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00:02:31 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-63.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 00:08:23 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-4.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:12:26 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-122-215.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:13:37 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 00:14:47 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-158-57.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 00:20:12 *** grzes [be79ee98@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 00:21:52 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@60-241-89-135.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:22:06 *** grzes [be79ee98@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [] 00:34:44 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:07 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 00:53:57 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:54:02 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 00:54:28 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 01:02:05 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:21 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d083eab.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 01:15:13 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 01:35:03 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-63.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 01:38:42 *** Pinkbeast [damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk] has joined #openttd 01:58:49 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 02:01:13 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 02:03:52 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:14:35 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:15:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6CD13.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:32:23 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@60-241-89-135.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:33:21 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@60-241-89-135.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 02:34:08 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@60-241-89-135.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [] 02:40:01 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-74-170.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 03:15:05 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:25:21 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:5178:8126:b750:e291] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:55:28 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 04:08:08 *** arakasii [3ce20ec4@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 04:10:03 <arakasii> good morning. anyone have a moment to test my server connection. ive setup port forwarding but apparently it still shows offline when my brother tries to connect 04:10:30 <arakasii> wondering if its still something ive done or problem his end 04:14:24 *** arakasii [3ce20ec4@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 05:05:09 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-74-170.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:45:06 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-30-215.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 05:45:07 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 05:45:07 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-24-105.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:54:15 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B72C21.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:54:35 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7435C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:16:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:20:00 <Pikka> andy! 06:20:06 <Pikka> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=42562&p=1000815#p1000815 it works! :D 06:21:06 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-111-221.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:24:46 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-30-215.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:25:24 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:33:11 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has joined #openttd 06:33:29 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 06:36:56 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-74-170.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 06:56:13 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-74-170.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:57:10 *** jo2k [~Jonny@dslb-094-223-146-089.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:02:20 *** jo2k [~Jonny@dslb-094-223-146-089.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: jo2k] 07:09:28 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:16:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:20:55 *** Maarten_ [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 07:21:34 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:25:14 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:36:14 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 07:36:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:39:57 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 07:40:06 *** Twofish [~Twofish@77-95-76-210.bb.cust.hknett.no] has joined #openttd 07:40:06 *** Twofish [~Twofish@77-95-76-210.bb.cust.hknett.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:47:52 <andythenorth> Pikka: shiny 07:48:02 <Pikka> :] 07:51:43 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.192] has joined #openttd 07:52:02 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:55:33 <planetmaker> results look MUCH better, Pikka :-) 07:55:46 <planetmaker> as you're here, I can also ask here: how did you achieve the result? 07:56:48 <planetmaker> (did I ever mention that I like very much the transparent view of TAI for its great clarity?) 07:56:52 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-108-222.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:57:13 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:57:20 <planetmaker> no newgrf gives a better overview to a tycoon and help where to build new connections 07:57:23 <Pikka> planetmaker: it builds a house which it then immediately removes 07:57:29 <planetmaker> ok :-) 07:58:02 <Pikka> I had my doubts that it would work, but it seems to 07:58:30 <SpComb> Chris Sawyer needs to do a kickstarter pledge for TTD2.. 07:58:33 <SpComb> oh, no, wait.. 07:58:44 <andythenorth> :) 07:58:47 <planetmaker> how do you unbuild it? 07:59:03 <planetmaker> technically speaking? 07:59:05 <Pikka> callback 21 08:00:05 <Pikka> it's not a /perfect/ solution, because there's a chance you could bump into one of the non-houses (which for TaI will look like rough ground sprites) while building, for the <256 ticks of the house's existence. but it's unlikely to happen often in practice. 08:00:07 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 08:00:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7435C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:31 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7435C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:02:00 <planetmaker> yeah. You could use a special ground sprite for it though which features some <whatever>... maybe some advertisement or so 08:02:23 <planetmaker> thus the kind of transitional things which appear in outskirts sometimes 08:02:34 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:02:41 <Pikka> possibly, although I think drawing attention to them might just make things more confusing for players. 08:03:23 <planetmaker> maybe. 256 ticks is just short of 4 days... 08:03:24 <Pikka> I'll see how things go once I get it into the set and people can play with it. 08:03:31 <planetmaker> ^^ 08:03:35 <Pikka> yeah 08:03:49 <Pikka> but that's the maximum period they'll live for, I think. It can be shorter. 08:04:02 <planetmaker> that's how I understand it, yes 08:07:13 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 08:09:46 <planetmaker> Now all it needs is a prominent warning in the readme "Do not use this NewGRF with town growth scripts" so that we all can say "rtfm you dork!" :-P 08:10:00 <Pikka> lol 08:10:12 <Pikka> well, I don't know how much a town growth script would hurt 08:10:45 <Pikka> plenty of people use it at the same time as other house newgrfs, which totally defeats the growth limit thing. :P 08:10:49 <planetmaker> it would not hurt. But it'll be two things trying the same thing with different limits and conditions 08:11:09 <planetmaker> thus people will complain that the script doesn't work as intended 08:11:27 <Pikka> true 08:11:31 <planetmaker> reports you most likely won't get but the script writer 08:11:35 <Pikka> although is anyone ever going to make such a script? :) 08:11:47 <planetmaker> they do exist already. More than one. On bananas 08:12:10 <Pikka> hmm 08:12:12 <planetmaker> basically 75% of the game scripts are town growth scripts so far 08:12:20 <Pikka> speaking of bananas, it would be good if I could update my grfs :) 08:12:31 <planetmaker> did you try again? 08:12:40 <Pikka> yep, today 08:12:51 <planetmaker> with what error? 08:13:14 <Pikka> same as last time, unknown error uploading or something along those lines. 08:13:23 *** PhoenixII [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 08:13:24 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:13 <planetmaker> can you send me one of the grfs you tried? I don't have time to look now. I have a suspicion that it's something with the bananans DB and I might look later or ask Rb 08:14:58 <planetmaker> but a more exact error would be helpful ;-) 08:15:44 <Pikka> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=45637&p=1000802#p1000802 08:16:39 <planetmaker> ok, thx. So that zip could go there in its entirety as posted there, yes? 08:16:44 <Pikka> yep 08:16:51 <Pikka> that is the zip I was trying to upload 08:17:11 <Pikka> btw, "required version" on bananas still only goes up to 1.1.3 :) 08:17:17 <planetmaker> true 08:17:22 <planetmaker> stupid ;-) 08:20:32 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm22.epsilon82.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 08:20:55 <Pikka> no scrubblecars 08:21:01 <Scuddles> pikka is a butt 08:21:17 <Pikka> go and play your bad game 08:40:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:59:59 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 09:07:24 *** welshdragon [~mark-oftc@welshdragon.zernebok.net] has joined #openttd 09:13:11 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:13:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:34:32 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-74-170.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:34:52 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-74-170.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:35:03 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120216100510]] 09:39:22 <dihedral> hello 09:47:15 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-39-179.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:47:18 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 09:48:41 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52:07 <Pikka> where's roadtypes, then? 09:52:29 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-111-221.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:54:48 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-74-170.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 10:00:26 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-52-214.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:03:36 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:06:29 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-39-179.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:07:24 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@75-141-134-16.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com] has joined #openttd 10:31:24 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178241062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:31:41 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-228-94.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:31:45 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 10:36:28 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-52-214.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:41:03 *** cypher [~Miranda@wced-245-219-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 11:00:53 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 11:06:18 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:15:38 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:16:17 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.7.78] has joined #openttd 11:22:07 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.7.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:24:49 *** cypher [~Miranda@wced-245-219-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 11:37:16 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-104-77.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:43:04 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-228-94.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:43:49 *** welshdragon [~mark-oftc@welshdragon.zernebok.net] has quit [Killed (NickServ (Too many failed password attempts.))] 11:44:18 *** welshdragon [~mark-oftc@welshdragon.zernebok.net] has joined #openttd 12:02:43 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@75-141-134-16.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com] has left #openttd [] 12:38:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CD13.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:51:10 *** evdvelde [~evdvelde@143.129.80.37] has joined #openttd 12:54:10 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-74-170.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:57:50 <evdvelde> hi all, question of the day :) 12:58:09 <evdvelde> i seem unable to fund buildings or build statues, any clues? 12:58:25 <Mark> not enough cash? 12:58:44 <Pikka> I believe you have to have a high enough rating in the town and/or the town needs to be a certain size before you get those options. 12:59:55 <evdvelde> ah ok thanks Pikka 13:00:14 <evdvelde> Mark: i have enough and see other options i cannot pay atm, but thanks too :) 13:03:37 <andythenorth> Pikka: did you find roadtypes anywhere? 13:03:50 <Pikka> nope :[ 13:04:00 <andythenorth> non moi aussi 13:04:24 <andythenorth> allemagne dix points 13:05:02 <Pikka> it's a little bit sad working on 19th century towns and industries, but not being able to do anything about those bitumen roads 13:05:19 <Pikka> atsa lotta points' 13:06:13 <Eddi|zuHause> by my experience, that almost never happens 13:06:18 <Eddi|zuHause> it's either 12 or no points 13:08:09 <andythenorth> http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=del+boy+french&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 13:08:21 <andythenorth> Pikka: how's your c++ ? :P 13:08:29 <andythenorth> I have a roadtypes repo :| 13:08:36 <Pikka> poor to average :P 13:08:48 <andythenorth> better than mine 13:09:19 <andythenorth> it's not just the C++, it's knowing the game structure 'and now you need to do xyz' 13:09:23 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> I have a roadtypes repo :| <-- how many steps is that above "i have a thread in the suggestions forum"? :p 13:09:31 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: 1.15 13:09:43 <andythenorth> I think I have a commit to flip map bits :P 13:10:25 <andythenorth> I could learn more, but then I become a slow (bad) game dev, instead of a reasonably quick (moderately adequate) newgrf dev 13:11:39 <Pikka> hmm 13:11:41 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/roadtypes/repository 13:11:52 <Pikka> are "roadtypes" and "tramtypes" two separate things? 13:12:01 <andythenorth> technically? or for the player? 13:12:08 <Pikka> technically 13:12:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: that was kinda undecided 13:12:24 <andythenorth> there are (iirc) three built-in roadtypes currently: road, tram, hway 13:12:50 <andythenorth> in a roadtypes spec, 'tram' is a subset of roadtypes 13:13:00 <andythenorth> it's a flag, and is drawn on top of any road surface 13:13:12 <Pikka> ok 13:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: there were two philosophies, one philosophy where a tile should have one road-like type, and one tram-like type, and one philosophy where they should be exchangable 13:13:20 <andythenorth> you only get two kinds of route per tile iirc 13:13:39 <Pikka> yep, tricky :) 13:14:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: and one (more or less strong) opinion that there should be 3 independent road types per tile (which raises a "not enough map bits" issue) 13:14:44 <andythenorth> fwiw, there was a lot of discussion, not entirely a lot of agreement, and the result I had was this: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1221/ 13:15:16 <andythenorth> if you want 'road with tramway' that's a single type 13:16:38 <Pikka> hmm 13:16:52 <Pikka> that's probably actually a better way to do it 13:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but then you need crossings between "road with tram" and "road without tram" 13:17:31 <andythenorth> I didn't say it was good 13:17:36 <Eddi|zuHause> so essentially you get the same problems, but you wasted one roadtype 13:17:49 * andythenorth shrug :) 13:17:58 <andythenorth> the alternatives weren't better 13:18:04 <andythenorth> extend the map array? 13:19:49 <Eddi|zuHause> entirely unrelated: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249TzXFgBss 13:20:30 <andythenorth> Pikka: v0.2.0 \o/ 13:20:41 <andythenorth> cement tank? 13:20:41 <andythenorth> :) 13:21:04 <Pikka> haven't put in anything that wasn't already coded yet. but sure, I can get that in... 13:21:23 <andythenorth> hmm 13:21:37 <andythenorth> what else did I do? 13:21:42 * andythenorth has no brain 13:21:47 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ukrs2-addons/repository/show/exports 13:21:49 <Pikka> if you dropped the second roadtype, are there enough bits for each quadrant of the tile to have a different roadtype? :) 13:28:19 <Pikka> if the number of possible roadtypes is reduced to 15, then we could get away with replacing the "4 bits for type" and "4 road bits" with 4*4 bits for the road type in each quadrant of the tile (or 0/F for none). Or keep the "road bits" too and have 16 road types. 13:30:36 <Pikka> anyway, it's late and I should go to bed :) 13:34:17 <Rhamphoryncus> Track types are stored separately? 13:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: there is only one tracktype per tile 13:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka, andythenorth: the whole discussion might be meaningless, if michi_cc's map-layering stuff makes it to trunk 13:35:28 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, but's a related bit of data. Might be some good options. 13:35:48 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-74-170.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 13:36:27 <Rhamphoryncus> What's that? Google isn't telling me 13:36:30 <Eddi|zuHause> then each MP_ROAD "tile" would only have one roadtype, but you could layer multiple MP_ROAD "tiles" over each other 13:37:34 <Rhamphoryncus> Hum. Does that create a new layer on the map for each type loaded? Or is it for bridges/tunnels? 13:38:12 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-63.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:38:38 <Eddi|zuHause> it allows things like this http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/cool_stuff2.png 13:39:11 <Rhamphoryncus> oooh 13:39:50 <Eddi|zuHause> potentially also custom bridgeheads and signals on bridges, but it's way deeper fundamentals 13:40:10 * Rhamphoryncus nods 13:41:57 <Rhamphoryncus> If that covers both road and rail I wonder if it could be used for different traffic patterns too, ie curved tracks 13:42:27 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing to do with that 13:43:49 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:8d11:84a6:49e8:4318] has joined #openttd 13:43:52 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:43:56 <Rhamphoryncus> aww 13:47:59 <michi_cc> Rhamphoryncus: Curved tracks isn't complicated, you only have to deal with a mild combinatorial explosion :) 13:48:15 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, that's why I'm asking :) 13:49:00 <Rhamphoryncus> It's nothing magical. Just more of the same we already do 13:49:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and you have to draw them :p 13:49:27 <Rhamphoryncus> that too 13:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause> they don't even need map bits 13:49:51 <Rhamphoryncus> but on that note I'm volunteering to make a newgrf. It'll be hideous, but I'll make it. :) 13:49:55 <Eddi|zuHause> only some variables exposed to newgrf 13:50:03 <Rhamphoryncus> huh 13:51:26 <Rhamphoryncus> Hmm. If I actually put together a set of graphics would that help much in getting the code changed? 13:52:38 <michi_cc> Yes. 13:52:59 <planetmaker> <andythenorth> there are (iirc) three built-in roadtypes currently: road, tram, hway <-- there's no highway anymore 13:53:57 <Rhamphoryncus> No hard proposal on curve radiuses that I should conform to/argue with? 13:54:07 <michi_cc> The biggest problem for curved tracks is to decide on a good schema how to provide the track graphics. E.g. should all tracks on a tile be drawn as one sprite or composited like they are now? 13:54:19 <planetmaker> some visible work generally helps getting a good discussion started :-) 13:54:42 <michi_cc> Or is it easier for NewGRFs if the adjacent track bits are realtive to what is drawn or absolute. 13:54:48 * Rhamphoryncus nods 13:55:05 <Rhamphoryncus> What about diagonal roads? :) 13:55:08 * planetmaker prefers the combinatorical approach. For no good reasons 13:55:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: need movement pattern, entirely different issue. 13:55:20 <Rhamphoryncus> Or curved for that matter 13:55:31 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus, I have curves in my roads ;-) 13:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/rail_bits.txt <-- design documents about the rail images needed 13:56:22 <michi_cc> planetmaker: Personally I don't think that would look good because for a switch the sleepers of the top-drawn track might hide a lot of the bottom track. 13:56:47 <planetmaker> that's the problem with that approach. Or can be 13:56:55 <Eddi|zuHause> basically, you need 6 sprites per rail bit, "straight", "left curve" and "right curve", each in an "a" (from corner of tile to center) and "b" (from center to other corner of tile) variant 13:57:36 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: maybe sleepers and rail need to be split in two layers 13:57:46 <michi_cc> If you do whole tile at once you can avoide the overlap by doing fancy compositing on built time (where you can have more layers than just track and balast). 13:57:53 <Rhamphoryncus> I want multiple radiuses, so you can have both wide sweeping and tight 13:58:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: not feasible on a per-tile basis 13:58:52 <michi_cc> Rhamphoryncus: You get track bits of adjacent tiles, nothing more. 13:59:10 <Rhamphoryncus> Then we shall see what I can come up with *g* 13:59:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: important design constraint: in the center of the tile, all rail bits must be at the exact same position, to allow arbitrary combinations of "a" and "b" sections 14:00:33 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, alignment will be my first task 14:00:53 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 14:01:00 <Rhamphoryncus> I may not go with fully arbitrary. We'll see. 14:01:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: the combination would be done automatically. you only have to provide the sprites for the 6 half-bits 14:01:57 <Eddi|zuHause> for each of the 6 track directions 14:02:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so 36 sprites 14:03:47 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-25-211.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:03:51 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 14:04:14 <Rhamphoryncus> That sounds too easy and boring. I'm going for insane, pie-in-the-sky :) 14:04:33 <Rhamphoryncus> I never said they'd be GOOD sprites, so I need to do something meaningful, heh 14:05:01 <Eddi|zuHause> "meaningful" is "fits in our concept" 14:05:08 <Eddi|zuHause> everything else is basically useless 14:05:38 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Automatically for you means by OTTD or by some build process? I wouldn't like to do it in OTTD because it would directly limit what's possible. 14:05:52 <Rhamphoryncus> I did ask if there was a hard proposal 14:05:53 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: i meant the build process 14:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: and i did tell you my proposal 14:06:29 <Rhamphoryncus> If any suggestions I make will be ignored unless they fit exactly what you want then there's no point in me working on it 14:06:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: that's not what i said 14:07:31 <Rhamphoryncus> It sounds like your "curved" is just a graphical tweak over what we have now 14:07:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 14:07:53 <Rhamphoryncus> That's not what I'm interested in 14:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause> (imho) everything "bigger" will likely not be included, as it is a too large "step" 14:08:39 <michi_cc> Rhamphoryncus: The proposal by Eddi is based on what is possible to implement. "Real" arbitrary curved tracks means not only rewriting how rail is stored on the map but also rewriting all of the vehicle movement code. 14:08:42 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:08:47 <Eddi|zuHause> there is, however, another thing i have been proposing: "traffic objects" 14:08:47 <planetmaker> anything bigger has very quickly the issue of backward compatibility for train sets 14:09:19 <planetmaker> as it will look awkward without further viewing angles for vehicles 14:09:20 <Eddi|zuHause> which means it's like a NewObject (i.e. multi-tile), but has a state-machine (airport-like) 14:09:33 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-104-77.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:09:47 <Eddi|zuHause> thus you may lead a vehicle on arbitrary paths through this object 14:10:16 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's rather a "far future" thing 14:10:44 <Eddi|zuHause> as nobody has figured out yet how to generalize airport-like state machines for (articulated) vehicles 14:10:44 <Rhamphoryncus> Well, wait and see if I can come up with a decent alignment, alright? That's not too insane to store 14:13:02 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:14:48 <Rhamphoryncus> I'll code it 14:15:24 <Rhamphoryncus> And yes, not having enough rotation sprites for vehicles will be ugly, but IMO it's already ugly. Nothing will be lost. 14:15:35 <Eddi|zuHause> *hÃŒstel* 14:16:30 <Rhamphoryncus> If you actually look at how trains go around corners they do this odd jumpy thing 14:18:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/1990/Hawthorn___Co.__6._Okt_1922.png 14:19:43 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 14:20:06 <Rhamphoryncus> ooh 14:20:19 <Rhamphoryncus> So some work has already been done. Nice. 14:23:00 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0f467.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:25:09 <V453000> I think the way how cets does it looks great, but it is just so much more to draw than original :z 14:49:17 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-100-252.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:55:13 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-25-211.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:58:17 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-180-26.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:58:21 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 14:59:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:04:13 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-100-252.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:10:08 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: ...und tschÃŒÃ!] 15:10:56 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:11:55 *** SmatZ [~smatz@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:12:40 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 15:13:04 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 15:13:28 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 15:13:31 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 15:15:29 *** _maddy [~plaiho@182.21.240.77.static.louhi.net] has joined #openttd 15:15:59 *** SmatZ [~smatz@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 15:18:20 <NGC3982> how ..does that work without signals? 15:18:27 * NGC3982 i still new to the more advanced pbs. 15:21:11 *** cl8 [~cl8@host-92-3-253-43.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 15:22:29 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-130-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:28:07 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-180-26.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:31:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:38:02 *** _maddy [~plaiho@182.21.240.77.static.louhi.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:14:15 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-63.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:15:13 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-4.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:23:40 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:30:09 *** PhoenixII [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:30:11 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178241062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:39:47 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178193134.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 16:52:16 *** Doorslammer [7da861ac@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:52:47 *** Doorslammer [7da861ac@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [] 16:52:54 *** Doorslammer [7da861ac@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:54:48 * andythenorth ponders 16:55:19 <andythenorth> place a bet: disappearance of BROS forum....fuckup or flouncing drama? 16:55:23 <andythenorth> welshdragon? 16:55:27 <andythenorth> :) 16:55:59 <planetmaker> lol 16:56:37 <Doorslammer> Whatever it is, it's a bloody facepalm yet again 16:56:43 <planetmaker> and then they say that history doesn't repeat itself :-) 16:57:05 <Eddi|zuHause> who said that? :p 16:57:18 <planetmaker> I'm also sure one could make a good monty python sketch out of it meanwhile 16:57:52 <andythenorth> doorslammer...never work with brits. disorganised, crappy infrastructure, prone to infighting :P 16:59:04 <Doorslammer> Tell me about it 17:01:13 <Eddi|zuHause> so what now, they spend 90% of the time with discussing their forum, 10% of the time drawing, and 0% coding 17:04:12 <andythenorth> no, they spend 50% of their time responding to me baiting them :P 17:04:16 <andythenorth> I blame the tories personally 17:04:36 <planetmaker> red herring is a nice thing to do ;-) 17:04:55 <Doorslammer> Although the baiting isn't exactly... helpful, this has been an enormous waste of time for me 17:05:02 <planetmaker> or not. Depends on view 17:05:29 <planetmaker> (sorry, was no reply to DS) 17:08:04 <andythenorth> Doorslammer: is your work now lost in some broken forum? 17:08:08 <andythenorth> :| 17:09:18 <andythenorth> if so that's very disheartening 17:10:08 <Doorslammer> I have it still, but it's more of the fact that I still don't know if it's a) up to date and b) any good (still plenty of colour errors in it) 17:11:07 <andythenorth> the devzone no help? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bros 17:11:55 <Doorslammer> I never really followed it 17:12:18 <planetmaker> tt-forums and devzone are a bit more reliable than... seemingly the bros forum 17:13:07 <Doorslammer> What did Oberhumer or WWW use? 17:13:28 <planetmaker> oberhumer uses devzone 17:13:32 <planetmaker> www uses gibhub 17:17:02 <Doorslammer> Not that I even knew who we used half the time anyway 17:19:27 <planetmaker> "who we used" sounds.... like the real issue :-P 17:21:41 <Doorslammer> Well, I spend long periods of time on other projects and things, so something had to be neglected 17:23:51 <andythenorth> it was community managed, you never stood a chance ;) 17:24:36 <andythenorth> it's a synonym for no leadership, no direction 17:25:56 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:26:58 <andythenorth> there's also this http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/brosnyosis 17:27:48 <Doorslammer> Not authorised to access 17:28:10 <andythenorth> really :o 17:28:58 <andythenorth> oh yes 17:29:01 <andythenorth> how odd 17:29:24 <andythenorth> it's not public 17:29:41 <planetmaker> err, hm 17:30:10 <andythenorth> planetmaker: does devzone have a policy on private repos? 17:30:20 <andythenorth> repos / projects 17:30:22 <andythenorth> I'd vote for 'not allowed' 17:30:23 <planetmaker> yes: none 17:30:39 <andythenorth> Doorslammer: try again 17:30:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A049.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:30:45 <planetmaker> ^^ 17:30:52 <andythenorth> there's nothing there anyway, no repo 17:30:58 <andythenorth> only one issue 17:31:01 <andythenorth> it's probably dead 17:31:39 <planetmaker> I think that might be the reason... not remove. But 'hide'. As it never got any real content 17:31:55 <Doorslammer> Didn't even know about that 17:33:37 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6DFFD.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:35:53 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 17:40:10 <Doorslammer> The thing is, the first time this happened was because there was no GPL, no public access and just as much progress 17:40:16 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:40:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CD13.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:40:46 <Doorslammer> The difference now is the sprites are covered by GPL and that the project was more accessible 17:41:41 <Doorslammer> So... someone is in rather serious trouble for killing it 17:45:12 <andythenorth> assuming it's not just a billing failure 17:45:45 <Doorslammer> I was under the assumption it was a university site 17:45:55 <oskari89> Can someone code stations, non-track tiles? 17:46:07 <planetmaker> they can have issues at university computers, too, Doorslammer 17:46:26 <planetmaker> and... I could basically plug-in my own box here and do there whatever (as long as legal) 17:46:50 <oskari89> Finnish Stations Set needs one.. 17:46:52 <planetmaker> oskari89, 'yes'. someone surely can 17:47:21 <planetmaker> do you code it and have a specific question about it? 17:47:55 <oskari89> No, i'm not into coding but i have tracking table with sprites and information :P 17:48:03 <oskari89> http://users.tt-forums.net/finnish/friss.html 17:48:17 *** Devedse [~Devedse@d100059.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 17:48:26 <planetmaker> oskari89, post about it in the tt-forums 17:48:36 <planetmaker> in the newgrf development section or so 17:48:42 <oskari89> Posted already.. 17:49:00 <oskari89> Here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=43560&start=20 17:50:37 <oskari89> But so far, no-one hasn't replied about coding.. 17:51:45 <oskari89> Signals and rails have been coded, but no stations :P 17:53:25 <planetmaker> those who code stations need to venture into nfo land. And there an island which is special from other features. Thus not many people roam there 17:54:55 <oskari89> I see.. 17:56:39 <oskari89> Hmm, can looping sound be implemented on stations? 17:56:56 <planetmaker> looping as in repetitive? 17:57:07 <oskari89> Yes. 17:57:15 <oskari89> Non-stopping :P 17:57:15 <planetmaker> not directly. Sounds are called via callback on certain occasions 17:57:54 <oskari89> Ok. 17:59:09 <oskari89> It would be nice to have a stations taster, but so far very quiet on that... 18:04:10 <planetmaker> oskari89, the fastest way probably is: do it yourself 18:04:29 <planetmaker> with the ISR's code, there's plenty of example code present (provided you also release your set under the GPL) 18:05:33 *** evdvelde [~evdvelde@143.129.80.37] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:05:50 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:12:03 <oskari89> Hmm.. 18:12:52 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009137.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:35:36 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:37:30 *** Doorslammer [7da861ac@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 18:38:46 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@213.205.233.214] has joined #openttd 18:39:06 <oskari89> I've never coded anything, not even smallest things. 18:39:35 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 18:39:42 <oskari89> Just done some modifications at my own set's name, nothing more. 18:40:11 <oskari89> NFO isn't just my thing. 18:41:41 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:42:47 <oskari89> And the statement "Stations is the hardest thing to code as far as I know!" isn't very motivating. 18:43:24 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 18:44:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24028 /trunk/src/lang/ (hungarian.txt latvian.txt): 18:44:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:44:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 changes by Brumi 18:44:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 11 changes by Parastais 18:45:21 <frosch123> yup, not motivating, but maybe challenging :p 18:45:40 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:46:02 <frosch123> V453000: did you saw that 73129 requested a user name change to 47407 ? 18:46:20 <frosch123> maybe also an idea for you :p 18:48:53 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@213.205.233.214] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:49:53 <andythenorth> my two year old requests a patch: when drag-dynamiting land, explode animation shows on every tile, not just drag-box corners 18:51:47 <TWerkhoven[l]> checkerboard (-ish) could work too 18:52:19 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host81-154-194-79.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:53:53 *** Devedse_ [~Devedse@d100059.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 18:54:13 *** Devedse [~Devedse@d100059.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:55:17 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host81-154-194-79.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:40 <planetmaker> andythenorth, did you notice that explosion graphics differ if you explode one tile or more than one? 19:02:59 <xiong> No no no! It's fine as is. No explosion graphics would be even better. We don't want *more*. 19:04:22 <xiong> If you're dynamiting something it's likely because you want to build something else there. Balls of fire do not help with this; they do not dissipate while paused and take too long to go away when the game is running. 19:06:15 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has joined #openttd 19:17:53 <Rhamphoryncus> If build-while-paused in enabled they should dissipate, just like construction costs and income do. Patch it. :P 19:20:57 <V453000> frosch123: :D 19:23:52 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:23:59 <Terkhen> hello 19:25:56 <planetmaker> kyosuke1989 <-- oskari89 is that you? Then you could as well go initially for object tiles for those non-track station parts. It's easier as it can be done in NML 19:26:18 <oskari89> Yes that's me. 19:26:29 *** krinn [~krinn@183.210.73.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 19:26:43 <krinn> hi all 19:27:12 <oskari89> Is there some tutorial for nml object coding? 19:27:23 <krinn> i have a trouble with a vehicle that doesn't answer to AIEngine.IsArticulated and act like one, newgrf can also lie about articulated status ? 19:27:26 <oskari89> NML seems much more simpler than that NFO. 19:27:27 <frosch123> Rhamphoryncus: i think 1.2 even behaves likes that 19:27:49 <Yexo> <krinn> i have a trouble with a vehicle that doesn't answer to AIEngine.IsArticulated and act like one, newgrf can also lie about articulated status ? <- what do you mean exactly? 19:28:05 <Yexo> how does a vehicle "act like one"? 19:28:09 <Rhamphoryncus> Hrm. I'm not seeing any fireballs 19:28:12 <krinn> the engine answer false, but i cannot use it with "classic" station 19:28:23 <Yexo> oskari89: http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial 19:28:28 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, the fireballs show normally but aren't created when paused 19:28:28 <krinn> AIOrder always refuse then 19:28:31 <oskari89> Thx :) 19:28:33 <Yexo> krinn: talking about a bus/truck? 19:28:39 <planetmaker> oskari89, there might not be an exact tutorial for objects. But of course there's the ^ 19:28:45 <krinn> Yexo, yes 19:29:10 <krinn> wait a sec i'll gave you the message if i try by hands to order it to a station (my ai cannot get that error) 19:29:29 <planetmaker> and for objects you can find something in ogfx+landscape... though that might be way over the top compared to what you need 19:30:00 <planetmaker> it works basically the same as industry tiles or airport tiles which you find in FIRS or ogfx+airports repos 19:30:04 <krinn> Yexo, translate from french to english it says "cannot add order, that vehicle cannot goes in that station" 19:30:11 <planetmaker> or ogfx+industries for that matter 19:30:18 <Yexo> krinn: which AIOrder function are you using? 19:30:31 <planetmaker> krinn, bus vs truck? 19:30:35 <Yexo> and what error message does your AI get? 19:30:52 <krinn> the classic one, but the AI cannot get any error, just it fail, the error message comes from me switching to play as my ai and trying to set the order with the GUI 19:30:56 <krinn> bus 19:31:02 <planetmaker> and the station is also bus? 19:31:02 <krinn> ikarus 180 19:31:07 <Yexo> an AI can always get an error 19:31:08 <krinn> from ikarus set 19:31:21 <krinn> Yexo, no, the ai get the failure, but ERR_NONE 19:31:40 <Yexo> are you using AppendOrder() ? 19:32:03 <krinn> 2s checking how i add them, but must be that 19:32:25 <krinn> if (!AIOrder.AppendOrder(veh, homedepot, AIOrder.AIOF_STOP_IN_DEPOT)) 19:32:26 <krinn> { DError("Vehicle refuse goto depot order",2,"cCarrier::VehicleSetDepotOrder"); } 19:32:35 <krinn> Derror display the message + the last error string 19:32:44 <krinn> and the result is boolean = false error=NONE 19:33:08 <Yexo> are you sure "homedepot" is correct? 19:33:09 <krinn> and that engine bypass my valuate(AIEngine.IsArticulated) keepvalue(0) 19:33:18 <krinn> not refusing depot order 19:33:22 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-180-33.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:33:26 <krinn> only station order 19:33:38 <krinn> and it's a bus station, not a truck one :) 19:33:50 <krinn> just a classic station, not one "on the road" 19:34:47 <Yexo> AIOrder.AIOF_STOP_IN_DEPOT <- that does not make sense for a "goto station" order 19:34:47 <krinn> that's why i'm lost, it really answer false to AIEngine.IsArticulated but looks like it is 19:35:12 <krinn> oh sorry Yexo this one a sample of how i set order 19:35:19 <krinn> didn't see first it was for a depot 19:35:32 <krinn> but this one work, setting a depot work, only station are refuse 19:35:39 <Yexo> and you can manually reproduce the problem? Without any AI I mean? 19:35:47 <planetmaker> I think you should paste your relevant code. And maybe your testgame 19:35:47 <krinn> yes 19:35:52 <planetmaker> this is getting quite confusing 19:36:06 <krinn> when i play as my AI i try by hands setttings order and it says "that vehcile cannot use that station" 19:36:13 <planetmaker> ah 19:36:27 <krinn> there's no really a problem with code, just the newgrf and NOAI api 19:36:50 <Yexo> "ikarus 180" looks like an articulated engine 19:37:01 <krinn> it looks like yes 19:37:09 <krinn> but my query to IsArticlated says false 19:37:22 <krinn> so it isn't remove from my engine list of possible bus to use 19:37:26 <krinn> and so the problem comes 19:37:55 <krinn> it really looks (the grphic) and act like articulated engine 19:38:04 <krinn> but AIEngine.IsArticalted says false 19:38:25 <Yexo> it's definitely articulated 19:38:42 <krinn> but it says false 19:39:03 <krinn> hence my question: can newgrf also lie to IsArticulated :) 19:39:11 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm22.epsilon82.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [] 19:39:17 <Yexo> no 19:39:28 <krinn> then i found a bug :) 19:39:31 <krinn> because this one lie 19:39:37 <planetmaker> in your code? :-P 19:39:51 <krinn> no, just create a simple ai if you wish 19:40:04 <krinn> you just have to show result of AIEngine.IsArticulated result you'll see 19:40:08 <Yexo> there is at least some bug in the openttd code 19:40:18 <Yexo> CountArticulatedParts will return 0 when no vehicle can be allocated 19:40:24 <Yexo> which is wrong since it's used in the AI API 19:41:20 <Yexo> though my guess would be the newgrf might be returning inconsistent information too 19:41:41 <krinn> if you wish test, i have in openttdcoop post an aivehicletest 19:41:48 <krinn> but i can't find the link :) 19:41:57 <krinn> the search engine there is a bit weak 19:42:13 <Yexo> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-aivehicletest ? 19:42:21 <Yexo> google works fine with site:openttdcoop.org 19:42:22 <krinn> oh yes 19:42:26 <krinn> that one 19:42:28 <krinn> run it 19:42:49 <krinn> switch to the AI player and edit the X label with Ikarus 180 19:43:18 <krinn> if you have the ikarus set, you'll see the answer for many AI query, and answer for AIEngine.IsArticulated will show a false 19:44:18 <krinn> oh wait i could paste there the result from the console if you wish 19:44:28 <Yexo> I've run it already 19:44:56 <krinn> it's a simple AI that just query the noai api and display result 19:46:21 <krinn> btw using 1.1.5, i think noai api 1.0 19:50:59 <krinn> (i'm sooooo skill at finding bugs...) 20:07:20 <Yexo> krinn: as long as the engine is not yet build, it's not articulated 20:07:34 <Yexo> but any vehicle build from that engine type will be articulated 20:07:49 <Yexo> it's not strictly a bug in the newgrf (it works according to the spec) 20:08:12 <Yexo> however there is some ambiguity there, we'll try something different in openttd 20:08:52 <krinn> so, we end with INVALID_ENGINE ? 20:09:07 <krinn> and i=1 while return i - 1; == 0 20:09:13 <Yexo> yep 20:09:44 <krinn> strange only that engine does that 20:09:46 <Yexo> the newgrf spec doesn't specify that a newgrf must implement the articulated callback for the "build menu chain" which is called when a vehicle doesn't exist 20:10:01 <krinn> we might have others too i never seen, but others looks to works 20:10:40 <krinn> newgrf bug so, not really newgrf, but the specs should enforce callback usage 20:11:01 <Yexo> but they don't, hence it's currently nog a bug in the newgrf 20:11:11 <krinn> but how can openttd return its capacity ? 20:11:14 <Yexo> and in general we try to avoid changes to the spec that break existing newgrfs 20:11:33 <krinn> i mean i saw openttd get the capacity for each articulated part : so engine is also not built, but capacity is count 20:11:42 <Yexo> the newgrf can fake the capacity for the first part 20:12:01 <Rhamphoryncus> I need a break from thinking about all these curves.. time for some minecraft :D 20:12:30 <krinn> Yexo, this also explain why newgrf can lie about the engine length 20:12:44 <Rhamphoryncus> Doh, server is down 20:12:48 *** [1]Mark [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:12:50 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:12:50 *** Mark is now known as Guest6283 20:12:50 *** Markk is now known as Mark 20:13:31 <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: my (and OpenTTD's) server work perfectly okay 20:13:42 <Rhamphoryncus> Minecraft server 20:13:58 <Rhamphoryncus> And it's merely turned off :P 20:14:14 <Rhamphoryncus> (But openttd is MUCH more reliable than minecraft..) 20:14:30 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-14-177.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:14:34 <krinn> Yexo, how about returning non zero for if (!HasBit(EngInfo(engine_type)->callback_mask, CBM_VEHICLE_ARTIC_ENGINE)) return 0; 20:14:51 <Yexo> we've been discussing that :) 20:14:55 <krinn> this way, openttd must assume non callback = articulated 20:14:59 <krinn> oh :) 20:15:41 <krinn> and just writing it down here i realize why: classic engine newgrf makers certainly doesn't set the callback if they build a non articulated engine :( 20:18:35 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-122-219.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:18:46 *** Guest6283 [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:19:15 <krinn> i think CountArticulatedParts should be 1 base and not 0 base, so we could see if >1 articulated if 1 non articulated and if 0 missing the callback (no info) 20:19:45 <Yexo> missing callback means non-articulated 20:19:48 <Yexo> there is no way around that 20:20:10 <krinn> how about then forcing the engine creation? 20:20:19 <Yexo> the change that we would make: if callback flag is set: assume the engine is articulated 20:20:31 <krinn> by telling return CountArticulatedParts(engine_id, false) != 0; 20:20:58 <Yexo> technically a newgrf can set the articulated_engine flag but not return any articulated parts, so it wouldn't really be articulated 20:21:15 <Yexo> in this case the AI would think the engine was articulated while actually it's not (=the reverse of your current problem) 20:21:34 <Yexo> I don't think that situation would lead to problems, since anywhere you can use an articulated vehicle you can use a non-articulated one too 20:21:41 <krinn> the false shouldn't force openttd to build an engine to get a real answer ? 20:21:55 <krinn> i see a v = new Vehicle() if false 20:22:08 <krinn> for the bool purchase_window 20:24:15 <krinn> i love the : "so it doesn't matter how many articulated parts there are" :D 20:24:55 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:25:02 <krinn> it looks like the bill gates "640k will be enough..." kind of citation :) 20:25:19 <Yexo> that is not the problem 20:25:28 <Yexo> and it's not that kind of citation, this one is correct 20:26:13 <krinn> looks like a dead end, it doesn't matter for openttd as no one wish see how many articulated parts are there in the gui, but that's different for noai 20:26:44 <Yexo> it's like if you want to know if you have enough money to buy a book, you go to the store and try to buy it. At home you first check if your wallet isn't empty. If it's empty, you say "I don't have to go to the store, it doesn't matter how cheap the book is, I don't have money anyway." 20:27:33 <krinn> clear now 20:28:01 <krinn> but if you cannot enforce articlated specs of newgrf, this is mostly unsolvable 20:30:43 <Hirundo> Currently a newgrf can make vehicles bought on Wednesdays articulated and those bought on all other weekdays not 20:31:31 <krinn> yes, but currently noai cannot know if it's wednesdays or not, and if the newgrf wish do that... 20:31:34 <krinn> totally blind 20:32:20 <Hirundo> NoAI can get the current game date and then determine if it's a (in-game) Wednesday 20:33:06 <Hirundo> but that newgrf may also decide to change its behaviour depending on a parameter, or the presence of another grf, or even a parameter of that other grf 20:33:18 <Hirundo> So indeed, for all practical purposes you're blind :-) 20:33:27 <krinn> :) 20:34:03 <krinn> we can still create a list of engine and blacklist any engine that doesn't accept the AIOrder, but any ai then must build and use its own engine table 20:34:04 <andythenorth> same issue for NoGo too btw 20:34:13 <krinn> NoGo is just an ai 20:34:21 <krinn> if i get it right :) 20:34:37 <planetmaker> not quite. It has different powers. But conceptually yes 20:34:39 <Yexo> there are differences in the API (some functions are only available for NoGo, some only for NoAI) 20:38:06 <krinn> you wish a filebug for it ? it looks a simple issue, with a real hard solve 20:38:23 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/articulated.diff <- seems simply enough 20:39:21 <krinn> hu? 20:39:34 <krinn> this one should return false if HasBit isn't set right ? 20:39:56 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host81-154-194-79.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:39:57 <andythenorth> Yexo: enforce the buy menu cb in newgrf v9 :P 20:40:08 <krinn> so the AI will still get false and think the vehicle isn't articulated 20:40:32 <Yexo> krinn: IsArticulatedEngine returns true if the CBM_VEHICLE_ARTIC_ENGINE flag is set 20:40:47 <krinn> lol but the problem is that this flag isn't set 20:40:50 <Yexo> that flag is set for the Ikarus 180 20:40:55 <krinn> oh 20:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: but the artic callback could return "not articulated", even if the bit is set 20:41:09 <Yexo> if the flag isn't set the vehicle is definitely not articulated 20:41:21 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: yes, but for the NoAI API this is the lesser evil 20:41:34 <krinn> lol wonder how many newgrf are lying around non articulated with that flag set :) 20:41:47 <Yexo> returning "is articulated" when actually it "is not articulated" does not lead to as many problems as the other way around 20:42:21 <Chris_Booth[ph]> Yexo: if it's an AI issue is in not best to force 20:42:22 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: it could just be something generic, like "i set all vehicles to have this callback, whether i use that is determined later" 20:42:24 <krinn> yep as my ai will just clear a non articulated vehicle, not a big issue to lost one 20:42:44 <Chris_Booth[ph]> Then they can only use drive through stops 20:43:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: why can't it just run the callback without being able to allocate the vehicles? 20:43:12 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: it does that 20:43:26 <Yexo> but in this particular case the newgrf doesn't have the callback chain in the main menu 20:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: so call it as the purchase menu? 20:44:14 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, i see what you mean 20:44:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it branches differently in the action3 20:45:02 <Eddi|zuHause> and there's probably no foolproof method 20:45:34 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79.68.97.12] has joined #openttd 20:45:36 <Yexo> calling the "normal" chain, but that expects vehicle variables to be there, so you'd need to really allocate the vehicles, only to delete them later 20:45:52 <Yexo> and even that can/will fail for your wednesday example 20:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it's certainly not "my" example... 20:47:01 <Yexo> oh, sorry, Hirundo gave it above 20:48:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r24029 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Change: [NoAI] make AIEngine::IsArticulated return true if the articulated callback flag is set, don't try to run the callback. 20:49:27 <krinn> thank you guys for the solve 20:50:03 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:50:11 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 20:52:24 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-154-194-79.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:53:34 <planetmaker> <andythenorth> Yexo: enforce the buy menu cb in newgrf v9 :P <-- I'd rather say: "no special purchase stuff except graphics" 20:53:53 <andythenorth> nah, that won't work :) 20:53:57 <planetmaker> why not? 20:54:09 <andythenorth> because purchase menu doesn't know consist capacity etc 20:54:17 <andythenorth> you have to tell it such things 20:54:31 <andythenorth> well I do anyway :P 20:54:34 <planetmaker> run the actual consist capacity CB for that. But no special branch 20:54:49 <planetmaker> though... yes, difficult 20:54:55 <Yexo> it doesn't know currently, but the code can be changed to build a vehicle (including all articulated parts), compute consist capacity/other information, then destroy the vehicle again 20:54:55 <planetmaker> bad idea :-) 20:55:12 <planetmaker> (mine) 20:55:22 <krinn> some newgrf authors could build buggy engine for AI if they could switch properties like that no ? 20:55:33 <andythenorth> it has to handle cargo subtypes and such 20:55:39 <andythenorth> you can see HEQS nfo code for examples 20:55:41 <planetmaker> krinn, why "could". They can 20:55:45 <andythenorth> or probably BANDIT nml 20:55:46 <krinn> i mean showing capacity of 1000 and then when brought setting it to 0... 20:55:55 <planetmaker> and they sometimes do 20:55:58 <krinn> planetmaker, i was thinking that 20:56:04 <andythenorth> also wagon power, weight etc has to be handled 20:56:43 <planetmaker> andythenorth, I know that all that needs handling. But when just summing over all articulated parts as if built, that's much more fail-proof 20:57:54 <andythenorth> shrug :) 20:58:04 <andythenorth> I really don't mind how it's implemented 20:58:20 <krinn> andythenorth, must be why we get bug like that next :) 20:58:31 <andythenorth> I'm not too bothered if the spec changes either, as long as changes are aware of why current approach is used 20:58:54 <planetmaker> why is the current approach used? 20:59:19 <planetmaker> only reason I can imagine is "I don't want to test-build a vehicle for the purchase list" 20:59:32 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host81-154-194-79.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 21:00:05 <krinn> Yexo, did you check ikarus 280 ? 21:00:15 <krinn> looks like gfx also show an articulated bus 21:00:24 <krinn> and engine return false for that one too 21:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: maybe generally building "test" vehicles may be useful to clean up the whole purchase-list callback mess 21:02:15 <andythenorth> planetmaker: probably hysterical raisins :P 21:03:00 <Eddi|zuHause> people have been complaining that the purchase list stats for complicated articulated chains are "wrong" for ages 21:03:16 <andythenorth> they should man up and fix it 21:03:27 <andythenorth> it only took me a day to find a good non-insane solution :P 21:03:44 <andythenorth> where's the problem? :| 21:05:09 <krinn> andythenorth you're newgrf maker no ? 21:05:23 <andythenorth> yup 21:06:42 <krinn> if you did like that author did, would you change to handle the callback ? 21:08:17 <krinn> just to know if i could take time to find who made that newgrf with ikarus to tell him about the issue 21:09:25 <planetmaker> andythenorth, IMHO it is indeed conceptually wrong that there's a separate chain where the NewGRF author decides what to return as display values for the properties. Which can differ totally from what you get when actually building it 21:09:42 <andythenorth> planetmaker: no argument 21:09:57 <planetmaker> as it both, is more work for the NewGRF author and even with the best of intentions and effort can fail 21:10:00 <andythenorth> I am having to provide quite a lot of brittle code (in HEQS) to make the buy menu match what is built 21:10:12 <andythenorth> in BANDIT, life is much easier, the build script sorts it out 21:10:25 <andythenorth> one tram in HEQS took an afternoon 21:15:39 <krinn> i think newgrf authors only design/code their newgrf specs base on openttd experience, they should be more aware of noai issue 21:16:03 <andythenorth> krinn: your point is well made 21:16:08 <andythenorth> no idea how to solve it though 21:16:21 <andythenorth> there aren't enough hours per day to deal with all the complexity 21:16:43 <andythenorth> and for hysterical raisins, bits of the API are...at best messy 21:17:00 <krinn> as long as they are aware noai exist, this should remove many errors/tweaks needs 21:18:25 <andythenorth> what are the issues? 21:18:46 <krinn> until the fix hit the noai api any ai will fail on that bus 21:19:55 <krinn> and this mean handling all engine and a blacklist, blacklisting any "ikarus" in engine name... something not really nice or easy to do as first sight, like remove an articulated vehicle should do 21:20:54 <andythenorth> you should refuse to handle such grfs, and post errors 21:21:12 <andythenorth> noai authors have been a good source of bug reports / change requests for FIRS 21:21:17 <andythenorth> it makes for cleaner newgrf 21:21:18 <planetmaker> krinn, normally NewGRF authors should not need care about AI 21:21:25 <andythenorth> +1 21:21:34 <andythenorth> I don't / won't do anything special to support AI 21:21:39 <krinn> newgrf authors should care about openttd: and noai like newgrf are openttd 21:21:48 <planetmaker> AI should get all required info by means of the API 21:21:48 <andythenorth> but cleaning up mistakes is not special support 21:22:28 <planetmaker> andythenorth, support for AI can be part of writing NewGRFs. Like special information on categorizing stuff 21:22:34 <krinn> planetmaker, even the fix now exist this mean for me per example, the noai will never be able to query how many articulated parts a vehicle have 21:22:57 <krinn> i don't see any usage right now for that, just an example what this fix will imply 21:22:57 <planetmaker> krinn, that's also not important. Nor accessible to the human player 21:23:15 <krinn> not important for human isn't the same for an AI 21:23:34 <planetmaker> where does it matter? The only imporant info is arcticulated yes/no 21:23:53 <planetmaker> or rather: can use normal road stops 21:24:10 <krinn> right now yes, i already said i don't see the usage for that, just that because of that, i see the noai cannot get it 21:24:43 <frosch123> krinn: when we get vehicle construction sandboxes, ais and humans will be able to query everything :) 21:25:25 <krinn> just to cite you planetmaker >> and AI should get all required info by means of the API 21:25:28 <krinn> see my point ? 21:25:47 <krinn> even not useful i know, this cite cannot be true 21:25:53 <planetmaker> no. "required info" cannot be more info than available to a human player 21:26:12 <krinn> oh, and AI should act like human player base on 0 info 21:26:21 <frosch123> well, a ai will never be able to understand the readme 21:26:21 <krinn> sorry, human player at least have "visual" info 21:26:32 <krinn> frosch123, right 21:26:44 <planetmaker> krinn, the visual info will not tell you the amount of articulated parts reliably 21:26:47 <frosch123> e.g. it has no chance to detect whether a vehicle has constant running cost, or whether they depend on speed 21:26:54 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:27:07 <frosch123> and there will never be an api function to query this from the purchase list 21:27:14 <planetmaker> I know of grfs which use invisbible articulated parts 21:27:35 <krinn> lol oh my planetmaker i wasn't aware of that 21:27:40 <krinn> :) 21:27:49 <frosch123> number of articulated parts? what is that good for 21:28:01 <frosch123> i think what krinn wants to know is the length of the vehicle 21:28:12 <planetmaker> that's a different thing entirely 21:28:13 <frosch123> there is no point in the number of articulated parts, is there? 21:28:20 <planetmaker> ^^ yup 21:28:22 <krinn> frosch123, yep, something as simple as that is a nightmare for an ai 21:28:36 <frosch123> krinn: it's also for humans :p 21:28:42 <krinn> like the wagon that is length 10 and when buy length 15 : nice you've build a train too long 21:29:00 <planetmaker> also for humans 21:29:28 <planetmaker> this stuff has a lot of historical bear traps built into it 21:29:34 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A049.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:35 <frosch123> the only solution we can offer for this is a construction sandbox 21:29:55 <frosch123> but you won't be able to cut 90% of grf features just to make it easy for ais and boring for humans :p 21:30:03 <planetmaker> :-) 21:30:15 <andythenorth> there is no practical way that HEQS could provide accurate AI information about the trams 21:30:36 <andythenorth> the API we have simply has no concept for that kind of stuff 21:30:36 <frosch123> andythenorth: construction sandboxes would also make it easier for newgrfs :p 21:30:45 <andythenorth> frosch123: so I see :) 21:30:50 <krinn> i don't want cut 90% newgrf features, but some simple thing could be made to ease thing 21:31:04 <planetmaker> andythenorth, for all it's worth: it suffices to know "carries cargo X". "has length Y" and "has top speed Z" and can be built from 1843 to 1932 21:31:23 <andythenorth> has length Y for refit A 21:31:41 <krinn> and just costs! 21:32:05 <andythenorth> solving this would require 'frameworking' the newgrf spec 21:32:12 <krinn> to see what vehicle is the cheapest to build to carry A, an ai must build and refit all vehicle to compare 21:32:28 <andythenorth> 'frameworking' = provide a wide range of inflexible built-in functions 21:32:29 <planetmaker> krinn, so does the human player 21:32:37 <planetmaker> or read the readme (if any explaining it) 21:32:45 <andythenorth> krinn: do you also refit to all subtypes for a vehicle? 21:32:58 <frosch123> andythenorth: ais do not know about subtypes :p 21:33:05 <planetmaker> :-D 21:33:07 <krinn> the human player learn it 1 time, the ai learn it (if coded and it was a pain) every time its run 21:33:09 <andythenorth> they're screwed then ;) :D 21:33:35 <planetmaker> krinn, save that info 21:33:58 <krinn> i could, but we're limit by save take too long time, so i won't 21:34:02 <planetmaker> you've to learn it for each game then, but well 21:34:19 <planetmaker> memorizing all NewGRFs also takes too much time. So I don't :-P 21:34:23 <krinn> but the point was that the human save it in his mind, while the ai need to learn at each new party even if it save it in savegame 21:34:40 <planetmaker> you can build that logic into your AI's file 21:34:57 <planetmaker> can AIs query the (exact) NewGRFs? 21:35:04 <Yexo> no 21:35:07 <krinn> no :( 21:35:19 <krinn> same, AI cannot know what newgrf are in use 21:35:20 <planetmaker> hm. Ok. Plan foiled 21:36:32 <krinn> per example if i blacklist any ikarus name, i might blacklist a newgrf with ikarus bus X that have its callback properly set... 21:37:20 <planetmaker> The better way is in any case for the AI to query the game for needed properties of stuff 21:37:24 <planetmaker> way more flexible 21:37:39 <planetmaker> Even when it has to do it for every start 21:38:32 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 21:38:33 <planetmaker> I'm not 100% sure whether it'd be a good idea to allow direct query 21:38:38 <planetmaker> It has pros. But also cons 21:39:04 <krinn> as long as noai could be cheat, ai author will get lost 21:40:11 <frosch123> planetmaker: you mean a blacklist of bad vehicle grfs for ais on bananas? :p 21:40:52 <krinn> frosch123 bad newgrf for some AI could be good newgrf for more advance ai 21:41:08 <planetmaker> frosch123, not really :-P 21:41:13 <rane> can i generate landscape settings with the guy for a server? 21:41:18 <rane> guy->gui 21:41:27 <Yexo> rane: yes 21:41:28 <rane> are they saved to a cfg? 21:41:31 <Yexo> yes 21:41:34 <Yexo> to openttd.cfg 21:41:39 <Yexo> see the readme where you can find it 21:42:54 <andythenorth> http://teddziuba.com/2010/10/taco-bell-programming.html 21:44:52 <krinn> that taco bell answer would be blacklist any ikarus name :P 21:46:19 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-4.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:46:55 *** collinp [~collin@h73.133.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd 21:56:22 <frosch123> night kids 21:56:25 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009137.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:33 <rane> landscape = tropic is awfully arid 21:59:31 <krinn> Yexo, that ikarus 180 also do glitches in openttd list of running vehicle :P 21:59:51 <Yexo> so report it to the newgrf author :) 22:00:04 <krinn> the picture looks like it is "eaten" by the vehicle number sometimes 22:01:29 <andythenorth> ha ha 22:01:29 <andythenorth> http://teddziuba.com/2009/10/i-dont-code-in-my-free-time.html 22:01:35 * andythenorth codes in his free time, for fun 22:01:41 <andythenorth> good article 22:01:47 * andythenorth goes to bed in his free time, also 22:03:54 <SpComb> how terrible 22:04:02 <SpComb> that guy 22:06:45 <krinn> this guy is mad :) 22:07:21 <Terkhen> good night 22:07:29 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:07:52 <krinn> it's just logic to ask that to a dev, just like you would prefer a driver that use his car everydays vs one that just got his license to drive your kids at school 22:08:10 <andythenorth> he's slightly trolling 22:08:21 <andythenorth> read the rest of his posts, he's a lot fun 22:08:51 <andythenorth> I employee people who refuse to write code in their spare time 22:08:59 <andythenorth> there's nothing wrong with their code 22:09:19 <andythenorth> I've employed people who loved writing code in their spare time who were just awful 22:09:26 <krinn> there's nothing wrong too with someone who got his license, else he wouldn't have it right? 22:10:01 <krinn> it's just about logic, even logic isn't truth sometimes 22:10:15 <krinn> eheh i suppose alain prost got accident too :) 22:10:53 <Zuu> Well, young men are more probable to have a car accident. 22:11:35 <krinn> yep zuu, just like dev coding in their free time should have stronger knowledge: logic 22:12:13 <krinn> not always true, but you can't blame anyone from assuming that 22:13:01 <krinn> we have a story here (france) that alain prost was caught at 320km/h on one of our route (limit to 130km/h) with a ferrari 22:13:44 <krinn> and cops leave him gone away without ticket seeing it was alain prost (for the fame & the driving skill), who knows! 22:14:35 <krinn> but i admit it's a story :) our cops are bitches 22:15:08 <Yexo> andythenorth: I like his style of posting 22:15:16 <andythenorth> he's funny 22:15:24 <andythenorth> I lost my evening to reading his stuff :P 22:15:26 <Yexo> teddziuba.com/2011/10/straight-talk-on-event-loops.html "Since it's now clear that reading comprehension and critical thinking are not strong suits of the Node.js programmer, I would suggest that all Noders reading this article read it aloud, slowly and loudly, like an American tourist trying to find a train station in Tokyo." 22:15:45 <krinn> i think it's sarcasm, just like the picture use with the cute rabbit eaten 22:16:28 <Yexo> sure, partly it is 22:19:31 *** Devedse_ [~Devedse@d100059.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 22:23:17 <krinn> Suppose you're a less-than-expert programmer, which Node seems to attract in droves for some reason. 22:23:28 <krinn> troll bait :) 22:28:13 <krinn> night all 22:28:17 *** krinn [~krinn@183.210.73.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 22:28:57 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-154-194-79.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120310173008]] 22:35:51 <andythenorth> "Don't do image processing work with PIL unless you have proven that command-line ImageMagick won't do the job" 22:35:52 <andythenorth> :D 22:35:56 <andythenorth> http://teddziuba.com/2010/09/programming-things-i-wish-i-knew.html 22:41:49 <Zuu> Are 11 stickies in the 32bit forum really needed? 22:41:56 <Yexo> no 22:41:58 <Zuu> Does the one with most stkies win? 22:42:03 <Zuu> :-) 22:42:34 <Yexo> jupix and pikka are moderators there 22:45:10 *** kkb110__ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:45:10 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:15 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:59:54 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 23:01:51 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:02:03 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178193134.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:03:52 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 23:04:10 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-74-170.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:10:50 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:13:48 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:15:25 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 23:15:26 *** George is now known as Guest6302 23:15:26 *** George|2 is now known as George 23:20:36 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-207.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 23:20:45 *** Guest6302 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:04 *** cl8 [~cl8@host-92-3-253-43.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:32:58 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 23:42:07 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.73.199] has joined #openttd 23:47:10 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79.68.97.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:53:49 <peter1138> Pikka, Pikka Pikka Pikka Pikka 23:54:16 <Pikka> peter1138, peter1138, peter1138, peter1139 23:54:39 <peter1138> do you fancy sorting out the 32bit sticky mess? 23:54:52 <Pikka> wokay 23:55:24 <peter1138> there's like eleventy million stickies 23:55:36 <Pikka> just a mo, I'll go look 23:56:01 <peter1138> pretty much all obsolete or just, er, crap, heh 23:56:48 <Pikka> okay, what needs to go? 23:56:59 <Pikka> or what needs to stay? 23:58:24 <peter1138> good question. i'd say all :p 23:58:27 <peter1138> damn 23:58:40 <peter1138> i suppose it should be jupix sorting it out, as he did the deed in the first place 23:59:18 <Pikka> mmhm :P