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07:49:56 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: I pasted the complete "Hello World" programme there 07:50:40 <planetmaker> or wiki is wrong ;-) 07:51:08 <Eddi|zuHause> it's easily possible i miscalculated :) 07:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> but 29 and 30 don't seem right 07:52:00 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what 9 is 07:52:24 <Eddi|zuHause> wouldn't that be tab? 07:53:15 <planetmaker> ascii 0x09 is tab iirc, yes 07:53:23 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:57:49 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:04:34 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:11:53 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:13:17 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-207.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 08:17:33 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:19:57 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:22:31 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:22:32 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 08:25:42 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:26:07 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:28:48 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:30:42 *** zooks_ [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 08:31:16 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 08:32:23 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:32:48 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:33:28 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178220081.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 08:38:43 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:42:01 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:44:47 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/brainfuck.py <-- seems to work correctly. i probably miscounted or something 08:45:05 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:45:20 <Eddi|zuHause> > python ~/brainfuck.py ~/helloworld.bf 08:45:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Hello World! 08:45:55 <Eddi|zuHause> beware: my loop implementation may be buggy 08:47:37 <CornishPasty> What's your helloworld.bf look like Eddi|zuHause ? 08:47:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i need to rethink my handling of while(0) 08:47:53 <Eddi|zuHause> CornishPasty: from the wiki page. or what planetmaker posted above 08:48:20 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:48:31 <CornishPasty> Ah right lol 08:51:38 <Eddi|zuHause> new version with hopefully improved loop behaviour 08:52:53 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:54:37 <planetmaker> lol, Eddi|zuHause :-) 08:57:05 * Rhamphoryncus thinks we should have a callback to change cargo ageing and payment.. then finds out they already exist 08:57:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yah, i thought of that first :) 08:57:37 <Rhamphoryncus> :) 08:57:42 <Eddi|zuHause> (but i did not implement it) 08:57:46 <Rhamphoryncus> Has anybody played with it yet? 08:58:27 <Eddi|zuHause> not really. it's only few months old, no released newgrf uses it yet, afaik 08:58:33 <Rhamphoryncus> ahh alright 08:58:43 * Rhamphoryncus sees FIRS hacks in his future 08:59:22 <Eddi|zuHause> variable cargo aging is a vehicle set feature, not an industry set feature 08:59:32 <Rhamphoryncus> .. what? 08:59:43 <Rhamphoryncus> Oh, it's for boats and such? 08:59:55 <Eddi|zuHause> for example 09:00:03 <planetmaker> not quite true. OpenGFX+ Trains uses it for refrigerator wagons 09:00:16 <Rhamphoryncus> ahh interesting 09:04:28 <Rhamphoryncus> Well, the only reason I was considering cargo ageing was to extend the time I have to work with, but it's minor 09:04:32 <Eddi|zuHause> reuploaded. now with license. 09:12:53 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120310011224]] 09:17:24 *** jazzyjaffa [~jazzyjaff@213.123.113.33] has joined #openttd 09:22:04 *** CQ_ is now known as CQ 09:22:18 <CQ> is there a way to get signals for both directions on one square? 09:22:38 <Nat_aS> ??? 09:22:41 <Nat_aS> like you mean normal signals? 09:22:47 <Nat_aS> or path signals? 09:23:50 <Eddi|zuHause> CQ: you never ever want such a signal combination 09:26:07 <CQ> i have a circular track, and am thinknig about having trains go both ways on it... 09:33:38 <planetmaker> I suggest you simply read up on the signal types 09:36:05 *** zooks_ [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:36:44 <CQ> planetmaker: I have, twice, and I still dont get it completely. 09:37:01 <CQ> the signals always show if a path to the next stopping point is clear 09:37:11 <CQ> at least the ones I'm using 09:37:50 <planetmaker> do they? 09:38:05 <planetmaker> I think they show whether the next block is clear or they show red 09:39:30 <CQ> I thought block was stopping point, i.e. a signal or a station 09:39:42 <Eddi|zuHause> CQ: so when you have two signals on the same tile, you will have trains waiting on both sides until the other side clears, which will never happen, because there are no switches inbetween 09:44:19 <CQ> Eddi|zuHause: true... guess I need to rethink the design a little then,,, 09:48:49 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-044-104.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 10:02:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6AFB8.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 10:13:33 *** ffpp [~me@dslb-188-107-129-195.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 10:15:10 <ffpp> hi, I need some advice: I have a data structure (GuiList) which contains const pointers. At some point I want to retrieve one of those and need to use and change the pointed-to-obj. So I did a cast to a non-const pointer of the same obj type (\n) 10:16:17 <ffpp> ... I just make a pastebin 10:21:28 <ffpp> paste: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/572455/ 10:22:06 <ffpp> question: isn't this stupid as I modify the same object in both cases anyway ? Only the way to retrieve it has changed and this just tricks out the compiler warning 10:27:18 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178220081.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:32:16 <Rhamphoryncus> Well, you shouldn't be casting away const, so.. 10:32:56 <ffpp> so what ? both ways are stupid ? 10:33:20 <Rhamphoryncus> The second is slightly better, if uglier 10:34:23 <Rhamphoryncus> "I never modify it, except in this one particular case.." is a deep problem with the const model 10:35:49 <Rhamphoryncus> Off hand.. if you're storing a pointer it probably shouldn't be const. const works best for transient uses, ie you pass it to a function that doesn't modify it 10:36:27 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178214089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:36:28 <ffpp> in general it shouldn't be a semantic problem to modify templatevehicles, but in this one case I need to retrieve the tv to modify by looking at the selected index, so the 2nd way is just cleaner to retrieve it 10:37:36 <ffpp> the general usage of openttd seems to be to store const pointers into the GuiList templates, thats why I went with it in the first place 10:38:24 * Rhamphoryncus nods 10:38:44 <Rhamphoryncus> I can't speak for openttd's style choices. I wasn't there when they happened :) 10:39:46 <ffpp> Why not, rhamphoryncus sounds like a create which existed a long time ago :) 10:40:48 <Rhamphoryncus> Well yes, but there was that pesky extinction in the middle while all the interesting stuff happened 10:41:15 <ffpp> how come you're helping out right now, then ? jurassic park ? 10:41:56 <Rhamphoryncus> Good question 10:42:37 <planetmaker> capability to fly helps with escapes ;-) 10:43:20 <ffpp> I once knew all the queer dinosaur names - profession of choice then: 'dinosaur expert'. good times :) 10:44:06 <ffpp> thanks btw, I'm going with the 2nd way then, seems to be feasible 10:44:32 <Rhamphoryncus> huh, there's a usage of "queer" you don't hear much these days 10:44:53 <peter1138> how queer 10:45:10 * peter1138 is also happy & gay 10:45:40 <ffpp> I thought it means strange or something along that line, not gay 10:46:13 <peter1138> both words with multiple meanings, these days 10:47:51 * V453000 is also beer 10:48:14 <Rhamphoryncus> ffpp: that's the original meaning 10:49:32 <ffpp> and it is at the top of the list in the dictionary 10:50:13 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, but dictionaries don't reflect common usage ;) 10:50:47 <Rhamphoryncus> The derogatory form became the dominant one, then more recently it's been reclaimed by the gay community 10:51:43 <ffpp> in all english speaking countries or only GB or the US ? 10:54:39 <Rhamphoryncus> I'm canadian so I'd say north america. I can't speak for GB 10:55:18 <Rhamphoryncus> I'm pretty sure there's some of it there too, but I don't know how much 10:56:18 <ffpp> hm, I actually learned the word on a north american sports forum, didn't seem like it was used with the gay meaning, maybe I got it wrong 10:58:25 *** Twofish [~Twofish@77-95-76-210.bb.cust.hknett.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:59:07 <Rhamphoryncus> Unless there's a significant presence from the gay community I'd be surprised if it wasn't derogatory 11:01:55 <ffpp> especially in sports talks 11:02:57 <Rhamphoryncus> yeah 11:05:40 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/brainfuck.py <-- i think my loop handling is finally correct now 11:08:04 * Rhamphoryncus goes to look, then realizes the file name and decides not 11:13:17 <Rhamphoryncus> although.. if notch can embed a language in his next game.. if I make a game I should embed brainfuck in it. Just to fuck with peoples' brains :) 11:15:58 <ffpp> use it as ai-scripting language 11:16:01 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 11:16:27 <CornishPasty> How would that... I don't even 11:16:36 <CornishPasty> We need a language that can compile down to bf 11:21:06 <Rhamphoryncus> I figure that would happen eventually 11:28:58 *** cl8 [~cccc@host-92-3-238-145.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 11:35:45 <CQ> how do you get rid of an appaling rating in a town without bribing? I have one station there and can't build anything... 11:40:10 <ffpp> plant lots of trees 11:40:42 <ffpp> or deliver into or out of that town 11:42:08 <planetmaker> or just wait 11:42:36 <CQ> I can't deliver since I have no stations there 11:43:20 <planetmaker> wait or plant trees. Only the firs tree planted on a tile counts. 11:43:37 <planetmaker> As you can't get worse, it might help to kill more trees in advance to this endeavour 11:43:50 *** cl8 [~cccc@host-92-3-238-145.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:44:03 <planetmaker> but only tiles 15 tiles away from town centre count 11:44:18 <planetmaker> thus doens't work for large cities 11:45:37 <CQ> ok, thanks ... does it make sense for vehicles to have the hangar / dock / depot in their route, or do they go automaticaly if servicing is needed? 11:45:55 <Eddi|zuHause> yes and yes 11:46:25 <Eddi|zuHause> if you put the depot in the orders, they will never try to go to a different depot 11:46:38 <Eddi|zuHause> which may help with trains getting lost 11:46:38 <ffpp> especially for trains, which can't just change direction at will it makes sense to have a depot along every (long) route 11:47:10 <Eddi|zuHause> also, you may force the depot visit while the trains are empty then 11:47:25 <Eddi|zuHause> so the cargo is delivered as fast as possible 12:02:35 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=410631152299677&set=a.223098324386295.105971.205344452828349&type=1&ref=nf 12:06:15 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:07:48 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:08:43 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:447f:a5f0:e3ef:bb3a] has joined #openttd 12:08:47 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:24:03 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:30:56 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 12:40:15 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:44:58 <MNIM> "Step 1: Go to scripting website/room/ etc. Step 2: Pretend you're an air-headed, yet sexy blonde single 19 year old girl who is just so "desperate" to get the script working. Step 3: ???? Step 4: Profit!!!" 12:45:09 <MNIM> you're a bunch of coders, right. 12:45:13 <MNIM> would that work here? 12:45:41 <MNIM> especially if "Will show booby pics if helped" 12:45:58 <MNIM> I sincerely doubt it, but somebody said that works with coders. :P 12:47:41 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: if you believe that, you'd also believe that there are actual lesbians in #lesbians 12:48:01 <MNIM> lol 12:49:00 <MNIM> wait, there's an actual channel #lesbians on this network? 12:49:08 * MNIM checks 12:49:11 <MNIM> ...nope 12:49:14 * MNIM baps. 13:01:30 <dihedral> ... 13:01:34 <dihedral> interesting! 13:01:55 <MNIM> what's interesting? 13:02:03 <dihedral> do the pics sell? if they do, she can sell them and i'll take the cash :-D 13:02:25 <dihedral> ... for gpl released code :-D 13:02:43 <MNIM> lol 13:07:17 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 13:33:25 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 13:45:24 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 14:00:46 <Belugas> hello 14:01:59 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:03:52 *** snorre [~snorre@c1A0FBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 14:13:57 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:28:29 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 14:39:20 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 14:56:11 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host83-217-165-40.dsl.vispa.com] has joined #openttd 14:56:21 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host83-217-165-40.dsl.vispa.com] has quit [] 15:07:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:08:06 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 15:12:45 <andythenorth> hello 15:13:27 * andythenorth is all work and no play 15:14:14 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:22:20 *** KouDy [~KouDy@27.42.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:37 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.5.150] has joined #openttd 15:30:26 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 15:35:48 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 15:40:10 * ffpp wants to use testing as excuse for playing but frequent changes to the saveload code prevent any longterm fun 15:41:01 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:07 * Rubidium wonders what he's missing 15:42:07 <ffpp> only patch stuff :) 15:42:20 <Rubidium> oh, but then it's your own fault ;) 15:42:38 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.8.91] has joined #openttd 15:43:46 <andythenorth> it's fun that such a massive hack to get 'stations over roads' is so popular :D 15:43:51 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=58884&start=100 15:45:31 <V453000> oh, the cars can really drive on that? 15:46:27 <ffpp> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=157898 << the things people build in this game ... so much attention to detail 15:46:40 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.5.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:53:05 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-106-10-184.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 15:53:35 *** eQualizer|dada [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-77-86-195-47.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 15:54:05 <andythenorth> lo Pikka le bird 15:54:11 <Pikka> lo bob 15:54:42 <andythenorth> beebl 15:54:51 <Pikka> how rare 15:55:17 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-77-86-195-47.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:56:12 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:56:32 <Terkhen> hello 15:57:26 <andythenorth> Pikka: so is it done? 15:57:30 <andythenorth> mine aren't :| 15:57:37 <Pikka> which? 15:57:40 <Pikka> the road vehicles? 15:57:42 <Pikka> not at all 15:57:54 <andythenorth> what about the choo choos? 15:58:07 <Pikka> yup, they're done 15:58:15 <Pikka> and the nyow nyows 15:58:18 <andythenorth> what about....the industries? 15:58:22 <Pikka> nope 15:58:23 <andythenorth> all the industry sets suck 15:58:28 * andythenorth wants a new industry set 15:59:45 <Pikka> people don't like my industry set much 16:00:00 <Pikka> either the stockpiling sucks, or it doesn't have enough fancy new cargos 16:02:07 <andythenorth> I like it 16:02:12 <andythenorth> I just played it to death :P 16:02:22 <andythenorth> mine is rubbish 16:02:36 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A88F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:02:42 <andythenorth> too big, too complicated, too unfinishe 16:03:08 <Belugas> thus... 16:03:10 <Belugas> +d 16:03:11 <Belugas> ;) 16:03:22 <TrueBrain> must ... not .. make .... easy .... " that's what she said " joke .... 16:04:43 <andythenorth> also 16:04:44 <andythenorth> http://dreamsongs.com/Files/PatternsOfSoftware.pdf 16:05:25 <Pikka> andy: I'm considering a production feedback mechanism for mines 16:05:37 <andythenorth> tell 16:05:39 <Pikka> but probably just using goods rather than a special cargo 16:05:55 <andythenorth> goods covers all sins 16:06:01 <andythenorth> how about 'people' too? :P 16:06:06 <Pikka> I haven't worked out the details yet :) but I definitely want to replace the standard random production changes mechanism and make it more interesting 16:06:13 <Pikka> interesting for me, anyway 16:06:16 <Pikka> :) 16:08:24 <andythenorth> will it be evil? 16:08:30 <Belugas> evil is good 16:08:40 *** andythenorth is now known as bad_pikka 16:08:55 <Pikka> I don't know 16:09:03 <Pikka> "more predictable" probably isn't evil 16:09:43 <Belugas> evil always gives some spice to life :) 16:09:56 <Pikka> industries suddenly halving production for no apparent reason is "evil", but also default behaviour and annoying 16:11:02 <Pinkbeast> Part of the trouble here seems to be that the demand of every consumer is infinite, which ought to make those stockpiles work better... 16:11:34 <Pikka> part of what trouble? 16:12:14 <planetmaker> welcome to "smooth economy". And also 'hello' :-) 16:12:20 <Pinkbeast> Well, the way vanilla OTTD lets you route all the coal on the map to one power station on the other side of the world. 16:13:41 <bad_pikka> why is that trouble? 16:13:44 <bad_pikka> that is correct behaviour 16:17:06 <bad_pikka> also...YACD has been updated to compile with recent trunk apparently ;) 16:17:46 <jazzyjaffa> Yes :) 16:17:58 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 16:18:53 <jazzyjaffa> Although I haven't fixed the subsidy bit yet. 16:19:31 <Pikka> hmm 16:20:31 <Pikka> I might do the calcutta and one futuristic plane in this release of av8, just so it balances out the 3-column vehicle list picture 16:20:37 <Pikka> is that OCD? 16:21:02 <Pikka> just the calcutta would do I think 16:21:13 <Pikka> not that anyone will ever use it 16:21:56 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.8.91] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:22:10 <Pikka> I've often thought when making vehicle sets that I should just make the 5 biggest/most powerful vehicles and not bother with the rest, since that's all anyone ever uses. 16:27:20 <bad_pikka> not OCD 16:27:21 <bad_pikka> correct 16:27:33 <bad_pikka> you also need to make one small one 16:27:52 <bad_pikka> hmm 16:28:03 <bad_pikka> maybe that's why HEQS is so relatively popular 16:28:15 <bad_pikka> it just adds biggest possible truck for any year 16:28:29 <Pikka> :] 16:28:57 <bad_pikka> I've cut most of the small trucks from BANDIT :P 16:29:01 <Pikka> well, the calcutta is not only very small, but it's a seaplane, so until newairports it's pretty useless. 16:29:12 <bad_pikka> I'm leaving in the massive roadtrains which can be refitted to...smaller :P 16:29:14 <Pikka> yay :P 16:29:38 <Pikka> I can't imagine many people will want to play HQOVS without BANDIT 16:29:48 <Pikka> "WHY ARE THERE NO TRUCKS UNTIL 1930?!?!" 16:29:58 <bad_pikka> mine currently run out in 1963 or so :P 16:30:06 <bad_pikka> I am awaiting canadian imports 16:30:16 <Pikka> mm, canadian improts 16:30:32 <bad_pikka> maple syrup? 16:30:38 <Pikka> fancy 16:30:53 * bad_pikka has been pondering food industry chain 16:30:56 <V453000> I've often thought when making vehicle sets that I should just make the 5 biggest/most powerful vehicles and not bother with the rest, since that's all anyone ever uses. <- solution to that is to make every vehicle the strongest one in its era ;) 16:31:04 <bad_pikka> oranges -> orange juice :P 16:31:21 <bad_pikka> eggs -> custard 16:31:49 <bad_pikka> blood -> black pudding 16:32:54 *** bad_pikka is now known as andythenorth 16:33:03 <Pikka> blood + white bits -> black pudding 16:34:33 <Pikka> V453000: exactly, that produces much the same result. 16:35:49 <V453000> partially, it gives more vehicles that "everyone uses" 16:35:56 <Pikka> if I left out all the aircraft in av8 which were not bigger than everything that came before, av8 would contain 8 vehicles 16:36:08 <andythenorth> where do 'white bits' come from? 16:36:25 <Pikka> from ripping yarns, andythenorth 16:36:28 <glx> polo 16:36:30 <andythenorth> also 8 vehicles in av8 is pretty nice 16:36:39 <glx> oups wrong chan 16:36:43 <andythenorth> no no 16:36:49 <andythenorth> it made perfect sense in this context 16:37:13 <andythenorth> input: sugar, holes; output: polo mints 16:37:39 <Pikka> HP42, Constellation, Stratocruiser, Brittania, DC8, 747, A380 and JTech, that's "pretty nice"? 16:39:02 <Pikka> but join any multiplayer server running av8 and I guarantee those are the only aircraft you'll see 16:39:15 <Belugas> burp 16:39:24 <V453000> well Pikka you can reduce the power of those 5 or increase the power of the others 16:39:28 <V453000> to get more effectively 16:39:57 <Pinkbeast> ot the most powerful/fast available... 16:40:03 <Pinkbeast> Oh, darn it 16:40:14 * Pinkbeast used the UKRS1 0-6-0, 2-6-4T, 0-8-0 (after the 2-8-0), 4-6-0, Pacific, 2-8-0 (after the 9F), AL6, C321, 5AT all after they were not the most powerful/fast available. 16:40:37 <Pikka> I'm not really complaining :) there are plenty of uses for the smaller aircraft 16:40:39 <Pinkbeast> ... but the OTTD mechanics do rather militate against it 16:40:46 <Pikka> it all depends on other grfs used, playstyle, etc 16:40:59 <Pikka> and cargo destinations will make a difference too 16:42:11 <Pinkbeast> Most cargod?st schemes seem to give a role to light trains (for eg FIRS supplies) but ensure every passenger train/plane/RV will always be the hugest available. 16:42:21 <V453000> yes, UKRS has the choices for player done the best way from all train newGRFs at the moment 16:43:14 <jazzyjaffa> Pinkbeast: Isn't that partly due to the massive amount of pax that towns currently generate? 16:43:44 <Pinkbeast> Well, it's not so massive if they only want to go on one trip (in a not-cargod?st world) 16:44:28 <Pinkbeast> Oh, and the A4 even after the Merchant Navy from the addons set because bleh, Bulleid. 16:44:57 <jazzyjaffa> I can see a role for smaller pax services if town pax production/growth is tweaked a bit - maybe some towns shouldn't grow (green belts? :D ) 16:46:10 <Pikka> TaI houses limit town growth, and I believe there are also gamescripts if you'd rather do it that way 16:46:48 <jazzyjaffa> I'm doing some profiling of yacd to understand what's happening CPU usage wise. As always with this stuff the problem is that for detailed profiling you have to turn off inlining - but without inlining performance is different. 16:48:35 <Rhamphoryncus> During the money maker phase picking a cheap aircraft can work well. That only lasts for 3 or 4 aircraft though 16:49:20 <andythenorth> which makes more money, two 25t trucks, or one 50t truck? Assume total run / purchase cost is same 16:49:34 <andythenorth> also speed, power 16:49:35 <Rhamphoryncus> 25t 16:49:45 <Rhamphoryncus> Shorter period without one loading 16:50:11 <andythenorth> but twice as many breakdowns...? 16:50:22 <Rhamphoryncus> I'm guessing cargo doesn't age while the vehicle is loading, but I haven't verified it 16:50:26 <Rhamphoryncus> What's a breakdown? 16:52:26 <andythenorth> the first 25t delivery will arrive before the first 50t delivery 16:52:36 <andythenorth> so break-even comes sooner 16:52:50 <Pikka> Rhamphoryncus: if the cargo available is so little that a massive plane will spend a month each time waiting to pick up, then the smaller plane is clearly a better option. but of course, with normal OpenTTD town growth and a 2048* map, the supply of passengers is practically unlimited 16:52:51 <andythenorth> so interest on debt is lower 16:53:27 <Pikka> I only play 256* maps, and with a small number of low-growth towns, my aircraft fleet is mainly 737s and ERJs. 16:53:40 <Rhamphoryncus> Shorter period without loading -> higher station rating -> higher volume -> more money 16:53:45 <michi_cc> jazzyjaffa: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/YACD-gameloop.png 16:54:03 <jazzyjaffa> michi_cc: Yeah I saw that, thats with inlining on right? 16:54:08 <Rhamphoryncus> But if you mean 20 25t trucks vs 10 50t trucks then it's insignificant 16:54:38 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:54:59 <jazzyjaffa> michi_cc: BTW, nice patch, really easy to understand what is going on. 16:55:06 <Rhamphoryncus> Pikka: I mean literally the first 3 or 4 aircraft built in a game. After that you might as well switch to the 747 or whatever's best at the time 16:55:16 <michi_cc> I'm not totally sure, but I think yes. I also had one with inline disabled just in the Yapf part of YACD, but I think the image isn't from that. 16:55:21 <andythenorth> is 10 50t trucks vs 1 500t truck significant? 16:55:33 <Pikka> Rhamphoryncus: why, if your airports aren't producing enough passengers to fill a 747? 16:55:51 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 16:56:01 <Pikka> but I realise the way most people play openttd, supply of passengers is not an issue 16:56:04 <Rhamphoryncus> a single truck is going to leave the station without anything loading 16:56:16 <Rhamphoryncus> Pikka: well, maybe if you're focusing on pax the entire game 16:56:40 <Rhamphoryncus> I usually focus on trains and throw in planes/boats/trucks just for flavour 16:57:10 * andythenorth is fooling with an argument about continuous (single piece) flow versus largest possible batch size :P 16:57:21 <andythenorth> unless you're a production geek, it might not be interesting :P 16:57:51 <Pinkbeast> Rhamp: Well, there isn't much you can move with aircraft besides pax. Not nothing, but not a lot. 16:57:58 <jazzyjaffa> michi_cc: My main thought is that the penalties due to waiting cargo are making the pf explore more of the network than is desirable. (although they are a needed part of the algorithm to make it work well) 16:58:18 <Pikka> Pinkbeast: except anything 16:58:23 <Pikka> especially with refitting orders 16:58:35 <Rhamphoryncus> Pinkbeast: I've largely avoided pax lately, other than token efforts to pacify towns. Still haven't tried YACD 16:59:13 <Pikka> I found in my latest test games that the B1900 is a very good for valuables connections 16:59:21 <andythenorth> YACD rocks. It also eats battery, and has some unfortunate edge cases :D 17:00:00 <Pikka> TaI towns also produce a lot of mail, so I find flying goods in and mail out quite profitable 17:00:12 <michi_cc> Many things make the PF slow, but ultimately A* is simply not the best algorithm for packet routing. 17:00:21 <andythenorth> Pikka: refitting :o 17:00:22 <Rhamphoryncus> Pikka: huh, haven't tried that 17:00:37 <andythenorth> Pikka: are you sure you're not DHL? 17:00:55 <Pikka> ja 17:01:13 <Pikka> also, the A400 kicks serious cargo backside 17:01:27 <Pikka> 120 crates / 60t out of small airports at 480mph :) 17:01:43 <jazzyjaffa> michi_cc: Yes, but I see why you started with this approach given the structure of the gameloop 17:02:39 <Rhamphoryncus> Pikka: what other things could be used to give aircraft tradeoffs? Different cargo specialities? Flight speed vs airport density (all aircraft take the same space regardless of capacity)? 17:03:22 <andythenorth> it's kind of the same as trucks: not a lot can be done 17:03:25 <Pikka> newairports will make a big difference. it will be good to have granularity beyond "small" and "large" 17:04:06 <Rhamphoryncus> I've been meaning to use more of the coal trucks 17:04:07 <Pikka> at the moment, there's no airports you can operate a pc12 out of that you can't operate a 737 out of 17:04:10 *** einKarl [~einKarl@188-193-234-163-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 17:04:35 <ffpp> "YACD rocks." << how is it compared to CargoDist, performance-wise and other ? 17:05:02 <andythenorth> plane/airport situation is somewhat equivalent to truck/roadtypes situation 17:05:09 <Rhamphoryncus> Pikka: and the ability to scale up the airport. Sufficient runways and you can pick flight speed over cargo capacity 17:05:53 <Pikka> well, unlikely 17:06:43 <Pikka> "speed vs capacity" isn't a thing in the real world any more than the "range vs capacity" that some people suggested 17:06:52 <Terkhen> ffpp: performance-wise I don't know; cargodist is updated and it uses distribution, YACD is outdated and uses destinations 17:07:00 <Pikka> the biggest aircraft tend to be the fastest anyway, just like the biggest aircraft tend to have the longest range 17:07:05 <Rhamphoryncus> Who cares about the real world? I want a fun game :P 17:07:31 <Pikka> well, if you want to create a "fun" grf with illogical stats, no-one's stopping you. 17:08:05 <Rhamphoryncus> So what's the real tradeoff? Cost, obviously, and having enough volume to justify the size? 17:08:23 <Pikka> volume and airport capabilities 17:08:26 <Chris_Booth> Rhamphoryncus: or just go nuts! make everything super small 17:08:41 <andythenorth> and noise 17:08:47 <andythenorth> runway length 17:08:54 <Rhamphoryncus> Chris_Booth: flying hover bus? :D 17:09:04 <Pikka> those both fall under "airport capabilites", andy :P 17:09:16 <andythenorth> watching a 747 land on the airport in mauritius is interesting 17:09:28 <andythenorth> it's pretty much 747 minimum length afaict 17:09:35 <andythenorth> and relatively rolling 17:09:43 <Rhamphoryncus> If you could expand an airport piecemeal then there wouldn't be such a strong push to upgrade to the biggest airport ASAP 17:09:47 <andythenorth> you see the wings bounce a lot :P 17:10:27 <Pikka> the way to combat the "push to upgrade" is to make the upgrade, usually, unneccessary, Rhamphoryncus 17:10:35 <Pikka> which again comes down to town growth and map size 17:11:04 <andythenorth> iirc, railroad tycoon pax would pay a premium for travelling in cool vehicles, e.g. streamlined etc 17:11:20 <andythenorth> ottd has a very bad proxy for this in the 'vehicle age' station rating factor 17:11:49 <Pikka> you can also adjust the cargo decay factor on the vehicles now, andy 17:12:07 <andythenorth> ...is also my thought :) 17:12:20 <Rhamphoryncus> Upgrading is a pain. Level the area, bulldoze town buildings that encroached (hope there's no industries), check that the town isn't so pissed that you can't rebuild, modify all the orders temporarily so they skip this station, wait for it to clear, bulldoze, rebuild, restore orders 17:13:06 <Rhamphoryncus> If you wait until it's needed, rather than when it's first available, it becomes that much harder 17:13:33 <Pikka> my point is it should never be needed, Rhamphoryncus 17:13:37 <Rhamphoryncus> Although the game I just played had "towns build roads" turned off, which was surprisingly nice 17:14:17 <Rhamphoryncus> Pikka: So no growth? 17:14:37 <Pikka> plenty of growth 17:15:16 * andythenorth has considered patching so that the biggest airport is available at game start 17:15:20 <andythenorth> solves the problem :P 17:15:27 <Pikka> plenty of growth in the UK IRL, but you don't have a Heathrow in every Chipping Sodbury 17:15:39 <Pikka> patch, andy? GRF 17:16:04 <CornishPasty> Sodding Chipbury :P 17:16:09 <andythenorth> Pikka: have you been to Chipping Sodbury? Pretty much like Heathrow 17:16:10 <Rhamphoryncus> And real life has more than 8 aircraft 17:16:11 <Pikka> there too 17:16:33 <Pikka> so does av8, Rhamphoryncus 17:16:39 <Rhamphoryncus> Not that get used 17:16:52 <CornishPasty> HIYOOO 17:17:04 *** jazzyjaffa [~jazzyjaff@213.123.113.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:23 *** jazzyjaffa [~jazzyjaff@94-193-52-238.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:17:35 <Rhamphoryncus> I'm quoting you there. My experience is less than 8 17:17:52 <Rhamphoryncus> Hrm. Possibly because I'm not using pax. 17:18:11 * lobster tumbles into t'channel 17:18:13 <Pikka> only, and we're back to the beginning again, because of 2048* maps with silly-sized towns 17:18:35 <Pikka> tumble off, you. 17:18:43 <lobster> are there any Russians or Russian-speaking people in here? 17:18:52 <andythenorth> what are we chatting about again? 17:18:57 * lobster slaps Pikka in the dangly parts 17:18:59 <andythenorth> oh yes, players are annoying 17:19:05 <Pikka> yes 17:19:19 <andythenorth> but we need them 17:19:29 <Pikka> only sometimes :) 17:20:52 <andythenorth> also my truck set is still de-motivatingly broken :P 17:21:07 *** MeanEYE [~meaneye@109.94.96.2] has joined #openttd 17:21:54 <MeanEYE> Hi there. Where can I find instructions on how to make a dedicated OpenTTD server without Xorg? 17:21:55 <ffpp> Terkhen: I know the difference in their main ideas, but I never read anywhere how much of difference it makes gameplay-wise when the destinations demand transport rather than you initiating everything 17:22:09 <andythenorth> all the difference 17:22:15 <Terkhen> for that you'll need to test it :) 17:22:16 <andythenorth> it's significantly much better on average 17:22:32 <ffpp> ahh, I knew it ;) 17:23:24 <andythenorth> hmm 17:23:32 <andythenorth> maybe I should rethink my truck classes 17:23:52 <Pikka> what do you have at the moment? 17:24:13 <andythenorth> express, normal, heavy duty, in a range of sizes 17:24:23 <andythenorth> and also I'm trying to reflect real life model variation 17:24:31 <Pikka> eep 17:24:38 *** MeanEYE [~meaneye@109.94.96.2] has quit [] 17:24:43 <andythenorth> I could just simplify to: line-haul (big) and local (small) 17:24:46 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fed13.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:25:16 <andythenorth> it does seem to be what the game needs: big and small 17:28:10 <andythenorth> but also, because of drive-in stops, I have to duplicate a lot of sizes 17:29:08 <andythenorth> I want BANDIT to offer articulated trucks, with variable number of trailers, because that interests me 17:29:09 <Pikka> eh 17:29:13 <Pikka> yes 17:29:21 <andythenorth> but I also have to provide non-trailer trucks in a wide range of sizes 17:29:26 <Pikka> well 17:29:28 <Pikka> I don't see why 17:29:36 <andythenorth> 'have' is a removable word 17:29:37 <Pikka> if people want "big", they have to go artic 17:30:00 <andythenorth> or I put down BANDIT, and figure out rv-wagons 17:30:04 <andythenorth> but I tried that once :( 17:30:22 * andythenorth predicts further truck removal from BANDIT 17:30:39 <Pikka> http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6030/5942587123_1966412a40_o.jpg 17:30:39 <andythenorth> less 'too big'. 17:30:51 <andythenorth> indeed 17:31:03 <andythenorth> every home should have one 17:31:06 <Pikka> yes 17:31:08 <Pikka> it is fancy 17:31:15 <Pikka> no-one will use it 17:31:20 <Pikka> unless/until seaplaneports, at least 17:32:41 <andythenorth> hmm 17:32:50 <andythenorth> why is designing a ship set so easy? :P 17:33:05 <Pikka> is it? 17:33:07 <andythenorth> ships really just balance out, no problems, no hassles 17:33:19 <andythenorth> or at least nobody tells me any problems with FISH :P 17:33:32 <Pikka> everything is introduced in 1870 17:33:43 <andythenorth> yeah that 17:33:47 <andythenorth> file under 'unfinished' 17:33:48 <Pikka> :) 17:33:51 <andythenorth> designing is easy 17:33:55 <andythenorth> drawing is not :P 17:34:18 <andythenorth> seems also my CGI artist didn't know about dimetric, which is why lots of FISH ships just look wrong 17:34:42 <andythenorth> but I'm not redrawing them again :P 17:36:31 <Pikka> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dornier_Seastar_Wolfgangsee.jpg ho ho dat registration 17:36:53 <andythenorth> :) 17:37:06 <andythenorth> btw, fancy 'upgrading' your Puffer to look like FISH style? 17:37:18 <Pikka> how so? the FISH ships look okay to me... 17:37:24 <Pikka> hmm possibly, what does it need? 17:37:31 <Pikka> less black hull? 17:37:35 <andythenorth> I tried putting it in, but scale and style don't really quite fit 17:37:38 <andythenorth> hard to say more 17:37:56 <andythenorth> I can't really explain FISH style, all I can say is DanMacK nailed it first time when he contributed :P 17:38:01 <andythenorth> he's a good one that one 17:38:08 <Pikka> well, I guess if the lighting is rendered differently, it might be hard to make it match 17:38:14 <Pikka> I thought the fishies were all rendered? 17:38:23 <Pikka> +drawn over, of course 17:38:52 <Pikka> I never really cleaned up the puffer properly, I rendered it then lost interest 17:39:05 <andythenorth> FISH is drawn over a lot, or from scratch 17:39:17 <andythenorth> and quite a lot of chop+shut which works surprisingly well 17:40:57 <Pikka> hmm 17:41:27 <andythenorth> I've got a nice render of this waiting for paint: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_Craft_Air_Cushion 17:41:44 <andythenorth> and I started backdating the coasters to older models 17:42:02 <andythenorth> Dan did one angle of an awesome 1870s coaster to taunt me with, then went silent :P 17:42:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24077 /trunk/src/lang/ (latvian.txt romanian.txt vietnamese.txt): 17:42:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:42:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 94 changes by Parastais 17:42:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: romanian - 2 changes by kkmic 17:42:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 1 changes by nglekhoi 17:44:14 <andythenorth> Pikka: view 7 here, first row http://hg.openttdcoop.org/fish/raw-file/7054993646ed/sprites/graphics/coaster_large_gen1.png 17:46:01 <Pikka> hmm :) 17:46:06 <andythenorth> if someone prodded me (i.e. with sprites), I could get FISH to 1.0.0, e.g. models change over time, and cargo support 17:46:17 <Pikka> and pre-1870? ;) 17:46:20 <andythenorth> meh 17:46:21 <andythenorth> sails :P 17:46:27 <andythenorth> although... 17:46:58 <andythenorth> I had the idea to use one set of sails repeatedly 17:47:00 <andythenorth> anyway - bathtime 17:47:05 <Pikka> k 17:47:14 <Pikka> sails are definitely a render job I reckon :) 17:47:21 <ffpp> is it normal that I cannot click towns anymore with yacd ? 17:47:38 <ffpp> the description at least says 'click town to see where cargo wants to go' 17:49:38 <ffpp> and the town's names aren't displayed either 17:49:46 <jazzyjaffa> ffpp: In the town view or station view? 17:50:03 <ffpp> in the main view 17:50:32 <Pikka> "town names displayed" in the option menu? D; 17:52:27 <ffpp> Pikka, you mean the Town Names option in the game options ? its set to english, nothing else available though 17:52:48 <jazzyjaffa> ffpp: YACD doesn't touch the code for displaying town names in the main view. 17:53:01 <ffpp> strange 17:53:20 <jazzyjaffa> ffpp: Click the cog - 'Town names displayed' should have a checkmark 17:54:52 <ffpp> jazzyjaffa, thanks 17:54:54 <jazzyjaffa> ffpp: http://i.imgur.com/X8MEL.png 17:55:06 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 17:55:22 <CQ> whats teh best way to upgrade to maglev, recall all trains, and then upgrade all at once? 17:55:25 <jazzyjaffa> ffpp: np, this game has many places for settings ;) 17:55:37 <ffpp> I'm playing this game for a couple of years and have never bothered to look below 'transparency options' as it seems ... 17:56:34 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-239.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:56:43 <jazzyjaffa> ffpp: "full animation" and "full detail" set to off makes fast-forward extra-fast-forward 17:56:50 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-239.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 17:56:58 <Terkhen> CQ: I usually don't bother, I just send the old trains to a depot and build new ones 17:58:03 <ffpp> jazzyjaffa, it does ;) 17:59:47 *** einKarl [~einKarl@188-193-234-163-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [] 18:02:56 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:05:14 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 18:09:40 *** jazzyjaffa [~jazzyjaff@94-193-52-238.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:04 *** jazzyjaffa [~jazzyjaff@94-193-52-238.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:12:46 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178214089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:17:50 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:53 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:28:57 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:31:28 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:33:46 *** pugi_ [~pugi@host-091-097-044-104.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 18:34:53 <CQ> can you transfer oil from a tanker to a train somehow? 18:34:56 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-044-104.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:34:58 *** pugi_ is now known as pugi 18:34:59 <andythenorth> Pikka: sails could be placed on hulls by pixa, removing some of the tedium 18:35:13 <Pikka> true that 18:35:17 <andythenorth> sail + mast 18:35:29 <andythenorth> also makes different sail states a bit less boring to do 18:35:39 <andythenorth> which way does the wind go though? :P 18:35:51 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:36:04 <andythenorth> if you're done on UKRS and AV8, you need a new project right? :P 18:36:08 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:36:26 <Pikka> apart from my website, TaI and HQOUS, you mean? :) 18:37:17 <Pinkbeast> What's a HQOUS, please? 18:37:20 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:25 <andythenorth> I'll draw you some TaI :P 18:37:42 <Pinkbeast> andy: I'd love to see a prevailing wind so sailing ships have a unique flavour 18:37:49 <andythenorth> buildings luxuriously only have one angle 18:39:31 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:39:51 <frosch123> CQ: http://wiki.openttd.org/Feeder_service 18:40:17 <Pikka> road vehicles, Pinkbeast 18:40:31 <Pikka> and no they don't, andy, not in TaI :) 18:40:45 * Rhamphoryncus manages to lose another game in the first 5 minutes 18:41:52 <Pikka> andy: I shouldn't think the wind direction will make much of a difference 18:42:31 <Pikka> your ships will be of a size that they're mainly square rigged, you can't change the speed based on direction, and if we change the sail loading by direction people will just think it's a bug 18:43:30 <Pinkbeast> Speed based on direction would be lovely, though (but even if it could be done in a grf, the pathfinder would have to be aware, etc...) 18:45:26 <andythenorth> you can change the speed based on angle of rotation... 18:45:33 <andythenorth> it's an 80+ var, I looked into it ;) 18:45:44 <andythenorth> but it might be crappy 18:45:48 <Pikka> yes, but you can't 18:45:58 <andythenorth> oh 18:46:07 <Pikka> the speed is cached, it will only be updated when the vehicle leaves the depot I'm guessing 18:46:12 <andythenorth> ach 18:46:27 <andythenorth> it changes when leaving stations 18:46:32 <andythenorth> but yes 18:46:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i think my mind is melting 18:47:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i read "Pikkabeast" and was horribly confused... 18:47:24 * Pinkbeast has the sudden urge to draw locomotives 18:47:38 *** andythenorth is now known as Eddi|zuPikka 18:50:19 *** Eddi|zuPikka is now known as andy|zuHause 18:50:57 *** andy|zuHause is now known as andydunord 18:51:02 *** andydunord is now known as andythenorth 18:51:40 *** Pikka is now known as opludge 18:51:51 *** opludge is now known as Pikka 18:52:11 *** andythenorth is now known as frosch234 18:52:47 *** frosch234 is now known as Rubidium` 18:52:47 <frosch123> wow, that highlighted me :o 18:52:49 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 18:52:56 *** Rubidium` is now known as quak 18:53:06 <frosch123> that as well :p 18:53:10 * quak should stop dicking around and get on with writing the 5 year plan 18:53:18 *** quak is now known as andythe5yearplan 18:53:31 <frosch123> oh crap, that highlights me everytime you say something :s 18:53:41 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:54:09 <andythe5yearplan> if you change your nick to rv-wagons, that will highlight me every time :P 18:54:16 * andythe5yearplan lives in hope, despite evidence 18:56:17 *** andythe5yearplan is now known as andythenorth 19:07:42 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-239.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:54 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-239.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 19:07:56 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:08:08 <planetmaker> 20:37 CQ: can you transfer oil from a tanker to a train somehow? <-- yes. Use transfer orders. And build a joint station with dock and tracks 19:08:59 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:10:28 <Rhamphoryncus> Also, trained monkeys. Covered in oil. 19:13:29 <planetmaker> sounds like tuna fish. just different 19:14:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never seen trained tuna fish before 19:14:16 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:14:42 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure i've ever seen an actual tuna fish anyway 19:15:33 <planetmaker> on TV I did. But there's a variety of different tuna fish 19:16:01 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:17:12 <supermop> i've seen them for sale in tsukiji market 19:17:16 <supermop> quite big 19:17:59 <planetmaker> yeah. and tasty ;-) 19:18:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea how it tastes 19:19:25 <Eddi|zuHause> when i eat fish, it's usually herring 19:19:43 <planetmaker> you never ate tuna fish? Not even canned? 19:20:01 <Eddi|zuHause> if i did, i forgot 19:22:31 <telanus> I've seen a tuna, once at the harbour. it was a small tuna 19:24:25 <Pinkbeast> Or as part of sushi. Mmm, sushi. 19:24:54 *** Nat_aS is now known as rv-wagons 19:25:08 *** rv-wagons is now known as CHIPS 19:25:17 *** CHIPS is now known as CHIPS-is-taken 19:25:22 *** CHIPS-is-taken is now known as Nat_aS 19:27:01 * Rhamphoryncus ⥠chips 19:27:18 <andythenorth> more CHIPS soon 19:27:35 <Rhamphoryncus> What sort of more? :D 19:28:34 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:28:42 <andythenorth> few extra features 19:28:57 <Rhamphoryncus> Although I should qualify that and say I mostly just use the platforms and blank tiles. The misc buildings rarely get use 19:28:58 <andythenorth> not a big update, more of a nibble 19:31:50 <Rhamphoryncus> But for such simple things the platforms have a surprising amount of interest 19:32:24 <Pinkbeast> Well, being able to plunk down a reasonable-looking station without agonising over it is no bad thing... 19:32:48 <Pikka> there we go 19:33:00 <Pikka> http://www.pruplethingz.com/junk/boeing747.png 19:33:47 <Pinkbeast> Errr interesting filename 19:34:35 <Rhamphoryncus> I use a ton of other station grfs too, but since CHIPS provides cargo waiting for pickup stations.. 19:37:41 *** zooks_ [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 19:37:51 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-106-216.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:38:21 <andythenorth> definitely looks like a 7forty7 19:43:40 <frosch123> night 19:43:43 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fed13.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:15 *** zooks_ [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:50:57 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-105-235.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:55:34 *** ffpp [~me@dslb-188-107-129-195.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ffpp] 19:56:00 <CQ> can any of the futuristic planes land on helipads or just the copters? 19:56:26 <Achilleshiel> just copters 19:57:01 <Pikka> if they could land on helipads, then they'd be helicopters by definition 19:59:41 <Eddi|zuHause> zeppelins can land on helipads :) 19:59:55 <Pikka> zeppelins are helicopters! 20:00:02 <Pikka> as far as openttd is concerned, anyway ;) 20:00:12 <Eddi|zuHause> (that should probably be fixed with newairports) 20:00:19 <Pikka> yes 20:01:06 <Eddi|zuHause> ("landing type IDs" -> "PLAN", "HELI", "ZEPP", "SEAP", ...) 20:01:42 <Pikka> planetables 20:01:48 <Rubidium> CRSH! 20:01:50 <Pikka> planet ables 20:01:59 <Eddi|zuHause> probably the runway length should be encoded in there as well 20:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. "small plane" and "large plane" 20:02:14 <Pikka> yes 20:03:07 <Pikka> plane type tables and var-2 based statemachines which can send aircraft to different places based on variables including the plane type 20:03:24 <andythenorth> what is this newairports of speak you which? 20:03:33 <Pikka> it isn't 20:03:36 <Pikka> well 20:03:42 <andythenorth> speaking not of it 20:03:45 <Pikka> it is about 50% 20:03:59 <andythenorth> I even have a grf here 20:04:02 <Eddi|zuHause> everything is done. except the interesting parts :p 20:04:05 <Pikka> and then people lost interest and/or gave up :) 20:04:11 <andythenorth> a wind turbine where your helicopter can land 20:04:19 <andythenorth> and also an industry airport 20:04:29 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host205-58-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:04:38 <Wolf01> hello 20:06:17 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 20:08:00 <Pikka> av8ports is in a state, I never even finished planning out what airports I would make 20:08:10 <Pikka> but really what I should do is draw them all and code it and release the grf 20:08:29 <Pikka> a new set of airports, all unusable :) 20:08:45 <Pikka> that might be a bit more of a spur to newairports getting completed 20:09:27 <Pikka> so many things to do, so little time. my holiday ends april 1st too... 20:09:33 <andythenorth> uh oh 20:10:01 <Pikka> I have to start finding things to do that make money then :[ 20:10:27 <Eddi|zuHause> money is overrated 20:10:32 <Rubidium> maybe you can work on p1sim ; 20:10:32 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 20:10:38 <Pikka> it's a point of view, Eddi|zuHause 20:10:50 <Pikka> of course Rubidium 20:11:01 <Pikka> p1sim is going to be the next minecraft and I'll make millions 20:11:16 <andythenorth> â¬8.99 per download 20:11:24 * Pinkbeast read his design document; I'm awfully glad I don't live in the world of P1SIM, leaving the house between 0400 and 0600 and returning from work between 2000 and 2200 in a city where everyone owns a stinking car 20:11:41 *** tx [~rxtx@ovpn83222.hs-esslingen.de] has joined #openttd 20:12:02 <Pikka> except, of course, if p1sim was going to be the next minecraft it would have started making millions about a year and a half ago 20:12:05 <Eddi|zuHause> everybody knows that free-to-play with payable addon-content is the new model of making money on the internet 20:12:14 <andythenorth> newgrf authors win 20:12:18 <Pikka> no, eddi 20:12:21 <tx> hi, is there a way to reduce simulation speed? 20:12:23 <Rubidium> I'm sure it'll make millions 20:12:28 <Pikka> it's the new model of trying to make money on the internet :) 20:12:31 <andythenorth> how much % do you want Rubidium for owning the store? :P 20:12:44 <Rubidium> ... of characters of pre-development documentation 20:12:45 * andythenorth makes money on the internet 20:13:18 <Eddi|zuHause> tx: only the pause button 20:13:34 <andythenorth> having customers who pay for stuff is the magic secret 20:13:41 <Eddi|zuHause> (or the F1 key, respectively) 20:13:44 <andythenorth> to get that you make stuff people want 20:14:12 <andythenorth> having a price helps 20:14:26 <andythenorth> you know...capitalism and crap 20:14:35 <tx> Eddi|zuHause: that's fine for local, but on a dedicated server, it runs with around 100years/day that's way to fast 20:14:49 <Eddi|zuHause> you're right. don't give people what they need. only give them what they want. 20:14:53 <Pinkbeast> Ah, you want a daylength multiplier patch, tx 20:15:17 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I actually learnt that the hard way :P 20:15:32 <andythenorth> but you can subtract 'only' 20:15:33 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: No, don't give them what they want, give them what they ask for. 20:15:44 <tx> Pinkbeast: If it can slow down this thing yes :) 20:16:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Prof_Frink: that's for the really advanced people :) 20:16:05 <andythenorth> that's nice on day rates, with time and materials :P 20:16:10 <andythenorth> I wouldn't recommend it for products 20:16:21 <andythenorth> or fixed fee contracting 20:17:00 <tx> Pinkbeast: will it be needed on every client or is the server enough? 20:17:24 <Pinkbeast> I don't know, I'm afraid. 20:17:57 <andythenorth> if you get paid on whether the thing actually works, then you actually do give the customer what they need 20:19:38 <Prof_Frink> Thankfully we get paid on whether we've shown the thing *should* work. 20:20:43 <planetmaker> tx: a dedixated server runs the same speed as other openttd. except fast-forward (single player only) and pausing there's no speed setting anywhere 20:20:47 <andythenorth> how interesting 20:21:13 <andythenorth> do you poke it with a sharp stick and say "she'll probably do" ? 20:21:31 <tx> planetmaker: so independent of hardware two clients always have the same speed? 20:21:35 <planetmaker> yes 20:21:47 <planetmaker> unless hardware is too slow to maintain the fixed speed 20:22:06 <Pinkbeast> Errr surely tx is asking about daylength not ticks-per-real-second 20:22:12 <planetmaker> yes, he is 20:22:19 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:22:23 <planetmaker> most probably. And I'm saying: err_no_such_setting 20:23:30 <tx> planetmaker, Pinkbeast thx for the answer then maybe i have to use another way like pausing after the last client disconnects 20:23:30 <Pinkbeast> Surely one can run a dedicated server with a daylength patch on it? 20:23:51 <planetmaker> tx: learn to use min_active_client 20:24:21 <planetmaker> Pinkbeast: surely that's not possible unless you patch it and give the same patch to all clients 20:24:35 <Nat_aS> changing daylenght wont change the speed things move right? 20:24:43 <planetmaker> that depends 20:24:43 <Nat_aS> just the date and prices? 20:24:48 <planetmaker> that depends 20:24:49 <tx> planetmaker: yeah that was what i'm going to use thanks 20:25:04 <Pinkbeast> planetmaker: Well, yes. But that is not impossible. And it would be one approach to tx's problem. 20:25:07 <Nat_aS> because I think the date progresses too fast but trains go too slowly 20:25:25 <Prof_Frink> andythenorth: No, we carefully avoid making anything and just play with computers. 20:25:27 <tx> i hoped for a way to slow down days without modifying the clients 20:25:32 <planetmaker> Pinkbeast: quite inconvenient, if you want to setup a server though. 20:25:39 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:25:44 <planetmaker> no player will be able to connect unless he als gets a custom build 20:26:00 <andythenorth> Prof_Frink: you're simulating atomic weapons? 20:27:30 <Prof_Frink> andythenorth: No, but we have done some work on weapon delivery systems. 20:27:55 <Prof_Frink> I've also done some work on bomb-disposal robots, so it's all balanced. 20:28:07 <andythenorth> so sharp sticks are involved :P 20:28:12 <andythenorth> but they go 'bang' 20:28:25 *** kaenkky_ [~kaenkky_@GGZYYYKMMMCXCIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 20:29:22 <tx> thx and gn8 20:30:05 <Prof_Frink> It's slightly diconcerting that on a multi-million-pound aircraft you can have the instruction "Poke it with a stick and wiggle it about until it fits". 20:31:10 <andythenorth> you work at EADS? :P 20:32:57 <Prof_Frink> No, this was for Rolls. But I've told you too much. I'll have to kill you now. 20:33:07 <andythenorth> poke it with a mop from chipping sodbury 20:34:24 <Prof_Frink> The company we were working with on this project is based just up the road from Chipping Sodbury. 20:34:47 <Prof_Frink> It's an Aerospace company. In Yate. 20:35:02 *** zooks_ [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 20:35:08 <andythenorth> no mops in Yate 20:35:12 <andythenorth> or sharp sticks 20:35:23 *** kaenkky [~kaenkky_@GYYYMMMCMXCIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:35:59 <Eddi|zuHause> do they produce Yate Hogans? 20:36:13 <Eddi|zuHause> (or what were they called again?) 20:36:34 <__ln__> Haugan 20:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause> (man i clearly haven't played with original vehicles in years) 20:36:51 <andythenorth> probably named after Yate 20:37:26 <Eddi|zuHause> most vehicles are named after people who appear in the credits 20:38:39 <andythenorth> some are UK place names 20:38:39 <Prof_Frink> Or places near MicroProse's head office. 20:40:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i never understood why they changed the names anyway... they were "correct" in the original TT. the "mangled" names only appeared in the world editor 20:41:19 <andythenorth> didn't want to get sued probably 20:41:57 *** jazzyjaffa [~jazzyjaff@94-193-52-238.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:11 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196-210-232-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has left #openttd [] 20:44:00 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 20:50:41 <Terkhen> good night 21:05:24 *** zooks_ [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:10:39 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:52 *** zooks_ [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 21:19:02 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A88F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:59 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 12.0/20120321033733]] 21:27:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:28:25 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:38:08 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:41:14 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 21:45:58 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-239.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 21:46:19 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-239.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 21:49:05 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.67.234] has joined #openttd 21:51:52 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:54:50 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-239.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:55:12 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 21:59:43 <__ln__> Wolf01: pre-emptive 'night 21:59:56 <Wolf01> lol 22:01:34 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 22:01:37 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 22:03:34 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:06:42 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:12:06 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-105-235.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:16:51 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:20:27 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 22:20:30 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 22:26:15 <Wolf01> 'night all 22:26:20 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host205-58-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:34:49 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:38:10 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 22:42:06 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-106-216.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:48:30 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-151.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 22:50:49 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:07:33 *** CQ [~chatzilla@p4FD0FBB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:31:03 <DDR> So at this point, Mike has to pour his Fireball on her to put her out, but then she says "That wasn't my dog"! XD 23:31:08 <DDR> oops, wrong channel. 23:32:32 *** zooks_ [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:34 *** CQ [~chatzilla@p4FD0FBB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:42:28 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has left #openttd [] 23:42:29 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 23:42:33 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 23:53:49 *** CQ [~chatzilla@p4FD0FBB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120310010316]]