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[~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:50:36 *** Maarten_ [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 07:52:49 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:53:11 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:22:00 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196-210-232-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 08:28:50 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196-210-232-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:31:54 *** CQ [~chatzilla@p4FD0FF79.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:42:52 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 08:49:53 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120310011224]] 08:49:56 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178214089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 08:57:55 <GBerten2936> #Bend it, bend it, just a little bit. And take it easy, show you're likin' it. 08:58:19 *** GBerten2936 is now known as lugo 08:58:44 <lugo> ah well andythenorth isn't here anyways.. 08:58:49 * lugo stops singing 09:08:30 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-006-094.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:29:51 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-151.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:51:37 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 09:58:01 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 10:01:27 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 10:06:11 <Terkhen> hello :) 10:07:15 <Eddi|zuHause> why does a program (that ran before (long ago)) say that msxml4 is not installed, but winetricks says it is installed? 10:08:46 <Rhamphoryncus> ahoy 10:09:03 <Rhamphoryncus> different wine configs? 10:09:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i gave the proper WINEPREFIX 10:09:26 <Eddi|zuHause> both times 10:09:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and i checked, winetricks does give different results when leaving it out 10:10:38 <Eddi|zuHause> but there doesn't seem to be a "force" option 10:18:59 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:23:19 <MNIM> I dunno, eddi, but in my personal experience wine is a roulette. 10:23:28 <MNIM> one day it works, the other day it doesn't. 10:27:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i find it quite rare that something stops working, after it worked once 10:27:12 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178214089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:27:31 <MNIM> muh. every day experience to me. 10:27:50 <Rhamphoryncus> My success rate with wine is probably.. 25%? 10:29:46 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 10:29:57 <Terkhen> I had some success, but it was my 0% success rate with new game releases what drove me back 10:32:45 <Rhamphoryncus> Usually it's ones that are listed as working too 10:34:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that may depend on graphics card and stuff 10:35:39 <Rhamphoryncus> Could very well 10:36:27 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178232013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:36:43 <Eddi|zuHause> and most problems are (still) due to copy protection mechanisms failing 10:38:19 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i just try installing it again 10:38:56 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:44:12 <Eddi|zuHause> "cool" ... the installer fails also :) 10:45:47 <Eddi|zuHause> err:msi:ITERATE_Actions Execution halted, action L"ISVerifyScriptingRuntime" returned 1603 10:46:01 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever that means 10:48:40 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.237] has joined #openttd 10:48:59 *** Peping [~chatzilla@fw3.khfree.net] has joined #openttd 10:49:38 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-188-102-141-251.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 10:50:44 <Peping> Hello, if I want to create a new disaster object, like Zeppelin or so, using NewGRF, what feature do I specify it as? 10:51:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you can specify new disasters via newgrf 10:51:15 <Peping> I thought it should be FEAT_OBJECTS but I'm not so sure. 10:51:20 <Peping> really? 10:51:52 <Eddi|zuHause> FEAT_OBJECTS is for lighthouses and stuff 10:52:20 <Peping> I know... And that's my other question. Can these move around? 10:52:25 <Eddi|zuHause> no 10:52:35 <Peping> alright. Thanks. 10:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> you can animate them, but only within the tiles you placed them on 10:53:59 <__ln__> so there is something newgrfs can't do?!?! 11:08:05 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 11:17:32 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:18:41 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 11:18:45 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 11:34:49 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 11:36:53 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:40:55 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 11:40:58 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 11:41:59 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:13 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 11:50:59 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 11:52:46 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has left #openttd [] 11:52:47 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 11:52:50 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 11:59:43 <planetmaker> Peping, most probably the "correct" way to implement new disasters might be via game scripts. Though it might need extension on the source code side of OpenTTD, too 12:00:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but you can't bundle graphics with a game script 12:01:12 <Eddi|zuHause> (maybe game scripts could force-activate a grf?) 12:03:20 *** jazzyjaffa [~jazzyjaff@213.123.113.33] has joined #openttd 12:07:41 <planetmaker> you can't. But iirc you can on bananas set respective dependencies. If that works (I didn't quite test that), a force-selection (or disabling the game script in the NewGRF's absence) would be an option. 12:07:47 <planetmaker> probably rather the latter 12:09:13 <Eddi|zuHause> it would definitely need GUI support to activate the grf when selecting the game script, and to tell people that removing the grf will deactivate the game script 12:09:16 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-105-235.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 12:09:33 <Eddi|zuHause> just a bananas dependency won't work 12:10:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and an action14 entry to hide the GRF from the general public 12:11:08 *** CQ [~chatzilla@p4FD0FF79.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:13:25 *** CQ [~chatzilla@p4FD0FF79.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:21:25 <planetmaker> yes, such support would make sense. though I think it can work without, oo 12:21:28 <planetmaker> *too 12:24:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r24078 /trunk/src/ (pbs.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#5093,FS#5130] (r24071): A fix that breaks all other cases isn't really a fix. Redo it to make sure that reservations of trains entering or exiting depots are properly made and freed. 12:27:56 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:28:40 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:37:21 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 12:40:10 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:f04b:8087:a03e:f901] has joined #openttd 12:40:13 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:43:08 *** cl8 [~cccc@host-92-3-224-159.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 12:51:33 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:57:27 *** Peping_ [~chatzilla@fw3.khfree.net] has joined #openttd 12:59:18 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 12:59:35 <Peping_> Any ideas where to get started on Game Scripts? 13:01:30 *** Peping [~chatzilla@fw3.khfree.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:01:39 *** Peping_ is now known as Peping 13:07:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the wiki, i suppose 13:08:51 <planetmaker> or one of the existing projects on the DevZone 13:09:10 <Peping> I found Wiki very vague. It took me some time to realize that NoGO is a synonym for Game Scripts. Found this: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=57431 13:09:53 <planetmaker> OpenTTD has a history of nice acronyms :-) 13:10:07 <planetmaker> the API is documented at nogo.openttd.org 13:13:06 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-188-102-141-251.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:19 *** Peping [~chatzilla@fw3.khfree.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643]] 13:26:45 <Belugas> hello 13:31:17 <SpComb> yags 13:55:57 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 13:58:04 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host83-217-165-40.dsl.vispa.com] has joined #openttd 14:09:51 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-151.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 14:19:25 *** ffpp [~me@dslb-188-097-226-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:29:07 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:32:10 <ffpp> does anyone who plays pax games and cargo dist actually use buses and trams inside of towns ? 14:32:50 <SpComb> yes 14:33:14 <ffpp> is there a trick to it to not get the roads crowded like stupid ? ^^ 14:33:25 <SpComb> use big trams 14:33:39 <SpComb> and keep your level of service down enough that you don't get too many pax at your stations :) 14:33:58 <ffpp> even with those I had only limited success, maybe it's me 14:34:40 <ffpp> since I discovered 2cc metros I tend to demolish a line of road through the city and just send in some metros, they usually do the job, but it looks ugly 14:37:26 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 14:37:29 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 14:41:01 <ffpp> btw, how do you keep the service level down on stations ? 14:42:16 <SpComb> provide bad service :P 14:44:03 <ffpp> when I tried that (implicitly) I just had people piling up on the station and the whole network got less efficient due to the wait times I think 14:44:40 <planetmaker> (big) trams often server a good purpose 14:45:01 <planetmaker> like those from the Japanese set. Or also the generic tram set 14:45:14 <planetmaker> s/server/serve/g 14:45:27 <planetmaker> and use many of them 14:45:46 <SpComb> but of course, some people hacked their openttd to generate fewer passengers.. 14:46:50 <planetmaker> even some people hacked openttd to implement destinations or distribution of cargo ;-) 14:47:20 <planetmaker> 'fewer people' could probably be achieved by using an appropriate house NewGRF 14:50:25 <ffpp> well, the issue only came up since cargodist for me ;) since then my roads have been regularly stuffed with RVs 14:50:52 <ffpp> I just wanted to know if I'm the only one ^^ 14:50:54 <Eddi|zuHause> well, without cargodist you never were interested whether hundreds of people piled up at the station 14:51:01 <ffpp> true 14:51:42 <Eddi|zuHause> congestion of lines should probably have feedback on station rating 14:53:20 <ffpp> yes, and over the course of time this should generate less passengers 14:55:29 <ffpp> one expirement once was: send huge local trains (7 tiles or so) around the town in two circles, one clock-wise and one ccw, but then the loading times of the trains where so long that the whole system still collapsed 14:59:36 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 15:04:30 <Eddi|zuHause> in my yacd game (http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%205.%20Nov%201988.png 12MB) i just barely managed to get the passengers transported 15:06:59 <SpComb> it's fairly impossible with the steam trains unless you flatten the entire map 15:07:26 <SpComb> but if you limit town growth, then it becomes manageable once you get modern trains (dbsetxl) 15:09:04 *** keky___ [~stefan@p5098b65a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:09:49 <ffpp> I'm using ukrs2 at the moment, starting 1850 but also with very small towns 15:10:05 <ffpp> eddi, is this 128 x 512 mapsize ? 15:10:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it was 256x512 15:10:30 <Eddi|zuHause> or 128x256 15:10:49 <Eddi|zuHause> more than 1:2 ratio makes the terrain generator look bad 15:10:51 * ffpp measures at screen with hand 15:11:07 <ffpp> 256x512 seems fitting 15:13:04 <Eddi|zuHause> lets see if i have a version which can load this game... 15:13:57 <ffpp> how many stops are included in one cycle of a bus ? 15:14:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yacd/loisachkirchen_r22434.diff that sounds right... 15:14:28 <keky___> oi 15:14:48 <Eddi|zuHause> hey that actually worked 15:19:25 <__ln__> http://www.b.dk/billedeserier/her-er-den-oedelagte-togbro-i-limfjorden 15:19:34 <Eddi|zuHause> ffpp: of a few random lines, my longest seems to be 7 stations (from end to end, so 12 in a roundtrip) 15:21:39 <ffpp> I'm surprised this is working so well ;) but it has been a while since I played a game with really large towns 15:21:40 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: "JavaScript and ActiveX must be enabled to view the image gallery" 15:21:49 <SpComb> we need an extended .psav savegame format that bundles the diff against trunk with the savegame data :) 15:22:14 <Eddi|zuHause> ffpp: the trams are manageable. the trains are struggling 15:22:16 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: lol 15:22:21 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d083e5d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:23:34 <Eddi|zuHause> ffpp: the longer the line, the less of an issue is the loading time, actually 15:24:30 <ffpp> wrt to trams ? 15:24:47 <ffpp> -to 15:25:16 <ffpp> it takes less of a portion out of the overall travel time I guess 15:26:11 *** keky___ [~stefan@p5098b65a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:27:03 <Eddi|zuHause> ffpp: key element is to timetable the trams so they do not bunch up 15:28:25 <Eddi|zuHause> ffpp: planes are near hopeless 15:28:41 <ffpp> the automatic timetable and separation patch was a blessing for that 15:29:27 <ffpp> and yes, planes seem to spend large portions of time blocking each other on airports, as I remember them at least 15:32:09 <jazzyjaffa> Eddi|zuHause: Is that save available? I'd like a large comlex net like that for testing some performance changes to yacd 15:32:50 <Eddi|zuHause> jazzyjaffa: i can give you the game and the patch 15:33:05 <Eddi|zuHause> jazzyjaffa: it's a slightly modified yacd 1.1 15:33:25 <jazzyjaffa> Eddi|zuHause: Ah ok, thanks. Would still be useful. 15:33:26 <Eddi|zuHause> (some backported yacd 2.x patches) 15:33:46 <jazzyjaffa> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah I can hack it to get it loaded 15:34:30 <ffpp> would one need many newgrfs to load it properly ? 15:36:51 <michi_cc> jazzyjaffa: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/yacd_testgame.sav together with http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/yacd.git/shortlog/refs/heads/yacd_temp (close to 2.3 with a few modifications and fixes). 15:37:44 <michi_cc> Some NewGRFs aren't on bananas, but the coop pack should have them. 15:38:21 <jazzyjaffa> michi_cc: Nice, thanks. So far I was just using a few AI's, but that doesn't make for good nets. 15:53:20 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AF22.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:57:06 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host83-217-165-40.dsl.vispa.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:57 <ffpp> is there a way to retrieve what newgrfs are used by a savegame ? 16:04:13 <ffpp> never mind ... 16:05:25 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E8CC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:07:38 <planetmaker> :-) 16:12:40 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 16:18:36 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 16:29:54 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I made you some damnest lies (in the chilpp thread) 16:31:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: it's not that simple. some things were backported from trunk 16:33:08 <Rubidium> but anywhere near the magnitude as the rest of the changes? 16:39:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so 16:43:40 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d083e5d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 17:06:38 *** Wuzzy [~Wuzzy@p5483EDE7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:08:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Assertion failed at line 1867 of /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/yacd/src/vehicle.cpp: this->IsGroundVehicle() 17:09:55 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00820e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:09:59 <planetmaker> sounds like something fixed already? 17:10:17 <Eddi|zuHause> quite possibly... 17:11:15 *** Wuzzy [~Wuzzy@p5483EDE7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 17:11:52 *** Wuzzy [~Wuzzy@p5483EDE7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:13:25 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: was that just a guess or do you have any information about that? 17:13:40 <Eddi|zuHause> like the bug report, or the fixing commit 17:13:56 <Eddi|zuHause> or whether this is a trunk bug or a yacd bug 17:15:18 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AF22.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:29 <Eddi|zuHause> note: when this happened, i just rerouted some aircraft from one airport to another 17:15:48 <planetmaker> I seem to recall seeing this assertion. Thus it must have occured before 17:15:59 <planetmaker> But I can't give you a rev which fixed it 17:16:12 <planetmaker> (or actually whether it was in trunk indeed) 17:17:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it definitely doesn't appear in the channel logs 17:19:23 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:20:09 <planetmaker> I also tend to read all bug entries on flyspray ;-) But that has no convenient way to be searched for anything like this 17:21:49 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:22:58 <Eddi|zuHause> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4624 that seems close enough to be relevant 17:24:22 <Eddi|zuHause> r22492 seems easy enough to "backport" then 17:24:24 <planetmaker> indeed 17:26:05 <planetmaker> makes it sadly visible how old yacd already is. 17:28:12 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:30:14 <Eddi|zuHause> similar calculation as chillpp applies here :) 17:32:05 <planetmaker> yeah... 17:33:58 <ffpp> you should have put it into trunk as long as it was still hot :) 17:34:11 <ffpp> but that is probably easier said than done 17:35:10 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:36:00 <planetmaker> would have been easy. 17:36:07 <planetmaker> And slowed down OpenTTD considerably 17:36:18 *** Matulla [~chatzilla@95-89-241-192-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 17:36:54 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.5.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:36:54 <Matulla> Hi question will the area of a town expend as the town growes or will it stay as the beginning 17:37:42 <planetmaker> it will grow, too 17:37:50 <Matulla> Thanks 17:38:14 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host205-58-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:38:23 <Wolf01> evening 17:38:30 <Matulla> isent there a cheed or tool that markes the tiles of the town s 17:41:26 <michi_cc> Simply bringing YACD up to current trunk isn't hard, the parts it's interacting with didn't change much. I just don't see a point without any real improvments, and that's waiting on me having sufficiently long free time. 17:42:36 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:42:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24079 /trunk/src/lang/ (french.txt latvian.txt polish.txt): 17:42:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:42:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by OliTTD 17:42:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 7 changes by Parastais 17:42:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: polish - 1 changes by wojteks86 17:43:20 *** Matulla [~chatzilla@95-89-241-192-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #openttd [] 17:43:25 <Eddi|zuHause> having destinations makes it really easy to do multi-terminal airports :) 17:43:40 <planetmaker> :-) 17:44:38 <ffpp> would have been easy. << had every patch of the pack been reviewed already ? 17:44:53 <Nat_aS> having destinations makes moving passingers worthwhile 17:45:12 <planetmaker> ffpp, yes 17:46:29 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:48:15 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E8CC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:51:05 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:51:13 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-188-102-141-251.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:51:44 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:56:51 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:57:14 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:57:16 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:57:20 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:58:46 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:02:14 <Eddi|zuHause> GermanRV seriously needs to balance length vs. capacity 18:02:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i replaced a tram with a more modern tram with the same capacity. but it's longer, so fewer fit into a station. now my entire network deadlocked 18:02:59 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:04:31 <oskari89> Why there's some places where some vehicles have 100% loaded, but aren't going anywhere, intresting.. 18:04:42 <oskari89> (Has a lan game with his wife here) ): 18:04:43 <oskari89> *:) 18:05:07 <oskari89> Just stuck on that "loading" stage.. 18:05:14 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:05:42 <Alberth> time table? 18:05:50 <oskari89> Whoops. 18:06:24 <oskari89> Shared orders... 18:06:31 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:06:46 <oskari89> How to cancel all timetables from shared orders? 18:07:34 <Alberth> no idea, does the wiki tell ? 18:07:34 <oskari89> Oh, i see... 18:08:43 <oskari89> No problem anymore :P 18:09:25 * Alberth likes people self-solving their problems :p 18:09:53 <Nat_aS> Eddi|zuHause that sounds really bad, most of the time vehicles get more capacity for the same/less length over time. 18:10:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: the problem of GermanRV is that it sticks quite literally to the "realistic" capacity, but the vehicle lengths don't match. 18:11:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: in one instance, two vehicles have the same "realistic" length, but the ingame length is twice 18:11:33 <Nat_aS> that can be a problem with "realistic" sets 18:11:37 <V453000> realism :-D 18:11:51 <Nat_aS> they are rarely balanced, and often important quirks cannot be modeled. 18:12:29 <Nat_aS> This new train is super expensive but statisticly worse than other trans, in real life it's price is justified by some fancy gimic that has no baring on a video game. 18:13:55 <Nat_aS> i kind of noticed that in the North american pack, although you could probably fudge features like "Enviromentaly friendly" as lower operating costs and reduced breakdowns. 18:14:11 <oskari89> Nah, sometimes it's good to have realistic capacities, such as in Finnish Trainset MU:s.. 18:14:44 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, the size / passenger ratio might be "realistic" though :-) 18:14:51 <Nat_aS> MUs? 18:14:53 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: no, it's not 18:15:20 <oskari89> http://users.tt-forums.net/finnish/table/ftselectric.html and http://users.tt-forums.net/finnish/table/ftsdiesel.html 18:15:24 <Nat_aS> I do like gimics like faster loading, steam power units, and mandatory cabooses. 18:16:03 <Nat_aS> but I don't think it's a good idea to base train stats 100% on real life, it's better to make a set where all the trains can be potentially profitable 18:16:19 <oskari89> Some stations in certain cities have extraordinary busy passenger stats, so no problem.. 18:16:39 <Nat_aS> lol yes 18:16:50 <Nat_aS> passinger boom can make anything draw a profit 18:17:12 <Nat_aS> I actualy use the red devil from tropic refurbishment set for inner city passenger service 18:17:23 <Nat_aS> on the same line as Electrics 18:17:25 <Nat_aS> :V 18:17:39 <Nat_aS> and imagine it as a musiem piece. 18:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it's one of the reasons i decided that CETS should not modify capacity over time, and to not base anything on "realistic" capacities, but use pure length/capacity ratio 18:17:52 <Nat_aS> (I think even then it's too expensive) 18:18:27 <Nat_aS> i actualy do think it's fun to have one or two "I dare you to try to find an instance where you can use this" engines. 18:18:34 <Nat_aS> because how cool it is when you do. 18:20:04 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, probably good choice. Realistic capacities make little sense 18:22:18 <Nat_aS> well it make sense for capacity to increse over time 18:22:27 <Nat_aS> but that should mean trains getting shorter. 18:22:30 <Nat_aS> not longer 18:22:40 <Nat_aS> and not by much 18:24:01 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:24:17 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:36:58 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 18:49:18 *** ffpp [~me@dslb-188-097-226-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ffpp] 18:52:31 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:54:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: the only net capacity increase will be the introduction of commuter/metro trains 18:54:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: other than that you have the choice between slow/high capacity and fast/low capacity trains 18:55:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: only speed will increase over time, not capacity 18:55:27 <Eddi|zuHause> (that's of course completely different for freight wagons) 18:55:39 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.100.24] has joined #openttd 19:04:37 *** heffer [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has joined #openttd 19:05:12 <Nat_aS> i was talking about freight waggons 19:05:21 <Nat_aS> passinger trains are limited by type 19:05:43 <Nat_aS> like double decker and metro trains will increase capacity at cost of speed. 19:06:04 <Nat_aS> but normal passinger cars ought to stay the same by lenght 19:06:24 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.76.30] has joined #openttd 19:10:56 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:11:50 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-222.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:16:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: freight wagons are depending mainly on axle weight 19:16:56 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-105-235.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:20:05 <Nat_aS> which does improve over time yes? 19:21:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 19:21:44 <Eddi|zuHause> and that is also roughly oriented along the real capacities 19:23:30 <Eddi|zuHause> man, i have no idea how i can fit another transrapid track onto this map... 19:23:42 <Nat_aS> screenshot? 19:24:37 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:28:39 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%205.%20Nov%201988.png <-- 12MB (earlier version) 19:29:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a transrapid from Wiedhus Airport to Wörnitzkirchen Airport 19:30:00 <Eddi|zuHause> but i need another one from Wiedhus to Loisachkirchen 19:30:14 <Eddi|zuHause> which is kinda diagonal, so placing tunnels is problematic 19:30:22 <Eddi|zuHause> especially with a large enough curve radius 19:30:50 <Nat_aS> Dem boats 19:31:01 <Nat_aS> Dem Islands 19:31:11 <Eddi|zuHause> and bridges are not fast enough 19:31:27 <Nat_aS> Dem multi-platform stations 19:32:57 <Nat_aS> so what part of the map? 19:34:05 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 19:34:28 <Eddi|zuHause> from the left to the center 19:34:44 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:34:48 <Eddi|zuHause> center/right 19:35:21 <frosch123> if you cannot build a diagonal track 19:35:33 <Eddi|zuHause> preferably without lowering any mountain top :) 19:35:35 <frosch123> then build a rectangular connection 19:36:11 <frosch123> it will only take around 1.4 times longer 19:36:21 <Nat_aS> found it 19:36:22 <frosch123> resp. 0.4 19:36:59 <Nat_aS> Hmm, yeah the inproved speed of transrapids would make the ineficency of a rectangular route less of a problem 19:37:15 <Nat_aS> and it could have more stops 19:37:49 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-188-102-141-251.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:32 <Nat_aS> i love the land reclamation airports 19:38:53 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: what grf is supplying those trees? 19:39:23 <Nat_aS> that brick factory in the far upper right, 19:39:27 <Nat_aS> it's so lonely 19:39:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it's called "treesw.grf" which is a modified variant of "stolentreesw.grf" 19:39:41 <Nat_aS> hidden away in a valley, with no connections to anything 19:39:51 <Nat_aS> so third hand trees? 19:40:02 <goodger> ta 19:40:37 <Nat_aS> connect that brick factory to something 19:40:39 <Nat_aS> it's so lonely 19:41:01 <Nat_aS> or what is it? 19:41:06 <Nat_aS> a textile mill? 19:41:11 <Eddi|zuHause> indeed 19:41:13 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:42:46 <Nat_aS> wow the station at Havelkirchen is intresting 19:42:51 <Nat_aS> made me doubletake 19:42:57 <Nat_aS> trains go under it 19:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean? 19:43:56 <Nat_aS> Havelkirchen is not importent enough for the main line to stop at it? 19:44:04 <Nat_aS> there is a tunnel under the station 19:44:49 <Nat_aS> small town outside of Wiedhus 19:46:12 <Nat_aS> it seems the station is only for grain, passinger trains bypass it entirely 19:46:14 <Eddi|zuHause> oh that one you mean. that's an industry station 19:46:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it serves the farm 19:46:38 <Nat_aS> oh that's not even a whole town 19:46:46 <Nat_aS> it's just a suburb of another town 19:46:49 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-76-76.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:47:07 <Nat_aS> dispite being in it's own valley 19:47:19 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196-210-232-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has left #openttd [] 19:55:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but nothing of that answers the question :) 19:57:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AF22.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:59:11 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:14:15 <Nat_aS> how to expand your transrapid? 20:14:31 <Nat_aS> i don't know, you are a tighter network designer than I 20:14:52 <Nat_aS> but this is a nice map 20:15:16 <Nat_aS> hilly enough to be chalanging, but with flat areas so you can actualy build things. 20:15:45 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:16:12 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09ee84.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 20:17:27 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00820e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:56 *** xiong [~xiong@76.218.102.28] has joined #openttd 20:25:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't usually build this tight. but i wanted to have a small map so i could quickly play a full game 20:26:39 <Eddi|zuHause> but because of the sheer amount of passengers, i neglected the industry part 20:28:34 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:28:47 <supermop> hi 20:40:12 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AF22.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:43 *** xiong [~xiong@76.218.102.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:04:51 *** welshdragon [~mark-oftc@welshdragon.zernebok.net] has joined #openttd 21:14:59 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 12.0/20120321033733]] 21:15:36 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:19:29 *** goodger [~ben@94.30.43.248] has quit [] 21:22:40 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.100.24] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:24:32 <Terkhen> good night 21:25:14 <Wolf01> 'night 21:25:19 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host205-58-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:29:14 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 21:31:42 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 21:46:21 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178232013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:54:16 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:01:46 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:05:04 *** Wuzzy [~Wuzzy@p5483EDE7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:13:31 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:10 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-76-76.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:17:21 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 22:34:44 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:35:01 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-222.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:46:22 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.1.105] has joined #openttd 22:54:24 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:55:23 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-151.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 22:56:27 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:10:04 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:19:04 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-250-2-219.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:39:34 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:18 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]