Log for #openttd on 22nd March 2012:
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02:10:56  <drac_boy> hi
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08:19:03  <dihedral> Sacro, yep
08:19:07  <dihedral> at least i am now
08:19:11  <dihedral> what can i do for you?
08:19:51  <dihedral> let me guess - a bot that takes care of minimum active clients? :-D
08:20:03  <dihedral> that bot is called openttd ^^
08:24:53  <Scuddles> peter1138
08:26:37  <peter1138> Scuddles
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08:34:10  <Scuddles> oh
08:34:53  <Scuddles> You are a badger and a recurvirostra
08:34:56  <Scuddles>
08:38:29  <Rhamphoryncus> gee, why does the exit of my drop station work so much better than the exit of my pickup station x_x
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08:57:09  <MNIM>
08:57:13  <MNIM> "After they fixed a minor problem with the wings falling off..."
08:57:22  <MNIM> minor indeed
09:06:53  <planetmaker> Sacro: [00:05:00] I want people to be able to manually pause/unpuase, and it to auto-pause when nobody is in <-- OpenTTD's min_active_clients is your friend there
09:09:18  <welshdragon> he was using AutopIlot ;)
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09:17:32  <Ammler> welshdragon: the time, where ap needed to manage pause mode is long time gone
09:17:56  <Ammler> I guess, around 0.6 :-)
09:18:11  <welshdragon> oh, i see
09:18:28  <Ammler> just set that to -1
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09:19:16  <Ammler> it could be also buggy in the meantime since we don't use it anymore
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09:27:15  <planetmaker> in any case it works well with OpenTTD's own means. And ap+ is a wrapper around that anyway
09:30:32  <__ln__>
09:39:26  <Rhamphoryncus> High speed freight?  Totally unrealistic :P
09:40:25  <V453000> realism! <3
09:41:26  <MNIM> considering the euroshuttle through the channel tunnel already is a high-speed freight train
09:41:55  <MNIM> not that unrealistic.
09:42:59  <MNIM> and on long-range routes it should be massively cheaper than transport by air, it should be able to take quite a bite of air transport's piece of cake.
09:44:56  <MNIM> and in western european countries, where there's far more railway stations than airports, coverage should be far denser
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09:46:38  <V453000> the sprite looks great __ln__ :)
09:46:43  <V453000> Pikka being Pikka
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09:47:43  <Rhamphoryncus> bah :)
09:52:38  <Scuddles> whatsprite?
09:52:45  <Scuddles> btw pruplethingz is a butt
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10:05:32  <ffpp> hello
10:06:30  <ffpp> what is a good way to provide a binary build ? I compiled with prefix-dir and did a `make install` after compilation, is it enough to just package that install dir and upload it ?
10:10:53  <dihedral> i thought it was enough to run make and package one certain folder
10:12:07  <planetmaker> ffpp: if you want to distribute a custom openttd binary always use 'make bundle'
10:12:35  <planetmaker> that way you make sure that you have all files which you need to ship, also as required by the license.
10:13:09  <ffpp> so the make install step is not necessary
10:13:36  <planetmaker> using 'make install' to create a distribution bundle would be an... awkward method. It's not necessary
10:13:45  <planetmaker> Nor do I know any makefile where that is necessary
10:14:08  <ffpp> ah ok, build was still going on, I tried make bundle and see now where everyone gets his distribution version from ;)
10:14:41  <planetmaker> you could use straight away actually make bundle_zip
10:14:50  <planetmaker> then you're done to ship it w/o any worry
10:15:06  <planetmaker> just mind that you need to provide source for modified binaries, too
10:15:40  <ffpp> the bundle is supposed to go alongside my own patch, but in to different files available through the same forum topic
10:16:37  <ffpp> I wanted to provide the build additionally for playtesting
10:17:08  <planetmaker> yeah. Need not be in the same zip or so. Just the same thread, or linked in the same posting as the binary
10:17:30  <planetmaker> best provide one big patch for a binary next to the step-by-step patches which are more suitable for development
10:18:02  <planetmaker> with one big patch others can create it easily for other platforms, too
10:18:12  <ffpp> yes, I still need to break the patch up in smaller files
10:18:26  <planetmaker> well. That is good for reviewing and development
10:18:33  <planetmaker> For building one big patch is better ;-)
10:18:37  <planetmaker> Different needs there
10:18:38  <ffpp> I'm not sure if this will work because of interdependencies between the source files
10:18:51  <planetmaker> Splitting is manual work usually
10:19:46  <planetmaker> And yes, it often can be split. But it means that some lines need be re-written as different consecutive patches will depend on another
10:20:19  <ffpp> oh, I thought the smaller patches needed to compile indepently from each other
10:20:34  <planetmaker> well. Yes and no
10:21:11  <planetmaker> if you have a queue of patches p1, p2, p3, p4 and they are ordered, then p1 must compile, p1+p2 as well as p1+p2+p3 and p1+p2+p3+p4
10:21:40  <planetmaker> thus each patch doesn't break compilation when applied in the correct order
10:21:52  <planetmaker> but applying p3 alone need not make sense
10:21:53  <ffpp> ah, that makes things easier
10:22:14  <planetmaker> think of it as consecutive dev steps
10:22:32  <planetmaker> Each single step must not break it
10:22:40  <ffpp> so far I created patches by just redirecting the output of svn diff, I could do this by only svn-adding a batch source files and diffing from there
10:22:40  <planetmaker> But of course you can't make the 2nd step before the 1st
10:22:46  <dihedral> ffpp, what does your patch do?
10:22:50  <ffpp> good :)
10:23:02  <planetmaker> ffpp: dealing with a stack of patches is FAR easier with mercurial or git
10:23:08  <ffpp> dihedral: the template based train replacement:
10:23:11  <planetmaker> They're made to handle this. While svn isn't
10:23:31  <Ammler> well, quilt
10:23:35  <planetmaker> urgs
10:23:44  <ffpp> I wanted to look into git anyways since I read that it is far more sophisticated than svn
10:24:06  * planetmaker would recommend hg though ;-)
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10:25:20  <dihedral> not much of a difference between the two - they are quite similar, hg and git
10:25:24  <ffpp> I'll take a glimpse at both
10:25:53  <planetmaker> dihedral: the difference is the core of the programmes and the way they store stuff
10:26:35  <planetmaker> hg is way more modular than git in that respect.
10:26:37  <dihedral> iirc the difference is not too huge
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10:31:41  <Ammler> well, does git have patch queue support in the meantime?
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10:32:51  <Ammler> not that it is mandatory though :-)
10:33:10  <planetmaker> quite helpful, though
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10:36:50  <Rhamphoryncus> THey both have patch queues and rebasing
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12:23:46  <peter1138> Scuddles is a Scuddles
12:24:27  <MNIM> scuddles cuddles mister tuddles.
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12:34:05  <Scuddles> petern is an avocado
12:34:19  <Scuddles> and pikka is a bum
12:36:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still always thingking of Skittles
12:37:12  <planetmaker> I'm thinking of random noise
12:38:25  <Scuddles> I'm thinking of a ridiculous vehicle to draw for ukrs2
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12:42:51  <Pikka> the moral of this is, of course, "beware of thinking".  because thinking is... all in the mind, you know.
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12:45:44  <Scuddles> kick, punch, it's all in the mind
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14:54:32  <Scuddles> openttd should have gorillian dollars as a currency
14:56:23  <planetmaker> please increase your signal to noise ratio to at least 50%. You're at 0% now, Scuddles
14:56:42  <planetmaker> I've not seen a single on-topic line by you
14:57:06  <planetmaker> off-topic is on-topic in #tycoon
14:58:26  <Scuddles> such a scam
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14:59:38  <planetmaker> @calc 24 * 3600
14:59:38  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 86400
15:01:22  <planetmaker> the thinly veiled thread I just made, promise, is not a scam
15:04:08  <Scuddles> I didn't get it, did you actually mean threat?
15:04:43  <planetmaker> @kban Scuddles 90000 not a scam, as promised
15:04:44  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
15:04:44  *** Scuddles was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [not a scam, as promised]
15:06:44  <MNIM> ...wait. you mean you have to talk on-topic here?
15:06:50  <MNIM> ...what the actual duck
15:07:03  <MNIM> Ive been on a lot of ircs, but I have never seen that before
15:07:50  <Pinkbeast> I think it's more that you have not to take the mickey with the level of off-topicness
15:08:08  <planetmaker> ^^
15:08:37  <peter1138> well, that's bs
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15:08:48  <planetmaker> everything he said so far? Indeed
15:08:55  <peter1138> sure but he's scuddles
15:09:50  <planetmaker> That means nothing to me. And I expect from him somewhat decent behaviour. Which also implies to be more than a source of spam exclusively
15:10:04  <planetmaker> Thus he has about 25 hours to ponder about that
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16:38:11  <andythenorth> ho
16:38:15  * andythenorth just found this
16:38:23  <andythenorth> I think I inverted my position on that :P
16:38:39  <andythenorth> it was the voice of a reasonable person who didn't own children :P
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16:41:43  <frosch123> you own them? maybe sell them then?
16:42:20  <andythenorth> who does own them?  Is it me?
16:42:59  <frosch123> ah, you are owned by your children? yeah, that sounds reasonabel
16:44:48  <Nat_aS> Hey, I know you aren't suposed to report bugs for errors caused by removing newgrfs (for obvious reasons) but what about adding newgrfs to existing games?
16:45:10  <Nat_aS> because Japan houses crashes the Skadi Islands scenario whenever I try to load it in.
16:45:49  <Nat_aS> (I like the map but I always want to tinker with it before playing because it's industries are incomplete.
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16:46:48  <andythenorth> not a valid bug report :P
16:47:18  <planetmaker> Nat_aS, any change of NewGRF can cause such mayhem
16:47:42  <Nat_aS> in theroy you should be able to hotload newgrfs without them breaking
16:47:45  <planetmaker> as adding a NewGRF also means to re-define how map bits are to be interpreted
16:48:00  <Nat_aS> I'm assuming this one does not like it when there are already houses in existance.
16:48:17  <Nat_aS> I wonder if it would still happen if I deleted all the towns first.
16:48:35  <planetmaker> Nat_aS, how about "hotloading" a NewGRF which disables then another NewGRF which is used?
16:48:44  <planetmaker> Or which changes the things defined by another NewGRF?
16:49:07  <Nat_aS> Hmm maybe
16:49:16  <planetmaker> You think it doesn't happen? It does. There are such (nasty) examples
16:49:41  <planetmaker> Often one gets aways with adding NewGRFs. But unfortunately not always
16:49:54  <planetmaker> As the same things can happen as with removing
16:49:59  <Nat_aS> this one seems to be incompatible with the basic set though.
16:50:06  <Nat_aS> no other newgrfs are loaded
16:50:13  <planetmaker> yes. That doesn't matter
16:50:29  <planetmaker> the base set also has houses. They can be re-defined in an incompatible way
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16:51:28  <Nat_aS> but it should also be easy for a newgrf maker to design a newgrf that won't do that. at least easier than making a newgrf compatible with other people's newgrfs
16:51:43  <andythenorth> some newgrf makers don't care for that goal
16:51:47  <andythenorth> they don't think it's valid
16:51:55  <andythenorth> or so it's thought
16:52:12  <planetmaker> Nat_aS, yes, *should* be. but it's way easier to not bother yourself with such thoughts.
16:52:14  <andythenorth> hmm
16:52:21  <planetmaker> (as newgrf author)
16:52:27  <Pinkbeast> Also "best" can be the enemy of "good" there - better to release something that can't be loaded/unloaded than release nothing at all, surely.
16:52:36  <andythenorth> what's the list of grfs that disable themselves?  Also what's the list of grfs that disable other grfs?
16:52:43  <andythenorth> FIRS disables itself for example
16:52:54  <planetmaker> there's probably no comprehensive list
16:53:14  <planetmaker> you'd need to semantically analyse all NewGRFs to come up with that
16:53:19  <andythenorth> 'we' should parse all the grfs on bananas for relevant actions :P
16:53:23  <andythenorth> or not
16:53:31  <planetmaker> OpenTTD should do that
16:53:31  <andythenorth> anyway, this is old news
16:53:42  <Nat_aS> what's a nice set of GRFs that play nice together?
16:53:50  <planetmaker> and grf v9 disallows disabling others ;-)
16:53:55  <planetmaker> Nat_aS, the Japanese ones
16:53:57  <Ammler> Nat_aS: use all
16:54:01  <Nat_aS> :P
16:54:05  <Nat_aS> that's what I was trying to do
16:54:21  <planetmaker> Or the OpenGFX+ ones
16:54:26  <Nat_aS> i wanted to turn Puruno's Skadi islands into japan
16:54:31  <Ammler> planetmaker: is boring
16:54:38  <planetmaker> or Swedish ones
16:54:47  <planetmaker> yup. zzzZZZzzz ;-)
16:55:03  <Nat_aS> actualy, Skadi islands might be small enough to remove all the industries and replace them with a new industry grf
16:55:12  <Pinkbeast> Nat: FIRS, CHIPS, UKRS2, UKRS2 addons, EGRVTS, Generic Trams, Sailing Ships, Rural/Suburban stations renewal, Av8, and er one of those newhouses ones is my usual pick
16:55:20  <Nat_aS> and I tried sweedish, The trainset leaves much to be desired
16:55:25  <planetmaker> Nat_aS, don't change industry NewGRFs on an existing map
16:55:32  <Pinkbeast> Cough and HEQS, mustn't forget HEQS
16:55:36  <planetmaker> PinkBeast's list is nice
16:55:39  <planetmaker> ,too
16:55:41  <Nat_aS> I use FISH Industrial stations renewal, and AV8 on every map
16:55:59  <Nat_aS> because they don't break things, and fill huge gaps in core gameplay.
16:56:03  <planetmaker> you want to add the ISR station set
16:56:07  <Nat_aS> ISR?
16:56:09  <planetmaker> and maybe some VAST tiles
16:56:16  <Ammler> stations should not matter usually, except maybe canstations
16:56:18  <Nat_aS> I use Japan stations for passinger stations
16:56:19  <planetmaker> Industrial Stations Renewal
16:56:26  <Pinkbeast> Oh, damn FISH. I do have ISR in there, but I tend to stick with CHIPS now because it's better with FIRS.
16:56:30  <Nat_aS> I listed ISR
16:56:43  <planetmaker> Pinkbeast, indeed. They're for the lazy station builder :-)
16:56:46  <Pinkbeast> I mean "damn, I forgot FISH", not "damn FISH adding sea transport to my game!"
16:56:47  <Ammler> hmm, there mgith be no canstat
16:56:48  <planetmaker> (Just like me, too :-P )
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16:57:10  <Nat_aS> I wish there were passinger stations as snazy as ISR
16:57:27  <planetmaker> DutchStations has some
16:57:31  <Ammler> japstats
16:57:31  <Nat_aS> also i wish ISR had a few more tipes, maybe some more tiles
16:57:40  <planetmaker> more tiles?!
16:57:45  <Nat_aS> you can't place every tile from the completed sets
16:57:49  <Nat_aS> :3
16:57:50  <planetmaker> I wish it had less
16:57:53  <Nat_aS> lol
16:57:59  <Nat_aS> Sometimes I like to tinker.
16:58:15  <planetmaker> Too much choice, I can't decide :-P
16:58:23  <planetmaker> but then... "lazy station builder" :-P
16:58:28  <Pinkbeast> The old "newstatsw" grf was nice with all the tiny pax, but IIRC doesn't work nicely with NuTracks. And I forgot NuTracks, too
16:58:31  <Nat_aS> you can't place the barn as a non track tile
16:58:32  <Nat_aS> :C
16:58:44  <Nat_aS> the only agricultural themed non track tile is cattle yards
16:58:55  <Nat_aS> which looks silly in tropical maps where livestock do not exist.
16:59:08  <planetmaker> and grain silos
16:59:29  <Nat_aS> those are not non track, iirc
16:59:36  <Nat_aS> I could be wrong
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16:59:47  <planetmaker> iirc they exist as both. But I could be wrong, too ;-)
16:59:52  <Nat_aS> I just wish I could place barns as non track tiles.
17:00:02  <Nat_aS> they would make the perfect outrigger building
17:00:04  <planetmaker> Nat_aS, try look at DWE and VAST tiles
17:00:17  <planetmaker> they have loads of stuff which you might find exciting in this context
17:00:33  <Nat_aS> loading VAST and ISR is MENUS MENUS MENUS
17:00:42  <planetmaker> yes. So? :-)
17:00:49  <planetmaker> We now have 256 menus available :-P
17:00:55  <Nat_aS> oh
17:01:02  <Nat_aS> can there be an overflow of menus?
17:01:04  <Pinkbeast> But I think I'm in the lazy category for industry stations, I'll pick the CHIPS station with the right background and slap it down, who cares?
17:01:13  <Nat_aS> CHIPS?
17:01:14  <planetmaker> it was previously capped to 32(?) station classes
17:01:25  <Pinkbeast> For one thing tweaking station appearance is a good way to spend money early.
17:01:34  <Nat_aS> what happens if you load all the station newgrfs at once? will it crash?
17:01:38  <Nat_aS> or just not display
17:01:41  <planetmaker> sure it is. But who cares about money after 10 years?
17:01:45  <Nat_aS> "P
17:01:48  <Nat_aS> :P
17:01:50  <planetmaker> Nat_aS, it will simply work
17:02:02  <planetmaker> Mostly, that's what I usually do :-P
17:02:06  <Pinkbeast> planetmaker: When I started in 1800 I was still struggling for money when I stopped in about 1850
17:02:19  <planetmaker> Pinkbeast, ok, I barely start that early :-)
17:02:19  <Pinkbeast> Nat: CHIPS is a more plain set that supports all FIRS cargos
17:02:36  <Nat_aS> so, even if you remove all industries and then load a new industry grf it will not work?
17:02:47  <Nat_aS> is there any scenario that uses FIRS?
17:02:59  <Pinkbeast> I did have inflation on (which is one reason I gave up, this was a mistake) but even without I think you're going to struggle to make money with very early vehicles.
17:03:19  <Nat_aS> inflation should be based on absolute year, not relitive year.
17:03:29  * planetmaker just wished that egrvts was fixed for realistic acceleration
17:03:47  <Nat_aS> ie, if you start before 1930 you wont see any inflation at all untill much much later
17:03:55  <planetmaker> why?
17:04:00  <Pinkbeast> Likewise, but I figured I'd just change RVs to realistic once the last horse trams were retired.
17:04:19  <ffpp> I'm playing 1850 atm too
17:04:33  <ffpp> but RVs are a PITA during those early stages
17:05:30  <ffpp> they just clutter up the roads, get stuck and barely make money - for pax games I just refer to the 2cc metros which I run all across towns for local transportation
17:05:37  <Pinkbeast> You need about 80 million horse vehicles to do anything but in-city pax
17:05:55  <ffpp> yes
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17:06:12  <Pinkbeast> If we ever get andy's "continuous transport" I think there's a lot to be said for implementing wagonways as continuous transport
17:06:23  <ffpp> one problem: with so many it is very likely that one will be broken at any time and everyone else will get stuck in traffic because of it
17:06:38  <ffpp> andy's what ? :)
17:08:11  <Pinkbeast> As an alternative to roads/rails/air/sea: it would cover things like pipelines, electricity supply, cable cars?, that sort of thing
17:08:19  <Nat_aS> hey, this is not ISR is it?
17:08:30  <Pinkbeast> I mean the sort of cable car where low-capacity vehicles leave very frequently
17:08:32  <Nat_aS> another station grf that uses some of it's sprites?
17:08:56  <Pinkbeast> That image does appear to be of an ISR mineral station
17:09:25  <Nat_aS> yes, but look at the ground
17:09:33  <Nat_aS> it's dirt not concrete.
17:10:11  <planetmaker> that's iirc ISR
17:10:19  <planetmaker> though the ground looks funky
17:10:23  <Nat_aS> yeah
17:10:35  <Nat_aS> does ISR have any derivatives?
17:10:58  <planetmaker> not that I know. But feasible and legal.
17:11:05  <Pinkbeast> Ah, I think that's CHIPS, actually
17:11:14  <Nat_aS> CHIPS?
17:11:25  <Pinkbeast> Errr see above last time you asked me that
17:12:55  <planetmaker> Nat_aS, just download it from online content and see what CHIPS is
17:13:23  <planetmaker> for me it's a lazy person's awesome station building NewGRF
17:14:15  <planetmaker> andythenorth, did CHIPS borrow that building from ISR?
17:14:20  <planetmaker> you should know :-P
17:15:12  <andythenorth> that's original industrial stations graph
17:15:15  <andythenorth> grf :P
17:15:31  <andythenorth> predates ISR
17:15:39  <planetmaker> oh
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17:18:01  <andythenorth> it has [some] nicer stations in it imho
17:19:48  <Nat_aS> does CHIPS get more buildings later?
17:19:54  <Nat_aS> because right now it has very few
17:19:56  <Nat_aS> in 1930
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17:20:20  <andythenorth> it has very few
17:20:26  <andythenorth> partly by design
17:20:28  <Nat_aS> Hmm
17:20:54  <planetmaker> it hasn't been designed to be the only station NewGRF a player uses
17:20:57  <andythenorth> and partly by being 0.6.0
17:21:04  * Pinkbeast is confused by from the CHIPS development thread, he can't make it do that.
17:21:27  <andythenorth> that's not chips ;)
17:21:35  <planetmaker> what station? Looks not like chips
17:21:40  <planetmaker> s/what/that/g
17:22:03  <Pinkbeast> I figured (wrongly) since it was posted in that thread it must be CHIPS and you'd added some IS/ISR buildings just because
17:23:09  <Nat_aS> that is ISR
17:23:25  <Nat_aS> but before I saw ISR buildings on CHIPS platforms
17:23:28  <Nat_aS> which confused me
17:23:43  <Pinkbeast> That also was part of what led me to the wrong conclusion
17:27:15  <Nat_aS> anyways, I think my ideal station newgrf would have one menu of automatic stations including Rural, Urban, Farm, Mine, wood, container, ect ect. one menu of non track buildings, a menu of elements from the automatic stations as non track tiles, and then menus of all the individual tiles found in the automatic stations
17:27:26  <Nat_aS> it would have everything, and be self contained
17:27:39  <Nat_aS> maybe even make it break other station newgrfs >:3
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17:28:30  <Pinkbeast> What I'd really like to see (which I realise is a hard problem) is activity at unloading stations and at loading stations even when goods are not waiting around.
17:28:48  <andythenorth> there can be vehicle animation and such
17:28:58  <andythenorth> there's a regular animation trigger I think
17:29:14  <planetmaker> stations have a CB which is triggered when a vehicle loads
17:29:15  <Pinkbeast> At the moment any station that's unloading-only, or serviced perfectly, appears to be a ghost town, which is a bit of a pity.
17:30:10  <planetmaker> true
17:30:34  <Nat_aS> is there any scenerio that uses FIRS?
17:30:41  <Pinkbeast> Particularly if (says he, stacking up wishlist stuff for someone else) stations change a bit by year; all those diesel cranes look a bit odd in 1825. :-)
17:30:41  <Nat_aS> because I hate generating maps
17:30:50  <Nat_aS> the industries are always placed illogicly
17:31:34  <andythenorth> stations can change by year
17:31:41  <andythenorth> CHIPS could do it, I have older cranes
17:31:54  <planetmaker> that'd be awesome :-)
17:32:18  <andythenorth> I'd have to remember nfo :P
17:32:19  <Nat_aS> so chips is a work in progress?
17:32:32  <Pinkbeast> Depends how much you care about us crazy early starters who'd like to see horsies and shunting engines. :-)
17:32:36  <Nat_aS> would you incorperate some ISR tiles/stations?
17:33:01  <andythenorth> CHIPS is 0.6.0
17:33:09  <andythenorth> things that are 'done' are > 1.0.0
17:33:11  <andythenorth> ;)
17:33:23  <Nat_aS> lol
17:33:40  <Nat_aS> actualy, I really want to see a grf that allows custom seaports
17:33:44  <Nat_aS> maybe multi tile ones
17:33:48  <Nat_aS> that can be combined
17:33:51  <andythenorth> there's one being developed in the forum
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17:33:57  <andythenorth> doesn't do actual docks though
17:34:02  <andythenorth> Pinkbeast: I usually start around 1870
17:34:11  <Nat_aS> would be really cool if you could build a pier, and then place a station on top of i
17:34:13  <Nat_aS> it
17:34:24  <Nat_aS> oh ink?
17:34:27  <Nat_aS> link rather
17:34:34  <Pinkbeast> Next time I take a proper stab at it I'll probably start around 1825.
17:34:39  <andythenorth>
17:35:15  <Pinkbeast> Basically, early enough to have some horse / sail infrastructure in the company when locomotives become practical
17:36:11  <andythenorth> it's too bloody slow in 1825
17:36:14  <Nat_aS> oh my god
17:36:16  <Nat_aS> that's awesome
17:36:26  <planetmaker> <-- Pinkbeast in principle you could populate stations also on unload...  might be hard to determine the cargo type, though
17:36:39  <Pinkbeast> Well, I resolved after the Rennford game to fiddle with daylength shamelessly
17:36:47  <Nat_aS> could just be set by station type planetmaker
17:36:50  <andythenorth> is there no regular animation trigger?  /me didn't look yet
17:36:59  <planetmaker> Nat_aS, yes... But that's "boring" ;-)
17:37:45  <Pinkbeast> planetmaker: One might leave it up to the player to build the "right" non-station tiles - so frex lights would come on in a parcels office, and if you didn't deliver mail that's your lookout.
17:39:10  <planetmaker> Pinkbeast, that certainly is possible
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17:40:00  <Nat_aS> oh god, trucks driving on docks
17:40:01  <planetmaker> And tbh, I'd love such option / tiles. But I'd love it more, if it detected the delivered cargo. But I have my doubts that it's feasible atm
17:40:02  <Nat_aS> I think I came
17:40:05  <Nat_aS> I need new pants now.
17:40:17  <Pinkbeast> And a lot of stuff (cranes moving, scenery-type industrial locomotives or lorries buzzing about) is pretty generic.
17:40:33  <planetmaker> yeah. As are parcels, containers or boxes
17:40:33  <Nat_aS> no, these are actual roads
17:40:43  <Nat_aS> so you can drive trucks onto the docks to unload
17:44:56  <planetmaker> Generally it needs more people coding NewGRFs :-)
17:49:21  <frosch123> generally it needs more girls
17:49:23  <frosch123> :p
17:49:34  <Nat_aS> yeah, they seem to be having trouble getting cars to drive under cranes without cliping
17:49:50  <Nat_aS> on the water it does not seem to work
17:51:51  <Terkhen> hello
17:52:01  <andythenorth> frosch123: 'it' ?
17:52:11  <andythenorth> I have quite enough girls in my life
17:52:23  <frosch123> it, this cannel
17:52:39  <frosch123> andythenorth: do they code grfs?
17:52:50  <andythenorth> frosch123: they support the coding of grfs, somewhat
17:53:06  <andythenorth> by provision of sofas and tables
17:53:11  <andythenorth> and food sometimes
17:53:28  <Pinkbeast> Errr did this conversation just take a wrong turn somewhere?
17:53:28  <frosch123> or are they only boosting the diaper industry?
17:53:40  <andythenorth> I'd say they are also detrimental to coding of grfs, due to regular invention of chores
17:54:09  <frosch123> does firs have a diaper industry?
17:54:19  <CornishPasty> MAKE ONE!
17:54:22  <Nat_aS> i wouldn't be suprised
17:54:36  <Nat_aS> but I have no way of knowing because THERE ARE NO SCENERIOS THAT USE IT
17:54:41  * Nat_aS shakes fist
17:55:16  <andythenorth> shurg
17:55:21  <andythenorth> shrug /s
17:55:25  <andythenorth> make a scenario?
17:55:29  <andythenorth> also, FIRS changes a lot
17:55:37  <andythenorth> so scenario makers hate me :P
17:55:53  <frosch123> maybe they think you hate them
17:56:27  <Nat_aS> is it compatible with tropical?
17:56:56  <andythenorth> why is the sound broken currently?
17:57:04  <andythenorth> my dynamite isn't 'bang'
17:57:20  <andythenorth> which is problematic when entertaining 2 year olds
17:57:39  <planetmaker> The NoSound sound set usually is quite silent ;-)
17:57:52  <andythenorth> this is the thing where pikka has somehow broken sounds
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18:24:42  <Nat_aS> i don't even know how FIRS works, how am I suposed to make a scenerio for it
18:24:50  <Nat_aS> and is it compatible with tropic or not?
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18:26:49  <Alberth> niom
18:27:04  <planetmaker> oddink
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18:36:54  <Alberth> quiet crowd today :p
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18:42:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24056 /trunk/src/lang/ (croatian.txt german.txt latvian.txt unfinished/thai.txt):
18:42:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:42:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne
18:42:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by Jogio
18:42:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 6 changes by Parastais
18:43:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: thai - 96 changes by kenny
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18:49:21  <Rubidium> Alberth: yeah, serious case of "real life"
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19:03:23  <andythenorth> Nat_aS: FIRS compatible with tropic
19:03:27  <andythenorth> Rubidium: +1 to real life
19:03:35  <andythenorth> at least I can go and work in the pub tonight though
19:03:38  * andythenorth hopes
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19:07:56  <Alberth> if you tend the bar, that should work quite nicely :p
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19:52:45  <Nat_aS> Hmm, I just had a strange idea
19:53:03  <Nat_aS> what if there was a Grf that allowed you to customze industries?
19:53:37  <Nat_aS> like tweek with there sprites in the scenerio editor, and select what goods they accpted and produced
19:54:20  <Yexo> why not simply write your own industry newgrf in that case?
19:54:47  <Nat_aS> because I'm not a programer :P
19:55:23  <Yexo> it's a bad idea because it adds a new layer of complexity without any new value
19:55:32  <Yexo> what you actually want is an easier way to create an industry newgrf
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19:56:27  <Nat_aS> well I am playing around with FIRS, and I keep wishing I had a factory that took XY and produced Z,
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19:56:41  <Nat_aS> there are a lot of combinations, but sometimes you want a combination that is not there
19:56:52  <Yexo> as I said: you need an easier way to modify FIRS
19:57:27  <Nat_aS> I say it would add value for scenario editors.
19:58:09  <Alberth> but for MP you need to be able to distribute that information
19:58:27  <Alberth> also, you probably want to play with the same industries more than once
19:59:06  <Yexo> distribution for MP is not a problem, it can be done via a new savegame chunk
19:59:06  <Nat_aS> another question, in FIRS, are fishing ports seaports?
19:59:16  <Yexo> don't know
19:59:16  <Nat_aS> or do you need to build a dock next to them>
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19:59:39  <Nat_aS> they don't seem to make automatic ports like fishing grounds do.
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20:01:31  <Zuu> Does it have a gray station sign over it?
20:01:41  <Zuu> If not, there is no "dock"
20:01:51  <Nat_aS> yeah, I don't see a sign
20:01:59  <Nat_aS> but I don't see why it wouldn't be a dock
20:02:03  <Nat_aS> it makes little sense.
20:02:29  <Yexo> ask andy when he gets here
20:02:49  <Nat_aS> i will
20:03:19  <Alberth> fishing grounds is an oil-rig like industry, not a dock
20:03:42  <Nat_aS> yeah, so it can accept boats
20:03:52  <Nat_aS> why aren't fishing ports the same way?
20:04:39  <Yexo> most likely because in that case it must also accepts helicopters
20:05:26  <Nat_aS> well so do fishing grounds
20:05:37  <Nat_aS> which is silly, but unavoidable
20:05:55  <Nat_aS> (technacly anywhere should be able to accept helicopters :p)
20:06:08  <Alberth> don't oil-rigs have a minimal distance from the shore?
20:06:30  <Nat_aS> can that be set?
20:06:57  <Alberth> you want an industry set to work independent of such settings, I'd say
20:07:30  <Alberth> but andy knows :)
20:09:13  *** xiong [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:12:27  <Nat_aS> well I'm turning Puruno's Skadi islands map into an alaskan/pacific northwest themed map with FIRS industries
20:12:30  <Nat_aS> lots of fish
20:12:51  <Nat_aS> and a hidden brewery that makes the best porter ever.
20:13:12  <Alberth> :)
20:15:37  <Nat_aS> and no, loading FIRS into an existing map does not crash it if you delete all the industries first
20:15:39  <Nat_aS> (i hope)
20:21:47  <Alberth> usually it does not crash, it just corrupts data which you don't see until much later
20:22:34  <Nat_aS> :C
20:22:57  <Nat_aS> ;_;
20:22:58  <Alberth> if it reliably crashed, we'd have much less problems
20:26:11  <Nat_aS> so there is no way to sanatize maps?
20:26:22  <Nat_aS> except maybe turn them into heightmaps?
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20:27:49  <Nat_aS> oh well this is intresting
20:27:53  <Nat_aS> It loaded it back bigger
20:29:35  <V453000> why dont you just use a random map? :) always fresh and original and you can set that up anyhow you want
20:31:18  <Nat_aS> random maps are often silly in regards to geography.
20:32:32  <Nat_aS> what's a good trainset compatible with FIRS?
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20:33:57  <FLHerne> UKRS2(+) is nice
20:34:46  <Nat_aS> one that would fit a pacific northwest/alaska theme
20:34:57  <Nat_aS> North america maybe?
20:36:04  <V453000> geography xD it is a game dude
20:36:18  <V453000> it is great to mix train sets for FIRS
20:36:31  <V453000> if you use just one then you still dont have wagons for all cargoes
20:37:18  <V453000> I have good experience with combining UKRS, NARS and tropic refurbishment set ... tropic refurbishment set does not support FIRS cargoes but it really fits into the mix and you can use its wagons for the standard cargoes like coal or oil which are still there
20:39:42  <Nat_aS> i like tropic refurbishment set
20:39:47  <Nat_aS> but it's probably wrong for here
20:39:59  <Nat_aS> love the huge rodisian locomotives
20:40:17  <Nat_aS> and the even huger future MHD engines.
20:40:42  <Nat_aS> is FISH and AV8 FIRS compatible?
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20:44:31  <V453000> guess if FISH is when andy made it :)
20:45:13  <Alberth> s/if/whether/
20:47:21  <V453000> guess "FISH andy" would have said enough :p
20:54:18  <Alberth> probably it would :)
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20:59:56  <Nat_aS> should the oil refinery be connected to a fertalizer plant or plastics plant?
21:03:48  <Alberth> look it up in the industry chain window
21:04:21  <Nat_aS> no i mean physicaly connected
21:04:45  <Nat_aS> I'm making a big huge oil refinery pier (just a square penensula with a refinery and rounds around it
21:04:57  <Nat_aS> and I am wondering if there should be annother factory on the pier,
21:05:05  <Nat_aS> so you can have trucks driving back and forth
21:05:16  <Nat_aS> and produce two kinds of cargos
21:06:02  <Alberth>  <-- home of andy
21:06:11  <Alberth> should have all details about firs
21:08:25  * CornishPasty licks the pixels
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21:12:42  <bremerjoe> Good evening everybody :)
21:12:48  <Alberth> hi
21:16:02  <bremerjoe> Right to the point: Slowly working on translating more of the wiki again and I would need to update the pictures too. Not sure how to though. Manual of Style explains what I have to type to make the picture show up but do I have to upload it somewhere?
21:17:57  <Yexo> you can upload it to the wiki
21:18:40  <bremerjoe> how?
21:19:04  <Yexo> bottom-left, in the "toolbox" there is a link called "upload file"
21:20:13  <bremerjoe> even after reading this I had to search for more than a minute. ;) Thanks Yexo!
21:22:38  <bremerjoe> When I am done with translating something and would like someone else to have a glance to see whether it is OK, how can I make sure somebody takes a peek? Do I have to notify someone? Or will someone eventually check what has been edited lately and then give feedback on the discussion page?
21:24:15  <Alberth> notify someone would work, or you can post a topic at the general forum
21:24:19  <Yexo> I guess you could open a topic on the forum
21:24:38  <Yexo> of course if there is someone you know is willing to read over your edits, notifying that person is much quicker
21:26:12  <Alberth> I thought the german translators also had a topic, but I cannot find it now :(
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21:26:59  <Alberth> although they mostly discuss how to translate certain things, afaik
21:27:50  <Alberth> good night all
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21:28:08  <bremerjoe> no problem. Then I will either post my request here or PM someone. Would not want to spam the forum with that. Who would be a German native being rather active? I only know planetmaker being German?
21:28:18  <bremerjoe> Bye Alberth
21:28:33  <Yexo> bremerjoe: please post on the forum if you don't already know a person is willing to review
21:28:38  <Yexo> it's not spam, it's a valid request
21:28:53  <bremerjoe> OK
21:29:09  <Alberth> and much more friendly than harassing a person you don't really know
21:29:16  <Yexo> <- that topic
21:29:38  <Alberth> indeed :)
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21:30:42  <Ammler> or
21:34:07  <bremerjoe> Thanks all. Bookmarked the link accordingly. :)
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21:43:17  <Wolf01> hello
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22:14:29  <frosch123> night
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22:25:37  <bremerjoe> Bye all!
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23:05:09  <FLHerne> Hmm. Are the forums down for anyone else?
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23:17:58  <Zuu> No
23:18:23  <Zuu> There is a nightly backup but it only lasts for 5 minutes or so.
23:32:48  <Terkhen> good night
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