CETS...not 22:17:08 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [] 22:18:56 <andythenorth> cProfile? 22:19:22 <andythenorth> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonSpeed/PerformanceTips 22:19:27 * andythenorth wonders what's slow 22:19:56 <Eddi|zuHause> "python -m cProfile -s time ../nml/nmlc -o cets.nfo cets.nml > profile2.txt" 22:20:14 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/profile_time.txt 22:20:15 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/profile_time.txt 22:20:24 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/profile_cumulative.txt 22:20:32 * andythenorth wonders if it's the kind of slowness that's amenable to cython or such 22:20:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the latter with "-s cumulative" 22:21:48 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 22:22:15 <Rhamphoryncus> ergh, reduce? 22:23:28 <Rhamphoryncus> reduce is almost always wrong 22:23:46 <andythenorth> reduce as in map:reduce? 22:24:05 <Rhamphoryncus> yes 22:24:21 <Rhamphoryncus> I should clarify: in python reduce is almost always wrong 22:24:26 <andythenorth> distributing tasks to worker threads? 22:24:44 <Rhamphoryncus> no, the reduce() builtin 22:24:45 <Eddi|zuHause> you're probably thinking something completely different 22:24:54 * andythenorth thinks so too 22:25:23 <Rhamphoryncus> Can't tell just from the profile output 22:26:54 <Eddi|zuHause> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/entry/nml/expression/binop.py <- code 22:27:02 <Rhamphoryncus> thanks 22:27:47 <Rhamphoryncus> So it's a method with the same name as a builtin. Nope, I no longer feel like I was wrong. It's poor style that's to blame for my mistake. 22:28:23 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't even know there's a "reduce" builtin 22:29:10 <Rhamphoryncus> It's taken out of the builtin namespace in python3 22:30:00 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 22:30:08 <Rhamphoryncus> The thing about reduce is that, except for certain cases, the runtime is quadratic 22:30:16 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, so reduce is actually fold... 22:32:42 <Alberth> andythenorth: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1117/ ? 22:33:00 <Rhamphoryncus> looks like reduce is just a recursive evaluator? 22:34:43 <Alberth> or simplifier, I think 22:35:49 *** KingJ [~KingJ-OFT@95.154.197.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:36:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: not all values of the expression are actually constants, so "evaluation" is probably the wrong word 22:36:22 <Rhamphoryncus> partial evaluation? 22:36:43 <Rhamphoryncus> Or are they variables that it retrieves the current value from? 22:37:18 <andythenorth> Alberth: I wondered if I could knock out some of the structures 22:37:29 <andythenorth> seems a bit over-complicated right now 22:37:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23962 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqvm.h: -Fix [FS#5068]: [Script] Infinite recursion within a script wasn't caught properly, so they could cause crashes of OpenTTD instead of the AI 22:37:34 *** KingJ [~KingJ-OFT@95.154.197.17] has joined #openttd 22:37:47 <Alberth> andythenorth: you seem to like disctionaries a lot 22:38:26 <Rhamphoryncus> sets are the new dictionaries ;) 22:38:28 <andythenorth> I prefer explicitly named values 22:38:38 <andythenorth> I don't like code that's some_list[27] 22:38:40 <andythenorth> or whatever :) 22:39:26 <andythenorth> l49-50 is much better 22:39:37 <andythenorth> as is l37-38 22:39:45 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A3E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:49 <andythenorth> thanks :) 22:41:12 <Alberth> except it's some_tuple[..] :) 22:42:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: expressions are trees, reduce transforms one expression-tree into a (potentially smaller) expression-tree 22:42:43 <Rhamphoryncus> If it's a tuple then take a look at namedtuple 22:42:44 <Alberth> I found your sequences quite interesting: bulk_load_1 = ([(0, 2), 4],) I'd write bulk_load_1 = [((0, 2), 4)] 22:43:14 <andythenorth> it's a naughty design choice - I just wanted the nested brackets to be easy to see :P 22:43:18 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: I was wondering about those too, but I couldn't pinpoint the name 22:43:30 <Rhamphoryncus> Eddi|zuHause: still sounds like evaluation 22:43:45 <Rhamphoryncus> reducing the tree.. by evaluating it. 22:43:53 <andythenorth> alberth in the sequences - I wondered if I needed to do (x,y) as a tuple at all 22:43:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: like it will reduce "1+3" to 4, but "1+a" will stay "1+a" if a is not a compile-time constant 22:44:24 <Rhamphoryncus> that in particular is constant folding 22:44:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 22:44:49 <Rhamphoryncus> and constant propagation 22:45:03 <andythenorth> hmm namedTuple - fields accessible by name 22:45:11 <Alberth> it's not strictly needed, and here you don't gain much, except keeping coordinates more separate from the colour. 22:45:12 <andythenorth> I nearly wrote a stubby object to do that 22:45:30 <andythenorth> seemed like over-engineering at this stage 22:45:48 <Rhamphoryncus> namedtuple is basically for trivial classes 22:46:13 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-107-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 22:46:17 <Alberth> I like the (x,y) pairs 22:46:40 <Rhamphoryncus> (x,y) is usually too trivial even for namedtuple. Usually. 22:47:18 * andythenorth will stick with named pairs 22:47:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: it also does some optimizations like preparing the expression for the shift/mask fields of nfo 22:47:28 <Rhamphoryncus> For graphics rendering it could easily grow a set of helper methods that put it beyond namedtuple 22:47:31 <andythenorth> Alberth: do you have a paste of the code? I can't get it to apply as a diff.... 22:48:54 <Alberth> I didn't, but I created one :) http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1118/ 22:50:18 <Alberth> if colour != 255 and colour != 0 and colour != 15: if colour not in (0, 15, 255): 22:50:22 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.istgeorgschrammschonimamt.de/ 22:50:50 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-108-249.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:51:18 <andythenorth> Alberth: :D http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2460/ho.png 22:51:30 <andythenorth> I can probably figure it out though 22:51:35 <andythenorth> might just be upside down 22:52:25 <andythenorth> Alberth: -dy ;) 22:52:35 <Rhamphoryncus> Eddi|zuHause: at least a translation would help 22:52:39 <andythenorth> fixed 22:52:43 <Alberth> ok :) 22:53:13 <andythenorth> now a ridiculously short amount of code considering what the results are :) 22:53:44 <Alberth> that's good; long python code is either very complex or it is wrong :) 22:53:54 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the beauty of (code) generators: they're usually very short 22:54:04 <Alberth> lol :) 22:54:47 <Alberth> at work I am writing one, and I counted 10700 lines of Java today, and it's not even working yet :) 22:55:21 <Alberth> oh, excuding the language definition classes, as they are generated by EMF :) 22:55:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: it's probably useless to simply translate this, if you don't get the context :) 22:56:07 <andythenorth> Alberth my biggest puzzle is how to write the configuration files 22:56:14 <andythenorth> or just put them inline 22:56:20 <andythenorth> this is just one trailer type 22:56:30 <andythenorth> I need about 5, plus recolor options 22:56:42 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: start with inline. Add a config file later only if you need it 22:57:12 <andythenorth> I've had it rigorously drummed into me to separate code and content :P 22:57:13 <Rhamphoryncus> But.. it'd help if your config is a single object passed around, rather than a series of globals inspected all over the place 22:57:35 <Rhamphoryncus> Separate them structurally but leave them in the same file 22:58:08 <Alberth> make a config class? 22:58:19 <Alberth> or a dict 22:58:20 <andythenorth> then instance it? 22:58:31 <andythenorth> Alberth: didn't you just murder my dicts :D 22:58:32 <andythenorth> ? 22:58:34 <Eddi|zuHause> make a dict 22:58:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i usually do 22:58:50 <Alberth> andythenorth: dicts of 2-3 entries :p 22:58:51 <Rhamphoryncus> instance it, yes. Do *not* use singletons for state. They're stupid, nonsensical things :P 22:59:17 <Alberth> used at one place :) 22:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: read them from the tracking table 22:59:56 <Alberth> well, I am off to bed; everybody have a safe flight home, and see you all tomorrow somewhen hopefully 23:00:01 <andythenorth> Alberth: thanks ;) 23:00:07 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that might be a nightmare :o 23:00:14 <andythenorth> I did consider drawing them into a png 23:00:19 <andythenorth> then having PIL just read them :P 23:00:25 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 23:01:42 * andythenorth favours passing a dict around maybe 23:01:54 <andythenorth> or...instance objects, and call the render method directly on the object 23:01:56 <andythenorth> might be better 23:02:10 <andythenorth> then I can stick objects in a list, render all, writing each one to a png 23:02:13 <andythenorth> tidy tidy tidy 23:02:55 <andythenorth> Elukka: you keeping up with this? :) 23:03:12 <andythenorth> you might seriously consider generated sprites for regular-shaped wagons / coaches 23:03:49 <Elukka> i'm following, whatever i can understand :P 23:03:56 <Elukka> i would seriously consider anything that might make it easier 23:04:06 <andythenorth> I made a test coach yesterday, it was ~10 mins work http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2456/a_test_trailer.png 23:04:10 <andythenorth> it's not great yet 23:04:21 <andythenorth> but it might get you primitives that are easy to then improve 23:04:51 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:05:27 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-197-66.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:07:40 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: so I'd want to init objects with stuff like this: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1119/ 23:07:44 <andythenorth> good way to do that? 23:07:55 <andythenorth> passing it all in from the constructor call seems ugly 23:08:06 <Rhamphoryncus> You want a similar syntax? 23:08:16 <andythenorth> needs to be easy to read/write is all ;) 23:08:21 <andythenorth> (the data does need to be different per instance) 23:08:38 <andythenorth> I don't like this syntax tbh: 23:08:42 <andythenorth> body_outer = ([(0, 0), body_colour], [(0, 1), cc_colour], [(0, 2), body_colour], [(0, 3), body_colour], [(0, 4), 13]) 23:08:44 <andythenorth> it's clunky 23:08:45 <Elukka> andy, cool 23:08:49 <Elukka> is it possible to make more angles with it? 23:08:57 <andythenorth> absolutely 23:09:39 <andythenorth> Elukka: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=995982#p995982 23:10:10 <Rhamphoryncus> Is it always (int, int), constant? 23:10:41 <Elukka> i mean as in the myriad extra angles of CETS :D 23:11:05 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: (int, int), constant or (int, int), int 23:11:14 <andythenorth> the constants can be local to the object instance 23:11:25 <andythenorth> Elukka: it can do any angles you draw a floor plan for 23:11:29 <andythenorth> there is *no* clever maths 23:11:37 <Elukka> sweet 23:11:48 <Rhamphoryncus> ah. Hrm. Well, I will say this is a hard thing to do well. 23:11:58 <andythenorth> elukka when it finds a pixel of colour n, it draws more pixels offset by (some values) 23:12:04 <andythenorth> and whatever colour(s) you want 23:12:19 <andythenorth> I did try randomising pixel colours from a list to add variety, but it sucked 23:12:24 <Rhamphoryncus> You could replace [(0, 0), body_colour] with P(0, 0, body_colour) 23:12:46 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: I could pass a dict to the object 23:13:01 <Rhamphoryncus> huh? 23:13:03 <andythenorth> but then I don't gain much from the object 23:13:04 <andythenorth> :P 23:13:22 <andythenorth> the hardest part of this is the human-> code interface :) 23:13:56 <Rhamphoryncus> P(0, 0, body_colour) reduces the parenthesis/etc, which makes it less noisy 23:14:55 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:14:56 <Rhamphoryncus> body_outer = [P(0, 0, body_colour), P(0, 1, cc_colour), P(0, 2, body_colour), P(0, 3, body_colour), P(0, 4, 13)] 23:15:36 <Rhamphoryncus> A list is more appropriate (that's homogenous data, not heterogeneous) and is a different character from P() 23:16:26 <andythenorth> the P thing is good for readability 23:16:37 <andythenorth> although it would have tripped me up if this was someone else's code ;) 23:17:12 <Rhamphoryncus> You could also replace body_colour and cc_colour with BODY and CC. Perhaps even make them singletons (the constant sort!) that are replaced with the configured value later 23:18:37 <andythenorth> so I make a singleton by...? 23:18:49 <andythenorth> singletons are unique in which namespace(s)? 23:19:03 * andythenorth asks dumb newbie questions 23:19:17 <Rhamphoryncus> A "global" in python is just an attribute of that module. Exact same as everything else in that module. 23:19:33 <andythenorth> k 23:19:40 <Rhamphoryncus> the easiest way here is "BODY = object()", then use "if x is BODY: x = ..." 23:22:11 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: any idea how to find docs on P for parentheses? 23:22:20 <andythenorth> all I can find with google is regex stuff 23:22:41 <Rhamphoryncus> umm, P isn't anything. It's just an arbitrary class name I picked :) 23:22:50 <Rhamphoryncus> you could used namedtuple to create it 23:23:03 <andythenorth> ah ha :) 23:23:08 <andythenorth> I thought it was a built in trick 23:23:26 <andythenorth> ok 23:33:12 <andythenorth> ho 23:33:16 <andythenorth> I could just write: 23:33:52 <andythenorth> body_outer = 0,0,BODY,0,1,BODY,0,2,14,0,3,14,0,4,ROOF 23:34:01 <andythenorth> not hugely readable :P 23:37:09 <dihedral> Zuu, are you interested in creating a NoGo lib for the json communication with the admin port? 23:37:48 <Zuu> My first though is why? 23:37:49 *** Nat_as [83bf2240@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 23:37:50 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: this might be dumb, but can I import a module into an object's namespace? 23:38:13 <Nat_as> Why are there no bidirectional path signals? 23:38:15 <Rhamphoryncus> No, but you can import in a method. Just use "import foo" as normal 23:38:19 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> there is *no* clever maths <-- that's probably what's wrong with it :p 23:38:31 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: feel free to contribute :) 23:38:32 <Zuu> And the second, what do you relly want to do? 23:38:51 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: procedural lighting, base on figuring out the angle....? 23:39:00 <Zuu> Sorry if I sound negative.. :-) 23:39:07 <Rhamphoryncus> importing a module in python is idempotent. The first time it gets stashed in sys.modules and every time after gets a reference to the same object 23:39:26 <Rhamphoryncus> (unless there's a pathing issue and it imports as two separate modules.. which does happen occasionally..) 23:39:34 <frosch123> night 23:39:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc519.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:56 <andythenorth> if I import a module that defines BODY, then later import another module that also defines BODY, will BODY be over-written? 23:40:09 <Rhamphoryncus> No, they're separate 23:40:12 <andythenorth> (that would be desirable in this case, usually not) 23:41:41 <Rhamphoryncus> If you use "from foo import BODY" then you'll have a local variable to the same object as foo.BODY. Modifying that object will affect both (they're the same object), but if you reassign such as "BODY = BODY + 1" it'll only replace the local variable 23:42:13 <Rhamphoryncus> I did suggest having BODY be a singleton. There'd be no reason to redefine it somewhere else. 23:42:33 <andythenorth> it will need redefining per recolour ;) 23:42:37 <andythenorth> but that's later.... 23:43:25 <Rhamphoryncus> Have P() do "if x is BODY: x = config.body_colour" 23:48:03 * andythenorth needs to write def P: :P 23:50:26 <michi_cc> Nat_as: Because they don't make sense. A signal can't be a safe waiting point for two trains at once. What you might want instead is the configuration shown on http://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_path_signal_layouts#Prioritised_single_track_layout 23:52:20 <Nat_as> oh 23:52:35 <Nat_as> I can place normal path signals facing inward in stations? 23:52:43 <Nat_as> damn that makes my layout much better 23:52:54 <Nat_as> I was using bidirectonal plain signals the whole time 23:53:04 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:53:04 <Nat_as> maybe now I wont get gridlock 23:53:52 <Rhamphoryncus> def P: # :P fed