Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:03 <Eddi|zuHause> actually both the first steam engine and the first railway were built in roman times, just nobody thought of combining both 00:00:14 <Rhamphoryncus> The station rating stuff can't handle such slow trains 00:01:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is actually that the station rating does a very poor job of balancing the production vs. the capacity 00:01:44 <Nat_as> station raiting is a bad mechanic anyways 00:02:20 <Rhamphoryncus> yeah 00:03:44 <Nat_as> if it could be fixed, a 1850-1930 would be a nice niche to play in thought. 00:04:04 <Nat_as> esp if new disasters could be implemented like indians and bandits. 00:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause> FIRS 0.7.x has an option to set station rating to 100% 00:06:18 <Nat_as> FIRS? 00:07:26 <Eddi|zuHause> "UTF-8 encryption" 00:07:29 <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p 00:16:49 <Eddi|zuHause> you know what amuses me? for over two years they have been talking pretty much every week about "the coalition will break about decision X"... and it never happens... 00:20:47 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 00:21:56 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 00:23:01 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [] 00:24:04 <Rhamphoryncus> "Who the heck uses implicit orders.. oh hey, there's one of my save games with implicit orders!" 00:25:20 <__ln__> meanwhile in greece: http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-78449-8.html http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-78449-2.html 00:25:34 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 00:26:50 <Eddi|zuHause> who cares about greece... 00:28:00 <__ln__> i won't once they return to drakhma. 00:28:04 <Rhamphoryncus> I do see one advantage of implicit orders: they're grey rather than black. 00:28:24 <Nat_as> you know 00:28:47 <Nat_as> it would be nice if trains could try to avoid visiting stations they are not specificity sent to if possible. 00:28:57 <Rhamphoryncus> Nat_as: non-stop 00:29:10 <Rhamphoryncus> Which can even be made the default for newly created orders 00:29:28 <Nat_as> oh it can be default? 00:29:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_as: they do that 00:29:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_as: if there's a (not too long) path around the station, they take it 00:30:05 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:30:14 <Nat_as> well I have had times where trains have gone the whole other way to get somewhere and I could never figure out why 00:30:23 <Nat_as> even thought I double checked everything for blockages 00:30:33 <Nat_as> it seemed to me taking the wrong route just because it could. 00:31:00 <Eddi|zuHause> that has absolutely nothing to do with this, though 00:31:04 <Nat_as> yeah 00:31:13 <Nat_as> I digress. 00:31:33 <DabuYu> Nat_as: a single wrongly placed signal can do that 00:31:40 <Rhamphoryncus> A savegame of that can be useful 00:31:41 <Nat_as> implicit orders are almost always a sign of something wrong for me thought 00:31:49 <Rhamphoryncus> Or a gap in the track 00:32:03 <Nat_as> yeah I checked for that, and could not find anything 00:32:06 <DabuYu> Rhamphoryncus: a gap is easier to spot, a signal not that easy 00:32:10 <Nat_as> I don't think I have that game either. 00:32:12 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, ditto. This game is the first one since I started playing again 00:32:16 <Nat_as> yeah I might have missed it. 00:32:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_as: so you'd likely never notice if they weren't there 00:32:25 <Rhamphoryncus> DabuYu: half tile, hidden by trees at the start of a bridge.. 00:32:42 <Nat_as> but if there is implicit orders on my lists that means there is something wrong 00:32:57 <Nat_as> it would be cool if there was a way to check for implicit orders. 00:32:58 <Eddi|zuHause> a gap in the tracks is very difficult to spot 00:33:10 <Eddi|zuHause> missing trackbit on maglev 00:33:13 <Eddi|zuHause> or missing catenary 00:33:19 <Nat_as> it's hard to spot in junctions 00:33:35 <Nat_as> actual lines it's usualy more oubvious. 00:34:11 <DabuYu> actually, if train can figure out routes, isn't it possible to write a check-tool for what route a new train will take from one station to the other? 00:34:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and there's much more subtle pathfinder oddities that could make a train take a wrong path 00:35:29 <Nat_as> yeah that's hard to prove though 00:35:47 <Nat_as> tell people on irc your train is going the wrong way and they will tell you to check your signals aggain 00:35:59 <Nat_as> which is fustrating because at that point you probably already have twice. 00:36:09 <Nat_as> nobody ever assumes you already googled or read the manual. 00:36:54 <Nat_as> the worst thing ever is when you google a bug, and all you can find is a form post of somebody asking about the same bug, only to be answered by some jerk telling him to google it. 00:37:06 * Nat_as goes on another tangent. 00:37:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the most obscure one i've seen is trains running in circles when all platforms are full, but happily waiting if one platform is free 00:37:11 <DabuYu> Nat_as: you'll be surprised how many come here immediately with those questions without any checking 00:37:26 <Nat_as> yeah I don't say it does not happen. 00:37:37 <Nat_as> but people need to be more understanding. 00:38:02 <DabuYu> true - i know your frustation, i had that too - but then i keep on telling 'already checked that' etc etc 00:38:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and another one where trains are not taking the straight track, but only if a train is on a specific platform in a station across half the map 00:38:09 <DabuYu> and the bug report too, that's quite annoying 00:38:24 <Nat_as> the bug report is a bigger problem imo 00:38:49 <Nat_as> if I ran a form, telling people to google it would be a bannable offense. 00:39:09 <Rhamphoryncus> Nat_as: Advanced/Vehicles/"New orders are 'non-stop' by default" 00:39:11 <Nat_as> anyways, I notice trucks seem to prefer making turns when possible 00:39:16 <Nat_as> even if it's not the best idea 00:39:27 <Nat_as> some crazy city layouts can send them in infinite loops. 00:39:45 <Nat_as> because they seem to think that because the desitnation is to the right of them, the next right turn must be the best option. 00:39:51 <Nat_as> only to be confronted with another turn 00:39:54 <Rhamphoryncus> Never seen that 00:39:56 <Nat_as> and they end up in circles 00:39:57 <Nat_as> I have. 00:40:06 <Rhamphoryncus> Savegame next time you see it 00:40:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_as: really, check your road connections :p 00:40:22 <Nat_as> not sure if that's the quirk that causes it, but I have seen cities send trucks into loops 00:40:40 <Nat_as> the truck ended up in that side of the city in the first place so there must be a way out 00:40:45 <Nat_as> and I can see a way out 00:40:52 <Nat_as> but the truck would rather go in circles 00:41:12 <Rhamphoryncus> Again, savegame. There's no way to diagnose such a thing without the ability to reproduce. 00:42:10 <DabuYu> Nat_as: i've seen that in the original tt (maybe ttd) 00:42:54 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, original did that. but we now have a full pathfinder 00:43:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so if there's a way, it's guaranteed to be found 00:43:15 <DabuYu> yes, i have not seen it in openttd yet 00:44:22 <Rhamphoryncus> The first thing I'd check if I got such a savegame is what the pathfinder settings are 00:44:25 <Eddi|zuHause> (problem is, that may be a near-endless loop if there's no path, so some thresholds are in place to cancel the search) 00:45:14 <Nat_as> another problem is truck turning around 00:45:21 <Nat_as> but that is easy enough to fix 00:45:35 <Nat_as> I like trams because it FORCES you to take care of that. 00:46:08 <Nat_as> also double track 00:46:19 <Nat_as> Hmm, if trams exist, why can't double track trains exist? 00:46:45 <Eddi|zuHause> because of the map array, the construction method, and the movement pattern 00:47:09 <Nat_as> tams are trucks and drive on the side of a tile, trains can only move in the centre of a tile? 00:47:16 <Rhamphoryncus> IOW, it's baked in to the history of the game 00:47:44 <Eddi|zuHause> "movement pattern" means "ability to make turns other than on tile borders" 00:48:38 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-155-21.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:50:10 <Eddi|zuHause> "construction method" includes things like "how do you make a connection from single to double", "how do you make branches", "how do you make crossovers", "how do you make curves in a way that you don't end up with 4 rails on diagonal tracks" 00:50:28 <Nat_as> yeah 00:50:45 <Nat_as> I remember in simutrans i participated in a few flamewars over the topic of double track 00:50:49 <Eddi|zuHause> and "map array" is about storing the track bits, the track reservations, signals, etc. with using as few bits as possible 00:51:04 <Nat_as> mostly because I was playing RT3 before that and it had double track 00:51:12 <Nat_as> but that was a much diffrent game 00:51:21 <Eddi|zuHause> if you can solve all these things, then you have a good chance of implementing this 00:51:22 <Nat_as> focusing more on economics than track layout. 00:51:50 <Nat_as> for instance trains would just stop and turn transparent as other trains would pass through them. 00:51:54 <Nat_as> shunting 00:52:08 <Nat_as> it allowed you to share tracks with other companies though, which is cool. 00:52:14 <Nat_as> probably not at all practical in OTTD. 00:52:29 <Eddi|zuHause> the next pitfall of doubletracks then is (newgrf) stations 00:53:26 <Nat_as> the indusrial station newgrif has a "classification yard" tileset with a cosmetic 3rd track. 00:54:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that is not how it's going to work. because that track is actually between two tiles 00:54:20 <Nat_as> yeah 00:55:01 <Nat_as> I wish the industrial stations newgrif was updaited 00:55:06 <Nat_as> it does not have stations for all cargo types 00:55:14 <Nat_as> but it is still the best station newgrif 00:55:22 <Nat_as> I wish the pasinger station ones were as nice. 00:55:55 <Nat_as> needs to be more automatic stations in general. 01:02:02 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:04:56 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08e5c0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 01:05:39 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:13:27 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:53:24 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@82.95.127.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:54:20 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 01:57:18 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: dada_] 02:01:01 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@cm-188.126.201.147.customer.telag.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02:30 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (117-25*3)/3 02:02:30 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 14 02:03:05 *** Nat_as [83bf2240@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 02:19:22 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-043-218.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:19:52 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-021-234.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 02:24:25 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.118] has joined #openttd 02:44:59 *** Avenger [~rafinha21@186.213.141.25] has joined #openttd 02:46:03 <Avenger> olaaa 02:48:05 *** kkb110__ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:48:06 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:28:39 *** Firartix [~artixds@38.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:33:09 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:33:09 *** kkb110__ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:40:57 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-109-88.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:48:25 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 03:57:04 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.118] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 04:12:38 *** Avenger [~rafinha21@186.213.141.25] has quit [] 04:19:49 *** Avenger [~rafinha21@186.213.141.25] has joined #openttd 04:20:24 *** Avenger [~rafinha21@186.213.141.25] has quit [] 04:42:34 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:7069:fa9f:aa93:8366] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:56:36 *** tty234 [telex@anapnea.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:07:38 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.124.217.99] has joined #openttd 05:20:26 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-021-234.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:36:53 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 05:38:53 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:39:14 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 05:43:16 *** Elukka [~Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:43:28 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B72C58.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 06:43:49 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B746BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:48:07 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:54:57 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:59:31 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:14:31 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 07:29:29 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:37:11 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has joined #openttd 07:37:39 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:18 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 07:40:07 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:42:04 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 08:01:27 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:14:10 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 08:14:10 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:38:44 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 08:53:38 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:09:39 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 09:15:38 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.212] has joined #openttd 09:17:15 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.212] has quit [] 09:53:19 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120216100510]] 09:58:32 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:22 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:12:11 *** Firartix [~artixds@38.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 10:14:48 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:15:35 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 10:29:23 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:30:18 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 10:36:48 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-021-234.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 10:43:59 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-109-88.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 10:48:46 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@cm-188.126.201.147.customer.telag.net] has joined #openttd 10:52:54 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08ea8e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:10:05 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-106-8-238.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:10:11 <Pikka> good day sirs 11:12:23 <Eddi|zuHause> mondays are never good... 11:12:52 <Pikka> what, never? 11:13:08 <Pikka> gentlemen, is 1.2 possibly coming out before april 1st? :o 11:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it's carneval monday, that's like as bad as it can get... 11:14:31 <Eddi|zuHause> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenmontag 11:14:35 <Ammler> Pikka: you have it already since christmas 11:16:20 <Pikka> the betas and release candidates, yes 11:16:49 <Pikka> I only want to know because I'm aiming to have stuff done by the release :) 11:18:10 <Eddi|zuHause> by my experience, releases are almost never early... :p 11:18:34 <Pikka> true 11:18:43 <Pikka> but april 1st is only an unofficial date 11:18:44 <peter1138> past history suggests it might be 1st of april :p 11:18:49 <Pikka> yes 11:18:53 * peter1138 doesn't know, however 11:19:01 <Pikka> an RC so early has me spooked though :) 11:19:41 <Eddi|zuHause> why? if you think 3 RCs and an RC every 2 weeks... 11:20:02 <Pikka> I guess so Eddi 11:22:48 <peter1138> any plans for 32bpp/ez? ;p 11:22:55 <peter1138> (guessing not) 11:23:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i have plans for ez, but my artists doesn't seem to agree :p 11:28:05 <peter1138> ah cool, i haven't read geektoo's discovery yet :p 11:28:22 <planetmaker> Pikka: it's the usual time 11:28:36 <planetmaker> and hello :-) 11:30:03 <peter1138> nice for rubidium to come up with a script to do the magic work :) 11:30:13 <peter1138> s/for/of/ 11:30:30 <peter1138> yeah "it's all wasted" well no, the sprites are still there 11:33:08 <planetmaker> :-) 11:33:28 <planetmaker> finally. Also RC1 announced 11:34:53 <peter1138> the performance penalty for trying to load pngs was quite severe. it would be even worse with lots of pngs available... 11:34:59 <peter1138> pom te pom 11:36:33 <planetmaker> I tried to mention it. Maybe you can elaborate on that more, petern 11:47:18 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: your post fails to link to the title game competition 11:47:42 <planetmaker> hm :-) I should change that. Thanks 12:08:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:18:11 <Pikka> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5052 hmm 12:19:06 <Pikka> that said, there are a few var 98 checks I'd have to get rid of in ukrs2 if that variable could change in unpredictable ways... 12:21:34 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-106-8-238.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:56 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-106-8-238.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:23:19 <andythenorth> ooh 12:23:19 <andythenorth> it's pikka 12:23:19 <andythenorth> :o 12:23:28 <Pikka> was, has been, will be again! 12:23:37 <Pikka> bonjour herr le north 12:24:44 <planetmaker> apropos: how's you new life? :-) 12:25:05 <Pikka> whose new life? 12:25:11 <planetmaker> yours ;-) 12:25:15 <andythenorth> are you still on the buses? 12:25:23 <Pikka> quit last week andy 12:26:27 <Pikka> I'm on holiday all next month trying to get grfs finished for 1.2.0, then I'll be getting into writing and graphicing and generally trying to make a living off my wits. :) 12:28:44 <Pikka> working on UKRS at the moment, getting quite a bit done but unfortunately I'm thinking of more stuff to add at about the same rate as I'm adding stuff. :D 12:28:54 <Pikka> I like your procedurally generated truck trailers andy 12:32:18 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest3241 12:32:18 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@31.99.125.72] has joined #openttd 12:32:18 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 12:32:33 <Pikka> wb andy 12:32:50 <andythenorth> :) 12:32:57 * andythenorth procedurally generates irc 12:33:10 <Pikka> how painful 12:33:18 *** Guest3241 [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:33:40 <andythenorth> there's medication available I'm told 12:34:03 <Pikka> if you know who to ask 12:34:14 <Pikka> speaking of medication 12:34:30 <Pikka> tea then laphroaig :) 12:35:08 <andythenorth> Pikka: where in the world are you? 12:36:10 <Pikka> where in the world? brisbane, as usual 12:38:02 <Pikka> por why? 12:38:18 <andythenorth> you seem to gad about occasionally ;) 12:38:22 <andythenorth> adventurously 12:39:11 <Pikka> well 12:39:45 <Pikka> occasionally 12:40:16 <Pikka> hopefully more so in the future, if I can make a bit of money and am no longer tied down by working for the man 12:40:51 <Pikka> the man and his buses 12:41:09 * andythenorth is in the position of being the man 12:41:12 <andythenorth> so can't stop working for him 12:42:08 * andythenorth wishes the man would give him more time to code pixels 12:42:08 <andythenorth> :P 12:42:32 <Pikka> darn 12:43:42 <Pikka> so these bandits 12:44:03 <Pikka> they're just trucks, right? rigids too? going back how far? 12:44:14 * Pikka would like to resurrect HOVS some time 12:44:27 <Pikka> you do the trucks, I'll do the buses and trams :} 12:44:47 <Elukka> <Eddi|zuHause> i have plans for ez, but my artists doesn't seem to agree :p 12:44:53 <Elukka> i think your artists first want to get some playable amount of vehicles drawn, and one of them is so terminally lazy he'd get nothing done if it took him even more time to draw a thing :p 12:45:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so... i played transport giant for 5 minutes, and i'm already totally annoyed 12:48:30 <andythenorth> Pikka: trucks from 1905, maybe earlier if I add steam trucks 12:49:22 <Pikka> groovy 12:49:50 <andythenorth> it's being drawn to Dan's NARVS scale (small) 12:49:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: for starters a closed wagon in white (for refrigerated) would be nice :) 12:50:15 <Pikka> :D 12:50:22 * Pikka will have to draw some buses 12:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause> what was wrong with HOVS actually? the last "secret" version i played seemed nice (although i probably haven't seen the later years) 12:51:10 <Pikka> after I draw all these darn trains D: 12:51:31 <Pikka> nothing was wrong with it Eddi 12:52:03 <Pikka> it's just old and mostly based on the original graphics. It's very much in the spirit of UKRS1 12:52:33 <Pikka> oh, and the secret version didn't have any later years, that's what was wrong with it. :) 12:52:41 <Pikka> any trucks for later years, anyway 12:53:09 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1ABDC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:54:37 <andythenorth> I recently played with HOVS to inspire BANDIT design 12:54:38 <andythenorth> works ok 12:54:55 <andythenorth> Pikka: our man in canada is keen to do buses too 12:55:00 <andythenorth> he has an acronym :P 12:55:01 <andythenorth> COPS 12:55:18 <Pikka> :) 12:55:28 <Pikka> well, HOVS can be strictly UK-style 12:55:32 <andythenorth> BANDIT is multi-region btw 12:55:52 <Pikka> :D 12:56:08 <andythenorth> BANDIT will have parameters for north america, europe, australia/NZ, maybe others 12:56:30 <andythenorth> I'm hoping Dan / somebody will draw some truck cabs 12:56:39 <andythenorth> trailers will generate ok 12:57:13 <andythenorth> the BANDIT code will be easy to extend to buses 12:57:49 <Pikka> the generation code or the nfo/nml code? 12:57:59 <andythenorth> the nml templating 12:58:19 <andythenorth> articulated buses? tick 12:58:26 <Pikka> neat :) 12:58:36 <andythenorth> buses that refit to have a cargo trailer? tick (if wanted) 12:58:50 <Pikka> are you using my train graphics templates btw, or something else? 12:59:07 <andythenorth> someone made templates for the nml wiki 12:59:17 <Pikka> okay, I'll look into them for HOVS 12:59:24 <Pikka> we should coordinate on running/purchase costs? 12:59:27 * andythenorth has drunk the koolaid on nml now 12:59:35 <andythenorth> yarp 12:59:43 * Pikka hasn't and isn't likely to, but if you're coding that's fine with me 13:00:00 <andythenorth> I calculate costs, with the ability to manually over-ride for specific vehicles 13:01:03 <andythenorth> Pikka: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1134/ 13:01:14 <andythenorth> it's python, but don't worry about that :) 13:03:07 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest3244 13:03:07 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:03:07 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 13:03:21 <Pikka> he did it again 13:03:40 <andythenorth> switched wifi 13:03:40 <andythenorth> :P 13:04:02 <Pikka> calculating purely from HP? :P 13:04:13 <andythenorth> currently 13:04:20 <Pikka> I see :) 13:04:23 <andythenorth> could do more 13:04:27 <andythenorth> I was uninspired 13:04:36 <andythenorth> that sets the base run cost value 13:04:48 <andythenorth> that's the code in the build script 13:04:55 <andythenorth> I could do variable running costs too - with nml varaction 2 stuff 13:05:15 <andythenorth> 'base' is an unfortunate choice of word above :P 13:05:17 <Pikka> http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Vehicle_Cost_Calculation has some of my stuff in there 13:05:51 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:06:50 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 13:07:00 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: i started on that, might as well get it finished 13:07:02 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/wagons.png 13:07:04 <Pikka> Brianetta we hardly knew you 13:07:09 <Elukka> btw 13:07:23 <Elukka> if we went 32bpp, we'd have a vastly easier time adding some more contrast to make them pop out a bit 13:07:51 <andythenorth> Elukka: you could generate that one :P 13:08:04 <andythenorth> might be more work than drawing it though.... 13:08:44 <andythenorth> depends if you need a lot of fridge vans at different lengths, colours etc 13:08:58 <Pikka> andy: generate me a Gresley D49! 13:09:12 <andythenorth> yeah but no but 13:09:16 <Elukka> i do need to make a wagon that's pretty much this but a bit shorter 13:09:21 <Pikka> :D 13:09:46 <Elukka> i have no idea how to generate stuff though 13:09:53 <andythenorth> pikka if you only have <256 unique sequences of pixels in your image, they can be generated :P 13:09:58 <andythenorth> but it might be insane 13:10:10 *** Guest3244 [~Andy@31.99.125.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:11:20 <Elukka> for the most part i can deal with stuff like refrigerated variants just by replacing colors 13:11:55 <Elukka> the least painless method in photoshop that i've discovered is magic wand, contiguous unticked, click color to replace, brush over with new color 13:13:17 <Elukka> um. the most painless, least painless would be bad :P 13:13:22 <andythenorth> Elukka: how much recolouring do you have to do? 13:13:35 <andythenorth> recolouring is actually a more trivial thing to do than generating 13:13:40 <andythenorth> also...comping load sprites 13:13:54 <Elukka> a hell of a lot 13:14:00 <Elukka> most passenger wagons in particular have a bunch of variants 13:14:17 <andythenorth> with my method, you set up colour tables and tell the graphics generator to replace colours 13:14:53 <andythenorth> do you have stuff like yellow strip / no yellow stripe? 13:14:58 <andythenorth> (for first class) 13:15:55 <Elukka> yeah, later on 13:15:57 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/cets-1.png 13:16:03 <Elukka> currently more like that, see the upper two trains 13:18:14 <andythenorth> Elukka: that would be easy to do with the generator, *assuming* you don't use the brown anywhere else in the sprite 13:18:27 <andythenorth> although you can work around that by drawing in false colour, then generating all the liveries 13:18:42 <Elukka> i probably don't anyway 13:19:01 <andythenorth> you need to persuade Eddi|zuHause that he finds the pixel generator interesting :P 13:19:22 <Elukka> well he doesn't draw them :P 13:19:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the recolouring is probably the least of the problems... 13:20:22 <andythenorth> Elukka: those three wheel coaches could be procedurally generated 13:20:26 <andythenorth> they're a simple structure 13:20:55 <andythenorth> they're a good case 13:20:58 <andythenorth> the wagons and the lowest line of coaches would be bad cases 13:23:36 <Elukka> well it might be useful if you could just generate a starting point 13:23:40 <Elukka> and draw on top of that 13:23:49 <andythenorth> Elukka: you saw the carriage I generated? 13:23:58 <Elukka> i think so 13:24:05 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2456/a_test_trailer.png 13:24:13 <andythenorth> literally a few minutes effort 13:24:45 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in my mind it would work like this, you give an array for each length unit, i.e. a 5lu closed wagon would look like [(left_buffer,wall,flat_roof),(small_wheel,wall,flat_roof),(wall,flat_roof),(small_wheel,wall,flat_roof),(right_buffer,wall,braker_cab)] 13:25:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and then it creates the graphics from these components 13:25:15 <Elukka> that could be amazing 13:25:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it won't be particularly pretty, but it might be enough to be playable 13:26:02 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that's roughly how it works 13:26:07 <andythenorth> the code is in the BANDIT repo 13:26:24 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/show/misc/pixel_generator 13:26:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i tried to look at it, but it didn't make any sense to me 13:26:58 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it's a little bit more atomic than your description 13:27:09 <andythenorth> although it could work your way 13:27:41 <andythenorth> abstracted, the principle is: for pixel x, y, colour: draw a sequence of pixels relative to x, y 13:27:55 <andythenorth> colour of new pixels is set per pixel 13:28:31 <andythenorth> this mistake I made is a nice illustration....http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2484/interesting.png 13:28:39 <Elukka> eddi, what's your stance on the 32bpp thing 13:28:57 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:29:04 <andythenorth> ^^ the last row shows how load sprites are just a shift + recolour of the pattern on the floor 13:29:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: my stance is "make the sprites, we figure it out later 13:29:48 <Elukka> hmm, okay 13:29:56 <Elukka> every sprite would be a lot easier to do if i didn't have to worry about palettes 13:30:15 <Eddi|zuHause> do that, then. 13:30:15 <andythenorth> what's the palette issue? 13:30:33 <Elukka> it's limited! 13:30:43 <Elukka> i 13:30:49 <Elukka> *i'll start working with 32bpp, then 13:31:03 <Elukka> turning them into 8bpp would probably require a manual reworking, though 13:31:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: the more 32bpp sprites we have, the more pressure is for anyone actually implementing (new) 32bpp support in nml :p 13:31:47 <Elukka> heh 13:32:10 <Elukka> i'm also gonna recolor the prussian coaches to something more accurate, plus give them some more lighting 13:33:57 <andythenorth> meh 13:34:02 <andythenorth> not using the 8bpp palette is cheating :P 13:34:25 <Elukka> any file format rules for 32bpp sprites? or is it just a normal png 13:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's just another png 13:37:11 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-106-8-238.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:06 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:54:52 <Eddi|zuHause> there doesn't seem to be an nml var to access var 0xFA (random bits) 13:57:02 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9cb5:2fd8:e7dd:5278] has joined #openttd 13:57:04 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:57:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "7C W [TTDPatch] Index of the 'engine' (i.e. the first vehicle) of the consist" <-- this doesn't seem to be implemented in openttd. i understand that this should be the front of an articulated consist 13:57:24 <Eddi|zuHause> could be useful for var 61 13:58:30 <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe i'm interpreting this wrong 14:00:15 <Elukka> okay, 32bpp is worth it just for the ability to adjust colors however you like... 14:00:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: i have no idea how to do recolouring then, though 14:00:47 <Elukka> hmm 14:01:34 <Elukka> do we need recoloring for stuff other than hypothetical future company colors and cargos? 14:01:43 <Elukka> cargo would be easy enough to keep to the 8bpp palette if needed 14:02:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the current plan is only cargo, but in principle we can recolour on any condition and any part of the vehicle 14:02:57 <Eddi|zuHause> like make the door blue on wednesdays 14:04:20 <Elukka> :D 14:04:48 <Eddi|zuHause> one useful case for recolouring would be head/tail lights 14:07:26 *** RhamphMobile [~yaaic@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 14:08:55 <RhamphMobile> I have no wired internet... yet somehow my phone on our wifi still works. 14:12:59 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.212] has joined #openttd 14:15:29 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.212] has left #openttd [] 14:16:08 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 14:20:31 *** RhamphMobile [~yaaic@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> why is var 49 called "build_year" and not "build_date"? 14:24:12 <Rhamphoryncus> because peanuts. 14:26:28 <andythenorth> hysterical raisins of course 14:28:46 <Ammler> would it already be possible to make 32bpp grfs with nml, if you use grfcodec to encode the "nml-nfo"? 14:33:52 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Recolouring works by a separate paletted mask sprite. For each pixel that is recoloured, the blitter calcluates the brightness from the RGB value and modulates the looked-up palette colour with it. 14:35:01 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: so you can only recolour bright pixels with other bright pixels and dark pixels with other dark pixels, or what? 14:35:39 <michi_cc> The formula is pixel = max(r,g,b,) / 64.0f * palette_to_rgb(index) 14:36:28 <michi_cc> So a max brightness of 128 would double the brightness of the palette colour and 32 would half it. 14:37:11 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure i understand the impact of this... 14:37:46 <michi_cc> In reality it is a bit more complicated to avoid e.g. overflow of course. 14:38:58 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:41:23 <andythenorth> that all sounds like 'ow' 14:41:24 <andythenorth> :) 14:41:39 * andythenorth will stick to recolouring at compile time :) 14:48:07 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Somehwat like http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/recolour.png 14:51:01 <michi_cc> Hmm, probably a bit more read like the updated image. 14:51:05 <michi_cc> s/read/red/ 14:58:37 <appe> good afternoon, guurmans. 15:02:06 *** Elu [~Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:03:10 <Belugas> hello 15:03:15 <dihedral> hello sir 15:03:33 <Belugas> good day to you, dihedral 15:05:34 *** Elukka [~Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:11:46 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:12:50 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:26:44 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-145-119.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:26:47 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 15:27:50 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-106-8-238.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 15:28:08 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@121.Red-83-43-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 15:28:51 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@121.Red-83-43-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:29:47 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@121.Red-83-43-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 15:30:20 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:32:28 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-62-145.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:32:49 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@121.Red-83-43-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 15:33:19 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@121.Red-83-43-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 16:16:01 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:26:23 *** Jogio [~5080e282@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 16:27:40 <Jogio> hello 16:28:42 <Rubidium> hi 16:28:54 <Jogio> is somebody here who has time to explain how I can use diff? 16:30:08 <Rubidium> I guess that depends on the actual question 16:30:42 <Jogio> Àhm I have no clue what I have to do to use it 16:31:48 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@121.Red-83-43-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:55 <__ln__> but you are convinced you need to use it? 16:32:07 <Jogio> yes it would be easier 16:32:13 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:32:18 <Jogio> I have about 10 files modified 16:32:51 <Jogio> but when I wrote here I realised I made a thinking error 16:32:52 <dihedral> if you use a version controll system (svn, git, hg, etc.) you can use svn diff, hg diff, git diff ... 16:33:07 <Jogio> i have diff here 16:33:20 <dihedral> diff itself compares 2 files 16:33:30 <dihedral> so you need the original files to compare against 16:33:40 <dihedral> what changes have you made? 16:34:10 <Jogio> my thinking error was i can use diff direct old modified openttd version with new unmodified version 16:34:40 <Rubidium> you can, but it's likely not going to give the wanted result 16:34:48 <Jogio> but I have to make a patch with modified and unmodified openttd version first, right? 16:34:58 <Rubidium> yes 16:35:17 <Jogio> yeah, maybe I can help myself 16:35:28 <Jogio> I will write if I have a question 16:35:41 <dihedral> checkout the source using svn or hg 16:35:48 <dihedral> that will make it easier for you 16:36:20 <Jogio> I have already zip file with source code 16:36:27 <dihedral> ... 16:37:01 <dihedral> if you use a version controll system, you can always see your changes, see what files you have changed, get the diff, update (by getting only the changes) and revert your changes 16:40:34 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:45:19 <supermop> good morning 16:49:22 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@121.Red-83-43-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 16:53:04 <Jogio> good morning at this time sounds strange in europe 16:53:09 <Jogio> "_" 16:54:08 <dihedral> who says he/she is in europe? ;-) 16:59:25 <MNIM> Well, the majority of this channel's userbase is european, isn't it? 16:59:37 <MNIM> so to the question 'who' I would say 'statistics' 17:01:04 <supermop> maybe i am wishing you an ex post facto good morning 17:03:44 *** Elu is now known as Elukka 17:06:58 <Jogio> I wanted to make a joke here, but I don't know english word for "Beamter" :-) 17:17:31 <MNIM> Ehhh. 17:17:56 <MNIM> I would say 'bureacrat' though that isn't exactly the literal translation. 17:47:09 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@121.Red-83-43-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:48:40 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-106-8-238.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:56:17 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 18:15:00 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [] 18:18:09 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7a24.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:19:07 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:19:28 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: so are changes like mine going to be ignored until after release? 18:19:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.186.73] has joined #openttd 18:19:57 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 18:21:17 <Rhamphoryncus> I mean in terms of review. I don't expect it to be applied right now. 18:21:52 <Rubidium> it's the thing that you just today put on flyspray, isn't it? 18:22:30 <Rhamphoryncus> last night, but yeah. 18:23:44 <Rubidium> then I'd not quite call it ignored yet 18:24:08 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 18:24:29 <Rubidium> even then, 1.2 already branched off, so it won't make 1.2 in any case 18:24:50 <Rhamphoryncus> No, of course not. I'm more thinking about scale here. A week would be good normally. With a release imminent I'd expect a couple more weeks on that, or more. 18:25:18 <Rubidium> if only there was enough time 18:25:50 <Rhamphoryncus> As long as there's good communication I can wait a long time ;) 18:26:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C4DB.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:26:56 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 18:29:57 *** peteris is now known as pecisk_latvia 18:33:23 <Rubidium> does this implicitly sync vehicles in an order list? 18:34:43 <Rubidium> or are you, if a vehicle is late enough move the departure back by <length of timetable>/<number of vehicles>? 18:35:05 <Rubidium> as in that case you'll eventually end up with al vehicles going at the same time 18:35:17 <Rubidium> or at least some sort of clumping together 18:36:55 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.73.249] has joined #openttd 18:41:37 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-110-125.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:41:37 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-021-234.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 18:41:39 <appe> duders 18:41:57 <appe> im using C# in ASP.NET, and im trying to find and replace parts of a string. 18:42:28 <appe> the string might contain "number" (as in "300"), or "numberkr" (as in "300kr"). 18:42:38 <appe> i wish to add "kr" to every string that doesnt already have it. 18:42:42 <appe> any tip? :) 18:49:00 <valhallasw> appe: String.EndsWith, maybe .ParseInt? 19:08:44 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:12:58 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: vehicle order doesn't matter. Each order independently tracks departures and hands them out in a first-come-first-serve basis 19:13:38 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:14:00 <Rhamphoryncus> The only interaction is they derive their timing from the orderlist 19:19:32 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-237-225.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:21:47 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:23:33 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 19:26:45 <Jogio> the guy with the diff question is back and I have to say I succeded (after some hunk errors because of false paths I entered) 19:30:43 <Terkhen> hello 19:30:58 <dihedral> the guy who advised using a version control system is also here :-P 19:32:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23972 /trunk/src/lang/ (korean.txt latvian.txt ukrainian.txt unfinished/urdu.txt): 19:32:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 19:32:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 54 changes by junho2813, telk5093 19:32:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 45 changes by Parastais 19:32:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 11 changes by edd_k 19:32:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: urdu - 194 changes by haider 19:34:06 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-74-237-106.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 19:36:39 *** Devroush [~dennis@62.205.106.79] has joined #openttd 19:37:29 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.73.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:40:47 <LordAro> also, why are grfcodec binaries not published to bundles.openttdcoop.org? 19:41:11 <LordAro> ok, perhaps they have to go through openttd.org, but perhaps a message or something about where they are? 19:41:39 <appe> valhallasw: ill try endswith. 19:43:54 *** pecisk_latvia is now known as pecisk_lv 19:44:27 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.69.17] has joined #openttd 19:44:42 *** Devroush [~dennis@62.205.106.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:47:45 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-178.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:47:55 *** rudolfs_lv [~rudolfs@95.68.90.243] has joined #openttd 19:48:07 *** rudolfs_lv [~rudolfs@95.68.90.243] has left #openttd [] 19:48:37 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-74-237-106.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:53:07 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:54:41 <Rubidium> LordAro: what's wrong with the link on e.g. http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec ? 19:55:37 <Rubidium> LordAro: mostly because grfcodec was compiled by the CF before it was on openttdcoop 19:56:27 <Rubidium> and it never made sense to move it 20:01:48 <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: also your patch doesn't apply to head and you specific no version and I can't be bothered to try to figure out what revision to apply it to 20:02:22 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 20:03:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:05:02 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host101-141-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:05:47 <Wolf01> oddink 20:06:28 <__ln__> yakshemash 20:07:05 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: fair enough. I'll update it. 20:09:11 <andythenorth> bonsoir 20:09:28 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: thanks for looking btw 20:09:59 <Rubidium> Wolf01: adamink 20:16:07 <LordAro> gah, my previous question was supposed to be on #openttdcoop.devzone - stupid mouse scroll wheel :) 20:16:33 <LordAro> Rubidium: the problem is htp://bundles.openttd.org/grfcodec appears to be empty 20:16:52 <LordAro> *http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/grfcodec 20:17:35 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has joined #openttd 20:17:50 <Rubidium> LordAro: blame Ammler for that ;) 20:18:20 <LordAro> hence why it was supposed to be in devzone channel :) 20:20:07 <Ammler> LordAro: where do you get the url to bundles? 20:21:01 <LordAro> not from anywhere else, it's just what i use to find the bundles (or did i misunderstand the question?) 20:21:53 <Ammler> no, I wonder, why you get the idea, that grfcodec should be there 20:22:27 <andythenorth> it is there isn't it? 20:23:03 <Ammler> it never was afaik, only nightlies we use for building the newgrfs there 20:24:03 <Ammler> andythenorth: speaking about publishing binaries on bundles, not developing on DevZone 20:25:49 <Ammler> Rubidium: blame me for? 20:26:52 <Ammler> shall we not publish those nightlies? 20:27:27 <LordAro> i still think there should be amessage about where the binaries actually are - took me a while to figure it out :) 20:27:40 <Ammler> yes, where should be that message? 20:28:19 <Ammler> on the homepage of grfcodec, it is quite clear, isn't? 20:28:55 <Rubidium> Ammler: it might not have been the wisest decision to keep binaries and logs that are purely for your compiler in the public "here are all the packaged binaries" section of the "website" (i.e. bundles.openttdcoop.org) 20:30:20 <Ammler> well, I can redirect that path to openttd.org as it isn't needed for http 20:31:21 <Ammler> hmm, right now, I am not able to ssh, I will create a ticket... :-) 20:39:48 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest3280 20:39:48 *** Guest3280 [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:39:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:42:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:15 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:46:38 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest3282 20:46:38 *** Guest3282 [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:46:45 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:47:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:04 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:55:55 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 20:57:27 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-021-234.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 21:08:20 *** Jogio [~5080e282@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:08:32 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-209-140.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 21:08:50 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.69.17] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:03 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.69.17] has joined #openttd 21:20:31 *** pecisk_lv [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:21:08 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:21:09 *** wica [5cfe669b@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:21:15 <wica> Hi 21:21:49 <Rubidium> hello 21:21:50 <wica> I'm running 1.2.0-beta4, and my online content stays empty 21:22:06 <wica> where do I start to search the problem? 21:22:28 <wica> and btw, my internet connection is working :) 21:22:42 <Rubidium> can you reach www.openttd.org? 21:22:51 <wica> Yep 21:22:51 <Rubidium> did the online content ever work? 21:23:04 *** pecisk_lv [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 21:23:17 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-109-88.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:23:22 <wica> It did, but I checked it a long time ago 21:23:39 <Rubidium> does your OS by any chance resolve IPv6 addresses, but without an actual IPv6 connection? 21:23:40 <wica> Last time, was I think 1 year ago 21:23:55 <wica> Thnx, that is to probloem 21:23:56 <Rubidium> as the server is currently working just fine for me 21:24:09 <wica> ipv6 resolving is the problem 21:24:21 <wica> stupid off my to forget :) 21:25:29 <wica> btw, great to hear that openttd has IPv6 support 21:26:19 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-109-88.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 21:28:15 <Rubidium> OpenTTD already has IPv6 support for over 1.5 million minutes ;) 21:28:53 <Rubidium> (or nearly 150 weeks) 21:38:30 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:41:28 <Terkhen> :) 21:45:41 <appe> ipv6 support measured in ..time? 21:45:51 <appe> what am i missing. 21:54:43 *** krinn [~krinn@183.210.73.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 21:56:19 <krinn> hi guys, i have an AIList and when i put elements in it (in random order), but when i foreach the list i see they are sort by value already, openttd always ressort an AIList when new item is add ? 21:58:07 <andythenorth> procedural tank trailer: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2490/tanktrailer.png 21:58:40 <Yexo> krinn: yes, that's by design 21:59:10 <krinn> ah, doesn't help me in my case so 21:59:38 <Zuu> You can use an item valuator or just AIList.AddItem(item, item); 21:59:44 <Yexo> use a simple list if you want to keep your original order 21:59:48 <krinn> and it's a bit time consuming to ressort list just because a item is add no ? i mean we have a function to ask a sort already 22:00:09 <andythenorth> hmm 22:00:10 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1136/ 22:00:13 <Yexo> yes, the current implementation is not very efficient 22:00:20 <andythenorth> ^^ for x, x = -1 :P 22:00:22 <andythenorth> bah 22:00:23 <krinn> i must use AIList, because i wish the value sort but after then i just wish keep the order 22:00:41 <Yexo> however it's hard to improve the code while keeping the current behavior is hard 22:00:51 <Zuu> You can sort squirrel lists too. 22:01:08 <Yexo> if the "keep list sorted when elements are added"-requirement can be dropped things become a lot easier already 22:01:22 <krinn> you know a bit like wishing add 90 30 40 i then set their value to 0 2 1 -> sorting them and now reusing their value with their real task while the list is sort as 90 40 30 22:01:25 <Zuu> I have a list implementation myself as in ScoreList in SuperLib from the very old times when NoAI was just released. 22:01:38 <Yexo> I might just do that for openttd 1.3 22:02:21 <krinn> not only that but adding 1000 elements to an AIList imply 1000 sorting no ? 22:02:38 <Yexo> adding an element to a sorted list is not as slow as a complete resort 22:02:50 <Yexo> not even close to it 22:03:16 <krinn> yep, but you are doing it 1 time for the sort, and 1000 time for the "add to already sort list" 22:03:58 <Yexo> but "add to sorted list" can be O(sqrt N) (it probably is O(N) though), which is much better than the O(N * sqrt N) you'd need for resorting every time 22:04:48 <andythenorth> hmm 22:05:02 * andythenorth was wondering if the tank trailer was too hard for procedural drawing 22:05:15 <andythenorth> but I can change the colours by adding one entry to a dict 22:05:18 <andythenorth> and it works :) 22:05:34 <krinn> i don't know, but the math seems weakned by logic there 22:05:34 <supermop> looks ok 22:08:21 <Zuu> After learning CluelssPlus how to build industry airports, I need to teach it some ROI calculations as it ended up with some expansive low profit coal routes. 22:08:59 <andythenorth> silver, 1cc, black, 2cc: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2491/tank_trailers.png 22:09:35 <MNIM> I like how it looks 22:09:48 *** Xrufuian [~link@pool-98-119-100-3.lsanca.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 22:09:50 <supermop> cool 22:10:16 <supermop> never seen a black tank on a truck though, only train cars 22:10:36 <supermop> would suggest white or silver with a cc stripe 22:11:00 <MNIM> ....Hmmmh. I've got one of the most expansive rail networks Ive ever made, spanning over the full 1024 tiles wide map, yet Im still using almost fourty year old trains. 22:11:12 <MNIM> Supermop: I have. 22:11:12 <andythenorth> let's see 22:12:06 *** Osai [~Osai@178.63.83.101] has left #openttd [] 22:13:10 <MNIM> Hmmmh. One of the main issues with black tanks is that they absorb heat like mad - not very desirable in most situations with liquid transport. 22:14:04 <MNIM> since most liquids that are transported in a tanker are either volatile or prone to evaporate and create high pressures when being heated up by a sun-lit black tank 22:14:17 <MNIM> or they go bad, like milk 22:17:40 <dihedral> Rhamphoryncus, #if 0 <- in your patch? 22:18:29 <Zuu> krinn: Do you have any new AI developments going on? 22:20:03 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2492/tank_trailers_2.png 22:20:47 <andythenorth> I nearly gave up on coding the tankers - glad I didn't :D 22:21:00 <andythenorth> it would have been no easier to draw them 22:21:17 <andythenorth> as coding them basically involves copying the pixel values for a section into code 22:22:03 <krinn> Zuu, yes dev was stall because of the big bug that let openttd crash, it was then hard to get, and i kinda lost faith 22:22:30 <krinn> Zuu, but it's now fix, so the moral is back 22:22:43 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:22:51 <andythenorth> this is the input file for the tanker: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2493/tanker_input.png 22:23:00 <Zuu> Which bug was it? The sort function? 22:23:07 <andythenorth> also the same input for flatbeds etc ;) 22:23:38 <krinn> no, that's not a bug, kinda unexpected feature for me, i will try to find the # in the bug report wait a sec 22:23:41 <Zuu> Great you're back on track :-) 22:24:04 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@206.Red-217-125-191.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 22:24:09 <krinn> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5068 22:24:30 <krinn> a stupid recursive call, the vm was going OOM and openttd crash 22:24:39 <Zuu> The squirrel sort had a problem that you could hang OpenTTD with a badly written comparator function. 22:25:12 <dihedral> krinn, it's fixed ... 22:25:43 <krinn> and i was stuck as i couldn't get any ouput from the ai (i know don't ask me why i didn't think before to run it in a console to get the output) 22:26:22 <krinn> dihedral, yep it should, but the issue with my AI trigger the bug and it was then hard to catch what was doing it 22:27:16 <Zuu> Whenever I succed to crash OpenTTD with an AI or GameScript I compile OpenTTD myself and run it from a debugger (Visual Studio) so that I can see the callstack of OpenTTD when it crashes to perhaps get an idea what the problem is. Of course I submit a bug report also, if I manage to crash OpenTTD. 22:27:20 <krinn> crash.log should record last message from AI 22:28:18 <krinn> lol zuu, it was easier for me (that's why i'm a bit ashame) i just have to run it in the console, so once crash i was back to the console and i could scroll up the buffer to see my last ai messages 22:28:56 <Yexo> as long as you report the crash on bugs.openttd.org it's fine :) 22:29:15 <Yexo> extra investigation like Zuu does is of course greatly appreciated, but I'd vastly prefer feedback without it then no feedback at all 22:29:54 <krinn> well, once i find the bad recursion in my AI the problem for openttd was easier to find no ? 22:30:03 <Yexo> yep 22:30:43 <Yexo> (or rather: most likely. I didn't actually see that bug until just now) 22:31:27 <Zuu> But probably it did. Because a problem with stack overflows is that they usually make the callstack useless if you look at it when the debugger auto-kicks in as it is too late. 22:32:00 <Zuu> It helps to have an idea when you want to start looking at the callstack. 22:32:10 <Rubidium> having a reliable crash/reproduction is most important; only once I figured out under which circumstances it crashed I could see the call stack and such 22:32:17 <krinn> well, it was a stupid bug, but it's always good as someone might have use it to DOS some openttd server or anything 22:32:57 <krinn> specially with the new NoGo framework that should also be affect 22:32:57 <dihedral> by needing the admin to install an ai 22:33:00 <Rubidium> krinn: luckily it has to be initiated by the server owner (or someone with rcon password) 22:33:24 <krinn> with NoGo, you can do it nasty and have the admin do the task for you 22:34:11 <krinn> generally except (belgium trojan), people avoid to name their trojan as "trojan-thing" "crash-your-game"... :) 22:34:24 <Zuu> The server owner still have to select the NoGo, unless triggered via a scenario/savegame 22:34:39 <dihedral> which the server owner will only do once :P 22:35:35 <krinn> well, for me it was running yearly, but it would be harder if trigger by date or every 10 years to catch it 22:36:17 <krinn> anyway you can imagine how bad my mood was that my AI let openttd crash :/ 22:36:56 <Zuu> See it the other way, you found a bug that is now ironed out. 22:36:57 * Rubidium remembers a desync that'd only trigger after ~20 game years 22:37:28 <Rubidium> which means you needed to be connected for >5 hours to be "egligable" to desync 22:37:50 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: need tank wagons? 22:37:52 <andythenorth> :) 22:37:57 <krinn> well, one could have made it in a nogo script trigger by even by a player to crash the server 22:37:58 <dihedral> which can be easily done for some players, Rubidium :-D 22:38:29 * andythenorth ponders 22:38:35 <krinn> i mean put 3 trees at pos X --> trigger the bug... dos by a player, and the server owner could run it 10000 years without trigger it himself 22:38:38 <dihedral> krinn, of course, but still, the NoGo script has to be installed by the admin, and then he will never do it again ;-) 22:39:02 <andythenorth> hmm....gestalts could be shared around 22:39:08 <krinn> dihedral, he must catch it first :P 22:39:23 <andythenorth> that means anyone could create an input png and generate vehicles of type x :P 22:39:32 <krinn> and without reviewing the nogo code himself, he certainly won't 22:39:33 <Zuu> and it still only affects the server, not the clients (other than them loosing their game) 22:39:34 <Yexo> krinn: his server crashes: crashlog point to NoGo code: don't use the last-most script anymore 22:39:52 <dihedral> and then then players stop playing there too 22:40:33 <Yexo> a few reports in the forum about one particular NoGo script: somebody will investigate and might find the cause 22:40:36 <dihedral> + a dozen of open threads in the forums and bug reports until the message spreads 22:40:42 <dihedral> :-D 22:40:47 <krinn> :D 22:40:49 <dihedral> high five Yexo 22:40:55 <Yexo> :) 22:41:09 <Yexo> good night :) 22:41:14 <krinn> well really few bug report as it need a trigger the maker only knows 22:41:16 <Zuu> Night Yexo 22:41:28 * dihedral is of to bed, good night gents 22:41:36 <dihedral> ... Yexo this is getting scary 22:41:39 <krinn> you might see "i have thebug v 1" too in my server and it is runing it for 3 month without crashing... 22:41:56 <krinn> nigth dihedral 22:42:13 <Zuu> Night dihedral 22:46:43 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:50:58 * andythenorth is quitting whilst winning 22:51:13 <andythenorth> otherwise I get no sleep :P 22:53:28 <Terkhen> good night 22:53:43 <krinn> going too, good night all 22:53:51 *** krinn [~krinn@183.210.73.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 22:54:35 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: need tank wagons? <-- plenty :) 22:55:23 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: might be able to help with that... 22:58:13 <andythenorth> but first....sleeping :) 22:59:33 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 23:05:06 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.69.17] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 23:05:27 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.69.17] has joined #openttd 23:12:11 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 23:17:11 *** valhalla2w [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 23:18:16 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:20:21 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:25:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1ABDC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:23 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-237-225.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."] 23:34:59 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@206.Red-217-125-191.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:44:40 <frosch123> night 23:44:43 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7a24.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:49 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-178.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:50:05 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:53:26 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 23:54:11 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:58:54 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd