Log for #openttd on 20th March 2012:
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01:25:23  <moopf> hi
01:25:51  <moopf> where can i get source code for server plugins like goals etc?
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01:28:10  <moopf> where can i get source code for server plugins like goals etc?
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01:29:54  * drac_boy thinks someone lacks a bit of sense
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01:32:55  <Moopf> anyone here knows how to run a customized server?
01:34:16  <Eddi|zuHause> in 1.2.0 you can write a GameScript to provide goals and stuff
01:36:51  <Moopf> is it already released?
01:37:17  <Moopf> i only have 1.1.5
01:37:52  <Eddi|zuHause> no, if you read the topic then you'd see 1.2.0 is currently at RC3
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01:38:30  <Eddi|zuHause> means you've got around 2 weeks to assemble your script so you have it ready for release :)
01:38:44  <Moopf> :P
01:43:06  <Moopf> oh no, it is killing me to wait 14 looong days :)
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03:30:42  <Elukka> you can always play the release candidate or a nightly
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06:21:51  <Pikka> good morning andy
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06:26:13  <andythenorth> monsieur bird
06:26:56  <andythenorth> sent you BANDIT
06:27:02  <andythenorth> two trucks, available 1960 ish
06:27:14  <andythenorth> and lots more in nouveau colours
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06:28:41  <Pikka> cool
06:28:45  <Pikka> btw
06:28:53  <Pikka> are they 6 or 8 wide in the | view?
06:29:18  <Pikka> 'cause I'm going with 6 :)
06:29:24  * andythenorth looks
06:30:05  <andythenorth> seems to be 8
06:30:21  <Pikka> hmm
06:30:57  <Pikka> ooh, flashy trailers :)
06:31:09  <Pikka> literally
06:31:13  <andythenorth> quite
06:31:27  <andythenorth> the grf seems to lie about the palette currently
06:31:48  <andythenorth> hmm
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06:32:10  <andythenorth> maybe I should fix it up and release it
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06:32:35  <Pikka> nice trailers :)
06:32:53  <andythenorth> I like the tank trailer
06:32:59  <Pikka> yes
06:33:00  <andythenorth> I was pleased with generator for that
06:33:33  <Pikka> oh, invisible trucks :)
06:34:01  <andythenorth> I have outsourced drawing trucks to canada, for the tax breaks
06:34:02  <Pikka> smoke particules :)
06:34:06  <andythenorth> canada is busy :P
06:34:10  <Pikka> hehe
06:34:16  <Pikka> I think the diagonals could be thinner
06:34:27  <Pikka> I'll finish up some hqovs and talk to canada
06:34:38  <andythenorth> yup ok
06:34:56  <andythenorth> being as I have a magic generator, making the trailers less wide is not too hard
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06:35:17  <andythenorth> bribe canada with code for the canset?
06:35:23  <Pikka> ew
06:35:36  <Pikka> :) my coding is thoroughly old-fashioned these days, anyway
06:35:47  <andythenorth> 'tis a shame about canset
06:35:56  <Pikka> yes
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06:36:35  <Pikka> where did these truck names come from, anyway
06:37:09  <Rhamphoryncus> Pikka: ever thought about an option for grossly exaggerated TE differences?  It seems that IRL they're quite small and exist mostly to gain a few percent of efficiency.. which doesn't carry over into openttd
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06:37:58  <Pikka> grossly exaggerated TE differences for what, Rhamphoryncus?
06:38:20  <Rhamphoryncus> for engines
06:38:51  <Pikka> any in particular?
06:38:52  <Rhamphoryncus> So that a heavy freight engine has a clear advantage over a pax engine under common freight usage
06:39:04  <Rhamphoryncus> Every one that says suitable for freight :)
06:39:49  <Pikka> they already do have a clear advantage, especially if you set the cargo weight mulitplier
06:40:23  <Pikka> and it's not necessarily all about TE anyway
06:40:23  <Rhamphoryncus> 10-20% at low speeds?  Irrelevant at high speeds?
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06:40:37  <Pikka> yep
06:41:21  <Pikka> anyway, the answer to your question is no.
06:42:27  <Pikka> I never have thought about that
06:42:45  <Rhamphoryncus> My experience has always been that high speed pax engines is better.  I've tried turning up the freight multiplier and it's fine on level ground but on hills you get random jams, encouraging you to have lots of parallel lines and long signal gaps to prevent stopping
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06:43:56  <Rhamphoryncus> Today I figured out how TE actually works (thanks to valhallasw), and.. I'm still better off with pax engines.  Yes, they slow down more on hills, but they're starting from a higher speed so they still end up faster.  The only thing that matters is the jamming, which is only 10%-20%
06:44:24  <Pikka> why are they starting from a higher speed?  do you have wagon speedlimits turned off?
06:44:34  <andythenorth> truck names are mostly from mountains, rivers, state parks etc
06:44:48  <Rhamphoryncus> Lately I've been playing with them on
06:44:51  * andythenorth doesn't like real names much
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06:45:41  <Rhamphoryncus> But even then there's often options involving refitting of high speed wagons
06:45:51  <Pikka> sure
06:46:01  <Pikka> and if you want a high-speed goods train, you put a high speed locomotive on it
06:46:24  <Rhamphoryncus> It seems daft to have a low-speed train
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06:46:43  <Rhamphoryncus> Unless you're limiting yourself to the slowest train on the line
06:47:02  <Pikka> well, you can't pick and choose your features and effects.  TE won't make a difference unless you have heavy, slow trains.
06:47:40  <Rhamphoryncus> That's why I'd like it.  It'd give them some sort of advantage, a tradeoff to make
06:48:17  <andythenorth> just use more of them :P
06:48:35  <Rhamphoryncus> more of what?
06:48:38  <andythenorth> engines
06:48:42  <andythenorth> they'll stomp up hills then
06:48:55  <Rhamphoryncus> Yes, I know
06:49:10  <Rhamphoryncus> Stick 5 fast PAX engines on whenever possible
06:49:26  <Rhamphoryncus> Use freight engines only when the wagon speed limits dictate you must
06:49:37  <andythenorth> this is the game
06:50:04  <andythenorth> some of the stuff that matters in real life barely applies: maintenance cost, reliability, fuel consumption
06:50:07  <Rhamphoryncus> It's tiresome to have hard limits rather than tradeoffs
06:50:11  <andythenorth> track wear, manning costs
06:50:25  <andythenorth> durability
06:50:31  <Rhamphoryncus> Yes, that's why I want an option to exaggerate what does matter in game
06:51:01  <Rhamphoryncus> If you needed half as many freight engines as PAX engines then I'd really have to debate them
06:51:07  <andythenorth> Pikka: do you boost TE on any freight engines to simulate wheelslip control?
06:51:20  <Pikka> if you want to exaggerate the effect of TE, you can already do that with the cargo weight and hill multipliers, Rhamphoryncus.
06:51:22  <andythenorth> (only makes a difference at low speed, and PAX engines often have it to)
06:51:50  <Pikka> yes andy, the later diesels and electrics (66 onwards) have ridiculously high TE compared to anything before.
06:52:53  <Rhamphoryncus> That's an absolute effect.  Still 10%-20% difference.  6 pax engines vs 5 freight engines.
06:53:15  <andythenorth> shrug
06:53:18  <Pikka> if you're putting 5 locomotives on a train, then yes, it's going to stomp anything
06:53:35  <Pikka> I'm pretty sure if you put 5 real life locomotives on a typical train it's going to stomp anything
06:53:59  <Rhamphoryncus> My current thinking is 1% grade with a large multiplier, so it's always slow to accelerate but you don't need overkill to prevent jams
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06:54:09  <Pikka> "jams"
06:54:12  <Pikka> see
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06:54:15  <Rhamphoryncus> Stomping is an undesired side effect.  The problem is jams.
06:54:27  <Pikka> you want TE to be important, but you don't want trains to slow down
06:54:34  <Rhamphoryncus> No no, slow is fine
06:54:41  <Rhamphoryncus> My concern is *stopping*
06:54:49  <andythenorth> jams will occur if you have mixed speeds ;)
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06:55:15  <Rhamphoryncus> If you exceed around 9 tons/% grade/kN you still not be able to get going again
06:55:37  <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: which is another reason to turn off wagon speed limits, which again leads to only using pax engines
06:55:43  <andythenorth> yup
06:55:59  <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: why is amtrak often late?
06:56:09  <Pikka> because they have wagon speedlimits on, andythenorth
06:56:23  <Rhamphoryncus> I'm not american, I know little of amtrak
06:57:32  <andythenorth> amtrak is often late due to unreliable engines, and crashing into trucks on ungated crossings
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06:57:50  <Rhamphoryncus> A real train is smart enough to stop and back up, or split into two trains, or get a helper.  Trains in openttd are not, which turns it into a major problem
06:57:52  <andythenorth> but also due to sharing track with mile-long freights
06:57:54  <Elukka> because it's the last vestige of functional rail public transport in the country? :P
06:58:54  <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: also, you could patch the grf for TE ;)
06:59:37  <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: Pondering it.  I'm guessing a second grf can't modify another one on the fly?
06:59:58  <Pikka> of course it can
07:00:44  <Rhamphoryncus> Hmm, maybe then
07:01:09  <Pikka> good luck bringing interesting gameplay to your world of pentuple-deltic-headed 100mph coal trains.
07:01:53  <Rhamphoryncus> That's what I'm trying to avoid x_x
07:02:02  <Rhamphoryncus> That's the status quo
07:02:30  * andythenorth wonders if breakdowns / reliability could be fixed
07:02:42  * Pikka shrugs
07:02:55  <Pikka> 99% of players have them switched off, so I shouldn't put too much effort into it
07:03:43  <Rhamphoryncus> It's broken, but everybody knows it's broken, so don't bother fixing it?
07:04:18  <andythenorth> yeah
07:04:35  <andythenorth> means things like duty-cycle have no gameplay effect
07:05:11  <andythenorth> a commuter train is built for constant rapid acceleration and braking
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07:05:47  <andythenorth> a drag freight locomotive is built for low speed service at maximum revs for hours at a time
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07:06:49  <andythenorth> using them inappropriately increases run costs and decreases reliability
07:06:57  <andythenorth> which are valid gameplay effects :P
07:07:20  <Elukka> in europe it's often the same locomotives pulling freight and passengers, sometimes commuter trains
07:07:44  <Pikka> indeed, and that's often the problem with representing "the real world" in openttd
07:08:08  <Rhamphoryncus> It'd really help if there was some in-game feedback on a train's ability to handle a hill.  Even just static information on the new vehicle window stating a ballpark max tonnage at the current grade setting
07:08:24  <Pikka> there is.  if it stops, it's too steep.
07:08:56  <Rhamphoryncus> No, not too steep.  There's only one steepness.  Not enough engines
07:09:16  <Pikka> the problem with representing the real world in openttd is that things are designed and built to do the job they're intended for.
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07:09:40  <Pikka> but the job they're intended for in real life is not necessarily the job they're intended for in openttd
07:10:00  <andythenorth> this remains a puzzle in BANDIT
07:10:09  <Pikka> for example, "realistic" MU lengths
07:10:25  <andythenorth> the trucks that irl are designed to have 25t of gravel carelessly dumped in them, then go up a muddy 1 in 10 slope....
07:10:29  <andythenorth> have no point in game
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07:10:33  <Pikka> yes
07:10:37  <Pikka> so don't put them in the game
07:10:54  <andythenorth> you may as well use the truck that is designed to carry potato crisps at 70mph on nice smooth highways
07:11:12  <Pikka> yep
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07:11:38  <andythenorth> unless I prevent that truck refitting to gravel :P
07:11:41  <Pikka> so either modify the game so the dump truck has a point, or limit the potato crisp truck, or...
07:11:47  <Pikka> it's all design
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07:14:37  <andythenorth> "modify the game" <- roadtypes :P
07:14:41  <Pikka> yes
07:14:46  <andythenorth> meh
07:15:20  <Pikka> roadtypes would make more varied roadvehicles interesting, like newairports would make more varied aircraft interesting.
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07:17:07  <andythenorth> but with roadtypes, what's to stop you building 'superawesome magnetic highway' everywhere?
07:17:55  <Pikka> cost, introduction date, having half a brain?
07:17:56  <Elukka> this ties into the much wider problem of having essentially infinite money a little ways into the game
07:18:29  <telanus> is there something one has todo to make openttd display Kanji on Windows XP (US)? My computer is setup to display most Asian / Foreign languages.
07:18:43  <Pikka> the time taken to upgrade a network?
07:18:51  <Elukka> the gameplay design doesn't work for the game as it currently is
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07:19:01  <Elukka> or rather, as it's currently played
07:19:24  <andythenorth> I did consider adjusting running costs according to cargo refit
07:19:36  <andythenorth> so e.g. hard-wearing bulk cargos cost more
07:20:04  <Rhamphoryncus> A much better calibrated inflation would help.. but that'd lead to either being behind the curve (in which case you're hooped) or being ahead of it (which becomes infinite money again).  What you'd need is some magic way of adapting payments to the conditions
07:20:22  <andythenorth> the money problem is 'meh'
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07:20:27  <Elukka> you'd need some kind of pseudorealistic financial system i think
07:20:27  <SpComb> progressive income tax
07:20:30  <Elukka> don't ask me how though :D
07:20:36  <Elukka> or rather, inspired by reality
07:20:39  <andythenorth> big companies make a lot of money
07:20:55  <Elukka> but they never have infinite money to do everything they'd like to
07:21:01  <Elukka> a company doesn't become trivial once it's big
07:21:06  <Elukka> trivial to run*
07:21:26  <Rhamphoryncus> That's because there's competition driving the price down
07:21:56  <Elukka> even if there isn't competition you don't get infinite money
07:21:57  <Rhamphoryncus> Offering the same service at a lower rate
07:22:16  <Rhamphoryncus> Only because the economy would crash
07:22:20  <Elukka> railroads historically and currently are often state monopolies
07:23:44  <andythenorth> money is only a gameplay problem because other goals are missing
07:24:20  <Rhamphoryncus> My gameplay goal is to a better network than openttdcoop.  It.. does not end well.
07:24:32  <SpComb> I wonder how it worked in the vanilla TTD
07:24:50  <SpComb> the game probably just ended by the time you got too much money
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07:25:11  <andythenorth> maps were smaller
07:25:19  <Elukka> i think it wasn't designed for the large scale sandbox gameplay openttd is typically used for
07:25:20  <andythenorth> it was hard
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07:25:45  <Elukka> openttd has the gameplay model of a different game that doesn't really fit
07:25:54  <Elukka> would be a hell of a job coming up with and implementing a new one of course
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07:27:56  <andythenorth> NoGo scripts will solve most of it
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07:30:01  <andythenorth> it would be interesting if you could be fired from your company
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07:30:13  <andythenorth> (including firing all players from a company on a coop game)
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07:54:43  <Nat_aS> LATE but, isn't that what happens when you run out of money?
07:54:49  <Nat_aS> and your company gets sold?
07:55:04  <Nat_aS> what other firing conditions would happen?
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07:55:49  <Nat_aS> corruption if you anger the regional inspector too much?
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09:06:52  <dihedral> good morning
09:09:53  <Markk> Hoi dihedral
09:10:46  <dihedral> a Markk!
09:10:55  <Markk> A wild Markk appears.
09:10:56  <Markk> :D
09:11:22  <dihedral> define breakpoint: a Markk in the source code to ....
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12:29:42  <krinn> a train facing the wrong side of a signal is stuck, do openttd have a reversedirection check for that or the train will die there waiting a signal it will never get ?
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12:30:19  <Eddi|zuHause> there is a waiting timeout, unless you disabled that
12:30:47  <Eddi|zuHause> "list_settings pf.wait"
12:31:03  <krinn> checking it thx Eddi|zuHause
12:31:08  <Eddi|zuHause> (255=disabled)
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12:31:28  <Eddi|zuHause> there might also be a related GUI setting, not sure
12:31:37  <Ammler> well, if disabled, it should not stand the wrong way
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12:33:24  <krinn> can i consider safe to let the train stays stuck for a while then ?
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12:33:48  <Ammler> I would check the setting :-)
12:34:01  <Eddi|zuHause> a stuck train should generally require the attention of the player...
12:34:02  <Ammler> it would just be strange, that the train stands the wrong way, if disabled
12:34:36  <krinn> it's set to 15 for oneway and my trains could get stuck because of oneway
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12:35:15  <Eddi|zuHause> that means one-way block signals, not one-way path signals
12:35:33  <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, not in my case: i run train from PBS->PBS and later when adding more i add oneway in between : if the train wasn't running the right direction, it could get stuck while i build the oneway signals
12:35:45  <Eddi|zuHause> the reverse side of a block signal should trigger immediate turnaround
12:36:27  <krinn> should maybe, mine is stuck for good now :P
12:36:42  <Ammler> if the train stands the wrong way on a signal, it is path
12:37:46  <Ammler> and then there is a seting "wait for free path" os something similar, isn't?
12:38:00  <krinn> that's it Ammler it says wait for free path
12:38:34  <krinn> this should solve itself?
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12:39:05  <Ammler> what is the time it waits for free path?
12:39:32  <krinn> i have pf.oneway=15 pf.pbs_path=30
12:39:41  <Ammler> but also as Eddi|zuHause said, if a train stands the wrong way, there is something "bad" there which needs attention
12:40:27  <krinn> there's not really something bad, i could create this case as i explain
12:40:29  <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: advanced settings->vehicles->trains->allow trains to turn around at signals
12:40:40  <Eddi|zuHause> or similar
12:40:50  <Ammler> pf.wait_for_pbs_path
12:41:08  <krinn>  pf.wait_for_pbs_path=30
12:41:42  <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i got the setting disable
12:41:55  <krinn> the turnaround at signal
12:42:03  <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: then that is your problem
12:42:05  <Ammler> just be sure to disable all or none :-)
12:42:29  <krinn> without it, it will remain then stuck for good ?
12:42:37  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
12:43:03  <krinn> hell, i was sure i would need a checkstucktrain function :(
12:43:09  <Ammler> newbies need to have a time there, pros can disable it :-P
12:44:09  <krinn> lol it unstuck itself, because wishing to service at depot it reversedirection
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12:44:37  <krinn> still it could get stuck for 150 days
12:44:50  <xiong>
12:46:53  <Ammler> xiong: good article
12:47:09  <xiong> Thank you, Ammler.
12:47:11  <krinn> yep, must be why i disable that settting
12:48:06  <krinn> now i wonder how i will get a vehicle direction :)
12:48:30  <xiong> It's a playstyle issue, like so much of the game. Work / don't work for me, etc.
12:49:21  <Ammler> I see no other useage as highlight issue for not disabling ti
12:49:25  <xiong> One such is "normal" reversing: the Difficulty setting: end of line only or also at stations.
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12:49:55  <krinn> i must not change settings, as i'm not allow to do this
12:50:22  <xiong> Lately I've been thinking of tinkering with my pathfinder penalties; I've been quite reluctant to do that since with every change, my experience diverges from the norm.
12:50:46  <xiong> But I play with breakdowns and am a big fan of forced depoting at stations.
12:51:19  <Ammler> better get used with the default values :-)
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12:51:55  <xiong> Why? Besides my general dislike of such tinkering?
12:52:17  <krinn> not been able to see where the loco is on a train doesn't help to see the train direction
12:52:27  <xiong> ?
12:52:42  <xiong> That's rarely been an issue for me, krinn.
12:52:59  <xiong> Change your liveries -- "company colors".
12:53:10  <krinn> xiong, it is for an ai
12:53:47  <xiong> There has to be a way of determining which way you are going.
12:54:34  <krinn> i know only one, make the vehicle running, check its state is VS_RUNNING, get its location, wait, get its location = now you get its direction
12:54:49  <krinn> but this won't help as you need it to move to check it
12:55:00  <xiong> Anyway, I'd take notice of any train with a speed of 0 and check to see how long it stays that way.
12:55:36  <krinn> but a waiting train at signal isn't a bad wait: it just wait its signal
12:55:59  <xiong> A train waiting for very long is always bad.
12:57:15  <xiong> You are upset, as many others are, by this automatic reversing. As you can see from the final section, I don't see it's a problem. Waiting is always an issue, the longer the wait the worse the issue. But reversing doesn't really change much; and not for the worse.
12:57:56  <krinn> i'm not upset, i have to deal with it, that's all
12:58:28  <xiong> If you have a train not moving, it's of interest although not always severe. If you have a train waiting behind another train also waiting, this is nearly always an indicator of a problem.
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12:59:39  <planetmaker> you can disable reversing of trains, krinn
12:59:43  <xiong> Look on the bright side: In trunk there is no sharing of track; so you can at least be confident that your AI trains are running on AI track. So, build good networks and you won't run into this sort of issue.
13:00:02  <planetmaker> one (or two) of the PF settings allow to set the wait time in front of red signals
13:00:22  <xiong> planetmaker, we went through that. He's writing an AI.
13:00:51  <planetmaker> Ok. I see. :-)
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13:01:04  <xiong> I've seen AIs build real dumbass networks. Their trains get stuck immediately. Avoid this!
13:01:09  <krinn> planetmaker, the most trouble i get is that api doesn't gave vehicle direction
13:02:03  <xiong> Do not allow your AI to build rail grades with poor signaling. Avoid loading track with too many trains, or underpowered trains.
13:02:46  <krinn> oh lol found it! The easiest solve would be : put signals, once done, recheck rail for trains and send them for servicing, should work
13:02:46  <xiong> Provide for depoting! You can't control whether breakdowns will be on or off.
13:03:43  * xiong watches krinn's clever trains crash
13:04:12  <krinn> ? servicing doesn't allow bypassing signal
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13:09:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r24053 /trunk/src/timetable_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23947) [FS#5111]: Crash when timetabling a maximum travel speed of 0.
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13:11:51  <Belugas> hello
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13:14:26  <krinn> hello Belugas
13:14:28  <Pikka> hello Belugas
13:16:02  <Pikka> D:
13:16:06  <Pikka> tiny buses are tiny
13:17:36  <Belugas> hi krinn hi krinn :)
13:18:14  <Pikka>
13:18:22  <Pikka> it looks kind of ridiculous next to eGRVTS
13:18:42  <Pikka> but on its own, compared to the road, houses and trains, it's about right.
13:18:49  <Pikka> don't think I'd have done it before extra zoom though. :P
13:22:51  <krinn> it's a bus for dwarfs ?
13:23:06  <Pikka> nope
13:23:18  <Pikka> it's a bus that's more in scale with the rest of the TTD world
13:24:59  <krinn> should appears like a moving dot then :P
13:27:12  <Ammler> Pikka: the extra zoom levels might be good for debug, but the normal zoom should still be the level where it should look nicest, shouldn't it?
13:27:46  <Pikka> tbh, everything looks way to small on a modern high-res monitor at normal zoom
13:28:06  <Pikka> the extra zoom levels are more like what TTD looked like 15 years ago.
13:28:19  <Ammler> :-) nice sight :-)
13:30:00  <Pinkbeast> Tiny bus: I eagerly await the accompanying PikkaRail rideable minature railway stock
13:30:24  <Pikka> in fact while working on UKRS2, it was really frustrating that I could spend hours getting all the shading and detailing on a vehicle just so, but once you get it into the game, at normal zoom at 1080p, it's just another blob.
13:31:00  <Pikka> Pinkbeast: here you go. :)
13:33:07  <Pinkbeast> Maybe my monitor's not so high-res or my eyesight better, but they don't look too blobular to me.
13:38:24  <planetmaker> hello Pikka & Ammler & Belugas :-)
13:39:20  <planetmaker> Pikka, start using 32bpp ;-)
13:39:39  <Pikka> you mean extra zoom sprites, I assume.
13:39:41  <Pikka> and no :)
13:39:50  <planetmaker> no, I didn't. But those, too
13:39:54  <Pikka> oh
13:40:01  <Pikka> well, still no. :)
13:40:09  <planetmaker> I didn't imply changing the drawing method (i.e. using models).
13:40:25  <Belugas> sir planetmaker!  goodday
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13:43:48  <planetmaker> Pikka, re-defining scale of vehicles?
13:44:09  <Pikka> well
13:44:12  <Pikka> drawing vehicles
13:44:18  <Pikka> no definition involved
13:44:24  <peter1138> x4!
13:44:46  <planetmaker> well... the scale of stuff is defined by the TTD vehicles
13:46:59  <Pikka> it's purely an aesthetic thing though
13:47:07  <Pikka> no gameplay effect
13:47:43  <planetmaker> with the same argument vehicles could be just plain boxes
13:47:55  <Pikka> yes
13:48:19  <planetmaker> Point is that one would want to use especially more than one road vehicle newgrf often
13:49:18  <planetmaker> anyway, nvm
13:49:23  <Pikka> :)
14:00:05  <peter1138> loadavg 104.90
14:00:06  <peter1138> well
14:01:14  <peter1138> mental-note, don't ask openvas to scan a /24
14:01:20  <peter1138> it WILL open 256 processes...
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14:08:25  <Pikka> planetmaker: weren't you complaining a couple of days ago at how much OpenTTD was being held back by maintaining compatibility to TTD? :P
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14:23:14  <xiong> There is no avoiding the tradeoff between appearance and overall layout. Extra zoom is great and I like it but I often zoom way out, too. Important to have a wide range available.
14:24:53  <xiong> At bottom, I have to say that I'm generally satisfied with the appearance of vehicles. I'm much less pleased, for example, with town buildings. I play buses and trucks and I nearly always leave town off.
14:26:48  <xiong> If you hunger to inject more realism into the game, figure out a better grade system. It's silly to have trains run flat for miles, then jump a whole level in one tile. Real roads spend huge quantities of engineering dollar to spread changes in altitude over the longest possible distance.
14:28:59  <xiong> While you're at it, think about rail curvature. I'm not asking for superelevation, you know. But the eighth-turn corners are funky. Even if we didn't actually get a more realistic metric than this game-of-life style, it would be better to see radius.
14:29:35  <xiong> It might be a nice project to see rails that can knight's move.
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14:29:59  <xiong> But then, we still don't have N-S and E-W bridges!
14:30:49  <xiong> Or for that matter, roads. I was thinking earlier today how nice it would be to have roads in eight directions... and flatiron buildings in town.
14:31:37  <xiong> Anyway, don't worry about blobby engines.
14:34:48  <Pinkbeast> Oh, you're the ziggurat guy! All becomes clear now.
14:39:55  <xiong> Oh, that's good. Still murky on my end.
14:40:30  <xiong> I've been working all night; time for sleep. See you.
14:45:34  <Eddi|zuHause> what's a ziggurat?
14:48:58  <Pinkbeast> - I _thought_ his tone sounded familiar.
14:49:43  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's him
14:50:56  <Pinkbeast> Well, Mr P1SIM is going to do all that stuff any year now. They should get in touch. :-)
14:54:27  <Eddi|zuHause> a few of the "unhelpful" sentences there sound familiar :p
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15:51:52  <Belugas> boy does he like to talk
15:52:03  <Belugas> and say nothing, actually...
15:52:20  <Belugas> pretty sure he likes words just for words
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16:08:20  <Cmoud94> Hi, is there anyone who can help me with this problem? 4>..\src\music\dmusic.cpp(25): fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'dmusici.h': No such file or directory ========== Build: 3 succeeded, 1 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== BTW: i have MSVC 2010.
16:10:44  <Ammler> looks like a typo
16:11:24  <andythenorth> hmm
16:11:31  * andythenorth reads the post in question
16:11:34  <Ammler> Cmoud94: which version do you try to build
16:11:51  <Cmoud94> 1.1.5
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16:15:55  * andythenorth thinks xiong is right wrt ziggurat
16:16:26  * andythenorth is surprised that so many people have replied at such length to tell him he's wrong
16:16:59  <Rubidium> Cmoud94: looks like you didn't install the right version of directx, or you haven't correctly configured the search paths of the compiler
16:17:34  <michi_cc> Cmoud94:
16:18:39  <Cmoud94> ok thanks :) i'll try it
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16:37:11  * andythenorth ponders what to do what to do
16:38:19  <Pinkbeast> More crane tanks! :-)
16:38:36  <andythenorth> more than none?
16:39:21  <andythenorth> :)
16:39:28  <Pinkbeast> Pretty sure you had one being planned last time we spoke.
16:39:38  <andythenorth> yup
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16:57:45  <Scuddles> banker tank cranes with dual power electric-steam
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17:13:02  <Ammler> he, very cool that is, if you don't have any baseset installed, openttd is still able to download opengfx :-)
17:15:01  <planetmaker> yes, that's new and one of the great additions in 1.2
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17:15:22  <planetmaker> (and less support hassle) :-P
17:15:23  <planetmaker> quak
17:15:34  <andythenorth> quake
17:18:30  <frosch123> moin :)
17:20:08  <Ammler> planetmaker: the fonts are way to big in that gui, but well, it worked
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17:20:31  <andythenorth> faster ships? :P
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17:36:46  <Ammler> planetmaker: the tutorial is very nice
17:37:04  <Ammler> or maybe credits go rather to Zuu :-)
17:37:40  <Ammler> openttd just needs a tutuorial for how to start the tutorial :-P
17:39:03  <planetmaker> yes, credits do not go to me. Despite intention I didn't do anything yet
17:39:22  <planetmaker> It's afaik exclusively Zuu's excellent work
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18:27:47  <Alberth> hi hi
18:30:37  <FLHerne> hi hi hi
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18:43:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24054 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
18:43:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:43:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by Wowanxm
18:43:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 changes by habell
18:43:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 45 changes by Parastais
18:43:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 46 changes by Stabilitronas
18:43:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 16 changes by laurentalp
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18:56:24  <Terkhen> hello
19:02:13  <Alberth> hello :)
19:04:25  <FLHerne> hello
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19:10:46  <Alberth> hi Herr Zuu
19:11:21  <Zuu> Hello Alberth
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19:15:53  <Wolf01> evenink
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19:17:07  <drac_boy> hi
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19:25:51  <LordAro> evening all
19:26:04  <LordAro> i am currently speaking to you from my new computer :)
19:26:16  <Eddi|zuHause> one evening for everybody? are there that many?
19:26:32  <LordAro> ;P
19:26:44  <Zuu> LordAro: Hope it will speedup your development of patches and user content :-)
19:27:01  <LordAro> i do hope so - compiling certainly :)
19:27:13  <Zuu> My last computer improved compile speed by a factor of about 5.
19:27:24  <Zuu> Its really insan.
19:27:47  <LordAro> anyway, since i just shoved the old harddrive into the new one and booted from it, it has understandably cuased some havoc
19:28:03  <Eddi|zuHause> make -j12 can do wonders to compile time :p
19:28:13  <LordAro> so, my question: debian, mint, ubuntu or something else?
19:28:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it was more like factor 12 for me
19:28:39  <Eddi|zuHause> especially video conversion was "fun" after that :)
19:29:06  <Eddi|zuHause> 6 times the number of cores, and each core twice as fast as the old one :)
19:30:13  <Eddi|zuHause> ok... something severely broke my sprite offsets, and i have no idea what...
19:30:47  <Alberth> LordAro: debian
19:31:18  <Alberth> LordAro: although I am a RPM user :)
19:31:18  <LordAro> hypocrite :P
19:31:18  <Zuu> Whenever I install Linux, I usually install Debian.
19:31:31  <Zuu> Lately without X though.
19:31:51  <Alberth> vim runs quite well without X :p
19:31:54  <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, you ? :)
19:32:16  <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: i reverted my changes, but it's still happening
19:32:21  <Zuu> Alberth: Sure and LAMP too
19:32:26  <Eddi|zuHause> did something in openttd change?
19:32:53  <Alberth> yes, we got new strings less than an hour ago
19:32:56  <LordAro> very well, i shall aim for debian
19:33:14  <LordAro> i was going to switch away from ubuntu anyway
19:33:24  <krinn> LordAro, it's clue you should aim at ubuntu or mint
19:33:39  <Alberth> LordAro: I don't know about mint, but ubuntu is hazardous, I think
19:33:57  <Zuu> The downside with Debian is that they are a bit slow on pushing out new versions of end-user applications. At least when you run stable.
19:34:02  <Alberth> and debian is very very safe :)
19:35:09  <krinn> choice is simpe, if it's for your "i will play and broke everything because it's my desktop computer and i want test everything", debian is a bad choice, else debian is really a nice distro
19:35:19  <Zuu> For running a web server it is really good. For using it as desktop, you might want to get the latest applications quicker.
19:35:45  <Alberth> like using fedora :p
19:35:58  * Alberth updates to the new kde, only 324MB :p
19:36:42  <LordAro> damn indecision :P
19:36:57  <krinn> why you wish change at first ?
19:37:08  <Alberth> LordAro: just pick one, try it for some time, then try another one
19:37:52  <LordAro> switching distros akes time
19:37:57  <krinn> i have the same distro since 2002 :)
19:38:04  <LordAro> also messes up my home dir
19:38:08  <Zuu> Why not just use Windows - there is just one single choise and you are stuck with even if you don't like some part of it. :-D
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19:38:28  <Alberth> LordAro: install /home at a separate partition
19:38:47  <LordAro> (because i'm not clever enough to put my home dir on a separate partition ;) )
19:39:00  * LordAro = too slow
19:39:07  * Zuu hands LordAro a Linux for dumies book
19:39:22  <Alberth> you learn as you find you messed up the previous time :)
19:40:34  * Eddi|zuHause wants kernel 3.3, but no rpms yet...
19:41:26  <krinn> it's easy to have your /home on a separate partition, and for every distro it should take you, bah, let's says, 15 minutes of reading to learn howto : and this would have saved you for years, dunno how you didn't spent 15 minutes of your time to saved your home
19:42:42  <Alberth> windows habit, clickerdiclick :p
19:43:05  <Eddi|zuHause> my distribution offered that as default...
19:43:26  * Alberth also lived without /home for quite some time, until he needed an extra /boot partition :)
19:43:30  <Zuu> My problem with Linux desktop is that I'm never satisfied with the window manager and keeps trying new ones.
19:43:58  <krinn> Zuu, the problem is that you have choice to use more than just 1 :)
19:44:03  <Zuu> Not really because they are very bad, but because there is a new one to try out which might be better.
19:44:04  <frosch123> did you try tiling ones?
19:44:18  <Zuu> Yep
19:44:24  <Zuu> I've used wmii quite a bit.
19:44:36  <Alberth> did you try  twm? :p
19:44:36  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the sense of that?
19:44:47  <frosch123> i always wanted to try them. but it always looked so much work to set them up :)
19:45:14  <LordAro> krinn: which distro do you have?
19:45:28  <frosch123> he has gentoo
19:45:28  <Zuu> The problem with wmii is that its floating model was very limited. And some programs don't work well in tiling mode.
19:45:42  <krinn> yep gentoo
19:46:23  <frosch123> gentoo is the distribution with the best logo :)
19:46:48  <krinn> the cow or the pacman ?
19:46:56  <frosch123> larry
19:47:05  <Zuu> Also a very good installation manual.
19:47:27  <frosch123> what pacman?
19:47:37  <frosch123> or do you mean the somewhat abstract cow head?
19:47:41  <krinn> i'll show you wait a sec
19:47:55  <krinn>
19:48:10  <frosch123> yeah, that's what i mean with abstracted cow head
19:48:25  <krinn> this is actually larry
19:48:26  <Eddi|zuHause> why does my self-compiled openttd.grf differ from the official one?
19:48:47  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: because you are using a newer grfcodec
19:49:02  <frosch123> than the one when openttd.grf was last updated
19:49:14  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, ok...
19:49:23  <LordAro> so, in summary, which distro would you recommend i get? (first ;) )
19:49:29  <Eddi|zuHause> now it's bothering me with conflicts on every update
19:49:35  <Eddi|zuHause> which is somewhat annoying
19:49:50  <frosch123> LordAro: that always depends on your usecase :)
19:50:00  <LordAro> :P
19:50:15  <frosch123> but i think if you can get a hang of gentoo, you can deal with every other distro afterwards
19:50:36  <frosch123> though some of them might annoy you
19:50:41  <Alberth> use a different one each day of the week :)
19:50:54  <Zuu> Having used Gentoo is not something I regret, but moving on from it was a good choise as it took too much of my time to maintain it.
19:51:14  <LordAro> i dunno, i think i'd like to stay with the .deb 'format' :)
19:51:29  <frosch123> Zuu: yup :) same here
19:52:45  <krinn> my server use gentoo, and execpt some few maintenance for security, it run alone for months without even me having a look at it
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19:53:04  <LordAro> oh, and i now have 8GB of RAM, should i get the amd64 versions of linux?
19:53:32  <frosch123> you should probably get the amd64 version if you have a amd64 cpu :p
19:53:48  <krinn> kernel can do pae, so your 8GB is out of the decision
19:54:27  <frosch123> anyway, try to get a distro with uses either pure 32bit or 64bit
19:54:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i found that everything uses more ram on my new computer, and i suppose 64bit is the reason
19:54:36  <frosch123> no weird lib / lib64 crap
19:54:36  <LordAro> fair points, but i think i originally got the i386 versions because that's what was on the cd :)
19:55:06  <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, 64bits memory access are also slower
19:55:15  <Zuu> If you want to spend time on using your computer to do creative things like eg. contributing to OpenTTD, I would recommend debian over gentoo. But if you want to learn gentoo or how to manually install linux, pick gentoo.
19:55:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean: my old computer had 1GB ram and 2GB swap and ran fine. my new computer has 4GB ram, and runs out of memory all the time
19:56:11  <Eddi|zuHause> doing basically the same stuff i always did
19:56:13  <Alberth> Zuu: nah, install FreeBSD, or OpenBSD if you dare :)
19:56:15  <krinn> never been oom with 3G
19:56:51  <Zuu> Oh, and for debian, I always go with the minimal cd or whatever they call it which just downloads what you pick of the internet rather than first downloading a huge iso with old programs and then updating them after install.
19:57:36  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: gnome-shell is doing a great job being fatter than firefox
19:57:52  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i use neither
19:58:09  <Alberth> you should have room to spare then :)
19:58:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: it was even same KDE version, and same wine games
19:58:54  <frosch123> Alberth: never use a non-gnu system :)
19:59:31  <frosch123> the gnu toolchain is just so much stronger
20:00:24  <LordAro> so, i shall get a amd64 version of debian, ok? :P
20:00:25  <Zuu> Thanksfully, you can get some of its strange in Windows.
20:00:53  <Eddi|zuHause> mingw-get somehow crashes for me
20:01:20  <Eddi|zuHause> on multiple systems lately
20:01:52  <Alberth> "windows has detected an attempt to install a foreign system, we will let it crash now"
20:02:00  <krinn> i'm not sure you will enjoy passing from ubuntu to a debian
20:02:27  <FLHerne> Can I anti-recommend Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Lubuntu etc?
20:02:57  <krinn> you should try a mint, more close to ubuntu experience i think
20:03:24  <andythenorth> can I recommend an OS X?
20:03:24  <andythenorth> t
20:03:36  <andythenorth> the package management is crappy, but the rest works
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20:03:41  <andythenorth> and you can lick the pixels :P
20:04:36  <krinn> don't you need 16G to run itunes ? :)
20:05:00  <FLHerne> I've been trying to get away from _ubuntu since both 11.04 and 11.10 updates caused multiple problems on quite a wide range of machines...
20:05:02  <andythenorth> and that's a problem because....? :P
20:05:37  <LordAro> mint or debian? you have around 30 mins to decide while i eat :P
20:05:47  <andythenorth> also, OS X has an unsupported, mostly unmaintained release of ottd, what more can you want?
20:06:37  <krinn> i dunno, paying it 99c maybe ?
20:06:44  <FLHerne> OS7 is faster :P
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20:07:20  <FLHerne> Even 9.1 was OK, but OSX is just bloated
20:07:22  <andythenorth> faster at crashing
20:07:46  * krinn getting popcorn waiting for the motorola/intel match
20:08:22  <FLHerne> Not unless you do something stupid...
20:08:37  <FLHerne> which does of course include using it :P
20:08:40  <andythenorth> the one where steve jobs tried to provide ever larger reality distortion field wrt PPC?  Whilst negotiating to switch to intel :P
20:09:07  <FLHerne> PPC is better :-D
20:09:20  <Alberth> but somewhat dead :p
20:10:05  <FLHerne> Not here :P
20:10:35  <krinn> FLHerne, still got the one mouse button ?
20:10:45  <FLHerne> Depends.
20:10:56  * Zuu got an item of "The joy of tech" with plenty of PPC/Intel jokes.
20:11:12  <FLHerne> All the laptops do, and the old Mac.
20:12:25  <FLHerne> The PowerMacs have USB, and the newer laptops get USB mice when I get fed up of dropping things in OTTD every time I need to move the map :-(
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20:14:58  <FLHerne> Has anyone ever seen a multi-button ADB mouse? I never managed to get one...
20:15:42  * drac_boy points FLHerne to the one big old company that starts with a K
20:15:51  <krinn> i really enjoy the smoke on trains, specially with early engine, lol, you can feel its pain when climbing full by looking at the smoke
20:17:47  <Alberth> add an engine :)
20:18:08  <krinn> i like seeing them suffering :)
20:21:31  <krinn> lol add an engine, found a "bug"
20:23:17  <krinn> engine doing 88mph + engine doing 80mph you'll end at 80mph max, that's not really what should it do: both engine help to start when pulling, but once running fast, the faster engine should be able to reach its own max speed
20:23:48  <Rhamphoryncus> krinn: speed limits in real life are a lot more complicated than just power
20:24:03  <drac_boy> krinn you forgot that theres a limit in drivetrains
20:24:08  <Rhamphoryncus> Track wear is a big one
20:24:17  <drac_boy> especially ever more when its hydraulic .. or steam .. etc
20:24:48  <krinn> if you just pull the loco as a wagon, the train shouldn't be hold like that
20:25:10  <Zuu> that would only make sense with wagon speed limits = off
20:25:10  <krinn> and i'm not speaking about making a 80km/h loco running at 400km/h, just 8km/h more
20:25:28  <frosch123> krinn: the maximum speed is not the maximum speed a engine can reach considering its power, but the fastest speed which it is considered to go without falling apart at some point
20:25:40  <frosch123> they do not driver faster downhill either
20:27:21  <Alberth> until someone implements derailing if you make a sharp turn at the bottom, perhaps :p
20:29:40  <Rhamphoryncus> You'd need something like the town roads repair to randomly block damaged rails
20:31:02  <Rhamphoryncus> bottom line: there's very good reasons for maximum speed, none of them have to do with power :)
20:31:10  <Wolf01> don't give me other ideas please :D
20:32:00  <frosch123> Rhamphoryncus: activate the big ufo :p
20:33:25  <Eddi|zuHause> the big ufo would be much less annoying if it didn't always land on the same spot
20:33:54  <Alberth> don't rebuild the tracks like they were :p
20:34:15  <andythenorth> FLHerne: why do you need more than one mouse button :o
20:35:04  * Rubidium ponders... lets put a Bugatti Veyron in front of a truck. I'd love to see that combination going much faster than 95 km/h (where the truck's speed limiter kicks in)
20:35:46  <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: I'd love to see the bugatti veyron struggle to pull that truck ;)
20:36:06  <frosch123> Rubidium: thy putting a leopard II in front of the truck
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20:36:20  * krinn love to see that bugatti veryon running at 2km/h because you add a cycle to it
20:36:21  <frosch123> it is said to do 120 km/h
20:36:26  <frosch123> (te unknown)
20:36:43  <Eddi|zuHause> TE of such a vehicle is insane :p
20:36:59  <Eddi|zuHause> if you step on the brakes, you stop pretty much instantly :p
20:36:59  <Rubidium> but... the Veyron has more HP than a regular truck has
20:37:12  <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, works also with a wall :)
20:37:14  <Eddi|zuHause> (don't do that if there's a car following you.
20:37:37  <Eddi|zuHause> it literally disappears underneath you)
20:37:41  <Alberth> krinn: leopards don't care about walls
20:38:06  <Eddi|zuHause> "der klÃŒgere gibt nach" :p
20:38:08  <frosch123> do you also type on virtual leopards?
20:38:26  <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: If you want that just chain up the truck behind a jet car.  Plenty of HP there ;)
20:38:32  <Eddi|zuHause> no, only on wireless leopards
20:38:43  <Rhamphoryncus> (The truck won't be happy with the afterburner kicks in)
20:38:51  <frosch123> how long last the batteries of your leopard then?
20:38:57  <krinn> lol but the truck driver will
20:39:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never seen them run out yet
20:39:23  <Eddi|zuHause> for the mouse, a couple of months
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20:46:09  <Djohaal> CHOO CHOOS Y U NO FASTER?!
20:46:34  <__ln__> english only
20:48:19  <Rhamphoryncus> I was going to joke about putting a jet truck behind the bugatti veyron but google sucks and I haven't come up with any credible information on one
20:48:40  <andythenorth> roadtypes!
20:48:40  <michi_cc> Whatever you do with your Veyron, plan your tank stops beforehand :p You need one every 15 minutes with full throttle.
20:48:53  <rane> is quantity of sea/lakes same as sea level
20:49:20  <krinn> Rhamphoryncus,
20:49:34  <Rhamphoryncus> krinn: youtube videos != credible data
20:49:46  <Rhamphoryncus> michi_cc: make the truck a tanker truck :D
20:50:51  <frosch123> michi_cc: not when it is pulling the tank truck :p
20:50:59  <Rhamphoryncus> And you managed to find a video I can't play.  Been a while since I've seen one of those.
20:51:36  <krinn> you may not seen that one too so, not that bad, that guy is crazy
20:52:26  <Rhamphoryncus> crazy is one word
20:54:04  <Rhamphoryncus> looks more like one of these, which is not terribly exciting:
20:55:50  <frosch123> <- you mean that one?
20:56:05  <krinn> :) new bettle
20:56:34  <frosch123> there is a lot of blablab in front, which can be summarised iirc by: "the driver misses the flower that came with the car"
20:59:16  <planetmaker> LordAro: <-- you could write a patch :-)
20:59:27  <LordAro> :P
20:59:52  <LordAro> i could, but there are more knowledgeable people on the subject
20:59:59  <LordAro> and also i'm not so good with the words :)
21:02:33  <rane> generating an interesting map is hard
21:04:37  <frosch123> hmm... remindes me. andythenorth: are the big logging trucks in heqs with trailers suitable to transport stuff downhill?
21:04:49  <andythenorth> I think so :)
21:04:54  <frosch123> or would they have to drive backwards?
21:05:36  <frosch123> well, they look as if they could pull heavy stuff. but i am not sure about their brakes
21:06:49  *** krinn [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:09:01  <Rhamphoryncus> rane: aye.  We need a new map generator.  One that's bettererer ;)
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21:13:14  <drac_boy> heh
21:15:03  <Rhamphoryncus> ererererer
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21:17:59  <Zuu> krinn: I've now ported your code to SuperLib. Now I only need to write some code that test your function to ensure that it still works and I haven't broken anything. :-)
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21:18:36  <Zuu> I can't see in your implementation that you check to ensure that tilefrom and tileto are adjacent.
21:19:06  <Zuu> Nor that they are adjacent on the 4 main directions.
21:20:05  <krinn> i don't check if they are yep
21:21:33  <krinn> you only need to check tilefrom & tileto
21:21:36  <Zuu> In the switch-block, I've added a default statement to return false if the direction between the tiles is not one of the 4 main directions (or if the tiles aren't adjacent)
21:22:14  <krinn> this cannot exist
21:22:21  <Zuu> Code:
21:23:12  <krinn> Zuu: tiles can only be adjacent because i only check against adjacent direction
21:23:26  <krinn> but you are right : you must check that tileto and tilefrom are adjacent at first
21:24:29  <Zuu> You could add a function and say that it is a pre-condition for calling the function. But if not, I would add a check within the function like I did.
21:25:18  <Zuu> first "function" => "comment" :-)
21:25:50  <krinn> let's says after "Check tile ownership"
21:26:01  <krinn> you add a "Check tile are adjacent" and it's done
21:26:24  <Zuu> I_SuperLib_Direction.GetDirectionToAdjacentTile will return an invalid direction if the tiles aren't adjacent.
21:27:53  <krinn> then just return if "direction == invalid direction"
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21:29:10  <krinn> i can send you also some code i use to check my rails are all connect and that from point X i could reach point Y
21:29:20  <krinn> that's why i've done this thing at first
21:30:13  <Zuu> Checking for invalid direction happens down in the default part of the swiitch. Though if you expect most calls to the function to be tiles that arn't separate, adding a specific if-statement for this case could save a few opcodes.
21:30:43  <krinn> the function expect you are comparing two adjacent tiles
21:31:16  <krinn> so if direction == invalid direction you can just end the function as this mean fromTile and toTile weren't at first
21:31:38  <krinn> 	local direction = _SuperLib_Direction.GetDirectionToAdjacentTile(fromTile, toTile);
21:31:59  <krinn> if (direction == _SuperLib.yourinvalidstate) return;
21:32:58  <Zuu> if(!_SuperLib_Direction.IsMainDir(direction)) return false; // <--- will also catch the diagonal cases :-)
21:33:26  <krinn> look here why it is suppose to work like this :
21:33:45  <krinn> to goes from 0,0 to -1,-1 you MUST pass by -1,0 or 0,-1
21:33:54  <krinn> and the MUST pass are adjacents
21:34:54  <krinn> as you see, there's no diagonal case :)
21:34:56  <Zuu> Hehe, I made that image :-)
21:35:02  <krinn> lol i know ^^
21:35:10  <krinn> i have it link in my browser
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21:35:38  <Zuu> Yep, I could guess that it is a pre condition. It was just not clearly labeled and I wanted to point that out for you in case it could cause you trouble.
21:35:38  <krinn> saved me zillions times from head pain
21:36:12  <krinn> it's a function to check if you can stepup to another tile using rail
21:36:23  <Zuu> As you clearly are aware of it, I think we are done with the discussion?
21:36:35  <krinn> to stepup to a diagnoal non adjacent tile, you will then must step to adjacents tiles before
21:36:47  <krinn> yep, looks all fine for me
21:37:02  <krinn> i could provide you or show you my code using it
21:37:40  <krinn> it's a function that need tileto and tilefrom and walk the tiles to reach tilefrom to confirm your train can reach it
21:38:11  <rane> anyone have an example openttd.cfg how to configure newgrfs for a dedicated server?
21:38:14  <Zuu> I guess I could grep for it in DictatorAI and modify it to use my code to test it. At least for the propper usage :-)
21:38:37  <krinn> Zuu, yep look at line 1086 here :
21:38:41  <Zuu> Something I will save for tomorrow.
21:38:51  <andythenorth> frosch123: they have engine brakes (retarder), and truck/trailer brakes which are water cooled.  There's a large water tank in the headache rack
21:38:59  <andythenorth> I'm trying to find a video :P
21:39:56  <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: truck racing?
21:40:14  <Rhamphoryncus> nm
21:40:44  <andythenorth>
21:40:44  <andythenorth>
21:42:03  <krinn> andythenorth, the 2nd vid, i'm pretty sure the sign says : "don't fucking pass on me you're too fat !"
21:42:28  <frosch123> ok, the last video looks like a ottd slope :)
21:42:49  <rane> 10:28<kais58>anyone know how to setup newgrfs for a dedicated server?
21:42:51  <rane> 10:29<V453000>create a savegame in single player and then load the savegame on the server
21:42:53  <rane> really?
21:42:54  <andythenorth> bad quality, steeper slope
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21:44:09  <frosch123> :)
21:44:36  <krinn> some men got balls
21:44:52  <krinn> or they are just insane ?
21:46:59  <frosch123> or poor
21:47:32  <andythenorth> not that poor :P
21:47:34  <krinn> still insane if you poor to bet on your truck (something that cost huge)
21:48:28  <andythenorth> the wood doesn't weigh that much
21:48:32  <andythenorth> only 100t or so
21:48:43  <andythenorth> check out the loaders they use
21:48:49  <krinn> the bridge doesn't look strong
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21:53:42  <Wolf01> 'night
21:53:45  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:54:30  <andythenorth> good night
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22:05:08  <drac_boy> hi chris :)
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22:14:57  <Chris_Booth> hi
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22:17:11  <frosch123> night
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22:17:19  <drac_boy> anything new chris?
22:17:29  <drac_boy> or shall I say chris_booth? :)
22:17:58  <Chris_Booth> lol nothing new in the world of chis
22:18:01  <Chris_Booth> chris
22:18:12  <Chris_Booth> I am still trying to be the most random person ever
22:18:15  <Chris_Booth> and winning at it
22:19:10  <Chris_Booth> anything new drac_boy?
22:19:13  <drac_boy> :p
22:19:30  <drac_boy> some hardware issues, starting supper soon, looking at a few websites
22:19:34  <drac_boy> nothing else much
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23:05:45  <Terkhen> good night
23:06:33  <drac_boy> bye Terkhen
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