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00:09:01 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db136c8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 00:13:12 *** TrueBrain [~patric@ip82-139-89-237.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:23:28 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@29.Red-81-39-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:27:01 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 00:29:34 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 00:51:43 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 00:52:48 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-80-30.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:04:52 *** TrueBrain [~patric@ip82-139-89-237.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 01:15:55 *** Firartix [~artixds@159.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:28:37 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120216100510]] 01:33:26 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 01:36:21 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51:17 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 02:05:08 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 02:11:35 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d114-78-20-54.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 02:20:35 <Pikka> yes 02:22:02 <__ln__> no 02:24:54 <Pikka> perhaps? 02:25:13 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:25:20 <__ln__> too early to say 02:33:38 <Pikka> you realise that this means the end of the horse-drawn zeppelin? 02:38:37 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:45:14 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has joined #openttd 03:06:16 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:38ac:7e24:6dec:901e] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:52:09 <Pikka> why am I wasting my time coding things like a single livery parameter that no-one's ever going to use? 03:55:53 <Pikka> because it's fun, that's why. 05:05:22 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-252-106.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 05:05:25 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 05:11:27 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-60-132.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:13:41 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-149-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 05:18:57 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-252-106.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:22:10 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-153-174.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 05:22:13 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 05:23:31 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 05:27:25 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-149-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:46:01 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 05:47:53 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-1-188.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 05:53:57 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-153-174.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:55:28 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74086.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:55:48 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73F2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:12:33 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has joined #openttd 07:15:04 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:27:08 <planetmaker> moin 07:37:21 *** Twofish [~Twofish@77-95-76-210.bb.cust.hknett.no] has joined #openttd 07:55:41 *** Enoria [~Enoria@albaldah.dreamhost.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:57:53 *** Enoria [~Enoria@albaldah.dreamhost.com] has joined #openttd 08:00:42 <Pikka> boin 08:09:22 *** Enoria [~Enoria@albaldah.dreamhost.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:21:29 *** Enoria [~Enoria@albaldah.dreamhost.com] has joined #openttd 08:31:58 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 08:34:07 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AD14.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:49:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:50:19 <Pikka> hey bananamen 08:50:24 <Pikka> what is "Unexpected error while uploading."? 08:50:36 <Pikka> good morning andythenorth 08:50:48 <andythenorth> something unexpected this way comes? 08:51:39 <Pikka> apparently 08:51:47 <Pikka> who are the bananamen around here? planetmaker? 08:54:38 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: 08:54:40 <andythenorth> Rubidium: 08:54:43 <andythenorth> there you go ;) 08:57:35 * Pikka joins andythenorth in stirring the britttrains pot 08:58:45 *** hbccbh [~hbc@119.133.241.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:59:00 <andythenorth> I am considering forking it, and calling it 'slightly uninteresting car crash' 08:59:31 * Pikka forks FISH 09:00:46 <andythenorth> hmm 09:00:54 * andythenorth considers FRIED_CHICKEN 09:01:27 * Pikka prods banananananas 09:02:28 <Pikka> bananas "version numbers" are unimportant, right? 09:02:40 <andythenorth> hmm 09:03:37 <Pikka> bananas only knows "latest" vs "old", and OTTD uses the action14 version in the grf 09:03:58 <Pikka> I just wonder because I'm replacing 0.82 with 0.1.0 :] 09:04:27 <planetmaker> Pikka, bananas only cares about the action14 version really 09:04:39 <Pikka> that's what I thought 09:04:44 <Pikka> so 09:04:50 <planetmaker> and indeed, via the normal online content download you only get the 'latest' 09:04:50 <Pikka> why is it not uploading? :) 09:05:11 <planetmaker> But if you have an old savegame, you always get the matching newgrf (md5sum) 09:05:22 <planetmaker> dunno, what error do you get? 09:05:47 <Pikka> Unexpected error while uploading. 09:10:20 <andythenorth> someone else had bananas issue recently....old ships? 09:10:34 <Pikka> spaces in filenames or something? 09:10:45 <Pikka> this is the same zip I've always uploaded, just with a newer grf in it 09:10:52 <andythenorth> hmm 09:11:29 * andythenorth can't think of a way to test :o 09:12:30 * Pikka wonders disk space limits? 09:13:53 <andythenorth> I don't have any grfs with updates that I could upload :O 09:14:50 <andythenorth> raise a FS ticket? 09:15:42 <appe> what factors make the train maintaince cost differ? 09:15:47 <appe> i see it going up and down all the time. 09:15:53 <appe> for individual trains, that is. 09:16:39 <Pikka> what grf are you using, appe? 09:16:45 <Pikka> they shouldn't change at all with the default trains 09:17:29 * andythenorth could update FIRS 09:21:40 <andythenorth> Pikka: split Leanden and Oberhumer's posts to a new Britttrains thread? ;) 09:21:53 <andythenorth> then the BROS guys can carry on arguing in their own thread 09:21:57 <Pikka> I could 09:22:47 <appe> Pikka: ah, i guess i was looking at a grf. i think it was the royal hudson (and i cant remember what grf that is) 09:23:06 <dihedral> thanks! 09:30:04 <Pikka> threads split, expecting everyone to turn around and gang up on me now. :) 09:30:11 <andythenorth> you can take it ;) 09:30:11 * andythenorth will try uploading new FIRS to bananananas - after a quick nappy change (not mine) 09:31:53 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178199210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 09:32:13 <peter1138> does it include 32bpp ez sprites now? 09:33:47 <andythenorth> lol 09:33:50 <andythenorth> etc 09:35:55 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-077-050.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:37:57 <andythenorth> Pikka: no error uploading FIRS :( 09:38:16 <Pikka> hmm 09:38:29 <Pikka> possibly a connection problem 09:45:51 <Pikka> I'll try again later I suppose 09:47:06 <andythenorth> I can try for you - depends if you want to share your password or not... 09:47:44 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-077-050.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 09:53:14 <andythenorth> hmm 09:53:25 <andythenorth> I can't update to FIRS 0.7.1 from abananaasas 09:53:40 <Rhamphoryncus> asasasasas 09:53:40 <andythenorth> ottd downloads it, but then can't see it 09:54:03 <andythenorth> when I revisit the online content dialogue, the checkbox for FIRS is unchecked 09:54:58 <andythenorth> 0.7.1 doesn't appear to be in my ottd filesystem either 09:56:13 <andythenorth> and I don't seem to have any locally-installed versions of 0.7.1 or 0.7.0 09:56:40 <andythenorth> oh 09:58:37 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-077-050.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:58:44 <andythenorth> there is now a newgrf dir as well as a data dir 10:04:20 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: hey, mind giving me some feedback? http://i.imgur.com/rEnGo.png 10:05:14 <Pikka> andy, maybe later, dindins 10:05:16 <xiong> Rhamphoryncus, what version is that? 10:05:22 <Rhamphoryncus> That's my patch 10:05:32 <Rhamphoryncus> Nowhere near done 10:06:17 <xiong> Um... can I say I don't like it? Not knowing your intent. I just don't like a wider order window. Can it be narrowed, if needed, taller? 10:06:30 <dihedral> what does your patch do again? 10:07:04 <xiong> Oh wait. I'm guessing your entire intent was to make the window wider and less tall. Sorry. 10:07:09 <Rhamphoryncus> narrowed, no. That's one of the things I don't like. Yes, it organizes the information better, but the time columns are noisy and typically unused 10:07:28 <Rhamphoryncus> dihedral: reorganizing the order and timetable window into one 10:07:49 <Rhamphoryncus> It'll include more later on 10:09:20 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120216100510]] 10:10:04 <xiong> I like that the timetable is in straight days. I find the full date format confusing, especially since I can't seem to make all the dates come out to ISO format. 10:10:38 <xiong> Besides, nothing ingame is seasonal. Years matter, days matter; months are irrelevant. Straight days in timetable = win. 10:10:40 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@29.Red-81-39-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 10:10:57 <Rhamphoryncus> yeah, I have another patch (on the tracker) that makes timetables better. This one builds on that. 10:12:49 <Rhamphoryncus> I change a lot of the default assumptions in the labels. Those orders are all non-stop. non-non-stop are displayed as "local" 10:14:40 <xiong> Cool. 10:14:50 <xiong> Automatic timetabling? 10:15:00 <Rhamphoryncus> Automatic balancing 10:15:42 <Rhamphoryncus> So you can hit autofill, tweak the values, and then adding or removing vehicles will maintain their spacing 10:15:47 <xiong> Whatever. Anything to relieve the tedium of carefully timetabling a set of trains, only to have the entire applecart upset as soon as another train is added to the route or all the engines are upgraded. 10:16:05 <Rhamphoryncus> yup 10:16:26 <xiong> I tried, and liked, the automatic feature in chillpack. But it doesn't deal well, or at all, with via orders or conditionals. 10:16:41 <Rhamphoryncus> Future will include average times so you know if you need to tweak the times 10:16:58 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, mine doesn't handle conditionals yet either. 10:17:13 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-229-44.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:17:17 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 10:17:35 <Rhamphoryncus> I'm considering some way to override the number of vehicles and only use part of the orders as timetabled 10:17:36 <planetmaker> andythenorth, yes, newgrf dir and data dir might confuse eachother... if there's the same dir within each of them 10:17:39 <xiong> Hey, here's something you might slide in, would be highly appreciated: Ability to autofill just to get the leg and total times; and not force the vehicle to *obey* the timetable. 10:17:51 <Ammler> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=749128 <-- about language issue, dunno, if it needs login, let me copy to paste 10:17:55 <Rhamphoryncus> Just so you can see how long it takes? 10:18:01 <xiong> Exactly. 10:18:06 <Rhamphoryncus> average times would be that 10:18:14 <xiong> Yah. 10:18:34 <Ammler> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1158/ 10:18:38 <xiong> But in general, it should be possible to turn off timetabling without destroying the timetable. 10:18:46 <xiong> There is no "off" button. 10:19:23 <Rhamphoryncus> Well, I'm not planning a toggle, but the average would be displayed regardless so it'd be easy to recreate 10:20:02 <planetmaker> how did you end up there, Ammler ? 10:20:11 <xiong> I'd call that a good step. 10:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe toggle between average time, scheduled time and average speed? 10:20:31 <Rhamphoryncus> Eddi|zuHause: that's a thought 10:20:44 <Rhamphoryncus> I hadn't figured out where to display it :) 10:20:49 <Ammler> planetmaker: not me, a suse user is reporting it 10:21:20 <Rhamphoryncus> Ammler: my first guess is a packaging issue is mixing openttd versions 10:21:34 <xiong> If I might suggest: You can eliminate worries about vias, conditionals, depoting, and all other disruptions if you think locally. No vehicle on automatic should try to do anything except equalize headway for itself. . 10:22:18 <planetmaker> Ammler, thus... the build distributed by suse is faulty? 10:22:20 <xiong> In particular, vehicles that depot should be encouraged to add headway *then*, in depot; and not merely in station, which is not always best. 10:22:21 <Ammler> Rhamphoryncus: I am the packager and I can't reproduce it 10:22:43 <Ammler> planetmaker: how 10:22:48 <Rhamphoryncus> Ammler: arch issues? 32 vs 64 bit? 10:22:49 <planetmaker> I've no idea 10:22:58 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-1-188.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:23:06 <Ammler> Rhamphoryncus: only the binary openttd is arch, the rest is noarch 10:23:28 <planetmaker> Ammler, but language files are part of the arch'ed package. And are compiled there 10:23:39 <planetmaker> by a separate programme generated on runtime 10:23:43 <planetmaker> of the compilation 10:23:53 <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: not sure what you mean about depots. 10:24:19 <dihedral> wait what? did i just read that nick? 10:25:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: this kind of error happens when you update only the binary, not the lang files. or if you update the langfiles and not the binary (e.g. because the program is running or something) 10:25:35 <xiong> Rhamphoryncus, I've only ever observed a timetabled vehicle (that is early) adding headway by waiting in station; never in depot. 10:25:53 <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: you want them to *wait* in a depot? 10:25:55 <xiong> But if you're in a station, I think it's obviously the best time to wait. 10:26:07 <dihedral> Ammler, did you just stumble across this error in the bug tracker, or did you experience it yourself? 10:26:17 <xiong> Erm, I meant to say, if you're in a depot, it's obviously the best time to wait. 10:26:18 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AD14.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:26:25 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-077-050.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 10:26:34 <Rhamphoryncus> Waiting in the depot would be bad for your service rating 10:26:45 <Rhamphoryncus> And your payment if you had cargo at the time. 10:26:52 <planetmaker> Ammler, indeed I can imagine this happens when the user builds his own openttd - but not the lang files while he has installed an (old) OpenTTD via the package manager. 10:27:03 <planetmaker> or maybe when he downloaded a binary somewhere w/o lang files 10:27:09 <xiong> It wouldn't be good, no. It's a tradeoff. One doesn't want blocked platforms. Perhaps it could be an option. 10:27:21 <Rhamphoryncus> dihedral: <Ammler> Rhamphoryncus: I am the packager and I can't reproduce it 10:27:40 <planetmaker> Some people are known to cut off the lang files from their downloads because of "space considerations" 10:27:50 <planetmaker> (and then download another BR disk) 10:27:54 <dihedral> Ammler, could it be that the user updated the binary via some not intended method? 10:28:05 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-077-050.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 10:28:08 <xiong> There's really no *good* place to *stop*; which is why real trains rarely do this to maintain schedule. Instead, they slow down a little. 10:28:18 <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: if you're low on capacity due to that you should tighten your schedule 10:28:34 <Ammler> I asked him to join here, maybe he will :-) 10:29:21 *** Firartix [~artixds@159.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 10:29:28 <dihedral> he only mentions openttd-data version and not the version of the binary he is running ;-) 10:29:54 <dihedral> and i could imagine hime having tried to update the openttd binary by downloading a version from the website without updating the other stuff 10:30:01 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-077-050.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 10:30:20 <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: however, I've added "lateness" to my list of things I want to add to conditional orders. :) 10:30:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the lang files should really not be part of openttd-data 10:30:51 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: so those are arch? 10:31:07 <Ammler> I always thought, openttd is the only arch file 10:31:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the lang files must exactly match the binary. arch is irrelevant 10:31:45 *** evdvelde [~evdvelde@143.129.80.37] has joined #openttd 10:31:49 <planetmaker> Indeed, very much so 10:31:52 <Eddi|zuHause> but you can have openttd-versonA and openttd-data-versopmB installed 10:32:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and then the lang files would be invalid 10:32:07 <Ammler> theny you need to ignore require rules 10:32:25 <Eddi|zuHause> that's stupid to rely on 10:32:28 <planetmaker> Ammler, you really distribute lang files independent of the binary? 10:32:32 <planetmaker> they're separate packages? 10:32:41 <planetmaker> That's not a good idea 10:32:50 <planetmaker> lang files belong to the binary. 10:32:57 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd-data can be opengfx,openmsx and stuff, but _not_ the lang files 10:33:08 <planetmaker> ^^ 10:33:34 <dihedral> ubuntu does it too 10:33:45 <Eddi|zuHause> then they're wrong, too... 10:33:49 <planetmaker> yep 10:34:00 <planetmaker> everything make bundle creates needs updating when OpenTTD is updated 10:34:00 <dihedral> they just define a dependency 10:34:03 <planetmaker> it's there for a reason 10:34:10 <dihedral> why on earth they do not put that stuff into one package i do not know 10:34:21 <Rhamphoryncus> dihedral: they have "policy" ;) 10:35:19 <dihedral> you don't say 10:35:52 <evdvelde> The question remains why lang is so tightly bound to the binary of course 10:36:16 <Rhamphoryncus> Anybody experienced with RTL languages? Should that entire set of columns get reversed? 10:37:14 <dihedral> Rhamphoryncus, check how other tables get displayed 10:37:16 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-077-050.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 10:37:25 <Rhamphoryncus> I was just starting to do that 10:38:00 <Rhamphoryncus> Some languages are creating an extra column in my window, which remains unrendered. Odd. 10:39:11 <Rhamphoryncus> Ahh Hebrew, there we go :D 10:39:31 <Eddi|zuHause> evdvelde: well, that's how it evolved, i guess 10:40:10 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@29.Red-81-39-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:40:19 <Eddi|zuHause> evdvelde: we have a pretty elaborate grammar system, that may break when the binary and lang doesn't exactly match 10:41:08 <Eddi|zuHause> technically, we may have safeguards now that the grammar is exposed to NewGRFs, but those may be missing in some places... 10:41:49 <Rhamphoryncus> Indeed, there's a bug open right now about crashing openttd that way 10:41:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it would be a pretty elaborate work to fiddle that out, and very little benefit, as 99.9% of the people would have the correct versions anyway 10:42:04 *** Firartix [~artixds@159.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:43:50 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-198-242.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:45:12 <xiong> Fry3k has not been seen on forum for quite some time and he hasn't updated his FIRS cargo chart. http://wiki.openttd.org/FIRS_cargos is... not enough. Are major changes planned to FIRS economy or would a new chart be welcome? 10:46:22 <Pikka> still want to have a go at it andythenorth? 10:46:59 <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: there's at least 2 other charts out there 10:47:29 <andythenorth> Pikka: if it can be done one-handed, yes ;) 10:47:59 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-229-44.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:48:19 <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: http://blog.openttdcoop.org/2012/01/27/firs-industry-and-cargo-chart/ 10:49:28 <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: but if you can make a *better* chart.. it's worth trying. My personal desire is to break it into two charts, one farming oriented, the other engineering oriented 10:51:29 <Rhamphoryncus> Oi, now I can't resist trying it :) 10:51:39 <xiong> Well, I don't have any reason to criticize https://blog.openttdcoop.org/files/blog/2012/01/FIRS_chart-0.2.02.png but it should be linked in wiki. 10:52:29 <Eddi|zuHause> that fails to load 10:52:34 *** Firartix [~artixds@159.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 10:52:57 <xiong> Now that I think of it... it might be nice if it were more readable when zoomed out, to fit in an average-sized browser window. 10:53:39 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 10:53:50 <xiong> But it looks well laid-out. 10:57:23 <xiong> Anyway, thanks Rhamphoryncus. 10:58:28 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [] 11:02:03 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-198-242.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:04:58 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-250-79.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:05:02 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 11:07:43 <andythenorth> hmm 11:07:48 <Pikka> hmmmm 11:07:59 <andythenorth> absence of FIRS 0.7.1 looked like a bug in a specific rev of ottd 11:08:04 <andythenorth> updating to tip has solved it 11:10:36 <xiong> I had a train running accidentally without a caboose! Did not complain. 11:10:59 <Rhamphoryncus> uhh yeah, cabooses are nothing but candy 11:12:06 <xiong> Cabooses were required for freight trains. Now I see no wiki page for them. 11:12:50 <Rhamphoryncus> In real life, not in the game 11:13:20 <xiong> I distinctly recall they were stated to be required ingame. 11:13:27 <Pikka> Rhamphoryncus: it depends what grf you're using, and xiong, it depends what wiki you're looking at. :] 11:13:31 <xiong> Dunno if I read that on wiki or what. 11:13:40 <Rhamphoryncus> Pikka: some can enforce it? Huh. 11:13:47 <Pikka> http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Caboose 11:13:49 <xiong> Not this: http://wiki.openttd.org/?title=Special%3ALog&type=&user=&page=caboose 11:14:56 <Rhamphoryncus> Pikka: cool 11:15:28 <xiong> I feel ill. You mean *all* the cabooses I've built have been for nothing? 11:15:59 <xiong> Where did I read that? I didn't just make it up. I distinctly recall the statement that a pax car counted as a caboose. 11:16:01 <planetmaker> andythenorth, the requirement of new FIRS probably is 1.2.0-RC1 or newer 11:16:32 <andythenorth> I was 193 changesets behind tip 11:17:01 <planetmaker> you might want to adjust bananas min version entry accordingly 11:17:09 <planetmaker> though... maybe it cannot be selected atm 11:17:20 <Rhamphoryncus> Pikka: are those list of parameters meant to mean "when all of the following apply"? 11:17:38 <Pikka> yes 11:19:44 <xiong> Enough for me. Bed. 11:19:46 <Rhamphoryncus> Not working 11:20:05 <Rhamphoryncus> hrm 11:20:19 <Eddi|zuHause> "zOMG, chancellor majority failed. now the government will break apart"... why don't i read that in the papers? 11:21:07 <Rhamphoryncus> Grasshopper is bugged 11:27:03 *** FrankyJones [4da65ea6@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 11:28:11 <Rhamphoryncus> But it won't autoreplace without the caboose, so it's fine :) 11:29:17 <FrankyJones> Hello, after installing 1.2.0 RC1 today openttd told me my basic grf sets are missing a few sprites, whats to do? 11:29:35 <Eddi|zuHause> update to newer opengfx 11:29:46 <Eddi|zuHause> should be possible from online content 11:30:17 <FrankyJones> Ok, so like 're-read' the grf's in my list... 11:30:32 <Eddi|zuHause> no, not the newgrfs, the base grf 11:30:47 <FrankyJones> Ah ok got it! Thanks! 11:31:57 *** FrankyJones [4da65ea6@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [] 11:35:00 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: / planetmaker, distributing those seperately is required for dedicated version, also we distribute it that way since ever 11:36:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: so you were just lucky that nobody ever ignored the dependency 11:36:32 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d114-78-20-54.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:36:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: and why is that "required"? 11:36:55 <Eddi|zuHause> you can just put the lang files in both the "normal" and "dedicated" version 11:36:55 <Ammler> not required :-) 11:37:11 <Eddi|zuHause> or even leave out all but english.lng from the dedicated 11:41:32 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: you can't pack the same file twice, at least I would not have a clue how 11:42:18 *** nilsi [~merman@p57B60E76.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> then your build system is weird/lacking a feature 11:44:43 <Ammler> not really, there is no need 11:45:11 <Ammler> the guy on suse found his issue, he just did not tell what yet :-) 11:47:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: other option would be to split -lang (with tight version requirement) and -data (with less tight requirement) 11:49:07 <Ammler> why should split to -lang work, but split to -data doesn't? 11:49:50 <Ammler> of course, there is already tight version requirement for -data 11:50:57 <Rhamphoryncus> Mmm, it is nice when you just call a function or two and the existing architecture does all the work for you ^_^ 12:03:54 <Ammler> also debian does do it the same way, afaik 12:03:55 <planetmaker> Ammler, how does dedicated / non-dedicated differ in the lang requirements? 12:04:03 <Ammler> it doesn't 12:04:10 <planetmaker> Splitting lang from the binary is a very bad idea and should - IMHO must - not be done 12:04:35 <Ammler> well, not possible 12:04:45 <planetmaker> as wrt dedicated and non-dedicated package: just make it different packages... 12:04:57 <Ammler> but please, if you have an idea, how I am open for suggestions 12:05:26 <planetmaker> Ammler, you can't have both, a dedicated and non-dedicated openttd at the same time anyway, can you? 12:05:33 <Rhamphoryncus> http://i.imgur.com/oD0JZ.png 12:05:55 <Rhamphoryncus> Replaced the timetable columns with mere right-aligning 12:06:06 <planetmaker> and if so, they need to be compiled such that they use different search paths for their lang files - or you could not have them at different versions 12:06:23 <planetmaker> not sure one can change compile-time the path for lang files, though 12:07:30 <Rhamphoryncus> More feedback welcome 12:07:42 <planetmaker> as such what I'd do is: make two packages, one dedicated, one non-dedicated which are mutually exclusive 12:07:54 <planetmaker> and then always install the lang files which belong to that very package 12:08:26 <Ammler> planetmaker: can we discuss the issue and not make a new one :-) 12:08:46 <Rhamphoryncus> Not sure what to do about conditional orders. Half tempted to draw them over the column separator 12:09:00 <planetmaker> Ammler, so... what's the issue then when it's not lang files which do not match the binary? 12:10:20 <planetmaker> wrt data the requirement is MUCH less strict. You may not even need it, if you have your own. While you *always* need the lang files 12:10:44 <planetmaker> where you basically cannot have your own, if you don't have the source of the openttd which built the binary you have installed 12:13:16 <andythenorth> I never understood 'travel' in the timetabling 12:13:29 <andythenorth> it's not deterministic, so wtf to setting a value for it? 12:15:43 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d086f43.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:15:46 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: it's the expected travel time. For most purposes you could merge it with load time 12:17:18 <Rhamphoryncus> I've thought about doing that. I'd need a separate way to control partial vs complete timetables. 12:18:03 *** evdvelde [~evdvelde@143.129.80.37] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:18:39 <Rhamphoryncus> hrm. Single column with the right being "Wait for any full load [35 days]"? 12:20:23 <Ammler> planetmaker: if I have a issue on my package, not splitting it would not solve it 12:20:51 <Ammler> there might be 2 packages, but still built together and during dependency rules bound 12:22:37 <Ammler> I basically asked here to get tips what else it could cause 12:25:29 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@29.Red-81-39-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 12:39:27 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 12:50:40 <andythenorth> hmm 12:50:48 * andythenorth can't find a non-convoluted way to do this 12:51:17 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d114-78-20-54.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:51:21 <andythenorth> passing arbitrary arguments down a call chain of framework code to a custom function written by a user of the framework 12:51:36 <andythenorth> could do ** args and such but it's ugly, and might be explodey 12:51:42 <andythenorth> maybe I won't bother :P 12:51:48 <peter1138> void * 12:51:50 <peter1138> normally 12:52:01 <peter1138> let the caller use their own data structure 12:52:08 <peter1138> (object if you're using such a language) 12:52:44 <peter1138> next problem? 12:53:47 <andythenorth> prevent unintended consequences? 12:53:53 <andythenorth> e.g. collision of vars etc 12:54:44 <andythenorth> or assume user deals with that? 12:55:10 <andythenorth> likely result is only a type error, or some wrong pixels 12:56:42 <andythenorth> nvm 12:56:45 * andythenorth figured it out 12:58:51 <Rhamphoryncus> :) 13:04:35 <andythenorth> in face albert figured out in the code he gave me, but I misunderstood the implications :o 13:04:39 <andythenorth> face / fact /s 13:07:13 <peter1138> user deals with it 13:09:58 <andythenorth> that's what albert's code tells me too :) 13:11:43 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.124.217.99] has joined #openttd 13:12:14 <andythenorth> suddenly all is clear :) 13:18:22 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:6590:dbc5:4d0a:39c6] has joined #openttd 13:18:26 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:26:22 *** Eddi|nichZuHause [~EddinichZ@46.115.18.185] has joined #openttd 13:28:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:29:22 <Eddi|nichZuHause> Rhamphoryncus: what's "exchange cargo" in your pictures anyway? 13:29:32 <Rhamphoryncus> load and u nload 13:29:58 <Rhamphoryncus> Which is the default normally, but rarely actually desired 13:33:55 <Eddi|nichZuHause> rather call it "unload if accepted and load" then 13:34:08 <Eddi|nichZuHause> "exchange" makes it easy to confuse with "transfer" 13:34:53 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 13:37:05 <Rhamphoryncus> Really? I don't interpret it that way 13:37:33 <Rhamphoryncus> And unload if accepted is really long 13:38:39 <Rhamphoryncus> hrm 13:39:31 <Rhamphoryncus> Ah right, it was the common cases that were long 13:39:45 <Rhamphoryncus> For a timetabled PAX route all you want is "exchange cargo" 13:40:03 <Rhamphoryncus> Labelling it as "unload if accepted and take cargo" is overly verbose 13:41:47 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@29.Red-81-39-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:43:36 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus, but it's verbose for a reason. It's unambiguous 13:44:01 <Rhamphoryncus> In the context of my window is unambiguous. My messages are consistent 13:44:30 <planetmaker> I have the feeling you're trying to "fix" a dozen things at a time. Often not a good idea 13:44:41 <Rhamphoryncus> I am 13:44:52 <Rhamphoryncus> A dozen things is probably an underestimation 13:45:26 <planetmaker> "wonderful" 13:45:38 <Rhamphoryncus> There's a lot of interrelation 13:46:09 <Rhamphoryncus> I've tried to do some piecemeal (patches already posted), but there's limits to how much I can do there 13:46:43 <Rhamphoryncus> This.. could probably be segmented into a separate patch 13:47:04 <planetmaker> Whatever you do, renaming the single load orders probably is not a good idea 13:47:19 <Rhamphoryncus> Because it's different? 13:47:33 <Rhamphoryncus> I'm changing non-stop too 13:48:07 <planetmaker> do trains behave different? And why remove that order type? 13:48:14 <Rhamphoryncus> No and I'm not removing it 13:48:19 <planetmaker> if they behave the same? Why rename it? 13:48:30 <Rhamphoryncus> I'm changing the label. Non-stop is assumed, "as local" is displayed if not used. 13:48:52 <Rhamphoryncus> The vast majority of orders should be non-stop. So much that there's an option to do so by default 13:49:16 <Rhamphoryncus> Other than some insane openttdcoop self-regulating stuff there isn't any functional need for local orders 13:50:08 <planetmaker> ehm... I guess openttdcoop is who use goto with intermediate stop the least. But there are many reasons to use it 13:50:43 <planetmaker> you should not necessarily assume that your way to use orders is the only one or the most likely one :-) 13:50:52 <Rhamphoryncus> What was is there? 13:50:57 <Rhamphoryncus> way* 13:51:23 <Rhamphoryncus> I don't assume. I search and try to find alternative uses. Self-regulating is the only one I found. 13:51:32 <planetmaker> any line A-B with intermediate stops is quickly ordered without non-stop 13:51:57 <Rhamphoryncus> So, saves a couple clicks 13:52:11 <Rhamphoryncus> But you have to click in the UI to enable it 13:52:20 <Rhamphoryncus> And you're treated with the noise of all the non-stop 13:53:40 <planetmaker> not sure what you mean with 'noise' 13:53:56 <planetmaker> and... you have to enable non-stop explicitly, too 13:53:59 <Rhamphoryncus> Nearly every line repeating "non-stop"? 13:54:13 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, only because it's not original to ttd 13:54:52 <planetmaker> well, I can only advise to keep "non-stop". It's a clear naming. Everyone understands that. 13:55:02 <planetmaker> While otoh "local" is a totally fuzzy concept 13:55:16 <Rhamphoryncus> local is a pretty standard term 13:55:22 <Rhamphoryncus> I didn't invent it 13:55:32 <V453000> in general I would join the ranks of advising to keep any naming as original 13:55:40 <V453000> just renaming things probably doesnt help anything 13:55:49 <V453000> "local" order would be very unobvious to me 13:56:07 <Rhamphoryncus> Only because it's a change. 13:56:11 <planetmaker> no 13:56:23 <planetmaker> it doesn't tell me *anything* about how the order behaves 13:56:36 <planetmaker> while "goto non-stop to A" is absolutely clear 13:56:40 <Rhamphoryncus> It's the exact opposite of non-stop 13:56:48 <V453000> local is opposite of nonstop? :o 13:56:50 <planetmaker> in your wording, yes 13:56:59 <planetmaker> but not in general language understanding 13:57:00 <Rhamphoryncus> Why would you assume if you see "goto A" that it'd go to B, C, and D if it felt like it? 13:57:16 <planetmaker> B,C and D are on the way 13:57:17 <Rhamphoryncus> In the context of bus and train routes there's local and express 13:57:19 <V453000> just cause it is missing the non-stop which can be swapped 13:57:31 <V453000> but if it changes to something different, who knows 13:58:06 <V453000> if you want an opposite then it would have to be something obvious, like do-stop ... or similarly 13:58:15 <V453000> but "local" really doesnt hit it to me 13:58:17 <planetmaker> ^^ 13:58:27 <Eddi|nichZuHause> how about appending "(with/without intermediate stop)"? (except that it is too long) 13:58:46 <V453000> I would just keep it as it is, it is short and quite obvious what it does 13:59:01 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-73-6.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 13:59:24 <V453000> and as I suggested someday earlier, perhaps make non-stop orders coloured differently than stop orders. That would make the difference even better visible 13:59:45 <Rhamphoryncus> I could make the "as local" part bright red ;) 13:59:57 <Rhamphoryncus> Add a tooltip 14:00:02 <Rhamphoryncus> flashing lights 14:00:16 <Rhamphoryncus> Maybe a URL to some definitions and real life examples 14:00:22 <V453000> with stops perhaps? 14:00:27 <V453000> just totally not "local" 14:01:06 <V453000> non-stop x with stops 14:02:19 <Rhamphoryncus> Local Train â A train with an assigned crew that works between pre-designated points normally providing picking up or dropping off railcars to the railroad customer base within the area. 14:02:46 <V453000> why not "with stops" ? 14:02:59 <V453000> dont tell me you dont see that it is much more obviously the opposite of non-stop 14:03:12 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-250-79.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:03:36 <Rhamphoryncus> I don't. The opposite even. 14:03:51 <Rhamphoryncus> I'm specifying stops. How could one be "with stops"? 14:04:07 <planetmaker> that's why eddi suggested "with intermediate stops" 14:04:23 <planetmaker> and you're not specifying "stops" but "destinations" 14:04:23 <Rhamphoryncus> Every route has a specified list of stops. There's no such things as implicit ones. 14:04:33 <V453000> "Go with stops to X?" "Go non-stop to Y?" 14:04:35 <planetmaker> Stops is actually the difference, that there can be intermediate ones 14:04:52 <V453000> intermediate feels long :) 14:04:58 <planetmaker> yes, it does 14:05:09 <Rhamphoryncus> 4. local 14:05:09 <Rhamphoryncus> stopping at most or all stations: 14:05:09 <Rhamphoryncus> a local train. 14:05:29 <V453000> I dont think we care about the dictionary explanation of local ... it just isnt obvious 14:05:36 <planetmaker> ^^ 14:05:39 <Mazur> "all stops" 14:05:50 <Mazur> "with all stops" 14:06:06 <Mazur> Just tasting the terms. 14:06:17 <Rhamphoryncus> How about "Go, while stopping at every intermediate station it passes through, to X"? ;) 14:06:25 <planetmaker> and for the intermediate stops, that's what you have the "automatic orders" for 14:06:44 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus, exactly. And that's why the current naming goto non-stop is MUCH shorter 14:06:46 <planetmaker> And MUCH clearer 14:07:02 <planetmaker> "don't fix it, if it ayn't broke" 14:07:22 <Rhamphoryncus> I disagree with both clarity and brokenness 14:07:53 <planetmaker> have fun. Would be a pity, if you litter your patches with unnecessary changes which are both unwanted and counterproductive :-) 14:08:27 <Rhamphoryncus> They're not, but there's no point arguing it anymore :P 14:08:32 <V453000> I can agree with the point that it would be good to add a name for "without nonstop orders". Simply because if you want to make them somehow coloured, these parts of orders would have to be the ones. But it has to be obvious opposite of non-stop, and it has to be short. 14:10:10 <planetmaker> btw, changing this naming is totally a separate patch on its own. No need to mix it with *anything* else 14:10:41 <Rhamphoryncus> planetmaker: It's closed related to the intent. The implementation may be separable. 14:10:57 <Rhamphoryncus> "This UI is cluttered and awkward. What can we do better?" 14:11:05 <planetmaker> whatever your intend: it needs no renaming ;-) 14:11:20 <planetmaker> and is quite a bit unrelated to the window layout itself 14:11:39 <planetmaker> even going by the screenshot you posted earlier 14:12:06 <Rhamphoryncus> Changing makes it a lot more practical to have a small window 14:12:10 <planetmaker> and always separate implementation where something can be separated :-) 14:12:22 <Rhamphoryncus> Otherwise it has to be 20-30 pixels wider 14:12:27 <planetmaker> omg 14:12:42 <planetmaker> that's a whole icon width wider 14:13:32 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-74-236-118.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 14:14:03 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-88-7.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:14:06 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 14:14:56 <Rhamphoryncus> Repeated on every single line, conveying no useful information to the user? They have to learn to look for the absence of it instead? 14:15:53 <Rhamphoryncus> 48 pixels actually 14:16:04 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-73-6.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:16:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AD14.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:17:30 *** pugi_ [~pugi@host-091-097-077-050.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 14:17:53 *** Fuco_ [dota.keys@server.dasnet.cz] has joined #openttd 14:17:59 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-077-050.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:17:59 *** Fuco [dota.keys@server.dasnet.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:00 *** pugi_ is now known as pugi 14:18:09 *** lobstar [~lobster@178.19.113.126] has joined #openttd 14:18:14 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:14 *** lobster [~lobster@178.19.113.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:14 *** joho^_^ [~joho@c-6f04e155.132-7-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:15 *** joho [~joho@c-6f04e155.132-7-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 14:18:23 <Rhamphoryncus> Oh, and for the record: I intend to make my window optional. The old windows will still be accessible if you turn it off, and use the old text. 14:18:26 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 14:18:48 *** eQualizer|dada [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-77-86-195-47.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 14:18:55 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> kilo.oftc.net quits: V453000, XeryusTC, tneo, s-vektori, Mazur, MNIM, @Yexo, __ln__, dotwaffle, eQualizer, (+2 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 14:20:11 *** mode/#openttd [+v Yexo] by ChanServ 14:20:11 *** Netsplit over, joins: Pixa, s-vektori, MNIM, XeryusTC, V453000, tneo, @Yexo, Mazur, dotwaffle, dfox (+1 more) 14:20:51 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-74-236-118.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 482 seconds] 14:24:13 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus, that's even worse. Two names for the same thing 14:24:42 <V453000> guess I just missed something due to the netsplit :D 14:24:55 <planetmaker> probably me, too. But... who knows :-) 14:24:56 <Rhamphoryncus> Right, like openttd is afraid of duplication :P 14:25:02 <planetmaker> though it was only one minute 14:25:04 <Rhamphoryncus> No, I didn't say anything else 14:25:48 <planetmaker> two orders windows with an adv. setting is... stupid. We already have too many adv. settings. And... what purpose would that setting serve? 14:26:34 <Rhamphoryncus> Silencing the naysayers. 14:26:57 <planetmaker> sorry. But an adv. setting for that: unacceptable IMHO 14:27:01 <Rhamphoryncus> Who are used to the old way. Just as local orders are now. 14:27:35 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.124.217.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:29:39 <V453000> why do you discuss stuff, you are absolutely stubborn on your stupid "local" anyway 14:29:48 <V453000> for no reason that I would see 14:30:18 <Rhamphoryncus> I feel exactly the same about you guys. Oblivious to the problems, too stubborn to accept any change. 14:30:50 <V453000> I say a change to something obvious is good as a word for that type of orders would be useful 14:30:58 <V453000> like with stops 14:31:17 <V453000> your asnwer: no, local. 14:31:40 <V453000> while (at least verbally) with stops is definitely a more obvious opposite to non-stop 14:32:23 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-159-169.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 14:32:53 <Rhamphoryncus> To which I provided examples of why locals is better. 14:33:11 <Rhamphoryncus> And it's not like you've said a single positive thing about my work 14:34:10 <V453000> that werent examples, that was dictionary explanation of "local". Local can also be distance-saying ... like local train - short distance train --- nothing about stops there. 14:34:13 <Rhamphoryncus> And the suggestions here have been to say something for BOTH local and non-stop 14:34:25 <V453000> and I just entered the discussion, and I havent seen any of your works 14:34:49 <nilsi> what would be the preferred way to get a "get good ratings" cheat option ? 14:34:59 <planetmaker> this discussion was about renaming how orders are called. Not any of your work. I didn't even look at it 14:35:09 <nilsi> I am a sandbox Player and bribing doens't cut it 14:35:12 <planetmaker> nilsi, write a NewGRF 14:35:21 <planetmaker> but there's no cheat for it 14:35:22 <V453000> FIRS can cheat that 14:35:26 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, the dictionary definition seems a little out of context, that's because there's no such thing as a real bus or train that stops at whatever stations it randomly hits. They always have an explicit list of stations. They just list the most important ones as.. the most important. 14:36:01 <V453000> how is related real bus or train? 14:36:01 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus, exactly. We have automatic orders. And manual orders (the important ones) 14:36:16 <Rhamphoryncus> V453000: terminology is derived from real world uses. 14:36:24 <V453000> it makes no sense here in the game 14:36:26 <nilsi> I am talking about being allowed to build stations with bad town ratings 14:36:27 <planetmaker> this is a game 14:36:30 <V453000> just like "local" says nothing 14:36:32 <planetmaker> and things need be clear 14:36:35 <nilsi> can grfs really do that ? 14:36:44 <planetmaker> nilsi, there's no cheat 14:36:50 <nilsi> i know 14:36:52 <planetmaker> all you can do is wait. Or bribe the town 14:36:53 <V453000> a "with stops" train must stop in all stations it meets. Which it does 14:36:58 <planetmaker> or build trees to make them happy 14:37:36 <Rhamphoryncus> V453000: Your expectations of the terminology are intrenched in a decade of TTD doing it that way. They're quite different from what anybody new to the game would expect. 14:37:39 <V453000> while ... "local" doesnt stop in all stations, therefore this real life example is not fitting? 14:37:50 <nilsi> i have been implementing an openstreetmap interface during the last weeks, i know it is not yet there 14:38:28 <Rhamphoryncus> A local bus stops at all stops along its route. Most buses are local, so it's assumed. 14:38:28 <V453000> but you just said it. Local does not stop in all stations in real life. Which is not what this order does 14:38:53 <Rhamphoryncus> It's only weird because "automatic" is weird 14:39:12 <Rhamphoryncus> Hrm. "stopping automatically"? 14:39:34 <nilsi> "stopping everywhere" 14:39:37 <V453000> if you send out a bus with "with stops" order, it will stop everywhere it meets 14:41:45 <planetmaker> nilsi, an OSM interface? Like reading-in maps? 14:42:02 <nilsi> yes exactly 14:42:14 <planetmaker> interesting 14:42:47 <nilsi> however it is quite traffic intensive 14:43:16 <nilsi> and there seems to be a problem in town founding speed 14:43:43 <nilsi> took me 6 hours to render Saxony with 3500 towns 14:44:15 <nilsi> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12824307/GIS_feb2012.pdf 14:44:22 <nilsi> is our presentation 14:44:45 <nilsi> yesterday i added rendering of farmland :-) 14:44:50 <planetmaker> nilsi, you cannot place towns arbitrarily close 14:45:15 <planetmaker> and obviously also not on every tile (like water). Not sure about slopes 14:45:31 <nilsi> slopes are not yet supportet 14:47:15 <planetmaker> I think the reason therein lies in the fact that the centre tile has to be road and it should allow much connectivity (like a 4-way junction) 14:47:26 <planetmaker> which is not feasible on a sloped tile 14:47:42 <peter1138> heh, cute 14:48:24 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm35.epsilon82.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 14:48:54 <Pikka> oh no 14:49:41 <peter1138> SCUDDLES 14:49:52 <Scuddles> wrong channel damn it 14:49:57 <Scuddles> also orudge is a bum 14:50:06 <Pikka> no it isn't the wrong channel 14:50:12 <Pikka> no-one uses #tycoon any more 14:50:18 <Scuddles> why are you right 14:51:11 <Scuddles> peter1138 where are diagonal stations and fancy ottd features 14:51:13 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 14:51:18 <Scuddles> danmack is a 14:51:22 <Pikka> what have you done 14:51:32 <Scuddles> a bunch of graphics 14:51:35 <V453000> diagonal stations :d 14:51:41 <Scuddles> that tablecat fellow drew something silly again it seems 14:53:40 <Scuddles> pruplethingz is a butt 14:53:53 <Pikka> that tablecat fellow draws the strangest things 14:55:51 <orudge> zomg Scuddles 14:55:51 <planetmaker> oh noes, a DanMacK ! 14:55:53 <orudge> zomg PierreW 14:55:58 <orudge> and everybody uses #tycoon, silly Pikka 14:56:04 <orudge> and bah, zomg Pikka is what I meant, not PierreW 14:56:09 <orudge> also zomg DanMacK 14:56:17 <Pikka> I don't even know who PierreW is 14:56:25 <orudge> well you should 14:56:35 <__ln__> @seen PierreW 14:56:35 <DorpsGek> __ln__: PierreW was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 33 weeks, 4 days, 2 hours, 52 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: <PierreW> sad that i can't code the language, in whatever openttd is built in 14:56:36 <planetmaker> obviously a person with 3 unnecessary highlights in the last 120 seconds ;-) 14:56:40 <planetmaker> or four 14:56:41 <__ln__> oh, he has spoken 14:56:49 <__ln__> not too recently though 14:59:04 <Pikka> so 14:59:08 <Pikka> now we're all here 14:59:15 <Pikka> why won't my grf upload to bananas? 14:59:17 <Scuddles> execpt danmack 14:59:38 <Scuddles> excerpt 14:59:45 <Pikka> remove 15:00:12 <Scuddles> I saw a truck while on a bus to work recently 15:00:23 <Scuddles> it was a house moving company with a name in chinese 15:00:34 <Scuddles> and written below it was "House Removal" 15:02:11 <Scuddles> Oh this seems to be an actual term though 15:03:11 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 15:04:06 * DanMacK forgot Snail was now on this side of the pond 15:04:07 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06:08 <Pikka> well, do they move the house or just the things in the house, Scuddles? 15:06:21 <Scuddles> Things in house 15:06:25 <Eddi|nichZuHause> hm... what's the linux equivalent of "keyb gr"? 15:08:42 <planetmaker> Pikka, which NewGRF was that? 15:08:56 <planetmaker> I've seen that mistake recently too often :S 15:09:02 <Pikka> ukrs2 15:09:18 <Pikka> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=45637&p=997723#p997723 15:09:32 <Pikka> andy tried uploading it for me too, didn't work 15:10:46 <planetmaker> But Rubidium did some magic to the NewGRF entries in bananas which refused to accept updates so that uploading worked again... it might need doing for the UKRS2 entry as well. 15:18:12 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sirius.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:18:22 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I could as well have broken it completely ;) 15:18:41 <planetmaker> it worked for both other guys 15:18:50 <Rubidium> seemed to work! 15:19:00 <planetmaker> well, the newgrfs are now available ;-) 15:19:16 <planetmaker> but yes 15:23:17 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:25:31 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-077-050.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 15:27:06 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-077-050.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 15:29:28 <Eddi|nichZuHause> i guess i should get a more modern knoppix than 2006... 15:33:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:37:42 <Pikka> hello andythenorth 15:37:45 <Pikka> goodnight gentlemen 15:37:45 <DanMacK> Hey Andy 15:37:50 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d114-78-20-54.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 15:37:51 <DanMacK> Night 15:38:04 <andythenorth> one in, one out 15:38:12 <andythenorth> did you talk about buses yet? 15:38:17 <DanMacK> not yet 15:38:21 <andythenorth> or extra-long trains? :) 15:38:29 <DanMacK> too busy discussing the UKRS :P 15:38:34 <DanMacK> and me updating my sprites 15:38:51 * DanMacK just uploaded an 0-3-0 to Pikka's tracking table 15:39:04 <Scuddles> wat 15:39:21 <andythenorth> DanMacK: if you ever get bored of the trains.... 15:39:48 <andythenorth> I can already hack around the cabover you've drawn 15:39:55 <DanMacK> Oh I know :P 15:39:58 <andythenorth> but a conventional would be really useful too... :) 15:40:09 <DanMacK> it would be, yes 15:40:25 * DanMacK senses Scuddles is confused 15:40:28 <andythenorth> I *might* get around to drawing it myself, but I prefer your style 15:40:36 <DanMacK> thanks, I'll see what I can do 15:40:37 <andythenorth> and I'm having too much fun writing generator code 15:40:42 <DanMacK> heh 15:40:45 <Scuddles> not at all I just googled cabover 15:40:54 <Scuddles> so why aren't there cabunders 15:40:54 <DanMacK> ahhh 15:40:59 <andythenorth> Scuddles: there are 15:41:10 <andythenorth> I can't remember the name of the damn thing, but it was a german prototype 15:41:10 <DanMacK> I thought you were wondering about the 0-3-0 :P 15:41:13 <Scuddles> though I am confused by 0-3-0 15:41:22 <DanMacK> check the tracking table ;) 15:41:46 <Scuddles> ridiculous 15:41:50 <DanMacK> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0-3-0 15:41:51 <Scuddles> is this for ukrs 15:42:01 <DanMacK> possibly 15:42:07 <andythenorth> haha 15:42:12 <Scuddles> I didn't see it for a while and thought it got cancelled 15:42:19 <DanMacK> or a separate add-on, but Pikka said I should throw them on there 15:42:26 <DanMacK> No, just got sidetrackes 15:42:38 <Scuddles> evidently to confuse players 15:42:47 <DanMacK> heh 15:43:00 <DanMacK> I uploaded the track sprites too 15:43:24 <Scuddles> how do the junctions work 15:43:43 <DanMacK> well, TTD limits would just have them standard 15:43:54 <Scuddles> oh my this is one wide loco 15:44:30 * DanMacK should get his lunch assembled 15:45:17 <Scuddles> what is this I don't even 15:45:19 <Scuddles> coffeepot 15:45:42 <DanMacK> builders/demonstration loco 15:45:58 <Scuddles> I can't really see what it's made out of and it's making my eye hurt 15:46:15 <andythenorth> DanMacK: if you ever get to it...http://hg.openttdcoop.org/bandit/raw-file/57f1da81e690/graphics_sources/BANDIT_types_NA.png 15:46:24 <andythenorth> I worked out the dimensions for bonnets, sleeper boxes etc 15:46:30 <andythenorth> it's a 4px grid 15:46:54 <andythenorth> also a day-cab cabover 15:46:58 * DanMacK can work with that 15:47:15 <Scuddles> blue and white colour scheme sure looks like DOS and such 15:47:38 <andythenorth> as long as the bumper-back-of-cab (BBC) is a multiple of 4px in the - view it will work 15:48:03 <andythenorth> so we can do oddballs like this too http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix//trucks/tim_gibson/mar2003/rr_readymix.jpg 15:48:18 <DanMacK> http://wbf-kk.de/Bilder/Lartigue.html 15:48:26 <DanMacK> The coffeepot's the last loco 15:48:39 <andythenorth> GMC crackerbox - michigan train http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix//trucks/tim_gibson/andersen1.jpg 15:49:35 <DanMacK> nice 15:49:40 <andythenorth> bigger crackerbox with tanks http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix//trucks/tim_gibson/sept2002/a_and_c4.jpg 15:50:22 <DanMacK> http://www.autos.ca/classic-cars/motoring-memories-the-labatt-streamliners-1937-1947 <== Labatt Streamliner 15:50:33 <Mazur> Ha, first time I see openttd+replacement data files in a fedora repository. Have they been there long, now? 15:51:24 <andythenorth> DanMacK: clearly room for that in the set ;) 15:51:34 <andythenorth> I am sorely lacking on variety 15:51:47 <andythenorth> I have *lots* of trucks (maybe too many), but not a lot of interest 15:51:58 <andythenorth> you might say the interest:trucks ratio is a bit low 15:52:12 <Scuddles> these are the fanciest tank locos I've seen this year 15:52:47 <andythenorth> DanMacK: don't think I can generate the streamliner :) 15:52:54 <andythenorth> might have to settle for drawing ;) 15:55:14 *** Twofish [~Twofish@77-95-76-210.bb.cust.hknett.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:59:54 <andythenorth> hmm 16:00:08 * andythenorth can see the appeal of 32bpp :( 16:00:25 <andythenorth> I don't have enough spare life to redraw everything though 16:00:41 <Rubidium> andythenorth: just create more helpers ;) 16:00:55 <andythenorth> if only 16:01:21 <andythenorth> I'd probably create them to 2x zoom, as that's the most appealing size to me 16:01:52 <andythenorth> I could do a batch scale in photoshop or PIL, then paint the gaps 16:02:32 <andythenorth> but...then what does 1x zoom look like? 16:04:43 <DanMacK> lol 16:04:54 * DanMacK is heading out 16:05:02 <DanMacK> I'll see what I can do about the trucks 16:05:08 <DanMacK> Laters 16:05:11 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 16:06:26 *** nilsi [~merman@p57B60E76.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #openttd [] 16:38:23 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:23 *** APTX_ [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 16:38:47 *** Doorslammer [7da861ac@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:47:51 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:04:22 *** Doorslammer [7da861ac@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 17:16:58 *** FHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:20:47 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.124.217.99] has joined #openttd 17:24:25 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 17:33:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.168.243] has joined #openttd 17:33:50 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:40 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:35:37 *** macee [~macee@54005F98.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 17:40:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.183.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:42:32 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:42:36 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:45:42 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:46:26 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:49:54 *** kkb110__ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:54:47 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:57:54 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 18:00:44 <Eddi|nichZuHause> hm... it's near impossible to move windows to another disk... 18:01:50 <Eddi|nichZuHause> i successfully moved all files, and got it to boot from the new disk, but *somewhere* it takes files from the old disk, and hangs during boot if the old disk is not present 18:02:12 <blathijs> Eddi|nichZuHause: Did you try dd'ing the full filesystem instead of moving individual files? 18:02:21 <Rubidium> maybe it refers to the disk by its uuid? 18:02:39 <blathijs> s/try/consider/ 18:02:40 <planetmaker> Eddi|nichZuHause, dd works nicely for windows HDDs 18:03:32 <FHerne> dd worked for me (XP) 18:03:54 <planetmaker> yeah, that's where I tested it, too :-) 18:04:54 <FHerne> Not sure why I bothered really, I dropped Windows a few weeks later anyway... 18:05:10 <FHerne> forward planning is overrated :P 18:05:54 <glx> Eddi|nichZuHause: you updated BCD too ? 18:06:11 <planetmaker> well. I needed it to get identical copies of flight hardware to have a working spare. Just in case 18:07:03 *** APTX_ [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:07:05 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 18:08:06 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:12:43 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:15:16 <Eddi|nichZuHause> glx: what's BCD? 18:15:30 <glx> the boot system 18:16:58 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-132-172.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:17:45 <Chris_Booth> is there a limit howmany refit options a wagon has? 18:18:30 <Chris_Booth> for example could I make a superwagon that could refit to any cargo? 18:20:14 *** _maddy [~plaiho@182.21.240.77.static.louhi.net] has joined #openttd 18:23:57 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-218-73.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 18:27:29 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 18:28:03 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm35.epsilon82.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [] 18:29:12 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-88-7.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:29:26 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:30:24 <Eddi|nichZuHause> glx: yes, i fixed the boot system 18:30:33 <Eddi|nichZuHause> it hangs somewhere later, during the "welcome" screen 18:31:31 <Eddi|nichZuHause> if i have the old disk attached (as second disk according to the bios) then it boots from the new disk, but puts it as D: and takes some things from C: 18:32:03 <Eddi|nichZuHause> like the personal directory is what i can immediately see, but may as well be things deeper inside the OS 18:37:26 *** morph_ [~4e547932@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 18:38:00 <morph_> Hello, I am trying to add some NewGrf to a dedicated OpenTTD server 18:38:20 <morph_> What folder do I copy the .tar NewGrf file in? (Ubuntu 11.04 server) 18:38:44 <morph_> I tried in my /.openttd/content_download and /openttd/data folders, did not work 18:40:36 <morph_> Anyone? 18:42:17 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0081bf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:42:25 <FHerne> .tar NewGRF? 18:43:06 <Yexo> morph_: define "did not work" please 18:43:16 <Yexo> how do you reference that newgrf in your config file for example? 18:43:46 <morph_> ini: ignoring invalid NewGRF '2cc_trainset-2.0.0beta5cctrainset.grf': not found 18:44:01 <morph_> 2cc_trainset-2.0.0beta5cctrainset.grf = 2 2 0 18:44:10 <morph_> Under set [newgrf] 18:44:14 <morph_> In config file 18:44:38 <morph_> 1) Do I need to copy the NewGrf.TAR file ? 18:44:54 <morph_> Cause it seems kinda weird to reference a .grf yet there's just a .tar file 18:45:09 <Yexo> a tar file is a bundle that can have multiple files inside it 18:45:14 <Yexo> amongst others a grf 18:45:24 <morph_> Ok, I can unpack the tar 18:45:34 <Yexo> you don't have to 18:45:39 <morph_> Where do I put the Directory "2cc_trainset-2.0.0beta5" 18:45:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23998 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 18:45:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: basque - 106 changes by HerrBasque 18:45:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_AU - 9 changes by tomas4g 18:45:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 17 changes by OliTTD 18:45:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by NG 18:45:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: greek - 25 changes by kyrm 18:46:08 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:46:11 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:46:19 <Yexo> depending on the OS of the server you might need to use a / instead of a \ 18:46:29 <morph_> Ok, will try, sec 18:46:31 <Alberth> moin 18:47:02 <andythenorth> bah 18:47:05 <andythenorth> no battery 18:47:17 <andythenorth> biab 18:47:17 <andythenorth> :( 18:47:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:47:56 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@31.102.248.117] has joined #openttd 18:48:26 <morph_> Yexo - no error message this time, will check server 18:48:48 *** andythen_ [~andytheno@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:48:57 <andythen_> Meh 18:49:03 <andythen_> Phone irc 18:49:23 <morph_> Damn, very nice, thanks alot Yexo. Didn't think it'd be this easy 18:49:26 <morph_> :) 18:49:56 * andythen_ wonders what a good iphone irc client is 18:53:53 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 18:55:24 <Alberth> you seem a bit shortened andy :) 18:55:56 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@31.102.248.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:58:22 <morph_> Any ideas how to change monorail/maglev appearance date for a server ? 18:58:42 <morph_> Im starting game at 1977 and building monorail track is already active 18:59:42 *** _maddy [~plaiho@182.21.240.77.static.louhi.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:59:53 <|Jeroen|> 1977 is correct if you check wikipedia 18:59:56 <Rhamphoryncus> You're using a newgrf 18:59:56 <Yexo> disable any newgrfs you have with monorail/magleve vehicles 19:03:27 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:06:12 *** andythen_ [~andytheno@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13:09 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-162-105.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:13:49 <morph_> OK, this will be painful - adding AP+ to the server... 19:14:00 *** kkb110__ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:14:17 <Belugas> hello 19:14:21 <morph_> Hi 19:14:46 <Alberth> hello Belugas, no more 'the second' any more ? 19:14:54 <Belugas> lol 19:14:59 * Alberth liked the title :) 19:15:14 <Belugas> nope, connection was smooth, so i did not had to clone myself! 19:15:43 <Alberth> good to hear you are fully back to a single self :) 19:24:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:26:03 <Alberth> andy, you figured out how to do the sequence collection? 19:26:25 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has joined #openttd 19:27:17 <andythenorth> phone irc - not great :( 19:27:23 * andythenorth is now back on real computers 19:27:33 <andythenorth> Alberth: I figured out how to do that yes 19:27:40 <andythenorth> you gave me everything I needed ;) 19:27:43 <Alberth> useful for reading, perhaps :) 19:27:46 <andythenorth> I haven't coded it yet though 19:28:12 <andythenorth> pending baby interruptions I'll start now 19:28:20 <andythenorth> although I have to send baby photos to my mum first :P 19:28:35 <andythenorth> (even andythenorth has a mum) 19:28:38 <Alberth> that's important :) 19:34:28 <andythenorth> bah 19:34:46 <andythenorth> I think my mac has scribbled all over it's memory when it ran out of battery :P 19:34:54 <andythenorth> restarts are boring 19:36:42 <Alberth> good night, and good luck programming 19:37:03 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:37:05 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has joined #openttd 19:39:46 <andythenorth> stupid mac 19:39:50 <andythenorth> :) 19:40:25 <andythenorth> 95% idle, 4G free, taking 10mins to close programs so I can restart :P 19:43:19 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:43:46 <FHerne> At least your desktop environment doesn't segfault every few minuter 19:44:01 <FHerne> KDE4 still isn't the most stable 19:45:40 <andythenorth> sudo shutdown -h now methinks 19:45:54 <andythenorth> don't copy that to *your* shell without knowing why ;) 19:46:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 19:46:52 <FHerne> Don't you need a -P on the end of that? 19:47:02 <FHerne> or are Macs different? 19:48:43 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@23.Red-88-11-191.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 19:48:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:50:02 <Rubidium> andythenorth: just pull the plug and battery. That's the only way I've seen a Mac turn off reliably 19:50:37 <andythenorth> battery access means unscrewing 12 screws or so ;) 19:50:49 <andythenorth> I've never seen 'shutdown' fail :) 19:50:55 <andythenorth> un*x ftw 19:51:33 <Rubidium> andythenorth: well, I've seen a mac fail to turn off (it did hang quite well), not even by pressing the on/off button for a long time 19:52:09 <Rubidium> but that's back in the days 19:52:33 <Rubidium> it was after Lisa though ;) 19:52:55 * andythenorth also experienced the crazy world of classic mac os 19:53:09 <andythenorth> where it was common to install an auto-save helper app 19:53:19 <andythenorth> and a crash every 25mins or so was standard 20:03:00 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:06:01 <peter1138> memory protection? what's that? 20:07:29 <andythenorth> hmm 20:07:30 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=997794#p997794 20:07:40 <andythenorth> he's reporting an identical issue to the one I had earlier today 20:07:56 <andythenorth> I solved it by upgrading to ottd tip 20:19:29 <Eddi|nichZuHause> mÀh, copying is the most boring task you can do, without having your usual distraction tools with you... 20:21:24 <Eddi|nichZuHause> @calc 40*1024/6.6/3600 20:21:24 <DorpsGek> Eddi|nichZuHause: 1.72390572391 20:21:42 <Eddi|nichZuHause> @calc 40*1024/6.6/60-60 20:21:42 <DorpsGek> Eddi|nichZuHause: 43.4343434343 20:38:44 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:51:29 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 20:51:35 <DanMacK> Hey all 20:52:08 * DanMacK wonders if it's yet possible to show directional switch and crossing graphics... 20:53:43 * frosch123 wonders voting for the paused title game :p 20:53:49 <frosch123> *ponders 20:54:02 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 20:55:08 *** kkb110__ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 20:58:17 <frosch123> nicfer is a troll, isn't he? :p 20:58:41 <andythenorth> hola DanMacK 21:01:17 *** DorpsGek is now known as Guest4441 21:01:24 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has joined #openttd 21:01:27 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 21:02:02 *** Guest4441 [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:08 <DanMacK> Hey 21:04:22 <DanMacK> You know that one Andy? 21:04:47 <morph_> Im too stupid to figure out how to use dtach for dedicated server.. 21:10:52 *** TheMask96- [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 21:12:32 *** DorpsGek is now known as Guest4443 21:12:39 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has joined #openttd 21:12:42 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 21:13:10 *** Guest4443 [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:15:15 <andythenorth> DanMacK: sorry, no, don't know 21:15:21 *** kkb110__ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:15:28 <andythenorth> what exactly do you envisage? :) 21:17:50 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:19:27 <DanMacK> Switch tracks aligning as per train direction 21:19:33 <DanMacK> Would be handy for Monorails 21:22:37 *** DorpsGek is now known as Guest4445 21:22:44 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has joined #openttd 21:22:47 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 21:23:25 <andythenorth> ho 21:23:31 <andythenorth> that sounds quite...advanced ;) 21:23:35 <andythenorth> hmm 21:23:56 <andythenorth> if PBS is in use, that draws the routing overlay 21:24:02 <andythenorth> but only if PBS is in use 21:24:19 <andythenorth> suggests the route can be found though 21:24:25 *** Guest4445 [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:25:41 <andythenorth> I don't know if you'd need an extra tile bit to store this 21:25:56 <andythenorth> or more than one depending on how many junctions you have 21:38:46 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 21:40:32 *** kkb110__ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 21:40:42 <frosch123> \o/ 21:40:51 * frosch123 managed to vote 21:40:54 <morph_> Ok, I finally did it, made an OpenTTD Server \o/ 21:40:55 <morph_> Happy 21:41:04 <frosch123> i wanted to do it for like 3 weeks :o 21:41:25 <morph_> I will probably add some city-building etc. servers, too 21:41:48 <michi_cc> andythenorth: A train always reserves the track bits it is on, even in non-pbs sections, so I guess a NewGRF variable with the reserved track bits would be enough. 21:42:26 <andythenorth> and storing state of last direction? (not really needed tbh) 21:42:46 <andythenorth> could just display a default direction, and only use alternate when routing that direction 21:42:49 <frosch123> stations can access the pbs bit 21:42:55 <andythenorth> DanMacK: ^ 21:43:07 <frosch123> level crossings can as well (kind of) 21:43:08 <Eddi|nichZuHause> so who was the guy who was against variables for railtypes? :p 21:43:24 <frosch123> Eddi|nichZuHause: we already have some? 21:43:38 *** DorpsGek is now known as Guest4453 21:43:39 <frosch123> we were only against variables with non-constant complexity 21:43:45 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has joined #openttd 21:43:48 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 21:44:00 <Eddi|nichZuHause> i've been wanting the trackbits of the 4 adjacent tiles for ages 21:44:32 <michi_cc> I'd be very much against calculated variables, but if I look at the complexity of drawing a single piece of catenary, a few VarAct2's for per track tile don't look problematic. 21:44:46 <frosch123> sounds like hypercomplex if they are on different levels :) 21:45:09 <michi_cc> Calculated like some of the 60+x variables I mean. 21:45:28 *** macee [~macee@54005F98.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has left #openttd [] 21:45:40 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 21:45:55 <morph_> I dont get this - I turn off inflation in openttd.cfg file, when I turn server off, inflation's back on 21:45:59 <morph_> Anything I should know? 21:46:17 <michi_cc> OpenTTD writes the config on exit. 21:46:20 *** Guest4453 [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:46:26 <michi_cc> So exit first, then change value. 21:46:39 <morph_> I did. 21:46:40 <Eddi|nichZuHause> i rather meant 40+ variable bitstuffed to the 4 adjacent tiles 21:46:52 <Eddi|nichZuHause> no 60+ for arbitrary offsets 21:46:58 <planetmaker> morph_, if you load a savegame, then the value stored there is used 21:47:11 <morph_> I have stopped the server. If I change the value now, then turn server on and join, 5 blocks cost like 50k 21:47:12 <Eddi|nichZuHause> (although that might be "fun" for spanning multiple tiles with catenary 21:47:22 <morph_> I did not load a savegame :( 21:47:35 <Eddi|nichZuHause> but that should rather be something cached in the tile, like fences) 21:48:21 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: A couple tiles of look-ahead for signal allocation would make various constructs much easier and provide a way to know what direction a switch should be 21:48:48 <andythenorth> oops 21:48:53 * andythenorth did a silly in python 21:49:50 <michi_cc> A variable with adjacent track bits isn't a problem. The real question is how to layout the bits (e.g. absolute direction or relative to track) and if it would make sense to have some kind of flag to draw tiles at once and not piece by piece for junction tiles. 21:50:28 <michi_cc> Basically the variable should provide the info in such a way that the GRF needs as few extra calculations as possible. 21:51:28 *** Saria [5ae0e752@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:51:38 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: did you assign to str? :) 21:51:40 <michi_cc> Which in turn depends on how to best draw and group the track sprites. 21:51:52 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: more of a logical flow error ;) 21:52:11 <Rhamphoryncus> ah :) 21:52:44 <andythenorth> I got in a pickle (not a python pickle) trying to do things outside an object which are much easier if done in the object's scope 21:53:23 *** Saria [5ae0e752@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [] 21:53:36 <Rhamphoryncus> morph_: I recently discovered that certain combinations of vactrains and vactrain versions cause prices to jump. I don't suppose that's possible for you? 21:53:41 <Rhamphoryncus> err vactrain and nutracks 21:54:19 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:54:36 *** DorpsGek is now known as Guest4455 21:54:43 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has joined #openttd 21:54:46 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 21:55:16 *** Guest4455 [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:55:26 *** morph_ [~4e547932@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:55:41 <Eddi|nichZuHause> "draw junction at onces" might be too tedious to gather all the different sprites needed... 21:59:22 *** murr4y [~murray@kvikshaug.no] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 21:59:29 *** murr4y [murray@kvikshaug.no] has joined #openttd 22:02:19 *** murr4y [murray@kvikshaug.no] has quit [] 22:02:21 *** murr4y [murray@kvikshaug.no] has joined #openttd 22:07:41 <michi_cc> Drawing layered might not look very good though, due to too much overlap with the sleepers. 22:08:14 <Eddi|nichZuHause> need separate layers for the sleepers and the rail :) 22:09:28 <michi_cc> Composite them with a script into "junction at once" sprites. 22:09:55 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:10:00 <michi_cc> Maybe andy's Pixa can draw rails as well :) 22:10:13 <planetmaker> <morph_> Im too stupid to figure out how to use dtach for dedicated server.. <-- not sure it was answered: start a screen on the server and openttd within that screen. You can then safely close that xterm 22:10:30 <planetmaker> and regain control by reconnecting to that screen 22:14:11 <andythenorth> oops 22:14:19 <andythenorth> I copied a list to avoid writing into it 22:14:26 <andythenorth> but the list contains objects 22:14:26 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 22:14:39 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 22:14:44 <andythenorth> so modifying the contents of one list modifies the other :P 22:14:51 <andythenorth> took me a while to figure that out :P 22:16:27 <andythenorth> python is fun :) 22:16:36 <andythenorth> michi_cc: drawing rails is probably possible 22:16:40 <glx> planetmaker: dtach is a kind of screen IIRC 22:16:50 <andythenorth> not sure you'd gain much, because track is so simple 22:17:02 <michi_cc> Curved track isn't simple :) 22:17:18 <andythenorth> true 22:17:25 <andythenorth> you could teach it to draw the curves 22:17:54 <andythenorth> PIL's draw module probably has a chord option 22:18:30 <andythenorth> you could also teach it to draw pseudo-random ballast 22:18:33 <andythenorth> and sleepers 22:18:48 <andythenorth> I kind of need to code it first though :) 22:23:45 <Eddi|nichZuHause> andythenorth: make a deep copy? 22:24:00 <Eddi|nichZuHause> from copy import copy 22:24:30 * andythenorth looks 22:25:08 * andythenorth tries 22:25:14 <andythenorth> currently I'm doing: temp_points = [Point(i.dx, i.dy, i.colour) for i in self.points] 22:26:31 <andythenorth> deep copy ftw 22:26:34 <andythenorth> thanks 22:27:41 <planetmaker> glx, I assumed it's simply missing one letter and a bit funny grammar :-) I didn't recognize it as a programme name ;-) 22:35:27 <Eddi|nichZuHause> andythenorth: really, sometimes i think you picked up python last week :p 22:35:47 * andythenorth shrug :) 22:36:16 <andythenorth> you can get a long way with simple python 22:36:38 <andythenorth> mostly I code in a CMS which has (for security reasons) restricted python 22:36:52 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 22:39:39 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:41:07 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [] 22:43:45 *** APTX_ [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 22:45:12 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:43 <andythenorth> how interestink 22:48:50 <andythenorth> my Pixa code all works now 22:48:55 <andythenorth> and is much cleaner 22:49:03 <andythenorth> possibly even reusable by others :P 22:51:35 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d114-78-20-54.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 22:53:52 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@23.Red-88-11-191.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:56 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:02:10 *** Eddi|nichZuHause [~EddinichZ@46.115.18.185] has quit [] 23:12:19 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.124.217.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:14:28 <Rhamphoryncus> I think I'm a masochist. I started a FIRS game in 1830. 23:14:37 <Rhamphoryncus> (with NARS and EGRVTS) 23:15:22 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-162-105.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:19:55 <Pikka> I hope you have inflation turned off :) 23:21:34 *** FHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 23:21:40 *** Firartix [~artixds@159.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:26 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178199210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:24:00 * Rhamphoryncus whistles and goes and fixes something >.> 23:26:51 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:28:57 <Rhamphoryncus> oh. My poor Grasshopper was fine until it hit a hill. A single hill. 23:29:21 <frosch123> night 23:29:24 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0081bf.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:51 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-132-172.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 11.0/20120222074758]] 23:32:22 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178214205.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 23:36:24 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-105-49.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:52:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AD14.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:28 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-159-169.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit []